The 1999-2000 Season Review

It was Jeremy Hello Hello , here we go . Keith Wanda Cold on Ticket quickly reading. Right, hello, welcome to the latest episode of the TLW time team. Hosting, as always, I'm Dan and I'm joined by TLW's left peg John Gallagher. How are you John? I'm Dishantania, thanks for the compliments . Well, this episode is about the kind of formative years of Gerard Houlier's time at the club , which was massively transformational, but before we make a start, John, it would be kind of remiss of us to not mention the big news. Obviously Antonio Ira ola has just taken the job on a two year contract, which freaked me out until I realised it was at his request Happy Yeah, yeah delighted Anne. You know, from a couple of perspectives really, you know, I'm a I'm a Bill Bau man as you know always had a soft spot for them since the sort of late nineties, early two thousands. So you know, I knew all about Eriola's football career was one of Bill Bauer's greatest ever players . Probably five hundred dog games I think I might have been for them. So you know, I was aware of them prior to , you know going to Bourmouth and stuff and the Premier League's been a dull league on the whole this season but sort of box office ticket if you like his Bourne Mouth. You know, you always know he'd in for a good game when he watched Bourmouth and not just this season but over the last three seasons what he's done there you know he's sort of elevated them from what he win, you know, do you would accomplish in Premier League shires and you know, he's got them doing things that you'd never expect Bolmaut to do and you know an unbeaten run for any team in the Premier League are like seventeen eighteen games is impressive , but when it's sort of something like Borma, the smallest team in the league, you know, that deserves massive respect what he's done there and how they've gone about it as well. So yeah, really excited and intrigued to what we could be looking forward to next season . Yep, that echoes my sentiment as well. I'm very excited. I'm certainly looking forward to no days off and players being run hard and worked hard . And I think the players will want that as well ultimately should yeah they should. Yeah, the ones who are serious about the Will Wanta , you know, and obviously the standards have slackened for you know million and one reasons that's in the past now. So you know, hopefully moving forward you know you,'ll see the benefits of that . You know, weather it I'm not expecting it to click straight away , you know, it's born at it got off to a slow start and everyone was like oh what's going on here but you know once it started clicking and started getting his methods across then it was a very successful period for you know two and a half years . Yeah lots to be excited about and a huge rebuild to come , which kind of I think is a good segue to move on to Huliere. So I think one of the big reasons that I wanted to do this, John, this whole podcast, this whole concept of a time team podcast is because I was always devastated that when Gerard Julier died in december twenty twenty there were no fans in the stadium because that was another COVID lockdown . And instead of mosaics and songs and memories in the pub on walking up to the game, there was nothing and I found that deeply, deeply unsettling . So this is kind of a way I think to kind of revive Julier's memory a little bit because Jacks' levin, my son and obviously when I say names like Gerard Hulier is like who's that ? And I have to explain just how transformational Juliet fair for Liverpool . So he on board as head coach in the summer of nineteen ninety eight . So to set some context at the time as I like to do . W Theorld Cup in France has just finished . Gerald Julier was the technical director . He left after that job after that World Cup to come to Liverpool. Correct me if I'm wrong, John, that's how my memory seems to recall it and the World Cup was a good one. It was a good one to watch. It was on a very accessible time . I was in what would I have been in year eight year nine I was in, which is a free hit year and I remember racing home to my aunties to watch World Cup games it was a very very good, summer that will come. I really, really enjoyed it. Have you got any memories of it particularly apart from the Ronaldo kind of seizure what? Yeah, I mean the World Cup as a whole. Yeah, I mean that summer I loved the summer the ' ninety eight it was one of my favorite summers Brain Adams back in the summer of ' ninety eight yeah, so it was I was working away from home the holiday parks you know, which we've touched on the previous parts and it was just a brilliant time. I think you know I think the way the World Cup, don' It know and now I'm sort of divating off topic a bit what we're going to be talking about, but I think it's one of the few times where I've actually been sad when England went out of a tournament. Normally I, you know, over the years I've sort of been a blaze about it, but I felt sad for that one because you know what Michael One burst onto the world stage what he did against Argentina is incredible And yeah, it just sort of snowball from there you know, obviously Our Mania and yeah so it was just a brilliant summer for me personally I say it's when I look back with fond memories and the actual World Cup itself was a good world cup for the reasons you touched on the games went off at five o'clock three o'clock in the morning or whatever. Croatia. Croatia was the story . Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, apart from Michael Owen, yeah, he was the story . But yeah, Croatia. You know, the Barcamp goal against Argentina was a goal that was yeah, the first touch Jesus. . And Baddy Davis comments, you know, we've got a little soft spot for Baddy Davis, haven't we? We certainly have. And I think Baddy Davis will be at a conversation to be having the episode of the Hulier podcast when we revived the treble season . You know, I felt a bit sorry for him stifling through that UAF for cup run, but that's fair enough . I think you've actually just reminded me John to set some context for this . This podcast. We intend to do this in three parts, at least two . This first episode will cover the early Who the Air Years . Part two will cover the treble , which is one that is certainly the most influential season that I can recall and the third part , if there is one, we will look at what went wrong and the end and we will certainly make sure that who he is time at the club is thoroughly covered. Before we move on to the topic itself, I've got to ask you John because I like to test you with this. What was the number one on the tenth of August, which is when the season started? What was the number one song ? I'd be surprised if you get it . No, Join me to tell you I've got this notion of what was top of the chart when Hurlier became sole manager though . I've got a feeling it was share with you belie ve in love love. I've got a you'll have to check that one. I haven't got a clue what was top in august ninety eighth or whatever, but my gut feeling is I've got this feeling Cher was near the top of the chart in like November, ' ninety eight when Gerard got the job, you know, the full gig. I'm just trying to find the date where he got the job . So that's like the tenth of November maybe or something like that maybe. It was around that let's go with the tenth of November so it was in the tenth of November . I think you're onto something with that personally . Wow . Yeah, because I get no way some songs just remind you at times in your life like that I just remember that being constant ly on like at that around that time ? Yeah, it was just that matches my memory as well . Okay , so it was it was John Congratul ations. It was so clouds on my shelf. Yeah, anyway, that's that's stuck in the original question. What were number one on the center board was when the season kicked off? Can you remember? I haven't got a clue, Shadowy. Viva Forever by the Space Girls. Oh wow, okay. The number one film