Future Predictions for Premier League Broadcasting

As soccer takes center stage this summer, Comcast helps bring the experience home to America. As the exclusive Spanish language home of the tournament in the US, Telemundo is set to present its most expensive coverage ever. seven hundred hours of programming, live on site presence at all one hundred four matches. And with multiiew and real timeime four K, Xfinity will deliver the most innovative and immersive sports viewing experience for fans watching on Telemundo, Peacock, Fox, and FS one. Learn more at comomcastcorporation dot com d thirty three days, thirty three episodes, No off switch. From the goals and thegory to the politics and the problems of the World Cup, if you want soccer analysis from a podcast that's been overanalyysing the game for more than twenty years, then this is it. Join me, Max Rustton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the tournament, canan England end sixty years have hurt? or will this be another year of falling just short Probably World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts, or watch full episodes on YouTube Welcome to the football boardroom. Henry, your feet are back on the ground. You've been running around and I believe you're back in Kansas from Boston, from the England Garana game, I confess not the greatest viewing experience, but you have been busy on the latest off field controversy to overshadow this this incredible twenty twenty six World Cup. What you been up to greetings from Kansas City from the Midwest, but it seems certainly having been at the game the other night that it's more the wild West when it comes to the hydration braks. It's such a talking point out here talking to England fans, talking to some of the Gharne fans and talking to friends back home what it means to the individual flow of the game, what it means to the future of the game, Are we going from the game of two halves, which you and I grew up loving and still love to a game of four quarters as it's actually routinely referred to on American TV on Fox over here. Just a quick timeline of events the other night. It was We went towards this first break And there was frustration and there were booze. and it was quite interesting. Some of the volume of the music got turned up I qu interesting the reaction on some of the American television stations, someone described it as pantomime viewing by England and Ghanaian fans. I promise you, I was there and it was probably twenty of the sixty five thousand were showing their disapproval. A lot of this was on the back of the Club World Cup and the extreme temperatures there point from FIFA was that it was for the welfare of the players. Players are looking a little bit bemused by this. Thomas Tull has said he doesn't like the game being impeded, the momentum being killed And so I was just sort of tweeting about it at a half time the other night and just said, listen, this is an absolute joke. This doesn't this kills the game for the three minutes that they go to the sideline for. and then probably for about a minute afterwards because they're just sort of feeling their way back into the game. So it doesn't really help anyone. The welfare of the players, which absolutely has to be paramount isn't really an issue in climates when you've got it nineteen degrees or in air conditioned climates. So I was just tweeting about this and I got a reaction back from FIFA saying, well, listen, we have to have it consistent. It has to be for every game. othertherwise that affects the sporting balance of the game. But look, the French had a game the other night where they pulled it in the second half We've had games. We had it with England where two players went down injured just before they saw the midpoints in the half. They then had two minutes of attention, thirty seconds of replaying, and then they went off for the three minutes. So and then eventually last the other night, Infantino put out a statement the FIFA president saying they are doing this for the good of the sport. And he underlined this point and this is right where you come in because you know the numbers and you know the the financial imperatives in the game is that infantina said we're not doing it for any financial benefits to ourselves to FIFA, but is there and this is why I need your forensic mind and sleuthhing in on this. What are the benefits for the television companies Well, he's very skillful, isn't he at politics of this stuff because a strictly technical level during this World Cup the windful benefits of in effect adding Nearly six minutes of additional advertising slots to every game thoseose financial benefits are for now, flowing to cast companies who are choosing to sell advertising during those breaks. And to be clear Not every commercial broadcaster who happens to have the rights to this World Cup around the world are choosing to do so. In fact, it's interesting, most notably Our commercial broadcaster ITV is not currently running adverts during their coverage. Is that sorry, interrupting, Is that because they knew they would be a backlash or they just don't like the idea anyway Actually neither the primary reason Henry is that the UK commercial TV marketplace is actually highly regulated by something called off comp and the number of minutes that our commercial broadcasters are allowed to give over to advertising is limited. So in this case It would be of zero financial benefit to ITV. to sell advertising in those slots because to be within their mandated advertising time limits, they would simply have to do less advertising pre match and post match. So