Faith and Future Ambitions

This episode is brought to you by Flexemoise, a multi-award-winning digital business lender dedicated to providing UK SMEs with flexible finance done properly. Welcome back to Port man Road . Burns, trying to find Jackson, it's Caiden Jackson! It's two-nil ! Oh it's Chaplin! It's Cody Chaplin! Jeremy Saviento! Jack Tada Welcome everybody to the official Ipswich Town Podcast powered by Flexor Mise with me, Aaron Paul. Great to be with you again this week where we've got an absolutely jam-packed episode on route. We've got the engine room, Massimo Luongo and Skipper Sam Morsio with us. They'll join us to chat about all things uh well tight face, I guess but first Andy Warren sits down with record breaker Natasha Thomas as she celebrates 150 goals for town winning . Tash thanks for talking to us. 150 Ipswich Town goals. Um you're smiling. Yeah. Um must feel pretty good. It is. It feels really good. Um of course it's been spoken of at the start of the season. Um I didn't want to put anything on it to say I wanna get the 150th this season. Um but happily it's come. So yeah, it feels really good to have that 150th, but at the same time, I mean, yes, I'm putting the ball in the back of the net, but I've got to have the girls there to assist me and um Peskett's been one of those this season but there's been many in other seasons as well so yeah I'm really grateful for having those players around me as well. Let's jump straight to the goal then. Um were you happy with the way that it came in terms of the hundred and fifty that you talked about Sophie there. Um bit of a Wes Burns kind of chaplin relationship there with you two, isn't it? It's quite nice that it came from a an assist from her. It is and um we actually spoke about it before. She was like, oh it's your hundred and fifty if you score today, isn't it? Or well she went when you score today and um I was like I I'd love it to be you to assist me because we've had that great partnership all season and again she's had a phenomenal season herself so to have her to be a part of something that means so so much to me is really good. But yeah, it was one of those as well where it was the first goal of the game. So I think it settled us down as well at the same time. And I think I remember my hundredth goal and it wasn't as as nice as the one that I scored for my hundred and fiftieth so yeah I'm really happy with that and I was able to put it in the bottom corner. A typical Natasha Thomas goal would you say? Well I can score different types of goals um as some of the girls will say but usually I score quite a lot of headers and things like that. But yeah I think I've just become more composed this season and the array of goals that I can score now thanks to the coach and stuff and things like that um I'm able to put myself in different scenarios to be able to put the ball in the net whether it's my left or right um or a header so yeah I'm really happy with it. Yeah some great photos still images video of course of the goals but the photos show what it meant to you didn't they so some great picks. Yeah no definitely I mean Ross always pictures them and it it's nice to have that um because obviously when I first started um there's probably not much footage or pictures or stats of when I first um came here to Ipswich so to have that behind us and all the support from the um social side of things as well, it it really makes it feel even more special. Yeah, let's rewind a while then. Um right back at the start, joining Ipswich Town, could you ever have imagined reaching a hundred and fifty being the first to do it and everything like that. No, and I don't think I ever set my sights for it. It was one of those where I just always wanted to help and support the team to um get the wins and obviously being a forward you got score goals. So no, I don't think I ever thought of that and probably going back to then when um Ralph who was the manager at that point he he was um trying to get me for a few years but because of my location and I didn't drive it it made it quite hard for me to um commit to Ipswich , but I made that step and got my driving licence, which helped a lot. But he he stood up and said to me, You're not gonna be the best player on the pitch, so you're gonna have to work hard for it. So ever since that day I've always pushed myself in training or in games um no matter who the opposition is. Yeah this this kind of obviously milestones are important individually. It's a team game. Great that the goal came in a win but to get that 1 50th goal that that must just remind you of all the hours both on the road driving because you have you tr you travel yeah to get here um and everything uh it must just remind you of all that hard work and make you feel that it's so worth it. Yeah, definitely. And I think um I think sometimes you just forget what you put in um week in, week out, year upon year. But for me, because I'm such a family person and unfortunately sometimes I can't be there for my niece's christenings, people's birthdays and things like that, but um my family um probably enjoyed it a little bit more than me as well on top. Of course I enjoyed it but to see the happy smiles and their faces and them calling me after the game and things like that it was really nice and it just shows all the hard work that I'm putting in is going towards something and it's not not all for waste and but yeah no I've been really enjoying it and the sacrifices we have to make but again like you say I've got that 150th goal so that's definit ely something I remember for a while. Have you always been like a natural goal scorer? Has it always come easy to you in terms of that side of the game? Yeah I think when I was younger I think my first ever competitive game I scored a triple hat trick, so and that was for Waveney when I was younger. But I actually used to play, I started off in centre midfield, and then I was on the wing, and then when I came to Ipswich, um Ralph was like, You're not a winger, you're playing up top, and he obviously saw that within me and ever since I've played Frips, which I've played as a forward. Yeah, how's your game changed over that time? There must be new things you've added in, ways you've adapted to the different ways that the team's played through the years. Yeah, definitely. I think it's one of those where the game itself has changed. So back in the days when I was a lot younger um it would be just hit the ball up to Tashes fast and she'll just run after it and put it in the net but the way we playing now the style from even the start of Ipswich Town to now it's just so different. Um the way we like to play it's it's not like a little bit like Sunday actually I didn't see a much of the ball but it's because of