Final Advice and Taking Action

Hi folks, and welcome back to Meaningful Money, justust me today. This is session number six hundred and twenty eight And today I'm having a conversation with Justin Harper, who is the Chief Marketing Officer for Life Sarch. Now. Long term listeners will know that I've had a great relationship with LifeSearch for ages. I refer audience members, people listening and watching to Lve search if they've got any questions about life insurance, incca protection, critical insurance All that sort of stuff. They are insurance advisors and they do a brilliant, brilliant job at it. I've used them myself for setting up my own stuff. Even though I could do it as a regulated financial advisor, it's not really a specialism for us And so I've used LiveSarch myself in the past fairly recently actually, and many of you listening and watching have as well So I wanted to have a conversation really about life insurance a little bit later on in life? We tend to talk about it most for younger adults. and that kind of live stage, but it's still important in our forties and fifties. so asked Justin to join me to have a conversation about that I guess there probably won't be any surprises in this conversation because it's a lot of the stuff we talk about isurring a recurring theme here, but at the same time, I think it's important to bring it. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Justin Harper So it's my pleasure to welcome to the Meaningful Money podcast, Justin Harper from Life search. Lstanding Listeners to the show will know that I've had a A great relationship with Live search for a lot of years now and many of you listening and watching will be clients of Live search as a result So we wanted to talk today about Potection life insurance, all that good stuff, but perhaps coming at it a slightly different way, But before any of that Justin, welcome, soir how are you doing today? I'm very good. Thankk you. Good to join you great How you And very good to spend some time with the listeners as well Yeah, absolutely. know. I'm looking forward to it. It'll be it's u Obviously listeners don't know but it took a while to get to this stage, which is entirely my fault. We're here now. so it feels good to be doing it at last. So just give us a bit of an intro, Justin, who are what do you do at Live seearch? And how did you get here? How did you end up doing what you do? Oh Yeah, Justin Harper, Chief markarketing offfficer at Live search I've been in the industry and we talk it it the protection industry, it's always a bit weird because people often say, well you in some form bodyguard or no, no, it's typically it is your life insurance, your critical illness and your income protection. And I was introduced to the industry because I'm a failed artist att the age of nineteen by my stepdad. He said, Well, actually I work for at a time he worked for Gresham L. You might remember them. Oh wow, yeah way back. And D, he said, it's good industry. goodood job. And I started as as a mortgage admin assistant way back and then I've been tended to be involved in protection in one shape or form, pretty much throughout my last forty years working. so mainly for insurers actually, building products, doing sales training All sorts communications, PR and over the last ten, fifteen years concentrated more on that product development and marketing, mainly to advisors and then at Lve search broadened it, I suppose, because I'm now dealing both with partners. We deal with other organisations as well and help them introduce protection to their customers, but also directly to customers as well. So increasingly a lot of my time spent explaining what we do, what protection is, why it's important, how it works Cool. And so we're going to talk today about sort of middle agge, let's call it. And I mean, that's a sort of funny H really because, you know, nobody wants to be cold midle les today. Now we need to we need to sort of define it, I think Yeah, yeah. Shall we talk about f Let's say sort of broadly forty to sixty. It'sro broad chch. It's a broad church nowadays. isn't it? Yeah It is. and I guess What I was thinking in sort of preparing for this was really You know, we tend to talk about protection mostly for younger adults. So you know, either they're getting their first mortgage or kids are starting to come along And suddenly it's like it matters if anything happens to them. I've in my experience, the protection conversation tends to drop off. As we maybe the kids fly the nest, maybe the mortgages are you know, finished or nearly finished. and it's more in kind of wealth building, you know, we're in our peak earnings years and all that sort of stuff So I mean, why do you think it tends this whole conversation about protection tends to drop off in later life. Why doesn't it sort of Stay top of mine Yeah. and you've touched on a few instances there. I think in many cases people take out when they do take out some form of protection insurance, typically life insurance, it's usually when they're embarking on a big life stage commitment most life insurance taken out with a mortgage or having kids and starting that family. That's when some of those financial commitments either forced upon you or voluntary become more apparent And I think as you drift into your forties and fifties, you as you say you're then Sting to settle, you're building your