Retirement and Life After Football

Before we get into today's episode, a massive thank you to Apple Podcasts for including high performance in their twenty twenty six Creators We loveove campaign. If you've just found the show, welcome, nice to have you with us, head to Apple Podcasts to see Mor Damien's favorite episodes from the last six years of high performance As a goalkeeper, you're literally ten seconds away from a major mistake. No matter how well you've played in that game. you made that one mistake, that's what everybody will remember. When the ball was coming over, I was thinking to myself hit the ball, hit the ball. and I heard it hit the net. and then it's like, what's going happen now? I came out of my net B s and then talking to me, but've got no idea what it said to me Could we talk about the data Ar Meng walked through the door? Arson who his first week, he changes everything and Arson's encouraging him to passy and play and I'm like, Wow, never shouting, just little instructions every single game Which of those three howold was the best memory? The night? You're an ice six one. Yeah. ' As much as it wasn't It wasn't a successful tournament It was But we didn't win it. D not mean? it was It was special. you know, we went into that under massive pressure You know, everybody wanting Gazar out the squad and all that sort of stuff, you know, it was a lot of pressure going around, but then we withdraw with Switzerland in the first game You know, so that would even build it even more And then and then we've got Scotland next. So Yeah, it was u It was a special tour to me because for me, I felt The England team made England fans love England again You know, because before it was a little bit volatile. Yeah. And what do you think happened that made them love England again They just saw us like coming back, coming back from Hardly You know, I we We went to Singapore. and certain Mr. Gascoing decides to do a You know, the dentist's chair. Yeah. um And then all the pictures came out from that. and The fallout from that wasn't very good, you know, so I I don't think the country felt that we were preparing in the right way or whatever. It was just out of pressure. ye Were you there that night in Senelvo? Do know I would have been. And this is why I wasn't is So we played against him Bing Dog and Duck eleven in Singapore, you know, and beat him about eleventeen Nil or whatever he was, you know, he was just And then then we got told we could have a night out because we' flying back the next day So I got up to my room and And I starts getting changed and done And I'd just come out the shower, sat on the bed, put the tele on And it was Arsenal against Cf Wednesday Cook Final. I was like, Oh, I'll watch this for a little bit. And that was it. b you fell asleep? I fell asleep, exactly. And then I woke up the next morning, like go down for breakfast and I'm hearing about all the carnage that went on well and all the fun as well. Yeah. Oh that's the interesting thing though, isn't it? I think the press picked up on that as a wholly negative thing, yes team, I wonder whether actually an You know, we can talk later as well about Asenal because there was a lot of more recent criticism about the Tuesday club and the drinking that went on. But I wonder what the what the value is in those moments actually for team spirit. For players, I think it's massive, you know, because everybody gets together, you know, even evenven like some not with England, but like with Arsenal, like when you said about the Tuesday C club, you know, some of the Shire players, you know, they came along and It brings him into the squad, It brings him to the squad even more I want to talk a bit about Euro ninety six because You talk about the pressure and the scrutiny that comes to playing for England, but I never felt that you felt that because the easy smile, Ponytail, the laugh. That sort like you almost looked like the calm member of those England squads to me. Yeah. Yeah, I was U inside there's a, you know, there's a lot more going on than than I was showing, you know, because as a goalkeeper, you're You're literally ten seconds away from a major mistake. You know, and no matter how well you've played in that game, you made that one mistake. That's what everybody will remember that happened a couple of times, like massive ones the that's just the way I was. You know, I wasn't when I was getting ready in the dressing room. nice and calm. you know, Martin King you used said to me like, if I felt myself getting Too excited or whever. he said, I'd just look over at you And he says, you'd be there, just like You know, I was just concentrating and he said, but that helped him which mistake St still hurts the most when you think back The Brazilian gameed the Ronald D No one, you know, because And I still get asked today You know, like Did he mean it? And it And I say, well, I know it didn't. I was told it didn't mean I straight after the game iberto Silver was an arsenal teammate but playing for Brazil. And I said, it doesn't matter it still went in from thirty five four yardts You know, and that for me is a goalkeeping mistake, no matter what happens, you know, what, you know, the fact that I I went I think I went to go to my right, then changed it to my left, blocked out and I couldn't move What was going on then? Do you know what? when the ball was coming over, I was thinking to myself, hit the ball, hit the bar because I knew I wasn't getting it. I I wasn't going to get anywhere near it and I was just I just wanted to hear the sound of it, hit the bar How itet. and thoseide you know, then Den We've still got half an hour to go R right, so I'm on the page now. And I'm thinking to myself, am I going to get treated like Beckham did in ninetight eight if this scoreline stays the same on the pitch Oh my goodness. You're thinking that dreuring the game, yeah. And how do you balance that with actually then having to do your job? It I found it hard, but I did it. I was aware that I was like really nervous after that, you know, and there was a couple of times where You know, I I found myself thinking, I've got to go and get that cross, you know, that wasn't mine. You know what I mean? So it totally goes against what I was preach to other goalkeepers and what I used to do myself onnce you made a mistake. Try and relax a little bit and then build it step by step by doing little things. you know, because if you start thinking that you've got to go and make a save or you've got to go get that cross, you might make another mistake You know, so I was aware of that in the game then Obviously they go down. R Rdino himself gets sent off They go out to ten men and we still don't equal liize and then it's like. What's going to happen now And and that's why When I came out of my net. And I've seen pictures of like Bs and Sven talking to me, and Ray Clems No idea what he said to me On the pitch on the full time whistle? afterfter the full time whistle, yeah I mean The interesting thing is I saw Ashley Cole recently talk about that when he came out of the dressing room after that that He said the press were salivating and you didn' want to have your head on the stick and he spoke up for you to them and he felt that that came at a cost to him in terms of his own relationship with the because Well I was sat next to him at at the Champions Leue Cup final And I've stuck up for Ashley before, you know, like when he left Arsenal and I've always told the truth of you know, what I knew then and he's always, you know Like he stuck up for me as well. you know, and he said that the press were like almost like laughing a little bit me, you know, because I remember going into a press conference afterwards and I could not hold it together. You know, I just kept crying because I was too emotional and You know, because even when the final whistle went and like I said, went it fan and Becks came to me. then went to the England fans and he just like I was like, God, you know, it's that feeling of letting everyone down. That's what he felt like Um, you know, then that all that emotion comes out We'll stay where you are, because in a moment Daveid was going to explain how nervous he was returning to England after his Ronald Dino mistake But then what happened so almost moved into tears So I'm now going back on the plane And I'm still thinking like, o God, what am I gonna to get treated like got off the plane at Heathreel There was like thousands of fans there and looad of them start seeinging my name. ' I' had a good tournent Yeah yeah, you know, which ks forgetting about, you know, I'd played well And even in the Brazil game I've done well. Yeah, But there's a mistake there that everybody remembers. But then when everybody started singing my name, honestly, it was like such a relief. Really? I think you get a bit moved even now thinking No, because because that's like a moment in time where You don't know what's going on You