LCD Protectors and Screen Protection

Hey, welcome to the Petapixel podcast. For expert advice, incredible selection, and the best deals on photo, video and lighting gear, You go to B andH BNH is Petapixel's new gear partner. and for even greater savings at BNH, we recommend the BN H Payboo credit card, which lets you save the tax. You pay the tax and BNH pays you back instantly. Save the tax on eligible purchases shipped to eligible states. O you can pay overtime with our six and twelve month financing on minimum purchases of one hundred and ninety nine dollars for six months or five hundred and ninety nine dollars for twelve months Terms apply, learearn more at bhphoto. com slash payboo Credit card offers are subject to credit approval, Payboo credit card accounts are issued by Commenity Capital Bank Wait a second, is this another conventional looking episode of the Petapixel podcast where we're not all in weird locations or sitting side by side with each other at desk? It sure is. We're back home everybody, and I'm joined today. Oh, I'm Jordan Drake. And I'm joined today by my good friend Jarren Schneyder Hey hi Chris Nichols is also here Oh, I'm Chris Nichol And you know what, we have had a fair amount of news happening while we were on the road, which we always like to talk about on the Petedapixel podcast But as well, we wantna touch on If you're buying a new camera, There's all kinds of things that are going to show up if you're on a website on the some customers also purchased or if you're in a camera store, the salesperson's like, what do you mean you're going to leave here without buying blank? So we are going to take a look at all of the different accessories that will be foisted upon you should you purchase a new camera and tell you which ones you need and which ones are disposable Cers. We're doing a tiered list. We're finally doing popular now. Kids love teers. Go doing the kids. Yeah. So h roity Jordan Chris and I came up with this list while sitting in the back of an alfard Alfard van. Yeah my favoritite Alfard. Yeah on the way back into Tokyo. So yeah, by the way, Love the alfard. I want an alfard. Those things are dope They're hot, man. Front grills awesome. Toya Alfaldo If you do a pedapixel production wagon, that's definitely in the running. It's either that or the the Nikon Was it a land Rover? a land land cruiser. the Nickon land crruiser. I want the land crruiser. Those are our two top candidates right now. Don't you just put that into a junkyard Niicon. I want it Canon could make a fully red alfart. That would be that would be awesome. Oh' be on the side, dude. Yeah. Yeah some re tram on the on the seats on the inside. Yeah, that would be good. That And then they could fight it out. They could race Um I'm sure you have a question, Jordan, but before you ask it, can I first bring up something we posted on Instagram the day of recording today Instagram is on fire, Jaron. It's a it's a people are burning it down. Excellent rage bait Chris decided he needed to do. The thing is I don't think he did it with the intention of rage baiting. Yeah. I don't get this concept of rage bait. You know, I'm not doing it to get likes or anything like that. I legit hate camera straps and I wanted this and I bought it. So yeah, we were in wereere we a map camera for that? wasas that wherever we were? I think that was Yodobashi. Was it Yodobashi? partarticular one, yes, in Shinjaku. We happened to go in there. We were just wandering around I had just spent too much money on Provia one hundred twenty. Pro was sitting in my pocket, and Chris was like, Let's look at iPhone cases. and we were looking at iPhone cases, none of which he liked And then he got distracted by the straps And he's like four smartphones.artphes camera straps. Yeah, smartphones straps. And he found the chintciiest looking one he could. single strand of thread, I believe. And the packaging was all in Japanese and we didn't bother translating it. We could have. And it says warning do not use with camera. It just the only thing we can see was ten KG, which he's assuming means how much weight it can hold. Yeah, I can't read Japanese. I don't know, but ten KG seems pretty obvious that's this thing does not weigh ten kilograms. Okaykay. So I'm assuming I'm assuming that that means that the ct is capable of holding five knchs worth of camera madness securely. and it hasn't broken Net No Do you like it, Chris? Yeah, I mean, so I switch this out like I first off have this tendency to, well here, I'll show you my light. you know, like these little straps come with everything, right? Like point and shoot cameras and all this kind of stuff, right? I have a habit of changing out camera straps for this and I'm sure we'll talk about that later in accessories because I hate having camera straps, even wrist straps I love, but I don't want them around my wrist and I certainly don't want them to be bulky sticking off the top of the camera So I'm always looking for something more minimal. And yeah, this thing this is sweet. Dude, look hundred. I think there's no way to go from here if you're looking for minimal. like that is as far That's you can go. I don't want to feel like I've got anything on my hand. Obviously I recognize the need for some sort of you know, secure something so that if you drop it, o, you know, it doesn't fall in the ground because I've done that many times if you could imagine. You're really testing the what's it called? the grip for that M eleven, the u Oh ye gotten a ding on it. I did see a comment that was like, what is the strength of that eyehole? And it's not the one actually for the camera, right? It's actually on the helium grip for helelium Yeah yeah, this is this is Hugh Brownstone's helelium grip. and yeah, it's a solid lug. I'm not worried about the lug at all. I wouldn't be worried about like lug either. Yeah, La lugs are super strong. I wouldn't worry about that. Yeah. I mean, if anything's going to break this chord is going to break first. But it would take ten kilograms of force. I trust the Japanese and their technical abilities. So you know that did not come out of Japan L I trust I trust the Chinese and their ability to manufacture before we get. So, you know, it's four hundred yen, bro That's like that's like four Canadian dollars. That's like six US listening. He legitimately did this. It's still on the camera he used it. He was walking around with this thing Yeah, it wasn't a joke. I you, Jaron knows I use this for like a week. This was my Yeahah. and yeah, it's still on there. you're still using it Yeah. yeah, yeah. whyy would I change it anyways? Look I'm passing it to you. I just wanted that j up that was not intentionally rage bait But that is the first thing that Sarah told me when I shared that with her to like put on our Instagram So Yeahah, I mean, sometimes it's not deliberately rage bait. sometometimes you just have strong opinions that make people mad. Th' going to be people angry all the time' all Yeah. All right, Jordan, what do you guys? I to keep it brief because we've already discussed the strap, but I want to know We've been on the road quite a bit. We're all back together in our respective recording spaces And I want to know in the room that you're in right now What was it that made you most delighted to be back home What is the thing that's like, Oh, it's here. Finally. I'm like I'm in my element. I'm totally Ready to rock it. This place is a mess. I came back and I'm like, A this. I gota do something about it And then I just put everything in and piles on the ground that. Yeah. piles on the ground. Yes. Piles on the ground. piles on the ground. You know, your space, Jerey, is like a functional space. like you can't just leave stuff everywhere, right U I've seen Jordan's stududio. It might even be worse than mine. But yeah, no. Something here that I was like, oh, I'm so glad to be back I mean, like a microphone that's not sitting on a Jury rigged boist. you tell what you what are you most grateful for Yeah J. Let me tell you. So while we were on the road there, I was doing a little bit of editing. We had a couple episodes come out while we were out. and I got to do my least favorite thing, which is late night editing on a laptop screen whichich makes me wonder like, why did I choose this life? What is wrong with me? And now I am back And I have a big old second monitor that's really nice. My neck is just stretched out, liberated. I'm on a comfy chair with a support cushion behind it. So back problems are a thing of the past. and I'm editing nine to five again. So those are the big things that I'm excited to have back. You heard it, life. He wants to be editing eight hours a day. That en joy. you all heard it. Soilly was about hours better for me I've heard what you want, Jordan, I can provide more work Do you seriously think that eight hours a day would be a reduction or an increase? GFC. All We're gonna talk about work. I missed this when I'm editing. This is my MX keypad from Lg yeah Oh I thought that was a fidget thing like an eighty eight fidget Popper it The ability to quickly do copy and then paste attributes. copy paste attributes as two buttons as opposed to the crap you have to go through with preremiere withith the right clicking and the rewrite it's so so annoying And then I can use my tools more quickly too because I don't like keyboard shortcuts but I do like this. if we're going to talk work. but really what I missed was my PlayStation controller, which is over here and I definitely used that I missed nothing. I missed nothing Yeah, I mean, I kind of like traveling, so it wasn't a big deal. Yeah. I Cool Chris would rather be back on the road. that. I don't know. Yeah. You wantanna be back on the road, Chris? Perfect. I've got the solution for you. Yeah. right, abbsolutely. All right, a low energy intro. Let's go I really missed actually guys, was thanking our sponsors on the podcast. and today's episode is brought to you by DXOo We've talked about DXO quite a bit. We even call them our friends. I'd like to think we're friends. And we appreciate them sponsoring today's podcast. They just released Nick Collection nine. This is the latest version of their popular editing suite. peopleeople been using it for like a decade. I mean, Nick's been around forever. so it's not just like a flash in the you know that they're here to stay. They've got great stuff like silver effects, black and white filters, color effects for creative grading, but they've had a huge update recently. So AI powered masking has now arrived in the Nick plugins. And again, this is where we like AI, AI that makes our life easier, not that steals our creative potential away and cost people jobs. Instead of painting sections by hand, you now point at a subject, drawbox around it, and the AI builds the mask. There's also a really cool AI depth mask that will detect distance from the camera so you can apply effects just to the foreground or just to the background runs on your machine locally. There's no like cloud stuff. your photos aren't going anywhere. because again, we hate that On the creative side as well, Nick Collection nine has added a new filter, including Halation. So this gives you that sort of soft highlight glow like film cameras sometimes do this, certain Lica lenses will do this. I feel halation for Halation. alation for Halation. thank you Jordan. You know, Rico have this with their HDF models. It's a fun tool and it's not something you necessarily want permanently built into your cameras. I like the option to be able to take a photo and try out that soft effect and see if you like it. If you've got friends who are like, Hey, we want you to shoot our wedding, but we want it to be like it's nineteen seventy nine Palation filter, you need this, okay There's also a three zone color grading tool, Chromatic Shift filter for that retro printing press look, glass effect filter with over fifty textures. You can do like eighteen blending modes. you can kind of mix them together, change opacity