wealth, you're building your family and you're concentrating more on your lifestyle and looking after your family and the future, which is then about not working, hopefully. it is about your pension and retirement. So I can see and understand why people start to feel that the importance of protection drifts away when in fact it probablyro becomes more complex And as you've got more to protect financially, probably more important as well Okay, so let's go with that, then what are the things in middle age that might actually then make protection more important or increase the need for it? Yeah of things really. I think one of the things that we we've got to be consider of If you're working And most of us will be in our middle ages, looking forward to not working soon is that our income is vitally important. It pays for absolutely everything. So be that your mortgage, your lifestyle, your holidays, but also your future as well. And I think that is increasingly important is that Yeah, your income pays for everything U That's one point let's not forget that And I think individuals whilst they may feel they're comfortable if you're like me and people I know then you kind of live within your means but right at the edge of your means. and if something were serious to happen to you or a member of your family, then the consequences can hit pretty hard and pretty quick actually. Yeah, for sure you think it's sort of people get a little bit too comfortable You know, it feels like the need is less acute, as you say, it's arguably more so because we get to the point where we've shifted our focus away from raising our kids paying down the mortgage or whatever. and now we're in the sort of the last fifteen, twenty years, We're really trying to amass money so that we don't have work. And as you do that okay, maybe I don't need it so much. I don't have the mortgage. So do people just feel a bit more comfortable and less kind of at risk do think it's a question of priorities, isn't it? Is if they're focusing more on what I want to achieve, you know, I want to have a safe, you know a comfortable retirement spend time with the kids and so on and so forth, then those are the kind of things that people naturally want to think about when you're talking about insurance, life insurance could be on this fl or income protection You're talking about things that people don't want to talk or think about Yeah, it's like, oh, I really don't So one it's kind of pushed the back of the mind because particularly British as well, I suppose as a culture probably don't talk about the bad things so much and dec it'd be fine. tucking under the carpet. But but also is it's it's I think we also have to accept that we're not invincible It's clear now whilst I feel younger than I am, there are definitely times when I bend over and go pick anything up, you probably the same is that you've grown and you realize just how perhaps not inflexible you are and you're more likely to be suffering from health conditions, be it high blood pressure or you being diagnosed with as serious as illness even Do you think that last point is also a factor? because there's maybe an assumption that, okay, yes, I'm older and yes, there's probably more stuff going wrong And so life insurance is going to be or income protection insurance is going to be very expensive. I think people kind of write it off because they think it's going to be too expensive before even looking at it. Yeah, we definitely we hear that from some of our customers and even people who don't even reach us because they've already made that conclusion It's going to be too expensive for me or I can't get it. So I think it is about putting that disbelief aside and finding out a bit more about what it is I need, what it is I should have, how long it falls How much and I think it is surprisingly affordable. even you know at a younger age you o, it's going to cost me tens, hundreds of pounds to get some cover. Whas be next Let's give you an example, I suppose. two hundred thousand pounds is the typical cover amount that people take out or whatever for twenty five years. If I'm thirty years old, that'll cost me about eight pound a month It'sot a lot, is it? Not a lot. For two hundred thousand pounds U if I'm fifty, fifty one, then that's probably in forty to fifty pounds kind of mark. So For not five year policy. For a twenty five year policy, Yeah That will pay it That' take you well into ret Yeah. If you're, you know, non smoker in good health. Yeah. but that gives you kind of an example of just That's how Ford Wall is. many people might be thinking it's going to be way more Yeah, sure I wholeheartedly agree with your comment about income covers everything. I mean whenever we talk about protection here, it's always like you need to think about What is the primary risk or what is the primary outcome of any of the risks happening? So you die early, you know you suffer a critical illness and survive or you are unable to work And ultimately the out ome of all of those is the loss of your income either permanently or for a period of time And as you right say, income drives everything. You can't save for retirement if you don't have an income You can't help your Now adult children, you know, if you don't have an income So Do you see like Is it mostly life insurance or is I always think incco prrotection is undersold and underused, right? That's