the style of play we were playing in the first half and how the oppos opposition had s um set up against us. So um yeah, it it's just little things like that, my hold up play that I've had to bring into my game. Because whereas before it was always just running behind um and it I think it's just I said before that I was quite dominant with my head and now I've been able to work upon my left foot my right foot as well at the same time so I think it's just the overall game and trying to be the best forward possible so depending on what team you play hopefully I'm that person to be on the team sheet. Yeah if you look back through those hundred and fifty, is is there a good mix in there then of red right foot, left foot, header would you say? I'd say so. Um it would be nice to know what it is, but I don't think we'll be able to get those stats. Um, but yeah, I'm pretty sure last season more than half my goals were headers, but this season I feel like I've been able to score left, right, as I said, and with my header, so it's just ensuring that like I said earlier if I'm put in a position where people are crossing the ball in or placing the ball in the air on the floor um just to make sure I can put myself in the best possible position to be able to score for the team. I don't know if he can be seen on the camera at the moment but Joe's behind us diligently setting up training. How big's he been for you and and the rest of the girls over the years? Really big and I think it's one of those where um I never really had as much of a coach as what Joe is, just even with the personal development that he gives to every individual player. And even if he's got not got the time, you'll have other people come in and we'll have like assistant coaches that have been here as well over the time. So I think for us it's not just about the team goal, it's about the individuals as well and the progress of them individually from our stats. So um halfway through the year you will get all our stats come through and we'll have meetings with Joe and things like that. So it's one of those where we do look upon what we're doing year upon year because we'll come in next season and the standards that we've set this season will be below par to what we're going to expect for the next season. But yeah, I think Joe's really good at what he's doing and I think everybody knows that from like you say he's now setting up and he does this all on his own but he loves it he really does love it and when we're looking back at our footage um at training because um we're lucky enough to get our training recorded as well and it's just so nice to see the highlights of training and what you're wanting to improve on week in, week out, even in training and not just games. Yeah, then and then to see the fruits of that on the on the field at the weekend must be great. But let's roll back through the 150 a little bit. I don't, but I know it was against Enfield because we did a little quiz um one of our away games and for the love of me I could not remember who it was against. I remember the colour of their shirt, but it was yeah, it was Enfield. But um yeah that was my first ever appearance and that was my first ever goal for the club. Yeah but you don't remember anything about how it went in anything like I don't no. But there must be some there's gotta be some along the way that that really stand out and um ones that you'll remember. Yeah absolutely I think there's quite there's a few that I'd like to bring up but I think it's the one um which I've said I'm pretty sure on socials previously is my Chichester goal at an FA Cup. It was just shy of the halfway line, just saw the keeper off the line, so I thought I'd give it a go and then over the top of her, just bounce straight back into the net. And obviously that was against a team that was a tier above us at that point. And then more recently I'd definitely say the MK Dons won this season. I think I came on towards the end of the game and managed to get us the three points and again that was Sophie Peskett that set me up. But yeah, another big highlight, obviously, we played at Portman Road and I was lucky enough to then be able to score the first goal and score the second one for myself. But the first goal at Portman Road definitely just because of it being in front of 10,000 people um the way it went in as well and it just smashed off the post um it just it was such a good feeling and to enjoy that with all the fans as well. Yeah so many people enjoyed that day um you guys as a squad that must have been so special. It was and it really was special and I think with um I know I personally I've played um in Cup games prior but the pitch itself so different the stadium's different. Um the feeling of walking out on the pitch was just totally different. Um and for it to be in a league game was really special for us and hopefully we'll be able to get some more games next season um and be able to show what we can do even more on the on the beautiful pitch. Yeah, for that many fans, a lot of them pretty young probably. Um that must have been great for you guys to know that you've there's some young fans there that are looking at you thinking, you know what, I could I could have a go at that. Don't inspire the next the next wave. And that's what it is about I think for us um is if you can see it, you can believe it, you can do it. Um and that's one thing that we just want to make sure that we're being able to be visible to those that maybe I didn't have as a child because I always only looked up to mayor athletes and things like that just because I didn't have the vision of being able to see the women's football. But yeah, it was amazing. Obviously, I I wanted to spend a little bit more time with them that I had um because unfortunately I had to pop off and do media and things like this. Obviously I love doing media as well but um we had to just let them know I'm gonna have to go back but I'll I'll come back. Um but yeah just to see their faces, um asking for pictures, getting autographs and that's what it's about. We do it at the AGL as well. So I think for us it's just making sure that we can help and support the community as well as doing what we love. Yeah, and a couple of home games left before the end of the season. Looking forward to those. So it's obviously not been quite the season that you guys would have hoped, but there's been some great moments in there along the way. Yeah, definitely. I think for us, yes, the goal was to get promotion and we know we were far off that um but also on the training ground we know what we're doing and how we want to play is starting to show a little bit more and it's clicking um and when we're at the bet our best no one's near us and we just want to make sure