The basic thing is this, when you buy Nick software, they're constantly updating it. You're going to be like always on the cutting edge getting new technologies. So it's not stagnant. It's always changing, always getting better. If you want a full breakdown, actually Michael Bonnicor, who's our producer for Trail Camera and is you integral to the show, he is writing or he already wrote, sorry, a deep dive on his software. I really do think you guys check it out because it's not like a sales pitch. It's actually straight up like a really in depth tutorial on how to use the software. So if you're interested in doing this, DXO is offering Pedapixel podcast listeners fifteen percent off any DXO software, not just net collection nine, use the code pedapixel at check out at dXO dot com And then watch or sorry read Michael's article, then you can like actually see how to use this and get the most out of it. Cck it out. Thankk you again to DXO for sponsoring today's podcast Alrighty, thanks, DXO. Let's get to the news. First thing, I just wanna say congratulations to Chris Nichols Oh, thank you for the successful sell out in less than a day of the Wotencraft Pilot Cab. We couldn't even talk about it on the podcast Beause it was gone, it so Yeah. I did not expect that. You know, I mean you're making a bag design like this. and I do think it really is one of the best camera bags ever. I mean, the pilot series in general and not toot my own horn, but the way that I've designed this one, I think it's fantastic. I love it. I use it every day. But you never know, right? Like how is it going to be received? willill people like it? We built up a little bit of hype on it know, Wotencraft sent out some bags to some people that they trust, some influencers and creators they trust, and so did we. None of them even had time to do their reviews on the bag because so the friend. I texted David Mel over the weekend. and he's like, oh, shoot, I need to do that wotencraft thing. And I'm like, no, you don't No do going to drill the bag Okay you go you know, talk about it for sure. I would still appreciate that, but it's not necessary to sell the product because like so I'm really grateful because everybody just like jumped on board. I did not expect that. I hope you all enjoy it. and I'm sorry for the people that missed it. I know that Onecraft kind of likek to make limited runs and keep them limited and so that's cool It keeps it exclusive, but I'm like, o, can we like do another runs so the more people can get it. But we'll see maybe next year, maybe a new version later on, who knows, we shall see. But thank you. B thank you It's funny, I was really pushing like you have a new bag. We should do a petapixel episode out of it. Thank God we didn't because it would be coming out after all the bags were sold out and unavailable. So yeah, good good work, you two talking me out of it. Yeah, I was thinking from the get go. So when we originally met with w wouldn' craft on this. They're like, we're going do a limited launch. I'm like, cool I how many could that be? a couple thousand? When they said three hundred, I'm like, Oh That seems low, but okay Yeahah, turns out it was low. I'm hoping that they can do more because I also really like the bag that's over here And yeah, I used it for the first time on an extended trip here the last couple weeks in Toyo. And you liked it. And Jer the kind of person to mask his opinions for the sake of other people's feelings. Uh Yeah, no, he really liked it. Yeah, and I not typically a sling bag guy, a backpack guy, but I changed over to the Christnical stratey, which is the sling bag and a roller like for the airport. Perfect. And let me tell you That's the Jordanrakes strateg. I got to give Jordan credit. That got the Jordan Drake strategy. I was a backpacker for a while. and although I could beat him going up any stairs in an airport, one hundred percent, it really hurt my back after a while. And he always carry the roller and I was like, damn I'm gonna to switch over and I did. So thank you, Jordan for your old man knowledge. I got so much roller experience on our last trip too Dragon. five bags around a train station. F experience, but I'm now nimble. I'm very good at it now. Also, you do you travel once You got trapped in the GR gate one or two times though, didn't you, I think? It's really hard if you have your hand on two bags to scan your phone to get through the thing because then you gott to scan it. And it's like, do I put the phone down or do I grab the bag with the phone? What if that breaks the screen of the phone? No, it's got to go in the pocket And the person behind the thing is like, what's going on over here? What's this guy trying to pull? And it's like, no, I'm just trying to get through. I swear to God It sounds nimble. Okay any you U All right. well We'll let you guys know if more Woton craft shows up as an option, but for now that it is over Thanks for those who supported it. And we're going to move on and talk about Just the most heartwarming story you could possibly imagine. Oh, this is what I was just talking about. This is the AI we hate. Yeah. So this happened actually back in April, but it didn't land on anyone's radar until this weekend. So a gallery in New York St created an AI generated version of an Anzsel Adams photo So the photo is called Moonrise overver Hernandez. It's a relatively well known image of his. I wouldn't say it's his most well known. hisis most well known stuff is like Yosemite, but you know, it's in the why they tried for sure.'s probably why they tried to do it. Yeah.Quite well known. It is in the public domain That'll be important in a minute But they just did this for giggles, right? They weren't actually trying to like sell it off as a piece of art that would take money to acquire. cororrect, Jaon? Like this just for fun No, no, this was for money. What? This was for money. Yeah. they AI generated it and it's colorized is what they think the thing is. So this it's not a good rendition of this image, I want to point out just is objectively worse than the original But They did actually sell these and the Anzill Adams ofestate became aware of it and they put out a statement on Instagram The trust was not consulted or notified before the work appeared. Once alerted, we reached out to James Danziger. Now this is the Danzigger's gallery for those who need some context in real time, notifying him of the trust's rights and asking for the work to be removed. cororrespondence shared with the trust shows that despite our formal notice, Mr. Danziger subsequently leveraged Anl's name Moonrise and the APad presentation while pursuing a proposed commercial AI colorization venture involving other artists' estates Um They said that this is a gross failure of ethical and professional judgment. Before I give you their follow up Because there is a statement from Danziger that came out yesterday. So it's been then yesterday as of we're recording this. So any thoughts on this so far either of you. Like if this is all you knew that happened, because when we published this story there had been no statement U I mean, I don't Well how do I want to say it you know, obviously, the realm of art is a very dynamic realm. And U People have been creating based on you know other people's designs for a long time now. And I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that. again. to keep in context. I mean, based on, right? Whether it's inspired by or or you're mimicking a style or whatever. I mean, that's commonplace now you could be cynical and say that there is no original artwork anymore because everything is just a derivation of something else, right? But But if you said that, it would make me mad, so I'm glad you didn't. Yeah. Yeah. U, but at the same, you know, yeah, and so U And of course, we have laws in place and we have rights infringements in place and copyright laws in place to protect people from this. we have for a long time. And this stuff has been debated back and forth, right? And how close is too close? And at what point are you infringing on someone else's creative designer rights? As you say, this photo was in the public domain. in the public domain That doesn't necessarily mean you can modify and sell it for money though, right? I mean, again, I'm a copyright lawyer. but There are lots of rules and lots stuff. Tnically they didn't modify it Tically they toldI to create a new version of it. That that's the thing they But still that's okay. so here's the thing. We'll go Well still saying in the title of the piece, like this is a version of Ansel Adams Moonride. Like that's your thing. They used his name name based on the existing artwork, which this is not. Correct. It is described as AI generated from the prompt, makeake a realistic color version of Anselil Adams iconic mooonrise over Hernandez. proofed, regenerated and photoshopped lowercase P from printed by master printer Esteon Mauchci addditions of ten and three sizes Yeah by the way, you know these anything that happens in the Danziger Gallery, I've looked at past sales, stuff is typically never listed for less than ten thousand dollars. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure this made tons of money, right And I always wonder like who wants to even buy this stuff? I mean, like AI for sure is By its nature, what we call AI right now, by its nature, is based on other people's work, right? A myriad of other people's work, technology. That's all it is. It's the ultimate form of derivation, right? It's not like artificial intelligence has ability to spontaneously create new stuff. I mean, everything is based off what it's learned. And you could argue humans are the same way, who knows? But As an artist in the art realm, I'm always open for people being able to interpret other people's work and being able to create and mimic and parody and satire. I mean, these are all important things. I'm not like one hundred percent against mimicking someone else's work, again, in context, okay, being inspired by it or using it in some way for your own work or adding something to it Yeah, this just, I mean, if anything, it's incredibly low hanging fruit. I don't know why anybody would support it or condone it. L it's just, it's just sad. It said I what Yeah, so there was a follow up U, the gallery owner. issued a public press release Uh and said Basically in short, I had every right to do this, so I did It's like All right. Okay, he says, I had long believed the image was in the public domain, but to confirm this beyond doubt, I hired one of the most respected copyright lawyers in the country to ensure this was the case By the way, the word insure was the wrong insure use the IN sure, not the ENure Look, It's an artist, not an editor in chief chair. you're holding this person to a high standard, they cannot. I mean, actually Jaron may maybe subconsciously he was more concerned about insurance claims than he was ensuring something to be accurate. Grammarly is free It was indeed v. It was indeed confirmed to be in the public domain and I was free to create a transformative color rendition to the image and exhibit and sell the resulting prints. You know what? true Well, again, I mean, look, you can't judge people on what they want to do as far as artistic creation goes. What you can do is judge them on like Is there even good art in the first place? Yeah, Is this the right thing to do? Is this is this a proper thing to do? And hopefully, you know, you would you would expect that people would then show their opinion by failing to support this. but I guess it sounds like he's selling some of this work. and you know, it's like that brings him another thing and this is different and this is different I don't want to I don't want to crop on this. It's like In the art world, we always have to be accepting of new trends and new ideas. Absolutely. You can't just be like, oh, in my day, blah, blah, blah, as much as you want to shout at the sky, that's not always the right approach, right? We saw