Interactions with Donald Trump

Live . Okay, I'm always worried that I'm going to screw this up by watching my own life . Substack , but I want to see your questions. I want to I'm never gonna do this right guys. It's just never gonna happen. It's never gonna happen . That's okay . I see me I see me . It's so sad. Sorry guys . Some day I will be successful enough to have a tech person who I'll be like, go, do . All right, hi . My name is Ellie , if you are brand new here, I kind of feel like we're just a family at this point, but you know, new people can come in anytime and thus we will have a chit chat on right now Wednesdays and Friday nights, I'm seeing comments whether it's better to watch on YouTube or something stack. I guess it doesn't matter. They're both easy to access, so it's whatever, you know, your preference. I think this is going out on Facebook too. I don't know who's watching on Facebook. Okay, hi , happy Friday night . It is our first day of summer vacation, so we have been biking in the pool and by pool I mean like our little inflatable backyardy thing we have had a lot of berries already . I'm already complaining about the price of berries , but it's been a good day. It's been a lovely beautiful sunny summer day with my kids . And again they're always the reason that I am doing this so that when we talk about when we talk about the Epsene files , you know, we remember that it's about kids and the point is that we never, ever , ever want this to happen again . And so I do it for my kids. I do it for other people's kids. I do it for the kids that were failed . And yeah, that's that's why I'm here. That's probably why most people are here, I would guess to do something similar. So we are going to continue on today reading Sarah Callen's Deposition . I think most people by now know a little bit of the background, but Sarah Kellen was one of Epstein's four assistants who were considered co conspirators in his first trial in two thousand eight . They were given immunity. According to at least two of them, Sarah Kellen and Nadia Merchant Kova , they didn't know that they were co conspirators, they didn't know they were given immunity up until like two years afterwards. They didn't have lawyers . I mean, they didn't think they needed lawyers. They didn't they didn't think it had anything to do with them . Both of them, you know, Nadia came in at fourteen or fifteen years old . Sarah was twenty one So a legal adult, but both of them , you know, had kind of the typical grooming path with Epstein. And so again, it's one of these stories where you have to decide for yourself whether you consider someone a victim or a perpetrator, sometimes those lines are blurred . But I mean, even when you think of , you know, you think of stories of women who are in abusive relationships as adults with children there's that, you know, constant mantra of why didn't you leave? Why didn't you protect your children? Why didn't you do this or that or the other, it''ss a it lot of psychology and a lot of breaking people down to where maybe they don't have the same functionality of someone who's objectively looking out from the inside or looking in from the outside and saying like clearly, you know, you shouldn't have done ABC or D, you should have walked away , nothing is worth this . It's a lot of, you know, the question of Stockholm syndrome, that type of thing. So again, I don't, I'm not going to tell anybody what to think. I'm just going to continue on reading this deposition and then I believe Sarah Kellen has been invited back . I don't know if that means she was given immunity. I know she mentioned many times in this deposition that if she was given immunity, she would be willing to answer more questions . Some of the things that she wouldn't answer was she wouldn't say anything about massage. Would not mention it unless it had to do with her personally and she wouldn't mention basically wouldn't mention any other survivor because there was , you know, her lawyers in the room and there's this question of if can talk about anybody else's story or abuse and she's not going to do that in this in this deposition. So let's get started . I kind of feel like this one will be a little sh orter . Don't hold me to that, but we are at the end. This is part four. Okay , so they're coming back on the record . They are now in their fourth hour as are we. And so they're coming back after a recess and she's being she's now going to be deposed by someone who's redacted, whose name is not included. So Mr Redeck is asking her questions and he says , excuse me, Miss Callen, good afternoon. Hi . I'm going to start by following up the conversation during the previous round about the removal of certain items from Geoffrey Epstein's property. So if you didn't see the last one , Sarah Kellen talked about asked to photos and I believe like computer towers and bring them downstairs with the other assistants and put them on the kitchen table and then the lawyers who that included Darren Indeck at the time, who also has been deposed took those items and put them somewhere. She doesn't know where they put them. But at the time, the New York House was not raided . The assistants at the Palm Beach House were asked to do the same thing. That house was raided , so they were tipped off in some way. So a lot of missing evidence that the lawyers, including Darren Indeck knew about And it's very interesting how those two depositions line up. So okay, anyway , I think you spoke about that at some length. I don't want to make you repeat yourself, but I do want to make sure we're clear on the chronology and the detail s. So I understand from that discussion first of all that you overheard a phone call involving another assistant redacted. Is that correct ? Correct . The court reporter needs a verbal yes . Oh sorry, yes, sorry, sorry . Thank you . And could you just recount that conversation again so just so we're clear on the participants and the substance of it? Helen says, Jeffrey and I were on the island and I heard him on the phone and I heard him on the phone with redacted to tell her to go to the house, Palm Beach House . When did this conversation take place? Sometime in two thousand five, I believe . And mister Epstein told her Dad to go to the house. Sorry, I interrupted you . Sarah says, Yes. So she lived in Miami. She was based in Miami with her husband , so she would have been nem ach . So he told her to go to the house and get the computers and it was my understanding to give them to his attorney . Sorry, we're supposed to be looking at this, aren't we? There we go Did he say which attorney ? I believe it was Roy Black , but I don't remember if like I like knew at the time or if I found that out later . When he said to get the computers, did he mention any other type of equipment or hardware or was it just computers generally ? I just remember computers generally. Do you know whether Jeffrey Epstein had retained a private investigator at that point in time I knew he had one. I don't know exactly when he came into the scene. He had a strange voice and like a lisp . Do you sorry that's the interviewer, but I think it was William Riley was his name . Was there any mention of Mr. Reilly during the phone conversation with redacted ? I don't remember specifically . And do you have any knowledge with respect to where the comp uters ultimately ended up ? I don't. I understand there was another conversation that took place in New York, and this concerned the removal of the directory that we spoke about this morning. Is that correct? And by directory, they mean like