Iconic moments in World Cup history

Today we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible, overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing, a soFi personal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interest debt with a soFI personal loan Visit SopFi dot com slash stuck to learn more. Loans originated by SopFi Bank NA member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply NL six nine six eight nine one. Who believes England' got to win the whale cup How was that? It's our first Wld cup twenty eight years from Scotland so huge buzz all around the country and qualified. We know FIFA and we thought it would get better when Batter wentter feelields if it actually got worse. If you're giving money to countountry X to build a stadium, well, the delegate from countountry X is going to keep voting for Fantino. I personally was really looking forward to this worldorld Cup, but then all of a sudden Everything around it has just completely turned it on its head. What's your fiest reaction he've seen the squad? It's probably going to end with group exxit all going all the way and not much in between. Look bit jubious about Touul when he came in, just for various reasons. We talked about how honest he is in Presscomas is. I love it, but it makes me wce a little bit That directness candidenness he has. Pcisely because he's German. He doesn't care. And you're talking about Jude Belling, and if he first came at the World Cup goes Jud, you're sitting in the banks next to me. That'll be a big moment I mean that ssone's a harmony of the wonder and day one because everyone talked about Scotland, the old enemy and For me, Argentina. Argentina England games are incredible. It'd be interesting to see how your team dos. My team. England. my team look for Hello and welcome back to the Fandybay brought to you by Skybet. Today's episode is a Wld Cup special as we look ahead to the tournament in the summer. Sheay's back with me once again, a big hello to our supporters and a warm welcome to a journalist author and co host of the football History podcast It was what it was Jonathan Wilson And the England pod host Alie Maxwell. So thanks for joining us guys and welcome to everyone It shape I want to start with you What do you love most The Wld Cup And Playing it was good. Supporting it growing up was good as well under the Jack Chattonair from an Irish point of view, but playing was the pinnacle for my career to play in Japan and Korea in two thousand two I think know that the Premi Leaguesacteronce say the Chions League finalals gone, I think know I think the focus quickly turns to the World Cup, Obviously Ireland not there, but You're looking at the favorites, the best teams and the best players are obviously going to be performing the World Cup in a couple of weeks and it's the biggest tourament world football, isn't? that's what it? I mean, it's a different format this year. We more teams and stuff and things that we will probably talk about in a bit, but There's nothing taken away from it. It's the greatest show on E earth isn't it? it's a brilliant tournament and be interesting to see you wonder, of course, Argentina, the holders. You know, messy got' u But his final wish in the last final can Ronaldo maybe do it this year? I'm not so sure, but It'sd be interesting to see how your team do. Well the next my team England. No, my team's Lverpool. You just mentioned Messy in the Wale Cup. My next question is what's your favorite wh Wale Cup memory? but the fact you just mentioned messy, I'm actually going choose that one as mine. R I just think it was fitting that I played of that finally won the World Cup for me. So I think it's probably the greatest final I think probably in World Cup history, I think it must be What's your favourite W cut memory Might even goes as far back as ' ninety four actually back in America where the World Cup issu when Ray Hton scording in Italy onene nelt to bit deadly. I mean the whole nation went absolutely bananas, of course I think it was might in Giant Stadium actually that that game was in. but again You know, some memories that you know, young English fans or whatever or Spanish fans or whatever it is will make this year. you know, you for you think your your first goal, your first game or whatever First memororyies of far, that was a special day for for a lot of Irish bands, of course Jonathan, you have released a new book The Power and the Glory and newew History of the World Cup. C tell us abouty Yeah., I mean, the World Cup, I think is my favorite thing in football and therefore my favorite thing in the world So I've been obsessed by the World Cup since I was five the start of the eighty two World Cup, which is my first one And I remember pouring through the ladybird history of V the eighty two W Cp and Yeah Because I was a weird and precocious five year old which will shocking U, you know, I knew every The score of every fine on you the scores. I could told you the capital city, the flag, the currency of every country in that first World Cup And ye, I've written twelve previous Football histories so I thought it's time to do the thing I actually really want to do And to try and set the World Cup in a in its sort of cultural political context. You know, the eighty two World Cup justk me because you said that was your famest World Cup, just come to me. Doid that have two group stages that will cool? Yeah, just six groups of four feed against four groups of three they got rid of that because the problem was that the fourour groups of three, the winners of each group went through. If a team won the first two games, that third game was completely pointless But That was where you got a brilliant group with Brazil, Argentina, Italy in the famous Italy three Brazil twoI game. Yeah yeah. So it produced some great football, but also some football that didn't matter at all Tell us about what's changed in the USA since the World Cup was last day in ' ninety four. And I'm saying this is not me being a little Eland at I mean, Al of American at two World Cups So Eland of w because it's a home of capitalism and they've got money and they see it as a massive market. Well I mean, it's a fair question. I mean, the biggest thing that's changed is MLS So the third attempt really is to launch a professional leeague in the US started in ' ninety six I think it's pretty established as a league. I think it's probably twwelfth, thirteh, B best league the world, depending exactly how you judge that. I think the US probably is a bit better now, but it probably hasn't kicked on quite as they'd like. And if you look at You who are the best American players? You think for ten, fifteen years ago, you know, people like