know, I so why to becks. Totally unjustifiable and horrible at times You know, not just like the stuff we saw, you know, the stuff like when he's just walking in the street and things All that goes through your head when I Londed And I remember I'd got my son Robbie on my home and he was on be w too. peopleople started ging my name and it was like massive relief D you have a te I did not then. I'd shred enough before that, trust me. Yeah, I bet. But after the mistake after the game, you know, like they like say like on the pitch in the press conference afterwards, I tried to do that. C couldn't do it and then then reject from We get back on the coach We go to the hotel where all the fans and aller your family are waiting for you There as well You know, it's just this just just a feeling letting everybody down. But what's that like though for like rother unlad that doesn't that almost been trained to keep your emotions b. you don't let the world see. But that was was going on in there? That was uncontrollable You know becausecauseuse like you say, I'm trying to fight it. I'm trying to not c Yeah know, I'm a six foot four Yorkshman. Yeah yeah, that's what I mean. And your generation doesn't show emotion But then doesn't leave you feel. it just comes out and then you just feel know, I just just vulnerable, I think. And then you know, I've got people around me there that that looked after me and You know, it was pretty swear, it was just yeah, Fot controller It was just emotion that just came out I remember Rum on Harry's Heroes the TV show that you did when Paul Merson broke down in tears on that show. and I thought in a similar way I thought that was a really powerful show of vulnerability from wereere you expecting that No, I was shocked when he came out because it was like when I saw the clip of him, you know, in the tax scien and that. It was just like I didn't realize that he was to these, you know, to the to the old ways of you know, he's gambling and you know, I don't know what whether he was drinking but he was it was his gambling that was, uh causing the most damage You know, and seeing him being like that again really shocked me You know, and then seeing raaise a Rudder, you know, and imerse having a a real Ding donong in for breakfast. you know, because I was there for that. mee and my wife, Franky were there for that and it was ten times worse than what we saw on TV You know, it was really bad You know, and I'm When I was like trying I didn't know like who to try and help Because Mur is my mate Razer needs help You know, so that that was a real tough time. You know, But but then that's different, that's not emotion for me, that's to try go and try and help someone What have you learned being in sort of dressing room environments about being able to spot when somebody mayaybe can't articulate the need help But you can see all the signs, what are there? Yeah, they just They stopp talking You know, they go into like a shell and then that's. I felt I was Good at spotting that You know, and I always made a point of Bads that came into the squad, especially England and things, you know, like when Bex came in, first I went over to him and shook his hand and said, weelcome to the squad and all that. And he's told that story before, you know, but it was just something that I did with everybody. I remember how I felt when I first went into my first England squad, which was like back in ' eighty seven something like that You know, I'm like playing a training with people like Briry Robson and Glenn Hordel and B Anderson Petia Selton, You and I was like, o my God You know, and you just you go in there and you just think like neverever get to that standard Really, honestly, Yeah You know, because like they theyre like way ahead of you. O course they' going be because they're older and the more experienced when youre actually training with them You're all on the same level You know, I remember getting chipped by Glenn when And I never saw it coming, you know like he was only like ten yards out and I was ready for a shot, a hard low shot Anyway I was like I never saw that com me and I was like, Oh my God, what sort of standard is this? Really? Yeah We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners. What's some interesting though about the life that you've lived is you know seventy five Cups for England, you won the League three times, four FA cups, European trophy All these amazing reat moments. you know, you're a genuine legend of the English game Yet the first thing you think of when you turn around and look at your shirts is on a couple of bad moments. Yeah. Well you do? I don't know. Well because obviously it's England. You know, we'll talk about that one later, but the England situation is that Never won anything for England You know, and and I go along with a lot of players now, you know, obviously since nineteen sixty six. Um that's sl I regret you know, Armaniania because know how much football means to this country I know how much it means to the fans you know I saw it in the United States, you know, and I've seen it in other tournaments. You know, getting to the final at Weembley and all that sort of stuff in I want to be around when England win something because I think it's going to be going to be happy. And did you believe in those squads you were involved in that you would win a trophy for Frankland? The ninety eight squad was really good. The ninety six squad was like to rebuild of because we hadn't qualified for USA in ninety four. Yeah, you know, so then Terry came in Terry was just light. So good You know, every every box eat eat Pand management, tactical Motivation Just looky in You know, he was just a you know, he's a proper manager and u You know, and he knew how to look after players, but evenven to the fight when before because obviously we didn't have to qualify. So we're playing friendlies before the before the tournament. Andever we get together we watch videos of Holland Why Holland? At some stage, we will play against Holland ook at what the score, you know, look at the performance he' identified that early on. Yeah. He said because Holland have set the bar high, you know, they they are more at D team to beat You know, them in Germany, obviously. No the Holland with a Could you give us an example, then of Terry's man management? Because as you know, I've ve spent years working in football and so many England players of your generation say Terry Venables was the man on every level I'd love an example of why just The motivational side of it of him saying, you know, come on, do it for the badge you know, which When you flip that and you look and you know, my experience of a foreign manager was thin absolutely miles apart You know, as in I' Gate from saying, I got, you know, I got so much from Terry and Glenn as well You know, Ban Hle, but but Terry was just He knew he knew everything. knew he knew when to even like sometimes we' be in the hotel We've been together for like quite a few few weeks You're to me like David taking fishing, he's getting on my nerves being sir Mr. Gascoid You know, so then I would have to take him fishing to look after him and everything. but u But he knew he knew went for me to go and look after Gaza a bit, you know, because he knew that Gaza was such an important player in the squad. oy It's not easy to look after You know, and he knew that about everybody. he knew everybody's character And what was the secret to helping Paul be the best he could be Keing him happy. you know, and not You know,'ve I've I've known Gazza for a long time And I've seen a lot of The love sides to him you know, and some mud sides and some downsides, you know, Underneath all that he's got a heart of gold You know, and he would do anything for you That's what I wanted to do. I want to you know when he was taking fishing, he'd mess about a little bit. He loved his fishing. You know, his passion for fishing was massive. You know, you bought then And we would always fly fish because think you can cast a really good line But he'd be changing his fly like so many times because he'd cast it out a couple of times. Oh that's not working And hed take it his fly was out of the water more than it was in it because he was too busy trying to tie a new one on You know, but he just loved it. He was so passionate about it, but no patience Did have patience for a fishermen? No, u Yeah. I've took him so I've done some filming with him since you know, make sure that he was all right, you know, because he's still got his difficulties Um, I mean And we went and you know, he absolutely loved it and we were cart fishing you know, and I said to the producers at the time and Ali Hedia as I was like I said, I want people to see the side of Gaz that I know notot the one that you know and that you try and get going and you know make him do silly things and that and he's like, oh, okay, okay During the shoot, I was always aware of like, well Ky, you