The Future of Independent Media

Good evening everybody. Good morning everybody. Welcome to Hot topopics. We're happy that you're here this morning. We really appreciate you being here. Make sure you hit the like and the thumbs up because it does affect the algorithm. more people become aware of our conversation and our channel. So I am really happy that you are here Um because There are some major decisions. We'll put it up. let's put up the Supreme Court right now. There are people gathering outside of the Supreme Court. There are reporters gathering, there are citizens gathering, They're deciding on some major, major The same at a constitution and deciding on who actually gets to become a citizen who is deserving a citizenship in the United States of America. So I want to talk to you about something though, this morning as we get started that is bigger than a court case. It's bigger than a headline. This is really about whether this country is willing to look itself in the mirror and tell the one simple truth And that simple truth is Everything in America runs through black people. I know that sounds weird to some of you. you're like, wait, what are you talking about But I want you to hear me out, okay Black people, our pain built half this country, if not more. our joy built the other half if not more together Every single time we get close to something that looks like full citizenship Full belonging, full personhood Somebody shows up And then they take it away Today, the Supreme Court could rule on birthrights citizenship And I need you to understand this because this is really important because they have been spending months. letting you think that this is an immigration story This is not an immigration story. It is kind of but it's not really an immigration story This is a story about black history That's a black history story Wearing an immigration costume is what it is. The fourourteenth Amendment was written in eighteen sixty eight three years after the Civil War. So this is all after the Civil War. Again, I want you to hear me out because this is important. Again, This is the reason that they don't want you to learn black history because black history is American history Everyone's like, I'm sure like birthright citizenship, this is about people who are not born in the country and mainly about probably, you know, Latino and people from South America and other Yes and no. They are using black people in America to get to those other ethnicities, those other ethnic groups The fourteenth Amendment was written in eighteen sixty eight. That was three years after the Civil War. and it didn't come out of nowhere It came out of Dred Scott If you know history, then you know what Dred Scott is. The eighteen fifty se seven ruling The Supreme Court of the United States looked at a man. His name was Dred Scott And they said Black people free or enslaved We're never meant to be citizens said that we had no rights We had no rights that a white man was bound to respect That was the law of this land So after the war, after a war that killed More than six hundred thousand people After black men fought and died in that war for a country that didn't even consider them human This nation wrote an amendment to say Never again Never again And then what happened Well, They said that never again, you are a full citizen here. Full stop. No asterisks No exceptions That amendment is reconstruction in writing, okay? That amendment is the blood of black soldiers turned into permanent law And today, a Supreme Court could carve a hole right through the middle of it. Now I just want you to follow the pattern with me because this is not new None of this is new This is the oldest story in America that's happening right now It wasn't just that reconstruction got dismantled in the abstract. lookook at the actual sequence Black men The vote fifteenth Amendment eighteen seventy, and for a brief window They used it They elected congressmen. Black state legislators. Black shheriffs. South Carolina's state House had a black majority And in response was immediate The response was immediate and it was organized The clan didn't form randomly, people I'm trying to teach you some history here. So whether you agree with with what the MAGA administration wants to do with birthrights citizenship or not stick around and learn something So the clan didnid't form randomly. It formed in eighteen sixty five, Riot as black political power started to look real and it It existed for one purpose, and that was to terrorize black voters out of polling places People who know their history, they know this, but not everybody does because they don't want to teach this in schools anymore, especially now to the younger people There were massacres in my home state of Louisiana, Colfx, Louisiana, Wilmington, North Carolina in eighteen ninety eight. The only successful couud on American soil, where white mobs overthrew a biracial elected government because they couldn't stand losing at the ballot box Does that sound familiar Sounds similar to what's happening now except they They can't do it right now with guns. I guess they're trying So now they're trying to do it by overturning the laws and amendments to the Constitution that were put in place to protect Black people and all other people's rights. Okay So They wanted to terrorize black voters out of polling places, massacres in Colfax, Louisiana. As I said, in Wilmington, North Carolina, and in eighteen ninety eight, the only successful coup d tas on American soil where white mobs overthrew a biracially elected Lgislature government because they couldn't stand losing at the ballot box And then That's when the Confederate mononuments came about And people need to understand the timing of all of this because it is not subtle. Most of them were not built They weren't built in eighteen sixty five or in eighteen seventy. They were they went up Decades later in waves, the nineteen hundreds, through the nineteen twenties, right alongside Jim Crow, and again in the nineteen fifties and the nineteen sixties, right alongside the civil rightights movement. This was all orchestrated. The statues weren't built to remember a war. Those statues were built as warnings, monuments to remind black people who was still in charge planted right as black political power tried to rise again Pll taxes. Literacy tests Grandfather clauses All of it engineered after black people proved that they would actually use the boat they if you just let them That's what they and shouldn't they That's the script, everyone It is not subtle and once you see it, You realize that that black People gain political power and the very next move always to make that power illegal, impossible or terrifying to exercise. Every single time black people get close to real advancement, somebody comes to burn it down Tulsa, nineteen twenty one Greenwood Right? Do you remember that? Black Wall Street The most prosperous black community in America, banks, hotels, theaters, doctors's offices built brick by brick by people one generation removed from slavery, and a white mob burned it to the ground in less than twenty four hours, killed as many as three hundred people, bombed it from the air. from the air and then the city rezone the land so it could never be rebuilt the same way. That same thing is happening on a different level now. That's what's happening They're using the laws and the advancement of black people in this country to get to other demographics. The chaos wasn't just a strategy You let black people gain some political power, gain something, and then you destroy it before it can become perermanent. And here we are again right now, because birthright citizenship isn't just about a baby born to immigrants in Texas. Are you listening to me Andy is this thing on It's on. I hope this is on becausecause I hope you're learning something This isn't just about an immigrant born to parents and is about whether or in California or whatever, about whether this country can write a law guaranteeing belong to everyone. Mean it. without finding a way to collect the second it becomes and convenient Ask yourself why this is happening Why now Why this fight? Why are they trying to put a database between a hospital and a social security