Michael Steele on Hip Hop Republicans

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You hey Hello my friend We got producer Bruce Baldwin. on the dials today Coming up, Joel in the press box, what do we make of Scott Pelly's FU interview after he was fired by Barry Weiss Donald Trump did some pre gaming at Madison Square Garden before the big fight on the White House lawn It's primary day for the very embattled Senate candidate Graham Platner in Maine Plus MS now host Michael Steeel joins us to talk about All kinds of things From Republican Rot to hip hop Republicans let's start here Be we got some breaking news just before we hit record today. Mhm Andrew Marshanne reports ESPN and Representatives for Pat McAfeee are discussing an extension to his contract That would pay him more than sixty million dollars per year Whzy man Sources briefed on the talks told the athletic sixty million dollars I mean, who makes like Ronaldo mix that much money like there's not even a lot of athletes I didn't make sixty million dollars a year No. I mean TV people that makes sixty million. I'd love to know who that is. I remember once pointint of time I remember hearing that Jim Ro made about thirty million a year Yeah, that was always a weird one Yeah. I never knew what to do with that figure. I mean that seems like a lot maybe in the Heyday of sports talkal radio, but that seems like a whole lot of money Yeah, yeah. Oh fantic Jim Re But fifty million dollars a year, I mean, that's more than Tom Brady. That's more Tom Brady, Yeah. That's more than any news anchor you know Again, like, I don't Yeah, what I mean, that's does LeBron James makes sixty million dollars a year I would think he'd be in the neighborhood, right? Yeah, but I'ming with endorsements and everything like that Yeah, right. But it' television money, that's just a crazy amount of money. That's just I mean, just I they're I've read stories in awful announcing that they're going to be announcing layoffs at ESPN at some point this month. I guess they got to be able to afford Pat Mc ofy. Now as Marciian notes in his piece McVfee doesn't take all sixty million because he uses that money part to pay people who work on a show. which he owns By the way, SSP doesn't even own the show for sixty million dollars My question to you is this, what has Patt McAfee done to deserve that kind of money at the ESPN Um, I think they just want him to be the face of the network. sideide of it all. Right? that like he represents the one hundred and eighty the turn from the you know, woke care of it I was employed for, you know, when it was more, you know Pablo, Mina Um, Dan Lebotard. folks like that. And this is an investment in that And it's In spite of the money itself ite in spite of the numbers themselves because You know There's not any evidence that he's pulling in a whole bunch of listeners or viewers. And in fact, I remember there was a release that ESPN had in April, right talalking about their quarter one numbers. and The shows listed, spports Center get up NBA todayay They only use linear numbers for them. Pet McAfee. They added in YouTube numbers to make it seem like they were the same numbers as the TV numbers They lump them together And I'm just like All right I guess they just They want this to seem like a success and damnit, they're going to make it a success. one hundred percent. I mean, there's a scramble drill Every time there's a press release to talk about how great those numbers are Burke Magnus goes out and does a whole car wash. We're so pleased with the numbers. They're unbelievable He's killing it on YouTube Look here. Look over at this metric over here. He's crushing it Yeah Yeah, they're just they they are bound and determined to show us that, hey, man, we're getting our money's worth. This is working out. And it's really an interesting thing because Like ESPN has decided it's going to work And it's sort of a metaphor for America And that like Hey man CBS News, for instance, and we're going to talk about that Very wise They're supporting her. They're saying that she's executing the vision of David Ellison. Elon Musk at Twitter has lost actual people that are using it. It's like filled with bots now, right they still try to sell a success. And I sort of see ESPN in the same way that they're saying It doesn't matter if we're lay off people. It doesn't matter that people are shifting to other forms of media consumption. Pat McAfee is going to work, damn it, and it's working. We can show you some numbers, even though these numbers are kind of funny What boggles my mind is that ESP is always shopping at the high end Yeah. they don't make stars anymore, right? Yeah. And again, I've asked Jimmy Paro about this directly in his office And of course he denies that that's the case You look at what he's done and his successes, to be honest getting Joe and Troy in there getting inside the NBA in there Yeah. Th are those are wins, however you want to say it gettingting Pat Mcafee inside the network before other people running television networks understood that Podcasters could bring something to linear television to linear television companies that was harder to jin up ins side. likeike I give him credit for figuring that out You and I might have picked another podcaster to bring in there But I think he understood something about how the media was changing before a lot of his cohorts did So I give him cp there. But at some point can't just keep buying Rolls Royce is all the time. L really? the point. Well, you can, but but wouldn it be much more efficient to say we've still got a lot of people working at ESPN Why don't we make them into podcast stars. Why don't we make them into YouTube stars?t whyy don't we just create stuff instead of outsourcing everything to Omaha Why don't we go find those people we really like who aren't making thirty million do or sixty million dollars a year and figure out a way to them onto that tippy top tier podcast I the thing is even when I was there, like podcasting was just sort of a tertiary concern Right? Like it just wasn't something that they put a lot of energy in And I'm looking at their pod page now. most of them, you know, get up Uh first take Adam Schefter show, which I imagine is probably produced by, you know, Omaha Rich Isizen show. That's not something that they came up with. Rich Isisen came with that already. So yeah, I mean they just inststead of trying to build stuff and that this was happening even when I was there almost a decade ago They're just getting existing properties and You know, maybe maybe that just cuts out startup money. likeike maybe that're just like instead of like trying to build an audience paying for promo all this other stuff, Let's bring people that already got audiences. and I guess there's one way to do it and maybe it'll work. because there'll always be people that are doing great somewhere else And if you're ESPN and you've got the money and you've got the platform, people will probably going to work for ESPN. And so maybe they just think they can do this in perpetuity. Understand, it's just so expensive to do it that way It's just crazily expensive to do it that way Honestly, I think you're right about them bringing audiences in. I think that's part of it To me, this all starts with this anxiety. Mhm And it's a well founded anxiety ESP and the call letters Do not stand for the same things for a younger generation that they stood for our generation That's not just seven eleven for sports Z Rock whatever brand you want to come up with that leg You know, somebody who's younger is like, I just watch, you know, Josh Pate or I just watch McAfee on YouTube And again, I like To me, that's, you know if you're Jimmy Pataro, if you're the people running the company, it's smart to go out and just say like, okay This is going to be driven by personality now We can get big sports rights and get people in the door, but there's going to be certain people who just never pay for anything They just want to watch stuff on YouTube. They want to watch listen to people on podcasts. They'll follow Stephven A, they'll follow Pat, they' follow Mina, they'll follow whomever But I'm just like At some point, it's got to be somebody else, right? There's got to be a plan B that by the way, you don't even have to choose. You can execute these two plans at the same time I guess, but it feels like they've kind of lost their ambition to do sort of different stuff. in that way. And so I I assume that they think that they can continue to do this forever and that they never have to develop. They never It's kind of like the Yankees, man. You know what I'm saying? like a lot of the Rams. It's like we don't have to draft anybody. We want to get players that we know are good and we're not going to were to spend a lot of time worrying about that. And that is a philosophy that is sort of working But my thought is This is kind of happened a long time at ESPN in particular Who are they competing against? Like why sixty million dollars? Wh Who else was in the Who was who did they have to beat to get the sixty million? Probably Pat going independent I think that's a competition Igain, I think it goes back to that anxiety that he goes independent and that people that came into his you know, came into him through YouTube or wherever they came from, just leave Because ESPN again, just means something different to them than it meant to us I mean, you could probably get somebody to recreate those numbers, Dg. Like that's the thing. like I think I think so Yeah. L it doesn't even have to be like that because I mean the sixty like we started out saying what is he done to deserve sixty million. again, I'm not trying to cast any aspersions on Pat McAfee. Obviously like he's a star. and people have identif. You try to cast some aspersions. Let's just be frank. Yeah, well I mean, I would, you know, yes, maybe. but maybe Yeah, but I just That's the That's a lot of money and I feel like you could get somebody to pull those numbers. The evidence is that there shows right now that you have that are pulling in those sort of numbers and I bet If you just went through any podcast list ranking or whatever, you could find somebody not at ESPN that is doing that for a lot less than sixty million dollars. I think if I was paying that kind of money for a podcaster I would want that podcast to be giving birth to other podcasts. To be a pot father, if you will. which we've seen we've seen various people do around the universe. Colin Cow