Magical European Nights and Derbies

This episode is brought to you by Flex Mise, a multi-award-winning digital business lender dedicated to providing UK SMEs with flexible finance done properly. On April the 28th at Portland Road, you won the championship of the first division in your first season and how do you feel? That's all fine. And I'm delighted. I'm delighted for everyone . And Ipswich win the cup for the first time in there this three the flag is up for off stride against Brazil and it's the twin the Europe an on an aggregate of five goals of four and for the air to bring success at European level to little market town like which is quite a feat. Support line is provided by Clapham. It's Clapham's got it. Stewart! It's three-wide ! And Supper slips the premier check! Championship bound Ipswich Town Welcome everybody to the official Ipswich Town podcast powered by Flex amize and to two special episodes that celebrate 14 5 years of our brilliant football club. Founded in 1878, Town turned professional in 1936, with success coming in 1962 as Sraalf Ramsey guided his team to promotion from the second division and then the first division title in back to back seasons. Then came Sir Bobby Robson's side who lifted the FA Cup in nineteen seventy eight and the UEFA Cup with that five four victory of AZ Alkmaar in nineteen eighty one. Town also had stints in the Premier League, dining at English football's top table following promotion in nineteen ninety-two and two thousand. We'll also look back at a magnificent twenty twenty-two-23 campaign under the stewardship of Kira McKenna. So let's get straight to the action. I'll leave you in the company of Matt Holland, who's joined by George Burley, Brian Hamilton, and Mick Stockwell for a trip down memory lane. So guys, thanks for joining me. Uh 1 45th anniversary of Ipswich Town Football Club, believe it or not. You almost remember every year, don't you? Almost. Almost. Believe it or not, I think we we covered thirty two years between us. Um an era of thirty two years. But we were all together at the club at the same time. Ninety seven, ninety eight. Good year? Good year. A very good year. I loved it. Vintage. Loved it. It was arguably. I mean, I've been very fortunate to have over a long career had many jobs. But I think when George asked me to come back and work with him that year, uh it was arguably one of the best years that I can remember my career. Because it wasn't the manager's job. I I was happy that George was very able to do that, and I was just working with the players and working with George, and I would say that was as much as I enjoyed my playing time, that year coaching and working with George and the players was fantastic. Was it your favourite yeah? Because you you obviously were a player that were very successful. Remember that year because that was the year where I never got a word in really basically. So were you manager? Were you manager? I told them to shut up there we go . Because I was manager. I mean there was so many great years um over playing, um managing, um yeah y you got a lot of ups and downs but there were ninety nine percent ups and, to be at a club at a time as a player, it couldn't be any better. Uh, under Sir Bobby, under the quality we had in the team, you know, right through the years. I think Brian came the same year as myself in 1971. Yeah, and it went from there winning FA youth cups, you know, 73-7 5 . The years, you know, people talk to me when was you know you 'd most enjoyable time. You know, being apprentice at Ipsy's was incredible because you know when you're a young boy you dream about want to be a professional. So you know, you actually get a chance and you come to a club like Ips uch, a family club, under Sab i, and we're such a close-knit community. You know, the players, we did everything together, we scrubbed b toathgetsher, we washed toilets, we cleaned the stands, we went out for lunch together, we came back, we were out everywhere together. So that was incredible. And we won a nephew kept up 73, 75, was a tremendous feat. You know, people forget about that. And that was all down to Sir Bobby, going all over Britain, picking the best young players they could, bring them to Ipsy, having the best coaches, Cyril Lee, Bob Effigs and Charlie Woods. And br you know How did how did that come about though, that that the scouting network and then going around at that time as well to go around the country and getting those players? How did that happen? Well, it was down to hard work. Officer Bobby. He could see he didn't have any money. How are we going to make our top team? He couldn't buy it. So he was wanting to produce it. So he'd you know ch ief scout call called Ron Gray. Yeah. Ron was a big big personality. He would go to the youngsters, to the mums and dads and get everybody excited from it. You have regional coaches. Um we had uh a lad called George Finley, he was the Scottish ones, up the North East, um boy Carruthers. So he brought it all together, even Sir Bobby even went to my hometown in Ayrshire to watch practice games. You know, that's four hundred miles. Well you see I mean it was his personality and I agree with George. I mean he had this uh picture of what he wanted but as we all know and it hasn't changed from even from then to now. Recruitment is key. Yeah. And I remember him just echoing what George said. I remember Plane uh we did something in at the training ground, he said, um I want you to come with me to Northern Ireland. I went, Yeah, sure. And what he did, he was smart enough to know that I was an international player and was able to travel with him, but he was even looking at players in Northern Ireland. So what he wanted to do was sort of bring the club to them and say, look, too. Did he buy Alan Hunter? Do you Hunter? He bought Hunter to New York. No, no, Hunter. Hunter, to be honest with you, you know I'm not a fan of Alan Hunter. But no, no. Alan Hunter and I are big friends , but I've got to say, and I've said this many times, and recently when B Blackburn came down, because Alan came from Blackburn, uh George has touched on, you know, what how it all started and and really I think Alan Hunter was arguably one of his best signs . He was influential on the pitch, but he was also influential off the pitch. He was a larger than life character. And if you talk and George can speak on him its elf, but if you talk to Surrey Terry or Russell or