number Why is that happening? Because full citizenship for everyone threatens a hierarchy here in America. It always has. The whole architecture of power in this country was built on someone being beneath someone else And every time that architecture gets challenged, Reconstruction, the civil Rights movement, Brown v. Board of Education or Brown versus the Board of Education the Voting rightights Act. Look at they did with the Voting R rights Act This is not a Coincidence This is on purpose There is backlash every time something like that happens. There's always backlash. Nixonss, you had Nixon's Southern strategy then the war on drugs, then mass incarceration Voter ID laws. Gerryandering And now this And now This is a new reconstruction fight. Make no mistake about it It just doesn't look like men in robes with torches. It looks like men in robes with gabbs which may be even more dangerous than the torches. And I want to be honest with you about something because I think it matters this morning The fear is real White fear of black advancement is not a conspiracy theory. It is a document it is documented. It is historical and it repeats every single time It also wasn't an aberration. It was the response. The backlash to black prosperity has been swift and violent and legal illegal generation after generation because somewhere in the bones of this country, there is a belief that there isn't enough room at the table for everybody When people rise, somebody else has to fall If A brown person rise, then somebody else has to fall. They're taking it from a white person That's a lie It has always been aivee. This country is not a pie with a fixed number of slices But that lie has shaped policy for two hundred and fifty years. and today it might shape one more ruling So here's what's actually at stake this morning Not abstractly concretely If the court guts birthright citizenship They are saying that the amendment born out of black blood and black sacrifice can be reinterpreted Narrowed The moment it becomes politically convenient, they can do it And if they do that to the fourteenth Amendment They can do it to anything. equal protection, due process. All of it sits on that same foundation This is why I keep telling you this. I keep telling you to pay attention to the things that don't look like they're about you because they're always about you They're always about us The story of America is the story of black people fighting to make this country honor its own promises and a country fighting just as hard to take those promises back And this is why I always say, hyphenated Americans so to speak, the Indian Americans, the Latino Americans, all of those people, every single day should be thanking black people for the rights that they have now, including women All of them becausecause the laws that were enacted and the policies and the amendments that happened during the civil rightights movevement Black people fought and died for and allies of of other ethnicities. but mainly for black people That is a protection of all people So this country belongs to all of us and especially Black Americans. You have to understand that history. Because otherwise it would be no fight for civil rights. becausecause the white people would say, okay, wed all of this, But the moment someone of color comes in or someone who's not a Christian. then they want to take those rights back. Winner powerless in all of this We never have been Greenwood got burned out And black folks rebuildt parts of it anyway. Reconstruction got dismantled and the civil rights movement came right behind it and forced this country to look itself in the mirror again Every time that they have tried to close the door. somebody has kicked it back open. So Whatever happened todayoday. Understand this. It's not the end of the story It's one more chapter and a fight that has been going on since sixteen nineteen. And it will keep going on as long as it has to because we have never, not once, waited for permission to belong Not once. So show up today, as I tell you every time Pay attention And don't let anybody tell you that this isn't about race It has always been about race and it has always, always been about us. And that's why I tell you, stop fighting about the stupid small stuff while they are doing the big stuff playing in your faces. and you are fighting in some chat room comment section one somewhere Don't be an idiot down Do the smart thing Now let's bring in my guests. Some of my guests are before before we bring in the guests, let me get this word in from our sponsors and then our guests are on board in just two minutes. We're back in two minutes Support comes from Lan. 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That's T ak E LieA n. com the promo code is Lemon This D download S show is brought you by the Freedom From Religion Foundation As America approaches its two hundred and fifteth anniversary, here's something worth remembering Freedom In this country includes the right to believe and the right not to believe And that only works if government stays neutral on religion The United States began as a rejection of monarchy and divine rule. The founders responded by creating a secular constitution with no state religion, no religious tests, and a government accountable to the people. That framework protects all of us Today, we're seeing growing debates about the relationship between religion and government in our schools, our courts, and our public life The Freedom F Religion Foundation works to protect the First Amendment because it protects everybody's freedom of conscience. Visit fFrF d. us slash D or text D to five eleven, five eleven to learn more or join. As we move toward America two hundred and fifty, we have to decide what kind of country we want to leave behind Text D to five, eleven, five eleven Text fees may apply. And thank you to our sponsors that keepep us powered. I'm going to bring the lawyers in just a moment. I want to go to our correspondent though there in Washington D.C. He is at the Supreme Court and Daniel Grimes joins us. Daniel, I understand that there has been a decision on trans athletes in schools, and we're waiting on another decision as we see folks gathering outside the Supreme Court Yeah, I mean, there's the crowd is actually growing. I came here around nine thirty. It was a small crowd. It's gotten a lot bigger, Butn, as you noted, the Supreme Court did rule that and against transgender youth rights, saying that schools are allowed to on the basis of Title nine rule that they can ban transgender youth from participating in sports. Now again, the biggest distinction here is that They're saying states M ban. If they're not it's not a a widespread ruling saying that they must and that is the the the foundation that a lot of people rights are worried about because now this ruling opens the ability for states to say, okay, you already said that states may fan transgender youth. All We're now going to ask you to require it, which means even if a state wanted to, it wouldn't be able to. But this case only said that you know, that West Virginia did not and I believe Iaho They were allowed to they didn't it was not unconstitutional that they banned transgender youth Okay, so they said they they may do it. They don't have to do it if they so choose to, which is going to be interesting because that's going to have to send it. I'm going to get the attorneys to come in because does that send it back to a lower court? If someone says, I don't want it, whatever. So that and is this a hedge? Like what is this Well so essentially two states created laws saying that transgender youth cannot participate in the opposite sets. Other people sued saying, wait a minute, a transgender girl from West Virginia sued saying I want to be able to participate in sports. This is unconstitutional to me. The court just ruled against that little girl saying that, no, no, states have the right to create these laws. Now again, that's saying states have the right to create them, not that they must create them. That's the difference there. what I was saying is expect to see. you know, when people get a win, what is the old the old saying, Don, you give a man an inch he' take a mile. so they I think a lot of