Heard, Dan Labberatar. Sure Simmons, but with Pat, it all just seems to be about Pat It seems to be about projects for him, right? Like it's going to lead to Hey, he has an alt cast in the national Championship game He's, you know, doing primete specials, whatever he's doing, but it's like it's another thing for Pat Yeah. I was just think about it like if they spun off like AJ Hawk park The cigar lounge with AJ Hart. Yeah, yeah. I was like great. I just I think he's always been a solo actor. He's been trapped on that show personally. Yeah. Right. Yeahah. I mean, it's just like I see his head. againain, I've it's In recent months, I have seen AJJ Hawk actually talk, but yeah, it It'd be nice to see who who would be in his minor leeagues who he could build up and and and spin off Now part of that reported sixty million is also Pat McAfee's work on Game dayay That's to me where he's always made the most amount of sense Be he's good on that show. He's very good on a show. He solves the problem of What who am I actually going to listen to on a pre game show? Not many people in that world, there's a couple on Game dayay But there aren't many people in the entire television universe that actually like lift my eyes to the TV screen and watch rather than just passively consuming You know, the kicking contest, that to me is like Pated his absolute best And it sort of feels in the L Cor soak gap Right.' like you kind of it's it passes on that torch and They do he does have a rapport with Nick San. and if you want Nick Savan next to him presumably for I don't know how many more years that'll be because N exxcept' seventy four years old, but You know He he gets along with them. And so yeah Yes, it used to be father' son Herbie and Corso. And now it's father and Waywards son. Saban and McAfee foootball coach and kicker, you know, he' the kicker much. And I tot understandSP wanted to keep that intact because if McAfeee takes his show and leaves He's probably not going to be doing game dayay And then all of a sudden it's like Okay, we just had this huge personality leave that show. We're already being challenged by Fox Big new kickoff Getting people to watch college football really, really important to us. That show functions as an advertising vehicle for all of our games. That's expensive inventory. We've paayid for the whole playoff, et cetera, et ccetera. I totally understand that. Maybe one goes with two and that's how you wind up with a figure like this sixty million dollars oney Dark. I mean, that's he's one of the highest paid people in sports in the world. Like that's the thing. It's not just me in the world. There are not very many athletes. He's m I mean, just he was a kicker dog. L he played professional football and he got so much wealthier. in media. It's crazy.'solute czy. Congrat to him. I want to talk to you about game three of the NBA finals manan. It was a very special guest We're not talking about Jeremy Lyn No, we're not talking about Tracy Morgan either Oh man, notve been ster, not no Now not Timothy Shall we're talking about Donald Trump Yeah Donald Trump win And they turned those streets in town We call the mid we call we call MSG midtown up south of midtown think so Yeah. We they turn the streets around MSG into a security perimeter That looks so sad. really you can see in the pictures from there throughout the day, I was like, man, that that's not what u a week ago that we thought we were going to see around there No. And I'll say this, we have secular grace for Donald Trump My, um How should I say this? Like my my my tears for rich Kicks fans who are trying to get into the game Mhm are pretty, you know, they can fit in a thimble Like I I'm not too worried about those people right Those aren't the those aren't the people trying to get into that into game three of the NBA finals You know, a four thousand dollars get in price No, yeah. This is a special group of people. So you know, again the people had shops around there, the people who wanted to just kind of stand outside the garden and celebrate I feel sympathetic to that Oh, the other sympathy, it's limited sympathy Yeah, I mean, I knew people who live in New York. they were like before this was going to happen. they're like, oh, you know, we're not I'm not going to pay those tickets But I'm to just stand around outside, maybe go to a watch party, kind of soak in The vibe around there, which is cool on a regular season the night against the wizards. Yeah. So just imagine what this would is going to be like And All of a sudden just couldn't do it there I guess if you go to Bryant Park, they had a watch party at Briant Park. so againain, I don't like to challenge you that many times over the course of a single podcast, but is it really cool outside MSG on a regular season night when they're playing the wizards you know same New York that I lived in for you know, look, man, the one game that I saw in Madison Square Garden was like it was against the Wizards on a Wednesday night. you were standing outside though, you didn't go in? Oh yeah, I went in. That's right. Come on now outside. That's right. Oh ye would I would not do that because that's just me. But you know, if I was younger and wanted to get a little vibe, get a little mixy, That seems like a good place to get it done We were excited to see how the telecast would handle Donald Trump's presence last night. Yeah. what I want to give you three moments. . the inside the NBA gang Plus Jaymond We're on the court. Before things started, almost said kicked off. It's not football season yet. before things started And Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA got asked about Trump's appearance by Ernie Johnson Here is the Kamish I found out because Jim Dolan invited him to the game and he said, yes. and he's welcome to be here. I think that what makes sports so special, especially when there's so much to divise people is it something that we have in common and we should look for those things that we have in common and build off that. And I'll also say about President Trump, you know, I've been with the league for a long time. I ran MB Entertertainment years ago. He did an I Lumkins game spot with us. He was a fixture at MBA eight at Madison Square Garden. You guys remember all of you when you played here, not Dreammond, but back in the old days, he had courtside seats. He was here all the time. He was at drafts. so he's a genuine Kicks fan We should ask him somebody should ask him to do his all time. Have you played that eighty two an old game Fan yet? Have you I've seen al bes about it but I haven't indulged It's kind of fun. We should ask him to build his somebody should ask him to build his all time Nick team, you know She would since she was a coach. but but to this point, I just had to for a second I understand why Adam Silver has to play this game. likeike you can't turn away the president. I was a c. A college football championship game when Alabama played Georgia and Trump showed up Like if he wants to come You kind of got to let them come. likeike there's just no way around that. I just kind of think if Of course we can all come together over superficial things I mean, yeah I like basketball. I like sex and tacos, you know Yeah, like, oh cool, we came together on that, but that really doesn't have anything to do with like why people are like adamantly opposed to him. as the president, but I get why Adam Silverright's played. but I just whenever people say that, well this is something we could come together on, yeah And also, Donald Trump does not want to bring us together through sports No That is a very good point. He was on the tarmac afterwards slagging Steven A. like he doesn't he doesn't care. He wants to watch sports He wants to be seen He wants to enjoy theil sppoils of big president. He doesn't want to bring us together through this Do he want to bring us together through anything? I mean, to be honest, No, did not He's made that clear. So yeah U That brings us to moment number two and a refutation of what Adam Silver was pedaling there Donald Trump was booed. during the National Anthem. And bright st through the p by I saw a lot of people say that that's some of the loudest boooing they've ever heard that they hearing good on TV. doesn't quite capture it I love the Mike Breen Nose cell right afterwards We said nothing like a special anthem to get the crowd fired up Oh He was not touching that Have you ever heard people boo during the national anthem before? I was thinking about that. like I've heard but like during Usually people stop because this is a very sober, somber moment. sure. And I've never heard people just interrupted like multiple people, thousands of people interrupted with buooing. I've just never heard that momoment number three, Bryan came back to Trump During the game, this was a first mention of his name during the actual broadcast, L little over eight minutes left in the second quarter after the Nicks went on a run. Tonight, President Donald Trump becomes the first sitting United States president to attend an NBA finals game. Long time Nick fan. certainly liked what he saw here. This' a great run by the Nicks U we I texted you. I can't remember what point. It was before that they before they had mentioned Trump. like it was maybe early in the second quarter And I just just in case I hadn't missed it And I and you said, no, they hadn' mentioned his name. And even though they eventually came around to saying it Doesn't it just seem silly and beneath a program on a national broadcast and not mention the president. likeike he's You know, people America did vote for him. He is our president. likeike there's just no getting around it. I just I don't understand like playing footsea with it, you know. How would you have think how did do you think ESPN should handle it I mean, I just think that they should have said, hey, he's here. There's a lot of it's contributed to a lot of the u security measures and difficulty getting in here. He hasn't been to a game in so lot. They could have talked about what Adam Silver did. like the video of him at the last nextix game, that kind of stuff. but You know, it It is the first sitting president to go to the NBA finals. that's seemeems like a pretty big ifift. You wouldn't have thought If you had to look back at all the presidents, like maybe you would have thought Obama would have been that guy. likeike he was a huge hoops fan, but that Trump is the first one that seems Nable and Prob you should talk