this with digital. I mean, people said the same thing about digital photography when it came out, Oh, this is ruining the art form. this is a toy, this is garbage. And that's clearly not the case. So you know, AI artwork is going to start really happening now. That's why we're discussing this. These are important things to talk about AI based artwork. I mean, is it Is it valid R As artwork. Is it valid as artwork? I mean, I don't like the concept. I don't think putting in a prompt and then having somebody else creates it is valid personally. But that doesn't mean it's not in the eye of the public art community And I think that Yeah, I think so. I think the thing here is it's going to be up to like nobody who listens to this podcast is going to go buy an AI prompted version of Ansel Adams work But I think it's also important like, look, this gallery is now on record as supporting this kind of thing. If you are a photographer who potentially could have their stuff shown in a gallery Don't exhibit it in galleries. If you feel very strongly like that this is morally reprehensible as I do, then I wouldn't put my work up there. And I think we can really kind of make a clear distinction between the galleries who are like, oh, this is acceptable art and the clients who are interested in that and other people, I think that's kind of the only way going forward because we're going to see more and more of this and it's going to keep moving even though it sucks But One other thing thing think is worth pointing out it's hilarious. I don't want to spoil a future episode coming up But we are directly in communication with people whose livelihood depends on an I'm s U so yeah, this is u crazy from that perspective as well, for us personally Basically all it did th was take this black and white photo and turn it color. And that's what the AI did. Yeah, the went took it Like it's the same composition and everything. likeike yeah, not it's not good in my opinion. I'd be pissed. Yeah. I think's I think it's sad and I think it's low hanging fruit and I don't agree with it, But I guess what I'm trying to get across is If you as a person go in and use an AI prompt to make a piece of artwork and then you sell that artwork. If people want to buy it, I think that's fair game. Do doesnes't mean I like it and I really don't think it takes much skill on the part of the person doing it, which is really sad. But then I feel like, yes, it's valid, but then people just shouldn't buy it because they don't respect it. And therefore that person should stop doing it. If we start buying this stuff, we start buying into this stuff, then that's a really yucky slope. Like why would anybody want to have this I don't understand why anybody would want to take an image that's a known image with the exact same composition, turn it color and buy that knowing that like AI just did that basically for him. I don't know.'s why would you want to own that? Whatere's the significance in that There's no street cred there, man. There's no street cred. Also discussed in the We go to Alfard Jordan and I talked about Canons segmentation And it was actually partially in Be I knew this story was being written and I was curious what Jordan's thoughts were on it out Jeremy wrote a story over the weekend where he says he fundamentally disagrees with Canon building a wall between its V and C series cameras And I wanted to get your thoughts on this, Jordan. What do you think about this. and it's kind of linked directly to the whole R six series now since that camera is now three cameras that are very similar to each other with minor differences that are somewhat annoying. Yeah, initially when I saw the announcement and everything like that, I was saying you were all there. I was like, this is way too much overlap. This is going to be so confusing. And then I realized this is not a new and innovative thing Canon is doing. This is exactly Sony's structure. with the ZVE one, the A seven S three and the FX three, which are all the same chip in three slightly different bodies with Basically, it breaks down almost exactly the same way is what Cannon is doing here, except that the FX three has stabilization U So To a degree, I don't know if we can just throw all the blame at Cannon for this, but it is very frustrating if you're looking to grab one of these as a hybrid tool, there's always compromise on every model which is definitely going to be frustrating for a lot of people.. So I think it's just our job You know, when we're looking at these less to actually review the cameras individually, like the back half of our entire R six V video was just, look, here's how it breaks down compared to the other ones. You have to choose what's right for you. But yeah, it's going to be frustrating. If people are like, oh, I want the vloggy camera and it turns out they also really wanted to shoot stills with it, things like that and find out there's real compromises there We just kind of have to give people the heads up that it's going on. But yeah, it's not unique to Canon at this point Do you seem to indicate that you believed, I don't know if this was something you were told. Or if you just believe this, that canon I blindly believe everything I'm told, Jaron, whichich makes me a terrible journalist. It Uh So I don'm curious you told you this then U the difference between like the still camera operating system and the Cinna camera operating system and how there are features you think that are locked to one or the other. And so if you don't use that operating system, you don't get those features. Yeah, I mean, that's just my suspicion based on, some of the stuff not carrying over. L for the longest time, waveform was kept completely separate onto the Pro interface. And I bet they had to rebuild that from scratch when they finally brought it into the consumer cameras, like the R five two and things like that. But I think it's completely separate R and D going on on both of those, which is why we see like a very consumer friendly function likeike hybrid vertical and horizontal recording just on the pro camera. because I think they were like, is it worth the R and D for us to rebuild this effectively in a whole new interface on the consumer cameras? And they might have decided that's not worth it or it was going to take too much time because they've launched all these cameras kind of boom, boom, boom, very rapidly. ra There's not going to be a lot of time to really fines them. It's like, what's in the parts bin? which different cases can we get it in? So No, I think it's confusing for consumers. That's our job to help with that Um But yeah, to single canon out for this when I think they're just like years behind trying to catch up with what Sony did with the FX three. And I think that's also what Nikon's doing to a degree with the ZedR. L I think everyone is chasing that compact productduction ready camera right now Yeah. No Makes sense. I agree with Jeremy though. I don't love the segmentation U it feels unnecessary If it is true that their two software development groups are that siloed That feels also weird to me. like the resources could be better spent. Yeah, but remember Canon, we did have a conversation with them and they well I mean, they have talked about how their teams have been siloed to some degree and theyre trying to integrate that better. But I mean, you know, like everybody has done market segmentation, but Cannon has in particular and not not out of no fault of their own has really been at the forefront of taking the brunt of those criticisms, right? I mean, people have been saying things about their products for now a long time. We've talked about product segmentation being quite heavy in the Canon universe for many, many years. So although everybody does it to some degree, Canon has always been particularly egregious with violating that, you know I get how it's annoying for consumers. abbsolutely. And at the same time, they sell. They sell really well. So Maybe maybe they understand that a lot of consumers like being segmented or like feeling like, oh, I'm the kind of person for this camera as opposed to having the versatility available. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe people find that comforting. I don't know. I don't know I get it In an industry that can be quite intimidating, maybe it's nice to just have those bumpers on the bowling lane of life. I don't know I think it's worth pointing out that Sony and Canon both have pro divisions where Panasonic effectively doesn't anymore. And Nikon doesn't unless you include red cameras, which is totally similar. And I think that's why we're seeing a lot more of like, look, this is a hybrid model that has the kitchen sink thrown at it. because there' T does. I feel like their teams are pretty tw. We actually you can hear it in the UuG interview, which we posted last week where I was asking about any kind of segmentation in the lens design. And he specifically said like, no, our teams are directly integrated Now the Eterna does have a different interface than their consumer cameras, which s given for that. You know, like the six thousand dollars price difference from even the highest and stills camera, that does make sense It is maybe this conversation another time, but it is interesting just to see the difference in corporate strategy corporate hierarchy, structure, everything, how all the different companies in Japan that the camera related companies in Japan, oper their businesses differently and how they operate their teams differently and stuff and how they change. I mean, now we see some changing and modifying and evolving. And so yeah, it's pretty cool to see that, but that's for another conversation All right. this is a P'st quick kit Seven Artisans has a Z mount lens that is now the most affordable one hundred and thirty five millimeter F one point eight prime. One of my favorite focal lengths. This is great news. The sample images Pretty good. Yeah. U I guess ye Yeah I mean, I like the bouquet. don't I don't hate it ' not with the flowers looks a little overdone. He wait with the what does? like well, I mean they're all dog shots. There's like I don't know scroll down there' some other people out there too. Yeah they look Heavily make up. Heavily heavily makeu and modified. but hey, you know, cool Cool Uob It's eight hundred and ninety nine dollars. Wow designed to compete directly against the Viltrox Lab one hundred and thirty five. Yeah. And the Pana, which is whole twenty two hundred dollars right now, whichich actually sorry, wait thatens. So sorry, I think the Viltrox lab AF one hundred thirty five, that's eight. eight nine. This is six hundred eight nine.'s cheaper. six eighty nine. two hundred bucks cheap. That's wild U Yeah, it's interesting to see like especially like seeven artis well, I mean we have just recently played with the Thypk Voyager, twenty four to fifty. And ThipC is basically famous for making manual focus M mount lenses. seven artisans, you could argue a similar thing. I mean, you know, all these companies start out making very affordable, manual focus Eespecially seven artisans started out They started out with like very basic optics. So it's interesting to see all these companies now getting into more mainstream autofcusing lenses Yeah And I would argue airc's modern lens design And it's still going to be big. like this is what I keep saying like stop giving me one point eight and one point fours. I mean, as sweet as that sigma is, it's enormous. I really want to compact one thirty five. And the last really good one was the Zeiss Baddis from like ten years ago, the one hundred thirty five F two eight. Let's let's get something a little more modern in their gang a week I feel. I feel like, I mean eighty two mil frront filters. I'm not yeah, I feel like other one hundred thirty five one eight s are smaller than that The vill is pretty big. The Sony is fairly compact, but Clen is kind That's kind of big isn't it? P is big. ye. Yeah how you get rid of that cat' ee