Byzantium on Screen and Final Farewell

Hello everyone and welcome to the History of Byzantium Episode three hundred and fifty four Final Qions Today I'll tackle the last few questions that came in after fourteen fifty three These are generally fun speculation or about me and the podcast Before we get to that though, a long time ago I made it my goal to create an acrostic the eleven emperors named Constantine I thought this would help us all remember who each of them was I now think it's unlikely that any of us will remember all eleven exactly, but hopefully it's a fun exercise nonetheless Most of the credit for my final version should go to listener Sean M, who came up with the best format and opening lines I have since edited it to reflect my own historical interpretations Let's see what you think. The final acrostic actually spells out constant teines which I think is justifiable as it was intended to help you remember who all eleven constant teens were. Here we go. Christianized the Roman state oldest offspring of the great neearly rained one hundred days saved the city. so they say Theo Fares called him dung assassinated by his mom Noted writer purple born The Sayer's brother earns our scorn If Monomakos tried his best No Duas could save the rest Eleven fell amongst the crowd So his forebears Proud. Constantine I needs no introduction. Constantine II was his eldest surviving son after he murdered his actual firstborn boy, Crispus Constantine III is the most anonymous of the bunch The son of Heraclius who died three months after his father from an illness Constantine IV was his grandson who had to face down the first Bulgar attack and the first siege of Constantinople by the Arabs This was more of a blockade than a formal siege, and Constantine was young and not really in charge of the defenses, hence saved the city So they say One of our main historians for that period is Theophanes the confonfessor, who was writing after the victory of the iconophiles And he claimed that Constantine V, iconoclast in chief, had pooped in his baptismal font as a baby, and so should be called Constantine dung named. Hence Theiovanniis call him dung Constantine VI was blinded by his mother Irene and later died from the wound Constantine VII insisted on being called Popfioenitos and wrote on court procedure. so noted writer purple born Constantine VII was Basil II's brother, whose short reign was not popular, hence the Sayer's brother earns our scorn Constantine IIinth has been rehabilitated by Anthony Coldellis for working diligently in the face of Turkic Pchenneg and Norman attacks Hence, if Monomakos tried his best Followed by no Dukas could save the rest Constantine I t Dukas seemed to squander the Empire's resources Eve of Manzicred Constantine XII is, of course, the Paliolocos who faced down Mehet's siege Shall I read it again now I'll be quit. Christianized the Roman state oldest offspring of the G Nearly rained one hundred days saved the city, so they say The Ovanes called him dung assassinated by his momum Noted writer purple born The slayer's brother earns our scorn If Monomakos tried his best, no Dukas could save the rest Eleven fell amongst the crowd So his fbees would be proud When I meet you on a future podcast tour. I'll expect you tod have it memorized. Listener VA asks the perfect follow up question, Who is your favorite and least favorite Constantine I'll stick to the podcast era as ever and say Constantine the fifth, Iiconoclast in Chief is probably my favorite, and Constantine the tenth Dukast is my least I'm not sure in the end, it was a very auspicious name Though, as listeners have pointed out, Andronicus is clearly the worst name in Byzantine history after filthy old number one Nber two lost Anatolia to the Turks, and number four conspired needlessly against his brother and father And even over in Trabisond, Andronicus III began his reign by murdering two of his brothers. anyyway Listener LC asks Wh is your favorite emperor? and which period did you enjoy learning about the most? sururprised you the most Anastasius came out number one in my list of ten greatest emperors. And part of that was just the modest, restrained contrast he presented to the relentless, restless Justinian And I think the problem we have with Byzantine history is that we only truly know Justinian as a personality There are almost no other emperors we get to know. the way we do with him or the way we seem to with the Julio Claudians and Hadrian and other earlier figures Many of the favorite emperors that people have Heracleus, Leo IId. Romanos Diogenis Constantine I. are more like film characters than real people They are defined by the incredible drama they took part in rather than much actual knowledge about what they were like as people for various reasons, during the course of the podcast, I have felt positively towards Anastasius. Maurice Constantine the Fth Npherus I first, Theophyus, Basil I second, John Comninos Theodolos Garris and Mana Wel I second Halia Locos. offtten because they were trying something different or were unexpectedly competent. in tough times Obviously I had positive views of lots of other emperors, but those were the ones where I thought I felt a bit more positively towards them than the sources were necessarily asking me to In the end, slightly boringly, I don't think I have a favorite. I