The Impact of YouTube on Hollywood

This podcast is supported by the Met Now on view. Costume art explores the body across time and space. pairing fashion with artworks from across the Met collollection, it reveals the inherent relationship between clothing and the body Don't miss your chance to see the exhibition behind the Metgala Plan your visit and get tickets at metetmuseum. org From the New York Times, this is the Interview. I'm Lilu Garcia Nvarro At forty four, Seth Rogan seems to be having the opposite of a midlife crisis His series, the studio, which he created, writes, stars in, directs, and produces, just won thirteen Emmys and is currently filming its second season He also stars in and produces the very funny Apple TV plus show Platonic with Rose Byrne His production company, Point Greay Pictures, has been banging out the hits like the dark superhero series The Boys, and his new movie, The Invite, directed by Olivia Wilde, has been generating a lot of buzz. So I wanted to talk to Rogan about how he went from acting in the quickly cancellled TV show Freaks and Geeks as a teenager to writing slacker movies like Super Bad, to having one of the most prolific, wide ranging and successful careers in Hollywood. Here's my conversation with Seth Rogan Seth Rogan, thank you for being on the interview. Thank you for having me You were recently just in Can Which you go too often? I've never been a. What? No, never. That was my first time. I just assumed I actually didn't know one way or the other. No I'd never Wh. I don't generally make the kind of films that go to film festivals and have that type of attention or focus in any way. And so no, I'd never made anything that was at Cann before. Yeah It's funny because You know, we very luckily have had very like Id say we like my me and my group, I guess, the Royal We, I'm Canadian close enough. But you know, we've had very long lovely careers where up until very recently, we didn't really do any of this stuff festivals, awards, things like that. And I think honestly in our heads we really I kind of assumed it was just that was not what our careers held. and we were really at peace with that. And so now that I am starting to get to go to festivals like can and see it, it is funny that there's like this entire other side of the industry that has sort of just been withheld from from me for the last twenty years. And and and I never really I never thought about it that much because I always just thought like,, that's like that's for those types of movies and I don't really make those types of movies, but now it is amazing like the level of industry and infrastructure and sort of pomp and circumstance that I had nothing to do with all these years. It Just felt like a lot of parties I I was never invited to until now. So yeah, it was really exciting, you know I find it very comforting that there's a velvet rope that you were not allowed to go by. There's plenty more. Trust me. Even now that I'm here, there's many more velvet ropes that I' not invited to bec beyond. I have this theory that there's always another room that youre just don't get into. I remember as a kid hearing Like I can't remember who was saying it was Jud or Gary Stanley, one of these old earer comedians I was hanging out with, he was like, you work your way up through Hollywood and eventually you were led into a room alone with Jack Nicholson. And that's like that's the end of the line. like it's just you and him in a small room together and that's when you're like, I did it So you do have another film which is the invite and you play Joe Joe is an angry person whose long term marriage to Angela played by Olivia Wilde, who also directs the movie is not in a good place I saw this recent interview where Olivia Wilde said you were both non confrontational people, but in this role you accessed and this is a quote, your deep rage. And I want to understand what Seth Rogan's deep rage is. Tell me what she meant. I mean, I don't know if I'm glad she thought it that way if that was helpful for the film. you know, I think yeah You know, I think You know, as we were rehearsing and working on the script leading up to shooting, it just seemed like the more like palpably uncomfortable ple was, the more uncomfortable the audience would be, the more uncomfortable this other couple would be entering this environment. And I just been out with couples where you just see like they don't like each other. and it's really unpleasant to be around and there is this like simmering undercurrent of anger and in every moment where you would choose to forgive or excuse a person that you actually cared deeply about, like these people choose not to forgive and excuse their partner and they choose to make a big deal out of it or to use it as an opportunity to make a dig at their partner or say something hurtful or feel superior or something like that. And those are people I've been I mean and continue to be around in my life. and and I've always found it incredibly unpleasant. And to me that Resentment was something that I thought would be very you know, like additive to the film and would create like a tone and an environment that that serve the It did make me wonder what causes you to feel deep rage? or are you this person that does not feel that? No, I get really angry sometimes And it's mostly I think it's evolved over the years, what makes me angry like You know, I used to really get angry about I mean like for lack of a better expression, what I would say like people fucking with my shit. Like like when I was doing like a creative endeavor and I felt like the powers that be were just messing it up for no good reason and were were obstructing me from expressing what I wanted to express and what I felt would would create a great the product ultimately and they were interrupting that process or again, just complicating it or making it needlessly painful. And that was the thing that used to really enrage me. more privately, you know, but at times, you know, I bet people I've worked with over the years would say that I I'm not always one hundred percent pleasant hundred percent of the time when it comes to those types of situations, you know But honestly over the years, I've seen that we very rarely lose those arguments and we almost always get to do what we want creatively and there's a number of instances I could probably count on one hand where we've actually like ve been forced to do a thing that we really don't want to do creatively. and I think over time, I realized it's like not worth getting that angry about that stuff anymore because it just the it rarely manifests into a thing that I actually don't like. It's more the fear of it would enrage me, you know. But now I think as I've gotten older, it's more like It's more it's much more directed inwards. It's much more I get mad at myself and I get disappointed in myself or I will do a thing that I don't feel like I did as well as I could or I will feel like I'm spinning out over something or ruminating on something or fixating on a thing and then I'll get mad at myself for removing my sel from the day to day present experience I should be having because I'm somewhere else fixated on some dumb thing, you know what I mean? That is usually my own doing. somethingomet that I felt like I didn't do well enough, something that I'd said that Id wish I hadn't said or something like that That is much more where my anger lies these days is like at my own at my own behavior and at my own yeah, at myself, which is probably not healthy, but that's, you know, I'm doing my best over here. I go to therapy. Can you give me an example of a moment where something got intervened in that you felt did a disservice to your vision It's been a long time, honestly. L and we've the whole reason we became producers and made a production company, which was like ten years ago at this point, I think maybe more was to like insulate ourselves and really try to protect ourselves from that happening, you know? And Do think good work cannot come from by committee? Is that like? No, I have a very strong committee. and I have a partner specifically. like I am amazed that good work comes from any singular person, you know I need sounding boards, you know? and You know, I I'm filming the studio right now, so I'm very like in it. But like I just see that like the team we have on set, our cinematographer, our editor, Our writers the production designer, the costume people, the camera operator like these people make the show better. I think at the end of the day and I say this all the time, the hardest part about being