Discernment in a Polarized World

Good morning, everybody. Thank you so much for being patient. We were trying to be accurate on this story that we are going to report to you this morning. It is a tough one. So make sure you please hit the like and the thumbs up. It is really important to us in Independent Media . And yeah, and for the health of our channel, let us know where you are streaming from and we want to tell you the story we're going to cover today is hard . We have people on who one person who's just was completely correct about this will have on in just moments. Okay so good morning lemonation, everybody. I want to talk to you about something hard this morning, something that does not have a clean answer here, okay ? Something that is going to require I think all of us, but especially Democrats to reach deep , to do the right thing even when the right thing is pain ful , okay? Because unlike the other party, Democrats actually care about getting this right. Democrats aren't usually hypocrites when it comes to these issues . Democrats usually don't elect people who are accused or found guilty or liable in a civil court for assaulting a woman. They don't usually do that. That's a Republican trait. That is a Maga trait. And that is exactly what makes this moment so hard because we have been saying, Democrats need to stop at the purity tests. Democrats need to do this, they need to do that. They need to be more like Republicans. Okay, let's take a step back though and examine this story because I think everything , as we have said with all of this , should be judged on its own merits. Grant Platiner won the main Democratic Senate primary last month. He was supposed to be the candidate who finally takes down Susan Collins, you know, I am deeply concerned, Susan Collins. It is one of the most pivotal Senate races in the country, a race that could determine whether Democrats take back the Senate majority in November. So I know that a lot of people are conflicted about this and they're saying, hey, you know, Donald Trump is in office and so what if we, you know, we already have a as you guys are saying as they say on the social grape , right? Even that th'oughs what a judge the judge who decided that the Trump civil case said it was akin to . Okay, but is that the right thing to do? There's some legitimate legitimacy to that argument , but you have to step back and look at what's actually happening. On Monday, Political reported that a former girlfriend named Jenny Roscoe says that he sexually assaulted her. Her words are specific. Her documentation is real. Her corroboration predates his candidacy by years Apparently she has corroborating evidence. She has memorialized it. She has spoken to a therapist about it, all the things. She told her therapist at the time of this. She told a friend, the man she dated after Platinum confirmed what she shared with him about that night long before any of this was political . She said , I remember him grabbing my pelvis and being really forceful with me. I remember the specific moment where I thought to myself, this is no longer my choice. She is speaking to CNN. Here's Jenny Roscoe . Yeah , and unfortunately that's something that I think a lot of people are desensitized to in general, heavy drinking and especially out of the relationship that I'd just come out of. So it wasn't anything abnormal to me. I remember we were out one night and he was drinking and that,'s when he he told me that has PTSD. When the New York Times story came out, you were in it , but you didn't go as far in that story as you are today . Yeah . Why not? I didn't want to. I didn't want to have to violate this huge level of privacy to my own life to be able to infer that this person is not honest and trustworthy . I felt I felt really protective of my own privacy throughout this whole process. And it got to a point where my privacy was no longer going to happen. And that was when I kind of just made the decision that like, I'm going to say my piece and get it out there. I had tried to give the impression that something , you know, worse happened, and that's when it was like, I refused to comment further. You definitely alluded to a bad night. Yeah , so bad that you'd ever saw him again afterwards. Yeah . But just to underline the point, you're not coming forward because you have any political motivation. No, not at all. That was actually one of the huge reasons that I didn't come forward and still struggled like that was a huge moral conflict to feel like because you'd like a Democrat to be in the Senate. Yeah , yeah. I like the things that he speaks about. They're important. They're important to people. I'm one of those people . But at the end of the day , you feel he's not being honest. He's not being honest, no. And we should note this is twenty twenty one we're talking about . It's only five years ago. Tell me about that. When was it? It was at the end of twenty twenty one. I remember it being shortly after I moved back into my winter home because that is where it happened. And it was a night where him and I were texting back and forth and he had taken something that I said as an invitation and that's not how he meant it. And I quickly clarified and he sent a message back indicating that he would come over and I said no , don't come over. Like, I'm not in the mood, don't come over. And I was more stern with that message. And then I didn't hear back from him. So I thought that that meant he got the message or gave up on it or whatnot. And so like half an hour later I heard a noise outside my door and then he came in, he just came into my house. It was unlocked. I live in an area where you don't usually have to lock your doors . I do now. So he came in and I realized, okay, he didn't listen. He's in my home. And I was laying on the couch. It was probably pretty late at night and I was already ready for bed. I just wasn't in bed. And so he had kind of like jumped on top of me and indicated that he had intentions that were sexual in nature . And I remember just at first being like, Hey, I'm not into this. Like don't, I'm not in the mood. Don't whatever. And it got to the point where I was like, okay, I feel like I've said this enough times. Like he's not listening to me or he's not hearing me. And I looked at him and I remember this very specific look in his eyes . And I could smell alcohol and I was like, this is different. He is heavily intoxicated. And that blank stare was kind of like a photographic memory that I still have of that night and his that was me recognizing what the situation was. And this wasn't just like oh, hey, somebody showed up and I'm going to tell him to go home. Like he was heavily intoxicated, had intentions with me and wasn't wasn't listening. So I said, No, no . And you were so that was her. And then the interview goes on for a long time. Now, look, I 'm not blind. I can see some of the comments and the comments are interesting. I mean from why did she pick this particular reporter? I'm not trusting this reporter . Why did these things come out? And some of you saying he should definitely step down. These comments are very interesting to me . And because I'm just seeing them now, this is going to be a total transparent, pardon me, a transparent show . And I think we're going to open up the phone lines. If you guys are interested, we'll open up the phone lines. Before we get to the phone lines or maybe we'll take some calls with the folks who know our guests who are going to come on . But wow Yeah . I want to know what people think. Now, here's what Platinum is thinking. By the way, again, hit the like and the thumbs up and it's very important, okay? Very important to us. Graham