Controversial past comments from candidates

The telegraph It's the scandal to end all scandals. Nicolas Sturgeon's estrange husband admits to embezzling over four hundred grand from the SNP to pay for everything from a bread bin to a motor home. But now, Nicolas Sturgeon herself is under pressure to explain what she knew or didn't know about Peter Mur's Carasel of Goodies. Welcome to The Daily Ta with M Kim and Aatominy and meet him standing Tim, you're appropriately in Linen. I am. It's good to see. It's very Bride head. It's insanely hot. It's too hot. you Another Brexit failure. It's Brexit's fault. No. leave the EU and you get Spanish weather. makes no sense. Should you and I open a vineyard somewhere near your place? Down in the Garden of Indland. It's not actually Brexit's fault According to the C conservatives,' Rbertenereicksfolld. I love this. Conservatives pledge to reverse the Aircon ban As Britain swelters in record heat, the Cervatives point the finger at net zero building regulations banning aircOon devised by then Conservative Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick in twenty twenty one press release goes on to just say it's Genwick' fult forgetting I'm not sure that's the win the Conservative partarty thinks it is. Because that would be a conservative government failure involving Robert Genick. Also, Rob, it seems, is such a player in politics that he wrote all of Tory policy for the last ten years Yes He likes to distance himself from Tory policy and now he's got into a row by the way with his own comrade Zia Yf over deportation and Yusuf likes the Tories in his midst No no. I think I'd like to have them renditioned out of the party. There is tension there. Just out of interest. Are you a person who sleeps in a bed like with a fan blowing directly onto you or It's tricky, isn't it? Because on the one hand, I hate the heat. On the other hand, I hate the of the fan and the two. I'm finding that I'm waking up at about half five when the daylight suddenly pours in like a volcano. Sure. So I'm really struggling with sleep at. Well we had to have both windows. we've got like the bathroom window and our window to just have a free flow of air. but then it meant that there was a dawn chorus that woke me up.. Then I ey mask on that is basically strangling me just enough already. My dog, of course, I lie awake worrying about because I'm thinking is he burning up in there? Is he's sleeping with his legs in? He has his own little room But every time I go into the room, it's really cool But hes somehow got himself the coolest room in the house. Maybe you should get into his crate with him. There's still time. I tell you what It's getting hot for us, but it's getting hot for Nicola Sturgeon, isn' it? Well, not in Sotland A actuallyually, it's really cool in Scotland. Well someone offered me someone suggested I go up this week and I kind of wish I had done it. but possibly It's about twenty four up there at. If the train is run there's a story on the website suggesting that the trains have said no enough's enough. it's too hot, it's too hot to drive a train. Yes. And that's why we need to be giving them record breaking pay rises, according to Mick Lynch, who I interviewed last week. If you haven't caught it, do catch up it Very entertaining. Apparently when you mention mass migration, you are ergo, a racist and a bigot. But back to Peter Murrell of the SMP. So this is a bit of a shock, isn't it? It's been rumbling on for years and years and it's come to a head now that Murll, agge sixty one, has pleaded guilty to embezzlement and it's nearly half a million quid from the SMP. four hundred thousand three hundred ten per pounds and sixty five pence and being Scottish That's sixty five pence spes al. We will get letters. A topop cop. They're very careful with their pennies. There's nothing wrong with that. Indeed. Let's quote a top cop who said Merll had diverted the cash from the SMP to quotes, bankroll the lavish lifestyle he craved but could not afford He was first arrested in april twenty twenty three as part of Operation Branch for Ridiculous name. Isn't it? Why don't they have better names these Operations It makes me think of the day to day Operation Daisy Bird. Yes, exactly. Operation Spickenspan. That was the police Scotland probe into the funding and finances of the SMP. He was charged with embezzment one year later and now I think there were fears of a trial exposing all sorts of things now going to have one because he's pleaded guilty. A full narrative of facts will be heard in court when the case is called again on june the second. okay. So we get got a kind of quasi plic investigation or at least some findings because people were worried that without a trial we wouldn't find out more What did he buy? Grief Tim quite a list here. It's like a wedding list. Yes. It's like an aristocrat's wedding list. You know, when you go along and you're invited to go on the Fortnam Mason's website and start buying a teapot for four