Reflecting on Democracy and Hope

N P R This is the Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Wayon Wong. A few weeks ago, not so far from where I live, the Obama Pidential center opened on the south side of Chicago. We were gonna do an episode on it, but our friends at Code Switch got there first. So today we're going to share with you their excellent full half hour episode on the new center and its impact on the neighborhood around it hope you enjoy What wass good y'all? You're listening to aode switch to show about race and identity from NPR? I'm Je Demby. I'BA Parker Okay, so there's this school on the south side of Chicago called Hyde Park Academy. It's really big and it has a lot of the challenges that really big inner city schools with lots of poor kids have. You know, old building, not a lot of resources. You've heard that story before, yeah. M Just last month, some students there walked out of class to protest because three students died Over the course of just one month, that's horrible. The students who walked out said that the school had cut the community groups offering support services But right across the street, Stone Island Avenue. from High Park Academy is the sprawling, ambitiously designed campus of the Obama presidential center. not the presidential library Even though that's still what some folks call it. Right right right. But there is actually a Chicago public library branch on the center campus grounds. but anyway, it has a big basketball court. There are grills for everybody to use. This is a state of the art playground and a museum. Parker, there's a sledding hill slding you? Yeah, because you know, Chicago is was famously flat and so Michelle Obama, you know, who grew up nearby on this outside hadn themt build one because she'd never got to slight as a kid The Obama Senenter reportedly cost around eight hundred fifty million dollars to build, and the Obama Foundation ouse the fact that it was almost all private money that was raised to pay for this thing. But you know how it goes. The city, of course hadad to come up off some money for costs related to construction in a public park there So the Obama center is set to officially open to the public on juneteenth. but from almost the moment around ten years ago, they announced it back in twenty seventeen P prettytty spot. sitting on Lake Michigan would be the spot for the Obama center there has been pushback. like a lot of it and from a lot of different directions. Yeah, I've heard about some of that. There were people concerned that this big shiny new campus to commemorate the Obama presidency would speed up the gentrification already happening on the south side peopleeople having to move because the cost to rent in the neighborhood was going to go up even higher. Right, right, right. And other folks We're concerned that letting the Obama center build on this public park in the city. That would mean opening up parkland to other private builders. But also don't the folks on the south side deserve nice things too? And that's a really big sentiment too, Parker People have a lot of feelings about their new neighbor, like this twenty nineteen highigh park graduate who requested we not use her name because she currently works for the city and is not authorized to speak to the media. And not saying the Obama Center isn't a bad thing. It is truly a really good thing if it is used, right? E it is prioritized for the people who live in that community The studio, the little park, I could see myself walking my dog in a little garden. next to L Nancy and Kamern. But she did share that the neighborhood around the Obama center has become too pricey for her and her family and she wondered how all this would affect her old school People like students like me wouldn't be able to attend there Thates that's the end goal They don't want to continue to cater to black students B way they want to move. But you know, public space is always contested, not unlike presidential legacy. True And architecture of this place. I mean What's a diplomatic way to say it looks excessive. Right. Right. It looks like a giant, they call it the Obama Lisk pejoratively.. But a lot of the architectural reviews of this center are about the very different vibe you get from looking at this place depending on where you're standing, like either It looks like a beacon in the sunlight. or this big foreboding monolith. I mean, it probably looks different if you're a tourist walking the grounds than It would if you're one of the kids of that high school across the street. It is like transforming. this intensely segregated neighborhood. And so That's what we're going to answer today, Parker because we're talking to two southsiders who have been looking into the Obama center. and we're going to dig into the complicated local legacy of the man And the myth that this brawling project commemorates and celebrates And we're gonna try to think back to those heady Hopeful days Not all that long ago when the South side's dreams and the country's dreams We're all wrapped up in each other Take it away, Jean So I wanted to pick the brains of some of our co switch play cousins who live on the south side. These are folks who've been covering the Obama center and, you know, all the drama around