Modeling Industry Exploitation and Outro

I have to stay in shape . The old ladies won't walk. Oh my god, we're live. Just like it's singing the best thing in the world . I think I was saying the older ladies won't wipe out in good shape. Just so I can ask is that is that a new old hat? Like did you get it in Italy but it's made to look like Chevy Chic? That's exactly what it is supposed to kind of look older and cooler and whatever. My dad gets so mad he's like, why would you buy jeans that are already ripped up. Why would you buy clothes that are already worn out? That is such that generation. It's so funny. Hi guys. You know, we'd just like to invite you into the conversation. Yeah. That's Ellie Leonard. I know you know who she is 'cause she 's not I don't say single handedly because Kate Justice, who's normally here with us, but sadly has a competing event and could not make it in essence . I think she is that is that what she said? Yeah, because she was she thought it was tomorrow and she did everything that I always do where she puts it in the wrong block. I do that all the time too. But I respect Evanes. I'm a little jealous. I am too. I respect going to evanescence and having to miss this if that were the case with me. I'm pretty sure that's what it is, but I couldn't be wrong. Well, so key is Ellie, as you all probably know, hey Jim, good to see you buddy. Jim Williams here, who's our mod and awesome. We are here to know hey, Jim . Wait, I just heard myself again. No, I know I'm trying to watch us and watch us so I can see the comments. Right. That's true. I got to open the one in substack, so I'll probably do that too . Because hi to the substack folks who are here, I appreciate it. I'm in the other chat right now. There shouldn't have to be two different chats. There I go. But there are . Hey guys , welcome . Thank you for being everybody . So this is the Epstein update. Only took like a couple minutes to get there. You guys know Ellie writes a lot of brilliant pieces on this . I write about this too from an angle of having grown up in this world of people that many of whom have sickened and greatly disappointed me and been a part of let's just say taking like being born on being winning the lottery, let's say and how they were born. And instead of using that to help others have done the exact opposite direction and used it to become predators of various sorts in the financial and worse even aren't go ahead . I was just gonna say I grew up in lower middle class public school and it probably happened there too. So there you go . But the thing is, Ellie is like, I think that people's belief is system is and again, I'm going to put it the way I think people believe not so don't please don't take this wrong, but people are like, oh, it probably happens in places like that. You know what I mean? Like oh because everybody always thinks elite institutions are somehow better . And right now I'm here to say they're not. I'm here to say the elite institutions are I should do that when I say elite , including my high school that I have nothing to do with, which I'm going to keep saying again and again, this, I mean, we'll get into that because I released a report in something I just wrote that showed the breadth and depth of this thing, how long it went on, how many victims, it's horrifying. It's sickening and it's angry, especially when you know that a few kids end up committing suicide, much like in the case of Epstein that you've covered. Yeah, I was gonna say like, I really like the angle that you took about like focusing on enablers because I feel like it was kind of like oh yeah, I think that's what I do. I think that's been my push for me because I mean, Epstein's dead. I can't go after Epstein. And so it's like all the people who got Epstein where he is, they're still walking around and I feel like one at a time those people are my mission . You know, I don't like to I don't like to play the revenge game. I don't like to hold grudges, but like when you're aware of the things you did, they're in your head, you know what happened and you're walking around and buying yachts or whatever. Like I just those are the people that I will go after in my writing. Well, and you should. Again, I don't even think it's sort of I mean, again , I don't know , you know, every inner motivation you have, you don't know every inner motivation I have. I don't know why I can't speak English right now. These are all things we wonder. But in all seriousness, yeah, look, some of it, I assume there'll be there'll be revenge in there for some people, certainly , and that will be part of it because this stuff is the kind of stuff that inspires the kind of anger, betrayal , you know, that will lead to that. But yeah, I don't think it has it doesn't have to be revenge. If you're trying if you're out there and you're trying to say, look , we have this thing called the rule of law. We have this thing in the in our laws called accompl . And if you enable people to behave in this manner, if you protect them, if you hide stuff they did, if you write great articles on them when you know things to be different, like the way you've gone after Michael Wolfe and in the end pretend that you're some truth teller when really you're just you're part of the rat pack hanging out with them . You know , that needs to be out there because people need to know that they can't trust a damn thing that guy says and you're doing a public service. So maybe I don't know all of your motivations, but I do know that whatever they are , the outcomes are good because I think you've educated a lot of people on who that guy is. And you know, if you consider my writing about this topic a good thing, which I'll leave up in the eye of the beholder , when you did that and searching on Michael Wolfe and I kind of just read more, I'd always heard of him and this whole profile, it read like somebody out of my high school. And that's kind of what motivated me because so many of them sort of put on this veneer of if that's, you know, they give to philanthropy, they do this, they do that and they should act like they're good people . And then you tear the veil off what Epstein did. Epstein gave a lot of money to, you know, it's like the idea of that two things can be true at the same time. He gave a lot of money to different things that probably needed philanthropic benefits and I think he did it for personal reasons because you know, when you open up his Wikipedia he wanted it to say that he was a philanthropist in academia and science and all these things. That's probably why he donated most of his money, but you know, he also was sexually abusing underage girls. He you take someone like Nadia Marchinkova sexually abusing her. She was fourteen years old, but he also paid for her flight school so she could open up her own small business, right? Two things at the same time . And I think that's what you see with a lot of these folks. I'm sure they've all donated lots of money, but have they donated to things that I would donate to? Maybe not. We can get into like dialogue and stuff like that, but like, you know, they're they're sort of donating back into their own . And that's great , but I'd say two things. One , donating doesn't make up for abusing children, which I know you're not saying, but I think it's worth stating clearly and we, you know, whatever. Two , you just said it yourself . Are you a multi gazillionaire ? No, no, not that I know of I mean, we all hope it just hiding . Am I a multi gazillionaire? No . I think you both give a pretty decent amount. What'd you say? My chair in your chair . I'm gonna say no , but I think we both give probably more than our fair share to charity and that stuff. And there can still be philanthropy without people having just ridiculous untold amounts of wealth. And that's why I'm going to say something I don't know if it's controversial but I don't really care about that because I think this is important, which is, you know, people always say every billionaire is a polic y failure . I think huge philanthropists are a policy failure because no because in the end they shouldn't have that money that money should have been taxed so that our I'm not saying regular philanthropists. I'm not saying what you or I do or even people. I mean, I'm not I'm not a socialist. I told that before. I have no problem with people doing well. I have no problem with people having millions of dollars and giving from that. But we're not talking millions now. We're talking hundreds of millions billions of trillion trillion worth now. Even a guy who's worth a trillion, even though net lost money in his companies last year. And that's a whole other thing and a joke. But my point is that we shouldn't