the little black book . Yes . And when did that conversation take place ? That was, I believe it was Valentine's Day of two thousand six because I remember he called me during Valentine's Day during a Valentine's Day dinner with my boyfriend at that time and had me come to the house . And when you got to the house, who was there , Darren Indike and the other attorneys . I believe it was Gerald Luffcourt and potentially other attorneys . I just don't remember exactly Was Mr. Riley there ? No I think he was Florida based . And when you arrived, this was at mister Epstein's house in New York. Is that correct? Correct . Okay . And when you arrived at this meeting, do you recall what was said ? He just told me what to go around the house to gather into the dining room downstairs . He being Jeffrey. Jeffrey Epstein ? Jeffrey. And what did he tell you? He told me to grab printed photographs and directories is what I remember , and it seemed that the attorneys were just gather ing everything that they were going to take . Did any of the attorneys say anything ? I don't have a specific recollection . And the directories that mister Epstein directed you to gather, are those the same directories that we spoke about this morning? Yes . And where were those stored? They were placed by all the phones in all the houses . So these were hard copies ? Yes . And how many of them were there Many . They were in all the houses by all the phones. And so you gathered them up . Yes . Did anyone else do that with you ? I don't remember . And after you gathered them, what did you do with them ? Put them in the dining room on the dining room table ? Okay , and then what happened ? I don't know . Did anyone say anything about where they were ultimately they would ultimately be taken ? No . I just I was just I was just of the general understanding that his lawyers would be taking them. I don't know where they took them or what they did with them . Do you have any knowledge with respect to where the directories ultimately ended up? No . And you mentioned Mr. Indike was part of this group . Did he have a particular role in this endeavor ? I'm not sure . I think it was just Jeffrey's in house council, so he kind of had his hands in all of the legal things . And if I could just turn back for a moment to the investigation in Florida that you were asked about in the previous round , was there any point in time at which Geoffrey Evstein told you not to cooperate with law enforcement . No , did he ever tell you what to say to law enforcement ? No, I was never approached by law enforcement . Did anyone else instruct you or tell you how to interact with law enforcement in the event that they communicated with you ? Not that I can recall. There was mentioned during the previous round of the Florida Science Foundation sorry, there was mentioned during the previous round of the Florida Science Foundation. And I and I take it you're familiar with that entity , the Florida Science Foundation do a caveat here is the business that Epstein started up in order to have a place to leave to during his first sweetheart deal, his plea deal that allowed him to work for twelve hours a day, six days a week outside of the jail during his sentence for thirteen months . So he created a business called Flor theida Science Foundation that was down the hall from his lawyer that he would go to every day for twelve hours and he would hire the guards from the jail to work in his office and p heaid them . And as we've learned here, he's paid guards in money. He paid them in like Disneyland tickets . But anyway, it was not a real business. It was just something to have a place to go to so that he could leave the jail. Okay . So he says, are you familiar with that entity? Yes . Do you have an understanding as to when the Florida Science Foundation was set up? I don't know if it existed before his work release . Do you have any understanding as to why it was set up ? I assumed it was so he could get work release, have somewhere to go . To your knowledge, did the Florida Science Foundation have any genuine operations ? I have no idea . Did you ever hear anyone suggest the Florida Science Foundation was set up simply in order to give Jeffrey Epstein a place to do his work release . That felt like what was happening . Did anyone ever say that ? I don't know if those exact words, but that's generally what I understood . Do you recall any conversations about that . Not particularly. I just remember like being asked with buying furniture and setting up the office . Her lawyer says would you mind on the Palm Beach? Please, I just, if you don't mind, if we could clarify something , you interacted with the Palm Beach police before the search warrant, right? You mentioned this before, but relating to the theft in the house , Sarah said right, like before he was being investigated Her lawyer says yes . And Sarah says, and then they came and they put cameras in to catch the thief . So that's referencing her saying that the only cameras she remembers inside the house were in the Palm Beach home because money had gone missing. And so the police department supposedly, he had gone to the Palm Beach PD and the police department had put cameras in his home, which I haven't heard of that before. I don't know if that's normal , but they set up the cameras in his home to catch the person who was his old house man was coming back, who'd been fired, he was coming back and taking money and so they set up the cameras. So that's what they're referencing. The lawyer says, but that was only . And Sarah says that was the only time . And the lawyer says that you interacted okay . The questioning from Mr. Redacted continues on. Just to follow up, questions with respect to the birthday book that was discussed in the previous round . If I understood correctly and please tell me if I got this wrong, you were involved in scanning images from the birthday book. Is this right ? Yes . Okay, and that was after the book was presented to Jeffrey Epstein . Before , Galane reached out to whoever she wanted to participate in the book and then gave you they would give a submission and then we would scan the submission and print it out on uniform so that they were all the same size, paper and type of paper . I see. So you Sarah goes on. And then we had all of these papers bound in a leatherbound , in leatherbound books. I understand, thank you. Do you recall the specific entry in the birthday book that was provided by Donald Trump I don't . Did Donald Trump submit that entry directly to Gallaine Maxwell ? Most likely . Okay . Do you recall the convers ation? Do you recall any conversations about Donald Trump's contribution to the birthday book? I don't really remember any specific contributions to the book. I don't even remember my own . Now we have a new questionnaire who's also redacted, a miss redacted. I just have a few questions for you, Ms. Kellen. In the previous round, you spoke a bit about SLK designs employing a woman named Redacted , was this the only other person besides you that worked for SLK designs? Yes . And who did SLK, what were the clients of SLK designs? Was it just Epstein ? Just Jeffrey . Okay , and are you familiar with the name Arda Vescardis ? Yes. Who is he? He's an immigration attorney that Darren Indeck introduced me to help with the application for Redacted's Visa . Did he work for Epstein? Are you aware ? I think he had his own firm, but I know that I think he did a lot of work for Jeffrey. I remember him making when he introduced said he would give a good price because he had a lot of history with Darren . So it seems that they had worked together a lot had worked a lot together in the past . Do you know of the work they had that they did together in the past? I think he'd helped out with one of Jeffrey's girlfriends that I knew of. Other than that, I'm not entirely sure . When you say help , help with her visa . And do you know which girlfriend this was? Redacted . Was this the only time you interacted with Arda? Yes , thank you . During that process , she says, so she has a caveat . Okay , I have a few questions for you going back to Frederick Faci. This is the Hollywood hairstylist who was the first person to sexually abuse her and then introduce her to Epsin . I would just like to get a better sense of his relationship with Serfie Epstein . What was the understanding of that relationship Thank you for the person who gave a little donation. I really appreciate it . And also that little QR code up in the corner , that will take you to the Epstein Trump reading room donation link that helps them keep that going in DC right now and wherever they travel in the future so that more people can see the bios. Sorry, you if should have said that at the beginning . Okay , Sarah Kelly goes Sarah Kelling goes on. Jeffrey took me and himself and Galaine, and we all went to Fai's salon to get our hair done. And I believe that Jeffrey helped broker a deal with Fa qua and Elle Brands, Les Wexner's Company . I believe they bought Faquai's brand . Do you know when that deal would have been? It was during my employment because I remember his salon changed locations . It was like near the Chanel building at first and then it moved to Henry Bendel. Mispronouncing that which Les Wexner owned. Okay, so early on in your employment or maybe within the first few years . So was your understanding of their relationship Epstein and Fai, a social relationship or business relationship ? Both would be my understanding. I do remember a flight that Facai took on his plane to Paris one time for social activities I think he was just catching a ride . Do you know how the two of them met? I don't . It was before you met Facai and Evstein. Correct . And you mentioned that you and Galaine and Epstein would go and get your haircut there. Are you aware of other women that either worked for Epstein just in his orbit that would also go get their haircut with FaCai ? Yes . Were you aware of Epstein introducing women to FaCai? Baki introduced me to Epstein the first time I met him. Okay, but not Epstein. I don't know the other way . Okay . And you mentioned Wexter, so I'd like to briefly touch on. You mentioned meeting him a couple times . Were you ever aware of Evstein stealing money from Wexer No . I only found out about that in the press when Wexer said it happened . Okay, thank you . Now we have another M Rs.ededact . You mentioned Leslie Groff previously . What was your relationship with her ? We were coworkers. She was Jeffrey's executive assistant that worked in the office in New York. And Leslie Wexner was just deposed. Also, she came to work for Epsen, I believe in around , I mean, maybe in the nineties, late nineties, but she was thirty five when she started working for him and she was in her fifties when he died . So she was not a sexual target of his . Would you say you were close ? We were friendly but not, hing outside of work . When you would go to New York, where would you like what space would you typically work out of? So the first year is from about two thousand one to I want to say twenty ten, I worked at a Glain's house in New York out of her townhouse on sixty fifth Street . She had an office on the bottom floor, and then when Jeffrey was released from the house arrest in Palm Beach and came back to New York I started. working out of his townhouse at seventy first street . When Ms. Groff started working for Mr. Epstein, did she also work at this out of his townhouse? So she was at the Madison office in the beginning, and then when Jeffrey got rid of that office , he took over two apartments at three hundred and one East sixty six street, which is owned by Mark Epstein still to this day . And she worked in that office , one of those offices . And then when Jeffrey got back to New York after house arrest , Leslie, when Jeffrey was in New York, she would go out she would work out of that house. Otherwise, I think she stayed home stayed at home and worked out of the house if he wasn't in town . So after his house arrest, the two of you would work in the same space . She was on the main floor and I worked on the fifth floor of the townhouse . Got it. What was your understanding of her responsibilities ? She would keep track of his schedule. I would he would make all of his phone calls through her typically . He would just call and say, Connect me to this person, connect me to that person. She helped, I believe, with scheduling of the apartments at three hundred and one, like where the guests were, like, the scheduling the schedule of that, giving messages, like relaying messages from Jeffrey to various people to staff, that sort of thing. And did she also help with scheduling of the sorry, is this a different sixty six is that a different building than the one you just mentioned ? The three hundred and one E sixty six street . It's that yeah , okay great,, thank you . Would you also book travel Yes . And she would do that for his personal plane and also commercial travel Yes . And she would also schedule meetings . Is that correct? Yes . Correct. Do you know whether she paid girls and women ? I don't know. You said previously that there were some times when you were up in New York and I may be misphrasing this , something like sometimes a New York office would be closed and so you would have to do certain things the New York Office would do . Can you say a little more about that Generally scheduling appointments on the weekends at the office was closed because I was always with Jeffrey pretty much. So your work with her overlap s sometimes if she was not at the office Sometimes. Or if I Jeffrey would tell me something, you know, to relay to her, to schedule somebody. We would everybody kind of all the assistants were in contact with each other, so we kind of understood like what his plans were for travel and so we could be prepared . Got it . You previously said you met with Leon Black in New York and then had dinner with him in Paris. Is that correct? Correct . For the meeting in New York, do you remember when that was ? I remember seeing him a few different occasions come in to meet with Jeffrey. I don't have specific timeframes that I would be able to pinpoint . Could you place it like maybe before work release, after work release ? Definitely after . Okay . Potentially before , but I wouldn't have been in Jeffrey's New York home very much at all before the work release . Right . So you said there were a few different meetings. Any sense of how many? Three, five , probably two or three that I saw him come in . They would go into the dining room and have a meeting. I remember going to the Museum of Modern Art with him as well . For the meetings when they were in the dining room, did you get to be in there at all? Hear what they were talking about ? No , okay . And when you went to the Museum of Modern Art, was that you, Mr. Black, and Mr. Eps . Yes. Anyone else ? I don't know. I don't remember . Okay , we are now at Dunzada two fifty one PM and we are going to continue on with Ms. Redacted asking the questions . Do you remember what you talked about at all . I think I knew that he was like a donor or the maybe like a wing named after him or