at the time was Deep Impact . I love that film. Like a lot of people would Armageddon but I was more of a deep impact because they both come out quite not far apart from each other, but I always prefer deep impact to be honest with you for whatever reason. That might not go down well with Bruce Willis fans, but there you go Or Lim Tyler fans for that matter . If you care on november the tenth, Ants was the number one film in the box office and for the WW and Wrestling fans among us, the Stone Cold No , that's wrong. Stone cold was the champion. Waah, I said Stonecold was the champion on the tenth of August . So if we kind of go back before that , John , like it felt like the Evans era was kind of fizzling out . finished we finished third, didn't we? We managed to finish fourth, didn't we? It was third and Evans ' last full season. Yeah, it was a better distant third , you know, Arson Manchester United it was it might have been twelve or eighteen points if I'm not mist aken, but we've well ad vted just showed that the flaws we had at the time. You know, we were capable of good things on our Dab able of Equally tossing one in quite easily as well there's games this season before where you look at and think you know we lost the home against Barnesley were relegated quite easily in the end and you know they beat us sort of mid season around December, November, December . Ashley Ward, I think might have scored the winner . So yeah, that team was just a team that you were a bit fed up of at that point . Did it feel like the racing was on the wall ? Yeah, there was Merman's about Evans. Yeah, it was sort of I mean because the summer before it was all about the midfields you know, we were too powered to puff too lightweight fast forward thirty odds. Nearly some people are saying the same thing nowadays but yeah you know it was all John Barnes was like past his best. It was all about like you know we needed some bites in the midfield and Evan was fed up with the three five two at that point that had served us quite well for a couple of years as we touched on in previous parts as well. Evan was I just remember everyone wanted this ball winner midfielder and to go back to four for two was the sort of you know the notion that was going on at the time you know in Evans' last full season we signed Paul Ins and we did go back to for but realistically it didn't improve that much if anything to be honest with you Ins had a personally decent season , but you know, he was just never a Liverpool player but his personal season wasn't too bad on the whole but yeah it was just a bust of flush at that point and something had to give but I mean you can go on to the what should have happened you know Evans should have been told to ask to step down you, know, good eight serving for the club and that but the leadership wasn't there at the top . You know, David Moore's , you know , he was never the most decisive. Never the most decisive yeah and yeah obviously the whole joint manager thing was an absolute fast that I mean was only ever going to go one way at some point until players are just going to start playing them off against each other I think inevitably that's what happens You're much better placed than me to kind of remember the mood at the time like even all of this time later, I don't recall, apart from the Cowley Brothers many co managers, and even then they went to one was the head coach and one was the assistant . What was the reaction at the time to this to me sculpt or style ? And he used the brains of the outfit Your brother not with you ? Hello Danny . Yeah, we've got to get an Onyfool Say Fools and it's par for the course, isn't it? Let's say it yeah. Yeah. There'll be more, yeah. So it was it, John they looked at as it would be now as in Well, this guy's clearly coming in to take Roy Evans' job in an un certain period of time . I don't know , I mean I don't know how it was just it was more bewildered and more than anything. Like it was more sort of bewildered and but sort of oh I was this gonna go as more curiosity as well it was something totally different that you as you just said you've very seldom seeing football so So you know , I remember going in, you know, I was watched in the early twenties at the time. It was like open minds as you've got to give it a go if that's what it is. You just gotta see how it pans out. I mean at that point it was sort of I wasn't thinking Evans would be the fall guy at some point you know because I think nowadays if something like that might have happened I think the big clamour for both of them to step down at the same time but back then it was different. I think like you know, obviously Huli had all this like thing about bringing younger players , you know, through the French academy and all that and I think the whole success of Arsen Venger winning the double in his first full season of arsenal . So I think, you know, a lot of people were intrigued by Huli , who he was, what he was, you know, I didn't know too much about him apart from used to be a teacher in a school also which is a few minutes away from where he grew up in the late sixties, I think it was. So yeah, I was just more open minded and more curious to see how it all pans out and you know , but as we got off to a solid start that season ninety eight ninety nine I think might have been top after three or four games but eventually the wheels come off pretty quickly and I think if I remember rightly I think it was a game at West Am There was a change made to the team that I think the team might have just picked itself for the first few games but that West Arm game . I think we went with one striker up front and I don't know whose decision that was you know McGuffy and it probably would have been Julius and we lost a game to one and I think from there it was just pretty much downward spiral and yeah, look in back at lots of drop points which kind of culminated with with Evans' departure . So you've kind of like touched on it. I remember having these conversations with my dad I was probably too young to understand the context of joint managers and quite naive to football still at the time my dad's feeling was that the plan was for the boot room to get taken out and axed . And in conversations that we had years later on, he felt that the boot room had served its purpose. As you said, Evans' glorious, glittering career on staff and obviously the nineteen ninety five Karlin Cup. Sorry Coca Cola Cup which we've covered on this podcast previously was the only team that Tory Trophy that talented team won So go on John Yeah, the whole thing with the boot room I, mean , I remember when Sunis was manager that was a thing as well. Like he changed things in the boot room and things differences , there's changes made. I can't remember the specifics of it now but, I remember it being a big thing about the values of the club were being changed like move and the I can't remember what it was now if that me up, but I just remembered the whole boot room culture was being sort of discarded a little bit when SunS was manager. I think obviously Evans brought it, I think the term was back to basics at the time. I mean it was a phrase he got off John Major, who was the Tori leader at the time, the Prime Minister that phrase back to basics was going back to the boot room like culture if you like him, which obviously we did for that few years . So yeah, but obviously that's, you know, absolutely correct. I think like we've seen what Arsenal was doing in terms of , you know , Venga with the , you know, the Tony Adams, you know, players like Dash spoke glowingly of Venga adding years to the career , which probably wouldn't have been prevalent as Venga not taking over Arsenals. He has all the modern methods etc and I think that's what we want us to probably replicate at that point and drag the club into the modern era . Yeah , and I think and Venger is credited with this and Huli later as well it wasn't exactly like pione pink footballers but it was still in that transition period and Venger and Julier kind