The Decline of the Washington Post

David Yeah I think we have to start with Game four of the NBA Finals. Anything else would feel slightly anticlimactic Barry Weiss, I'm sorry, you're in the sea block today You gotta talk basketball One of the craziest finals games you will ever see. The Kicks come back from twenty nine down in the garden to beat the Surs one hundred seven one hundred six There were times in that game where I felt like I was playing an EA sports video game from twenty five years ago. Yes. Remember you'd be playing and the computer would just not let you win? The Kicks were the computer. Every possession. It's like, o my God, they're gonna score every time down the floor Yeah Did you hang around for the whole game? I did. I mean, mostly because I was watching wrestling at the same time. This is my like admission. So I was just doing, you know, you flip back and forth. at every commercial break. Um When I went back, I think they were down by nine it was that point of the comeback and I was just sort of W went through a few seconds where I was trying to like You know, I shook my head to make sure that like I was remembering what I was remembering. I was like, okay, well, this is kind of a thing. And then at that point it was just downhill Um, It was it was definitely something to watch. And it's one of those things that you watch knowing you're, you know, it's you know they're telling you over and over again how rare it is, but you just know it in your bones and you know, from the announc' desk, it's like They must you know that they know it too Yeah, they' they're just going down in history here going to be one of the all time Kicks. This is probably going to be this might be a bigger moment than than winning the championship in terms of like what you, you know, the memorable memorability of what's going on television one hundred percent. I mean, any next fan you talk to We' tell you, we will take a title under any circumstances. But when you can marry A title, a probable title When you can marry a title to a game like that That's just about perfect been like that by OG andenobi. I mean, that is just stuff that runs on the highlight reel in your mind forever And also they we got these these Sinfeld tweets that' lead on arere you doing Seinfeld tweets in in in overword Twitter Joke of the week? No, we're not hit me What do we got? I mean, the best one was by somebody named Alex, Ajack ten thirty three who has eight hundred something followers but I already saw this reach we a million times. It's just Jerry and u And uh Yeah, it's justeinfeld and Larry David standing side by side on Pstro. Seineld's giving him a funny face And the text just says, The sppurs know how to take the lead, they just don't know how to hold the lead. and that's really the most important part of the lead the holding That's pretty good. Yeah The Nick winning an NBA title is not something that has ever happened in our lifetimes Those seventy and seventy three titles are just a bunch of black and white photos and grainy television footage M mean, Willis Reed, Dollar Bill Bradley, Dave D Bushher, Phil Jackson as a player And that is again, that is just stuff to me that felt old when we were kids It felt ancient to see them win a title now with at least Bradley still present Very, very cool from the Department of Epired NBA Analysis Remember the Wimby paradigm shift It's over. no one else will ever win a title As long as Wimby's in the league. everyverybody's got to trade for Ganis We must rearm. We must figure out what to do about this man Oh wait, a team might win a title with Mitchell Robins Yeah, that made me smile last night I also loveved Wimbie, the villain pointoing at his head like Bobby the Brain, Heenen and every evil wrestler ever when he got in Mitchell Robinson's head Mhm. That was funny And also, you know, the ideas people have about foreign born NBA players What they leap to is always what? They're so soft. Yeahah They're soft. Well Wimby. if he had shown any vulnerability at all, that's what people would have said, right? But He's like actually, I'm going to be the opposite. You're going to have to deal with this idea that I am an arch villain who's throwing Jalen Bruntce into the floor. They don't even call it. When he do that? Um alsoso, if you grew up in the nineties, Like you and I did. And you hear Nicks fans moaning about physical play. Yeah That's every Sunday, every Sunday, you get home from church. Toronto and BC and there you have, s were just beating the every. Yeah everyverybody remembered the theme music so well when they were like, you know, negotiating for for broadcast rights. They were they don't remember just Pat Rilly sending just the absolute An absolute mob hit out on everybody they played against. It was unbelievable. They're like, o those those spurs are being too rough on us The New York Nicks started like Pat Reiley in three power forwards. Like it was just to beat people up. That was Yes, everyone was Charles Smith at the same time and Charles Oakley I got some notes on the ESPN broadcast. We talk about the Richard Jefferson recognizes Tim Legler is calling the game with him challenge. thought that was a little better last night. Yeah He's actually recognizing that Legs was with him at the broadcast table. Yep There's a weird moment at the end of the third quarter where the Kicks were trying to go two for one And Jefferson wound up explaining to Mike Breen what a two for one was Mhm Breen was making a very normy sports point and I call it that because it's the kind of point I would make. Yeah. We' like the team goes to for one inevitably the first shot T turns out to be just a terrible shot. Right. They just throw away a possession so that they could get a position later Yes. Like That's what happens. If people don't know this, what essentially' like thirty seconds left You get up a quick shot. And even if the other team exhausts the entire shot clutch, ideally the point is you get two shots, they get one shot and you're just manipulating the clock to get to that point, But you're right. It's always bad. Also for those listening who are not our rage. We should identify. this is the only thing color commentator, Doug Collins seemed to know about basketball. They're not ending their quarters correctly. Yeah That was his obsession So Brean makes that point last night And then RJ says, Well, no, you know, it's But what is the thing is, Mike is they want to get the ball last Like Yeahah, I we understand what two for one means that like is challenging the premise of the two for one. Actually know there was actually an even a more perfect, much less maybe less significant moment when AJ Depanza Uh I guess in like the second quarter was on the screen because he was like covering the game as a student reporter or something like that. He was he was there with Adam Silver. And and Richard Jefferson said, Oh it's so great to see kids in the in the moment where they get drafted. You know they're talking about the draftting. He's like And I'm going to be there next week to I mean, we're going to be I mean Legs and I are going to be there next week to cover Oh ro probably written a solo act. Yeah play the final sequence of the game David, I've got some criticisms. I know this will shock you. Some knit picks, if you will Play callall or broadcast criticisms. Broadcast criticisms. Okay. All right, the nexts are down one. Uhm Brunson misses a shot ball gets batted down the floor and Deron Fox picks it up Mhm Okay Now again Sers are up one. shhot clock is off. If game ends, you win What does Dar and Fox do? He goes in for a layup. It gets blocked the Nicks get the ball back and they wind up winning the game on the tipppet Nobody on the broadcast mentioned that the Earon Fox screwed up Nobody mentioned it And when I rewatched the game this morning I saw something I didn't fully process in the moment, which is after Fox gets a shot blocked The next call time out And we went to commercial So they had a couple of minutes to process to reset And when we come back, they're talking about Jose Alvverado, maybe we went back court and all this stuff. They never mentioned it. Yeah Say what you will about Reggie Miller and People do Reggie Miller, I think would have gotten that. Sure. I think he would have gotten there that's like We don't have to spend a ton of time on this or The bigig things in front of us is the end of the game, but we have to say something about the fact that Darn Fox just made a terrible decision. And the fact that yeah, I mean, it' You leave it out, but I think maybe more significantly for them, you leave it to people to realize on Twitter too. you know, it's like when people this is a real time example of social media doing a better job than you because everybody thought about that immediately And um, they missed it Here's my another nitpick Okay, fast forward Five seconds and change left. Jalen Brunson misses what would have been the winning three pointer. OG and Aobbe Superman's out of nowhere tips it in Nicks are ahead. they win the game immediately after the Anenobi Tip We start looking for faces M because that's what a director does Yeah in that instance, they look for faces Well We saw a couple of nicks. then we went into celebrity Row and we saw John Calipari's face Adam Sandlers Jerry Seinfelds. We saw Taylor Swift and the girls. We saw John Mcnroe and Larry David M. You even saw David Zazlav We never saw Jayalen Brunson's face. Jayen Brunson, who just got bailed out by his teammate Never saw him We never saw the faces of any of the San Antonio sppurs who just got beaten in the most pull the heart out of your chest way possible Guys, Wimby is one of the most popular athletes on the planet right now. He was trying to guard Jayalen Brunson We didn't have a picture of his face after the ball went in Crazy. That's crazy absolutely crazy we're show all the celebrities. And I understand that's part of the MSG thing certainly been part of the story of the finals gives his shit what John Calliberry thinks. That's just Again elementary directing and producing is when you have a big moment, You show winners and you show losers Mhm winners and losers. In this case We went John Calipari, Jerry Seinfld Yeah. No, it's totally true. And it misleads you watching at home, I think subconsciously, almost you don't you mean the game wasn't over. And those are the Those are the photos that you are the images that you show afterfter you show the winners and losers, right? That's like the victory lab sccenes And yeah, it was a it was very Very weird to watch because yeah, there' there's nothing absolutely nothing of the players. You know, I wondered a couple of times separate from this throughout the throughout the series of Flake If the Knicks manage to win then the story for history will just be the incredible performance of Jail and Brunince Right I mean, I guess if Kat redefines his career in this series, that's something to her. I mean, I can't imagine there's any heights Anobbody could get to that would change his perception. But anyway Uh, shouldhn't they just have extra cameras on Brunson in general? Like every no everything he does, even more so than like Steve Nash in is prime, everythingthing that he does needs like an extra