about it even if you consider to be divisive because he is the president. I usually want more rather than less, but I think I was fine with this to be honest. Really? Yeah. I think was I think it was fine. I think it was Let's just, let's not at it Let's acknowledge that he's here and then we can all tweet about that picture that made him look like he was asleep During the game I think that was fine. As I mentioned Donald Trump was on the tarmac talking about Stehen A because someone said that Steven A said it's your fault if it makes lose. They will blame Donald Trump and this was Donald Trump's response Commentator Stephven A Smith, who was talking about running for president, said he would blame you guy. You need a certain aptitude to run for president. You need a high IQ. I'm not sure that Stephven has that. I don't think he does actually. Stehen A, what he said, had nothing to do with him running for president. He just wanted to call him Lo here LolakQ is such a great dog whistle. Like it's replaced woke and a lot of precins and like a friend of mine said that Trump goes to that like it's just fadeaway jumper, man.'s like just it's like Brunon's fadeaway Yeah it's fade awayay, man. Like he goes to it, man. It's I mean, it's I consider it to be a racist, but I know a lot of people will disagree with that, but Stephen A, of court, responded which I didn't Were you surprised that Stehven they responded? Not that he responded. I would have given you even odds that would have been on his serious politics show rather than on a get up. E excuse me on first take And started out like that. let's play a clip of that, please. Bronsson played better when you weren't there. Mikuel Bridges played better when you weren't there, Josh Call Anthony Towns played better when you weren't there. Landry Chhamet played better when you weren't there The crowd was festive, hyped, and more intimidating when you weren't there. Businesses were thriving before you showed up. Parking garages would be aect before you showed up. There was noise reverberating off the walls of Madison Square Garden before you showed up And this is what you've done I thought you were in New Yorker, Mr. President thought you can I thought it mattered to you, Gotham City, the New York Kicks, the erasing of a fifty three year drought. I thought that mattered to you. This is what you've done. I mean, that's a good That is a real good way to not talk about how Jayalen Brunson is getting his ass kicked by Stefan Castle. He looks so happy He looked mad at times, but really he looked happy like here we go Oh yeah. I found it. I can combine Donald Trump and the Kicks What a combo I mean, what a moment for Stephven A That's right in his wheelhouse, man. And I gota give him credit. That was a really good response, I thought Sham Shirrani reports that Donald Trump is not expected to attend game four due to scheduling conflicts and obligations did not exist at all during game three because Everybody agreed to pause the war. for about two and a half hours. Do you think that if Don Jr. had gotten married on the same day as Game three, which way you he would have gone to? You know the answer to that? Yeah, Game three of course Yeah All right let's talk about sixty minutes and more particularly the Scott Pelly interview Scott Kelly talked to Lulu Garcia Navarro of the New York Times the magazine section of the New York Times. The Ebattled magazine you I hear about every once in a while. in battle in, you know, the magazine showing why we still have a magazine My first question for you How didid someone who is such Porter someomeone who is so righteous in so many ways How did this person go to Texas Te C Oh there. Come on, Brian? I had my newsbrand voice on there. Ivy, you fooled me. You thought I was going high and mighty. You did the Steve Sarcesian, you know, just dis Texas tech thing, man. comeome on. comeome on. good folks out there. Let me ask you two real questions. and let's split this up because I think there's two things to talk about here. What did you think of the interview itself questions that Garcia Navarro asked I mean I thought it Garcia Nval did a really good job of comprehensive interview. I mean I'm sure there are people that will say that bias in some sort of way But I thought She did good follow ups, like asking for specifics on Barry Weiss injecting falhoods and bias into stories. Uh I thought she a few questions gave them the benefit of the doubt like just saying, Hey because she had not been trying to be fair to the administration Right? Like that's, you know given a bit of like getting Scott Pelly to consider the other side. So I thought she did a A very good job. What did you think? I agree. I was jealous really jealous of that interview. She good questions and she did something that was really smart, which was she simplified her questions Sometimes you have somebody in the chair like Tucker Carlson who was being interviewed by her not that long ago where I think you need to kind of figure out Step one, step two, step three. Oh, he's going to say this. so I need to come back here In this case, she didn't outsmart herself questions were very basic. This is a guy with a story to tell. He had not told it yet There were some specific things to ask about like what Bry Weiss had tried to do to one of his stories, something he' nodded at in one of those memos that came out of CBS News during all this. Man, if you write email ats CBS, just assume that's going to come out that it's going to be for the eyes of the public. Want to get S baro, that's going be printed by Ben Mullen or somebody else Second question, what did you think of Scott Pelly during the interview Uh, ye, I He was good as well that, you know, u It was I thought that he sounded reasonable. He sounded like if I worked at sixty minutes Um, I would have been proud to have worked with that guy Um I did think he came off as a little naive at some points and maybe even overly generous at others. Uh, I mean I think that Barry Weiss's stewardship of CBS Um The reasons people have complaints about it has not very much to do with inexperience. Um I think that's a part of it, but I don't think that's even primarily why what's happening there. But you know, yeah, That's what I thought. What did you think? Let's play a little sound and I'll tease out some thoughts here Uh We'll start with this clip, Scott Pelly. What metaphor would you use to describe the feeling of being fired and seeing sixty minutes put in danger. Well, if we want to talk about it at an emotional level The best thing that I can imagine in terms of describing it is that it's like your spouse was murdered. Dramatic metaphor I mean, he says it's a dramatic layater too. I Well waitw, I probably would not have used that. I don't think that's a good metaphor. but go ahead. playay a little bit more of the clip. We'll get back to that There's some moments of the day, I feel fine There are some moments of the day that I just frankly fall apart When I least expect it. Not that there's any particular trigger I do want to be clear that I do not feel sorry for me I don't care about me I'm fine. care about these people that I left behind people who are still there and this institution that I love so much You know, if somebody who's been laid off and had to leave a couple places And I've never worked anywhere for as long as he's worked I did it The next the day after you've left your job and you're trying to log into a computer or you want to go look at your emails And it it's really sad. Like you can it's it really is sombber. I can only imagine Um, what he felt U realizing that he wasn't going to be able to walk back in that office again thirty seven years, that's a long time Yeah. He said he's been married forty two, like as a way of like, sort of Sing how hard that's To give thirty seven years of your life to one place and to have it ended like that. Um I can understand. I mean, I still think saying watching your spouse be murdered is overstating it a little bit. I can get feeling very devastated about it Here's what hit me is and I had a friend a friend of ours who texted me and thought it was really, really overwrought. and I think some people that evenven sympathize with Sott Pelly, certainly no fans of Barry Weiss thought that To me, it hit me because Pelly is the kind of guy who would never use language like that. hm on sixty minutes He would never say Donald Trump is murdering the federal government He would never say Donald Trump is incompetent And yet here he is, a guy whose whole job is not to be anguished on camera, looking anguished And you know, there's a little bit of The man from TV in there, and just the way he talks and even the way he emotes It was powerful to me And I think if you listen to this whole interview, what he's most upset about is Tanya Simon, the executive producer being fired and the way she was fired She's, as he says, CBS royalty in a way. herer dad Bob Simon was correspondnder for sixty minutes covered all these wars and then died in a car accident on the west side of Manhattan hereere's this woman and she's like basically told to get out and leave and, you know To me, there's a real human story there that goes beyond Berry and sixty mininutes and television, which is Here is this person who was just told to get out and they're gone peopleeople won't explain to me why. They fired Yeah, they won't tell me why And that's why I stood up in a meeting and asked That is something I've been wanting to get an answer to you know, again, by conventional television metrics, the ratings are up She's doing a good job. And and that really hit me, you know, on a personal level. I understand his performance involved in he's a television guy and all that kind of stuff, but I don't know, it resonated with me You know, it does to me. and I bet a lot of people that listen to this show. Uh or people in general. they can relate, I mean That is the story of America right now. There's a lot of people just getting laid off You walked out of their office And there may not be a good reason to's like, well, AI has replaced you or, you know, it's youar you read a story about your CEO getting some sort of ridiculous bonus. And they got to lay you off. And it's something that we all can sort of relate to Um so yeah, that so it's within that spirit that I could understand why he may have felt that way Uh because again, I've not worked anywhere thirty I've barely, you know, I've barely lived that long, right So I can