Nigel Farage and Reform Party Strategy

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Tune in on TEedTalks Daily, wherever you listen to podcasts ACast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere Aast. com Hey Prime members. You can listen to this show ad free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today It's been another joke of a week for the Labour Party, so who better to talk us through the political chaos than comedian Jeff Norcott? He gives us his best impression of Andy Burnham, tells us why Kemmy is always trying to outdo herself and has some advice for Kia Starmer on making his jokes from the dispatch box land a hundred times better Welcome to the Daily Tea with me, Camilla Tomini, and me Tim Stanley Tim, it's fun Friday It's funund dayay We're going to be calling this the relaxing entry into the weekend that we need after a very taxing political weeknd. do a long weekend, Bank holiday Monday. God, I know. I forgot about that. fourour day week next week. I know. The unions will be delighted. Jeff Norcot's in the house. Hello, Yes. Looking Fin and respectacable. I mean Finn is really stretching. And you're looking buff, Jeff. Less big than once was, but yeah, I mean it wouldn't be good for the brand to let the brand to let out why, but it's been a bit of Thai chi. I hear this. This is amazing The three bes Buff, bearded, bespectacled. Yes. This is like a midlife glow up, frankly, Jeff. Thankks for lot l saying turn brown the f bees. Yes. You are cont tanned as well. All I do is I tend to go for my walk when the sun's up. Just to get a bit of colour. That's all it is. I mean maybe I should be fores Blkesw with Dad Bods I could be like an influencer Yeah. A Jeff bood. or a Timpod. We're going to have a little ferret through what's been going on for the last seven days because frankly It's bad for the country, but There's humor to be found in it, Jeff Well, when we're in the game that we are I mean, I remember Labour got in, I was sort, you know, even I bought into that thing of maybe you know, politics well quietly on our lives and it didn't, thank God. And then you kind of go, right, we've got the plotline seown up for the next three years because you got burn him. then once he gets in, there'll be the scrutiny of the new leader. Oce that's over, then we'll be heading to an election. So it's good for us, bad for the nation Michael Deon was saying the other day that he's hoping that labour beats Tory the poor Michael Dacon was saying the other day that he hopes that the Labour Party beats the Tory record on the number of prime ministers. Yeah. It's not out of the question, is It shouldn't be a competition, but I think it might be one of the few achievements they will have in government. Yeah is that they can finish saying we were more chaotic. the Tys they' never really committed. you know. I mean one thing I would say about the leadghip crisis with the Tys when there is a coup, they just do one between the eyes and it's done with a few days. This they talk about the Tys psychorama. There's nothing more psycho or dramatic than a bloke Wh's in power and there might be a leadership challenge and he kind of can't leave and there's a bloke basically already with his wife and Creasite in his defence.. It's very distbing. Yeah, the Tory is stabbed not just in the back but in the face. whereereas the Labour Party just let them bleed out over the course of months. last week we discovered Labour has rules. The Tory Party has no rules It's just they all disappear into a room and the one that leaves one Whereas the Labour Party, you have to have ten percent of the constituency partarty's support and you need to have eighty two MPs. is Bizarre. proceduralism gone mad. but I mean, you know, And Andy Burnham. I was trying to think, you know, because you need to get ahead of it comedically for who might be the prime Minister next? And I just sort of think It's just Andy Burnham.'s just' Andy Burnham and that's all he is.? Is' Andy Burnham just being Andy? Be really he's not he says he's not going to change the fiscal rules, right? Can't do anything quantitatively that different So the main thing he's offering is that he's just Andandy Burnd. Yeah. you're just's a lad gol running by an a oldll. That's all it is' Andy Burn. So it's st. It's starma two point zero. with a bit of personality, that's literally it is a lick of paint on probably the same thing. And you know what? might that might be enough. If you look at that more in common poll that has laborour suddenly up to thirty percent, which seems a bit topy to me It might be en That's the poll that suggests that if Berham was in charge of the party, he'd be three points ahead of reform. Yeah, reform's still holding solid on twenty seven Tories just resolutely around seventeen to twenty percent. It's really greens that are going to suffer the most Well if the greens are going to suffer the most, why have we got all of these candidates leaning into Pelenskyism We've had streeting now, the so called righty in the race talking about wealth taxes We've got both of them H and Burnham talking about reversing the referendum. They're all doubling down on net zero because Ed Milliband has got something to do with all of these future administrations apparently. We don't know why. The guy' a political failure at the end of day day. Because they're not interested in your vote, Milla. No They're interested in the vote of whoever is mad enough to be a member of the Labour Party in twenty twenty six Yes. And