something. He was involved. He was a big art collector, so he had some involvement with the museum . What was your sense of Mr Black ally I knew that he had a mistress, and I remember I think his mistress was with him at the dinner in Paris and then I remember seeing him walking on Madison Avenue with his mistress and being surprised that he was so brazen and bold, out in the open with a mistress in the city that his wife lived in . And that is the same general time frame, at least like post work release, maybe? Maybe okay . For the dinner in Paris, so that was Mr. Black, Mr. Epstein, you, Mr. Black's mistress, anyone else ? I don't remember specifically . And where in Paris was it? At a restaurant ? Okay do you remember what was talked about? No . Okay . Did you have any other interactions with Mr Black . I ran into him after I stopped employment with Jeffrey at the Milken Conference. I think it was in I want to say it was in Singapore and I said hello and it was a very short interaction Do you know approximately what year that would have been It would have been probably twenty fourteen, fourteen or fifteen . Was there anyone with him ? It was kind of just like a general public area. I don't yeah, I don't remember him being with anybody got it. Do you know if Mr. Black ever went to Little Saint James? I don't know, not that I witnessed or recall him being there . And just a step back a bit, what was your understanding of the nature of the relationship between mister Epstein and Mr Black ? I assume Jeffrey was managing his money. Anything else ? They seem friendly , but previously, you mentioned a photograph that you took of a number of different men. I believe in New York City. Larry Summers, Jose Staley , and others . Uhhuh . Correct? Correct . Do you remember approximately when that was twenty eleven, maybe twenty ten, twenty eleven, probably . And was it in Mr. Epstein's? It was in his New York home . Okay , it was in the foyer, outside the dining room . And she's referencing the picture that I think most of us have probably seen by now that has Bill Gates , Epstein , Leon Black, Just Daley, I think Leon Black is in it. It has Just Daily and then it has Boris Nicholk who worked for Bill Gates and they're just kind of all lined up . So her lawyer says, This was after he was back from work release. If you don't mind me asking ? Harris says, Yes , okay, back to the questioning by Ms. Redacted . Do you remember why all those men were in his home? Was it a dinner, meeting? I think it was a dinner . And how did you come to take the photograph of them ? When we had dinners like that, he would have me just stay in the house a lot of the times to be available to either help serve or if there was anything that needed he needed while he was in the meeting. So I remembered that they had a meeting in the dining room, and then they came out, and Geoffrey asked me to take a picture of all of them together . Do you have any sense of what the meeting was about? I don't . Do you remember any one else who was there but who was not in the photo ? No . Okay . Did you have any other interactions with mister Staley? mister Staley worked. He was Epstein's banker, high up guy at JP Morgan . I know that him and his family flew on the plane one time, his wife and two daughters . Were you on the plane with them? Yes . What was your sense of him personally that, he was Jeffrey's private banker. Any other interactions ? I think just from the photograph, like when he would come to the house for meetings , it was maybe just seeing him in passing kind of thing. But I mean nothing substantive that I can remember . I just know like I know the name. I know who he was . Sure . Did you have a sense of mister Staley's personal relationship with Mr. Epstein . They were definitely friendly for sure. I feel like when Jes moved banks then Jeffrey moved banks with him or something . Okay . And it was JP Morgan the Barclays, I believe. Sorry . I think it was JP from JP Morgan to Barclays . Got it, thank you. All right, now we have Mr Redacted asking questions . Two quick questions, going back to the Florida Investigation and plea . And the first one concerns Richard Conn, who is Epstein's accountant. Do you have any knowledge of when mister Con became aware of Mr. Jeffrey Epstein's arrest? No . Did you ever talk about that with Mr. Kahn ? No . And the second question is concerning Bruce Reinhard, whose name came up in the previous round. Do you have any idea how he came to be associated with Geoffrey E pstein ? I don't. I wasn't I'm not sure if maybe Jack Goldberger may have made an introduction because they shared the office in Florida . And then fast forwarding again in time twenty eighteen, specifically December of twenty eighteen, it's my understanding that Jeffrey Epstein made a payment to you in the amount of two hundred fifty thousand dollars . Am I right about that ? Yes. What's your understanding as to why Jeffrey Epstein paid you that amount of money ? I was telling him about the financial situation between me and my ex husband that we had gutted our apartment a few months before he was in the hospital with emergency open heart surgery and had to stop his career and wasn't making any, didn't have any income . So he spent basically his entire savings trying to rebuild the apartment and it wasn't enough . And then we were trying to refinance and we couldn't refinance unless it was livable, but we couldn't make it livable without refinancing it. So it was just a bad, stressful situation. And I remember telling Geoffrey about it and expressing it and he just got on the phone and Richard called Richard Cohn and said, Why is Sarah this money? So I assumed it was to kind of help alleviate some of that stress. During the course of that conversation, did he ever mention the investigation that was underway in the southern district of New York? No . Did he ever mention the series of articles that had begun to appear in the Miami Herald in November of twenty eighteen . I believe that I mentioned it to him and he kind of just dismissed it. He was like, it's the same thing , like the same thing that just being regurgitated . Like kind of just was like whatever, it's old news and just kind of dismissed it . And you mentioned it during the same conversation ? Yes . Okay . Did Jeffrey Epstein tell you not to mention the two hundred fifty thousand dollars payment to anyone? He did. Did he tell you why he didn't want you to mention it? He did not. Did you have an understanding? I had no idea. I didn't know if he maybe didn't want to make other people jealous or something . And did you ever suspect that the timing of the payment was an indication that it was intended to keep you from working with the Southern District of New York or other law enforcement . That was not my understanding. Like I said, he sort of just dismissed the Miami Herald articles and I wasn't aware that there was an investigation happening at that time . When was the last time you were in contact with Jeffrey Evsen ? He would occasionally email me like on my birthday. Happy birthday type thing. I don't remember the one the last time was Did he ever contact you after his arrest in twenty nineteen? No . I have just one follow up question on mister In ike and Mr. Khan, the lawyer and the accountant . Did either one of them ever open up a bank account for you ? So there was a bank account for SLK designs. I don't remember exactly. I may have opened it myself , but then like redacted manag ed it kind of the payroll for Redacted and that sort of thing . I didn't really I didn't deal with it . Redacted managed the