Williams Challenges and Team Performance

They've gotten rid of everyone that's made this team what it is today. There's going to be a lot of pressure when the new kid on the block comes in. Obviously this year, you can put it in the garbage. Has there been a card actually in effect? It just doesn't seem to good be going his way. I regard him as Britain's greatest ever sportsman. He had to focus on Lewis. Hey, if he was able to do that, that would be absolutely legendary Louis turned and said to me, Go and man the door. That was the doorstop. I think we've got a real great one in store for us. He was going to eat him alive. And he did. I have the podium trophy with me. It's a great spectacle to watch Hello everybody and welcome to the F one show sponsored by Audi. As you can see, it's someone different behind the wheel for this episode, our lead driver and all the official reserves unavvailable today. So I've being thrown into the cockpit for this one. Hopefully I can keep it out the barriers helpeling me to stay on track for these well cooldown laps after the Spanish Grand Prix in Barcelona and maybe some reconnaissance slaps ahead of Austria our nineteen ninety seven World Champion, Jaces Vilouvve. Are are you all good Very good, very good. And also our F one grid insider, Matt Amos. and Matt, this is a kind of podcasting blind date for you and I. We haven't crossed paths before. I know you buy your work, so yeah, let's hope it goes well. I'm sure it will. You enjoyed the weekend in Spain, no doubt. Yeah, it was very, very hot, but it was very, very exciting. And what a historic race to end the run of Barcelona out of seeing Lewis get his first proper official win with Ferrari has been fantastic to see in person and yeah, really excited to talk about it more with you guys Absolutely. let's get right into it, Sarken. and First of all, The dust has settled a little bit, but I want to start with you Just to maybe appraise in sporting historical terms how significant that victory was for Lewis Hamilton. He's the first driver in his forties to win a Grand Prix For fifty six years, he is now nineteen years between his first and his latest victory. It's a first win at Ferrari after the year he had last year. just what does it all add up to It was a key victory, an important one because You know, he had really a tough season last year, a tough few seasons, but joining Ferrari, there's always this doubt. you know, it's the culmination of a career. Can you win with Ferrari or not because that's what we willll show if you're really incredible or just, you know, good driver that's won a lot of races. even if you've won all the records because the rest of the career was always Mercedes, the car to beat Nobody could beat the Mercedes anyways, so it was either Lewis or his teammate U winning with Ferrari now And how if you look at how many difficult seasons Ferrar' Ferrari have had And it looks like, wf, Lewis joined one tough year. He's helped build the team and ended up winning It's it's amazing for him. So you have the, you know, the biggest global sportsman on the planet, winning with the, you know, the biggest global brand motoracing anyway. So join the two together after tough times Amazing I mean Does this now justify Matt the move to Ferrari, did you worry at any stage that Lewis made had made the wrong move So I think many Lewis Hamilton fans when he first initially announced that he was moving to Ferrari, I think most of us kind of were thinking this is going to be the retirement plan. this is going to be endgame. and ultimately everyone's dream when you're coming into Formula one for the first time and you are kind of a true Ferrari fan. you want to see victories in red And like Jacqu was saying, you know, having those O on struggles last year And he's getting really downbeat about himself, not blaming the team but himself and to then have this new resurgence after making developments around the car has been fantastic to see. I think one of the key things for me was that he made changes of his engineer, but also you know key components on his car, changing the braking system since Japan. and since then It seems like he's gotten really comfortable with the car. And in Barcelona, this has been one of the first races where the drivers and the cars have had to deal with hot weather. And so to see that both the Ferrari on his side at least was reliable and he can get the most out of it to then have that victory for him, I think that's now given him a load of confidence to head out for the rest of the season I suppose I've got to give you, Jacques a bit of a right of reply to Lewis. and not that you were his arch critic or necessarily a chief one, but he did talk about People writing him off One or two ex drivers retiring him Was it a point where you thought It's a year or two too long in his career, maybe he should have called it quits. I love always of the opposite thought, why retire? I didn't I don't understand this. This concept of oh, it's too late. he has to retire, poor him Uh, you know, if the fire is still there Why retire? just