need to be getting philanthropy from billionaires and from people with five hundred million dollars because we should have a top tax rate of nothing lower in my opinion than seventy five or eighty percent for those folks so that and I would argue even higher at certain levels , that so that money is being put to those things and we don't need them to do it . That's right. I think I have no problem saying that I probably am a socialist just because you shouldn't I mean you look at you you look at like the basics of like family leave when you have a baby and like we're the only country that just doesn't do that for people. I mean there's countries that get a year off, two years off to raise a child where they're paid their full friends in Italy and she was paid some of a big lawyer and actually you're right, the percent goes down I think it was a couple years at full, but she was able to stay with her kids till they were twelve and still get twenty to thirty percent of her salary . So it's not even it's so different than us . And you're right. I mean, you look at, I mean, if you want to look at like France, you know, France is a country that emphasizes the family. They emphasize going home and having lunch with your family, from school and from work . You know, they their healthcare is the best in the world and the cheapest in the world. I lived in East you know for a bit and you know in, America we have, people I rem,ember when we were broke as a joke, when our kids were little and we had one kiddo that had to go on an ambulance and I remember knowing that in my county in King County in Seattle that an ambulance ride at that time was fifteen hundred dollars . And there was a moment where I thought, do we get in this ambulance? We can't afford fifteen hundred dollars . We got in the ambulance, but it's like we'll figure that out later. And there's a lot of people who don't don't, they call online and eleven. No, people are making those calculations all the time. They're dying at home because they can't afford the ride to the hospital. And the worst part of it is it is a human failure . And that by far, to me, is the most important But it also cost more money because when people show up when they're really sick as opposed to getting preventive care, guess what? Okay, everybody's got to stop less. I'm not that popular popular please . Okay . Okay. My mom texting me . So we'll come back. My mom's good people. She raised you. She's a message . No, the only thing I'm trying to say here and I just want to go back and be very clear. I wasn't in any way criticizing socialism. I fully understand it as somebody who has been a kind of serial entrepreneur and that kind of thing , I'm a capitalist because I think I should have every right to open my own business and everything. I just think we should break the shit pardon whatever my whatever out of monopolies . And there should be no there should be no industry where there should be fewer than about ten, twelve competitors so that we can because competition is in the end what matters . And the things where the profit motive does not clearly, and in this country we can see what those are must, to me, absolutely should be run by the government, our transportation system , we can't get trains high speed rail across this country. Our airlines are a mass. I'd nationalize the whole damn thing. I certainly would nationalize certain social media platforms that have been used for nothing but disinform ation or whatever. I'd nationalize Axe. That's right, you truly are fuck . I would nationalize Facebook. I would so you know I view them as at some point as public utilities almost. So there are a lot of things I would nationalize. And so I'm certainly not a I'm an Uber capitalist blah blah blah, but I think I fit comfortably into the Western European model of social democracy where we tax people who are very wealthy, we tax corporations again . We break up monopolies, but I believe in and we nationalize things like there should be at the very least whether we want to have a single payer system like a France or like a multi payer, which I think what Germany has. But Germany provides a robust public option. So they allow private insurance companies to participate in giving people a church. They must compete with the public option that isn't paying an executive one hundred million that isn't wasting money on Hawaii for fun, that isn't right. And suddenly it gets more efficient, right? So that's where I am on these . I mean, we were having this conversation because right as the whole Luigi Miangiani thing was happening , you know, we had a kid in the pediatric epilepsy unit at the hospital and they were denying her verage because they thought it was unnecessary, right? And so it was like when that's all coming up, everybody wants to be like, you know, bad guy, don't shoot people. Obviously, those are the black and white arguments, but it was like, this is a conversation. You know, this is this is a national conversation that people are trying to survive and pay their medical bills for their parents and their kids. Like we, you know, we talk to our kids about this kind of stuff on their level obviously, but like yesterday going to the barber, right? We go to the barber. Barbers are an institution where we live there three on every block . And they're like, why do we pay the barber in cash? Why don't we pay him with a card credit ? And I said, well, 'cause I'm leaving it up to him if he's declaring, you know, this this barber visit that for you. You know what I mean? Because I said I tried to pay all the all these places ask for tips now and I always pay in cash because I'm like paying cash I don't know don't I don't care. Right. Maybe it's a Robinhood style, you know, maybe it's illegal, but it's like right now we',re paying more taxes than somebody like Donald Trump is paying taxes. And so I want people to keep every cent that they have when they don't when they're making like a barely livable wage. I want them to keep it. And so I'm going to let them make that decision. So we will pay our barber in cash and walk away and let him decide. I think that's just an ethical thing that we do as a family. Great point by Kirsten Finnegan here, so I shared it up here . That's exactly right. I mean, I've been over the last you, know, I lived in France, I lived in England, I've been to Italy, you know, twice over the last year or just a lot because family connections there and some family there. And it's just you don't think of that stuff. You think of, hey, I don't feel well, you need to go to the hospital or I need to go see a doctor. It doesn't cross your mind. You don't think you start doing the math on the cost . You don't know. And I think I've talked about it before in other shows. I don't remember if you on' therere or not , but when I got really pissed about the three hundred billion that we're giving to Iran, I made, you know, I just think sometimes Democratic Party where they fail so don't put these things in perspective for people . And if you put it in perspective, twenty to twenty three million gets you universal or billion gets universal childcare, another about fifty or so to sixty gets you universally I think it's family medical leave and another one hundred million or so gets universal free public college, not even just , you know, not I don't mean just an insulting way, but not even just two year schools or whatever, actual any public school like University of Michigan Bachelor's. Yeah. Yeah . And that's three hundred billion one year. You would get all that for hand over because had bombed and lost the strait of Hermes. Right. If we and if we hadn't done the big beautiful gold, like they all of that. Like, yes, I yeah . And I rip on, you know, sometimes that I get angry at Democrats when I don't think they go far enough on certain things. I have to give them credit too. That is my belief system, which is I get mad at those that seem to just want to make money here off of being on the far left and attacking Democrats. I get mad at those who just seem to make money over Democrat. Everything Democrats always do is great. I think you can find a place where you point out the great ones, the ones that are fighting , whatever, and when they do it well, and the fact that they're putting childcare front and center right now is one of their messages, I'm actually really happy about. I just hope they do it well and point out it is not expensive. Put that twenty to twenty three billion in context next to the money we spend on defense on all sorts of things . We've got to stop electing people who have a trust fund and all their kids are in private school, right? If you want to be taken care of as a country, if you want somebody