The Durability of the Republican Rebellion

Cancer is loud when it enters our lives We built the Jack and Cheryl Morris Cancer Center, so cancer doesn't get the last word. The Jack and Cheryl Moois Cancer Center, New Jersey's only freesting cancer hospital to Silence Cancer. RWJ Barnabas Health and Rutgers Cancer Institute, the state's only NCI designated comprehensive cancer center RwJbh d. org slash Morris Cancer Center Wcome New York Times I' Mael Babaro. This is The Daily In ways big and small, the Republican controlled Congress has begun rebelling against President Trump as never before, on everything from the war in Iran to his plan to use taxpayer money to pay his allies Today, Congressional editor Julie Davis on whether the uprising is a preview of a new dynamic in Washington or a temporary show of independence that will vanish just as quickly as it arrived It's Monday, june eighth Julie ' Wonderful to see you. Great to see you, Michael Thank for coming on the show. Ireciate Thanks for having me I would say, Julie, I don't think you're going to contest this that from the first moment of Trump's second term. Qestion on K kind of everyone's mind was whether the manner in which the president had consolidated his power had basically rendered this Congress, this Republican Congress irrelevant Right? I mean, it very much looked like a co equal branch of government was choosing subservience very willingly And we started to ask the question is Congress over and The answer over the past ten days or so seemed change And now it feels more like No no, it's not over. Yeah, I mean, I think in the first months of President Trump's second term. We were actually surprised on the hill to see the degree to which Republicans were just deferring to him on everything just refusing to challenge him on things, but actively kind of giving back their power on some pretty key things on spending Treed and tariffs on foreign policy, things that you typically see Congress jealously guarding as its own prerogatives findinding every possible way to give it over to the White House and really even just avoiding voting on things altogether Right It was literally like a kid in the playground saying, takeake this toy, take this toy, take this shovel, take this truck Right That was really all we were seeing from Republicans when it came to President Trump. But And the last few weeks, we have seen some pretty rare and unusual resistance coming from Republicans They're refusing to act on legislation that's a big priority for him refusing to move on the timelines that he' set out for them They're stripping things from legislation and forcing the administration to drop proposals that they don't like And in the case of the war in Iran, they're actually using their power to push back on President Trump. They're basically Rebelling They're rebelling o back to your playground metaphor, Michael. It's a little bit like a group of kids who have obeyed their daddy for many, many months on pretty much everything and are finally just saying, no daddy, we're not going to do this for you Mhm. That's quite a vivid completion of the metaphor. So take us behind the scenes of this. rebellion. if that's what we're going to be calling it and we'll get to how durable it is and how far it may or may not go. But let's just understand it to the extent that it has been unfolding On the surface, a lot of it seem to revolve around the weaponization fund. The presresident's nearly two billion dollars effort to compensate people he claims are victims of overzealous government prosecution. But my sense is that That's not quite the full story Yeah, it actually started long before the Trump administration announced that they were creating That fund This has been pergolating for many weeks And it's really, I think a matter of Republicans sort of slowly and then very quickly waking up to the reality that a lot of what President Trump is doing is actually counter to their own political interests Let's remember that we are just months away from the midterm elections. and Trump is intervening in Republican primaries Against some pretty popular members of their caucus who are incumbents, who are fighting for their political lives, he intervenes in Louisiana endorses a Republican congresswoman who's running against Bill Cassidy The senator who's the head of the health commommittee who has spent years in trying to ingratiate himself with Trump after having voted to convict him at his impeachment trial after january sixth ultimately decided he wanted to take him out. And did. And he did, and he did. But the second Senate primary where President Trump intervened, and I think the more stinging one that made Republicans a lot angrier was in Texas where Senator John Corn had been facing a challenge from Ken Paxon, the attorney generenal They're in a runoff. It was going to be a competitive one. President Trump had stayed neutral and days before The primary, he weighs in and endorses Ken Paxton. and that news that the president was going to do that just hit Republicans on the hill like a bomb. They were completely irate. in part because Cornin was seen as the much stronger candidate who would be able to win that seat without having to spend a lot of money, without having to really worry about it because there are obviously a lot of other seats that they