hundred quid and you're thinking oang on a minute. is there are there any spoons for twenty quids? The most famous thing, of course, was the Nisman and Bischoff motor homeome Yes, using one hundred twenty four thousand five hundred and fifty pounds of SNP funds. Which he famously parked outside his mother's house. Right, exactly. I mean, presumably there wasn't enough driveway space at the Sturgeon's. Right. So he just kept that out of view, strangely. So it's really the motor home, that's the famous one What really strikes me about the list is how many of the items on it are quite banal. Yes. So they include Joseph Joseph Bredbin Scks Bike tool kit. In fact, I think what we ought to do. is we ought to play the generation game. Okay. So what I mean would you prefer? What was the other chat called? Are you a Brucey M or are you the Id prefer Larry Grayson. Of course she shut that door. shut that door. You be Larry Grayson and I'll be a contestant, is that what you're proposing? Yeah, what I'm proposing is is I read you the list of items Right That Peter Murll bought. Yes. And then when I'm done, you tell me how many you can remember and you take home those items that you can recall.agine you'll require a shopping jrolly. Okay God, this is hard. It's hot. I've got to remember stuff. Okay, go on. Okay A motor home Coffee machine A telescope A manicure set a model helicopter Poacher set Board game Monopoly. A library ladder. A bottle opener A musical advent calendar Sherlock Holmes the compleomplete collection Gallway Crystal glasses an electric shaver A toolbox A Dyson lamp Este laundnder candles and a picnic haamp Okay, ready, Motor homeome, electric shaver, egg poacher, Sherlock home set U picnic haamper A Tolbox Estay laud or something or other.. U God, this is hard, this is hard. U somethinghing about a lamp that some lamps A pen, something of a pen. u prodrouces help. Can anyone remember anything I've been told they can't help A sure that's hard There's one more come on. I said shaver. Yeah. U Candle holders U just making stuff up now. Okay. What have I missed? Don't say Hagis. If you can make things up, don't say Hagis. Hagis. Te make. timee is up. I Mullopin t I know okay well done. No, you've got almost all of them. In fact, I lo because I' because it's so hot. I kind of lost track of what you hadven tot said. No, I know. But it was Este launda Candles, yes And you Gway crystal glasses I don't think crystal. comeome on.'s basic. But as I said, the striking thing is how they're both really big and really small. Yes. And a really good example of that is in january twenty twenty, he forked out for two Ppper and salt grinders from Lalique. cost him two thousand six hundred and eighteen pounds and sixteen pence. right? It is extraordinary. So that's insanely expensive. At the same time, He bought a copy of a book for twenty two pounds and four pence called Women hold up half the sky. Do you know who that book is by? Let me haard a guess Is it by his wife? by Nicolas Sturgeon? My God. whyy is she only holding up half the sky? bought I don't know, typical woman.. She's just doing the job Yeah half a job. can't be bothered to do the whole job. Stayed in the kid. They leave it up to the men.ry tryrying all this politics. They leave it up to the men hold the other half. Maybe if shen't trying to have it all. We've got a lot of things the whole sky. We've got so much. we've got rivers to dam, we've got Earth to till, and there we are having to help you hold up half the bloody sky This is so funny that he bought his estranged wife's book No now I've written books can you say I've written books. And my bookshelves are like a thousand copies of my own book. Yeah, it's so to sign one of your own books. You can even sign it for people. in fact, C I please have a signed copy of your book Gight On Hollywood. have a rare unsign. Sorry I'm just looking at Oak Library ladder for a grand. Yeah. And then where's the Oesy? Hang on a minute, let me just find it. Men's slouch pouch Oesy. The comfortable houseware was billed for seventy six quid. Yeah. Jeez. It's extraordinary, isn't it But he must have looked good for winter coats, five hundred and sixty pounds from Hilly Henson. Yes Oh, the world, as it is, inside the Obama White House. Right. And an antique look book embossing press, which allows you to personalize your home library. This one costs seventy one pounds and ninety nine pence. He also had fascism, a warning by Madeeline Albright Now now copy cost ten pounds nineteen. Now obviously all this is on Peter Morrl Yes. It's his responsibility. doesn't matter if you came home one day. And you found a motor home on the drive. Yes. You found your husband sitting inside wearing a new winter jacket with his embossing press., his crystal glasses., playing his new game of mononopolyes with a copy of your book on his lap, which you know you didn't give him. No. You might be asking questions, might't you? You might also be saying This salt and pepper cell is quite