that um when we are on top of the game we need to be more clinical, we need to ensure that we're getting our um front foot on the game and just not being resilient to that as well. But yeah, two games to go so for a personal note it's been a very good season for me. Um so I'm just gonna keep on going and see where it goes because um there's also um a golden boot for the league to go for as well. So I wanna just keep on push pushing to get that. Um it would be the first time as well if I do so I think that's uh another milestone that I want to hit. Ye Yeah, and uh the milestone of 150 has been hit. What's what's next? Well I don't know. There's two hundred goals now, isn't there? Um I believe it's the all-time um um record for appearances as well to come up so it's not things that I'm looking at to do but it's one of those where they hopefully they'll come if I keep on performing and showing Joe and the training pitch that I should be here. Yeah well congratulations on everything that's that's happened already and best of luck for everything that's ahead. Thank you. And they give it all to us. Thank you. Hi, I'm Natasha Thomas and you're listening to the official Ipswich Town podcast. Funding your business doesn't have to be complicated . It doesn't have to take weeks. It doesn't need to involve your bank. At Fleximize, we believe there's a different way to do things. We take the hassle out of finance so you can get on with what you do best, running your business. Think of us as your trusty sidekick with the power to boost your business, with fast, flexible loans built for you. Visit us at fleximize.com or call our EpSwitch office on 0147-3-208-108. Pleximize. Business Finance done properly . So 150 up for Tasha. Can't wait to see her scoring some more goals at Towns women's team. Up next though, and you join me here at Playford Road as we sit down with the engine room, Kieran McKenna's engine room, in this formidable Ipswich Town side delighted to say that I'm joined by Massimo Luongo and Skipper Sam Morsey. Chaps it's been a long time coming this pod. I've really wanted to make it purely because I'm sorry to say Mass is my favourite town player. Oh no. Don't tell Ali. Um Mas , um you're you're you know I really enjoy watching you play. Cheers. Bit of a fanboy moment there. Skip, you're great as well. Um I was waiting for that. How's it be? And this time we can get an inside. For you guys in in this mad title race, it is the best championship title race in years. But just sort of like we're inside the camp right now. How do you feel? How's it how's it been ? How's it feel? Um I guess you don't really think about it to be honest. 'Cause obviously we started the season really well and before you know it we're up there and then you continue and then you keep it going and it's only probably of late really when you not even ten games, when you get into five or six games left it starts to feel like a title race, but up until then, to be honest, you just keep going, you're all experienced know enough to anything can happen in football. Um whether you start the season really well or end the season really well, your points are going to accumulate to whatever you get. So you don't really think about it too much to be honest. You just try, stay focused because you know like you said if you if you become too emotional involved in it it's probably not a good thing and ultimately whether teams around you win, lose or draw it shouldn't really affect you. Are you gonna run any more or run any less? Shouldn't really so you gotta try and just focus on yourselves really. Nice yourself Yeah I think um in the gaff and the start I've said it a lot like our day to day is just so detailed and which we go out there, we we we train really hard. We don't can't really do much more. Like everything we do Monday to Friday ultimately leads up to how we play on Saturday. Everyone knows their job, everyone knows what they're supposed to do. Might not come off the first time, it might come off the second time. So it's so structured in a way that is n yeah, obviously we have an eye on what's going on around us, but when it comes to game days , it's second nature to a lot of the players. We have almost two in every position that if I don't play, someone else plays and they pretty much with a their little bit of flavour and a bit of personality, but it it the roles are quite similar and um when it comes to game day it makes things your role and the details. Just it it's simple. And then so when it comes to games, I think it it makes things a lot easier on the way we structure our whole week and and how and how everything's going, yeah. I call you guys the engine room because it feels as though that is like the the double pivot where everything starts. And you guys have been the dominant pairing this season in the blue and white. Um you look at some of the other characters that have been involved, Don Ball, ha has played some games, Jack Taylor's been brilliant since he's since he's coming as has Lewis Travis in January. But it's it's been you guys. Tell me about Mass and Sam off the pitch, away from from the training ground, away from Playford Road, away from Portman Road. How do you guys cultivate and foster a good working relationship together? Because you're a partnership. You you guys are the same as a centre half combination or a centre forward combination you just play in the midfield you you guys have to be so intrinsically linked but how do you do it all right um off the pitch yeah off the pitch I think well, you know, it helps like we get on well and our wives get on well and children get on well and things like that, so I guess that helps. Um but I think it just you know, I remember the first sort of time we trained together properly in the same team and straight away we had a good relationship straight away and I think in midfield as well in particular you can have some players who might be two good players but for whatever reasons styles can clash at times and you not quite get the balance. Whereas you can play with some players where you just have a really good relationship and a good balance, and I think that was evident with me in mass immediately. And um, I think sometimes it's not even necessarily the best players, it's like you, know the, the most high profile case with probably the golden generation England. They had all the talent in the middle of the pitch, some of the best players in the world, but it just never worked, never clicked. So um I think Styles can definitely help one another. So yeah, we've managed to form a good chemistry on and off the pitch, play well, obviously played a lot of games together, won a lot of good games together, and I think we've complimented each other well and we've both been