SLK account? Yes . And did she do it on behalf of Mr. Khan They worked together , I don't know how they divided their responsibilities , and did either Mr. Khan or Radak to have control over the bank account , over the account , meaning could they make deposits and withdrawals ? Yes . And did they have that sort of control over any other accounts that you were part of or owned? No. And her lawyer says, Can I just ask to clarify what about did you have like work credit cards ? Were they ? And she said, I have and the lawyer continues on, were they able to make payments on them ? Sarah says, Yes, I had the type of work credit cards that they that they paid He goes back to questioning her Did they ever make any payments whether from a bank account or a credit card account that you were unaware of and found out about later ? I don't think so . Or without your consent , if they had, I'm sorry , he goes again. Did they ever like make a payment from any of the accounts we've been talking about, be it a bank account or a credit card account without your knowledge or consent ? It could have been possible. I don't I'm not aware but they would have been able to, you know, have checks or whatever from the SLK design designs account . Ms. Redacted goes back to questioning . Miss Kellen, I just have a couple questions . Last August, Celaine Maxwell was transferred to a minimum security prison . How do you feel about that decision ? Sarah says, I find it suspicious . Not quite sure why that would have happened. You find it suspicious because the nature of her crimes aren't consistent with being in a minimum security prison . I don't know what kind of prison she's meant to be in for those crimes, but it seems kind of like she's being treated favorably . Okay , so you disagree with the decision to move her to a minimum security prison ? Yes . And there's been reports that she has been given special treatment in this new prison. How do you feel about that? It seems like we're kind of repeating Jeffrey's experience in prison , being treated favorably and getting special treatment, that was Sarah. Uh huh, understood. Thank you . Miz redacted goes on to question . One quick follow up. With respect to Leon Black, you said his mistress was with him at the dinner in Paris and then also you saw that you saw her with him when you ran into him on the street or you saw him walking . I saw him walking, yeah . Do you remember the mistress's name? I don't . Was it the same person in both instances ? Yes . Okay, thank you . Melanie Stansbury steps in. Hello . Hi . She says, Thank you so much for being here today . So I hold on . Sorry . So I represent New Mexico's first congressional district . Zora Ranch is not in my district but adjacent to my district and I'm sure you're aware, you've probably been seeing in the news that our state legislature has opened a truthission Comm. It's a legislative body and part of what our truth commission is trying to do is to establish the facts around the ranch, what happened there, whether or not abuse happened there . I know that you were asked some questions earlier, I wasn't able to be here this morning so I just want to follow up on some pieces of the story that are of particular interest to our commission and also your experience there because I understand from the earlier questions that you had traveled there . So I understand from your bio that you were involved on the day to day basis in management of the affairs and properties of Mr. Epstein. Did you also play that role at Zoro Ranch as well ? I wasn't really involved in like the he had staff, like permanent staff that lived at the ranch that managed it and took care of it . So what was your specific role at the ranch then? It was more just still in the capacity of Jeffrey and Glain's personal assistant. Okay . So was that only when they were physically there that you played that role? Yes . Okay . So who managed the day to day affairs when you were not there? There were several people. Karen and B ryce Gordon. Gordon. Gordon. Okay . They were kind of the main ones . They were definitely ones before they there were definitely ones before their employment. I just don't remember. There was like a kind of driver manager. His name was Manolito. I don't remember his last name . Uhhuh . There was yes. There was a woman that she there was a woman manager in the very beginning and I don't remember her name exactly . And then eventually Bryce Harrin took over sorry, Bryce and Karen took over for her . And are there sorry, go ahead ? Sarah says, Sorry, I'm just trying to think of the other staff. Yeah . I know that there were a few other staff members that worked on the ranch and I just don't remember their names . Okay . Are there any other persons associated with the ranch that either worked for Mr. Epstein or that you believe had knowledge about the ranch, its operations , what happened there that you think the Truth Commission should speak with ? I think Bryce and Karen would be the most knowledgeable . Okay , and I did mention earlier our Truth Commission would love to speak with you if you're willing to at some point . And so I just want to extend that invite to you. So I know you were asked earlier about your travel to the ranch . Do you know about how many times you were there ? I typically went once a year in August . Uh huh with Jeffrey and I have been a few other maybe two other times by myself with a few friends that he offered it as like a birthday present for me to go . Gotcha , sometimes . And when you guys would go in August, about how long would you stay ? I want to say about a week about a week maybe two weeks. He didn't stay in one place for very long . I find that interesting that he only went to Zoro two weeks out of the year to his eight thousand acre ranch. No , I don't know how I feel about that. I believe that. Okay , Mr. Stanbury says, and how did mister Epstein use the ranch? He would go on walks , exercise . Was it like a retreat for him? Was it a place of business? Did he bring people there He would have guests. He also had meetings. There was some sort of science, I think it may have been in Santa Fe. There was a scientist Murray Gelman that was based out of there that would come often and see him . Maurice Gelman Murray Gelman . Murray . I think it was like G E L M A N ap perhs . Okay . I forget the name of what he worked with, but it was some sort of science thing that was in the area . And I believe that was the Santa Fe Institute is what she's referring to. Okay he was friendly with the governor, Governor Richardson . Did you ever see Mr. Richardson there? I know I met him, but I don't know if he was specifically on the ranch . Are there any other notable figures you saw at the ranch? Tom Ford? He had a ranch adjacent to Jeffrey's and he invited him to lunch one time. It was Tom Ford and his partner. I don't remember his name . Any other notable figures? Public figures ? Not that I specifically remember right now . Okay , and I know this is a sensitive issue. And if you don't feel comfortable discussing it , I understand . But I know you've self identified yourself as a survivor as well. If you feel comfortable saying so, were you ever sexually abused at the ranch ? Yes . Are you aware of others who are abused at the ranch? The lawyer says, I think we and Melanie Sansbury says, if you're comfortable sharing, the lawyer says, yeah, I think we're trying to avoid other victims at this time Even if that's okay, counsel, to ask and to ask of you, and I know these are difficult and re traumatizing questions. Even if you're not comfortable