something we've talked about a.. how do you It was sort of put this another way. your clients in the kind of age bracket that we're talking about, what kind of we're talking Is it mostly life insurance orr is income protection being taken up as well Yeah, it's it is a it is a mix Predominantly life insurance, that's what most people come to us for initially. And I one of the benefits of having a conversation with some of like life search is that we won't just take your order we'll look to understand the situation what's really important to you. So we see a healthy take up of income protection amongst our customers. probablyrobably about one in four have income protection as well asurance. That's a high proportion, A I remember somebody back when in my early days of my training telling me that life insurance Of all kinds, including in protection has to be sold It's not something that people kind of wake up one day and say, All right, what I'm going do today isn't? Yeah Nobody wakes up with that stonking urge for a bit of life insurance, do they? Really? Oh no, exactly. But of course there's some people worry about being oversold, but actually one thing that's been universally fed back to me from lifearch clients that I've introduced to you guys is that that never happens Butastly, the advice is sound and it's based on Affordability, of course and sort of stuff. But sometimes you need to be nudged, don you to do what' was. And that's it. Yeah. because there is there is a big perception and understanding gap. People just aren't familiar with what real risks they've face nor what solutions are available. So ye so important consider For folks in this bracket then, what are the sort of clear signs that they definitely still need H that What are the things that they need to be thinking about covering? Yeah Well, the first question I go to is Who is dependent on you and your income That's an if you go, generally. And that even applies if you're you single individual with no dependence, no family is is that because you know it was something were to happen to you were unable to work, then Where it's your safety net, that's you. So I think that's your first point of call. Who is dependent on you? Financially Or even practically as well. So who needs you to be around Exactly. So Maybe even elderly parents. they might not be financially dependent on you But actually, if you weren't around then their needs may have to be met by a third party carer or something like that and maybe you could provide for that if that's important to you. That's something which definitely doesn't come up often. It doesn't probably it's not talked about enough.ot talked about enough. you might have saying, Well, I'm in the sandwich generation. I've got my mum stillood around My father passed away years ago, but But she lives abroad with my stepdad now. and Yeah, I'm conscious that whilst they're okay at the minute, well, he's really poorly, but but they're okay for them mines that I've got some caring responsibilities for them as well. and I'm not alone many of us comever as the kids grow up, they never fly the nest either to be honest, but also increasingly, it seems that we've got those responsibilities caring wise or just being around and looking after them Yeah, no that's a good show And one thing I see quite often as well is quite a disparity between in a couple, quite a disparity in earnings. And obviously because of the nature of the society we live in very often, that's in a same in a sort of heterosexual couple, that's where the guy earns a lot more than the lady. Yeah. So that's obviously something to think about as well, isn't it Yeah, and that's one of the things we try and draw out at our customers is that and clients is Typically we're approached by by the mail, actually, not always the case. Increasingly, it feels like, well, if it's anything like Mrs Harper, then she's the one who runs the she runs the household, she runs our finances and got our finger on the poll But it is important to consider the lesser earning or even non earning Partner The fact that they don't earn doesn' doesn't mean that they don't have a value. And so I was doing I was speaking to one of my colleagues last week and we talk about value of a mum. You might remember that. There' some research that the England genereneral used to do, I think, I don't know if they still do it. I remember that. and that was almost a stay at home mum and how would you replace them And I think it amounts to something like thirty thousand pounds a year financially to replace. I think well actually that's pretty good rate to be honest. to look after kids, look after the family ferry stuff around. so Yeahah, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it's not just the earning person or higher earning person. sureure. I think a key part of protection is self insururing you know, so for instance, when we're talking about like people understanding the basics of finance, we talk about the need for protection, but like the start, the foundation of it is an emergency fund. right? It something that you can do to put a buffer between you and the world And Is there a point do you think where people, you know, maybe if they're in middle age and they've got more assets behind them? that they can genuine be financially independent enough so that they don't need insurance at all. Surely there's got