a director for me is when is when you are the only one who thinks a certain thing. And when everyone's looking at you like you're crazy and you have to be like, No, this is what we're doing because ultimately like I'm the one who has to live with this at the end of the day. And if I don't do the thing that I really think is right, even though everyone's looking at me like, I don't think this is right. And ninety nine percent of the time, the committee' in league and then one percent of the time me and my partner are standing there and everyone's looking at us like we're crazy and we're like This is what we have to do and To me, like the thing I hate the most is When I make a thing And it isn't quite what everyone hoped and someone who was there is like, you know, I kind of maybe thought that maybe this wasn't going to work. And that's when I'm like, say something. Like, you were right. Say something, not like I wish you had said that because you would have made me see something that I wasn't seeing and if you had said that, then this would actually more reflect what I want to be putting out in the world, not less reflect that. you know what I mean? And so that is something I like just recognized over the years like' really valuable like to me personally, you know You know what fills me with rage someone coming in and saying, I told you so. Yeah. I don't like that either. Funnily enough. Just to return to the movie briefly, the movie's funny, tender. veryer dramatic As a long term married person., it brought up a lot of familiar themes. I was saying to my producer also called Seth, by the way. Yeah that the open I have to fight him now. Yeah. We were saying there has to be a cage Highlander, ye. Every time I meet one That opening scene where you and Olivia are fighting bitterly over the dinner party. She is throwing for the neighbors. She'd forgotten to tell your character about it. I' had that very same argument that week Wow with my husband. There you go. Yeah Were there things in the movie that hit home for you. Obviously, you've been with your partner, Lauren Miller for a long time What did it bring up for you and also your fellow actors as you were portraying this very complicated emotional dynamic I mean we rehearsed the movie for a little while going into it and the movie was compleomtely rewritten, I would say, in like the weeks leading up to shooting. Huge ideas that are in the movie were not there at all we were when we started the rehearsal and So the movie actually changed a lot as we were leading into filming. I mean that's not uncommon And What's funny with a movie like this and you're rehearsing and the actors are there and the writers are there and you're talking about relationships. and at some point, you kind of have to Dfine what acccording to this film at least is a good relationship and what is a bad relationship, you know? And people really bring their own personal stuff into those definitions, you know what I mean? And what you very quickly see is that, oh, like what I view as a bad relationship is not what these people necessarily view as a bad relationship or maybe she agrees with me, but maybe they have a very this person does not agree with me and they view what I would view as completely unacceptable to to be normal in a relationship and things like that. as we were rehearsing and writing like I remember feeling like I could really confidently speak about what a very good relationship was like and one that had been good for a very long time. Un afraid I mean, I think it's a couple who is nice to each other who loves each other and who goes out of their way to excuse the other person rather than to find things that they hate about the other person, not blaming it like But to me it comes down to like caring, you know, like and like a tenderness and a niceness that is born out of a desire to do that for the other person, which I think is also very important is like you have to want love your partner and you have to want them to love you back, you know? And I think you have to be intimate with your partner and se sexually attracted to your partner. And I think and that should be returned as well. And I think and the movie really gets into that. And so very quickly me and the other cast members and the writers found ourselves having What maybe we didn't teend to be incredibly revealing conversations, but what ultimately you couldn't you couldn't hide we're incredibly revealing conversations because ultimately you're arguing, oh, I think this is this is healthy or this is unhealthy, you know. Are you just are you saying you know you now know more about Penelope Cruz' marriage? Y Eactly Exactly I do know have Bardam had back problems that were similar to my characters. whichich was a funny, you know, again, much more than I needed to know about him necessarily. And she does think it had to do with stress and emotion more so than a physical ailment. And so Yeah, so all that stuff kind of comes out So Estara Perrell, the relationship psychotherapist and best selling author, was a consultant on the film Was she mediating something? I mean, were you guys having group therapy? No I mean honestly, from my experience, we just talked about her a lot. L And I think there was a point where like we were kind of dancing around just like using her philosophies in the film. And honestly, I think maybe maybe that made them go to her and be like, well, you be a consultant on the film because I think there was some fear at first of like, are we overlapping? And I remember being like, just embrace it. L like we are saying what she says. That is the point of this. We agree with it. We all agree with it. What is the it? The it is this I think to me, it's this very simple idea of that you have many relationships throughout your life as you change and you age and your perspective changes and sometimes your partner changes with you and you have several relationships with the same person that have new parameters and new boundaries and new guidelines that are reflective of who you are as you become different people And sometimes you become incompatible with that person and you start a relationship with a new person. And it just really rang true. and it's something I've seen in couples that I know. and something I've seen in my own relationships. Like you know me and my wife started dating when we were like twenty three years old or something like that, you know? so We're obviously very different people than we were in our early twenties. Now they're in our mid forties. But we grew in a way that we stayed very compatible with one another. You know, And I've seen other couples not have that happen, you know I'm glad you brought us up because I have a theory about your relationship. Great. Well, I saw you talk about your wife on Howard Stern And he told several anecdotes that basically boil down to I was on drugs and my wife encouraged me to go on live television getet on stage with Madonna. Do something potentially publicly risky, but very fun. loved that Yeah becausecause this is clearly someone that is sort of the opposite of trying to shut you down or, you know circumscribe you. She wants you to be full seh. She does. Yes. And at times we'll also tell me maybe it's too much sef I'd say in a very good way And it's honesty, like when we were making the neighbors' movies, that was like A lot of the dynamic between me and Rose Byrne came from conversations with me and Lauren, where it was like we She's not like the naggy woman who's trying to shut down the fun. Like she's she me and her love doing the same stuff and and and if anything, yeah, she's like encouraging it, you know, And so The Weave always, I think in a great way, like fundamentally been on the same page as one another and like to do the same actual things with our day as one another, which I think It's also just a thing that like you see is like, oh, this couple like just doesn't want to spend their day doing the same thing anymore. And then they used to and now they don't. And now like she wants to do this and he wants to do this. and they might still care about each other, but it's just like they want to do all day is completely different, you know And we like doing the same things, which is also good, I think. What do you wish she'd stopped you from doing U. Nothing written now. If anything, she has successfully stopped me from doing things I shouldn't have done, which is good. She has a very good track record with that So you often play with thwarted desire in your projects. Dude wants a hot girl, isn't in her league. And that frustration is often