nice. Yes. Looks a bit luxe. No it costs two grand. Y. A good use of the household finances, you may be asking. You may ask. And we don't want to comment either way because who knows what's Nicolas Sturton did or did not ask, knew or did not know. But I know, from my own personal experience, if you come home And you know, like a partner is reading a new book. You go. You just say, What's the book? What's that book you're reading? Shall we read out Nicolas Sturgeon's not one but two statements in response We must. We must, I think Today the media is reporting details of items that my former husband has now admitted buying with SMP funds. By the way, they're in the process of divorcing, so he's estranged rather than ex at this stage I have seen questions raised about how I could not have known about this. to reiterate that I had no knowledge or suspicion whatsoever personal items had been purchased using SMP funds I was cleared of any wrongdoing after a lengthy and thorough investigation In relation to many of the items in question, for example, expensive watches and games consoles I was not aware of them having been purchased at all wasasn't her playing call of duty. I think we should clarify that right at least not at home. might have been playing it. in the Scottish Parliament Indeed London where she spends most of her time, it seems. No en. Indeed, in relation to the item of largest value, a camper van I was not aware of its existence until it featured in the police investigation in early twenty twenty three. Nor was it parked in our driveway, as has been claimed by some, yes, to be fair, it was parked in her mother in law's driveway. She also said in an Instagram story that she was angry, hurt, sad, and very distressed about the impact of his actions on family, friends and the SNP to be deceived and let down by a husband I loved and trusted has caused me acute pain. Why he acted as he did is and always will be beyond my comprehension. I'd like a bit more comprehension. She talks about comprehension. I'd like to comprehend precisely why she didn't know any of the. I would like to comprehend whether Nicola noticed or did not notice brand new dressing table and tea set that cost three thousand one hundred and ninety two pounds. Yes, I'd like to know that too. I'd like to know smeltable Lorder cancels. Yeah, I mean one possible answer is there was a power cut for several months. Yes. and she was staggering around the house Not knowing what it was she was bumping into. in a tartan dressing gown But literally I'm the candles thing. Like that's another thing within a house, isn't it? I mean, if I light a candle, which women tend to do, I mean, this is a male thing, presumably, but if I light a candle, then usually my husband starts making a huge fuss So. What's that god awful? You start coughing. And I'm like, this is the candle that I made you buy me at Christmas from the White compomany for a not inconsiderable sum. And he'll go bloody just it stinks. The whole house stinks. so it's like a scent in a home is something that you do notice Christmas must be very hard actually with Peter Murrell because what do you give the boy who has everything? Indeed, what do you buy him? Just a little badge with I've got everything written on it perhaps. So I think we probably do need to know more. We're not going to benefit from a full trial would be further investigated, although as Nicholas Sturgeon says she was the subject of a lengthy and thorough investigation And indeed, no wrongdoing was found on her behalf Shall we speak to somebody who is agitating for this to be looked at in rather more detail? The deputy leader of Scottish Labour, Jackie Bailey, joins us now. loveovely to see you, Jackie Tim and I have just been discussing in generation game format this extraordinary shopping list of Peter Murrells What's your reaction to what we've heard about his conduct in the last twenty four to forty eight hours? I mean, it is quite extraordinary, but this has been going on for years. And the police investigation along with the Crown Office has cost us millions of pounds and taken years before we actually had a day in court for Peter Morow Of course this court appearance was delayed until after the Scottish Parliament election, and many people are quite rightly asking questions about that because Peter Marram declaring himself guilty of embezzling four hundred thousand pounds from the SNP would have made headline news before the election and might well have made a difference But I think the thing that surprises everybody is the shopping list that you've described You know, everything from household goods to jewelry, shopping at Harrd's, Fortnan Masons, we're talking about high end shops that would be completely unaffordable to most ordinary people And what we have here is embezzlement on a grand scale Now there are lots of people asking questions about what the former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon knew. She, of course, was married to Peter