Kevin Beattie, God bless 'em, they will always tell they all tell ya that Hunter was influential. And if you had Hunter one side of you and Mickey Mills the other s I mean you had a shed load of experience, people who can help young players, and they were very, very important at that time. But he only signed signed thirteen players, didn't he? Mm-hmm . Yeah, I mean you know, Mick will tell you, you know, the way you brought up it, the coaching system, the way the band's, you know, standards. Um and we didn't sort of say right, okay, just get on with things. You had to set a standard everyday in training, you know, and match it. And you'd people like Alan Hunter and Mickey Mills who were there to support you, you know. Like you always think, you know, how you know how will you brought up? Yeah we brought up with coaches but you're also brought up with other players with experience and we had great pros but if you didn't mess about in that training ground the players were on you the coach was on you and Bobby Robinson was on you. You know, and I can remember things that happen if I'm out training and I have a sloppy pass, or if I'm doing a shooting drill and a whack it over the bar, they're on you at Tiny Bricks. You know, and that was the way I was brought up and that was the way I tried to be as a manager as well. Cause you've got to set standards. You know, out there, doesn't matter whether it's a Saturday, every day in training, you have got to get things right. I saw you nodding, Mick. I mean you obviously came through yeah the system and you the school of hard knocks and well it was yeah I mean it you was coming into a club with probably the best team, didn't win the title, but probably had the best team in the country at the time. And as a young lad, the senior pros , they run pretty much the dressing room areas and everything else and you had to tread lightly and be very polite and do your jobs and then try and learn from, you know, top top players. I mean, I think Bobby's northern roots was the reason why we had so many like Scottish um northeastern I mean I was almost sort of um an Essex boy who should have been a local and I I was nominally really in the in the club, you know. Um if if I I didn't speak quite right, Bobby Ferguson or Charlie Woods would jump on me because I thought he was a cockney and things like that. But the standards were high were high. It wasn't for everyone. I mean it was a tough upbringing. It was uh it found out who had um a toughness . Had a character, yeah, it did. But I think it's also I think it's also the moments in time. You know, when I think back over the years, there's moments in time where you think things come together. And it happened for George with your group, Matt, and it also happened for Bobby Rob son with the group that we' spveoken about. And I've told the story so many times, but I do think it was absolutely crucial for Ipswich Town and Bobby Robson's career at that time. Because he had come into the club, he wasn't he hadn't got a great time at Fulham, he hadn't had a great time at Vancouver. And he was coming in here, and this was looked upon as a very good club, but a bit remote from the the your Arsenals and Tottenham and all the rest of it. But I remember the season we arrived, George, and it was indifferent. And we didn't do fantastic, we did okay, but we didn't do fantastic. And the pre-season was ordinary, was very ordinary. And we came back and he had signed uh signed Allen, Kevin Beattie was emerging, George Burley was emerging. There was a as George spoke about the young players coming through, and there was a coming together of that group. And we had a pre-season, which was just okay, we'd go, I think we'd go in the middle wall and draw and hadn't played very well. So people weren't expecting great things from us per se for the whole season. And our first game was against Manchester United at Old Trafford, and of course, no matter whether they were, you know, they were still always a fantastic side with law at Charlton Best and and just old the atmosphere at Old Trafford. So nobody expected us to do anything. And we went up there and as George was saying there was there was a coming together of a group of people who you just felt that m this might happen, you know, with a little addition here and there. And um we won the game two-one and we we deserved to win it. Trevor Weimar, who was a you know fantastic player, maybe didn't get the credit he got or he deserved from the supporters, from us. He was an amazing player. An amazing player, an amazing professional. And we won the game 2-1. And then when we came back, we won. I think we won the next game and the next game. So all of a sudden there was a um you know, a momentum building within the group. David Johnson had arrived, uh, and we had got pace, we got'd Beattie, we'd got Burley, we'd got Hamilton, we'd got Hunter in the squad. Uh uh aided and abetted by the people who were established, like Colin, Viljohn, uh Mickey Mills, you know, there was it there was that happening. Yeah. And that season started to take off. And we went on the bigger and better things. And I always say that that was the start. You know, he'd been here a season. He had sorry laid the foundations. Yeah, I think he'd had his troubles to get w r uh one or two players out of the club and bring one or two in. But I felt at that time that was the start of the Bobby Robson era. And that's the that's for me growing up is the the team that I remember, your team that the that won FA Cup seventy-eight, one eight the Aether Cup in eighty-one. D before you signed for the club, were you aware of Ipswich Town and what it was about because Sir Alf Ramsay had won the league, hadn't he in 62? Were you aware of that or I wasn't even aware where where Ipsis was. I just knew it was a long way. No, I think um I mean I I think uh I came down in Easter um and me and this boy called Kenny Taylor were the two first ever Scottish boys to sign . And I think you get a feel about it. But as I say, it was a dream to be offered. You know, I was I played Scottish school boys. I'd have been trial I was in trial at Leeds United um and I came down here in Easter and they offered me a contract so it was you know fantastic. You weren't aware of how big Epsy could be, you weren't even aware, coming from Scotland where it was but you had the feeling and so Bobby was very persuasive, Ron Grey was a big personality, and it moved from there. You know, and it and it really did and then and it gave you the flavour , you know, we we qualified for Europe in 72 and and then it moved on and I was lucky to, you know, I was here for two years and made my debut, you know, when I was 17 yeah old Trafford I go bestie. Yeah so yeah yeah well he only not maybe three times you know so I had a good game so as I say seventy-two to eighty two I think it was only one year we qualify for Europe yeah and people can talk about teams, but there's not many teams in England that can do that from nothing, from no money, bringing young players through, showing them right habits. And we were renowned as a good passing team. And why we were a good passing team? 