because people want to remember a champion at his peak. And suddenly there's a bad or two season and it hurts them. Not the driver, not the sportsman himself, it hurts them as a fan and they don't want to see their hero a failing So in their mind, o, we should retire so we can keep him at his top. They're not the sportment. they don't understand what's going on. so You get there, You get a chance to drive with the biggest team to rebuild it And you're also still making, what forty, fifty, sixty million a year. Why should you retire? He wasn't running last, he wasn't qualifying last You are still out there giving his best B wasn't good enough last year because it didn't work out with his engineer with the team And it's a very selfish sport. He took his time Then became a bit more forceful, Change his engineer, chang his brake, got the card to where you wanted it to win So it's proven that All these naysayers were We're wrong. If you have the if you have the fire Thalent doesn't suddenly disappear It's all about are you willing to make the sacrifices? Are you willing to put the time and effort in it? Are you willing to questestion yourself and to realize that there's always someone better than you. and you can keep on learning You know, the same thing was said Um When you moveved to Mercedes, a lot of people, o my go, why would they leave McLaren water Why would you okay he sold this sl, he went for the money, whatever And look years, build the team around him set and started winning And that's s kind of what he's done at Ferrari Again, so always be careful with the fans perspective because it's a very selfish thought about wanting your hero to not falter I get that against that. listen I regard him as Britain's greatest ever sportsman. I think this is this is only added to that. You do want there's a natural impulse to want to see the career end in a blaze of glory rather than on a downbeaten note, But picking up on what Jackaxes just said there Mat. Building the team around him. He's forty points now clear of Charles Leclerc Is this Lewis Hamilton's team Will their focus now be on this Lewis Hamilton title bid against Kimmy Antonlli against potentially George Russell I think so. and I think it's for Ferrari to get the advantage over Mercedes because at the moment Mercedes, they're still treating both drivers very equally, a little bit like how we saw McLaren treating both Lando and Oscar for the title fight. And I think at a certain point Mercedes do need to kind of push one driver ahead, but at the moment, they're not currently doing that. And I think that's where Ferrari could potentially leapfrog that. And you know Charle Cler has been with the team for many years now and has had the opportunity to build it around him when he came and joined in with Vetel. But for some reason for whatever it might be the car, might be the team, not too sure, it hasn't quite worked. And I think with Lewis coming in, you know, coming in last year, having no struggles now with the new regs and kind of still getting used to the new team dynamic and now to the new car mechanics for that I think this could be the opportunity for them if they really like focus on onto the strategy. with the upcoming European races as well. This is where I think they might have a really good advantage for it because it's really much like Everything from Mercedades Sals, if they I grew up with the strategy in any shape or form. that's where Ferrari can really come through. But from this weekend is evidently, you know, Ferrari had the pace to beat them strictly on the track R' sure Asured in your mind likelihood that Lewis can go and win title number eight now bear in mind Lando Norris. has said if they have a slightly better engine and we know engine upgrades might be coming, they would be the class of the field. as Chassi is the best is he a decent bet? Lewis knows how to win and he knows what it takes. And if he gets a sniff of it There won't be any quarters. And I think that's where you can make the difference and Mercedes right now is not in a position to be even able or allowed to choose a driver over another Well, Ferrari is because Verari had to focus on Lewis if they want a small chance of winning The decision is easy to make because Luck it's quite far, far back Um, and you were saying before Lecette had time to build the team around him and he didn't You know, bear in mind how he came into Ferrari was you know, after an average season at Salber. and suddenly giving the huge mega contract like a world champion contract. maybe T too big too soon, too much too soon So he's never really had Build anything around him. it was given. It was there. he was quick and that was plenty because the perception, well, that's a car that kind of win the championship anyway. You win a few races, you beat your teammate, which was Vetel Um Everybody was happy then suddenly comes in Lewis lastast year who's not having a great season. He's really having hard time with the cardo team. It takes time to build this around yourself Lis is quite happy. He's looking good next to Louis