Morrell, and this embezzlement was taking place under her nose both in the party and in her own home People are suggesting that there are questions that she needs to answer becausecause of course, she benefited from some of this activity with jewelry, makeup expensive pens. I mean, who on earth has ass salt and pepper milk worth two and a half thousand pounds. I mean, it's just extraordinary. And I think that's what is defying people's understanding of what happened and the scale of the fraud that has been visited on the SNP by the former chief executive Jackie, you suggest that the timing has been fortuitous for the SNP because this has come out after the elections. Fair enough, Had it come out before? it may well have had an impact The story was broadly known about for a long time The SNP has many things working against it in its record in Scotland Why despite the many years it's been in power, despite its tumbling reputation Why could you still not beat it? And why did they still do so well? in the recent elections Well, let me challenge the notion that they did well because actually their vote share dropped by ten percent This was a Scottish Parliament election where turnout was fifty three percent. so forty seven percent of the country didn't bother to come out and vote. and they lost six MSPs. It is the case that labour didn't do as well as we wanted to do It was undoubtedly in part due to the fact that the electorate here were unhappy with the UK Labour Government and unhappy with the Prime Minister. We've acknowledged that But equally there were faults in our campaign that we should have adjusted. But the reality is as long as you have constitutional division, that frames your politics, then the flaw for the SNP for those that believe in independence is always much higher. That said, if I was an independent supporter today, I would hesitate to donate to the SNP in any shape or form given that the money they previously donated was embezzled by the chief executive. Of course, the Chief executive, Peter Murum was appointed by none other than John Swweenney, the current first minister And both he and Nicholas Sturgeon, you know when the police started their investigation were both interviewed on television, saying there was nothing to see here, everything was fine with the accounts, and that turned out to be patently not true. So there are questions that need to be answered both by the former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon and the current one, John Swweeny. How could that happen, Jackie? Because now Peter Morrell has given a guilty plea We obviously won't have the forensic process that would have occurred in a trial picking through the evidence and trying to find out who knew what when, or indeed what they didn't know How could the system sort of coalesce to try and get further answers from both Nicolas Sturgeon and John Swweenney and any other associated parties. I think Parliament needs to consider its options, but equally, there are calls already for inquiries and questions requiring answers. So far We've not been satisfied with that. The press have been diligent in pursuing this. and of course, we couldn't talk about it in advance of the election whilst there were live proceedings in the courts. Now next week, there is a narrative that will be presented by both the Crown Office and the defeense. to try and explain and understand why Peter Murow did what he did, I think that following that people will consider what to do next. This is by no means the end of the story It's the beginning of trying to make the SNP which is known in Scotland for its scandal, its sleze and its secrecy. to finally have a bit of truth and honesty because not least It's not just the Scottish public deserve it, those individuals who donated money to the SMP deserve to have answers and I believe they should be compensated for the amount that they put in. But I keep coming back, Jackie, to my point that if this party is known for its scandal and its sleeze, why is it still outperforming you Put it another way Why is the case for the Union apparently so weak people are still supporting parties, either the SMP, which is tainted with scandal or the Green Party, which is run by lunatics. rather than coalescing around perfectly sane moderate mainstream parties such as yourself I think you'll find in constituencies across Scotland that did in fact happen in my own For example, which I have served in since nineteen ninety nine. There's a coalition of voters that has been built up that are actually anti the SMP and anti independence. The reality is that needs to happen in more constituencies across Scotland. But the truth is, as I said before, the SMP didn't do well. This is their lowest boot share in government for a long time And it's delivered six fewer MSPs And it's delivered a ten percent drop in their vote you know, on a fifty percent turnout I don't really think that's much of a mandate to be frank with you. No but youite people could do better. But