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Check Respononsse is setp required compatibility and availability varies eighteen plus Last time on the Harry Hill Show Hello there. I'm Harry Hill and this is my show. It's the Harry Hill show What's up, Gary? You look like Alabala st you Ham Balum. It's my shoes Daddy. All the other boys are teasing me about my new shoes Well They are a little flamboyant, Gary, aren't they? Yes, they're a collab between Christian Leaboutin and the Danbury Mint. Well, as long as you like them, Gary, that's the main thing. Yes, I love them. I love them so much. they make me want to tap down Hry Careful Gary Oh o My shoes. Gary, the guest is here Well, in that case, wed best welcome our guest Kerary Pracer McCleean. Thank you much'm Kary McLleean. I say McLean, but I'm not that preciious about it. Well it's that joke. You remember too young for Kracker Jack, aren't you? I' slightly yeah Peter Glaze used to say to Don McLean, McLlean, and he'd say, Yes, I had a bath this morning. Very good. Doesn't really work though. McLean, anyway, welcome. love me to see you. Really nice to see you. And I'm trying to remember the last time I saw, you may have been on a train think it was Yeah, I still feel embarrassed about you. Yeah. Well, it was weird because We were And we have we have met a number of times before, you know, around the clubs, doing the gigs And we were on a train and I looked over and basically it was the The table next to us, me and my tour manager, we were on the way to I don't know Cardiff for somewhere. Glasgow Glasgow, Yes,'s get those two mixed up. Glasgow? And I looked over and there you were. I thought, Oh, that's Kiri Pictard McLan. And you're on the phone, but you were talking Welsh, all that. And I said to the termag, I think that's Kiri he's going' both sort looking over and you're very animated on the phone. I don't. And you're bandn from Wales. over fenence know they're very touchy. And so I texted, I think I texted. You texted me. I was sort of we was trying to say, Kiri you like that sort of to attract your attention, but you weren't responding to that So I texted you It' something like, Where did they put? You said, Are you on a train speaking Welsh I looked around and you were sat opposite me and I hadn't noticed. I know. Be I've been so engrossed because I'm not a first language Wels speaker, have to really concentrate. Well It seem been very convincing to me. It did. I just go, Harry Hill keeps staring at me and he's sat on the table opposite me and I'm trying to ignore him. That's what I wasm saying in Welsh. Yeah, probably and I was just listening I was saying earlier that I was very moved by something that you did on the radio, which is why I kind of got in touch with you. Be you were doing a thing on radio four about what was it? It's kind of where you go for a walk in the countryside and they ask you about your relationship with nature. They've let all the studios go that's well. So now you just have to keep on the move so you don't have to pay any location fees. Yeah. Yeah. So with Martha Carney, I think it was. Right. Yeah. And what you were talking about living in Angles City? Yeah. and about how you were fostering Yeahren was just something just really sweet about. And I thought, gosh, I didn' had no idea that she was so nice. Be it doesn't come across when you she'd been so mean to me. L Oh dear. Licky the Harry Oh no mas It's Licky that j Harry mascot he's coming in for a li. Just with my foster carer Mind the hair. Mind the hair, she's taking ages on that. Gone. G back to your quarters. I hope he's got a DBS because just with my We never got the results of their DBS. Pnding. Yeah, so so you still you live on a farm in Anglesy. Yeah. so I grew up on Anglesy and then moved back U yeah, about twenty twenty. and yeah, Ive live on a farm in the middle of kind of nowhere and I love it. diffifficult to get the geeks though, isn't it? I Not entirely practical. It is. Sometimes you have to sit on a train all the way to Glasgow. And is it true that the dating and I've I thought of a joke, that the dating app on Angle C is Angle Grinder. Very good. Really good stuff. ye. Interestingly, if you are on dating apps where I'm from, quite often you get paired up with people from Dublin and the Isle of Man. It's close. It's closer, I suppose,oser ye than, you know, because you've got to set your premises quite wide. othertherwise' immediate family. So Yeahah, so youve got to start fishing round Ireland. Yeah. But how does your partner feel about that We're very modern. Yeah, we're foster parents and swingers pus to swingers. What So listen, how do you feel about AI? Guinely Yes. genuinely. I feel very unsettled by it and don't really use it at all. No. And I've got some friends who are in kind of kind of deep relationships with Chat GBT and use them like therapists and I find it quite chilling. Yeah. ye. Well a lot of the time you don't know you're using it, I think. Yes, that's the other thing is I feel like it's stealth moved into things. However I think here's the problem I think when it's used in things like medicine, so like MIA the it scans like results of mastectomies and can get much quicker results. you still have to obviously have to have a consultants check it, but it can really streamline things like But we're not using it for that. We're just being like, where should I go on holiday and using huge amounts of like energy? And I think we shouldn't be allowed it, I think intelligent people with an important job should? So But do you think that the consultants, you know, they're looking at the results from Mia and then they're going booking a holiday They earn that holiday. Yeah, but it will be to a left breast.ike that's the only information they've got from that. Yeah. Well we have got an AI bot. Okay. Yeahes, so I'm a bit nervous about introducing it. Sarah, the AI bot who's going to tell us a little bit about you. Can I be cheeky? Let's not make a request. Hly unorthodox, but It's only because on my way over here, I saw a primary school playground full of children, right re doing the Andy Burnham. Oh yeah, they're all doing it And obviously it would make me cool with the kids that come and stay with me. If I got to do the Aniera us. We've made a bit of a rod for our own back with this thing. It's become bigger than the podcast But yeah, as it's you curious, come on, let's do the Andy Burnham One, two, a one, two, three, go. Gap your hands Proow a chair Peela pastn it Hy in your trousers Sieve the greens Strangle the fox. Pipe the buttercream. Stub your toe Cancel your Netflix. Andy Burnham. That felt really good. Yeah. That felt so good. Yeah, you're good at that. I was having an out of body experience. I was not watching myself do it. Yeah. No, you're good at that. Not everyone gets it. Should we get sa around Yeah, let's do it. Okay, Cing out, Sarah, H she comes She rreustles while she walks Lets say hello to Kiri. Hey Kri, great to meet you. Big fan. Love all things Welsh. Got nothing but good things to say about the Welsh. 