Acceptance and Letting Go of Struggle

Before we get into today's episode, a massive thank you to Apple Podcasts for including High pererformance in their twenty twenty six Creators We loveove campaign. If you've just found the show, welcome, nice to have you with us, head to Apple Podcasts to see M and Damen's favorite episodes from the last six years of High Performance. Hi there, welcome along to another episode of High Performance with myself Jay Cumphrey I'm me, Damien Hughes with a very simple question today What are you actually afraid of How earths resent is fear in your daily life? Do you think, Damiia Um It shows up as anxiety, I feel in the stomach, I reconize one I feel nervous or when fish shows up, I can fit it's in my stomach is wherever Th b it registers first. What you U I think fear for me shows up U I only have fear over two things finances and health Like because I think I can pretty much cope with everything else. Right. I think I feel the pressure from builduilding businesses. I think people often think, if you've built a business that's, you know like one of my businesses has three hundred staff. Oh, that must be lovely. No, it's not because it's one bad month or a few bad weeks And you've got such huge outgoings that you feel the pressure every day. And I think health is like the thing that you can't control, especially when you've got children. and you're married, like you just, you're not worried about yourself so much. It's everyone else's healthy all the time.'m I also know that I'm a catastrophizer U Which I think is one of the reasons why I've had the career in the life that I've had because I fear the worst all the time. therefore I run towards it and think, R, I better do something about it So it's kind of an energy source for me in a strange way And the reason I wanted to talk to you about fear was because I was on stage doing a presentation a few days ago to a business And I was talking about how life was pretty run of the mill, if not the Even worse than that, a bit crap when I was a teenager. By the way, sorry about my vo My son had a cup final this weekend. And I was I cheered and screamed so loudly. How did they get on? They did win with a last minute or a late penalty. And the video of me going Like that. I mean, why am I so excited about kids football? How did that happenay I get out of fear. So how did that compare to Norwich getting a promotion? Million times million times more excitited than Norwich getting promoted or even hosting a Champions League final or nothing comes close nowice to watching, you know kids play sport, but actually it's relevant to fear because also When it starts to go wrong, nothing feels worse and they were Three one up and four three down. after a tricky few minutes and then eventually they won. So I was kind of pleased in the end. Well let me ask you then. So we're going to talk about for in more detail. So when you speak to Sb And maybe he's feeling nervous before final or the anxiety spiikeking. What do you say to him? That's so interesting because this was the first time we'd ever had of a conversation where I explained him on the way to the final ar and M's only ten. so it's always all been about ennjoy it, have fun and relax. but I knew that he was nervous ahead of this one. because When you're in a final, you want to win it, right? You feel so close to winning it And what I actually explained to him on the way there, I said, you do know that you're going to have to suffer today He said, How do you mean? I said, there will, I promise you, Seb, there will be a moment in this game where you feel like You're not going to win And all of those thoughts about your mum and dad and your sister and your coach and your teammates and what people at school are going to say, all of those things will start coming in your head And actually that's a really interesting moment for you to remember that it's just It's just fun. It's just a game of football., But I promise you And we'll talk about it afterwards. You will suffer. There will be a hard moment in this game. And actually to be three one up and four three down. having conceded three goals without reply. He did suffer Like And I could see actually the way that he and all of his teammates were playing at that moment, they were suffering Luckily, Seb actually scored to make it for all And at that moment, obviously the psychology means that they are there than the ones with the freedom and the team that we're winning and are now rowing are the ones that have the fear And the reason why this is so relevant is because as I said, I was doing a talk the other and someone asked me, how did you go from failing your A levels, being fired from McDonald's, never really succeeding at anything to suddenly ending up on the telly and all that and I was bought a book My voice is so bad I bought a book could fail the fear and do it anyway by a lady called Susan Jeffers and the whole premise of the book was you will always feel fear The secret to life is to do it anyway And I actually thought growing up that successful people, high achieving people just didn't feel fear. So it was easy for them to be successful But actually