it from different angles. In their day jobs, since the notion of putting the center on the south side was just a baby idea I am Natalie Moore, a Chicago native, longime quter in editor in Chicago and I teach journalism at Northwestern University And I'm Ma Quja. I'm a writer and an educator and a multimedia producer. I've been at the Invisible Institute for the past ten years. It's a journalism production company on the south S side of Chicago We mostly investigate police misconduct, but for many years, we also had a youth program at Hyde Park Academy, which is across the street from the Obama center. And I interviewed kids about their feelings about the development for many years Both of you are Chicagoans, But the south side was for decades was like the largest black neighborhood in the United States. It is the Atlantans feel like a bunch of Atlantans would get mad at that. But like you know, it is the estuary into which all the rivers of the Great migration flowed. That's part of the reason Barack Obama was drawn to it, right? When he was like working through these big questions of identity, this is where he met. But show, obviously, you know, I did stories back then you know about why the first black president came from the south side of Chicago because I am serious when I say Chicago is the capital of Black America. You look at You know, Black History month rounded here Black studies, you know, all you know, the different ways that things have converged here in the heartland Can you talk about If you lived in the South Side during his presidency, like I've read about and heard about how there was like, you know, a secret Svice detail in a block, right that he and Michelle used to live on Was there other ways in which his sort of like presidence was like physically felt in the space of the Sausa of Chicago when he was in the White House Well, I used to live on Greenwood the same Okay as the Obama Leighbors w blocks away, we moveved there.raw sugar from them No, they were in the White House. We moved the air.iny. No. You were on Greenwood too? fifty I was on fifty third in Greenwood, Yeahah. they were on fifty I was on fifty second in Greenwood. neighbors is. Nighbors. Yeah. ball shouldn't from each other, not from Obamas. you know, when the Obamas were in town, I mean I remember one time I had a flat tire. I'm trying to come home And the police are like, you can't come down this block because I wasn't on the list. I'm like, but you see, I have this flat fire. And I had to drive all the way around to try to get home You know it was an inconvenience, but it wasn't like they weren't there a lot. Yeah. And when they were You could just go to Velooy's, which is his favorite diner and sometimes meet him, which was a fun way to meet him. So I don't know. It was kind of cool to get to meet him that way. You met your neighbor Obama something. Both of you like bumped it to him at the din. A couple of times. Oh wow. A couple times. I've met him in the capacity as being a joh.ot just as a neighbor Yeah. And there was a certain ownership that people felt. They saw him. they knew him This wasn't something that was abstract Yeah And like globally too, whenever you travel and if you say that you're from Chicago, any taxi driver whatever be like, Obama.' like, Yeah. That is my neighbor.ike it was exciting in that way and the merch game was unmatched. It's still Oprah Michael, Obama What do you remember about how people talked about the Obama presidency in the city back when he was in the White House, like what was the vibe I would say mostly excitement. You know, there's two thousand eight. And then there's twenty sixteen But you I was a reporter the whole time of his presidency. and Yeah, I just I think it was exciting. And then you know, you have folks, black folks, not just black folks who You know, just really don't believe in the imperialist nature of a presidency. so You know, I heard S of that, you know, sometimes things were a little Unfair Um You know, Qestioning his motives or, you know who he is and then there are, you know, other critiques that are rooted in policy and understanding that The Empire knows no color Mhm. Um, Vavya, you were pretty young during the Obama presidency. Now you work with younger people who probably don't remember pre Obama America, right? So like how do the people in the neighborhood you work with talk about or think about his legacy to you There's honestly something kind of amazing about The fact that having a black president was not like considered remarkable to them. L when I would talk to students a lot about high school students about voting or like take them to vote once they turned eighteen. Oh you would take them to vot? Yeah, that was part of what I did. And then if they didn't want to vote I would like interview them about why just to like understand their like interest in civics or disinterest And I think There was overall not an interest in voting. in part because the students I worked with their interaction with the government in general was through the lens of just being policed every day, having police in their school, police around their school, cop cars waiting outside of Hyde Park Academy every day, expecting a fight And so to them, it's like Participating in voting or