Clint Temsey, Landon Donovan I'm not sure you'd expected maybe five or six to be play in Premier League now Christian Purisk probably the highest profile So I I suspect it hasn't quite developed as it liked. And I was speaking to Mrter Poertino last year And he was saying one of the problems is It's not really a culture of grasswreots football. that hasn't started. It hasn't you know, hasn't begun So if you want to play Baseically your parents have to pay for you to join a club And that A means that a lot of people who are playing tend to be middle class, There's a whole load of people just can't afford it. B If you've paid I don't know how much it cost five hundred dollars a thousand dollars a year for your kids to be playing there At the end of the year, you go to the coaches and say, well How do you make my kid better and positional awareness or first touch or technical ability, it's very hard to measure that What you can measure is sprinting speed, what weights of a lifting So the focus is very much on the physical side of the game And then you look at somebody like Chrisin Purersick, you can see that physically, he's great Is he good at doing other than running in straight lines? Maybe not. You said you've covered a lot of Wale Cups and you know everything about them And every tournament alm almost all of them The conditions will play a factor in terms of, you know, the end of the season The heat. Is this going to be on a completely different level Yeah, probably do seem I mean more or I think atar, one of the reasons that football was so good was precisely because it was in the winter and twenty, twenty five degrees, it's fine Whereas this we could be talking thirty five degrees, high humidity I think also Qatar, the football was benefited because people who played in Europe only halfway through the season and not knaced at the end of the season So youngy Barry, Thomas Tickles's assistant, he was talking about a heat proof game model He was a bit more sort of evasive about what that meant But I see him that Mains Pressing, constant for ninet Un minutes, pressing in short bursts Probably a lot of focus on set plays tryrying to calm the game down But yeah, it seems clearly having to think about that Today' attempt a feat once thought impossible, overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing, a soFI personal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interesterest debt with a soFI personal loan. Visit soFi dot com slash stuck to learn more. Loans originated by SopFI Bank andA member FDIC Terms and conditions of apply. NMLS six nine six eight nine one. Listen, we know FIFA And we thought it would get better when bl when it feels if it actually got worse The situation with group stage tickets, you said these are all going over for the tournament. I mean Where is it at right now? I mean this is something I've read in the press without probably looking into the action leads detail lobby I mean, are the stadiums half full of the England, you know, Club England or, you know, the supporters groups of Scotland as well have they got be eonder you taking all that allocation or It's a bit of a difficult one I mean with England the most disappointing thing for me, o You go you go to World Cups to watch the game, but also you go with your mates. Okaykay. So I go with quite a big group of people And they really look forward to every tournament. You know, Germany, you go out there, you get your city that you stay in, you get your train journeys, and it's part of social as well as the football itself I personally was really looking forward to this World Cup. I mean, Say talks about, you know nineteen ninety four. I actually never went to a ninety four World Cup. I went to ninet nineteen ninety because England went in ninety four. I didn't go You what I'm saying so stupid becausecauseuse my family lived out in America, my brother was out there They'll come over,' like, no, no, no, England not there. I' not going to go y, are you After it didn't happen, I was gutted and I just thought I can't wait till the World Cups back in America again. You know So now it's come around. I thought, oK, the World Cu's back in America again, o, the reasons behind it and all that. that's a different story, but I was really excited. But then all of a sudden, everything around it has just completely turned it on its head. So a lot of my mates who were all excited about. They've all plannning to do the trip one by one, they've all dropped out So what you've got is you've got big groups of people that were going to go And they're like, No, we're not going. These are people that go everywhere. They've gone to all the qualifying matches for England. They've gone everywhere. they've been to every single tournament, top cappers, people get caps, you know that get tickets easily and they're not going. or what they're doing they say, tell you what I'll buy a ticket for the final if we get there. Okay, so I could tick it off or I'll go to the first knockout game or the second knockout game or a lot of people are actually going to Fingers crossed if we do finish top Then the sixteteen' game will be in Mexico. So everyone, that's the hottest tick at the moment now. Everyone's going Is that because everything's a lot cheaper in Mexico? is that basically it That is the reason why but also because it's Mexico and a lot of people saying, we've never been to Mexico. you know too see England play in Mexico, which is a proper footballing country. I mean, I was in Mexico last year and I went and all the Mexicans I'm in out there of you know therein and all that they're going, makeake sure you come over to Mexo Bill. You know when you come out I'm like now now, I'm not going to come to Mxico we' got to go where England are and then we'll travel around. afterfter a week in Mexico, I'm coming out to Mexico. So we're actually flying out to Mexico and we're actually flying in and out of Mexico because it's cheaper, it's much more of a footballing country. But at the moment now when you ask about the tickets, a lot of the tickets of the games didn't sell out for the loocation as much or actually it's on the ed. So I think they've sold out and there's a bit of a wait list But in general, the more important thing is there's a lot of people that would go that are just not going because of everything around the World Cup. It's just as I said, it spils it for them. Yeah Dan Martin, similar thoughts with Scotland No, we wouldn't hedge our bets and being in the past the knockout stage unfortunately so I think everyone we know, you know, it's our first world Cp in eight years from Scotland. So it was a huge huge buzz around the country when we qualified Eone you know that's into wanting to