Covering the Spurs and Popovich

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a fifty page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responssees set upp required compatibility and availability varies eighteen plus media consumers, welcome to PressBox. It's Brian Curtis Back from Vacation, it's Joel Anderson Hey man Rrian. It's good at. You see your smiling face again? Yeah, man. you know what A lot of people You know, because every now and again I read the comments. I try not to.. A lot of people didn't think I was coming back Unfortunately, I'm here Do people really think that I don't know. I think it was more wish casting Um, You know, I've done a really good job. I don't know if you know I was on reatchables. a week ago heurard it People hate me You know what I'm saying? I'm fine with that. But I have avoided the internet. And so that was one good thing about being off last week. I was just off the internet Th people were laughing at me falling down at the UCLA prractice facility And and u reading down their favorite podcast about movies they used to enjoy. You didn't read one comment last week. real? I comine. I don't believe it. I read a couple. You know, I felt like you, by the way. canan I say when I went so I was at the airport I don't know what happened. L there was something going on with my computer and I bought this book.. it's about Joan Diddian interviews. It's just a series of interviews she gave over the years. That's cool Yeah, man, it was actually really good. I didn't finish it all. I got through maybe like, you know, the first It has interviews with Pacific or Radio, the New York Times book review, interview magazine, salon I think I got through the fresh air interview with Terry Gross and so the next one up is Hilton Nolls at the Paris review. So yeah, it was really it was a good book. I mean, I just I was I needed the inspiration, the writerly inspiration and she's a I have a lot of admiration for Joe Didy and so it's good st Something wonderful about an airport bookstore because for the next couple of hours Maybe for the only time all week, you will have a chance to open a book. Absolutely. And if it has the right book, you're like, oh good, here we go. I got this. I A time all to myself. Nobody wants anything from me. I don't have to have the internet on if I don't want to. And in fact, the in flight Wi Fi was pretty bad on that flight, so I made the right choice Producers Isaiah Blakeley and John Romer are also here with us Coming up on this here podcast, Google is coming for journalism again Dan Levitart says sports journalism is dead. We've got things to say about that. Bezos is breaking his silence about the Washington Post. And San Antonio columnist Mike Finger is going stop by to talk about WimBy and the Wimby media circus. Can we touch this New York magazine sale before we move on here, Joel Yeah, sure. James Murdoch bought New York magazine yesterday Yeah, I saw tellells the New York Times he is interested in longer form, thoughtful journalism that can really speak to the culture Now if you've lost track of the Murdochs, James Murdoch is The scion only in journalism who was chosen to run the right leaning company. He is the scion who is now creating his own media empire Though he denies it has anything to do with his dad, telling the Times I'm just trying to build a great business No succession here, nothing to see. It would be tough to sort of compete with your brother by buying Vox. I mean, again, like Vuxel for pretty Hefty price. wereere you shocked by the three hundred million Number I don't know how much anything is worth anymore. R I was shocked that cess Fox has a roster of fifty podcasts, according to the Times. Yeah I did fifty. I did not know that. That's my fault for not knowing, but I did not know I know about it I know about Ested Herndon Yeah. I know about today explained And then I kind of lose the plot Man, America actually There's a there's well that's's that's the steads partod. There's a lot Here, man. You know, it's just interesting to me because I remember when I was at Buzzfpeeed and tes And At one point people were throwing around a valuation of like a billion And it' sort of madeade sense I was like, well, we do have a lot of properties. This is a really buzzing media company like in that moment And um And then I don't, I mean, I don't even like, you know Byron Allen just bought it for G grits and tattered clothes the other day. So I don't I don't know. And it's Byron Allen Byring Allen, man. I mean, Brion Al was worth a channel though man, you know He's going to have the Stephen Colbert slot on CBS. A tomorrow. Have you consumed a lot of Byron Allen content I have it. I want to watch comics Unleashed. Okay. Just because it has been talked down to me so much Oh you don't know when these shows were recorded and I was told the other day that dead comics Sometimes appear on it. Oh Okay about Sam Kinnon. Some of the shows are perhaps a little dated I used to watch because Byron Allen came on after you know, when you were a kid, like TV would just kind of go off like the programming and So Byr Allen would show up and he'd be interviewing, yeah, whatever celebrity was doing, you know, a media tour had a movie to pitch. And, you seemed like an amiable guy, like I didn't, you know, did I just I would have never expected him to be in this position. But ye to the broader point here, I'm shocked that Vox is worth three hundred million do, but In a lot of ways, it's inspiring. I'm like, oh, great, there's still some people out there that are willing to spend tens hundreds of millions of dollars on media properties. And that to me, that can only be a good thing, right? And that person is James Murdoch James Murdoch. Are you suspicious Um Not of his political motives. Okay I do think there's a worry of what does he want to do with New York Mag Oh yeah You don't buy these things to keep them the same size You buy them to blow them out too figure out things. I've seen, you know, it's like, well, will he create a New Yorker festival for New York magazine? I mean, that's simple enough I just wonder what form Th newew things will take. That would be my question Be there's not a lot of information, you know, he thoughtought for long form journalism. Oh, that sounds great That's cool. Yeah. you know, if it's kind of a prestige thing to own New York magazine, something that Lots of people like you and I like That's cool But what does he want to do with all this stuff That's a that's a great question. you know, I assume he sees a lot of potential in it. I mean, New York magazine And like the New Yorker, the Atlantic I'm sure I'm missing somebody, but I feel like those are the three the four or five magazines, old school magazines that have thrived in this new era. They found a way to stay relevant and they I mean, I remember when I was at slate Regularly people would get upset at how great New Yorkagazine's ideas where to do things. right. Great ideas, great packaging Great packaging. It's just really smart and really fun. Like there's always just like a lot of fun or just like Absurd stuff that makes sense, you know, written very well, thoughtfully considered And so yeah, I would hate If anything happen to that, of course thoughtoughtfully considered. and then there's some just batch yit personal essays that are in their own category that have done quite well. after mazine. they they I mean, a lot of people have tried the personal essay stuff you know, and it hasn't worked out for them for what I don't know if it's the editing, if that's the you know, ideas in the beginning But they seem to have a knack for figuring out This person has an interesting story and this is how we're going to tell it. And not everybody can do it, even though it seems sort of I think a lot of people think they can do it websites that were not part of this deal. Mhm The verge eater Yeah. SB Nation What's going on at E Nation right now? We could do a whole fascinating fifteen minutes, maybe a whole a whole podcast on Eespiation Yeah in its many forms over the years That was a that was a that was a go to website for me. maybe What year is this to toys it fififteen years ago Yeah what's going on with Eespiation? I do not know the answer to that question Thats. Go ahead. Let's talk about the Google asteroid if we can. Oh my go God. yeah, let's do it or The death of the Blue link Sarah Perez over at Tech Crunch writes the era of ten Blue links is officially over That's because Joel Google is getting a new search box a reimagined search box So for the better part of twenty five years, Google worked like this Joel or Brian tyyped it into their browser We typed in our search terms And we got a list of Blue Lyinkx And by clicking on one of those links, you often got sent to a journalism outlet. which relied on your traffic And perhaps even your subscription to survive Well, starting recently, when you entered a search term on Google, you got the dreaded AI overview. Yeah. which is now being used according to Perez by more than two point five billion monthly users