You gota have a big, old friend element I about that thing at cover medium format big. Uh All right, next thing Sony A sevven five actually got a firmware update. Sony two firmware update. Holy hell. This is Jordan's update, though, yeah Yeah. I mean, the most exciting thing about this is they brought out a firmware update and within twelve hours didn't have a retraction notice saying, please, please, please don't install this firmware. It's a new firmware that works coming soon Don't do it. So that's very exciting for. Progress. Yes, massive progress. U And it makes a lot of sense as well. So basically they've got a new XLR handle out there, which was launched alongside the A seven R six. Now you will have support with the A seven five for that, which as I said in our video, I think is still a better overall hybrid camera for video shooters So having that ability to not only strap on an XLR handle, but also get less compression on the audio is great So that's really nice to see as well. We've got a few more manual settings for your lenses on there. and of course new FTP support, which is always a big deal for people who are uploading their videos directly for broadcast and things like that, but nothing that we would generally touch on and not a big deal for our audience. But we also see now some support and I love that Sony's putting this in consumer cameras for video authenticity as well some revisions on that. And still Sony is the one company that's like, we want to make sure your video is authentic. So good on, Yes Sony and I'm glad this firmware seems to be working. This is Massive stride forward I did actually like this camera. I wish it had waveform, but other than that, I did actually like this camera. for making videos. Yeah, very nesam. Great. I've said, I think it's probably the most well rounded four K hybrid camera on the market It is It is lacking some features, some glaring ones, I think, but If you can ignore those, it's I hate metering with histogram, man. I hate hram. I've been saying this for ten years. It sucks. Histogram's terrible. If I'm shooting log now with Jordan, I just meter by getting it to the point where it looks awful And then in my cor good. Yeah yeah Make it look really bad. Make it look like Sony's AI enhanced Experia imag. and you're gonna have a beautiful log result at the end of gr. This is clearly overexposed by a stop and a third. Good. done. Okay. Perfect. Rlling. No highlights clipping? Great. Aesome. action. So last story of the week, Chris, has ever weird, Have you heard of this camera So many people so rare, even I've never heard of it So Did you guys think that Foveon existed in any other system No idea. No other than sigma, I thought Sigma was the only company crazy enough to do that They were not Introducing Polaroid They apparently did And this thing is Wow very normal looking, to be honest with you, which is weird, because I'm used to that for a phvia on camera But yeah, apparently nearly twenty years ago, there was one a limited edition Polaroid X five hundred thirty that had a foveon sensor in it Now because it's Polaroid branded, who knows who actually makes it R back then. No, I think Polarar was still at that point just a name that was abused and tossed around and passed around. It was just awful Um But yeah, that's it's so weird. The battery life must have sucked on Do use double As likeike do you get three shots and then you have to throw at the double As or something? What the heck Ja, I want to review this camera. Can you make that happen? No the rarest Snappiness is the only one who I think we would be able to even borrow one from. So you'd have to collab with him, but you know, maybe. What makes it rare They There's not there any of them. Yeah, they they they didn't actually make many They start That's like I'm not in Moron, obviously what makes it rare? like is it rare because like ten million were made, but nobody bought them and like or is it like rare? like I there were a thousand made. L recall Jeremy telling me that There were very few made. Let me see if he can answer that question really. mean they estimate Thousands at least in a production I'm going to say four hundred produced. That's my That's mine. Gas there. Yeah We over like people just threw them in the garbage and that's why they never got into the used market. Like everybody's like, o this isah like out of spite they destroyed them I love that this thing still has like the original stickers on there too. Those really heinous ugly stickers, like a pink, a blue, a yellow and a green all on the same sticker. That that was that's cool, man. that the kids do that on their hats. They leave them on there, right? That's what we did back in the day. That was our cool factor. leeave the stickers on. In fact, I'm going to start making Chris Nichols Edition stickers that you can put on your camera To relive the nineties and nely two thousands. But only three hundred of them Yes, only three hundred of them and they will use Fauonent. I seriously doubt you're going to do that because you specifically didn't want your name on your bag in a way that was like sewn on there so people wouldn't That's why it' sold out so well because I think a lot of people agreed. you know, you buy a signature bag, you don't necessarily want someone's actual signature all over the bag, you know, like Aness put a Banciaga on the letter would sure that wouldn't have resulted in a lawsuit. Jeremy has come through. He says the distributor never specifically said as usual, but estimates by people online range from thirty five to forty total units.ly hell. That's There's no reason to make that to just fewer than fifty. some guy on Reddit said thirty five to thirty nine quote officially. So make that what you will, but I found nothing to dispute the claim Were they eight thousand dollars each? What the hell? four hundred bucks Oh my God. So that's like just brought them to trade shows and everybody said like now pass and they were like actually, let's not mass produce. Let's not do that. anyway wow All right. Okay, well, yeah, I don't want to test it Iually I kind of do. Yeah, you do. I doew it. I soew it. Stupid. It Okay, stupid. Let's get to the main story. This was Jordan's idea. Jordan loves games. Love games.. So I'm gonna share my screen. Let's see this window. We have a tier list here Ready to go We're going to rank these things. So Jordan, give a better explanation of what this is. This came about because you guys worked in a camera store, basically and you were told to sell stop. Yeah, we were talking about UV filters specifically., which is like one very classic add on things. So we were just saying like, yeah, it's very recommended in camera stores when you're buying Lenses because it's a high margin item, basasically. So the camera stores make a little more profit on that a lot of times than they will with the multi hundred dollars thousand dollars lens U So that got me thinking of all the things that everyone's like, Look, if you're buying a new camera, you got to get this What are the ones that you might actually need and want and which are the ones that you can comfortably walk away from I mean, I'm tempted to start with the UV filter. Yeah. Okay. So we've got this we were going to do them like ranked and I was like, that's dumb. We're going to do a tier list. We're going we're going to do with the cool kids do so If you're watching us on YouTube, you will see we have a teears of S A BC D. I guess we could do F Now I'm good to I didn't do anS on here. I don't even know if I can add that yet. Iough Is everything should go in F. There's an S. no F. Yeah F. Yeah, I need an F one. I don't know how to do that. I've never used this list beforeak. There's not going to be that many Fs, so maybe we can give them dishonorable mention at the time that this list is completed. It'll be D minus o. Yeah, I mean, I guess I can add a row below Oh, o o Oh. This one's new. Oh new. You're doing it You're doing What can you change What color needs what color should it be? orark dark purple purple. Yeah I don't think I're gonna be able to see the black. on. it's all cable. Purple. There here we go. Hey, look at that Not worthless me figured it out. Good job, goodood job Okay, so we'll start with the UV filter And I will say the reason we brought this up and why I'm so against them. I was bambooled recently into buying a UV filter. And it was not really it was more like I was made to feel really bad about myself if I didn't buy one. So I feel like that's the same strategy you two would have used. No no one to me L if you love if you really love your camera, if you really love this lens you bought, you're going to want to protect that front element. I believe that's what Jordan was saying he would say Or that he was instructed to say, doeses that sound right? Yeah, I mean, that is the classic camera store talk on that is yeah, you got to protect that super expensive front element.. I'm going to let the internet in on a little secret there. If you put a hood on, that is actually a really effective way to disagree that won't disagree age quality Dagree, disagree. So are you a proponent of the UV filter, Chris You know what? L when I was selling cameras and pushing these things, the speech I gave. So first off to give context, Jaron said he was guilted into doing it. That was guilt that he felt so bad strong a salesperson And he supports Blue Moon so much. He's like, you know what? throw it in there, bud Not with the intention of using it, but because he was basically I took that bad boy off immediately This guy might as well have worked for UNIF. Okaykay? So When I sold UV filters, okay, it always came down to a speech about this. likeike I would say, look, it depends on how clumsy you are. It depends on how willing you are to take care of your stuff. And I would give anecdotal I would give anecdotal for me. I mean, a hood can certainly protect physically the front element. but I will say, I have lots of scratches on a lot of the front of my lenses And it's largely Yeah, it happens. Ask Emily, she'll agree It largely happens because I hate putting caps back on lenses before putting them away. Especially if I'm shoting on the street and I need to react quickly. I don't have time to put my stuff away nicely. I don't like to baby gear at the best of times. So I chuck that stuff in my camera bag and sometimes yeah, it'll land on something, a piece of metal or another lens or who knows what? as well, like we've shot in a lot of really rough environments. You know, and people will clean their lenses They'll blow off dust in a rush because they're trying to get a shot. you know what I mean? And yeah, you can be rubbing grains of sand into the fronti your elements. Dust absolutely has an abrasive effect. even if it doesn't look like it or it's very small, it has an abrasive effect U And so yeah, like a UV filter does make a lot of sense in that way. And I would tell people like look There's no one on the planet that is going to look at your photo and say, ah, beautiful shot. It would have been great except you obviously used a UV filter. No, that doesn't happen. Nobody can tell. okay? So they don't degrade your image quality in any appreciable way. They will provide a cheap layer of glass in the front to protect the element from I've seen that a lot. People drop the lens, UV filter smashes, that's not your front element. aggressive cleaning, just getting strange stuff on the front. I mean, we were shooting a twenty four to seventy shoot out way back in the day, DSLR twenty four to seventy shoot out. and we had this really cool thing set up where we went we shot at this guy's forge and he's hammering iron with with a hot forge, hammering stuff sparks flying off. I got right in there with a Pentax twenty four to seventy. Was it twenty four to seventy? Maybe twenty eight to seventy and got right in there and shot and hot steel hit the front of the element and actually chipped the front And had I had a UV filter, that obviously