travel out and be there. The allocation was tiny, I think for all the nations, I think worked at something like eight percent The Tan Armyies get a huge following and it's all subscribed. you can't join the official Ton Army so it sale one tickets at the moment Some people coming down on there. They are coming down about. Yeah. I mean giveiv us an idea. I think at the start the chat was if you were going to buy when onn the resale we may be looking at eight hundred dollars just for like a lowest category ticket But that's like when we've got mates that've just grabbed ones for maybe three hundred, four hundred dollars, which is still really, really high I said, I think we've got a very different situation We know been a world comp to in eight years so You know Well the guy at Tonab you probably, I would say sets the prices here in Fancyo ahead of FFA says the twenty twenty six Wald Cup will be the biggest, most inclusive and greatest tournament of all time. Th anari Wh's the biggest? Literally. I'm not sure about the other two. It's so tough to hear Billy talking about top Cappers, people for whom following England is like pretty much everything because it takes a lot of time, effort, money not being able to go because of this. you know, we're very fortunate that the England Pod We're going out for the group stages. We've managed to get a sponsorship to cover the trip. Otherwise there's no way we'd be going either. you know I think There's obviously so many different factors and you can travel cheaply or not so cheaply. But For those watching who are just wanting a number maybe, because that's what never quite gets said is I would say for a group of three, as we are to go out for the group stages and do it the way that we want to do it Probably between fifteen and twenty grand for a group of three. So if you want to do the whole seven weeks and you want to stay out and you can take the time off work and family co You know, we're talking double that thirty, forty gnd probably. You know what we talk we talk about this a lot? in club football about, you know, ticket prices and what are the and the clubs use the argument of Oh we need to bring this revenue in because we need to pay the playerss wages andt What is it about how can FIFA justify? and no In the last tournament, there has been a huge jump in terms of ticket prices from you know four years ago How do they justify? What is the argument for? What is the money for So if your termal to tick a price being, I think you just mented eight hundred ququaid, six hundred ququaid, let's say it was one hundred. Where does that money go for FIFA? does that go to FIFA Yeah. So I mean I certainly don't want to speak for FIFA, but I think what they would say is I don't know the extent to which this actually happens, but They do an awful lot of work globally, right? Whether it's good work or not good work. they certainly purport to invest a lot of money into the game globally and sometimes in much smaller nations wont be in the World Cup. And I guess so they see this as You know, their biggest revenue stream, right? It's their big tournament. It is their biggest way of making money. So I guess for them, they would say, well, the more money we can make from this tournament, the more we can plow into causes across the world, whether you believe that they do that That's absolutely line they would give you. So in a four year cycle So if you look at the last four year cycle, including the twenty twenty two World Cup eighty three percent of F's revenue came from that World Cup So I suspect that proportion will be even higher this time, although they've got the Cub World Cup expanded now which should bring in more money So yeah, the nice idea is this money has redistributed around the world builduilding, I don't know, Benine needs a stadium There's beening. You need to go and train up referees in Ecuador or whatever. A we all know that FIFA has become as vehicle to get Johan and Fantina reelected So a lot of these Handout some fe for the gold project, for instance. I think if you actually audited that properly, you wouldd see the money doesn't necessarily go where it's meant to go. But if you're giving money to country X to build a stadium Well, the delegate from countountry X is going to keep voting for Infantino They have all these VIFA committees, which have they've proliferated They got bigger and bigger. If you're a an FA delegate that's sitting on one of those committees You get a stipend and you get your expenses, which are very, very generous. Again, You're not going to rock the boat, you're not going to challenge in Patino. So All of this While there may well be some good stuff going on and there are very good people at FIFA It also helps inanta the thing of sorry I was just going to say is that the fans who get punished at the end the day, it's like Yeah, completely. Because the FIFA will get all the TV rights money and all the different sponsorship. Well and this is has changedince sorry, if the stadiums have empty, it's not the same product, isn' it If The the atmosphere isn't so good, it's not same. It it's you guys who bring that. But the stadiums are not going to be empty and that's part of the problem as well because it's in America mean I'm a Briver fan and I went out two years ago to the summer series out there And obviously s of Premier League started to become big within it almost like a little cliak so So it's almost like a sort kind of incredibles word trendy thing in America. So the fans are in it, they're properly in I, I've going to watch MS quite a lot out there as well. So I know quite a lot about American fan culture. But they've also got this culture where They are happy. pay whatever for tickets. So we get again as Brentford, we get a lot of Americans that come over and they come up they ring us up and say, all right, can you get some tickets? said, oK, thirty pounds. they're like thirty pounds.' that all Yeah That's what it is in this country. okay. twenty penn, thirty pounds. They're like, oh my go, that's how much we pay for, you know, we pay less than that in our fees in America. Then we went out to this cubp over there and tickets were like two, three. We had people that pay five six hundred dollars to go and see a friendly match. And they didn't they don't think too much about it So what you've got now the scenario is FIF has gone in, they've gone Okay It's in America now. America will play it. So what we'll do instead of last year at the euros two years ago, I mean they know it's not FIFA, tickets were sixty quid, eighty quid The cheapest ticket is going to be two hundred quid right? just for a group game. And then after that we'll step it up, then we'll get three hundred and