Terrify. billion monthly users Terrifying And now within that AI overview, which has already discouraged you from clicking on any links You can ask conversational questions You can ask additional questions about the search and Google's AI tool will refine Th We willll give you refined answers, I should say to those questions without actually encouraging you to click on links That's that's tough. do you think it's funny that this happen not funny that that this is ironic that this happens in the same month that As Jeeves U Died an unceremonious death? I had not thought of that connection, but that probably belongs in the penultimate paragraph of the. Yeah. I had an example of this that I wanted to share with you and it's a personal example, but I thought it was interesting. So last week we lost A sports anncer named Charliee Yeah. Charlie Neil, who is a very significant figure because he brought college football to BET in the eighties and I thought, well, this will be fun to experiment with Google's new search today I went to I asked I asked Google, I should say, I typed it in. I said, you know, who was Charlie Neil's broadcast partner on BET Wow Very specific, okay. Very specific. Now AI overview H. came up with the answers Bye. looting the story I wrote for the Ringer about Charlie Neil and other outlets They came up with the answer that Charlie Neil's partner on BT was Lem Barney, the haall of Fame cornerback with the Detroit lion And there was a tiny little link that said the ringer there But of course, there's no need to click on that and actually visit the ringer because The AI overview has told you the answer to the question Then I went to This new part of the Google search which is called Ask anything So already, wait're we're away from the blue links. now. we're just completely in the AI overview world And I asked, Google, I said, was Lim Barding known for being funny Sure It' kind of a leading question because I know the answer Uh huh And The answer was yes, Lim Barney was highly regarded for his sly comic relief and witty dry sense of humor in the broadcast booth Okay And then the AI tool gave me two answers Tw examples I knew what these examples were because they were both from the story I wrote about Charlie Neil for the Ringer And I specifically remember that I found these examples by going through entire BCU football games on YouTube to listen to Charlie and Lim so that I would have some examples of stuff Lim Barney said on the air ' people told me he was really fun So I watched hours and hours of tape when I was putting together this story I came up with a couple of little examples Yeah And now Google has shoplifted those examples from my story so that you don't even need a click on the thing that I wrote That's what's happening here from the point of view of us journalists And now it's happening more efficient It's already happening with AI with the AI overview. Now you can ask an additional question Oh, here's another way to avoid clicking on theringer dot com and finding the answers you say How did you feel when that I mean, because you're talking about this like sort very matter of faculty. but did you feel like someomebody had committed theft They had broken into my car. That's how I felt. Yeah. And that's what's happening every day. And there's and again, it's like one of those things where I understand this from from a consumer point of view and I am often that consumer rather than the journalist My son had some English homework last night and we were looking for synonyms And what's a synonym for cumbersome? Now was I clicking all the way through to the Meriam Webster link? Nope I was not. I was reviewing I was relying on AI overview to find out that unwieldy was a synonym for cumbersome. I would have never see, I still go, I would put the sarus. com Yeah That's am. Are were you using ass Jeves until a couple of weeks ago? It wasn't off the table. Thesaurus. comot You don't go to theaurus d. com No Oh man, no. Jel. Whenever I'm writing inter anymore, which is currently Like I have a story to put Three stories due sometime in the next, you know, two weeks And yeah, I'm usingthsource. com I thought everybody did that. Shout off thesource d. com and dictionary. com Yeah If you insist, I'll take your word for it Oh, But you understand as a consumer, this is enormously Convenient is if you The thing about the AI write up at the top is that And this could again, this is probably an age thing my wife has called me a Ludite, right U Is that the way you say it? Ludite? I always thought it was Luddite, but let's go with it. Okay, Luddite. I'll trust you on this Um I Like I don't trust that first initials thing that it spits out. Like I want to know and I'm going to the links I always want to go down a little bit further in the search. Like I just never accept the first them because I'm trained to think Is this some sort of a sponsored U Ad, is this, you know, where did this come from? I know that sometimes they get information wrong I don't know where, you know, where the source is. and so I kind of want to do that. but I think That could just be Years of skepticism about what I read on the internet. You know Well earned skepticism because it's often wrong Yeah. I've I've often said like what date did this sports thing happen? Yeah. I get an answer and then I double check it because I don't want to rely on the AI answer for something that would be in a piece or even on a podcast And it turns out just it's just completely wrong So but you and I are journists, right? Like're try we're trying not to put garbage into our stories or into our podcasts. Right. If you're a regular person Close enough sometimes is close enough. Unwieldy is indeed a synonym for cumbersome Well I was going to ask you. so you're doing this with your son and so like, what did you I mean, did you say, hey, we should look up We should go a little bit further down, see what the source d. com is talking about.aybe you should do that from going on. So you just accepted it. because you're training I know that that I know that those two words mean roughly the same thing. That' I I could verify that one on on my own. I just couldn't think of it at the moment Right. I mean, what do you so do you what do you say to your son? or your daughter about using the internet under those circumstances, then did you say that, Well, normally I wouldn't do this, but this seems, you know, fairly airtight here I'm not sure we had a teachable moment We had to get the homework done. We had to get the English homework done But if we had, you know, a kind of made for NBC in the eighties moment, I would have said son Don't rely on the Google AI overview. Click through the actual links because that will support Websites. putting actual content into the universe But how did I feel? I feel like I was shoplifted from. I feel like it was my car was broken into But I understand on the other hand on the other side of it why most people just don't care And it's going to be very, very difficult for us to convince them to care I mean, people and people are getting trained into believing the first thing that pops up, the first search result. It always has been like this though, right? Like it has always been difficult. to get people to click through, which is why websites and other junk advertisers, whatever' been trying to game the system to be the first result, right? Y. U so that's all this has always been an issue, but now it's not just that We don't know how verifiable this information is, now it's come by via robbery, right? And yeah, I don't I mean, that's not going to be a problem for us, but I fret about what it means for everybody you know, the generation of kids that don't They're not going to look on page three of their search results, right? And we It's not going to be a problem for us. We're still working, right I don't I know we don't rely on search in the way a lot of websites used to rely on search Yeah, sometimes ruinously so. You're talking about writing turning in a written piece of journalism I don't feel good about writing and I have not had access to Lexus Nexus and since I've worked at the Ringer And I don't feel good about it I want that You know, And so I will always go to newspapers. com or whatever else back likeike I just think that that's just going to be who I am and I want to Sometimes I feel like, oh man, I'm finding a really good link down here on page three or four that you know some people may overlook and you know click on whatever. But that's just how I feel. and not that's not better or worse. That's just how I am I'm skeptical Um I will I think I will probablyb always do that Now will my kid do it Will my kids do it I don't know. I'm going to try to give them that teachable moment who knows? W he What do you like what should we do about this Like we can' just let people steal from us, right Well, New York Times has filed lawsuits Yeah againgst AI companies I think that's one solution When that's happened in the past, there's always some accommodation. So it's almost like you get paid off and then