Platner did release a statement. He called it categorically false. He did not commit to staying in the race, but he didn't say he was going to drop out. He said he's reassessing . This is his statement. I wanted to directly address the troubling, serious, and false allegations against me . Any accusation of non consensual behavior is categorically false. Over the last ten months, I have been deeply humbled by the faith Mayners have put in me. You have welcomed me into your homes , into your places of work, into your restaurants, and your houses of worship. You have shown that a different kind of pol itics , one that puts the interest of people over corporations is not just possible, but is inevitable . This movement we have built, the largest volunteer base in the history of main polite ics the hundreds of thousands of grassroots donors and the supporters across the ideological spectrum, we were united in a love of main , a belief that our politics must change and a focus on defeating Susan Collins. So regardless of the inaccuracy of the reporting but mindful the political reality it will inflict, we are taking the time to reflect on the best path forward for the state that I love, the people that I love , the movement I belong to and the goal of defeating Susan Collins. Those were the goals when we launched this campaign , and they remaine, my goals today. On june ninth , one hundred fifty four thousand fifty eight mainers the most in primary history voted to reject a broken politics beholden to Washington and the donor class. They voted for hope , for change , to take back our economy, to take back our power , and to take back our Senate seat. Throughout it all, you never turned your back on me , and I will not turn my back on you now Every one of you deserves to see that vision come to fruition and see Susan Collins defeated , and we will use every tool at our disposal to do so. As Main goes , so goes the nation . As always , thank you . Okay , wow . So that's what he says. Now, what do you think? I when I first heard this, I said, wow, I wonder if it's going to make a difference. He's just talking, you know , personally . I wonder if it was going to make a difference because I thought that he may have, you know, Mamdani ty pe support considering that he won after similar allegations were made at least about being aggressive with women, about being online and sexting and his wife knowing, all those things. And I said, Well, I don't know if it's going to make a difference . So perhaps just this is my unscientific survey , but from what you're saying in the comments, maybe there, maybe he can eat this for not. I don't know. I'm just asking, but I want to hear from the panel and I want to hear from you. Now , here is the hard part. I know what Democrats are feeling right now. I know because most of us are feeling it too You are making that known by what you're saying in the comments . Maine is a seat that they need. Many of us are saying even if you're not Democrats, I'm not a Democrat. They're saying that we need that in order to bring the country back to , you know, some sort of normalcy , you know ? So kind of know what Democrats are feeling and I'd like to be transparent. And some of the Democrats who, you know, spoke to us about this and we would like to get on, all of a sudden today they are quiet, silent, you know, out of town , in communic ado, can't my phone is broken, whatever. Susan Gollins has been enabling Donald Trump for years while pretending to have a conscience . The infrastructure is built . The money is raised . The general election is four months away and now this . So I also know the conflict as a survivor of assault, I know that conflict as well . And I have a how do I put this? I have a certain sense of where of things like this happening . What's true, what's not always, well, pretty much I'm always right . If you have ever been, if you have ever survived, I shouldn't say I was a victim. I'm a survivor. If you've ever survived, then you have a keen sense of what's real and what's not, and you can, you know, you have I can spot people a mile about who they are from across the room . Because you learn so early. I was young childhood that you learned so early that people aren't always who they present themselves to be in public, right ? And so this is genuinely painful because it's a personal thing for you , but then there are bigger things that are on the line for the general public for more than just when people say this is bigger than me. The story is bigger than me . So it's genuinely painful because Democrats have really been fighting so hard for so long against so much of things like this and now they are being asked to potentially give up a senate seat because their own candidate has a sexual assault allegation with a paper trail Is it fair? No, it's not fair. Nothing is fair. Life isn't fair. None of this is fair. And I want to acknowledge that before I say that what I'm about to say because I don't know if Fair has anything to do with this . Jenny Roscoe said this man forced himself on her while she said no with her therapist notes with her friend 's confirmation, with her ex , with her with a cooperating witness. She sat for three separate political interviews and told her story consistently. She said that she agrees with Platinum's politics. She is not trying to help Susan Collins. She's a forty one year old woman from Maine who says something happened to her and she is telling the truth about it . What is fair about that about someone having to go through this horrible experience. So I don't see what Bear has to do with it. I think it's what's right . I think it's what it's real And I think that people should take it seriously. Now people say, Do you believe her? Well, this is what you want to say. I think that these allegations should always be taken seriously . And when you have this much evidence , I'm leaning towards belief . Now , other times , I think you obviously investigate all of them, but other times it's like, I don't know. But this one is, you know, she's got the receipts, it seems like . And look, it's not because it's politically convenient, it's not because it helps them when I think the belief part comes because of, you know, if you have a credible person , look it might cost them a seat , but because if Democrat s are going to say believing women is not a slogan that you deploy when it's easy and set aside when it costs you something , then you have a problem . If you're going to believe women, as Democrats say, then you have to believe women when it hurts . So I'm not going to tell them what, but this has been the Democratic slogan, right forever . When Brett Kavanaugh, do you remember that? And then we are in this time now where they're saying, Democrats, you need to do it's an interesting time . And here's the thing that I want every Democrat who is wrestling with this right now to hear, and even people who are not Democrats, people who just are sick of this fascistic regime that we're in now, this fascist regime that we're in now that I want you to hear . I don't believe necessarily that I don't think that this is a purity test. A purity test is when you refuse to support someone because they are not progressive enough or some policy question that you don't agree with them on one issue or something or they didn't say the right thing or their past is not perfect. I mean that's a nobody is a perfect past. That's a purity test , but then some things are just beyond that, right ? This is not that. This is a woman describing sexual assault with corroborating evidence, and that's not a purity test . I think that's a flaw . That's the absolute minimum standard of human