of changed diet didn't they and got players thinking about things like that and that was transformed. I mean Julier was our first non British manager of quite famously so you're right that Venguer kind of moved the needle. And there was I remember a little bit of intrigue with with Julier's appointment as I say, certainly my dad was kind of like I think this guy's coming in to kind of he used the word modernized but I think what I would say because I was a bit more emotive than my dad is kick ed dragging the club kicking and screaming into the twenty first century, even though the twenty first century was a couple of years away . It was kind of just a huge modernization. It was kind of like it almost sounds like a Soviet plan , you know, like the great modernization . And I'm sure Julier was appalled by the third kit that season, which was that bright yellow V necked effort with the Jason McA poster, the calm down poster it was talking about maybe it was Paul that was talking about it with actually on the way up to the to the Brentford game a few weeks ago . I remember that it was Jules actually. I got it I'm turned into Paul though remember who I was speaking to I think it was Jules I was talking to about that . I think that kind of sets the scene well and you've touched on on the start of the season . If I remember correctly, John, you like there were some good moments, I mean, particularly the for one drobbing that we gave to Newcastle. Yeah, I was did just almost hot off the Wale Cup and that year? Yeah . We absolutely annihilated them . They played some incredibly naive football. They just sat Kenny as well, obviously , absolutely enormous Liverpool legend and best wishes to him as well with the news that we've had this week it's been a terrible week for ex Liverpool footballers and cancer so good luck to all three of us and on the newcastle theme as well.v Oiousbly Kevin Keygan yeah. Yeah, good luck to all three of them in that fight Newcastle just sacked Kenny and they just thrust rude it was rude holly wasn't it? Sharksy football and we absolutely battered them. Can you remember who's got the only goal? His only goal for Newcastle ? It was the French striker the way it was Guyvach was it? It was yeah well done yeah very impressive Yeah that tended to be a theme as well was Casharagi another one for Chelsea Yes it was yeah it's the only scot and he got a horrible injury but I always felt that that period players were to score not only goal. I mean, it wasn't Casaragi probably would have scored more for Chelsea. I don't know if he knock got injured but yeah I remember the Guiva Scal yeah yeah I mean we let Richard Roofer score for childhood at Anfield in a three hour ro om, you know, but as you said, you know, we were top of the league after four games and then we had a five game winless spell , including a drawer at Woodison . Cassie Ragi did score in that in that that spell as well for that one old drawer he lost to old Trafford. Drew Neil Goodyson dropped to Nottingham Forest . You remember the Cassaraga? It was the film barbari. It was host game . Yeah, yes, it was it was that incident . Which is making me cross my legs. Yeah. My eyes are water and just thinking about it. Yes yeah Michael Owen scored four in that noting Forest game as well the equalizer for Forest was scored by Dougie Friedman and then we went on a bit of a losing streak in the league we lost one there at Leicester Tony Cottie scored. We lost two one at home to Darby Paulo one chop scored we were kind of talking about this before one the Lugensteids on the fourteenth of November, which was this was the end we'll go into that now. We we also went out to Selte of Vigo not long after this as well. Yeah, they all played us over the two legs. Yeah, I remember but that little rush in the field like that number ten . Yes, I can't remember his name but I remember it well. Did he score? Mostavoy was that as a Mostavoye? Oh, Mostavoy, yes, it was yeah. Yeah, he was yeah, there was quality over the two games yeah. just like ran the show and both games if I remember rightly. So yeah, we were well beaten . I mean the Valencia game was pretty good. I mean we went through an away goals on the round before I think we had two red cards, didn't we?? It was it Yeah, we were hanging on big time that game. Yeah, it was a bit of a Kamikaze game, but yeah, we had Tuesday cards and held on unbelievably . So yeah, that's what I mean that team had to hold on you know,, against a side like Valencia of a sort of up and coming Spanish team at the time. They went on to lose two Champions League finals Valencia. Yeah, that's right two or three years later, wasn't it? Yeah, so there was a little sort of moments you still thought there might be something there but they were few far between at that point yeah and the damage was was done like I mean Ev left on november the twelfth . Yeah. Are he meant that was the Spares League cup game or was that was the final straw. Yeah, that the top one defeat was that was on the tenth . Yeah Yeah , I remember Stephanie Everson scored in a couple in earlier . Yeah, he did, yeah. And Alan Nielsen as well. There's another throwback name. Spears won the trophy that season as well, didn't they? Yes, they did the be Blackburn in the fin al. It was a Blackburn ? I think it was? My totemized me Lester might be wrong, I don't know. You're probably right . It's not important enough to go on research anywhere. Definitely not. So then obviously Julier took sole charge and his first came we got absolutely we absolutely capitulated at home to leads one they look with twenty minutes to go end up losing three one that need scored three goals in seven minutes absolute disaster that was it. I mean that sums up that team because we've scored okay one they're left not long left and Alan Smith come and score with his first touch, I think. As an eighteen year old he probably was at the time and yeah they just picked us off and just shows how brittle and fragile we were . Castlebank scores a couple as well . So that's what it was at the time. It was just inconsistent. I mean , you know, if it wasn't long after that we went and battered the league leaders ask them villa was, you know, good size at the time. John Gregory I remember John Gregory challenging the FA to set up a direct debit because he would never stop criticizing referees. I like this guy who understands that was about all he ever achieved. But they were the trail Blairs villa at the time weren't they? At the time, yeah, yeah. He was half of le theague and yeah at that game at Fowler got the asterisk so you look at I think Collymore got a red card. It was that the Collymore Harkness game. I think that like the beef between them with the like the rac ism Collymorph accused him of the racism. I think it was that game and Collymore got a red card and but so that's I mean like they're going go to into Raston Villa they were flying at the time, beat them for two, but then the losing against leads being one they'll love losing against spares like three one er it was just bity it was inconsistent. was There not in sort of , you know, there was no sort of momentum to anything we were doing at the time. You know, so obviously when Huli got the rem take over, obviously he was he knew he was going to get the time to obviously make sure things were followed through. He had the back end of the boys obviously to you know, as you says earlier to drag the club forwards no matter the context of it and however the season was going to go There's no doubt there's battles going on behind the scenes with obviously the club captain at the time Paulins and Julier and yeah, it was just a question of setting the standards for the following season I think and finding out who had the stomach for the fight ors who didn't ? who And had the mobile phones drowned in buckets ? Yeah, yeah. One of my one of my favourite stories that I don't know if it was that season or the next season when the phone went in the bucket. I don't remember . It doesn't strike me something that a core