wouldn't have been the case. I blame our old Pentaxrat Bill Gouge who would show the coatings on the Pentax by putting cigarettes out on the front of the lens And I'm like, well, surely it could take a spark. Anyways it damaged it. And that's a great example of where I knew I was doing something where I was getting the lens into a pretty hairy situation. and if I had a UV filter would have protected it. So I really don't think they're that bad. I'm gonna to say UV filter is definitely a beer be tier notot beer tier That would be awesome. Be tier. Yeah, I'm winning D tier Jordan, suck. I also am. I think Chris's use case there is extremely niche where someone is pounding hot metetal right beside the lens. The only time I've ever wanted a UV filter is if Michael Bonicor is in front of me in an ATV spraying gravel at the front of my lens element wrecking end an entire lens I was also driving. so was driving. bllame us both. It's not entirely his fault. I got your back Boncorore I'm a deier That fine dust in particulate like damaged our Olympus lens. L yeah, you gota like I'm just saying If you should extreme stuff, you should have a I'm going average it and go with a se tier a seat tier. You to spend fifteen minutes on every product. Well, that's a had a good story. He had a good story. All. Thank you. Thank you, Jern. Thankk you Actually, I think what really started your mind turning on this, Jordan was you saw in the wild A lens bag on someone's hip in Tokyo. Yeah, it was a top load zoom, low proro top load Zoom. Yeah I was commenting. I haven't seen that in ages. Yeah. So here we go. So on our list it says camera bag The image I went I went and found a lens bag U so I think this is more likely to be the one that you would be upsold on is that top l the one for that specific product, right? not like you're investing in a system So do you need A lens bag Do we mean lens bag or camera bag camera bag I think we're going to go Lens bag because that's the I don't think you get upsold on a whole bag all that often And I feel like yeah, you do actually need a camera bag. You should get usefulough, but the lens bag The lens bag is like a veryational bag for a lens. just the lens goes on your hip or in the case of the picture I got here, it's got like a little little strap on it What do whereere do you put that on the tears D tier. Yeah, a lot of the time it comes with the lens anyways if it's even a mid range lens. So I'm going to go I'm going to go F. You don't need also I would agree F as well. Its it's a terrible purchase. Okay There are some situations where would I would take one of these low pro lens bags, okay? pututting them in there to protect it within a camera bag is stupid. That's superfluous. But there were situations where I would sometimes want to travel light, you know go out on the street for a day and shoot, especially like manual focus days, and I would have a little lens pouch on my belt and it makes you look so stupid. It's preinently Unsexy, but It would give you this place to then change your lens, you know, take the lens off the body, swap them and keep shooting without having to carry around like a camera bag or having to have like a big pocket or something, which is never ideal. So anyways, I dont deter. I think they're useful, but in very limited situations. Great for cam quarters There you go. when I worked at the store. Yeah, you could slip a panasonic handy cam in there. No problem. And look, they would have back in the day they would have Velcro straps and stuff. You could put them on the outside of camera bags like LOPro is especially famous for this. So you could increase the storage of a smaller camera bag. That's not necessarily a useless feature. With a really heavy accoutrement. Yes. you could definitely do that. The bag empty is way too heavy. All of these LOPro bags are not Yeah, get started on low Pro. I mean, you know, they're they're they're now, u term I don't remember. I can't remember my brain's not working doesn Ne one strap. Now you get a strap with your camera when you purchase it and it's got the camera brand name on there and they're usually garbage They're going to sell you a strap And because you're Chris Nichols, I know you hateraps, Chris. This I so F tier all camera nextxt straps F ti What if this also includes like wrist straps? Like you're buying one. they're like, Oh, you don That's fair. got to get into a new system. Yeah Yeah. becausecause you don't w want to use that crummy camera strap that comes in the box Yeah That's tough for me. because obviously wrist straps will all be S tier and camera straps will all be F tier. So I don't know how you want me to rank that Well while you settle why why you think about it, Jordan, what do you think I think it is quite important like this is my preferred way, if I'm out shooting photos and things like that to support a camera is a wrist strap. A lot of people like neck straps. I think it's B tier What's wrong with the strap that comes with your camera other than that it's a next strap. It tends to be really thin. It's like if it is a next strap, it's uncomfortable generally. They never they can't unstrap from the camera easily. They're tough to remove quickly. They're tough to put on. Most people don't know to They're allc correctly. They're all veryext strap is useless. Yeah. I don't know. I like the lemur strap. You saw my lemur strap. That was pretty cool. No he hates it. All right. well, I'm fromom a design standpoint, yes, but I was still throwing in the trash. I agree with All straps, like wrist and neck An additional one that's not sold with it. I think why'd you say Jordan B? B? I was thinking B tier. Yeah because you se. I mean if it's a Pentax bus strap, then of course that's S tier. Yeahes. I will, I will ive in and say I hate the manufacturer straps because they advertise the manufacturer. I've always hated that.ike I don't know what did I know some people think it's cool. I really don't want to like have everybody see like, oh, that guy's carrying a cannon n right? because it's straight off. do You can see, I think it's I think it's cheesy, right? I agree. So yeah, you get to customize the strap, you get to change the color, you get to have a little bit of fun, It's jewelry for your camera. I totally get that That's fine. All next traps should be burned at the stake This one's great How about a lens cleaning kit A tier. Get out of here Really Oh it's a little sently. I'm looking at my bag right now. I try to strip everything down as minimal as possible when I'm out and about. I've got some lens spray and a wipe in that bag one hundred percent of the time. So it's where you're going to F tier this because usually they're prettytty trash But I you look fine. Lice Granded. The actual lens kit that you would sell. Yeah, it was it was more than you need, right? Like Yeah And and lens tissues should be for wiping bums. There's no reason to have like they're pain in the ass. but like micro lower huge pain in the ass.king lower takes too much space. That doesn't mean they're not useless, okay. But and again If you are rubbing d like if you've got a dusty lens and you're breathing on it and wiping it with a microfiber cloth, you're sanding your front element. And look, I'm not judging you because I do the same thing and therefore I've got scratches all over the front of my lenses okay? But it will damage your lens. So UV filter again. If you're going to clean your lenses, UV filters what's getting cleaned, it's a great purchase. You should do it. Can you guys agree on a tier spot for the lens cleaning kit? Okay, let's say this, you have to have stuff to clean your lens. A tier. Absolutely. You have to have it. T shirts, we all do it but it's not ideal. This actually shot lens A lens spray and a microfiber cloth. we typically carry in in other stuff And I would also throw in there a sensor cleaning stick like the Rico Pentax sensor That is Ver great. That's not honest, is it? Is is it not on? I thoughtonest. I would be happy to add it. I can always add it cleaning. No, I think we keep it here. So it's like, should you buy additional products to clean and maintain your camera? Yes. I agree. I think you should. Okay. sensor cleaning, lens cleaning. Yes. I I also always have sensor cleaning stuff in my bag. Yeah, you have never All right, next one. a batter one hundred percent S here. depend on the camer No LR cam You could probably get a like yeah, if back in the day when it was like M and Pa grabbing their camera to shoot their kids and they get a rebel. now, you're gonna to shoot like twelve hundred images on that. But nowadays, with mirrorless, yeah, you need an extra battery By the way, these image choices that I've gotten here, these are the first things that came up when I just typed in the words on B and H So Interestingly, Canon has a choke hold on top results. That's why they can segment their cameras and nobody cares. Num one market share Do you agree with STier on battery, Jordan? Yeah one hundred percent No, abbsolutely Ser. You can't agree with yourself, Chris All right, we've got two grips now. First we're gonna go with an alternate grip. This is not a battery grip. This is an alternate grip, and like the one you've got currently on your Lica there, Chris. It's an additional grip for your camera. Yes. likeike the one I have on my X one hundred That sort of thing smallmall g has really expanded this. It used to be incredibly rare that you'd see that now. I would say. Like maybe a third of the cameras we see out in the wild have the grip modified in some way where do where do you rank it I go beat here. It really is camera dependent. Some cameras really benefit from an additional grip, some do not I don't typically like an additional grip on certain cameras because I don't want to be bigger and bulkier at all. I I'm really a minimalist on that. But like on the M eleven An additional grip is great Whereas on the Panasonic L ten we're playing with, I didn't like it. I don't use it because I don't need it on there. So Conversely, I did like it on there. I sure nice. Yeah, it's very table. The thumb restst is also nice. It's not on this list, but thumb rest was nice. I would put that as the same kind of thing you're changing the ergonomics of your camera It really does depend on the camera. Yeah Most I was like be be teer. I'm right on right in league with this. agree beer. There we go. I would lean B to A because the cameras that I like tend to need those things. But like an A seven you are s cameras and A seven An A seven R six doesn't need it as much as like an XO five does No, no, exactly. Yeah. who's going put who's going to put a alternate grip on their on their mirrorless system camera. All right, well then The other one is a vertical grip for these nothing doesn't have strong feelings about this one. D tier garbage. hate them hates them. Stupid. Jordan. It's not stupid.'s just I hate them I mean, in terms of like, you need to have these, I think you need to use your camera for quite a while before you decide like, you know what? I'm using a lot of big telephotos, shooting vertical constantly. I could really use it. I don't think it's an initial purchase at all. It's like down the road, if you feel like you need it. I remember my first digital camera was a rebel That had a very tiny grip and because smallmall Rrig wasn't in business back then, I strapped one of these giant suckers on it, making it, yeah, completely unwieldy with a small camera just to make it fit my hands. We have a better solution for that now, which is accessory grips. so this is only if you absolutely need boatloads of battery life and you prefer to shoot with that vertical release. Yeah I would say like some people need it, but it's not something you should get at the time of purchase. So I'm going to say a D tier Yeah lean here. I was honestly leaning F Really here, but you know I' let's F. Why not?'s I'm saying F because I have a bias against this, which is unfounded. Okaykay? L No, I mean, look, there's