Host nations and the growth of soccer in America

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It's like that Monty Py Night I mean, you can chop all his limbs off and he'll still be going off for corn. T is but a scratch. A Bae arriving. Harland arriving at Messy. come on, you've gott to do this, Harry. You've got to join this quartet here for big global stars have arrived Welcome to the sports agents, Hi Cabby. Hello Mark. Are you buzzing? Are you on the hype train? Are you feeling like it's coming home? Are you already A you already kind of, you know, working out kind of where you're going to watch the World Cup fininal? Because you're working on it, aren't you? But No I'm no No, I'm not. I've A you doing the radio No I'll be at the golf. and then and then I I'm doing the open golf that weekend and then I will dririve back from the open golf listening to Kelly and the build upon the radio and then I'll catch some of you on the ty. So, you're going to be at the golf Yeah, my gosh. I love the golf. you do. And I know you'd never not do the golf, but that could be an extraordinary day, couldouldn't it? So what time will the golf finish? she's now worrying about this schedule? You've gone straight to di reme., I don't know actually because strangely enough, I haven't looked at the protocol for the open yet. I've got to get through. I think they might change their te off times if England are in a world Yeah, they could bring everything forward a bit. If I mean, normally it finishes between six and seven. I would imagine if England or Scotland in the final, they may want it to finish between five and six, but I haven't. Yeah rightight there, I'm just demonstrating how ahead of ourselves we get. But I think we have a right to be excited about this England team because they last night played such a brilliant brand of football that we you know we don't always see in tournaments and you were there with our three amigos, Joe Hart, Wayne Rooney and Micah Richards afterwards. And you know, Wayne was Part of what possibly was one of the lowest points in terms of a performance, the Algeria game in twenty ten in Cape Town and the difference in the way the players played last night was incredible. He was also part. we were talking last night. He was also part his very first tournament in the was the Eururos of two thousand four. uh, The England beat crritia, and I think it may have been four two actually. and France are in that group. And there was a real spring in their step in that tournament and they had a great group stage Yes. Yeah. so I I suppose that that shows We have had some good moments before, but it pockets, but also how quickly things can change in a tournament, but they were They were very positive last night, All three of them, I mean, it's unusual for Micah not to be positive, but Joe and Micah and Wayne, very positive, particularly positive about toical side of things and messages and substitutions and not retreating into a shell, but still wanting to go for it. let's bring Henry Wintern, football journalist Wh's in a departure lounge in Dallas, where England beat Croatia And It was fun wasn't it Brilliant word for it. F I've been covering England for I think I've done four hundred of their eleven hundred games and fun doesn't often feature high up on the agenda. And I was actually thinking well cup wise, I'd probably have to go back to Denmark two thousand two when Owen was flying and England won three Nil it's a good Danish side to think of when I walked out of a stadium and I talked to England fans I'm at the airport here at Dallas, the gloriously named Love Field and bumping into some England fans and they're just smiling. You know, normally it's the retreat from Moscow well it was the last time we played Crocer and at twenty eighteen. and yeah, it was fun. F is absolutely the right word for it, Mark. Yeah, I kind of went back to ' ninety six even further and thinking that that performance against the Netherlands, I think they were still Hoolidan. You know, that was a fun night, wasn't it? But yeah, that's a great great way to describe it, chapbers what it felt like was that the players were able to express themselves and do what they do week in week out in the Premier League. And we just at so many times, we've just seen this kind of retreat, haven't we from Premier League stars into kind of awkward England players who don't seem to it's not that they can't play football anymore, they just don't seem to be able to do it in the same way. I mean, you look at the Champions League wners in there their Premier Lague winners in their players. I put it to T people last night. Was it actually coincidence that all your three goals scorers played in leagues where there's a winter break. And he said, well, it's a little bit more nuanced than that. But you know, you look at Harry Kane. He's had an amazing season. but also he had three weeks off over Christmas to refresh Harry obviously is exceptional. He looks after himself so well. But look, we talk about the fun, but there was a lot of applance of science from Touul with the changes that he made at halftim, but also the emotional side. I mean, you've seen him, you've interviewed him. He's quite an emotional guy. I mean, physically, you know, the way he sort of bounces around Tiger style and also just the way he is a player, whisperer, the way he gets into players, the way he's getting the best out of Bellingham and players coming on like Rashford immediately having that impact as well. I mean, you talk about Tle there onene of the other you talk and him being a player whisperer before you came on myself and Gaboo just were just talking about him. When I've done stuff with him Nothing is off limit. You don't get told and it doesn't matter whether it's an interview or in a corporate environment. You don't get told well don't ask him about