so I think it's one of these cases where ITV have rather smartly made a virtue out of necessity. They have turned it actually into what all good marketing should be about. which is giving your audience, your fans, your customer they want or in this case what they don't want And it's very, very clear that traditional UK football fans absolutely would sympathize with your observations that having a break in the middle of halves is fundamentally transforming the game, the sport The emotions, the momentum, let alone allowing, you know, mid half coaching Anyone could see it is having a dramatic effect. on the sport we love. I think ITV know that And so been have in fact been allowing their pundits to comment quite openly on how obviously ridiculous these breaks are in being presented as one thing when in fact they're not a hydration break. They're nothing to do with weather conditions, they're nothing to do with giving players a chance to cool down, as you rightly say, so many of these games are being played in air conditioned environments. They are a totally commercial decision mandated by FIFA And that is very, very clear. FIFA aren't getting the money this time round, but we'll talk about why they're doing it. But look, just explain this off com to me because you've been in the room when these conversations have taken place. We've seen it in rugby where they've almost split the screen and some of the American channels for some of the games, they're splitting the screen. So you've got the focus on the players having the chat with Pertino or Tuul on the touchline in this three minutes break. And then the other half of the screen, you've got David Beckham selling honey or cars or whatever. Is that would that get a round off com No, I don't think that would get around off com right now for this tournament. for ITV They did experiment with that, I think in in the rugby recently. And by the way, consumer reaction in the UK was pretty negative. I think we should focus on on what is in it for FIFA, actually, given that as I have explained, the direct beneficiaries right now think of it almost as windfall revenue opportunities for those broadcasters who happen to have the right. And the most obvious beneficiary are the biggest rights holders for this tournament in the United States, which is fox sports. and frrankly, Henry, what fascinates me here is the politics behind the scenes Because for those who don't know, Fox actually got the rights to televise the World Cup in America Many years ago, in fact in In twenty fifteen They already held the rights to the twenty eighteen and twenty twenty two World Cups Russia and Qatar And those rights, by the way, were awarded long before, I think, in twenty ten But in twenty fifteen, when FIFA finally, finally after five years of intense criticism everybody in Europe about having a worldorld Cup in the middle of the desert They decided to change the timing of the Qatar World Cup being a summer World Cup to a winter World Cup Fox went absolutely crazy at the thought that these worldorld Cup rights for Qatar be running directly against their prime domestic sports content being the NFL and the NBA in autumn and winter in the United States and FIFA were' in grave danger of probably the biggest lawsuit in the history of sports media. and their peace offering to fox sports in twenty fifteen when they broke the news that we're sorry guys The foootball World Cup is going directly against your sports coverage was to say How about we give you the rights to the twenty twenty to the twenty twenty six World Cup as well at the same price as twenty twenty two. and that's how Fox find themselves as the host broadcaster And that turned out to be, Henry, the deal of the century in media terms, because frankly, at that time, firstly, we didn't know that the World Cup was going to be in the United States of America. Secondly, we didn't know it was going to have forty eight teams So a massive expansion in the value of those rights for Fox. Can you imagine then their good fortune that having locked out in the first place with one of the lowest value media rights deals in history to actually be showing this World Cup America right now Last summer in twenty twenty five during the Club World Cup. FIFA announced actually, we're going to bring in these hydration breaks for the twenty twenty Sinks World Cup tournament And that's straight to Fox's bottom line. Absolutely remarkable Two things strike me on this. First the Trump ion U with also with Infantino, we've seen Trump and Infantino se best buddies And also the fact that the when the World Cup was in the United States in ' ninety four There wasn't really that huge intense interest. In fact, the start of it was the TV coverages were far more focused on OJ Simpson in his Bronco truck going down the interstate in L.A. I mean, that dominated coverage But it clearly FIFA maybe learnt the lesson from that. And MLS obviously came in a season or so after that and have sort of taken off gradually. But do you think this is all as well as the Trump Fox infantino connection, there is this huge desire for FIFA to make soccer the number one sport here totally ambitious, not going to happen, but they really want to sort of invade and the United States is the final frontier in terms of actually sort of spreading the message of soccer. And that is why They were sympathetic towards Fox and the television companies in terms of this deal Well, I think the way I look at it it, this is the this is the for FIFA, this is the fill your boots worldld cup Anthing goes in Anything goes generally in media and commerce and sports