know, like making making sure that people saw it outside of Gaza and And he had a really good time, you know, he's He' he does. He just absolutely loves his fishing When you were on the river bank That's quite a contrast to the sort of the harsh environment I imagine many football dressing rooms are Did Paul ever open up of reveal a little bit of some of the troubles or the vulnerabilities he was experiencing. The worst that I saw was when he got left out of the squad in that year You know, that was I saw a man that was destroyed. He loved England so much. You know, and it was such a shock to him. it was a shock to us to the squad as well we always we always knew how good he could be. We knew that well some of the players, they knew they couldn't create what Gaza could create so the fact that he's totally out of the squad was a massive blow, but I saw him, you know, like trying to trying to organize his own plane and because he was so devastated and he didn't want to go back on the FA plane and all that. and then you know obviously ha'ving been arguments with playain and then throwing flowers and you know, damaging the hotel and All that sort of thing, but this was just a man that was devastated by the news that he wasn't going to be in a world cop Do anything in that moment? I was really. I was trying to, you know, trying to sort him out and trying to get him. there were me and Paulings, we were trying to get him on the plane because you know, the other lads were going to go on it and we just felt it was the best thing that he got on. the FA plane and eventually like calming him down and packing his bags for him and It like horrible things when you think about it, you know, the fact that I'm packing poor gasroow in his bag to get him out of a worldld cup and Yeah, it was just, you eventually we did it, you know, and we caught him on the plane and But he was a broken man then. But you definitely played in an era where Showing weakness or vulnerability wouldn't have been the norm, right? Yeah How hard is that when you're You're a fully rounded person with challenges and doubts and fears But you can't show any of this at work. How does that manifest itself? I was lucky because I didn't really have that many there was there was more highs than there were downntimes You know, the two down times I call it the I did football was obviously the nine goal in the Cu winners Cup final Right at the end and then the the Brazil goal They were like too real be negative times in in my life. I always think that game The Brazil game where it was Martin Kehn famously said, We needed Churchill, and we got Ian Duncan Smith. Somet that was more cerebral than thought. and yet that was used as a stick to beat Sen with. Yeah. Afterwards, what was your perception of it? Yeah, I just didn't I didn't get it with Sen because it was You know, I had my manoneyageer Bobby Robson. Rb Tailer. Kevin S Herry blame And then Spen comes in and it was just like when he's you know, like do it for England or do it for the badge or seems to have the same meaning Becauseuse was foreign, you think Yeah You know, and that's I don't know why, but that's that's the way that I felt, you know, and it just didn't have the same You didn't get the same motivation from it from when especially Terry, you know, Terry was like so good at that But then to be fair to him, taxically was very very good You know, I'm got us to a lot of Tournaments. Yeah. you know, but by Oh two. played in the cup in the World Cup came back and I think I played about two or three more games for England and then He gave me the old the good old phone call. You know, I'm leaving you out to squad them I'm going going to go with David James When the Englland manager rings you and says, That's it Do you try and fight to try and convince them otherwise? No? Not for me. No, Once he's made that decision You ain't going to change. You know, and even if you try and change him You know, be what you say to him he's already had that thought You know, so it's going be He want negative thoughts about you. so it's for me, I was like, okay Its strangeough, isn't it? 'cause you play your last You know when people go, o One day you pick up your kid for the last time and you don't know it's the last time you' ever picked your kid up Yeah You didn't know it was the last time you were going to play for England. No. so you go through these moments and you treat them like every other moment. Yeah And you don't get the goodbye. No, a bit like that A and Ven a phone call up there towards the end of your ar or career. Did you see that coming U A little bit Yeah Yeah because that there was a game Southampton It's like This are not good and we got I think we drew or got beat then I just I knew that I wasn't on phone. Yeah with England and I knew that Plus the W C you know, without mistake. And nowadays, I was like, yeah, this could be Still to come, David explains how As and Vingger transformed arsenal and changed one Ver specific thing Should we talk about the data Arson Menl walk through the door? Yeah. Asking who? That's what he was like. Honestly, we'd no idea what he was like. and then only he walked and we were like That's our manager he looked like there's some sort like a professor coming out of the university. It the round glasses anything thin oversized suit, wasn't it? And now when we were like, wow, and then You know It first week it changed he changed everything. you know, the way that where you were training You know, because like before that we'd had George Graham then we had um Buceery out for a little while Training totally changed. way As if we were playing football, like with balls like pre season, like not a lot of running, you know, just laps or anything like that. s I called Dguise running, because you've got a ball with you and all that, you know, I'm like Oh yeah, this is great, but then just as tired as as before. technique w I' it not passing it,' giving itsony Adal on the edge of the box And Asin's encouraging him to pass it and play and I' blad Wow, It Can't do it But you did But like youreaking references there to like the glasses and this professorial layir that you came in with. And I'm interested in today's environment, take an example like Liam B Sr. Yeah recently at Chelsea whereare Very quickly you heard that that people were calling him the supply teacher. they wereort of making fun of the way that he carried himself. and yet You're describing that Ven was carrying himself in a very different way to our usual environment What was it that Venga did that youraight theical group of blolkses to buy into it Yeah So the first thing was the way that we trained You know, like say, like go The intensity of the training quality of the training that was expected was so high You know, and he was always watching he didn't like say a lot in training, but he was always watching just shout the odd Od instruction. Th he' go b and then he'd have like Pat Rice and Borow who was his number two that Nody harddly ever saw And he was always like up in the stand and he'd come down at halfime and chat with Aison and then just passassion of always wanting to watch football Um and then the players that he brought in. So he brought in this new way of he, you know, did Nutrition side of it. Yeah and You know, it was like water room temperature water, no fizzy water at all See, I remember wororking in twenty twelve at the euros, the Poland Ukraine and Poland Eururos, R withith Martin Kean. Yeah And we were drinking fizzy water. in the stadium And he's been retired probably Can you And he went quickly hit his water. I said, What what you? he goes Arson's, he would Honestly' you hate me drinking fizzy water. he says it dehydrates us. Yeah. I You're retired. Yeah. I never drink fizzy water You, okay, I love it cold. but we weren't evenowed to have it cold. it had to be like room temperature you know, and then obviously like the amount of food that we would eat We are watching, but The way that he did it was really and the way he managed it was brilliant because he had Anelca like Viera Grimondi Remy Gard And then Manu Pet came in and they were already on this diet. you know, they knew about the diet. and They were eating like mounds of food before games and the lads like looking, you know, it's different for me because I don't run around much and You know, so I was on yeah, it's different. And The outfield players are like, arere they going to be able to run around with that much forward in them And they did. And they never stopped and the Lgl light So then they start training You know, for instance, my prematched meal normally was hamming cheese omelet with beans Like Ry would have a fillet state with a fried egg on top like three hours before, you know, so it just totally changed, you know, with all these pasta and boiled fish and boiled chick and boiled veggin zero fight yogurs and crudities and all these sort, you know, like It's a mixture of food