Final Thoughts on ID4

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We will be united in our common interest podcasts Perhaps it's faate that today is the fourth of July wait, check the calendar, Thd of July. And you will once again be fighting for our freedom, not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution but from podcasting. We're fighting for our right to exist as podcasters. and should we win the day, the fourth or third of July will no longer be known as an American holiday, but as the day when the world declared in one voice, Everybody, be sure you're recording Welcome back to the inccomparable. I am the inspirational former fighter pilot turned Pident turned grieving widower, but not really for very long. Jason Snell quoting from of course, the immortal Screenplay of Independence Day by Dean Devlin and Roland Emerich. We are here on the fortieth anniversary. No, thirtieth anniversary of Independence Day and indndependence Day in the United States to talk about Independence Day, a film in which Will Smith punches an alien. That was the entire plot synopsis that my wife could remember. It's the one where he punches the alien, right? I'm like, yeep, I think that's it. And then it came up and I'm like there This that we did it. Let me introduce my panelists who are just aghast that this whole thing is happening. Tony Cindelar is here, hello. We are canceling the apocalypse. Wait, wrong Gusic speech. happappy to be here Hello nerds David J Lore is also here Hello I mean, it's got a designated Atherton. It's got Jeff Goldblum being cool It's got a power book, and it's got a bunch of recycled plot points from other better movies Hm Yeah Alen Simps is also here, Hello I'm just glad that SETI exists so that they had advanced warning of all of this. And Boa Chu Yeon also joins us. He insisted on being here I I can record. I'm podcaster Oh yes, the immmortal Randy Quaid, we've tried to kill him, but he just won't die. He just won't die Um Yeah, so independence Day, we talked about this because okay what happens often at the beginning of the year is Misess says, Hey, let's look at what Jason, let's look at what the anniversaries are But like thirty, forty, fifty year old movies that we could talk about And independent class came up and he heard my cries of pain from afar and said, oh yeah, you know It's a big anniversary for the United States and it's the big anniversary of Independence Day And I thought about it and I thought, you know what I haven't seen Independence Day, probably since nineteen ninety six, mostly because I didn't like it Let's just watch it and see what happens. Let's do it Let's give it a try Um And turns out I remember very little about it, but since I've seen everyvery you know science fiction movie ever, I didn't need to remember specifically what was in it because it just does all the things you expect it to do. It's basically laawn Mower Mant too.. Well Well, there's only so many stories to tell, Jason. I wanted to start. I guess this could be my opening statement other than my inspirational speech there by saying, hereere's a thing that I I found impressive about Independence Day Every major role is filled by a somewhat notable Turn around like the casting in this movie is bananas. Like, hey, we we need a scientist. How about Brent Speiner? Hey, we need we need a friend for Jeff Goldblum How about Harvey Fiirestein? Why not? Why not have it be Harvey Hey, we do need a sinister kind of defense secretary. Well There's nobody more sinister. Hey, it's that guy than James Rebhorn There There's your designated aath. Can I need and I need, I desperately need a gritty inspirational Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff. Who better than Robert Loosjia for that role. And it just goes on. What if there was an estranged wife of Jeff Goldblum? Why not have it be Margaret Collin? I'll sign up for that. Mary McDonald is the first lady. L just and then of course, Will Smith and Bill Pullman and Jeff Goldblum And Jud Hirch, why not Jud Hirch? You need we need somebody to play everybody's Jewish grandpa. Jud Hirsch is the guy What's his direction? Jud, you're everybody's Jewish grandpa. Done, we did it all there. of aming Bill Mitrovich is a that guy Army general Yeahy. Adam Baldwin is a la' an army guy who's just like letting people in the front gate. It's like, okay. he's in tune Adam Baldwin, you know, it's not that I forgot that he was in it, but when he shows up anyime that I have seen it, he shows up and I go, Oh yeah Yeah good. Hes here Well I mean I'm sure there' needs to be shot in the head. It's just, you know, and actually the one the one that made me laugh the most is Hey, we need Will Smith to have a pal who then is tragically killed in the first aerial battle scene. Why not have it be Haric Harry Conick Junior. What? Sure. Okay Yeah he does Tamu Roooster played by Harry Conic junior. It so weird. It's like so anyway, credit to the casting because the casting is is that that is the true story of the budget of this movie. I think even more than the special effects is the casting. It's like wek, they didn't they they just got everybody. They're like, yeah, I want every part to be played by somebody you've seen Well, I mean, this is it is basically an update of the seventies disaster film. And that was the whole point of all those, right? Yeah It was just superstars in danger And And so this is the nineteen eighty six version of that and it's You know, it does what it says on the box. It does. It is My son came up with this great Freeze for, you know, because there are things that are good, there are things that are bad, there things that are fine And and then there are things that that he considers Exactly fine act This is a movie that is the definition of exactly on a rating scale that goes positively negative, it would hit at zero is what you're saying. Yes. ye ye. We Justin and I watch this every fourth of July, like every year we watch it because We're like, what are we going to do? We don't want to try to find anywhere to go because it's the fourth of July, and we don't want to get stuck in traffic close to sunset. So what are we going to do? We're going to watch Independence Day and we're going to scroll on our phones and it'll be fine. And we do that every Yeah ye. Like is it is it bad? No. Is it good? No, it's exactly fine. It is I mean It's a movie. In fact, is a movie. One of my arguments might be and you can all you can all say whether you agree or disagree or whatever. as we go through it, I'll just say One of my arguments about this movie is it is the most movie and more than that, the most American Bockbuster action vehicle movie. you could have Is it the best? No, is it the worst? No, Is it the most? Yeah, I think maybe it is the most Iry That ex me The origin of the movie involving Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerick on a beach in Mexico kind of hashing out an outline spare parts do we put together to make a big thing for twentieth century Fox to take up against the Pinned for August Mars attacks. that is a big alien invasion movie. It does feel like They had the idea for the poster and worked backward from that. that you know, and they even launch. They've acknowledged as much did their work. Yeah, they they went here here is here's the end result that we want to try to pull off. Yeah. What are the ingredients Okay, we need we need a plucky little kid. We're going to save a dog at some point. A lot of people are going to die. The president's wife is going to get and that's six nineteen six Yeah. It is it just I okay, so when I saw this movie in nineteen ninety six, I was offended by how stupid it was Oh, whoa. And Jason how Jason Snow was offended How to lose. How smart how smart and fancy were you back then? Above zero on David's son scale. Yeah. Okay. J above zero. I was just like no, it's just not and I had seen so Stargate made by the same crew, the Stargate movie. Also I came away from that one thinking This movie is kind of dumb. L they like blowing things up And it's not terrible, but you could tell that these people are not that bright. They're just not that bright. They're not coming up with clever ideas. They're just coming up with the Bog standard idea and Independence Day. So this is what I'm going to say. this is going to be the big turn, everybody. This is going to be the big turn. This time instead of saying, what the dog, you save time for the dog to to save itself. Now I look at that same scene and I'm like Of course the dog says So I'm much I much generous to this movie now because now I know how dumb it is. And I'm like, yeah, of course this is a big dumb action movie. I get it It's it does what it says on the label, which is not try very hard and blow a lot of stuff up loudly. And you know, they got a marryer. Yeah U S say U I mean, I guess I'm susceptible to this. I was a teenager when this movie came out And there is something