in good form this season. Mass, what's he like off the bitch? Because I mean I I watch him on a match day, it's it's warrior mode. That is it. Yeah, yeah. What's he like as a dad? Ah he's a great dad. I've seen him with his little one and he's his great dad. He's he's good with my kids. Yeah, you're you're really good with my little ones. I don't know, I think he he's definitely he never switches off. They tell you now, he's he's always on it twenty-four-seven. Um goes home, recovery goes home, does this for that. Even the manager said I'm probably the opposite. I'm you know I like to not think about football and go do my own thing and and uh is that what makes you so good? Maybe, maybe. I think I I think for the group it d definitely does. Yeah. I think uh day to day if you have two people who are just at it all the time and loud and tackles and bra and and it might go the other way but he's definitely the the standard he keeps in training is is is definitely needed and you need someone like that. If you have too many maybe it doesn't work out as good but yeah for every day is having Sammy in in the group is is is so beneficial um and sometimes having a yeah I'd say I'm quite lighthearted day to day like I just enjoy my train ing and joke around a lot. And I think I respect I think a lack of uh uh uh we I I I've always respect him, playing against him for years. I've always thought wow you know, I've always been on the floor most of the time. Um but I've always been that player that I've had to sort of do the other side of the of the the game for uh for example, a Barry Bannon so he can go and flourish, uh Luke Freeman at QPR. So I've always had to do the other side of the game for that person. And finally I've probably been a team where we both kind of share the load as well, and that really allows me, allows him to go and do something knowing that Sammy he seems like the cool little brother that ever brother, yeah, like that. Younger brother for sure. No, yeah, he's um obviously relaxed, chilled, um yeah, you like your coffee don't you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we have a little coffee group. Yeah. For sure. It's a it's a good dynamic like you said, I think you need um I say you need the right blend. You know, two of one isn't gonna isn't gonna work um and obviously come a match day he's super competitive as well um but yeah during the week he's relaxed he's a really good teammate um is light hearted and and like I said you need like for a really good team you need mixes of everything and um I think yeah we complement each other well he's um he's had a really really good season obviously the manager brought in uh Tails to compete with him and um mass has just gone up in his game another level and improved and I think that's something that we've both sort of prided ourselves on this season, you know, being senior lads but still trying to improve all the time. Would it be fair of me to say that the past few years when I think before Ipswich pre-Ipswich it been a bit like a rocky ride for you up and down through regards to clubs. What makes this place different when the call came to come to Portman Road, to come to play for Ipswich Town. Did you think, oh here we go again or was it a case of right, no, I wanna go and put roots down somewhere, what what was it? No, it was I was trying to get here in the summer before I came . Um but I've you know I had a tough time at Wednesday. So that a few a lot of injuries, consecutive injuries. I wouldn't say it's down to my body or anything, it was just probably at the time I was away from my family, I was living up there by myself, like just don't think in my head. We were in a tough t period of like going up and down. In my head it wasn't right and I think that reflected to me on the pitch. I think from now on everything I get my life sorted outside and it will reflect on on the pitch and me performing and me doing it every day. But coming here , yeah, I had a brief spell with McGaffa in um at Tottenham. Yeah. And I knew I knew he liked me. I think he was just a bit worried of my injuries and we had a few injuries here and he I got the call. I wasn't at Middlesbrough so I thought oh this is like a lifeline really and to be fair I thought I was gonna come in play straight away I, was gonna come in and be used . But it wasn't like that. He he brought me and said the boys have been, you know, Leev and Sammy were doing really well that you know you're gonna have to wait for a chance. Um that's fine, I'll come off the bench. Sometimes I wasn't even on the bench. So because Cam Humphreys is doing really well. So I ha even though I came, I probably didn't think Um It was going to be like how it was initially. I thought I'm coming as an experienced player to make an impact and but it didn't happen like that. Um because the boys and I I didn't I underestimate how they would train, I underestimated probably the level a little bit and how good they really were and then um with a bit of luck I got a chance and I knew if I got a chance, same as Mills, if I got a chance I'd I'd keep my spot, I'd at least show what I'm about and yeah. But it's so hard to get that chance. You need a little bit of luck at some at some stages of your career. Um and so I I put it down to a little bit of luck but also me just sort of being professional and just doing my job even though I wasn't playing and keeping as fit as I can and getting my life outside of football right and for my family and stuff like that. This is the best football I mean this is again uh an a journalist opinion but this is the best football I've seen you play in a while. Like I I remember you lung bust that QPR sm,ashing goals in from God knows where and and doing your thing and y you were you were so active and you were like a bit of a Tasmanian devil in midfield. You were just there and that's what everyone loved about you. Does he give you that? Is he that foil? Is he that perfect foil to say, right, gourmet your thing? Yeah. I've always QPR I had my best season. I had um Skoin next to me year after I had a Jeff Cameron. Someone always, even for Australia had Mila Yeddenek next to me and that's when I feel like I can do a little bit more and um League One was definitely like that. But you were initially playing my position weren't you? And then I was sort of more of the holding. But um yeah for sure. I've always cried out for someone to do the job I do for someone else sometimes. So I can have a bit of joy or can go for without worrying about what's behind me. Um and yeah, to have two Sam Orsi would be perfect, you know, you can do go forward, you can go back. But I think, yeah, I think we it's a great blend. Just for years I've been crying out just for a little bit of help. Other boys