'Cause every day we used to do root routines or passing drills. You know, I know David Johnson said, Oh, the gaffer only does the same things every week. I thought, well , you've got to get the basics right. Well we did we did a passing draw every day, didn't we what does what does Rory Markle Roy do if he plays four rounds of golf there, you know, five L's there, he goes straight back out to practice hitting the ball afterwards. I always say you get you get the basics right and basic is repetition, passing control, passing control, even now Morga Tony Morbury came up to say Vino keeps doing your passengers. Yeah. Marcus Schutz says Gaffa. I'm still doing it. I still want you. So we did something right and that's the way I was brought it up. I think I think that's an interesting thing, isn't it? In terms of the managers as well, wanting to improve the players that they had as well. I think that I always tell the story about George improving me as a player individually, and you have the golf analogy, didn't you? Used to say to me, you've got the driver, you've got the three eye and the four iron, but you haven't got the nine iron, you haven't you haven't got the nine iron the sand iron or whatever, the little finesse. Yeah you've got your I was very aware of how good it's which was yeah because when you arrived. Yeah because as a young lad I'd watch these two. My dad was a carpenter, he built me a stool. I used to come with my dad, mum, brother, set up my stool, watch the game run, the chicken run. I was at Leighton Orient as a school boy and I played at 15 for the under-18s at Leighton Orient against Ipswich. Ron Gray came up to my parents and my dad had to try and get me released from Leighton Orient so that I could come and sign here. I was quite a big thing at Leighton Orient and thinking but you know guaranteed this come in. The standards were so high, the young players were so good that you realised that you're a small fish and how hard you had to work. So the other thing I would say, just going on from what you're saying, and here George, and he's not wrong. Um and I think it's like and we have been managers so we have an understanding of what you need to sort of make sure that you're comfortable in your job. Because he had a he had a fantastic chairman. He had a fantastic chairman. And and and I think that what he did, he allowed Bobby Robson to show how great he was. Because we played in the game, I don't know how he played George, we played United and we lost heavily. If anything it was arguably Bobby'd made a mistake because they they came down here and and it was just the game before, I think two games before he sent Alan Hunter. And what he did, he decided that he'd go ten against ten and put Colin Harper on George. Well George, as you know, I mean could play anywhere. He could play outside right, outside left, centre forward. And Colin, lovely lad and a very good left back, that wasn't his great strength. He that was his position. And possibly, possibly, maybe Mickey Mills would have been the better option if that was the way he wanted to go. Because George Bess on the night was fantastic. I mean fantastic. And the the crowd here who are all was very good. I mean we have fantastic support. They sort of were a little bit restless and they they you know they made it uh knowing that they weren't happy. And the next day, then this story's I mean it's been led to me by Pat, who we know was very close to Bobby , that Mr. John decided, asked Bobby, could he come and see him the next morning? Well, we know you've lost heavily. The performance isn't great and the crowd are unhappy. It's not a great sign. But the story goes that Mr. John said that Bobby Robson will you be in the next morning? And he said, Of course. So he said, I'll come and see you. And he came in, and again, it's it's been re-led that he actually apologized to Bobby for you know the way he was treated occurred and and uh uh he offered him another contract and I think for any manager and I've been in the situation that if you have got that support what we all do yeah but I mean that support doesn't happen anymore. That's the reality of uh football. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well that you know I don't think it's a good thing, but that's the reality. Everybody wants instant success and as a manager if you don't get it, you know what's gonna happen. You know, you know, you don't get the cobballs anymore. What are your dealings with the cobbals? What were they like? Yeah, I mean what they they were the old school where a manager was a manager . These days it's not always the case. A manager picks every player they wants into there or talks about his contract or does that. They let Bobby do everything. Bobby did everything at this club, picked the grass seed back for the groundsmen and that, was there with the washer ladies and he did everything, you know, and he was he probably left about half past eight at night, you know, he was doing things, he was always first here, last to leave. But that that has changed a bit. But Bri Brian's right if you could get that. But that's not possible. But I think we're talking about really Ips Town Football Club and what number is it? Hundred and forty five. Hundred and forty-five. Now there's been so many things taking place. And George mentioned it, you asked a question about Sir Alfred , Alf Ramsey's era. And they did fantastically well for a small club like that, the win the the first division, was outstanding. And one of the pleasing things for me was as you know our former players association is str and we uh we run the Hall of Fame uh which is annually and everybody joins in. It's very it's very well thought about. And