anything was like just the same thing as interacting with the police And so Obama kind of fell into that too. He visited Hyde Park Academy a few times. That was cool. like it's cool. He's very nice, right? Like he's a He's a celebrity but There wasn't this feeling of like, o, me too, I could be like that ure I mean, for those of us who are not. from the shy, who don't have a sense of the geography there. Like how would you describe The specific area that the Obama center is located For people who aren't from Chicago, the south side is like this blank, amorphous erm but it's the largest geographic part of The city So it is in Jackson Park which you know it's near the Woodlawn neighborhood, which is a black neighborhood. My mother grew up in West Woodlawn This is where Lorraine Hansbury's father. bought a house, that was the inspiration for a raisin in the sun. But I would say that the park is more of a south side park rather than just a Woodlawn Park. Woodlawn is just s outth of the University of Chicago. So there've always been housing tensions that are there Housing intent is because the University of Chicago is a well resourced school and so much of the south side of Chicago where it is working class, middle class, black families, and all the sort of friction and drag that comes home housing for black folks. Yeah. One thing I'd love to mention about the geography of where the Obama center sits is that it kind of straddles this extremely wealthy part of Hyde Park. and then you cross this park And then you're at Hyde Park Academy, which like not onlyily said is actually in Woodlawn And so quickly you shift from like wealthy Hyde Park into a much lower income area. There's affordable housing right around there that is been kind of under threat and a lot of tenant unions have been organizing around it. The other thing I'd say too to these observations about how Jackson Park has been used and cherished over the years is I remember when the Obama Center was deciding on where they were going to build. and one of the advocates for Building it in Jackson Park was the president's advisor, David Axerod. And I remember he famously said that nobody uses Jackson Park and that this would bring people to Jackson Park. and that like I continue to feel and hear that in my head every time I'm in Jackson Park, biking through for the cherry blossoms, going to the house music picnic. Yeah, but there's some invisible lines within the park on who is going where I never go to the cherry blossoms because I always forget. R right, right, right. They're also there for like three days. Yeah. I'm not opposed to them. So I always miss the window But Have I taken my daughter on the swings? Yes. Do I go to the beach? Yes.. Yeah. People love Jackson Park and have been using it for a long time and it's just an important thing to think about when you think of what this impact will be. When he says nobodyody he's like He means certain no bodies, right? Yeah exactly. He means like tourists. So now to the you've been down to the new centers. You've seen The Obama Lisk as his att trractors have called, haveave you've seen at the new center? What do you think of it So I've been covering this story. four The site was even Do you have like a longitudinal view on like this? again I would say the campus itself is Beautiful There's a lot of open space and winding walking paths There's a beautiful public library branch There's gardens, there's a lagoon, and then there's Lake Michigan on the other side. so you can walk from one space too the other You know, the some of the architecture critics here ' skeptical the building because nothing is that tall. Um But now that it's done, there's a sense of, okay I see how All of this works Um, I guess I'll finally say having a building like this so Big in our community or swath of a community that's not used to it. you know, is a little It's jarring. But people also point out like there's this wonderful Picasso statue in Daley Plaza that was when it was built decades ago, people hated it. They're like, this is ugly Why is this here We need to replace it and now it is beloved. So I do think Over time, we might see some different opinions on how this space looks. but I would say from a campus perspective It's beautiful. The playground looks really cool. Oh yeah. playground. My biggest fear about the architecture or like frustration rather, is the playground that the Hyde Park Academy students would play on was across the street and they built home court over that. and I know that that campus will be heavily policed and I'm like, well where are they going to play? And so my hope is that the new playground, which does look dope like that space that the kids can come to. Have you been M? Have you been down to the Obama Center? I have not been inside of it No. I've like looked around the campus, but I have not been inside. Gota., the thing you say now is interesting as like The way that sort of when things are sort of habituated into the landscape in these ways, you know, I remember thinking about the Vietnam War meemorial. it was hated when it was first like introduced on the Washington Mall, right? And that was like this sort of like almost like the paragigon of how you should do something that's like that somber. And so