this or he would, you know, or he say, well, I don't really want to talk about that. He's incredibly open with both his own feelings and information And I wonder whether that openness and honesty will turn out to be his greatest success with the players? I think the players love that. And remember this is a slightly different generation to previous generations. Certainly when I started covering England, they're far more sort of open demonstrative, put everything out on Instagram content generation. So I think they absolutely respond to having a slightly more sort of tactile in a way. It's quite tactile individual in in Tule. And I think that's that's right, but he is come in and he has had a look at the issues with England. and you've got to give Southgate huge credit for taking the fear out of the shirt and rebuilding the bond between the fans and the players. Absolutely, Tuu would not be able to do what he is at the moment without Southgate having sort of developed all those elements But absolutely. he has come in and he hass worked, I mean, tactically, emotionally, the way he's dealt. Binging Jordan Henderson in, which I was a critic of, you just watch training and you see Jordan Henderson's impact. and you can see why it's an absolute masterroke by Tukeal to bring Henderson in because you hear the coaches before the drills, the Rndos, whatever they're doing. And you know, it's only the fifteen minutes that we see Henderson is right in there. It's hard, hard, hard. He is driving standards. Jordan Henderson's not going to play. He might come out on and see out one or two games if England need to sort of close down a game, but it's what he does. and it's just all those decisions that Tule makes, whether it's emotional, whether it's tactical, whether it's selectional, they all seem to be paying off because he is an elite A list manager We were just chatting before Henry about in fact, echoing what you'd said there about Southgay. and I'd heard a few comments this morning, people kind of almost trying to denigate South Gate. Oh, this is what he didn't do. And yet he didn't make as positive substitutions in big matches. and that was something that used to grape the fans. But he would not have be weary as as you say, too cool right now with this group of players as they are culturally without the work that Gareth did. But another thing about Touool's The criticism that's been leveled kind of you know from certain quarters over the last couple of years is having a foreign manager and no team's ever won with a foreign manager. And I can't help but draw parallels with the communication that the women, the lionesses have talked about with Serena Viegman, that directness that they said immediately that they enjoyed, being told exactly what she thinks, knowing exactly what their jobs are. And when they first won the Eururos in twenty two, that was one of the things they praised most about her leadership and her management And obviously there've been certain incidents in the intervening years where her directness has upset certain players, Mary Erps, buts she's stuck to the way she communicates. and I think You can't underestimate, can you difference in pressure not s being born in this country and how that You know how an English manager might communicate differently because of the weight of history. I mean, it's such an interesting debate. I mean, personally, I think the England manager should be English. I think it should be our best against your best. And if you build one hundred twenty million pound National football center, which is effectively a coaching hub at Staint George's Park, that is to create the coaches of the future who then go ono the the England job. But at the moment, who is there? I mean, it was really you know, Lee Carsley, Okay, homegrown Republic of Ireland International and Eddie Howe, maybe Frank Lampard longer term. So I think they're right to bring Tukele in and use him while he was here, while he is here to sort of help you know, nurture the next generation. But I think it's a really sentient point. I mean, I was at school in Germany as a kid in Munich and you did get to see that. They were literally practicing penalties in the kindergarten. it was almost that sophisticated. It looks a really important point that you make that he But here is this mix of someone who was emotionally engaged and he was really annoyed by the fact that there were fifty photographers. He had a bit of rants about it with us afterwards and with you guys. that he couldn't actually have that emotional connection with his players. And then he spoke very emotionally about all the people who'd helped him. It was almost like an Oscars winner speech. I was thinking, hold on may, he won one game. And let's remember It's indoors. And if you want to play this high press Premier League style up and atom game, it's going to be certainly different middle of the afternoon in ninety degree heat. But But helped with drinks breaks I mean, I know, you know, I don't want to get into because I think a lot has been said, but what is clear is those three minutes will help you reset if you have got a high tempo game, aren't they Yeah, but I think T cool and the top coaches, their ability to get instructions on to players. I think they can do that. You know, it's not as if every change that needs to be made has to be made in the twenty second minute. It might be needed in the eighteenth minute and he'll get instructions on them. I was meaning more physically actually Just having that three minutes to stop actually for the players. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting talking to them. a lot of them are not that impressed. They would rather have the momentum, particularly when they're on top. And the England fans certain I don't know whether the sound mics got turned down, but they certainly made their disapproval of the drinks breaks known. And I mean, I tweeted about it last night and I got a message back from FIFA putting it into to perspective Look, the heat will be an issue for England. I mean, I think you both were in Manausch in twenty fourteen when England played against Italy up the Amazon and England melted. But I think this is a slightly different generation and that they don't give the ball away cheaply, which is absolutely key. You know they can get the ball from A to B, you've got Bellingham in there. Kane. I mean Kane's role yesterday theyone focused rightly on the goal and he his nerves are steal with the second penalty. But Kane was just the tactical mastermind for this England win in terms of on the pitch in the way that he dropped off as almost in a number ten position and allowed all that pace, whether it was Madowi, Rashford when he came on Gordon less so he didn wasn't so influential, but Bellingham and Rice as well to break on onto and past the Croatian defenders. and There was a bit of naivety on Croatia's part, but all of this comes down to Tuckle's preparations. You know the deadballs as well. I mean to have O'Reilly and Stones as the blockers making Kane free. and then Kaine was one of the blockers and O'Reilly had a couple of headers. You know, it was interesting just looking at the bench, just coming back to the bench, Barry and Tule, and Kan scored his goal was a little bit like looking at the arrsenal bench. you know, they' prepared. It was the plants of everything they'd been doing in training bearing fruit on the pitch. I do think some of the stuff you both said there is also quite interesting because and this is not to take away from the performance and enjoy it But it is a World Cup where You're not properly going to be able to judge teams really, really until We're into the last thirty two or the last sixteen and then you see where they might I know we keep coming back to it as a possibility, but England away to Mexico in the last sixteen in Mexico City is a completely different game to Croatia under a roof in Dallas. And I don't think there's any it's not been negative, is it, Henry? by saying that you can fully enjoy a performance But there are caveats because You're you will be playing different teams from around the world in very differing conditions, depending where your path takes you. Yeah. I it's a really good point. But I think the fact that England don't give away the ball so cheaply, the fact that they will be able to punish teams from set pieces. I mean Delar Rice' deliveryies is obviously we've seen it from arrsenal. I mean, England would probably have Saker doing the Eng swingings for one side and rice from the others. But I think that's going to be really key as well. I's one of the reasons why Tull goes for for height. But yeah, look it is, but is it's such a positive start. And I think maybe Tul has looked at the balance of the team and seem actually, I mean, I'm sure Gre Mark Gay back in for Ghana, but looked at the issues in defence and thought, I mean, not quite Kein Keeegan, the great Newcastle enttertertainer style, but actually we might have to outscore the opposition. And you look at England's front six say when they click Proably got a better front six France, definitely. Portugal when they finally take Ronaldo out will probably have a good front seat. Won't be this well Cut, will it Well that's their problem and that will help England. But you look at Anderson, nothing phases him. lookook at that pass to Bellingham. Decklan Rice is just an absolute monster. How he playays. Is Decklan Rice just on that? because you were there last night, you know you could see the whites of their eyes. Should we be concerned at all, do you think about Decklland? I mean I voted for him as football of the year because I just thought he was outstanding for Arsenal and he and he won a trophy. I mean your point is about the sort of the amount of games that he's been playing. but I spoke to I bumped into Decklan Rice at an awards dinner and I saw him a couple of months ago. I don't know whether you've interviewed him recently, but he looks so lean I you know when athletes just get to that absolute pitch performance? going into Olympics. they look almost ill. They're so drrawn. He is just raked thin like a greyhound So he's absolutely up for this. He knows that this is his huge year and he's got the ability. Do you think they're managing him because of the slight kind of aggravation on his back? which I mean he can rest as many players as he wants against Panama, one would think. Can you foresee that happening? Well first he's got six days now before the next game against Ghana, so they've got a bit of a break Deklan walks through a Mixone last night and he said he's okay, he's okay. And you know what Decklin's like? Its like that Monty Python knight. I mean, you can chop all his limbs off and he will still be going up for corners. So I won't worry about Deklan Rise. When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant You keep production lines moving and quality on track because there is no room for slowdowns With Granger's vast selection of high quality motors, sensors, belts, and hard to find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place, so nothing gets in the way of getting the job done. Call one eight hundred Ranger, click ranger. com or just stop by Ranger for the ones who get it done. Y y just from a wider perspective. is this World Cup surprised you so far. It surprised me actually by how entertaining The majority of the games have been. Well, two things. F, the fact that managers and we shouldn't really expect this, but it's the impact that they're having. Tle at halfim, D shop at halfim has been absolutely huge But yeah, the freshness actually of the players. you know, obviously quite a few have been left behind. I mean you