But the minute Lewis woke up, the minute Lewis made that car and that team his own and he's going for it and doesn't leave any quarter Look like I's not prepared for that I mean, I was thinking a story from my own relationship with not very not very close relationship with L was friendly enough, but a professional one came to mind guys. Be Lewis is very assertive behind the scenes. He knows what he wants He has a good analytical mind. said this weekend, he's demanding things of Fred Vasa, for example. I remember once upon a time, it was more than ten years ago I was sent Mercedes needed to use my camera and they asked me to come come down and help Lewis film something. and I'm thinking, o, I'll maybe help him with some scripting, mayaybe I'll get myself a little bit into his inner circle. I'll impress him got in the room. It was some message he had to do. He'd already written the script better than anything I could do And when we got in the room There was like a door in and out and there were people O Mercedes team members coming in and out. withithin ten seconds, Lewis turned and said to me Go and man the door. That was my job. That was the doorstop. he' kind of appraised the situation and immediately knew how to best deploy me not a very significant role, But anyway, but I think he is people underestimate. I he heard all about those dossiers, but that he sent to Fred Vaser and the engineers, but he It really is kind of pushing and pushing that team About Lecler Ms Has he gone a bit stale? Ferrari is he naturally a less assertive character You know, when when you're the you're the established guy, yes, but is the new man, especially when you've got as gilded a reputation as Lewis inststantly more charismatic. Is that going to draw the team around? Lewis N Yeah, I don't want to downplay you know Leclerc's ability. He's still an incredible driver. And I think regardless of whichever team Lewis was going to go to, having, you know join your team straight away, you're always going to feel like you're in someone else's shadow. And I feel like during qualifying in Barcelon, it's where we started to see the cracks a little bit for Leclerc kind of pushing a little bit too much where he went into the corner Gone to the marbles, couldn't save the skin and went straight off. And I feelelt that that was a good example where maybe the pressure might have got to him a little bit too much I feel like any time like Lewis was going to join Williams, let's say or Alpine or whichever team it would be, any driver he was joining up with, you'd straight away feel like you're not going to be different comparisons or comparable to that. And going back to your previous points of building the team around, I feel like Last year as well was very much with Ferrari having to learn how to adapt and change as well. I feel like last year, yeet, like you're mentioning with the dosier, like Lewis giving his feedback, but Ferrari could very much keep to their own way, be very proud of what they've already established and built, but it wasn't working for them. And I feel like that's why they've adapted this season to how he's wanting the team to be around that. and that's why they're starting to see success now Maybe Leclerc on the back of that is looking thinking, I wish I could have had this approach. But at the same time though when you have someone like Sir Louis coming into the team, you're needing to make those adjustments happen because that's a lot of investment for the team to have Lewis there. So if you're not going if you're going to stick to your guns and not make any changes, then that's a huge reflection onto Fred and to the teams structure You've spoken about Chan Leclerc, Jacques. I mean, we saw We saw his crash and qualifying and then that soliloquay afterwards where he was, you know, saying how embarrassed he was and and all the rest of it What does he have to change Tack? What does he do to reassert himself Ferrari? It's tough. you know, he was just giving a lifetime contract. Um So how does that push you How does that put you a little bit on the edge? How does that make you feel like, okay, I need to deliver. I need to Ke on going to make sure that I stay good in my trade. So I'm not sure that's positive But ultimately, like I said, we started seeing the cracks because he You could see what Lewis was doing and is stressed to him and he tried to do it differently instead of just accepting that maybe that weekend he was just a little bit off and it's okay. It's a long season And there's nothing wrong learning from you know, the record older from Lewis Hamilton. Yeah L Lewis Hamilton as a teammate learn from him. twenty eight years old when a title is kind of still Maybe overdue? Is he in danger of slipping into that not quite good enough category? I good learning age, isn't it? But you know what I mean? He's been there eight years. Is he in danger of being considered They kind of nearly man or not quite good enough man. In modern F one, you're not young anymore. twenty eight. And it's not just a question of age, it's how long has he been there