'use I don't want them to burn down my holiday home in Flanvia Put Gwingith Gog Eerraquindrohlantasilo Gogogog. Ohretty good. Die out. That was very good. Yeah Um Yeah, I mean, the worlds are a bit Where does that come from? Where Where does that come from there? I think maybe the Welsh knot. It's got something to do with it. that they were in What's the Welsh knot? Very English of you to ask. They don't teach us this stuff at schools,? So essentially, a group of three English academics came and sort of investigated the Welsh and then said, o, they're a very thick uncivilised nation. And said all the women were quite loose So they were right in some respects. And then they said because they tested the children. they said they're far below the English children in attertainment, but they tested the children in English and the children didn't speak English. So they introduced a thing called the Welsh knot. And so if you're caught speaking Welsh in school You'd have to wear this sort block of wood around your neck and then whoever was wearing it at the end of the day was beaten. Good heavens. So So we' a bit touchy. When did this happen? It was still happening with my grandparents, up until the forties. Yeah, my grandparent. Oh in the forties B right. Okay. Well, may I take this opportunity to apologise? Yeah. Good. Sarah, you're going to tell us a bit about Kirie. Okay, here goes Hary Louise Pritichard McLean is a Welsh comedian and wr establher. She has performed for several consecutive years at the Edinburgh Festival fringe and won five Chortel Awards. Early life Sn in Glosser Is So you not Welsh Richard Mclean was the first daughter and last Joring Lossay. She was raised on a farm in Lambered ago On the island of Anglesea, Wales It's not bad.ot bad. so it's not five chortles. I think it's more. I think it's actually seven now. I think you know it's seven. No, I don't actually, because also once you get past five, you stop counting, don't you? But I know it's more than that. You might have won one, you know while you're here or in transit. impending. You never know that lot Chortle by the way, is a sort of comedy website is Not real awards, I would argue. It's just for sort of comedians, I think reallyason it to look at. I see how many awards they've won. But you say you were born So what happened here? So you're born in Gloucester, your family weren't mers then. So well, the whole story is I was born in Glcester and then when I was eight months old, my father was relocated with his job to North Wales And so what did he do? He worked I'm going to be vague because I'm going to be not nice about who he worked for, but he worked for an animal welfare charity and then he moved him And his very young family to this house that had like no indoor bathroom and things, and then they sacked him a few weeks later. Yeah, so my mum who had been doing a bit of farming on the side was like, okay, well we'll start a farm. R That's what she did. Yeah, fantastic. Yeah. And so then and so you and that was to Anggllesy and that is Is it an island? It is an island.. Two bridges, desperate for a third, as you know, big talking point on the island, the third bridge. Yes ye Pably you only need one to go in and one to come out, don't you? whyy you need the third one becausecause often the old one is just in two hundred this year is closed because it needs repairs and or you know, high winds, etcetera. So then you've only got one route on and off and we've obviously got the Irish ferriies. You know all this stuff. But this is fascinating. This is stuff we don't We don't hear about it really. Okay, great. And you How many in the family? I'm one of three, the youngest three. twowo brothers And what are they farmers or Well, they're older than me there's an age gap of seven and nine years.. So you're the baby? Yes, I'm the baby and the only girl, which means I can cry on demand. And my brothers are both in teaching it goes to the family. So you're taking over the family farm, essentially, are you Yeah, well, yeah, I'm taking me and my actually my eldest brother started working on a permaculture farm together about yeah, so kind of regenerative farming. So what's permaculture? Permaculture is basically a principle of farming where it's about nourishing the community in the land and not just extracting. So there's twelve principles, core principles to it. Yeah, it's quite sort of like hipp hippy farming. R Commy farming. Does it involve burning your own effluence? Yeah Yeah, absolutely. Yeah cooking on methane from your own France. abbsolutely I think we all started doing that during the pandemic. It's a very difficult habit to kick Burning your own aluence. Sarah, haveave you got anything further to add about our friend Kirie? Not sure how she got into St upp. Information is scanty. Rrichard McLlean is the director and writer for Sketch Group Gimes Family Ehop who were nominated for bestest Newcomer in twenty fourteen for the Edinburgh Comedy Award Richard McLan done have I got news for you? One of Russell Howard's things, She done. Hypothetical and cats do countd down. Would I li to you and multiple appearances on radio four? Is that fair Uh yeah, yeah, I think that's quite fair. Yeah. I mean, I since have another sketch group called Tarot. What happened to Gin's familyamily's gift shop, they?? No, we