need to be worrying about defending in the midterm year. So that just soured the mood among Republicans who are sort of looking around seeeeing that President Trump's agenda is getting less and less popular with voters, seeing that he's doing things really they feel like are for himself and not for the good of the party. You know, Republicans are fighting to hold on to majorities in both chambers and they have an upheill battle. And there started to be a real feeling like he was making it harder for them. And I should say that both of these senators are very popular with their Republican colleagues. They're seen as effective. They're seen as experienced and they know how to do their jobs And the very same day that Trump came out and endorsed Paxton against Cornyn, in the weekly party lunch Bill Cassidy, returning for the first time since being defeated In his primary got a standing ovation from Republicans. It was kind of like a moment where they sort of were saying, you're our guy, even if you're not President Trump's Clearly, what's starting to dawn on these Republicans is that Trump is making the midterermms about him making it about revenge. Not at all what's best for party trying to keep control of Congress On top of all this, what Trump is clearly doing in the eyes of these Republicans is rewarding The subservience. I mean, Corn votes with Trump ninety something percent of the time. sameame with Cassidy rewarding that was them being punished and forced out of office. So why should they keep being subservient starts to basically be the question Right. That is the question. And this is the context in which The administration announces without any advanance word to any Republican on Capitol Hill, that they will be forming this anti weaponization fund of one point seven seven six billion dollars to the administration says compensate people who have been victimized by the federal government, a clear implication that this is for People loyal to President Trump, including potentially The mob that stormed the Capitol on january sixth who he feels have been wronged by the government and unfairly targeted. and so he would like to use federal money to pay these people. And this just sort of in the context of all of this tension that Republicans are feeling toward the president and how he's making his decisions, just hits them like a ton of bricks My first reaction was this doesn't pass the smell test. This might be one area where you might find a lot of bipartisan questioning of whether or not this is a good idea. This is another instance of him going around Congress to use money in the way that he's seized it There are a lot of questions that the administration is going to have to answer These people don't deserve restitution. Many of them deserve to be in prison. I mean, this is just stupid on stilts And let's not forget Republicans worked to acquit him at his impeachment trial. They have been loyal to him for years since january sixth, but they were all in the Capitol on january sixth when people assaulted the building and they were all running for their lives. So they're all it's sort of dawning on them Both personally and frankly, politically, they're going to have to defend this. in front of voters at a time when they are many of them are running for reelection, this is really not a good look and this is not something that they want to have to stand behind. It's as if somebody sued themselves agreed upon a settlement with themselves, And that's going to be funded by the rest of us I can tell you, the voter doesn't like that Or if they like it, maybe they're in on it. And this is not just an academic exercise for them because what they also realize is that President Trump has set them one of his famous deadlines, a june first deadline, for them to deliver him the huge seventy billion dollars immigration enforcement bill that he's been asking for for months And they are trying to move on to that bill and they start to realize because they have so many concerns about this fund And there's so much sentiment among Republicans to try to do something to shut this idea down that they're probably not going to be able to get the votes to move forward with the immigration bill. unless they do something to either get President Trump to reverse himself on the fund or actually affirmatively write some legislation to block him from doing it So at the same time that the president is putting forth this toxic idea of a weaponization fund that might give money to January six rioters saying to these Senate Republicans pass this gargantuan spending bill I want even though I'm putting you in a tough position all around Right. And Republicans initially are trying to figure out if there's a way they can do this. Todd Blanche, the acting attorney general comes to the hill to try to Asuage, there are concerns about the fund. He meets with them behind closed doors. What do you want to hear from Todd Blanch? About the payout p for pumps? Not a lot.. And it is just a complete blow up. It's one of the roughest meetings I've seen in my entire time in the Senate Fiery does not begin to cut it very quickly becomes clear that this is a complete nonstarter for Republicans. They call off their vote. on this bill. They leave for Memorial Day weeekend and say the way things stand now, we just we can't move forward