Richie Saunders Interview

Coming up, we got Derek Parker and Richie Saunders talking about the NBA draft and also a big thank you everybody. We hit our goal of one thousand reviews on Spotify got another goal for you. Can we get to five hundred on Apple? We're close. We're really close to five hundred on Apple. so if you can Please give us a five star review on Apple Podcast. Would love to get to five hundred before the NBA draft next week. coming up Richie Saunders later in the show, but first we get Derek Parker talking about some big NBA draft questions It's the best time of the year in the NBA right now with the conference finals, then the finals, then the draft and summer League And on gameime, you get the advantage as a fan. It's the hack for unlocking amazing tickets and just a few taps. 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Terms do apply. again Create an account and Rdeem code KOC for twenty dollars off. Download the gameime app today Eing by his remorse Buy a new car. I' be booo Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvmana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice? I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carbana. Limitations and exlusions can apply. See your seven day return policy, Carbana d comot I'm pretty confident talking you into a mic. Hey, I'm doing it right now but home projects. I second guess everything Is that noise normal Is that water damage Who do I even call That's where thumb tag comes in Just upload a photo or voice notote and it uses AI powered search to match you with the right top rated local pro. So instead of guessing, eager clarity and can hire with confidence. For your next home project, try Thumbtack Hire the R proro today. Ally, let's talk to M NBA draft, join me from Sorts Illustrated and his YouTube page, Dererk Parker. Derek, what's up How's it going man? I'm excited. eightight days away. It's coming up. I know. I know. We are right around the corner, baby. I'm fired up. Finals just ended the next one and all. We're going to talk about some lessons from these playoffs from the finals a little bit later, but we'll start off with some questions, some relevant news in this morning Why is Darren Peterson only working out for the Washington of Wizards? Jeremy Wu and Sean Shrani over at ESBN reported that Peterson is planning on only working out for the wizards who have the number one pick. He's not working out for Utah like AJD Bonsson did. He worked out for one and two Peterson is only working out for number one. I know you have Peterson number one on your board, Derek. I'm curious about what you think his intentions are here and what your overall thoughts are about the strategy You're right. I do have Darren Peterson number one on my board. I still think that he is, you know, the top player in terms of like looking at his stuff holistically Extremely good off the ball. I think that's really important in the modern NBA I still think there's like some on ball funk hanging around that like he's going to be better on the ball than it appeared at Kansas This though is really intriguing to me just because there were so many questions about Darren Peterson that like Adding even more questions to the docket is very interesting from his camp. Like I don't quite know what the thought process is I understand there's like the competitiveness of We've seen top prospects before say like I'm the number one pick. I'm only going to work out for the team at number one this is a little different, right? Like there were a lot of question marks around his season at Kansas so I don't quite know what the strategy is if it's to go to if it's to go to Washington and try to be the number one guy if it's to kind of osture to have the other two teams fight for him. I truly don't know. I think it's a very interesting decision from him and his camp I think it's about agency. Peterson and Kuante George are both represented by the same agency. Kiante George is an upcoming free agent one year from now, restricted free agency. I would be willing to bet that it has something to do with the fact they want don't want both of their clients on the same team. They don't want Dereren Peterson stealing touches from Kuante George and Kiante George getting paid less a year from now. and Darren Peterson, they want him in the best possible situation to have the ball in his hands. unlike Dylan Harper last year going to San Antonio. We saw the whole story about I mean, shockingly Devin Vasll saying at the podium that Harper was unhappy about about touches and roll and all that over the course of the season. I can't believe Aceell actually said that. But the that's a reality where if you go to Utah You might be sharing the ball with Pante George and other ball handlers. They have Isaiah Collier for that matter with Jaron Jackson Jr. and Laurry Market and getting touches. They might not view Utah as the best destination for him. Whas They like the Washington Fit and they know worst case scenario If the jazz decide they don't want to take Peterson, they go with Boozer instead. Peterson would be the third pick to Memphis, which is a good destination or the fourth pick to Chicago or some team going over the top trade into that three or four spots That's my gut feeling of what the strategy is here for Peter. notothing necessarily just about purely, I'm definitely going to be number one or anything like that Yeah, I think it makes sense for Peterson specifically, I don't know that there's a bad fit. Like he's going to have the ball in all of these places right now forQuante George, maybe not the best fit. but in terms of the jazz, like he would be the building block, the number one guy, right? Like he's going to have the ball with the wizards, even if it's, you know, the blls the Grizzlyies like He's going to be your franchise piece Now with Peterson being number one on your board I' at the risk of him becoming a megast star and what I'm about to say, getting clips out of context. I'm going to say it anyway, I'm going to take the part of Peterson skeptic. in a front office And I'm going to push back on you having them right number one How can you have a guy ranked number one, Durk who missed eleven out of thirty five games And one of those eleven out of the thirty five games, he fifteen minutes before the game against undefeated Arizona, the biggest game of his life. F an excuse not to play. Oh, I'm sick. I'm not feeling well, I have the flu. How can you get that guy number one on your board when the alternatives are AJD Boner who took his team into the tournent at BYU and Cambooz are one of the most efficient, most effective college freshman, we've seen in recent history, how can you trust Peterson, this self proclaimed loner? to be the face of your franchise when he doesn't show the toughness to play through sickness who dealt with this cramping injury and doesn't even portray himself as a leader. He says he's a loner, antis social loner. How can that guy be number one It's a valid question. I think there's a lot of valid answers here too though. It's super, super layered. I think firstly, like the mental stuff with the cramps makes a lot of sense to me in terms of like It was almost like a PTSD aspect in terms of him like really not wanting to go through that again. Like we know that he was hospitalized with the cramping. like If he would feel that popping up in the middle of a game or pre game or had any notion that this was going to happen again, I think it makes a lot of sense as to why he was tentative to play. other layer is Everyone you talk to about Darren Peterson just says, he's ultra competitive. He's a winner. He's like the consumate professional like I think all of that lends itself to to like he's going to play in the NBA. He's going to be a very competitive player. And then lastly, I just think he's the most talented. When I watch him, I just get like my spider senses, my draft tingles like He's just that good. likeike on the ball off the ball, like He's just a legitimate player. again, the off the ball gravity like That is one of the number one things I feel like we've seen from this postseason in general of like, yeah You want your JBs on the ball. You want your guys, your number one scoring options to have the ball in hand, but Having a guy like this that can bein the defense without even having the ball Also having the ability to give him the rock, let him drive, let him pass, let him decision make. like I just think it's so valuable, especially in a guy that is probably the best defender of the bunch at least right now in that top three. I think it's totally fair. And like you said with the intntel aspect with him, the intntel is good overall in terms of his approach to the game. I don't think he's going to be a leader necessarily. I don't think he's a vcal guy. I take him for what he says when he says I'm an anti social loner. It's the truth. I mean, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. You can still be a great player, but you're more in that Koi Leonard category, right? where you're not necessarily a raa raa guy likeike I think Kamboozer projects to be AJD Bonz is a very outgoing big personality. I think he can mature into that. Peterson is probably Not the vocal leader in a locker room and that's perfectly okay. I don't think it it's a bad thing necessarily. but I do think the the the cramping and all that is intntriguing nonetheless. I mean, I think that's the main thing and that's why if I'm the Utah jazz. At number two, I don't look at this as a one to one with the Ace Bailey decision last year. withith Ace Bailey, the only question with him with him was he doesn't want to go there. But like the player Ace Bailey, you know the player Ace Bailey. you knew everything about him. There's no medical concerns or anything like that. You didn't need him to be in your building to feel confident taking Ace Bailey over Treay Johnson or the other guys available with the fifth pick last