Conservatives are saying, okay, the Supreme Court ruled that on the basis of Title nine, these states can do it. Let's see if they'll go further All right, Daniel, stand by. We're going're waiting the ruling on birthright citizenship about who gets to be an American. So stand by our Daniel Grimes at the Supreme Court right now. Bring in the lawyers I want to bring a customerceed, human rights lawyer and founder of Let's adddress This on Substack Simone Redwine is here your attorney leegalysty and host of the host of a Girl Is this leegal podcast. Rob Held is here as well, civil rights attorney and president of the Chicago Council on laawyers. And then joining us in a little bit will be Ariva Martin, the civil rights attorney.al and Bz Cussin, the other's attorney, what does this mean? U they can If they want to or they may, they don't have to Don, you broke up for a second. canan you repeat that question What is what does this mean? They may do it, but they don't have to Yeah, I mean, this is the legal jargon, the difference between may and shall. If they said shall, then they're restricting them from ever allowing trans kids to participate in sports or sports of what would they would call the opposite gender. may me that they have the right to do it. And this kind of goes back to the hypocrisy that Republicans have on a number of things, that whenever it's about excluding people or excluding rights They go back to states' rights and say states can do whatever they want. But when it's about protecting people that we just saw in this case about Hawaiian gun safety laws, they forbade Hawaii from restricting gun access. And this is one of the consistencies we've seen of this right wing MagA Supreme Courps. It doesn't surprise me that once again, when it comes to restricting people's access to be free and to kind of live their life without government tyranny and oppression They go back to states and say states can do whatever they want This is the same argument they made about overhrurning Roe But on the flip side when states want to go the extra mile and protect the right of people to be who they are, then the Supreme Court kind of restricts it. So that's a distinction here. and I know the second case hasn't dropped yet, but I you know, I'll just say this right now Even if we do get to protect birth citizenship, it should be a nine no decision. The fact that we don't know right now, the origin window has already shifted so badly to set it up for a future court to do the exact same thing. that's what scares me the most right now I'm with you on that. Simone what's your beat on this transgender ruling from the Supreme Cour So one of the reasons that people thought, know that transgender people may have some protections was that they were hoping that perhaps the court would lean on. there was a twenty twenty case that specifically found by the United States Supreme Court that discrimination based on transgender status is sex discrimination, which should be protected But here what the court did in order to say, well, hey, we're not we're not running afoul of that ruling. What they're saying is the distinction here is biological sex and that as it relates to sports There's a distinction here, even though we are talking about children how they kind of wiggled their way around it Mm, Got it, gotot it, got it. Yeah. mrter Rob. I say that to say Go ahead go ahead. I just w want to make sure people know that the protections or protections for transgender youth are still there. Transgender status is still considered protected as far as sex goes, but the way they worked around it was they're saying it's different when it comes to sports I it. Mr. Held Yeah. not a scholar in this area, Don, but you know, I think what most people notice is the politization of our Supreme Court And that transformation from a body that should be examining the law, calling balls and strikes as the Justice said some years back. you know, has moved into the political arena And we see that in the recent court decisions, but more so. and more affecting more people is what's happened to the Department of Justice, the politicization of what should be an independent legal body Mm. Okay. Now as I understand, I'm not I think they just ruled U on birthright citizenship. I'm not sure if Daniel is there produces if you can jump in because I'm going blind here. I'm fine blind here U Torund the FEC ruling right I'm reading right now about campaign finance. Yeah, campaign finance. ye. Okay Okay, so that's we'll get to the other thing. How do you we'll get to that in a moment as we get it. But Costim, how do you think this is going to what is this going to do, especially for the Republican argument? And you and I talked about this. rememember during the election, this whole obsession with transgender athletes and the whole messaging around it for for peopleeople who are underserved in this community, some of the most vulnerable people in America. And then they created political campaigns around oppression and discriminating against these people. However you feel about transgender athletes That's your thing, but The messaging around the election in which they knew, okay this is a winning thing for them How do you feel about this ruling in this moment I mean, it's just a reflection of this old mantra that for MAagas, the cruelty is the point U I think you and I talked about the ad that the Trump campaign was running you know, Trump is for you, comma is for they them, just to demonize the entire trans community. And it was extraordinarily effective, right? It worked. Nobody really knew what it meant, but they just knew that it was demonizing an already marginalized little understood community. And this is kind of further codifying it. And again, this is just a reflection of where the misplaced priorities are of the right wing movement. It's all about exclusion, it's all about restricting access for basic Lberties unless you have the the, you know straight, white male, gender for complexion, everyone else is expendable Look, it's no accident that you look at the red states that are passing these discriminatory laws, and you see a couple of consistencies You see the highest rate of child poverty You see the highest rate of gun violence. You see the highest rates of domestic violence. You see the highest rates of maternal mortality, the highest rates of infant mortality. You also see the highest usage of trans and gay porn. So there's a lot of, you know, self hating people in these societies that are trying to pass these laws, pretending that that's how someomehow it's going to create you know some revolution in society. All this's doing is' creating more ord And hey, so this doesn't surprise me and and you know, expect it to continue. I think the answers that people are going to be looking for is how do we protect trans kids, How do we protect the queer community broadly this is where I think we need to have a very serious conversation about the people that we likelect to office, we can no longer rely on incrementalism or you know, these moderate candidates, we need people who are going to take the fight to the national stage say I'm going to expand the Supreme Court. Yes, I'm going to stack the Supreme Court and put in people who actually will uphold the Constitution, protect our rights. Yes, I'm going to expand Congress because right now we are very underrepresented. yes, we're going to take meaningful action on the electoral collllege. Until people can run on these values, this incrementalism is going to allow fascism to continue to creep in and take over I'm so glad that you said that because when I hear from you know, hear politicians all the time saying we need to look into it, we need to look into it. We've been hearing about that. I think people are long past it. I think they realize like now, no, we need to do it. And very similarly to the electoral college as well. because if you look at the electoral college, we are being governed by a minority and that's not how it's supposed to be in America I mean, my minority, by the way, that comes from a legacy of white supremacy And this is not an insult. this is just a fact. The electoral college exists. to uphold white supremacy. That's the only reason that exists. There's