that I look back on the The nineties kind of The specific nineties summer blockbusters that had the spectracle element of them and it was a time before we had, you know veryery limited CGI. It was a time before every movie was based on a comic book peopleeople didn't even know what comic books were in nineteen ninety six. didn't no idea they were unknown Hollywood didn't certain. Hollywood. Yeah. sorry, David, peopleeople that mattered. Thank you. Thank you. And you know this movie worked on me as a teenager. and so it was a movie that had a gigantic marketing campaign behind it. And I think at the time people were very excited about it Now Was this part of basically an epidemic of everybody trying to makeake the next Jurassic Park and failing Also, yes. Yeah is this is not Jurassic Park Inlusive of Jeff Goldblum saying Mus go faster M go faster, go, go, go go go J just like he did in Jurassic Park. Yes. Je Jeff Goldblum playing a legally distinct different character the last movie you remember him from because he's married. Yeah, he's married This is I think an interesting place in Wilsmith's trajectory where the writing for his character is not any good But the movie he's surrounded by isn't garbage yet. So it's like, you know, it's on the parabola. It's before Med and Black, but well before Wild Wild West. And I think that's that's got nice It is in some ways, it's an unfortunate template for a lot of Will Smith movies, which is we don't actually need to write a character for Will Smith because he's got a lot of charisma and that's charming. And it does he can for a really dumb script that doesn't give him anything to do that isn't just kind of dumb. Nhing. He has this charisma that charess thank goodness there's that. Imagine if that was like some sort of human blank playing that part. It would have been complete death. But instead they got a guuess what? Charismatic guy helps a movie be better. Yeah. Okay, but where is my Will Smith wrap Where's my Will Smith r? Well he was before they could do that. perfected the scient. it was the one. One year later, Een Sims. This is what gave him the juice to have that thing on the soundtrack, which represented yet another giant pile of money. Yeahact exactly, which is key. I want to put this in a little historical context. Now the United States declared no, nope, that's not the historical context I'm going to do. Jo touched on it. Jurassic Park was a big hit. And then there is that there is so there's let's do action ten polls, which had been happening forever, but I think Jurassic Park helped get everybody back on board to fund this. What happened though is also this movie did so well that it generated this avalanche of terrible summer action disaster tent pollls. This is where we get your your your Armageddons, your deeps impact your Dul after Dante' peaks and it would be deep impacts, but okay No, it's deep's impact, Bois says. No you're Latin. That's right. That's right. Roland L Emmerick's filmography. I did not realize how many of his movies I've seen. I've seen a lot of them And honestly, at this point, this is on me. I should recognize it as a certain signifier. This is this is his best movie byy like a standation you, the success of this movie allows nineteen ninety eight's Godzilla movie to exist, which I think is still technically a war crime Yeah and some the Hague is still prosecuting that one. I saw the day after tomorrow That's I can't go to the Netherlands. We just can't To Toho made fun of that one by by by putting US Godzilla in Godzilla Final Wars in two thousand five. I saw twenty twelve Theaters I saw Moonfall, not in theaters, but I, you know of my own free willall We watched twenty twelve the other day. I actually Moonfall has a special place to my heart because it is One of the stupidest movies I've ever. It is it is delightfully Tony, it's just what what if the core, but the moon Yeah, hey, Jason, and that's how they got me. That's how they got me. Moonfall features a conspiracy theorist character toilet was that was able to run because Randy Quid's cropbuster from nineteen ninety six wt U so I'm sorry, Rlla Emerick, you keep making the same movie over. Don't be sorry, you're giving him money. And Tony. And worse Yeah Yeah Yeah, and worse and worse. And Dan Dvilin, I gott to say Dean Devin Um You know, he was one of the Pacific tech students in real genius back when he was an actor. And he said, Well, this acting isn't for me. I'm going to instead write Dumbs screen plays with a German guy. Okay, greatreat, greatreat. goodood job, Dean Devlin. Hey, he's laughing all the way to the bank because these mers made a lot of money. Um Anyway, if you would be interested in his directorial just debut Geostorm, which is very badorm. I did I did not this is like finding out That it's all connected that all the bad things in my life were engineered by the same guys Th guys do That's what they did. All the bad things. I feel like Tony Tony is talking us the direction of Emmeric Okoberfest. You know, no Oh yes. That's I'd like to introduce Tony's new podcast, which is a walk through all the films of Roand and M Din Why people keep making things where I have to suffer? I don't understand surgery Yeah. What is it about me that people are like, that guy's not in enough pain? You you go these movies, Tony. That's why. That's why love you do it to yourself like you do. It all started with the core Oh so Independence Day. begins with a big flying saucer or a giant flying saucer casting shadows on the moon As it enters the orbit of Earth it releases a bunch of little flying saucers from its big flying saucer. self. I was reminded at this point that Oh yeah, Russell T Davis cribbed almost every special effects shot in this movie for a doctor who at some point That made me laugh. It's like Dalllex flying saucers, the satellite running into a bigger spaceship when it's trying to orbit. Like it's all there. He just's like, Hey, that's an independence dayay. Let's do that. It is they are going to come and hover over big cities and nobody knows why, but it could be fine. It could be fine main your most photogenic cities. And well yeah, they're going to start with the real real good ones. you're later later they N Houston Yes. Well, they're going on they're on ono the lower tiers at that point. they've already destroyed the major destinations and they're moving onward Meanwhile, because the flying saucers have appeared and people are surprised, there's a lot of kind of first contact surprise going on. There's the we see the satellites or satellite dishes and radio telescopes at the very larggeer rray and they talk about SETI and it reminds me of contact, which is Vastly better movie than this, butas, we did not watch contact. We watched Independence Day. movie contact. You know what happens? You won you'll be surprised to know Jodody Foster does not punch an alien in contact. So there nerds. I hope you're happy. Would' have been better though. How else do you welcome somebody to EarF? So Will Smith has to get has to get called back Wsmith is not in this movie until twenty five minutes in. Jason. What are you doing? It's true. Well, I mean, it's all these things happen. Wilsmith has to get called back to fly two and a half hour movie that feels like it's ninety minutes. Yeah, is I mean, that's in its credit, actually, too its credit, it moves Randy Quade who's like a a drunk crop duster, Vietnam veteran. He has been saying that aliens have been abducting him for years, but now he's like, see, I told you. And yeah, and Jeff Goldblum who is still wearing his wedding ring, even though he's separated from in one of the many coincidences in this movie that make it the tapestry that it is, from his estranged wife or ex wife is Margaret Collen, who is the what? I don't know what she is chief of staff. I think I thought she was like head of commommunication. Press seecretarary for the president In my head' She's Toby Zieigler. my seecreary of girl boss I think Chief of Staff fits. Yeah. somethingomet somethingomet like that. She's she's she works. the movie doesn't care. Yeah let's just say the as with so many things, the movie doesn't care. the but so so he he figures out that there's a signal within the satellite transmissions and he's like and it's getting shorter and he's decided that it's a countdown and the reason that they're all hovering there is they're waiting for the moment where they're going to strike and they're going to blow up everything. And he tries to call his wife, but she hangs up on him. So he gets his dad who is played by Jud Hirsch again Everybody's Jewish grandpa who they're playing chess at the beginning of the movie and Jud Hirsch gets to use some yiddish and he's got a cigar and he gets to complain a lot. and it's just it is he's playing everybody's Jewish grandpa. That's just it. Heches. Hees. He does. It was funny because every time I would look over at Lauren and say it's basically