year But with Darren Peterson There are the personality things you'd want to get into if you're the Utah jazz at number two, assuming Age eightie Bonnce is number one And if he's available at two, you'd want to get into that. You'd want to get your hands on as many medical records as possible, give him as much testing as you possibly can because Everybody I talk to about Peterson around the league, everything he said is true But everybody is also like Well, there must be something underlying creatine thing. There has to be something underlying that creatine triggered it. I had Dr. Brian Suter on my podcast who runs his sensational YouTube channel talking about medical issues and sports and With Peterson, we It's about how there's no way it was just the creatine. There must be something underneath that the create team may or may not have kind of sparked to create And I think that's the one hole in the Ramona Sheelburn story. like Peterson was very upfront, as you said, about the mental aspect. Once something traumatic like that happened, he didn't want it to happen again in front of tens of thousands of people in the arena in front of millions of people watching. He didn't want it to happen again in the same way that it did before, which is why he always pulled himself every time he felt something that reminded him of that part of it, but the real hole in that was that They said he started creatine at the start of college And that he never had issues before, but that's not true. He did he he did have cramping at prolific prep att least one known instance. I've heard more than that at prolific Pp And so if there's something underlying that causes cramping when the muscles get going, I'd want to I would feel really scared to draft him if I'm the number two team in the Utah jazz when Cambooz is my alternative. I just I'd have a hard time doing it. So I wonder, Derek, if The jazz could end up doing something crazy and wild and unexpected here. just take boozer number two as I currently have in my mock draft as Bill Simmons has and his prediction on his podcast as well And who knows? They've worked out Michael Brown, Darius A cuff. Wh knows if they could get a haul trade down for one of those guys at their head over heels in love with those guys too. So what do you think? Could the jazz surprise everybody here with all the Peterson doubt at number two? I actually posted a predictive mock on YouTube myself today and I had Boozer too as well. It's just another question mark with Peterson. It's like, you've already got this list. like even if he does end up being one hundred percent You know, again, he's a professional and he works hard and all these things like This just adds to the list in terms of like, well, why is he posturing and positioning himself to get to a very specific team? and Why is that not our team? So I think when you look at all these question marks and again, I have them number one, but If you look at all these question marks and you say, well, the alternative is just this winning machine. He's like an algorithmic, like the best eighteen year old player we've ever seen.'s T tough of a decision really. So yeah, I think the jazz could certainly go that direction and I've predicted them too with Peterson falling to number three It's going to be really fascinating to see the way this plays out though, because nobody really knows what the wizards are going to do U they they've been like very strategic and what they did. likeike Michael Winger went on Ryan Rasilla's podcast the day after The lottery Winger said to Jake Fisher on the record at the night of the lottery. We're open to trading down, but they there's no real like sense league wide of who they favor at number one It's likely AJB Panza, which understandably so a six foot nine shot creator. projects to be better defensively long term with his body and his measurables and his athleticism creator improved as a playmaker. it makes sense why he would be number one. However We don't know for certain who knows? it could be Kid Boozer, right? Like they could take Boozer number one. It wouldn't shock me if they took Boozer. I think any of those three guys are a real possibility and I wouldn't rule out necessarily a trade down either if a team at two or three or wants to move up to number one to assure that they get their guy and if the wizards still feel they can get their guy A little bit lower too It kind of feels like twenty twenty two to me when you know, Jabari Smith Junr. was just penciled in at number one. And it was like Everyone like the snowball got rolling and everyone just went with it. and then Draft Knight comes around and it's Paalo Ban Caro and it's like, well, he was the guy the whole time. And that could very well be the case here. I mean, maybe Darren Peterson's their guy. Maybe they've had their eye on Camboozer for a long time. So you just never know. And I kind of like when they keep the cards close to the vest. giveive us some excitement here in the draft space Well, along those lines, you have AJ third on your board What's the argument against AJ I think as a person that watches a lot of Say based here in Oklahoma City, cover the Thunder I just know how elite you have to be as a mid range scorer. to have that as your shot profile and have a really, really heavy dose of mid range shots I don't know that he is to that level and obviously that's a really hard level to get to. Shehay is the two time MVP. He has like absolutely mastered the mid range, but I'm just a little bit wary of a guy who's shot dy is that mid range heavy desespite having the tools to get to the RM The three point shot is so so, off course it's going to get better. and then defensively You talk about the tools. He's a fluid wing six, nine, seven foot Why are there not more steals? Why are there not more blocks? I just have a few more oncourt questions for AJD Bonsa. And again, All three of these guys are star level guys. I think they all have OMBA upside. So me having him three is not like a detraction overall, but. I do have a few more questions for Dibonsso that I think the other two have answered. Next question here related to the NBA finals and the playoffs we just watched. What draft lesson did you learn from the Kicks winning the title? I think the biggest one was how important functional strength is I mean, you watch You know, Victor Wimenyama, he's unbelievable. We've been very like in the draft space. we've been very, very honed in on height and length and upside and positional size I think strength is just so, so underrated right now. I think we saw it in the Mitchell Robinson, like game wning offensive rebound, right? whereere he just like moved Wimby out of the way. plucks it out of the air just like used all the strength in his arsenal to do that. I think you can see it in the way that Jayalen Brunson is like not knocked off his spots. He's very stocky I mean, Steh on Castle and Dylan Harper. how many times did we see them? Especially in the Western conference fininals, just go through defenders. like put a shoulder down. You know, they completely powered through contact every time they got the opportunity. So I think strength It's just a huge, huge thing right now and we undersell it a little bit when looking at the draft. and I think the players this most carries over to is You know, Cameron Boozer, how rutable he is in the posts Bayne Burryess is another obvious one, his combination of speed and strength. He's a blur in transition, but he's not afraid to put a shoulder in Darry Sake Cup Juni. again really stocky player. C Pete, one of the strongest players, I think I've ever evaluated. So Again, height and length very important. I think it'll continue to be a thing, but Strength.t don't knock strength. It's certainly important at this stage in the NBA. I think it's a really good one. I mean, like like you said at the top with Camboozer, I couldn't help but think about Camboozer anyt timee. I'm watching Carl Anthony Towns in both the West finals, I'm sorry, the East Finals and then the NBA finals. just his the strength Dility attack closeouts and plow through people, especially those first two games of the series against San Antonio in the finals. He was just bigger, stronger and he did a good job holding up against Windby. one on one to. Wy who clearly is you know pretty feeble still needs to get a hell of a lot stronger in order to play and be effective at this highest level. And I think that ties to, I mean, I've interviewed a brought a lot of prospects for for my pod and almost all of them are like the physicality just how tough it is And I think that relates to exactly what you're saying with the strength. Youve got to be able to hold up You got to have some functional strength, whether you weigh in at one hundred eighty five or or two hundred twenty five or two hundred sixty, like you got to be strong and I think physically strong and also just mentally tough to be able to withstand that as well. And I'm curious, Is there any guys that you kind of have concerns about when it comes to the functional strength aspect after watching these playoffs This is another player that I'm pretty high on that you and I have talked about, but Kat Wagler is one that you point to just in terms of the frame, you know, he's just not a strong guy right now. He I don't think he had, you know, the NBA level of strength training prior to this. likeike again, he was a complete mystery box coming in here, like really not known at all in terms of the draft space and he's seen this meteoric rise, but Waggler just has a ho, doesn't have that strength. He relies more on the craft in like a very Halliburton type way, like much more of a shooter shot maker. He's gotten stronger. He's gotten bigger, he's gotten, you know, some more verticality to his game over the last season. but If there's anyone you look at in this top ten that might not hold up with the pure NBA strength, it's probably him. How about L Bberon Phylon? I