if you and I look back now at the hundreds of conversations we've had on this show There is no one that we've spoken to who hasn't felt fear often just before their greatest triumph? Absolutely. ye. I mean, there's that great quote from the sort of godfather of sociology Joseph Campbell who says Cave you fear to enter halt a treasure you seek Say it one more time, say one more time. The cave you fear to enter Holds a treasure, you see becausecauseuse the point he's making is that fav is on the success is on the other side of Fave for most of us When we feel fair, it means that we're close to something important. It might be difficult conversation we need to have that we need to recalibrate the relationship. It might be making a decision to start a new business that means that we're fearful of the insecurity that might follow. B That's the cave that we have to enter. That's the fear we have to confront to be able to get to the other side of it, the treasure that we seek. So you're right, every high performer would map whether if it's been there're going to hear later on. lips from Phil Heath, the. Mr. Olympia seven times. We're going to talk to Jamila Jamill about it. We're going to talk about Scott Mcominy, the Italian Footballer of the year about how he had it for twenty one years at Manchester United. There's so many examples that we could draw on. peopleople that have had to go into the cave that they fear to get the treasure that they seek at the other side of it. And actually the next episode that we release on high pererformance is Nico Rossberg, the twenty sixteen Formula One World Champion when we went and interiewed him in Monaco We spoke for almost two hours. What percent of that conversation do you think was about him overcoming fear eighty percent of it I think eighty percent easily when he talks about the being chased down by Louis Hamilton in twenty sixteen when he's going after it when he enters the the pit lane for the very first time and Michael Schumacher he describes him as a god D't he stood next to him and thinking how can I compete with that? It's so rich Should we listen, sir Some of it. Yeah, here is a very short clip of Nico Rosberg, which you can hear very soon here on ee pererformance. So I was so scared of losing my dream and of messing up and crashing that my foot started shaking but so violently that it wasn't like a little vibration ye. it was a bounc, which I've never I'll never have it in my life you' accelerated the accelerator for So I'll never have because the accelerator, you have to you're kind of, you know, you're being precise with it. So when when you try and be precise with your hands, you also see a shake coming So I'm trying to be but it was shaking so violently. I'll never again have that in my whole life. ye, no way then I couldn't accelerate properly anymore because the foot was bouncing And so then it obviously is a mental spiral ' then your head says, okay, my foot is bouncing so much that I can't drive anymore. So then the foot just bounces double as much Just luckily, I got through this sequence of corners with a bouncing foot Ferstppen still staying behind me somehow And then I got to the straight, the next part was a straight And so I could push the whole leg through So normally you accelerate with your foot and here I use my whole leg to push it through into the throttle pedal And somehow it then didn't full throttle. I was driving down like a recent moment. J driing down the street like that And that was enough that by the time I got to the next corner, my foot slightly calmed again, which then your head says, okay, maybe it's not as bad as it looked And so I just managed to somehow get my foot into a state where I could drive the car again such a cool conversation. And honestly, it was such a rich episode. You can hear the full chat on our next episode of Higherformance, Nika Rossberg hit subscribe now and you'll be the first to get the conversation. Let's go into one of the clips then from our previous episode of High Performance I thought maybe we could start with Jimio Jamile because I think one thing that's really interesting from this clip is that she spoke about how her decision making was controlled by fear. How often do you see this in the elite settings that you work in? or all the time. I see it in I see it in business if you use that as a as a sort of an arena where I see often showing up, you know, people talking about themselves being busy, people being productive, people constantly on the go, always having to make decisions, always being active. It's something that I've reflected on myself at the start of the year. We were talking about microhbits and I wanted to introduce a microhabit in my life, which was I found myself often from a place of fear when people would say, How you doing? I's go home, busy And what is the fear The fear of being irrelevant, the fear of not being useful, the fear of not being able to provide from a family. So let me get this straight then. is the fear that you always say yes to everything? So therefore you actually are busy Or is it that you say you're busy even when you're not so that people think that you're