your grandpa and she says, ye, yep That's it. That's. And don't forget Jeff Goldlum's character because this is the only time where you will really be established as having a character that is distinct from Jeff Goldlum is a wacky guy who's really into c Reycycling Yep. Yeah. What a what a nerd. What a weird What a gets his guy at it That's he feels that that his dad smoking cigars is unhealthy. That is a setup. What a weird And that he does he likes to recycle because he wants to save the planet also a setup for a joke that isn't funny that happens later in the movie and I'll just reveal it now. He says, seeee, I did save the planet. Yeah. okay, great. So he they they drive to DC because time is of the essence, but they drive to DC. And he calls her again and basically because he he traces her radio sign then He trac where she is. whatever.'s standing outside the front. She's on the phone so he can triangulate where she is in the White House. Be he's a radio genius I kind of assume that he was misusing something he has access to because of his like telecom job. be I was my inter You are not supposed to be using your administrator access But he he finally he does get let in. This is Th these are kind of classic alien invasion. likeike you get the you get the, oh my God, the aliens are here. The world is going to be changed forever. What does this mean kind of thing? And then he's the gu who' like wait, wait wait, I know a secret. And then and then you get the other moment, which is they're going to attack us. We must evacuate And they finally do Ben Pullman or Ben Pullman Bill Pullman, who is the president of the United States with his he's got a cool leather jacket later. He says, OK, we will evacuate. And they get to Air Force One and barely make it out before the stuff that happens in the trailer and the movie posters is the reason they wrote the screenplay happen, which is they blow up the White House up the Empire State builduilding, They blow up some building in LA. but it doesn't matter because the blow upp like then spreads out and makes like a whole like circle of destruction in each of these cities People can try to run away from it but it won't work. One of the things about this movie is that I think specifically Gold Bloom's character does over and over and over again is he just makes these leaps in logic Yeah. And he's just really lucky that it turns out to be he's correct because like what if they did in fact come in peace? What if it was a countdown to To the reading I dont know cupcakes and balloons like it was funy. To the ball being dropped He is also present in several rooms and several meetings that like he should not be allowed. I mean, like they he gets to be on the first helicopter leaving the White House whereas the second helicopter does not make it and and people die because this guy got. But he has to survive because he is the thing that allows the screenplay To keep moving. Yeah because he has to he has to move the plot forward and explain what's going on in a way that you will buy long enough. We have like an or more movie before he gets to hang out with Will Smith. So he's got a trh Plus he has to, I mean, he literally, everything happens because of him Like he is the driver of the plot. You need somebody who can explain how this is all going to work and it is Jeff Goldblumom and to his credit. Okay. He is Jeff Goldbloming. He is he is doing what we now know especially to just be his bit. It is it is he's doing his thing. But I'm going to say it, he's great at it and that's what he is really good And his dialogue is actually pretty funny. And how much of that is the dialogue being good and how much of it is his weird delivery that he puts on every line he reads, But it's great He is he is the saving grace of this film. I mean, much as I love Margaret Coin and you know I love Margaret Coin. Yes, we know, but but J probles line readings. Yeah in this are amazing. And and I mean, to this day. I haven't seen this film in thirty years. I snickkered at it in the movie theater. And yet Yes, yes, Yes, without the oops. Yeah without the oops. I I've said that continuously for thirty years. Yeah. No, it's such a great line reading. It's very good. So they get they get on and there on on They're going to Air Force one, but the president's wife was in L.A And so we're worried about her That's the Mary McDonnell, you may know he as the president of of B Galactica, but here she's the first lady. And in one of the other enormous coincidences in this movie, she will end up connecting with Will Smith's girlfriend Um because There aren't that many people in L.A. well, I mean not anymore. like I like when she pulls the truck over to be like, let's check the wreckage of this helicopter. And it's like, there is wreckage everywhere around you. But wreckage is real important. This was people might have crashed. hold on. some fancy wreckage here Um, So and then this is also when the LA is hit. This is when the dog is still in the car. it's like, oh, no, they're going to kill the dog. And there's that whole website that's like, does the dog die? Friends, the dog doesn't die because the dog leaps out of the car and leaps just in time into the service tunnel to not be set on fire like all the people. Thank goodness, the dog survived. all the Th those people are dead, but the dog, family dog made it out Good job, Donk Dog survives. It's important. Movie needs to know there be a bummer to kill the dog, so instead heroically, the dog saves itself. I guess she calls it, but it doesn't matter. I mean the dog is doing all the work there. They send some U they snd some planes up against the the flying saucers, but they're revealed to have a Star Trek style energy shield around it. so it doesn't work. And then the planes are all kind of blown away by little fighters from the aliens. This is when Harry Conic Jr. bites it, but Will Smith survives and is u And after a dog fight and and manages to get one of the alien fighters to crash and they crash in the desert Which leads to that scene where he he he's got his parachute and all of that. And then he goes over to the alien kind of wreckage and punches the alien and wraps it in his parachute and drags it along. kicks it again at one point, which I'm thinking like the, you know, hey, man, it's dead. It's okay. But then he gets it to the area fifty one later and they're like, how long has it been unconscious? I'm like unconscious How is that thing still alive? But it is apparently because ye it's got a great exoskeleton deal. It does. I also like that he Like he leaves from LA. And he's they're in a dog fight over LA. and then he's like at the r time Yeah, then they go to the Grand Canyon and then he lands slash crashes walking distance from area fifty one. Yeah. That is like really could be planning on his far. Yeah in in a desert that seems if it seems weirdly white, it's because that's totally the Bonneville Salt flats. It's very obviously the Bonneville Salt fllats, which is like two one is. No No No, it's just a Mhoby not but they did' whatever. Is that what they is that what they want you to think? That's maybe so. Maybe that's it, Tony. It's all part of the conspiracy. I do by the way, I do like the scene where there's the whole like Aliens haa. You've known about it for years since Roswell. and the president's like, h ho, so silly. That's not real. And that's that's when James Redhorne is like actually, sir Yeah That is real. We did get the spaceship and the aliens from Roswell and they are in area fifty one and we just don't ever tell the president or the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff. We leave that to ourselves I do kind of like it's a funny moment, right? because it's every president is like,ah, I check the records and there's no aliens and and then this this movie does that and then And then they're like actually, there are. we just don't tell you as you would say. It' It didn't seem relevant until right now. Yeah. That was a funny An another funny bit is like couldn't you have mentioned this three days ago when the flying saucer showed up? and it was like, well U awkward, Akward. By the way, yes, the head scientists when we get to area fifty one A again, Brent Speiner and there is that moment where they're like, oh, I see I see why you keep these guys locked up. don Yeahck because they're creepy weirdos. And you see why Brent Spyer was attracted to the role because he got to have fun. Yeah sure and the money Um anyway also the money Um and to act with this incredible cast of characters. Okay. So the US the UFO thing has been happening. They go to area fifty one. We meet the scientists. There are three dead aliens that they've got sort of suspended in liiquid plus they have a an alien spaceship Um the the live alien It looks like they're dissecting them, which reminds me, there's a line referencing the X files in here this is around the time that they did like the