fifty quid four. and then you get then the final is going to be three thousand two hundred for the cheapest ticket And it's ridiculous. So all of a sudden, what you've got is then the resale market comes in then the resale market, people, well, the cheapest tick is two hundred quid. So if somebody wants to come in He's going to actually pay at least four hundred, if not six hundred. the Americans come in and say, well, we'll pay a thousand, twelve hundred. Final tickets are on there for sort of fif five thousand, eight thousand, ten thousand pounds. It's got ridiculous. And the most disgusting thing about it is that FIFA instead of like, you know, you got normally people go to stub hub to buy tickets, but they said, we're going to control the resale of tickets ourselves. So we'll make our own stub hub and what we'll do is that if you want to sell a ticket, so if you've bought ticket for a g You buy it for two hundred quit, then you could put it on the FIFA Stub hub for a grand if you wanted to. No problem. They said that's fine. Is it dis sre stuff fe it they take stand them. they tell you they have a big problem. They take thirty percent. fifty percent on e other side. you don't think can he's got a carved dow way you can never get rid of them I mean, the only way you could get rid of them would be a much stronger UAFA under a different president than Chefferin We don't have that at the moment. And UEFA has the power, it has the wealth You could, for instance, if you wanted to challenge FIFA, you could say, right the Nations League is a preree existing tournament Let's invite Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay. Maybe Japan, South Korea, maybe the big TV markets US, Mexico. And then you really do have a threat to FIFA because you can't have a world Cup without those notations But the minute, there's no prospect of that happening. Is there any incentive for them to join that Like from a financial perspective, if you ever tri to do that What's the financial incentive like you already said, the st end and all the expenses If you've got the delegates that are in his pocket ye, they're not going No, you're quite right and that's one of the reasons why won't. It'd only be if you've got say a very enlightened leader in the Argentinian game or the Brazilian game if this new sort of Nations League plus could generate enough revenue that could sort of you challenge sorry, just the a quic thing is the plights, the hotels, the trains involved. But this I mean, we if the dynamic pricing theoretically mean, I think this is why you're right that the samees will pretty well filled Dynamic pricing means that the prices can come down So I've got mates who live in the U.S. who are saying, well, I'm not buying a ticket till the week before. and I think They're not bothered to about what game they're going to, but. G got to make it lives in Atlanta They've got as M as sound B DR Congo, so not necessarily the most attractive game There's no huge Uzbec or Congolese diaspa in America to fill the sagium. So those prices will drop to twenty fifteen, ten dollars. So if you live in Georgia, brilliant Wait the week before? then by the second, but You can't do that if you live You in Ubekistan or live in Dio Congo or live anywhere you want to go to that game You' got to get your flight, you' got to get your hotels,'ve got to start your visa And the other thing we we're saying this as people from Britain who are relatively in world terms wealthy sayay you're a Bosnian f Bosnia is their second World Cup Their first gamees against Canada I had a look at that last week. The price for that is two thousand two hundred and fifty dollars Now, the average monthly wage in Bosnia is eight hundred dollars. So you're saying to the average Bosnian If you want to go to this game, youre only your fourth ever game at the World Cup evenven before you pay The flights, the hotels, everything It's gonna cost you three months wages to go and watch a game against Canada. That's case, isn't it I just want to bring sorry, Martin and Daniel in. We brought them initially on Ticker prrice. we're going to try and get off that and try and bring a bit of positivity to this episode of the World Cups. So you your brothers, members of the band Scaryvau? Y. Have I got that right? So welcome to the show and I'm just I'm just looking at is that the Ally MacLeod seventy eight yes, is that when you were going to win the World Cup Yeah, It's how younger to remember that? Yeah. But you've brought out a W Cup song for Scotland You never stopped dreaming. Tell us about it Yeah, I think just like everyone else in Scotland when we finally did qualify after that time the euphoria took over and we thought it would be a great idea to write a song but so did every other Scottish band, so there's plenty of songs going out up there, but I think As a nation, we're trying to keep as positive as we can about it. There's a lot of stuff around it that you know, ticket prices and everythingone else, but in terms of the nation going there for the first time it's been It's been amazing for this generation. I was pretty young when we were there last time in France ninety eight, so So you're heading over to Boston, but you're stuffing up in New York on the way. So what's planned in Boston? The Titan army are there. You're going to have a ball Boston and New York? Yeah we've managed to actually a couple of shows from that out there as well. We'll probably do like the parade before the game and go to the game and stuff. So it's going to be incredible. It was a long time It's been a long time coming to qualify for a World Cups. So manyany fans are expecting Scottish fan to forget the ticket situation but just in general to go there. rough number be tenens of thousand think we're going to base ourself in Providence when before the second game we're going to stay out in the Nland there's going to have a ten thousand tap army. we'veready got Providence tart army there'. organized for that as well. So we're very lucky we're at the euros a couple of years ago as well and a I had an amazing experience. The main reason we're going over to Boston is it's a charity event for street soccer Scotland, the top that Martin's wearing and it's an amazing charity. And a family, the Yarrow Foundation, they have an event they're doing in Boston to raise money for that charity as well. So we had a great night and they did the same thing in Munich Act metet Robby Keene was there, he managed a gate crash thing. Yeah Rob sneaked in. had a good time with the Scots. he was there and we had' probably the best day at life. We ended up having lunch with Sir Alex Fergus right after before we went to The game and got Hammled but Germy St back down