layer of dissection. Yes. And the way that he like The way that he just controls the paint as a six foot one dude, you know, and like every move that he makes I mean, I'm sure there probably are extra cameras and they're all they're all shooting and like K for whatever, you know NBA special will come out about documentary will come out about this in six months, but like It's just so weird that we like I kept expecting there to be like more shots of Brunson amongst bodies in the paint, you know, like Brunson doing interesting things. This was an interesting one too because he took Wow, that crazy three. on Wimby with such confidence that like That would is that the time to go to the pre game footage of him practicing that shot or something like there's got I mean, it was such a wild decision to make But it was so confident that I expected more on that front too. It was way deep. He was double covered But he was absolutely taking that shot Yeah I agree about Brunson. Is it because a fallback is just not as interesting Am you know Is that what it is? Is it like that dissection J M like a Yeahah like well, I think in some ways a foallaway is like a reaction to what the defense is doing and Brunson seems to negotiate his way through without much regard for what the defense is doing. know I mean, it's almost like he's playing a you know, like an eighties arcade game where you just got to dodge the big trees and you like make it to the end, you know, you get your prize at the end or something. But but u Yeah, I don't know. It's just it does feel like watching him and we watch him as a Maverick Sad to say Um Still hard to believe that happened It's a really We're talking about the Dicks, not the Mavericks. Last note for you, did you notice there was a Curtis maneuver at the end of the game Now what was a curtisman Lisa Salters Oh yeah. Talenobi. Gave here we go, right? We have it We have one play. all we care about is what the hell happened on that play All we care about. Yeah. She talks to him. She asks him about it Ypin was a little late rolling the replay on the side by side. And it was not clear to me that Ananobbe could actually see it. But we're making baby steps here. Yeah. The way to fix The interview after the game is asked the player to tell you what happened during the most exciting play of the game and roll the replay and let them watch it and describe We're done. And by the way, I stole the Ctis maneuver from Lisa Salters because I saw her doing it during a Monday night football So it's really the Salter's maneuver branding Coming up on the press box David, how freaked out was the Trump White House about the damage caused by the Epstein files? Is Barry Weiss getting layered or is Barry Weiss getting promoted? Y suggestions about who we should add and take off from our list of unknockables I went to the best used bookstore in Scandinavia and an interview with one of the greats Semaphores, Dave Weigl Graham Platinner, James Taler Rico, the Washington Post and more All that and much more on the press box, a part of the ringer Podcast network Hello media consonsumers. It's Brian. It's David. Isably Producing this here podcast David, did you get a chance to read The Xer I refer, of course, to Maggie Habrerman and Jonathan Swanans Big story in the New York Times comes out of there only in journalism Hotly anticipated book regime change Mhm which comes out june twenty third a week from this coming Tuesday. I'm very excited to read this book Not just in a podcast. I'm excited for a thing that's about to come out way. I genuinely You want to do the reading I want to do the reading, but like when the Bob Woodward books come out, the Latter day ones, I'm kind of don't want to do the reading. Oh yeah, because I'm just kind of like, heh But the first two excerpts of this, even though they have been woodward coded, in the sense of there is a very important meeting And a person at the meeting said to another person at the meeting, this and inside he couldn't help but think there's a lot of that A lot of meetings. This book generally seems very interesting This second excerpt is called Inside the White House Freak O overver the Epstein Files. You knew this was a big piece for the times Because not only did they have the vertical video of Habermman and Swan The vertical video began with Haberman and Swan sitting down in the seat M Oh yeah this is a serious documentaries format. Yeah. Yes. and also it was incredibly long. I actually don't know how long it was, but usually if a video starts playing on the Timestone page while I'm there, I'll just kind of let it go before I scroll my you know, do my inevitable scroll and I just waited and waited. It was very good Very good. A very I mean, very like deliberately edited, you know, I mean, those the sitting down is a good point, but they had them going back and forth in obviously like well produced way Overlapping each other and stuff. It was yeah, they gave all the signs. The New York Times did its job When did sitting down become the ultimate documentary cliche Um, I'm trying to think of the first one I mean, they're head it down in the last dance Or did they just look at? No, no, no, no, no. Deinitely Definitely not I'm trying to indicates the fact in a do it's like, we got the we got the person And Michael Oh my God even sit in those Michael Moore movies Um I don't think so I't There is an old documentary thing where you show little things before and after the interview ends as a kind of way to introduce some veritee in there withith the sports dos, it usually means like, oh my God, hereere's Isaiah Thomas. I'm sitting down for an interview. Yeah literally sitting in the seat Uh, the Habr and Swan excerpt couple notes for you. F first was Both excerpts so far, including the first one, which is about the drive toward the Iran warar have had JD Vance portrayed as the administration's go to truth teller Mhm This one begins with a scene from last July in the White House situation Room A lot of a situation room in this piece where Vance was telling everybody, hey, this Epstein file story You may think this is going to go away. I know the base I am online This is not going to go away easily The only thing for us to do is just release everything right now I'll also quote from the story here Vance had also floated to colleagues an extraordinary PR gambit that the White House enlists Tucker Carlson to interview Epstein's longtime girlfriend and co conspirator, Galaine Maxwell in prison So Vance's idea of trying to Get ahead, get around, get away from the Epstein stories to dispatch Tucker Carlson to interview Gillaine Maxwell who presumably would say, Hey, Trump had nothing to do with this. Trump did nothing wrong that would somehow be what a what a strange Well, and also and what you can see, I mean more and more every day is that just I mean, having buy in from Tucker Carlson would be probably the biggest coup of all You know? Yeah because he's the one that could get the base under control. How Tucker Tucker is convinced that there's nothing here. M This is much ado about nothing or at least I'd say much ado about nothing, but does not have a direct tie to the president of the United States other than he was Jeffrey Epstein's associate for a while. Exactly Maybe it'll go away. couple of other media notes in here Vance wanted to go on Joe Rogan's podcast. and discuss everything Hear the air. I, didn't he nominated himself after someone else was nominated Yeah Todd Todd Blche. Todd Blanche. I would love to hear. I would love to hear the three hour Todd Blanche chat fest there. what would that mean And look as as podcastters we're taking JD Vance over Todd Blanche. That's just just By the way, Terry Bradsaw was on Rogan the other day I was kind of K kind of jealous of that one Another note that came up in the story when Trump was trying to head off that famous Wall Street journal story about the They note with the photo O excuse me with the drawing C The Wall Street Journal edit and Chief Ema Tuck And as Habermman and Swann note, practically shouting, the president told Tucker who is British that she must, quote hate America she is publishing that story about him Great stuff A lot of stuff in here about Cash Patel and Dan Bonino Bonjino is quoted saying this is going to be President Trump's Iran contra Bonino also stormed out of a meeting with Szie Wiles who told him that she had been told that he had leaked a story about all this ABC newews Qotes in these stories are always fascinating. Mhm Maybe people are running tape for some of these meetings Probably what you're doing is a lot of reconstruction Mh What was said and then cross checking it This room Stephven Chung who works on Cs or Trump kind of made my eyebrows go up Pardening Maxwell Ca a trafficker of young girls, comma would create a huge PR problem M. Cid somebody actually say that in that way The other takeaway here, I think in this made a lot of people's Eyebrows go up. came in one of those situation room meetings Mhm. one epstein victim had sent an email saying that she knew another Epstein victim. Okay? foollow me here. Mhm And victim number one claimed that victim number two told her and here I quote from Swan Haberman that Trump had a pred election for nipples So As Habran and Swan portray it, here's the presresident's whole team. in the situation room Figuring out how to deal with that piece And again, just just an allegation, just a second or third handand allegation. but tryrying to figure out how to deal with that piece of this entire story. Yeah And I must read you one more paragraph here The vice president said he thought the president would be okay with releasing the nipple related documents arguing that Trump had been accused of worse I think we should put it out, he said. It would cause people to say we're going further than we need to Wiles quickly responded that the president would not, in fact, be okay with him Mhm Anyway, check out the entire excerpt over at the New York Times will have much more about regime change over the next few weeks. Berry wise, David. I took the I took the Tuesday show off, hoping you would have just churned through all of your Berry whes, but no. Well, we had too much Scott Pelly to talk about That's true. That's true. question that has surrounded Barry Wise and CBS News What you and I have asked a couple of times is How much does bad press matter? Mhm The fact that you'd have Scott Pelly, a well regarded correspondent talking about sixty minutes being murdered T about CBS being on fire Mhm How much does that matter? And when I say matter, I mean to David Ellison. M Wh is Barry Weiss's boss? Y. She apparently reports directly to him. Is there a point where he says, whatever I'm getting out of this person? Is it worth all of this terrible press for my news division It's not just Is Weiss going to do a good job But is she going to do such a good job that she will overcome all of this Mhm Well, a couple of stories I want to submit to you here. One came from Dylan Byers Puck, he wrote about this in May. Buyers wrote that members of the senior leadership team have had informal discussions about changing Barry's mandate at CBS News and eventually CNN in ways that would give her less control over the linear product Paramount