sharing about names of other people , do you feel comfortable saying that you are aware that there are others that were abused at the ranch? I have no idea . I have no doubt that there was, but I am not specifically aware of certain melanie s Sansburyays, Do you feel comfortable sharing if you know that there were people who were abused that were both local and people who were transported there from elsewhere ? Part of what we're trying to understand because there's a few locals who have said they were brought there for various reasons, but also there's reports in the FBI files of complaints of people who say they were transported via plane . And so are you aware of both of these instances , even if you don't want to say specific people . The lawyer says, Can we go off the record for a second? Yes . And Mr. Reduct says off the record. They discuss something off the rec ord. Mr. Redacted says back on the record and the lawyer says, just trying to make sure we're sensitive here . Derrick Kellen says, I know that there were other women around the ranch. I just don't know specifically what happened to them or whatever like if they were abused or not . And Mr. Stanbury says, But you are aware that there were other women who were both brought to the ranch who were, local as well as non local, who were on the ranch property . I'm not aware of anyone locally . Okay, got it. And to that end, are there people aside from the individuals that you already mentioned that you would that you feel would help us fill out the story of the Truth Commission and what happened in New Mexico that we should be asking questions of? Sorry, repeat that. Sorry, she says. I know that was a complicated question . For our truth commission in New Mexico, who's really trying to understand what happened in New Mexico , are there other individuals that have important pieces of the story that we should be interviewing that would understand the ranch? What happened there ? Probably the staff that lived there and managed it that were there all the time and that would be the individuals you already mentioned . Uhhuh . Are there any other assistants or people that played a similar role as you that you think we should ask questions of? I'm just trying to remember specifically who is on the ranch . Would you mind if you don't mind? I think at one point, I just want to make sure we're clear. You were asked when you weren't there who was managing the day to day affairs . When you were there , were you managing the day to day affairs or was it one of the other staffers that you mentioned , the staff that was there ? They managed the day sorry, the lawyer says they managed the day to day a ffairs whether you were there or not there . And Sarah says, Yes That's what I'm trying to get at. Okay . And then, oh, I think you mentioned, oh, I'm sorry , when you were talking about your role at the ranch, did you work on like sort of special decorating projects or so this is the lawyer asking all these questions. I'm not sure why. And Sarah said, sometimes , the lawyer says, Yeah , not a lot at the branch. We were there so seldomly . Okay ? It was like literally a week, maybe two. That's generous. A year . Okay, thank you, you thank. I'm sorry, Congresswoman . Melanie Stansbury says, and just to clarify, I'm not trying to establish any specific activities . We're trying to currently put together more of like a witness list, who was there, who saw things, who heard things ? Uh huh . So I just want to clarify that . So are there other assistants and people who traveled with Epstein that you saw at the ranch that would know about the ranch . There were definitely other assistants. I don't know how much they would necessarily know about the ranch . Like they would have kind of just traveled in and out like I did . And who was that? Who else was there? Redacted . And the lawyer says, and we'll make a redaction request if there are names that and Sarah Callan says redacted, redacted, redacted I'm trying to remember specific names. It was so long ago . The lawyer says, If you don't mind if I ask, would the assistants have traveled to the ranch on his plane ? Would that be the bulk of the names or were assistants traveling by commercial plane ? Both, but mostly on his plane. Okay . Melanie Stansbury says, well, we'll definitely look at the flight logs as well so that's helpful to know. And I know because we have somewhat limited time that we're able to ask questions . I do want to give you another opportunity . I did hear you say within the last hour and then I'll turn it back to our attorneys that you wanted to make sure that people understood the level of manipulation that affected you as an assistant and how that how that contributed to your abuse. Can you share a little bit more about what that looked like . If you feel comfortable and it doesn't cause trauma , sure . She says, Sarah Callen says he was very good at targeting vulnerable people. He would get to know you and your situation and then offer to help . Like with me, he offered to pay off my credit card debt the first time I met him. He asked me what I wanted to do with my life and I said I wanted to go to FIT, which is the Fashion Institute of Technolog y and study yoga and pilates. And he's like, well, you can do all those things if you work for me . And he would dangle he would dangle a carrot. I mean, he would make false promises all along the way , like he said he would put the apartment that I lived in in New York in my name if I made it working for five years for him, which he never did. And he kept continuing that promise through the years never did. So he would act kind of like your Savior, your caretaker. And that is how I viewed it in the beginning, like how I reference like, oh, he's being so generous and not understanding myself that it was a form of control. Uh huh . When I only got paid twenty five thousand dollars a year, like I couldn't afford to live where I wanted to live. I had to live where he told me to live. When he took me clothes shopping, I was like, Oh, he's so generous , but it wasn't clothes that I chose . And I trusted that his taste was superior to mine that he knew better. And then if I wore something he didn't approve of , he would look at me dismissively and be like, Where did you get that? It's disgusting. Throw it away . So he was very good at just decimating your ability to make your own decisions and to have your own autonomy. And it made you more and more dependent on him . He would tell people that he paid for two of my friends. They were also his assistants, college education , but it was contingent upon them taking the classes that he told them to take. And when they like wavered from that, he stopped paying for for their schooling . So he just you had to abide by every rule of his to yeah . This is helpful. Thank you. And I'll turn it back. I appreciate your sharing. That was Melanie Stanbury. Okay, long name . Mr Krishna Krishna Morthy , how much time do we have on the clock ? Ten minutes, Sisman redacted. He says, We have ten minutes left . Yes . He says, Okay, great. Okay , I'm so sorry for mispronouncing things. I'm Raja Krishna Murthi from Illinois district and thank you for coming in. Some very specific questions. And I was here for the first party you were questioning this morning, but I missed some of the middle part so I apologize if this was asked . Have you met Donald Trump? I did meet I did once at Marlago for maybe five minutes in my first or second year more page off of employment probably two thousand one or two thousand two . Okay , and what was the nature of that