totally imagine having get ripped out. I mean, D if you ever there' sometimes like Be in town somewhere you've worked. and want to go by that newsroom and just realize, oh, I can't do that. It just doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. It's not there or whatever. I had to leave for whatever reason. and that can be that can be really depressing. He got some we got some answers on what He said, he meaning Pelly said that Barry Weise did one of his stories. He had implied that she tried to inject some changes into it. Ag, last minute changes, just like happen with Seacot He was doing a piece about Minneapolis. This was episode eighteen of this last season, which ran on feebruary first protests there about the killing of Renneee Good He said that he got word filtered back to him that Barry wanted to prrotesters in the peace to look more violent wanted Renee Good is described as driving toward the officer that wound up shooting and killing her and he was like, we're not doing this and that almost the show in jeopardy because those changes came so late on a Sunday Yeah This is not a piece really. Let me just rewrite the lead one more time. Oh ye stuff has to be locked Here's what Pelly says The real problem Berry Weissays Bigger problem, Lulu, frankly is not any kind of political influence The problem was the incompetence You don't break a deadline. Now this is four hours after episode of sixty Minutes came within nineteen minutes of not making air the entire hour of sixty minutes. Do you buy that? I mean, my whole thing is like, I almost think we're people are outsmarting themselves trying to figure out what the real problem with Berry Weiss is It doesn't have to be one thing It can be that she's part of this effort with David Ellison to get CBS news more in tune with the Trump administration It can also be that she's injecting her own politics into CBS newews And it can be managerial and confidence It doesn't have to just be one. It's not like, oh, it's actually this. What if it's all of them? Yeah, Is that worse It probably is alls I mean Yeah, because obviously she was put there with some sort of a mandate because you don't You don't bring her in unless you want you have something specific in mind because she's just she was not a TV person. But also People that have worked with her and there's been stories about how the management of the free press She's not a good manager, right? like or that it's something that she's still learning to do and has really strong opinions. learning It's just so great. like you're like, Well, you're running CBS newews, you know, You a attention course on how to manage people here. It's kind of too late for that, right? I mean, bro, I just I can the thing that I always am just sort of Slamics dies not having any experience whatsoever in the medium and going to Scott Pedy and being like, Uh no, do it this way. and I've got some ideas for this and in a program that is successful not even a you know, just not even feel a little bit chastened or humbled by being, you know, in the presence of these reporters that have done the job that you don't even know how to do and that she feels comfortable doing that. So yeah, man. I think it's like you said, I think it's all of these things and maybe if he had more time to think about it, maybe it would come out. That was his first interview. So maybe he's still sort of sorting through, right One more cut from Pelly here Garciina Nevar did something smart when she read a comment that Donald Trump had made about Pelly And Trump made these comments to Miranda Deivine on the podcast Pod Force One sure you're big fan. Hear Trump's comments. Pell' is stiff and he's afraid and he's part of this, you know gang of crooked, stupid people that don't care about our country Pelly addressing the latter charge I've never worn the uniform But I've been in combat for this country In Afghanistan Andrew Rock Wait. been shot at spent nights in fox holes filling up with water in the desert I'm not aware president of the United States has ever done any of those things for his country Please correct me if I'm wr You become a journalist because you love the First Amendment You become a journalist because you love the country And while all the other descriptions that the president used about me might be applicable Very good dramatic News man build and punctuate ending How't he know? Oh, that's pure news man in a little grandiose, but at the same time like sometimes you just have to come out and say, I promise. the reason I'm not doing this job is because I hate America Oh yeah, I mean, And yeah, if I had been in a fox hole in the desert filling with water, I would be offended at the idea that somebody would accuse me of that. So I totally get it. You know, one thing I wanted to ask you though, Brian, because I know you said you were jealous, right? And I told you this. u off air before I was like Man Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I think you're one of the best interviewers in the business like, you know, there's not three people better than you at this. What would you have asked Poy? Two things One was He said he'd never heard of Barry Weiss when she was appointed to run CBS News Did't know much about Nickbilt neither I would have liked to have known. this If you did not know who she was, truly didn't know who she was Mbe you're just saying that because that makes her look bad. But if you really didn't know who she was shouldhouldn't you have taken your celebrated reporting skills to find out who she was? if only to protect yourself and protect your television program Mhm because television. political game M. Mike Wallace R IP knew that. Morley Safer RIP knew that Pelli knows that We'd love to think in journalism You do great work You do it the right way and you will be rewarded with money and opportunities bullshit. That's not how any part of this business works And for him to sort of You know, and again, I don't know if it's because the story sounds better. We're like, I'm giving these people the benefit of the doubt. I just wanted to know what plans they had for CBS News Maybe he truly thought that If you did, you were leaving yourself very vulnerable Be these are people who have never worked in this business before. They were coming in. they had a mandate to change things. And to me, I would have been like, shouldn't your instincts as an investigative reporter tell you? I need to know more about these people. I need to set up the firewall right now and not wait for her to be sending me notes about how to describe the direction of Renee Goods tires That's number one. The second thing is this is he said, you know, I didn't want to be fired. When we heard about him standing up at that meeting and going toe toe with Nick Bilton and we were like, well, he was he was done, right? He's lighting himself on fire to defend his colleagues to make a point but he's out the door. And he was like No I actually still wanted to work at sixty minutes. I mean To me, I think I would have just wanted to push back on that a little bit. And also asked a question that I think applies to Leslie Stall Bill, Whitaker and Joh Worthheim too who announced on Friday that they're coming back to the show, which is Aren't you worried that your're gravitas be used as a shield byy Barry Weiss and Nick Bilton, while they do whatever they want to this program Because guess what? There can be other correspondents, maybe four more correspondents on that show. They're going to take the notes from Barry Wees Nick Bilton, he's going to take the notes from Barry Weiss. So you could wind up being on a show that's not really sixty minutes. Y Scott Pelly Aura could be used to make people think It's still the old sixty minutes And I think I would have wanted to explore that a little Yeah, I mean Nick Bilton, if I'm not mistaken in one of those emails to the staff there indicated that they've already got correspondence in mind C can't wait meet these new correspondents. becausecause Pelly said, o, then I know that some of us are going to get fired then, right Um And so yeah, like those people are going to do what Barry Weiss tells them to do and Nick Bilton tells them to do because they owe their careers to to those people. Yeah. And Yeah. they're being brought in for that purpose Like you're not going to bring in somebody else who's going to ignore you That's not. Why would she do that They're never having a staff beeting like that again, right? Like they've already they're definitely not going to bring in anybody who's inclined to embarrass them publicly in this way again, right Um, Id far be it for me,m not revered or you know, talented or whatever enough to have been Leslie Stahall Mr. Whittaker, Mr. Worth off that. But No, I was it, but I would not you know Um, I understand that they want to protect the sixty minutes in the brand or whatever, but I think they should take a cue from what Scott Pelly said That's over. sixty minutes is is not is not that It's being murdered It's dead Yeah and I understand it's hard. It's easy for us to say like, hey, go quit your job And also I do think I believe all those people looking at the people who are not on the air and being like, I want to protect the people who are here Yes, I want to do everything I can And if I they have if we leave, what if they just fire everybody? you know, like what if they bring in everybody? you know, from the PAs to the producers and everybody What if they're all new? What if they're all part of this new regime and like I understand that. I totally understand that. but I think that Tension between that between ing them and giving cover to something you do not agree with journalistically and ideologically and everything else That's an interesting. that's the where I' want to probe just a little bit We'll talk about Grand Plata before we get out of here Oh man I want to run over our studio time in here because I'm in the bigig studio today and I bet there's a, you know, famous person coming. Let's thoses We've already had Spielberg. I don't think he's coming back. No. I think we got our content from from the Maestro It's primary day for Platinner in Maine He's probably going to win Yeah I guess you know, Janet Mill was still on the ballot. That what a weird situation that was where she suspended her campaign But then somebody came forward and said, you know You know, she didn't she didn't quit the campaign. She just suspended it so you'relcome to vote for her because she's going