think sometimes you see him compared to these small guards the people ment E, Jayalen Brunson just won finals MVP. He was amazing But he's also like two hundred fifteen. I don't care is listed at one hundred ninety. He weighs more than that. He's two, ten, two hundred fifteen, two twenty, something along those lines. L Baron Flon weighed one hundred seventy six pounds and he doesn't have those thick legs or upper body. He's not built like Jaalen Brunson. Brunson's a truck When you stand next to him, Fyon' very lean. I think he's always going to be very lean. And that's why with somebody like him. I mean, you look at the list of the guys under under one hundred eighty pounds to get heavy playoffs. it's very. short lists And so with Fhylon, despite all his skill offensively I I get some concerns there, man and I'm a big fan of F one Totally agree. And the fact that he didn't add much weight either. like this is a guy that got back from his freshman season. like this had to be the number one thing was like put on that functional strength, like use that and put on weight and I think he added four pounds from year one to year two. So Not super ideal, like you said and another guy who relies on craft and that can be a good thing having that kind of Titchy stuff in your back pocket, but Certainly a player I would be a little worried about in terms of like post season physicality I mean, this is why like for some of the bigs like like Hanna Steinbach. I mean, when he when he w in at two hundred forty eight sevenenty two wingspand, you're like, oh, Wow. good good to see because I didn't know he'd be that heavier. likeike even he's out of the draft. Luigi Suuego is going to Villanova. He'll be in next year's draft to eighty nine Oh my go. Like you like to see that from from some of these bs when it comes to projecting to the next level. or like a Marz Johnson, type two hundred fifty, six nine, seventy four wingspan, that dude's functionally strong And I'm not trust his ability to defend multiple positions. I think for me, Derek, I mean, the strength, toughness, physicality aspect is one of them The other one for me is just straight up of the pull up jumper We see it in these playoffs, just the The need just to be able to have a floater in the lane, the clutch shot Brunson hit down the stretch. to be ableility to pull up for mid range or pull up from three point range in the series between the Spurs and the Kicks on shots taken off the dribble outside of the restricted area in the fourth quarter Brunson took twenty five shots. He made forty four percent of them. The Spurs is a team took forty two shots made only thirty one percent of them when be made twenty nine percent of his fourteen Fox made twenty nine percent of his fourteen. Harper made half of his six Castle made only one of his six and Non Brunson Nicks made only nineteen percent of their twenty one shots. So just the this was one of the differences in what was five really close games Jrhonsson Hit shots down the stretch. Dereren Fox did not. Wendby could not create Castle and Harper were very inconsistent And so I think that's one of the things I'm thinking about like who are the the best whole whole lot shooters in these in clock situations that a lane to potentially grow into being a star at the next level I think the good news on that front is that this class has a lot of really talented off the dribble shooters. I mean, you look across even just the top tier like Darren Peterson, AJD Bonda obviously can both get their shot off the dribble. Darius Acuff, one of the best in the world at that at his age group. And then Even in some of these like late first guards like Bennett Sturts, really good in the pick and roll can create off the dribble. Christian Anderson, one of my favorite propects this class. Most of his shot diet was off the dribble One of the best shooters in this class and then when you fold in the fact that he can playmake as well, I think it makes him really dangerous. So This guard group can really, really shoot it. They can really shoot off the dribble as well. So yeah, I think that's great for just the post season and basketball in general All right, let's go through some of the prospects starting with the guys on the top four they did in clutch time. This is according to synergy Sports, clutch time within five points in the last five minutes of the game, shots taken outside of their shricted area off the dribble. Boozer was six of eleven Peterson was three or four Wilson was one for four. What do you think AJD Bazza was? Oh man, is it high volume It's nine shots. only nine. So we're talking low low volume. How many of those nine do you think you made I'll than time He made zero Zero Isn't that craz over for nine last five minutes within five points clutch time. Some of the guards Acf seven for seventeen, Flemings, nine for sixteen Waggler. four for eighteen Bures twow for five Von Six for fifteen, Christian Anderson, six for sixteen. O'Corey, six for seventeen Sts. eight for thirty three Very high volume, the highest volume of all these guys only eight makes tough diet for him at the college level. But any takeaways, I mean, we're talking with very small samples here, but hearing those numbers, I'm curious, anything stand out to you I don't take a ton of soock, especially in the freshman numbers of like I mean you're a freshman, like that's the hardest shot in basketball to like will your team to a win to like be the guysy. So like I wouldn't dock them like a ton. Even AJD Bond so like again, it's pretty low volume, but like It kind of stands out to me that there's some dudes. like there were a lot of freshmen that like, they wanted the ball in their hand late. like their head coaches wanted them taking those shots. like I think that's kind of impressive, especially for the lower volume guys. like Sturts maybe a little tougher, probablyably should add a few more makes in there as, you know, a super senior, but Yeah, I mean, there's some guys in this class that you just want taking that shot. and I think At the NBA level, you plug them into a more role player I think that makes a lot of sense. So yeah, there's some really, really, really good off the dribble creators there are and And I think to your point earlier, though about Peterson. You don't think he's elite elite from the mid range. Um Oh for nine. And it's only eight nine shots. The next nine he might make eight of them, right? So so who knows there, but It's interesting to me as well, boozer six for eleven. Boozer a lot of those are hook shots. So like when I say shots taken outside the restricted area off the dribble over the last five minutes in clutch time. That includes floaters hook shots, pull up toos, pull up threes, self created shots and boozer a lot of those. I think I think like eight of the eleven shots. if I remember correctly were, you know, him kind of Backing down a little bit sometimes from the perimeter, turning his back and getting into a hookhot me like people view that sometimes as a negative with him. I'm like, I don't know, it's just another tool He doesn't even have the typical pull up to pointer yet. He doesn't use that shot too often at all. But I think a guy that has become gone from kind of an ify shooter early in high school to an elite shooter late in high school and into college, I trust this guy to eventually have a two dribble mid range pull up, that feels like an easy developmental path for him to go down. The fact he also has the ability to bruise and go back to the basket and go to you know a shot from a hook shot over the right shoulder or the left shoulder This guy's got a lot of tools, man, a lot of ways that he can beat you any compl make out of it, by the way Yeah, I mean, people go to the like, oh, he's not going to be able to bullyball at the NBA level. likeike firstly, I'm not so sure about that. If you don't double him like he might be able to With the strength advantage, you'll probably be able to bully some players at the NBA level, but also like everything you just talked about great. alsoso fold in the fact that he's going to make the right play if they do double him. and he's one of the best passers in this class and he processes the game at an elite level like We're looking at a better offensive player than is being billed right now with Cambooer. likeike he is a genuine you know, three level offensive talent, whether it's scoring the ball, passing the ball, rebounding, like whatever He's a talent man We just got some breaking news, It's not the biggest news, but it is breaking news. I don't mean to tease you too hard here Siago Switter is goingoing to the Chicago Bulls. Shean Sharney report the B analyzing the hiring of former Blazers intern head coach Tiago Splitter takaking over for Billy Donovan. I think this is A good hire. I mean, he did a good job in Portland last year. Carly the Blazers are. are going to be cheaper here with their head coach higher. I think a lot of Blazers fans view that as a as a negative thing. However, you know, the other other team that Tom Dunan owns just won the Stanley Cup finals with their head coach that who was was once hired as a cheap coach around eight years ago when Brenda Moore was hired by the Carolina Hurricanes, a legendary player in their franchise I look forward to seeing what Portland does considering the success of the hurricanes, but for the Chicago Bulls Splitter was damn good last year. I mean, he took over under adverse circumstances with Phillips involved in the gambling scandal Cicago Here we go. I mean, good opportunity with a good young team in the fourth pick in of drafts Yeah. I mean, I thought Tiago earned at least a head coaching opportunity. So I'm excited for the Bowls in the sense that again, the fourth pick, you know, you're likely getting Caleb Wilson pick as well where you're going to get another really good player. So he's going to have some stuff to work with. you know, Josh Gitty watched a lot of him with