would look to bring in an executive who could manage that business And buyers continued sources with knowledge of the conversation said that Barry would likely cede day to day control over the evening news CBS mornings in sixty mininutes to this more experienced as yet unnamed executive shifting her focus to the newews division's digital growth Now that makes it sound like Weiss is being layered Mhm that important responsibilities are being takenthough I mean, if that if this is true, it's maybe more interesting than anything is that like She doesn't seem privy to the discussions whichich is goes to the layering point, right? I mean, there is a way to do this exact same thing with very involved, righting just be like Listen, there's only one way to head some of this stuff off. We just got to assign you just got to pick a right hand who's going to do all the day to day, you know and make it look like your choice and whatever else, But according to this She seems sort of separate from Then there's another piece that came out. from Sarah Fisher and Mike Allen in Axios And their piece is sort of the opposite of Buyer's piece in which they say that Paramount is hunting around for a business side counterpart to Burry wise And they say the search implies that if Paramount Skydances deal with Warner Brothers discovery goes through, Weiss would oversee all news editorial across both CBS and CNN Mhm So now we're not talking about somebody being brought in kind of layer her say, hey We brought you in to do digital stuff Somebody's going to take care of the day to day sixty minutes, which he has definitely been as we know, involved in various ways This is more of okay, somebody's going to take care of the business so that you can focus on editorial in a sense And then Byers had another piece last night sticking by his original report. So I guess those are two outcomes Buyers does mention that bigger story here maybe at the end of the day or at least let's call it the other big story is not just what is Barry White going to do to CPS but what's going to happen when CBS and CNN are combined How many jobs are going to be lost It's true And when you're reading from articles that are speculating about new hires, I'm sure they' still hire You know, the multiimillion dollar business executives. There's those those people probably won't be redundant when those two things come, you know, overlap U, they seem to be the last to go. Yeah, every single time Um Yeah, it's It's going to be very interesting to watch. It's going to be it's just It's it's hard to believe how Even watching it in real time, how much this is sort of like was is going as predicted You know what I mean? Oh L everything from the ideology to the incompetence Mhm was predictable I am grimly fascinated by what the next season of sixty minutes is going I don't know what I actually didn't listen to show earlier this week. I apologize. so I don't know how much that you guys got into But in some sense Like, listen Line editing for like ideological reasons just that's an absolute no The sort of broader point about the sanctity of sixty minutes while I'm sympathetic to it, I was just like, I kind of feel like anybody who in her shoes would should do exactly that. likeike, you know, no sacred cows Right? Like this is our biggest show. Let's make it an even bigger show. You knowre, like, whatever There's that's got to be some of the thought process. but Even that, it's like it she like the the the whatever the holdover forces were proven right again and again and again. you know, it's like everything just comes with an inherently negative story about it question isn't Sh sixty minutes change to adapt to the new world we're in. It's The question is, is Barry Wise the person to change it But of all of the of all of the things that have warranted You know, insider stories about her tenure so far, this is weirdly just theoretically the one I have the least trouble with You should you should have an eye on sixty minutes. But she's not the one to change it. She's just not the one to change it. And every article I read about this, there's this framing. And I don't know if this creeps in from Weisson Company because journalists presumably see comment and are trying to be fair to her and figure out, but they're all it's there's this framing in there that The peopleople at CBS News are these old TV dinosaurs and that she is trying to drag them into the streaming age And my response is Name me one thing she's done at CBS News that has anything to do with streaming or the future. She's doing TV stuff out of nineteen eighty six, which is booking BB Netanyahoo for a newsy interview and changing The anchor of the evening news. Yeah. that stuff people have done forever Yeah. If anything, she's old media And not new media And it's very, very flattering for her to be portrayed as well, you know, these people they still think Walter Krk you knowal Brian, old media. what do you think What's the over under on the last year in which a major news network hired a newspaper as their new boss Like nineteen ten or something? I know with the free press She's experience in video and she's like, let's take over a TV a TV outfit. But the free press, then again and everybody's eyes like,. We'll see about that related report from Natalie Corach and status. Daniel Dale America's factacthecker, David, Daniel Dale, America's Facthecker by way of Canada has not done an on air fact check for CNN in three months since he fact checks Trump's state of the Union He's done online stuff. He's done short form video And CNN of course, denies to status that anything is amiss. But you might ask what happened three months ago. Well, as Koratch writes Two days after his state of the Union fact check, Paramount announced its blockbuster merger with Warner Brothers Discovered Certainly interesting timing The World Cup starts today what you're watching when you change over from wrestlers, flip over from wrelving Have you been following the saga of Freddy, the German soccer fan No This is kind of like guuy who made Seinfeld joke Yeah I say as soon as you ask it, I'm like, I think I've seen a lot of tweets about this and didn't know the subject. but about how endearing it is Freddy Freddie LA seven on Twitter traveled to America. Apparently and has published a series of wide eyed posts about the sights and sounds of our country Freddie went to Taco Bell Mhm. which he called the Holy Land. posted aict W to Walmart went to buuckies near and dear to our Texas hearts Freddie went to the waffle house and tweeted Just had our first waffle house experience at one AM. Great food, great prices and friendly staff. T out of ten, we will be coming back Well he certainly got the American comment section posting style. That's great Freddie also tweeted I love Americans. We were about to walk an hour to the stadium in the rain to save on an Uber And the receptionist at the hotel we were parked in front of decided to drive us there I've seen a lot of tweets saying, this is so awesome. Follow this man. is this is so touching I've also seen some tweets by our friend Jay Kang at the New Yorker, saying Is this real No, yeah. Or you know, did this start out real and now we're just being Is this an ad For wafflehouse or whoever we're tweeting about Tifa or something. likeike what's happening here? Or is this like a like a Q andon style Syop. What are we exactly are we accusing Freddy of here? We're not accusing him of anything. because this is a media podcast, but we are just We were responsibly wondering aloud. If something that is So touching So, so so wide eyed about The wonders of American life could possibly be just that I would never dream of calling him or anyone Alexi de Hoesvill You laugh at that one I did. I did. That was a good pun Yeah, is you think there's a career These days and being just like an itinerant short form ghost writer. likeike my job is to just travel the country, identify the various Freddies of the world and give them their moment by taking over their social media accounts And beings in reallyally doing it And like creating the character and then just dipping out after two months or whatever It feels unnecessary because most people just volume post and doesn't matter how good or bad Yeah stuff. It's like, I just ate a pastramei sandwich. Look at it Yes, there there probably is a certain art form there and there should be somebody if there's not already to There just does it, right? Its just like ar Whatever. It's like find the oldest living Ns fan who's been waiting for this for so long and just like be their Twitter voice for a week There were some good sties by the way. You see the person went to Rikers to watch the N game That was good. I was jealous of that We got some updates to our unnockables list Oh This was the may issue of the press box getting in just under the wire, may thirty first You and I took a nineteen sixty six Esquire story that seek to gather the very small group of people that no one objected to. and make it better No one could knock. We wanted to make it better, but we wanted to mainly do a twenty twenty six update of the Unnockables. Uh hereere's some of the a lot of people wrote us and said, hey You put Martin Scorsese on the list. And then he immediately embraced AI Is this an unnockableles curse that we're looking at that we're staring down here Cover curse. Yeah, mayaybe we should have put Uncle Stephen on the list instead of Martin Scorsese anyway. Thanks for that. Ralph Russo and Josh Weisman ask how could we leave Paul McCartney off the list He was on one of the early lists, wasn't he He was on, but I think we picked Stevie Wonder over him. Sir Paul should probably be on the list I will say though They might be, you know There might be some like magnetic, what is it called when the magnets push against each other? There might be some tension. I don't know if you can be knighted and be unnockable at the same time. I think you might have to pick But we didn't we have some dames and Yes Yeah, I writt it out I'm just trying to make an excuse this list. Yeah. now it's true. If that is indeed the original Paul McCartney then he should probably be on the list. Yeah. I, you know, him playing off Colbert Right. I mean, that's, you know, he's just he season finale of Saturday night Live Yes Do you think we could get a redo of Ebony and Ivory On our unknuckables list if we have both Yeah it's to be wonder. No, no, no, he definitely deserves to be there. I just think u And that whole James Cordon thing that he did is just like was it's fairly recent but already just like a YouTube Hall of Fame clip I' been going back to Liverpool and Um, Anyway, yeah,, he probably deserves it Listeners, Kevin, Lazon and Bob Capecci had a good idea Chef Jose Andres Oh there you go WP. Callahghan writes this, I can make a persuasive case for most of the cast of Star Trek The Next Generation. Patrick Stewart being the most obvious choice and Lavar Burton probably being the better one And the barburenss again From Reading Rainbow to his current podcast Lavar Burton Reads. I have found Labar Burton to be a great advocate for literacy and a fine example of aging gracefully. Leavar Burton is absolutely unkockable Mhm. We got to vote for snoop Dg We talk