think that's part of the problem of doing the podcast and having to assess everyone So carefully can say Nphorous focus is incredibly impressive. but you can't ignore that he got himself overthrown So if I have to pick one, I will stick with Anastasia As for the periods I enjoyed learning about the most The two most fascinating periods were two occasions when foreign civilizations intruded most deeply into the narrative So the rise of the Caliphate and then the first Crusade In both cases, I was exposed to sources from other cultures and all sorts of twisty alternative history possibilities . but it was probably the middle Byzantine period I enjoyed the most I knew that the Arabs would take the easastern provinces from the Romans before I began the podcast I assume that the two sides behaved like modern states with peace treaties and formal battles and all of that The idea that the Roman frontier would become a land which its enemies ravaged every summer as a sort of standing penalty for their continued resistance. was something I'd never understood And it reframed The Romans as a beleaguered people, under permanent pressure Um You know, that threat hanging over them I thought was fascinating and Narratively, I think it's the moment when the Romans become The underdogs and kind of uncontested heroes of their own story. And I'd have to say the origins of Islam are the most surprising thing. I learnnt about Because I just knew nothing before the podcast began Listener TVH asks if you could be a fly on the wall for any Byzantine event. What would it be They add, I think the final meeting of Irene and Constantine VI, or when Heraclius is informed of the fall of the East would be it for me which is a bit bleak, TVH How about Heraclius returning with the true cross to Jerusalem Oh beyond that to Constantinople. I mean, surely those would have been ecstatic occasions worth seeing In terms of pure drama, my mind drifts to the siege of Antioch when the Crusaders finally get into the city only to be besieged themselves I am 'm taking listeners to Antioch this autumn and I'm excited to try and recreate some of the drama for them I feel like if you are going to be a fly on the wall, you kind of want to find out information something that we don't know about So I kind of I think of Basil I and you know, what What event would you be present at that would tell us why he was the way he was? know he has a famous meeting with the rebel Barda Siros, where Supposedly Sler Ros gives him advice. on how to rule That may be Celos's invention or a just a later story, but that would be an interesting one U Or did he have a final confrontation with his uncle? Basil de Capinos, as he dismissed him from office that would have been worth seeing if such an event took place Listener HC asks if you were able to time travel and become the personal advisor to an emperor Which would it be and what would your advice be I'm taking this as a different question to the one we had in an earlier episode, which was about time traveling to change someone's mind about one thing With this, I'm assuming I get to be their advisor for many years. Now you think I might say Justinian, since he created many problems which his successor struggled with. But do you think he's gonna listen to me Probably not Let's go instead for Ncepherus focus First of all, if you've got cause, have Zimiskis executed or at least properly exiled Next, stop angering the people of Constantinople. Let's work on your PR. Let's show off your piety in public Then we need to do some tweaking to the easastern defences because you never know when a steppe tribe might break through there as unlikely as it might seem As for your son in law, Basil II I think he needs to be married off to a suitable wife and start having children That way the succession will be sorted How about that Next we have a question about the fourourth Crusade. Since I presented the Latin side of things as more of a dark comedy than a tragedy Listener FC says, Who would I cast in a Monty Python esque film about it Now I'm really trying not to overthink this one since I could spend hours on it. H They are of age now. you could go for John Clees or Roan Atkinson, as Dandelo, rolling their eyes at the lies and stupidity of the French lords. But if we're thinking Hollywood How about Brian Cranston You could age him up and he could play Dandalo. more howal like in the first half of the story and more Wolter White like in the second half Or how about John Ham as Bonnie Face of Monfat able to look flustered and then be icy in the same story And if we go for that, that means Americans are playing the Latin, so I can cast British actors as the Byzantines. U I liked Josh O'Connor who played young Prince Charles on the C crrown play Alexius Anglos's naivety You could have Tom Hollander playing Alexius Anggelos Comninos deeply conflicted and then fleeing at the last moment And then why not go full Loki and have Tom Hiddleston play Mozu flloss like that full of bluster running away at the end Listener FC asks If you got to choose five characters from Byzantine history to have over for dinner Who would they be So to take this a little bit seriously, I don't want to invite five super interesting people since they'll all talk over one another. So let's just have two people who I actually want to quiz Alexeia' Commnin Nos