Oklahoma City Not maybe a player that you're going to have like long, long term, but certainly a player that can help those young guys get better. I think he did that with the Thunder. So there's some super interesting pieces in Chicago, certainly We'll be right back Evening by his remorse Buy a new car I'll be moving in Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice? I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carbana. Limitations exlusions may apply S here sevay return policy, Carbana d All right, let's talk about second round sleepers in the twenty twenty six NBA draft. Derek, you want to start us off? I will. I can't wait to talk about Bruce Thornton out of Ohio state, Kevin S foot guard. He has a six six wingspan I just think he is one of the most legitimate scores of the basketball in the class Never dipped below double digit scoring in his four seasons. He scored twenty one hundred career points Per synergy, Thornton ranks excellent, which is the best available for non synergy users As the pick and roll handler in transition spotting up coming off screen in isolation on miscellaneous plays and even posting up as a guar, like this dude can score The basketball He shot seventy five percent at the rim and he didn't dunk the ball one time, which I know people are going to say, okay It's not a vertical athlete Th out of every four shots that he was throwing up were going in. Like that's elite no matter how you slice it. And then I just like his combination of non traditional athletic tools. likeike we talk earlier about strength Super stocky, very strong. He's also got speed and balance and good footwork. It's got a low center of gravity. I think we saw some of those guys in the NBA finals succeed. So Bruce Thorton, he's a player. I just I don't quite know what I'm missing with him I feel the same way as you. I mean, he would be on my list if you didn't snatch him because I just think this dude's a good player. He's going to be a rotation guy at worse. his scoring ability is too good. He's, you know, even though he's smaller, he's so tough. two hundred and twenty three pounds a long wingspan for a six foot guy. I just I feel like he's a really good bet to be a quality rotation player at worst. And not only that he's a solid playmaker as well. He's not necessarily like a savant asser By any means, but he's a connector. He can deliver the ball accurately G me giveive me Bruce Thorne, especially given everything that we saw with the importance of pull up shooting. that Bruce Thorton as a senior, fifty three percent on pull up toos, thirty four percent on pull up threes. fifty nine percent on floaters has arguably the best floater in this year's draft class. He's just a bucket man. He's got he's got all the tools on the offensive end of the floor And you talk about some of those ancillary skills too, like He's turn over averse. Like you said, he's not just like the highest level passer, but he's not going to like turn you over to the point you're losing games inccredible rebounder for his size. I mean, he's six foot. I think it was like over five per game, which is unbelievable. and then scrappy defender, workable as a shooter Again, I I'm like you, I just think he's a rotational level guard. I mean, we saw shorter players like Jalen Brunson obviously is in his like one of one ninety ninth percentile for shorter players, but like Jose say Alvorado is a shorter player that close the biggest game of the entire NBA season so like I think there's room in the NBA for Bruce Thornton out of Ohio State My first one Virginia Center, Uana on Yeno U I just love this guy. I mean, I think at two hundred and thirty seven pounds, you wish he was around, you know, ten, fifteen pounds heavier, but seven foot five wingspan. We saw what he did in the ACC tournament over three games. He had twenty one blocks. nine of those We're against Camboozer U So O Yeno to me is just one of these guys where he isn't necessarily going to be a very switchable defender. he can be a little bit plotting. He needs to improve there. but as a rim protector two point nine blocks per game cause major issues for Camboozer And then offensively He's just a typical big who can set hard screens roll hard to the rim. He made sixty nine percent of his shots as a senior. He's a solid decision maker as a passer passer positive assistant turnover ratio and I think the intriguing thing to me when I think about these second round sleepers is the perimeter flashes we saw from him. He entered college as a freshman at Kentucky, transferred to Kansas State and then to Virginia. and he didn't have a shot at the beginning of college. But over his final two years, he made seventy four percent of his free throws And then he attended thirty six threes as a senior and he made ten of them. So It's not like a high volume, but it hints at that there's something there potentially with his shot to at least be a thirty four percent guy on stand stillill three pointers and that's a valuable piece on top of everything else that he offers. So Aensso is one of my first second round sleepers here This is like the definition of a sleeper because if he hits, like, I think he's going to be pretty incredible and he'll be a guy that you can keep on the floor a long time perer forty just looked up six point three blocks per game. Again, like fifty of those were against Cambooer who like we both think is really talented and great. Yeah, I think the perimeter flashes could be real like the free throw numbers are good again a fine decision maker, like you're not really going to be putting the ball in his hands or anything, but like He's not going to play you out of the game. likeike I think this is again, the definition of a sleeper and especially as the NIL is kind of thinned out the second round. like why not bet on a guy who's going to be able to potentially protect the rim, do big stuff and may even have a little bit more in his bag too Who's your next sleeper My next one is Alex Caravan. I know it's a guy you're very familiar with. Had him on the podcast. six foot eight forward out of Uukon I would just sum him up as a winner, like one two titles with the Huskies played for another I mean, you saw it in the past to Braill and Mullinenss like that is just unbelievable levels of connectivity. big, he can shoot Again, the connective passing he just kind of helps offense to flow Maybe the defense needs to get a little better, but he does have some like fun shot blocking stuff. so Yeah, Alex Caraban is just a guy that I think I'm going to bet on nine times out of ten in terms of the competitive traits, his compete level, the smarts, like you talk about high feel. I think Alex Caravan is one of the highest field players in the class like per capita. So yeah, he's just a guy that I'm willing to bet on I think he's going to go in the second round, but I've had him in the first round and a few mocks. and every time I do it, people are like What's with your love for cararavan? He's not going to go in the first time. like I don't know Maybe all it takes is one team. I just think this guy is so much high skill and feel. He's a winner. likeike you said. He's just a winner through and through the comparisons I have on screen for him, Ryan Anderson and Robbie Hummel I don't love either of those Dud do you have a better comp for Alex Careriban at the NBA level think so. I will say, I feel like he just feels like a Celtic and you're like, whyy do they have three of these guys that are all good? And he just like plugs in and is good immediately? Like that's what he feels like to me. Yeah. maybe maybe if he does end up going first round, twenty seven to Boston Uh I could see that for sure, especially if they're going to trade a Sam House or elsewhere and we'll see what happens with Boston this off season. It be very interesting. I think with Cariban's defense as well, like defense is not just being a lockdown on ball guy. defeense is being in the right position rotating It's boxing out, it's competing on the boards. it's communicating rotations and knowing when to switch and and when not to switch. it's and that's those are the things Cariban does at a really, really, really high level. And so I just think he does does all those those all those like high level role player things that lead to winning basketball and it did lead to winning basketball at UCon. And so I feel I feel really good about him as being a successful NBA player at the next level. My next sleeper here Louis Villegard, Ryan Conwell, Conwell. I don't think he's necessarily a lot But I think if he hits, he's going to be a really good player and the main thing I really like about him is the fact that at two hundred and fifteen pounds he's kind of a stocky strong guard very physical at rim finisher and you know, he gets to the rim at will, he can like be a little bit more finesse, but he can also be really powerful on his drives to the rim and then as a as a shot creator He's got a diverse skill set. He made forty one percent of his kitchen shoot threerees this past season made thirty two percent of his threes off the dribble, which isn't the highest amount, but given the degree of difficulty back And what's really interesting to me with him is the fact that he didn't really take mid range much at the college level. This is in part, as we see with a lot of college athletes playing in an analytical style. They're taking Rim and threes, but he did make eleven of his eighteen mid range jumpers And so I wonder if there's something there perhaps with him is this end of clock scorer potentially, whether it's just as a spark plug off the bench or in the dream scenario, he hits and becomes a starter level player who's, you know, on a path to be, you know, All stars. I don't think he's going to be an all star. I think he's more in the Norm Powell category, but Norm Powell made an all star team Right? That's my point here. I think there's that path for him and he rebounds too. and he's