that's the thing with leadership elections, you switch from caring about how the country is run caring about what the party thinks. But then I spoke to an ardent Lty this morning who I used to play football with. She's a big fan of this podcast because she wants to know what we thinksoger Moo would say. And she'll be listening she knows who she is. I won't invade her privacy. And she said, you know, I like Shibana, but none of the birds are at the races. Well, yeah, the Labour Bat benches and membership are on a collision course with reality at some point and everything that they have to do, they don't want to do. So there is still a chance of this sovereign everyone's saying that they've got to cut welfare spendit. They all kind of know that they want to cut welfare spendit. It's just that they really, really don't want to.. And their desire, it's where you know where the right sometimes gives itself too much congratulation for being pragmatic and responsible and doing the hard thing rather than the easy thing There's no appetite whatsoever to do this. They've had a former defense chief do a review and say this is exactly what you've got to do. And then they've go, well you know. Hang on a minute, we have to actually spend the money. We've pledged to spend. No, thank you very much. Well you a guy had a job to do the review because he used to be the defense mininter. What was he Did he work at UN? I can't remember his name Robertson, right? Yes. George Robintson. Geor R. you essentially said this guy, he's the one. He's got all the knowledge And that's why we've got him on the case and then he just gave the wrong answer and they're like, well, you know, weren't that good. was he? when did they last have a successful bombing campaign? So at some point, but I think it will be sadly again the markets that push them into that, but you know, you can't be an hock to them You you can't be I'm fas by this personality point because Westminster tries to set the taste standard for the rest of the country like Versailles. this is what we think you all want. And okay, there are a lot of people who do want a boring man from Manchester I don't I don't know what I want instead, whether it's something between Quentin Crisp and Freddy Starles Hitler. I don't know what is I'm looking for. That's quite spectular. Yeah, I I'm very broad minded. You said you want hang on a minute. We know what you want as a sketch writer. You want Angela Rayner? I want Angela Rayner, of course. I want the funniest most entertaining person and what I find strange is all these people who work for magazines There's always the magazine writers who try to set this taste standard for what people or want is boring Andy because they want boring. But I don't think' being portrayed as boring. Compared to Starmer, this guy is like, you know an MC a really interesting event I see because of where I come from, I thought you were going to say drum and bass there, but I think you meant something a bit different No, I meant something like master ceremony hamer which again, I I would prefer. Well. He got into some kind of criminalhavior. Yeah, I don't think that's the right reference point that this Yeah. take my you take my point you take my point. The Prime Minister is the most visible public role beneath King Westminster gets to decide who that person is because it's all internal now And Westminster is dominated by mad boring people. They live on that strange cusp of being both insane and really dull. Yes. And they get to choose who it is we're all fascinated by. and I'm being told by the political people, I'm fascinated. I'm absolutely compelled by Andy Berham. and I look at him and think No, I'm not. No he's not that interesting. What he is is definitively Northern H name sound Burnham sounds like a suburb of bor West Burnham and the name Andy Burnham, you almost become a bit more normn as you say his name. you know, West Street in that's quite a working class. I mean, West Street is a legitimately working class background. you know West Street in does sound like the hardest lad in year ten well he not that. I'm not sure he was. So it's a It's like a face that resembles a giant man baby. A giant man. It's like I gotta say Straighting skincare How much moisturizer. It's an incredibly smooth face, I mean Youre an absolute cow in the press gallery compet. I don't know if I want to. Yeah He looks. I suppose's what he does have and this' why a lot of the Gournos like him. Even you guys because he can deal with you guys, Cy. if you ask him just about a challenging question, he'll give you an answer that suggests he's listened to the question he's trying to respond to. He will dance Yeah, he will die. Don' but I just think it's just being a human in the moment. We're so used to people not being able to react to what's being said and trying to Goss over things because in a way that's so patronizing to the public like as you're not going to notice that the question went unanswered. So I think what Wes has is with the journalistic class, why a lot of us call him Wes is because he is sort of personable but I just don't know if the public are aware of any of that yet and certainly labour membership. He represents exactly what they don't want to face. Yeah or he did I mean, I was at the spectator Party not that long ago and he made a joke about being the first right wing person to have ever presented it. and he. Oh yeah, the parliamentary award. And are you off later. There's wealth taxes, there's the EU.ting you know where