comes to mind. someomeone who saw the emmpire at a low point and a high point, who met the Turks and the Latins and who had to change the whole culture of the court You feel like he'd have some great stories Another I think of is Basil de Cabinos, the eunuch son of the Emperor Romanus, who then ran the government under Folocas andiskes and Basil II You know, between him and Comme Noss, I think no one else will get a word in So we need some guests who will just sit back and enjoy the meal about Michael III, the drunkard Sounds like the sort of person we need And why not invite Leit Prand of Cromona since we know he'll write up a Scathing account of the whole evening afterwards And then how about as our fifth person? Jes yeah might be a niche reference for some of you. She was a noble woman who lived in ninth century Constantinople, and was one of those in contention to be Theophylus' bride. Instead, she went on to be a prolific oser and hymnographer the only woman I'm aware of whose music appears in the Byzantine liturgy And she went on to be the abbbess of a convent in the capital I feel like she can hold her own with this crowd and perhaps provide lyrical entertainment. On to slightly more serious questions, listener KT asks looking back at the whole of the podcast, is there anything you would do differently if you knew then what you know now? My guiding principle with the podcast has been to make the show for me as in an imaginary listener with my taste and rough level of knowledge of the subject And that has served me very well, I think Part of the podcast' success is that anything you hear me talk about is something I only learnnt about Yesterday At least metaphorically U You know, I only learnnt these things in the last week or two before I wrote the script and so the history remains new and fresh to me and I'm excited to tell you about but lookingooking back, perhaps I took this principle too far by starting the show as an immediate follow up to the history of Rome. probably should have researched the history of the Eastern Empire from three and thirty to four hundred seventy six Not necessarily then done a narrative of that period, but just to give myself a much better grounding what was happening and Constantinople was like and what the East was like. For example, I would have gone into the economic and demographic state of the Eastern Empire and explained that much more clearly It was probably four or five years into the podcast before I fully understood that there were only really two cities in Byzantium. There's Alonica in Constantinople All the other urban centers were just towns or like a fortified hilltop rather than actual cities The entire Roman world was ruralized between the crisis of the third century and the Arab invasions After that, there were no other cities And it's it's Something you really need to understand is that the people in those places didn't disappear, they just stopped living in one place as in in those particular streets and workshops, but the same amount of people were still in the countryside It helps you understand The strengths by Zantnti Mad but how things have changed Classical period Looking back on the podcast from a sort of technical and financial point of view Obviously, things have changed significantly since I began. Um So in retrospect, promising to produce six High quality Byzantine stories every year was very foolish I promised that before I'd made one Each of them then took weeks and weeks to research This slowed the narrative down and once I started doing tours as well, the schedule became chaotic But in my defense, there was no patreon back then or real culture of monthly subscriptions as there is now across the whole economy So I made my mistakes in real time and I'm grateful to all of you. who've stuck with me. across the decade Listener BD asks how the history of Byzantium has impacted your own life and worldview It would be interesting to know how your worldview has shifted if certain figures or periods of history have become tied in your mind to specific events or people in your life I did an AMA on Reddit a while ago and several people asked similar questions So I'm going to answer three different questions that this one inspired, if that's okay So in terms of my personal connection to periods of history, yes, I remember very clearly where I was living in London when I started the podcast And I was having to balance research with my day job working for my dad So When I think about Zeno, I think about my parents' dining room table, as I remember putting those first episodes together there and All the anxiety that that accompanied that And then when I first sold an episode of the podcast, I remember that day very clearly I was playing cricket that day and then I came home and I put the episode up Live on sale and by the time I came back from the shower, I'd already got Several emails telling me the system wasn't working properly. But it it's a positive memory really because so many people were trying to buy the episode As soon as it was live For the middle Byzantenth centuries, I spent a lot of time in the British liibrary So I associate the Arab raids with that incredible building And then the crusades are indelibly linked with COVID. I was in lockdown when I produced all the first Crusade episodes. which was both a really enjoyable time