decency that we are asking a candidate to meet. And so when they say, Oh people be no one, I know how difficult this is, but I also know how it feels I'm not the same feeling as Ms. Roscoe, but as a child survivor, look, I know it stays with you forever. And so in this moment, if this is true , and it's I tend to lean that way that it is , Grand Planner didn't meet that minimum floor . According to s. Roscoe with documentation with witnesses with a paper trail, now what do Democrats do in this moment They do what they have always said that they would do. They take the allegations seriously . They don't think I don't think this is something where you circle the wagons . I don't know if it's something that you calculate the Senate math and then decide if that outweighs the credibility of a woman with cooperating evidence . They don't seem to be doing that because most of the people who are saying they back the support, the money, all of that. Hm They do not make Jenny Roscoe a footnote in a political strategy memo . I think that they 're going to decide, but I want to know what you would think. So I'm going to wait I don't know, I'm going to tell you, I think that Platiner should step aside. I do . Unless he's got some like something that's just going to exonerate him . I think that, especially with the deadline coming up, I think they have till the thirteenth. I just think like now is the time. You can disagree with me and you do, and I know that you guys here have disagreed with me, you disagree with me about Biden. I was right . Sorry . I think they replace him because they have options. They have , I think they have Darred Golden. He's a real option. He's a Marine veteran, widely respected . They have Norf Shah, I believe he's a former main CDC director. Shina Bellos, the Secretary of State, Troy Jackson , the former state Senate president . And I think any one of them can run this race. Any one of them can make it competitive. Any one of them can take on Susan Collins without dragging a sexual assault allegation into every debate, every ad, every news cycle between now and November. So the governor, as you know, was in the race. Janet Mill , she never endorsed Platin or even after he won the primary. She maybe she knew something that we don't know. The rest of the party needs to catch up . And here's what I believe about Democrats that I do not believe about the other side. I believe that they will do the right thing . I do not think that they are going to look at Jenny Rosco's therapist notes and her witnesses and her corroborated account and decide that winning the seat is more important . I think that they're going to take a hard breath and they're going to make a hard call because that is who the Democrats actually are when they are living up to their own values, values that they state . But they got to do it fast. They need to do it loudly. And they need to be very forceful with Graham Platiner, and they need to do it in a way that makes clear that this isn't politics, it's about actually that they something they actually believe in. Because the alternative is not losing the moral argument when I say and I believe look , the people who don't like this fascist regime, they need to stop worrying about winning arguments and winning elections. The alternative is not just losing a moral argument. The alternative is going into November with a candidate whose opponent will run nothing but Jenny Roscoe words in every ad from August through election day. And Democrats will have handled Susan Collins the one thing handed her, the one thing that she needed to survive . So Jinny Rosco said that she remembers a specific moment she realized it was no longer her choice. You heard her there. Democrats get to make a choice right now . They get to make it freely. They get to look at the evidence and the corroboration and the documentation and they get to make a decision of what kind of party that they and what they actually stand for . And so I hope they make the right one But I needed to say this out . I needed to say this morning because Miss Roscoe deserves to have someone say it. She's standing on her own. She doesn't need me . And Democrats deserve to hear it from someone who believes that they are the only party right now who's fighting for democracy. So Democrats, the next forty eight hours are yours. Do not waste them . Jenny Roscoe is waiting for an answer . So is the rest of the country . This is a test . Make sure you pass it. My guests are coming up. First a word from our sponsors. Here's something every entrepreneur learns sooner or later. Coming up with the idea usually isn't the hard part . It's everything that comes after building the website, processing payments , keeping track of inventory, shipping orders, answering customer emails. One minute you're doing what you love in the next, you're buried in the business of running the business. I know exactly what that's like because that's what building the Donald Limon S lookhedow like for me . 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The one thing I know about Republicans, when we had a very bad candidate found out, we didn't vote for that person . We walked away. For better, for worse. When Matt Gaetz came forward, yeah, we got rid of him. Yeah. Kevin McCarthy, as always, great to see you. Thank you. Great to see you . What? What? Terra Setmeyer has something to say about that. I know co founder and CEO of the Seneca Project and UVA Center for Politics Resident Scholar. Jack Cacharella here, political commentator and host of the Jack Cotterella Show Republicans don't they get rid of candidates like that as a former Republican , talk to me, young lady, good morning . Hi Don. I saw that and I just had to laugh out loud. I was like, Kevin McCarthy, little Kevin, you need to sit this one out, dude. Seriously, could you be more unself aware and hypocritical . But this is it was on Fox, right? They live in an alternate universe of propaganda bullshit, where they literally feed their viewers propaganda lies. Like the absolute opposite of the real world . So the idea that Donald Trump, who he supported went down and kissed his ass and gave him a little fake trophy after january sixth and all the of things that he did and he still did become speaker and then clearly didn't last long . All of that to kiss up to Donald Trump, who is an adjudicated rapist who is a credible sexual harasser and assaulter and they elevated him to president of the United States. So I like miss me with the righteous indignation now about what's happening with Democrats. Like it's just not. That doesn't mean that what's happening with Democrats isn't a legitimate story and a criticism. I have very strong feelings about this, and we're going to talk about that in a second, but the absolute abject hypocrisy and the pearl clutching coming from Republicans just stop. Like just mister Always terror. They always do it. Like, oh my god, I can't believe that Democrats and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like a minute. Now I have to say this before I let Mr. Cotcherolli in you were one hundred percent right . And we talked a bit this morning and I said, Tara , you were right and I go on. You know, listen, these are the kinds of things that I don't want to be right about . You know, like I've said this often. I was right about Donald Trump also in twenty fifteen when I came out as one of the party. That's right when I came out as one of the first voices never Trump Republicans when I was still a Republican , I came out against Donald Trump from day one. I called out the hypocrisy on it, and I said if this guy gets elected , he's going to destroy our country and our democracy. And