to stand up for their constituents, right? Go to Delaney Hall, get pepper sprayed in the face. If you want your lawmakers to stand up for you , you have to elect lawmakers that look like you, that grew up like you, that use services that you're fighting for. Like vote for the person whose family was on Medicaid or welfare or food stamps. Like vote for the person who did go to public school. Don't vote for the person who's never used any services that they're making decisions on. Like they don't care if they've never used them. They if they've never lived in a family that's lived paycheck to paycheck, like they don't know how like it's like Donald Trump trying to talk about going grocery shopping. I don't know if you've seen him try to do that before. It's he's like, and this old lady, she found out the price of apples were too high, so she had to take the apples and go put them back in the refrigerator. And he's like, You've never been to a grocery store, have you? There's no apples in a refrigerator in a grocery store, like in a refrigerator refrigerator in the back of the grocery store or giving your driver's license when you go get your gas pumped and it's like you don't do that. You've never gotten a gas like a tank of gas by yourself before. It's like I don't want you to sort of run the limbos in New York and running . I don't want those people making decisions for me. I want somebody who went to public school. I want somebody who, you know, drove a used car. Like I want I want people in office who look like my parents, right? Who lived on one maybe two incomes, you know, paycheck to paycheck, use the services , had an unemployment check at some point. Like those are the people who will actually use the money towards things that affect all of us. The people that get it, right ? Like I was talking earlier before we went on air, some stuff about Sherid Brown here, who is right now up by eight points, and I'm pretty excited about that and looking very good . He and I don't know why he doesn't make a bigger deal of this, but he rejects his congressional healthcare because his whole thing is, I will not take free healthcare until everybody has free health care . That tells you whether somebody's real or not , you know, and and I would say your point is almost inevitably correct. I think there are exceptions . You know, like obviously the Roosevelt family, both Teddy and FDR came from Wealth , and yet they were sickened by, they had a sense of honor and were sickened by what they saw folks their own people doing. But if you look at most of the others , not Kennedy, not JFK, he also was more like, I would say, like them , but Truman he didn't even have a college degree, which, you know, again, I'm not insulting that, but that was considered back then for the presidency. He was a guy who fought his way up LBJ. I know Vietnam was awful. We're not going to get but on the domestic side , he may have actually been more successful in helping poor and working and middle class folks than FDR with the amount of legislation he passed, certainly racially and certain and certain other wise. Bill Clinton was born poor . You know , Joe Biden was famously the poorest senator in there. Obama was , you know, at most middle class and probably . So in general , I'm absolutely with you. Like you're going to much more often get the people and I'm just picking presidents. We can go down other to other offices too, but much more often when you elect people that have had to worry about these things, they get it . You know? I agree, I agree. And I just like we've lost it. I was talking to Daniel Moody yesterday about like , where are we now? We're in this like phase of Stockholm syndrome as the American public where we go , that guy in office totally gets me and understands my needs and and yet, you know, he's got golden statues everywhere he's spending fourteen million dollars painting the reflecting pool that didn't need to be painted and then arresting people when it falls apart . Like it's like looking at you know I think of it as like looking at the Met Gala where everybody gets on TV and they're just like, wow, that could be me. I could pay one hundred thousand dollars for a ticket or a three million dollar ball gam. Like, no, that couldn't be you. Those people didn't give that money to something to help you. They gave that money to something that's already very wealthy and had their moments . They think they're going to be billionaires or whatever. And so we can't raise money taxes on them like they just get me the most. Again, and again, like I've said this a thousand times and I apologize for anybody who's heard this before, but like I repeat myself again and again out there. But like the top ten richest, wealthiest people in America, almond and it's gone up since I did the math . But if you took the youngest one, which was Mark Zuckerberg at the time and you let him live to a hundred years old and you just gave him a billion dollars to live the rest of his life on and took the rest of his money and poured it back into the American economy. He'd still get forty four thousand dollars a day for the rest of his life. You take the oldest person and they were making forty five million dollars a day or something or seventy million for the rest of their life You know, that's if we gave them one billion. Like if they don't Elon one billion dollars for the rest of life so they have to , you know, go without lunch. You know, free health care , all our medical debt gone, school lunch is paid for , all our housing debt, school debt, homelessness gone, right? These are basic things. We're not asking for everybody should be able to live in a palace. We're just asking for the basics. I want to jump here for a second in the chat over at Substack, is it Lisa Nistrum Nistrom, they need to arrest JJ Cafaro, he's the head of Greenwater, whatever. For people don't know that connection, that family owned a bunch of malls up in Youngstown , Ohio, very mob connected. Look at this picture. Yeah, they tried to buy is his daughter or his nieces Capri Faro her way into the U. S. house and she lost and end up becoming a state senator in, you know, and this is part of the problem as a Democrat and that family always, the mob connections were well known and youngstown is Youngstown. But yes , JJ Cafaro and his Greenwater, whatever the hell, no big contract. Again, he's an enabler. He's an accomplice in all of this . Is the guy who looks like the penguin? Is that that guy? Yeah, he does. All of the news. He's very odd, very cartoonish. So I mean, he has a future in film if he ends up you know having to leave the political realm , you know, it's it's just the whole thing is insane and the worst part is it's so easy to fix. We just have these people blocking it like we could be we can be that country. We can be , you know, the yeah somebody in Ask Dash and back to the Streamyard chat here O NA or zero z,ero wh,atever the, Walton family. I mean, it's absurd. There's one Walton who's really liberal and gives a lot of it away . But for the most part, it's absurd how many Waltons are billionaires. Fucking absurd . Like and Walmart , go ahead . You can go into like the psychology of like are sociopaths more likely to be billionaires or billionaires make you become sociopaths? And then like men versus women billionaires, why do their brains function differently. Like women billionaires tend to give most of their money away versus male billionaires tend to keep it. Like there's so much psychology behind the mental breakdown of having that amount of money and hoarding it and not using it for anything at all. There's not I mean Elon can have thousands of children. He's not going to use that money. There's no way for him to use that money. Like why would you sit on it other than to be at the top of the list on the next forbs, whatever? So it's just , you know , I feel like this point in history is going to be some kind of curriculum down the line, whether that's psychology departments, whether it's just history and talking about how we were fooled by the whole crypto scheme, like all that feels like we're in the middle of a kind of Truman show that when we step back and we get some perspective in fifty years we're going to be like, I cannot believe that happened and that people were just like fine with it , you know? No, just you know,, totally cool. Yeah. Yeah, you represent me. Go by. I mean, I remember when I lived in Montana, there were people that worked with my husband at the railroad. All of us are very, very middle class, you know, people who live in rental, you know, farmh ouses . And I remember when people started talking about crypto, they would get on Facebook and they'd be like, Man, you gotta