a solid passer I like Carnwow, man. I think he's a bit overlooked in this draft class Conwell was super interesting because like I'm sure just like me, you tuned into Louisville a lot to watch Michael Brown this year. And like every time I watched Louisville, he was popping. It was like Conwell can play. Like every single time you tune into a Louisville game, he's hitting shots He's showing that toughness. likeike again, you talk about two hundred and fifteen pounds like. Maybe a little undersized for a two guard, but Two fifteen, longer arms. gritty likeike I think he checks a lot a lot of boxes in terms of an off guuard and I think the three point percentages stand to go up as well. Like the spaced out NBA helps guys like this exactly so much more in terms of getting to the rim, but also just having the space to shoot the three ball. So I like Carnwell a lot as well Yeah, he's I think you're right. likeike he's definitely undersized to be a two guard. so he needs to be more of a a one in the NBA, but if I'm up If I'm a team that doesn't need a guard in the first round. like I'm passing on Christian Anderson and the Maron Fylon and Bennet Sturz and all those guys, but If I also have an early midse round pick, Conwell would be one of those guys that I'd be like, all right, well we'll take a shot on a guard here and see possibly what happens with whatever he turnurns him to at the NBA level. Wh's I think Jaden Bradley's another guy on that list as well Emmanuel Sharp. There's Braden Smith. There's it's funny how deep this class is really with options. the guard spot at each level in the top ten in the ten to thirty range and then thirty to fifty. There's a lot of them. So it's going to be very interesting to see where these guys end up falling. who who could slip and also how it affects the trademark because there's so many of them There's only so many spots too. It's like Even at the top, there's all these different guards like Kingsston Flemings, Bradon Burryess, Michael Brown junr. There's only so many spots of guys who want like elite blue chip point guards. then you get to that middle section where it's like you talked about Fhy Long, Christian Anderson Bennet Seurts There's so many, so many teams that you know, maybe even need a guy that's not necessarily a projected starter, but six man type guy and then you go a step further and it's like, well, how many want to take a bet on the Braiden Smiths of the world And Jacobi Gillespie players like this like There are so many guards in this class It's going to be unbelievable to see how it shakes out because I think we're kind of lookingooking at an era where like everybody has an established guard right now. Like there's not a lot of teams out there that need one and Maybe need multiple so Super, super interesting. It's just chock full and I'm excited to see where they land Who'ses next l, aregulist, Derek Next one, Tyler Nickel out of Vander Belt. six foot seven wing Anybody that takes fourteen threes per one hundred possessions just like goes on my list. I'm like, I'll come back to you. I'll see if you can do anything else. And the answer to that question for Tyler Nickel is maybe I dug more into his game. He has an insanely weird shot profile He took thirty six shots at the rim in thirty six games three hundred and eleven jumpers eight and a half per game. So he was like Don't even care about getting to the rim. I'm just gonna to shoot the jumper And that's like just weird enough for me to be into it. I'm like fine, let's just play on the perimeter. let's bein the defense that way. like Let's just shoot the crap out of the ball He's an elite shooting prospect. anyyway you slice it, forty percent on just insane volume fifty two percent on unguarded catch and shoot Threes again. Another player that I think the spaced out NBA is going to help a lot More importantly, he can shoot legitimately off movement at six seven, which is just like not often seen for a player his size. So Again, I'm kind of just willing to bet on a shooter of this caliber, especially with the way that the NIL has kind of thinned out the second round. It's like Let's just see if this guy is something let's he's obviously going to be able to hit his threes Maybe he can develop a little bit more as like a team defender, like we talked about with Caravan add some of those ancillary skills and then again, obviously he's going to have the floor stretching part nailed down. He's a special shooter, man. I mean, the variety of plays Vanderbilt used him in off screens, pin downs flares and just simple relocations where he's feeling the rotation of the defense and findinding the open spots. I mean, there's there's definitely a path for him to have a long career. as a three point shooting specialist who can cut like he'll have to screen and do some of this other role player stuff and become a solid offender to your point. But I like him. I like him for sure. And I would have surprised me one bit if we see him in a rotation big minutes on a rookie scaledale. It's just one of the true steals of the second round. I think similar thought process when it comes to shot making for my for our final one here of second round sleepers I'm going to go with Richie Saunders from BYU. I know he tours ACL to end the season at BYU. so he'll likely miss the start of his NBA career and come back early on in the season, but its six five, six nine wingspan Dude it' just an absolute bucket getter as a shooter But he's not just a specialist goodood shot creator decisions, the way he attacks closeouts and passes fluidly off the ball and hits these like crazy offhand layouts at the rim. he just the motor he plays with is just So contagious like these just fold sprints up the floor and transition. crashing the glass on offense. I can just seeee him being a guy who is playing heavy minutes in the playoffs. just one of those guys that a coach canan't take off the floor because he's got the shot is get the functional dribble And he just takes so much pride and plays with so much heart on the defensive end of the floor that I don't care he's going to be twenty five as a rookie. It doesn't matter to me Dude has all the tools you want for want in a high level role player in the NBA He's a mad manan, dude. I don't know if there's a game that he played for BYU where he wasn't like diving on the floor and doing all the gritty in the trenches stuff that you talk about, He's like a total lunatic in the best way. Like I think That's like what you want out of this type of player You talk about elite shooter, he absolutely fits into that as well I really like how littleittle he needs the ball and how little he eats up on ball reps to like really make an impact offensively. like shooting plays into that, but also You know, attacking closeouts, he's just very quick with everything. He's very decisive talk about the connective passing. It's all in these kind of little in between moments. So Yeah I'm totally with you on Richie Saunders. I've seen some of the you know, bigger mock draft people have them in the first, notot necessarily in terms of mocks, but like On their board, it's like, let's just bet on this guy at, you know, twenty eight thirty one. likeike it doesn't matter. likeike you said, he's going to be old for a rookie, but Just feels like a very pluggable player in a lot of different levels I interviewed him for my podcast and that segment will be coming right up, talking to Richie Saunders, and it was funny I asked them, what's the thing you're most looking forward to when you're back on the floor, he's like, Oh man, I just can't wait to put a swim move on on a defender and crash crash the boards. It's like Yes. He's a little That's the He really is. That's the Richie Saunders I love That really is the Richie Saunders experience. just he is Nonstop man. I just dont I just don't see how he fails. I really don't. I had him I had him ranked in a similar range last year. I knew he wasn't leaving BYU after his junior season. I knew he was going to finish out. but I had to have him on of my board a year ago And u Yeah, I just it's just great to see him finally going to be entering the NBA. It's really crazy the way it ended though The four years of BYU And then he tears his ACL and Now he's going to deal with that recovery, but that doesn't it doesn't change by evaluation of him. It's just an ACL. you know what I mean? These are reallyy, nilly not a big deal nowadays. selfishly again, based here in Oklahoma City covering the Thunder thirty seventh pick. They're not shy of like the red shirt year. they like getting guys in the program and like letting them develop like Thunder if you're listening, draft Richie Soaundners, he'd be a fun cover for me definitely would be and he would fit that rotation very, very well. He'd make some of the more expensive guys potentially traadable as well I would think at some point I didn't plan to ask you this, but last question, Derek Okay, see. How you feeling after watching the spurs get beaten five Was there a PCU who was like Aere you happy about it No, no, I think the Spurs far and away like earned the Western conference finals. they were unbelievable Victor Wimenam is like one of the most impactful players I've ever seen. I was kind of just in awe the whole time. It wasn't as much like Oh, they shouldn't be here this fast. It was like they're a legitimate basketball team. You weren't Hey Won It now. Not even not even apart. A little bit I'm too much of a I'm too much of a basketball purist to hate wasash man. It was it was so much fun I saw a video. someomeone posted on X after like it was the morning after the spurs lost and it was Jet homeolgrid in a car rolling out his window and he's justed' ready to out it. One of the top comments of that was like we take Chet too seriously. and I agree like we need to look at Chet a little less seriously Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't think he's that serious at all.s he's a big goofy