to be some kind of threshold. It'll be individual of course, but surely. Yeah. I'll go back to my point that if people are reliant on your income Bang That's the first question to test. And an emergency fund again, I was looking at some research the other days that there are very There are an increasing number of households who have no emergency fund. I know. know and typically you're looking at would you have three months worth of outgo there as an emergency fund. But even then that won't really last you very long at all, soon get depleted and that's where reinsurance can play a role and that additional safety net. To answer your question though S. If you're working then I think there's always some need. somehow somewhere.. If you're in retirement, then Maybe lesser. you you're not looking at non earned income then, But yeah I think generally there is a degree of need. I mean, when I think my sort of planning conversations with clients,'s very much about Um Do you have enough, right? That' essentially the retirement planning conversation? Do you have enough? So if you were to have no earned income from today, will it last you based on some conservative assumptions the rest of your life? And I suppose it's the same question, isn't it? It's like if you can't work from today. Yes, do you have enough? And obviously you're going to end up front and loading quite a lot of your spending. So if you come sort of V veryy ill say in your early fifties and that essentially preclude you from working for the foreseeable then You know, your part. Not only are you going to have maybe ten years less being up that part, you' going have ten years more drawing off it So I think that speaks to the acuteness of need that you're talking about earer on. We feel like we're getting eat together. But actually, haaving a conversation and doing the maths, I think would be important. Yeah. I mean, you probably used the question When would you like to retire and how much you would you like to retire on? Another way of looking at protection is, as you've said there is Could you afford to retire tomorrow Yeah, because that's if you go ill or if you die prematurely, then that's essentially what's happening, isn' it? Yeah. Do you find that people cancel policies kindind of too early. reasons why most people cancel. One is affordability is that they look at the bank balance and or look at their you know bank account and go, I'm paying X amount for this. What's it for? I can't rememember why I took that out? Yeah get rid of that too I haven't died yet or I haven't been ill yet. It's not of money. Yeah it's a waste of money. But we're and again, I think we're looking at middle age, you may have taken out some protection when you Tk out your mortgage typically life insurance is that it's never going to be than it was then Be you've got older and a bigger wrisk. So it may be a, you know, a draw on your on your outgoings, probably a small amount if you took it out twenty years ago you're never going to get cheaper against and you're more likely to claim on it now than you were then. So you know, hate to say it, but yeah, it is, you're more likely to need it And I think as we enter into kind of our middle agge and so on and so forth, I think We may go back to well, I'm working, I've got my death ins service cover or life insurance cover to work. so I'm covered And I think that too is also it's a great safety net But I like to say you kind of rent that because that only applies when you work for that employee. Exactly, you get made redundant and then ye And then it's gone or you choose to, you know leave and move into some sort of semi or part retirement, then that's gone. there. For sure. Yeah. So we do see instances of people wanting to can or having cancelled towards a latter partner, I think Yeah, it's, you know, Willing, that wasn't a mistake. you know? I mean, it's I mean, told the story a few times of I had a couple who were clients and they divorced and he was kind of the link. He was actually a mate of mine. so I never really had that much to do with her And they separated and they had individual life policies, four hundred thousand queid, I remember. and We started having notifications that she'd cance the ourirect debit. And so, you know, we're ringing and were new messages and we're emailing Did you mean to do this? you know, please understand you'll lose cover, all that sort of stuff. And in the end it lapsed And three weeks later, she rang back in floods of tears to say that she'd been diagnosed with breast cancer and was there anything we could do to reinstate the policy to say no. I mean, we did try. We did get old insurered, but obviously sort of three or four months grace given or whatever it was. And so, you know in there you know, I would have done the same, I think in their case. It was It was It was cancellled and it was just the worst possible outcome unfortunately.. And obviously the flip side to that story as I'm sure you've seen countless times is people who take our life insurance and pay one or two premiums and then you know, they have a horrible diagnosis and the life has changed, but also the finances are fine because the insurance was in place. So He could see both sides, I think You mentioned earlier, obviously, as we're hitting middle age we're getting older and stuff starts to go wrong, right? You know, things start to fall off and get a