alien autopsy and so they do this thing that's kind of like an alien autopsy except they're not actually cutting into the alien. They're cutting into its Its armor or whatever it has because it stays alive and then it has a telepathic freak out and it freaks out Prince Spiner and it freaks out the president. He gets like a really bad headache, which leads to again, a line that actually kind of appreciated, which is is this glass bulletproof? And they say no. He says, well, then, you know what to do when they shoot the alien until it's dead I mean, I like I like Prince Meiner because he's data. But I do appreciate that like his character has some of the dialogue and the rare bits of dialogue in this movie that don't feel like they're just placeholders for somebody else to rewrite. Like this is this is a weirdo superer that is kind of kind of feels like it's from another movie and Brent Speyer is playing him as just like, you know, this Over the top disheveled. very maladjusted scientist that does not know how to talk to anybody, let alone the president of the United States. And I like that. This is in a movie that is awash with characters that are not very memorable or interesting, Brent Smyder is not holding back. They apparently named and based him off of a friend of theirs whose name was there you Based on a story. Yeah. That's's the trick is based for a real person.'s because your characters you created from scratch are thin. There's there's a bit of this where like it's it's fun and which we keep touching on. It's fun and great. If you don't think about it for too long oriously. keep it moving as long as it keepsense itakes sense. Yeah. And the thing that always cracked me up about his character R This is a film filled with Benjamin Stephven David Brackish. H name is Brackish Oen What a Why? It the German director. I blame the German director Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. It's it's it's yeah, it's good. It is quirky. And again, I have to ask myself Is it didid Brent Speiner weird it up? Did he say, can I play with this and make it weirder? Because again, I have to wonder Some of it, I have to wonder I am positive he did. right L Well like sure. I mean, we didn't we had no idea how to write a mad scientist, but this guy, he totally gets it. Let's use those takes because it is. yeah, it is very weird Roland, let me do the hair. So much hair. And we need a distinct weirdo from the Jeff Goldlum, right? Like this is this is a this is a movie with two weirdos and they need to be different very different different flavors of weirdo. they cannot be, you know not to step on the theoretical future episode about Horrible horrible sequel No But you think you think he dies, but part of the curse of making a sequel to a movie like this works because you don't have to think about it too much is that when you make a sequel, then you have to worry about lore and continuity and okay. how they do the classic. They do the classic thing, which is, oh, we never said he died. Turns out he didn't They they flush they flush they flush it out. Somebody checks his pulse and he doesn't say anything. So we don't know what that means. must be alive. It's fine. Well he doesn't say he's dead. He doesn't say he's alive. He'ss Srodinger is brackish Of all the things to hang on to, the telepathic link with the aliens that he and the president had They go, you know what, rule of Threes, we need one more guy. And so they create an African dictator character who also communes with the alien intelligence. Awesome. And that's how they learn' lear this is everything I'm learning about's real is it I will? Nope. I did not have this information. It's a real movie. I deny It exists more than the Star Wars prequels. I deny everything about it They try to nuke a saucer over Houston they blow up Houston, but the saucer is fine. I like kind of kind of a bad choice based on everything they know so far. Yeah, But they' like, well the nuke nuke will super take care of it, right? And the missile didn't work at all. The bad choice, Tony is that when everything is obscured, but they know that they've blown up a nuclear bomb. they all start cheering like yeah, we did And I mean it's like it's like what if what if you only really badly damaged it? Like, you know what if it's going to take a couple and You know, like yeah, but they also still also also you you still you know you blew up Houston like Yeah, Yeah, like there are people in that room who have been dying to hit the nuclearar button J just to nuke anything they just wanted to be one of the ones actually nuke something Also my head cananon is like a large part of the government and the command structure is is gone at this point. So they're not they're not they're not bringing their a game. No No that that's actually one of the things I like about this movie is they they they lean into the fact that like they don't have pilots, they can't communicate. They have to send out like like shortwave morse code to everybody to get them to work. It's like that's, Yeahah, that's good. Like you're showing that you're really up against it here and you don't have your command and control facility that you might otherwise because it's all been blown up. don't mind U This is about when Um Viva A Fox and her kid and the dog And the first lady a bunch of people with her too. She's got a whole truck I like that Yeah She's like Iland M that's the truck of Misfit I'm going to say something else nice about this movie, which is I actually kind of like all the stuff they shot in the desert. I love that scene where Will Smith sees all the all the motorhomes coming across the Bonneville Salt fllats and he's like waving while dragging an alien. I like I like seeing people It's a little, I mean, again, it's a little fury roadish in a way that makes me sad because this is not that movie, but and that is a much better movie than this. But I do, I like it. I visually I think that especially the scene with Will Smith looking at all of those all those vehicles fleeing across the desert and he's waving them on and there's that moment of like, they're just going to blow right past him or what? are they going to stop? And they all stop for him because he's got an alien in a parachute. likeike's great you know, for a movie that is very much like USA Savior of the world. This is also a movie where like lots of people just like we're in this together. And you know, here's this group of all the people that are in like motorhomes from the outskirts of LA. or we're gonna just drive across the desert together. You know, There are these little scenes where this is a movie where they very full kind of outlook on on humanity. evenven I mean, it's ridiculous, but they're like There's a party on top of the building in L.A of the people who are like excited that there' aliens there. right? Like they this is not a I mean, you could have imagined a movie that had extended scenes of like And there's a little bit of hints of it in New York of like people like looting and rioting and things like that. this is not that kind of. And there's also in A newscast or something, they're like, stop shooting at the aliens shhips. like yeah You know, So like I think some of that is going on in the background that we just don't That's not the focus of this m. Yeah. I would rather focus on Vivia Fox's coworker from Save by the Belvic College years who decided to go to the rooftop party. The She' so hopeful. Yeah, hopeful. The lesson is Some aliens are bad. So this leads to one of the things that actually frustrates me the most in this movie, even now which is the first lady has come all the way across the desert to Area fifty one. She's reunited with her husband, the president of the United States. And the doctor pulls him out into the hall and says, I'm sorry, sir She's dying of a broken heart. She's got cut of She bleing She's bleeding a lot and there's nothing we can do, which Bleeding a lot Inside, Jason, She's bleeding a lot inside. She looks fine And there's nothing you can do so you're not going to try And you're good doctor. just good doctorors. Yeah good do con. Yeah, The doctors who remembered how to string together sentences like all fires Mr. President, I'd like to say I did my best I'm pretty drunk. just a janitor all the doctors are there. Yeah. I just again, if you're going have like they don't they don't want to make her seem too wounded. so she's just kind of sleepy. and why I want to kill her, which I also don't really understand. I they say she's got the really bad bleeding that can't be stopped by anyone, which like well, there's this perfectly good refrigerator over here. They I mean it would go to waste Well also maybe the same condition is temporarily happening to Jeff Boldan's character's ex wife because you're not gonna to see her for like another hour. so This is a movie that does not have time for women in the second half. Sorry. I mean, who does? That's