to sg. We talked about him Prick Stewart for that matter, but I dont think we even got them. That was an oversight. And I had I had a whole space traraveler category too Philip Stratton writes I knew that Snoop Dog made the list with my sixty eight year old father who is a son of a Methodist preacher texted me during the Olympics asking if I was watching snoop Dog coverage And my mom sent videos to the family group text of my dad laughing at him Yeah he's there. But he also didn't he also you bought a soccer team too, a British soccer team. I feel like that's in most situations like kind of a heel move. So I don't know, it's tough Matt Sinkkowitz points out another big omission. Malala Ufsa the activist and Nobel Pace Prize winner. Who besides the Taliban has a knock on Mala? Matt writes He also suggests Lewis Hamilton, though you and I probably have to know more about F one to put him on the list Guide to Gana hadad some two really good ones. Neil Patrick Harris Okayan anybody against Neil Patrick Harris? No, there's a lot of comedy actors that could or comedic actors that could have gone on the list Um But, you know, I mean, even though it's the list is sort of like It implies some sort of timelessness. There there is a sort of an editorial consideration of like who' like of the moment. And I didn't think and there was no real obvious of the moment choices that didn't make the list Also Hyo Miyazaki Oh yeah That's a been on the aur list. Yeah ab for sure, for sure Nobody doesn't like me Azaki. U Guy also proposes a universally disliked list. Mhm. is kind of the opposite of The unknockables He nominates Ted Cruz King Charles Kim Jong Un and Nickelback that list. That's a pretty solid forsome Darren Cohen writes of Pat Rilly, who you and I considered but did not put on the final list. The man is and will always be enemy number one in America's largest city is New York think that makes you ineligible for even being mentioned for such an honor. day he sent the fax itting the N. I remember leaving high school and putting on Mike in the bad doog a Woo boy. It was mid June and Pata Rat was the topic for five point five hours of radio perfection. Jack Porr writes to us, you brought up showrunners at the end of the episode Who would knock Vince? I'm the one who knocks Gilligan. bad. Brian Smith suggests Michael Pallen Oh yeah. I thought of John Kleese and I think John Kleese probably has enough tweets and political takes that he is not Unnockable but Michael Palin is Ryan Harrington suggests Paul Simmon Tracy F says Alan Alda Oh yeah, Is he so with us He's still with us Piers is still with us Abrro Dina I suggest David Remniick Yeah, I kind of wanted to do a whole journalism version of this David Gran's on the list, Patrick Gaden Kes on the list. Christiana Alman Pur is on the list Maybe another time And Jerin Terry Zach says Denzel Washington. Yeah. All great suggestions Finally I was in Sweden Last week Oh, what a joy it was to be in Sweden, David There were certainly some corporate activities going on but also because I had ten hour flights to and from Amsterdam I got to do a lot of reading I read four books Four books Four books during this trip. I read Henning Manl This is a good one I read another Swedish novel called Dr. Gloss Uu. It was published in nineteen oh five it was a wonderful and very, very modern book. errific I read Hemingway's Imovable Feast wow. I had never read And I read a wonderful memoir by a BBC booker named Sam McAllister Mhm But in the midst of that reading, I also found best used bookstore in Scandinavia Oh, okay, here we go By the way, the best used bookstore in Scandinavia sounds like the title of one of these novels that you will take on your next trip. There will be a murder at the best used bookstore in Scandinavia. There's her New York Times bestseller right there. Yeah, mayaybe a Helen Mirin show that appeals to Yes The are both of our moms tell us how great it is the next time we talk to them Yeah They're just like, I can just I could just smell the fresh bread. Why? The Fresh Cardamom buns? Yeah U So I rode ahead emailed ahead to the best bookstore in Scandinavia. Oh, I want to see one of these pitch emails comes with these days. I might have to use one. I mean, it was mostly like, hey, I'm on this podcast and we talk a lot about used books Mhm But one of the people that work there was kind enough to meet with me. so I took my microphone And I had him intntroduce himself, pronounce his name and also the name of the story Okay, it's not so common in your country, but it's pontus P P OM T U S Soldom. so in the What's how do you pronounce name of the bookstore Renell's Antiarriot. was a little bit difficult for you? Antique Variat means antiquarian in Swedish. Ronalds is a fantastic bookstore Pontas was a fantastic guy Perfect person to meet at a use bookstore. Great which is to say he was smart. He was informed. He was not braggy If you're a chest beating kind of person, you probably don't work at a used bookstore Mhm tracks a different type. Pontas has worked at Ronned's For forty five years Wow. forty five years told me he started out as a clerk Mhm. alphabetizing the books And then he got promoted to where he was buying collections who were selling their books And then and this is Much more common in Sweden than it would have been in the United States, he became one of the owners of the bookstore expl Every young bookstore employeees's dream. This guy's living it It is Herie Pondas explains how It used to be an old family business, but the Lost family only died nineteen ninety eight and then we took over when we were eight And I'm the only one left now But we have share the stocks or the owner So So we are five now or six now also And what does group ownership do you think? What benefits does that give you? We don't have to have a boss That's very good A a few meetings It's very nice. So I think yeah That's the good part and we can decide together it works where well That's my professional goal as well not to have any meetings A boss, u, I guess I can I can abide that, but no meetings By the time you're his age, your version that's gonna to be like, that's a great place to work. Very few meetings, no podcasts. probably will be the will be what I say Ronalds has one hundred thousand items one hundred thousand twenty five percent of the books are in English Mhm They have an English fiction section. All the other books are mixed. So if you go to archaeology or Egyptology, both of which were sections there You will find Swedish books Yeah and English books. and you just go on this wonderful treasure hunt to find interesting things. That's awesome What Shakespeare and compompany is to Paris, Ronnells is to Stuckholm Now in the eighties, this bookstore was one of those places where well to do Swedish men came in looking for fancy, expensive books with gold bindings Now as Pond has told me, mostost of the books in the store are under thirty dollars or three hundred Chroner, if you will. He showed me some really cool old editions of Nietzsche And Winnie the Pooh Awesome Most of the story is in the Brian and David zone Most of it is Yeah out of the vast majority. Thirty bucks and under. I found Swedish editions of Henderson The Rain King. Oh, nice of Goldfinger Nice The James Bond adventure. of Robert Hughes' history of Australia? Yeah prove something I've long believed that Every used bookstore in the world inevitably includes Robert Hughes' history of Australia found Stephen King's the Tommy knockers. Mhm The Swedish translation of the title was just The knockers Sounds like Donald Trump' staff worried about Yeah the Epstein report I bought a copy of Raymond Chandler's Trouble is My B. Oh yeah translated title in Swedish was One's death I texted you right away and I was like, this is the toughest book I have ever owned in my life. Yeah It had two crooks holding guns on the cover And I took it up to the front desk and I purchased it and I bought a t shirt too and The cashier took my book and wrapped it in thick green paper. and you know, taped it on the sides like it was a Is that even asking you? Well, as an old school parcel Oh yeah. And I put it in my bag and I felt so good That ever in my life at that. I love it. Oh my Godd I also ask Pontas as a book seseller Do you ever see books and think I don't want to sell that I want to own it Mhm Here's what he said Not so often. I'm not a collector myself. I'm a reader So I often not often, but rather often I can bring a book home and then I bring it back I don't have to keep it att No, not so much. no. No, I collected Kafka when it was yark So I bought some really good. I still have them. But that's m We like I don't know, I don't want to sell them yet, but I will someday. It's hard to part with books Anyway Runnolds was a fantastic store. I could have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars in there When in Stockholm Please stop by thanks to Ponta Solden and congrats to Ronald Antqu Variat You are one of the best used bookstores in the world. Coming up in thirty seconds Folks Dave Weigl But first, let's do the overwork Twitter joke of the week, David, where we celebrate a gag that was so obvious that all of media Twitter made it at exactly the same time Senior nominees at the Pressbox pod where they are always gratefully received When you go see the Odyssey and movie theaters this summer You can buy something special at the concession stand a souvenir popcorn bucket ave you noticed how? Every movie has souvenir popcorn buckets now? Yes I didn't see He man. I didn't come within one hundred yards of he man, but there was both a Castle Gray Schull and Battlecat popcorn bucket. Yeah whichich would have thrilled young Brian and David to absolutely know how. Absolutely For the Odyssey, they are selling a Trojan horse filled with popcorn. Not the helmet turned upside down. That's what I would have guessed, But no it's Trojan horse Trojan horse It was an overwork Twitter joke to write. popcorn, eh? ye I'm not falling for that If you feel safer with Battle Cat holding your popcorn, congrats, you made the overworked Twitter joke By the way, very funny to see All the I think correct takes about how the movies are back Last week. And then you looked at the box office results and Scary Movie five was the number one movie in America. Both these things can be true, but it's kind of funny that they're both true All right, we're joined by Dave Weigl Politics reporter at Semapore where he writes the Americana newsletter He likes to say subscribe to the newsletter And you should. right now. Dave, welcome back to the press box No, it's good to be here again, Thanks guys Graham Platner won the Senate primary in Maine You spent some time there What kinds of things does Platinner need to do now to win the general election Right. I spent some time there. I talked to Platner throughout the campaign because Let's dial it back.. I'm answering your question, but he gets into the race with a bunch of instant media attention. organized by fight agency, his strategists who have a record of nominating these populist, at least in expectation candidates. Platner being somebody who had some privilege growing up but has entered a blue collar life as the oysteran and Their belief in this