no other practical or logical reason for it to exist.ne movement I'm seeing that's encouraging is states going to popular vote that whatever the overall popular vote is, that's where their stateates electoral votes will go to as well. So even uh, you know, in a situation like twenty sixteen where you know Hillary Clinton got three million more vs than Donald Trump but lost electoral vote. she would have won the presidency because that's what the majority of Americans want. It makes no sense whatsoever to say that, you know, we're a democracy in one person one vote and then undermine that for a white supremacist policy like the electoral College. But I mean I think as much as people are in pain right now, rightfully so I want to be able to channel that anger and rage into meaningful policies. We have Primary elections happening right now and we got the midtermss coming up This is another reminder why moderation in these critical times does not work. When the house is on fire Strongly worded letters and policy papers don't work. You need to take action and move. and anyone not willing to move right now needs to get out of the way And Rob, I'm sure you're experiencing that similarly now to what's happening in Chicago what's happening in Minnesota, what's happening in other places like this incrementalism doesn't work. I don't know if you agree with that, but we We need help in America now. We need people who are going to take action in this moment because if keep if they keep doing this, people keep going to detention centers, even though they're American citizens. their due process rights will be violated. They'll keep being dragged across the snow and they'll keep being able to participate if they want to in sports. However, the state decides that decides it. That's right. There is a lot of pain There's a lot of anger, there's frustration. There are people that speak about the Second Amendment and the need to resort to violence. And I'm not in that camp, obviously But the question is You know, what can people do now? Why are we in the situation that we're in And again, part of it is because we have and I mentioned the politization of the Supreme Court, What you have is an appearance the Supreme Court. and that the Justice Department is not executing the laws as written. So why is it that we have precedent That means that what the Supreme Court has ruled for decades and decades is being overturned now Why is that happening? And the Supreme Court has one thing And that is the or theoretically has one thing, and that is the people's trust in its rulings And that's what we're losing now And when people lose trust, And when they lose faith in their institutions and in their government That's what leads to What we saw in a lot of North Africa around twenty ten in the uprisings then And obviously, we want our institutions to work. And for that to happen, we need to have lawyers Judges The administration adhering to the rule of law And that's what's been lost M h I'm going to also bring in standby someimone. I want to bring in dear friend, my old friend Ariva Martin, civil rights attorne, legal commentator and best selling author. She's going to help us out with this. And before we hear from her and Simone again, I want to get to the Spreme Court and bring in our Washington DC correspondent standing there right now with some attorneys who can talk to us about birthright citizenship Oh, hey, how are you? My old pal, say hi. All right, he's saying hi. This is ye, Norman for Normiz it and just describe what brings you all here today Well, Juan Proano of Lulac and myself together with my colleagues at Democracy Defenders Fund were the two of the originators with a wonderful team of lawyers and clients. of the birthright citizenship case on we knew Donald Trump was going to try this two years ago We tried a project twenty twenty five and we prepared for that, looking for plainiffs around the country in anticipation of it, we were the first ones to file that lawsuit. on january twentieth, just a couple hours after he signed the executive order. So what would it mean if it's overturned today Well, we're confident today that we're going to get a favorable decision. And there seems to be some activity on that. So we're going to step off to find out what's going on. Don Ask Norm to see you Hey no, I'm great to see you can Norm. what is this if you have to step off, just ask him if you can come back because I understand the S you step off and they'll talk to Norm is an old friend. After MS now. Yes, We'd be happy to be back with you, Don. All right, cool. He has anS now hit and then he's going to come back later. Thank you so much. I will be here. But yeah, you heard it from them, D. case may have just been decided. We heard some cheers We are here G to listen in Everyone's Bayid S Is that okay? What Did we get it? Was it overturned?. All right, wait, right right here's not overturned. sorry, birthwright citizenship not overturned And Trump was overturned. H right there They're live in MS now so I'm gonna step away. But look, Don, right here, it sounds like the ruling came down in favor of the fourteenth amendment. Trump is probably a little infuriated right now because they struck down Trump's executive order is what I'm hearing. Let me go to my French S and had a chance to speak it, Ariva Martin, Ariviva, Go. How do you feel about this Super excited, expected this to be the case. Can't wait to hear Don how many judges upheld the Constitution todayod. I'm hoping it's nine zero, nine in favor of upholding the Constitution and the fourteenth Amendment. Look, D, this was always about whether a president can limit birthright citizenship through executive action or whether the Constitution guarantees citizenship for nearly everyone born in the United States. We can hear those cheers. so I think it's a good day for the Constitution. It's a good day for the fourteenth Amendment. It's a good day for United States citizens Can you show us the crowd, please, Daniel, as we are talking here. Simone, your thoughts on this This is what was expected, but at least we know they got a little bit of sense left Okay, they were hang they are hanging on by a thread. And with this being the foundation of one of one of the one areas where we were hoping there would all be in agreement. Now, like Areiva said, I want to see how many of the justices were in agreent Yeah. This is your this is your baileway cost. Cosim, you and Robert Hill, you're both civil rights attorneys. What does this mean to you and the citizens of America and also people who, you know, maybe Part of birthright citizenship. Yeah, Ariva and Simone beautifully said it. This is the bedrock of Amendment. We have to remember the decision mascot where a black couple sued for their freedom and were told you aren't citizens. you're basically subhuman, so therefore you don't quify as citizenship That led to the Civil War very directly. And so I just want to point out that unless this is a nine o ruling, We have You know, however many who voted against this saying that they would rather have civil war? than to have an affirmation of the humanity of people in this country. That's how dangerously close we are. And again, as I said before, anyone, any Supreme Court justice, if it wasn't already established who doesn't vote in favor of protecting birthright citizenship needs to be removed from the bench. They need to be impeached and removed by the next president because this president obviously won't do it. But that's how close we are, subp precarious we are. And to the point you made before the show started, Don, I was listening in I'm a South Asian immigrant to this country. My family immigrated here because of the sacrifices of Black Americans, the blood sweat and tears spilt by Black Americans. And so I acknowledge and recognize the immense debt that we owe Back Americans and that is a fight that must continue And I see any Supreme Court justice who voted against birthright citizenship as it shot across the bow, an act of violence that needs to be responded by removing them from the bench and replacing them with somebody who's actually going to uphold the Constitution properly Do we know what Clarence Thomas did on this I'm going to find