Jackie, you didn't excite people to come out on your side. A low turnout is a vote of no confidence not just in the governing party but also in the opposition And I think what we were finding was people were scummered with politicians and with politics And this was a general kind of, you know, we don't like any of you. So I think that there is some merit in what you say that we all failed to excite them. But the reality is the stakes were genuinely high We are now about to debate this afternoon, whether to have a second independence referendum rather than focusing on the people's priorities of tackling the cost of living crisis or dealing with the NHS. You know That's the problem when you elect a nationalist government, they put their party before the country's interests. and that's what we're about to see this afternoon Kacki Bailey, deputy Leer of Scottish Labour. Thankk you for joining us on today's Daily teea Thank you. Coming up next, the latest from the historic B election at Makerfield Okay we have the full list of candidates for the Makerfield by election, which has been announced will take place on june eighteenth. obvious Andy Burnham. A Andy For Labour. Robert Kenyan for Reform. Michael Wynne Stanley for the Conservatives. Jake Austen for the Liberal Democrats. Sarah Wakefield for the Greens. Rebecca Shepd for Restore Britain. Alan Howling Lord Hope for the Monster Raving Looning Party. And Robert Powell who's running as an independent. It should be pointed out that the Green Party candidate is a replacement. So Sarah Wakefield is now running after their previous candidate. He had suggested that the Golders Green attacks the antiemitic taxs were a quotes false flag. So we once again had Greens in anti Jew shock and he announced that he was withdrawing hours after he was announced, citing personal reasons Yeah well his person they are very personal reasons They' personal reasons Unfortunately you can't run because you've been grotesquely inappropriate. So he's out of the race and now Sarah Wakefield is in. In fact, it's proving difficult in this day and age to find candidates who've not said things in the past which are either outrageous or contradict the party's current message Robert Kenyon. He is the plumber who's been nominated by reform and has been driving around the constituency with Nigel Farraage It turns out from old social media posts that he might not have supported Brexit, and he might in fact have been a fan of European freedom of movement.. He wrote at one point, So anyone who thinks I love Trump voted Brexit, read the Daily Mail, live in the nineteen fifties, a Tory and one hundred and three. is wrong. I'm none of the above Weirdly though, reform are now saying that Kenyan did vote for Brexit. A reform UK spokesman previously said Kenyan quotes voted leave in twenty sixteen and is a proud Brexiteer, unlike Andy Burnham who will drag the UK back into the EU by any means possible Although I'm not sure that's the sum total of Kenyan's worry. Well I have a feeling that those remarks about Brexit might be eclipsed By everything else he has said on social media.. The same account was also said to have made a series of sexist comments about women, including posts from twenty eleven and twenty twelve in which Kenyan said, I'm a sexist. sorry, but I am. Women can't ref, referee, drive or give directions. And they can only hold up half the sky. Other posts appeaar to have spoken about European women's bodies while saying that Englishwomen don't care and just walk around with their fat bellies in odd shapes pushing a pram at sixteen in their PJs. Yeah. He said one thing about female rugby players that he liked the way they handled their knockers So real Which will be that's fararagian language if' ever heard it. So in other words, Robert Kenyon is basically a bloke. Well, he's a very blokey bloke. about He's a very twenty eleven bloke. let's put it that way. Before we realized we weren't allowed to think these things This is what every man thought. Well hang on a minute. Can I just point out, I mean I don't mind a little bit of bance at the best of time. Yeah. Women can't ref Drive or give directions. Now forgive me in this little partnership ofice. Wh would you suggest Be honest. Y. be honest Who would you suggest between the pair of us? We both drive minnis? That's true. Who do you think drives it a little better Well, I certainly drive it a lot slower, Camilla. There's no law against acceleration, Tim Stanley. Rdline is a challenge, you know. But I am certain you can referee football better than me. and I did fail my driving test eight times before I passed. So you were eight times. Eight times before I passed. I passed my test in six weeks after I turned seventeen. I'm sure you did. So on directions, though, Yes, I'm pretty good at my. And also so would you also agree then that I could probably refere a football match a little better than you But how do you handle your knockers? I'm a great fan of handling knockers but is