I thought it was amazing that the likes of George Burley and Mick Stockwell and myself and yourself included were able to honour those gu ys. Because I thought when having met them, they were fantastic men, you know, Ted and Ray and J Johnny Moran and Larry Carbrey. And and and I think that if we are celebrating uh the years of Ipset Town Football Club, I think you've got to speak about that period. There's no better man than you because you're the you're the oldest, so you can you can speak more about it than we'll be not speaking. I've got to say somebody else who who picked this football club up when it was at a very low ebb was John Law. Yeah. We were in a right mess. No disrespect to John Duncan, but it didn't go well. And the f the football club had very little in the way of players or and within two years that man came in and turned it right around and and brought in players like Tarico and and and we give George afterwards as foundation to actually move on for you've seen it quite a few of the years though because you came in 85 so you'd have played with Butch, Russell Osman. I didn't play with Russell, played with Butch Butch, and then obviously promoted first season in the Premier League as well, didn't you? Yeah. So first season in the Premier League. Then promoted again with us in 2000 as well. So you've seen a quite a bit of seen a lot of changes and lucky enough to play under uh you know two top managers, George and John Lyle. For me were top managers. But John made John Lyle such a good manager, Mike, what was his great strengths? He had an aura about him. He he was a a people's person. He treated you like a man, you know, really respectful, but tough if you anyone was out of line. Great football knowledge, you know. I can remember Sam Allardyce saying there wasn't wasn't a West Ham way. Well, John came in and literally after you know John, Duncan, we were playing half half term and all this sort of stuff. And and within two years we'd won what is now the championship to go into the Premier League. And I think after that, John decided he moved upstairs and I think he'd shown people what he could do and he did it but he was at that point in Ipswich Town's history he was needed. It was vital yeah. It was vital because he took the club we were you know and at that time halfway down what would be the championship now was not we've just seen we've just seen it now really haven't we the the depths that the club have been in recent times and you're talking about in league One and obviously the new ownership and the Kieran company. To be all fair, it was a little bit like what's going on with Kieran now. Yeah. So one person comes in and lifts it, and then you know there was a basis of some decent players, and then George came in and he was able to put his stamp on it and bring in his players and the likes of yourself, and we had young players coming through as well, and it started to feel like Ipswich Town. Yeah. So like Ipswich Town, what when you say like Ipswich Town, what is Ipswich Town then? What what would you how would you describe it? So if someone came down from Mars now, landed there, we' talreking Ipswich Town. How would you describe it? I I would call it a family club. I would call it a club where they want to invest uh in youngsters. They want um people to um improve themselves uh with the basic um attacking passing football which excites the fans where they want them to be successful um and they wanted them to treat the fans and the players and everybody well. You know, and that was the way I was brought up for 15-year-old and that was passed on to, you know, m Mickey there, Brian was there, you were there, and that is what you try and pass on, you know? So you're trying to get gain success, you can say it's it's wear that, but been brought up with exciting pass ing football which brings you results and then looks after people and break and puts bums and seats and put smiles in the in the face which we're getting at the moment. Even though now a lot of the players haven't come through the youth system, there is a lot of youth. We're going back to young players, aren't we? If you look at the broadheads and the clerks and the Hutchinsons and they're starting to give young clients opportunities into the eye. I mean the the I think the worst thing in the last ten years that's happened when they stopped the sort of foundation, the community project. And that I couldn't I couldn't believe that happened, but all that's gone now. You you can't look back. And I think you'll gradually see more youngsters coming through the youth policy, more coming through the academy. I see it with my grandkids coming training here. There's a little bit of spark about them. Epsy are now are looking at players, they're not going to Norwich. There's they were five or six years ago, they want to come to Epsy. So I think in the next few years you'll see the regeneration again of youngsters coming through policy you walk through town now Ipswich shirt. Which wasn't Sammy Milton and I spoke with that on Saturday, just sitting watching the crowd and the number of actoleptic shirts, the orange, the blue, the different colours, I mean really read around the whole stadium, which was fantastic. But I mean to be honest with you, George has touched on so many parts of it there. And Ipswich Town are a special club. And I mean having been a player and a coach here and I think having worked behind the scenes as well, you realise how important, you know, Ipswich is to the county of Suffolk. You know, th it's unique that way because there's not many clubs are the only club in the whole of the county. So without being disrespectful to the rugby and the cricket and all the rest of it, they've got teams, but the football club were always looked upon as the special spe,cial one. And I just think that over that period in time and going back again to what as Alf Ramsey did with his group of players, it laid a little bit of a foundation and gave it a bit of status with regards to what could be achieved at a small club. Then there was different years with dawn and things didn't materialize. The backroom staff with regards to the boardroom and all the rest, it didn't really change over the years. I don't think George, but the kobolds were in in in in place for Ralph Ramsey and all the rest of it, weren't they? Yeah. And then it moved on to John Kerr, and David Cheek heim. You know? Yeah. So