campaign is that the story of Graham Platinner combined with the neg the fact that Collins has to run as Donald Trump's Republican senator, that that is going to be enough that can withstand everyvery scandal every story because they disagree in the campaign that some of these things are scandals So what does he need to do? The simple answer is if He got most of the people who voted for Kamal Aris in Maine to vote for him and no one who voted for Donald Trump, then he would win. the decisive voter outd a Democrat who's will I'd say let's call a moderate who does not want to vote for the Trump Republican Party but does like Susan Collins That was decisive in twenty twenty is that storyline going to appeal to them? Be I do think I wouldn't say their're intention, but they are different things that the campaign is trying to do. One is to make Clidder himself and every man who's made a lot of mistakes. And if you hear about one factor it into the fact that he's made mistakes and try to get better. But the other part is a very populist campaign that is saying throw out this incumbent senator and shake up the system and soak billionaires slash the Epstein class this term he us in a new ad. What did he need to do? That's the strategy. who' We know he needs to win. We know what the strategy is is basically running a Bernie Sanders populous campaign with this I don't think this week you call an asset with this accompaniment of a messy biography the Democratic voters you talk to talk about the allegations in the New York Times and Wall Street Journal stories I in the last trip there, which was last week, from what we're talking, was focused on Platinner supporters, people who were showing up. I did not do a lot of personal interviews outside bowling places. I did a little bit just to get to get some And I did not and I was again, if it was my focus, I probably could have found We're looking at twenty eight percent of the Democratic primary vote, they didn't want to vot for Platinner on But I generally found people repeating the campaign's line And if you watched Platin a couple days later on election night, one of his signs, the sign on his podium for his lectureuring said they don't get They don't know me So they they agreed with that premise that Graham Platner's story is so inherently main, inherently relatable that it's the media that is responsible for people talking about something else. they want to talk about the story, but they also want to talk about this populist message Universal that's what our version of that at the campaign. And some digging in, some people who supported Platinner saying the fact that he was under attack in the media. And that's generally how they how they put together, right? Not I saw this on Fox News, notot I saw this on CNMN, but the media is after him Oh The fact that they were attacking him That's the point of the populist message is you can fold that in and say the reason that I'm getting negative coverage is because of these corporate owners of the media who don't want populists to win. I think if somebody's been covering Democrats enty years Yeah, twenty years, Republicans and Democrats. cus with a focus on Democrats for a It think that's evolved that is that is not brand new, but that is becoming a more popular position among Democratic primary voters who again are you know, generally wider, more well off than people who vote in a general election at this point in a place like Maine That's becoming pretty popular and I think the attention on the Ellison's moves through the media, the Trump administration's threats to the media, through the SDC. I think that has kind of gotten below the top soil for Democratic voters. And that changes how they they see something that's a negative story about somebody they like I noticice Platinner called the Times in the journal Eestablishment outlets, quote unquote. Yes Well much moresecinct. You can do theccinct target. I can do it belong with the partarget. Right, by' running against the political establishment. and I'm also kind of running against the media establishment, which happens be headquartered in New York Yes, Yes, cllassic tactic. If you covered the teea Party in twenty ten, it was a version of that tactic and I'm not a I'm not one of people who needs every scale to balance in a story. bothoth sides do it. I'm just saying this is this is a democratic message is interesting. and I That's what I'm saying in Maine Tomala Harris won Maine. Bernie Sanders was not the nominee in Maine. Bernie Sanders was popular Democrats It is a bet that because Collins have beaten other Democrats, is a bet that they need to make it a Bull on populous burning campaign, not one of the more moderate democratic campaigns that have won statewide, but not beaten Collins It's a trendy thing to write right now that Donald Trump has reset the parameters for what counts as a scandal these days What's the evidence that that's true both in Platner's case and with Democrats more broadly? I'm only pausing because The goal I was saying this to somebody else there day, the goal of the campaigns is to picks in people's minds andong most voters' minds, the ones they need to win a couple of facts about the candidate. You're not going to know every five position, but you're going to know that they took X, Y Z positions and you'll know some facts about them. so The the job of The job of a campaign is to is to win win the argument about the person's character. Um So that maybe you think you hear scandals and think, well, of course he has some scandals. I think that's what happened with Republican voters in Trump. and also the new voters who voted for Trump. I don't think individual and you saw you saw this in polling when you justll see an open ended poll that asked people associate Trump with The idea was that he had a bunch of scandals that were known, versions of which would be based on behavior that was known before he ran for president. People put the scandals in one box and voted on other issues. That is the goal for everybody. They want every a lot to happen. either the scandal to disappear or the scandal to be put in a column where voters consider other issues. So Trump has been incredibly helpful in that Trump's particular particular accusition against him, I should say, want to be careful about how he describbe them. are not agreed on by everybody. But I'd say among Democrats, very popular to believe the absolute worst thing you've heard about Trump. You will see, you see this in Democrats in Congress like Ted Lu talking about the Gfstein files and saying st makingump accusations about Trump that would be hard to back up in those files if you were not a member of Congress and therefore could use the speech of debate claws to say things that'd be dangerous to say on a podcast. And because Democrats think Trump has gotten away with that much They don't know why this would bounce back against Epsty. One there was a you saw a reaction from the Pro Platinum media, which is another relevant thing here, just the progressive media infrastructure for Democrats for these candidates outside of mainstream media, is much more robust than it was even two years ago But in that meeting, you saw when Platner went on mourning Joe, and was asked if the accusations against him, which are being rough with a girl he dated and sending romantic messages to several women while he was still married a couple of years ago. Those thoseose are the main character accusations about his personal life the question for Miky Brzinsky was, well, does it make it more complicated for you to talk about the Epstein files and he answered it he kind of denied the premise of the question. I think he did so in line with Democrats because They have been trying to change the way people view Trump and to not there's some scandals and they're not relevant but that he is personally corrupt. he has tied in with the corrupt elite who run the world a sort of theory of the world that jumps between parties. and It is important to understand how his corruption is making your life worse. They're trying to draw out the scandal part of Trump, which on its own just hasn't enough to beat him into his character issues are reflected in his choices about what to spend on money that he personally gets through the presidency, pardons he gives to people when they donate to him to his super pack or his presidential library. That's what they're trying to do with Trump, the actual character accusations about him. That's what they think is that it started lowering Let's say with Bill Clinton in nineteen ninety eight and it has continued to lower. You can poll voters. there are different personal mistakes that they assign different importance to For example And I think this is this is too I believe, but that just behavior cheating on your spouse is viewed very negatively in a way that posting something unfortunate online is not or evenving having a bad tattoo is not. this has been looked at The voters again that they want to win have a different view of this. It's just It's just interesting to watch Democrats agree that their standards can't be high if Republican standards are not high And this is something I've heard talking to Democratic strategists this week about all this is that They don't they they don't think Republicans are crriticizing Platternery in good faith obviously, when a Democrat, like John Fedterman criticizize a platform has more weight in the media. would's agree on that. Sure. The thing when Republicans do it doesn't have that much weight because nobody believes that they really think these character issues are refiring offents. If let's say somebody at Doge had that tattoo and got it changed, would the administration defend that person from the woke left? it probably would. That's how they think about it Forgive me if you already wrote, but there's a good wle call about Platn progressive media because he went on Pod save with Tommy Vieder when those Reddit post first came out. He went on with Chris Hayes after the stories came out of be blow stories, the journal and the Times. and then as you mentioned onene more trip to Morning Joe after he won the primary That's been fascinating to watch I want to ask you about Texas because as soon as Ken Paxton won the Republican Senate runoff there. Republicans started attacking James Talerico. The Democratic nominee as A wimp. I could use other words, but let's go with Wimp here on this family podcast Here is Ted Cruz making the case the other night with Fox' Sean Hannity I got to say if you were making a list of a thousand adjectives to describe this guy Masculine would not be one of them I mean, this guy if a stiff breeze came by it would blow him over like a feather Where does that line of attack come from, Dave I think it's pretty direct and I'll abide by your parameters on what we can talk about, but it's some of the least subtle association campaigning I've seen in a while. The their work was done as soon as so Puerto Rico wins the March Democratic primary. Republicans are hopeful, I'd say, not Texas Republicans. DC Republicans are hopeful that John Corn wins the Senate runoff. But Republicans have been messaging this for three months now. As soon as Talo Rico was clearly in the lead going to be the