buy this. This one's going to go straight up. Everybody invest, everybody put like your four hundred one K da da da da. All of it like died by eighty percent, right? And thankfully, I was kind of like, that's not real money. So we didn't do it. But like a lot of people lost a lot of money because they thought that that was completely the future. Trump was telling them to do it . Like everybody in the tech bros were like, this is the future. Well, it was the future, but not for us. It was the future for the people creating the crypto. And that was all millionaires. You bring it up an interesting day when our stock market is crashing because it's South Korea they pulled out and it looks like some of this shockingly is based on doubts over AI bubble . And ace SpX stock dips below one hundred and fifty before rebound. I mean, like, SpaceX doesn't make money and it's something NASA should be doing. That would be like, see, there's a classic example of my social democratic beliefs coming out. It's not because I hate Elon and fuck do I hate Elon. So I'm not going to deny that. He and his stiff armed Roman salute , but it's not that. It's that nobody why are private individuals getting no bid contracts to do what fucking NASA should be doing? I mean, again it doesn't cost fourteen million dollars to paint a copy of the blood . Right. I mean, again, like painting that is that didn't need to be painted . There's a column coming out today because which I pitched to him, which was Iran. I don't want to go into it all, but Iran and the reflecting pool , they both have all of the elements of what Trump does every time , which I don't want to give all of it away, but it starts off like that he does it. He says his great idea. We should all do it off with it and then he blames us for it. Yeah, I mean he starts off with finding a problem where there isn't one and breaking something that is already working fine , but he breaks it and it goes from like it's every time the pattern is exactly the same , you know And so but I mean, we could find so many things like that where they've wasted this kind of money that could pay for the things that we need. What is dudes on the screen ? What's going on? Oh, you guys create the internet, Obama gave away soul control . I apologize, folks. That was not supposed to be on the screen. Why is that on the screen? Jackson . Go home, Jackson. Who are you, real, Jackson? And how he's stuck. He's stuck there . Somebody who knows something 'cause this is on like this is on the on this is on what do you call it on substack? I don't even know how to put crap. Oh, it's gone . I don't even know how to put that stuff on the screen. I know how to do it on Streamyard . W onas stre itamyard too ? Yeah . I was on the other chat. So you know what? I think if we put it up on Streamyard, it goes up on substack. So I must have clicked on it by mistake. I apologize. That guy was a Trump mask who said that Obama, what do he say he has no soul or something? He has soul control of the U. S. So it's a double entendre Where is that dick head? I'm looking for him. US created the unit Obama gave away soul control . Yeah, remember when you guys used to like make fun of Algore for creating the internet because Algora is smarter than all of you are and Algor actually saw the science being done at DARPA. I know I'm using big words for you , real, Jackson, and saw that it was the Defense Department that created it and said, this can have commercial applications . Right. Those were smart forward thinking Democrats, not when you say the US, it wasn't you. You guys would have cut the funding as you're doing to everything else right now and probably let Elon Musk try to do it on his own and he would have fucked it up. So yeah, don't try to take credit . You just are bad at it . Yeah , but I know. We got to talk about Ebstein stuff, I think . Yeah, like the dialogue. There's just a lot this week. The book, the Maggie Habrom, Jonathan Swann book. They were on they were the show. I know. They were on the daily show last night. I try okay, as with everything , you try to be objective . But not but not, you know , excuse but not too objective. Excusable behavi or. So my background with it is I for a little bit when I was doing transcription for a little bit, I worked on a film called The Fourth Estate. And the Fourth Estate was a documentary inside the New York Times during the first Trump election and like kind of the chaos behind watching them go from he's never going to get elected to, oh my god, he just got elected like and what that looked like for the people working at the New York Times and like them never sleeping , you know, never eating, they lived at the office kind of at the time. Never forgive them for that. I'll say quickly because that was the coverage of Hillary was so ridiculously over the top because they figured she was going to win. And clearly, thanks for that. Yeah , right. And so but in so doing that, in doing that , I got a lot of, you know, and I was only on it for a little bit because it became so so like so locked down by NDAs and so high profile that eventually they could only do it like in office transcription and I was obviously not in their office . But in that I got to hear a lot of interviews on and off the record with Meggie Haverman and see like she just reminded me at the time of like I mean this I don't want to like denigrate her but like these , I don't know I'm gonna say like she just was so worn out. She was so worn out that it was like she wasn't showering. It was like she the poor woman was not going home with her children. Like she just didn't have a life during this period of time because as we know , prior to all of this, her beat has always been Donald Trump. And I don't think that's by choice. I think that was lumped on her, but she but she didn't expect that to turn into like a presidential run. It was just he was an idiot in New York City who was like screwing people and that was what she wrote about. And so in this process, she was just wiped flat out . And so I felt bad for her in that time . What's happening now is that kind of idea of somebody tempting you with monies and book deals and that kind of thing. And can you hold the ethics of journalism versus oldest story in the book That thing, I really want that thing . And so Shane Jonathan Swan, who, you know, arguably he gave one of the best interviews with Axios with Donald Trump in the I think the last administration that interview was good, but I've read enough of his overall writing that I'm not gonna insult him on that. I just find it bland and I don't find he gives us any context as to what's going on . Right. So they and I don't know when they knew this, but they were the ones who reported on the panicked, you know , meeting at the White House discussing the Evstein files inside the situation room, which is usually set aside for like wars and assassination of terrorists . They were in there discussing protecting the president from a close connection to a pedophile. Yes. So they're in there . ent Theire senior cabinet, not Trump are in there trying to figure out what to do to protect him because damn it, he's in those files more than anybody else . And then that meeting was leaked and it was leaked obviously to Meggie Hammond because she has people who work right at the top. Usually it was usually it's her and Mike Schmidt but I think they've kind of started to do their own separate thing. So she's working with Jonathan Swann, somebody leaks to her and within gosh, what are we now ten months that happening over the eleven months , they not only knew it, wrote an entire book , they have now gotten published in eleven months from the leak , which doesn't happen. If you know how publishing works, like writer alone should take that entire time, but like which would mean that they would have had to know right away when that happened what happened, which was prior to Glene Maxwell being moved up to a minimum security prison camp , potentially vying for a pardon , they knew that right away . And now we're hearing about that eleven months later as they launch their book, which will inevitably be a bestseller . And worse and they got a huge advance. Right. Like that thing that we talk about with Michael Wolfe is like you don't sit on information that is vital to a case that protects survivors that potentially keeps Glene Maxwell in at least a low security prison, which is where she was before in Florida . If they knew that information as reporters , journalists, which they are , it is their duty to the American public to report on it and not sit on it. We don't sit on it. That's why they're in the first union with their supposed . Right. And so it's just like the age