you go away. Right. But the idea that You're just going to your labor is going to turn into This, you know, just grist for the for the AI overview and for the ask Jeeve style questions that come after the AI overview is just, I mean, it's it's unbelievably to me, it's just it's insane It's so it's so stupid. likeike it's like, oh, well, why are we why are we doing this? Like what's the point of this? We can talk about grand media strategy and say, hey, don't rely on search G people to subscribe your podcast build a brand that's not just like, hey, you know we're throwing some bait in the water and we hope you find us, right? we want to we can talk about that, but as a As a moral proposition, I hat I got nothing. I got absolutely nothing for you. I just I mean, there's no way to pull your stuff off of Google ass soon, right? And I don't think anybody would want to do that even if They could just on the off chance that someomebody like me is out there trying to click through to links or whatever. but Yeah, when I blogged, I used to blog, you know, from like two thousand eight to twenty ten. I had my own blog and everything I didn't At that time, I had not gotten into the habit of going through Google. I had a blog role you know, and I would go through those blogs regularly and that's where I end in okay,. Google Reader was something that I use fairly regularly And of course, they took r of Google Readle, But I just wonder Again, if the people that can hear the sound of our voice, I hope you go to websites, man, because I try to do that Now, I've been trying to train myself over the last year or so to be like, what's happening over on New York Times. com I just want to see your front page, you know Click through Tixer I saw a headline on a actual website the other day. The headline was Dan LeBotard declares sports journalism dead That's from awful announcing They on it, man Aful amountcing They are on it . com dot com Now first when I saw the headline, I thought I don't know Did Dan Lebotard really say this And I listen to the clip and He was talking a lot about streamers and Stehven A. Smith headline might be a smidge A smidge too much M And maybe a smidge, you know, overplayed and then I went to the The YouTube to Dan Lebitard talking about this and The thumbnail headline was journalism is dead So I guess we can attribute that opinion to Mr. Lebotard. He absolutely said it It's funny. I have two reactions that one is I love that in a segment that is partially decrying hot takes That segment is named Journalism is Dad. Yeah. all of journalism is dead We all got to do to clip things, man. We all we all we're all playing a clip game. Those hot takes are tipting after all, are they gotot Not just for Stevenen A. Smith Hey man, I mean, fan du and everybody can they can't do it all themselves. We got you got to chip in, you know Anybody who writes think pieces, you're tempted to declare something dead because people We'll react to that Yes And I always like to fold in a little unfact checkable nuance into that discussion spports journalism is dying Yes is dying or even better twwilight of sports journalism Yes, the midday sun could shine again. This is the twilight of spports journalism Also, when you say sports, journalism is dead or just journalism is dead Every living journalist sees that headline I can't wait to Oh my God. didnidn't you in your mind picture Don Van Nett on the other side of Miami spontaneously combusting Oh man. I mean he saw that awful announcing headline I mean, you know there's just, you know, a twenty seven year old working in Chilioy, Ohio 's like I go to I cover city haall and Pps. s I do all that every day. There's no way sports is dying, you know, but You know, when u I'm trying to remember what year it is that Nas did the song Hip hop this day. What's your favorite Nas song Oh, um, yeah. Yeah, hard to tell probablyro that. Sure. That was that's I was going to say. Good song. goodood song. U He did he did an album, whole album called Hip Hop is Dad It was it came out the end of two thousand six. And then when they pressed them about him, he wass just saying, Well, no, really, it's kind of dying and you know, I want to bring it back to the art and everything else. You know, now's talked like a how New York rapper talk And That's I felt like that's what Dan Leitar was doing. Like it was like it was an An outrageous thing to say to get people's attention But I think the the problem with it though, is that anybody who cares about it already sort of knows And so You saying it like that. I don't know. I mean, again, it feeds into the clip farm Um But you know, but you know, the other thing that kind of is kind of weird, you know, you you founded Metadalg Media. You have You means are not you, Brian Curtis. You're not Brian Curtis. unless I You've left out some things in your biography U You're the person that Greenlit and brought over Pablo Torere finds out that just want a pulitzer Right? The sport was it was it was it sports jouran? It was It was as a pullitzer for for podcasting. and then he also won a National magazine awward for podcasts. Yes,. I mean it premised largely on the idea that journalism is what keeps our show going. It's not the show's necessarily about Jordan, Hudson. it's about, you know, the the inmates and the last You know, theyre they're fandom with the clipperspps vond this. Yeah, the clipper stuff, right So I'm just like, well, I mean What do you I mean, how would Pablo feel about that, you know Sure. And also like, what are we going to do about it? To ask the question you ask about Google If we think sports journalism is dead or dying or in its's twilight Shouldn't we be acting on that? Yeah. Well, I mean, if you think it's dead or dying and you kind of you said it's in's twilight. I mean, that's sort of, u We sort of accept it the fate, right? Like I mean, But why why should we do that? I mean, I remember Jamelle Hill when she started being a talker at ESPN instead of a writer at ESPN. She had this great term. She called herself a former journalist acknowledging that while she was still doing her job conscientiously. There were people in locker rooms Digging stuff up that were doing a very, very different job than she was doing Of course, what's changed since then that was almost ten years ago now is A lot of us have become former journalists talking on podcasts more than we're writing. Absolutely. talking about things, fussing about things instead of doing Capital J journalism you and I very, very much included in this Why if we're former journalists to one degree or another, why can't we just do journalism takes too long It's really hard. Okay. well, then, you know, obviously it's death is not that important. if it's all it takes too long. Well, and also I think the people the one of the big problems in the subteext of the Dan Leatar conversation was how athletes and people in sports regard sports journalism And Um I think that Professional sports teams, even though a lot of them within their contract, their player contracts, they mandate media access I think a lot of them are doing their part to squeeze out media and make us less relevant and kill us. undoubtedly true And so like Jalen, you know, again, once upon in time, Jayalen Brown would have spoken to that whatever Whatever it might have been Dan Leatard, to be honest. I mean, you know, shit fifteen, twenty years ago and talk to him about how he felt about the season and to clarify his comments about You know, this was the best season, you the most fun season I've ever had and all that other sort of stuff. But now Jayen Brown and he said it in his stream. You know, I can I can talk right to my people right here. I can go live right here from the comfort of my own home. And so Yeah, I don't know. I mean, the only thing I figure and it just seems, I mean it seems both futile And like I'm covering myself and like False Glamor or fallse glory. I don't know what the term I would say here, but I'll just keep doing try to do some journalism when I write. That's. That's what we can do I think it's word defining what sports journalism is If we're making declarations about something's death Because right now I would propose to you that if you just take podcasts podcast not written work. There is more sophisticated commentary about what's happening in the NBA confference finals out there than there has ever been in human history. That sir. That's tr.ir. You and I are from the newspaper here It was an awesome time to grow up when the Louisville Courier journal could send a reporter to the NBA finals. And they would actually sit courtside instead of fifty thousand feet in the air, you know, looking down like they were watching television. And you would know who they are too, by the way. S. You were journalism. Yeah. R. That was really that was a really cool time. But would I would propose to you that When people are breaking down NBA games in incredible detail And with an incredible sophisticated knowledge of the game, they are doing journalism I'm not writing them out of the journalism