relevant? No, it's the first one. so it's the idea of saying yes to everything because it comes to that place of fear of insecurity or sometimes not being able to provide or like I say, sometimes not B I been relevant or being useful So saying yes to everything has led to me being busy and then I found myself catching myself tell people, I'm really busy And I realized that I was wearing it almost as a badge of honour. I'm busy. L at look how useful I am, look doing what I should be doing. and I realized that It actually wasn't a good thing. I realized that I was diminishing myself while I was trying to blow my own tires up. I made a promise my micro habit was to stop telling people I'm busy and start saying I'm productive or Working on things that I'm enjoying now and say no. Yes, yeah, very much. And getting into the habit of just going no, I don't want to be busy doing it. I want to enjoy doing it or I don't feel that I can do that in a stress free way that it would diminish from me. So trying to get into that habit is almost inspired by this conversation that we had with Jamila, Jamile. We've heard it from Jamila, we've heard it from Vicki Patterson a couple of years before I've always feeling that you've got to be on the go. you've got to be busy, you've got to be Constantly Present. takes its toll Let's have a listen to Jamila, explain it My idea of success being very much so what I do not just for others, but especially for the people that I love, how much I'm able to show up for them, how much I'm able to appreciate this life and this planet and how well I use my time And that does not involve working an eighty hour week anymore. And it's a huge position of privilege from which I can say that because there are some people who are like a single mother of five or something who have to. But I do think that it has just become a generally hyper normalized thing that just a hustle, hustle, hustle, a quiire, quiet, quiire, sleep when you're dead, rest when you're retired And I think post pandemic, a lot of us had a wake up call where we were like, hang on a second doing Why? Why are we waiting? Why are we postponing pleasure? Why are we postponing love and community and friendship and connection for all this shit. And so I don't mean that to sound As judgmental as it just did, it's more a judgment of myself, of why I spent fifteen years, never taking a week off, never really spending meaningful time with my friends, having them go through huge moments in life that I wasn't there to witness just to just to impress a bunch of strangers So cool. There she is Jamena Jamil on highigh pererformance. That was episode two hundred and forty four, which is almost fifty percent ago on high performance, we're now sort of almost double that number of episodes. And of course, if you enjoy any of the clips from these guests, then you can You can click the link in the description and you can listen to the full conversations. Can I advise anyone to go and listen to that and stick with it in the end because she still gives us what I would still regard as the best answers to the question of what is your weakness? Yes, let's not ruin it for people who ha't heard it, but it was we were open mouthed Won't we? I think this is really interesting this idea of've never taken a break and sort of notot resting and not relaxing Um And I think often so hard for people And there be people listen to this now who are like, ye, that's me, but I don't know what to do about it. So let's talk then and you've shared that you've made a conscious decision to say you're less busy I think what I did was try and reframe what being busy actually looks like because I think there's being busy And then as you said, There's being productive, there's being useful, there's being of value And actually I think that That great phrase If everything's a priority, then nothing's a priority. It's never truer. the one we' over really busy, but it's so hard to say no to people So what I've actually decided to do in the last six months is be really honest about my own capacity levels Becauseuse what I used to say to people is things are busy at the moment, but I'll come back to you in six months Or I let you know when things quieten down and it feels like you're fobbing people off Whereas actually vulnerability is so important. So someone now messages me to do something I am like oververly busy already I just I just reply or I voice notote them or I email them and I just say Nothing would make me happy then to say yes But to say yes to you is laying you down because I won't deliver but also lay me down because it will oververly stress me. but also letting down all the other people I'm already doing things with And I just simply don't have the capacity. And I know that the first thing that will fall is my own well beinging and the second thing that will fall is the relationship with my wife and my kids and I do have to protect that stuff reallyar So I'm just gonna have to say no, but I really do appreciate you. What's been the reactions to sharon? Every single time People have said Thank you so much for being so honest. totally get it. In fact I feel the same, but I had to ask. And