sort of disbanded and some of us went and joined another sketch group called Goose, who I think you know Goose. Oh, I've heard of goose. Yeah. Goose And some of Gaines came together to make Tarot, basically. So super group. Super sketch group. Yeah. And where do you do these? Its tricky, isn't it being a sketch grou It is. In fact, the last thing my partner said to me was ask him why he didn't pook Tara for his Harry Hill comedy Cub night on TV Yeah, I didn't like I don't really like sketch. That's fine. Yeahah maybe o. Yeah. tellell him that No, I mean, not I don't remember that. There were some tryouts at the Moth, weren't? There were, yeah. It's Moth Club It's hard to sketch is a young man's game. It's when you So is this l. So Yeah. You try this sixty one years old. It's how old you are You look good on it, don't you? Well, you know. What SPF are is in? come on I just well I just my moisturizing regime. Yeah. I just, you know, I start with a double cleanse. Nothing fancy, you know, I use an oil base but emulsifying balm Followed by sulfate free foaming cleanser then move on to a ace you know all this phace tonic of beta hydroxy acids combined D to really clear out the congested pores and followed by an alpha hydroxy acid to increase radiance, then I don't know about you I use a Korean style hydrating essence. Oh nice. Yeah. they're packull of multi moolecular humectants, like I know polygrutamic and yuronic acid Um and I protject my skin barrier. Mike most people with ceramides, peptpe pack,oncclusive gel bed and, um And then I prevent damage from both UVA and UVB with a broad spectrum sunscreen of at least For thirty. Yeah, good. That's absolutely immaculate as a skincare routine. And it's a inute a hurry, then one quick w with the flannel. Gobbit Mammet's the masty one. The Masty firl. Don't remember, C't breathe. You hurt me. Um Sorry, Curie, would you excuse me for a moment? Of course Selfie gires G anyone want a selfie. That's it, helpop in G it? That's a pound. Oh man, justust the thing. Oh hun. very Sorry about that just said. problem. Right, Sarah. do you want to say anything further about Kire? She is also co host of the podcast All Killer No Filler with Rachel Fairburn, her half hour radio stand upp show Kiri Pritard McLlean. Eistential crisis was on BBC Radio four She was awarded the Carolina Hearne bursary. Crichchard McClean will also receive mentorship from a BBC comedy commissioning editor to develop a comedy script Kritichard McClean and her partner are Respite Foster parents in Anglesey. Her peacock tour was based on this That's it. You're up to date with Kiri Preeti Patel Thank It's not she's dropped you her twigs Oh, that's nice U I can't eat it. Oh Vsn' it She's a vegan, Sarah. for crying out loud, Do your research. Yeah, we had a similar problem with Deborah Meaden She she vegan? She's plant based. She can't say she's vegangan apparently because she eats skin Right. Oh blood drinks blood So this was good, wasn't it? this Carolina her anniversary? Yes. Did you ever meet Carolinea? No, I really wish I had. What an incredible incredible talent. Yeah. But she was she was only met her a few times, but she was quite naughty. she wasrou she was so of trouble I love that though. Yeah. that's what I mean, she had a real twinkle I'd had this thing I mean, I don't know if I should tell this story, but I was I was trying to impress a girl This beforefore I was married, long before I was married and found my soulmate and life partner. Hi Daring, if you're watching, she won't be And So I took her to the up the creek. Yeah, rightight? And we get because Caroline was on doing a nun act. Sister Mary Immaculate, yeah. Yeah. And it was like a really weird night. and you remember Jimbo No. I was just odd Sometimes he would be absutely he would kill it, you know, absolutely kill it. O nights he'd just absolutely die the worst possible death. And that night he had this it was a cuddlely toy dog he had tied to the mic stand and he was feeding it dog food. Wet or dry? Wet. Sure. I have a tin. And then he started eating it himself and it was just horrible and he was gagging. And actually afterwards I said to him, is that you know, what did you put in the tins? it's chew? He said, No, it's dog food. And I thought, well, why wouldn't you But something It make us think it was dog food, but it's not really dog food. It wass like an awful night and you know some night's there. it could be a bit od, couldn't it people sort a bit leerry. We get a taxi back and I gave Caroline a lift in the cab as well. So the three of us in the cab And she's going to me, So you too, are you going to be staying in the same bedroom Really? Really uncomfortable. Yeah Yeah, she's good Are you one of them reality TV stars? famamous in the nineties stroke, early two thousands. if you don't like it, switch? 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Regency Innovations Prince the Inventions in an uncaring world This episode is brought to you by State Farm You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over nineteen thousand local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs. so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride Download the state Farm app or go online at statefarm. com like a good neighbor. State Farm is there Introducing Taco Bell's new jalapeno citrus salsa, with bright citrus, real red jalapenos, guailo chiles. Usually, you add sauce to the food, but when the sauce is this good, the food is just there to get the sauce to your mouth. That rolled quesadilla, not a rolled quesadilla anymore Now it's a sauce shovel. Taco Bell's Jalapeno citrus salsa. Get it with any item on the cantina chicken menu while it's here. They participate in US. Taco Bell locations for a limited time only while supplies last, contact store for availability It's time for a theme of the week Musical. Music Hall and we're joined by our expert who is Oliver Double, reader of comic and popular performance at the University of Kent. Absolutely. Full disclosure. I know you and so does Kire. Yeah We're sort of friends. I think we have a very strange connection though So yeah, you were my well you explain how each other. You't first