they stand on the Westm's the thing because that is our consensus. But the public hasn't encountered the m. The public literally probably doesn't know who he is And they will care even less now that he's an ex minister. But it always irritates me about Westminster how we go around with these shorthand understandings of who people are and what they stand for, as though the rest of the country is thinking. Yeah, I quite like Wes because he belongs to that blue labour tradition No one thinks like that? No, they don't. They just look at him and make a judgment on how he looks and sounds when they first encounter him. But also, the portrayal of the politics we have today This idea that Starmer, Soviet comrade Kir, who has this week flirted along with the Chancellor with price caps on supermarket food, who is talking about now importing Russian oil and gas and having sanctions on UK oil and gas from the North Sea and is flirting with all the kind of tenets of socialism. I've never understood this mis portrayal of him as somebody on the right. He's not on the right. Well he served under Corby. Comared to Corbyn, he is a bit on the right, but then frankly so is anybody. H twenty twenty leadeadership launch video It was literally like something out of the nineteen seventies. It was reheated Corbidism. It was Cbism. And was always really right wing, No, he isn't. It was just Corbidism without being a guy that had attended a Hammas event. You know, that was a big part of the pie. Corbwardism in a better suit. But then equally like once we got to know him, he seemed like the sort A nineties Ty MP for West Iceland. Everything about how he looked, how he sounded. I mean, the thing is Kist Stomber does have the backstory, by God, don't we know it, but it's a vibe. I know vibe is overused in politics. This is what Tim's been saying We just people don't feel that. Where I think with Andy Burnham, the story and the vibe match up. I think with West Streeting, his voice has become a bit more RP over the years Alie Burnam possibly is the best if you're looking for that man of the people thing. I think he's got the best distillation of those two things. Yes. Kirstim has always suffered A from being from Surrey which has no sense of place or identity whatsoever. You're not allowed to be proud to be from Sury. There's very little to be proud of. I mean, what are you proud of? East Grinstead? I think this is harsh. just concentration of scientologists. Epsom races O be proud of. That's true. That's true. I mean I'm from West Kent next door, but you know, I know that part of the world and it just doesn't have that sense of clorness. why you're a snob about it because you're thearden of England. And the second problem I looking over the fence into Surrey. And the second problem he has is that he and I think this in some ways isn't likable about him Looks like it's from the nineteen forties Like he' a labour minister for Paperclips from nineteen forty seven, and not just in the look, but actually the color of him Because as time has gone by, He's physically become monochrome. Yes, the head has just g silver, the face has gone white and even if he's standing in a very colorful place He looks like he's personally in black and white. He' labour' John Major. but they a fitting image a little bit. They're all trait in the att just walking around in front of cameras. It happens to them. If you look what's happened to Blaair over the years Rishy Sunakin it manages to still seem like a small boy but a very aged boy at the same And that kind of like streak Yeah exactly got a gry streak very L trust didn't really have long enough for it to have any impact at all. I mean in a way you politics has become a bit you something I talk about in my podcast what most people think, which is less informal than you guys, but Ill just go for the jokes because I see politics somewhere between sport and entertainment. You know, since I realized, particularly during COVID that no one could do anything particularly different I've just got well, I might as well just enjoy this, you know? You might as well have the laugh. And I think that politicians a bit like comics, it's that thing of can they say who you are in two words? You know, It's the working class tourory guy, you know, it's the kind of Canadian comic that roasts celebrities, you know, everyveryone needs that. And I was interested this week that Kemmy Baden I thought she had a challenge in PMQs because she's sort of following herself now She's had a run of great clips and it was almost like she was getting up going How can I get another How can I Kemy Kemmy And when you've had Nicki Minj giving you props and Azalea Banks, it's almost sometimes a comedian, any comedian once's been going for a while, they might find themselves thinking what would Jeff Norcot think? which is horrifically narcissistic third person think. But the moment you do that, you're away from what made it good. She did find a stride in PMQs this week Just at the beginning, she seems to be trying to work out what does Kemy Badenk do this week because she's on a hot streak But I don't think you can force aran. Ar ran should be an organic thing. She did have something to get her teeth into and she got there. But I think Kemy's problem is that she is the engineer. She wasn't anyone who was ever in the drama club at school And I think actually she has she performs better when she does improvise. when she has the asides, like for instance, the classic line to West Streeting, just do your job.. You