Reflecting on the State of America

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Visit googlestore. com to learn more and start a new relationship with your health requires Google acccount, Google Health app, Internet, and Google Health Premium subscription. Fature subject to change. Availability and results vary, not intended for medical purposes, workorks independently of Gemini apps. Check responses for accuracy It's a rare moment where you could have actually had A beautiful American patriotic celebration. I'll be cringe and say that I'm sad that we don't get to have that. But instead we have this ridiculous incompetent boob The ferris wheel isn't working. The reflecting pool is green the ice cream is melting. Nobody's showing up. States feel like they should cancel and they're right to do so. Nobody wants to be associated with this guy and it's just a big Bummer this is a dark moment and it is a shame that we have fallen so low that this is what it would look like. to forever for how we marked an important milestone in the history of the country. That's where I'm at. And I hope they fix the pool I'm Joanna Colles, this is the Dailyast podcast. and today we're going to be talking to Pod Save America's John Lovet from Love it or Leave it. And there's a lot he wants to leave behind. We get into Trump's health. We get into the disaster that is the two hundred fiftieth anniversaries. We get into his reflections on what it was like being at the Obama library, but really we get into What are the Republicans doing and what is Donald Trump doing railing up his colleagues in Congress, Wh is he doing that? What possibly is his strategy and how should The Democrats take it on. What is the future of the Democratic Party while the Republicans are doing what they're doing right now? How bad is it going to be for Trump at the midterms? What is he going to do to try and thwart a democratic victory? And well we get into John's plans for how he'll be celebrating two hundred fifty years of America. So before we go any further, I just want to remind you please Subscribe to the Daily Beast podcast. That's how we can bring you these independent conversations. Yes, we're still independent media and there aren't that many of us around at this stage. We appreciate your support. Okay, here's John Lovet I love it. You are fresh back from the opening of the Obama Library and I want to know exactly what the gossip was there. I also want to know what you think about how badly Trump might lose at the midterms. I want to know what you think about the state Fair. I want to know what you think about the Reflecting pool course you have been on this scene as long as you have and you've been such a strong observer of it. I want to know what you think about Donald Trump as he enters his night. decade in terms of his health. This is a man who's been in plame sight. We've seen him talking and walking for the last forty years in the media. When you look at him now, do you see a man who is still the same as he was when we first watched him on television Or do you think he's changed So If you go back and watch Trump in the debates in twenty sixteen Uh, or go back further than that. There's been a change in how he communicates. It's much less controlled You know, he always meandered. It was always quite narcissistic but, uh He used to he's not getting he can't get purchase You know, it when he's speaking, he's always like we're tumbling down the side of a hill. And it used to be, it used to be that at some point The talons would grab and then he'd make the point he was trying to make. He was just a little bit faster a little bit quick. And so I do think part of that is just him getting older and slowing down Part of it also is he no longer feel obiged feels obliged to pretend to talk like a normal politician or to be as serious as he thinks he should be. I think he was putting on a little bit of a show of what he thought he was supposed to sound like and now he feels less restrained and then also He doesn't feel as if he needs to stop himself from going on his tangents anymore. He no longer has, I think, anyone around him giving him the kind of feedback that would say, hey, you really do need to get back to the message. She was always like that. It's worse than it was, right? This is obviously not a new phenomenon with Donald Trump, that he's at an event that's supposed to be about affordability. and he's ranting about the election being stolen and his enemies and how beautiful the ballroom iss going to be. you know, you could find versions of that all along the way He's just a little bit it's more bombastic. it's less cogent. there are fewer vocabulary words. Now What's the difference between a person that is losing a step as they're getting older and a person who is M. with age no longer feeling bound by the kind of rules that people used to be bound by. I don't know. mayaybe both is what getting older really is, but that's how I see it. And do you see there being a sort of a health a mental health condition or do you think it might just be him getting older? And his point has always been, I'm not a regular politician. I'm not going to talk to you like a regular politician because people don't like politicians I don't think it really matters he is mentally unfit to be present He is psychologically unfit to be present. He should not be in this job. He is a depraved and reprehensible, narcissistic and broken figure. He has little to no character. He is unfit. Is he becoming more unfit as he ages? probablyrob. Probably, but we're already on the wrong side of the line Uh, so, u u And and There's a problem. There are a lot of people that that are frustrated because they say, well, we talked about Joe Biden's age all the time. whyy aren't we having the same conversation about Donald Trump. Why does Donald Trump get sorted as crazy, not old, right? And I think some of that is his talents as a political figure. He seems energetic. He's everywhere He's always speaking. And you know, he's going to the to the game and then speaking on the tarmac at midnight. What is he saying on the tarmac at midnight? Gbblygook. But he's always out there. So I do think that's a defense against the accusation But regardless like Does he have a mental disorder or is he just the world's shittiest person? I don't know. Or maybe that's a distinction without a difference. Like dont I don't know what you would find about Donald Trump in the DSM six, but I't I just don't care It might be under its own section's for sure. kindind of Yeah. Are we on the DM Are we on the DSM six? What DSM are we on I don't know what' where are we about? I don't know But he would there'd be no diagnosis ever before like it's the only diagnosis