in America, definitely in Donald Trump's America. So you know, think think of FIFA as being not unlike, you know, a club in our domestic game. They they make they they want to max out on ticket revenue. Well you know, the reaction to ticket prices outside America for this World Cup has been abbssolutely serious all nonstop. American fans, they're used to paying crazily high prices for tickets. and yes, whilst there's some noise They've got away with that And the stadiia look pretty filled to me and and the fact that FIFA are able to now benefit from the secondary sale of tickets in that marketplace and basically take huge commissions out of the resale of tickets, the resale of tickets at massive markups to their face value You just can't get away with that in the rest of the world, in the football loving world where football is the primary sport I see this as a as an opportunity for FIFA to really, really push the boundaries on what is commercially possible when there are no real guardrails, maxing out on ticketing revenue maxing now on the value to TV companies by throwing in these additional advertising minutes in the form of hydration braaks Right now, my guess is that FIFA are taking the long view Let's prove the concept. Let's show worldwide broadcasters just how valuable those extra six minutes can be. And you can bet your bottom dollar, Henry, that when we get round to the sale of rights to the twenty thirty and the twenty thirty four World Cups broadcasters will be expected to pay for those extra minutes. And I would bet my last dollar that hydration breaks as a FIFA World Cup feature are here to stay But I find it fascinating to see, particularly with the proliferation of American owners in the Premier League and you will have seen this firsthand at Astonvilla and Chelsea and Liverpool Whether we're going to see more of the commercialization which we're seeing in the media over here in the Premier League. Well, it's an interesting point that you know, the whole subject of the introduction of more U.S. styles coverage to our sports is a bit of an old chestnut, you know, I've been in the game a long time. Um, you know, Sky have basically been the lead caster of our game now for the whole of the Premier League era well over thirty years. so that's you know, with with a new deal done every three years normally, maybe that's nine or ten new deals and every one of those so called renewal moments to the broadcast rights You can rest assured, Henry, and I was in the room for many of those. Sky and the other broadcasters competing to televise the Premier League in Britain. would have been saying, look, we need and want more U S style features to our coverage You know From from In game interviews of coaches and players talking to substitutes when they come off the park Getting cameras in the dressing room, which has been happening in US sports for fifty years, getting cameras on the field itself when goals are being celebrated. They're just three or four examples of enhancements to broadcasters access to the talent to the stadium to try and make the viewing experience better and My observation would be Um We're still miles behind the US in terms of that coverage. I think it's interesting I'm picking why that might be the case I mean I've covered a bit of MLS down the years and I remember talking to Gerard in the galaxy, dressing them in LA. I think they were playing NYC and Frank Lampard, there was obviously a big England golden generation focus on it and just talking to Jerard and I said, what dod you make of it? justust having this media invasion of the dressing room And I don't think he was completely happy with it. He understood the sort of the commercial reasons behind it and why the clubs were into it But it just it didn't sit easily with me partly because there were certain things you could see in the dressing room people were doing. L there wass a big pile of vitamins, completely innocents, the other side of the room from Jerob, which people were helping themselves to. And I could just see some of the headlines that might arise from that. So I could understand why there would be resistance to that compleompletely purest level. I quite like the mystique of the dressing room being for the players for the coaches. Obviously that's been opened in the post Ferguson era. twenty thirteen, iPhones came in. All the pictures you see from like Manchester Is's dressing rooms and other dressing rooms wouldn't have happened when Ferguson was was in was in charge. What I do find interesting is this halfim talk, they're allowed sixty seconds and they have to put up. eachach team has to put up someone who is on the bench And England have put up Anthony Barry, Thomas Toulls number two who gets asked a fairly generic question by whoever the host broadcaster is ITV or BBC, ITV for the Croatia game, BBC for the game the other night in Boston And it's a fairly generic question of you know how did you feel that half went, are there anything particular that you're trying to change? And Anthony Barry actually was incredibly forthright and G got a lot wheelel because wheel We all saw it. My phone l up with Mate saying, who the hell's this bloke for a start? But he's toofool's number two. I take your point, Anthony Barry, he's not a household name. but he's still toofool's number two and he still came out with some fairly strong things at halfim I mean, obviously, he might have been a bit more guarded in Boston But he still talked about patience and there were elements that he could pick up. But the interviewer is only allowed to ask one question at start so they can't bounce