long, long time. I mean, he's extremely experienced driver U So he's a driver that should be at the top of his form where you don't get a lot better. You can still learn like Lewis you know, has made himself better from last year to this year. He's been very good at that But it's not the big leap. you know, it's not the big climb that you do in your first two or three seasons And lookeff has had that cl already So now he's settled at his level And he needs those little he needs to be capable of doing it. He needs to learn how to build a team around him because he's never had to. And it might just be too late because now you can see that That driver that was supposed to be told that was supposed to be burnt out not quick anymore He just arrived here And I's made this steamest teeam. He's made this car Faster for himself, more difficult for me How do I react? Well, I've never learned how to do that And that's what's happening. He had it easy with Vetel, basically Let's see how it pans out. It really is fascinating That dynamics a little bit like the one at Mercedes to a degree between Russell and Antonlli in terms of the new drivers to planting the more established one. But just a final footnote on Hamilton and Spain, Mat, and I'm sorry to land this on you as a kind of pigeonholeing as someone with a window on the on the social media and digital world. but I did witness the video call or Whatever it was WhatsApp call in in the in the TV pen. I cannot pos positively identify that it was Kim Kardashian Lewis was interacting with and whoever the American lady was that was congratulating him. But has there been a Kardashian effect? on Lewis is has he been boosted by this relationship? I mean, look, like we still don't know if it's an official relationship. At the end of the day, you know Everyone's private lives are their own thing. And like look, if he's got happiness with him I'm just really happy for him. If they're just great friends, also really happy. Either way, it just goes to show that he's got a really good supportive network around him. And I know there's loads of people joke online of, you know Kim taking you know Kimy's toel or you know like looking on and supporting him last week in Monaco and talking about the video pen here, for example, But ultimately it's just like Yeah, Lewis has got a great relationship with Kim and ultimately it's he's wanting to share the moments of success. Like we saying with his mum, you know, he said this year, he's wanting to bring his momum to a lot more of these races, having that closer network of support group around him. becausecause obviously the mental side of being a driver is so taxing O obviously, you're away for so much of the year And obviously you have so much stuff to do with the press that you still need to have that good framework around you. And I think for Lewis, he's very much he's very much a private man, private lifestyle, but he's got that good network of support around him. So hey, if he's having a call with Kim after the race, then that's fantastic Listen, we want to see him happy. He's given them so much to motorsport. It would be great if he finds that happiness in his personal life as well. But listen, moving from Kim to Kimmy Timmy and George we st these and And that dynamic. interesteresting Antonali ships eighteen points to George Russell because he has has the DNF in the race I used to be a boxing reporter, Jques This this kind of outcome We used to say in the trade that that maybe one fighter got the points decision But the other one won the street fight You know what I mean Could you look at it a little bit that way that George Russell got the points But Nantanlli by overtaking Rus Russell on track. D he show he is still the the faster that the top dog that team right now Yeah, I get your point because it was obvious that Russell was being hunted. Uh, and was done He wasn't in the same fight. He wasn't in the same game anymore. He got his qualifying all right? He got that little moment where he started believing again But once we got in the race, surprisingly, because I didn't expect, you know, Antonlli with his driving style. I didn't expect it to work in Barcelona. But once they got racing, Um, it worked. He was quick. he was getting in there. And he was going to eat him alive. And he did. He overtook him. And even when you look at the overtaking move, Russell went to the inside a little bit too late. you know it wasn't It was a flat hearted move, which is really weird. So it looked like mentally He was already beaten, even before Antony overtook him Like like we often say, you know, things go around, come around Um, Russell had mechanical failure before So it's fair. You know, Antonini shouldn't complain about that. It just rebalances things out a bit. Louis is getting the virtual safety Card. Well in Cha, you got to win because of safety card this year So it' it's it's also fine. but If you look at the Mercedes team, I think the force to be reckoned with Now is Annton Naly, L looks like Russell has plateaued and is feeling that kind of pressure from the