earth very quickly. Okay, well this time, what's a successful tournament for Scotland? I think it's performing well and you're even we got a result along the way, it's like I think they have to go. Beforehand at the Eururozone but getting to a major tournament againame was a big thing, but we've done that twice now, I think the next step with the Scotland team is to come out this group And particularly with the players that we have just now McGen and McTomany are playing right at the top I mean the game against Denmark was special, wasn't it the goals on that game? I mean, Mc Tommy's overhead Kake was stuff Ky was and just ced it off. Yeah it was unbeliev, wasn't it?. Yeah I think it's got to be not just being there and the Scot's been there for a good time. it's got to be this time we've got. What's the other thing as well is it's the format of the Wor Cup now, isn't it? We've got a great chance of getting out of the grip because of more teams you guys mentioned before. It. Scotland never go out to party? No, no. It was a big chance in? Yeah, good opportunity. And the manager who will have masterminded that if that's the case is Steve Clark, justust signed a new contract, please with that Yeah, I think he deserves it. I think a lot of us felt it was quite funny time and would have maybe waited until after the worldorld Cup to do that as well, especially the way the last two majors have went to the Eururos. so maybe the time is off, but they're obviously showing a commitment to in. Do's the if you're at to progress, get through the group, you know, have a good time in the the knockout stages, who do you think is a key player Pro probablyably make T and he's honestly he' I he's one of the best players, probably global at the moment. I think, you know, there's a few Guys at plug al lot in Shngland. We get two goals at the weekend get great finish outs. I think probably the guys. There is I think there's a huge emphasis that he puts on the squad and making it almost like a club team atmosphere, you know, there's been a lot said about him not taking McBerney, even though his contribution for Howull and other players are not going seightly, but Steve Clark's always been very much a club tpe mentality so they are a really tight net group ofious Mctom ands like I was to for Gilmore were you ye. I was going to say if you'd ask me same question, I would say Gilmore was probably the most important player, just in terms of like retaining the ball and calmness and we need that at times when we've knock got out lot of the ball, we need somebody that'll keep it. I just think anyone now playing those little friendlies before the tournament, you know just from any country anyone get saidingjy, you think, Oh you know, every four years, I was as goodut as when I saw that. Billy Gilmore. Jonathan, you're H whale Cup memory. so we're going to ask you, give us your favourite Scotland Will Cup story. I think if we go back to the first World Cup of Scotland played in ninetineeen fifty four, which I'm afraid very much sets the template So to start with Rangers say, hang on, do we actually have to give away our players? We pay their wages. So they get a ruling on this and the ruling is If you've already got a game of range, then know you don't. So Rranger's response is to arrange a tour Canada So we don't have to release any players for the World Court lound. So they then go to the World Cubp The Squores are twenty two in those days. They take thirteen, two of them goalkeepers. They take a massive selection committee Andy Basy, the manager resigns after the first game where they lose oneel to Austria, which actually is a good Austria side they get in the semifinals. Um And so the selection can there's not much selecting to be done when you've only got eleven outfield plays They then lose seven mil to Uguay. but I can just give you a quote from Tam Reid Wh's the head of the selection committee. This is before the first game against Austria Our forwards have been instructed to go all out for an early goal Knowing from experience continontentals don't like to have to fight back. Special emphasis has been laid on the necessity of hard but always fair tackling This should knock some of the funny notions out of the heads of the Austrians. so that's the level of research and insight that Scotland used to put into these Brilliant Right, let's turn our attention to the three lions Dan What's your face reaction when you seen the se the squad It It's interesting, shall we say? I mean, there's been a lot of talk hasn't it about the selection, obviously as a Palace fan, seeing Adam Walon not go I can't get right around it overceive. He's such a fantastic talent and I mean, even Morgan Gibbsite not been involved, I can't really understand personally But at the same time Thomas Fuchchel has often been spoken about as somebody who is not there to sort of play to the whims of what England fans want. He's there to win us a tournament and I suppose The prove of the pudding will very much be an eating because if you get to the knockout rounds and you start getting through these games And you perform in a way similar to what the Lands was saying about. Scotland is a clubs side. You don't necessarily need the best players in terms of their club form and the teams they play for, if they're bonded as a group and they end up getting to the final winning it, then everyone's going to look wiser after the event. As of right now, I would suggest it's ever going to end with a group exit or going all the way and not much in between Billy, when you follow on from that, when you saw the squad If you look at that squad and what you think that the team tookle to pick and think that's a team that can win or a squad that can win the Wale cup I thought to something, I thought it's a squad that's going to do okay Again, not rose tinney glasses, but I was little bit jubious about Tuul when he came in just for various reasons And I'm normally one hundred percent behind every managers fan you know, even Fabio, I was one hundred percent behind them all, you know, even even Roy Hodson, you know what I'm saying? I'm notking kn notking Roy, but what' saying? But when you look back at all these scenarios, you think, Roy Hudson, England, you know, he's taken us to Rio. No, he's not at all. He's taken us home. But when you know when Tukool came in, I was a little bit guarden and I remember going to I'm going to Barcelona for the game out there against Andora. And I was a little bit like, well, show me and show me And we ground through that game and we managed just about to get a result. And I was like, I'm not quite sure about this. And also I mean, I was very much a Southgate person, not necessarily because of what