goober. that's for sure. But Chat it is kind of something else so that Weemby Second places, man. It just continues. a lot of second places for Wby you sixteen U nineteen, M ninety two, the Olympics. And now The NBA Um is going to get one. the one year that he was on a team that won the championship, the twenty one twenty two season. He didn't play He He got hurt during the postseason. and didn't play in the final that year. Um, So hey, like he's He's got to experience the taste of winning at some point, but That's the thing, man, like it's just Lndby's going to be back Like he'll be back in the finals But you never know You never know And that's the scary part where if I'm a Spurs fan Like just continuing to think about it after this weekend. It's like, you were in it. You had a lead, a double digit lead in all five games And you lose four to one, it truly is a eight a missed opportunity And that's I just would have a hard time getting over that if I'm a Spurs fan I'm worried that this like second place chip on Victor Wiminama's shoulder is creating a monster. Like what's going to happen if he really does add to his game and like takes all of this very personally and then in two to three years it's just like greatest player we've ever seen Barnun. I'm a little worried that like he's going to come out of this like what's what's next after the monks? L who's he going to train with now? I'm scared of what he can become still I mean, we might see forty and twenty a lot more frequently Right That was kind of a taste of what could be that game one against Oklahoma City And I think with him it's just to me like the big thing is you you see the way his numbers decline. in games efficiency wise as a shooter and as even a free throw shooter the conditioning aspect. So in the series and the finals He shot sixty eight percent on two pointers in the first quarter ten to twenty two percent in the second quarter sixty three percent in the third quarter and the thirty six percent in the fourth quarter Three pointers first through fourth quarters. thirty three, twenty two, thirty one, twenty five free throws eighty six eighty, eighty six sev eight two So there's the decline in the second and fourth quarters all of the five NBA finals games. and so he needs to figure out the conditioning aspect I don't know if that's something that is in his control or is just something the nature of his crazy seven foot seven frame that he just he's this is going to be part of the experience that they're always going to have to manage his minutes But that's definitely inevitably it relates to what we talked about earlier, the functional strength aspect. at the top of the show. the physicality, the toughness of the post season, being able to withstand that when you're playing heavier minutes as a guy who played twenty nine minutes per a game during the regular season. they were managing him the whole year. And then in the postseason, he needs to play high thirties into the forties. Can he handle that? That's going to be the key, I think, above all else is the conditioning aspect of Victor I think that plays into the experience too. Like when you think of playoff experience, people think of like X's and O's and like the situations, like the final shot, but like Managing your fatigue is like a big one that players talk about in terms of like O season and experience, knowing what it means to get to the finals and how to manage your body I think he'll figure some of that out. I think some of it, like we talked about, just going to have to get more functionally strong, especially You know, if he's still battling these bigger bodies like Carl Anthony Towns. I think The unique position the Spurs are in now is like get him someone outside of Luke Cornet. that can play alongside him. They can play in reserve of him that is very functionally strong. I think the Thunder to kind of tie this together have done a great job of that with Chad Homgren. Isaiah Hartenstein is that player. He can bang with you know, the big interior players You can also play in reserve and be that five. And I think the Spurs could really, really use a player like that I don't know if it's going to be there at pick number twenty. Maybe they can go up, mayaybe they can find that on the trade market, but it'll be super important for Wendby's development and just skill level as a whole. I think that's spot on Derek. They got to find another big And whether it's it's having somebody who plays next to Victor more often or somebody that comes off the bench plays only like a handful of minutes per game with him I think having front court versatility is of the utmost importance in the NBA nowadays. And I know the Kicks just won the finals with typically Kat or Mitchell Robinson being on the floor, not both of them, but the fact is is that If Mic brrow needed to could play both of those bigs. He could have cat at the four as a spacer and Mitchell Robinson as the interior guy. OKC last year with all their front court versatility with Chet and Hartenstein or or just one of them and then Boston the year prior with all the guys that they had Poring us didn't play a lot in the finals, but to get there having Poringus having Al Horford, having depth at the in the front court is very, very important and helps dictate the way in which you can play and changes the way the other team plays and If you can pull the small ball, you know card out as well. OG and and Oi at the five, that's a great tool to have as well. And so I think having lineup versatility is so vital and that's one of the things that felt like the Spurs perhaps didn't quite have in comparison to the New York Kicks, with their line ofp configurations they were able to throw out there I'll also say not to segue this into a totally different thing, but He's just not a shot creator right now, Victor Wimen Yama Dylan Harper is unbelievable. I mean, this guy at twenty years old, I was watching him hit step backack threes with thirty seconds left in the game in Oklahoma City just like tearing fans apart on Oklahoma City's home floor. like That'll be a big part of this too is like him being the shot creator, maybe being able to set up you know, Victor Womanyama a little better. like He's a legit player and like we touched on the playing time stuff. like There's no way he doesn't start next year and there's probably no way he doesn't take like a legitimate star lef. likeike he's that level of player Tell me this, Derek. for sometimes when when like you see people saying, well, of course they have to have Fx because Harper's not much of a passer or a playmaker. He's more of a scorer What do you say about that? Was this more role driven for Harper? Does he have more playmaking in him that he showed at Rutgers in your opinion I think he strictly has more playmaking juice than he shoulded. I will also say When you can score like this, the passing comes a lot easier. I think we've seen that with Shay Cichche is not just like an S tier playmaker like Aniicka Yokich or a Lukca Donchich But the way that he can score the ball opens up passing opportunities a lot more in the same way that Dyan Harper's going to be able to do that. He's also going to have this seven five like monk fueled guy waiting in the pace. So like I think the playmaking is a little bit overblown. I think he's just a really stellar player. He obviously has fuel for the game and he obviously has that kind of X factor in terms of what he did this post season. So I think he's going to be totally fine on a lot of different fronts. Yeah, I do too. I look forward to seeing what the Spurs do. It could be absolutely crazy off season starting in eight days. withith the NBA drafts. People can check out your stuff over at Sports Illustrator and your amazing YouTube page, Derek Parker. This is Derk Parker. Thank you so much for joining me today, man. Thanks Derek I appreciate it. All right, big thank you again to Derek for joining me coming up. We got Richie Saunders A right, joining me now with the BYU Cgers. It is Richie Saunders, Richie, how are you I'm good, man, happy be here I'm excited to talk with you, man. You You've been one of my favorite draft prospects, even going back the last year, I knew you weren't leaving BYU after your junior year, but I had you on my board. I was like Richie Sauers first round pick. He's first round or quality player. I just had to get get it in there one year before you were going to be entering the NBA draft. Butith that said, even though you spent four years at BYU, there's plenty of listeners of this podcast that They'll watch a lot of college basketball. So for those people, what's the Richie Saunders scouting report Yeah, I mean, they're going they're going to learn quickly, but I just put my whole heart and soul into this game. I love playing basketball and I love And doing the things the impact winning I shoot the ball, but You know, I learn I know how to get offensive rebounds on a guard and I'm honestly just really excited to get this next level. one, be able to hoop a, but two, just be able to just grow and I think I can bring a lot of experience and The details is where is where I live and I love I mean your six foot five, six nine wingspan measured very well with with length and size at the NBA draft combine. you mentioned your motor I mean, dude that's the thing about youo man. L obviously the shooting and all of that, but like dives on the floor, the sprints up the floor in transition crrashing the glass, like you constantly are moving In the half court on offense, you're the type of guy that like a defense is always going to have to be concerned about whether you're cutting or relocating beyond the arc and never mind on defense, just the effort you put in off the ball. Is this effort level something that you've always had since you were a little kid playing basketball or is this something you learned over time ask you a question. I u I mean As far as I remember, I just I I don't know. I