manager would do. No, no, absolutely. I'm going to say that that was the first day of the next season preseason. But what you say'reing about is it being Betty form is true one for two villa people that burned to another next week lost Gerard's debut game at I think I think you're right yeah then we won those two lost to one, four out of five, the one we didn't was a respectable no drawer at Arsenal . We beat Southampton seven one on the on the nineteenth of January . It looks like we had we'd have had a good Christmas that year in terms of football. The Reds doing well as I already remember about that Southampton seven one was was you started seeing okay do it all academy graduates who scored Farler David Thompson might have scored maybe Don Mattio So yeah, so you're looking at okay, well that that's goes you know, we've got all these academy lads god and so it's it give you something to just hang your hat on at that point you know that things were being zomb behind the scenes at that point lost to Coventry of course because we always seem to lose at high field roads after that . One match that I actually want to focus on in particular here in the twenty fourth of January we lost to a united at Old Trafford in the FA Cup, went wander up early on, defended for our lives , was starting to think we're going to do it, and then, as was the one tall season , the Manks scored two to late goals to steal it from us basically it felt like York and Soloskaya with the last kick of the game pretty much knocking us out . That to me was a watershed game because that team was organized , defended very, very stoutly. And I remember and I remember my dad saying this as well . He was made up with how Julier reacted because Julier said we will be at Manchester United. He didn't just say that he said, you know, how well we played and then we was on luck. He said, We will beat Manchester United because they were the obviously the standard Burrays at the time. They were an arsenal . And how right he was ultimately we would go on to enjoy a couple of the nice days of Oak Trafford after that one but that one hurts because we didn't we didn't deserve to lose that game. We defended so well only to get undone later on. And I imagine a lot of that was mental fatigue as well as physical. What are your memories of that and the kind of like did that game give you some idea of what Juliet was trying to do? Wanting to remember about that game was the Paulins come off he walked off the pitcher he come off injured but he walked off and I remember who he saying something like if my if my captain's injuries are old Straffords in the F FA in anA cup game. I want them to be coming off in a stretcher . So that sort of set its own there. You're thinking okay, it's like obviously things wear not too well behind the scenes you know , there's rumours of like a mole behind the scenes leaking things at the at the News of the World Christmas party situation where obviously photographer got in and you know Caraga's cover withing the striped and stuff and it ended up in the front of the news of the world, the Christmas party. So you know it's one of those times when you're thinking that's what the battles that were going on be hind the scenes obviously Phil Thompson had come back into sort of just to keep the values of the club , you know, in the past to sort of compliment what Hulu is trying to do to drag us into the future. So it was a young to the young maybe so yeah, I mean I think that that defeat old Straffers I think that was like season over at that point I think there 's nothing really to play for outside of Europe. It felt like that yeah, it just felt like I think we lost that game you mentioned at Coventry the week after. I think it was that week Mac McanManim come out that McManiman was leaving on a bosman as well . So it just felt like a bit of a sort of defeat of statitude. I mean, we'd had that little run around Christmas where we had some good results as we touched on but I think that all that defeated old Strafford we just had league games to play out for and yeah it was just a bit of a nothing end to the season ultimately and then we went on a huge win the street we be Matiddlesbrough three one at Anfield Phil Stamp Scord consolation for Middlesbrough and then we didn't win for one, two, three, four for four games we didn't win from like the sixth of February till like the third of April . Yeah, and even was like, you know, we had forty games on the way because I've had the forty like we play forty games this year and I think that's the way it was for us they had like a month without playing. I think we had like a spell where we had three or four weeks without playing that season because there was nothing to play for winning any of the cups winning Europe . So what I just remember it was sort of long waits between games, I remember , you know, we've got all these teams playing European football and we're kicking our reels every week and you know we're out of the cups and as I said, it was just it felt like we were just playing out the season and that's how it felt to remember at the time you just running the games down, hopefully waiting for the summer . That seems like a very, very recent feeling incredibly recent feeling . The third of april nineteen ninety nine I remember very well because I watched this game in France. I was pacing watching soccer saturation because that was all that I could get at the time. Can you remember much about that Derby John? That seems as though you do. I think you're chomping at the bit to talk about this one. Oh, absolutely . I mean , at that point, I mean mellow as time's gone on, but I absolutely despise at that point it was like you know Joe Royal had been the manager I think we hadn't beaten him for four or five years you know you'd had the whole Cliff Barnes and Liverp ool football club got in common. So like they can't be JR little Dallas joke for everyone there and that's that's what it was at the time even though Joe Royal wasn't the manager at that point but, we still couldn't beat Evans. So I was absolutely pumped up for that game and it was the foul of line that obviously the lion sniffing game wasn't it touch line Evans scored early on he was a huge stand wasn't it? It was Olivia deflection but and you're like oh my god there we go again we're not going to beat them again and it was one of the few times that season that the team showed some fight and we actually played really well on the day . You know, as far we qualized not long after and fouler scored the penalty and whatever in front of the Ev ant fans who were getting absolutely merciless abuse as well because that was when all the drugs like things started hence on doing what he did Fouler lock him back . You know, Huli has probably come in at the time , you know, this precocious talent Robbie Farler , but I think at that point injuries are just some for still incredible football buter, he wasn't peak fouler at that point and obviously I think as time went on I think he really just thought he wasn't worth the hassle that he was getting because not long before that we lost against Chelsea and he had the whole gram Leaux situation with the homophobic gesture, if you like. Yeah. So he was just bringing headaches to Huli at the time. It was an off pitch thing. It wasn't his fault. We got it attacked in town I think but either way you think why is he in town he's getting smacked about in a pub toilet . So Huli is probably just thinking I think he probably made his minds up relatively earlier about Farler that he was one of the ones who he liked to you know get rid of but Fowler's gravitature with the fans it's not something you can do straight away . I think Julier had to be in a position of strength, which obviously was when we ended up selling them , you know, two or three years later before we sold them. Hulier didn't have that position of strength to do it at the point probably when he wanted to . Yeah , and obviously moving like moving on someone like that at that point was just not happening