I think often we think that people are going to less of us or it's going to be a real issue for them that we said no. ninety nine percent of the time They've probably asked three or four people the same question. And they're waiting to see who comes back and says, yes And I think You know, you don't have to give them such a complex response like, no is a one word sentence, right But equally, I do think that Personal relationships are important and at some time You might well be able to help or you may well require bit of help or advice from them. So I think just shutting people off with no thanks is not for me is a very different message too Of course, I'm like, I'd love to help you. I love helping people. just not currently able to do it. And I think that's absolutely fine. That's brilliant. I love that. Beuse that's really elegant way in there of in an honest way an authentic way, but I like the idea of it gives you a plausible explanation of it that most people can empathize with Can I also talk about what I think is a really good fear? G. the fear of not being good enough So so many people that listen to this show will reach out to us and ask about impmoster syndrome And I think we both now have the same opinion that A it isn't a syndrome. Yeah. B it isn't a negative It is a great thing becausecause it sharpens you at the time that you need it If you're sensing that you've got imposter syndrome, it means that you care about the thing that you' imposter syndrome about But I've also increasingly had people reach out to me saying, Oh I'm an overthinker I'm an overthinker. it wears me out. I think too much about stuff. I dwell on things. I reflect on things And again, I really want people to understand and we'll play a couple clips here about. A couple of overthinkers couple of people that struggle with sef down The reason why I think it's so important is that people think that being an overthinker is an issue Look at how often you've come up with the right answer Would you have come up with the right answer If you weren't an overthinker Being an overthinker is simply Get your thoughts in order And I think we We give it a negative connotation when we should give it a positive connotation. L if you say o I think deeply about stuff, people go, o, that's cool. Wow. Yeah. If you say, I dwell on stuff a lot. peopleeople go, o, you need to stop doing that. You don't need to stop doing that because they're the same thing. And I think often and we'll hear from a couple of guests on you pick which clip you want to play first. Often the elite performers that we speak to on high performance are elite performers precisely because That voice, that doubt, that fear, that overthinking is present, and it never goes away. Yeah, I like that. I've recently chatted with Steve Peters at an event who was talking about imposter syyndrome and he was like, that your brain doing its job perfectly well. It's what it should be doing Be it's saying there's something important to you and you're questioning whether I have the ability to meet it. And if I don't, what do I need to do to be able to address that challenge. So Yeah, I think it's a great idea Should we listen to One of my favorite footballers of the last few years that we've certainly sat down and spoke to Scott McTomy because we met him when he was still at Manchester United and he was still meeting the challenges there, but then He faced the fear of leaving his comfort zone going out to Italy and has thrived in a new league H he is Everyone has it. It's just how you control that and how you manage that in terms of your craft. Do doesn't matter what you do if you work wherever or if you're in a different sort of sort of job or you're an athlete Everyone has that time where they think I might not have been as professional as I could have been there and we've got a game coming up. Can I still do it? keeps going around in your head thinking can I keep performing at the level that I'm going? And that is ultimately what fuels me The sef doub Does it? Yeah, becausecause you always think every season you come back, Im I the same athlete. canan I still score kind of still potentially makeaking an assist or can we still win trophies? And that self doubt is what drives you and pushes you to do more. So how often are you questioning yourself, your ability your talent, your approach. A lot more than what people would more than what people would think They'll see some footballers going through an amazing time in the career where they're Winning trophies, scoring loads of goals and stuff like that. They'll still have self doubt in the brain thinking next game can I do it I've scored a goal against Wolves, can of scored the next goal. That was my first go in Premi League. And then I was like, ye, I'm delighted, but can I get another and that self doubt comes in, then you start thinking, no, no, if you Do everything properly and take it step by step? Yeah, of course I can. So good that And I think Scott would agree with us even after the success he's had in Italy That voice is still there What about next season What about the World Cup? and I really keep this level up. I think it's so valuable. Can