category. There go. They may be doing a podcast They may be like You know, SGA needs to step up That's journalis I'm sorry. It just is. likeike I'm not I'm not going I'm not going to push those people out of the category because It's not written or it's not a particular kind of journalism Now if you if you tell me like, hey fewer and fewer people actually being sent to the game and going into the locker room or at least the media room after the game If you tell me, it's much less likely we get an in depth profile of Jayalen Brown in twenty twenty six than it would have been in two thousand six or certainly nineteen eighty six Absolutely true If you tell me it's harder to publish stories that Annoy or piss off The people who are running these leagues, the people in power Okay. We can talk about that There's a lot of journalism out in the world And I don't I don't accept the idea becausecause it's not a particular form that we're missing a particular thing that journalism writ large is dead. Right. And also, I mean, I think you guys talked about this that you know Um I think Jayen Brown was taking a very sort of that in the way that I just was a second ago, taking a sort of very narrow of what journalism was. Like he has an idea of what journalism is R? And it may not necessarily line up with what we think it is But like he he he seems to recognize that What Stevenen A. Smith was doing here? That's not what I consider journalism, but it could be that seeen a Kinney Beacham Stream. is something that he considers to be journalism or whatever. and the ideals undergird it. But he was specifically pointing out Stephen A. Smith is somebody that didn't practice it. And I was like, well, you know, at least You know, he At least he was interested. I don't know if it was, you know, just It was know, a sort of a deflection in an argument, but he seemed to care about journalism and like how the relationship that media has with its players I'd be interested in him going one by one through the people he sees in the Celtics locker room every week and being like Is that a legitimate journalist? Is that a legitimate journalist in your mind? Is that person practicing journalism? And I don't think he's different than any player in the history of the NBA other than he has an Instagram account and Twitch stream.. Like if we went again, if we were up to eighty six Celtics and like As Larry Byird and Kevin Mcale, is that a legitimate? Is Dan Saughnessy okay? Is Bob Ryan okay? I really Yeah, we get some really varied answers on that But so I don't I don't know how much stock to put in that. You know, I think a lot of times I don't think it's I don't think his opinion is not worthy or not interesting If you're the person who is covered, you have lots of different opinions. The Steveven A part of it is very interesting. and clearly that's part of what Dan Lebtard is talking about. Isaiah, can we run this second clip here here is Dan Lebtard on Stehven A and ESPN? I and we came up in a generation where ESPN decided to give the journalists the nerds voices that mattered and that became the norm. The way that we use those voices are now different and Stehen A in order to stay ahead of everybody else has to evolve the way things are said in order to stay ahead of everyone else that he's competing with. And that is a contaminant that makes the divide even larger than it's ever been before So I think it's really interesting what he's saying. and I think he's certainly right about ESPN Mhm go back to the John Walsh days when like we're getting Chris Mortenson in here. We're getting Tim Kirchin in here. We're gettingting Dan Lebitard and Stehen A. Smith in there. John Clayton. Yeah Absolutely And then Stehven A with Skip Baylis, another former print guy. ' able to create first take and are able to show ESP in this different path which leads us to ESP and hiring Pat McAfee. ight and leads ESPN att least part of ESPN in a different editorial direction change things, right? Like that changed things within inside of ESPN part of what Labrat's reacting to I think we're talking about what killed is killing is putting sports journalism into its twilight Stephven Hay wouldn't be in my top ten Not at all. I don't if you know if he'd be in my top twenty I just don't like I understand like I don't consume much of it unless we're talking about it on the podcast I don't love it. I've purposely ignored whatever is happening between him and Jalen Brown with all my heart I haven' tried to ignore that story But Stehven H. Smith killing sports journalism Man, again, he'd be way down my list of culprits. I feel like that's just I mean,, you know, we all become old And I feel like that's Dan Lbtar being an old guy complaining about something. that he doesn't like I mean, and really the thing is You don't have to blame skipping Skiin and Steven A. You know who you could blame for all this Mike Wilbond and Tony Kornheiser, they provided the bottle for all that. Ething that flows from from that from the from parton to interruption Like gave birth to everything else. It was like, oh, we could just have two sports riders on here arguing with each other. and sometimes the story is about the story itself and sometimes it's about the relationship between those two people. And we talk about that here all the time Brian, that like a lot of podcasting is, you know, the relationship peopleeople caring about the relationship between the two people I' listening to. So You know, I do find it interesting that people always go to Stephven A. Smith when all he did was All he did was basically get into the position of of Tony Kornheiser and Mike Wilbond and people decided We like seeing more of him or We're going to watch more of him and they elevated him in a way that, you know Tony and Mike they still have a very successful show, but they decided ESP decided, let's ride with the Steveven A thing Or I think you can think. I don't love what he does. I don't even like what he does Broadly speaking, that's not why we're That's what I'm saying I don't know what their relationship is at one time They seem to have a pretty good relationship. when I listen to the Lvtar show regularly like Stehven A. Smith would come on And sometimes it would be as a result of Dan saying something like this, right I don't know what the state of their relationship is, but It makes me wonder if Dan is ' an old angry guy And he found he found a scapegoat that everybody can agree to. Stepven Stehven A. Smith has a lot of people who watch him, but it's also really easy to score points hating on him Sure now But here's the other thing Think about their approaches to their job Mh Stephven A. Smith sees somebody like Jayen Brown or LeBron or KD just fill in the name a person he doesnn't like is the right way to say it But a person he's like, you're doing things the wrong way He's going to create a moment He's going to position himself against a person on the air and turn it into a feud What did Dan Lebitard do? when he saw a player that was deemed problematic cancer He went and wrote an ESPN cover story about that person. ESP in the magazine cover story, where he was like, I actually want to listen to you Yeah. I want to explain who you are. I'm going to argue that if maybe you're not right about everything, maybe you're not, you know Maybe you are what the people say you are, but you deserve to be heard and your point of view deserves to be understood That's how Dan Leepotar. So it's almost like the exact opposite approach. It is, it is. but I mean, again, I don't think And again, I don't want to come off as if I'm defending Stehven A here because I found two real problems with what happened here, but before I get into that, I was like I thought Stehen Aay this started out fairly innocuously. It started out with Stehven A. Smithney like Please be quiet. Like donon't say what you said at the end of the season because it gives people it opens up people to attack you. And because like Stehven A. Smith is not a delicate person. He doesn't talk You know, there's not a lot it's not opaque. likeike what he says is very clear And wait I think I said that right. anyway. But the point is is that Stepehven A Smith like when he says something like be quiet, some people read it differently and they get offended and they're inclined to get mad at Stehen A. And so Jalen Brown responded to Steven A Jayen Brown probably would never respond to anybody else like that in media. Like It wouldn' be worth his time. wouldn't help his stream. And I'm sure that like there's an element. he's trying to build out his own audience You say something about Stehven A, you're famous enough, Stehven A may say something back and then boom. Now we people might tune in next time for the Januine Brown live stream. So I didn't think even even the thing that happened with Steven A is that once Jaylen Brown went at him It left the realm of journalism Right? And like I think anybody can relate to certainly me. If somebody's talking shit about me on the internet, sometimes I feel inclined to respond. You leave the realm of journalism