many of the reviews I've been reading about Obama Center have been kind of almost necessarily in conversation with the Trump moment. and it's like, oh, I wonder how people will Think about the way this place looks when we are further removed from this particular moment Do you have any sense of how the area around the Obama center will be policed So is supposed to be public But you know. what I am interested in saying is what does that public ? Outside of the Obama center, there's so much police scing the beach And I know people are thinking, what are you talking about? Yes, Chicago has lots of beaches because Lake Michigan is a sea. It is not a placid lake. You cannot see the other side. So You know, there's already a heavy police presence in public parks. so Yes, I will be curious to see this is like Yeah, I think this summer in particular, I'm interesterested and anxious to see what policing will be like because in the neighborhood of Hyde Park and the beaches that Natalie is describing The police presence has dramatically intensified as the weather has gotten warmer Um There is a lot of fear around groups of black teenagers just gathering and it is pretty stark the difference in how people are policed in that area. So I'm excited to hear that, you know, we're supposed to be able to use the park grounds and I think that it'll be really beautiful. and The summer, I think will be a contentious time done When we come back, I do think that even people that love Obama and that love the center have not been able to argue with the facts of like the affordability crisis and the displacement. Stay with us yl Jene, Just Jene for this part Code swwitch And we're talking about the impact. of the opening of the Obama presresidential center on the south side of Chicago. So I'm talking to some locals, Mar Rquadja, a writer and organizer who has worked with students at the school, kind of next door to the center, and the journalist, Natalie Moore. Now that you have been following this, obviously from the moment this center was announced, right? You've been following the story for a while and you know, from the beginning, there's been all these concerns around like what Putting the Obama center in this location would due to the rest of neighborhood, there's been really intense pushback from people in the neighborhood from organizers trying to stop it from being built. you talk about the universe of concerns that they had in the early stages when this was like in the sort of gestational stages of the Senator Bain bill You know, one of the stories that I did early on was There There was a lot of concern that this was going to be a land grab at the University of Chicago. Yeah That was one of things I wrot to you Yeah And so a project that I did with another reporter was We created a boundary and said, let's see who the biggest land holder. is Dang East Woodline. And it was not the University of Chicago. It was actually the city of Chicago because these were vacant lots, like houses that were torn down, property that the city inherited So the city really had more of the power to help shape because of what they own So that was a big takeaway I remember doing that story The late Maddie Butler a housing organizer did affordable housing. said there is enough room for everybody in this community because there's so much vacancy that people don't have to leave. there's no need for displacement because there's so much to build on him. Totally And Miss. Butler and like the tenant unions that she worked with, they really did say throughout their ten year campaign that we're not anti Obama center. Like we just want to be able to stay here to enjoy it. And that's also what the young people at Hyde Park have said over the past ten years of interviewing them was like We feel like we're gonna to be pushed out, O our families are gonna to be pushed out. L it seems really cool. I hope my younger siblings get to enjoy it Have we seen anything that happen? Like have we seen people' displace? Have we seen howous the prices go So yeah, so the Illinois Answers Project recently put out a story that had some really helpful data In the past ten years, the median sale price of a single family home in Woodlwn has jumped four point six times. So the real estate speculation has been dramatic. If you're just browsing on Zillow, you'll see homes for a million dollars in Woodlwn Yes, people have been displaced.. I'm curious about how the Obama Foundation was responding to all these complaints, right to all this sort of pushback they were getting from southsiders Not much They've stayed on message about This is development for The community. We want to be on the southide. This community is important to us. It's near where Michelle Obama grew up It's addressing some of the things that she said that she didn't see as a kid And I also think that they were able to punt because like I said, the city owns. so much of the property. Like like I said, it's not our response. It's like this is not our questions to solve. Yeah. And I would just say in general, you know, just to brought in this out like outside is so expensive. Like Woodlwn is not the only neighborhood that is suffering from Affordability issues. You know, the city hasn't been able to pass other measures that