he did tactically by what he did in the background, know and stuff like that as well. So Now I have to admit as he's come through the group stages, what he's done in the group stages, I've had to just take a step back and think actually, I think the guy's got an idea of knows what he wants to do. And I think the squad that he's chosen and the reasons behind it, like you know, I see Dan Burn. I'm like I'm not quite sure why Dan Burnne you know I'm saying? I'm looking at Jed Spence. I'm like I'm not sure about Jed Spence. But then when he's given his reasons behind why he's done it I've got to step back and say, look, this guy sees them all the time and he knows what he's doing. And I think that and the most surprising one for me being a Brentford fan again, Ivan Tony, okay Brunet Striker when he was playing for us, I thought should be all over England, went to the Euros, got a little bit of a chance. I didn't think Gareth gave him enough of a chance because I kn what he could do By then he's brought him in After scoring goals this s he's not even seen him play, you know I saying he sent Justin Cocheran out to go and see him. but I think it's a brilliant move because he is a brilliant striker, a great person and just little moves like that I think will give us the edge because everyone's got to go whoo's I andony?'ve got no idea how to play against him. Well, you've got a lot of experience with Wale Cups and you were in S EtyM. Oh yeah. for a certain goal back in nineteen ninety eight. tellell us about it e me, Michael Oan You say So I'd gone to got to that game And I went with my leads man ising who he supports actually. And we went and we got another tick with somebody. So I ended up sitting in the side stand So I' sitting there in the sideid stand all the England fans beyond the goal. And I've got to say, this is still one of the most exciting games I've ever been to. It's like a tinderbox atmosphere inside that stadium. And then I just remember Micheloneone picking up the ball, running the school, you know went past the school and they put the ball in the back of the net and literally it went off. And I just went so so mad. I remember there's this Coca Cola cellar. I just ran up the stairs, hugged this Coca Cola cell. looked at me. just look at above me. It's like that. sort of running up and down. It was an unbelievable feeling. I mean, that whole game, you The behind it, you know, the Beckham kick getting sent off the goal that was disallowed, you know, the penalties up the it was just, honestly' an unbelievable gent for me, that's actually that H talk made Argentina because everyone talks about Scotland, the old enemy and this For me, Argentina. Argentina, England games are inccredible They are the atmosphere, the Argentinians They There's a little bit of, you know, a little bit of needle between, you know what I'm saying? So you get that all edge on the pitch and off the pitch Japan two thousand two when we played Argentina when we got that penalty e eighty minutes for hanging on. againgain, one of the best games I've ever been to in my life and the party afterwards in Suoro, which went on all night like literally in all the bars, all the England fans and the Japanese. It's just unbelievable. But that game and Michael Owen scored me, that goal. Yeah, unbelievable after that Unfortunately, you know, it didn't quite go to plan, but we'll see what happens in this. Ali. I want to ask you a similar question. Obviously there's a When that squad come out, who were you disappointed? Who do you think deserve the call up? Yeah, I mean, like Billy, you know, we've been following Touless England pretty closely. and he pretty much laid it all out throughout from his very first press conference until the squad announcement And more than any other England manager I can remember, he does just explain the reasons why he's done everything. and he doesn't hold back and even can be quite jarring, can't it. he's very honest about why he didn't take Palmer and Fden, I think Fony said, I don't know what position he placays for us. And' jarring, but I like his honesty. So I wouldn't say any of the squad announcement actually shocked us other than the Tony inclusion becausecause This England team and it's always worth making this point It's not been put together Now for the World Cup, it started in march twenty twenty five and so it was actually the camps in September, October, November that were the most important for building the team. It doesn't start now. it started then. So the main guys that I think were the headlines not being included, Gibbs White for his fantastic club form, but wasn't involved in any of the qualifying. Foden and Palmer for different reasons. I think people have sort of just about understood why they didn't go They've got so much competition in their positions. and if you watch England's Tcs England. And you see how Rogers played, for example, it's hard to argue that he would be someone to play in that number ten role. Lewis Hall, just because we've only got one left footed left back and that's a bit of a concern on that front I agree with Dan. For me, it's the emission of water that I find hardest to get my head around A because of the player that he is and the skill that he has that not many other players have with that snappy progressive passing and his vision. We can all see, because we've seen it dozens of times, games in which England is struggling against a set defence. and that skill must be somethingomething that you know, it's so important for that, but also just the fact that We've got Andison and Rice were all buzzing with those two. They've been brilliant and Anderson's unlocked rise to a degree, if Anderson was to get injured I don't want Rice dropping deeper again because we've seen that enough and it's not getting the best out of him. I don't really want Henderson therefore starting in that role and Mains the other center mid in the squad. That's not his best position being that first one to pick it up off the defense as well. So For me, just not having Warton when you've got twenty six players in the squad feels very strange. I was going to say about Trent, What about Trent? You you never mentioned Trent? Well talk about unlocking defenses and we're probably nearly all agreeing that Maybe from a defensive S of v you, he has these frailies, isn't he trent? Yeah. Well, if you're trying to unlock a low block, whatever it might be in tight games. I trend off the bench, his delivery and stuff. Ver, very little. But you didn't mention them there Well Oie, I'm going off what we saw from ye, you know, I think what you're seeing, he was never goal was Eactly. People knew never had him involved iner just doesn't like He doesn't