true. Unless some of those aliens are women. I mean, look, if we would just put some money into researching fatal off screen women disease, then I think some lives could be saved Basically in the last third of the movie, they exist to show up and hug the heroes at the end. I just and the so it's curious that they kill her for like But with without even trying to make it a good reason she dies. Js like, no, no, she has to. It's like it's like Roland Emmeric appeared in front of you and said Hey, no one died in the last's a rap That's a rap on Mary Yeah So she's got to go. So we're just she died here. We've got to kill now so that her husband can fly a plane go. Yeah. So not not great. The other part though that there's the fallout of this is that like toward the end of the movie when they spoiler alert for people who have not seen the movie and don't know exactly what's going to happen, they do win at the end And there's like, there's some moments of joy between the president and his kid. it's like it's like he's forgotten Yeah. his wife and and his mom just died like Like an hour hours ago. Yeah, like and the movie' like no, forget about it. Forget it. It doesn't matter. It was bleeding. Okaykay. She bled too much. Too much blood. we couldn't put it back in. It's just there is there is the nice. I mean, I feel like there's the nice moment where And we're jumping to the end wherere you know, the crop duster. has to sacrifice himself to take down the thing and there's the room where everyone is celebrating except his son who Yes and you know, and that's like a nice, you know We've won, but also this one person is right but I'm proud of my dad Yeah, but he is clearly, you know, not having it not a great victory for. right R And But but the movie is like, but we only have time for one of those types One sad person. M, many, many other people. They can't be our hero than president of the United States. He's got to be pumped Yeah. evenven though, you know, yeah, they so so anyway, I don't think they should have killed her. That's kind of dumb and it doesn't help movie in Anyway, okay So Jud Hirsch says something kind of random to Jeff Goldblumom. Remember them? They're also in this movie. And Jeff Goldbloum, although not important to the plot for a while, has been like muttering funny things in the background, which is his role, a lot of this movie. And he's like, hey I have an idea. I got this power book here because Apple spent a lot of money to insert the power book five thousand three hundred, the one that burst into flames accidentally and they had to replace a bunch of the batteries and stuff. Anyway, that's a great Trojan horse weapon to send we send this the aliens they'll burst into flames. So he's like, I have an idea. And this is the thing that I think this movie is famous for And is is the single dumbest thing in the entire movie? I was I was I was I was as I was re watchatching this, I was like, where on Jason Sell's scale Is this going to fit as it's a thing It's this the scale like the it dottles out like you don't have it's like I am going take a power book snells scale. Yeah. I'm going to take a a power book to an alien spaceship and use wirelessly connect to them and but maybe because you had to go all the way there with the spaceship. computer virus That is hower is mainly something that you built in a web browser. possibly. I mean I I will say Well, you know It's a dumb It is a rf on W of the worldor It is a rof on War of the worldor. Sure. like they probably went, Hey, that's cute. Let's do that because they they chose the simplest thing in every step. Here is the brief grace I will give to this incredibly stupid thing whichich is and it could have been solved by a little bit of dialogue which is they've had The spaceship since Roswell. And it's been active for the last few days too Yeah. You could had Brint Spiner or a Brnt Spiner Funky say Oh, we've made some progress in connecting to the computer on board and it's not that different than what we have And Jeff Cobum's gone for a while because he could be like, I was working on the computer on that thing down there and I think that I can I think that I can hack it. I think it's possible. but instead he's like, there's none of that. It's just like, hey, I've got this thing that I got on a floppy disk at the computer lab and they infected my computer and now I'm gonna infect it because a MAac virus will do it. And o oh, and I can also text the air traffic controllers and put a skull on their computers. Yeah Yeah, you don't, you think he made that gif by hand of with the little animation that was he even spend hours perfecting that. It was the nineties Tony. It was a gif back then. Oh, I'm sorry. Let me ask another question about the nineties for my older friends Did you have to say explain that because I never had to explain to someone that it was like giving the computer a cold. We're going to use a computer virus. I think they were hanging I feel like they're hanging a lantern a computer W the worlds there. Okay. I feel like people knew what a computer virus was and maybe not. but it it's certainly hanging a lantern on on the W of the worldlds Thank so w, he's going to do that be be before we go away from that to U you know, I am not the tech writer here, but I remember in nineteen ninety six going you know, you've had this ship for forty something years And this guy just walks in it goes No, you've been working on it for forty something years. That's just smart. I remember all the movies in nineteen ninety six. I got so pissed at all the writing because it was little s like that No and it is yes, in this this time watching it, I'm like, okay. I can on the one hand, I'm like they you could explain it a away and say, well, they did have it all this time and all that. but you could but even then it's like, you could Mention that in your movie and then all the people like me, but that's okay. They made a lot of money. It doesn'tatter. It's just stupid. It's incredibly stupid.. So the Gold really computer virus gets uploaded but they can't do it from here for some reason. They have to go there and they upload it using the power book. They also have a nuclear weapon and it will lower all the shields. They know that it will lower. Jeff Goldbum is sure it will lower all of the shields on every single spaceship period of time that he guesses is minutes, which again, no explanation to how he knows any of this. It's just a thing that he's assumed And they do, they bring a nuclear weapon with them so that they could they can blow up the mothership as well, which would really be the coup de Gras because then the other spaceships are lost without their mothership Honestly Did they need a computer virus if you have a nuclear weapon That's a quest I also love the the You know, it's like Will Smith is like, Ohh yeah, I've seen how it can move. I can totally drive it or fly it. And I'm like, yeah, I've seen how a seven hundred and forty seven moves. I can totally fly that. No problem. Yeah' a fighter pilot and I do think they believe they can fly anything.. They are also very generous with handing out fighter planes at the end. Yeah it's like, Oh, I flown a crop duster. presumably I can navigate a fighter jet and it's like But sir he's drunk. Well, he's not that drunk. Get him some coffee literally. they're like get him a lot of coffee and keep it coming They're just handing out the keys to those things left and right.. Maybe Quid was in Nom. He may have flown something before he was a fighter pilot in NOM, I think is the implication there. beforefore heisters. To quote this movie, this plowed the field so that Armageddon could send oil drillers to space because there's nobody more qualified to operate high end equipment What you got to remember is that astronauts and I'm going to say here for something a couple minute that workork. Astronauts are really stupid. They can't just learn things. These are not educated people. They sounds like' We call that have around. You want an astronaut to figure something out real fast and problem solve, not their.ing worse than an astronaut in terms of how stupid they are is that they were also cowards A lot of the Yeahesardly astronaut wouldn't shoot a gun Not in space. I mean, I saw Apollo thirteen. I'm impressed that they sent janitors up there and they figured it out. They figured it out. Yeah Armageddon I just want to mention Michel Michael Bay we're talking about a lot of movies that are not independent. states. It's okay. It's a sign that this is a really good movie. Armageddo. Michel Michael Bay looked at independency and he said Too smart, Too smart. Yeah. ye. Why so much talking? I've never actually seen Armageddon. so You know what? feel like they blew enough money? How could we blow more more money? Yeah. Murder words. So I mean I like the rock, but every other Michael Bay movie, which I believe it came out the same year as Independence Day, every