sort of comedic and played for comedic effect Could you give me your theory of what makes desire funny? I mean, to me, it's more just like When a character is getting in the their own way of what they want is the funniest thing for a character to do. And when a character fundamentally has a personality that does not allow them to easily achieve what it is that they want and they are their own worst enemy. and they they are doing things that are making their own situation harder and worse. Um to me is the funniest thing. And I think it does come from something I relate to deeply, which is like the thing that makes you the happiest also is the most painful thing in your life at times, you know? And I think like Larry Sandersh is the thing that me and Ev and my partner like reference a lot, you know? and I think that is like fundamentally incredibly great comedic character in that like He's constantly trying to be someone he isn't. He's constantly trying to be cool to the employees that he works for or works with, but he just is too wound up and to allow it to happen. And he wants to think he can he can date a woman who's more famous than he is, but he just can't And he wants to think he can allow his sidekick to be funny, but he just his ego won't allow it. And so it's sort of this like conflict between like what the worst parts of your ego make you do versus what you're purist desires like want you to do, you know Okay This is kind of a little bit of a silly question, but it is something that I've always been curious about In a lot of your films, there isn't some big pretty woman moment though for the dude. When you get a makeover and you're suddenly like pumped up, you always end up getting the girl, but you don't get the glow up There isn't like this big moment where all of a sudden, you know, you're kind of rip off your shirt and there you are. You know, I was thinking like Long Shot with Charlie Theron and all these things. Is being funnier sexier than being hot I mean, so. But no. The answer is no. Be hot is better It can help. But you think about the characters I' not personaliz. It's funny, like when we were making movies when I was younger, the joke I was always making as we were making them is like, oh, like my guy's going from wearing like a t shirt to a polo shirt, like that was always like the arc. L, Oh, he got a but he got a button up shirt. like, wow And even then I could recognize kind of like the silliness of that and how superficial it all was, you know, So I think more so as we got older and we were You know, making more of these types of movies like that more became, I think the idea is like it shouldn't be some like superficial thing You know, a movie like Long Shot, it should be like fundamental character things that are evolving and changing and they're influencing one another in a way that isn't just how they look and dress, but it is more like as people, they are enriching one another, you know what I mean And so yeah, I think that's kind of more where that type of thing came from, but Tuthull, I don't make that many like Iven' made a romantic thing in Quite a long time.. It's true. Yeah. Yeah, it' I think because I'm in a very good relationship and have been in for a long time, it's like not that creatively interesting to me to like show two people falling in love with one another. L it's not where my brain goes, you know And I think also When we were first coming up, especially, it was like every movie had a romantic storyline or like conflict between the main couple that had to be resolved in some way and I think that also just And I remember we were making Pineapple Express like we sort of have like a really silly, ridiculous storyline with me and like the woman, you know character. and it's like not even remotely a romantic storyline. It's sort of like this disastrous thing, you know, And I remember at the time, everyone's like, it has to be romantic. L that's what a movie has. And we were like No, like that that's not care that much about that and knocked up like I think it was like all about that and L shot was like It was like a romantic comedy, you know? But I think yeah, to me it was it was either more interesting to like fully explore this dynamic or not explore it at all and not have it be like an obligatory part of our things. And it's why I honestly, as we're making the studio now, it's like, There's like no romantic storylines on the show. not really. like A little a little a little kind of, but like not. I mean, you're dating life is a part of theedics.. It's in one episode and is like and the whole joke is that I can't date. you know what I mean? And so other than that, it's not like a thing we're tracking is like Mat's Mat's dating life. Like it's sort of like a'm non There's sort of like an asexuality to the show in a weird way, which to me is fine. That's interesting. It is You got to work with one of the greats, Catherine O'Hara in the studio How did you experience that loss? Did you have any particular memories of working with her, any good Katherine O'Hara stories Oh, I mean, so many like when we First conceived of the show like She was the one that we wanted on it more than anybody, like and To me and Evan, she was like a go to us, especially as Canadians like, I mean, I'm not joking like Homealone is the movie that made me want to make movies and like and her being in it and And then as we got older, we just became obsessed with like Christopher Gess films and waiting for Guffman and things like that. And Beetlejuice was one of my favorite movies ever growing up. So To us, she was just like as funny as as a person could be, you know? and then I mean, getting to work with her on the first season like It really like pushed us to want to do right by her and to want to make the show live up to her standards and what we felt she deserved. And she plays your sort of mentor in this. Yeah. And she plays my mentor and kind of a maternal figure to me, which she sort of was at times as we were making the show and would send us notes on the scenes, would completely rewrite the scenes. say in like the most Canadian way ever, she would send me an emant email being like, here's some thoughts. and then would be a completely rewritten version of the scene and it would be like, take it or leave it. It was like such a funny Canadian way of being like, this is better. You should do this, but I never said with those words, you know And then it was just incredibly sad. We just started to hear she was sick and we'd see her and we heard she wasn't doing well. as we were nearing the second season You know, it was we would just talk to her and it was she would Cl health was not great, but she really wanted to come back and intended to come back and And I think it was a real like goal for her to come back and keep doing the show. And I think she was really looking forward to coming back and doing the show. Um, And honestly in the back of our heads, we were like We hope she can, but we don't know if she will be able to. And so it is this kind of It's very sad thing. We're like Creatively, you're kind of making back of your head, these contingency plans, but you kind of don't want to think about it, but your brain is kind of tellelling you one thing and you're trying not to believe it in some ways, you know Yeah, and then we heard she passed away one morning the first week of shooting show and it was reallyally, really sad and And we were all together, the whole crew and everyone loved her very much and the cast and K of didn't know what to do and And we just kept shooting and we were like The idea of like making each other laugh and being together prereferable to anything else we could have done that day, you know I'm sorry So u I want to Go back a little bit to your upbringing. You grew up in Vancouver. I sure did. You started in comedy really young. You started playing stand up in clubs at thirteen. And your mom was really encouraging Uhuh She would let you stay out. Stay up all night, working on your routines It's pretty unusual for a parent, W there ever moments of tension with her about it that you wanted to do things that she wasn't letting you or she just letting you kind of Oen that door and walk through it. I mean, she was there all the time. So it wasn't that, it wasn't like unsupervised freedom, you know what I mean? Like, so at once It't It's funny, like freedom is not the word I would use to describe it. It was more Like she was just very supportive of a goal I had. It didn't feel like my mom was just like taking me to comedy clubs to hang out. like I was there to do