housing advocates have won it. L rent is is really high. you know, there is a citywide housing crisis that is going on in There are very few neighborhoods that are exempt from that. R I'm curious about When people are organizing you know, to and push him back on the Oama administration. that There's like the singular affective representational power of the Obama presidency, right for black folks in particular. And I imagine part of what the organizers had to doal with was also justust people who rock with the Obamas who are like Obama fans. Was that a dynamic that was present on the ground? Like were people were there Obama stands for lack a better word who're sort of like like a, not too much of our president, you know what I mean I would say ye, I don't I wouldn't say they were organizing, but I do think that even people that love Obama and that love the center have not been able to argue with the facts of like the affordability crisis and the displacement. Some people want the displacement also. There's a lot of hatred of poor working class people. I think there are like not just developers, but I do think there are people who are like, yeah, I don't want that housing to be so close to the Obama Senate I think that's been a hard legacy in some ways of Chicago's public housing crisis since demolishing high rise public housing, I think There's just a lot of feeling of like, I don't want people who are in public housing to be in my in my neighborhood. like why are they here now And that's something that I have noticed in talking with people. but I would also love to add that I think one thing I did notice in terms of peopleople feeling activated around the housing campaign, whether or not they got deeply involved, I think one of the things that made people more sympathetic to it was In the early days of the campaign, I think this is twenty seventeen President Obama said in like a conference, like one of those community meetings. And he was directly asked about if the Obama center would sign on to a CBA community benefits agreement. What's the CBA for those of us who don't Yeah, a community benefits agreement It's basically like a package piece of legislation that provides protections that are negotiated around like housing or jobs, some set of agreements with the community. And so sometimes a CBA should be about ennvironmental concerns. been that's a conversation right now in another part of the city. But the Obama CBA was specifically around housing protections Michelle and I as residents of the community As people who have worked and lived there for a very long time feel very confident in our ability to make sure that we have a very inclusive process where everybody has their say. And he basically was like you guys Broadly speaking, it was like there's no community organization that speaks for all the community. We know what's best. You should trust us Um, And he just shut it down. That's very fascinating, considering he is a community organizer famously, right? Yeah He would have been one of the people maybe on the other side of this in a different lifetime. I've been there.. I used to be the organizer count. I remember for me, it was jarring. It was really jarring to hear him just flat out refuse to engage with organizers. And I think a lot of people like me were're also kind of taken aback by it Natalie from like from the outside, this seems kind of like You know, you're classic gentrification and revitalization storyike you got this person who wants to build something, they have deep pockets. they want to build something in a neighborhood. builduilding might speed up the rise of housing costs, the speed up displacement. But in this case, the deep pocketed developer person is the first black president T simple a framing here I I would say Yes. Okay. This may be going on a tangent. so just bear with me here Black Souside neighborhoods in particular have been stripped away and also starved from invvestment So when things do come to a neighborhood There are concerns about who is this for When I have heard organizers say This is a wholesale attempt by the Obamas to push us out. they don't want us here I don't agree with that sentiment. I think that's going too far My take has been that there's a lot of overstating on all sides. There are not white yuppies who are dying to move to Woodline to live by the Obama center I also don't think that the Obama center is going to this renaaissance of black owned businesses on sixty third street, Either And you know, Je, you and I have talked about this gentrification is a fraught word because it often does not happen. in bllack neighborhoods neighborhood. So What does that look like? here to have a beautiful development but making sure everybody gets to use it. Um I think that there are some bolder things the Foundation could have done given Barack Obama's legacy as a community organizer Michelle Obama grew up. in South Shore They got married at the South Shore Cultural Center. you know, they lived near the community. So I think their intent is not We're building this so we can push black people That said, if you do feel left behind in this country or this city and neighborhood I understand that more protections are needed. I also want to highlight the pushback from a white