young kid that's come in because last year, you know, he said he was very very strong and in his chats with Toto saying, Ohh yeah Anntony would be a great teammate onlyly because he thought, oh, easy one to beat And I realized oops, maybe that was a mistake. That's not the teammate I should have had because with this teammate, I won't be world champion this year. And that's old part and pro. Whenever a driver says, oh, this teammate will be perfect for team because He believes it will destroy him and it will be a piece of cake easy. And that's not what turned out into. So not a very easy and good situation for for Russell on the other hand. When you looked at Nntone, couldn't hold his neck, which was incredible It's been a long time since we've seen a driver spend half their race with, you know, with the heck, the neck hanging out that that was really odd. So because when you look at him, he looks fit, you know, it doesn't look like a skeleton. So he looks like the muscles, the bulk is there So I'm not sure what was going on there. Maybe it was just you know, relaxing Well, it is a very demanding track is that first really high speed one, I guess of of the year. There' another I want to take a bit more into what Russell said after the race. and I suppose we have to balance everything Matt with he did take a good poll which will have given him some confidence. He was saying to me afterwards, while I was partly in my mind thinking I was going to switch to a three stop to cover Lewis and that left me. That left me weak in the final part of the second and third stints Do you buy that or will he have been demoralized by how Antonlli came at him and passed them? I think it's a bit of both because yeah, we heard during the team radio that like he was just maintaining his tyres rather than pushing. And it seems like this has happened a few times this season so far, particularly on George's side where the plans originally have kind of changed, but he hasn't been informed on what they would be And so from what I saw at least from the beginning of the race, he was very much maintaining his distance with Lewis. I mean, like at the very start of the race, he defended it very well, no like issues going into turn one and then held the lead very comfortably. But then it just seems like the strategy kind of just actually halted him quite a fair amount I do think he has had some obviously there's going to be a lot of pressure when the new kid on the block comes in wins his five five races in a row. Obviously for your other driver is going to feel a bit demoralizing a little bit because it's the same machinery. I think George's position almost asounds like his big brother and have like, yeah, your younger brother come through and like is already beating you like just easily on circuit. And then like we saw at the very end of the race, you know, like Kimmy hunting him down. and almost like they having just a whole position just for to appease Mercedes rather than just letting Kimmy, you know, potentially even having a shot going down towards towards going down towards Lewis. I think it's a really interesting sort of dynamic to sort of jump parallels between like Russell and Lecler's situation a little bit. It's very much like You got these drivers coming in who are having a lot book more success. Is it more of a mental thing? is it more of a reliability thing? becausecause yeah, Mercedes reliability has been a big talking point this season And it still seems like even at Barcelona, which is a trek all teams know of and they're trying to get the most out of the machinery stuff is still breaking down and we're like although we're almost at the halfway point this season We're needing that reliability to come through, especially with this weekend when we' had so many upgrades coming into it Who is more likely to beat their teammate this year Charlot LeClair or George Rustin. What do you think That's a tough one because I mean, Lewis is on a roll now. He believes But so does Antonll you see it with his comments. Well, I was quicker. I would have so he's really starting to to move forward in this in this narrative Antonlli, which he didn't have until now. us. I don't see either of them actually beating their teammates. That's what's difficult. that there isn't that kind of momentum or energy. There's this big self doubt. So at least not until the summer break or until something major happens, you know, a race where things really, really go amazingly well and bad for the teammate where now, which we would call the number two in a way in the situation would start believing, oh, actually no,'m I'm still special. I'm still in it. And right now there is that doubt in place and that doubt makes you go a little bit slower. That doubt makes you choose the wrong setup It takes you away from that aggress aggressiveness that you need as a driver. You need that belief to go for that extra tamp that setup that will be maybe a little bit more on the but will allow you to go better, you need that belief We're len great stuff feers. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, we will be looking at the weekend for McLaren, the Double World Champions. We'll be asking a few questions about that Red Bull Verstappen management meeting that took place in Austria and we'll be digging into the can of worormms. That is the like the Gazli Hajo Podium disispute for Monaco. As you can see, I have the podium trophy with me until that issue is resolved. But join us in a few minutes to explore all those issues Hello there everyone. Welcome back to the F one show sponsor by Audi. I'm with Jacques Villeuve and Matt Amos. This isn't by the way the third place trophy from the Monaco Grand Prix. is something I picked up a few years ago. But anyway let's look at McLaren And their weekend. It was me to be Jacques, the weekend where they took a big step forward Lando Norris inherited the podium, but wouldn't have had if others didn't hit trouble Where is Norris? Where are McLaren right now I was very happy with what I saw about Norris. He had pace. He had more pace than expected And like the other like the Ferrarian and and and the Mercedes. You see a gap in between the two teammates there uh, where Norris seems to be continuing with last year's second half second half of the season momentum Driving like a champion You know, maximizing what the c can give, getic on the setup because he was in a fight for the podium on pace. He was just there just at the door to be able to reco where his teammate wasn't and and then and that's what a bit worrying because if you have two or three tenth difference This could mean a proodium or seventh or eighth. That's how the group is in the middle. So U No Noris should be very happy with his weekend because he really maximized U everything he had. He wasn't out there thinking, I'm world Champion now. I don't, you know, I don't need to push that hard. I just can take it because the car is not winning anyw. Why should I bother No? He still has that that fired up energy going to want to think make things better to go for proodoms and maybe and end up going for a win like what happened with Lewis Yeah, we're listen, u Norris blaming Matt the fact that he was in a an extended title battle, particularly with Max Verstappen as it turned out towards the end of last year that maybe McLaren focused an awful lot on that and didn't prepare as much for this year As for Max, who obviously didn't win that batle agonizingly by a couple of points last year lonely race for him in Spain. Ultimately he inherited fourth, but I'm interested in What this summit meeting was all about. Oliver Menschlav Bs headad of all the sporting projects Rreeman V Marlin Maxis manager, Max himself Josh Verstappen having this discussion, Max himself saying, well He wasn't going to talk about it People can see where I am, they can ask questions, but I only answer the ones I want to answer. If there's something on my end, I'll let you know. that's just how it is What do you think? Are they signaling Max wants out or a pathway for him to stay Is it still a question mark? How big a question mark? He moves at the end of this year? Yeah, I think it might just be that we're just slowly starting to see him move into more of a leadership role within the team. Obviously, when you kind of think of Red Bull racing, you straightway think of Max and obviously, they've had a huge reshuffle over the last kind of two years or so bothoth of the Red Bull family and also the racing team themselves. and they're needing more stability within that. And to obviously retain Max is one thing, but to then have them to have a bit more of a controlling factor, I think is potentially what this meeting might have actually been is one of those where you do need to have these hard decisions of like, okay, how's the team operating? What's the next five to ten years looking like you know, talking about the Red Bull power trains, keeping on top of the momentum with that. So I feel like with this one Although yes, it could be very much seen as like a secret meeting. I think it might actually be, you know I see Max moving more into those leadership roles, just more behind the scenes rather than like a, oh, he's now becoming like a team princial kind of approach. Do you agree with that, Jacques, that Red Buller are finding a way to by offering Max these responsibilities and allowing him to that it could be kind of his team. That might entice him to stay or is he always going to just want the fastest car? Well they need they need to find a way to try and keep him there because he's the only good thing in the team right now other than the engine because as we found out, the engine is Very good. when they made their cal anyway that the the ice part of the engine It's become a very political place in the last two or three years. It seems that there's so much internal strife on who's going to lead, who's going to do that and everybody's been kicked out U it's it's really and it's very difficult to to see a good future at Red Bull. It's really odd. It looks like, you know, they've they've read they've read the wave. it' it's on the it's, you know, right now