other Michael Bay movie like urts me see, now you're doing me, you're talking hurts me in a way that a Rll Emory movie doesn't hurt You're doing it now They send Morse code to everybody saying we're going to attack and here's the time and we're all going to do when the shields go down. And this is where they get the volunteers including the crop duster, get them a lot of coffee. Will Smith marries his girlfriend here with Jeff Goldblum and Margaret Collen present reminding them that they were or are or should be still married Um And and then then they're off. there is a funny moment where he's like I could totally fly this and the and he flies it into the wall and and that's the, you know H Yeah, No more with a wp. Ites withithout the os. Yeah, this time, but but then he's like, oh, it's and he takes the I like he's got like a post it note telling him what the directions are and it's it's a wife flip basically. So he just turns it upside down. I'm like Okay, but again, like at this point, I'm like, sure. Okay, he can fly it. whyy not? And Jeff Goldblum is actually to take back a step, one of the other very actually funny things I like is earlier when they're in the lab with the aliens and the spaceship They say, how would we even fly it? How do we even know it still works? And they say, well, release the clamps. and they release the clamps and it just floats. I think that's really cool. I thought that was a really clever moment because it's like It's only sitting here because we're holding ono it. It just floats. okay? It's a magic spaceship They're like, all right, okay, then then he can fly this. and Jeff Goldman's very worried and Wilsmith like, I can fly this thing out of the atmosphere and all the way to space. It's going to be great. And so they do and they get there's a there's another nice moment where the auto you know, docking or whatever kicks in and the stick starts moving on its own. and Jeff Goldbman was like, no, no, no, I figu this would happen. which Will Smith is like you could have told me earlier because I'm freaking out here man. But they they get pulled inside the Death star. I mean, inside the The big giant flying saucer And and there's a there's some funny bits where like the the shielding opens up and they have to hide And then and then later there's like an air traffic control alien do his job. And then later when they realize they're gonna get boarded, they just show up in the window and they're like, hello to the alien. I think that's also pretty funny. funny I was I think that was intentional. Yeah, but they're timing it. off course waiting to set off the bomb. Yeah I did I felt like there's a thing in here that I get confused by And I don't think that it's my mental limitations, but that the movie maybe doesn't know what it's doing where they're like they're docked and so they can't go anywhere. the clamps. And got the clamps again. So they're clamped in, which, you know, seems like maybe they could have thought about that So something goes wrong with their plan But also they dropp the missile. and the nuke is not just a box, but it it's a whole missile that gets fired into the ship. because there was a thing earlier, they're like, oh, we're going to be long gone by the time the nuke goes off. And I was like Do that Does that make any sense? I think it's ale that you fired. I think they thought that the The virus would allow them to just turnurntail and run, but they were clamp. And then on their way out, they would fire the nuclear missile and h tail it out and it would blow it all up from the inside I thought theyd fire in I mean Ia like because there's no introduced tension that was like not entirely.' it's a mess.as this you were gonna say something Yeah, the space traffic control alien, one of my favorite no dialogue characters in the movie Um because this time watching it, you know, I've seen it a million times, as Allene said, I I could probably recite it for memory. I've seen it enough Um But my mind was able to stray and think What is what is that guys like? What what what led what led to being the space traffic control panel operator on the mothotherership. The mothership, That's a big deal, right? Surely We've seen their mom is h you to this. Big hierarchy to society and he's way up. his mom is proud. hisis friends are deeply unimpressed because he just has a not terribly exciting job Yeah by the p. But how like how boring has it got to be and and how does his mind stray when nothing's going on and they're just, you know, waiting for a big planet wide countdown to happen and the invasionary force to do their things so that You know, he can, you know, check off some checklists and make sure the clamps are functioning and tos cl There's a couple of aliens wave at you and you're like, well, this is the most interesting day I've had in a while and then you're blown up Yeah turns out there was a two look this is a scene where one of is it the same is it the same alien like gets to look at the nuke before it goes off? and it was like, Well, that seems that's rude.. I mean, he's he's just doing a job. Yeah It happens just following orders. It happens. Um So the shields are down and so they're able to attack. There's the, you know, the president is flying a plane now because he used to be a fighter pilot and he's got to do it and all of that and they make sure that it'll go through and they fire it off, But then the saucer opens its little thing on the bottom that we've seen blow up all the things and it's going to blow up arerea fifty one and everybody in it Now that little like extrusion out of its Underside. And that leads to only one ex his exhaust port. Y,solly. You could say an exhaust port if you wanted to. I think Randy Quay thinks of it more in biological. Is there a way we could make a Dathar trench run? It just visually really kind of boring. Is there a way we can do that? Wh you got the flat sand dollar underside Yeah then like what do we do get our trench run? Wow with no trench How would that work? So but Randy Qit's got one missile. So this is his moment to be a hero, but of course, the clamps more clamps causing trouble. the clamp holds on to his missiles clamp fiready So he realizes hes got he's got to fly right up inside it, which he then says his thing up because he said that they've probing him. the aliens have been probing him all over the years. So he's like, this is his revenge against them and that is how he bls. I think I think the implication he season only and he's been first of all, I don't think he ever used the word probe I think he says kidnap. and the other everybody assumes he's been probed. Yeah, everyone makes fun of him but by saying he's been probed. Yes. I think the the implication for this poor guy is he thinks he was only kidnapped once. Now We now know that aliens are real in this world right there is area fifty one Was he actually kidnapped by aliens Does he just have a drinking problem I don't wait to tell you There's no way like many great works of fiction it is open to Tony What we have to do when we explicate this movie and the screenplay, we have to look at a few things, which first we have to ask ourselves, is there evidence that he's an alcoholic? Yes.. Is there evidence that there are aliens? Yes. So there's no way to which is true And that's part of I think that's what part of what Devlin and Emmeric are going for here is this this kind of state of grace where you really can't detect which one Randy Quid is and it doesn't matter because he blows himself up. Yeah this is another one of those plot points where like lowering the shields. That's just an early plot point in Wrath of Khan. And then this is just Slim Pickinens at the end of Dr. Strange Love just blowing himself up Got got to use all the parts of the buuffalo Yeah Yeah, I do think I'm back boys is not It's not that's not like great dying words. No Rand' character. No. He was't he wasn't a deep thinker though. No no. in the original way that they planned for it to end. he was supposed to come flying in in his crop duster That's terrible. I didn't not that they tow his his RV was towing the crop dust Yeah. And I was like, why would you do leeave that behind. That's aecting your mileage The world is ending I need to fly away Yeah You might need to fly a crop duster into a highly advanced alien craft a crop duster with a nuclear weapon on board I mean, if I've had if I had a dime every time I've seen that in No kidding. Just like a bungee corded on. Yeah. Yeah. why not place that would be original and interesting. So they they defeat the bad guys hoay Um, And there is a o, and but before they go, there's that rousing speech that we talked about where He gives a big speech about how this is going to be independence dayay for everybody because we're declaring independence over bad aliens And I have I have in my notes, you know, he says, Perhaps it is fate that it's the fourth of July. And I went, No, it's