like him as a player. He just clearly think it's a fallout or do you think it's a tactical thing? Do you think it's a defense serving? I think it's playing for real Madrid. That's. He's playing for real Madrid For sure. W ye But I'm The way that Twle use this fullbacks is You know, they are much more about like Spence was a surprise for me as well, wasn't it? Yeah know I think to get relegated like. I think Spence is basically whether you agree if this is true or not, but his sort of thing is being a lockdown defender, right? likeike incredibly quick, good footwork. And I basically think if we play against an Ibae or someone That's where he might use Spence. Today we'll attempt a feeat once thought impossible, overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing, a soFI personal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interest debt with a soI personal loan. Visit sofi dot com slash stuck to learn more Loans originated by SFi Bank NA member FDIC. Terms and conditions apppply NMLS six nine six eight nine one I when you look at the squad, he's he's put. energy and athleticism and harmony over talent. There's no when you talk about talent. Harmony is a good word to use, I think Yeah I think I think he see certain players Maybe trench one of them, maybe fold and palm I don't know the Harry Mcuire, the fact he's going for Dan Ben. I think most people in this room would probably say you'd say Harry McGuire is probably a better player than Dan Beno I know he loves Dan Bin in and around the squad So he can also play left back then as well Yeah, what I'm saying I'm covering. When you're listening to him and talking to him, obviously I know Anty Barry a little bit through his scouser A they put great store in this T this and we're going to be as a group for hopefully six weeks This is this is this is bigger than just having a talented play. We can't have anybody who brings the group down in any way or in negativity or they're not happy they're not playing or're throwing their arms about this is about we're going to be a team And he's not Daf tookical. He obviously ths in forward and palmmer turn Alexander out probably three of the most technical players you could probably We've got Right now, but they' N not in a squad and you think of Somet Anney Baddy mentioned I think Jonathan, you mentioned before about How they're going to go about winning the World Cup. Now, it won't be about like I amazing football or pressing, but set piece is going to play a big part as well. So maybe that's in that idea, maybe also rotation. And the thing that I thought was interesting is When he picked the four wingers I've got that right, Madawki Saker, Anney Gordon Rashford Normally when you pick on a squad, you' think OkayK, we have a quick one And then we might have one someone who gets between the lines or so you've almost got different types of players What is there I say, No our wingings is just going to be fast. We're not going to have a fold or a pan who maybe gets in the pockets. If Sacka is not playing Mu why he' just to do the same thing But it's about pace, it's about energy. it's about runners, it's not sort of players getting between the lands. And if you go back to the last tournament that was the criticism wasn't at Southgate. There was almost too many of those plays. He was trying to fit them in, wasn't he trying? It's about the fit with the team Kane. I think Tool is obsessed with Harry Kanaine and understandably so. it's all in that front line, it's all about the fit with Kane. And if he's dropping deep, which he does very naturally, occupying the center backacks, how do you make the most of that where you need people penetrating him behind. opinion onain. I mean he's an unbelievable scoring career in the last couple of years But in the last majors and the Eururos obviously, It felt like you were carrying them for a long short period. I think Yeah. hopefully he's coming into it physically in better shape. I mean confidence that he's playing with at the moment, it' just ridiculous. So I think you know, I'm broadly in agreement with how Tule' trying to build the team tactically. know, it'll be really interesting the number ten roll because I think Rogers and Kane have started to develop a nice relationship throughout the qualifiers because Bellingham was absent, he was injured So now that he's back and available, it does feel like it's either Bellingam or Roger Star. those people are on that point, do you think then you're talking about harmony in the squad? And you're talking about Jude Belling if he first game of the World Cup goes Jude, you're sitting in the bench next to me and bigart. I mean, that sounds like harmony out the window on day one and. But I think T's strong enough. I think he's shown already with us how he's dealt with Jude, he's left him out of a couple of squads. There's been things said. There's obviously There's a relationship to be worked on, I would say from both parties there But I don't see a situation unless Morgan Rogers gets injured in the warormal Games way Jude Bellingham starts the first game I think it's's going to be a huge I don' think many people have really cott and on to that still in the wider media. the media are going to turn that into a massive thing. And so Tucle's ability to handle that. We talked about how honesty he is in press conferences. I love it, but it makes me wince a little bit. after the whales friendly at Weembleley, he basically like moaned about the poor atmosphere and it felt like a shot at the fans. But anyone who goes to England games at Weembbley A, they know what to expect atmosphere wise and B, they know that all the factors that go into the poor atmosphere, it is not the individual fan's fault. It's because of how difficult it is to get there, how expensive. So he's already said a few things that make me somewhat concerned about how he's going to cope with it. Even though I am broadly optimistic, I do like him. I think s that directness that candidness he has, I think partly it's because Scy because he's German he doesn't care I doesn't have as much you know in he loves London, he clearly has a reallyally nice social life in London. Dam But he knows that in five years, ten years, he's going to be back in Germany. It's not like, you know, Grahem Taylor. everyvery time he goes into a tesco bl in a cheese canat, I say, whyy didt you take Lenko off? Yeah. Yeah he can I think that should give him more clouds. Why didn't he send Kumin off? Well, But you could also look at, you know, back in again, like two thousand six, you know, the team there, you know, that you played in And you look at the manager, you look at the setup, you look at the team, look at how it wass dealt with, lookook