isn't the real issue. Is isn't the issue here, Especially when playing rugby. There's two explanations here One is that the new parties attract fringe candidates. Yes and bad candidates. And that's what the Tories and labour would have us believe. Although I'd remind you that in the distant past, West Streeting fantasized about pushing a female daily male journalist under a train. That was Joan Mre. So is the issue the parties themselves? or is it that nowadays Given that all adults have lived their lives publicly online for the last ten, fifteen years Itm impossible to find anyone, or at least a proper human being who hasn't said something dAft Because if you haven't but I think something outrageous. I mean, you and I put some funny stuff on X, but ye we're not saying anything sexist or racist. No, no, and I'd like to think that's because I'm neither sexist nor racist. But Well yeah, there is that. But let's be onene reason why they're sort of pushing Robert Kenyon is precisely because He's a normal working class plumber. Yes. And I'm sorry, but I think you'll fine. most normal working class plumbers I feel strongly that women ruby players handle their knockers well? Well I know. and also funny enough, the most obnoxious views of all, frankly, have been expressed by Andy Burnham on the whole trans women and women You know, women can have penises. y throatated koolid drinking that he indulged in when the transr Wars broke out around a decade ago and is now rapidly backpedaling away from. I mean, I find that absolutely insulting. I wr my column on Saturday. Just to finish the point, do read it. He owes the women of the UK a huge and grovelling apology. because while the rest of us saying No Andy and all of your ilk that are jumping on these bandwagons with ly jumps on the BLM bandwagon as soon as it's launched, jumps on this, jumps on that, now trying to massively distance himself from his own absolutely preposterous position Could you just turn aroundound, now we've got the suit? You had plenty of time, dude. You had plenty of time to revise the whole. Any bloke can turn up at any single sex space With no certification at all and say they're a woman. you actually advocated that. and we talked about Nicolas Sturgeon. This was Nicolaurgeon on steroids as far as pro trans extremism was concerned. And now you think you can turn around at the weekend and say, Oh, actually, I think we should all respect the Supreme Court judgment. Well, you didn't. You could have changed your mind when the CA report Sart is suggesting that we were literally abusing a whole generation of children with puberty blockers and realignment surgery. But no, Andy. O now because it's politically expedient have you changed your tune becausecause the good people of Bakerfield, including plumbers, thought it was all a load of absolute nonsense in the first place, rant over. I find that frankly more obnoxious. I agree. And And some of these comments And Burnhams views are the product of a mix of cowardice and wokery Whereas Kenyan's views are just if these are his views, being a bit of a neanderal. Well a mixure of It's a stupidity. Right. Okay. so it's a choice between cowardice and grossenness. Yes I'm not saying we have. I mean, could we perhaps have somebody that hasn't come out with? But look at Donald Trump. grab them by the eggs, right? Okay, know What we Mike, I come back to What we have learned is people nowadays project what they think into the public domain So we now know what they think in a way we never knew before And the public has become very good at picking through and saying That outrageous comment matters That one doesn't. Yes. And I think in the I've I think in a way on balance The outrageous opinions of Kenyan from ten years ago I think matter less than Andy Burnham's opinions. because he's running not just to be an MP Prime Minister. Yes, that's right. Shallould we just have a quick chat about restore Britain and the effect that Rupert Low's party may have on the Makerfield B election? Not least because Mister Low will be joining us in the Daily Ta stududio on Monday, Tim. Yes. Do you remember when I asked Farage in one of the press conferences that we attended, know the threat from Restore? he was a very dismissive and he was like D't Who are they? the poll. Exactly We've always said because we had heard it from kind of reform insiders, that they were starting to get quite worried when Restore was polling at around three percent because they thought that that was the margin that could cost reform a majority at the next general election. We now learn, I think it's from find out now, Restore Britain are on seven percent potentially in Makerfield And now they've got Elon Musk backing them, which obviously is significant when it comes to kind of the social media effect of this campaign That's tricky, isn't it because I mean, we'll put this to Mr. Low directly, but basically got here is a kind of preposterous spat between two wries that agree with each other on