interaction? The five minutes? Jeffrey used to go to the gym at Marlago and I went with him one time and Mr. Trump was there and he rey introduced me to him . And what year was that? Probably two thousand one, two thousand two . Okay , and did you see or witness anything untoward in your action with Donald Trump? No, it was just one of like the main rooms at Marlago . Okay , he was kind of like introducing me and that was it. It wasn't like a very long interaction . And that was the only interaction you've had, those five minutes in two thousand one and two thousand two in Marlago? Yes, for me personally, yes . Okay , how about Melania Trump ? I've never met her . How about any other member of the Trump family ? I met his sons through my ex husband. He was friendly with them . I'm sorry My ex husband was friendly with D Jra.wn and Eric so, I met them not through Jeffrey, but through my ex husband . The ex husband who my second ex husband, Brian Vickers . Okay , okay. And what was that interaction with them at the time . Sarah says, I remember having lunch with him in New York. What year was this? It would have been probably we were married in twenty thirteen, so it would have been sometime after twenty thirteen. Okay, and it was a social occasion that you met them for lunch? Just for lunch, yeah . Okay, okay, got it. Any other members of the Trump family ? I don't think so . Okay , is there? I'm just gonna name some agencies, you know, like three letter agencies . Have you heard the word FSB in your time with Jeffrey Epstein? When you were employed with him, I'm saying doesn't sound familiar. Massad ? No I don't think in relation to Jeffrey CIA ? No . MI five ? No Did you ever come across an interaction or are you aware of any interaction between Jeffrey Epstein and any foreign intelligence agency ? I don't remember there being I don't know the exact situation, but his bodyguard Igorzanov , I remember there being something about him taking a class or something with the CIA and getting a certification or something I don't know exactly what it was or how it came to be Okay , and you've heard about and we've heard about that this Igor character . Uh huh . Igor, he was supposedly a guard for him in the jail or whatever they call it during his work release . He was his personal trainer. And then when Jeffrey went to jail, he was sort of his driver and bodyguard after that. Okay, Igore . Did you ever have any interaction with Igore ? Yes . Okay . And did Igor have any are you aware of Igor ever having any interaction with a foreign intelligence agency ? Other than I don't know, I don't know how I knew or heard that he had taken some sort of like course or something with the CIA . Okay , but not a foreign like a foreign one. No , okay . Finally , I want to just turn to financial transactions . I understand that there was a wire transfer that they talked about or some kind of financial transaction that you folks discussed . We are aware of one point well, one, point five billion in wire transfers that were picked up in what are called suspicious activity reports that are kept by the Treasury Department and banks have to disclose them . What is the largest wire transfer that you are aware of that Epstein was involved with? Sarah says I wasn't aware of any other large transfers except the ones that he sent to me . Okay , and those are the only ones that you're aware of Yes By the way by the way, Wexner have you met Wexer? Yes . You did. Okay Wexer made a very large wire transfer, made very large transactions with Mr. Epstein supposedly to pay him for financial advice . What is your opinion on that, or what is your knowledge of that? I don't have any knowledge of their business dealings or how much he was paid or any of that . Okay . Galaine Maxwell is now seeking, by the way, before this interview, you did not have any interaction with the Trump administration, correct? Or any members of the Trump administ ration? No . You mean in preparing for this interview, that's the lawyer . And Mr. Krishna Morthy says correct . And Sarah says no . And nobody reached out to you ? No . And no other actors or entities reached out to you either, right ? No , okay, good . Glain Maxwell is seeking clemency right now. You're aware of that , right? Yes . She's seeking a pardon. I presume that you would agree that she does not deserve any form of clemency . I would agree . And why is that? Sarah says, She abused me . I believe that I always had this sort of belief that she's the one that turned Jeffrey into a monster that he became how many people do you think Glen e Maxwell specifically participated in it using? You don't have the name names, I'm just saying numbers . Ask the question again, sorry . I'm asking you how many people ballpark do you believe that Galaine Maxwell personally participated in abusing. I'm not asking you to name names, I'm just saying ballpark. Are we talking hundreds? I don't know. I didn't witness anything but my own abuse with her . You never witnessed Glene Maxwell participating in any abuse of any other person . No , okay I think that's all for me. Thank you. The lawyer says, May I just make sure the record is clear because you asked about if it's alright, you asked about her meetings with foreign intelligence officials . You did travel and meet with foreign government officials with Mr. Epstein right in Israel and Russia and places like that, but you just don't you don't have knowledge either way if there were intelligent officials in those meetings. Is that right? Serra says yes . Mr. Krishna Morthi get this right says sorry, two questions . Ministry of State Security. Have you heard of that? MSS ? No . Have you met, do you know if Jeffrey Epstein ever had any contact with Zi Jinping who's president of China . No , Vladimir Putin ? No, he interviewed he had contact with someone that used to date Naomi Camel that was Russian, flat, flag something. They had lunch at Palm Beach . Okay, but not Putin . Not that I'm aware of no , okay . And when you were in Moscow, do you remember meeting with anyone? No. From the Russian government ? Well, we did have dinner in Moscow with I think he was one of the head of the Chechnyan rebels in probably two thousand three , I want to say with one of the heads of the Chechen rebels yes , okay, okay. In Moscow ? In Moscow . Okay , okay, okay . It was a dinner with a bunch of people and he had rebels or the people that were sent to suppress the rebels or don't you don't know . And Sarah says I was . And then he says, okay. And she says very ignorant about all those sorts of things at the time I understand, okay . I recognized kind of his name and picture from the press . Okay . And he had like armed guard s around him at dinner . Okay ? In Moscow . And you didn't have any contact with anyone from North Korea ? No . Or Iran ? No . Okay , thank you Miss Redacted says you just said you said just a few minutes ago that you think that Ms. Maxwell made mister Epstein the monster that he was. Can you say more about that ? Sarah says she just wouldn't like her whole life was just pleas ing him and giving him whatever he wanted making sure everybody did exactly what he said to do and made him entitled . Like she, you know, he was wealthy and he was looking to maintain she was looking to main aint her lifestyle that she was accustomed to, that she grew up with , and she had all the connections . And I feel like she kind of taught and shaped Jeffrey into who he became , showed him how to use his money. Like he didn't have private planes before her. He didn't have the townhouse before her. Like she kind of