back off him. if he says, oh, I'm not happy with a gun Aans playing us s low block, they can't come back in on that. But can you see more and more of that oming into the Premier League. Look, let's talk about Anthony Barry You're not a fan of him, are you No listen, I don't know the fellllow, but all I know is that most fans don't know who he is and we're to and to a British football fan watching that game It absolutely was gold. It was it was it was innovative. it caught the eye. As I say, my phone lit up with all my mates saying what the F is this It's honest number which we'ght use number two telling us, you know It's not going very well and dress burns It was just pre raw, pre direct, pre unplugged And it's absolutely a perfect example of what we're discussing here. innovation or an enhancement to the TV audience experience that compomanies like Sky have been arguing for for decades, but when push comes to shove They don't get very many of these through Premier League You know, we're one year into the latest deal. with Sky Okay This is a company that are paying one point three billion pounds a year for the right to televise our game in Britain Okay. This is a company that people talk about, you know big stakeholders in our national sport, you know peopleeople who bought football clubs for a billion, two billion quid Sky have spent over thirty billion pounds just for the right to leaving aside studios and staff and production, just for the right to televise our game So you would think they've got by far the loudest voice in the room And on many things, they do have the loudest voice But when you talk about these little innovations like, you know, we'd like to be able to you know interview a sub when he comes off the park By the time that gets put into what the Premier League call there Section K rules Okay, They're so watered down. It's like, okay, you can do a substitute, but only before the eighty fifth minute and only one time a season. Oh, and by the way, if we're losing, you can't do it. So H, I want you and our audience to understand that to me, it's absolutely it's both fascinating for a traditionalist like me heartening. even now somebody with that much stake in the game, that much power our lead broadcaster Cubs get asked, can you give us your feedback on these additional American style features that Sky would like to introduce into our coverage By the time twenty clubs have said, Ohh, I don't like that, I don't like that. they do get very, very heavily watered down and and I would say in total The traditional views of the game still hold sway And a lot of people will be pleased about that This is fascinating because you see what clubs then do to their shirts. They turn them into almost trash them in some cases and just cover them in billboards and they look like quick fit fitters sort of covered in logos. So they prepare to do that, which you and I would consider anti traditional, but obviously it's money spinning But They don't allow I find it extraordinary that Sky don't push for it more because you know, he pays the ferryman You know, shouldould be allowed to interview the ferryman's mum at halfime. They they would say and so would I The best run commercial organisations in the world understand the importance of the eighty twenty rule, focusing on what really makes a difference and what really makes a difference for Sky. is having the big matches at four hundred thirty on a Sunday U In fact, scheduling and kickoff times makes a huge difference for a broadcaster Many people like me believe if you've had to say one thing that has created the Premier League Bechhimoth globally as a broadcasting phenomenon. It was the years ahead of their rivals in Spain and France and Italy, the Premier League and Sky figured out Let's have different kickoff times for TV audiences from Tokyo in the East of Seattle in the West. So skky get that. they they exert their stakeholder power and influence on what makes the biggest difference. But on smaller things that we've been talking about in this World Cup broadcaster features that enhance the viewing experience. They find it pretty hard going And the key is the constituency is different. So when when when when somebody asks a commercial question of the Premier League, can we play around with how our sponsors look on our shirts, for example? It's businessmen answering the question and saying, If it makes us money, the answer is yes But when you start talking about access to dressing rooms access to the tunnel areas goingo up to a player who's just walked off the pitch and is sitting on the bench in the eighty fourth minute Guess whose call that is in a football club answer whose it always has been? The manager The coach And there Natural reaction is No, thank you But how many managers are there nowadays There are more coaches who are presumably more malleable I think the direction of travel is most definitely to more and more of these US. style features being incorporated and the normalization of things that would previously have been considered absolutely toaboo. like, as you say, a camera being anywhere near the inside of a dressing room. Can you see that happening in the near future? It's happening and it has happened. I'm simply saying compared to the USA, we're miles behind and and you would say because you've been raving to me about the coverage of US sports out there at every level, you would say not only are we miles behind, but the proposition for our TV audience is therefore less compelling, less exciting, less entertaining than it could be. I'm saying to you, somebody who sat on the other side of that