Kiring, did you No This is my eldest They grow up so quickly. So yeah, so Kira used to teach stand up, but there used to be a comedy corset University of Salford. and I was the external examiner So I saw her feedback to her students and it was amazing It was so good. Well reatively supportive dat out than individualized. It was. So you would go in what were you looking for? I mean, isn't it as simple as You know, how funny are you No, because it's not is it? It's more, you know, you can see someone having well, we all know we can see a bad comedian having a good gig and we can see a good comedian having a bad gig. And you know, you'd mark them on things like Abitious they were with their material, had they used things like their voice movement? Did it feel like the first punchline? H they pushed it past that? you know? So there's lots of feedback you can give, I think.. And I think there was really specific stuff about like this gag would work well in this but not if you tried it here, it just wouldn't work, that kind of thing, which is actually like way beyond what somebody' starting out would normally be able to access that knowledge. It was great. Good. Now Yeah, I recognise that we would be down at C but stop driving. You've put all that behind you for today to talk about musical. Now I have a love of the idea of musical, but I'm not sure I know much about the specifics of it What is Music Hall? So Music Hall was a popular entertainment form that started in the mid nineteenth century and it was sort of the predominant form of popular entertainment right through to really the nineteen fifties. and it sort of it' sort of staggered on into the early sixties Right, so what did we have before music all then Well, before Music haall, there were a bunch of different things. It was Brown'so. is Brown was exactly Well Fun enough there were some very crude and bawdy shows called Song and Supper Rooms, where they had genuinely naughty lyrics I means I've got a book here Bady songs of the early Music hall. Bright ds. Okay, if I just get my glasses out, I can read you a sample lyric U Oh I love o how I love to ride, My hot, my wheedling coaxing bride Wow. Good rice May. Pretty on the nose. Yeah. And the bride presumably isn't the name of the horse. No. And also what's quite interesting about the songs is it's not just about male sexual pleasure, either, it's like the women like it as much as the men in those songs. Well let's hear one of those. You're a Saminist. I love that. Absolutely. So it's the mid nineteenth century. Yeah. so what's starts to happen is that you have these song clubs where people sing songs, right? and they sit around a table And they take it in turnerms there's a chairman who sort of calls them up to sing And they would, you know take it in turns. And apparently they could be quite rough. you know if peopleople didn't like it, they would throw stuff. So there was an audience. Well yeah, what started to happen was instead of just being the singers, people would come along to watch and then eventually it changes so that people are actually on a little stage And it's much more like a kind of a show But initially audiences sat around tables eating and drinking in a pub Well, yeah, initially in a pub. and then in the eighteen fifties you start to get purpose built music halls. So the first one was the Canterbury music haall in Canterbury. Not in Canterbury in London, strangely. They were playing a trick with with. there was a guy called Charles Morton started it and then they gradually as it became more popular very, very quickly you start to get hundreds of these things around London and then around the rest of the UK. And as it starts to grow, the theatres gradually change shape. So Wiltononss in London would be an example of one from the eighteen seventies. and not many of those buildings survived And then examples of ones later than that would include the Hackney Empire opened in nineteen oh one and the London Palladium, which opened in nineteen ten Right, but yeah, I mean, have you played Wilton's, Kirary? No I haven't. Ive played the others. Is it kind of Frank Matchamy theaters? Yeah absolutely Frank Matcham was one of the oot Wilton'sough was Wilton's is a Frank Matsem. I No. I mean, Wiltononss is a very odd thing I mean, isn't it like the last musical? Yeah, of that era. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Becauseuse actually it's like a terraced house, isn't it? I think he bought two terrac housees, knocked them together and then extended out the back. very yeah, you should go It's really good. Anyone actually who hasn't been to Wil it's worth a visit. Yeah, I saw Roy Hood in Pantomime why and it was superb. Well he wasn't he the president of the musical? He was. He was president of the British Musical Society and could I just say Join that if you're interested. It's so good. and all you need to do is go to the British Music Hall Society website and it'll tell you all about how to join. Yeah. Well, I had a rather unfortunate association with the British musical s or an event that happened. Roy, I knew Roy a bit. Yeah. And he was great fun And he inv he was giving I had this old warm up man called Bobby Bragg, you know, Matt Bragg. Yeah. his dad. So Bobby Bragg was used to do all the warm upps for TV B And and I knew he was a friend of Roy's and I said, I'd love to meet you know, Roy. So we went out for but Bobby was very ill. you know, he got very ill. And anyway, the three of us went out and I said to Roy, I said, Oh, by the way, Roy, this is on me. He goes, Oh, he goes, Well. He goes, I'm a diabetic and he's got cancer. it's going to be a cheap bill. Anyway, he said, Oh, will you come along and present Bobby with this award from the Musical Society? goo there And I've been to some like the comedy hereritage things. I' been to those, Have you been to those? No They're quite old. People there are quite old, but the British Musical Society, they're old And they' really really Oh I mean, there's a lot of I think they're looking for younger members actually after the side. right? So I go on And we're on like a raised thing. There's a table there It's me, Roy, Bobby and then there's there's the some