showed him how to he should live his life. This is very interesting because I absolutely think the same thing . And I think that it created the sense of entitlement that he could do whatever he wanted . Ms. Redacted says got it. Thank you. Mr. Redacted says very last question and it's a short one. I'm going to run a name past you. Akhmad Kadrov, is that by chance the Chechen leader who you met in Moscow ? No, that doesn't sound familiar . Okay , the lawyer says, Can we get off the record for a second? And he says off the record. They have a discussion off the record and they come back on and he says and we're back on. The lawyer says, so I think the question was, did you remember this person ? And Sarah says not that particular name. There was another name. It was like Umar or something along those lines. Yeah . Mr. Redact says, and we are done . Miss Kellen, thank you very much and we are off the record . It concludes at three thirty five PM. This all took place may twenty first twenty six less than a month ago . Okay , so that's the conclusion of the most recent Sarah Kellen deposition . She had one small deposition if you want to call it that maybe twenty ten where she just plugged the fifth the whole time. So this is technically the second one for the purpose of I believe the purpose of a criminal case . Again, I believe she has been invited back . I don't know why potentially more questions or they can get her immunity so she can answer the questions that she couldn't answer in this one . She is not under investigation. She is simply part of the investigation into the people who are considered , you know, the cohorts of Jeffrey Epsen, Leon Black , Glenn Dubin, Leslie Wexner , the lawyers who clearly you know, cleared out the house prior to the raids . Not sure how you get past that one in court, but you know, the justice system is just so so much fun right now and so absolutely corrupt . Okay Okay , so that is where I'm going to finish off for tonight . I think after this, there's so many different places to go in the FSE files . And so I'm always open to suggestions, but I really, really would like to dive into a lot of cases the cases with Gallaine Maxwell. I'd like to dive into her profer. I'd like to dive into all the deposits that were part of her civil suit with Virginia Dufre . There are some pretty damning stories that we don't often hear and they're dark and they're traumatic and so I will always try to add trigger warnings when I feel that they are fairly triggering. I didn't add one to this specific discussion and maybe I should have, but there wasn't a lot of I mean the assumption is abuse happens but there wasn't a description of abuse . So that is something that I ask of you, if you guys decide to do Epstein Files readings, which I think we all should do. You know, the more the merrier get this stuff out there . Always include a trigger warning at the beginning just for people who can't listen to that type of thing without being reharmed. You just want to make sure that's in there . But yeah, I really want to dig into more of the Glain Maxwell stuff because I do not want her to get pardoned. I want all her shit out there . I want every little piece of everything she's done because yes , I have read some really , really terrible witness testimony of the things she's done herself to victims, like weird, stupid , gross role playing, terrible , really terrible stuff . So anyway, I don't want her to get out of jail. I want her to go to worst jail. She is now at the Brian , the Brian Texas prison camp , the thing about that location, and this all kind of stands back to that situation room discussion that the New York Times wrote about The prison camp that she's in right now is a minimum security prison. Where she came from in Florida was a low security prison , which there is a difference , but in a minimum security prison where she is right now , A, they are not supposed to house people who have longer than a five year sentence. She currently has a twenty year sentence and they said they don't house sex offenders and obviously she's a sex offender. So something is very fishy . When she has people visit her and she has her legal teams visit her just in the same way that happened with Jeffrey Epstein . Nobody else who is in the jail with her can have visits from anybody. She gets priorities, she gets food delivered to her cell . There are lots of complaints from her about temperat and you know, she often uses the excuse that she's she gets no sleep and so her memory doesn't work anymore because it's messed up her memory so she can't remember anything that happened and thus she gives a very bad deposition, right? Like really, really stupid stuff. So you know , I'm going to go after her in some of these. I think that's where I go next again up in the corner and I feel like I'm pointing at it right now, but when I turn around, it's going to say I'm pointing the other direction. But up in the corner is the QR code for Trump Epstein Reading Room, which is now in DC. It's headed up by David Garrett, but it's, you know, it's a collaboration of a great team of people . But it is all based on donation and funding through that . So if you have a couple extra bucks, they can really use the help . They are trying to be there as long as possible. They're right down the street from the DOJ, which is lovely . Again, they have gosh, three thousand four hundred and forty volumes of files . Each volume contains eight hundred pages . And when I was at the when I was at the reading room when I was in New York, it was two stories. I mean, it's a full long room, but it was two stories long. So it's like it's a lot of files guys, it's a lot of files. And this is not everything. We still have if we believe Pam Bonnie, we still have two point five more million files to go. I put out an article this week and normally I don't like to put my own stuff in here because I kind of want to just have it be about this , but I think this one's important because it spotlights the violations of the E pstein Transparency Act , which we kind of forced Trump to sign . He did not want to. He did it very becouragingly . So I posted just an it's not really even really an article . It's just kind of like examples of the violations and kind of categorizing them into violating by redacting perpetrators, not redacting victims , how certain period s of time the files just don't exist. You can't you can Google or search on the DOJ page and you will not find files from certain years like they aren't in there . I will let you guess what those years are because there was a friendship in there that happened to be in those years so if you are on my substack, everything's free , you can go in there and I recently posted an article that just says , yes, Todd Blanche, attorney John Blanche is violating the Obsteine Transparency Act. And it just gives really clear like really clear examples. It falls on the coattails of Kay Fang's lawsuit that she has filed against him in the DOJ . It is so cut and dry and so obvious and so easy to just, I mean pull a single file and show violations in every single page. So I recommend going to look at that for examples and then finding your own examples because the more we can find the greater case there is , but also it's just it's a silly it's so easy to prove that it's been violated. Like it's just it's everywhere. So anyway, okay, I love you all. Have a great Friday night. I will post the link to the reading room and the notes and a few other things and but otherwise stay safe and have a great weekend and I love you calculated later