as well? I leave the realm of journalism as well. Yeahes. And so Stehen A went there and I don't like But haven't just seen this with Stehven A like five times? Like I understand what you're saying and I agree with it, but I'm just like, doesn't this happen with him in LeBron? Do' this happen all the time? Yeah, Katie. Okay. So I'm at some point, maybe I'm just I just I just am used to it Right. Well J just one said. So which's which again so what's the big why did why did journalism start dying today Why is it did today then? Well the other thing they talked about was shobs in the Amazon. Story. Sas broke the NVP on Sunday instead of letting Amazon talk to it and Blake Griffin said, Hey, you nerd, go have brunch To me, it was such a funny story because obviously Blake Griffin was making a joke. R peopleeople just look at videos on Twitter now they don't click through. They look at videos on Twitter. he's really mad at that other person. I'm like, if you're watching something that's on a sports television show or a podcast, the people are probably performing. or they're just being ironic or whatever it is, they're probably not actually mad. I don't believe Blade Griffin was mad on behalf of Amazon executives Exactly. And also turning shams into you know, somebody who's exposing scientology or writing the loooming Ter. He was reporting something that was going to be broadcast a couple hours later anyway. Right. L like come on. like that now he's the journalist hero. Yeah. I was going to say like it's kind of funny because if anything shums, I mean, I could not do what he does. There's clearly a way clearly has amazing sources. But he's an example of what why people might say that sports journalism is dead because some people think of him the way I mean we just had a whole argument about the way sources are procured in media. We talked about Diana Rusini and Olivia Newtsy. like that's just in the last cou of years. it And so You know, I don't when I when I hear shams, I don't think journalists even. I don't That's not I think I feel like he's working in concert with, you know The Lion whatever people at the legal I mean, he couldn't report that and burn his sources Right Like somebody clearly he has somebody within the league very close league sources and he puts that out there. Like he can't do that and risk ruining his source. So I feel like he's working in tandem. and yeah, just I didn't make much of the Blake Griffer comment in short. To go back to the former journalist thing, I think where Lebotard is is right on is there are certain stories that have gotten harder and harder to find homes for in sports writing I don't know that was ever easy You know, if we go back to the outlets that we were like, boy they were doing great work you know Sure they were. Were they doing it every day or every week in the case of spports Iillustrated Were they really press, you know, leaning in. No, they were they were picking their spots is the answer to that question Is it harder now where Everything is, you know, cross owned by everything else where, you know, you don't have media outlets as many media outlets that can stand on their own two feet financially. Well yeah where players have an Instagram account and don't need us You know, there's just there's very little in it. You hear then Jalen Browns, but it's very little in it for him to talk to with the media because it just doesn't matter who don't even need documentarians to make documentaries because they can just produce it on their own and make a sanitized version. watch? Yeah. All that's real All that's real. What I would just say to all of us former journalists, who are listening is we can help. we're not We are not, you know, without recourse here Right? If we're worried about the state of journalism, we can do journalism We We are capable of that. I think that's true, but I also just have to face the reality that I think The reason sports journalism is dying is not because of any one individual actor. It's not Stehen A. Smith No that Diana Russini. Nope It's about peopleeople who say, I don't want to spend money on that. I don't want to spend. I don't want to send a reporter on road trips. I don't want to have features writer in sports. I don't we don't need a second columnist That kind of stuff. And you're speaking from editors. We can go to Craigs list, you know, takaking away advertising from newspapers. You can go for dumb newspaper executives thirty five years ago who didn't see the internet coming didn't and didn't, you know fortify their news outlets as the world was changing ight We can name a billion things that have gotten us here today. Yeah. I don't think I don't think journalists are failing. I mean, they're individual journalists that are failing. But as a whole, I think we are responding to the market and trying to work with the market. And the market is telling all the people pay usR paychecks It's not worth it Right? And then the incentivive say to survive, I need to be try to be more like Stehven A. Smith or Dan Letard or you know, Brian Curtis God, ha't help anybody who follows that last piece of advice. Speaking of, you know, fabulously influential and wealthy men Brian, did you happen to catch the Jeff Bezos interview on CNBC? He has more money than Stehen A. Let's put that. you think on the record. Oh if Jeff Bezos woke up with Stehven A. Smith's money He would somebody would have to die It's like he like morefolio Yeah, like I just crashed. Yeah I'm going somebody is going to get hurt U, But yeah, no Bezos who is I think the fourth wealthiest person in the world right now S now recently with Andrew Rossorkin, the financial columnist for the New York Times co anchor of CMBC Squk boox For an interview that comes in in about an hour and I would say it was fairly comprehensive. I mean, it covered Bezos' thoughts on how much taxes billionaires should pay, working with President Trump, the need for more data centers, the Melania documentary and perhaps More importantly for our purposes, Brian, rununning the Washington Post. Let's Isai, can you play clip here? Why w people up? Why fire people Why do you even stepbsidize the business? If can Be the post needs to be profitable enterprise that stands on its own to feet. not going to be Yeah, mean, that's a question. Let be people say it to be And let me tell you why. Okay becausecause it's a measure of its relevance. If people won't pay for our product We're not doing it's not a good enough product. It's like, you know doing It would be like pooetry without rhyming, it's too easy. We want it's got to be something that people will pay for because that's a signal It's a signal that we're providing a relevant service aper the Newor Times You you guys make a ton of money You guys are doing very well financially, and you're providing a service that people are willing to pay for We can do that too. So Brian, first of all, poetry without rhyming really easy. I assume that's news to poets But what did you think of what he said here Um Boy, there's a lot there Number one I don't I don't think it's crazy that to think that media outlets should support themselves or mostly support themselves. Because as we've been down this road If you don't you are relying on the whims of Jeff Bezos h And he decides like I don't want to lose fifty million dollars a year anymore than Here come the cuts. So I totally understand that But right after that, I would say Why is the Washington Post losing so much money becausecause you kncapped the Washington Post because you decided to turn its opinion section into a conservative slash libertarian slash, whatever opinion section that has these really lame videos they're putting on Twitter and drove away a bunch of the paying customers. Well that's kind of the thing that's interesting to me. You're the fourth wealthiest person in the world. you're The jobs creator, this genius who everybody has sought out their opinions on the world What Why didn't you make it better? You bought it You've you've had it for over a decade now. So You did make it better at one point Right? Like I mean, you poured a lot of money into it and reaped the benefits. And now things have turned bad. And you're like, yep, well you guys have gott to make money. Well I mean, what was your role in that Like you said, like I mean, he's what he made all these other decisions, but you're the business genius guy So make it work That's what's so crazy to me. He bought the post in twenty thirteen And think about that. Now the post the post had some big yearsars in there with Marty Barron The post has failed to innovate like the other paper he mentions there' the New York Times. Yeah. It's failed to innovate like Amazon It was not clear to me in when I was, you know, ordering books on Amazon over dial up internet in the nineties that that site would become a movie studio that would be making James Bond movies. That's right. that that site would essentially become blockbuster video where I can rent a movie for three dollars ninety nine cents, actually zero because we have the weird Amazon