Yeah that's it. I mean, he'd suffered some bad injuries foul. And a lot of people say what was his professionalism like this that and the other but Huli didn't see the best of that you know he was when he was eighteen nineteen twenty in those seasons between ninety four and ninety seven had that bad injury preseason I think and then he got the one against Evan in ninety seven ninety eight and he's even though he still had some amazing moments. He still's a sort of brilliant football. He wasn't the peak fouler at that point. And you know, Michael Owens based on the scene who's more hooliest type of guy in terms of his professionalism and his dedication to the game and you know, he was obviously his go to man moving forward . So we started very badly for the rest of the season finish with three wins out of five but there was one game one loss on the twenty first of april at home to Leicester in Marshall scored in the ninetieth minute . That was the same night that man United came from two nill down to win three, two in twoch in to beat Juventus . It just felt like the world was going to fall in. It just felt like I remember people saying it can't get much worse than this and this was long before Mick McCarthy was along to say it can but it did feel like the world was going to tumble down on us that night. It certainly did to me anyway I was at a great view of that sat neck since Dasman in the cop yeah, I mean, I think we'd lost against Villa on the Saturday before. We did one building that was an absolutely abomination of a of a match Villa were crapped at Villa massively tailed off by that point and yeah it was just a end of season fare I don't even think we had I remembered the game we didn't have a shot on or off target. I don't think there was hardly anything in the game. I think even Villa's goal was a spawny, fluy , scuffy goal as well . So you'd add that on the Saturday and then you'd add obviously the Lester game mid weeks of losing twice you know four days almost at the Leicester game . I remember that being the game. I was in the main stand for that where there was actually open descent with the fans at the end of the game obviously encapsulated what United Stone in Churin that was obviously filtered through to the crowd and you know there was quite a lot of boo and just remember people like people around me saying you had a fucking disgrace so things were not good at that point. It was a very dark time . We limped to seventh place in the end top score was Michael Owen twenty three, obviously he was the b theright spark in that season so if we went down and against Leeds, didn't he? That was the end of his season. That was another thing . Yeah he got injured against Leeds you know , when something like being shot by a sniper and obviously just harmy to just harm me with an awful injury . And to be fair, he evolved his career after that to make sure you got the most out of it. You got the most out of it. Yeah . So I think one of the kind of of transformational when did we sign a Jean Jean Michael Ferry, I'm sure it was it was the next summer because he was who the air spy, wasn't he? That was in the I think that was like he might have been in January or something. Yeah, ' ninety nine, yeah. Yeah . We shipped him out that summer. Yeah, I remember he played in that far Lasso game against Chelsea, I think he come on with like seven or eight minutes left or something like that. I was oh my god is you on Michelle Ferry what wonders what he's liking that and yeah you know we've seen too much of him if anything after that I might be wrong I can,'t remember him playing after that but, I do remember him coming on in the Chelsea defeat but yeah that was the rumour whether it was anything and that I don't know about the whole spy thing and all that spy gate touchy subject for Southanson fans at the moment like Well quite yes yeah maybe it was him who drowned who drowned in his phone possibly like he was shipped out to Middlesbrough for a pretty paltry one point two million . So summer of ' ninety nine, the new millenniums on I'm not going to go through what was number one and whatever again you know we've done that I'll go for the Venger Boys or something like that. I remember that being a thing at the time? Well, yes, yeah. And I was always prepared to climb aboard Captain Kim's plane to web for that was that was one of the latest songs. I think that might have been the up and down era Boom boom, boom, boom was two thousand , I think, so maybe I can't remember it's I can just hear or see Ol shaking his head at me for talking about the Venger boys in such globing terms so it was a really , really transformational summer of ' nineteen nine. I'll never forget that picture of Juliet in front of with all of his boys in front of him, all the boys he signed . So at the time this was, quite a very, very expensive overhaul of our team . You know, like when you look back at some of the transfers fees that we paid, yes, we got some bargains. Sami Hippy at two point six million , you know, like and at the time because the internet was not widely available and scouting was a lot more old school, you know, you look at I remember signing Sami Hipp ier and going who's that Titti Kamara, you know, like so Sammy was two point six million Titty Camera was the same price we got in from Master . Stefan Honsha wasw from Blackburn, obviously we knew him three point five million. He was probably blowing out of his arm signing his contract because it always looked like he was Sam De Westerveld was four point one million. I didn't know anything about him, but I was assured by Goal Magazine that he would be an excellent sign in. Vladimir Smith from Lonz four point two million . I think that was the most exciting one, wasn't it? Because of all Czech Republic thing two or three years before. Yeah, Berger. That was you felt oh, you know, you're more Paddy Berger's mate. He's cheer , he's great. His party burgers meet, Vladimir , Vladimir . Eric Meyer was on a free mad Eric deciding that excited me the most was actually Diddy Haman Right . Now he didn't actually do particularly very much for a while. It took him a while to settle in and it fell . And I'll mention it now because I'll probably forget later, but we actually on deadline day before the days of Jim White screeching with his yellow tie , the transfer deadline day was in march, tenth of march on this particular occasion we paid eleven point four million for Emily Heski, which was big, big monies . So they were the biggest transfer fees that we'd had, you know, we'd obviously paid eight million for Collie more previously , but that is a very, very extensive significant overhaul and with the outs, you know, like David James went to Villa for one point eight million Maniman left on a free, we somehow got one point five million for Jean Michael Ferry as he ferried himself back across the Merseys to Saushu in France . The microwave of Tony Warner left on a free, Jamie Caster left on a free, Jean Dundee man weaged to construct Garth into paying one point one million for that frigate. Ins went to Middlesbrough, Ivan Leonardson went to Spurs, which felt like a good deal at three point three million for both us and for him it just wasn't for us . Beyond Talk of Armour one point two million from Saint Etienne Reedler we got two hundred four thousand from he was a good servant. You know, he obviously came right at the end of his career, but Ian Dunbarvin went to Shrewsbury Town if you heard that much about it . So that was a really, really significant overhaul of the team . And I remember I talk about my dad a lot. I miss him and he's been gone nearly five years now. I'll quote him a lot on this this was kind of like the first real, real season I can fully remember all guns blazing coming at home from playing out to watch matches and And got off to a bit of an if you start, but the signs were the early on that this was going to be a team that would have its ups and downs, but would probably have more ups I felt starting off with a winner Sheffield