Reading and a really unpleasant time in life generally In terms of how my view of Byzantine history has changed, it's worth remembering that I knew very little before I started. I'd read John Julius Norrich's book covering the whole history of the Empire. But you know, I couldn't remember any of the details my knowledge was basically Justinum, Heraclius, Justinian II and his nose Basil, the Bulgarlayer, the Crusades and then the final siege So in that sense, almost everything I've presented to you has been new to me I assumed Iiconoclasm was a major event with people burning all their paintings I assumed medieval Constantinople was a theocratic state with rampant superstition amongst the population. I believed Basil had reallyally blinded thousands of people In a broader sense, though What has the podcast taught me about history that I didn't know before A lot, obviously But here are just the big takeaways The first major insight I had was about superstition and legitimacy We still live in an age where the narrative we teach children is that people in the past believed in magic and dragons and we are now people of science who know better But when you read history, you quickly realize that human beings, in particular human nature has never really changed We're all governed by paranoia and superstition It's just our frames of reference which change. So with Byzantine politics, it's all about legitimacy. If an emperor wins his battles, then God must be on his side It's not that people thought God interfered in the physical struggle of the battle like Homeric gods did M that the outcome of a battle was assumed to be God's will. And if that same emperor was then killed in the next battle then I guess that was part of God's plan as well and politics are retrospectively viewed being divinely ordered Byzantine religious belief and politics were much easier to understand onnce you get your head around this, But then of course, you realize But the modern world isn't that different For example, it is my opinion that no one today really understands economics The world is too big a marketplace for any one person or economic model to map it perfectly So we all follow who or what is doing well, and assume that to some extent God is on their side. If their business fails and they go bankrupt Th then we write books about how their economic model was flawed all along and now we know better. And then we follow the next trend When you scale this up to the level of a country Economic prosperity becomes the key to political legitimacy in the same way that the outcome of a battle was key to an emperor's fate in Byzantine times A more mundane example would be modern sport In fact, there's a England cricket captain called Mike Breeley who wrote that onnce A result of a cricket match is announced. People tend to perceive it as having been both inevitable and morally correct As in when we look back on the results we Look for all the clues that led up to it and assume that this was in some way preordained That was always going to happen and we offer explanations for why and what players should have done differently even though we'll know A sporting contest is full of luck And In the case of cricket is dependent on the weather and conditions Um So this is almost exactly like A Byzantine battle dependent on weather and conditions full of luck and yet viewed afterward as a moral determination of the leaders of the army's worth and an inevitable Another takeaway, I would say, is that it's become clear to me just how violent and acquisitive humans really are The early centuries of Byzantine history are a bit misleading on this point becausecause the Romans are largely dealing with similar sized states Persians, the vandals, the Visigoths, and so on And all those states have ambassadors and make peace treaties have a foreign policy that one can analyze. So at that stage, history looked quite modern to me Wars did break out, but only on occasions be resolved with a new treaty But during later reigns, let's say Basil II I remember realizing that the Romans were negotiating with a dozen different states along their borders, and at some point every single one of them broke their word and raided Roman territory And when we say raid We means that soldiers crossed the border and abducted, raped, murdered and sold into slavery the Roman people they could get their hands on And it had kind of taken me that long to realize that left to their own devices, humans will always cover what their neighbourors have And if they have the means to take it, they will Often those political systems depended on the ability of their leaders to deliver free stuff to their followers I think this realization reflects pretty well on the modern world baffling as they can be, modern financial systems are a miraculous invention we should cherish because they deliver stuff to us without the need for violence and allow us to trust our neighbourors. My final takeaway would be about democracy It seems to me that Antony Calellis' insights about the Byzantine political system are the most important thing I've highlighted on this podcast We are children of the Enlightenment and like to tell ourselves that all was corruption and autocracy until the eighteenth century and the revolutions that brought constitutional democracy to the world I think Byzantine history is a