th that's the way it was you know, local people. Yeah. Now it's not local people uh who own the club or develop it but they're trying to do it along the r the same lines. Yeah. You know? With the community at the heart of it. I mean I been back living in Ipsy's for ten years now. But it's only been the last couple of years when you're walking the dog through the park and Mickey lives local as well that you know, people want to talk about football. People want Ipsy's are doing well and you know, where in the last few years it wasn't the case. So about town, about Ipsitz there is a feel good factor where you know and it's showed by I can't believe the crowds that are coming now. You know so many where did all the supporters come from? But there's a big pool from outside it. I was actually gonna say that to you. What what you have noticed in town, because as you know, I come in by train and do all that, and is without doubt an evidence that blue shirts are coming on the train more often, there's more of them. And I think also what has been created has been built around the club. Because as we all know, everything starts at two o'clock, doesn't it? Really getting your programme, getting in the match. But now people seem to be coming earlier and there's so much on offer. You know, I look out at our training ground and the training ground that I well I'll tell you about the training ground. Me and Rich and Moore went to Barcelona because A Astro pitches weren't developed there and Barcelona's reserves played outside the stadium in an Astro pitch. And we thought, well, that was we'd won pitch for three teams with Sabobi within of any any other training facilities. One pitch and we thought, well we need a pitch where it can play you know twelve months a year and whatever. Okay. So we looked at it, looked good, so we brought it here. Then when I brought it here, we placed it there, players didn't want to play in it. Oh hap my calf, hop my groin, my knees too, so virtually we put it there and nobody playing in it. And then now they've developed it and it's been really good for youngsters and for prematch for all the spectators. But I th I think it's a combination of a lot of things because I was I was smiling with Matt. He was showing me round uh where the different studios are at the ground, the developments behind us and George we remember when that gymnasium came for us how good that was George Burnham was remember we were outside underneath the the stand wet cold snow the lot doing calf doing stretches, head tennis, you had to be in early to get it on a head tennis court. But to be honest with you, now when I look at it, you took over our training ground with the uh with all the outside activities and you took over our indoor arena with your studio. We've not got a bad training ground elsewhere. So that's and and that's potentially going to be developed as well. How Bobby Robinson managed to do it. Team that played in Europe for on one pitch ten years, one pitch for the reserves, youth team sometimes we walked across to the park and be success . Funding your business doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to take weeks. It doesn't need to involve your bank. At Fleximize, we believe there's a different way to do things. We take the hassle out of finance so you can get on with what you do best, running your business. Think of us as your trusty sidekick with the power to boost your business with fast flexible loans built for you. Visit us at fleximize.com or call our EpSwitch office on 0147-3-208-108. Fleximize . Business finance done properly. So we're in we're in the boardroom. I mean it's a this is a special place in itself. But Portman Road. Your first memories of Portman Road when you came in what age were you when you said you came I was fifteen walking up to the club seeing the ground what's you I don't know um what do you think of it the place I think I was I was fifteen the 3rd of June and I came here in the 26th of June, so I was a 15-year-old all the way from Scotland. So it was um it was a harrant experience to be away from home, but um I had another Scottish boy to keep me company which helped me and it did take me time to settle down. But football kept you saying, yeah I'm enjoying this because I enjoy playing football but it wasn't it's not an easy thing leaving home at fifteen. And it wasn't my mum and dad were well, you know, do you really want to leave s you know I thought yeah, I've always wanted to be a footballer, I've been given the chance, no matter what, I'm gonna go for it. So it it was was n't a great experience to be honest because you get homesick and you're speaking to your mum and your dad and you know and I think I get an injury after a few months and my broke up toe. So it wasn't easy but just wanting to be a footballer so much it just pressed the side of actually leaving home at 15. Had you been before? Had you been to Port Road? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean um I came from quite an early age, sort of I don't know, six, seven, to watch games with me mum and did you? Yeah. Were you an Ipswich fan then or? Um not not not massively, but where we were situated in Essex, Chelsea, you either drove to Ipswich to watch it or you've got to go to West Ham. And much harder drive into London to watch and what it was. But yeah, we became like regular goers and regular Ipswich fans. I mean I was here when I think it was Leeds, was it, when the massive crowd and they literally lifted us live. That's still the highest. That wasn't last year, us Litlands over the over the top and we sat all round the round . Thirty eight thousand thirty-eight thousand were there on that day. You were here. And I I I was one of the ones that got lifted over twenty two at the time. No, I think I think I think to be honest with you must have been a strong person. It was neat, it was tiny. Well there was a new stand just built. The the new stand had just been built and you felt that there was something happening. And there was no doubt about it that uh when you came into the club and you you met the manager, the manager was key. I mean George is right, but I mean I I smile when I tell the story because I do think that Bobby Robson did a fantastic job. And and I think I was in with uh the manager speaking about this and that and terms and would you sign, would you not sign, whatever. And I eventually said yeah, I was always gonna come, but