Wednesday obviously always helped when a debut scores and which Titti Kamara did with if I remember correctly it was a screamer followed up by a wanderle loss at home to Tommy Mooney's Watford and a wanderl loss at Middlesbrough where we always seem to lose . What were your thoughts early in that season? John, were you kind of confident how they different Yeah, I mean I was at I remember the Waffer game being there you know it's you're excited at that point because you don't know any of these players really and there was a bit of a bit of a listless performance. If I remember rightly and you're like, oh , you know, you're wondering what's going to happen. There was just the unknown, wasn't it? You know, it was such an overhaul as you say. I mean, that 's second nature now adays isn't in five, six players and but back then it was a big thing normally back then you bring in maybe one or two players every summer but yeah that was like an absolute sea change compared to what I gone before . So you know, you think obviously got to give the new players time to bed in, but the goal we can see is against Waffords was very cops yeah exactly Keystonker just was bobbling around the box and there 's me moony slottes it away at the cop end but I think that was relatively early in the game now I can't remember what minute so we're fifteen yeah so he has a you know full game to obviously turn it around and that but I don't think we ever look likely so you think oh and then we lost the week after against Middleesburg and that's when you know you think little alarm bells start ringing and then you're thinking we've got leads on Arsenal one after the other and you know we could be in the bottom three early early Zorger but he already pulled two brilliant performances out of the bag. I think when one nail down at leads for T. Camara evoked memories of Tony Aboa with his goal, absolutely brilliant goal . I think the second one was an own goal so and the arsenal game, I mean we absolutely battered them one that whole game. One sided games I can remember seeing. Yeah , you're thinking okay wow okay there's something good could be going on here it was just actually ninety minute performance arsenals didn't get out the drone off it felt like and it was it was a two noble battle and you know he would have had an undeserved consolation both West of that helped him settle down a bit West of shaving the Davos a penalty of the Anfield Roads and later on the last minute . So yeah, so you think there's a bit of a feel good factor then you know, you'd expect them results to be a bit up and down but I think as the season went on you know it wasn't like a flam boyant team, but it was a team that you started to trust in terms of being able to get our results out and you know, we got ourselves into good position so you know what on Christmas time, you know, I think we won a good run around like November, October, November you started seeing like the semblance of a, you know, a good solid , you know, team after years of flakiness . Yeah it took us a while to settle into our rhythm at Anfield. We lost at home to United with more keystone cops defending and we contrived to lose the last and as you said Darby of the Millennium Ofnield to we finish with nine they finished with ten . Yeah, and that's there was that sort of , you know, those games and you just never knew at that point where like a slip up was around the corner boasts to be expected. You know, united with a obviously formidable team at the time and Eveton, as I was only one beat them once in like five years or whatever it was so but generally I say results have impo formances improved as the season went on and we become more resolute and you know difficult to beats, you know, just goals again st Columb started to look more healthy and they'd had some for, you know, a few seasons as well . Yeah, I mean, we weren't for long in either the League cup obviously we had a two legged game in the League Cup because we were that poor the season before that's how low we finished we beat Hole nine three over two legs and then lost at South Ampson went out the FAA Cup relatively early on as well at home to burn to Blackburn yeah. Could you remember scored the winning goal for Blackburn that day? Nathan Blair was it? It was Nathan Blair. Yeah. It was late on as well, wasn't it? It was yeah Buddy Ello Jhn eighty fifth minutes or maybe I don't know . So we strung together a quite a long winning run after the we drew at Villa and we drew it at Southampton but we actually managed to go on a quite a long run. We won five and like six out of eight through one in it West Ham where we seem to have problems at that time and then come to the fifth of December which is a game that I remember very very well because to me that was a day that Stephen Gerard exploded onto the scene. Having come from one mill down against Sheffield Wednesday we went and scored four one won the game for one very very good performance and I remember Gerrad exploded from midfield, going around the keeper and stroking it in and that was just that that's something that I remember very well back game . Yeah, yeah, that was his I mean, he's had his defensive moment at the back end of the season before I against Evan with the goal line clearance celebrating it like a goal, but that was like the moment you thought wow, you know, just swallowing them past a couple of defenders and you know placing it in the corners. So like effortless and you think okay what a what a football we've got here and you know we had a good like nucleus of academy players like some Masio I like Masio I don't think he was everyone's favourite but you know we played left back last season and I thought he did a pretty good job on the whole and you know, I know we shouldn't I at the ends of that season but I thought you know I always had a lot of time for Don Matty I thought was a good player for us nice left foot and the team yeah yeah. And David Tomo he was doing little bits and night think scored the winner against Chelsea be Chelsea one there . Chelsea with a good side back then. So there was moments that yeah , you know, we could and get asson able but definitely on an upward cave here finally yeah and we kind of like we had one slip against Tottenham just after Christmas Chris Armstrong scored the winning goal. Other than that, we went apart from that one game we went unbeaten from the fifth of December to the twenty ninth of april . Not all of them were wins. We drew three in a row, including I remember a very frustrating draw with Sunderland where Kevin Phillips scored a penalty . Was ki's debut that one? I think it was actually yeah winning one mill arsenal Titti Kamara inspired the green case. When you think of that green case it's Ti's case isn't it? Yeah it is yeah. I love T Bull Tiero absolutely absolutely a cult hero yet . We looked well bound for Champions League football . We went into the last day where we still could have got in, but we had a bit of a stair stair stair stutter as the season finished. We got away with murder in the Merseyside Derby when Vesavelle booted the ball up Don Hutchinson's arse and it went in, but Mr. Pole helped us out and blew for full time . And the scream was absolutely palpable from the Avatonians as it always is. Yeah, the the horse were revolting and they were angry as well so the week before the Lesser Spotted Win at Wimbledon a place we did well. Yes. Can you remember who scored the goals? Hashki too. Yep, absolutely made. Yeah . And a big win at Coventry as well . Again a place we struggled three now, yeah So it felt like we were building to something . We didn't get over the line. I remember we lost at Chelsea, which we always seem to do. That was obviously Chelsea were a good team and they spent an awful lot of money . We'd lost tuna home to Leicester, which was the aberration really . You know, you expected us to win that and that probably would have got the job done and then we drew no home to Southampton before you know it. We're under enormous pressure and lose one that