and calling off a vote Sounds to the lay ear, like a subtle of recalcitrants But In the moment, it felt very much like a dececlaration of indndependence. We are canceling a vote to put seventy billion dollars into immigration enforcement for the president, his signature agenda Right. And remember that when the president sets them a deadline or asks them to do something, in the past, Republicans have always just snapped right to and done it. So the fact that they're willing and really feel like they have to go home and not do this It does feel like a real pivot point. We have not seen them push back on the president or his legislative agenda in this way before. So any questions And a couple hours later, in the Oval Office, President Trump is making an appearance and reporters actually ask him like, are you losing control of the Senate, Senate Republic? Are you losing your hold on the Senate I don't know. I really don't know. I can tell you, I only do what's right And Trump says, well, I'm not really sure, I don't know. But all around him, there is mounting evidence that He is really not keeping Republicans in line on a variety of his priorities. It's right around this time that Republicans decide to drop the billion dollars that they had put in their bill for his ballroom project We all know how much he cherishes that project. He talks about it all the time. whileile Republicans wish that he would talk about the economy. He's always talking about the ballroom project. Right. They drop that. It's a not so subtle brush off to him. Right. They basically say, despite your desire that we slip it quietly into a bill, we're actually going to take it out Right. They don't wantan to have to defend it. They don't want to have to vote for it. And they really are not letting up on this payout fund. They make it very clear that this thing has to die if they're going to be able to move forward with the immigration bill It's sort of by coincidence around this moment, as I recall that a court rules that the White House do anything comes to this weaponization fund which kind of assists these congressional Republicans in their opposition. Right? It gives them a bit of support for their position that The administration just has to abandon this. Although the court order is only temporary. So it also strengthens their resolve to really be like something needs to be done about this to Once and for all, get it off the table. And in fact, within a couple of days, the administration does back down on the fund. The Justice Department puts out word that they're not going to challenge this court ruling. And in this case, it was especially notable because even after the White House said they were going to abide by this court order, which they clearly did not agree with Republicans went a step further and said, we don't trust you. We don't trust the word of the White House. We don't trust the Justice Department saying they're going abide by this. We want an on the record disavowal of this thing and to be assured it will never return. And that is just not something we have seen Republicans do they, you know have been very deferential and given President Trump a lot of latitude and a lot of benefit of the doubt. and that benefit of the doubt is just gone at this point And then Ty Blanche goes back to Capitol Hill and testifies under oath that we are not moving forward with this fund, period Right. I think it's fair to say If you're evaluating the strength of this Republican rebellion at its peak over the past couple of weeks This is the high watermark of it. when congressional Republicans using the leverage they have over something that the president wants, which is his money for the immigration crackdown kill off this weaponization fund Right. This is Republicans doing what Democrats have been saying for more than a year, they needed to do, which is use their power, use their leverage to push back on the president at a moment of, you know pretty potent anger among Republicans about some of the things the president has done And of course, that anger and this rebellion we're talking about doesn't end with the weaponization fund because another big target emerges around this same time, and that is the president's war in Iran And we'll talk about that rightight after the break Yaoi Kusama, Andy Warhol, Maurizio Catalon and more This summer experience Guggenheim Pop, nineteen sixty to now. a vibrant look at the pop art movement and how artists are engaging with its legacy today featuring major works from the museum's collection by Jim Dyne, Roy Lieichtenstein, and Klaus Oldenberg. alongside contemporary artists from around the world. This exhibition at the Guggenheim, New York reveals how pop continues to shape what art can be. Learn more and get tickets at Guggenheim. org FX is The Bear, the Emmy Award winning series returns for its final season. With no money, the threat of a sale, and a torrential storm in their way, the team bands together to achieve one last service. Can they finally earn that coveted Michelin star? FX is The Bear, the final season, all episodes now streaming on Hulu Are you now, or have you ever been? The most urgent question of our times is this summer's must see theatrical event. This electrifying drama recounts the voices of a generation who faced a vengeful government and a nation on