I, you know , I didn't want to be right about it. I don't want to be right. And this is the same thing with the situation with Democrats supporting Graham Plattner. You and I had this conversation, a very spirited one, Don, back in October, I guess it was or whenever the first controversy came out about his Nazi tattoos and his very disturbing reddit posts about women. It was October. I mean is it that long? I feel like it was October . I think it might have been October. I think it was October. I think it was October. And he had very, very concerning posts, reddit posts about women, about rape victims saying that they should, you know, take responsibility some responsibility and get over themselves talking about rape victims , you know, and homophobic posts. And he just flat out lied about the Nazi tattoo stuff. And I watched his response. Now , listen, I'm a person and I'm okay with redemption stories when it seems to be legitimate. But you can tell a lot from a person's disposition, from the way they handle adversity, and I did not believe that he was legitimately redeemed or sorry there was a certain amount of smug bit of smugness and arrogance that came from him that just didn't make it believable. And when your senior campaign advisers resign within a week like his original campaign folks did, one couple that came on and then resigned almost immediately around that controversy because of the way he handled it . That tells you a lot because when you're a senior campaign staffer, you have a lot of insight and you're around that candidate and you see them when the cameras aren't on. And I can tell you, especially the women that were, you know, on that campaign that said, I'm out , it was a red flag for me. It was a red flag. And his behavior since then unfortunately reinforced my concern . The idea that people were just so excited to overcompensate for a regular guy that's going to take on Susan Collins. He's an oyster farmer and the whole story, even with his background being somewhat bullshit. You know, he was a prep school kid. He wasn't he's not just some like regular guy. Like there was a lot going on here that people were wishcasting and hoping because he brought something different and they were willing to overlook his really troubling and alarming character flaws and behavior just to be something different that I knew was going to blow up in their faces. And he lied to a lot of people , you know , and once when there's smoke there's fire and when there's one, there's usually two or three, there's usually more. And I've been doing this for a long time. I've been in politics for thirty years and I've seen both sides of this year. And unfortunately now we're in the situation we're in now and I didn't want to be right, but it is a cluster fuck and a half now in Maine . Okay . Jack I want a discussion about this. Go ahead. I want a first jump in on the Kevin McCarthy thing. I thought it was Mitch McConnell, considering how brain dead what he said was. Just truly disgusting that these people are taking an opportunity to glow with a literal pedo. Is the president of the United States and the White House are they suck up to all the time. And again, just a damning indictment that when Republicans have their peto candidate and their peto president, they're always falling behind them . But you've seen I don't know who did get behind Graham Blattner, who hasn't dropped him called for him to step down. I just saw Meramdani say the same thing he hadn't even endorsed in that race, but when this happens at the left, you see people move for accountability right away and it's just such a difference between not only the fact that Republicans won't do it, but they won't even acknowledge that they won't do it. And in fact, they pretend that it is the opposite. It's just disgusting . Okay, so Jack , you supported him. You thought he should stay in the race after all the things and then now this . So how are you feeling this morning about that? I know you're probably getting some goff from some folks, but how you feel are ing? And probably rightfully so, you know, rightfully so getting a little shit. And I think that's okay. I think that in Terry, you said this , you know You know , there was a certain not just set of policies that Graham read on, but there was a certain worldview about how to make government work and to make government not be a tool that allows the most powerful to abuse that power and gain more power to abuse that power . And he spoke in that way with a worldview that made me think that this is this is something different . This is someone who sounds different. This is a set of ideals that is different . But I think it should be a reminder that just because someone espouses policies that you agree with or even a worldview about stopping those who will abuse their power , it doesn't mean that they won't do the same. Because that's what Graham Planner did. He abused his power , he abused his power as a man as someone who was in what seem to be a relationship with someone that trusted him . And he abused that power. And I just think, yes, it is a reminder that just because we agree with someone and just because we believe in someone does not mean that they are not also fallible. Does not mean that we also don't all have feed of clay . And I think that there also has been in the same vein of people kind of getting some licks off on those of us who endorsed Graham, who supported Graham, who donated to Graham, who elevated Graham, who defended Graham , hoping that this was someone who , who did learn, who did change, and who represented that a very, very broken country could grow, could change , could again not get behind just Medicare for all, but the idea that our government actually does work for something , that actually it can protect people , that it can make their lives better, improve their material conditions. That this idea that the Reagan line that Mayor Mandani has recently been debunking that the scariest thing that can happen is someone from the government knocking on your door, but that that can actually be beneficial . Again, does not mean that that person is not going to abuse their power. Now there are people right now who are trying to frame this as a kind of left versus moderate thing , but that's not the case. This is not a loss for an ideology or a win for an ideology or to say that a person without the necessarily perfect not perfect background, but kind of the kind of the grown the grown up in the system background , kind of the you were you were bred for this. You were born for this background. It doesn't mean that people who were organizers or AOC, of course, she was an organizer, but a bartender or people can't come out of nowhere and be incredible candidates. It certainly doesn't mean that . But it does mean that just because someone has a story that's really compelling , it doesn't mean they are personally as well. I think that there is there are a lot of lessons to learn, but there are also a lot of lessons not to learn that some people want to say because we have just come out of a more establishment candidate and Eric Swald dropping out, right? We had establishment Democrats backing Andrew Cuomo. And so I think to paint in a broad brush about one side or the other in the intra Democratic Party fight takes away from what should be the real lesson, which is okay, okay. Not exactly just going along. Tara, how long have I known you now? ten, fifteen years, longer? More than ten years more than since like twenty fourteen, twenty fourteen. No, I thought it was before that. Okay , so I know your face. What do you want to say? As my mom would say, fix your face, young man . So okay . All