rebuke to that idea The Romans had a highly functioning elected monarchy long before Western Europeans invented that idea I'm not trying to claim the Byzantines are a model for modern states, quite the opposite. I'm saying that some civilizations were perfectly happy with their model of government in the past The Roman people had a very harmonious state Of course they were rich and poor and powerful and powerless But the state and the Church were present in every corner of the empire, offering some form of justice and accountability and care to ordinary people. while the centralized court system offered a way for anyone to rise through the bureaucracy and army and prevented feudal hierarchies from becoming entrenched In defending their way of life from outsiders, rich and poor alked seemed pretty united on the fundamentals of what made their country worth dying for This has made me reflect on our own. Western democratic norms seeing them as more of a response to the industrialized population growth that we've experienced in the last two centuries rather than the ideal form of governance that will always be the best way to run things Of course, you will have your own takeaways. and may have known someome of these things long before I did. It's there are just a few examples of What's crossed my mind, well covering this fascinating piece of history Finally, Listener MR asks as host of both the history of Byzantium and previously The TV crritic. org Have you seen Vikings Valhalla, which featured the tenth century Byzantines including figures like Maniarchis If so, what are your thoughts on the later Roman Empire actually making it to TV He adds that they never referred to it as the Roman Empire but rather just Constantinople and the emperor of Constantinople which sounds like a sensible compromise given, you don't want to confuse people So I watched the first few episodes of the first series of Vikings, but it didn't grab me I've seen some clips of the Romans making their various appearances I think it's tricky to portray the Byzantines on screen without playing into Western stereotypes you know, of them being oriental and effeminate you know, in one of these scenes, for example, you know, the Vikings are unadorned, big, tough men whileile the Romans are all decked out in jewelry You'd have to work hard to draw out the nuances of Byzantine society, and most films and TV shows are not about that They are about peddling stereotypes, and I'm not just being critical. stereotypes are important. They are a shorthand to get your narrative where it needs to go I'm glad the Byzantines were featured at all really? I remain Surprised that no one has taken up Theodora's story and done something with it in Hollywood In an era where women's stories are being prioritized, hers just seems too good to be true I'd just love to see more byyzanti on screen But it is hard to see how that will happen very often There's quite a bit out there from the Turkish perspective, but that's not really the era or the angle that most of us are looking for I think the first Cusade would make a brilliant TV series Geopolitics being what it is. That won't happen Beyond that I'm looking at you, the listeners. I know Lots of you are published authors having written historical fiction And I know some of you are working on books now And I really hope a story like that could become a hit because I think a book adaptation from something that's already popular is probably the most likely way. for Byzantium to make it to the big screen Well The time has come to start saying goodbye The next episode of the History of Byzantium will be the last of the podcast My hope was to continue for another year or so and get to all those topics and Byzantine stories I hadn't had the time T But three days ago, My second child was born A son And I'm naming him Petrus Flavius Sabbatius No. I'm just going to go and spend time with my family I don't want to keep listeners hanging around waiting for me to come back and for deadlines to forever be pushed into the distance And I have found it impossible to make decisions about my own future. until I can get this project over the line I am sorry to leave some pages unturned And I'm particularly sorry to all of you who wanted to hear about Roman science and engineering and various other topics I hope you can forgive me and will enjoy one last episode in my company Next week One part of the history of Byzantium that will continue are the tours to Turkey and beyond, which I'll continue to lead for the foreseeable future. And speaking of tours, if you enjoy a bit of papal history, then my fellow podcasters Brie and Fy over at Pontifacts are leading a tour to Rome In january twenty twenty seven which is very exciting. listen I know personally, just messaged to say he's booked And he's going to meet the Pope So if that sounds like something you'd be interested in, then follow Pontifacts on social media to see all the details P O N T I F A C T S or go to tinyyurl d. com forward slash Pontifacts Tour to find out about the tour Pontifact is a show where Brie does the research and then has to explain everything about the Papacy to Fy And you get a similar dynamic on the History in Zoomer podcast, which covers all things Roman history from the series to the silly Check them out wherever you get your podcasts or visit Zoumahistory.