old story of reporters being, you know, tempted with the carrot, dangling the carrot of you could have a bestselling New York Times, which, you know, it's all nepotism. They work for the New York Times, New York Times publishes Hayman's dad, actually, I like his writing. I was a fan of Clyde Haermppan , you know, like she's really, I mean, had a had a leg forward in the business because of that. So Nepo baby, right ? Right. It is like speaking of somebody who's written two books that are just living and getting dusty on my hard drive . Like the idea of being nobody from nowhere and trying to be a debut novelist I think should all for Ellie it's impossible various amounts of money for these books that I'm sure are brilliant. It's devastating and impossible. You have to know somebody . I always use the example of and I forget his name, but the children's book that has no pictures in it. It's like it's just a perfect example of what you can accomplish if somebody already knows who you are and you're famous like you know, not to say anything terrible about that book. It's a cute book but whatever . So you have these people who can write a book and just say I'm going to write it and it's already they've already got the book deal, they've already got the publisher, they've already got their, you know, the people they work for make the best seller list. Oh, I mean, when you're when you're connected like that, the Washington Post, I mean, you know, a New York Times sorry. I mean I got, lucky . I got that one out back in the Danes of McCain . And you know, I had to so I published that two thousand eight, the only book I have ever written . And it was a small publishing house and I was introduced to them by somebody and they want somebody to write a McCain book and they read a couple of columns I wrote on him and they're like, Would you do it? And but again, the experience is still incred ibly different. I had basically no PR team. I actually it helped me in the future because it helped create a business for me. I learned how to do what was then digital , the new field of digital or online PR because I didn't have anybody helping me and I learned that, you know, hey, it's not about newspapers anymore. It's about getting in the Huffington post and liberal blogs, places that want to buy the book will read on MSNBC, not like some big network where most people won't pay any attention. And you know, like it became a political bestseller, but the thing is the difference between a political bestseller and like, you know, a best seller best seller, you know, like that in like twilight or something . Derek . You know, or even like, you know , the da Vinci code or whatever it is. Like I had an I got a nice advance, it was great . It took care of me for a little bit. It wasn't huge, trust me. You can't really honestly make a living as a book. I've never seen a scent. That book sold twenty four thousand or something copies, and I've never seen a scent on the back end . And I never will. Yeah. And so that's the difference like but you can walk into Barnes and Noble and you can find it. No, and that's cool. I'm saying it sucks. That's really where I am. That's all I want. Yeah, I'm just making the point of even if you get a book published, there's a big difference between having all that institutional support they'll get all the cross promotion from every other form of large media and all of that behind them and their own place will push it. And so they'll make you know they probably got huge advances, they'll make lots of money off of it. And because their ghouls and willing , excuse me to cover stuff up, like I found a couple pretty awesome stories from my book , you know, but like I found them because reporters had them and weren't willing to report them because the Arizona Republic threatened them if they did because the Arizona Republic liked John McCain. And I only found them out a few months before the book came out. So it's like it was like I found out books that were n't it still came out before the election. It wasn't going to save anybody's lives or anything. It was going to give people views of McCain, and it came out in time to do that. So I don't know. I just think like when you know at this point in history , if you are releasing a book about the Trump administration from a place like the New York Times you have to wonder what the motivation is because obviously the New York Times is, I mean we have in the past considered them a liberal newspaper, but they are a corporate newspaper. They are a money newspaper. They will be representing people who provide them with the most freedom and cash . And so we see this, you know, just prior to this book coming out because I think their book comes out today , they had this article about like the definitive thing that happened to Evstein at the end of his life, this is it, you know, it's a very long article. It's all rehashing most things that we know's. It interviewing a bunch of prison guards. It's glossy photos of them looking highly depressed . And then it's kind of like so there it is. There you go guys, there's the end of the story. Don't worry about it from here on out. This is what happened. He died, he killed himself, walk away . And so when I see that and I see a book coming out about Donald Trump and Epstein and conversations , I wonder what we're supposed what they want us to think when we've read these things. Like what is their goal for us to walk away thinking? Is it to close things down? Is it to give the American p ublic closure, right? Which means we're then not going to talk about this anymore, which my assumption is there's a little bit of that. Like that's how it felt with the Epstein article was now we don't want you to talk about this anymore. So we're going to wrap this up in a tiny little bow. Here you go. It looks very researched. It's a very long article, but here is every little bit of information you've never read before . Now it's done, now you can walk away. And it's like, well I'm not gonna walk away. Like that's great that that's your conclusion, but not everything here is conclusive, right? But the wording and like the academia I mean it's made to make , you know, average Joe Schmoe New York Times reader go, Oh, okay, cool. The New York Times thinks that then I'm going to think that too. And I kind of get that that's probably what the purpose of the book is . It will have my guess is the whole situation room is there only smoking gun. There may be other things, but like that's probably it and then it's probably a lot of rehash and like quirky personality traits of Donald Trump that they are getting on intel about how he picks his nose or whatever. Like it's going to be a lot of that, but it's made . I mean, it's made it's made for people to be like, oh whew, that's over. Okay , you're right. We can walk away. We'll just wait for twenty twenty eight kind of a thing. And it's like I'm not willing to do that. Like I'm not gonna walk away from a guy that picks his nose but also abuses children. I'm going to pay attention to door number two and keep going with all of this. And so you know, I'm not going to give money to Meggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. I will probably get the books from the library because I want to know what's in there , but I also want to pay for you because don't pay that objective about what I'm reading and remember that the people who pays their bills is the Sullsbergers and the Salzbergers wanted to hire Epstein to work at the New York Times. So you have to kind of like be like, are they going to go after Epstein and Trump? You know, would they do that? Probably not because guess what? They're in the files too. So like what is the motivation here? What do I where do I need to be my most objective reading these books ? Yeah, I think that's the question we have to ask with a lot of the various sources . And obviously, we know that these things aren't near ly complete. We know there's all sorts of documents missing. We know, you know, obviously you've reported a lot of this. So Sollsberger, we know shows up in there. But there's I'm sure there are people that show up in there that we still won't show up in that database . And therefore , there may be people purposely not covering them for very specific reasons because they do not want either that there were tied to them or tied to Epstein going to his parties and like really part of the whole thing like directly or even if they just were tangentially connected. I mean I mean I'm sorry but even tangentially sort of even knowing that somebody after what two thousand seven, two thousand eight was convicted in Florida of procuring a minor , you know , for what, I don't know what the exact charge