hack writing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We backed it off a couple of days before that we could That be the fourth of July. So so the world defeats the aliens on the spaceship, they they fire the nuclear missile and they get declamped so they can run away really fast while it blows up and they just escape it they in fact they get they get consonsumed in the shockwave slightly at the outer edges of the shockwave. Are they alive or did they die? Well Of course they're the kids to find out to look at their charred bodies. Yeah. Let's go out on the s. They walk out out of the sep flats and everybody punches the air. and you I started whistling the Bckery Bonzai. I was gonna say the president says I love this town and the ghostbuster's music swells I was concerned as they were escaping, I was like, they look like every other UFO dealy and there's like thousands of them all across the planet. How do they not get shot down? The movie does not care. This movie has no time for questions of that They're fine And like literally the music swells and everybody is happy, including the people who just lost their wife and mother minutes ago. But everybody's happy now because we beat the aliens and things are going to be okay. And that is Independence Day, believe it or not That is the whole thing movie. Yeah, I have some questions. whatever youre gonna say I was just gonna sayter than I'm gonna say. No, no, no, it's not. I was just gonna say. L at the end of the movie, they're like driving out to meet these people with their children who may or may not see something that children should not see. Right. And they stop like six miles away so that the women can run to their men and it just Thats me every I a lot of smoking cigars. Yeah. You got to you got to give women something to do. Yeah. I a movie what are they going to do? And finally that that cooky Jeff Goblum He used to be recycling and now he's smoking cigars. good. that flight suit and he's cool now. Yeah. I get used to this. Yeah Yeah, onene of the biggest downsides to this movie being so easy to watch, so enjoyable and fun is that I've found that over time people people would cite it as if it were historical event. Like man. Yeah, you know, I wish I wish people had just come together like Iependence Day and could just, you know, nuke something all at once.. Okay ide So I okay. Without getting into the plot details of the sequel movie, which we don't's which we we're not going to talk about or anybody's fan fiction. What do we think the political career of President Whitmore is like after this? Like, do they have I mean, so much of I mean, do they have elections Does he run again? Do he win in a landslide? Does he say that it's, you know, does he have to sit out because, you know, that would be you know that America needs to move on. What do we think? I think he's a two term president and then because he's a hero of the world, I think he ends up as like The Uh, I don't know. he's like the seecretary genereneral of the United Nations or something. and o and maybe we enter a new brief era of like world peace where people are like, Let's not hurt each other for as isably fers the you know, by like the Israelis and Palestinians hugging each other when they kill the aliens in this movie because that's one of the dumb things that this movie says to happen. Yeah Yeah. Yeah Yeah Alternatively, what if He just resigns as president and becomes a motivational speaker. Well, he's got he's a wid now. take care of a rousing speech If I were going to write a sequel and I was I will say I was in movie that E does. Well, but I was no doesnt It had twenty years. It was twenty years where I could think about it If you I would have thought if but in thirty years his daughter be of age that she's eligible to be president. Andum look like assuming and assuming dughter will look like Micah Monroe instead of M May Whitman. Oh. But if for for the time where you thought, hey, what do they do for a sequel I would have said, you know Plued by this ESP connection with the aliens. What if he's still plagued by that? Well, it's going That's kind of interesting. I think first thing did is it's it's Speaker for the dead basically. It's the enderss game sequel where he's connected to the thing that he's destroyed and that is the only bridge who can lead to a peace between the two peoples. I think that's the pitch And you would say, hey, don't worry about it. Yes, it's shamelessly knocking off something, but this whole movie does that anyway. so it's over. It shamelessly knocked off everything. Yeah. Yeah, it's just yeah, because he's basically Ender at that point. Yeah And like I said, is is it good No, is it bad? No. It's fine. And you know, I love I love these fifties movies that are all the same kind of plot This is just a really big budget version of a bad fifties movie. That's fine. But it's done. Yes I mean, again, I feel more generous about this than I ever have in my life only because I've accepted how stupid it is. And now I can accept into your art. I can I can I can appreciate that it's kind of like hilariously dumb and also I appreciate more that folks, you know, I saw I went to see this movie. I thought maybe it would be a good movie and it was not. But now I nod and I'm like, o, it's actually just following the template off all the movies that came before it and then setting the template for all of the dumb movies that came after it U Yeahah, Yeah. So we got thirty years of studio executives going. Well, look at that outline. Why don't we just do that? Yeah againain and then it's done poorly because it's being it's being, you know picked picked away at by studio executives or in some cases Chinese financiers of overver budgeted sequels to in Pacific Rim and various other things It's a copy of a copy of a copy degrades over time. But But it's I would say it's executed pretty well. I think technically, especially it's executed well. the againg, the screenplay is dumb and it doesn't try anything particularly interesting, But it's well cast. And the special effects are pretty good And it moves. I mean, there I know it's not the biggest endorsement A movie that's two and a half hours long and feels like a ninety minute movie is an endorsement, right? It It did not waste our time. It moves and lots of stuff happens in it. And that is that is a thing I like in my movies is for things to occur in them. and there's so many things occurring in this movie I think okay. anotherother thing that I don't I did not like about this movie then and I still do not like is the way it was marketed. because and people may not know this now in some parts of the internet at least that They decided to market this movie not as indndependence Day But Iy four Iy four four Which It doesn't make any sense and is not a thing. is is it's not There was a dark there was a dark term in marketing that I think lasted a solid twenty years where you could just do anything with a number Yeah peoplee did not care. Yeah. It was Yeah. So the four is from the fourth of July. But I mean, how many people think it could have made a billion dollars if people weren't worried that they hadn't seen ID one through three? But And this from a country where they changed the name of the Madness of George III to the madness of King George because did think people would think it was a sequel. sure They did to Rocky first. They went blood part time. It's It's time to make a sequel to X Men. I know. We'll call it X two, X Men United. Yeah. Yeah. So ID four, I also hate that about it that that would that was like we're just going to make up a thing and say that it's cool. And then and in my opinion, anybody who refers to this movie as ID four, you're part of the problem You're a sucker and you're part of the problem because it's not the sce of the movie has nothing to do with What is the problem exactly of movie Market and Gun Mad Tony hereere's your punishment. If you call this ninet ninety four nineteen in nineteen ninety six that Here's your punishment. If you call this thing ID four today or at any point in the past, you now for a year, you must refer to the fourth of July. as ID four. y four Jason, I don't, I don't know if that's enforceable. I feel like that might be beyond the remain has Jason is what is everybody What is everybody going to do the day after this podcast is out orr I before likely normally. No, that's another move. They're going to step through a stargate, but I hope the White House isn't down. Yeah I mean for the longest time when, you know, the rumor moves Oh, you know, will there be a sequel to Independence Day? The rumored title of it was ID four two. ID four two Yeah. I remember the ultimate answer to the ultimate question. Just all run together. there we go. it would answer the ultimate question. Wow. Oh I mean, could if it was ID five, that would be even better. likeike what Or ID two. ID two The sequel to ID four would be ID two