And you have to eat a lot of it as well And that doesn't work right unless you also get results. Yeah, exactly. You won you won his first game, didn't he two Nil from memory I can't remember. but I think winning It's so important for him to started winning games. Yeah. Beuse that's the thing that makes it if you're happy to do anything if you're going to win matches and win trophies. Yeah. Yeah, exactly, you know, but buzz was different. It was like a real positive buzz because we knew we were like because I'm watching players now playing the ball and passing. And they've hard done it before. And they were enjoying it. So then they're enjoying training And then that's transferring to the games And then we're looking at the players that are coming in like Nicholas and Elta, I'm telling you now was off the charts, good When he first came to Asenal And he's seventeen, yeah They didn't speak much French French much English. French was pretty good. His right foot was better. Well you were on the receiving end of it, probably in training. And I remember I remember being in training and I think it was Toly and Baldy playing against him and He was like embarrassing them a little bit. I knew it then this art is trying to kick him the still C't game Honestly, he he was so good. And then you've got like Patrick Vier and people like that that came in and You know, just the quality of the players that was there. Yeah but the standard in training was so high and expectation in traina But I think you're alluding to people like Tony or Steve Bold and some of those characters. I'm interested if you tell us a little bit about what preceded Ason coming in. Tell us about the Tuesday club So the Tuesday Cub was was was having few drinks on a Tuesday afternoon stroke night. Yeah U I but it was always done And George knew about this Be it was back in the day when you didn't play as many games. so Wednesday was off So we would go to hybrid and George would giveiv us a real physical session because he knew we were going out You know, and then we would go out, we'd Wednesday off can training on Thursday But yeah, it was just we would go to the races or we'd go to London or wherever You know, and then just have have a good bit of fun. But like everybody because this is a bit that I think we often So given Paul Merson's struggles in the years afterwards or Tony Adams has spoke about it I think we often then decry what those Tuesday club sessions became. but actually there was an awful lot of benefits from them as well. Yeah, Yeah, there was, you know, because of team bonding thing, you know And it caght everybody together, you know? And you didn't always have to go you know, and people would and go to the next one and more You know, and it was just So much fun You know, and it was back in the day where there weren't so many mobile phones or or there weren't mobile phones with cameras on them You know, so we we could have a laugh you know, and and we get away with it, but, um In for the team, I just felt it was so good. You know because everybody would come in and have a good like a release, I suppose a Tuesday And what about like were issues sorted out there as well, the kind of thing Like I've heard Brian Robson and I was going to ask you about his role as Terry Venibable's assistant later Brian Robson spoken really powerfully about how often Disputes or little niggles that get resolved in these kind of social sessions maybe wouldn't have done in a dressing room environment Yeah little bit we didn't talk a lot about football though. Right, You know, it was just about going out and having having a laugh, you know, If somebody had a bad game or something, there'd be a little bit of Mickey taking. Yeah you know, and then that like brings it out and it's like, oh, come on like next game. It was that sort of vibe about it. It was never really I can't remember as daily to trouble you know, like with suffles or anything like that, it was just mainly like your could fun And so did Arson then ban Chse their Cub when he became the manager? U No, he didn't ban it, but the fact was that we started because we started playing More games now The Wednesday was hardly ever off. Right. And then the other thing was is that if you'd had a few the night before and you'd turned up in training to that like so Because it was so intense. most the other ones weren' on it. They had not had a drink and it was so intense So it just like slowly faded out But he was it didn't it didn't say right, no drinking or anything like that, you know, because even like straight after a game, you know, we'd be like straight to the bar and have a few beers and then get back on the coach, you know, and then You know, and he knew exactly what we were doing, but he He managed it so well that he didn't It didn't like upset us that way, you know, because I hear like managers coming in and but in Redsource and all that all these sort of normal things that we do You know, batning them straight away, which then causes a rififf straight away. Arson didn't do anything like that to cause any rifts at all Be he wasn' he wasn't a guy that liked confrontation one be one on one competation. he didn't like that, even to the point where If you named the team on a Saturday, say like half one flip up the first page of the flipboard and he would be there and then the players that weren't involved straight after the meeting, they'd be like, Ohh, boss can have already didn't No, Ill see you Monday. and then he would avoid the Monday. But I just didn' Yeah, just hated it. Yeah, he just didn't he didn't want to do it. Yeah Be anyone I've spoken to that played unto him? They talk about how inspired they were to play f him What did he do with you? to give you the confidence to know that you were the number one and what I expected from you in a game They just they would He was wise because he didn't because I don't forget I was twenty six when I joined Arsenal. So I'd had so that was ninety and Alson came in ninety six. Yeah. So I'd had six years Ason as number one That's that's seven years now with Bob Bob Wilson, my coach. because he used to come to QPR for us sign for Astom Bob was like, my guy I spoke to and listened to And I also work that out really quickly So he would go to Bob rather than coming to me You know, and he wouldn't, But Arson was like he would never like blame anybody. For instance, at halfime, I don't know if you knowicice, Half time when we went in, it was total silence in the dressing room purposely And you went in, you got your drinks, you got your energy bars or whatever you used to have at half time and you sat down And you hardly you didn't even speak to the guy next to you, You just waited. you just quiet and quiet and quiet And then also would say The last two or three minutes before we went out, he would say his a little bit never shouting, just little instructions every single game. And why was it so quiet then? Why were players not he didn't like players having a go at each other at half time. So that was an instruction from him. Yeah That was Yeahah, even once when we were losing a half time hybrid Pat Rice came in first and he started having to go out a couple of ads and in front of all of us, Ar him just turned around and went,, sit down and be quiet we will like You know what? It's almost like being a school you She got you said to go up pat So that was the sort of silence that he was after. The only time that I saw I saw him lose it was we played at Man United and we were five down, I think, out of time. And he came in and he got his water bottle in his hand and name is French accent like he slammed it down in the middle of the dressing room and in his French accent and he went, this is not acceptable But in his French accent, it didn't sound right. So I'm like, And then as as a locko I see Ray Parler Rise Get So it was one of those like naghty schoolboy moments where you d't look at each other because it was, you know you shouldn't be laughing, but the way it sounded and that's the only time I've ever seen him lose it Can you think of a time when in that three minutes where he comes in at the end of a silress room that he said something that was profound that subsequently changed the game? No because it was always tactical It wasn't motivational. Okay. It was always tactical, you know, and it was always about us and Prety much we never did anything on the opposition On we did set pieces You know a where we stand for set pieces. if they did something a little bit different He'd highlight it And that would be it. We hardly did any research on the awaiting Really? Yeah. sorry. So that build but that builds a confidence he knows. Yeah. becauses and he always used to say, you know, like because we if we play well We wait That was his confidence. You know, even to the point when he went to the Bomming press I think it was a year or two years before the Invincibles S he said it. he said we could go we could go and