edge. Using only their on the record statements as played by a rotating all star cast, their words will reach us when we need them most. Are you now, or have you ever been Get tickets now So Julie, explain how this Republican in Congress that we most vividly saw against the weaponization Fund starts to play out with a warner on So for months now since President Trump started bombing Iran in late February Democrats have been forcing these war powers votes House and Senate floors, which are essentially resolutions that say the president has to come to Congress for authorization if he wants to continue the war. And they're important, not so much because anyone really thinks that they're going to be enacted into law. Obviously, President Trump has said these are unconstitutional. He'd veto any resolution like this that ever reached his desk Democrats and some Republicans who are growing increasingly uneasy with how this is dragging on, see it as a way of really registering Congresses skepticism about this and really trying to reassert a congressional role in matters of war, which again, is one of these things that Republicans have for months just cated to the president and not attempted to involve themselves in. And every time one of these comes up, the Republican leadership argues This is going to tie the president's hands. This is going to undermine his ability to negotiate We can't be doing this right now. Congress just needs to step back So Republicans keep voting against it with a few defections, but not enough to actually let this pass until This sort of rebellion starts to bubble up within the party about a range of issues And all of a sudden, a few days after Bill Cassidy loses his primary, there's yet another W powers vote in the Senate We are following some breaking news in Washington where the U. S. Senate And guess who switches his vote and votes with Democrats to insist that Trump come to Congress for authorization. Mister Cassidy, mister Cassidy, I. Bill Cassidy I actually support the goals that the President initially laid out And then it wass going be two weeks. Its obviously going longer in two weeks. So just Tell the Aican people, that's where Iing And that is enough to put the resolution over the top and The Senate now has to take it up and has to eventually vote on it So it's just another indication that dissent is growing about this conflict that a lot of Democrats and certainly many Republicans see as a political liability for them And they don't feel like the White House or the president has leveled with them on what the goals are, what the end game is And all of a sudden, some of these reservations, which we've heard Republicans kind of allude to gently for many months are manifesting themselves in a vote. which is a pretty remarkable moment And then before too long, members will recording v us by electronic device. Mmbers, this is a five minute boot. A Warpowers resolution comes up in the House, which is a much more conservative body where the leaders have a much tighter rein on their people But still the Ys are two hundred and fifteen and the Yays are two hundred and eight The concurnt resolution is adopted Enough Republicans defect and join Democrats to pass the resolution. Congress alone declares war. That's something that we have to be, you know, certainly protective of. and essentially say Trump has to withdraw forces or come to Congress for authorization. We have to follow the law. There's a law the books, the W Powers Act of ' seventy three, so you can't violate the law. That's not an option And the key crosssover votes came from Republicans who are in competitive districts. There are a variety of considerations that we have to take into account, but I definitely feel what people are experiencing back home. You know, I go back home to my district every single week. You know, I fill up my gas tank too. I have four kids' taking. They're concerned about the war. It's gone on too long, It's costing too much. They want to see an end game Interesting. So swing district. publicans a crossing over voting with Democrats to register their disapproval of the war because they worry that the war, the resulting high gas prices are going to cost them reelection. This goes back to what you were saying earlier that at the heart of this Republican rebellion is this very strong sense that the president is not looking out for the best interests of the Republican Party Right. This is a president who has said in recent weeks that he doesn't care about The financial impact on Americans when he's thinking about the war, he doesn't care about the midterms. And Republicans are starting to look around and say, like, well, where does that leave us And by this point, we're starting to see some interesting coalitions form here to really be the spine of this pushback against Trump. You have Swing district Republicans like Senator Susan Collins was among the senators who voted for the warar Powers resolution in the Senate. Brian Fitzpatrick, Tom Barrett of Michigan We the ones in the house. Purple state lawmakers. Right But you also have this other faction, we're starting to get the nickname of the YOLo caaucus that have been targeted by the president. They've been ousted in our lame ducks and They don't have a reason anymore to be unbeendingly loyal to Donald Trump Bill Cassidy already