something, you know? and u And the comedians were old and I didn't like hanging out with them that much honestly. L it was f to hang with them, but I wasn't like I wouldn' be friends with these guys. Like was was I was a teener. Like I had teenager friends, you know what I mean? Like And every time I did hang out with them socially, it was weird. And so that wasn't the goal either. Like it wasn't like I wanted to hang out with these old guys and get drunk or anything like that. Like it more felt like I was really like ravenously pursuing a thing and my parents recognized like I was unique in a way that I was like pursuing this thing in a very serious way, you know? You U use the word ravenously. That's such an interesting word that how it felt Yeah, I think For sure, one of the reasons that I I think, especially from a young age, like manageed to work a lot was because I Yeahah, had like like a real hunger for it and was willing to really put in a huge amount of time and energy in a way that I You know, I assume maybe like teenage athletes would, you know, but for me it was it was this, you know. And I loved it. And when me and Evan started writing Super bad together when we were thirteen or fourteen, like it's all I wanted to do. Like like we would skip school to write Super bad And I think even my parents could probably see like, oh, like this is he really likes this and he is really motivated to try to succeed at this, not in like a cute id way, but in a way that felt real, I think, you know. Do you look back and think it's weird that you and Evan connected at thirteen in this no, but and it has just been this incredible partnership. It just seems to me that two boys who so fundamentally and had so much talent were able to be at the same place at the same time and keep in touch Yeah, we marvel at it all the time. Like it's not lost on us that it's sort of a mirac like a miraculous thing I think it was like two people with like a little spark met, but then together we became a singular kind of creative entity in a lot of ways. And like we brain our brains weren't even like fully formed when we met. Like our brains like our creative brains really formed around one another. And like I think that's not any small part of why we work so well together and why we continue to work so well together because we started like a very young age together and there became like a cohesion and thought that was really Like it's impossible to replicate, I think, because like we truly grew up with each other and watched movies together all the time would talk about them, first started to learn to write dialogue together and to experiment with that together and to try to structure a story together. And so inherently like What I think is good story structure is what he thinks is good story structure. and what I think is good character development, he thinks is good character development and what I think is a good way to write a scene, he thinks is a good way to write a scene because we came up with it together You ended up moving to LA at sixteen to star in freaks and geeks after an open casting call in Vancouver, where you got the part. And you know, one of the things that is Also really interesting is that you were started financially supporting your family at sixteen. Yeah. Do you think that responsibility shaped your work ethic? I mean you talk about like absolutely loving what you were doing, but that also feels like it might have been For sure. Yes. somethingomething that felt like a big deal. I think I very much had like a fear of going broke and a fear of not having money and a lot of my friends were much more well off than we were. and I would just see. I would go to their houses and it was, you know, it was like it was like a real house and like I grew up in like a co op like in sort of you know, in like like a little housing community basically. It was like somewhere between like an apartment and an condo, I guess, you know? And And yeah, I I for sure and and we were never like You know, we were't like going hungry or anything, but but I could just see I was in a very different financial situation than everyone that I was kind of in my community, you know,, I'm sure that had something to do with my drive from a young age Has that shaped How you think about money and success Now. I think if anything this is probably not like the healthiest way to approach it is like I think I spent so much time worried about money when I was younger that now I make more money than I ever thought I would like I think like the gift I've given to myself is I'd never think about it Like I have no I almost never think about How much money I'm spending or making. I don't fetishize money. I don't care if other people are making more money than me doing the exact same thing as me. I don't have like an ego about it. I am making more than than I ever thought I would. And so I see other actors who are very et I've had conversations with other actors about it, you know, and and And that has just not been my approach to it. And as far as spending money goes, like It's again not a thing I see rich people who are like, I'm like, you're focused on that amount of money. L like the amount of stress you are causing yourself over an amount of money that will never impact your life in any way, shape or form is insane to me. And so I think like the gift I've given myself is I truly spend as little time thinking about it as humanly possible and as little time trying to focus on it or fixate on it I try not to be overly principled about it. If I feel like I'm getting charged more because of who I am. I'm like, yep, that's the way if you're going to charge anyone more, it's probably me. you know what I mean? And that's the way the world works. I try not to be philosophically You know, up in arms about my own you know, financial situation in any way. I don't care if I'm getting ripped off a little. I don't care if I'm overpaying for things a little honestly. like I'm not I again and I'm around people all the time who are always who are rich who are trying to get deals and trying to get a break and trying to get like they trying to feel like they are makes them feel special or something More it's funny. Like there's this uh I read this book on I read that going clear booker really. Every on in a while, you know, you read like one sentence and like snaps your whole perspective into place a little bit. And I remember reading that book about scientology and there was just one sentence in it about how Famous people tend to do a thing where If they aren't treated in a certain way, they it makes them think they're not as talented as they wish they were. And it's like, If I go to a restaurant and I have to wait twenty minutes for a table. instead of them just seing me right away as they are the famous person next to me is it because I'm not as Am I not as talented as I thought I was? Am I not as good as I thought I was? you know, if I'm trying to get into a party and they don't just let me in and I have to wait in line. like does that mean I'm not as good a writer as I thought I was? If I'm not getting a deal, if I'm not getting the best hotel room and I go next door and someone has a nicer hotel room than me on the press tour Does that mean that I am not as good an actor as I thought I was? And I think that is how a lot of famous people interpret how they're treated. And they think that if they're not getting the best treatment they aren't as skilled as they wish they were as they thought they were. And that was a thing that I realized when I read that, it's like, oh, it is tapping into some part of me that makes me worried I'm not as talented as I want to be or as I wish I was or and that's it because that's like the thing you fear the most and is the most potentially painful. How did you work through that? How did because obviously you said you felt that at some point and then it changed for you. Honestly, as soon as I read that one sentence, it started to shift for me and I started to much more easily identifying myself when that was happening and I was able to sort of, I think, shift my behavior pretty quickly in the wake of that. ye. Once you've moved out of that, how do you define your success. What are the metrics by which you say, you know what This is good. I did well. I'm okay Um I mean I wish it had nothing to do with how the work was received, but it for sure doesn't. Like that that is definitely a part of it, you know. Oviously Obviously. and I think that is the thing that most artists feel the most conflict about is like external validation versus didid I do