other kind of dignitataries of the al really old And I go on and I say, Well thank you. he hands over to me and I go It's great to be here at the dignitous reunion and dinner. Nothing. Nothing. okay. And then I carry on a bit and then the blrooke on the end fell off. Yeah, fell off the stage everyone goes And then I'm like, what do I do? Carry on, No one moved. And in the end someone got up and sort of hed him back up. But it was like really, I mean, w really yeah. So that's my experience I'm sure it's a great. Yes, I'm sure mean you know as a kid, I used to love watching that The good oldays The good old days indeed. city variet city varieties, exact. Oh I love that place So it I mean, you could think of music hall as a precursor to both stand up comedy and pop music, but kind of joined because in the kind of classic sort of Victorian music hall main there are lots of different types of act. You could get performing elephants anything. but the main type of act would be a comedy singer and they'd be known as a comedian and they would do a song. So you'd probably know some music hall songs. Oh, I do like to be beside the seaside. That's a music ha song by Mark Sheridan. or down at the old Bullen Bh. that was Florry Ford. And so a lot of these songs we've remembered. in fact the revers is to a do like to be beside the seaside. Nobody knows. The bit we know is just the chorus. Right. And yeah a lot of them are like that, aren't there? Yeah, My nan used to sing one, which I always really love oo Antonio, do you know? ye, I do. yeah yeah I think is that Mary Lloyd or I think that might be Florry Ford as well. Florie Ford. Yeah. Oh Antonio. He's gone away. left me on myono all Amono. I'd like to see him. And and his new sweetheart because off would go Antonio and his ice cream cart It's an ice cream Yeah. and I think I think I'll right and say that that up would go Antonio because I think know she's's I think she's turnury his cart over in revenge for him Oh there' up with somebody. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. And so who are some of the comedians that we've Well,, there was a comedian called Little Titch. I've got my shirt. Oh yes. So Little Titch was from Kent. he was from Cudham and he was a very small person and he had an extra finger on each hand Which he iss very self conscious about it. might start right there. Well, yeah, he was very self conscious about it. If you see photos of him, he's often got his hands hidden. Yeah. But he he's wearing mittens for Mr. Titch. Yeah, indeed. Mittens would have been the ideal handwear But yeah he was thinking about the merch. I like that. Yeah. He well you could get a little you could get a little wind up little titch. you could get a little kind of wind up model that it would do that because he was famous for this big boot dance where he had these long boots and he would sort of tap dance on them and he could sort of lean unlikely Yeah It wass the length of the feet Yeah. That's right. Have you seen? No. yeah. There's a famous film of it made in nineteen hundred where he does this dance and it's just amazing. Be he goes up on them. He goes up on them like still. So it's probably very dangerous and quite painful to do But here's where we get the word titch from Oh my gosh. Yeah, absolutely. So he was named after a famous sort of Victorian con man who was the Titchborne cllaimant, who claimed to be the long lost son of this rich Victorian family, even though they didn't look nothing like this guy. And famously, the Titichchborne cllaimant was a large man So he called himself when he started off littleittle tit because it was quite funny, the idea of him being littleittle T And yeah, went originally littleittle Titchborn goes down to littleittle Titch. and then within his own lifetime, he'd given a word to the English language. that's how popular he was I the bits I know of mus ha, which isn't a lot, but When I've had it sort of portrayed to me is that it was an area where actually women were well represented and sort of doyen. I'm so glad you raised that. Yeah. So Mari Lloyd was one of the biggest comedians of the music hall at very, very saucy My oldan said Follow the Van, that was one of hers. And the songs are always full of innuendo and she always she's always kind of comes out on top And then later in life, she was that innuendo was very good. Towards the end of her life. She had a song called one of the ruins that Cromwell knocked about a bit and it fitted the fact that she'd become middle aged. L she had to change a persona in a way. Right. And when she died, you know, I mean, like Thousands of people lined the streets of London to say their final farewell to her. But another great woman from the music hall was Vesa Tilly. who was a male impersonator And she was so popular that she influenced male fashions Men would go along and check out her trousers or whatever And she appeared at the first ever Royal Variety show in nineteen twelve And apparently the idea of a woman in trousers was so shocking to Queen Mary that she hid her face behind her program. Yeah Yeah, and that was tough because if you in the Royal Variety show right into the mid twentieth century Apparently it was a really tough audience because they listened I say It ninety seven. ninet ninety ninety seven, It wasn't easy. All right, But did they do this? Because apparently this is what they used to do. They'd watch the rooyal box and'd only laugh if they laughed Well I did it, I mean, against my better judgment. I was on with Spice Girls. Wow. What a double bit. Did you do a dble with them? I went on with them. That would be great. If you had got on with them, which song would you have done? probablyably would have done I do like to be beside the seand? No, but I did so I was on with the spice girls. Jim Davidson Is f Yeahah, Jim Davidson. What's his face? Connlly? Brian Conney?. And And Michael Bolton, I think. Wow. Yeah. and I went on it was really tough. and I was you're very aware of the queen up there in the it was the queen. I come off and as I go off, I walked past, Desakona was hosting, I walked past Jim Davidson and said I said how did it look? And he goes, It looked fine. Oh. Oh no Yeah, it