us soonough. Let's see. I'm looking it up now Yeah because'm I'm saying, I don't how would Clare Clarence Thomas How does he by the way, he went to Congress. Was it today or yesterday? I think it was today. Yeah yesterday,esterday because it's early there yesterday I'm a couple of hours ahead of you guys. So He went yesterday, but would not talk about why he was there or who he met with. And' like, why is the Supreme Court justice going to the Congress where the congressional leaders, their offices are and not talkking about of course, they were talking about this. The thing is Clarence Thomas is a black man. is going to overturn a Dred Scott decision, the fourteenth Amendment. if he's going to vote for that, I'm not sure how he did it and then vote to gut the civil rights the Voting rightights Act It's just unfathomable to me. I don't know how he looks in the mirror I really don't Simone Oh he shouldn't. No, I completely agree. And what we're saying, I think Cassine hinted at this, What we're saying is that they just keep moving the field goal post Every time there's a little bit of progress, they say, okay, well we're just gonna to rewrite the rules. And so why we have this fear of this new Supreme Court manyany of which I want to be really clear. a lot of people don't realize why we have nine justices We have nine Supreme Court justices because initially there were only nine federal Supreme cour Appellate courourts correction, Aellate court. Now now they're thirteen And now there are that Yeah. So when we talk about expanding the court, initially people talking about it they sound nets like cuckoo, but it actually follows the logic So also would allow moving the field goal pulse as it's been done before, but to neutralize and bring this back to the rule of law that we want to know Robert Held this offered you any hope about the civil rights cases you're working on notot specifically, but I also, like everybody else, want to know how many of the justices dissented if there's a single justice that's significant And you know, you don't have to be a lawyer. The Constitution on this particular amendment is a single sentence And You know, without any legal eese, it says, if you're born in this country You're a citizen And to try to weave a legal argument or a political argument or a racial argument anything other than Words matter. And the plane English words say if you're born here, you're a citizen for the court and for lawyers to argue otherwise is Really distasteful, it's worse than that. And again I think it's appropriate for The Supreme Court justustices, the Department of Justice, which I keep coming back to to adhere to the rule of law That one point is the overarching point that needs to be made that plain English is plain English. You don't have to be a lawyer to understand that if you're born here, you're a citizen and I'm glad the court affirmed that simple constitutional amendment A reb What Costum was talking about was sort of my preamble to this whole show about don't get a twisted when people say, you know, everything isn't about race Everything in this country is about race and it runs through black people And if you look at the rights, as Cosom said, for people who are, you, maybe as we call them hyphenated, we're hyphenated. We're African American, right and or Asian American or whatever it might be. But the rights that people have gained in this country have come through in large part blood sweat and tears and sadly lost lives of black people in this country. This is the Dred Scott decision, the fourteenth Amendment that granted thatfic that black people in this country have full citizenship. And if they can tear that down and get rid of that, then imagine what they can do with every and everyone else. It's the same thing with what they did with the Voting Rights Act. If they can strike down the Voting Rights Act or at least gut it, then they can discriminate against Indian Americans or Latino Americans or whatever. It makes it just that much easier. And it shows you the importance of the contribution of black people to civil rights in America and our importance in history American history Yeah, no doubt about that, D. I'm so glad to hear all of your panelists acknowledging the blood sweat tears, sacrifices, advocacy, the organizing, all of the efforts by bllack people in terms of the civil rights that so many of us enjoy today. I just wish down on some of these issues like the gutting of the Voting Rights Act that we saw more people, more people who believe in our cononstitutions, people who believe in our democracies standing up. and speaking out and fighting back on these issues and recognizing that if they're coming for us They're coming for you next And even though the Voting Rights Act and so many of the cases that we've been talking about in the media have to do with the drawing or redrawing of districts in certain states that are predominantly black voting districts that this isn't just about black people, that black people have always fought for the rights of all people, not just different races, different ethnities ethnicities but for women for people who are disabled for any marginalized group in this country's always been black people on the front lines fighting for their rights. And sometimes, John, I don't know about you, but sometimes I feel like We are alone in this fight. and O groups don't recognize that if they come for black people if they eliminate the rights that we have fought for whether they're voting rights or DI or you know, the rights to go to school or the rights to be in jobs, then it's only that next group is going to be next. And so I hope today that all Americans can appreciate the importance of the fourourteenth Amendment and Robert is write simple words All persons born and I should add, or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction are citizens of the United States. And that's been the law of this land for over you know, one hundred and twenty five years, that's how the Supreme Court at least has interpreted that language. And the consequences of a decision that would have said otherwise would have been beyond I think you know what any of us can imagine. In this case, Don, I wanted to just give Dononna just I'm sorry not to interrupt. I got the number of I got which judges agreed and which disagreed. I pulled the receipts. And Clarence Thomas, but Clarence Thomas voted to get rid of birthight citizhip, amm I correct? Of course he did, Of course. Oh Yes. Do want me to readem off to you? You want me to read it off? Okay, so Justice Roberts delivered the opinion of the court in which so to my air Kagan. Barrett and Jackson joined in Jackson also filed a concurring opinion. mean she agreed, but there was more she wanted to say, which Soter Sootom Mayer also joined in with in part. and then Kavanagh filed an opinion also concurring, but dissenting in another part. And then Con, I mean, Clarence Thomas Wild a dissenting opinion in which Gorsick joined Oh, uh as well as Alito. So basically Clarence Thomas Gorset and Alito. sent All right. Ariba finish your thoughts, sorry, we would' to get that break. No just say this case is so much bigger than just the issue of immigration. It's really about the power of the executive branch. seen by Donald Trump Ava, how long have we known each other? I knew when your daughter was be We're not going to date ourselves, D. We've known each other a long time. Okay, okay. All right, let me just say though Ariva. Clarence Thomas. How long have we been talking Come on now But d Why would we expect anything different from Clarence Thomas? Clarence Thomas is going to be Clarence Thomas He is on that court for a reason and he's going to be the puppet. He's going to be the lackey. He's going to be you know, used by Donald Trump and the MAGa and the MAGa right in the ways that he has shown himself willing to do. So I'm not surprised by his desscent. I'm not surprised by the descent of Alito. I'm not even surprised by Gorset. I mean They are there for a reason and Donald Trump knew what he was doing. He didn't put Clarence Thomas on the court. So let's be clear about that. But he did stack the court in a way to get decisions like the ones we've been seeing over the last several