bit more creaky. What are the things that will make a big difference when it comes to cost and insurability? What sort of illnesses or conditions are we talking about? The ones that will really make a difference? Yeah the ones that really make a difference are those serious condition diagnosis. so the likes of Cancer It won't necessarily mean that you won't get life insurance, but if you werere looking at Citical Illers cover for example, then then they wouldn't pay up for that or you may be excluded from that Um alsoso smoking and alcohol has a significant impact on the risk, but also the cost as well. Is that? Is that more the case in Middle agge Yes, ye, well because it's almost that multiplier effect because you've got you're more likely to die at that age than earlier. But yeah, definitely so. And that can add a significant amount to the premium cost And then those are probably the main ones fromrom a life insurance perspective, if you're looking at income protection and crritical illness this is more about you surviving or being diagnosed with a condition or illness then it can range from anything, but those are the big ones. Diabetes too is well. It's a very topical matter. Increasingly common, inn' it? inccreasingly common.. Diagnosed or diagnosed. Typically know when it is diagnosed, then it's usually actively managed. So it is possible to get cover and that's That's something that we come up against fair amount actually. so just by We know who to contact and get and get the right insurance and the right cover for the customer She's where Yeah, a good insurance advisor really is worth their salt because it's the sort of thing that Compare the market isn't going to be out a place, is it? Do? Noope, not very well. So are there any sort of particular life events you think that should trigger people to review their protection cover? Well, you know what? What should bring this front of mind for people? Well, there are major life events but I think it should it's more than that. So your major live events, you've got a job change You may have paid off your mortgage, in fact, so that's an opportunity to review what you've got and what you've done Um, family change. is another one And another is if something's happened in terms of a diagnosis of an illness If it's to yourself, then two late births U that may limit your choices. So it's always important to review your cover. and we would suggest that you should do so Up those kind of life events, career change, job change, even a pay increase. or pay decrease U because even within your existing policies There may be features that allow you to increase cover without having to go for go through more questions and more medicals and so on and so forth. But yeah, I think it's it is recommend and review Probably every couple of years Okay. And increasingly what you know what insurers are doing and doing it live search in fact insurers don't want to do it brilliantly is that we issue annual reminders so people have got date on, what cover they've got, why they've got it, what it's for. and that nudge hasas anything changed? Yeahah? Yeah, no that's good. So it's a prompt people to think about ifending change, the reminder of what they've got, what it covers them for and what they're paying for it Yeah, no that's that's powerful. That I mean, my next sort of question was going to be when people are reviewing what they've got already What should they be looking out for and what you know, what form should that review take So I think you've obvious alluded to it there both. Yeah. I think what is helpful too is that one you may get your or increasing I think people will get there and receive their kind of reminders is and updates is that, you know, what have I actually got? What is it And it is going back to maybe digging out those policy documents and figuring out what is it? It may be library insurance, it might include pitical ness, it might not Um What did I take it out for? What was it intended for? and is that still relevant How was that changed And how much is it? And I think it's always worthwhile to then get back in touch with your advisor for a review A Nive protection advisor like ourselves then There's no fee associated with that. We'll do a sense check MOT as such and to figure out In most instances, what you've got is fine. brilliant. well done. But if something el has changed, then there might be something else you want to consider or add or extend Cool, that all makes sense to me. So we're just going to A little bit of a quick fire sort of true force or it depends if that's al right. Yeah I will allow you a few more words than that if I you feel the needs, right And so this is sort of myth busting. These are some of the things that hear we've touched on some of them already, but I think it just might be fun. So I've got half a dozen things that people say here, so give me a true false or it depends Plus a bit if you want Once the kids leave home, I don't need life insurance anymore folks. Absolutely. The one and as you might know and I do is that they never leave home. neverever. or they might leave home, but the financial dependence still remains. And I think it is that ongoing financial support that they may need And then also you got to remember you've still got your partner to consider as well so the kids may have gone but you got to look after one another. And then what do