beat him this season. Move. Thanks for that pressure But he believed in you. So interesting. So would he would he ever do like a furgy type Chillan like rousing speech, never I never saw that for him at all Not once, not once, evenven before a major final. No. You know, you would like as as you're going out before, like, you know, when He would just say the tactical side if it had everything it'd be like and then it would be like, rightight, come on let's go. And then as he start as he said that, we were like, comeome on lads and he'd be like, come on, you know, and that was it. The high was always there You know, right up to my last game for Arsenal L lastly and forrsen, I win the FA cup as capt You know, so I'm like on the pitch I lifted the trophy put me Ctain's arm band on and everything. And then then I go to Portugal. I was on a year to year contract An Arson would phone me up. He says, right, I've got en offer for.' like okay, what you got You I want to be my number three goalkeeper You know, this is about. Youve just won the FA You just won the FA cp I a captain because Patrick Verreo was injred And um And then he said, but I want to be my goalkeeping coach. I was like, o, okay, it's something that I'm thinking about because Bob Wilson, my coach was was retiring here m and he, you know, he's been my coach for fifteen years And then he went, but there's a seventy five percent wage drop I just started laughing. I just like I said, boss, you know what I'm going to do. I I still feel like I can play at least another year And I've got offers on the table so that's why I went to M sayT And did you try and negotiate with Arsenal and try and stay Arsenal? No, that's a message. And he's done that with other big players before You know, and it's an offer that It is an offer, but it's a little offer You know, and he's it's I think he was like it was my s to think, well, yeah time at Asenal is over. and city had already made contact City Birmingham I spoke to Steve Bruce, you know, so I'd got a choice of either going back to Birmingham where I I was rebuilding my career organ to Man City but Man city were in the Premier League they offer me the same money Yeah, so that was it was an easy It's quite an easy decision, but Then when I went to City, It was like, whoa You know, because then you realize How good Asenal are and how good they are in every aspect of football. That's interesting. Yeah. take us to the almost the first realization that things were different at City at that time. So like for instance, you was Kevin Keegan that was a manager U you know, and he got Arthur Cots, Derek Fazaki Pete Benett and Stuart Pierce were his backroom staff you know, apart from PSC, they're all Old school. ye you know, so even down to the point of like, meeting for for the first game Like what time we meeting? you know, I'm thinking, arere we in the hotel the night before? or we hotel in the morning, which is exactly why I did up with Arsenal And I me to off one for a three o'clock kick off. I was like, what And I was like, what about food You know because with A we always ate like three hours before kickoff, like a massive meal And' like And Kevin was like, No, no, no. He says, Tust the lige. He says, I'm sure they'll They'll eat properly and I'm like, they're footballers. I said like half of them are on their own. You know, so McDonald's on the way Exactly. Yeah. you know, so it was, you know, that side of it was it was a shock. U And then Weirdly My back four were like two seent are also two Frenchmen that didn't speak much English R, I was Chinese guy. my left back was Russian or Ukrainian. There wasn't a lot of English spokeen that back for, you know, and then me having to trying and get some sort of communication to him in a match. you know, all right, we did it in training as well. but It's slower And you think that impacted performance? A little bit only on certain certain bits, you know, like You know, like Mineon, for instance. Yeah You know, how quick does that translate to him By the time he has one He's right on. Yeah you know what The man is on. We sat that once with Petaak, who told us that he learnnt Spanish. Yeah should be able to tell the Spanish defenders quickly because he realized that actually That's a real competitive advantage to be able to communicate How was you Chinese? Or be Russian. No, Yorkshire was good We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners. It must have been an interesting time thatap for you though, because As you say, your career was largely highs, right? Yeah You've had a really fortunate and excellent football career. There you are playing then NFAu final. Six months later, You're at a club with different values, a manager with a different approach, a back for with different communication abilities. And you get injured that season, you got that n injury, which pretty much end did your career. It went so I was playing for Man City awayay at Wolves Paulls down the other end. in the goal and I was like, and I'd never had this feeling before People have said to me like You'll get assign when you know it's time to retire And I was in goal and I just In my head I just went, what am I doing here? D donon't know why B just came in and I was like, o, my sign Was it scary or weird or? It was weird, but was I would do you know I was ready I was ready to retire, you know, because I was I' to be forty then. Yeah. Yeah, you know, so I knew it was coming You know, and that's why I want to talk about that other shit Becauseuse I made a certain save when I was thirty nine. You know, like being so then That night, I I actually rented a ground floor apartment right next door to Kevin because Kevin owned the apartment. He own the two round floor on. so I went and seeen him. I said, Look just to let you know I'm going retire in the summer You know, so then he could make plans to to get another goalkeeper in And he was like, o, great, you know, well, not great, but he just said, Oh, thanks a lot. And then ten days later we played away at Portsmouth and I went down at I think it was Yakubu. And I went down at his feet and my knees stuck in the ground and it flipped me forward a little bit and as it did, his knee hit my shoulder Total accident. yeah. And then I was like, o and I had to come off. I couldn't carry on And then I went for scans and x rays and they said, lookook, you've springed your AC joint. you know, you could start there's a lot of wear and tear shoulder could start dislocating. I was like I'm ready to retire and I had a chat with Kevy and And he said, lookook, he said, I've got a chance to getting David James Get him and I'll retire and then freeze up a space in the squad So it was as quick as that. Yeah. I think important that You'd already had that realization a few games before then you were done Yeah. I think it's a really painful you know, I used to work closely with Owen Hargreves. Right. Anjury robbed him, right? Yeah some of the best years of his life. won the Champions League at eighteen with Byon won it again with the United and then The wrong things were done in his knees and he never played football again and then was pilloured and criticised by fans. And I think only now I spoke him recently and he said Other players retiring who he played with was the best thing for him then they he was back where he would have been. Yeah. Do you know what I mean Whereas at least you didn't have your career taken before you were ready. Sounds like you well nearly did it nineteen You know, obviously I got when was at Les, you know, I got released by Les United. Yeah, like the team that I've always support. You know, so then I'm at that stage, I'm like, what am I going to do now Yeah when when one of your idols, Edie Gray tells you They're letting you go What did he say to you that day He said He said u This is just after so I've got like on my phone I've got like voters of me in the first team team photo of Les. I'm a Leeds fan You know, I was a boyhood school, you know, schoolboy fan as well, you know, it's so picture meant so much to me and I literally like about A month later I get told that I'm leaving Um And it was out of the blue. He had no idea. No idea. Yeah. And he just came in because Joh Lukich was the first team goalkeeper Yeah. You know,' sow ironic that later on I'll go and take his job But he was the first team goalkeeper and it was me. and I was only nineteen, you know, so that was and I got I hadn't played for the first team. I'd only played in a couple of friendndlies and things. I could understand it a little bit, but he just said, lookook, we're letting you go and I'm going to get an experienced goalkeeper, and he brought it by David Harvey. The oldies goies. I know, you know, So then I'm like, so what do I do? You know, what am I going to do now? He's told me that, you know, I'm not good enough I'm not They don't need me and And like a week passed and I'm just at home thinking What I do You know my