what I wanted to do? But the truth is If my work isn't received well, then then I didn't do what I wanted to do because I want people to like what I do and to enjoy it. And especially when you're making comedy which I think is the hardest thing to make in a lot of ways because you are announcing that you are going for a specific reaction. And with a dramatic film You're not really saying that. you're kind of saying like, You know, we hope you find it insightful or interesting or meaningful or sad or cathartic. But with a comedy, you're saying like I want you to laugh And if you don't, I failed And it's also the making of it to me. like that has to go a certain way and that has to be a certain process, I think, in order for the work to be successful. And I think the day to day of it has to be cohesive to what I feel that should be in order for me to think the work is good, I think I'm just very interested in this. So last question on this. but When I look at the studio, you are the creator, the producer, the director, you help write it, and you star in it So it is Lally assess Rogan production in every possible way that it could be. Yeah. And then Just to use know the film that you're currently in, you're just acting. And obviously, you helped craft the character and the dynamics, but it's not you don't have the same kind of responsibility. No My name is on it one time Yeah parse that out for me in terms of that idea of getting satisfaction or having it reflect yourself, how do you differentiate between those two different thingsings. I mean, the The truth is like I For me, it is much more engaging to do what I'm doing on the studio. Like I greatly prefer to act and write and direct it's reallyally hard and taxing. It sounds really hard It takes a lot of me, but I genuinely love it and I never feel like I am doing more of what I should and could be doing from like a creative standpoint than when I'm doing all those things. And when I'm on the set of the studio and I'm appreciate the crushing pressure and the focus and what is required of me in order to do all those jobs well. and when I am able to actually do them all well, I feel a little level of creative satisfaction and gratification that I will never get from just doing one of those things, you know And so if I'm going to act in a thing, it has to be a thing that I feel like I would really love the product of a movie that if I saw it, I was like, oh, like That's the exact type of movie I love to watch. like being in the fableman, Steven Spielbergs something like that. You're like, of course, I'm going to work with Stehven Spielberg and it'll be educational. and and I then make put it on myself to really like extract everything I can from the experience as well. and even if I'm acting for an hour a day, I'm on set all day and I literally stood beside him and just ask him questions. I would bring up scenes from his movies on YouTube and just be like, explain to me how you did this. What did you think of? How technically did you do it? And he loved it. And I Yeah. And I did that. And I was just stood beside him all day asking him questions about how he filmed his movies and how he conceived them, how he blocks them, how he storybards, how you know, like, I think what I learned about blocking on the Fablems is like was like directly put in the studio and how to move the actors around and move the camera around the characters and how to make it dynamic, even a scene where people are at a dinner table talking and like all that, I was like, oh, I'm gonna absorb all of this from Stehven Spielberg if I can. So the way I read your on screen and off screen history, as we sort of discussed, it's sort of a testament to male friendship. There's Jed Apatu, of course, who hired you for freaks and geeks. And then you met a whole bunch of buddies through that. Jason Siegel, James Franco, and of course, you've had the same writing partner. berg as we've discussed Um, I asked you earlier what makes a good relationship akes a good male friendship. I think the same things as any other dynamic, you know, Like I found with you know, Evan and and the people You know, I tend to work with my close friends, notot all of them. I have very close friends from growing up who I don't work with But you know, I think like a desire to be good to one another, which again, sounds intuitive, I guess, but I think when I look at people who have bad relationships and bad dynamics, like that's the thing I notice is just like they don't seem to want to be nice to each other and they seem to be looking for every reason to not be nice to each other. And I think it comes down to like Do you like this person? you know? And I come from a world yeah, where it's like it was not like a Macho sports oriented like environment, like Everyone's parents were in therapy and, you know, like I'm from I'm from the Pacific Northwest, you know. We were ahead of the curve on a lot of that stuff in the eighties and nineties. and so I think like I come from a group of friends who are very like communicative and open and not afraid of sort of sharing what they were feeling with one another Why do you think that version of male friendship Translated so well on screen Me and Evan still marvel that like super bad is still Remotely Not just like accepted in today's society, but as a thing like kids still really seem to watch. Yes indeed. L just like when we were young, we would all watch we would watch fast timimes and things like that. L it seems like Super Bad has somehow like filled the slot in many ways of like the high school movie you watch and relate to when you are in high school, you know? And And I think part of it is because like is It is about exploring kindind of being vulnerable with your friends, you know? And that I think is a coming of age thing, like in and of its own Right, you know, And I remember When I was moving to LA, I did a bunch of shrooms with my friends. I was sixteen years old and we were at their house We were at one of my friends' houses and it was like the sun was coming up and I was laying on the couch. and my friend Fgel, who McLovin is based on, was there laying on the couch beside me. it was like a sleepover and we were kind of, you know And I remember just being like, so terrified to like move to Los Angeles to do this show and I'm not going to see you guys anymore. No I don't know anybody out there. And And he was like, yeah, man, like high school ends next year for us too Like I don't know where ready of us are going to college, if're gonna be friends anymore. if any of this is going to happen? And like it felt like a big moment. And it felt like the first time any of us had really acknowledged to one another like how much we cared about one another and how afraid we would be without one another, you know? And I think that's like a feeling, especially as high school ends and you're kind of going your separate ways. For me it was to go work, but it was no different than If I was going to a college and all my friends were going to a different one, you know? And I think that feel different a little different. but for all, you know, for logistically it was very similar, you know? and I think that feeling was what we really tried to put into the movie was this feeling of You know, not that high school's easy, but there's You're on the cusp of something You're on the cusp of something unknown. And I think that was However we were able to like bottle that feeling and put it into the movie seems to resonate. I mean, one interesting thing about your character in the invite is that he has no friends and I mean, it just seems pretty reflective of what's happening in the culture today more broadly with men. You know, the loneliness epidemic. For sure. I just wonder, is Hollywood doing a good job of showing positive male friendships the way it used to? I don't know. know because I think about That's what I'm saying. I was thinkinking about super bad and then I just it just really When I thought about your character and the invite and just what we're seeing in the culture wr at large, as someone who has really channeled male representation on screen, I mean, I came up watching lethal weapons. You know, Far Steelers' dayay off, suuper bad Yeah things just don't seem to look like that anymore. Um, I think I mean it's interesting. Yeah, like we try to do it on the studio a little bit, you know, there's stuff with me and Ike likeike I think ultimately like that is a relationship. We do keep like it's probably the most emotionally kind of constant relationship on the show and but I don't know why other