I play a clip as well from Phil Heath? Oh. So he is multi times Mr. Olympia. I mean You know what, it was one of the most kind of spiritual and deeper conversations. We had to remember him talking about going past the graveyards and the cemeteries and how that kind of kept him grounded every. He had those emerald greenyes didn't it theort. drew you in and unbelievable muscles. Yeah, that Yeah. I mean, what a body. Phil Heath Have a listen to this this is also a cracking, cracking clip from high performance. What do you believe high performance is Oh man a relentless pursuit You know giving yourself permission. be your most optimal self doing it while being your most vulnerable self Because it requires all of that You know, being in the darkness recognizing the light within to navigate through that darkness And that's where you meet. performance at its highest level. So really, what we're saying to people is whether you're listening to what you think, I think Scott thinks or Phil thinks Life is not about avoiding The negative thought It's about processing it, understanding that it has an important job to do, and that without it What's the alternative of just notot thinking deeply about things and diving head first into bad decisions all the time. Yeah, exactly. It's about recognizing that it's a signal inn't it that's telling you this is important to me there there's something significant that I need to address Hven Hving the willingness not to think that Courage is the absence of feaarith, It's the willingness to go and comfortable with those moments of discomfort Would you talk to us a bit about the psychology here of naming your discomfort talking openly about it in a group Yeah. so if you think about like, These emotions, Do you remember Simon Sinek when he spoke to us about, We often don't have a language for our emotions. So do you remember when he did that experiment with you about best friend test And he was getting you to talk about what would your best friend say? What is it that's significant? And he said that you have to keep going back and asking the question What is it that I do for you? What is it that my presence? Why are you my friend? and willing to do that? becausecause he says We don't have a language and we'll first of all go out Polite ye, You make me laugh and then eventually you get into those deeper emotive answers where you go. just feel better being in your company. You make me feel more optimistic. about the world And he said, B Our emotions often don't have a language attached to it. So We feel them before we can articulate them So the idea of being able to take them and name them and label them gets it out of our head and allows us to be able to explore it and address it So again, another great example is we referenced Steve Peters and he gave that example of if you give somebody two bowls, they can juggle it. giveive them three, they'll start to struggle anything over four Most people will start to drop it. And he talks about our emotions are like those bowalls. They're in our head and they're constantly there bouncing around. So our ability to get them out on page or articulate them to somebody else allows us to then be able to then bring our logical brain to it and go So what do I plan to do with this? How do I plan to address it So emotion of so fear is our emotions showing up. And if we can give it a label often think about it in more subtle ways. Do you remember Catherine Ryan, we saort of bouncing around episodes there, but Catherine Ryan used the example of she said if she saw Michael McIntyre with a Saturday night show She used to say, I'm jealous. Why has he gott to show I'm not? And then she realized she wasn't jealous. She was envious And she was envious because she felt she could have a S night show So once she had that ability to articulate that emotion, She was able to come with a plan phone her agent and say, how do I get to have a prrimetime show on a Saturday evening So our ability to take these emotions like fear, give them more helpful titles allows us then to be able to plan How How can we diminish it? How can we minimize it? How can we address it? It's so good because then it goes from being a handbrake to a throttle Absolutely Definitely We've said it before that If we if we don't address these emotions, like when Your neighbor gave you that book Think about the emotions that you were suffering. Think about the emotions that you were feeling at that time, you know, it might have been. insecurity, it might have been desired to Bter future but not knowing how to do it, it might have been feeling I don't quite belong in the groups that you've been. And then your ability to be able to articulate those emotions and then go, So what do I do about it?ans put your hand up when they ask for volunteers at Rapture to go on the TV thing It gave you the ability to go. I want to go to London and film a lot in because you'd been able to articulate this to of power. A so good. Can I play one final clip? qu Who is that? Robin Van Percy. haveave you heard of him Oh yeah. I think He's doing I've been following how he's doing as head coach at the moment at Roterdam. He's had another