credits that we're always getting. The movies always seem to be free all the time He's talking about it and it's like, well, where's where are the innovations like the New York Times says Yeah. I mean, you could have I mean I mean, presumably You could have head Wirle You know what I mean? you could have bought the athletic? There's nothing stopping you from doing that. Absolutely not. You could You could do all kinds of things. Yeah. You haven't done it. You could try to you could have tried to keep Ezra Klleine back in twenty fourteen or you could have brought Ezra Kleine back. Yeah The idea that You know, and again, like the Washington Post like why how the Washington Post got here has almost as many Culprits is how did sports journalism get here It's not all of Jeff Bezos's fault. The post was in bad straightits before he showed up U the post has had a lot of bad executives you know, that but the thing is that in the Bezos during the Bezos years He signed off on those people. I mean, you said they had lots of bad executives. Under your reign, they lost all this money and you had to lay people off. So are you not the bad executive That's the thing that always just sort of annoys me about media layoffs And I'm going to get on a soap box here, I'm sorry. But People getate the employees, the journalists, they work for very little money oftentimes And they tried to make happen what their managers tell them and the bean counters tell them to do. We're going pivot the video. You're going to write shorter, you know, write shorter pieces, file from, you know, tweet from the the scene of the story that you're writing on. They do all this stuff. Right? And then when it all goes bad, all the ideas you had or the ideas you copied from somebody else fail here too You lay off all those people They did their work and blamed them for it I don't I don't hear a lot of responsibility for what I fucked up This is my fault and I'm sorry. and it hurts me that I had to lay off a lot of people in this terrible economy. just That was terrible. It made me think, Brian, I'm like Why are you doing this L why you like why are you talking to in the first place Oh, why are you talking to Andrew Rossorkin? Yeah. I think unaccountable people recognize the need to be accountable once a year Right. they all give like one interview And may and maybe this is it U And he is, you know, he's we've heard about these these moments where he's talked to people at the post and, you know, been a little more couldn't be any less, but he could be a little more present somehow in the running of the paper. Yeah. But I don't know. when you talk about like taking responsibility, the one idea we know He has his fingerprints all over Not through a publisher or through an editor, but he himself, Bezos has his fingerprints on is the opinion section which has Dozens and dozens of views on the videos they put up on YouTube. You be shitting on their YouTube channel. I mean, it's hilarious, right? And like it didn't work L. You got to pick the person to run it You got to you got to pick its editorial direction, which seems to be all going one way and then also will Leach is still writing for the section I learned today. Yeah Yeah well still we'll still we'll still going strong over there. So that's interesting But like you did that and and it hasn't worked. No no people are like, I don't don I don't want this Yeah. this is this is something I want to watch. Right something I want to consume. Okaykay You're the one also that decided to not endorse a candidate in the election. And that had a lot of consequences too. In fact, I would argue that's what the hemorrhaging really started then Right? Yeah, I mean, There I mean, there was there was a massive loss of blood when that happened. Yes I think the post was already losing lots of money before that happened. That's true. That's fair. Obviously like a huge number of subscribers chased off at that moment. We're like, this is't the place for me and may never come back becausecause now they've been told this isn't it. when you said why is he doing this? I thought you were going to give it to the question of why does they still want to own the Washington Post So Andrew ask him that question. And he says you know, my vision is to make sure that the post is the post it was And he talks about how it was unprofitable when he bought it. And the newsroom is even small, you know, the newsroom was smaller back then and he done some things. But he doesn't really give an answer to why he list all this data. And that was one thing that kind of kept coming up again over and over again during the interview when he was talking about the average salary of a nurse in Qeens and how much the average York New York City school student gifts per person per per year. I think it was like forty four thousand. He had memorized a lot of stats Right And he had a lot of data on hand and he was ready to spit that back out at people and be like, I did make it profitable once again. But he doesn't really answer why he has it. And I wonder if he doesn't know or maybe Not that not that somebody is forcing him to own it, but I wonder if it's like If he sells it, to somebody He doesn't want it to die on his watch, but also like Trump's kind over his shoulder. If I had to guess, I would say There's a value in that opinion section being neutralized for the next two and a half years probably a value. Now that isn't say that isn't to say that the paper does pisses Donald Trump off all the time. the actual paper. Yeah by reporting, by breaking stories by, you know, pointing out all, you know, doing all kinds of things that Donald Trump doesn't like. Now doesal Donald Trump say, Ohh, I understand Jeff. you can't, you don't have anything to do with that. It's just the opinion section that's now much friendlier towards I don't know That's the only guess I have because at this it he doesn't, he doesn't seem interested in it at all. ye, I mean and it's and it's become You know, a drag on his other clearly on his other you know on his I't know if it's a drag on his assets, but it's at least threatens to be a drag on his assets. So why would you own it at this point I know. I mean the thing is though, who out there can who out there can buy it That's An another great question So always, you know, it's like There's always a worse owner around the corner Do you think the Washington Post is worth more than box You think somebody will paay three hundred million dollars for the Washington Post? What did Bezos pay for it? two hundred do Something like that. I want to say Where's two fifty? Is two fifty two fifty That that's And that was and that was a while back. Yeah I don't know. I don't know what anything's worth now That's tough. I mean, I just, you know, he could He could let it go but clearly he won't. But the thing that I've been just I want him to take responsibility. You are you're the innovator. You could have innovated You didn't have to wait until things were failing to be like, let's try this AS stuff or whatever. Maybe we don't, you know, I just always find that to be interesting. There's like the time to innovate is when all the other shit I was doing is failing You know. So anyway, it's a it's it's unfortunate And he he said some monthsuff too. I mean, speaking of Trump He said that this second time around that Trump has been a quote, more mature, more disciplined version of himself. Okay. D you say Trump too is a more disciplined version Trump won There's an argument that he's right but only if you want all the things that are happening. byy which I mean Trump is like, The discipline is like, I'm not going to get suckered into hinding all these like Republican Funkies. I'm Trump is accomplhing his goals in a more disciplined way. Yeah, he's like I'm going get I'm going to get all everybody around me has to be down for me They can't have been here with anybody before, and I don't care what it takes And that that is the definition of discipline. That's what maybe that's what he meant, but it would have been Nice to hear, you know, talk a little bit more about that All right, I'm thoroughly depressed On a happier note Here is our man on the Wimby beach. All right, Joel, let's bring in our special guest Mike Finger has the rare distinction of being a great guy on the page and a great guy in the press box. That's right. He like a legend. Not that many people can say that. He is a columnist at the San Antonio Express News He's here to talk about Wimbyania which he has witnessed at a distance of less than seven feet and four inches Mike, welcome to the press box it's so great to be here. I've known Joel a long time. I've known you a long time. J just an absolute honor. Really excited. All right, so Wimbi had only Oly twenty one points and seventeen rebounds in game two truly a pedestrian performance T take us back to game one of the Western confonference fininals, what was it like to experience that pull up three pointer from press Row It's just you go back to as long as we've known of the Wimby phenomenon, right? fromrom the very