know that came, I don't think she had that written down. I think obviously there are Tories in the background prepping her for PMQs on a Tuesday night into Wednesday morning, preparing lines for her When she's a bit more fast and loose with her rhetoric That's when she lands the blows because she is making, I mean, Tim and I had a funny conversation about the invention of the word processology to describe Starmer's administration. and it was a good one. And he then embraced it, not understanding that she was making a joke. think In a way, she is bringing out the worst in him him manplaining, him being patronising, him for refusing to answer the question, which has been increasingly infuriating. The speaker, Lindseay Hoyle But I agree like where does she take it from here? Are you a fan of hers, Jeff? likeike everybody else, There's a lot of people are angry with the government. So what she gets to be while the Torys of the official opposition is the spokesperson for that anger. That's a strong card to play. But again, like a comedy analogy, you get some comics that have great clips game as they call it, you know, They can do clips that almost go ir guaranteed. Some comics that translates to really big tour sales, some comics reallyirdly not at all. and you can't really explain why that is. for the Tories and for the Tories, there isn't yet a complete index between her success in the Cons and her success in clips. and polland, the polland has nudged up, but you don't see like a serious renaissance on the horizon. That is so true and watching her in Parliament. She's not nearly as good. as she seems on Telly. She clips up really well. clips really well, but the actual speeches are often too long and not terribly funny And one thing that saddens me is Parliament, as an arena is dying. People don't really talk to Parliament anymore. They have prescriripted speeches and pres sccripted gags and they're really performing. for how something will clip up Hey Prime members, you can listen to this show ad free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today Sometimes on my days off I like to listen to old parliamentary speeches. and I was listening to Michael Foote in nineteen eighty two when the Falklands War started. And I realized listening to this He's extemporizing This is a moment in history and he's probably got a few bullet points and he's just speaking And crucially he was speaking to the house, reading the house, whipping up the house, making the house laugh. No one does that anymore. Well social media doesn't do that, which is why she watches bad in the house because her jokes are not funny to MPs. And that line like, do your job Actually it doesn't get a lagh or even it's successful for a different reason. It's because it's a vibe. She's owned that person. It allows people to do the fire emojis. And I think she's uninhibited against her opponents in a way that a lot of people would like to be in real life. So she represents something that people like the idea of. You know her performance in the commons has started to figure among discussions with less politically engaged friends of mine. you know Yeah It's getting noticed. but what you see if you go in I don know social medans only one part of how politicians success is calibated, You into comments You see a lot of, well, I still never vote Tory but I like Kemmy. And what what it is is like, I hate labor, I hate starma, She's saying what I would like to say to them But that you know, they did the alternative King speech, which I think was a good thing, but that no one's cliing up And why would they, you know, like the public aren't going to sit there and go, well, fire emoji because of a creative new policy on freeing up innovation.. They need to find a way of translating that into broader success, but also telling us who the rest of her team are because Beyond a couple of old faces, no one knows who they are Mel Stride, I like. I think he's a clever bloke, but he is You know, like you talk about different eras. Yes. he feels like a slightly more charismatic version of Phil Hammond, you know? Yes. So so how do they suggest that they've got a team as such? Be you know, reform all the criticism they got for the free transansfers or the Bosmans. Yeah There's some recognizable faces there now. peopleeople that know what they're getting people. The toys just aren't close to having that's example of something does play better in the house Partly because he has that old fashioned Oxford Union style roll up roll up style. Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe I've come here today todaya here. Yes that's right.ere as I say just on parliamentary performance, There is a bit of a contradiction at play with Nigel Farraage, isn't there? Isn' it extraordinary that on one hand he's described as the best political operator stroke orator in the country. And yet his comments performances when he can do them, which are very few and far between, because frankly he's never there have historically been quite poor Well's got He doesn't get c, but even when he does get called, I mean, obviously he is the key candidate, the key victim of a lot of heckling from all sides But it's interesting, maybe this speaks to the fact that nobody's really watching Parliament as closely anymore, because politicians are providing the entertainment elsewhere. They're providing it in weird videos filmed on Clton Pier or in Robert Jo's case. Jemm M Collins to wecoming to Jemmac Collins, Well, thats another example, or in Gener's case, you