to be on the ballot, even though she stopped running for Senate Graam Platinner's got a lead. been two major stories about him, onene in the Wall Street Journal by Tari partarty and Aaron Zitner that Zitner that came out may thirtieth Days after Graam Platinner announced his main Senate bid, they write His wife informed the campaign about a potential problem she had previously discovered on the oyster farmer's phone sexually explicit texts with several women according to people familiar with the matter Platner and Amy Gurnner were married in twenty twenty three ose messages were found by them and dealt with in whatever way they want to deal with them earlier in their marriage Fast forward to twenty twenty five and Amy is coming forward to the campaign and saying, hey. This is out there Is this something that's going to come up Times followed up on that And quoted several people. Lindseay Feiffeld, who is a conservative in Virginia was probably the most profound of these accounts. And she said that Platinner quote regularly grabbed her by the shoulder, sometimes hard enough to leave marks Also described an incident where he twisted her arm behind her back, shoved her into a bedroom and held the door closed from the other side so she couldn't get out quoting there from the piece. Platner denied those claims She also had a really interesting thing where Platner knew about his Nazi tattoo before he claimed he knew it was a Nazi tattoo and even had a message, I it was in a group chat. August where She was telling her friends Pner, quote has a Nazi tattoo on his chest This is before Platinner said he realized that had happened and then had it covered up. Yeah, but she somehow had a message Knowing that when Platin was asked about that by Chris Hayes was like Well, no he shouldn't tell me She knew I mean what the tattoo was Anyway What in the world does this do to the main centerase I know Maine is a small state, man. There really isn't anybody else. You know I mean? like I think there's that thing. that's one thing that occurs to me. But the other thing about this is that Um I'm just surprised people are pretending to care about this stuff anymore Donald Trump does reset the parameters so much we live in a whole new world, man. Ken Paxton is his wife divorced him on biblical grounds. And it didn't really matter. And he's been like we don't I guess maybe because Democrats are more inclined, they feel the need to police themselves in a way that seems almost quite Like of of the Gary Hart era politics. and I just feel like We're way past that now. Like noope I can't believe people are pretending to give a shit about this. but maybe the Maybe the people that have to vote for Graham Platinner to care about it, I feel like it's necessary to care, but I'm just surprised. That's a distinction I made. There's somebody in Maine who cares about this Yeah probably And there's probably people that are like, shouldould I vote for Susan Collins or Graham Platinner? I think those people exist. They seem like they exist in Maine of all places Yeah, and they are generally sorting out what to do with this. There's also a media element to this, which all these people who exist among us now in podcast land who are like, my job is to get Democrats elected And it's just fascinating to hear them process this you come at this not from a moral standpoint, but just like we want to win the election standpoint. I mean, it's you're like, well, do you care or not You know, what and what do you make of this? You know, what look there's all this reporting out there now This is somebody again, I went back and listen, I don't know why I did this. And I don't know why we pick on Tommy Vieder on this podcast, but I went back and listened to the interview he did with Platinner This is after the Reddit post had come out It's also the first I think shirtless Platinner pick and maybe there's more now. kind don't know where we are, but just listening him do that interview and just like,. you know, these people making so much a deal out of this. but this is what happens, you know, when you filter candidates through people who want to help candidates get elected rather than than journalists who are like, I'm just going to go try to find out who these people are and what they're about Yeah, and I also think that it's going to hurt. We're going to see more of this going forward because I mean I mean, because yeah, you've got these dueling u These dueling initiatives, right? They like you want to see people hire We want to see people elected. and also it's just like, hey, look, I just want to win. But people are like, no, I really care about this and we need to make sure that this person is airtight. But I don't think that that's almost futile Because so much of life is happening online now Yeah Like I did all these pictures of him They will never know what I was doing in college. Like you know what I'm saying? you know, what All that There's no pictures of it. There's no text There's no internet stuff. That's not going to happen, but the thing that is interesting to me And I'm trying to remember Can you tell me how many stories you've ever seen where people have had to Interview all of their girlfriends before like in absence of like a sexual assault claim, right? Beuse sometimes like people would do, o, his relationship to the womom, but there's There's not a sexual assault claim here. Now there is an allegation of violence. so I don't want to downplay that. but' Have you how often have you seen that? It was it was really st The time story especially was very, very unusual say Yeah I I felt like girlfriend. You felt like a button got pushed when the journal got their story out because they had been talking to those women for a number of months Yeah. And then all of a sudden, well, that's out there. So now here let's now this is a this is a topic and let's talk about it. And to me, it's like You know, what's fascinating is this campaign has so many strands running through it from mental health you know, somebody coming back from war authenticity Your point earlier about Trump resetting the parameters on what is or isn't acceptable behavior You know, his sell to the people of Maine has been, I came back as this very damaged person for war. This is what we' disillusion damage. you know, what you see on Reddit was that person and I've been working on that And I'm not perfect now, but I'm better and I'm better now Right. And this is and is a mark of that I am a real person and I'm actually talking about this rather than pushing it all away. Well, now we have even more stories that he can talk about or not talk about. I guess he gave the interview to Chris Hayes, who was also kind of, by the way apologizing, you know, like, oh, we usually we're on here talking about income inequality, but I have to ask you only comeome you just asking the questions Yeah, I mean, presumably in Maine there's not very many voters So like, you know, a few ten You know, dozen thousand folks can make a real difference here, but I I imagine The Susan Collins campaign probably was going, you know, didn't seem like it had a lot of juice this all seems to have really helped that campaign out, I imagine Absolutely. Oh my gosh. I mean, I think they're, u And then that'll be interesting to see like what the results are tonight? And I guess there's there's a plan B where you could kind of push him out by July if he agreed to be pushed. M more to talk about on this. But let's get out of here. Here is our special guest Ryan Reynolds here from MintMobile with a message for everyone paying Big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just fifteen dollars a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile d. com slash switch Upfront payment of forty dollars for three month plan, equivalent to fifteen dollars per month required, intro rate for three months only, then full price plan options available.ax and fees extra. SFful terms at MintMobile.ot com All right, Michael Steeel is one of the anchors of MS Now's The Weeknight which you can watch on weeknights att seven PM Eastern time. in his pre television life Steele was liieutenant governor of Maryland. He was chairman of the RNC, among other jobs We're happy to have him here, Michael, welcome to the press box Hey, it's great to be with the fellows in the press box. All right. Nice to see you guys. Thank you so much, you know, I appreciate it Cing on Five months until the midtermss, Michael Yeah. As you look around, what do you see Democrats doing right? and what do you see Democrats doing wrong U what I see them doing right is They've won thirty seven special elections. U They beat my record in the midterm, as a matter of fact. I think I topped out at thirty five when I was RNC chairman in that two thousand u nine, ten cycles. So they they have been able to pull together a very unique narrative around affordability I think they should continue to lean into affordability Um what I see them doing wrong is sometimes they have a tendency to get in their own way overthink the problem that's in front of them And the only problem in front of them is how many seats Can we pick up U and and so stay focused on the end game. In fact a couple of weeks ago and I mentioned this on our show. you know, and Simone of course gave gave me the look, Oh there you go I going after the Democrats. I'm like, I'm just trying to save you from yourself. But you know, the reality of it is they they have started to drift off of the affordability issue to to lean into corruption because, you know, Trump had done something else stupid and, you know, they wanted to you know, sort of level up the sheer corruption of it. And yes, that we know we have a very corrupt president in the White House. I mean, that's That's obvious on so many levels in so many ways But my argument was don't now put up a different narrative because corruption is in the eye of the beholder. number one. Okay.. And you know, you may think, you know Building a monument to yourself and having other people pay for it, but you give them a contract on the back endnd for the money for the check they just wrote to build the thing that you tell everybody is privately funded uh is is corruption, but You know what? someone else may not And so it gets a little bit weedy and so you want to stay on the top line of the thing that people know and they experience it. what are they experiencing, fellas? They're experiencing five dollar gasoline They're experiencing the price of beef in