was like you know, cold sweat. So these are like actually can us. tellell me about another woman. There was an amazing woman called Nelly Wallace. and she played a kind of old maid type. so she plays a kind of woman who looks grotesque. But she's always interested in romantic adventures with men, right? That's the basic comedy. And she had there's a live recording of her from late in her career. And it's quite rare to have recordings of these people with an audience. And she's really funny.. Yeahah, And she does one of the things they would do is, and Dan Lino pioneered this style is that the song becomes less important. song is just a little bit at the beginning and then you stop and you do like three minutes of gags and then you do the end chorus. So she does one of those And she does this whole thing about how Um have father was ill in bed or something, and they recommended a trip to the seaside but they couldn't afford it. So he'd stayed in bed. they foundned him with a kipper, R Right. I see, I think that's the same basic comedic DNA as you've got. Yeah, possibly. although I wouldn't open with it. Yeah And It killed in nineteen forty eight. I'll tell you that. Well see, Dan Leno's a name that comes up a lot, isn't it? I mean Roy Hb would be going Dan Leno. Well he was known as the funniest man on earth Do we have any, you know, is any recordings any scripts or Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things a bit like pop. you know, when we were young, you know, pop you'd buy a single. Well, what you would do then was buy a song sheet. So there are lots of songs sheets of Dan Lino songs that they have the pattern written into them as well. Oh do they? Yeah, but there were also quite a lot of recordings. There's enough for an album of recordings that would have been released on seventy eight. and there he is, you know, he was identified by somebody who worked with him as being the person who did the most to sort of shift the center of gravity from song to patter. So you could argue that he's one of the progenetites of stand upp comedy And But what's really tricky is because he died in the very early years of the twentieth century. So it wasn't possible to record him with an audience. So it kind of sounds weird because you hear this very crackly recording of somebody saying these really weird old jokes and no response And he himself, because at that point, you couldn't record like with one of these. he couldn't record electronically. It was like a mechanical process. So basically you had to put your face into a funnel And he said, how the hell can I be funny into a funnel? Which is a fair question. Yeah ye U And so then what so you say it ended in the sort of fifties Yeah, so it changed quite a lot in the early years of the twentieth century. and one of the reasons was because you couldn't the licensing laws changed and what that meant was that you couldn't serve alcohol within the auditorium in most cases So that meant that the wet money, as they called it, the money that came from drink sales massively descended, right? so Oh, I know that phrase I used to work in a comedy club and the wet spend. Is there spend is thrown around and it made me feel ill every time I was said it So So what they did was instead of having a show that in the Victorian era, the shows would be long. And they would advertise when each act was on because people wouldn't necessarily go for the whole night. They would go to see this person or that person But then they changed it because they needed to make more money on ticket sales. So they changed from being these one long show to twice nightly So they would do the same shows twice a night six nights, so twelve shows in a week. And it maximized the money that could be taken on the door. But also around the same time, it started to move from it being just these comic singers being the vast majority of the acts to being more of a mixed bill. so you'd get dancers and performing animals and magicians and petriloquists and speciality acts, some of which were very weird. So I wrote this book, Britain had Tent about variety And've got I've got more what's the difference between variety and Well, they're really kind of It really marks I mean they're both the terms it's complicated because the terms are interchangeable really. but normally when you say music hall, you mean the early tradition and once it goes to twice nightly, people normally talk about variety, but they're both terms were used really throughout the history It strikes me then with those sort of speciality acts. To me, it sounds a bit more like when I hear people talking about the start of alternative comedy and there are lots of sort of almost circusy acts the guy with a block of ice and stuff like that. Yeah Yeah, the Iice manan. I mean, I've also sort of written about that era as well. and what happened One of the kind of influeners on that was street performers and they brought a lot of that stuff into it. like you know comedy esca apologists and things would be hun upside down and everything would fall out their pockets, that kind of thing. But yeah, there there was an act called Henry Vadden, whose act was he wore a helmet with a spike on They would drop a massive wooden cartwheel and it would fall onto the spike and then he would spin it around.ight. And presumably there were some buildups absolutely, but also imagine doing that for twelve times a week. Yeah. You'd be shorter at the end of the week than the beginning. remember Bob Blackman Do you remember? Yeah with used to smash the train on his train? Oh yeah yeah, yeah yeah, exactly. Mule train. Yeah. Jimmy Tarbuck Namedrop told me a story about him, right He's on tour with Stop me if I've told you this. He's on tour with Bob Blackman and Bob says So every night just come out do mule training himself over the He says to Jimmy, I've got a new bitid tonight. He says, wouldould you stand in the wings and watch So Jimmy stands in the wings and you see, he comes on does this mule train, smashes himself over the head with a tray And then the last one, he leans into the audience and smashes over the head of someone in the front row who gets up and punches him in the face. So