debate when we the Sky and the Premier League It's a very democratic process innovations are considered in this area, clubs get a chance to feedback And in my experience, whatever you call the guy running the team, the coach, the head coach, the manager from Furgy to Um Thomas Frank through to Whoever is today sitting there in that room, the natural action of somebody running a football team in British football is no thanks. That's my sanctuary. I want my privacy. And that's why I think Sky find it pretty hard going in this area Well, the sanctuary of those clubs and those dressing rooms had people in the past like you and David Gill at Manchester United, who were football fans and would resist too much of invasions. But do you think as you the proverbial Americanization of the Premier League, you are going to get maybe more American CEOs parachuted in, and you are going to get more of this loosening of the dressing room boundaries and more of television's invasion. Firstly let's join this all together. We've talked about, you know, these unbelievably high profile hydration braaks and that's driven by the ability to sell more advertising minutes. You know, let's run that through your question Is there a scenario in One Five, ten twenty years Okay. When All twenty Premier League clubs are owned by American Organizations with hugely developed sports, media and entertainment activities, the most sophisticated owners in the world of these types of properties who are absolutely convinced that the value of that extra six minutes of advertising is going to translate through into much bigger TV rights and therefore, much bigger revenue for those club owners. and therefore, guys, we should introduce quarters into our great game. It's not impossible is it? It's just a continuum of more and more commercialization What I'm saying is at the micro level some of these S sureure U.S features of sports coverage around dressing room access, around player and coach access, They have been really hard going Um And it's not for the lack of trying by Sky and other international broadcasters who look at what happens in America, look at the audience feedback. Look how popular those features are and say, guys, you're missing a trick not having that in British football. And yet it's slow pedaling. So my feeling is, look, I think the biggest the biggest U example I think to date of U. S media enhancement coverage of our national game in these reality shows the and it's interesting, isn't it or nothing? All or nothing. yes, I think that's the Amazon version, Netflix versions across a whole range of sport, Netflix coverage Drive to Survive of F one, largely credited by media and sports executives with transforming the popularity of that sport Now now isn't it interesting in twenty twenty six? I think the first all or nothing on our Premier League game, Cub Club all or nothing It was twenty seventeen Man City. Isn't it interesting I can promise you one thing The first phone call that Netflix or Amazon made in twenty fifteen, sixteen, seventeen was to Manchter United For nine years, that answer has been no, thank you Why? was It was it a glazers thing? They didn't want cameras around them because they're slightly strange characters. L I'd love to say that my hero, you know, Alec Ferguson would have said no, but by twenty seventeen when the first show came out He'd already retired, but look, I'm gonna to say it. his influence still loomed still does in many respects, loom very large over decent swathhe of the coaching and managerial community in our game and the notion that the dressing room Um is a sanctuary for football and suits and commercial people and God forbid broadcasters stay out You know, that would have still had plenty of residance in twenty seventeen at a great club like Man United, but to use two of our favourite phrases money and power. I think the money equation at Man United in twenty twenty six is a bit different to twenty seventeen Okay. they need money Um, You know, they've had a really, really tough run They're trying to ladies. There's been cost savings, you know, people have left that football club who never would have left under the previous regimes ever. The general messaging out of the football club has been we need to maximize our revenues and minimize our spending, i. e make more profit And probably seven, eight, nine years in, now nine years into the all or nothing phenomenon I think they used to pay about ten million quid. I'm pretty sure Man United will be getting nearer twenty million pounds This regime has said we're taking the money. By the way, the commercial benefit of those shows when they're done well, far far exceeds the twenty million of cash in hand they'll get just for the rights. You know, this drives significant global fan interest, drives other commercial income streams, makes the sponsors absolutely delighted. Imagine you're a manu sponsor. you're now getting all of that extra audience thrown in. So so from a purely revenue standpoint, I can see why United is doing it. And on the power side, I'm going to say it You know, I don't think David Gill or Edward would would have dared walk into Alex's office and say do you mind if we have a camera following you around for the next year? Can you imagine the F bombs that would have flowed from that question Can you imagine it been hilarious But it's an issue with chararac because he's a head coach and he's in a respect. I would respectfully suggest That is a pretty different dynamic when Jim Radliff people. I'd be surprised if they even asked Michael, you know, but if they did, it would be look, Michael, we