homage to Simone. who's tracking the price of beef daily. And now that you've got this damn flyworm that's going into beef and eating up the beef. Oh Lord, I can I can't wait til we get on get on talking about that Cost to people is what's in front of them. Now if you want to talk about corruption, and I think to a degree you should What I would do is what you know, some of the strategies I employed in twenty ten is I'd make the other thing hide into the thing that I'm pushing. So if you want to talk about corruption Every time People hear you mention the word corruption. You know what they think of They think of paying high gas prices because of that corruption I can't afford to do X, Y, and Z because of Trump's corruption. In other words, take that piece and say, this is what a president is doing instead of focusing on the things that are important to you. he's off paddting his own pockets in the pockets of his family in the pockets of his friends. Meanwhile, you're paying five dollars worth of gas. And so you narratively connect people to another storyline but you do so in a way that every time they hear the bottom line or the key word or whatever They think about the fact that This is happening I'm in this situation because of this thing that they're doing You may not know this, Michael. We're Texans and so the price of beef and barbecue is very near and dear to our heart. Yes inde. Yes indeed. But you know, speaking of the things that You think the Democrats are doing wrong. You were also really critical of the DNC's decision to release that twenty twenty four autopsy. So as someone who was the former leader of the RNC, how would you have handled that sort of report I would have thrown in the trash can and moved on. Well, first off, I never would have I never would have ordered it. You know what the hell the problem is When I came into the RNC, I did not spe need to spend a million dollars to know that we couldn't speak to black people, brown people, gay people, white some white even poor white people. couldt we couldn't speak to them I didn't need to spend a million dollars to tell me that our fundraising was out of whack. I didn't need a million dollars to tell me that thirty eight out of the fifty state parties didn't have a website that was functional Right? So I'm going to spend the million dollars on the things I need to spend the money on And so this whole thing that, you know, oh, we got to sit back and be reflective about what we did wrong and we got to pay some consultant to come in and tell us what we did wrong To me is nonsensical. Call me old school Okay, if you want to do it, let's play So they go out and they spend this money and they do this report And they come back with a pile of crap. Why is it a pll of crap? Because everyone said it was a pile of crap And in fact, you then put it out with all the mistakes in it, the bad punctuation, the misspelled words and all of that All of a sudden you're getting in your own way and you're getting in your own way narratively. And so now the Republicans go, oh, let's talk about their autopsy report. We don't want to talk about what Donald Trump did today We want to talk about the autopsy report And And so I think from a number of those standpoints It becomes vitally important to recognize value of the saying and whether or not that becomes a distraction But don't you think that the Democrats have a legitimate like dispute about what's actually wrong though h because it seems like E I'm not going to dispute what the report said, but did you really need to spend all that money to know that Right. Well you really? I mean, and the thing about it was, what was it dissecting It was dissecting Kamala Harris's campaign What does that have to do with the DNC? Well, they didn't talk about now right? But they didn't run her campaign This one What they ran were party operations on the ground across the country. What they ran were fundraising operations that funneled money support the candidate who happened to be running for president and as well as the candidate happened to be running for Gvernor or Phill in the bllank state. All right Focus on your mission presidential campaign and all of that operation had nothing to do with the DNC. So sitting there and talking about how Kamala Harris ran her campaign That's not valuable to the DNC Because guess what? Kamala Harris may not be the nominee of the party in twenty eight. If she is, okay, then maybe hand her that autopsy But if she isn't What did you spend all that money for Focus on your mission. Your mission as a party is to do two things And as a party chairman, exactly these two things raise money and win elections One election just the presidential election But every election in which you have candidates on the ballot. And so you need to look at how operationally you do that And so that means in this county over here, where there are, you know, six hundred thousand people and we have a candidate running for the state legislature, What's our operation? What did we do right? What did we do wrong that we support that candidate was our state was a county party well organized to do what it needed to do. How did we support our county party the state partarty support the county partarty How did how did all of that get supported by us So yeah, I hear it. I get it. I understand it the focus on a presidential election so narrowly as to sort of opine about you know, what Kamala didn't do and what they campaign didn't do right and and the and the whole all the drama around Joe Biden leaving. What that to do with the DNC Speaking of running a party, when you were chairman of the RNC, you were witness to the birth of a couple of different ideological movements, if we can call them ideological Which one of these do you think had a more profound effect on the direction of Republican politics tea party or birtharism Well Oh neeither one actually. Um, because the the the rot that been metastasized into mangas started long before Tea Party in Berttharism U It goes back to the nineteen thirties The Republican Party for throughout its modern day history has struggled with episodes of fancing itself as a populist nationalist party Uh it dealt it danced a little bit on that pinhead in the nineteen thirties in response to DR because they had no response Typically, the party kind of falls in a red hole and it's got no response to a big policy idea The newew Dal great society Um civil rights. And the irony with civil rights was we were once the champion of civil rights. That's kind of how the party was formed. Right back in eighteen fifty four Uh, But the, you know, so that that rot was it was long there Now, you know Birtharism represents without Trump, there is no birtharism Let's be clear. not manifested the way it was and definitely not as long as it went on I mean I had conversations with Donald Trump directly. I said, Dude, why are you doing this? You just need to stop. It doesn't, you know, he doesn't do it because it works And that there told me a lot about Donald Trum So surmise pretty quickly. but a lot about the party. and what it was willing to do for power. And the sad irony is once it got the power, once it gets the power, it doesn't know how to govern I mean George Bush skewed that process, askewed that sort of baseline ugliness and tried to reform U immigration together the legislation did the hard work of bipartisanship And the hard, right idiocracy killed it Flash forward. Gang of eight again pulled together after great strife, concern and consternation in the country, quite frankly, with immigration Our borders being overrun and no real controls and no real effort by an administration finally got together Um And and came up with a plan and Donald Trump want it somethingomet to run on So the hard idiocracy killed it. Um Healthca I still find it ironic how Republicans talk about Obamacare since they seem to forget that Obamacare was Romney Care, which was, guess what? the heritage plan in the nineteen nineties That was a Republican plan Obama took a Republican plan and actually implemented it, which is something Republicans couldn't do. And then they got pissed off about it and then wanted to go after him personally When you can't govern, that's what you do And here we are sitting today with an administration they can't do jack except go to a war that nobody wants nor understands why we're there. president has time to go to a N game and have and have people who are supposed to be negotiating peace the game instead of in the Middle East Yes,'s time to go to, you know, you know, says, oh, I can't I can't, I can't go to my son's wedding because we got to do war this weekend. But he went and play golf. so You know Priorities That's what the party has allowed itself to be led by And it will continue to flounder until a leader steps up and does wonderful scene out of Oh was that movie with Cher U which she snacks the crap out of Nicholas Cage None struck Mon Straght snap out of Yes, s ye. Snap out of it Right? Until that happens This thing remains adrift unfocused U undisciplined Ireverent. Irreligious disrespectful without without form or substance when it comes to policy So Michael, given so you said the rot starts in nineteen thirty. That means it goes almost a hundred years. This is a century of this And it's curdled into something that you consider to be a hard rightite idiocracy So Why not just become a Democrat? Like do you still have hope because an get back together either. So I might as well stay where I am and fight through this. So so you believe that the GOP can like So what is what is realistically? would it take for them to turn back from this? likeike you think just not this. this this form of the party is done. It's I mean, people are sitting back thinking we're going to go back to the days of Bush and Reagan. That's that's not happening. What what I argue for at this point is a reimagination of the core Republican values that have remained important where you're talking about, you know, entrepreneurism, free markets, you're talking about the rule of law and respect, not not a corrupted sense of the rule of law where you know, I have the rule and the law. you know, because I make the rules because I make the law U but that understands and appreciates the dynamism and popular popularism of this populous nature of this country. and is willing to lean into that Um, a party that was, you know, that Born out of the idea that the words of our Constitution and all men created equal meant