like this. by the way. He'd be very, I think he'd be very proud of that. Oh think that's right. So you're an expert in communication. Can you sort of analyze for us his communication style because I am as you say, he's always talking. he's always talking. and the contrast obviously with Joe Biden, who was sort of whispering Is Trumps always talking actually an advantage for him So You know, this has been the question for such a long time with Trump, like It's clear Trump thinks it is, right? And the people around Trump thinks it is an advantage to him It certainly was in primaries where he crowded out the space for anyone u to compete with him Now as president right now, he has an approval rating, you know maybe on a good day. There's a four in front of it. It's in the thes, sometimes low threes. A new survey just came out from CNN. I believe that found his strong support is down to sixteen percent from the high twenties or so even the the die hard supporters of Trump are no longer as much behind him. The country really has, I think turnurn time in because of inflation because of the war and because he hasn't delivered on what he said he was going to do and because he's been absurdly focused on ridiculous side quest instead of the main job of being president Uh, so yeah, he's out there every day. Would it be worse if he weren't? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It's a little bit overdetermined. Now I think sees is Everyone says I'm you know, doing damage to myself and I'm not on messaging at here I am president in my second term Uh And so, you know, presidents change, you know, they they kind of become more themselves in a way and a lot of the the The strengths that bring them to office often become flaws when they stick to them, right? You know, I think that is true of Biden in the way that he always felt he was underestimated and was underestimated And so that allowed them to kind of build this sort of fortress around themselves in which they believe the fact that they were being so questioned was yet another sign that that he was being doubted, even though he'll always pull through in the end that he was a closer You know, Barack Obama U was someone who had a kind of steady calm and then, you know, they lose the Congress and, you know, what there's a kind of like a steadiness, but maybe a lack of a judgment adjustment that people criticize in the second term. And I think that's debatable, but I think that would be the case with Trump, right? L he H was cast out virtually, right? I mean, Mitch McConnell as one of the great horse the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, uh fail to fail to fail to get rid of him Uh, uh But nonetheless, like there's never been a president at a lower ebb. He had launched an insurrection. He was considered unelectable. You go back to look at these statements from Republicans now suppocating before him that said he was finished and done and despicable Uh And yet hew clawed his way back. So that's what he thinks he was rewarded for his his like his his his flood the zone communication and talking about election theft and everything else. So Is he rewarded for it? I think he's president And he shouldn't be, but right now, no. I mean, Donald Trump There's no one doing more damage to the ability of Republicans. to retain some seats in Congress than Donald Trump. He is he is couldn't be doing more to hurt their chances of keeping the House and keeping the Senate, and that's in part because of how much he's out there Eating French fries at the beach and you want to take a quick in the ocean. so you put a seagull on watch. That's not security, that's catering for the seaagull. 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For more information, you can go to for thepeeople d. com slash daily beast Okay, so two questions I want to ask you from that Sadly do you think he could lose in the midterms? and The shouting and the sort of bullying behavior that was immediately leaked after the Republican Senate lunch on Wednesday, where he and Bill Cassidy, the senator from Louisiana, as we know, Donald Trump primaried and won. in that lunch, Trump was calling him a loser. He was saying he was a lunatic Cassady emerged from the lunch looking actually shaken up, even for a man who already knows he's not going back to the Senate. So So can you talk a little bit about what you think he's getting out of that Yeah, I mean how strategic is it for Donald Trump to get into a screaming match with a Republican senator in front of the caucus when you know and to basically talk at them for some length of time without letting anybody else speak, I don't know The He does not broke dissent, right? And four Republicans broke and supported the Iran warar Powers resolution. The Republicans in the Senate will not give him the votes as of right now to pass his Sve act, which is a law to make it harder to vote and federalize elections because they are worried about being defeated in the midterms. and Donald Trump doesn't like feeling out of control He, you know, for all his bluster, he sees the poles. he knows what's coming I think he would I think you would like to pass a law to make to tilt the scales towards Republicans in the election in terms of the vote actually kind of hamstringing our democracy, because you think that gives them a chance but also I think he'd like to blame them If they fail to pass this because he's saying if we don't pass it we're going lose because they're going to steal it I also think he doesn't like being rebuked on Iran. I don't think his ego can handle even the slightest u questioning by these people. It's embarrassing to him And he also believes that part of his power comes from all of these people knowing that he never lets anything go. He swings at every pitch. And so yeah, when he goes in there, he's going to go toe to toe with Cassidy who he just defeated in a primary and feels like he bullied basically out of Congress. and he is going kind of push these people until they come back and have another vote on the Iran war powers so that he can go around and say, see, see, see, I like I have these people. They'll do whatever I say You were obviously part of the Obama administration and we had the JCPOA. We now appear to have a deal that is far less good that leaves the Iranians, as we've seen today, the shot at a tanker today, leaves the Iranians in control of the Strait of Hormuz. Does this sort of make you despair when you look at the recent action in Iran. I mean, do you just think, oh, the world's moving in a sort of in a worse direction, or are you sort of fairly sanguine about it I think if we stopped and really considered the amount of damage, generational damage that's being done by this