years. And so I'm not surprised, but I agree with every guest that says any judge, any justice that you know, Vote it. and determined that the fourourteenth Amendment doesn't guarantee citizenship to all people born in this country or naturalized in this country and they' you know folks born from them isn't worthy, isn't fit to be on our Supreme Court Listen, guys, I want you guys to make sure you hit the like and the thumbs up and subscribe to the channel. We're doing very important news here and giving you very important information. I'm joined by a number of guests, Ariva Martin Kasa Mashid, Robert Hell, Simone Redwine, all attorneys, and they're breaking down what's happening at the Supreme Court now. Daniel Grindes is also our correspondent that is on the ground U now and I'm not sure if he's here if he has a guest in or are you are you there? Daniel, are you with us He's not with us. Okay. So what do you what do you got? I mean, any reaction to Clarence Thomas, any of you and and I cost him. I was I posted yesterday that his wife behind the last interurrection and he's behind this one And it's, you know, and he's proving proving me right. And you know I feel like when you study the history of Clarence Thomas U and the history of how he got on the Supreme Court it was, you know, we all remember the testimony of Anitah Hill. we see how he was validated by Joe Biden. who I'm not a fan of because of what he failed to deliver after promising to save the soul of America and among other reasons. You look at the fact that his wife U I think before I got married as part of a cult, And then after they got married, she kind of went back into this cultish mindset as well. And there's this really just stunning article, I think in the Washington Post from like around the time they got married. where you know, she talks about how she brought Clenus to meet his family and and her family was comommenting that they loved him so much, they didn't even see him as black as if that was a compliment. And so this is kind of the mentality he's had. his entire life. and it's just the hypocrisy of someone who got to go to all the I leag schools and got the benefit. I'm sure he worked hard. I'm not taking that away from him. But then to close the door behind him to everyone else is kind of emblematic of what the right has become in this society. So it does not surprise me. In fact, I thought it was going to be eight to one with him being the only one I unfortunately made the mistake of giving Alito and ges us too much credit which is a mistake that I should not have made But again, this is they are telling us who they are. They are telling us that they will seize every opportunity possible to take power and to strip America down to, you know, you know, Dr. Abram Kenny's written a great book about the greatreat replacement theory because that's what they believe. I don't know Why Clarence Thomas thinks that you know, has the complexion for protection to quote Paul Mooney. he does not But just remember, it's going to get worse. and this is why I say, you know, I'm a guy who focuses on solutions And the next president has to be aggressive on this, expand the court and protect our rights because otherwise we're not going to have a democracy much longer I don't disagree. Daniel Grams our correspondence there, Daniel, do you have I thought you had an attorney with you So who is with Norm Ison I do and we're going to speak to him next, but we've got a lemon head here Lewis who loves the show watches everyday ten and five and he came out. You can see he's clearly a big fan of the president. So he just has a couple of comments, then we'll we'll talk. I don't know if we can show that. That will get us de mononetized Dan.. Okay, we cant show your shirt. It's going to get it to de monetiz. So I'm going to go up here just show your face, but can you just tell us what brings you all here today? I'm not here today because I wanted to be here. to here firsthand the birth Fright citizenship thing And as I want to remind all of women here that the birthright citizenship is not just about brown people, it's about us also. they want to use this as a precursor to go back to claim from eighteen sixty three that because our ancestors were slaves, we are not citizens today. So I wanted to be a firsthand to hear that. And for I can walk around my fam shirt on and let Republicans know what I think about them you I say than you.. Joh says, thank you. All right, than you, sir. Now we're gonna to get over here I chat with you. We are live here at Don's show. if you want to come over. All right, Don, do you have any questions before I jump in? No, I just want to make sure I just want to know how he feels about it. andnt tell him I said, thank you for joining him joining us and it's good to see him Juan Don says thank you for joining us and he just wants to know generally how are you feeling about this decision? I'm very relieved actually. you know, we've been working on this for over two years. You know, We actually filed the first lawsuit on birthright citizenship against this president in his executive order And, you know, very pleased that it,, you know hold up the fourteenth Amendment of the Cstitution. Now, arere you surprised by the decision that it's not nine no? I am not surprised by that, notot with this court at the end of the day. You know, obbviously it would have been very nice, but you know, we expected something different. six three was probably you the worst case scenario. We thought maybe there may be a seven two decision, but we'll take the six three win someone like Justice Clarence Thomas who is here, an African American, obviously, the fourteenth Amendment deals with with slavery and people being citizens, just what are your thoughts on his particular joining this decision U you know, he had no comment yesterday when he was walking through Congress yesterday. I think I will reserve and say no comment on his particular decision att least until I have The opportunity to read through the full dissent. And that's kind of unprecedented, right? Like him going to Congress to speak with the speaker of the House. Can you just talk to us about how unprecedented that is? Is they confirm that at the end of the day? He was there. Oh yes. Oh we He was there, but I'm not sure he's not saying. I'm not sure we confirmed who he's speaking with There's a lot of things obviously in in his history Um, that, you know cause a lot of questions and create a lot of questions in regards to that his close proximity to the president, his administration, and some of these high network donors that have supported him and his wife Lastly, does this leave the door open for any future decisions to any future presidents to challenge birthrightight citizenship? orr is that closed I mean, again, I gott to agad through the full opinion at the end of the day. I mean, look, there were different wins, if you will, today. and so you know Obviously, the president can't rewrite the Constitution by theiat, but there could be potential attacks. and we have to be really cognizant of that and be very vigilant and protective. All Dwn, any other questions before I let them go I do not, But thank you so much. I'm not sure, Daniel, if it was confirmed that he met with the speaker, but he was in Congress and you guys can maybe have some reporting that he didn't In fact, meat with the speaker of the House, but why else would he be at the office building where you know congressional leadership is, if not to speak to someone about something? He wasn't just there for a stroll in the hallways. That's exactly right, Don. He was not there to get some fresh air. so I mean it's just corruption that goes on both in front of the cameras and behind the scenes with not just this administration, but obviously the handpicked justices and he was not handpicked by Trump, but might as well have been. Yeah So thank you, thank you, Daniel. I appreciate it to my attorneys, my legal minds. I feel like Nancy Grace, to the lawyers An final words because I think we got the answers already that we need and there's no need to belabor the point because we know what happened with transgender athletes. That was you could have you we could have called that one, but people were