right . So here's the thing . And you know, and for folks like Jack and others and particularly younger people who have grown up politically under the Trump era and really don't know anything other than the despicable excuses for horrible character and terrible behavior and the rewards for terrible behavior in politics , they really don't have anything to compare it to. So it's easier, I think, to make excuses for someone who has clearly demonstrated that they were unfit to be a Senate candidate because you're looking at the comparison. The Trump era, the MAGA era, and all of these people have would have been not even considered on a ballot prior to the Trump era have now been the bar for what's acceptable to be a public servant has gone so low that we are literally having a conversation about a candidate for Senate, for Senate, which is supposed to be the greatest deliberative body in the world, the Senate , who had, again, I'm going to go down the list of things that would have been dis qualifying in another era before Donald Trump . He had a fucking Nazi tattoo tattooed on his chest for twenty years and wanted people to believe that this was that he made a mistake, it was just a culture thing. He didn't know. Okay . He posted about women and sexual assault and rape saying that they it's, you know, they need to take responsibility for that. I mean, he minimized literal sexual assault and blamed women . He misrepresented his background , okay ? He also posted racist and homophobic things years before he ever wanted to run for Senate. And people said that wasn't enough. That wasn't enough. That's that doesn't really matter anymore. He wants Medicare for all . We agree with his policies. Character doesn't matter . And I think that and then the stories came out, very well researched stories after this , particularly the New York Times story that had multiple women come out about this . And then the story is about him sexting and cheating on his wife. And then the sadness, which is sad for me as a woman, to watch his wife go out there and make that video making excuses for him, you know, because he likes to lean into the whole PTSD and I you know, yes, I was a bad boyfriend but that doesn't mean that blah blah blah Yes, it does . I'm sorry, it does . We have to get back in this country to character mattering . Not this just, you know, well, we're not asking for the purity test and he has to be perfect. No, there's a difference here. There is a difference . Yes, the Democrats have an issue with the purity testing to some degree, but this is not that . This is not that, oh, well, he was relatable. He's an ordinary guy . We cannot become what we despise . The people who were defending this before now because I have an issue with all of those other things that were very serious red flags, not being the red line. But this is the red line. It took a rape allegation to get there. You I mean this, I think we need to like examine why it was okay to excuse all those other things because you like his policies. This to me is no different than the Republic ans and the Magas who made excuses for Donald Trump after access Hollywood. This is the Democrats equivalent of the grab and by the pussy moment for Donald Trump because all the other things , you know, all those other things about him. And then it was the grab him by the pussy. Well, we're going to make excuses for that too. It's just locker room talk. Well, look where that got us as a country. So for Democrats, do better. There are other candidates out here that don't have to have all of this baggage because you like their policies. Now, I don't agree with all the policies. Obviously, I come from a right of center point of view. I'm an independent now, but that doesn't matter. I'm about foot let's we need to save our democracy , but at what cost , don't become what you despise just to win. And that's the thing that I think the biggest lesson that we need to learn in this in the greater scheme of things. It's bigger than just the seat in Maine. Now let me ask something. Jack, do you want to respond to that? And then I'm going to ask up and done . Yeah, okay. So my question is, after all that and considering why you left the Republican Party and where this country has gone . If that seat goes to Susan Collins, how are you going to feel about it? I mean, listen, it was a it's a missed opportunity. Susan Collins is terrible, especially as a woman. Susan Collins is she voted for Brett Kavanaugh. Don, it was your show that I came on in twenty eighteen when I was a CNN contributor when the Brett Kavanaugh hearings blew up and the Christie Blazey Ford accusations came out and the way Republicans were treating her. I remember I came on your show and talked about how for women, particularly women who are survivors of sexual assault , how this, what message this sends if you vote for this guy and how our country was treating women at that moment. And this was like as me too was kind of a thing, right? So those stories were really being told. And I was really concerned that I was still a Republican then that and I almost quit the party over this because here you have a woman like Susan Collins, when you saw those sexual assault victims that were chasing senators into, I think, was Senator Jeff Flake into the elevator, remember that? It was heartbreaking where she was like, You need to hear us. What we've gone through is real . Do not do not go after women who waited years because that's another thing. Well, how come they didn't say something right away? Why wasn't there a police report? You know, listen, people, especially men, y'all need to understand the trauma that women go through and what we have to go through and when we're not believed and when we're the victims of these things, okay? My mother was in that position many years ago when she was sexually assaulted by a doctor. And because she was young and a single mother of a of a of color child , me and whose grandfather , my grandfather and her dad was a captain of the police department in our hometown. My mother did not say anything because she was she felt the shame of what that would bring onto her and our family and stayed quiet and didn't say anything to me for forty years, but the Kristi Blasi Ford Kavanaugh situation was so much that she said, I have to speak out. So all of those people that judge women for not saying anything, do you know what that happens to them when they speak up . So Susan Collins voting for Brett Kavanaugh after all of that, she betrays us as women. And then he went on went on and voted against Roe V Wade and overturned our right to our reproductive right s. So yeah, Susan Collins is terrible, but you know what? That doesn't mean that we put someone who's equally as terrible in his character and who knows and untested on top of that. Do we want another fetterman? This guy needs to be in therap y and work out his problems. He doesn't need to be paid by the taxpayers representing the people of Maine in the Senate with that with that level of emotional instability and character flaw. I'm sorry. Sometimes it's not, you know, those wins. It's doing anything to win at all costs. Guess what we've got right now with Donald Trump and the era of MAGA . I want to know because I said in the beginning of the program that the comments were interesting because there were people saying that he shouldn't drop out . They didn't believe a woman. They were saying why did they choose this reporter and blah blah blah. I want to go Dawn is on the line now and she wants to talk to us about Grant Platinum. The phone lines are open. And if you have a comment or a question, please keep it brief. And also turn the volume down if you're