what killed it off Wellelly, so yeah, that was a huge factor. I think there were a bunch of different things. I think one thing was that there was demographic shift. So the kind of population the Glasgow Empire was one of the most famous or infamous known as the graveyard of English comics. particularly if you were there seconde house on a Friday night where people have been at work for the week and then being out to the pub and had a few inside them hated the English. You know they just I mean, there's a kind of famously fake to faint to avoid facing the audience at that at the Glasgow Empire. But the point is the Glasgow Empire was in Socy Hall Street in Central Glasgow. And so all the people who lived in Central Glasgow in working class communities So once Glasgow was being developed and they started moving those people out to the new towns, the sort satellite towns of Glasgow, suddenly people can't get to it, can't get home afterwards So that was a huge thing. Also kind of real estate prices in town centres were going up, so it was worth selling the theaters off Also, yeah, the tey was a huge thing because if you could when ITV launched in nineteen fifty five One of the big flagship shows compared by Tommy Trinder was Sunday Night at the London Palladium Well, if you can see the best variety acts in the world for free on your tellle on a Sunday night, why do you want to go to the Leeds Epire and see a much lesser bill for money? where the theatre is peeling a bit And, you know, the acts aren't quite as good. So yeah, it was a bunch of factors really, but it disappeared, you know, it'd been around for a century and it disappeared within about a period of ten years. Yeah. But in a way, like the alternative Cambre thing mirrors that esn't it? Becauseuse it starts in pubs and Yeah. abbsolutely. And I think, you know, one of the things that helped alternative comedy to spread in the eighties was Cast New Variety. Yeah. It was a sort of left wing theatre company thatort repurposed itself as a promoter of this new entertainment. and it was it was called New Variety consonsciously. And they ran the Hckney Empire. Yeah, they brought the Hackney Empire back as a theatre because it shut down in the fifties. It was initially a TV studio and then a bingo haul for years and years And this bunch of trots, this amazing bunch of eccentrics They managed to bring it back. It's a fantastic achievement. Wow. Great. Well, look, thanks so much, Oliver. do you want to plug those books again? I absolutely do. Look at this. Look at that. He can't argue with it. Britain had talent. Britain had talent. That looks really good. We can get that. And what was the other one you said? Well, this bore his songs of the early music hall I'd like to borrow that. Yeah Super, An anything? I well, I So how do I explain this? So my nine, so that's my Welsh my grandma Yeah had lots of brothers and sisters. and one of the sisters was in musical hall and was a comedian. Wow. but died in her twenties of TB So like that's because people always go, o you know, whereere's it from? And then suddenly my relaters have mentioned, o, of course your you know, your nine sister was a comedian at the time Well, one of the things is I the people who were the big stars made enormous amounts of money, but there were a lot of people who were not big stars who were really exploited. And in fact, in nineteen oh seven there what's called the Musical War It was a strike And there's one of the theories about why Mari Lloyd was one of the only big stars who wasn't invited to be in that first Royal Variety performance in nineteen twelve was because she'd been so active in that. in that strike. John Major's dad was also active in that strike ally? Yeah because he was a music Hulk comedian. Yeah That's mad. It's amazing. But I love it because one of the reasons when I'm on stage I always wear sequins and I always dress up and part of it is trying to do a head nob to that kind of world. and I love playing those venues. There's quite a funny thing that they really looked after their costumes. and famously there was a booker for Mos Empires, one of the big chains, Cissy Williams, who wouldn't book an act if they had dirty shoes, right But there's a thing that they wouldn't, if you're wearing it like like a suit, if that was your thing that you wouldn't sit down in that never sit down in the props. You take them off in the break wear a dress out or something. That was the funny thing about that ra ra all variety. So I'm in the same dressing room as I had this there was a kind of ventriloquist bloat with a bird And there's a Russian strongman And there was, you know, Brian Connney, you because there's not enough And and these all those acts, all the acts from sort of the generation before me, they all had dress shoes. Yes. Yeah patent at the dress shoes. you know, I didn't Can I tell you about a strong woman? Ior. No, no. her name was Joan Rhodes. and I interviewed her. She was eighty nine years old and she was fantastic. Her act She wears like a spangly bask and fish nets and massive heels and like blonde and you know incredibly glam. And she comes out onto a song called Sweet and loveovely And every thinks this is going to be a stripper, but no, she challenges men in the audience toeats of strength and defeats them in you know Tug of war, like two or three men on each arm And she tears a London phone book in half and she bends a steel bar around her knee or a neck And she was a remarkable person. She also beat me at Scrabble that. But that's another story.. Thanks so much, Oliver. Really good to talk good. than. Yeah, thanks. That was our theme of the week. It's time for nameame the celebrity seed Celebrity It is a celebrity version of Name the Seed. Are you familiar with this? Well, I know nameame the seed. I don't know about celebrity nameame the seed. Well it's o hang on, so that's come out of the. That's to come out. That should be in that bag. Well it's not important. It doesn't really affect the game pace, more the part of the build up un Part of it. There's the. Okay. How many? Eight thousand. Seeds. In there, I've got a sealed envelope. Okay. And you can see that's been sealed. Yeah, it has. And