know, jumping over tube barriers and all the rest of it. And so you get Farage doing all of the communicating Really outside of Westminster. But his good cms are when he's surrounded by friends, you know, He's much more relaxed in that situation He's got a rhythm, I think that people like when he goes up every third word and he sometimes bounces around like he's heading in imaginary football. that people kind of like that because it gets you on the treadmill of a conversation with him. But I do agree with you in the comments that he does because he can't hold Can it in the comments. And again, I think reform They're very clip based. So you know as Robert Genrick found out to his disadvantage, he tried to commit too hard to his speech about where were we and he got a drive bar for Libdem I mean, getting owned by a liibbdem is one of the worst things that happen to any politician. But he but yeah, for odds basically, I think reform MPs, they don't get called that often. So when they stand up, they're like, right, what's my clip? Often it's just twenty seconds of me getting shouted down, job done, you know, which' weirdly the labour politicians fall for every single time, you know. That's all they need to do is to seem Uh beyond the pale and the establishment. So yeah, they' mean I don't want to be like that person, you know growing up that used to talk about the old days of football. where all the good names, you know, where all the charismatic people. But I think In the same way that tennis sometimes has eras of great players four or five world class players. and then sometimes it has like Gorony Vanisovich. I think we're in Ivanisovich slash Stefan Eberg period. Wildcard Wimbled and Win. Yeah. No, I agree with you on that. Maybe the quality of candidate has definitely lowered since the glory days. and you can pick out people on the left and right. I mean you're talking about looking back at historic speeches because you're nostalgic about when oratory in Param it matters to be great. matter And and by the way, since the quality of oritory declined, It's not that I've tuned out, but I'm like you, Jeff, I regard politics now as light entertainment. It just amuses me. Yeah it's partly because there's no one in it. who I look at and think I would follow that man to the sound of the guns or that woman to the sound. Historically, have you followed absolutely woman. And I would have done. and even whoo would you have followed at the sound of the guns? Back in your leftty days This is going to embarrass myself if I say. Lfty days and then in your righty days. Well, Michael Foote or Tony Ben Yes, and in your wry days? In right wing days, who would I I don't know, I'm not right wing. Do I being on a telegraph podcast is heing the phrase follow to the sound of the gun. I know. Jeff, whoo would you follow to the sound of the gun? Well first all, I don'tactly know what it means, but I've got a sense got me to do with hunting. Well No ride to the sound of the guns, right? which is just me a partart for which means you just ride towards enemy fire. You're so're committed to the top. You're so committed to your officer. you just ride straight to gun. Obviously, this will sound a bit odd now, but originally the first time I voted conservative was because of David Cameron. I remember It was odd I was on the south bank and I saw him kind of like breezing past because he had a very breezy style.ot all. Call me Dave. At ease with stuff. And I thought, I just thought I'd like to cut that guy's jib. And then he started saying things about fixing the roof while the sun was shining. And I don't know, just ' where I was economically at that time, I was coming out of a period of debt. There were certain things that aligned to me. and I just thought and maybe it's my own kind of self hate and working class thing I've always sort of thought maybe a tall Ps bloke should be in charge, you know. And so I went quite a long way with the camera and thing. I didn't stay with it. But I mean, if that for me was a big kind of rubicant to cross, you know given my upbringing was to go, I think I am conservative. you know, certainly in the small state lean benefits, low taxation sort of sense of the word, and just realizing that about myself It was old DC that took me there Extraordinary. I, I know I sort slightly regret at saying it. Ron Pul. Ron Paul. There you. Not he's confused. takeake a bullet O aroundound, I'd take a bullet for run p. Mine's obviously pit the younger. We'll do that for another episode. you know like with comedy, all the thing that makes comedy work is if you speak to the people in front of you and you say what you're saying for them and comedy can sometimes be bad when people are speaking to people outside of the room The fact that they're doing it for clips means that they're not speaking to the audience. That's why it doesn't good, right? So when you you guys are there writing your sketches and observing them because it's just odd. This is odd. They're not in the room as such. They' already got their minds on a two minute clip. And I think that went before the sort of clip era of politics. and maybe even before there was TV cameras, it was a case of addressing roughly six hundred people and trying to win an argument. That's why I think it was quantifiably better because that's a much better way to approach public speaking. I know it sounds really obvious, but to try and address those that are directly in front of you.. But the sort of right wing fararrow and bald chart. From