is called, but it's sexual ity however prostitution of an underage right which is like that's not prostitution but okay go on. No it's not. Rape is what it is but knowing that that occurred and still being willing to sort of consort with this person in any way is a failure. Which is ninety nine percent of the people that he hung out with. Like there was there were the major benefactors like Leslie Webstner prior to his first trial , but almost everybody, he became famous, you know , New York famous after his first trial. That's when he started filling up his Rolodex. That's when he started becoming more corporate, you know, even the girls he got, he became more professional about making sure everybody had visas. Like this long list of famous famous, famous people that he knew was all twenty ten on . And if you look at 'cause I did this when I was writing about Howard Lutnick because Lutnik claims that Oh we felt so much better and didn't know anything. So we went to the island. It's like, well, I'm just gonna Google, right? Remember we have this thing called Google where you can just Google . How many articles came out in just New York City alone between twenty two thousand six, let's say when he's arrested to twenty twelve that talk about the thing that he did and why he went to jail , over a hundred articles just in New York City and Law. So it'd be very hard to just avoid knowing that he was a sexual victim. It's not humanly possible. You had to just be like, oh , it was a lot of people going like, Oh, he was probably , you know, he's a ladies man. He likes him on the young side, which is what everybody says in their quotations and you know, in the magazines , but like give him a pass because it's the New York City ninety nineties and everybody's at the clubs when they're thirteen years old, right? Like it was a lot of that and I say it again and again like there are people on substack with very big platforms who are on those dinner lists. And it's disappointing because you want people to be on the right side of history and being doing important things. But in order to do that, you have to acknowledge your place in that history and be like, I was wrong . I knew and I didn't say anything or I didn't know because here's, you know, ample evidence to show why I wouldn't have known like but people just hope you're not looking at those things and they're just like, oh dude, you know, yeah, was I at dinner at his house? Probably. You know, it's not that hard in life to admit that you were wrong and that you made mistakes in judgment and that oh I was there because I knew somebody else there and I was I wanted to speak with them but in retrospect I should not have been anywhere near that person in their house. I mean these are things you can say there are explanations you can give , we all , anybody, our lives are exposed completely. We've made errors in judgment. So just do that instead of trying to justify this crap. You know, well, I'm not kind of like that bumps up against this idea of like the secret dialogue guest list, right? That kind of like segues nicely into that. You know, we had this wired article that said they found a secret guest list, smoking gun, you know, all these people who are best friends with Peter Thiel . I stepped back from that conversation because I didn't feel like it was a smoking gun. Like there are many, many, many, again, and I've said this before, there are many versions of a dialogue conference in the US. There are these the Renaissance Weekend . There is the Yellowstone Club that meets on Ruper Murdoch's property in Montana , where they have these tech conferences, the guest lists are always secret going in, right? Invite, but they're never publicized. That's a common thing to have a secret guest list for privacy because they have really, really , really famous attendees . And so they don't publish the list online until after the event has happened . And so inevitably that's what happened here, but it doesn't put everybody off the hook for having gone. Like I think we are living in a day and age . When you need to research the things you're being invited to, you need to question why a ticket would be twenty, thirty, forty one hundred thousand dollars dollars why I'm going to Renaissance weekend. I'm excited. How are you? Yes folks. I got invited and it's awesome. These must be the worst marketing segmentation people in the world. Yeah I don't know how, but I'm gonna keep bringing it up. It's just funny . I just think that like if a ticket costs that much, it immediately says you're going to be in a room full of wealth in a vacuum . And usually that leads to bad things, right? Usually those are not the best people that you want to spend your time with . And why is this event not open to like the middle man, the and again, and I brought this up yesterday with Danielle, but I used to work for the deal book conference at the New York Times. I complained this year because they brought in a hood broke. I have not been invited back since. That is fine with me . But in this room, I would go in because I was considered part of the press, even though I was like a fan. Can I at the risk of yeah turning off say that you deserve a lot you deserve plaudits for that? Like that's a gig and that at that time you know you've grown on subsec and that's been great to watch. You deserve it obviously, but you were not at that point yet back then . And you know, that is a real risk. And this was your job and you took that risk because again , there's a point where our values have to be more important. There's a point where I mean, we all have to make judgment calls on things like this. And you knew if you didn't say anything, but I just bring this up because this is so important to me because again , you know, when I talk about my high school, it's the people who didn't say anything for three decades as twenty one or twenty two, twenty three different abusers, administrators, teachers abused over sixty different students . That's how that goes on. It's when people don't raise their voices . And even if your thing didn't stop him from being invited there, even if it didn't, you know, the fact that you took a stand and the fact that you made that look like that matters. That's part of the record now, you know. So thank you. Like just felt like the right thing to do and it felt obvious. Like it's one of those things where people are like, oh, thanks for doing that and you're like, But that was an obvious thing to do. Like he's I don't think it's obvious like felt like all of us should be here saying this, but I'm very you see the people that are around , you know, that spend their time around Epstein, it's not obvious to any of them. It's not obvious to people, anybody who had a vaving position at Fox News, and I could go on in a lot of places where it's not obvious . I'm not shooting my own horn or patting myself on the back, but I had to make a decision and when I decided that I was going to separate myself from my high school, there's a lot of alumni there that could potentially be helpful in certain ways that could, you know, do all sorts of things that are influential positions. But I could not abide by a place alumni themselves had to hire an independent sex crimes unit that had been formed in Manhattan at the DA's off ice, the first of its kind to go in and find out everything I just said in this report that was not shared widely enough because I mean, I'm sorry, I can't stare at sixteen Something kids who are victims of two or three of whom have committed suicide and twenty something abusers over thirty years and the fact that one of them was headmaster and recruited me to the school and I knew him and they knew and they didn't do anything about it and I just got lucky very Very logical. I remember thinking back during the Penn State scandal . They were just talking about how all these men like walked into the if you don't know that scandal, go look it up. But like men would walk in, men knew men, didn't report I just remember thinking like back then 'cause my kids were , I guess I only had one back then. She was a baby, but like I just remember thinking like if I had ever walked into a shower room with a teacher harming a kid, like the police would be their least worry . You know what I mean? Like, you go blackout angry and you do whatever you need to do to protect that. Like it just and it's not 'cause I'm a good person. It's not 'cause I'm like, ho, that's so heroic. Like that's just it's like gut instinct that you do that . And so , you know, in the case Greg here brings up in the chat , I just will say over at Substack, Ohio State and sitting here in Cincinnati. I mean again, there are at least I think three or four wrestlers , another coach and a referee who have implicated Jim Jordan and that and Jim Jordan never been in any formal. And they did it in front of a state legislature. They took the students took the oath . So they could be charged with perjury . You go up against you go up against college sports programs, man, you're taking your life in your hands, but it's you have to . You have to because again , even if it's just to have a record that people were held to account somewhere for people to refer back to so that if it happens again, you can see that this is a pattern . That's what I, you know, yeah, that's what I did with a hood brok because I mean it,'s it's on in Virginia Geoffrey's book. Like it's in the files. Like you, we know what he did. Why would you ever bring a person like that to speak at a conference ? You know, and this is a conference it's like two , three thousand dollars a seat. Like it's a room full of millionaires talking to a room full of millionaires, right? It's not a lot is getting accomplished there. And that was another thing too. Like, you know, because they have like David Zaslav speaking of this is right at the end of the union strikes and they had the head of the auto workers union is speaking and it's like, you know, it'd do a lot of good to have actual auto workers in the room or like sag employees in the room so they could ask their questions. Like those are the people who need to hear this, but you're speaking to people that this is an effect. All these people have a hundred million dollars in their bank account. Like they don't care . And I approached Andrew Rossorkin about that afterwards. I just said, you know, why are we not filling these chairs with people who can actually benefit from these conversations and ask the right questions? And he said because these people would never show up to speak if he did that . No, that's it, right? Yeah. It's the same reason why access journalism , they won't ask any tough questions because Trump would refuse . And yet I don't see unless you're catering to some right wing audience that isn't going to watch your mainstream media program anyhow, I just don't understand why then if he refuses an interview, I just don't have the courage. If he refuses an interview, then have an empty seat. Ask the questions you were going to ask actual Donald Trump. And then you can fill in answers what the public record says put a pupet . I mean if you made that right if you made that the situation so they knew by not showing up that you were just going to answer with the public record whether it's good, bad, whatever, you were going to just tell the truth. I bet they would show up. Right. And I, you know, again, I wrote a little bit about this this week, but just the idea that Donald Trump still doesn't seem to realize that independent journalism exists, which is fabulous for all of us. Like we have this little safe space for now . He still thinks it's CNN, who's his worst enemy, but it's like eventually a few of us, you know, maybe not me, but like a few of us are going to be in those press rooms. And I imagine we're going to ask questions. We'll probably get kicked out, but like we're gonna ask the questions that like the My Pillow Guy is not willing to ask Donald Trump in the real news outlet that definitely should be in the yeah . So I hope I hope I hope it gets to be me. I hope, you know, I get up there and he makes fun of me or says I don't smile or whatever and then I get to , you know , what I'd say back bigger and strong er and better than that in that room until I'm absolutely for whatever. Again, like what we're asking for here like I don't want you know, I'm not trying to create a situation Okay, only ask Republicans. First of all , there are Democrats or Democratic donors or people like that that were involved with Epstein circles and we have shown no mercy towards them. The Bill Gates and the people of that nature. Second of all, people involved in other scandals that were just as disgusting. Anthony Weener is a name that comes to mind more recently Eric Swall . We've also shown and I thought Swallell was awesome because he took on Republicans. And within twenty four hours, I wanted to make sure everything lined up and what people were saying. And once there were a couple of women on the record, and once they were saying they had similar stories, it was obvious . So I'm not asking for like special treatment . I'm asking for proportional treatment, for context , because if you have Donald Trump sitting there accused of sexual assault, actually an adjudicated rapist . If you have Pete Hegseth who settled a case where he was charged with this, if you have Ken Paxton running for Senate charged with this, you know, we can go on and on through these very there's that oh, who's that horrible house member Mills or whatever who's I think was his wife. I mean there's then it just ends up that a lot more of them are on the Republican side. And that's because Republicans have chosen to have chosen power over all principles . It doesn't mean there aren't any Democrats. , it aligns with a lot of like the Tradwife , you know, father daughter dances . Like it's like that mentality of like piece you wrote was great . Yeah, it's just well it just goes. I mean, like anybody's capable of doing this . A lot of men do this, a lot of wealth does this , but the people who keep it in place and make the walls around it are the people who really embrace the narrative of like the evangelical purity culture , you know, roles for women and men . That's what keeps it going, which tends to lean very heavily into the Republican Party. So, you know, Democratic power really yeah, Democrats are doing really disgusting things too , but like as a political entity , there is no support for that. It's more social justice and women's rights and that kind of thing, but they still do it. Like people, individuals still do those things. There are always going to be people that do those things for various psychological other reasons and we need to hold them all accountable. But that's what I've a lot of what I've written about when I'm talking about the billionaires . And it's the same idea as what you're talking about with the purity culture and evangelical churches is where you have powerful men and a lack of transparency and a lack of accountability and access to kids. These things are just they're going to happen. And those tend to be in more authoritarian cultural situations, you know, a billionaire who bosses everybody around, a church pastor at an evangelical church who nobody will question, you know, they tend to be more in those atmosphere s that are let's call them right wing friendly. But it's not to say that it doesn't happen at liberal camps and places. And of course it does, you know? And again I've decided to just call these things out in context call them as one should , which is I don't stop and look at your party affiliation first just because in the end many more of them have been associated with the Republican Party. If they weren't, that would make no difference to me. I mean, who Baracklike brought up was labor on the liberal side in Israel. Well, I think the Obscene Files has been a good lesson for all of that all of us that it has nothing to do with politics and it just has more to do with power and and that we shouldn't be giving people as much power as we do. Right. You wrote one thing and I bring it up because it's important here in the state that I'm in too. But I feel like you read something about Glenn Dubin, who is a hedge fund or private equity guy. Epstein set him up. Epstein dated his wife before he married her, which meant she was a modernist. Yep. And she went she was age . Went and bought the wing of Mount Sinai, yep, they own Mount Sinai Hospital. So Dubai marries her and they mostly gave money to Democrats . They were mostly Democratic donors. It doesn't change my opinion of them one bit. They're horrible, awful people who enabled and probably did worse and should be in prison probably. Oh yeah, did it worse . Well, you know the facts . I don't know exactly what they I know that certainly they were accomplices and knew had to know things, but if they compliment if they did things worse very active. But the one thing I will point out that I do enjoy pointing at not enjoy, but I think is necessary and is not talked about enough here in the state that I'm in Ohio, is there was one case where this guy gave to a super pack to support a Republican and that was Vec Ramaswami during the Republican presidential primaries . Vec Ramaswami who's now running for governor of the state and took more money from Less Wexner than it would take to get to the moon probably . On top of it, it took a hundred thousand