lost his reelection John Corn lost his re eactlection. Tom Masssey was another Republican who voted for the War Powers Act in the House. lost his primary to a Trump back challenger just a few weeks ago. So They're sort of conspiring with these people who have everything to lose politically. They have nothing to lose politically The result is the same that they are willing to push back on a president who is not used to being resisted Right And of course, the thing to note about the so called YolLo coalition is They might not have anything left to lose, but they're not going to be in their jobs much longer. They can fight the president until their term is up at the end of the year. and then inevitably they're being replaced by people who are very loyal to the president potentially someone like Ken Paxson if he wins the general election. and therefore, the threat that they pose to the president is inherently temporary, we're saying Absolutely. And it's not clear how far any of them are willing to go with this, right? We saw Senator Cassidy vote for the War Powers Act We didn't see John Corn cross party lines on that. He's a very loyal Republican and we have yet to see him really manifest his you know, grievance if he feels any toward the president in a vote But the fact remains that their political incentive to do whatever the president wants them to do has vastly diminished Well, I think Julie, that gets at the ultimate question that we have to ask here, which is How durable and potent Is this resistance likely to be in the long term Obviously a unique set of circumstances played out here all at once where the president ousted popular members of the Republican Party from their jobs, that made folks really angry. thenen he dropped this idea of the weaponization fund into everyone's laps. That made them angry. That doesn't happen every day And how likely are these Congressional Republicans over time to snap back into this more subservient role. that Trump has conditioned them take. Right. It's a great question. It's the question to ask. And it's instructive to look at what happened Thursday and Friday, where Republicans finally were able to pass their immigration bill and What we see is that given the opportunity by Democrats to go a step further and actually put it in writing in law that there can never be President Trump's compensation fund for his political allies Republicans figure out a way to block that to vote for that. And that allows them to keep this immigration bill, this top priority of President Trump on track evenven as they're handing him this big victory There were all these signs still of how Republicans were sort of partarting ways with and finding ways to distance themselves from Trump. Before the immigration bill passed, there was this long series of votes overnight and into Friday morning, they call it a voteorama where there were a series of amendments offered to the bill And there were some Republican votes for those proposals, including several votes on the fund and a proposal to say that Trump could never use any federal money for his ballroom The same was true on a Democratic proposal to try to block him from naming Bill Palty, the housing director as the director of National intntelligence, another thing that had really enraged a lot of Republicans None of these things ultimately were able to succeed and be added to the bill, but the fact that Republicans were willing to vote the way they did showed that there is at least some mood in their ranks, which hasn't really existed before, to resist what the president is demanding of them. Right. And I think that's kind of where we're seeing them land. They're not going to be willing to derail their own party's agenda in the service of defying Trump, right? They still want to keep their immmigration bill and their message to voters on track Because in the end, what this really is about is them trying to do what they think is best for themselves and the party And their agendas overlap with his in many ways, in most ways where there is some daylight And the president keeps on creating this daylight Closer and closer we get to November They're going to push back and rebel And that marks a new chapter in the story of this president and the Republican Congress Julie Thank you very much as always, appreciate your time Thank you, Michael. sameame here. In an interview on Sunday with NBC's Meet the Press, President Trump acknowledged the bipartisan opposition that killed his so called weaponization fund. It's been blocked by the courts met with opposition from Republicans and Democrats and Congress and Democrats Ecuse me. Mostly Democrats. M Democrats and some Republicans. Very very Republic. Just. But said he still supported the idea in theory I sluck It was up to me. I'd pay them the kind of money that they deserve. People have been destroyed. Lives have been destroyed. During the interview, Trump also sought to downplay the war in Iran and the growing doubts that surround it a military exercise because people would rather have it called that. It's not a big war for us. It's not the most powerful. The latest version of the War Powers resolution against the war already passed in the House Now heads to the Senate Under cononggressional rules, the Senate must either pass or reject the resolution in the next few weeks.