presidency the Aount of preventable chaos destruction Lost opportunity It's almost too much to take in all at once. And it's obviously the things he's breaking Right, the What he' what he what what they did to US AID? U the the kind of destruction of the kind of independence of the Justice Department Uh the firing of peopleople with expertise all across the government, like we saw with greworm the research that's not being done or that was aborted in the middle that held such promise that hopefully could be resumed. or may be lost, like the the staggering cost of what he's done. that. that were contributing to our society whose only fault was having been documented or come as a child but was told by us to come, right? We built an economy around undocumented people. We told them that they could work. they came and they built lives here because we had a an immigration system built on the backs of people who were undocumented and the amount of pain and misery, all of it uh you add it up. it's it's it's staggering and You know, I think there's lot of people that that like They, Oh, you know, you know, We'll undo this, We'll undo that some of it, hopefully, but no, we're paying a great price for this. It's terrible. What he's doing is terrible, the cotless. the fact that we pulled out of the JCPOA, the Obama era nuclear deal. We launched this war that killed thousands of people. We enabled Benjamin Netanyahu to H. basically yoke America into this conflict that has not only harmed our interests, but by the way, made Israel more of a pariah in the world destroyed What was a bipartisan consensus about supporting Israel, like the like the cost of what Trump has done and what this administration has done M We will pay for a very long term Were you ever part of conversations even sort of chan gently where Netanyahu was trying to pressurize the Obama administration into going into Iran I mean, Hillary Clinton's talked about it a lot recently, and Ben Rhodes has been on our podcast talking about it So I was a I was in this sort domestic speech writing and so I really didn't touch Foreign policy, Ben Rhodes and another writer named Terry Zuplat did a lot of the foreign policy speech writing, but I think as we all know, this Bender Netanyahu has been wanting the United States to be drawn into a conflict with Iran for as long as he's been in public life. It's been his his great mission, and he finally succeeded when he convinced Donald Trump do it. Now a lot of the like, you know, what we just talked about the the ways in which the U.S M was way to allied with Benjamin Netanyahu who refused to put enough pressure on Israel that predates Donald Trump Joeid deserves a lot of criticism for that as well. But the fact that there was a presentation by Benjamin Netanyahu in the situation room to the President of the United States. I see a lot of people saying onnce we learned that, like, oh wow, like I can't believe what Benjamin Netanyahu was able to get away with To get into that room is a decision made by Marco Rubio, who is National seecurity adviser, among many other responsibilities. It's a decision by the administration to put Donald Trump in that position This is This isn't just a Donald Trump thing. It's not even just a Benjamin Nanyahu thing. this was an administration decision by the leaders of this administration to bound us up with Israel's policy of wanting to u do regime change in Iran and it backfired spectacularly and The end result is America looking weak and Iran being able to con assert control over this waterway while JD Vance negotiates a deal that is far less. stringent than the one Donald Trump claimed was the worst deal in human history One thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is how easy it is to go through life just assuming everything is fine until something isn't I feel like so many doctor visits end the same way. Everything looks fine, drink more water, seeee you next year. Meanwhile I'm left wondering, A I getting enough nutrients? How's my metabolism? What should I actually be focusing on That's why I'm excited about superpower Superpower takes a completely different approach. They send a licensed professional to your home or you can visit a nearby lab, and you get testing across more than a hundred biomarkers. Then everything shows up in one app with insights into your heart health hormones, metabolism, vitamins, minerals, biological age and more. What I love is that it doesn't just give you data, it gives you an actionable plan and tracks your progress over time so you're not starting from scratch every year. Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with superpower. For a limited time, our listeners get twenty dollars off to unlock their new health intelligence Head over to superpower dot com and use code Daily Beast for twenty dollars off your membership That's code Daily Beast and after you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about superpower. so do us a favor and tell them the Daily Beast sent you Do you think that JD Vance is being set up to fail here You know No I don't think he's being set up by anyone to fail. I think he's failing because he you know failing on his a. There's no there's no grant they He is He is not being he's not some sort of stooge here. H He is trying to put himself out there as a great communicator for the administration, he' And, you know, he's just, u ike I don't know the person out there who is able to in a sophisticated way defend Donald Trump. Like maybe such a person doesn't exist, but it's certainly not JD Vance R who today was celebrating Richard Nixon and saying that if Richard Nixon were around today, can we just have that moment, the only American president to have resigned? And JD Vance is like, you know what? if that was now be a twelve hour news cycle. You know what And this is where it's like he's maybe he's not wrong. You know what? Maybe he's right. Maybe that's how bad things have gotten. Maybe mayaybe he's right that if Richard Nixon were around today He wouldn't face pressure from inside his own party to resign there wouldn't be the kind of collective fury at the criminality of the administration. And what a great shame that is. What a great historic shame that JD Vance is a part of. Look at him sitting there all smug kind of like Atenberurgh on the seerengetti with a pair of binoculars remarking on how far America has fallen Like it's despicable. And he's doing this by the way. It's not, you know, I look, I don't, I don't I don't think it's such a like a master stroke. I think it's some great strategy, but I think he is signaling that he is willing to behave in a Nixonian way or a Trumpian way, right? that he'd be willing to do the kind of thing that Nixon