beginning. I saw him play hisis first game in the United States as an eighteen year old Uh, when it was the it was an exhibition against Scot Henderson in Las Vegas. And every time it's like, This guy cannot possibly live up to this ridiculous hype. The hype is just out of control It's unfair It's it's absurd. And then he just meets the moment time and time again. and The thing about him is he not only meets the moment, but he recognizes how to make the moment even more iconic if that makes sense. L he has a he has a very self aware understanding of just the absurdity of him and where he is in the world. and to see him not only perform on the court and pull up from thirty five feet. with twenty seconds left on the shot clock and thirty seconds left in the game and take a shot that could have lost the spurs that game Um, it's it's it's really it was something else, man So Wimby musing on the MVP snub was the headline from his game one presser. What is he like in an interview setting It's it's Sort of surreal at times. The day before he was drafted by the Sant Antonio Spur he sat in his own ballroom in downtown Manhattan. He was the first NBA draft prospect ever to get his own ballroom. All the other prospects were in a different one When Be had his own And he said A first for any future current or past member of the San Antonio Spur, he said, I want to be the best at the press conference which Ki Leard never said that. I don't know if that's breaking news. Tim Duncan never said that But he wants to he wants to be great at it. and Um, you know, it's a second language moments whenever He doesn't know a word or an idiom or a phrase, and he will ask you to clarify it because he wants to get it right. He has this U he has a desire Um to be Well perceived. He cares about how he's perceived Um, with the same authenticity, I think that Tim Duncan did not care how he was perceived. L like it matters to him. Some people might see it, you know, is that fake No, it's just he knows what his image is. He cares about how he answers every question. He knows how it affects his status as maybe the future face of the league. And to be able to interview a guy like that, it's it's, I mean, it's night and day from the Kawai days from the Tim Duncan days who were. I mean, Tim Duncan is real. Victor Wimbenyama is real. They're just real in really different ways. And If you're a reporter looking to fill your notebook and by the way, if you're a reporter looking to fill your notebook, you're probably pretty old because no reporters carry notebooks anymore. But Victor's your guy. Just again, in a second language to be able to always give you what you need. It's pretty special So when it became clear that the Spurs were going to take oneB with the number one pick, which I mean Once the Spurs got that number one pick, I mean, there was no question about what was going to happen from there Rockets had the same damn draft eyes as U, but You know, you talk about like the privilege it is to cover him and like how good he is with the medias And so it's clear that Wimy being there is better for you than if it was just like Dylan Harper Fon Cast. So what did you like for your own career? like what has like Wimy being there for youant? For your career the interest in dispse because I can only imagine it must have been night and day from the years that preceded it. Well just getting into the behind the scenes u media circus, which This is a franchise I didn't cover all the way back to the first title, but I was around for the last four titles The Spurs were the team that everybody respected that the national media always came and covered in May and June. U but no one was really excited about this first being there. like Adams David Stern, Adam Silver They weren't doing cartwheels with for another like sppurs, pistons, spurs, nets type finals. now The most striking thing is This is kind like San Antonio's never had this. The Spurs are kind of the cool franchise And they're the glamour franchise and they're the team that The national networks are excited to get to broadcast and in terms of the media coverage, in the old days, it was the San Antonio Express News talking to Greg Popovich basically one on one after a lot of regular season games talalking to Tim Duncan one on one after regular season games Now you have, you know, ESPN's there full time, the athletic NBA. com was there for a while. We have French reporters living in San Antonio now year round. I mean, it's a contingent everywhere you go. And when you travel the league around the league It is the event. It's the media event in New Orleans in Memphis and Orland tho and Mil, not necessarily Milwaukee, but you know, places where you normally would not get any reporters coming in to interview San Antonio Spurs before after a game. They are they are waiting for the WimB phenomenon now. and that has been Kind of an adjustment for the Spurs as a franchise to be considered the glamour team that way. and it's The nuts and bolts of the Spurs way are still there The way they do business kind of in a, you know, the there's there's a through line back to RCB for Greg Papoich Tim Duncan, even before that David Robinson all the way through now. they they've had the same GM and president for a long, long time Only their second coach in three decades But it's the personality makeover is really notable and it's been something to really behold A any funny stories you can share about those national or international reporters swooping in to do their WMby features? Well, it's just everybody thinks they have the original idea, the original question that hasn't been asked yet And they're good questions It's just they most of them have been asked twenty times. And now we're getting to the U Western confonference finals part of the post season where really good reporters are coming in and asking really good questions and asking, you know, Mitch Johnson U have you ever noticed that that players kind of will dribble into Wimby and dribble away. and it's like, yes, we've noticed that that has been a thing that has happened for ree years now and I mean I will say Weemby's ability to handle The same question over and over again again and find kind of new ways to answer it is pretty unique and appreciated. He does post game. every game. he doesn't do a lot of the between game stuffs that Steph Curry and LeBron James used to do but to be available every night and to do an English portion and a French portion. is pretty good. and as a One thing I will say just sports writer wise, you kind of have to pay attention to what he's saying in French too. I don't I haven't picked up the language, but I have a good relationship with we all have a good relationship with the French guys who are around It was just a couple weeks ago, you might have seen the quote out there that went viral, that went viral Not in English, but the French reporter Maxim O'Banne, who's now a San Antonian and has lived here for a couple of years asked Wemby about the idea that he shows his personality too much and that does that make him soft? And And Weimby had said in French I don't feel the need to carry the burden of hiding my emotions And that's kind of like the quintessential wimby thing of He's showing what he feels in a way that Tim Duncan didn't coiilen or didn't. a lot of guys haven't And he just doesn't see the need to be fake And you see that with the way He says things in his French accent that I think would be perceived as cocky or full of himself if he said it in LeBron James' voice or you know Coi Leonard's voice. He's able to say I want to be the best player of the world and just be matter of fact about his greatness and people sort of consider it charming in a way. And that's that's been an interesting dynamic to watch unfold too And him talking about SGA and the MVP, that's part and parcel of that. Yeah, exactly. I mean He constantly surprises and it shouldn't surprise you anymore But we're all, Joel, Brian, you both know this. We have this sense during a press conference of a question that isn't going to work Like you the question of how much do you want to win the MVP Um How much did this individual honor mean to you? We're programed to think, well, here comes a cliche. Here comes the it doesn't matter to me, even though it obviously matters to everybody. Windby will just skip the cliche and go to, yeah, I really want to win the MVP. should have a I should win the MVP instead of SGA And that I just can't think of many other players who have been able to do that. I mean, you think of boxers, right that are that are talking about how the best in the world. Not many players self promote like he does and that's almost like an unfair term to use self promote, it's just honesty And we we always say we want honesty from athletes, right? honesty from interview subjects. It's hard to get on them for being full of himself if that's the honest take Well, you know, you're talking about Wimby and what I guess the best way to say this is generosity with the media, right? that that's a It's rare and he really puts effort