something off from a whig party that refused to acknowledge that or was afraid to lean into that And they boldly move in moved in that. and on the heels of all else went to war to preserve a union over this idea and that we could preserve this union while freeing the slave. And then once we did that, we would put into our law, into our Constitution the rights of those men to be free That's the thirteenth, fourteenth and fifteenth Amendment So That that value proposition for me U of of freedom and liberty as well as recognition of how our country has evolved and changed still matters Um The party was not formed to over issues related to I guess abortion or transgender or that's those are policy prescriptions. Th are Things you go back and forth and every community is going to have a point of view and a national government sometimes weighs and it creates a federal law to sort of get everybody to settle down and say, y'all, we going do it this way Right But that's fundamentally not what partarty was found. The partarty wasn't founded as a Christo nationalist partarty America wasn't founded as a Christian nation. I know that upsets a lot of people when they're hear, but go back and pick up the damn history book for once in your life and read the damn thing and understand it. And don't you don't read me, just read the federalist papers, just read the founders You know you know, I mean, come on I mean, it so if we stop if we stop with this sort of you know, highly offended person. Oh my God, I'm so offended because Stop it You talk about the ultimate snowflakery. It's just just it just drives me nuts. So I don't I don't need that in my life anymore. I joined the party exactly fifty years ago this August And and I've been in the fight there's some good stuff, some bad stuff, some ugly stuff, some highly racist stuff. all of it B been there, done that. I know what it is And I accepted it for what it was, but I always believed that I could assume a position, a role that would help move the party forward because I believe fundamentally that it had something of value to offer U I think has corrupted that to the point where there is very little left of value to offer. So now we need to reimagine something else But how do you do that? Do I do that by going and standing outside the tent and trying to craft that? I figured I was here first. I'm gonna stay here for a little while longer until I'm ready to go on my terms Um And the Democrats have just never spoken to that for me. Um And and I worked with a lot of Democrats. I endorsed Joe Biden in the last in twenty I endorse Kamala Harrison twenty four not because I believed in their views on policy X, Y or Z, or that you know, somehow I now approve of open borders and all the other BS that would come out of Republicans were too damn afraid to acknowledge that the guy that they hitched their wagon to was it was the cause of the death of the party But I did so because of the fundamental belief in the foundation of the country and what it stood for and that in this phase, there is no policy. there is no position that is greater than salvaging Constitution, the rule of law and our democracy And when you have a threat to that, we all should take responsibility in defending And that's not party That's country. and You know Nationalists call themselves nationalists for a reason Right? It's about how they view the country. They just use the politics party to get there So why are you so upset when I take the position that yeah, I'm supporting the country from the right side Right? And I'm standing with people who stand with me in that fight And so that for me is not a complicated question. never has been And it's sad when I see so many others Certainly those serving in office right now seem to be frustrated, the wrong word because they're not frustrated U seemed to be so eager, so quick to capitulate to make the excuse. not to do the right thing Because o, I can't vot for a Democrat Oh, we we can't let we can't let, you know, Haikim Jeffrees get a win. Well, you know If if the win is for the people who need the win, why is that a problem You know, give the American people a win for once because God knows Donald Trump is get fatten being Very wealthy off of off of the pain that a lot of American people are feeling right now and he's using the government against us to do it Michael, let me ask you about another figure from the Cervative past Rush Limbaugh was a huge broadcaster in his time and I think predicted in a lot of ways, the way that right wing media was going to go What was your relationship like with Rush I actually had a very good relationship with Rush. And Rush had done a number of events for me when I was state partarty chairman. U back in two thousand, and when I was here in the county as a county chairman U And I got in no rush through my work at Fox when I was when I went to Fox after I left the Lieutenant governor's office. I worked there for a couple of years. So I got to know Roger and and the crew and Megan and don't recognize any of them Um of that old crew U Limbu, look Limbau was the guy who gave voice to a lot of young conservatives such as myself back in the early eighties that really didn't have an outlet. We didn't have a platform. We didn't hear our voices reflected in news broadcasts in the nightly news or in newspapers. And to the extent that it was, it was often our viewpoints were criticized or demean Um, and and and so people need to understand Why this happened in the first place. because when uncle, you know, I was thinking Uncle Milty, but that's not Walter Kronkeite. you know, when he got gave us the news and, you know You know, that's the story, you know, everybody believed it His words And so what a lot of conservatives back in the day recognized was, hey Well, we have a different point of view on this policy. We have a different perspective on the war. We have a different perspective on the economy Um you know What about us? It wasn't just what was happening on Capitol Hill with elected officials whichich is why what happened in ' ninety four with with the contract with America and the new Gangrich Revolution was so indifference because so so important because that was finally the revolution that had begun in media with talk radio reaching the floors of the United States Congress U, and that's where it began. That revolution doesn't happen without talk radio, doesn't happen without Rush Limbaugh And you could, you know, not like it, you know and think it's all bad, but it wasn't all bad Um, the contract of Americ with America was a was a seventy seventy percent approval with voters out there. Voters like the idea of what Republicans were proposing at the time But that voice that Rush offhered up with talk radio created a seabed What has become unfortunate as we've seen with a lot of things and we can, you know, you can go into examples and details Um Things get taken over. becausecause people show their just how human they are cororruptible they are. Their greed sets in. their hunger. I mean, suddenly, think about it. if you were on the outs and now you're on the in and people are listening to you, you're getting followers which weren't followers in. They were listeners back in the day. and you're getting all of the you know sponsors and coming to sponsor your show All of these things build up. your head grows and you want more and you get more All of that feeds a narcissism that takes over and it becomes corrupting And and that, you know, I saw that happen with A lot of things that I've been involved with and that I've not been involved with over the years. I remember Occupy Wall Street started at the same time as the Ta Party movement, right? Y'all remember occupy Wall Street? What happened to it It got corrupted. How to get corrupted? because people instead of understanding what est was about and actually living up to the guiding idea of the protests got into these camps into these little villages that were being created and started robbing each other and assaulting each other and fighting each other and creating all kinds of havoc U and that became the distraction I knew the tea party was done when I went to a rally twenty twelve twenty thirteen long after I had left the RNC And I saw my first Nazi sign. Nazi sign and I was like, Oh, okay, there we are Um, and everybody look, I had one guy when I was chairman U who was I think it was chair he was the chairman either Chicago or or Illinois of the Tea Party movement And so we were, you know, getting getting ready to set up our big national push at the end of the twenty twenty ten cycle. So in that fall, I was going to go in and rally the troops. He didn't want me to come in You know why? Becauseuse he won all the money for himself. And I was like, dude, that's not what this is about I'm not here to raise the mind, I'm here to raise votes But he wasn't about raising votes. He wasn't about making the case thing had already begun to turn in that instance and I saw examples of that. So All great voices, all great movements start out a certain way And if you are not able to sustain that initial energy, that initial purpose, it becomes corrupted. And when it does, You are U So I actually have to ask you this then. So If given all of that that you like you've seen this, you've seen the change of the party. you've seen this curdling Can a responsible American cast a vote for Republican anymore right now Yeah, I mean, and that's that yes, it can because not all Republicans are Maga, not all Republicans are like the crazy stuff that we have to deal with every day There are Republicans who are running who are, you know, in your legislature, or in your city council U maybe the mayor of your town, who are good people I mean, I get a lot of phone calls and emails from from elected officials and candidates partarticularly guys who want to who want to get into elected life who are trying to navigate, how do I navigate Maga? Their problem is I can't I won't survive a primary So, you know you know, where people are allowed to U you know, switch over and and, you know, like in Virginia where you have open primaries and you just you just go vote. or at other places where you're allowed to you know, switch U your party affiliation and you go vote in a Republican primary or a Democratic primary. Um Go and support those candidates, get them through the primary so that you can support them in a general election U they're there. Um, it's just that, you know The narrative has been so consumed