people don't explore it. I know we have just done it a lot. And so I think it's something as we look to. It's like, I mean, it's funny, we did this roast many years ago And Nick Crole had a joke that really hit close to home where He was making fun of me and Evan on the roast And he was like When are you guys gonna make another movie where they're friends, then they stop being friends and then the end they're friends again. And I remember like being like, oh yeah, that is every movie we've ever made. And not to say that's a bad thing, but the fact that he could boil it down, that's simply into a joke. I think we were like, yeah maybe we should move away from that a little bit Hmm Um I'm going to ask you about a friendship that you did have a public break with, which was your friendship with James Franco after allegations of sexual misconduct were leveled against him I am curious about how you work through that decision and did that change the way you think about friendship at all T I mean trying to think How much I want to personally share about this. I understand that I The reason I ask is this, I think as a culture we are still grappling with if and how we allow people who've behave badly back into our lives back into the culture. and so I was sort of wondering about You know, what was a very seminal relationship for you? Yeah, like I honestly think the nuance of it is too personal for me to get into right now. Like it is a very personal thing. And I think there's like the public facing side of it, which I've spoken about and and and I And I have the same stance publicly that I've had and I think the proof is in the pudding more than anything is just I haven't I have not worked with him in years, you know? But Like the personal side of it is just it's It's so nuanced and it involves people that I don't know if I should be dragging into this and and and I think it's you know, I don't know what I would benefit from getting deeply into it in this moment. But I'd say Everything I've said, nothing is nothing has changed really since since the last time I've talked about all this and I haven't them in a really long time and I've know plans to Do you talk to him Talk to me a long time now So I want to ask you about your on screen relationships with women because I love Platonic Where you have a deep friendship with Rose Byrne, who's also like a regular collaborator with you. Yeah, she's great How Have you sort of thought about the female, male dynamic on screen because Platonic literally is, again about friendship. It's not romantic. Yeah. It's so interesting considering your previous comments about not finding the romantic dynamic interesting that this is aential storyline here. Yeah, I mean, I think it can again, I think can be like reductive. Like I think for so long that was the only dynamic there was between a man and woman on screen, esssentially, was a romantic one And part of it is just like what' what is new that that hasn't been explored, but is true to all of our lives or many of our lives anyway. And and And it's funny like I think so much over aking it in some ways goes into like What makes a funny female character in relation to a funny male character, you know, and do they have to be smart? Do they have to be dumb? Is it dumb? Is it bad if they're dumb? Is it sexus if they're dumb or is it sexus if they're smart? Like I've seen I've seen both things argued. I've seen, you know, it's like, oh, you don't want to give her the dumb charac. but like that's often funnier character is the dumb character. You know what I mean? And the worst choices a character makes often the more comedic they can perform as a as an actor, you know,, but they're dumb, you know, And so like I I mean, Marilyn Monroe was one of the great comedic actors her day. Exactly. So I think like To me what I've found with to be the healthiest conversations is just like what creates the most comedic potential if that is what you' trying to do, you know? and to not try to I think as soon as you start to think too globally and lose sight of like the thing you're making is when you get lost in the weeds a little bit. and what does that mean? If you start to feel like, well, like what we are saying with this is like men are like this and women are like this, that to me is so much harder to wrap my head around than like what I'm saying is this guy is like this and this woman is like this. And that's funny to specific to this. And what we are doing is making it work for this And and as long as it works, it's good. you know what I mean? And as long as it is it's funny, you you you're not thinking Is he dumb or is he smart or is he dumb or like you're just thinking it works and all of a sudden all the stigmas and and the history and the conversation around it kind of falls by the wayside because you're just watching a thing that works, you know what I mean? And so that's what I've seen work is like with Platonic. it just is You know, Rose's character is like doing incredibly stupid things all the time, making incredibly poor choices, being irresponsible, putting people in danger, putting people at risk, doing things that Again, I guess you could like philosophically argue like it is it great to portray anyone like that? Is it good? A we? What are we saying about women when we do this? What are we saying about men when we do this? But I think What they do so well on that show is like they're not trying to do that. They're like, what makes this character allow Rose Byurn to give the funniest performance she could possibly give and be as funny in these scenes as she could possibly be. And I think like I find like these kind of heavier conversations about theme and society and culture, like Hopefully that's just within you and will come out through your work because it's organic to your perspective, you know Do you think Hollywood has become more risk averse?? Yes. Okay. Yeah, one hundred percent. Yes Um, period industry like and we've just seen it. like You know, Sper Bad's a good example. Like when we made that movie bought our script. They hired a director They said it would have a twenty million dollars budget and it would start shooting in August or in April of that year And it would come out in like August of the following year That's it. And then we cast the movie We found a director for the movie We made it according to their schedule, and we released it on the date they chose. That would never happen today in a hundred million years. No studio would just buy a script Give it a release date, cast it. and then make it Now Everything has to be in place before they will decide whether or not they're making it. Who's the director? Who are the actors? Are they famous enough? Do they have big enough names If not, then we to change we gott to get different ones or else we won't make it. And I know we want it to start shooting in April and release it next summer, but if we don't have the right actors, we're not going to do that. becausecause we think these actors will get us more money than these actors, even though they might not be the funniest actors for the role, they might be more commercial for the role. Not to say you won't ultimately get to the funniest people for the role, but you'll have to go through an incredible process to do it in a way is all due to risk aversion, you know, like Amy Pascal was willing to just say like, make this movie. You'll put the funniest people in it That will make the best version of the movie and the best version of this movie is what will make us the most money That is not said anymore really in in Hollywood As I was preparing for this interview, I was looking at your list of credits, and you know, it's just astonishing when you sort of sit with it prodroducing the hit superhero series The Boys, acting in the envide, voicing Kung Fu Panda, Platonic studio I mean, there's just like a lot there. And I was recently watching Jud Apppatau's Excellent documentary on Melbrooks. Oh yeah. and thinking that you're our generation's Mel Brooks I mean, you've already made comedies that have sort of defined a generation. You're only forty four I mean, is he someone that you've modeled your career on Um Honestly, what's I love Melb. I more modeled my career off of like Harold Reayus and, you know, and I would look at like You know, not on a personal level, but I was a big my parents loved Woody Allen movies when I was a kid, you know, and I was sort of inundated with like Hannah and her sisters and things like that. And Mel Brooks, I mean, I like it's funny, like spaceballs like I watched spaceballs before Star Wars probably