would do that he didn't get away with, right that he'd be willing to I you know, be as sleazzy as Nixon one Nixon was, I guess I guess that's what he's saying h But I find the whole thing it is You know, you'll go back and watch a movie from the nineties where A scandal is exposed and it brings down the president. And Harrison Ford goes before Congress and he says, this is what happened when the president illegally sent troops to South America. And that's when the movie ends. That's when the movie ends because it's assumed in the movie that everyone's going to be so pissed that there'll be consequences. And now it's like, well, I don't know what would happen. Maybe the president goes out there and calls him a liar buttonholes his Republican allies and those Republicans, it turns out, have absolutely no loyalty or deeper set of principles that they care about, none they'd willing to risk anything for, and so the president would get away with whatever Right? So you think you might be signaling that's interesting. I thought I mean, I was very confused by that because also he was talking about how, you know Ls of Nixons policies like opening up China and trying to get a nuclear treaty with the Russians, I mean, that was odd too, because that's the opposite of what Donald Trump is doing. Donald Trump has slapped tariffs on China and he's snuggling up to Vladimir Putin. I mean, I thought that was bizarre Yeah, I look I'm not really super interested in JD Vance's like efforts to use a of narrow reading of history to justify his abandonment of any principles and completely reverse who he claimed to be. But you, Nixon creates the EPA. He was strategic. you know think people who defend Trump, they go to like the madman theory that Nixon would pretend to be a little bit nuts Kissinger would say that because you know democracies have a disadvantage because autocracies know we care about our people and are responsible to them, that gives them the ability to negotiate harder because we know they don't have to care as much about the damage they can do. I'm just this is what And so you you have to pretend to be a little bit crazy. You got to push them to the edge. There was a point T Nixon going China. There was a goal. It was about creating a friction between the two communist countries. Trump has empowered Vladimir Putin. He has empowered China. He has bullied our allies. He is trying to break NATO. he is threatening Greenland. he is U u Harfing our friends. he is doing great damage to our interests So yeah, man, boy, Nixon. he certainly did get he certainly maybe would have gotten away with more today. He also would be a Rhino squish U u Neo Con Uh so you know, J I't Ryan Reynolds here from MintMobile, with a message for everyone paying Big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just fifteen dollars a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment Anyway, give it a try at mintobile dot com slash switch. Upront payment of forty five dollars for three month plan equivalent to fifteen dollars a month required, intntro rate for three months only, then full price plan options available tax and fees extra, Sfil terms at MintMobile dot com dot Good luck, TD. So how bad actually do you think? I mean, I'm so used to hearing you being cheerful and the funny man and it's interesting hearing you so sort of worked up about it Um, Do you think Trump could be the midtermms approach. I don't think there's anything you really can take off the table. so he The Justice Department become a tool of the administration an unprecedented way. So it has the ability to launch investigations into anyone. There was reports about the Justice Department going after Gavin Newsom. Now we don't know the details of that yet. There' a I think John Bolton, I think is pleading guilty today and you end up you end up talking about the specifics of the allegations, which which we should do, right? Of course, that's what you should But can you trust that that an administration isn't going after someone There's a. whatever they end up turning up on people It has always been the case and it has been a great warning from previous attorneys general that if the Justice Department goes after people and looks for crimes as opposed to looking for crimes and then finding those responsible That is destructive even if they find stuff You go digging through the campaign finance reports of every every Democrat with a chance of defeating a vulnerable Republican. Are there going to be problems in the filings? Are there mistakes? This is a complicated U legal regime. people like this is the danger of what a Jice deepartment can do if it's targeting individuals. So they will be opening investigations into Democrats that they're worried about. and it will be incumbent upon us to call that out for what it is. We don't know what they're going to do around polling places. We don't know what they're going to do about seing people once they've won. I do think the answer is winning so big such by by such a great margin that it is too big to rig and U I'm glad California has passed some reforms to count the ballots faster due, even though a lot of those allegations are You know, it's all of those allegations of California being rigging the votes because we count slowly are completely made up and speacious. But I do think counting ballots faster is good government. Anyway. U, But of course I'm worried about it. Trump is never more dangerous than when he's cornered. He's he's a You know, he's a he's a feral creature He's a feral creature. he is indeed. So You are at the Obama. library opening last week. veryery jealous. I want to know exactly what it was like. And also is the building more attractive when you're actually there? becausecause the photos of it look very brutalist and kind of severe. But I'm told by people inside, you know, being inside is actually much more appealing So The the stone on the outside of the tower is much more interesting in person. It is much more like surpising and beautiful in person. and it is definitely not translating to photos. I think that that's true. h It's also just a bigger space, right? People are pointing to that one building. That building isn't the the Obamelisk isn't the only structure. That's like one structure and it's a beautiful campus. and a lot of what A lot of it is about what it feels like to be outside and to walk around. So it is a beautiful place on the whole like I I'm not You know I was a Hillary person before I was an Obamac person. I I say this figiously, but I do think it's ue Like I'm a hope person. Like that's what motivates me. I'm anger person. I'm motivated by rage and I sometimes find in politics I think being inspiring is of great. because what does