that was it. So I said, would you mind if I you know, could use the phone? I just want to tell my parents, I don't want them hearing on the radio that I was going to do that. So I went , I walk down the corridor and there's a man sitting . And he's, I think it was a lollipop or an ice cream. I think it was a lollipop he was eating. And uh he was very jolly, very jolly, lovely man. And he said, Chad, chad, chad, you're coming, you're doing. I said, yes, yes. He said, Do you want to lick him a lollipop? And I went, no, I'm okay, thanks very much. I'm just gonna make a call and then I'll come back to see what it is. Well I was 24. So I was a mature player then. But it was one of those things when I went back in to talk to Bobby Rob son. He said, Yes, you've done this, you've done that, you've done the other thing, and the chairman's coming to meet you. I said, okay. I said I met a very nice man outside and he was I think it was a lollipop he was eating and he offered me a lick of his lollipop. And Bobby Robson just smiled. He went, That's the chairman flow. That was Mr. John. Wow. But but I'm a I'm a Mr. John fan. Yeah, yeah. I've got to say. Because I uh having been in management and if you get the support of someone like that then I do feel that they set the tone of the club and that was the thing and and there's so many stories I mean George can tell you more about it than me with regards to the boardroom and you know the we're w no cr no crisis here unless we're uh run out of white wine. You know, all these things have been said and been carried through over the years. But that was the way they ran the football club. And the people about it, George has mentioned, you know, different people. You look at Pat Godbull. I mean when when we arrived there was Wally Gray, the secretary, David Rose, his assistant, and Pat who was everything. And that was the that was the the backbone of running this football club. After that, you moved on to the playing end. And so there was something special about the football club. People wanted to be here. People made you feel special, made you feel important. And I think when we played in matches where the crowds were the crowds were phenomenal yeah. I mean you top them in Arsenal and were all coming and this was special for Epsis to play these clubs. But it wasn't just anyone thing specifically. It was the whole area, the club, the people belonging to it, the people around it, made it a special place. Remember coming to Bournemouth to sign me. Yeah, well I'd we'd played you in the cup cup here, and we the season before. So I'd been to Porton Road and played here at Porton Road and I thought, Wow, this is this is proper place, this is you know, and obviously well in them two games. I must have done I must have done. But we uh yeah, I know and uh but obviously coming here it was a step up from Bournemouth, I was in the league one at the time. This was a championship club fighting for the playoffs 'cause you'd just been in the playoffs I think Sheffield United got beat by Sheffield United in the semis the that season. But you didn't have to do too much convincing, but I was desperate to come, really. I think in my time as a manager here, you know, we have had Charlie Woodchiefco sut, um Colin Sugget. So that and I remember coming to watch you 'cause when you're playing against players you don't actually concentrate too much. You might think well you know so me and Charlie went to Bournemouth and I think you were captain. Yeah. And then there was talk about you going and people seeing me and they didn't w want me to come and sit down because of speculation in the paper because they love Mac. uh West Ham. Yeah. I mean where you maybe do you remember we I played against you in a reserve game at Colchester. Is that the one where I scored you scored at the top corner yeah at Layer Road. Yeah. I remember I don't score too often but that was eleven you got in five hundred games here. I've got it written down there. But the Coltester one was a reserve stuff. That was a reserve game. That didn't count. Yeah. No, so you're always looking about for young players that might progress or young players who maybe didn't do to a that standard. But for me the the the the you know like Bobby Fix and whatever used to say you can tell somebody's character on the field and you can and for me that you stood out, okay , you had your qualities, but that that sort of standard was me was an Ipsy player. Where where he was an honest, he did everything well, there was a lot of bits and bobs, and he didn't have all the clubs in the bag, you know, but it was something we could work at. So I think that's very important when you're bringing people to the clubs. And you you don't always get a chance to go and watch players, but when you go and watch players that that's the sort of things that stick out. If I can just step in, I mean George has many, many qualities and we have all strengths and weaknesses and all the rest of it. And I thought George's one of his great strengths as a manager was spotting the player. You think about people like David Johnson, Mart Holland, that type of thing. Yeah, and I and I and I just I just felt that that was one of his great strengths. And I think once the names had come forward, and I always felt it was his role to go and have a look at them because I just felt that he ran the eye over them, he had a good he could assess them and he didn't make many mistakes that way. I'd agree with that. Special nights at Portman Road, what would you what what would be your I don't know if if someone said to you, your greatest night at Portland Road, what would it be? Well, I think one sticks out for me was the playoffs. You know, Jim Jones hat-trick. Jim's you know, three goals, extra time. Um the fourth occasion were in in the playoffs yeah um that night I don't think you could r you know write the story could you you know as far as it went so close we could have lost it then we could have won it, went to explain time , player sent off, you know, Sam Halliday still hasn't spoken to us since I don't think . But um yeah, that was a special occasion because of all all the years, you know, we you know like Mick says, you know, John Lell did really well. Then when you come in coming in you've got to rebuild again. You know, and then my first season I think we we just missed out by one point. I think we drew it home against Millwall, didn't get into