and people be like, what And I'd be off in the That's right Dummies. ID two. ID harder. ID harder. It's almost as stupid as calling the sequel Independence Day resesurgence. Resurgence. You know, you know what you know what That's really clever watchoney the It's amazing. Imagine if that was a real movie, but it's not you made it up. It's a real star Raiders. It's aial H to the deevils there I'll tell you This is how you know it does exist because Misez is better than that All right. Okaykay, you got me there Any final thoughts about ID four or as people call it Independence Day, nineteen ninety six. I mean, even in nineteen ninety six, I sat there going, I thought you already told this one. You thought about it David? No Yes just for everybody else But this is this is, you know, even in David sitting thereorth version of what he thinks about it. Yeah and this is not what I think about it at all. This is literally In nineteen ninety six six, I was even looking at the screen and going, it's Margaret Collen. B. And that's pretty much say thing I walk away with now. That's great. It is Margaret It was nice to see her in a big screen movie. Great That was another time thesis on Margaret Collin is over. It never over. It never over It was never over. No, it really doesn't. I would be fascinated to show cururrent thirteen year old this movie. because I was a thirteen year old when this movie me too. M too. And and I have a feeling that it would be similar to having having a current thirteen year old look at, you know, things that happened in seventeen seventy six. they they Cotified that slavery was going to stay in place. Why would they seemems crazy I just I want to believe that that a that a u a media literate thirteen year old of today would look at this movie and be like, Ah yeah, those of you who were thirteen when this came out would like this, wouldn't you? No no teenagers making me feel bad about myself again. I will tell you, nobody in this house wanted to watch it with me They were like, this is dumb Yeah know, a bunch of snoty Jase and snils over there. Y. Yeah I mean Yeah. I think I feel like I'm protected a little bit because I was thirteen the summer this came out. So it's like, I have I have like young Ean nostalgia on my side because, you know, it was a summer blockbuster. I didn't get to go to the movies that often. It was like it was a kind of a cool thing. So I forgive myself for actually kind of liking this movie, even though I've recognize that there's not a lot of there there, you know, it's not you just go you go along, you turn on critical thinking skills and you just, you know, you go for the ride. Popcorn movie, Things B blow up It's the sort of thing that I can watch and be like, this is Iirrepressibly stupid And it's fine that it's stupid And it can also be troubling that people look at this movie and go, now that is patriotism. That is a thing to build a belief system around. and I'm like, it's a dumb enjoyable two and a half. says God help me. Why am I doing this? Let's dig further. I mean this you see a smaller, more efficient American government overcoming a exteral threat A smaller, more efficient Ameran government that can just hres whenever it wants. The entire cabinet is gone. That is I do you know President Oam or Generally, I'm all for him. I think his decision to fire the Secretary of defeense when all of the rest of his cabinet was missaking action. Yeah. That was a mistake. I don't think that just for con he doesn't go nowhere to go and doesn't go anywhere Yeah, for Katu government reasons, that was a mistake But everything else, you know, he's got my vote. And you know, what whatever else we say about this movie I also saw Mars attacks in the theater that year. Oh. wororst movie. would actually I would actually watch this again. I would watch this movie ten thousand times before I would watch Mars Yes. Yeah. Jason Jason. Yes. Jason's really come around on this one since he realized, oh These guys like Mars attacks had a release date and these guys dated it for the fourth of July and found a way to hit that date This movie, this movie was trying to prevent the apocalypse Any movie. Any movie that's tri that's got it in. for Mars attacks is a friend of mine Okay, right? Is the fr right I don't think this movie specifically has an informart' attack. It just came out It totally does. it's jumping the gun. It's gonna it's going Jason, this movie is not sentent. It's just a piece of deep impact work. the it's Du It's Dunty's peicking it. exxactly. You got it. you get it get So So Mars Atts your least favorite Tim Buron movie? I know you hate all Tim Burton movies, but Yes, Mars Ats is my least favorite Tim movie. You don't like you when things go a ack at you. I don't I don't And the true tragedy, Tony is that I saw Tim Burton at Skywalker Ranch having lunch when he was doing the the audio edit of Mars Tags and I could have leaped killed killed him right there. Jason Jason, again, controversial takes on the Incomparable this week. Wow. I think it's okay that you did not kill a man. I I mean don one do not care in the world. I mainly protect myself by just not watching Innocent director killed by Madman. I don't. I don't. And then Mars Evevers comes out. I never thought about Mars got it now. If only Jason had committed felony murder Would I feel better you know So because because this very well could be quoted in court, I want to make very clear. I did not come into this recording today Just expecting to hear the story of Jason Snlls baby. I could I could have killed Tim Burton, but I chose not to right Good choices, everybody. Just trick around the panel. whoo is thumbs up, thumbs down on murder or where people? Where are people today? Oh thumbs down on it. That's how I allowed Tim Burton to live Okay, come on. But. I will say Mars attacks is bad, but have you seen Sweeny Todd? could have prevented Set. haven'ten Seetie Tes. So' here's my final thought about it'tndependency. by the way does it does very there's like a little shaded ID four behind the words indndependency on the poster because they were trying to make that happen. And what I willll say is I appreciate this movie for what it is, which is Perfect representation, I think. of the Hollywood blockbuster, especially of the period, of the dumb loud Hollywood blockbuster movie. And to use, I'm going to go back to David's Son's scale here It is like right at level. It is It is lot is exactly fine. It is at zero. It is exactly fine. It is a it is in fact, I might even say a perfect representation of the big dumb Hollywood spepecial effects action movie and and that's look, there were so many that followed in its wake that were so much worse Wh is not to say that this is not an incredibly stupid movie You know It go if you know that going in I can tell you It goes down a lot easier knowing that it's just a big dumb movie. Oh it's is going to be the move you expected to make Because it is that movie, it is always that movie. I enjoy that you spend an hour and a half calling something relentlessly stupid as a compliment and and go on about how hey, it has there no's just no calories, all flavor. Yeah. It's like a vape. doesn't actually No that's's no because I don't likeapor. That wouldd be below zero on the on the scale. It's zero. It's water. It's like It's it's water, but not the water that tastes okay Okay, N It's like one of the worst liiz. Yeah. Yeah that's right. It's like a Bury Leacroix. It's a Berry Leacroix. You could You can drink your lights. You could drink it Bery Laacroix on a seventy degree day. L you don't need it, but why not? And it's not refrigerated. No. No. And it's like you go into those fifties movies knowing that They're not great They're just kind of fun. Yeah. This is that movie. This is thatiesbody Nobody thought if only I had killed Roland Emmerick, I'd stopp this movie from being made This is a movie that did not compel anyone to have murderous thoughts. Mbe that was moonfall. Yeah was there was no potential murder at Skywalker Ranch over this. No. You don't know. Wh are so many people killed in that cafeteria? Well As George Lucas. He's the one who knows. You're blaming George Lucas for the murders. the murderers Okay, I just think the murderers are at fault. So who don't know? Wh who could have stopped the prequels I w to know Only George Lucas knows for sure. All right, enough about that and enough about Independent state. We're done. I'd like to thank my panelists for being here and talking about this d movie. Elene Sims, thank you It was a joy. David Jaylor, thank you I'm gonna to go read Lanford Wilson's the fifth of July. I think that's a lot better. Great. Moiss' Chuon, thank you I forgot to memorize the St.t Crispans Day speech, but you know, it's okay Once more into into the breach. Independence Day Applause. Tony Sindlar, thank you All you need is love And thanks N everybody out there for listening to this. incredibly