it mean to be inspiring? you're convincing people to do more than they might otherwise do or to be more generous, to be more open, to be more curious, to be more involved, to use their power. L that's a beautiful and good thing. But when a person says, I want to be inspired, it's like, what do you mean? That's that would suggest you know what you should be doing and you're waiting for someone to what? like give you goosebumps, so you go out and do it. So for me, Im not I'm not a nostalgic person by nature. so So for me walking around, When I was What I was struck by is there is att tension, which is Oh, Back Obama did you see that Back Obama? do you see this approval rating among Democrats right now? Do do you know what it is It's probably incredibly high, isn't it? It's ninety six percent. It's ninety ninety six percent. Wow. If you ask him, there was another another poll came out And by a plurality, when people say, who's the best president in living memory or to something to that extent, it's Barack Obama And so he remains this unifying and popular figure. And even when he was losing ground on the economy, even when he was facing setbacks and getting trrounced in the midterms, his personal popularity, how people viewed him as a person really did stay high. So it was a great affection for Barack Obama and the way he practiced politics and I also feel sometimes that am I had this great privilege part of this generation, they got to be part of the that era of politics and it was a great proving ground for people who saw politics as a place where you could genuinely, you could first of all persuade people. You could change people's minds, you could surprise people. and you could do big things and that being hopeful wasn't cringe It just doesn' have to be cringe and U I felt that being at The library and I think a great question. we have to answer is okay This was a model that was persuasive to the country twice. was a model that led to a lot of progress, including the Affordable Care Act, which that tri as hard as they might still stands U also ultimately did not persuade enough people once Obama left the stage to continue, right? And it led to a backlash. And I'm'm I want to what I was thinking about as I was walking around that space is What are the ways in which this story of America of of organizing and progress and the power of democracy What is it that led so many people to become cynical about it and to be willing to give someone like Donald Trump a chance. And that's why I get so animated when JD Vance says something like, Ohh Nixon would have gotten away with it today becausecause I do think there's a deeper deeper loss that were were were're struggling with like of of a collective sense of values and decency and a belief that I'm going I'm gonna to play by the rules. because I know you are and I trust you to do it. And How do we we were a high trust society that became a low trust society. How do we become a high trust society again How do how do we trust that If we wait in line for our boarding group at the airport. Everybody else will too So we don't have to crowd so we don't have to crowd the fucking gate Right you don't have to zip in through the priority boarding even though you don't have a priority pass, which I will confess I do do I can and I know that about you and I know that about you. So that's what I That was what my feeling was because it Um I want To me like that Getting people back to a place where they believe in that vision for America, updated, of course, is I think our larger project So what were the ex presidents saying about Donald Trump? I mean, I can't imagine the conversations that were going on So I didn't First of all did I didn't they were by the way, like behind glass on the stage. Did you see Did you see the the the The moment where after it was over, Joe Biden went to the podium I did not I did not see the I did not see the moment. please explain So The event ends It was Awesome. It was long. it was almost three hours Bano, Bruce Springsteen, Stevie Wonder a bunch of great performances. I'm forgetting Legends, even as I'm talking about it. Christina Auilera M And then at the very end, and by the way, Michelle gave an incredible speech, incredible speech, Brockichelle, I saw Michelle's speech and I love the fact that she referenced the fact that her husband got the Nobel P prize. Yeah U And then it all ended. And then everybody looked up and Joe Biden walked up to the podium and it was the What's he doing up there and I think he was just talking to people and waving at people, but there was this sort of like, I don't know, this tragic irony of the whole thing. Uh and like Jill came back and like walked him off. And wasas it as if he thought he was still president? No, no, no. I think it was I don't know what it was. It was just a little bit off. It was a little bit strange. I think he wanted to wave at people. I think he wanted his moment to see everybody Dave Weigl is a great reporter. He pointed this out, which is Joe Biden He didn't get convention in twenty twenty because of the pandemic Mhm his inaugural haul cast over it by the insurrection By the time his next convention rolls around, Kamala is the nominee and he doesn't get a speaking spot till late in the night and was seen as somebody that people didn't want to hear from. Even though he was policy had a great, many achievements. He was a successful Democratic president. He played his hand on domestic policy as well as any president could. I genuinely believe that. I'm very critical of Joe Biden for his decision to run Part of he deserves that credit And then, you know, you know, he's an older person. he's not He's not He's not in grail and so he's also You know, at the library opening for the two term successful Barack Obama administration, he knows he's not seen as a successful president right now. And he may not be at a library like this where he's celebrated in the same way. So I just had up like a I had up a sad feeling about Joe Biden in that moment. But on the whole, it was just a I spent most of my time with all of the people I worked with. when I was in the White House and seeing people I hadn't seen in a decade seeeeing all the fellow White House speechwriters. So all the people who've gone off made a ton of money inch, then So you know, the writers have done a lot of writing. I didn't see I don't know who made money in tech. and if they made money in tech, good for them h But it was, you know, the I love speech writing and I do it anymore, obviously, but I believe in it as a craft and I was very fortunate because two thousand seven, two thousand eight, Hillary Clinton, B Back Obama primary wasas this slob? And it was a great training ground for a bunch