good season. Yeah. Well, I think it's because he's an emotionally intelligent guy And this is what he said to us when we were talking. about the importance of doing exactly what you've just said of naming your emotion, naming your fear sharing it Let's listen it if the opponent was like stepping on my toes and Soon trying to bully me I was going really hard. and I was going against it. but In the end, a couple after a period, I started to think about that. and Then it made sense to me. I was like, okay, the yeah reaction I have I shouldn't have that reaction. I shouldn't go against it. I should stand above it So this is like a process of a couple of years Because if I go against it and then it's such a struggle. I was just like mentally, physically, I was drained after every matchful. quuite a long time from the age of twenty three to twenty six Roughly there I was just necked. every game. wasas there a particular light bulb moment when something came on and you thought, I need to be doing something differently here Or was it just a gradual process? Yeah there was just I was talking to my wife actually about it. I wass like, I was telling her like that it cost me so much energy like every game. And then she said, okay, but you have to find a way to make that less because then it becomes more Enjoyable, everything and I said, Yeahah, but how And then we spoke about that and then I realized that I was like constantly fighting, you know? And then she made one comment like, would you have to choose your battle. I was like, yeah, you know, I don't want to fight these small battles. I'm going to go for bigger ones, you know. So then I said, okay, what as well if I missed a chance, for example, that did's a process as well. I was very emotional after I missed a chance. I was like constantly, no and showing the world how disappointed I was then At one point I was like, yeah, but that's weakness somewhere, you know, because then the opponent sees that I'm disappointed and that I'm not happy with myself So I slowly started to change that. And I was like, Okay You know, if I don't show my weakness Um then they don't have like, if I don't react on the bullying, if I don't react U if I miss a chance then I become stronger and better And once I started to do that, I talked with Asamin about thism and then Everything became lighter, you know? It was so heavy. It was for all those years it was heavy, but I was making it heavy. Yeah. I just needed a couple of years to realize that So that that line at the end there from from Robin It was heavy but I was making it heavy. I think it's a really important place to bring this conversation about fear to a close that the fear itself is not heavy The fear itself is not painful fear itself is not bringing agony to our world It's our response to it you remember what Jannah Conter said? I think it's again, a really good bit of advice for people listening to this to try and let go of of the thing that's actually causing the pain here for them. Yeah, do you remembered that again, she sort of cited Juan Koto Spanish psychologist that worked with her on this stintid that was like Struggle will always happen It's and how you resist it depends on how much pain you feel Again, it goes back to the cave analogy. not going into the cave and spending so much time being fearful of what's in the cave and justifying why you're not going to go in there means that it becomes more and more painful. it grows bigger and bigger. as Robbery Monersy said, it gets heavier and heavier because We frighten ourselves by what we don't know Being willing to step into that discomfort of going and seeing what is it that frightens me is where the power really lies. We get beyond it. That's where the treasury is So if our resistance to the fear is a zero, then the fear carries zero Yeah, the pain that you feel the zero because you anticipated it and we can move on from it so much faster. So Johannna's example was when she hits that beautiful backhand shot, it hits the net and bounces back down on your side That's always going to feel frustrating If you can then go, just laugh about it. It's just a game, I can move on from it and I'll be ready for the next show We don't fe feeling inadequate then we just prepare ourselves to let us be better next time. I think it's really good. I remember when I was struggling you know mentally in my twenties and I went to see someone The first thing that they said was Landlay, her name was Ruth. She said the first bit of advice for you. Stop trying to fight it and accept the feeling. Accept that you don't feel good and watch what happens lifted, not all not completely, not instantly. But it lifted And I think because My resistance had dropped from a ten to a three or a four. It was still there and eventually I got it to a zero eventually wenton away Well, that's like from what I understand, that's the genesis of all sort of like when you go to addiction therapy whether it's alcoholics anonymous or And here those are the bill in organisations that help people. The first thing is surrender to it Don't keep fighting in, donon't keep resist in it, but surrender to it and when you can surrender, then