look at Indrland' strength in depth, the fact that Palmmer and Foden aren't here. But you look at Rashford, Rashford's dying to start and you may well do. and you know Gordon's been flying this season. So I think generally that the freshness of the players, they might see a dip because obviously there's an extra round to play It's a credit to the sports scientists, but also I think it's a credit to the players. I mean like I think about a third of the England players came out in advance of the training ground gates in Florida being opened. and they were there with their families, partly to sort of deal with jet lag, partly to acclimatize before the acclimatizing. So it's sort of a pre prep if that makes sense. So I think the application of also it's the World Cup. you know, you've covered World Cup. It's huge here. You just sense justust the scale of the occasion. you look at the stadiums as well. you know I mean these are magnificent. That stadium last night was off the scale. Oh the stadiums are looking redible incredible. What was also, I think, great about is you're always going to kind of you know bring the neutrals, if you like, along with you in a tournament, aren't you? It's like a big sporting event. It takes time for people to kind of come to the party. That twenty four hours where we had Mba arriving at the World Cup, Harand arriving at the World Cup, messy You know, I was thinking like overnight, come on, you've got to do this, Harry. You've got to join this quartet here because this feels like, you know, you've got to be in this group and he did. That's where for me it's kind of lit up now because you've got the big players and I don't mean big players in terms of them the big stars, the big global stars have arrived. Those ones you mentioned and I would throw Michael Eise as well, who I think could well be the player of the tournament. We've seen how good he's been during the season for Byen. I thought his movement, he was out wide and then played more of a sort of central playmaker and his connection within Bapping is going to punish a lot of teams. So yeah, all those you mentioned, but we talked to Harry on the eve of the game in the Match day minus one press conference Harry was absolutely up for this. He was looking around. He saw the world's media pointing their cameras and their microphones at him and he was absolutely ready for this. This is what he's been preparing for and dreaming of since a young boy growing up in Leyonson going out on loan to Orient to Licester and places like that working his way up. This is Harry's stage. This is Harry's moment. He's what he's thirty one, thirty two. This is his out and he knows that. Also the other thing with this tournament so far is two of the three hosts are off to a great star. And even Canada, which was a game you did Gabby, wasn't it? I mean they drew their own game. So all three host nations are off to good start. And as we all know from doing these things, it does make a difference. partarticularly I would suggest the Americans. Yeah, I mean, it's such a good point. I mean, South Africa in twenty ten when Bafana Bafana went out slightly controversially, you know, elements like that Korea Japan when when Japan went out, you know, and it was brilliant being over in Korea as well and the way they went through got to the semiinal and that whole country was parted. Absolutely you want the host. And you know what the Americans are like? They want winners and they want their US men's national team to do well And they played and that that game was definitely the game of the tournament so far when when it happened Chapers was across that one. I've got the privilege of doing USA Australia tomorrow and Australia obviously putting in a great performance as well. And so another big match, you know for the USA team, I think and that Rasmatas that they're attracting as well, I think it's not vital for the success of the tournament, but it certainly gives a different energy, doesn't it? when you get the nation that's not a football nation traditionally behind you. Yeah It's a really interesting point about the Rasmatas. I mean, it's certainly in pockets. You go to the big cities, obviously Boston with the Tartan Army, New York, LA, places like that. But until the Argentinians turned up in Kansas City He detected that there was some soccer going on, but apart from the occasional ad with Beckham and a billboard of Beckham, you know they actually it hasn't really gripped partly because the NBA finals has been going on the Stanley Cup. you know even the World Series for collollege softball championship has been getting a lot more traction in the media. Soccer know, I was here in ' ninety four and obviously it's moved a lot since then. MLS has been really important, Beckham and messy over here But it's not quite seized the whole of America yet. And that is why your point about the national team. with Pociertino doing so. well, that was such a key result for them the other night. Henry, we will we will leave it there If people can't check in my bags. Yeah, you have a flight to catch, I believe. Where are you going now, Henry? You're going back to Kansas City? back to it. Well England have moved their training forward. So I mean it's not going to be much of a training session, but heading back to Kansas City to see the team and there'd be a buzz around it. I remember those days doing that job, you'd kind of you'd rush back somewhere, thenen they'd chang training time. thenen you'd be sitting waiting to see who you're going to go interview Well, yeah, you're all definitely fit for this one, Henry. As you say, how many hundreds of years have you been doing this job? Oh ye quite a lot. This is my tenth World Cup and you know, it's the dream that keeps you going. Oviously it's a we're so privileged to do this job, but there's always that glimmer of hope