of great people in both campaigns U And a lot of the great speechwriters that came out of that are still doing a lot of the speechwriting in democratic politics But it's just interesting to be around beach wriding at a time when you're hearing about AI when you see a lot of just drek out there And then you see like Barack Obama give a great speech. You see Michelle Obama give a great speech. And then you see out there that like John Ossoff is actually doing these great speeches. And it was fun to just be with kind of writers in Democratic politics from a time before Trump. when we cared about every word and made sure they were accurate and sent them to a research department in case they were there was a problem in the remarks, right? Like just it was it was fun to sit in that time when there was when people at the White House took their jobs really seriously and you knew that the person at the very top took it more seriously than anybody. Well, and the idea that we have a president now who has no idea what he's going to say. He surprises himself when he speaks. He has no sense of, I think what's going to tumble out of his mouth next and also When it doesn't, as you said earlier, make any sense and it's incoherent, he puts it down to the weave. He's already branded it as the Trump weave. I didn't think the pain from the shhinglles rash would affect simple everyday tasks like bathing, getting dressed, or even walking around I was wrong Though not everyone at risk will develop it, ninety nine percent of people over the age of fifty already have the virus that cause of shingles, and it could reactivate at anytime. I developed it and the blistering rash lasted for weeks Don't learn the hard way like I did Talk to your doctor or pharmacist today. spponsored by GSK. So So John do you want to write for now? Who do you see as the big democratic hopefuls There's I don't, I don't know I like to me, the who is the right person? They are going to be the person that emerges from the big contentious primary that we're about to have And that primary will be the be the kiln person out of because you know, a lot of I think the tension right now in the Democratic Party and a lot of the the the kind of brittle nature of the debate is in part because we just didn't have a big primary in twenty twenty four And primaries are where we don't resolve our differences, but we hash them out and we we fight our big battles and then in the act of coming together, somebody will emerge, right? Joe Biden emerges from that primary in twenty twenty and then he extends a hand to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and the leftft. and they find a way to work together. By the way, another another I want to credit Joe Biden that that that was a remarkable Excellent sort of model of what it means to be a leader of a big movement because he brought Bernie Sanders in, he brought Elizabeth Warren and, he brought in Lena Khan, He listened to the part of his his support that wanted a more robust progressive, engaged Democratic administration when it came to the economy and he really tried to listen and adapt as someone who was a real moderate his whole career. he really tried to listen to those to those people. and I think it really mattered. And so I want that to happen here, right? Like whether it's, you know, you have Pritzker and Osso, if you have Josh Shapiro, you have a bunch of other people that may run and they'll be, I think someone that carries the mantle of the left. that maybe that's AOC, maybe that's somebody else And then we'll have the big debate about the direction the party should go. And then whatever comes of that, it'll be the obligation of those leaders. and by the way, the supporters to come together and uh, like put pressure on whoever is that person to to to uh, uh to listen to the parts of the base that maybe didn't get their candidate, but also come together and do what it takes to win. And like Who's the right person to do that? I don't know So I just came back from Can Lion, the big advertising festival in the south of France and I was sitting with What a life you have life life. I have hustling for priority boarding. I'm crushed that you said you knew I did that. That's very. I'm sorry. I didn't. I did U But I was sitting at a one dinner next to a very prominent Democratic donor. And he said that he thought the way for the Democrats to win now. And this was a man who was a big supporter of Joe Biden, big supporter of Biden professional politician was not going to work, that they didn't have anybody that was going to be able to really get their arms around the party, and that they should go for someone who was well known, famous celebrity could match Trump's celebrity, although may not be running, well let's assume he's not running. So he was thinking of someone like Peyton Manning, The two names he put forward were Peyton Manning And Doug McMillan, who was CEO of Walmart, famous, you know, very competent managerial CEO of Walwart. And I just I wondered if there are any of those I mean, he really is a prominent donor in the party. So I'm curious about whether or not there are other conversations going on that you've heard or what you think about that idea professional politicians just don't appeal to people anymore and the sort of shink in the armor that Trump had was, I'm not a politician. I'm going to tell it like it is. I'm not going to behave like a regular president So you know There all A lot of people wantna cut the Gordian knot, right? They want to find this one weird trick for winning And so oh, people don't like politicians. So maybe we run someone who's not a politician. It's not a bad idea. I think if somebody who's an incredibly successful executive who has a lot to offer as a manager and by the way, can demonstrate like genuine progressive leadership as a corporate leader, right? if they were pro union. they to did right by their people. like I'm not against that on its face. giveive it a shot. getet in the race Uh being said My question would be about a donor at in the south of France How What was the kind of plane that that person took to get there? And when was the last time that person was in a grocery store I can assure you it was a private plane. I can assure you it was a private plane. Here's my thing I don't I I think everybody should share their views, but people that are saying Oh here's how, here's what's going to really work. Here's what we need to do to win. Here's what's going to appeal to people. If they haven't been to a grocery store or walk through a metal detector at a major airport in say a decade I'm a little bit suspicious that they're not getting a lot of their ideas from the internet. people Are people frustrated by u