you want to happen next once you've gone? what do you want to pass on? Yeah sure If you've got a pension put You're really covered. You don't need it f That's pension pots for pensions, right? which is for retirement. It can provide some access and support But I would well, as you know old There are some timing issues around that and accessibility issues and it may not be enough And you built that for a particular purpose Life insurance through work is enough. I don't need my own cover. we touched on this to be post. obs false. Good base, but more often not people move jobs and if you go self employed, you've got no cover. Yeah It's too expensive after fifty depends. depends. I think I illustrated my example there it depends on what you mean by expense. It's not unaffordable, but then it depends what cover you want, how long for, how much. Single people don't need life insurance B And I'm going to the real I'm going I'm going to caveat that a little bit. Life range by by saying life insurance also equals Pictly in this cavern and and income protection. You've got to look after yourself That's right, you asked So if you h havef died, that's your point then you got to rely on your own yourself. Yeah, exactly. you asked who's dependent on you and the first answer is you are dependent. And then finally stay at home parents don't need cover. False. Yeah, We touched on that qu. We the value of a mum or a dad or a stay at home parent Just to kind of wrap up here just in if somebody's listening to this and they're not sure whether they need cover and they're not really sure Maybe even how to start thinking about that What sort of questions should they be asking themselves first? There are a couple of questions. One who is dependent on me look around me, you know, be that F financial dependence, I look down. kids look across partner, look up to, you know the parents, then who needs topend not on me U and What would I want to happen if I weren't around or I wasn'table to work and And what would you want everybody listening to this? Everybody who's in their forties and fifties, which is basically the audience. The audience looks like me, right? I'm fifty one. so what would you want folks listening in our outer age group? What action would they like them would you like them to take after listening to this? Of course, the natal answer would be come speak to Life search. Right by me. meaneingful money.tv The tree cales, of course. Uh, I I think if they've got insurance Review it It's not I think typically what we see more and more of and actually the regulators picked up on this in their recent kind of market study is that It's not a set and forget purchased it's something you've got to review and look at because life changes So that's if you got life insurance. If you haven't gotten insurance B pack to question one is There will be people dependent on you. What would you want to happen if you're not around or you're around. but not able to work. Yeah I'd agree with that. I think sometimes we said it quite early on, we tend to avoid engaging with this stuff because it's unpleasant to think about But actually the sort of grown up thing to do is to say, okay, let's have a bit of a thought experiment be the impact if I was no longer around And what would be the impact if I am around, but I can't What would be the financial impact? What would be the emotional and, you know, caring for others impact if I can't do that and then We need to think about sort of filling those gaps the way in. Yeah Yeah and getting help with that. Yeah. Okay, Justin, this has been fun. and hopefully just puts this back front the mind. That's kind of what I wanted to do for people so makeake sure that they're thinking about it perhaps more than they are. So I really appreciate you joining me. I'm sure we'll do this again before too long I would just like to say that the relationship with LifeSarch has been brilliant for meaningful money, moreore importantly, it's been brilliant for the clients who I have introduced to you who have universally fed back positively about their experience with Life searchy.. so yeah, I've been obviously for me reputationally, It's important if I'm going to introduce audience members to somebody, I want that to be a good good outcome. And it's been without fail, a really positive thing. So I'm really grateful to you until live search for that. So I kind of wanted to put that on the record. Thank Just the team. Thankk you. Yeah. Yeah, please do. So thank you for joining me Justin. I really appreciate your time today Thank you. Hope you enjoyed that. Thank you again to Justin for joining me. I really enjoy the conversation. I'm sure we'll do it again before too long And Let me know what you think. If you've got anything particularly that you want me to ask the guys at Life Sarch, maybe have a conversation with them about Perhaps thinkin a bit deeper or a bit more specialists, then let me know in the comments or you can send an email to hello at meaningfulmoney.tv But my thanks again to Justin. backack to Q and A with Rogge next week. Any links for this episode are at the show notes, meaneaningfulmoney.tv slash session Six to eight. Thanks very much for watching and listening, L and subscribe to the channel if you're watching this on YouTube Leave us a review, where of you're listening to this on podcasts. and we'll talk to you next time. Cheers