listening and just listen to us on the phone. So Dawn, go ahead. Hey, how are you guys? And I just want to say Don, first of all, you went out a birthday friends we say this year month and day. But I just want to say this. I agree with Tara. I remember when I was watching your show originally and I was fussing at the TV as Tara was going in at you saying no, grand Planner is a bad person. We should not endorse him. And so I agree with everything . I understand that he may have gotten a tattoo. He didn't know what it was, but reports that he told him what the tattoo was. So to me, that was a red flag . And I remember there being questions about it . I believe Don, you said something like Dems in the Purity Test. I don't even think this was a purity test thing. I just think he was just a bad he made some bad decisions. It may be PTSD , but he made some bad decisions and as Perra just said, he should go to therapy and to figure that out and then maybe he can be a better person. That's my take on it, but the Nazi tattoo was enough for me at the very beginning. Thank you, Dawn. You have any questions for the guests or is that just your comment? Yeah, that was just my comment. I just want to thank Tara. Jack, you're sitting there, you're looking fair, but we still love you, though, Jack I got to say I can take care of Tara's beating up on him a little bit, but we still love him not beat up . I'm just being honest. Not beating up being honest and saying the truth. And I am sad. I am incredibly disappointed and I disappo thinkinted is the wrong word 'cause it's about a woman who had her life fundamentally changed. Again, it's why it's not an ideology thing It's about two people . And to an extent, then yeah, maybe the people who enabled the behavior as well . And it does come back to what are the lessons that we want to learn out of this? And I think one does have to be just because someone does not share a worldview that you think is righteous and is out to protect people means that they personally as an individual are doing the same, just because they are advocating for systems to protect people , just because they are calling out those who hurt us all in mask because that is what Susan Collins does, right? That is what Susan Collins enables, the hurting of women in mask. That is what she has done throughout her career. That is what she has enabled with Donald Trump. But just because someone is standing up to that system does not mean that they as an individual are going to honor those same values or live those same values . And I had my judgment clotted on this one. I am fully willing to admit that. I just think that I'm the same vein that we shouldn't take this as a, okay, well, then that means that the establishment is we have, you know, if you've so uns quote unquote, been vetted before because we've had some people who have supposedly been vetted and it hasn't worked out, then everything's fine. Or that if anyone is sharing the same worldview on the left that they are totally fine, that there is the gray area of that. And we need to be skeptical, not necessarily skeptical, but we need to question people. Yeah. Jack, let me ask you this because look, I still believe that the objective for is to win elections. And so then where does this put Democrats in an interesting place? Because I don't think any of us who are sitting here in these three boxes believe that there should be purity tests for candidates, but Terra is saying, you know , sometimes you have to call it what it is, right? You have to be able, especially if you're a person of a certain age, you should know better. So I still believe that the objective should be to win. I still think that Democrats should not have purity tests . And if Susan Collins ends up winning, I'm going to be like, damn , we did not need that. So this puts go ahead, Jack , you know where I'm going with this. How do what do Democrats do? How are they going to feel? How's the country going to feel? Well, my hope is this is that there was a historic number of people who turned out in the primary vote for Cram. I hope that means that they did so because they thought that progressive policies and someone who would actually fight against Susan Collins in the systems that got her and have kept her in power would be the person to win Maine. I'm hoping that the energy was not just for an individual but for defeating Susan Collins. You know , the polling that shook out show that you know, Graham when he was running originally and of course after scandal and scandal and scandal that polling started to drop. But till the end there, it seems like he would be competitive or certainly a month or two ago. He was beating Susan Collins in most polling. Janet Mills wasn't, which is the reason that she did not win. And you know, it would have been great in hindsight. Of course, hindsight's always going to be twenty twenty, but if there was maybe not the thumb on the scale by Schumer to say, okay, we're back in we're back in Janet Mills and nobody else should get in the race because that's the Democratic establishment 's pick. And maybe there had been more people running . But now it's about finding and Don at the top of the show, you listed off a couple of names. Troy Jackson is one that comes to mind, but there are people who can still run and win this seat, but it was ultimately the people of Maine who made the decision, who voted for Graham Platiner, I'm just still hoping that they are having the same energy for defeating Susan Collins. Well, here's the thing about that. Here's just real quick on just in response to that. For the folks who are very upset about the establishment, I get it, right? I mean, I get it. Chuck Schumer and some of the establishment folks in the Democratic Party have not adapted to the times that we're in and not they're not playing the game that we're in and it's been very frustrating. But I also want to caution against constantly railing against what's defined as establishment. I think we need to be we need to have people that also know what they're doing . I mean people who are serious and understand how to govern and there's nothing wrong with that. Experience should not disqualify you just because you've been around and actually know what you're doing because there's more to being a legislator than just getting views on YouTube and Instagram and TikTok and being, you know, popular in the in the bro sphere, okay? You actually have to do the job. And unfortunately the Maga side , they've put a lot of people up there. It started with the Tea Party, right? A lot of the tea party guys they went up there because they wanted to shake up the Republican establishment. And we got MAGA. So I just think we need to be careful about how we're defining what establishment is and making that necessarily a bad thing. I think that there's experience and there's a certain ser iousness with having experience governing and knowing what policies are and being able to just sell it and be performative. I just think we need to be very careful about that. And the people in Maine who voted for Platinum and all that energy . I think it's the responsibility of the influencers and of the people who have that energy to say, do not take your ball and go home because you're mad that your candidate , you know, shit the bed here and lie to his people. You should be angry that he misrepresented himself and said that he didn't have any more scandals and all these other things and led you to believe that okay, we're going to go with this guy and look at what ended up happening. Take that energy and whoever gets picked if you really want to defeat Susan Collins, then you freakin need to vote for them. As long as