doing really well and I'm doing a lot of hard work, I'm thinking, ah, I would I would love to get forward and stuff like that. But this year is well especially last year as well, I got I was able to get forward a lot in the last few games and and and yeah, just express myself with it and enjoy it. I think win the game's back and forth and yeah I wouldn't say I've enjoyed football for a lot of my career but being here, win or lose, I think I've enjoyed a lot of the games. How's that impacted you? Not not enjoying it? Uh I don't know I've always I've always approached football as like it's your job and like game day it's like game day's the only day I don't enjoy. Monday to Friday, but before I came here, Monday I used to say Monday to Friday, I love it coming every day, training, being f keeping fit, playing foot ball. But Saturday you can't it's like you're I've actually got to switch on it. I'm I'm it's I'm in war mode, you know what I mean? And that's not I don't like being that. I like to enjoy my life and enjoy my football so um but yeah does that make him the perfect four? Because he's so focused, he's warrior, like there's a mentality about him. I think so, yeah. Because he he can do he does it all all week through where I'm a bit like, alright, game day I can alright, turn on mask, come on, be serious. And I've always maybe I've always had to be that person in my in my career, but you know, he's he's the leader, he's the captain, and and he does it really well, done it better than I ever did for any club, so um that helps a lot for me. I mean when when I look at you Sam um and you know outside of my role here I covered the championship I cover legal I covered the FL extensively for for a broadcaster . I look at you and I look at you as potentially if not the best leader in the championship probably the best leader in the 72 because of how you carry yourself and I was just speaking to one of one of your teammates and he turned around to me and he he you know he joined the club and he's he's talking about how different training is it's a world away and he goes if I'm not putting my way Sam Worse he's telling me I'm not putting my way or Keith Moore's telling me I'm not putting my way these standards you as a as a player I, know you've always had them, but it feels though something's changed in you over the last year, year and a half, two years. Is it success? Is it tasting success and realizing what I want more? I want I want to I'm so close to maybe the Premier League and and and the next step that it's there I need to cultivate that and I need to do that. I think um like growing up had really good role models. I remember there was um a box in a tie trainer called Joe B Clayton and in my summer holidays I used to go and train in the gym for like six-seven weeks, boxing, tie boxing, things like that and his story was he trains like some of the top UFC fighters and boxers now but at the time he was training local guys and um yeah like I think that really he really showed me what it looked like like from fifteen sixteen this is how you prepare this is how you look after yourself this is your mentality going into it. So that's something I've always enjoyed really. It's always I've always just thought you know do my best and then I can accept anything what happens in terms of if you give everything you've got, you can look yourself in the mirror, win or lose. It doesn't really matter. It's the um intention of trying to win. For me, that's the most important thing. As long as my intention's there , some seasons will go for you, some won't. It's that's football, it's life. Um I think Mass alluded to that little bit of luck, and you know, it's right, you need that little bit of luck they always say to you don't If you'd have played at Middlesbrough initially then you would have continued to play but it's just that initial and that look can be somebody gets suspended get gained somebody gets injured so um yeah in regards to that I think growing up really I was lucky enough to see see what it looked like really and then I've always sort of um I've kept that I mean I've got notebooks from when I was you know 15 years ago and things and I it's the same same things I was writing then are still relevant today really so nothing really changes. It's just about trying to stay on that, trying to lead, trying to do the best you can and yeah, like when you say one of the best leaders, I don't know if that's true. I think it's just a case of you have to you can't do everything, but you have to be selective in what you want to do and what you want to give. There's all different ways to lead. I've always wanted to lead by example. So if I'm telling someone to do something I'm I'm doing it myself. And I think that's the key one really. And um yeah you know younger players who um at the time are it's probably harsh on to be fair, but they've had good moves and said I've really helped them and things like that. It validates it really that actually, you know, you know what, you are making an impact and and everyone's different as well. Everyone needs a different style of of motivation and whatever and but um you know portvale under Mickey Adams it was very it was very straight to your face whatever bang no you're under no illus ion in what he thinks. You know, assistant manager, Jeff, like there'd be reserve games, you lose a reserve game, he'd go, look lads, all of you like you're gonna be stacking shelves next year. None of you are good enough and it would just be that brutal where you've got to go you know what way am I gonna go here I'm gonna have to make a difference or remember first team plays at Port Vale as well I was remember because 16 and the youth team we've come in we've come inside and one of the first team players said, Oh, you lot done? Everyone's yeah yeah. He's went, none of you will make it as a professional because you're not doing extras. So it's little so to me in my head that means okay, I've got to do extras every day. But yeah, from that brand of real sort of honesty and whatever. Obviously it's not always the right case 'cause especially now younger players wouldn't be able to take that, but it give me a good grounding on sort of what it takes. I I I look at you then as the the the perfect captain for Kieran because for Kieran it's about hard work, drive, passion. Someone called him the rain man of football the other day because he's just so obsessed and on on the the minutiae the the small smallest little details and the smallest things that could give us a competitive advantage on the pitch. But you seem like his perfect captain. What has working with him been like? What has winning with him been like for you developing you and and and keeping you on that path that you're on? Yeah