nomine, rather And there were attacks on what he said about basically transgender rights and the basis for restricting them as Texas has done he was he During a debate on it said there are actually six sexes in referring to biological differences, abnormalities in addition male and female And what he said, I've talked about this is to win the debate point and be provocative. He wanted to debate Republicans who were banning gender medicine and that he didn't think they understood. He said another debate that got his non binary. That was the basis of it. But he made an appearance on a podcast in twenty twenty twenty three where he about How should I put this. The final question the podcast for him was about what he loves in addition to his family. And he said, I'm just going to say because I'm thinking about it because they were it's on my mind, that trans children who came to the Capitol fight for the right. So Taler C was referring to those debates Texas band gender medicine for minors classify as child abuse. Ken Paxton is running for the senate seat now his AG's office has been litigating other states to ban it So that was a political position Tal Rico took And what Republicans have done, Republican Republican media is cut that up usually truncated to say I love trans I love because I I love the trans children notot that they were run the Capitol not the Constant text. And the discourse in Republican politics and consered media has been that He must be creepy. He must be a groomer to use a word that was pointed. put a lot more into circulation in two twenty one And so on Ken Paxton wins the primary the runoff, I should say And he and the people introducing him, including Congressman Brandon Gil who's very anti woke Republican congressman who uses his hearings to grill the leaders of liberal groups and ask them to defend the language they use They all mention this trans children comment And so the implications should Not been subtle, Stephen Miller, the White House Chief of Staff calls him the first transgender candidate There been going on has been consonservative media tax fist is Basically beg the question of why Motel Rico is not seen with a girlfriend Tyeru said he had one. There were questions about that. Some reporting was done to establish that he is dating a former staffer who when they started dating got private sector job and Republicans in Cervative media in Texas have been attacking him as somebody who unethically was dating staff That has not gotten as much traction as the other attack. The very the very gender specific LGBTQ specific attack Onto Rico really has undergirded everything in the effort to make him look like culturally alien and dangerous because the premise of the these Texas laws is that peopleeople who want Gender medicine for minors are literally child mutilators. They This is an attack they're very comfortable to making If you talk to the libs, I think they will tell you or they will ask, how in the world can anyone vote for Ken Paxton given all of his scandals. and I think we can actually use the word scandal there Sure you've ' study this race, you've talked to Republicans. What is the appeal of Ken Paxton in Texas? I just talked a little bit about it at the end of the answer because I think in It is often reported in political media that liberals read that Ken Pax is this Trump ally who sued to overturn the twenty twenty election. that's true. In Texas, he has done a lot of work that as mentioning this on social conservative priorities. so he's used the Texas AG's office well, wanted to go after media matters is one thing he did. He helped when Elon Musk was court shopping for people who would do that. But on gender medicine and on abortion. has he has made the office very aggressive in prosecuting people disobeying The Texas. laws. and you saw in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, the period Tel R made that comment and you saw people as profiles who belie leaving the state for that reason. So that's what he he is He is not just seen as a strong solid warrior for Rublican values. He's seen as the kind of Republican by consonservative primary voters who actually fights when a lot of them will say, Oh, I'm against that and then not litigate it, not do anything about it or not ban it This is the popularity of Ron DeSantis in his own state. So Pxton's messy divorce, his impeachment Those have been problems for him. Those he doesn't have quite the same appeal as Trump and Look at this rascal who is only being attacked because of the Liberals who run run the establishment here's some of that. It's not as powerful is for Trump A lot of it really is that and he he got this office because Ted Cruz endorsement in twenty fourteen against a more moderate Republican. He has been known. Among Republicans for a very long time as one of the guys who will absolutely start shooting when other Republicans are cautious about the possible backlash. He will take on like D Santis, take a cou of stuff. He's just not As media friendly as Dantis. And that's part of be part of this race is that Paxton does not court the media very much. He's done a little bit since he won the election, but Tal Rico wants to be personally in people's forU page getting their attention all the time and Paxton talks to conservative media and is not the focus of his campaign. Anti Talor Rico attacks are more the focus of his campaign. I think I learned this from you. Ken Paxon does not debate either, right He hasn't debated. Yeah. And so yes, Republicans have strong advantages in Texas and every election. They haven't lost in a statewide election this century Yes, taxed in has Hack competitive racm He must lost re election twenty eighteen. He did much better in twenty twenty two, but remember he was he was primary that year by George P Bush and another Republican George P Bush being the J Jeb Bush's son living in Texas And Paxton won that without debating them. They challenged him, didn't work. and didn't debate in the general election. So it's not that he would melt down in a debate. He's definitely less I think effective speaker than Palo Rico, put it that way But he's one of these Republicans and this has been a trend too. you've seen across the country And in a state where you don't really need U to worry about losing to a Democrat Yeah, not going not debating your opponent on some on some liberal media platform. You you pay no price for that. Republican voters do not mind U Dave, I live in L.A You used to live in L.A Does the slow count in California that ended with Spencer Pratt in third place have any consequences outside of conspiracy theory Oh, definitely because who is listening to those conspiracy theories? It's people at the White House. It's the U. S atttorney's office. So you Man, the explanation of California voting is so exhausting that you you get you understand with people and you're tired of it. But basically post COVID, California has very generous absentee bot laws. People get mailed to ballot and ballots are counted until if they are postmarks within a week of election day, they get added to the count, they get polled and counted. This has been known just as Temporary COVID practices in twenty twenty and other states have been known and were known for that election. I'd say fair to say the Republican Party has has taken a lead from Donald Trump and just characterizing all elections where ballots counted later go against them As Pony, they just do that now. it's much rare for Republican to say this is probably legitimate And so you saw the spepeaker of the House Mike Johnson say that, you saw attttorney General Bill SL going on Len Beck's show to agree with him and launch an investigation, Be more careful because the problem you just hinted at is this is how the law works. Nobody has found actual fraud, but it is going a lot like The twenty twenty stopped the steel aftermath, where because of social media being really uncontrolled at the moment I'm saying as endorsement control just Elon Musk has lifted some guardrails that used to exist before and Rubans has have sucessfull gotten guard rails off icebook, et ceter There's a lot of rumor mongering about Palestine in the trash and that must mean a bunch of that are fake. There's no chain of custody, which there is. this is peopleeople are getting signature matches returned, which they think is Democrats still in the election and not proof that signature messes or they're used to verify ballots It is the same stuff here in twenty twenty. So The question is that there's a litigation for the Spring Ct right now would if we would succeed prevent states like California from counting ballots after election night a that would lead to different A lot of issues about how states have a lot of leeway in controlling their election practices. they can't. You know, discriminated people based on race and f f things, they generally can set their own rules U So that that would be a lot. Spreing C court changes that if it doesn't, the Trump administration administration is still making it harder can threatening, I should say, to make it make it much harder for ballots to be delivered in blue states. This is the executive order they're contemplating right now. When I say threatening, it just we know about the executive order because the presresident's talked about doing this sort of thing So that's why it matters. The absence of fraud in these elections does does not prevent that. Just the fact that somebody was winning and then somebody else was winning and more ballots came in later. seen a flowering of references to things that didn't happen. For example, the idea that one batch of votes went entirely against Spencer Pratt and he got zero votes in that in his mayor roll campaign in Los Angeles in one of these updates, that didn't happen. But I just referred to it because it has been posted enough that is believed by a lot of people. And I mean everything gets back to the media bubble question, but there's just not a source. There's not the federal government And then there's not a media source that would explain this in the way that California wants you able to explain it. So most of what supported the president are hearing officially and through their favorite channels is that, yes, of course, the fact this election is taking so long means Democrats are stealing it ammazing week for anecotes. I don't know a single person in Los Angeles who voted for the top two Democrats Right, you've seen people pointing out that U There are Sencer Pret fans in Santa Monica. who were to supported they couldn't vote for him in Santa Monica is not part of Los Angeles. You've seen anecdotally a lot of that stuff How much of it is real on Twitter well You can assume. a lot of you can see you can trace people and see the a lot of it is, but I'd also say Pratt was an incredibly popular political betting contact on Kaochi which is very invested in politics, which gets a lot of u ofest million tens of millions in this race alone bets on the outcomes of elections, something that's completely unregulated right now. I mean there really if you I've not seen a successful case brought. I've seen one tried against Cera Trading Information in Congress against float against Gorge Santos. I've not seen somebody find a