they as long as they're not as, you know, they don't have a problematic background again because I've I mean, I'm hearing things about some other people, but then take that energy. Don't take your ball and go home over that purity test part of it and either you want to win or you don't . Yeah. Well, I do have to say, Job, Jack, if I can just share this, I spoke to Jack this morning. He's saying, I'm getting a lot of shit from him. I'm like, Well, come on and own it. The way you do that is like what intelligent people do is when they get better information, new information , they change their minds. The thing about Maga is that they never change their minds . No matter how much information you get we're not there. We're not cultivate. We're not a cult. You're not Nicole. So Kiki's on the line, Kiki, what say you ? Hey, Don, I've missed you so much for one. I was on vacation for like two weeks. So I was happy so to get back and watch the show today. But anyways I just wanted to say that this is such a terrible situation to be in because I almost agree with all three of you on the panel despite your differences in opinion, because I think Terra is exactly right. There are so many things that were just one red flag after another. And I think it was a great like analogy to say, you know , grabbing bottom, you know what ? You know, we let that well not we, I didn't, but some people let that flide and look where that got us. And you know, we're seeing a similar situation with Grand Platina right now. But you know, I was trying to stay out of it because I don't live in M aine. I don't vote in Maine, you know? If they wanted to vote for someone that had that track record, you know, we're trying to save democracy, the time we're living in, there's some things we might need to turn a blind eye to try and save ourselves from fascism and authoritarianism and oligarchy and all the things that we don't want, you know ? But after hearing that testimony, I had a different opinion coming into the show today, but after listening to that woman share the story of he made it clear through a text message that that was not going to happen . Not only did he show up to her house but showed up intoxicated and walked through her front door without knocking and proceeded to assault her . It's just it's made me feel now like coming into this, I was kind of like how Dawn is always like through the purity test. You know, we're trying to defeat fascism it sucks now that these voters in Maine might have to choose between Yeah, but this is different Keith and I think you're agreeing . Yeah, I think you're agreeing. This is beyond the we have to have a line . Yeah, it's there must be a line and you know Tara, I do. I appreciate you . You know , I love listening. I'm only twenty five, but I love hearing the opinions of the older black women not that you're old, butt youon look, great. , but I'm officially old. I'm always done. Stop it . Thank you. You don't look a day over certain . Bless your heart, sweetheart . It's called Kicki, it's called Melanin. Thank you very much. I'm a cool auntie. I'm cooked. . Christie Sharp is on the line. Christie . Hello , I have a question . So with the information that y'all are sharing this morning, I didn't know anything about it until the show . So to me, the lines are so blurred between Republicans and Democrats where I've now become an independent since being a part of Limination . But how do we use discernment to determine who is more qualified ? I'm sure everyone has a story a past . So how do we become diligent in making the best decisions when we're faced in such a crazy world now? How do we do what? How do we make a decision? Is that what you're saying? How do how do we just I mean, you know, because all these stories keep popping up, stuff keep popping up about people that we were supporting and all of a sudden we found NIC out and stuff and then we were like, Dang . Like, what do we do now? Well, I think everything has to be on a case by case basis, right? Because nobody's going to be perfect. You're going to hear things about people or there going to be things in their past that you do not agree with. But I think we can all agree that there are we know where that line is, right? And this one this is where the line is for me . You know, just because someone did something in their past, that's not great. We all have things in our past. That's not great. We all have made mistakes. And I think individually we know where that line is. So what do you do? I mean, I just think you read and you decide for yourself where the line is. But my line is is that I will support allies . And this is not I don't mean necessarily people who are running for office. But I will support allies and people who are generally on the right side of history on things. I'm not going to be mad at someone because they don't agree with me about one thing or they said one thing in their past that I didn't agree with or whatever. But I mean, if you're look, if you're accused of not accused of, if, if you are there is credible evidence of you, you know, you know being , you know , an abuser , I'm not down with that. Now look, there are times when I'm not sure where terrace stood. I think she can tell us, you know, during the Christine Blazi Ford and all that. There were people who were saying, yeah, you shouldn't believe all women. You shouldn't believe people initially. I don't disagree with that. I would not get about it. No, I'm not saying well hang on, let me finish that. Yeah. I don't believe that I think you should take them seriously . I think that because there is innocent until proven guilty and not and there are terror has been worked and polit ics. There are political operatives that will put things out there and you're like, I don't know about that. But I think when there , one must investigate, but we know we know where the line is. Tara, you want to weigh in on that because you've worked in politics for a long time Yeah, I mean, no, I think you're right. You have to take it on a case by case basis. And there are, you know, the whole like believe all women. I mean, believe women, but like use your own judgment. Life experience gives you judgment and the ability usually sift through what you think is BS and what isn't. And also when there's more than one where there's smoked there's usually fire . And so that's for me , another metric. And in the Graham Platiner situation, there were multiple. They're not all making it up. Okay? They're not all making it up. You're right. There are political operatives who will dig up some BS and maybe trot somebody out , but like, you know, you can tell, you can usually tell. And in this situation, I'm sorry, but there are multiple. And the New York Times and other outfits politico, they are professional organizations that have standards, they're not going to report unless they unless they have corroborating evidence. And in this instance, you have contemporaneous notes, you have diary entries. You know, I thought it was wrong that people went after the woman because she was a Republic an, one of the that worked for Republicans, one of the Plattner ex girlfriends. I forget her name, Lindsey something , right? I mean, so she's less credible because that's the part of the cynicism. That's the environment. Well, she's an operative. They, you know, why now blah blah Yeah, except that what she talked about, she wrote in her diary in twenty sixteen about how toxic and abusive he was. And so contemporaneous notes way before he was talking about running for Senate or way before any of this. So we just need to take these things into consideration. I know sometimes people want to see what they want to see because