We need the money. You know what we're trying to do here. We think this could be great for the brand. It's one hundred and fiftth anniversary. You're al right with that, aren't you? And I'm not expecting Michael would have been pushing back very hard are you No. I mean I think because as you say, it's power. But tell me What would Sky think of that? If you have got the biggest club in the country producing this amazing content for their own benefit. If you are Sky, if you are the broadcaster who's pouring billions, obviously collectively into the game, but Manchester Un I did profit heavily from it, arerenn't you going hang on a sec, We want a little bit of this access too Well, it's funny, you should say that it isn't just a kind of, you know You' right with that. It's it's absolutely one hundred percent contemplated in the contractual arrangements with our broadcasters Sky have full reciprocity. they can They can say whatever you show we want to show it too plain in plain English. Now that has been the case for many years and of course, You know, they have seen Other clubs like Spurs, like Manchester City Light Arsenal, run these shows and and in practice as opposed to in in the theory of what those contracts say. sky have been surprisingly accommodating of these big clubs increasing their income doing deals with rival media organizations that cut straight across skky's contractual rights. I think what you see are a bunch of sort of informal arrangements look. We'll go with this manu, but in return, we'd like to do X, Y, z and And it's never quite clear what those deals look like, buts there's Sh we say behind the scenes political agreements that take place to accommodate the wishes of our biggest clubs. But yeah, you're absolutely right. It's pretty remarkable. and it's just another example where the sort of stereotypical view. I mean, you know, you and I have you and I have been living with The frustration of many fang groups at, for example, the kickoff time issue justust the power of broadcasters over kickoff times and how inconvenient that can be for the average football fan and a general narrative that our broadcasters are controlling the game My experience behind the scenes of money, power and politics is It is more nuanced than that. There is a lot more of the political horse trading, give and take where Sky and the big clubs and the Premier League have to find these accommodations that that in the end sort of work for everybody and These reality TV shows are another example where They sort of find a way to make it work and ultimately take the long term view We're all in this together. The Premier League is the golden goose. It is getting stronger and better every year and partart of that process requires some degree of give and take for the key stakeholders. That's my experience. Just finally because there are a lot of Dutch in the hotel and they're going be going doing their left right dance in reception any minute. So if there's any background noise, apologies, is just lots of jolly Dutch. Where do you think we are for next season? Do you see any more innovations? Because I mean, like you, like so many people who will be listening and watching this We pay a lot of money for Sky. Do you think that they will on the back of what you're seeing in America, your point about Netflix and all these individual club program contents very popular that they will push more and more and we will see more innovations for next season and going forward. Well let's take them from the top. I'm saying it right here right now and I pray I'm right We're not seeing hydration breaks in English football. Cub football, hopefully not in club football in Europe for for the very foreseeable future. I love the fact that traditional fans at the games have made their feelings felt and that simply is not happening in our game as one example of a US innovation in the coverage of sport from this World Cup that would be deeply unwelcome. But at the broadcast level, at the product level There are three years to run on the current media deal. and so technically the deal is what the deal is and I've shared with you already the three or four of these in game features have been somewhat watered down and diluted And I think it would be fair to say not only are diluted You know, it's kind of once a season for most clubs There's a sort of if you' lucky element to it and as so long as they're not losing element to it, and I wouldn't say all clubs are particularly religious in complying with those rules. So I think the more likely outcome is that when you see something that really captures the zeitgeist, And weirdly, the Anthony Barry interview could be that moment We might see some tolerance of clubs to the idea taking a long term view Enhancements to the viewing experience probably do in the long run benefit the game, the Premier League and those clubs. So maybe just maybe Sky' find the normal not on your Kinelli reaction just a little bit loosened after a world cuut where those innovations capture the public imagination. That's my prediction and I hope I'm right. Honestly, all this is making me very thirsty, CP, so I think I'm going to go and watch the Dutch and have a bit of a hy duation break of my own Well, we are several hours ahead of you. so I suspect my hydration and yours it is It is the evening and my hydration of the alcoholic variety. so I look forward to catching up soon. I hope our audience have enjoyed this discussion of power of television in America and its impact on our little game back home. We'll see how it all plays out and We'll see you all next week See y'.