they're going going down and you need Devin reached bottom yet. So that's a That's a tough one. It's lost its sparkle. Nody talks about the Red Bull team as their o the crazy fun ping, they will always find a solution. No, they're not even part of the equation anymore talkalk about them. we just talk about It' stop on max, but you know, than God he's there because you can still drive hard this car hard That's more the the narrative right now, not the team, but Max So it's a tough place I've gotten rid of everyone that's made this team what it is today which which which is crazy because even Max arrived afterwards, arrived after the team had been built He was the last addition to the team, but now he's the last remaining soldier. And that that makes it really, really tough because he cannot just handle the team on his own. He can't just suddenly He's not a car designer. He's very good at developing a car, saying what saying what's needed. but you still need the people around you. but as you see, even Elmt Markle was pushed aside and now it looks like all the young dririver program is kind of like nobody's talking about it anymore. So everything has kind of been destroyed and has to be rebuilt, but how will it be rebuilt? And for that, we need to wait for all the political aspects to be settled is certainly a big job is a big job for Lure Laurel Mckes. Listen, we'll move on.ll we'll see how that goes question, I suppose one remaining from Monaco is will Red Bull get a podium Well E at Kjar, hang on to that podium. As we're recording this, we still don't know if McLaren and Red Bull will follow through with their notice of intention to appeal the decision to give the podium to Gazley. Matt, what do you think at the end of it all? will Gazley keep the podium or not I think Gazley will keep the podium. and from what I've heard from the paddock and stuff, this is a great insight I was able to have over the weekend. Red Bull have still not given back the trophy, which is like I think it's one of those where there was clearly there was a mistake from the timing systems, which all the teams should be able to pitch in to get their results changed for that but then It won't it shouldn't then affect how yeah Gazy because Gazy, we all kind of saw that that yeah, he got P three and because of the penalty wasn't able to have that excitement. Even on these on his cooldown lap, he was celebrating into the crowd until with the touramict team eventually told him of his penalty. But I think we could all look at that and say it's fair for him to keep that In terms of the other teams, I'm not too sure how much it will then change the remaining standings from that. But yeah, if Gazlee's one has won, then all the other teams who got the penalty should also do their same. We heard plenty from you on this, Jacques over the course of the weekend. I know you think it's pretty much a mess. Listen a good weekend for racing bulls You have the Williams cononnection obviously, Jack disappointing messy weekend there Can they dig themselves out of this situation You know, the car was born overweight. So that that's That's tough. I mean, the team has been very vocal about it as well. So there's no secret there U But this is just time given away U per, you know, there's there's a fixed number, like ten ten kilograms of weight when you talk about fuel is about four tenth of a second, depending on the track And Barcelonaiza Hire is one of the higher tracks for that. So obviously you're giving that away It's tough to recuperate it with setups. So then you try maybe to go a bit too extreme on the setup, to try to recover. for for lap time, you're just giving giving up and giving away and there's nothing you can do about it. So you just try to survive. And all the time you're focused on reducing the weight on the car, you're not focused on making the car faster with other evolutions. you, one stop to the other. It's complicated. So Uh that's just the way it is Um There will be some races where It won't be as apparent or where the car is fantastic so There will be some points to grab but you also have to really be careful on those weekends because they don't happen often. So they're easy to mess up U that's that's just the way the way it is but they're all pushing forward. There's no Nobody is throwing their hat down 're giving away, which is very good to see. Now the drivers are very professional, both Albon and signs they're pushing, they're working hard knowing that It's a long road It's not only twenty twenty six and it's a constant work in progress. The minute you give up, the minute you give away, you're done U and none of them seem to be bending to that pressure or frustration. Same thing for Jame Valo, anyone in the team that I've seen Okay We're listening to wrap everything else obviously tough weekend for Has DNF and thirteenth for Estean Okon O the Probably the highlight of the weekend Holkenberg's qualifying performance. Weird DNF for him because of gravel kicked up by the cart, Cadillac bot ass DNF check or the last of the finishes Aston Martin, just want