Turquoise Azure V. I mean, I do know he's just re. I do not I've heard' making out. I've heard of it, but what is it it sounds like It's a paint color chart. I thought it's like Oliver B with nice names like, you know, elephant's arse and, you know, fairy g. That's a good reference for Gags.'ll. Thank about. So on that color chart, on that paint chart of right wingism from your sort of teal stroked turquoise all your way through to your rooyal stroke Navy blue Where are you then, Jeff Norcot? Boringly socially liberal in the old way and economically right wing. And now at the beginning of the twel. colour is that these days? Tim, Can we Cameroian? Is it purple? we're doing? We're mixing a bit of red with a bit of blue. No, that's Cameron. Yeah that'sd. Cameron. So that l at me, you know, being a sort southeast Tory, that offer So you're not going far off That's not my that's not my thing. No. I'm sort of patiently waiting for the Conservative Party to realize that, you know It's about cut Well, I think they are realizing this is about cutting spending. I think the public would eventually want to hear that argument again You know, I didn't vote conservative in the last election. so it's not like a do you mind telling us who you did vote for? I vote for independent locally. Okay So was that a tactical thing or you just thought that? It was independent, was it? No. it was more based on local issues,? didn't I'd sp my ballot paper at a previous local election So I want to actually make a choice here. Okay I The local livedon didn't really float my boat. It doesnn't usually flat many people. Although they have got over seventy seats. I should stop denigrating. deniggrate away. They all agree. One thing I've learned from comedy is they just like being talked about, even if you're criticizing. in the conversations That's true. But sorry Je, just to go back to that So Was that in protest at the Conservatives having broken all their promises. I just didn't feel that you could reward the previous five years. No. Yeah. I thought everything that had happened A lot of it was to do COVID for me, you know, L I wasn't like full on. We shouldn't have done anything, but I felt like a lot of it went too far. I fel a lot of decisions that Boris made were because he bowed to political pressure rather than doing what he felt and knew to be right. You know, partarty gate offviousy wasn't fantastic but that wasn't the biggest issue with me. And then you know by the end of that, the state had increased taxation was going up go with all of the things originally and drew me to this party that don't feel true anymore. So Yeah, Well it wasn't for me look by the way, Rishy soonack, you know, I lot of timef, you know, I'm part of Richy revisionism If you look at the immigrationigures today, that's a lot changes that he made, you know, fair place the bottom of mood, but also it was set in motion by him But yeah, there's not many takers for the rishy revisionism Should we get on to Palansky? see that proves a point. Roman or Zack? Well, Roman broaderriies are discused for another day, and Zach has got his own controversies to deal with. The prrim Minister haven't made a very good joke this week When he said the very part he thinks he walks on water. he doesn't, he lives on water and avoids council tax. I personersonally overvewritten dad's had a lot of clauses in. The principle of joke. It's been funny,. Just take out some words, really? They think he walks on water. Well he lives on it. He doesn't pay any tax, you know, you just got to get to it a bit quicker. You see, that's the difference between parliamentary speaking which is necessarily florid Yeah. and I think it's a differe dream somebody who's naturally funny and then somebody like Starmer who obviously tells tragic dad jokes.. Starmer' the kind of guy who opens a cracker and thinks that the joke inside is hilarious. Although I thought his reaction to North Korea thing he said that brought have be breaking news. And then he almost got out a really good joke about the privileges committee. I could see his comedic brain just turning J ever so slowly and he almost got to that. But it was one of the first times with stared, you thought, well He wass reacting something he was posor so no one could have written that joke for him. And they reached version of Stopber where, you know, I saw it once on Sunday Brunch. You know they also saw always a really good broke I've just never seen it. Sow once on Sunday Brunch and I saw for about twenty seconds this week. Regarding Zach Blansky, you may recall in the Cameron era, there was a moment in twenty fifteen where Russell Brand was big Where is he now? And it turned out in an interview with Jeremy Paxsman that he doesn't vote Now, I feel there's been a moment like that with Zach Polansky O here is a man who wishes to be prrime Minister and to build literal eco communism in Britain. And it turns out doesnn't pay council tax, lives on the water Or if he's not on the water, he's living with a group of forty something in a two million pound man. Right. He's actually curiously disengaged. Yes, from his own society. Yes. I mean, can you be a party leader and not vote? U yeah, I mean, it being a comedian and not telling any gags, isn't it been now. Yeah, it's Aelsk. It's weird because he is Why good, you know, on the stump sort of thing. It's not bad. I mean we're talkking about a a very poor vintage, right? So what I mean is I think if he went up in a one to one debate about against Kir Stmer, he'd probably w