legitimate benefits, extra battery life, obviously vertical shooting, heavier weight for balance. So this is really meant for Sports shooters, Olympic shooters, wildlife shooters to some degree, although I think most wildlife photographers don't want the extra weight if they're hiking out there. So you know, it's really meant for shooting on the sidelines all day long, having the vertical grip, which does help if you're like shooting on a monopod or shooting on a like Wimberly bracket or something like that on the side of a football pitch, then it can be very useful. J justust rotate the camera But for me personally, I hate the exercise. There are a pain in the ass in the camera bag. Batteries can be swapped out, so I don't really buy the battery life option in that regard. It's nice not to have to change, but most people have the time to stop and change. And on top of that, I don't like using a vertical grip. I still crane my hand over even if I have a vertical grip. That's always how I've done it. That's what I like to do, and I'm not going to change. So it depends on the person. Uh for me F tier, but I mean, I still think it's a D tier thing. like it's it's useful I just don't like the trade offffs. You'll find this interesting, maybe our friend Blair, Blair Bunting loves the square camera format. So he likes the original like the one D and the D series cameras from from Kanon and Nikon. But he despises these vertical grips on cameras that don't have them integrated. He says that they they aren't the same shape They don't do the same thing and he just hates them. So I disagree I think they basically are the same. I think he just aesthetically, he thinks they look terrible Looks they might They do. D D here it is. All right, next one A cable release FFF So this is the one, the manual cable release, not like an intervalometer, just a cable release You know, the ones that definitely work with every camera with a threaded Shutter, right? Every single camera I think we would also count the electric ones that you would use on like rebels and stuff like that, right? I mean this is what we We can on RCs and stuff like that. But it's only it's not for a creative effect, like an intervalometer. This is justering remotely. Tgger the camera I mean, we give cameras a really hard time if they have a threaded release or a thread on the shutter and it won't work with a cable release But, you know, I've been thinking about it a little bit. and u if The two second or ten second timer is not going to get the job done. Every camera made in the last fifteen years has an app you can use to trigger your cer That is. We'll also give you an unlimited length cable These things should be left in the dust bin of history and they are F tier my I have three of them because I need them for my panoramic cameras. the shut. absolutely you get a pass on. No no, so yeah, I mean, they're not they're D tier. You know are modern cameras, Chris for modern cameras It's stupid. can you even I mean, apps do a lot of it now, right? But apps can in the ass to set up and integrate like someim ten second timer or the three second timer, the self timer, Th those are perfectly acceptable. I think those are. Yeah, but okay, so I'm lazy. So I use self timer all the time, right to do my lens testing on the chart, to do landscapes, waterfalls, all that stuff' just use them those aret Those things aren't moving, okay seelf timers become absolutely useful are useless when you're trying to use tripods to capture moving subjects, getting light streaks at nighttime, for example, you need a cable release. okay? So that kind of stuff, no, they're still super useful. He's the King of niche circumstances, Jordan to to rationalize I thought we would have one I was looking at this lift One definite F ter. thank goodness. We gave you all the categories and Maybe that's the lesson is that in photography, no item is useless. They're all made for a certain Anyways. you know what? becausecause there's modern apps now, we can put in an FTRold in my eyes. I've said my part. I've said my part The Nistty fifty That's the next one The answer can't be yes, Chris. It has to be tiaered. I'm thinking. Jordan I'm leaning towards A tier. This was one of my big hobby Is a hobbyorse the right phrase, but this is something I leaned on a lot back when I was at the camera store. like Look, you're buying mirrorless or a DSLR camera. you're looking for that more professional look, a Nifty fifty is a great way to get it without spending a lot of money. So yeah, I think it was logically something that can give you U An aesthetic that you might be trying to get without spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a fAsoo Ased here Eest here Nast t here. specially we consider a lot of the kit lenses back in the day were like really slow three, five to five sixes and you know It let people experiment with different depth of field, it let people shoot while forcing themselves into a particular focal length. I think these are all positive things for somebody that's learning, that's beginning and learning. They teach you photography. I think that that's very valuable Image quality, fine, better, sure, affordable, small Yeah, man, Nty fifty is great. I'm all for it. They were affordable. you know, they're usually one hundred and fifty bucks, like US probably less one hundred twenty, something like that back in the day. Yeah, hundred percent. I will tell you, I bought one And u Did never regret that purchase. Yeah there you go. S Yeah. I think it's good. I think if you get anywhere between thirty five and fifty Yeah And it's a gateway drug from the terms of the camera store to get you into like playing with other the lenses and maybe, oh, I want it a different prime works. Yeah it works, ye yeah. yeah. I would advocate a N fifty fifty before I'd advocate like a fifty five to two hundred fifty or seventy to three hundred L learn how use a crime. I think it makes you a better phograp There you go. Look. we didn't disagree on everything U LCD protector. They used to be The rage every Nikon DSLR had one U Do we need them now? fully articulating screens to the rescue F here left here Jordan ree Yeah, I'm willing to give it an F. Yeah And they would always clump up if you did have a swivel screen. Clicking it in over time, they'd start to like bubble up on the sides and stuff and then you'd have to peel it off and you'd still have residue from the first LCD protor. Oh you're talking like a stick that LCD protector and customers would come into the camera store. Like I'm trying to get this thing on. I've had three LCD protectors before. Can you please put it on perfectly smoothly on top of my LCD and you would waste a half an hour and you wouldn't get lunch Yeah, that wasn't annoying You know the hard plastic ones were awful. I mean, they were bulky, they'd fall off all the time. you'd knock them off and stuff. They'd get like linten stuff underneath. you have to open it up. But I could see like a professional SLR user in like a sporting event or something. Yeah, you want to protect that back screen because if you crack it, that sucks, right scratches, who cares? Make note that like Mirroress cameras now, like none of that's existing for them, right? It's all going to be the plastic smartphone, whatever gorilla glass stick ons. And who does that, right? Plus you can't if it's an articulating screen that folds away, you can't really fit them in with stuff on there. anyways.s like, I don't know, yeah, F t Not not, you know, scratches on your back element on your back LCD are not a big deal. Scratches on your front of your lgens that can be an issue All right, got four lefts. This is why you should buy a UV filter Whep, You had the word hood on here, Jordan, and I'm assuming you were talking like hoodmen Like this Oh no, no, no, I was thinking a lens hood because a lot of consumer grade. lenses or if you got a camera kit, it generally would not come with a hood. What about a hoodman? I'll put hood back on here because that's separate. For video users only. Hood loops. let's bring them back. I want giant loops strapped to the back of your non articulating LCD on the back of your five D M two h you know, we used to be a great nation, No know we're in two different nations. I guess we both were once great nations back when we had Hoodms, but no longer can burn in hell. But lunch hoods are an interesting conversation because like, yeah There's nothing bad about them in any way, shape or form from a completely academic you know, standpoint, you should always use them. Right? They protect your lens, they prevent flare. These are all very, very good things, but they're pain in the ass to take along with you who wants to bring them along. They're stupid and they're annoying and you know, they don't stow nicely and you put it in your camera bag, then you put your lens in and it jams on funny and then it's they're stupid. So I don't use them But I should. They're really good. The hood is good. We even did an episode about the hood is good. beat here What happened? Okay, firstirstly, the hoodman's an F, right Yeah, Hudman's enough. Okay We had didn see that image though. I got very nostalgic. st C you remember the dark ages where we'd stick Velcro frames on our DSLR screens and then stick this trash on the back like with a magnified eyeepiece and stuff. It's hilarious as you could do it. combed with those LCD protectors on Nikons, so you would already get like worse light transfer missance. and then you have this thing on there But you was't photographer foray Everything was amazing. That's my point. It wasn't photographers. photogray like Those backacks screes are useless for photography. It was for videographers. Forced to use T twoI's and five DMark Thes to do their video work. Like is garbage, dude. Yeah. It was an awful, awful Mad Max style. All of us watchick so you guys listening could run. Yeah. Yeahah. Thank you, Jerred, you're right so the pedal hood or any hood, I think BT. I think pedal hoods by the way, are just really ugly, but sure. they're fine. they're better than no hood. So I have an interesting experience because I use stepping rings constantly I' film them. So I can't use a hood and I'm always waving my damned hand above my lens, trying to cover things. while Chris is doing a talking point Like a dummy. So if I were just out like taking pictures, ND's weren't part of the equation, I would always and I can actually speak to when I'm out taking pictures Basically a hundred percent of the time I have a hood on. I think they're great. I vote a tier. . So Jaron, you're the tie brereaker here A or B A or B Guys purchased hoods. aftermarket hoods and on my TX one, it came with the Fujifilm hood and that bad boy never leaves the camera I'm Ad. I test lenses all the time without them though You know That's really good when you're testing fllare, but ye 'cause they're painting the ass to carry on, but yeah, it's yeah The square ones I like. I think they become good They become sexy Yeah they're they're they're part of the look of the GFX one hundred RF when you use the one they include that camera becomes even even less portable Be it then has a really big stick out But manand does it look good? Yeah. It looks so good And I have one on my thirty five on my Besa. lookooks great. All right Flash Any flash This one's a Gx flash, but you can have your pick Till you by a speed light I feel like this has changed a lot in the last five years because the entry point used to be so high with these things. Yeah, likeike it was always I remember we thes first at the market people were like, whoa, they could be this an on camera flash for a hundred dollars. What? What? I had a photics My photics was a little more expensive than a young Nuo, but so it had more features, but it was low bar wayay cheaper than like the Canon ones. I've for a w. a Pro fllash was like six hundred bucks. It was so expensive. I've never owned one of those and I have never regretted the decision to go cheap I mean, I think