really good. I think um we've had many man,y convers ations about this is where you're at and this is what you need to to do to get to the next level, obviously as a leader, as a player. Um and a lot of it comes down to details, like positioning on the pitch, little nuances which make all the big difference, but yeah, he's um you don't do what he's done without being obsessed, you know, his story of being loved for us studying and then how he's sort of rose up to um teaching kids and then a youth team then a coach and then now where he is now so he's obsessed with it he loves it he's studied hard you can tell that his um his mentors he's taken a lot from them he's obviously worked with some top people and there's no doubt that in those scenarios he would have been like a sponge and really took the things he like and yeah he's meticulous he's detailed and again it's the big challenge is always getting them offset yourself because I think that's a big thing with leadership you have to get the most at yourself but then at the same time even if I'm not playing well or I'm not in a good place I still have to push masks to be in a good place even more so . You know, I might not be having a good game, but I need to push Mass because maybe he needs to do something for the both of us. And I think that's a part of leadership. I think when you're younger, you're probably a little bit more insecure in terms of, you know, you're probably don't want to be getting on everyone if you're not playing well because someone might turn around goal I don't mean what you do but you get older and you realise and you understand that regardless of how you're playing your responsibility is to still push your players and um yeah try and get them the most out of. Such a interesting mix of players there in the squad so many different personalities. But with regards to the the risk uh the the brand of football um high risk, high reward, this team knows that opposition will have chances, but we have confidence that we'll outscore anyone and and it's just exciting to watch. How d how do you deal with keeping some of the younger heads in i check. I know I know you you just alluded to it there, but when I look at some of the the performances when people have made mistakes, how do you regulate things on field as captain? Because you are the voice on field. Yeah it's just different personalities. Everyone's different like when Amari came to the club initially um remember he was playing Swansea home and he's playing really really well and he's took the ball off someone he's gone through his mist and you could see straight away the body language went down straight away as if I missed a huge chance here but he was playing really well so he's just about obviously just telling him you know body language keep going get the other one and try and like give references really,. Like Sal ap, one of the best players in the world. Doesn't matter how many chances he miss, he's still the same in front of the goal. And I think someone like Amari, he's really developed that over a season where you know, one chance isn't going to def ine you. You might have ten chances. Doesn't matter. Keep going. And I think he's really sort of upped his game and become more ruthless and scoring. And but all young players are different, like Ali's a different player, Jezz is a different player, Harry Clark 's still very young. So they're all different personalities and they all need they all need different things really. At times, some need probably a rollicking and some need an arm around the shoulder. It's just depending on on the person ality and and where you think it is and and again I'll go back to when I was younger and I don't know if it's the same case as you but your best lessons was when somebody was honest with you really honest it's not all yeah keep going keep going, it's actually you know, look this, is where you're at, this is what you're doing, this is what you need to work on. And at the time you might not like it, but whether it's a month, year, a few years down the line, you actually go, Wow, you know some of my biggest lessons were when in the worst times, you know, whether that being a manager saying no, you know, you're not going to be for me and this is why, they're probably your biggest lessons. Because ultimately, you know, me or Mass with senior lads, we're not going to say to a young lad something that he's not doing we're gonna tell them the truth ultimately and if players are like mature and self-sufficient enough to look in then they'll probably realise it. Max how how do we deal with defeat? How do we deal with bad results? How do we deal with poor performances? I mean, I ask you guys these questions because again, I feel that you are you both, you see everything. Where you stand, you see everything. Um how do we deal? Ipswitch, how do we deal here? We're we're quite um it's as I said it's on the training pitch. If we have a bad performance obviously we regardless of the result, even if we win and we have a bad performance, we we're straight we pride ourselves on our performance. Um I think this year we've had a little bit of a a lot of players anew to the championship. I think the Sunderland game is a perfect example. We, first game of the season, come off, we won two, one , like dug in deep, but we didn't play that well. You know, it was probably the first experience we had where a team's outplayed us and had more possession than us. And we've come in the change room and boys are not happy with the performance. And that that's called been the ethos, kind of been the ethos of the whole, especially the 18 months I've been here, of like we pride ourselves on the performance. And if we don't play well, you know, we we analyse the performance. But you know, we've grown to sort of the Blackburn game, you know, we're holding on one nil up. You know, um c I think boys have learnt that like in the champ, you know, you there are other ways to win the game and and we have our identity, but sometimes when we see, you know, a big tackle from someone or you know, a striker tracking back and like they're the they're the little things that sort of will get us going now, whereas before it was like perfect play and trying to score and now it's like digging in deep tack les, second balls, tracking a man, just simple things like that. Yeah. So we going back to your original question, it's just Monday, we just go back and we just work on we work on it in the training ground and and the characters we have we we just get on with it and I've never remembered a loss where we've been quite down on the Monday after the loss or the or or the Wednesday or Thursday when we've been in. So um yeah, I think we just crack on and move on to the next game. Sam, we're