dollars to superpack from Glenn Dubin. And so yeah, I'll be making sure everybody knows all about that as much as any platform here at Ohio right like if these guys were donating money in like two thousand four or something to some, you know, who nobody knew them from Adam. We didn't know about the Obscene Faulus, whatever . Now body if you see if you see Les Wexner's name on a check, you ripped that check up right away. You do not spend that . Well, every Republican in this state, there was a figure that came out has taken money from Les Wexner. So I wish them good luck with that. I mean, I'm sure some new candidates haven't, but every office holder in this state, Republican office holder, I think in the state legislature, in the executive positions or whatever, so maybe not some weird random county executive somewhere, you know, but like in any of those kinds of positions, they've all taken money from Wexner. So I wish them all well in the re elections as they try to explain their constituents or the guy that gave Jeffrey Epstein power of attorney over his money and engaged in rape and God knows what else and let this , you know, this compound has never been investigated once ever , yep , yep, one more place that they have never looked into . Because we have Republican office holders in this state and that's why we have to not elect Ramasami governor. We have to elect Amy Acton, and that's why we need to elect Jerry Brown and that's why we need to elect on the lower levels, numerous attorney general whatever because if we get a Democratic attorney general, we will get an investigation into Lesl Wexner. And the shame of it is it shouldn't take that . I'm not advocating like I don't want a Democratic I want a Democratic attorney general because they'll institute the rule of law and go after everybody . But yeah, that's the only way Les Wexner ever ends up being investigated here federally Do it before he dies, people. Like people have to stop dying out of the Ebstein files. It's like Congress. It's frustrating. And I know he sold it. I'll just say it quickly. I know we're out of time, but when I walk, when I was traveling in Italy a couple weeks ago, I can't tell you in the airports in like Palermo in Rome, whatever, seeing Victoria's secret just made me want to hurl. I mean, I know he doesn't own it anymore and whatever. I don't even care. Just at that point is in there. And it is still out there just I was sitting in I was doing an interview somewhere in New York and we were in this like warehouse and I was doing an interv iew and then there was other warehouse rooms used for other things . And somebody was doing a modeling shoot like right next door with a bunch of younger girls and I just wanted to be like, no get out of there 'cause I just I'm just like, you don't need to be here. You don't need to model for adult women's clothing. You're not eighteen years old. Get out of there. Like they can use adults to do. They don't need you . You know, I'm sure not that you need me to tell you ever what to write about, but I think one thing with your investigative skills and your background and your compassion, empathy for women and girls, whatever, I think one of the things you could do that would be an extension of what you've already done and whatever is because I didn't realize, you know, when that stuff first came out about Trump owning those beauty pageants, I didn't understand the disgusting nature of what those things were and the way that those were just basically set up so that these men could take advantage of women. And I didn't and maybe that makes me naive. I didn't know enough about it. And I read about him walking through and peeking in on sixteen year old girls and fifteen year old girls and bragging . I wonder like why would you have any kind of an event where underage girls march across the stage in a bathing suit in correct judges? Kids one. I was at a charity event here and the next door to us was one of these ones for kids and these little girls I mean, it makes my skin crawl. Like I don't even know it's hard to put it into words like these little six year old girls with makeup and hair with hair spray in it up and these little outfits John Bane Ramsay, right? It should fucking be illegal . Well, and I mean, not to go down that road, but like Michael Cohen was like VP of that the Misteen America and you know, that is another conversation that needs to be had. Yep. So I'll say it as the last thing is man , if you were to take a part and by that I mean look into like Trump just sending out a picture of the day of the daughter of what's his name Katzamedis or whatever it was. I didn't get that what that was. The owners of one of those mobbing agencies, right? But then there's the one well, what's his name? The lead singer of the Strokes who's awesome and hated his dad Julian . Is that his last name? Cass ie. Yeah, his dad was his dad was I know who you were talking about, but those agencies . Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Those agencies in general could really deserve somebody doing a deep dive into them and for because we don't know how long that was going on . I mean, I don't know how and how like the sort of brutality of it. And I mean, you know, again, I'm not telling you what to write. I just think you or Kate or someone who did a lot of justice . I know Carly Reilly is digging heavily into the modeling industry, but also like Diane Sawyer was reporting on this in nineteen eighty eight for sixty minutes and they didn't let it go anymore. She was reporting on Jean Lefer. She was reporting on all these men , you know, abusing the model s who were twelve years old. Like she talked about it. She did full episodes about it, and nobody did anything about it . So good on her for trying. Good on her, definitely for trying. That makes me casablanca put it in there. Yep, Ellie helped me remember that name. It was something I should know. I just am old and forget stuff and okay. Didn't have my brain drink today . Summer vacation every day's a wee weekekendnd so we all have brain. There you go . Well , this has been awesome . Not awesome in everything we've talked about, but it's awesome talking to you and we've even got some economic discussion in there, which is good. And hopefully updated folks on some of the things we've been talking about, writing about . I was going to get to a piece Ellie wrote but we can do it next week about a stalker and some things going on depending on how much you want to talk about that, Ellie . You wrote about it. So you're obviously gone public, but I don't know if much you want to talk about it. So maybe I might sit down and forget about it, but I would just recommend people go read it. You know, I think my hope is , you know, and he's already apparently read the piece and is now responding to it online, which is fun. But my hope is in so doing this I have met other people who've had the same experience and that especially for women in the independent journalism space how targeted women are that it gives, you know, because when I was going through it, I felt very like, I couldn't talk to anybody about it. It felt very dark and like , you know, do people believe you? Is this dramatic to bring this up? Will people be like, Oh, Ellie, you know, this happens to everybody kind of a thing . And then once I did bring it up, people were just like, No , you have to report that, you have to do an FBI report, you have to do a police report, that kind of thing. So it was very validating to actually talk to people who've done this before. But what I'm hoping for is just by writing this piece, which should be somewhere at the top of my subst ance page is just that if it's happening to you as well , that it gives you an opportunity to speak out about it and not sort of try to deal with it all by yourself, which is not fun to do. That is a great thing to do. Yeah, I mean sadly you do this long enough, you'll get threats and of course gendered ones that are aimed at women are always worse and so that's the downside as you do some good things but there',s some bad people out there who don't like that. But my dad's already reading it and freaking out, so thank you all for being here , including you, Ellie Leonard, of the Panicked Writer . And who am I? I'm Cliff Schechter BlueMamp edia BlueMamp. CO you can subscribe and we do these every Tuesday. Today is Tuesday, right? I'm losing drive everything. No, seriously, we do it every Tuesday at twelve. Often Kate Justice is with us. We may invite some other folks but twelve to one, we'll do these updates . And then we have various other shows. You can check them out and thank you for being here buddy. Thanks guys. We'll see you next week. All right, take care