mom and dad had a grocery shop that sold fresh bread and sandwiches and all that. and beforefore like when this close season one I' going out the the local bread bakers to deliver the bread around Rotheram And that was like decent money. It was like five qu a day. It was good. cash in hand. That'. And I'm thinking I'm going to be doing that. Yeah. And guess that made you feel Do a slight And he said lost, B Iose I was in a little way, you know, because spend all that time tryrying to be a footballer, you know, trying to be a professional Well I wasn't a professional for one year. I did apprenticeship at least two years then They weren' they were like back then you signed school boy forms. When you were fifteen You're like, now, they're signingving seven and eight year olds. Yeah. But back then it was like you signed as a fifteen year old. And then you're with the club, then you sign your first contract when you're sixteen, if you're good enough. but I didn't sign anything and school boy phone because I wanted to go around all the other clubs, just travel a look being a leads fan, it was as soon as they said yes, I was Yeah ye. ye you know, so So from that to then at nineteen, like not knowing what I was going to do You know, th can delivering the bread or whatever, then I got a call or my dad got a call. saying the Petersburg coming for me because and it works out because Martin Wilkinson was the one of the cultures at leadeds with I think it was Alan Clark And they'd left. they got Allen got sights And then Martin had left and he got the job at Pbra found out that I'd been released And he came in for me How do acid it to be done? Why' Pizzburk Be I've got no idea as a nineteen year old Before we get into that though, can I go back ' when I was reading about you, your background intriguues me, you know, your dad was a steel workker You know, Y mum works in a bar? Your mum works in the bar, the own this grocery store. I'm interested in what that environment growing up in in that environment. What did it give you that you could call on at moments when Eddie Gray is telling you that your career at Leeds is over I don't know what it gave me, but take overver was the motivation of proving people wrong That was that became my main Focus all the way through getting up to The most the proudest feeling that I ever had in football was when I played in the World Cup in France ninety eight first game walking out I' my left from Rotham, that's goingone through all that And I'm now playing in the World Cup for my country honestly, I had like total body goosebumps. Really? an unreal feeling. And when you think back now, what moment do you see in your head That day. That day to walk out Yeah coming out of the tunel coming out of the tunnel and then walking up and then lining up. I then m want to play Probably Tony Adams. He was the wh l who I hadd always been at the side off. lifted a few trophies next to him and all that sort of stuff But at that moment, did you feel you'd proved people wrong, God, you'd proved yourself right I was s prorove people wrong so proud to get there Yeah. And this is after you're United States, don't forget. So I was I've done all right. D all right there Um b that feeling of like playing in that World Cup you know, now tell this story to. I'm involved at Asenal. As a going in one day with a young goalkeeper, so sometimes I'm with the under eightens or I'm with the under twenty ones you know, and along along that journey at the end of the season, some of them lads aren't getting contracts Yeah, you know, and I can have a little chat with them and say, look, you know, look at my pathway and And they're like, what you mean? I was like, Well, I was released at nineteen. they're like, what And they can't believe it, you know, And I say to them as much as you feel it's over now there's another chance. But were trying to prove like who was it you were trying to prove wasas it Eie? A little bit. Yeahah. It's alwaysways Eddie, you know, and I've met him since and you know, we've had a laugh about it and But the funny story about all this about me Eddie and proving him wrong and blah, blah is my mum and dad still live in Rothram, so they go out Sunday lunches in Yorkshire and then they went into a pub and They saw Eddie in the corner having his Sunday lunch and his mum says, Oh my Godd, I'm going to say hellone. Dad agreed. Don't, don't was over. Oh this was a few years ago so we' like well when I was still playing P Asal And u She went over, she'd said, Hell hello Iy, know, I'm David Siemman's mum. Do you remember David? And he laughed and he's You know, he was great with it. you know, she said that u, you know, he says, Yeahah, I know. I said that, you know, Iu to get a goalkeeper in blah blah bl Probably though, a real value in what Eddie did And you should almost get to the point where you're grateful for the fact that he made that decision it lit a fire in you. Exactly. It obviously took you all the way to the top You knowies It's hard to accept that If I'm honest, even now You know, it was out the way that I felt then Yeah. was like I was so devastated. I cried on my own on my own driving home Thats that's howbi affected me bigiggest motivation comes back again ve them. Let's talk a little bit about your dad. I wonder whether Bowel cancer diagnosis was almost that first kind of awareness of of mortality. Yeah. Yeah, because you think that your parents are like bulletproof. Yeah You know, and then when he was diagnosed, he was We've got normal symptom You know and it was there was a national screening program. There was a little test that came through in the post I mean, dad normally would want to eat that. I don't eat that. There's nothing wrong I don't know why And I' ask him I need to ask him this Iight. I' just like, well why did you do it? Yeah? What made you change your mind to do it And how old was he at the time? He would be sixty five, rightight the test And he obviously sent it away and then he came back and they were like, you need to come in And they you know, they scanned him and everything and he's got a two inch diameter lump in his bowel And he'd had no symptoms whatsoever And did he tell you about it when he got the call He told He told us that, you know, that he got that and that he was going to have to have an operation Um, you know, I didn't know obviously didn't know until they went in as to what they would have to do You know, because whether it means, you know, in a clustomy bag or whatever, you know All the things that go along with bowel cancer He'd not got any idea really. Luckily. because he caught it early you know, and all the stats say, you know, if if there's if it is any symptoms at all Try and get it checked out Because the earlier that you can get it, the prevention is so much higher You know, with my dad Yeah had I've think here had is about a third of his bowel removed And that was it didn't it didn't have chemo didn't have any radiotherapy or anything like that. obviously he had different tablets and things and he still rattles around now on about twenty tablets a day. but You know, we're down down fifteen years down the line or more. And what's it because that happened It's not rare now as we know a cancer diagnosis, but there was something in that that inspired you to work with the Bobby Moore Fund, you got to help raise awareness of bowel cancer Um Why did you decide that you wanted to talk about it? Well, because previously to my dad being diagnosed, my mother in law. died of bowel cancer you know, that was, um, That was like a real shock. Yeah because she You know, like She always seemed healthy But then, you know, she was type of lady that wouldn't She didn't want to have any treatment or anything, you know, and just J Vorb, but I don't know, you know just didn't want to go through all the chemo and all that sort. It understandable And then it took her away. you know, so then that was like my first experience of it, you know and how quick it can happen. Yeah. Um And she and she was a nurse as well. you know, so she knew She knew what was going on. so then that's when I started getting involved a little bit. And then Obviously then my dad getting it, you know, then I, you know, and then I met Stephanie and You know, it was just one of those things where You know, I really wanted to do this because I'm Obviously I'm now really passionate about it. Stephanie's amazing. What about Bobby? Did you ever meet Bobby? Yeah, I did once. No way Yeah, I know. But obviously before You know everybody knew that he was ill or anything like that. you know, I remember it was arsenal and we played away to West Aam's Ground at Upton Park Bowling. I don't know which one west I' it. But and I remember after the game I'd been in the bar and I came down the steps and he was there at the bottom of the steps. I like, Oh my Godd. And I was like just so excited to go and shake his hand You know, and I've done that with like