Bradford on the last day. Now I'll come onto that in a bit . Do you think that we were ready for the Champions League or do you think that that would have been a season too soon and we would have probably did obviously we benefited from being in the UFC Cup the next season because we went on to win it and I think that season transformed the club into a big part of where it is now. But how did you feel at the time was the kind of like this kind of devastation that we didn't get into the top three ? Well last circle we were in I think we were actually second going into them last five games and you think okay , you know, it should finish comfortably second . But yeah, the wheels just came off for whatever reason you know players just lost all kinds of form . Whether we were ready for the Champions League, the way I see it back then the UAFA Cup there wasn't that much difference No it was very champions league Yeah so I mean you still have the team you know you see the teams repeat the UA for cup the following season so there wasn't sort of the gap between the two competitions that there is now . So I think if we gone in if we had to qualify for the Champions League, I don't think we probably wouldn't have won it, but I think we give a good account of ourselves As I said, I don't think the difference was that massive , you know, with the overall quality between the two competitions at the time, but I was at that Bradford game . And it was absolutely devastating at the end you thought , you know, you're eye you've been picked at the post by leads and you know, you're thinking about it and it's it wasn't a good end of the season. It started raising more questions again because obviously we had I think that season we had two thirds of a good season and one bad thirds is probably the best way I could describe it and you know, we had a bit of an if he starts on the if he ends but over like twelve matches or whatever was but twenty five of them that the games are pretty consistent so yeah, but that brave for game was yeah I remember being actually deflated at the time just seeing what we've blown you know we've been wanting to be a dynam at the top table in the Champions League again. He shared like manionister national playing in it and whatever year in Yellowst but in hindsight it was a wonderful thing it was for the Beschford 's development moving forward . My kind of overriding memory of that Bradford game is I was I don't want to sound like a dramatic fan who sat pitched at a game in tears, but I was sat on the front room floor and I was heartbroken because I was convinced that we were signing Zedan if we got into the top four. Obviously I had a lot of respect for who he had worked with him . There was all the rumors in gold and shoot that he was seeing house hunting inform and if we got into the top four he was coming and now obviously that was a pipe dream but try telling that to what fifteen year old me and my dad come back and he used to go outside watch the games. He come back from the pub and I was still sat in the front room floor, and he come over, he just tapped me on the shoulder and he said, Never mind, boy, we've finally got Wimbledon back for nineteen nineteen eighty eight because I was saying a look at the absolute minute of Positive starting there . Yeah . Win against Wimbledon like what twelve years later, whatever it was. Yeah enough. Yeah, my dad played the long game there. Yeah , but yeah, I mean they went down that season Bradford relegated them Wimbledon I see what you mean now yeah yeah okay yeah yeah like Wimbledon got relegated because of that result . I mean Dad wheeled out bloody Terry Burton as manager to try and keep them up because they had that bizarre Norwegian shit kicker we were used to were well he's Eagle Olson The Wellys ? Yeah, and Wimbledon teams used to launch anywhere, but boy or boy did he take it to another level? Yeah . Yeah, it just makes like John Hartson was playing for them at the time if members me right was he ? Yeah . And he was a big sign of Wimbledon at the time, you know? Yeah. Sam Herman was splashing the cash . It's weird because Wimbledon were a big part of the early Premier League early Premier League story weren't they and they never I don't remember them even being close to ever coming back up after that, that that was their time . Yeah , and like other teams have been circling the drain like Southampton and Coventry and it would catch up with Coventry with Coventry the year later Middlesbrough The only one who was circling the drain that escaped from it was Evans. Yeah . Yeah, they've wanted to circle the drain for twenty five years and so get away with it so that was the kind of tale of the season really . Insofar as the plays we brought in , you know, like Eric May wasn't the best buzzy but he tried, you know, the effort was there we actually brought characters in. I mean , even now you say that football now if you got goods without sounding out my keen, but if you got good characters that's the start, I think that's after battle, isn't it? You know, and I think that's one of the modern te am is missing. Yeah, I mean team. Yeah, I'm not saying all the plays on Nobeds, but Clawthaders know Nabet's philosophy in Huliia started that in a way. You know, I'm not saying Paul Linch was a bad player far from him. He was a excellent midfield player, but he was an obid and you know, that's the long and short of it. He wasn't a Liverpool player, but we still signed him But Hui had obviously looked into things like the backgrounds and how hungry they were to play for the club you know and all the players in that first summer you know did contribute in one way shape or form that season . Yeah, and when you look at some of these platelate, Sam Hippy went on to win a European cup Vadimir Smeiser and Diddy Haman scored in the Istanbul shootout and they weren't like it's hugely huge. I mean Honcha would gone by then and Titty didn't stay long did he you know I think when Heski come in, I think that did unsettle something as the season went on in terms of how we were playing. The correlation there, John ? Yeah, I think we lost a sort of, you know, the Maverick style TDRs, you know, the like the flamboyancy because it was a sort of it was a functional team that was solid to be but he did give you just a little bit of stardust on things and he do like unexpected things a bit of flare and I think when you know Hurley sort of dropped on them and you get you got much of a look after Heski come in and Hesky like generally struggled early on and there was sort of I don't know it wasn't like sort of anything major but there was little murmurance with the fans about little like little things like that as that season went on. You know, about the sort of the setup of the team and stuff and Heski did flow a little bit. He had some good games. Don't get me wrong. I mean, he scored the Wimbles and I remember a game against Tottenham at home. I think he played particularly well in Beach Sprs too and early on in his first couple of months here, but it just felt like the team had just lost something when Ti came out of it . That's certainly my memory of it as well and you know it's a shame that he wasn't there long but because it was just box office T. Yeah. He never knew what he was going to do next and I don't think he did either. I remember him breaking down in tears when he scored a goal after he just lost his dad . I can't remember which game it was now. I want to say to be the Bradford West Arm. Was it West Arm? Yeah, one now yeah yeah yeah yeah that's Bradford game here on about the three one the only I think Brad Napskill has a free kick I think but the other the only other I'm surpris ed you won't know this before I say it was Jeff Winter with Jeff Winter getting the ball absolutely twat as the ball. Oh yeah mister Winter Jeff Jeff the Ref got the ball absolutely absolutely smashed right at him . Yeah, that's what I think it was red enough who just leted it at him like six or seven yards and they could see the like the beds sweetening from