playoffs. They rolled the seats out of the sand, didn't they? Because they went down. Yeah, yeah. We needed to win to go up and they needed to win to stay up. And we drew near nothing happened. So that was a great and then the next four seasons in the playoffs, just missed out, just missed out season after season. Then the semi-final comes out here. Jim score' as hat trick , you know, it was such a great occasion, known. We'd got to the final, we've got to Wembley and had a great chance to get in the premiership. Yeah. Um so that night that night we stick it for me. Yeah, I think that as well. I I think Inter Milan as well. I think the Inter Milan night as well was a special night 'cause you you talked earlier about getting the club back into Europe. Yeah, I mean the I think when I took over what what do you want to do? And I said, Well yeah we want to get you know do well and we want to get back into Europe and people said Yeah we're not gonna getting it back into Europe but we did yeah we did and then finishing fifth of course in the premises. But I mean it's it's the beliefs and um when you're at a club like it's you know with a history we need that's where you need to be going, you need to be pushing forward. The fans expect it. You know we've set the standards, you know, and and it's been hard in the last to that I've been back ten years. The last two years all of a sudden we're playing attacking football, we're playing good passing football. The crowd have come back, there's exciting about the place. And that's what Epsy means. You know, we've had so much success and John Lowell had it, you know, and you Alframsy, Bobby Robson and I managed to get them into Europe. So it's a case of can we get back there? I think with all of those teams as well and that and that reminiscent of the team that's playing now the best teams that I played in here could all score goals. The team that won the championship from John Low, the teams under um George , we could score goals. Goals from everywhere. Everywhere. You know, your full backs are scoring goals, your midfield, your two seven and a half, so get a number of goals. You wasn't just relying on your strikers to score your goal. And I see that now, and I think that that gives you a chance in every game. What about your favourite night at Portland Road? Because you only played six hundred and something games. Yeah, yeah, it's difficult. Yeah, it's a difficult. I mean I I played a couple of times as an emergency striker and scored like a couple of goals in one and played fullback the next week. You know, but yeah, I I I played it such a long time that we had some fantastic fantastic games man, fantastic nights. Just coming so close in the playoffs. That was how I was making each year. And so pleased when we actually managed to get up. Yeah. Because you know, we should have beaten Sheffield United in that first year. We were by five a better team and then we threw it away, didn't we? In other Bolton we Bolton, we lost our way goals, didn't we? But in the ah. ye Yeah before we actually beat him. Well Mickey Stockwell's gonna be disappointed if I don't speak about different games. Real Madrid's coming up. Well to be honest with you against Real Madrid. Did you play against Real Madrid? Mick and I we we nineteen, what, twenty six seven two Mick and I go round and speak to many of the supporters in different rooms and they like pos there's a a range of years and we always talk about magical moments you always talk about make it very personal and he doesn't affect me but he has to go at me. But George is right about Europe and you know what to rem ember. But I still say those European nights were something very special. Because it was new to us all back in the 70s, you know, because we all of a sudden we were um I know Alf Ramsey's team had a little go in Europe and it was it was fantastic, but it wasn't what it was at that time. And then all of a sudden we were back in Europe. Coming in Real Madrid. Well Real Madrid let's get to it, come on. Well, no d the for me, yeah, you typify because I was a Real Madrid supporter as a boy. I mean, I can puscus into Stefano and watching them winning all the European Hinto, can we remember all the names, Santa Maria? We they were a fantastic club and they all white it was special it was special and when the draw came out and Real Madrid came out heaven fantastic I was gonna play against some of these players. And but it wasn't so much yeah, Real Madrid were special, but it was the actual night. The coming to the ground, it was always dark, the lights were on. Magical the night . It was it was special. And the supporters it was reasonably new to well 90% of the supporters they hadn't tasted this European nights. And you walked in, whether it was a European whatever rub they had in the dressing room, there was a there was a special smell about the whole thing, there' as special feeling about it all. But that one game against Real Madrid, I give him the goal to Milsey. But he says it might have been classes and own goal. But I think Mickey Mills scored it. But when that ball went into the back of the net and we beat Real Madrid here at Portman Road and the atmosphere about the place it was on real. And then when we went across obviously the the the second game in the Barnaby was the we weren't given much chance really. One nil against the Grit Real Madrid team. But this the spirit, the character of that team carried up the carried us through and we actually won the Thai 1-0. So I would think magical moments we had many, Mick has said it, many, many, you can't remember so many, uh all the games and all the the moments in time, but the atmosphere and the European nights back in the seventies were something I'll never forget. I've got to say the atmosphere at the moment round the ground. I can't remember playing in many atmosphere is as good as what's going round the ground at the moment. Fantastic. I think we're all looking forward to the derby as well, aren't we? We shouldn't really mention noise with Brian in the room because he obviously went and left us and went over the border. Sneaked over the border, didn't someone went over the border. Still over there. Well you're still over there, you're still over there, right? Once he consented Suffolk. No, I'm gonna say it. I think I I love East Anglia. I think uh East Anglia is a wonderful area. Suffolk did you say? Well no East Anglia I do I want