we're Oh, sorry go ahead. The the camera brands have also basically ceded that market. Most of them just like, you know what?ver. Yeah. They're like we do offer it It might actually be a dead link on the website, like they haven't feel like compatible accessories, but no one's ever clicked it nordder. I have to think Nikon must have sold Thousands hundredundreds of thousand becausecause they had a really good se that hundreds a real system was phenomenal. Yeah, it was really good so I was on a recent press trip and saw the that I can't talk about and saw the new little Godock sixties, which can work as a slave or receiver and they're like eighty bucks a pop. like you could build a pre light setup U Yeah, and then the little Wescott super compact manual ones like you can learn so much about lighting without investing in big bulky stuff. I think that's pretty cool now Yeah, it's funny though, because it's like Fash is at its most exciting right now. As you say, the costs are low Powerers high, lots of cool effects, easy to do multiple flash setups. And yet I feel like less and less people are using them I think a big part of that is people were using flash for a lot of situations just to handle dynamic range to help reduce dynamic range des needs. And now that our sensors have gotten so good, that's basically become a moot point in a lot of cases. Now you're doing it for the look. Yeah, yeah, you crank your eye so high and it doesn't matter, right? Whereas before, if you had went above three thousand two hundred, your photo sucks, right. So So photo was was Yeah It was a legitimate necessary source of light, right? Now we don't need that. Yeah. So it still is absolutely valuable creatively for the reasons it's always been. giving you a light source that you can shape, change the color of, modify. Regardless, flash is a little tricky to learn. You have to learn how to balance your ambient exposure and your flash exposure or how to calibrate them separately for creative effect. You need to learn about diffusion, you need to learn about bouncing. you need to learn about directionality, wireless flash setups. There's a lot to it for sure. Remember when Joe McNally books were just like the thing, right? You just like, o man, you go on a beach, take picture of a model on a beach The background's like dark and the sunset's brilliant and then they're lit up so nicely and they probably have like a hula skirt on and there's a spinning fire and stuff like that, right? But Clarity and saturation all the way up. Yeah, and sharpness, too, right? Like your lens sharpness is ideal with a flash because it's such a fast equivalent shutter speed, so to speak. So Yeah, man. Flash is still super cool. I feel like people are too lazy to use it nowadays. whereereas before they were too scared now they're too lazy. but Um, I still think they're great. We use studio flashes a lot for our lens testing and stuff. So I think a flash should be back in the day, I would say flashes were like B tier A tier Nowadays as an add on for sales, maybe likei CTier. I'm not comfortable recommending them as an add on The original thing you purchase your camera, get a flash with it. I think you need to decide if you're actually totally need that flash. That's a good point. You should never buy a flash right off the bat with your. So that's why to me falls to D tier. L you don't buy this They're super useful though. They're like they are super useful I would never use one Yeah, but I don't think you should buy an accessory grip right alongside your camera the first time, but it's in B tier. I don't think you should buy a well you know C Jordan.ver.' So so Jordan. I'm. Chris at C. whereere are you? Yeah. so alwaysways say to photographers like how do you set yourself apart these days? Flash is one of the easiest ways 'cause no one knows how to use it. And it's super affordable now. I'm gonna join Chris in the C Tier here Next to the UV filter. Boy, C tier is just things Jarren hates. No, C tier stands for Chris Tier, ' these are things that Chris loves Well, then I want to move that to beat t here . But last two, first one, a rain cover Jy another camera. Just buy another camera when it What if you live in Costa Rica here It won't help. It's the humidity that really gets you. The key is it The shower cap is S here, man. That amazing it'llask. The shower cap. I could have hide underneath this giant shower c a huge g there. Oh, I was deemed ripping. It was gross. Yeah. but the lens was still poking out the front. No range covered down Is juicy Dedicated rain cover that's F, right? O Yeah Yeah, well, no, but no well, it depends on the camera because like Jesus, you know, in Alaska we were using the Eterna, which has the waterproofing of like a lfa sponge. And, you know, you had to physically protect it, right? But like but moster is a better choice. The shower cap is better than a dedicated rain cover from like. The one I have here is a think tank rain cover made out of like, you know, plastic We had dedicated rarain bags et ceta. You h and we left them. Yeah, we left them. because we were like the rain bag is going to work better. N, that's use case. I think these are great. Again, sideline pitch, wildlife photographers, these are absolutely important Um cameras are also way better weather sealed than they used to be. Remember like five D two s had no weather sealing and it was like camera. Yeah. but now Now Like thousand dollar cameras are largely weather se. I mean, I don't use them personally, so I shouldn't really speak to it. So you guys put it wherever you want. He just he just loves to be like the contrarian in the room. No last one. I'm just smarter than both of you, but that's fine. You put it where you want to put it test that. U lastast one extxtended warranty Is that what that scientist for U useless. stupid What an awful, I feel dirty for even selling. Our boss said you have to ' it's pure profit. And yeah, like the amount of claims that came back was very minimal because cameras usually survive longer. Um You know Is that true Jordan? It's an F I think its it's an F. like we didn't get a ton of stuff coming back like this is under service, but don't worry there's an extended warranty. But even sometimes there was like back and forth process and things like that with it and And also like the one year warranty is a little less common. because I believe Fujifilm is doing two, Nikon, I know is still doing two, five on glass. Tamron's doing like seven years or some madness. I don'dt have to double check that. but yeah it's Tamron's is very good. Now any be extended The extended warranties would cover accidental damage, like you drop the thing and smash it, right? But you had to be able to recover it. So if your camera lens went to the bottom of the ocean, you're done. If it got stolen, which is very common, you're not going to get anything, right? You had to be if you dropped it off a cliff, you'd have to go down that cliff. find a destroyed chassis to bring it in. Otherwise, of course, we couldn't honor it, right? So there was always extraneous circumstances that voided a lot of the time. Yeah, as Jordan says, like the warranties the manufacturers put on were long lasting Yeah, man. was it was a pure profit gimmick. I love the very little use. The requirement was you needed to have the serial number. So like if your camera gets hit by a train and you have like the lens mount still or something, nope, you're going back on those train traacks the Serial number. Serial number. ye. Look, I do remember two or three times where a customer came in and like, Oh man, I destroyed my camera. What do I do And then we looked like, o, damn, you got the extended work to. You're all right. L donon't worry about it, right? And they were so happy, like you couldn't imagine the joy. but that's up, that's up very minor payoff for an otherwise big expense. So yeah Trash, garbage, don't do it. I don't know about like Amazon now and like bestest buy and stuff. they do their little like twenty dollars extended whatevers on headphones and stuff. Maybe those are more useful because those are easy to break, but I don't know, man, cameras now, don't do it. All right. final tier list is actually pretty balanced Sier battery and a Nifty fifty Eight here cleaning supplies for your lens or camera and a lens hood B tier, straps and a optional grip Yeah. C tier UV protector and a spepeed light Yeah. D tier the lens bag and a battery grip That's where I belong. Tear The remote cable release manual ones, LCD protectors, hoodmans, rain covers, and Insurance.y. So a lot of bad products Otherwise very b except there's a lot of trash out there All of these will be attempted to be foisted upon you should you purchase a nick camera at a store Now you know which ones you actually need. I hope you all are gonna be Pillid in the comments. I'm looking forward to that veryer. Pillarid is a spectacular word That is a ten say we more you. I think I'm going to be vindicated, but we'll see I'making that my word of the year twenty twenty six All right. Qickly, what have you been up to Jordan Yomia a's story Okay, so Jaron, I popped up on my little webcam. He said, What's up with your face? If you've watched it this far you have already commented, What's up with Jordan's face? Does he have some sort of terrifying STI? I just asked you you got hit in the about your lip? L my lip. Yeah. Oh, I barely noticed it. ye Okay Well, my lighting's exceptional Um Yeah, basically I have a lip pimple. I know you're all going to talk about it. It won't go away. I have to record pieces to camera this week so you can see it develop and flourish and rescind over the course of the next few episodes. That's what's going on with me, and it is occupying about eighty six percent of my waking thoughts Pple This a h.s a sh man, this is a painful place and Do I want to eat a bagel right now? I don't know. It'll be uncomfortable Sck it. Does Ev have any concealer you can use to cover that up? She talked about it before, but I'm concerned like if do that during the course. Now I've got like makeup streak combined with grossness. U But no to her credit, she was like, can I help you with your Face faults, so yeah, she's the best Unlike my face, which is not the best. You know what? Jordan's face d teer V's very hard on yourself there budd U I'll go next. Yesterday was memorial Day here in the United States. and so it is you're contractually obligated. It's right next to your birth certificate. You also have to sign that you will barbecue On Memorial Day. Oh, really, interesting. regardless of weather stakes look so So I did find some Prime steaks at Costco Tmahw stes. Yeah. And while they were expensive They weren't like crazy because these were big those are beautiful. I think I can eat these over the course of multiple meals. And so I did get them. and I did a I dried them first for twenty four hours in the fridge and then I used my immersion circulator to get them to the perfect temperature. and then I hit those boys with my bingeoton. And gave them some hard crust on there. They were great That was great. really good. That was on Instagram, right? Yeah, just a quick three secondnder. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I. I fully support cultural appropriation when it comes tomahawk stes. I think that's a great thing to do. Th look so good. And yeah. tell me. I was jealous What have you been up to, Chris? Besides adjusting to the time zone again? Yeah, which has been rough. Me too man, this is hardest has been a weird one. well again. No, I didn't. I was telling Evelyn, the aforementioned lip concealer offer that I'm still not flipping over. I was up at three again. I was up at three too should have start We should have texted. I'm saring from youing. My whole life my whole life here apart from traveling to Japan, both ends, book ending a travel to Japan has been finishing the backyard. So like built a pergolp from to Japan. and now I'm like seeding things for the garden, planting tomatoes, finish my gates on the deck on both ends. So it's just been a lot of it's making the outdoor nice so that Ein was bragging for you. She didn't give you any credit for it, by the way. It was on Instagamam She she sat there and said this is like lookook what I did Y she just listen to She takes f ownership for it. Yes. abbsolutely. It did not mention at all that you had done all that work in this picture, by the way. She was like, look at my awesome view for the rest of summer. and I'm like I know who is was responsible for that view That's Chris Nichles That's what a good husband does. Thankless job, but, you know Oh man. All right She thanked me. She thanked me in her own way was weird. Since I'm the only one who cares about tech support Let's try care about tech support. I just. I just did that to mess with you, Chris because you said it last week. Would we have forty seconds for tech support? I hate this. U so we're gonna to do one from Nick Cle is an email and that's time Hey guys, I've been mulling over this for a bit and I was curious if there's a fun discussion or insider insights about this topic to be had on the podcast. From a photography point of view, why don't the major camera companies manufacture more lenses with clickable aperture rings or custom rings on their native lenses For example, the Nikon ZF is begging to have this feature, at least on the smaller short normal focal length primes. Also, specifically in regard to Nikon compared to Canon and Sony, Nikon often gets criticized for not having the ability to change the exposure triangle with three different wheel controls on their bodies An aperture ring and possible firmware update to control ISO by one of the body dials is a way to counter these critiques To complain further, we love complaining here Canon not having clickable aperture rings on their newest Lenses is a crime Don't even get getting started on the ring not being usable on older camera bodies, yah. even bigger crime. Jesus. B bigger crime. Yeah. And while Nikon made positive moves in this direction with making their newest twenty four to seventy F two point eight two with a clickable custom ring, why not add the aperture engravings? I get that's probably for customization purposes, but come on, Furthermore, I don't doubt that some of Fujif Film's appeal with their XT line of cameras comes from these manual controls on their lenses as well. With the advent of vintage style digital cameras and resurgence of film undoubtedly influencing that trend, the market seems ripe to return to lenses Lastly, if my memory is correct, clickable aperture rings were always a feature on older film lenses, at least in the proumerated professional markets, why did they stop Overall, the ability to click, dec click the aperture rings, it can't be that much more costly to manufacture in the design of the lenses. Right? Hm Long story short, and your esteemed opinions, oh God steamed Why do you think camera companies skimp on this feature in their lenses? Do you think you willll ever come back or just be a random feature here or there? Thanks for the time and consideration for possible discussion. As always, love your work and everything you do, warmest for guards Niicolai, Nichkolas That's a tough one. Yeah, your complaints are not unfounded The reason why old lenses had manual ature rings is because they were mechanically linked. I mean, it was a necessity, right? You knowith electric lenses, we don't need to do that. We can control it through the body. But yeah, the industry has become like the wild wild West where there's so many different ways of controlling your camera. It's not just the lenses either, it's the bodies too, because some bodies do have lots of rings and dials, some don't There are situations where adding an aperure ring has absolutely changed the ergonomic handling of a camera and made it far more useful. know Just the forty mil Panasonic is a great recent example where the forty mil F two on the S nine dramatically changed the handling just by having an aperture ring But yeah, it's not so much that I think they're chintsing out. A lot of the times the lenses don't have the space physically to accommodate it and still have other stuff, or it really comes down to like handling. want every lens manufacturers different ideas on like who this lens is for. Will beginners care? Will pros care, who's gonna use it Customizable rings are a great step in the right direction. but yeah, it makes sense they wouldn't have apertures on there because you could use it for anything But yeah, man, it's really just a mishmash Fujifilm is an example of a company, I think, where they had a very direct and strong design aesthetic that they were gonna hold to on a lot of their products. That doesn't mean they do it one hundred percent, but for the most part, they're like, our lenses should by and large have aperture rings, right? And like our cameras should have a certain amount of dials. But even then, you have variation. it's all about intention, who the camera is for, Will it be appreciated And that means that we live in a wild chaotic maelstrom of ringage. I have a couple things there. So I do think the Fujif film is based on the design idea that on their higher end cameras, you can tell your exposure without powering the camera up You can see your ISO, your shutter speed. and on the lens, your aperture is indexed for you. I think that's part of why we're seeing those primarily on Fujifilm lenses If I had an XD five, I would want an aperture ring on there for that exact reason That being said, I found largely, I really don't need an indexed aperture ring when I'm out shooting. I am totally shot have a customized control ring. With click stops, I really like having click stops with aperture. so you can feel if a setting's been changed. And we singled Con out as someone doing it wrong, but in a lot of ways I like what they're doing. all of those lensas that have a stepless aperture ring on them for video also have a stepped unmarked ring. So if you prefer Cicky stop. Yeah. just set your aperture to that and ignore the stepless iris that you're never going to want for photography. It's off As a photographer, I've got a ring on there that has apertures on it, but I have to use the other custom ring for apertures instead. That's terrible. Terrible idea. They could have fixed it with a tiny switch anyways. but I get what you're saying otherwise All right. That's all the time we have for there. What I know.. Am I the only one that advocates for the users and their questions And Yes, I am. a mean one. Next week, we will have more time, I hope 'll be I'll get to that in a second. But before we do do that, do do feel good story of the week Our boy Gordon Lang Put together a really nice video about the Rty onene on his Dyinoyes channel And I have a somewhat selfish reason for bringing this attention up. He's like, wait a minute Jarren has a Bessa. I know no one else who has one And this camera was designed with the Bessa's body basically and slightly adjusted. so he asked me to record some footage of my vesa for him. and so that makes an appearance in his video. Hopefully it was helpful for those who wanted to get a view of it. But anyway, this is a great You can't get enough of Jarren's hands. Go check out Cton Lang's video for some extra Jereren Fingy action And yeah, you' see my best The Ari one is super sweet. The Bessa is also super sweet. And yeah, I think you guys should check that out. It's a good video. Gordon does B under an Epson brand name for no good reason whatsoever, but it had really nice controls. Yeah, Gordon brings that up. He thinks that having the Epson name on there hurt this camera Prob it was a weird thing It was such a weird thing. There's also been there were a whole bunch of RD oneon videos like ten years ago when we did ours. There haven't been many recently. so I think it's cool to get again kind of a fresh look at it now that we're seeing this resurgence and interest in small cameras. Why why No other brand and I've said this before and I know we have to go, but why no other brand on the planet has ever decided to make an alternate alternitative digital range findinder like this still blows my mind I think you're right China will eventually be Pixy. Yeah. But come on man. like, you know, there should be tons of these It's weird that LIA has had basically unfettered access to the digital rangefinder market for this many years, and nobody else has attempted to do it. when proof of concept was right there and this was like twenty two years ago, right? Like it's not rocky like. It beat Lka to the digital rangefinder Yeah, and it's a cool camera, right? Like why has nobody it blows my mind. So these Chinese manufacturers are making all the lenses for it. I don't know why they're not making range findinders. No one's going to convince me that optical rangefers are hard technology to recreate seriously people. We were doing it since like the dawn of photography I know this is a quick, quick aside, but of the companies that are making cameras today, could theoretically remake one of these with relative ease. I know Fujifilm has made rangefinders before ha I own a Fuifilm rangefind camera so there's one like a f one. Yeah. Yeah, but that doesn't matter. The actual unit it doesn't matter for film or digital. It's all it's all pen. techn technically everybody, every company made range Cers back in the day. they all did. everyvery single one of them. I mean that was that was the thing, right? pllus like fifty thousand German companies and you know a few Russian ones and like everybody in their dog made rangefers. Making it digital, yeah, that's the difference, but I mean, it's not hard to do. I don't The whole top unit with the rangefinder in it is all manual anyway. So moving digital. And the Ai one is a great example of how you can modify a film version rangefinder into a digital body. And to have a winder that actually does something and is cool. don't. feels much fun It's so much fun from aack. You should make a signature Chris Nichols rangeinder and produce three hundred of them one hundred percent, that's what we're going to do. Yeah. As far as a company that could do it nowadays, like who should do it I don't know, Mint maybe, or I mean, any of the big like seven arts could do, TTRs could do it a Viltrox could do a The issue is access to sensors. Typod could do it. Yeah. I think you have to go with a company that actually can get sensors H. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, folks. Yeah nextext week, we'll be back in person We're going to pot like together Yeah Yes. are three together like this intermesed. We'll be in Hotlanta U at KEH, we're going to go talk about used cameras and lenses, old stuff. Maybe I'll play with an Epson already won. We'll see what they have. So as a bit of a precursor, we' KH has a like camera vault, a rare camera and lens vault You can't buy anything in there, but it's just like like their museum. They're going let Chris pick something out of there and we're going to make an episode out of it. We don't know what's in that vault. I've asked them not to tell us. So Chris is going to go in blind and we're going to figure out what he's going to do. But next week, if you got questions about use gear, like you'd like us to ask, please put them in the comments below. We'll include those and make sure because we're going to talk to folks over there. o Oh my god, Chris. They're probably going to force me to use a camera strap Which I will la flashes of that swinging and going straight into the lens of your camera. so you destroy both lenses. The cameras There you go. All right, Thankks folks for joining us Hope you enjoyed it see you next week live in person, notot live, but in person. Also, here in Atlanta, we're doing a beers and cameras event Check out see us for details. Go to KEH' Instagram for details, Come see us, come hang out Yeah we don't do these very often. So all the Lker users can come punch me in the face Bye.