just coming out of um Ramadan. Um Eve was what two weeks ago. I just want to ask you, your your your faith is such an important thing to you. What does it give you in your day to day life in terms of discipline, in terms of what you do and how you operate as a man and and on the pitch? Yeah. I think it gives um gives meaning really. I think a lot of a lot of people, especially young men in today's world, they struggle with meaning and purpose. And I think that's probably the root of a lot of mental health problems. And I think especially when people retire, again the meaning and purpose they realise they don't have any there was just a footballer and you equals enroll around games because that's what that's what elite um environments they cause don't they really? Your whole life's football, boom boom boom. And if you only have that then you could potentially struggle. So it gives meaning, um it's a compass for your life, it's i it's humility , it's striving to be a better person, that's what Ramadan's all about really. Um, you know, becoming closer to God and striving to be a better person. Um and that's that's a journey, you know, I'm not perfect um you know would never sort of claim to be or whatever we all have our different vices and you know we all have things that we need to work on but I think that's a journey and I think it's important to to be on that journey really of self discovery and trying to be a better person for your for your family, for your friends, for your community, for people who look at you and um and see something and yeah, you know, we we're all human, we all um we all make mistakes and things like that but yeah that that's the journey I'm on really which helps me um in a lot of ways on and off the pitch. Um yeah, gives me good grounding. Do you think you've changed the season? Do you think as a person, as a player, do you think you're different? Um I don't know. Probably haven't saw it myself, but you know, not sure . Not sure. No, I've never met I've never met Sam before here, so he's been quite level from between the two seasons I've met him. Yeah, it's pretty pretty much the same. It's hard to know because we're in the environment together every day and every whatever it's I would like to have known you when you're not a captain somewhere, what you would have been like. Yeah. You know, when Middlesbrough Johnny Alison's obviously the captain. Yeah. Were you still the same? Yeah. Yeah. I think that was probably um an undoing in the end to be honest. Who do you model yourself on as a leader? Who inspires you ? Um There's there's all sorts of people really, there's all sorts of leaders. You know, I look at like my dad. You know, my dad came from um Egypt when he was 21 and he's made himself to be a huge success. He's opened the Islamic Centre in Warhampton, he has a lot of people working for him and so he showed leadership in that way. He obviously looks after all the family in Egypt, provided him with jobs, so there's a great amount of leadership there. I think I used to watch um obviously grown up by Roy Keenan, my favourite player. But then even that, like the the opposite of that, I used to love the Spanish midfielders, Javi and Yester Busquettes and they were so different. I used to watch them and the mannerisms and the body's just so calm, so relaxed, so whatever. These are my favourite people as well. And then I look in sport like you know the the Michael Jordans and but I no I wouldn't model myself for Michael Jordan because that's just a real ruthless level of leadership which I wouldn't want to be that ruthless but again you can see why um so people are that really but again I'm always just trying to learn and read and you know like Islamic leaders or business leaders or just try and always see what it is. Um one of my good friends worked at Chelsea and he used to ask him about Thiago Silva a lot and I know he was a very, very different sort of leader. Like quite quiet, keep himself to himself, keeps a distance. So there's all there's all sorts of leadership. His wife does the talking for him. His wife, exactly. Exactly. So I think there is all sorts of leadership and then I think the thing with le leadership is is that um when the team's going well you probably what a leader when the team's not doing well. Do you know it's yeah we need someone else so that is a reality as well. You're probably judged when results are going well you're brilliant and results aren't going well it's your fault and probably neither are true. It's probably in the middle line of you know you're trying to do the best job you can, you're trying to do the best of your ability and And again it comes back to that honest conversation with yourself. If you're trying to do your best and you fall short, that's better than you know not doing your best and probably winning. Mas with with regards to this season, um you look at the teams battling out at the top end, uh three teams relegated from the Premier League last year, two with some mad financial situations and and a lot of pressure on them to to to return to the Premier League instantly. With us it actually it feels as though there is pressure because there was always is going to be pressure to win but there's also not pressure. There's an element of let's go and enjoy this ride let's let's enjoy it and that's one thing you get when you come to Portman Road to watch a game. You don't know if you're gonna watch a game where you are frustrated at the end of it or a Sheffield Wednesday when you sit there and go well we should have hit 15. But that's the beauty of this football club this season there's so much to enjoy and look forward to and the journey however it ends has been incredi ble. Oh, yeah, for sure. I think last year probably had a bitter sense of that, because we well when I come in was the the goal was get promoted, go up, go up, you know, invest in players that would take us up. Um this year, I think from the start it's been Well let's just see where we can go. Let's just see believe in our style, believe in our our group and you know, listen , it's not gonna always go away. We always spoke about how well we'll react when we don't win because coming from League One probably not used to not winning as much. And uh you know for a long time we didn't really get that experience did we? So um and I feel like that's been a big thing for us that we've we just bounced back we you know we don't play well once we got away with a win but we go and we go and back it up the next week. But yeah, I think a lot of boys are playing have played this season with a lot with no fear. Maybe there's still the buzz of promotion and stuff like that. But with with no pressure on themselves personally, I think. That's probably it, knowing that we're