to finish with Matt These Alonso Talpine rumors What do we think? You're the The grid insider As a huge romanticizing idea of that, I would love to kind of see that, you know, It would be great for him to head back to the team because it was so sad to see him, you know with Aston purely because the car is not competitive. It's not there. And it's one of those works we're talking about the very top of the show of seeing seeing these championship drivers, know as they're slowly getting older, moving to different teams for more exploration and then just not getting the results they were initially having. And you know to see him, you like not having the results he's wanting with Aston where you behind the scenes we can all talk about you like what's needed to change within the team for them in order to move forward. They've got a brand new facility, they've got all this investment going into it, but yet the car is still not competitive And I think for Alono is like one of those where he thought maybe at some point, he could be the one to come in and potentially change that to make the team successful again but it just doesn't seem to good be going his way. So I think if he was to go to Alpine, I think that again, it would think maybe be like maybe a season, if not too kind of maximum, but at least, you know, like he can end how he wanted to with with the team he he's won the championship with. Do you really risk walking away if if you have the option of from an Adrian Nie design car now that he's had a bit of time to design it if you're Alono or what will he do next? It's a tough one because Alpine is not a winning car either An anyyway So it wouldn't be him jumping in a car that is poodiums every race weekend and possibility of winning So is that really a necessary move O the other hand, and it's believable because Butrior has always been closely linked to his career and still is So that link is still alive Uh So you could end up thinking, yeah, of course they will work together again alsoso Alonso Aston Martin. Stuck with it. Why? Because Adrian knew it was coming You don't, you don't You know, you don't give up after one year Obviously, this here is you can put it in the garbage. There's nothing to learn from that car from from the work they're doing. they're not at speed, they're not laapping it's it's almost as if you start you have to start from scratch U I'm guessing What would Hed be happy with is a long term contract. So that gives him the time to get to the point where the team becomes performance with Adri Nuity That's the key, that's the goal If he's given only a one year contract, then might as well jump ship All right. Listen, final word from you Jacques. Is it going to be a three way title battle? Can you see or maybe even a four way one? and will it go the distance? What are you reckon Hey listen, we thought it would be An in between teammates battle only Feri was always there behind but never close enough to actually give them a hard time. Maybe for a few lats at the start of a race, then they would go backwards and it would be a one tumor cs. And we kept on saying, unless it's a one tumor cceds, it's aad weekend for them But now it looks like actually no Ferrari mainly with Lewis and Lulair will be in the fight as well U They will give a hard time to Mercedes. that will put Mercedes under pressure, that will put their drivers under pressure. That's what will be interesting because then we'll really see what they're made of, what both Nantanlli and Russell are made of when they're the other driver they're fighting against or team is not their teammate but from a different team because you don't have the data. You don't know what's happening in the other team that creates a different kind of stress than When it's your teammate and you know how hard you can fight or not and exactly what setup they have Title eight Matt for Louis. Ferrari has to be quick word from you. Oh I'm not sure I could put it on just yet. I mean, he's only just had his first first one with the team. I don't think he can charge all I mean, hey, if he was able to do that, that would be absolutely legendary. Yeah, I think this three way battle is going to be fascinating. I would love for Childles to come in to make it fourth and see some more aggression from him But I think so far from what we've seen from both drivers at Mercedes, that they can race wheel to wheel and not collide. And it's a great spectacle to watch But with Lewis coming in now with this back with this confidence back, I'm really excited to see what's going to happen at Silverston. For me, that's going to be the cru one, but also Austria. that I feel like it's a circuit which the drivers love to go around. And if you're going to go for a move, that's where we're going to see most of the light braaking overtake opportunities. And so I think we've got a real great one in store for us. Listen great stuff gentlemen, really enjoyed your accompany on this. Thanks to Jack. Thankks to you, Matt. We will be back with another F one show after Austria, but from us all right now. It's goodbye.