just that's the only way I gotght to do is just play hard But I do remember in high school watching a My high school my first high school coach, He showed us a video of this I can't I wish I had his name. I just remember vividly this guy at Duke who He wasn't the most He wasn't the tallest, he wasn't the quickest But for four years at Duke, he figured out how to start how to be on that floor As you remember vividly this one of him diving just for a random loose ball at half court and grabbing it and throwing it across and saving the ball And I think something in there As I've been thinking about this a little bit lately, like That came back to my mind of Seeing that clip And u and just seeing how hard that dude played and how it got him regardless of all the other noise and all the other stuff that was going on and got them on the floor and how That was how he impacted Winningon kind of inspired me. and that's just what I want people to take out of my game is is it doesn't matter Where you're from whatever where you're measureuring at or whatever and you can just go in put your whole heart into this game and and have a great impact on the game because of that I mean, you were What? like a three star recruit or what were you ranked out of high school? I think I had a four star for like two weeks, but for some reason. I mean, as a fifteen year old or whatever, that was tough to hear. I was like, why don't to go away? But yeah, I mean literally I think the highest I got was like one hundred one in the in the some of those rankings or whatever but You know, I just grew the chip on my shoulder and u I mean, now I don't really I don't really care about I stuff at all. It's I mean, like I'm try to hoop and trying to U Once you get on the floor, none those numbers matter, but one hundred percent, coming out of high school, was I was a three star. I'm just trying to think of who that player could have been because it's like Shane Badtier camees to mind for me. John Shire, the current Duqu K coach. I know he was a hustle. not sure Is any either of those? don' I don't even want to on the library take your guest I literally can see the clip vividly of him. Is it Grayson Allen? Was he a white guy? Grayson All was? It wasn't Grayson Allen, but it was it was a white guy, but o it was John Ser not completely u just horizontal in the air, just sacrificing his body. Yeah I mean, that that is what you saw under. I mean, obviously like you're not just a hustler. That's not why you're going to get drafted. You're also a shooter. Last two years of BYU, you made eighty one percent of your free throws, forty one percent of your threes up from seventy percent your first two years at BYU and thirty five percent from three. What was the difference between your gears as an underclassman and your years as a Upperclasspen. whyy did that improvement happen? Was it something mechanical that you changed in your shot Um mechanically no Oh I think I think just the experience is a real thing and having to go from high school to Um, to being in stadium pack full of people and having to handle all that pressure and stuff like I think U I just think I obviously got got used to it in But like I think I just learned how to handle handle all that pressure better, but You know, I mean, I really appreciated the different I had two different college coaches and really appreciate the different things that they taught me, but u I did appreciate how My KY helped get me into my spots to where I've been effective my whole life and just his way to help me get into those spots was something that One of those reasons why I'm here Were you an elite shooter in high school I was. I'd like I use a shot Over forty eight percent from three in high school or my s volume too. I mean, I wonder, I mean, like when I look at that, I mean, like I imagine two years off, you know, from the court. It's a real mmission, right? Yeah. It's a real doal. Yeah. that must play a factor in terms of getting back into the rhythm. going from high school to college. It's not like high school to college right away. It's high school two years away from the court full time playing good bit of games and then to college Yeah, I mean, those were two years for my mental for whatever strong word you want to use, but I'm mentally stronger because of those two years. and I think that played an incredibly huge role in why I'm here. and why like why I believe I can make a great impact on at the next level, but Um yeah, I mean, it is it's different when your whole focus is not basketball, you know, and I chose to do that, chose to step away for two years and Oh you know, learns incredibly all the life lessons and all the off course stuff, but Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, it's it's different. you're not focused, you're not with the strength conditioning codach not with your your PD, your player development codaches, like you're you're not. so, um, It did definitely take take some time to get back into it. From those two years I know you do your mission in Seattle, Washington, right? Yeah From those two years there in Seattle, what's what's an experience you had that made that type of impression and taught you a lesson in life that you'll always have with you Yeah, I mean, other than just like the general like, Oh met people that changed my life and all that kind of stuff. But I will say You have to really choose to get out of bed Especially like honestly, so I was called to Madagascar. I wanted to be in Madagascar, my heart wanted to be there I didn't even bring a jacket because I was focused on prepping for Madagascar, not even being in Seattle. And so Uh during COVID that was a reason the change happened, but U Every day making the choice to get out of bed. So you Wake up at six thirty. I was up an hour earlier running hills in Seattle and dragging the guy I was with. sleeping in the car and All parking the car at the top of the hill, and I would just be running. I would run and justust really choosing to make that choice to put in the effort to get better And then Oh I mean, just knowing that I was going to face I was going to be soaking wet all day the rain is No joke there. But honestly, like, I mean Those are some of those those character building moments for me of having to choose to get up earlier get my work in. Kning that I was going to be uncomfortable all day and I was going to have to get out of my comfort zone all day and Yeah, I mean, I look back with a lot of fondness for What that taught me? Just the daily grind and loveving the grind And like I know BYU I had read was what are your dreams your whole life to go to BYU. And you go there, you spend two years there. Mark Mark Pope, your head coach, leaves to go to Kentucky and you actually entered the transfer portal decided to stay. Kevin Young gets hired straight from the Phoenix Suns. What was Kevin Young's pitch to you? and how did his NBA style unlock, you know, what happened those next two years Yeah. Now, first off, like I just have nothing but gratitude for Coach Pop and he's an incredible coach. grateful for what you taught me. but Um You know, like pitch to me was really twofold I'm going to help you become a better close out player help you become a a become well, he's going to help you become an elite closeout player. So anytime somebody's running at you close up possession And then two I'm going to help you become Delete A comoming off ball coming off of off ball screens and reading the defense And Esentially like taking that and him explaining how he was going to do that coming from his background was wasn't I mean, it was really hard to pass up on. So I mean, that's that's where I wanted I want to have a long career in the NBA And he essentially helped a great build on the build and help create a great foundation to move into this next level I mean it's funny you mention the closeouts. that's one of the things I really like about your game in my scuttered report ofiew I wrote, Decisive shot creator. Saunders attacks closeouts with confidence and finishes from the close mid range area with incredible touch on floaters, runners, and offhand layups. And he operates with equal fluidity as a passer, making proper reads to find teammates within the flow of the offense And so much of that for you comes within the flow of the offense, attacking a close out, second side opportunities And for you, that that seems to be like you definitely took those lessons and ran with them on the court, right? I mean spent a lot of time working on those things, but Yeah. I mean, so much gratitude for for that staff. I mean they were incredible. All NBA focused and E, they run that program, like it's an MBA program You mentioned earlier how you Like you don't know how to play anyither way. You've always played hard. What was your first encounter with basketball and who first introduced you to it Yeah. So my dad he played basketball at UC Davis Um And so him and One of my sisters O and on two of my sisters, but u I had a sister that played A Juo here in Utah, but You know, it was it was early mornings in the gym combination with my sister and just with my dad, but four hundred and forty five in the gym is where I built my career You know, it's u We did that when I was nine, we started and you know, honestly like that's that's what I did for a decade and I mean, that's just like what I again, I already said it, but just like But you work hard, consistently just stuff happens and that's just like, principles that I've built my life on and Um, I mean, those were the early days of I remember one time when I was just crying on the court with my dad and my dad it was again five AM. so my dad was probably like what is this kid doing crying? but I couldn't make a shot U but my dad was really good in those moments of teaching me of seeing the whole picture and seeing the whole thing as a career as a whole and Um yeah, lot of gratitude in just fondness of looking back at those early