campaign that bet against itself and went to court over it. This is a wild west that people are playing around in. But let's say most people bet on Spencer Fratt legitimately believe because they saw his AI videos, etceter, that he was going to win of Did some some of them lose the money? Did millions of dollars get lost based on betting on Pat? That looks that way from the way these contracts are paying out. And unlike I mean, in twenty, because Trump was denying the election, denying that he lost or he had to concede I There was a question about what betting markets were going to do in that and that raised paying people out when they got the call right and Biden won. So Cratt himself is indulged some of this. He's not said that everything was stolen from him, but he he said on social media OX in particular that he that he at one point was down because of forty three thousand ballots add the count And then he linked to a story about how they were close to forty thousand homeless people in the city of Los Angeles Not hard to draw the implication what he was saying. I think we can call that a conspiracy theory. That makes no sense. But on social media, you will find video interviews, so of most people who were told they would vote tobody vote for somebody else How verified is that? It's as verified as Somebody going up with their camera and putting online, people deciding to believe it The rest of the state, less of that is happening Steve Hilton because he was leading on election night and coverage of the race for the first few days showed Republican candidate ahead in California M most of California's counties red. How about not being too demeaning? I' just like this is how the president thinks number on election night, chart and election night amount of red on a map equals that Republicans are doing well. But But the president did take credit for the fact that it was officially called that Hilton would be in the second round of voting over Tom Styer He didn't say that that was only done because he commented That hasn't generated the same questions. And why do that matter California? There's not There are Republican Democrats, some of them in these elections who are acknowledging that this this looks so bad for the state. If they can't process ballots faster, one, they're at legal risk of not being able to do that and having maybe hundreds of thousands of voters show up in November who get their ballots thrown out more, maybe in California. And and to that they it just anyy story that makes liberals look bad that makes it look like they can't run things is bad for them. So our mom Donny's been quite popular in part because of a very effective media strategy getting in front of services the city is offering and how the city is cleaning up from snow, etcetera. When California is in the news, it is for being unable to do things. It' unable for spepending a lot of money on a high high speed road that wasn't built, spending lots of money on homelessness problems that weren'ight fixed and spending lots of money on elections that are taking forever to acc count So that meta story that Democrats who want to win elections are concerned about, even if Gevin Newsom or Connell Harris is not the nominee I found that with a lot of Republicans. They California is sort of a metonym for everything wrong with when Democrats run the country. And Democrats want a story. you see kind of centrist Democratic groups will put forward People like Brooke you know, Brooke Rollins, the DA in u San Francisco, more conservative Democrats who achieve things and watch number cry numbers go down, et cetera. They want some other story to be told because they all are very concerned about the Californias story being a drag on them. A C couple media questions before you go. You've been reporting on politics and campaigns for more than twenty years How has campaign reporting changed over that period Well, it got easier than it got harder, I would say. So in two thousand I was wrading my first freelance pieces about politics, I think, two thousand one, two thousand two and campaigns that just launch webs. It's easier to find without going to a phone book or finding their office, easier to find a campaign U They The media environment was much smaller. There was a lot of political media, but comp a flowering we've had since Let's like two thousand two, Iess they're just saying. less competition to talk to a candidate And then as Facebook and other social media became popular, campaigns would often share what they're doing very, very widely and want attention on it. And I'm talking not just about showing up and seeing the candidate, but Getting to know who the strategists are talking to the strategist Building some level of trust, which you need to tell the inside story of the campaign, actually break news on it That became easier. It became harder over the last few years, I think one just lack of trust in sharing information online. This is we've seen this generally.'ve People don't put their direct email email and phone numbers online because they know they'll get stolen So look on the very basic starting out story level, slightly harder to reach a campaign, some have Dprioritized in person campaigning. you saw this with them The Tom Masy race in Kentucky, Massey made a point out of being very accessible, doing lots of stuff in person and alerting the media about it, having a very busy media handler who was dealing with press coming through the state, going on CBS, et cetera. News that was not friendly to him necessarily. And his opponent, Al Gul Ran did not do that. He did a lot of conservative media Any reporter who went down there would tell you, it was hard to find him in advance where he'd be. Youd like to do this is pretty common in the age of campaigns being pictures and vertical videos online. It very common for a campaign to do some stuff in the day and then post later Hey, we really enjoyed being at this bakery. We really enjoyed meeting the workers of this factory Sometimes there'll be media that they bring along for one thing, but they've tried to push out the direct access to the candidate. The actual coverage of the campaign mechanics That's up up to the campaigns. The coverage of the financing, again, much easier and then harder because some of the nonprofits that made it a little bit simpler to sift through finance information lost resources. who does and doesn't get investments in the nonprofit sector ends up having an effect on politics? and room line has been, if we're talking about two thousand two, I was writing for various magazines, freelancer. I had a old blog sppot blog that wasn't doing a lot with it But other people were getting involved in politics as dirus bloggers, etcera and building a following That was a new story when I was starting out It was always a sidecard to the media. It supplemented the mainstream media, Bogging needed that to exist. blloggers doing interviews et ccera. making their own content, going to things themselves. That evolved. But it was never A as available at the media and the resources weren't there. how do you do it takeake a video of a campaign event and then upload it in two thousand two. It's very much harder in terms of equipment you need to bring to you than it is in two thousand eight That's just been you've seen campaigns don't need the media like they used to. So they don't hater to it. And that can mean generally campaigns will, if you talk to right strategist, you can You can communicate and get their side of the story on They want to have a commate with you. if something bad happens, they need to spin it, right? The candidates themselves Yeah, though they don't need to talk to the press. So you encounter more campaigns where there is a public schedule, the candid will talk, maybe they'll talk to cameras outide outside the event But he doesn't need to go on a TV channel to speak out. He does that in part just to show voters that he's being active and he's talking about what he's doing. He can post he or she can post vertical video they can communicate without any media filter. This is all obvious and I' this is all I've been written about in lots of books You have a wirered subscription or you're alive, you caght up to this But it really has changed the way that campaigns interact with the press that you You want to report. there are industries that are harder to report in politics. Not every industry ever had a press secretary who says, yes, you can meet the person and hear what he has to say at this event. There's a lot of opacity in covering other levels of government. This just got gotten a bit more, like covering those other levels of government in in terms of access, instant public access. And just you need to be relevant. I feel in choosing what you cover, I enjoy just telling a good story about the campaign But you're aware that if you have a really good Bull quotter a new fact that has been unearth, it might just be taken away from you and spirtited away on Twitter exX rather. and people will never see where it came from. That's also there's less less literacy first interaction with the media than there was. Eone knows everyone again knows this. I do think it's just changing how people campaign , because final thing about it is that there's so much Cllipping is what is driving campaigns now, just not just the access, not just the ability to put an entire video online, put something live. the ability live events are less important than taking a video that can go viral. And so every campaign every campaign with money has the resources you now see the person with a small rig filing them or at least see somebody with a high quality camera getting done B roll, but interactions. Okay, this is a good town hall interaction. the kind of thing a reporter would have wanted to use as a lead, possibly. if it's not too prefab and obviously can If it's a real moment, they kind of want to do that and give it out to themselves Um and There's a scandal. For example, Graham Potner in the last week it's a candle subject How did he respond to that How would somebody responded before Well He might have in two thousand two. All first been visited by reporters to his house because he hadn't saiden anything yet He would have gone, given a press conference, given advancedmediate notice to media CN would have been there, et cetera. People would have had a feed of it. The feed would have been disappeared. It wouldn't have been online forever. U and They The campaign would been looking to get the best coverage possible, win as many inches and minutes in printed and TV coverage and to extent radio coverage. And that's just not how they think anymore. So Blatner is in trouble U Reporters are in touch with the campaign. Reporters also have been talking people who used to work for the campaign to see, but what's going to come out next or is what is the truth behind thisition etceter The campaign responds with a video from the candidate and a video from his wife. Um and that's just there. you know, reporter doesn't need to go and dig that out. Nobody gotobbody gets the exclusive. noobody's u sitting down for the first platin interview, except he keeps giving interviews, they keep making news One with Chris Hayes, one with Morning Joe. MS