lit group called Protect our Parts. Okay Their issue was We don't think this should be built on park land. That was just their fundamental I was reading about this alost And this group kept suing. And the courts kept throwing it out And you know, there was a final ruling in in twenty eighteen Thats it This isn't going to happen. So When I see a white led group called Protect ourur Parks that doesn't advocate for equity, otherwise That is a very intentional, curious choice to make I appreciate you bringing that distinction up because I think that that was part of the reason that the housing campaign had to be so strong and its messaging about saying yes, Obama Center, no displacement. becausecause in media, specifically national media, it's hard to make that distinction of like not all these people organizing around issues related to the center are on the same page. And I know that they've had to turn down you know, interviews from outlets that are kind of secretly right wing because they're like, wait, what's the what's the angle on why they're trying to be critical of the center? It makes it really hard to talk about this, which is why I think Even Natalie and I are being like so careful with our words too because I don't I just never wanted to be like disrespectful because I know also how much This does just mean to so many people. It means I like really can't understate like how excited so many people really deeply are. how many Black familyan reunions are going to be coming here every step thousand percent. Like it's going to be a site of pilgrimage for a lot of people who like, you know, if my mom and I find myself at Chicago, she's going to be on our list As it should be. And then also the people that live around there, like I'm like, I'm sure I'll take the kids I babysit to go play on that playground. That's going to be the nicest playground in the area. like absolutely.. You know, I'm always like, I don't want what I'm saying, this ideally nuanced critique to become fodder for a white supremacist who just hates Obama Well I mean, to that point I mean, this Obama center is is coming into being on juneteenth at a time when Again, the vib friends, the vibbs are trash. They're absolutely trash. Democratic voters Ill pissed that Trump, They're just as angry Democrats in Washington. in the decade since he left office like that Obama era hope is increasingly hard to fail and like the most cutting appraisals of his presidency are coming from the left, like not just the rights who How does a building dedicated to optimism around democracy in the American proroject, like how does that land differently right now for y'all? So I haven't been inside yet, but I will say that friends of a variety of backgrounds that have gotten a preview of the center all said that they cried and that basically that it felt like the promise of twenty fifteen. And so you just feel this stark contrast between like how bad the vibes are in twenty twenty six and like what so many of us believe to still be possible in twenty fifteen. And that the contrast sounds vastating, but Yeah. I'm curious is that is that how you felt about it too, Natalie? that it felt like it was a monument to how we felt in twenty fifteen Yeah. so I put So the piece that I wrote after the press Day was a take about what does it mean to have a museum talking about democracy when democracy is falling apart. And I think should we keep saying Jackson Park We haven't said who It's named after The park is named after Andrew Jackson. I was wondering a slave holding president. So there are these interesting juxtapositions that are there. so It's so hard not to think about presidency in this moment. The museum opens not with the Obamas, but other struggles like suffrages. labor movement You know, Black Panthers So they are Talking about movements that have and have also floundered before you even get into. Obama story. so I think that the museum is really designed for People get to have some nostalgia and think about that moment of hope. to leave there and feel like they can do something no matter how small. It is, especially given the moment. Now they're not They don't ever say the word Trump. and when you ask, you know, don't even ask them that. justust talk about democracy, but that is their way. And they have to know that people are are thinking about this. Natalie M more MarroQadrant than Thank you for talking to us. Appreciate you. Thanks for having us. So good to see you guys. see both of you. By the way, we reached out to the Obama Foundation for a comment, but we did not hear back from them in time for this episode And y'all, that is our show. It just a reminder that you can follow code Switch wherever you listen to podcasts, so you never miss an episode. This episode was produced by Jess Kung. It was edited by Courtney Stein. It was engineered by Qisey Lee. And thank you to Mya Quaa and the Invisible Institute for sharing some of the interviews they did with students from Hyde Park Academy. And we would be remiss if we did not shot out the rest of the Code towitch Mazive. That's Christina Kala, and Xavier Lopez and Dahia Mortata and Le Dilla, and Martin Kirdwood, andmire Dangerfield and Yolanda Sang Gueni. As for me, I'm Gene Demby And I'm BA Parker. Be easy, y'all