it's their guy and they don't want to believe it. You know, there's a certain cognitive dissonance also that happens when you're so invested in someone. But you know, I'm just saying, there's you just have to use your own your life experience and your own personal morays and make a decision and what that line is. But you guys know there are people out there still going,, Ah this is fishy . Look at the timing. Look at what happened here. Look at what happened . Jack . Yeah , I think that yeah, I think that it is the cognitive dissonance. It is the era of we want to beat Trump so desperately. We want to do anything to make that happen. It is worries that there was a thumb on the scale to start. There was, you know, Oppo collected as Oppo is collected in any campaign. So it's not the first time it's ever happened with Graham at the beginning of this race, seemingly not just from the Mills camp, but from the kind of Schumer Gillibrand camp as well. And so I think that people are jumping to be skeptical of anything just by nature of being kind of combative towards Schumer, but this is not a this is not a Chuck Schumer thing. This is not a Janet Mills thing. This is not a pick a pick a Democrat in the center there not' Jsohn Fen nman launching this operation. That much is what is very clear, right? This is evidence from years and years ago, corroborated by friends, by therapists, by text messages, by emails. This is deep, this is nothing to do with politics. And I think that I don't want to say like I understand why people are jumping to say Oh Schumer, but like I understand why people have questioned the involvement of any , you know, I know' I didnt like that I used the word establishment earlier, but you know, I mean, I get it. I just want to be careful because I know you know what I mean? Like that times it can be the don't let the, you know, perfect be the enemy the good. Yeah, I just mean like I think that that I wanted to get back to what you said necessarily, but I think that maybe some of the arguments that were used. And that's why I said it's a case by case basis and this isn't a loss for anyone, you know? I think a lot of the arguments of, you know, maybe this person isn't ready. They don't have enough experi ence was kind of made with Mayor Mamdani. And I think he's now the most popular maybe Bernie Sanders elected official in the country. But that doesn't mean that everyone who kind of sounds like Zoron and has excitement like Zoron is going to be Zoron. Again, I think that's the important lesson here that we got very excited about one candidate who proved to be a great executive of his city and that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to trickle down to everyone. Now it also doesn't mean it can't trickle down to some people , but I think maybe that's where the blinders come in. Wow. Well , what a conversation . And what I love about this conversation, you know, Terra, I love having conversations and I love debating but I'm glad that we were not like yelling at each other because I hate that, but I really am enjoying this conversation. The interesting thing though is that there I want to see how this plays out because I don't think we've ever been at this moment exactly with D emocrats . Usually in the past, Tara, as you and I would sit on the desks of legacy media, it would be Democrats would be right away, okay, forget it. It's over. Now you have, you know, you had Rokana and others who were saying, you know what? Let's see where this guy goes. We need to stop the purity test. Now they cut they did say unless something else comes out . And right. I mean, again, for me, I had a problem with what they let slide in the first place did that it got to this point, but that's just me. I believe that character matters and that's part of that's always been my political part of my political identity and that's why you know, that's why I was a never trumper and quit the party and all of that because character has to matter if it doesn't and that doesn't mean purity tests. Like there's nuance, right? Everybody nobody's perfect. And I think like I said, redemption stories people are relate, they can relate to that . But there's also a point where it becomes more than that. And I think that it has to be authent ic and people can vet that and that's why. The reason I ask is look, this is the New York Post, but I'm putting it up because there was an interview this morning. The reporter was on with Mika Brasinsky at Morning Jo e. And now the New York Post is saying, Oh, well , you know, Miss Now's Mika Brazinsky cast Dablin bombshell Graham Platiner rape report. Is there evidence? I think they're overstating the case. She's just saying is there evidence? I mean, what do you say? Don, I have very strong feelings. I don't watch Morning Joe anymore. Ever since Mika and Joe went down to kiss the ring after Donald Trump won the second time, I really don't give two fucks what they have to say about anything because in my opinion, they've lost complete credibility in every way, shape and form. And that's part of the problem right there . Right there. And then you want, you know, Democrats want to come out and stand on principle and say Donald Trump is the biggest threat to our democracy. He's like, you know, he's a fascist. He's like, you know, Hitler, they make all those comments , but now that he's elected, we're gonna go down there and be buddy buddy and make friends and make amends. I'm sorry. So I don't really care what M ickey Bridkzy has to say about this. And she's supposed to be someone who 's supposed to be, you know, supports women and you're questioning this about evidence. We're not in a court of law. We're in a court of public opinion. And people have a right to pass judgment. And as citizens , we are in a position we're supposed to use our judgment and pass judgment on who we elect as our representatives. So miss me with that too, Mika . Okay , well Well , I think it's a good place to end . I'm just being honest about that . Yeah , yeah. That's a whole other conversation, honestly , Cat got your tongue, Jack, I guess. No, I'm here to listen . I'm here to listen and learn . Thank you both. I appreciate it. Okay I'll see you soon. I'll see you soon. Jack Cotterella, Terra Setmire, check out their shows, both of them, both of them doing, they're doing great work right now, the Seneca Project, and Jack Cotterella Show on YouTube. Okay Now you're informed. So if you want to know anything about the Don Lemmon show, go to Donlemmon. com and while you're there , notice, right before you even can open the website, DL and DL anything goes, it is our tour. It is back . 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So hit that join button if you're on the YouTube and go check out our memberships, the folks who are calling in, those are the folks who are at a certain tier of our membership. So we thank you to our callers sorry, we can't get everybody on, but we will take more and this is a great day to take calls because there were such different perspectives . And I noticed the comments changed from the beginning to the end. I think people actually got some information and they change their minds during the show . So we'll see what happens throughout the day if Graham Platinum is going to step down. As we get more information, we're going to let you know here. So be informed about being inundated. Oh, make sure you check out our merch store. You guys have been asking about this t shirt. It is still on the merch store. It is one of the best selling t shirts, and it's my favorite. Well, I have a couple favorites. That one in the picture of me and Tim . 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