by one one one brush stroke that no one else You know there's anyone else out there like Michael who are those Republicans? Yeah, whoo are those Republicans that are running for office stand? Like you like going into these midterms and you're saying, okay, I believe in democracy I don't believe, you know, I would like the economy to turn around. I don't want to be at war with Orine Who is a Republican that you can look at on the ballot going into the bigid termms and say, I can feel comfortable voting for that person that they will not be corrupt I' not going I'm not going to speak to what you would be comfortable doing because I don't know what you'll be comfortable doing. What I'm saying more broadly to people is don't sit there and act stupid. That there that every Republican you know, you know a Republican in your office who's not Magas. And you probably said to that person more than once, Gee, why don't you run Right My point is everybody knows. that that's this is not be all in the end all there are that there are people out there who are going to put their names on ballots this November in your community. There are people who are on ballots in races right now. Some have quite frankly switched and run as are running as independents in primaries, in for gener in general elections Um Others have gone through the battle, did not win, but they're going to try to come back. Um next cycle, they're going to keep at it. My point being, you just need to look where you are and see the value set of those folks Look, John Cornyan is such such a Republican who was on the ballot Right There are a lot of John Corns who are running But what happened? A small percent a percentage What was the turn what was the turnout of Republican voters in in that Republican primary Prety small.re pretty vs right And that that's what's happening all across the country. And I keep telling people and my advice to the candidates is, look What you need to do is grow the rest of the primary voters electorate If you have a hundred take one hundred Republicans Right And only eighteen of those Republicans consistently vote in every Republican primary. You know those eighteen are going to show up You may get Five of those eighteen, six of those eighteen Right? But you still have eighty that you haven't touched Gon't talk to them Get them to go vote in the giveive them a reason to vote in the primary. G them excited again about the primary process and the opportunity to put someone like you on the ballot in the general election and to vote for you in the general election You know, so I think for me, that is a very important part of process. You know, naming an individual candidate is not going to do anything. What people needs to because you don't live there. You don't know that person. What I'm saying to people, look at the people in your own backyard, the Republicans that are already serving size them up Assess them for what they are. and I guarantee you, you'll find that most of them are not like the ones that you're reading about U or that you see sitting at a next game Last one for you, Michael, thought we'd get out of politics here for a second because I read that when you were out of college You wanted to be a Catholic priest Yes, and even entered a seminary Yes up to the Augustinian order. Augustinian order. What was the appeal of living the life of a priest? Oh service U It was I wanted to be a priest since I was in third grade. So it was something that was very much a part of Um my DNA in that sense. It was something I intuitively knew as a young kid Um But you know, you grow up, you got to go through the process. There were a number of times where I wanted to, I was going to enter a high school seminary and Priests in my parents were like, no, go to high school, Eience the world. Now again We're talking about a world that was changing. The Vican Vatican I had just uh been I had been around for at that at that point probably about Uh, years, you've had explosions culturally, politically, the war in Vietnam was winding down Wartigate Um, u had happened. So there was a lot of stuff like that So this idea when the pope had opened up the windows of the church to the world to then go go close yourself off to it at such a young age As the priest was explaining to me, didn't make sense. You need to understand what it is. you want to do and why and how you will serve And I did And so that got me all the way through college, but the Augustinians taught me in high school And I really leaned into Saint Augustine and Um hisis journey, his own personal journey Stain. Augustine was a flawed human being like all of us U Alphie would become a doctor of the church But before all that happened, his mama was trying to get him on the straight narrow between the concubines and the liquor and the wild living His mama prayed for him every day now. I didn't do any of that. Maybell would have whipped my ass. I'd been not bring some concubine up in the house No, that was not going to happen Um But I did appreciate very much that that human journey that led him u the church that led him to seek a deeper relationship and understanding with God U and that appealed to me and it still does. And so when I left graduated Hopkins My friends went off to med school and law school and all kinds of other wonderful careers. and I entered the Augustinian order and U started my my journey, went to Novishiate, received the habit, took from made promises of poverty, chastity, obedience And in that journey, in the course of that journey, that part of the journey, realized that God was calling me to a different life of service And I left right before simple vows. And u came back home and kind of got my head regrouped and into Georgetown Law School and the rest of they say has been crazy fun Um This is my final question, Michael because I mean, I'm a hop fan you know, as I'm a child of the hip hop generation. I remember When you at the RNC, you talk you you talked about uh It're taking Republicans not this. Yeah. Hip hop Republicans. Yeah. to cause a controversy at the time, but I don't know, I mean kind of feels like onald Trump may have actually sort of done that. I mean, if you just look But Donald Trump had always been Donald Trump has always been hip hop ajent. Donald Trump would know hip hop from a hip replacement. So let's let's just be honest about that. He's a user So he gets, you know, he'll get close and he'll do a great pretend like he knows what you guys are doing. Hey, I can, you know, offerow some gold l Ma sneakers and I'm all good, right? So that's Donald Trump. So That's what he was.. The brothers liked him because he would flash the cash and the gold and, you know that aspirational, I guess, back in the day But what I was talking about was something a little bit more connective and a little bit more personal because I understand and understood then and understand Hip hop to be something more than just music and it's something more than just culture is is economics is about how you create leed what I called called at that time legacy wealth. And we saw that generationally, you know, emerge as artists became mouls. And they they they began to take control of not just their music, but the enterprises they were running. And that for me was a very Republican thing. because it spoke very much to what Republicans talk about or at least My brain of Republic isn't Republicanism talked about was entrepreneurism, ownership. Right? Legacy well Something, you know, if the Rockefellers can pass it off generationally, so can we You know We we have we we have done so much for so many others. We built this country Right? We built Culture, music, all right U infrastructure, science, math, you know, we farmed your fields, we raised your kids And what do we have to show for it? pooor educational opportunities, inner city poverty. G through the list Out of all of that comes this idea, this music, this sound. Um, that yeah, you know White folks figured they could monetize Black folks knew better because they knew we owned it And so that's what I would that's what I would speak to U and make that as at the core of the conversation. about looking at u taking that that idea of ownership and legacy wealth and tie it to the kinds of policies that's going to protect them That's going to sustain that for you. So generationally, you can pass it on And the next generation in your family can live from the fruits of that and then grow and produce and pass on as well. So yeah, it was controversial. A lot of folks got a lot of joint Republicans didn't understand it. Democrats. didn't want to Um I didn't care. I made my point and it resonated U and I think it helped us win elections? yes, but I think it also, at least for a very short period of time, opened up some lanes of conversation which unfortunately, came closed and and, you know Here we are See Jakim Jeffreys tried to say Donald Trump couldn't tell Carl Anthony Towns from Carl Rove But I like hip hop from a hip replacement, much better. Yes what the future spepeaker of the House tried. Michael Stee can be seen and heard at seven PM Eastern time on the week night on MS now, along with Simone Sanders Townsend and starting june fifteenth Luke Russer Yeah, Luke is going to be a great addition folks. I gott to tune in. I'm telling you the first night's going to be it's going to be a hip hop rave. It's going to be a lot of fun. All right. Michael, thanks so much for coming on the press boox. All right guys. All right, that's a press box He's Joe Anderson I'm Brian Curtis This in magic by Bruce Baldwin came home to the press box just like Luke Russert's coming home to MS now H What are we David Schumemakers here on Thursday. G're going to hear his dulset tones Okay And we got another Dave Dave Weigl from Semaphore is going to be here on Thursday as well. Are you serious? Talking about whatever happens in Maine tonight I got all quotic kind of questions for Dave Wig. I saw Dave Wigl at Whole Foods in downtown Silver Spring and I didn't I wasn't going to say anything to him because I you know, I don't know if he knows who I am yeah, I' too bad that I couldn't have been here for that but maybe some other time. We'll be getting to know him on the u onn the serereial aisle here on Thursday I think we went a be I think we were like a soup or beans aule, something like that. It was very. It was an awkward place to meet somebody for the very first time Absolute. Joe,'ll you next wee with lkearm ts about the media Loo forward to