politicians Yes, it's a little bit difficult to tease out what's going on with the Democratic Party right now when we You know, Joe Biden won U then Kamala has this hundred day sprint. She doesn't succeed. Barack Obama wins wise, what are people going to want after Donald Trump is off the scene? Maybe it will be someone more traditional. Maybe it will be someone more stable. Maybe it will be someone a little bit boring and kind who dots their T's and crosses their Rs and maybe sounds a little bit studied, sounds a little bit rehearse because you know what? That's kind of safe I don't know if that's right But my view of it is Nobody knows get in it like getet in the ring and and be part of the fight. I will say one thing I will say about all of this is personally. I'm not really interested in somebody riding in on a horse in twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight If you weren't here in twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six Speaking out about what Donald Trump was doing. you kept your head down st up every once in a long while to say something. Uh If I don't know right now, the kind of fight you're willing to fight against this version of the Republican partarty. I'm not really that interested in you leading this party into the next election because we're in a knockdown dragout fight. And so so if somebody wants to be the person that represents Democrats in the fight against rising authoritarianism, they got to be there doing it all along the way because because it's I think morally right It's because the kind of person that should be leading the Democratic Party is so upset and angry and motivated that they couldn't stop themselves from being out there that they would never want to not say what they're feeling because they believe so strongly that we could be doing better than how we're doing. So anybody who's out there strategizing while keeping their mouth shut, like, you know what? at Thanks, but no thanks. That's how I feel about it. That's my personal view. That's my personal view. That doesn't mean that person couldn't Maybe others feel differently. That's how I feel about it Yeah, okay How do you feel about the progressive wing as we saw in New York this week?am Danni's three candidates that he endorsed swept the board, moderates out, Is that a sign of something larger in the party, do you think? Or do you think it's just about him and about New York So I think I think like it's I think just to introduce a little nuance, right? Th those candidates that lost wouldn't call themselves Marates. Dan Goldman was certainly too more towards the center on Israel than Brad Lander. Espiot wouldn't call himself a moderate. probably caught off guard by the fact that suddenly he's being seen as a moderate, right? so just Dang Goldman just to pushback though Dang Goldman was my congressman. I mean, I think he wanted the progressive voters. He wanted he could see the way things were going, but he felt like a moderate. Yeah, before my Medicare for all, take your point. It's somewhere. I'm just saying I think it's I take your point. All I'm getting at is I think the endorsements really mattered, right? I think Mam Dani has inspired a lot of people and is popular, especially among Democrats H his voice really matters. What does it mean when three Democratic socialists win and three of the most liberal districts in the country or uh three left candidates, uh when I Does that mean Josh Shapiro isn't one of the most popular governors in the country? No Uh, does that mean he represents the Democratic Party any less or Abigail Spamberurger or Slockin or or you know that Sherared Brown doesn't represent the Democratic Party in his race in Ohio as a kind of more kind of old school Democratic pul on the economy, I don't think so Uh We're a big fractious. diverse coalition that's annoying to some people. The reason it's hard to have a coalition like that. The reason right wing movements, authoritarian movements are often able to succeed is because there are real important moral differences inside of a pro deemocratic coalition. I think some of the things that Aila Chevalier have said are terrible. I'm glad she's walked some of them back. in the same way I was glad people gave Graham Platinner the space to walk back some of the things he said I think people should be afforded afforded the chance to explain themselves, but also people don't have to like everyveryone that's in part of this coalition and they don't have to agree it. They can be really critical. Josh Shapiro was asked about it, and I thought what he said was right. He said, I have strong differences. It's not my district. you know. He doesn't have to Republicans want to make us own what everyone else says They want to make everyone responsible for everyone, but you don't have to be. We don't have to accept that. James Carvill doesn't have to go out there and say we need a schism in the party because three socialist w and because a socialist won in New York City. I don't think that changes what John Ossof represents or Kamala Harris represents. So A That's where I see it. and So my my feeling about it w quick points about this. One If establishment leadership is upset. Democratic socialists are winning because they' view some of the things they said as unacceptable I would ask why the voters found your candidate even more unacceptable I think it's worth asking that question. From the other side.t canan I just point out though that is this about the way that the primaries are structured, so that initially they brought the primaries forward in New York from the fall where they used to be to the summer June in Act with the goal of protecting the establishment, and in fact it's had the opposite impact that you've got a small group that get people out to the vote. I mean, most people don't even know there's a primary going on in you. That may be the case, but boy, wouldn't it be nice if Democratic The Democratic partarty had a enthusiastic base of support that was ready to show up all the time. Right? Like Wh where right? L, shouldn't there be, you know, there it wasn't always the case that that that you know, again Barack Obama, ninety six percent approval rating. He' not a far left c but he was ideologically unifying and inspiring to people. So maybe that's the case, but it doesn't change the problem onn the other side of it, right? U uh I'm not a democratic socialist U, But I think they've done something really impressive in New York. They've really figured out how to build power, but and how have they done it? Well, it's by fighting Democrats as it should be, right? They're they're ins they're they're a faction inside the broad left coalition, but I do think an organization that is