all of the fundamentals. Now at war with each other, the result possibly being that they allow Burnham to become the next prrime Minister. And apparently this is all great for democracy. Yeah. I mean the question is, can you guys keep it together on the right? Can the new populist movement not just on the basis of arguments and votes, but also beat on the basis of discipline And this looks like you can't. I mean, is this not the mirror image of labor with greens and your party? Yes. It's exactly the same phenomenon. It's like when you break away from a church, it never stops there The sect always splits into another sect People always discover a new prophet, right? And the church that's broken away starts to become smaller and smaller and more obsessed very particular doctrinal disagreements they have with Next Door Sect.. And it just feels like a replay of that. Having said that though There are questions that Nigel Farage has to answer Even if Restore only took, let's say three to five percent of the vote Why couldn't you nail down one hundred percent of the anti labor populist vote in that constituency? What is it about you that a small but significant number of people have said I don't trust you and I don't like you Well, what's weird as well is for those further to the right of reform who are opting for restore Yes, the explanation of that could be that demographically, Makerfield is ninety seven percent white. But then you'd think they'd be more motivated to vote for low if, for instance, that constituency was full of migrant hotels or there'd been some issue there like there has been in say, EPing or EPpsM. There isn't. So it could be that vote because they're wanting to stop migrant hotels coming into the sea. Well they're concerned about the general state of their country, right? And there was a guy who was interviewed, it went big on Twitter, who gave this very lengthy explanation of why he supports reform. and there is a coherent worldview there. It is not just reactionary I don't like Asian people in my area kind of politics. And there's something else going on. And I think it comes back to what we've discussed on this program before that we grew up in a world in which partarties with coalitions and you voted in large part for who you didn't want to win So you might vote conservative because for all their faults, I want to keep labor out and the Tories will give me fifty percent of what I want Growing numbers of people are now consumers who pick parties they want.es. And they don't even care if it means they get a worse outcome because they want that thing. And Restore speaks to that. and it's still a very small proportion of the populist electorate But reform, I don't think can just go around attacking them Okay that there' a Comments link to their activists, which should be very damaging. But as we've just been discussing with Robert Kenyan and Andy Burnham, actually they're not. voters are tend to dismiss things that have been said of the past. So it's not enough to say Rore is a bunch of racists. I think you've got to try and figure out why are we bleeding some support to them And what can we do to reassure those people and win them back? Farraage is moderated because he wants to win over Waitroowses womoman And I don't think it's even a question of moderating. I think it's that he is at risk of appearing to slip into easy cliche. Yeah because they say he doesn't want to offend. Nobodybody's got to unite that difficult caucus, which is blue wall and red wall. Boris Johnson managed it because the Okay, someome thought it was a buffoon, but the old Eonian in him did appeal to some more moderate consonservative voters because there was know some shades of lib demory about the man, let's be perfectly honest. intensely relaxed about mass migration. Agree And I doubt Nigel can reach into enough of those voters to compensate for the loss to restore.. So he's really got to shore up the populist thing. But Robert Kenyon, the campaign from the outside looks heavy on visuals, as I've said of him driving around and waving at people and telling people to get out Yes Restore type people are people who want to hear specifics and say tellell me how many people you're going to deport and how you're going to do it. And as you mentioned earlier, just this morning, there's been a row between Genic and Zia over whether or not they're going to use I style raids Maybe Kenny should just go round to people tempted to vote for restore and like fix their leaky hs. Genuinely, actually I will vote for you. Thankk you very much.. A quick word on Starmer. He's accepting his time in number ten is coming to an end according to the observer, although there's counter evidence to that saying, even if Beram wins, it might not be the end. So as ever we don't really know Starm as a push we pull you and where is he even at? It's not over for him if Burnham loses. That's why thisi election is so important. It could save the Prime Minister. We'll be back tomorrow, five PM