probably coming as underdogs in the season and the expectation was middle of the row. And we've just blown it. We've blown it out of the park. And rather than look at promotion, we look at where the other teams are at, we look at you know, we're the best what was it? The best ever team that got promoted points wise or something. Wedding. Yeah. Um Southampton. We got promoted from League One. Yeah, that. from League One Yeah, from League One to Champ, we've got the most points. So we look at the the things that we that we we have control of over. And the manager's really good at sort of making sure that we know that whatever we are in control of then that's what we can affect and and and that's the best bit about it. Sam last question on this episode goes to you. However it comes, whatever happens, it's it's obviously been an incredible season. But when you strip it back, what would it me an to lead this team, this football club to the Premier League again? Because no matter how much we sit here and we say nah nah nah, we're focusing on the job, it's it's there. The goal is there. Yeah, no, you can't hide from it and you shouldn't hide from it either. You know, it's there in play inside. Maybe if you've got twenty games left, it's like okay. But with this little games left, it's um you know it's inside. Um of course you can only be at one destination at one time. So we'll take it one game at a time of course. But you know, from the moment I come in the support from the club's been overwhelming to be honest for like for me and for all the players really. Fans genuinely really really love the players. We know the club have had some dark times, it's had uncertainty. They've been not the happiest with previous owners and things like that, so nah, to be able to do it would be pff d be a lifetime of work, you know, to do it, I think for a lot of us really. It would yeah, it would be incredible, it'd be no doubt the best sort of um experience of our football careers, our best achievement of our football career so yeah it 's a lot to play for. But we'll go out, we'll enjoy it and we'll give it everything we got. We'll fight to the end, we'll give it everything we got and let's see if it's enough. I know what goes on in the dressing room stays in the dressing room, but whatever our last game of the season is, if it's Huddersfield, if it is wherever, Wembley, I don't want it to be, but I want it to be Hudd as field. What will you say to the players? What you say to your your your teammates as you lead them out at Portman Road? What's the last thing you'd say? Because I'm sure the supporters would love to know as well.. Yeah Probably haven't thought about it yet to be honest. Probably haven't thought about it. It it is one of those, it's probably cliche to sound but cliche to say but the important game is a whole game. That's the really important one to all the focus, all the energy into haul after hall we'll uh we'll have a look at the next one but it's all energy on hull and that's that's a big focus. Do you plan things in terms of like when when you have those like those those little bits, those little things that you say that to to motivate everyone, the last message, do you plan those or are they here at the moment? Is it you know busked effectively? Um I I think sometimes yeah sometimes it'll be like a certain message you want to give depending on the game. But then other times it's just yeah, you just want to be authentic really. Which you know, whatever comes out. But you you always want to prepare for it, um depending on the game and a certain message and might might be a certain team and but yeah I think sometimes I've you know I've done this a long time captain a couple of clubs um couple hundred appearances as a captain so yeah, you learn just how to manoeuvre and pivot in any situation. I think I speak for everyone, the fan base, the staff, you name it when I say we're so proud to have you as as captain in this football club, like it genuinely is it's incredible. We've got an incredible leader um um we've got someone brilliant who plays next to you as well as some of the other lads you think of of of of lewis travis who's done so well since he's coming jack taylor's been brilliant don ball mass just a bit of a bit of love for for the other lads in midfield in the engine room. Yeah, no, honestly, they um it's funny how we structure it. I'm always with Jack, the other boys uh always we skip like um in a group 'cause we play on different sides but um it's funny because whenever they come in it's you know I've I've actually never the whole season I've never thought my spot is safe. I've never thought like Are you allowed to be in the same team as you have? Yeah yeah it can' bet now that. it can be But yeah, I've always they've always pushed we've all pushed each other. I think um I've I've been lucky enough to form a good relationship with Sammy and and have last year as a bit of a pedigree to go into this year, but I I didn't think I was gonna play this this this much um and you know Tails when he comes in is is is different but brilliant he's been brilliant in training he's brilliant um and Trav's been a really good asset for us um with his leadership and his his experience in the championship. So yeah, good lads as well. I think Don Ball, great lad as well. I think Charles's been like breath of fresh air as well, and he 's like even though he hasn't played much, he's like enthusiastic, wants to win every day, wants to whatever. And like you don't always get that dear. If someone comes in and they don't play, it can easily go the other way. Just naturally really. You know, you only have to be a bad person. It's just you can be defeated. Yeah you might drop off or what's the point kind of thing? But he's kept like high spirits. He's he's brought a lot to the group to be fair. Yeah. It's it's a good yeah, we don't see it as yeah, it's competitive, but like as I said, they're great lads. Yeah. Push each other. Um and I've just been fortunate enough to be picked on the weekend a little bit more than I probably thought I would have been. But and then whoever plays we all as you can see probably see we all give our all. Fun, are you having fun again? Ah yeah, love it. Loving every minute of it. Yeah. It's amazing. That's it. Thank you, Sam. Thank you, Mass. Really have appreciated your time on this episode of the official Ips of Shound podcast on Town TV. Thank you for joining us. Best of luck for the last few games whatever happens we know it's going to be exciting isn't it because this team never ever fails to uh to get us off our seats it's gonna be great uh thank you for joining us on this episode of the official extra town podcast powered by FlexMise, catch up on more via itfc.co and Town TV.