the floor him. But just because he's reflexive and he's in the room. I do think that there's an element of sort of snake all about if you look at his political history, you know, look how far he's dragging the Green Party away from what it's supposed to be. It's an odd proposition really, isn't it? Yeah. It's almost like a Trojan horse for a bunch of other stuff, which underlines the less satisfactory labor, but that burden polling suggests that people don't need much of a push to go back the other way, maybe. But do we think that the loss of the so called Red Wall, particularly in a local sense at the elections on may seventh, to reform? makes it make sense for those vying to become the next Labour prime Minister. to be calling for the referendum to be reversed and to be calling for more Palanskyism? Probably yes becausecause because that isly you just just mentioned, which has Burnham three points ahead of reform The advantage that he suddenly gains does not really come from reform voters It comes from a collapse in green and liberal support. And this is John Curtis's argument what's actually going on is labour has been losing not because reform's been beating it, but because the centre lefte coalition's divided and Burnham knits it back together. And I also also think with the rejoiners. I've heard it I think it's interesting the debate. It's been the first Brexit chat we've had for a while politically I do you think that in the same way that some Brexiteers thought that it was an absolute silver bullet for all of our problems? know the moment we go we hold all the cardars and the German car industry will ride to our benefit. there's a bit of delusion there. I think the rejoin movement is beset by a bit of delusion now, where is they seem to think that it will solve problems that prexisted the referendum even being called, So somehow being back in the EU will suddenly getet these leather behind towns pull them up because go that started during the period that we were in the EU. It doesn't make any sense. So I do think I don't think it is the silver bullet that some rejoiners think is. I think it's a good hook, you know if you're in a leadership base well finally someone's saying it. But the timing of it as well. I mean, at the moment the EU is fracturing. We've got the prospect of the rise again of Leu Pen and the AFD. We've got Germany now saying, we'm not quite sure about Schengen Hungary and Norway having said, no we don't want to be involved in this anymore. It's like the timing to rejoin What could that look like? But you know it's crowd pleasing, isn't it? in a way? It's just saying something that people like to hear, but maybe deep down they know it's not feasible to have another referendum soon. And I don't think Rejoin would win personally because one of the big arguments and probably one of the most persuasive arguments of Rain was We'll never get a deal this good again, right? We did have certain exceptions and things might not have been enough, but we did have certain things that other countries didn't have But then you almost turn around to go Yeah, I agree. We won't. So the argument for going back the humiliation of going back under palpably worse terms. I think would turn the British public off. I think the margin might be even more decisive because you could say, or maybe there has been an economic here. It's not the disaster you predicted And having done that There are certain of our freedoms economically that we should actually put our effort into exploiting those rather than just going back in time under a worse deal. Facts of the matter, our exports are up and indeed Our growth as low as it is among the best in the eurozone. I think much of the country has moved on. I think P Brexit, there was always a small group of people who were fanatical about leaving the EU. and they got what they wanted. And now it feels as though it's switched to there's a small group of people who are fanatical about rejoining the EU. in the same way that some people used to turn up and drag the conversation back to metrics and imperial measurements and all things like that. I think there will always be for now on, a group of people who are show up to every recording of every political programe and say sh back and It's safely hypothetical, isn't it? Yes. But I don't think that you know some of the derelict retail units won't rejoin the EU, they're not going to reopen as pissories and laundry. I don't know what it is that they think particularly if you're talking about left behind towns, I don't think rejoining the EU is capable of solving the problem that they're identifying. Yeah. Also can I just express my frustration as a leaver that we have this situation going on with the lids on bottles? What? We can't uncrew them proomperly. What? Tethered lids Tethered lids. What that got to do with the EU? It's got everything to do with it because it's an EU regulation that you can't fully unscrew. You know this because I've seen you drinking no with people ag I get it all over me, but I didn't realise that came from the E. It's a hangover. Cookies are a hangover from the EU. I do like the new color in passportard. Comput cookies. Oh the new color of the it's a. can't sign this because this is what they'll say they we're all like all of the time. passassport colours. I agree you'll sayays to me. By the way, Farraage's passport when he took it to the polling R was ready I thought he would be the first to go out and get like my dad being a Brexiteer and a very proud Englishman