a hundred million times, but What's funny is I never had like too close of a plan or too specific of a goal or I never looked at anyone's career really and was like, I want that career. I I think when I was in my early twenties, I sort of surpassed any expectation I could have had for myself in many ways And and after that I sort of saw that like the greatest gift I could give to myself was to like do whatever creatively excited me in whatever moment I was in and not working towards something We like, I'll only be happy if I do this and if once I do this, I'll know I've made it, you know? Like I felt like I made it when I was twenty three years old. And so after that, I was like I I think I should just do what seems exciting to me and it is funny because sometimes I will an interview and look back and I'll be like, wow, I'm doing a lot of it's a lot of stuff and it's a weird array of stuff and that I look and it's a stuff it's stuff that truly reflects my taste and who I am and my sensibilities. Me and Evan grew up reading comic books. were That's one of the first things we bonded on. and so getting to adapt Comicook Garth Ann is one of my favorite comic writers of all time, so getting to make preacher and the Bys and things like that, especially like You know, I remember when like David Fincher was attached to make prereacher and then it fell apart and we ended up making it. And the boys, like every big director in Hollywood was attached to adapt the boys at one point or another and we just sort of like Hung out in the background for a decade until everyone else fell through and we became the most viable option to Turn it down It wasn't even turn down didn't work out. It just didn't work out. They kept making versions. It is tricky and we changed it quite a bit from the source material, I think, to make it into something that was far more digestible as visual entertainment than than it would have been otherwise, you know? But I think like the greatest gift I have in my career is that I truly we can kind of do anything and we can make dramatic things and comedic things and animated things and live action things and things like Ninja Turtles honestly, like has been one of my favorite things we've made in years. And like I love that movie. and I think it's so good and so reflective of taste and my sensibility and what I loved when I was a kid, but also infused with like highest level of writing and storytelling and plot construction that I could fathably if conceive of in that time in my life and I look at how it's constructed from like a structure and story standpoint, and I'm like legitimately very proud of it. And I think like, oh that is like as well structured a film as you can make in many ways. And my hope is that our work just clearly has had the highest level of thought and care and consideration put into it no matter what it is. And like as risk averse as Hollywood is, I'm always trying to instill in the people that we work with. we can take a swing, let's take it. If no one's looking, let's do something crazy. If no one's if we're in this moment where no one's paying attention, like let's let's make Ninja Turtles look insane. Like let's let's really push it. And to me, I also hope our work has that sort of like intrepid spirits, like a spirit of that we are going for it and that we are not playing it safe, but we are swing for the fences, you know Rogan, thank you so much. We'll speak again. Thank you. After the break, I talk to Seth again and asked him about AI The worst person you know who has any interest in writing is probably more helpful to you ultimately than some like artificial intelligence program Are you now or have you ever been? The most urgent question of our times is this summer's must see theatrical event. This electrifying drama recounts the voices of a generation who faced a vengeful government and a nation on edge, using only their on the record statements as played by a rotating all star cast Their words will reach us when we need them most. Are you now or have you ever been Get tickets now. O places can expose you to identity theft. That's why Lifeelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the Lifeelock app, save up to thirty percent your first year Visit lifeelock. com slash daily. Terms apply For a small business owner, every day is full of surprises Some great Some not so great Like when a client cancels their order at the last minute But here's a surprise you will like. Progressive provides small business owners with thirty customizable coverage options to help keep their business going strong So go ahead. surprise yourself. Get a quote in as little as eight minutes at progressivecommercial d. com aggressive casualty insurance company and affiliates and thir party insureur, coverage is not available in all states or for all vehicles and coverage selections Seth Roggan, so glad to talk to you again. We're back. We're back. All right. In our first conversation, we talked about opportunities for young people coming up in Hollywood and how the industry has changed and possibly, you know someone like you wouldn't have the same sort of opportunities to make movies today And then we just saw two YouTubers dominate the box office. One of them, Kane Parsons, the director of Backroooms is twenty. He was sixteen when he made the YouTube video The movie is based on. And then Curry Barker, the director of Obsession is twenty six. These have just been like huge successes. I mean, what do you make of that Um I mean, honestly, it totally fits in line with advice that I have been giving people for years when they come up to me, which is They say, I want to make it in movies, I want to do something And I tell them like, make stuff and make stuff that that is really good. and I'm like, trust me, people like me are like begging that praying that they see something Imressive I met with Caine when I think he was sixteen or seventeen years old because I watched his YouTube videos. And I remember the people at my company being like, why are we meeting with a sixteen year old? And I was like, trust me, this kid is very talented, you know? And so ever since our phones had cameras on them basically, I've been That has become my default advice to people. And now with Blender and Visual effects and things like that, people like literally on a laptop, you can make thing that when I was growing up would cost you Tens of millions of dollars, you know. It has really opened the door for people who are skilled and dedicated to really show what they're they're capable of, you know? and I think that that's Great thing Hollywood always seems to be in the middle of like an angsty crisis. Variety called what just happened with these two YouTubers a quote, tectonic shift in Hollywood that sent shockwaves through the industry. I do wonder first of all, what you make of that. I mean, do you think that's overstating what just happened Because I guess what I think is so alluring to executives is that YouTubers as you just mentioned, have cheap technology that they can use to get millions of eyeballs, they can workshop an idea and then have a built in audience. So I guess it takes the guesswork out of selling tickets. So I'm just wondering How you see it since you already were tracking him for so long Yeah, I mean, I I don't I don't know if like online engagement necessarily translates into like ticket sales. Definitely, you know what I mean? But I think to your first part of the question, like I think it's overstating that it's a tectonic shift if your assumption is that these shifts don't happen constantly in Hollywood, you know? L And I think that's something me and Evan talk about a lot is It's from network. like I always think of that line of network where Robert Duval is like, it's a volatile industry and the investors are like, well, we shouldn't be why are we financially invested in a volatile industry? And And but I think by definition it is a volatile industry, you know, and it changes. and it's almost the one defining feature of Hollywood from my experience in it is that there is every few years a tectonic shift. God it's not really my job to be overly invested in these trends, I guess, and I'm able to sort of keep my head down and And we're aware of them again, and we'll kind of ride the waves of them if it fits in with our own creative ambitions, you know, And I'm more than happy to like say in a pitch how whatever I'm doing maybe fits into the trend of what I hope the executive I'm pitching to or assume the executive I'm pitching to is looking for. But to me, yeah, like It's not that shocking