now, notably I think this is important for that campaign, not to get back into it because're trying to wrap One of the premises of these populist candidates is often they can go to conservative media and get a hearing because the things they're talking about have a conserative audience. mayaybe not. Ns max, but you could go on to a conservative podcast, people would say that is right healthcare companies ripping us off, et cet. Lners because of what's happened been limited. and ability to do that. He's not going on Fox, which through the general Murdoch Media, Fox Newor Post, Wallreet Journal, etera have dug a lot in his personal life. New York Post was at people at his restaurant eating there and to see if they get a quote from his mother who owns a restaurant It's planner delivers oyst to the restaurant. This is Among the stories of the race, it may be hard to call a scandal, but kind of has been one U He communicates through his campaigns on videos and not for media that's going to just paper it over for him. But Mediaed is generally pretty friendly, and his goal in every answer is just to not give a bad clip It's not just a nail thirty minutes of an interview, it's not have a moment that somebody can clip and turn out of context alsoso has to be in your head when you're covering campaigns. to think about What is one, what new information can I extract that is interesting is the first question. However metic I extract it, what is new that I can get and put on paper? But also, what do I need to be aware of because of the way it might be played It happens a lot now that you're at an event or you're watching something and you see people referring to it incorrectly because they saw a six second clip I'm not saying incorrectly like they're being politically incorrect or subly just missing the rest of the statement. This has Bom Jes Tal Rico where and any reporter who's covered him has seen him say the border should be like our front porch with a welcome mat out front and a lock on the door. And Republicans have clipped that to saying our porterers should be look at our front porch with a welcome mat in the front And that's it. So again this is something that's challenging as a reporter is there's just more clipping as a medium of witnessing li reality Ld shaping and dishonesty about what was said. What do you do as a reporter? How much is a story you're spending correcting what is said. I don't think it's that hard but it's something you have to be constantly aware of because otherwise, What are you doing as a reporter that's not just reacting to clips? That's not just saying, this is trending and here's my take on it. You really need to be creating some sort of news and value and introducing new facts into the world, or else everything else has been replaced. You don't need to be there All right, last one for you. On this podcast, we spent a good chunk of the last year talking about your old employer, the Washington Post. What do you makes happen to that paper Well It's everyone who's worked there is sad about it. Every conversation you ended up having with somebody in public with a post and current post employee U It is a little funereal. It still it has been. evenven though the post has come back at the Doge reporting one public service policer, which should have in the last year Everyone is aware that just it is a place people are trying to get out of Not that the quality of the reporting is down, the people who are there are still good. it's just it The Cuts took away its capacity to do some of what it was doing before theign farign reporting with different desks with style books, etcetera. J generally, I feel' terrible, but it's the first is sports. I didn't mention sports. I feel terrible about it. For colleagues and a lot of colleagues have gotten new jobs But everyone there wanted to retire at the I would say everyone there wanted to retire the most. Lots of when they get there expect to stay there forever. I certainly did and they end up going to a startup. but is it is a place where people work for forty, fifty years U for one of a few newspapers that was like that. now it isn't. Now it's just a much more risky sort of job. So that coverage, not at all, the I mentioned how h' politics I do try to sublimate whatever I'm thinking through what I'm covering. in deemocratic politics, I wrote about this a couple weeks ago it has changed the post's reputation so that it's not going to be blocked from covering something covering a democratic event. But when it has negative information about Democrats, it's now seen very skeptically and the editorial page changes. You talked about them, everyone knows they are. and business goes in and replaces David Chipley with a with an editor who's going to take the paper in aree free markets direction. And it's now conserv editorial page as Mark Thon, the colist has said U That has really stackpped its relevance with Democrats, James Walkontral, the congressman from Fairfax, Virginia Tell me just did, you know, he used to read it every day and The local coverage isn't even what it used to be, they don't feel like they need to respond I just think that's terrible. I would being in the media, but I do think the interaction the veil between a newspaper and things that are happening in the area coverage, it's good for there to be news organization that is tied in h to the community. I just think I really missed that even after I left. It was very good to catch up on that because I live in the place. I live in suburbs now, but you live in the region you want to know what is happening because a disaster happens or there's election, or you just want to know who won a game. you want some local, local source to do that. So the flattening, the flattening of all political media where the Times is now able to absorb So many people uncover media so definive cover politics at least so definitively cover the world so definitively. Yeah, and I not just as a post homer. I think that lack of competition between big newspapers, that's bad too Yeah, I feel book worldorld, I'd say was the one thing that made me saddest though because it's I just Yeah such a great job with that They always had great just different collections in my house of different book critics who worked at the post U but just Uh, It's something I worry about all the time. the lack of literacy by choice that people people are are evolving to right now. justust having some sort of interesteresting surprising book section where you could flip through and and okay I wouldn't have heard of that, but for this book review, but for this writer who actually read the thing, but from this expert who wrote about it or this former sounder wr that's that's awful. I can't remember read everything was G me off of that one just was nonsensical to me. just because of that capacity is gone. I think that I've seen the numbers on I it't want to make them up, but it's definitely that we're try can we can count the number of professional book critics or newspapers on Both hands, I think, and still have fingers left overver. that's awful truly is. when the opinion section changes its stripes, I thought we were going to get a bunch of even the liiberal new Republic style stories about that. even evenven the Liberal Washington Post criticizes the Democrats, but in fact, it switches very quickly. People just kind of ignored it, you know ike you said, it's almost just like, yey, it doesn't matter Yeah, I haven't done the reporting on that. I generally don't I don't I'm very loyal inststitution. I really I really don't want to even when people have called me and say, can you can you be anonymous source? I don't want to do that No. I love the paper.. But yeah, I've seen the way that is now punching bag for liberals in a way that it never ever was. And the post in the nineteen eighties, you read Eric Alttererman's about the liberal about I guess the rise of pundance There is an erra where like Henry Keninger being in the post and George Will, it was conservative but part of the national conversation to the irritation of not just Democrats, but leftists. leftists who were against intervention, Central America, et cetera. It was very relevant in the conversation in a way that I now think Uh some Twitter users and substackers and YouTubers are and just not just the change of media. I do think the change of media from something reasoned for a thousand words in thrent versus rambled at length on YouTube or tweeted at short length. I do think something is lost when that first format is gone. Dave Weigl, seap for the America Newsletter, Dave, thanks again for coming on the press boox Thank you very much All right, it's time for David Shoemaker guesses the Strain pun headline Yeah Our last headline about Jacob Alordi as Jacob Bardi cans can plans not in jury due to injury It was a good one Today's headline, David comes from Alert listener, Eric Martin It's from the athletic Okay a site that many consider a Latter day spy magazine. Zach Miseell has a fun story over there. It's about why catchers in baseball are being struck More and more by foul balls that hit them groin t know that you need much help. So I will ask you, what was the athletic strain punnt headline You know, we've has this come up on the show before when I was growing up Anytime some a guy, you know got got hit in the groin, we would just say that he got racked I got I got racked on that on that u on that fence when I tried to climb over it, like whatever. And then I and then I didn't think about it again All through high school, college when I knew you, if I said it, it must people just must have let it go. and it wasn't until I was an adult that I said it somebody's like, I don't know you're talking And I was like wackcked. And I started asking all my friends from Texas. N nobody knew It turns out it's this very specific like skate culture thing that I guess I was like peripherally a part of in Louisville Kentucky. That's the only place where they're talking about Rack. So anyway, that's where my mind immediately goes. That's funny. you should say that because Racked was to term in Fort Worth and Midd So maybe it is it's just Fort Worth and Louvree orr maybe I brought it to Fort Worth and nobody noticed it By the way, we have not talked about that on the podcast before to answer your The first time I was just like, yeah, racked and somebody was like, that's not a word. It's just like It is definitely a word You want to guess the strain punnt headline Is it something like foul balls or balls strikes or Yeah, you're there Ball strike system Yeah. Ball strike system is the athletics headline He is David Schumaker I'm Brian Curtz. Predict the music by Isaiah Blakeley Please follow us on Instagram at Pressbox Ringer. where you can see this week my collection of Stehven Spielberg magazine covers. and a full write upp of Rumel's Antique Variat. and some of the other best used bookstores in the world wrrite us pressbox ringer at Gmail Plugging Tuesdays show, me and Joel talked about a number of things. We had a big show. Plus, we interviewed former RNC Chairman Michael Steele on that program That was great fun. David, we're back to normal business hours next week. I will see you Tuesday more lukewarm takes about the media See you later, Bren