what does say on the front? Kid? It says Kurry Rrichard McLain, my name does. So this has been something we've prepared speespecially for you. Thank you very much And when we say celebrity seed, what are you thinking U, I'm thinking Oh is it is it a pun Is it a seed that is also Or have you dressed up a seed to look like a famous person? You're not far off. You're not far off. On just I don't know I know what the seed is. Whatere do you turn? So's there's a seed on there. Okay and on top of the seed is a tiny photograph of a celebrity. It's really tiny. It is tiny. And your job is I'll press that button up it goes and you have to name the Seed and also the celebrity. Okay. Do they have any relation to each other, the seed in the celeb? Not that I'm aware of. Okay So that would have been a better idea. That would have been a m a notion of that. That would have been a better idea.. Are you ready to play? I am ready. Okay. Uff it goes. Can I get stuck here? Yes Is it Well, I know the I know the seed. Oh, you know the seed? Yeah. It's a pe. arere you saying pee? Oh wait, it's no it's the stursion Well, I mean And is that is that Peter Mandelson? Is that a is it a p? Can I touch it? You Well, it's glued to the bit you can touch it, you can touch it I feel like maybe it is an aurtian. John the magnifying vass? Yes. Wait, is it the director who died? Who would that be? Robert Redford? No, the amazing director with a shock of white hair. Steven Spielberg Sorry to I've come here to tell you that. No it Rish it out and b? No, can I get suck in? Itcess will be I mean we could go on and on. This h does not improve What was it why? Is it? Oh no God. Is it a man or a woman, do you think? I think it's a man. Right? I would have said Stuart Lee. but he's got a little jaunty bow tie sort of one of those he's sort of got a KFC tie on. To be honest, I've forgotten who it is. Good good. But it's on the other we can have a look on the other side. Are you ready to commit? I'm going to commit to Oh my Godd, who is that? I do you know that face. Oh she knows the face. So it is a face. B Some of them have complained that it's just the tie is more prominent. Oh I really Oh wait, I know exactly that. Is it Billy Connolly Are you saying P Billy Conolly? Yes. Or Nasturian, Billy. Oh. But it is a P. Is it P? o P but the Oh, it's Mark Drakeford, of course. It's our former first Minister of Wales. I should have always known that it was Mark Drakeford, yeah. It's a bit of Billy Connogor And' a bit surely if I. There is. Definitely on the other side, you can sit like that. You can see that, right? Yeah. I see, yes Now, it's always been Mark Drrakeford to me. Just Well I'll have to take your word for it. Well than. You've got one out of too Conggratulations. Thank you. Can I plant this? Well we need to get the close ups of it. Okay. Be I'll let you know how my Mark Drakeford peas get on. Please that'd be great Itally interesting to know if when it grows, it looks like Mark Drakeford. Yeah. And it lowers the speed to twenty miles an hour around my farm. Is that what he's done? It's probably the thing he's most famous for, but he was just the leader when it happened anyway. It's brought down casualties and fatalities and yet still some mad all right wing people think we should bring it back. Yeah. There were more dead Welsh people. Yeah. Well let's bring it down to ten, I say. Yeah, perfect. Let's do it. Celebrity. That's brilliant. I love the way you're so fascinated by that Gary's Joke Cner. Hello Ce. Hi Cry. I'm here all along. I was down there. wasn't they, Daddy? Yes you were, Gary, y, y, ying y, y, ying,. They make that noise, Gary, why not? It' limit my P Can I say just speaking as a foster carer? The state of that collar It would be flagged as a safeguarding issue. Yeah, he's only twelve. Oh you see what you No, no, hisis coll is fs clely. And I would be asking questions about is there you know levels of neglect there Well, I can answer that. there is. my work here is done. So Gary is taking over the business in twenty thirty four short years from now. And he needs jokes. So do you have a joke for Gary? You a joke,? Yeah, this it's kind of I'd say a very family friendly joke. Great. With a lot of economy. It works clean. Okay, great. So Gary, this is my joke, which is where do cows go on holiday He don't know. Let me just think. Where are cows? There's one about cows. what comes out of The Al of White was Browning. Sing out the v of white Well I say whatces Brown and comes out of cows, the Island of White Fairy G yeah, good stuff. Is that it? No. no 'cause it's a different south. Oh o. What is What was it again? Where do cows go on holiday? Whatere did c? New Zealand? No, not bad. yeah,Quite close. Moo South Wales. You're right with the Mon and what you're plplacing. Moo Castle? No, that is who goes on holiday there? I don't mean that subnly. You've already upset the Welsh New York. New York. Yes, I love that one. New York. Have you got a Joeis G? Yes, I have Daddy. Daddy, Daddy, Daddy. I recently ran into a sixty singing icon. Re good? Yes, a sixty singing icon in a retailer of athletic apparel. and she was goshing on a citrus fruit Lulo Lemon? No. Sounda shaw with a tangerine. That's the sound that tells me it's the end of our pod scarf. So all that remains is to thank our expert Oliver Double and of course a special guest, Girary Pritard McLan Butterfly in blue jeans. Handster in a chiffont top. Puppy in a poncho Fluffy duckling with a bob. Butterfly in blue jeans. These are the things of our dreamsam. These are the things Good night everyone. Thanks for watching. See you next time of hadam dams Lovely, Carrie, What a lovely voice you he We can all sing in whales. they can all sing in whales Excuse me, wouldould you mind repairing my shoes? Let's have a look at them. Okay Sure, I'll have them ready by Wednesday. Thank you It's the H Hill show You can't reason with the sun. Tust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's omni shade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear Level up your summer at Columbia. com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on Aloe lotion. You're welcome. Columbia. Engineered for whatever