instinctively built to fight Democrats as it gains more sway, needs to grow into being part of the fight with Democrats against Republicans. And that's really important too. Part of that is about coming together and unifying, which by the way, I think people like AOC and Bernie Sanders have been extraordinarily responsible and good about But it's also about knowing that you know what? that you should speak your mind and if you're further to left than a modate in Ohio, that's not your problem. You should speak your mind and say what you believe. That's politics. But also you should know that your words will be taken out of context by Fox News. That's not fair, but that's life. And so everyone, I think has, I think, an obligation be good members of this coalition. that applies to I think centrist leaders who told everyone to vote blue no matter who, but are now complaining that a socialist one. That applies to, I think people on the left that have a bit more fun attacking Democrats because of the narcissism of small differences the narcissism of small differences. All right, so we're coming up for july the fourth the end of the week, what are you planning to do? Are you going to the state fair? Are you going to go and reflect in the reflecting pool Not a lot of reflecting going on the reflecting pool. look, I'm gonna to go see fireworks here in beautiful California U one of the two greatest states in the country I'll be here in California, a state with Um H Beautiful beaches and as of today, our warehouse fire has been extinguished so we'll celebrate that D So the air is the air is free to breathe. it's certainly getting better. Um, but u Yeah, the It's such a bummer. you know So so There was the Congress created something called America two hundred fifty. And I was a bipartisan group to help figure out what the events were going to be around the fourth. then creates his own competing group called Freedom two hundred fifty and politicizes America's Independence Day, our two hundred fiftieth And All right Again, like we'll look at all the things Trump is doing, right? The The fact that he gives a partisan speech, that his his secretary of Transportation calls the musicians who canceled libtards Great that he's politicized the whole thing and made him about made it about him and that stinks But I do think it's worth taking a moment to say, wow, like Okay, these are all the ways in which Trump has has made this about him and made it made it uh worse What about the alarm that's not going off? about how great it could have been to have literally any other president at this moment to have a big unifying patriotic event that would have been across the whole country. You know, that organization, America two hundred fifty is still doing events. They're just smaller. They're not, you know, you just don't hear that much about them H What a great shame it is that we have this a kind of depraved person in charge. I don't think like if George W. Bush were president right now, I think some aspects of what they would have done for America's two hundred fifteth would have probably annoyed me. They would like a little bit of politics would have gotten in there. By the way, I think if Barack Obama president did America two hundred fifty, there would be parts of it that annoyed Republicans, but you would know that they would take the responsibility of representing the whole country seriously. to understood that this wasn't just about them or their political prerogatives that it's a rare moment where you could have actually had Beautiful American patriotic celebration. I'll be cringe and say that I'm sad that we don't get to have that. But instead we have this ridiculous incompetent boob. The ferris wheel isn't working. The reflecting pool is green the ice cream is melting. Nobody's showing up. States feel like they should cancel and they're right to do so. Nobody wants to be associated with this guy and it's just a big bummer, the u in I was thinking about the feris wheel in the the Chicago State fair a hundred some odd years ago more. They built the first ferris wheel. Ferris built the wheel. And it was a marvel, right? It was this beautiful, amazing thing. People could not believe that this giant structure moved. We set out to have World's Fair and we were going to build something that rivaled the Eiffel Tower. and then it happened. they built a moving a moving Eiffel toower in the middle of Chicago and it was a marvel. The whole world got to see it. It said, look at what America iss going to be. Oh, you Europeans think of us as some backwater full of hicks. We're about to eat your lunch. We're going buildings that touch the sky. We're going to be the greatest country in the world. And then we did it. And now we have this fucking maniac moron in charge, erecting a two bit ferris wheel on an empty national mall. and it is It is making me really mad and sad, honestly And I know it's just a party and we got bigger fish to fry, but I do think it's okay to take a moment and say, you know what? L this is a dark moment and it is a shame that we have fallen so low that this is what it would look like to forever for how we marked an important milestone in the history of the country That's where I'm at And I hope they fix the pool Wow John love it. That was fantastic. John love it. Well. Have fun at your fireworks in I willifornia. I will And I will tell you that the The Eiffel Tower in Paris, where I am right now is closed because the heat is so strong. They will people go up there And by the way, Europeans stick their nose up at us. How about you get some air conditioning? Yeah please get some air conditioning. All right?' get air conditioning. It's a disaster. It's a disaster. So do you have a favorite firework Do you have a favorite firework I don't have vibrid firewor, but I'm a sucker for the finale. I love the moment where it's like, let's let it rip Let's let a rip I love it All right Well, have fun at your July the fourth and I hope that you will come back on the podcast soon Thanks for having me. we' love to Good to see him I love hearing from John Loveittt. hisis passion just comes through and every generation has its own version of America. America is always changing. I guess the question is can we carry on writing it together Well, enjoy your fireworks wherever you're having them. We'll be back with David Rothkop tomorrow bringing fireworks all on his own. I think his favourite firework is probably the Roman candle. That's what I'm guessing. anyyway. And if you have been, thank you for joining us, big thanks to our production team. Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Paser, Heather Posaro, and Neil Rosenhouse. 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