to me that something like this happened. There's like a whole generation of people who have access to essentially professional filmmaking equipment for a price that again, when I was young was like completely unobtainable. they and they're making their own stuff and studios are making Hones the money off of it, which again, is not that different than like When Lonely Island and those guys made YouTube videos and people hired them or when the Broad City girls made their show on YouTube and people hired them or when, you know, Nathan feelld there all a lot of people like in comedy, it's a little more commonplace, I think. But I think now with technology, it's allowing people who really thrive in different genres, genres that traditionally maybe require more resources to really kind of show what they can do. and again, in studios will be more than happy to capitalize off of that whenever they see an opportunity to. Let me ask you just as an aside, what makes a good pitch U, I think a good pitch is short, generally speaking, honestly. like I I and I think a pitch And I'm not I'm not someone who I assume is great at pitching, honestly, you know what I mean? I pitch people pitch you, I'm sure. So I'm just curious. If the idea is genuinely good, the pitch is kind of easy. And Im actually get kind of suspicious of people who are like good pitchers To me, like the quintessential pitch I'm used to hear is from like a nervous comedy writer who has terrible people skills, who has no ability to like present themselves in a way that is nearly representative of what they're capable of, you know what I mean? And so when someone comes in too slick and flashy I get a little suspicious honestly. but I'm just looking for the idea. I know myself, I've had so many ideas that are so hard to pitch. I remember trying to pitch people Pineapple Express and them just looking at us like we were insane and trying to pitch this is the end and people looking at us like we were crazy. And like with the studio when we pitch that our only thought was to like way over deelliver. What makes it easy for these people whose entire job is like risk mitigation to say yes to me? And so they could see like, oh, it has a cast and I don't have to imagine like who's this character? It's this person, whoo's this character? It's this person. like and I think it showed like we reallyally like we're geared towards making the show and not just towards like writing the show for money, which is another thing a lot of people do, you know?. Um One of the other sort of big disruptors in Hollywood is, of course, AI And you've been you know, vocally against AIs use in writing and in animation. Do you feel like you're standing against the tide? And why are you standing against the tide? Because again, I guess it's like a You know, I think the executives view it as like a cost savings, right? Because I think they see it as a way to execute in a way that doesn't require as many resources Yeah I think like I guess I look to the different. sectors of the industry. Like, I know a lot of people who work in Visual effects who think Who are visual effects artists, truly who think AI can help them do their work better But they work in a field where technology is somethingomething they are having to navigate in order to their job to what they view as the best of their abilities. I don't think writing has that problem. You know what I mean? I don't think If you're having a hard time writing that technology is the thing that is in your way, I think it is either your dedication or your skills or your abilities or just the amount of time you spent doing it and the amount you have to develop your own abilities to match what it is you're hoping you're putting out in the world, you know? And I'm only speaking for my own personal interest in it. You know what I mean? Like I know other writers who do use you know, Chat GPT to have conversations, I guess about their ideas. It's just not a thing that has ever interested me and and it's and it's not a thing that I ever was even remotely ed to engage with because I have a writing process that I really enjoy, you know what I mean? But I do understand how you if you were alone somewhere in your apartment writing, trying to write a script, having no one to talk to about it, No one in your life cares that you're doing this, I definitely understand the temptation to to use a like artificial intelligence as some sort of sounding board because working alone is very hard and scary, you know. But I think I would advise people to Seek out some sort of creative community and even like the worst person you know who has any interest in writing is probably more helpful to you ultimately than some like artificial intelligence program to talk about your writing with. You're not gonna have an Evan AI bot to be Exactly All right, hard pivot As I mentioned, you were on Howard Stern, where you told a lot of stories about drugs. And you said the only time that you were drug free was on a trip to Singapore wasillegal un penalty of death. And I really was curious because you didn't describe the experience of what it was like not to be high for the first time since you were a kid It was fine. It's not it's not that weird. Like I Yeah, it was fine. And I go straight like it's not like I in my day to day life, I have not in a position where I can just smoke weed literally all day every day at all times. Like I you know, last week we were filming in some skyscraper downtown. I couldn't smoke weed in there. And so I went I went all day without smoking weed and it's pretty, you know, it's not like I'm freaking out or anything. It's just You know, I'm a little happier if I cant smoke weed all day. that's all. Yeah. I mean youve helped normalize cannabis use. When I think about pineapple Express to today, it's been a complete sea change. Yes. And I think it's a real testament to the cultural impact of your work. Was that an explicit aim or just sort of a fortunate byproduct Um I'd say it was a I'd say it was sort of a specific aim but a very like personal one. Like, I don't think our goal was like If this works, we will change culture's view on weed. I think it was more like We don't like how we are stigmatized as people who smoke weed. And I think ultimate way to show that People who smoke a lot of weed are not who you think they are is to really proficiently make an entire movie about people who smoke weed implicitly by people who smoke weed that is for people who smoke weed but is actually like Has the thought and care and consideration and technical kind of acumen put into it that like any real Hollywood movie has. And I think to us, that's kind of what had never been done before. Friday is probably the closest one, you know. And I love that movie. but even that was sort of like a very I think they they made that movie for like Almost no money. you know, it was a very small movie and I think that movie kind of had an outsized impact. But yeah, we were really kind of on a personal level trying to be like, what if we made like a real a realwed movie and people saw that like it wasn't this like outcast thing for idiots. It was a thing that could be as mainstream as anything, you know. And we were shocked when it was so embraced, honestly in that Today when I go to the weed store, the fact that there's like pineapple Express weed that exist is like so funny, I think. and like a real direct kind of descendant of the movie. and I think the fact that yeah, that it was a weed movie that and even when we were promoting that movie, like it was not easy. like, you know Oh they people I remember going on TRL which dates this story. And like really literally right before I went on, they were like, oh and you can't talk about weed at all. And I'm like, I'm here to promote a movie. Like the movie's title is Weed. Like what am I going to talk about And they were like, I don't know, figure it out, but you't you literally can't mention weed on the show. How do you promote that without mentioning weed? Well, what I think I did is I did talk about it and then they like aired it once and then it scrubbed it from DRL existence. Yeah, it was tough Okay, before I say goodbye, you're filming the studio today. Anything that you can say about the new season? anything at all? I don't know. I can say it's it's F more ambitious than the first season. and I Honestly like there's been many times I've been on set this season and I've been I've been truly amazed that at what in a way that has offered me a lot of gratification and pride. like I've been amazed at what we've been able to pull off. and