into it You came up in San Antonio under a guy who had a very different relationship with the media. Yeah Greg Popoz, right And first of all, I'm just curious about like, What What has it been like to go from from Papovich? to to Wimby, but also like what is it what's up with pop right now, man? I mean, obviously people, you know, how much is he still around the team? What's going on there We see Pop have not talked to Pop since I think two days before the stroke There was a lot of concern for a while. He he showed up one of the most incredible sports performances I've ever seen in my life is the day He finally u retired And he showed up. He had been recovering, rehabbing from a stroke that I think was more serious than they wanted us to believe early on U he they were introducing Mitch Johnson, who he blessed as his replacement at the team facility. This was about a year ago Almost exactly a year ago last May and He had not been in public He had not spoken at all in months. The stroke happened the October and November before But he wanted to be there. to show that Mitch Johnson had his blessing, to show that he was he was supportive of the next chapter. And he he came out podium they had set up the Praactx facility. And he looked terrible. I mean, he was barely moving He looked like a seventy five year old guy who had had some serious medical trauma and Tim Duncan was over one shoulder, Mona Genobi was over the other shoulder There was a moment when he stood up there. no notes had not spoken in public in months and months gave the speech that he wanted to give And then there's this pause and there's this awkward Sveral seconds where you're expecting, oh, it's oh, he's not going to be able to finish this Like somebody needs to step in Tem Duncan stone faced over one shoulder. Manu Jenobi stone faced over the other. It's almost like they were letting him get through it the same way he had let them get through stuff. And he caught himself, he finished it up, he was eloquent I I mean, the risk that he took to go stand in front of people and knowing that he could just not be able to do it, it was one of the most amazing things I'd seen in person. And That's aong diversion from your question, Joel, but since then We have not really heard him speak. He's at the facility a lot. He does his rehab there. He's on the Stair master, the treadmill with with Tim and Manu and helping him out. He talks to Victor Wbinamo. we see him bring Roookies like Dylan Harper and Carter Bryan aside. He has conversations with them But the spurs are very clear about He is not like some Sengali whispering it into Mitch Johnson's ear and telling him about plays to run. And I mean, this is very much Mitch Johnson's team. It's very much a new chapter of the Spurs Pop is there to support, Pop's there to give guidance And they love having him around, but he is not, you know Calling plays Before you go, Mike, it's always funny to see a team like the Spurs arrive or almost arrive At least arrive in the Western conference finals. How do you see that reflected players when you talk to him after a game. It's it's It's not supposed to happen this way And that's been the theme of this season. You go back through the history of everyvery NBA champion Every NBA finals team U back to like Larry Byird and Magic Johnson, everybody you're supposed to lose first. You're supposed to ease your way into this thing. No no superstar goes to the NBA finals right away Especially a team that has not been in the NBA playoffs for six years to all of a sudden become a contender and the guys around Wimby haven't been there either. when When D Aaron Fox who's played in one playoff series For Sacramento King several years ago is your most experienced regular contributor in terms of post season. that's not much. And they just don't know any better And it's it's a breath of fresh air to see a group of guys that young who don't know they're not supposed to be there kind of act like this is what we thought all along And Victor sets the tone for that He saw this comoming a while back. I don't know know we're wpping up. I don't know if you want to hear the most self indulgent postgame interview story of all time. Please That's we here for. That's what just out. This is what' all about Um I covered the twenty four Olympics in Paris And which is a great investment by my newspaper. Newspapers don't do that anymore, but we wanted to be around Victure We wanted to cover his every move and covered All the for the whole two weeks in France. Just talk to him in the mix zone after games in Lill in Paris. He would come over, he'd talk to the group of French reporters And it was great. after the gold medal game which was an epic epic game against Steph Curry and LeBron James and Kevin Duran. Victor loses. I go down to the mixzone Wait for wait for Viictor Binama to come over U Sean Pell from nBA. com walks by and says, Hey, I think your guysy' going to the podium I said, Ohh I forgot about the This was only the gold medal game had a p So to get to the podium, I have to go out of the mix zone around this Bersi arena in Paris walked through another door to get there. I'm running I'm going crazy Like if I miss this then what what what are people going to think? That's why I'm here I'm stopped at the door to the press conference room by security. They said, you cannot go in. very important man is in there. I said, Yeahah, no, I'm supposed to talk to that very important man. I came across the freaking ocean to talk to that very important man. No, you cannot come. You cannot come The very important man comes by escorted by bodyguards. It's Emuel Macron, the president of France. So so he comes out. I get into the press conference room The press the press conference has started with French team coach Vansan Coet and Nicholas Batoom. Victor Wimbinyama's not there. I ask where is Victor They took him to the mixom So now I have to go all the way back around. U sweating just freaking the hell out because I'm going to miss this. I get back to this mix zone. It's completely empty except for a crowd of French reporters And Victor Wim Binyam and they're finishing up. And he's walking off. And I'm the only English speaking reporter there because all the Americans, the SPN and And the athletic and all them, they're talking to Steph and LeBron and Kie. They don't want to talk to Victure. I scre I ask Victor, can I have one in English? He stops He does me the biggest favor he's ever done me And I asked them a question about what he what he got from this. He's got the silver metedal around his neg And I said, you know the sppurs talk about the currency of this experience and how you're going to spend it later And he says You know, that this this meant the world leararning And I feel sorry for my opponents in a couple years And do you mean in phhoebe Or the NBA and he said everywhere And it's like that is why you cross an ocean is to get that cool And that's him living up to that moment. and And that is what I think of in weeks like this. That was a couple of years ago And now you feel sorry for his opponents. likeike he he's delivering on this absurd hype that he's helped build himself Um And I mean that I will never forget that until I die N not only him stopping to talk to me, but but delivering just like the ultimate money quote. and you think about it in Oklahoma City this week he's following through Mike finger Read them in the San Antono Express News, mayay your notebook if you still carry one. be filled with Money quotes like that. Thanks so much for coming on the press box Appreciate it All right. That's a press box. I'm Brian Curtis He's Je Anderson Ps magic by Isaiah Blakeley and John Romer. G've got a lot of content up at the press box this week, Joel M Yesterday I interviewed John Kraackhaower I saw man Climbing Mount Everest wrriting nonfiction. thirty years of into thin air Everybody should check that outbsute. Tomorrow in the old press box studio, Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark will'll be here Let me take all the questions You want to ask, Sarah and Sarah Let me know because I'll ask her. that will run as part of Tuesday show. So stay tuned for that We got regular programming next week use it a note No no big. I mean, who's the say? I mean, we look man, the real the real shit going on guys. is when Brian and I went LA, man We brought Connor in, we had a nice Italian dinner We don't It right over. What part of town is that Los Philles? Is that what that is? Los Phillas Yeahah. L Felas yeah, man. We were talking about ways to make the show better you know, and doing things getting more guesss And, you know, I feel like I've been getting hit up by people. You've been getting h by people and this is our shameless cry that, o, if you, you know, I'm just because you call it I't mean you donret to get on the show, but Reach out to us if you think you've got something off. Reach out to Joel actually. He'll be sorting through those Y for Allison. I for itison. Joel I'll see you next Thursday with more locwarm takes about them Look a forward somebody