quite a few, you know,, even if Even if they don't know me, I don't care. I'm still going to go in and shake their hand Do it with Aronl Palmer Yeah in Florida, you know, in the one I missed was Tiger. Tiger walkedast me. I didn't shake his hand. But with Bobby, it was just You know, he's like ye, he won the World Cupest captoion for England. What did you say to him or what did he say to you? I just said to him it was a pleasure to meet you, you know, and he was like, I no, it's great. He' been well played today, you know, you deserved it was your three points at Westdam. But You didn't say that to him I did. You went. Oh I loved that. I loved sort of reminiscing The you Yeah, I do, you know, because that's all I do now. you know, my my playing days are over, you know, I've recently just done soccerade And I don't even play in that anymore Yeah. you know, because I know that he's done. You know, and When when you mentioned about Ari's heroes, that's the last time that I played In the second series of that remember making a save popped out and I tried to get up and he was like Oh my go, that was so bad I've often wondered about Y're sixty three coming up for last year. Yeah. And we're talking about events that took place twenty, thirty years ago And I'm interested that does that frustrate you to think about that time now and that's all people want to talk to you about as opposed to the man you are today No, it's a mixture, you know, because of, you know, like of what I did. Yeah, and then of what I've done since I retired as well, you know, like dancing on ice and stuff like that, you know, mas dancer and things, you know, all those sort of things that I I want to say I enjoyed doing them. Dunson and Ice was the most nerve wracking thing I've ever done in my life because becausecause I'm out of my comfort zone. I could skate. Right? Be I used to skate as a kid, but I was never taught. I used to go to the local rink, you know, trying to impress the girls that youid do and all that in Sheffield. and I knew I could skate D' see inside of it I don't like dancing at all. I know I can't dance I know I't sing and I don't do it. I don't even do it, even when I've had a few bankes. You know, so Do that My love for ice skating overtook the realization of wearing Lpra and sequins and makeup and You know, but then but waiting in the tunnel done something nice live For the second show The first show was Still pretty daunting, but we didn't know How many people were going to watch it got through We found out the viewing figures peaked at like fourteen point four million and we will like Oh my god B the real life Yeahah. So like I'm wait in the tunnel nervous as anything. You playaying in World Cups. I'm amazing that you were impacted He's skating and hold out my comfort zone and your mouth is like so dry. you go out and you have to stop in the middle Even that can be hard at some you know for some people. And then you like you present and smile and you mouse that dry top lip stays up there, you know, and you're like, what is going on and you have a little wobble in your routine and o it's just scary does People you know, some people talk about that rather than my football career. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've even had, Oh, you're that guy from dancing on ice. You know, not David Sieman, the ex footballer? Yeah. that's cool in some ways, Yeah. Yeah it is. Did you ever have identity issues when you retired and a lacking no purpose or anything No I took these guysu off. I got rid of the Tash of ponyail, didn't know But the voice still stayed the same. Did you that on purpose the tashion of the ponytail? The ponytail came off for Bognor. I did that live on TV U Charles wororththing you just sneeped you off Yeah we've got money for that. You know, and he's same, you know, like my charity work, you know, I'm passionate about that, you know, obviously Boby Morfor and Cancer Research UK Will or Bob Wilson's charity as well. me and my wife, Frankie presidents, co presidents of that now you know, and then the Bridge Shp Foundation as well, you know, because I even had like At the end of my career, you know, like you get like a heart murmur, like air reggular heartbeat. that was kicking in at the end of my career as well. You know, so that was, you know, another charity and another thing that I wanted to get involved in, you know, so you know, but like with the with the Bobby Moore fun and stuff, it's just It was you know, of life and death, you know, that had seen family members are away And how did you find like adjust in civilian life will call it. Like H I spoken to like when Chris Hoy when Chris said that when he became a dad Like he said, I'd always been the number one in my family. My needs were the most important then becoming a dad. He said I got relegated to number three overnight. And right. It's quite a selfish world that you have to inhabit professionally. How like what were the kind of adjustments you had to make But it wasn't children because I'd had children all the way through because I've got Four year olds, you know, So by twenty two, twenty three I've got two kids. You know, so I'd spent a lot of my time with my football career along with raising children and raising their family It was strange, like going to it, not having everything done for you Light by the club you go when you're going abroad and stuff, you know, like I'd go away with the family and I'd be like, Ohh, yeah people just walk through Like, no, you've got to go through that bit there and then that bit there. or just little things. Yeah, but not It wasn't massively different, you know I think the best thing for me was that I was ready to retire You know, I was looking forward to it You know, I was looking forward to be more time to go fishing and play a bit of golf and then do my charity work And it's weird, you know, then And even like doing the coaching. the coaching ins side of it came a little bit lightater on when the reason was is that I started to do my badges. then when I was doing it I got told while I was on the course that I had to do my outfield coaching badge beforefore I could do my goalkeeping mite. not light me being stubbn the oshaman like just rub me up this total r I was like, I'm not doing it And I just left it, you know, and then Ray Llemond setled this this thing where you could get a Goalkeeping diploma which enabled ex goalkeepers that were at clubs. Yeah to carry on coaching because they got this qualification You notothing to do with how good you were. I think you earned your diploma in that after. exactly. What an interesting conversation. honestly, so interesting. Before we finish, we've got a few quick five questions. if you would allow us Prase. Through all the things you've learned and the creree you've had, what are the three non negotiable behaviours that you think matter the most Straightw away lateness C down this, right Yeah Always look after your teammates. Yeah when you win really celebrate So far What advice would you give to a teenage David just starting out? I want to say believe in your dreams. because You know, I dreamt of play for England and being a professional football And then my, you know, then when when that along that path, along that journey that I had, you know, where there was a lot of some downs and then a massive down being released. to then to get where I was W it greatream What's been your biggest strength beinging really strong mentally you know, because as a goalkeeper, you need to be. because you can make that mistake in that first five minutes And then can you carry on for the rest of the game by being a goalkeeper? Or do you get worse because you're so nervous that then you cush your team again. used that a lot, you know, evenven in, you know, I like my private life and stuff, you know, there's been times where I've had to reallyally knuckle down Well Miss Boltter That such aackys pop up when he was a young boy, he was crippled with the anxiety of if I make a mistake ac cross my team and he said all through his career he had to view that the score is always nil nil. Do doesnn't matter if we' winning five nil, losing five nil. The sccov is always Nil Nilb was what he'd say. What like was there a trick or a technique you used to keep that sense of calm No, it was just it was always about winning, you know, it was always like try and win because I was I was also a cot at. cret because I had that at sixteen I had the choice of going to Yorkshire as a fast bowl or going to Leeds as a goalkeeper I was good at cricket, I was good at basketball But we werere always like really successful, you know, so it was always about trying to win things all the time Jonathan you Sometimes we have people on here and they're having to go through mental gymnastics to be elite performers They're struggling with self doubt, having to see therapists. They're like going to bed fearful Apart from really that That England moment. I