her chest. Yeah, it's just one little overhigh memory of that guy. I don't remember that very well yet . Do you have the ref copy ones right on the bunch? Yeah, brilliance . Jeff Jeff the ref, Jeff Wins. It was a good book actually . I remember him I remember that being a very good read and enjoyed. You don't you don't get referees like that anymore? No , I I remember remember you Rih Renny having his own agents Well, I didn't know that. Yeah, you Rih Rennie had an agent yeah. Well, I think he was a good referee but I think it got it got the fame got to him a bit then didn,'t he? , I think he shows all lost his waver. You know, he became a bit too cocky as time when I'm a celebrity. If you hire an agent, well, that's it TV referees. Yeah. Referee. He was the referee who celebrated when we scored against Leeds Pazi Berger, like Leather one in the top corner . And I think he plays an advantage or something kind of he fisted but like did a fish pump when the goal went in? Who was it? Mr Reed? That season ninety nine two thousand . Mr. Reed, Mike Reed. Was it Mike Reed? Was it? Yeah, well I knew you'd know that then. I'm not surprised you know that Per . Oh wang wrong read Terrible Absolutely terrible Oh dear dude I've plumbed you decks . Yeah, well we're about ready to sign off for this episode. But I just think it's look what was to come was more than this season , but that's the this is one of the most that picture of Julier with his with his boys . I'll never forget that it was just a team that you could start to trust in sort ofs inv esting again to me that that ninety nine two thousand season was a new team you know, it did sail off you know at the end of that but you know generally it was a good season at the you know, he think we can see twenty five goals you know in thirty eight games which is, you know, that's a phenomenal record was it twenty five you'll know this down. I'm sure we can see the twenty five goals . It wasn't many I'm just looking at the league tape. So I'm just looking for it now. It's annoyingly not got the league tape. So I mean Sami a Pear come in and he just slaughters in didn't he mean he was that he should have been in a running for football the year that year I think I don't know if he was one of the shortlist he think he might have been, but you know, was just like thirty job oh thirty was it okay score fifty one learning thirty was it yeah yeah well thirty goals and thirty eight games was a massive improvement anyway compared to what had gone on you know the years before. So obviously hippie a hunt show man you know Haman settled in as the season went on and yeah, so it was a good solid Premier League season just tailed off a bit at the end sadly. Well maybe not sadly . Well that's it it led us to where we where we were and it's a part of our story . So yeah , so to how old was I in two thousand? Yeah, I was still fifteen. So it's a fifteen year old me , it was worth it ultimately. And I went to a lot of games the next season. I think me and Chris will do an absolutely brilliant podcast about that because a lot of we all went to a lot of games but we had nights that come in the next season what we could only have dreamed of when we were losing one nail at home to Leicester with Ian Marshall despite the fact he was ninety five scoring the winning goal. Sean Dundee getting outpached by Frank Sinclair six yards on him. Yeah. That reminds me of a funny story about Ian Marshall . At the end of his career, if you remember he was saying for Boltson and whether you like Sam Alladays or not, I don't for the record He was into his data and his science . So he put all of his plays on like heart monitors and stuff like that. He said just do your normal day, you know, when you go for a run or whatever just make sure you wearing this. Anyway, Ian Marshall had it on for a few days and he got called in by Sam Madis team and said you need to have a heart scam . And he was like, What do you mean? He was like, you know, your heart ratings are very, very, very wrong. We're worried that you've got a heart murmur or similar. So that's something very serious. And then Marshall said, No, I don't . I'll be honest with you. I can't be bothered with all this. So I've just been pointing on the dog when I've been taking the dog out . That's a true story that night. Wow . That's yeah, that's that's what can you say to that that's proper properly remuse me that yeah that's a good one along with one and a completely unrelated one of the other funniest things I've seen involved Bolton I was I can't remember the I think we drew two with Boltson. It was a really tempestuous game and I was in the away end and someone was stood screaming abuse at all juice, which you know, that's that's to be expected, no problem with that. And a steward came walking over waving his hands up and down in a calm down gesture and someone started thinking P and P and P I know it the steward and I think lost it John. It's not that funny but I lost it I lost it I just I couldn't stop laughing. You almost just gets under your skin. Yeah, yeah. I lost it, mate Do you remember that being at Bolton as well? There's not much about Bolton to be fur, which is jovial No, definitely not. But it's there you go, yeah, Ian Marshall has dragged on this podcast by an extra five minutes. I never thought I'd hear those words , but there you have it. Anything else from this kind of early days of who you are you want to recall, John? Are you happy with slotted everything in ? Yeah, yeah, it just felt like it was the start of a journey and you know we're back in Europe again qualified for Europe and as I say it was just a team that you thought yeah, okay you know you don't know you were going to sign the following summer but yeah I, enjoyed the season overall. I felt like a bit of pride in the team again after a lot of let downs and inexplicable games like years before . Yeah, and you use the word trust. You did learn to trust that team . It may not have been the most expansive, but it was organised, it was disciplined, it wouldn't give you anything for free. Yeah, unless you were playing manited at Omfield , which case you get two goals free . But teams have those teething problems and they're always going to find that there are going to be teething problems with a new manager with a new way of doing things . So it was no surprise I think John that wraps it up but I've just got to end it on a joke haven't I because you always have to or I always have to it's the rules I've been on that leprosy diet, John. I don't know if you've heard of it. It makes the weight drop off and with that 's a perfect place to leave this episode. I think so thank you. So we'll be back soon . I'm not too sure when it's a bit more difficult to organise things with Chris given his transatlantic tribulations . So I will try and organise something for this week if we can, John . And it will be the two thousand one season, the travel season , which is certainly up there with the most memorable seasons that I will ever see , but we won't go on about that too much, but I am looking at the list of forwards and I forgotten all about Daniel Surlutz Soyland . Oh wow, yeah. So finish lads, yeah. Yep. Well, obviously obviously you hadn't, John. And Richie Partridge and Alan Navarro were in that squad as well . There you go. So that's what we got to look forward to as well as a touch of Froad Kip So the time team will be back soon. I don't know if the TRW podcast will be back with anything if we sign someone and I'm sure we will. And don't forget you can join TLW as the forum, you can post and share your views , subscribe to the podcast and if you subscribe to TLW season ticket, you get all of Dave's diaries and match reports which are always box office, particularly this week one of the longest diary entries from Dave I've ever seen so yeah don't forget to give TLW a follow as well if you're not following those on socials. And me, John and Chris will be back soon, so thanks for your time tonight, John, and I'll catch you again shortly. Thank you.