times with all this work you've put in How crushing and what was the feeling When you did tear your ACL and then ended your college career at PYU Yeah, I mean, it was's no words to express how hard that was initially You know it's a Yeah, I'm like why why did this happen have done All I needed to do to Be to to avoid this But yeah, I mean, that's just life There's a lot more stuff going on in the world than than rehabbving an ACO. I'm going to be able to hooope and not that long. And so it's like, Like I'm going to be good. But right in that moment of was just like, man, is this it? Is this how it's gonna to end And you know, I think like that was essentially like right my initial thoughts You know, I I'm married, u My wife Tier, we said together, we said, like how long are we going to be sad for ourselves So we said two days So F hours came and went and then we were just like, let's go attack this thing We're going tack this thing and do what we've done before, just go do this thing We're gonna le no stone on times and findind every single additive to help with this this rehab and That's what we've done You know, big lessons of controlling what you can control and Like I'm I'm ready to come out this better and where I was before. I mean, the life gives you challenges sometimes, and you can often get better from them if you approach it with the right mindset and it seems like you and your wife you have a rock in your life approaching that together to get better from it When you do get back on the court, what's the feeling that you're most looking forward to first time you get those minutes in the NBA Oh man, let me please. all I want right now is to be able to just swim move somebody get an offensive rebound. L I would give anything to be able to just get on the floor and do that right now, you know? But That's I mean, I'm excited to hit shots and do all that, but I'm excited to get possessions for my team and that's That's where my mind's at right now. but how much did you love the OG and and Oie pull back offens of board for the win I mean, you look like It's hard to box out every single time when people go every time. It's just the nature of it. So that's I mean, if you're said forty five times, but if you were consistent at it, like you get you get one and for him it just happened to be the biggest The biggest thing I don't know if I've seen a more important offensive rebound The crazy thing is for OG and andoi is when he was in college, he tore his ACL on an offensive rebound opportunity Oh those came from the left wing on the court tacking into the painting towards ACL. and a very similar type of play And then in the biggest moment of his career, Isn't that incredible? That is a cool sc thinge. No, that's incredible I didn't realize it until just yesterday. I saw a post about it. like I've been covering the draft. I remember OG Taring his ACI. I loved themike I had forgotten it was on an offensive rebound opportunity. It's K kind of insane. likeike just the way life is sometimes Be Hello. That's cool Yeah, it is. What have been your takeaways from these finals and the NBA playoffs as a whole Yeah. u I mean, it's incredible. This have been an incredible playoff just in general Oh but just It's been cool to see tougher team that There's not always the home run plays, but just the consistent I gonna say, but I'm going say it forty five times, but just like People think The Nicks have been so consistent with what they've done. I mean, they shot the ball extremely high clip for most of the playoffs in general, but like It's calledool the se just them just be dogs and It's going to be a good how this series finishes out and stuff is going to be U I don't know it's always been a crazy series ar, but it's been nuts one of the best finals I can remember. I'm curious, Richie, like during this recovery, what are the things you're working at to improve? I mean, is there anything like from a skill standpoint you can get better at? Is it a film? Like what are you doing to get better right now Yeah. I mean, in addition to all of my rehab and that like I mean, I've put on upper body I put on some good Lean muscle pounds. So like I'm going to come out of this stronger upper body. more athletic because of the details I'm putting into my PT T skill wise things are B touch around the hoop and keeping improving my touch and handling this rock. better So I mean I'm I'm are neearly like four times a week Give or take if I've been on the road a lot lately, but I'm in the gym and getting wor on my handles and working on my touch You know, I'm not able to to go in a play a five off f game or whatever or even get a real Cing off screen workout and all that kind of stuff, But yet I can control my dribling and how much I'm handling the rock and working to improve that and how much I'm I'm improving my touch around the basket end from midrange area I mean, is that part of a come of the vision for your development long term. I mean, you can do a lot of the role player things attack and closeouts, but are you thinking more about like, well, let's say when I'm, you know, four years into my career being able to run more pick and roll, right? Like that type of thing at a higher volume than perhaps you will on your first contract in the league. Yeah I mean, the game the game and career is getting developed, but I just want to be able to have the best foundation I can to be able to effective and what the things that I know I do well and have a good base for of againgain, if if I need a come off of a ball screen be able to do that at an extremely high clip and highigh efficiency rate and U Have Teams questioned you much about, you know, your age. You're twenty four now. You'll turn twenty five later this year I've only ever heard that from outside people Never from Tado Now from teams. teeams love it. I've played in hundred and eighty coll of games I've been in crazy situations. I've had to win games, I've lost games at the buzzer. I've had to learn from those things and Yeah, I've only ever heard that from outside media stuff. And so for me, I just I mean, I've been around Again, I've been around, so it's like I just tune that out and I just put my head down and do my thing And so Yeah. I mean, fortunately, the teams that U Like, I've been very positive about it actually where it's an advantage versus a disadvantage Tue I'm not eighteen But yet I don't need to be developed, like an eighteen year old needs to be developed I mean, it is funny you say that because I think like sometimes you talk to people around the league, a lot of them say, well, actually, having a guy who can come in right away and play on a rookie scale contract is a big advantage for a fir from a team be te and be able to do what I do now, but yeah took me a little bit longer to get here You played with an eighteen year old last year at AAD Bana who very well might be the number one pick. Yeah. What's your best story about AJD Banza Oh I mean, I'll just say one of I can't remember who it was against. I think it was It was early on in the season, one of his put backack dunks that was like Insane, man. a lot of respect for him and I'm excited to see how he where he goes and how he continues to develop and he's about the right things and U Yeah, no,' I'm an ajor fan and I'm excited to again to see how he keeps growing in this game I got some random questions for you, Richie. What's your biggest motivator? Uh, my family What's your biggest pet peeve Uh I say on the need to say on the on the floor Pet pee is U I mean, it all kind of works together, but it's like with people are post no workouts or kind of more focused on like showing that they're working instead of actually being about working U or like a lost post. like I just think that's other people got their own way of doing stuff but that for me, it's That's how I do it. Yeah But what's some music you like that might surprise some people U ye, I mean I''d be surprised, but I love bad bunny That's my favorite or. Okay you must have loved the Sper Bowl halftime show there right? Yeah yeah, I mean, I love the music loveo the music I don't I don't know much b, Bunny. There's like one song I have on on like I have a a night driving playlist. I'm sure there's probably a lot of bad bunny that works on a night driving playlist. I'm just trying to find the name of it so you could tell me If it's any good or not uh, Tita Something like that. Dakita? Dkit the Diti? Oh, ye, I do know with the soke in the Yeah, D Ki. Yeah, yeah, that That was good song. You were you're in the rest spot. That's a great song. What's your weirdest habit Weird this habit. Um we're going we're going to get reaching a whole another level, but every time I walk into the Marriit Center Annex, for some reason when I started with this one I was freshmen, but I always there's some I don't you know stuff cougars It just like decoration. I always touch it. I don't know why I'm I mean I've never really shared that. but yeah, I would say that's to be the c in my head. Something tactically about it Yeah, I'm not suspicious. just a little little suspicious. have to bring one of those to the NBAT in the draft suit? cut off the ears something I So what do you do besides basketball? What are your interests Oh. Yeah, I mean the basketball takes up. whole lot of time U I'd say recently we u So we bought a house a couple of years ago and we were fixing it up. and so that was a I actually loved learning how to fix fixed stuff up, we did some remodeling and put in the backyard and stuff. No I mean, that's been a that's been a fun random thing, but it's helped me take my mind off of basketball too ' pretty cool. I mean, I mean, you're married. How'd you meet her? Howet in BYU in college? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So she p of the woman's team That's awesome. Yeah, I mean it it worked out. I need to work out and It's been great. She's been my right by my side through all of the ups and downs of Uh