Colchester to do well. Is that why you went to Norwich? Well, I didn't wonder about it. It was one of those where you know I was I was enjoying my time here and something else cropped up and that that actually happened. So I went and it was a great experience. I don't apologize for it. They're a nice club, they're a good club. And I just feel that basically East Anglian clubs, when you get Colchester doing well, you get Norris doing well, and you get Ipswich doing well, the place is alive. And to be honest with you, when you when you taste the atmosphere, and as Mick has said, the atmosphere around this football club now is something very special. Norwich had it a few years ago, and you just feel that it lifts the whole area. And you're right, looking forward to the derby. They were the games I enjoy playing in the most. Yeah. Yeah. I loved it. I can't remember losing too many against Norwich. I only remember one . I don't remember losing the ones losing any case, but five nil you played in the five nil? Did you play? I played in the five nil, I set up the first two of Alex was Alex's goals. It's funny thing I remember I remember Did you have an injury or don't you score? Yeah, I think so. But you competitive It was a throw-in on the far side. Yeah. And we'd worked on the No, we'd worked on it on the Friday. We'd worked on the throw-in on the Friday. And we'd it was a Mickey Lambert one. You know, show it that way and then come inside. Oh, the goal now, I remember it now. Yeah, and and and Alex came inside and to be fair it was worked on the throne was perfect, but his finish was amazing. And that got us off to a great start. And we had worked on it on the Friday morning. To be fair, I can't it's a Spanish left back, but I wanted to put him in my right little carriage back . Five mil. You can't you you you just dream about beating Norwich 5 0 don't you but um no they're they're great games. I mean not great when you lose but when you win that's uh it just means everything doesn't it's sports are fantastic fun. Great fun. Great atmospheres. I mean Flecky and people like that who played for knowledge and they were good lats but but they brought a bit of theatre to it at that time and that that period it was almost like a villain when he Joe played as well, Joe Royal, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. But Derby's Derby's, I think we've all played in different derbies. And I mean, I was lucky enough to play in the Aberdeen Liverpool Derby. And and I mean, to be honest with you, that's special. I mean, the the the difference I find because I think it can get out of hand a little bit. I love the banter, I love supporting the team, and at the end of the day you just don't want any trouble from it all. Of course. And the one thing that I would say during my time on Mercy's side, the the atmosphere was electric, it was special. Derby fixtures, and this one's exactly the same. And if they can keep it like that, it's a fantastic occasion, a football occasion. To be fair, we've got that out of the game at home at the moment. I remember against Leeds, I remember w when we conceded the second goal and everybody stood up and clocked and clapped out our players, we just lost a lost a goal and a man a many, many crowd would clap them saying, Right, we've considered a goal, give them the players lift try and lift the players straight away to go and go back again. No, see not many codes with that. There's very few negative aspects about the football club at the moment. Look, it's like anything isn't it? We've had 145 years of history and you have highs, you have lows, you have highs, it goes through peaks and troughs. At the moment we're certainly going in the right direction. I think one of the th one of the things that it has been, you know, I had a conversation recently with a Neptris supporter. And there has been few years of pain. And they really are enjoying what they're seeing at the moment. And I think it's also you know, it's the football field of course. I think the the manager excellent. The manager is excellent. I think he's he's he's brought so many qualities to the football club. I love him with what he does on the field. I actually watch him because I always watch the bench and uh the way he handles every situation with regards to the fourth official , with regards as the opposing manager or coach, the way he speaks with the players. And um I still to this day remember when Mark Ashton invited us all in, George and Mick and Terry Butcher and Russell Os man and so many of the former players to come in and have a dinner with the manager, the chairman and the CEO. And I thought when uh I hadn't met Kieran before and uh I should have known him because he was another Mar ish boy. And uh when I I spoke with him I was very very impressed. Now he was if you remember he was third on. I think the chairman spoke first and did an unbelievable presentation . Mark Ashton then came second, and he was also very powerful. So it's never easy, as we know, after dinner speaking. And he was third on. And I thought he was fantastic. I thought the way he handled it with the players sitting in front of him. I thought he he he put a fo a wonderful presentation forward and you're nice seeing it on the pitch. I know. Well I think it's fair to say we're in good hands at the moment. I'm gonna finish because we're running out of time with just one word to sum up Ipswich. And I know it's a difficult especially for you, Brian, because one word is very hard for yourself, but one word to sum up Ipswich town. I think I I think I would say family. George talked talked about it family club and and I think uh I told you one word was impossible. One word one word exactly what I was gonna say family. Yeah . I think um yeah passionate football people. Go on tell them, that's three words. No I'm gonna say I'm gonna say community. Standards. Yeah, it's a passionate is a flower. Why should you do it with one word when you can say a whole lot? And I mean really and you've seen so many and I know you're speaking to different people. But everybody has got different stories, different words, different thoughts about the place. And at the end of the day, it's just Ipswich Town Football Top. What a brilliant start to our two-part series. Thank you for your company on this one. On the next episode, Matt is joined by Russell Osman, Luke Chambers, and current town fullback Harry Clark. We'll catch you then.