at the press, lookook at everything. Look how we've moved on to now. like you know what I'm saying, twenty eighteen, twenty twenty two, where we are now actually. It's completely different the mentality on that. We had some great players in that day and we all thought, you know, I mean I went all these worldor Cups, I thought, yeah we're to win World Cup but L looking back at it. I mean, I look back at some of the videos thought A me. I know we're bit unlucky there, We weren't going to win it. I think we're much more set up now as a rounded outfit, you know, off the pitch and on the pitch and the balance of these players and you haven't got that kind of those selection problems that they just weren't dealt with or players that were kind of, you know, you know then two thousand six, South Africa, twenty ten, there's all sorts ofuff going on in the changing room. They're the two World Cups Iies involved and I can't say now when I look back at my career. at the end of your career people say,, what are you proud of? And a lot of people say playing a couple of World Cups. I don't say that about myself is not shut up Yes, I played the World Cup. I could I don't think I enjoyed the experience. I didn't love it. I didn't come away thinking wow I was part of the World Cup. They never and what you're saying, there wass a lot of negativity. The team didn't do well. The media side of it have like it you didn't come away the way the lads in probably nineteen ninety. They to get to the semifinal still remembered now. G of the stone And I do have a little Naggan Fer, I think Gart Soukage will be a lot more appreciated in the next sort of five to ten years because I was a massive South gate fan in terms of what he did with England. and people saying the underachieved and he should have done this with this team. I'm a bit like I'm a little bit like this with this tournent where I think England could I think they'll find a tough if I'm being totally honest to look at the squad that's picked and you know, there's a lot of good plers in there, but a lot of them is good Premier League players. I don't look at all of them and think That's an international player there and maybe that's Maybe where we are with the squad at the moment. So I wouldn't say I'm the most optimistic sort it right now, but I want to bring the guys in what are you most looking forward to? Before you get into this wheelcp, what is the thing you're looking at I think there wasn the Hang's just been back there. the Scottish fan has been back amongst the Theorld Cup obviously hoped the Irish were going to be there as well. and it' been And you drink and even make af you know a weird one But as we're saying other on, I think that there is now an expectation to get out the group and do well at it. We don't want to just be there for for the fun and the party which will be there for sure. but I think that this group we've been together, the Scotland team have been together now. for a good couple of years being a couple of major tournaments had the experience. so the expectation is there. The chances are the first game against Haiti, which is probably one I'm most worried about. We're notoriously bad against Any team were expected to win against inroan B. But that's like a cup final hity, isn't it? the first win that then you've got an unbelievable chance of getting through, haven't you? Yeah And Brazil's the last game is that Brazil's last. And when you come to all this tpical Scotland, come to Brazil game? We'll probably leave it to have to beat Brazil to get through that all is going Right A little vote Who believes England are going to win the whale Cup. the end. How I was that. Yeah, well done We got another one at the back. anotherother one at the back. listen, it's about a little bit of luck. and that's the thing. you know that as well. L little bit of luck. There's penalties that don't go in, a little bit of luck Yeah. And once you get out of the group stages and that's the most important thing. too cool I remember going to Brazil, again, I remember going out there so happy four days later was going going home because Roy Hodgin wasn't sending us toereo. You know what I'm saying? And I just said to myself, T offin. When I used to moan about England not being all sparkly in the group stage anymore, I literally do not care I literally you can go out there put li behind the ball. Let's just get us out at them group stages because once you got the group stages boom, you know, you know, if you've beening around that. Is there any worry from an England point of view but when in Germany comeing like Germany, England saying in a semi or a final with the manager and stuff? I just find it remarkable that the manager Now like no, not at all. he wouldn't beach over I' say you want to prove a point.,'s like, you didn't to be the German manager. So I'm going be here I'm going to be you. I learned a lot about Tul from one of the podcasts that Jonathan did and Nlesman and Tuko were like Prote a mentor is that right? So? Yes, sort of, yeah. So yeah, that mean that's another time big narrative. I think Tuber would back himself and that would have. Yeah ye. Will Scotland make the knockouts Oh yeah Yes, yeah, we love that one. rightight Just before we finish, we've got a fan debed community question to everybody. sent him from Pat from Hordersfield If Christianianno Ronaldo wins the Wald Cup He will forever settle the Ronaldo Vers's messy debate and go down as the greatest player in history Do you agree? No, no, No, I don't agree. Do you think if he won the World Cup Would that put him? I don't think it makes him that the greatest player in history, but you think that would put him above messy No, no. No, not for me either. I've been the fameing of the question. this Pat Honestly not think do you think I'll joke out on the Ronala thing because I've seen clip of him in recent weeks playing obviously and Sy looks Like we it caught up with them, pererhaps They're more likely to win if it doesn't Portuguese play him winning then you're trying to build a team around this one player that maybe's not at the level of most They should be a great side. You look at you look at the players have got You you look at them four years ago, they finally leave Ronalda for they came in Switzerland and Gonchalo Vamos scores a hatrick. And y still this s. Do you think Ronaldo this summer will be an impact sub or do you actually think Martin iss going to start? It'll start and there won' be much impact there.. No Riberto Maro speaks so well highly of them doesn't the I think it' such any choice, I don't think? No, I agree I just want to go through everyone then And tell of you think he'll win the World Cup Part and Siler France z Frs.