don't think you've overthought your career, have you? It's not no. You haven't had to go through mental gymnastics to be able to cope with being in England and the last one and a footballing legend. it just kind of happened, right? Yeah. And it did. but I had I had my dad and Bob. They were like my mentors and you know, your helpers. because he'd been a goalkeeper before. So like whatever he said, I understood You know and and I would get sometimes I'd have managers saying stuff to me in the You like,eorge Graham, you should have had done cross and blah, blah, I'm You know, it go in there and straight out of there because he's not he's never been in that situation. But Bob had, you know, so Bob was always there and But then like I said, though the mental gymnastics about it We didn't have people there that could have helped us. Yes, it wasn't it wasn't a thing talked about. No. like you've Th into those twice is that right? Yeah I wonder why the In some ways, that is the cost of the career that you've had has been theort personal life challenges. I know you're very happily married to Frankie and I've met her a few times. She's amazing.. better at ice skating than you as well. But I wonder whether that is almost the hidden sight of David ieman that we didn't see in those Yeah then that's that's like what I said, you know, like about, you know, things that happen in your private life that They still make you mentally stronger You know, because you've got to a certain situation where you need to make a decision You know What happens do you do you stay or do you leave? or whatever you do? got to go for it. you know, and in my head, that's that's the reasons why, you know, I just I was but then I feel that I was strong enough to make those decisions for me, they were the right decisions. Quite taken with your relationship with Bob Wilson? I mean, was it when you were at QPR that you first met him? Yes. So what was it that drew you towards him that made you trust him so deeply. Well, what it was, so Don How was the coach at QPR, one of the coaches and he I've spok to Bob and asked if he would come in and give me some lessons You know, like come and coach me for QPR and he would come in once a week. while he was still at arsenal as well Right Yeah, you know, so obviously he was going back and telling George that, you know, hly schoole is not bad. And then don't know, it was just a relationship that we had. but then again it's these The fact that Bob Play Arsenal You know, and as he told me, he was always he was the first goalkeeper to win the double for Arsenal And he's telling me that all the time. and even to the point where Cup finals or like deciding matches to win a league or whatever, he always leave like a little note like where I used to get changed or a pair of his gloves You know, if I can do it in these gloves, just look what you can do in yours and These like sort of little motivational snippets That's amazing. we're brilliant, you know, and You know, it need then even like daughter, Anna. diagnosed with cancer, you know, like a little bit like do it for Anna and all that sort of stuff and it was just I was so good at that, the motivational side of it whereas technically it wasn't He wasn't really there for that. He was there to make sure that I was right in my head And I had everything covered in the week in training And then Ori would even ask me he'ays like Is this something you want to work on this week You know, if if a certain situation had happened in a againame where I'd not done it right, I'd be like,, let's just cover that a bit, just get it out of there and then move on He was so good at that. with Bob And I didn't really get it from many others Bkeeping caches that I could get gain confidence through training Who do you still maintain as the best striker you faced? Brazilian Ranada. Really? Yeah. I didn't know what he was going to do You know, and and I always used to watch on TV, you know, different strikers see what they do and He had the little toe po he had the shot where he hardly had any back lift and he made little side footes already did it with pace. You know, and even in the game, you know, against Brazil, you know, I made I like one be one. I saved a couple of with him Nobodyobbody remembers that. Yeah. There was a few other saves, you know, but yeah, but him I've played against, I would say Im Ronaldino ofv thislier Yeah they two pretty good players, decent, aren't they? And Greatest weakness Yeah I could be quite stupid And is that a weakness? Can be. Yeah don't always agree with people. So finally, David, what's your golden rule to live in a high performance life You gota enjoy it I love doing what you're doing because I loved being a goatkeeper even from goingo into the playground as a probably nine or ten year old. joining with the big boys that were playing football where I wasn't allowed to go over this white line until I was old enough, going up to them. How come and play football Like, oh yeah, you your tall going goal. You know, so I got I gained confidence from them praising me because I would stopping the ball, but then I'd just love being in go. I was like, I'll go and go So it wass just the love of being a goalkeeper, you know, And I get people coming now to me saying Oh yeah, I really like being a goalkeeper. I like being Striker as well. I'm like He need to love it. He need to absolutely love What you're doing? Well, leten know. when you've been successful at something And the caps behind you are proof of that And you've loved it as well. What you've won out life And that's a pretty rare thing. So thank you so much for coming on. pleasure. shharing your story with us. Absolute pleasure. L man.. Brilliant. Thank you.. Cheers. Thank you Damian. J I actually like David's simplistic approach to elite performance. I think sometimes we get carried away with thinking There has to be more going on There has to be a hidden depth. There has to be a secret that we can uncover on this podcast. But actually Well, I just played football And I really enjoyed it. Yeah. And how often Maybe the two are linked Are we joined by guests who haven't enjoyed the journey and they've thought it and overthought it and cogitated on it for hours and hours and And he's like, what played footb and loved 's a winner. Bill I like it sometimes when we get a bit of a swipe I a guess, you know, when we had Colin Bell on and he wass like, You two let's keep going on about motion Yeah. that just Yeah one hundred and five year old Colin giv us a bit of a chasing in experience to go. Sometimes you just have to do a job and like while David didn't quite swipe us like Colin did I like the idea of exactly as you say sometimes it's just c of Ejoyed what I did. I persevered until I got where I want it to and Generally dealt with it all pretty well. and it wasn't complicated. And high performance doesn't always need to be complicated And it's interesting because to give people an insight into the way that these things work. You know if we're recording a number of guests in a today, I might focus on some. you might focus on others in terms of the prep And you've done a lot of the prep for this conversation. And actually I was looking Once the interview began, I was looking through some of the questions that you'd diligently worked on thinking, No, no, no because they were because loads of them were about like the hidden cost of Paying for England. Yeah, we were talking about like what lessons did you learn from your dad that you had to discard? And you go, well actually his dad sounds are pity. brilliant character just sort kept him on the straight and narrow as a mentor and lifted him up when he needed it. You know, sometimes that idea of to prove somebody wrong that doubted me and that was enough you to sustain the cit your answer. you know, for some people, that works. Yeah. But there was also loads of good stuff in there. I love the fact that he felt reallyally hurt obviously by Eddie Gray and then spent years trying to prove him wrong. Fantastic and it worked well done I lo his stories about Arson Denger and the fact that Arson never really came in and baled him out. He just very briefly about tactics, and that was enough I love that. I love the You know what I was thinking of when he was telling us about Vanger coming in was conversation with Steve Hanson of comeing with rules just come in and Show them a better way. Don't come in and tell them this is the Tuesday Cub's band Just Don't ban it, just see the consequences of I not doing it because others are not doing it and I want to work you hard So it didn't have to come in and dictator. He could just come in and seduce these guys to to follow him. Yeah. I enjoyed it. Thanks, Mate. Yeah me too. Thankk you. And I hope you enjoyed that conversation as well. By the way, if you check out YouTube, you can see the moment that David Sieman and I talked about those three shirts that you brought in and also