you can find better ways of of responding So cool. C couple of questions from the audience. Sally Dylan on the Rhonda Rousey, by the way, while I'm Rhonda back in the ring a couple of weeks ago. I'd like to getet paid two million dollars for fifteen seconds got my goodness. Ronda you're such an inspiration. I'm sorry you've been affected by so many trolls who are keyboard warriors. You can hear her talk about that on our episode with her. We'll stick it in the show notes She says, while I'm a fan and not a fighter, I'm also a woman who's worked in a lot of male dominated industries and you have served as an inspiration And I use the what would Ronda Rousesy do in my head and the answer was always, work hard, do the right thing Nowon be a badass. wishing you so much goodness in the future Jumbber you know what I enjoyed about Rondo as well as the interviewers, Jimbber when we met her in Hollywood and we went and She had a mum and a sister there and we all went for a drink the on the rooftop balcony afterwards and felt like she let a guard down and she really showed us that she wasn't just a badass. That was like her professional position. But when she bought all of her family and friends and they sat upstairs for about seven hours. That's right. And then when they left Beople came over to us. That bit was thatass. Yeah.. Thanks a lot, Ronda. Maybe some of that two million quid could be passed back to us for the afternoon getting drunk you. But Sila with a moman a sister's was the bit that you saw who she was. She was a really, really special person. Absolutely. A Swannie sent a message saying why didn't you ask a question to Davaveid Cool that lots of people want to answer What the answer to And that's when he let Nica win the last race and the following first race. Why I've always felt that's why he wasn't worldld Champion Sena Michael only let their partner win after they were champions. They also use them to be champions by holding up traffic. It's a good point, a miss from me, but also what you need to understand A SWani is that That was the same day we filmed Carlos signigns. Cterigns. camera crew that he was providing, though his buddies were like, nine hours late. We were just standing waiting for this. Carlos arrived before them They arrived at to set up all their stuff. So we literally got like half an hour, David calls up before I had to race to get a flight back to the UK. Do you think we'll be able to get David back on again then? At some point. I mean, he has his own podcast now, so he's probably moved beyond us, but you never know. Okay. We've got history, so I'd like to think so. We'll make a note of that. Yes. Damen, has your fear lifted I've enjoyedking about it. It's great isn't? Yeahah, haveave you? Yeah, the more we talk about these things, the more we give other people the right to talk about these things. and when you do that Yeah hs. I really enjoyed the conversation. No. Thank you very much for listening to this one. and if you want to, check out the show notes. you can see all of the episodes from High Performance. and if there's someone in your life struggling with fear Please send this to them. I think it'll be really valuable for them. Please hit subscribe if this has been valuable for you and don't forget up next Niica Rosberg joins us on highigh pererformance. Here's another quick clip from Niico We'll leave you with this one. to the moment then that you cross the line in Abert Abbey And then you do know You are the world champion. Yeah and all those fears and all those doubts You can finally put to bed Is that the reality of what happened in your head crossing the line first of all, there was just relief. There was no joy There was no happiness or anything. It was just Oh my God, relief Relieft expect that orr did it feel different to how you thought it would feel? Relief And me saying that's it, I'm done I've done it. How how quickly did you decide on the line on the line? No. Yeah, I'm done. Yeah U this was this was like when you're watching at home you're watching the television, you it looks like the easiest thing in the world to drive that little race car, drive it in circles. fromr time to time win the race But when you're in it and you're in that life, it's like super, super hard It it's very It's very intense this thing. so whichich all I think everybody who's in a high performance job We'll know this feeling, but it gets exacerbated even more When you're in the public eye and there's hundreds of millions of people following you live, you're measured by tenths of a second. Every is on a knife's edge because driving these race cars is so incredibly hard um Now some people listening might say, oh, yada, yada, yada you're earning the top guys now fifty million a year, just shut up and drive But you as a human, you just, you know, you're in your little bubble and everybody has their own struggles then. and even though you're earning fifty million a year, or the best are now, then the struggles are still real in that moment. Even a Lewis Hamilton, ear tons of money at Ferrari If you ask him about last year, how horrible was it fromrom a scale from one to ten, he'll give you a ten