concerned about birthright citizenship. although most people thought it would go the way that it did, you cannot be sure with this particular court Dn, U Care Thomas Clarence Thomas is not going to be removed through the impeachment process. That's not going to happen. So I want to echo what Cosim said earlier, which is that every person must channel their energy into an appropriate venue to help accomplish pololitical change to ensure that there's economic prosperity and that it is across all classes of all kinds And if everybody did something, whatever that is because we all have different resources and abilities and motivations Ebody should participate in this democracy. One way or the other And they need to do it now And I just want to add to that Robert, I completely agree with you. and I think what every citizen, everyone is going to be voting and I hope will be voting in these midterm elections need to ask their representatives, the people they plan to vote for, will they support form for the Supreme Court becausecause if we don't reform our Supreme Court, we are going to contin continuously find ourselves Qioning very tenets of our democracy, having to even ask the question about whether you are a U. S. citizen if you were born in the United States. Look at all the time, effort, energy, resources being spent on a question that is so fundamental. So this is a time for everyone that wants to represent us in Congress in the U. S. Senate, in state houses around this country What are you going to do to ensure that we don't have ten more years, twenty more years with this Supreme Court stacked in the way that it is Making rulings in the way that they do that support the MAGA right, which is not how the majority of Americans in this country believe and feel about our democracy. So Supreme Court reform is on the ballot Ariva, think about it. as they were saying that, think about we're in a moment now where people are saying, I didn't expect a nine zero decision on something that has been the norm forever and the Constitution. and immigration is that's part of it that's what we were proud of, that we were America, that immigrants were allowed to come in this country. immmigrants, E every single aspect of this country was built by immigrants. Except for the Native Americans, which helped to build it for free Except for the Latino Americans or Mexican Americans that the border crossed. they didn't cross the border, except for African Americans who helped to build it for free. Basically everything is about immigration in this country Besides that. And we're built by immigrants. That's what I understand why We were just we're sitting here going, well, we didn't expect a nine, you know zero for the Supreme Court. That's really sad that we're in this place. So sad. And you know what's ironic, D, I'm no lover of You know, any Republican president, definitely not Ronald Reagan, but Ronald Reagan, you know, was the biggest believer in immigration and talked, you know in such a folesome way about immigration. So to see where the Republican Party is today, that the Republican Party would even support someone like Donald Trump who has such a negative and you know offensive view about immigrants Although, you know, his parents is white, we can talk about all the folks that he's affiliated with that are immigrants is really, really ironic. Yes Simone I've been reading I've been looking down here. I've been actually reading Clarence Thomas's disscent and his opinions on here. And what I'm seeing is the way this man literally Dances for Trump tap dances for the Republican Party. in this ruling alone, he has literally redefined citizenship in those issues because he didn't want to simply agree that the law is clear clut, so he's redefined it. So what I'm saying is that That level of Their ability to literally vie for the interpretations that the Trump administration wants. It means don't take any right for granted because everything is on the ballot as Reiva has said, because whatever you've held that we held is just absolute right we have as Americans, they're rewriting it before our eyes. Yeah, I just want to close out real quickly. Re's point's so important. If you look at the nineteen eighty presidential debate between Reagan and Bush They're arguing with each other on who could be more compassionate to immigrants. Reagan goes as far as to say we should have open borders because it's economically beneficial for all of us. I mean, imagine if somebody in the Republican Party or the Democratic Party said that today, they would be ran out of politics. permanently And this is the manand that Republicans hold as the icon, calling for open borders. And so I also I agree much as I would love for him to be impeached, he's not going to be. So Robert is exactly right. Get involved in some kind of organization. There are plenty of know ACLU organizations, Breren the Center for Justice, invest in independent media like Don. I mean, there are organizations and people speaking truth to power and maintaining accountability Channel that anger into something productive. don't just seede with it canle it and together we will get the change we need Casa, thank you so much for saying that because I just went to, I know it's a little bit off, but not really. I just went to a conference in Cannes, France and that's why I'm ahead of time here and exhausted And it was everything is all about creators and independent journalists in media now The there this is the independent economy We were the stars, leegacy media. I felt like they were the sort of the stepchildren. I was like, what is going on here And it's because of I believe You can some of you have been on mainstream television with me is because mainstream media now gives room to people who come on just to lie and I think people are sick of it. And that's how we get to this. That's how you get at Donald Trump That's how you get a Supreme Court that's like this. by people who are able to go ono those platforms and spread lies with impunity and are encouraged to do it. And then you come to a place like this And people are like I'm like, no, no, no, you're not going to do it. You notice there are no people on goingo. This is how it should be We this isn't a citizen the citizenship is about. this is no, that's bullshit. We know what it's about. We know what the C constitution is about. We know it's right. We don't believe in false equivalence here. Go ahead, Rob. I'm sorry. Yeah, No, it's it's much worse than that. Certain the legacy media, as your viewers well know had Barry Weiss take over CBS and order sixty minutes to say that Rene Nicole Good was turning her wheel into the agent into the agent. everybody has seen that video countountless times she was turning away. And there you have legacy media and a newly installed head of that network ordering sixty minutes, the venerable program to say something that was untrue, patently so And in the face of the video evidence otherwise, it's unbelievable Well, thank you all. I appreciate it. Simone, Robert Awesome, Ariiva. Thankk you so much. Ariiva, say hello to your beautiful daughter All right everybody on the show. T beautiful, smart and intelligent Young lawyers, young fresh opinions. so. Thank you. I would love it. Thank you very much All right Yes, absolutely. Let us give us we need when do we know someone that can get our contact information So thank you guys, I appreciate it. Thank you guys. We appreciate all of them. and we all appciate we want to get back real quickly to our correspondent in Washington DC because it wasn't just birthright citizenship that was decided. It was also transgender athletes, especially in lower schools. G ahead Yeah, Dawn, that's right. And I'm here with Ellie who is transgender and she just wants to talk about the case and how it impacts transgender people in general. So Eie, first is what are your thoughts on this rule This is a massive step back for trans rights in this country and for the lives of trans kids and trans people everywhere We know that every time there is a legal ruling on our rights in this country, we know that transr people's lives are affected in a really big impactful practical way At the end of the day, I want to see trans kids live. I want to see the next generation of trans people grow up and grow old and flourish. And if society is saying to them that we need to go back into the closet and that we need to be in spaces where we're not wanted or where we can't be visible, then that will have a real world impact on the future of our community and the future of queer and trans folks. What Alex, what do you say to those conservatives who are excited about this who say, listen, this is all about fairness I think it's a fundamental misunderstanding, especially for those, especially trans feminine people who are on HRT. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of what HRT does to the body, right? the effects of HRT on muscle mass and the way our bodies change. And so you know, even beyond that, we're talking about elementary, middle, high school, college kids, We are not talking about you know grown adults, right? And so just this one way in which we're able to include trans folks, which really does have an effect as we know on the mental health of trans people and trans youth. I really think that It's a lack of compassion and it's a lack of acceptance of reality and because they don't want to ask the question. they don't want to sit down with trans people and ask about their experience. They don't want to know what dysphoria does to a person. They don't want to understand what transition means and what transness means. they're interested in demonizing a group of people that they don't know to make up for the fact that they are unhappy in another facet of their life that they don't want it implicate other people other systems in that. I'm targeting, we talked about this yesterday. such a small minority of people. I mean, we're talking about trans youth in sports. I mean in the tens of people, I didn't know the thousands. So lastly, I know we were chatting before we hopped on. were we were both equally surprised by just But Darth and people coming out here today. Can you talk about that? Yeah, I think a lot of trans people are scared. And I think, especially as a DC local, I've seen the way that our community has been affected specifically by the federal surarch policies of the president and the way that know he brings all of this militarism into the city. And I think trans people and just normal like regular old people whether they're trans or cis or queer or straight, it doesn't matter. like we are scared to exist in our own city. and I think that we have a lot of work to do around safety and protecting each other. And I think that really does start you know on our boxs in neighborhoods. and we've done a great job of doing that, but we need to take it to the streets. it starts with people like you Elli. thanks for joining us. Thank you All right, Don, so yeah I mean, as you said, there were a couple of decisions here today and real impact on real people's lives Daniel, I'm going to give you some breaking news that maybe you can help us with or maybe not, but this is according to NPR, Justice Samuel Alito, who wrote the opinion overturning Roe v Wade retires. That's NPR's reporting. Justice Samuel Alito whoote the Supreme Court's opinion reversing Roe v Wade is retiring. The court announced on Tuesday, Alito was nominated to the court in two thousand five by President George W. Bush to fill the seat vacated by Justice Sandra D. O'Connor In the history of the Supreme Court, the names of just a few justices are linked with a single very famous or infamous decision. Chief Justice John Marshall for his groundbreaking decision in eighteen oh three, declaring that courts have the power to strike down laws that violate the Constitution. Chief Justice Roger Tanney then it goes on to talk about that, but the crux of the story is and the main story Justice Samuel Alito at least according to the reporting from NPR is retiring has announced his retirement And it would happen just as I got rid of some of my attorneys who were here just moments ago. And I think they would say what I'm about this Stand by, Dani, canan you stand by? I'm gonna get Cosum Rashid back in. Cosum, you're an attorney. you're back. Yeah. Alito retiring. We just learned. your thoughts. Breaking news. I'm just learning this right now. That's Wow. Donald Trump will get a fourth. pick to the Spreme Court. I mean, Alito has been one of the most corrupt Jices in modern American history all the way back from the Exon case that he ruled on. Wait a minute, stand by, stand by, stand by. We're getting a thing from Nina Tottenberg saying that NPR is now retracting the story. I'm glad I'm glad we attributed it to NPR So which is what we did. W. Okay You're still one of the most trouble justs in history and I hope you're tires. And I can't imagine someone would worse if trouble will find someone worse. so I think also a reminder, Don that this president has already picked most of this court and I mean, a lot of these I mean Clarence Thomas is up there in age. Alito is up there in age. So It's not unlikely that this president's going to be able to have another pick before he leaves office, which is just frightening. I But here's the thing though. you know what, Cosim and Daniel, maybe this is the reason just because they you know, he's not doing it now. mayaybe it's in the wind. mayaybe they know at the Spreme Court and maybe that's why Clareance Thomas was at Congress. Yes C be could be And I also wonder what role Mitch McCotdle plays in this because he's been in the hospital for fourteen days. No one seen him. So That could have an impact as well which is this is the delicious irony of it all. Anyway, happy to that. Thank you, customin But guys as they say, as Gilda Rad used to say on the SNL, never mind . That's why that's why attribution is so important, Dwn. You say, listen. I know. You heard me saying I said I said, according to the NPR reporting, so there we go. All right Daniel, than you. I appreciate it. Thank you. And now everyone, you're informed. And so look, what an exciting. That was exciting. We got some news that was breaking and then they broke the breaking news. We got more breaking news. So maybe it did get leaked. I think there is something is going to happen as it relates to one of these justices, M maybe it's Clarence Thomas, who knows. So we'll bring that to you throughout the day. If there' some breaking news like that, some big breaking news, we'll bring it to you. So now you're informed and I want you to be informed without being inundated. I also want you to go check out downleinon. com. willill you promise me that as you hit the like and the thumbs up, even on the way out. Go check out Donleemmon. com and check out the tour dates for DL and DL, meaning Don Lemmon and Dio Hugley. It is right there. You can click and get your tickets. DL and DL. anything goes We are going around the country. 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And once you're on this, go back to Dleemmon. com. cheheck out our merch page And there are other platforms as well that you can subscribe to. You can go to Substack or Twitch, but check out theer merch page. We've got lots of stuff in there. U that you can buy including a Lemon nated twenty eight shirt I'm just saying Every time I get something happens with one of these things, it just makes me think, it's time, it's time. It's time. I need someone who would want to expand the Supreme Court That person would be me because I think that it should be corrected and the Supreme Court should be expanded That's my personal belief. Okaykay? So inform it about being inoated, and so I stay back here at five PM Eastern time here on the downl limed ch on the downlimment channel, turn the TV off. Thanks for watching everybody. I appreciate you. Make sure you like, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you don't miss anything We're live weekdays at ten AM and five PM Eastern with new content at two PM Eastern, sometimes at eight PM Follow the Don Lemon Show whereerever you are. YouTube, TikTok, Instram, Facebook, Twch, Substack, Spotify, iH radio, Apple podcasts. We are everywhere. and we're there every day. And if you want a little more, join the Limit community, exclusive posts, behind the scenes, live chats Just hit join or check the channel pages. All right I'll see you next time