Future of LeBron's Career

This summer, fan dool is the best place to bet on goals. Including equalizers, Uuh? Yeah, Petters. Every goal is worth more on fan dool. So let there be goals. New customers get three hundred fifteen bonus bets guaranteed when you bet five dollars for seven days. twenty one plus in presence and select states. First online real money wager only, minimum five dollar wager required for seven consecutive days, five dollars first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withrawable bonus bets, which expires seven days after receiivt r supplies, people terms at famamool dot com slash sportsard. Gambing problem call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset. Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of It turns out, it's more common than you'd think Heyrony's disisease, or PD for short PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis This can cause a curve or a bump during an erection and for some men, lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health It may also lead to anger and frustration impression, lower self esteem and even withdraw from sexual activity and physical intimacy Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about PD The actual cause of PD isn't always known In some cases, it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity The good news is PD is treatable. If you notice a curve with a bump, a trusted urology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment. To learn more about Pyroni's disease, visit talkboutpD. comot Hello media consumers. Wlcome to a special edition of the Press Box. Judish. Brian Curtis, along with producer Isaiah Blakey. There's a lot of NBA news going on right now draft Janis got traded to the heat There are probably a thousand New York Kicks fans taking a victory lap in Green Point as we speak But there's another transaction that we're waiting for. We're waiting for LeBron James to decide if he's gonna play next season and if he does play, where? Now waiting for LeBron is a rite of modern sports writing. We spent the better part of two decades thinking about LeBron's decisions and thinking about what those decisions say about him. So I thought it wouldd be fun. One last time G back and look at LeBron's moves across the NBA how we cover them And there's only one sports writer I wanted to have that conversation ESPN's Brian Winhorst ' covered James since he was in high school How did LeBron James get from to Cleveland to the Greenwich, Connecticut Bys and Girls Club to Miami and then back to Cleveland and then to Los Angeles How did that rewire basketball media? Welcome to the June issue LeBronze Final decision All right, Brian Wyinhorse is here fresh off hobnobbing with celebrities at MSG Of all the famous people that have come up to you over the years, Brian and said that they liked your work Which one made you the happiest? Oh my God, what a great question. You know, these moments sort of go in and out of my mind I mean, you know, I appreciate a nice talk with Tracy Morgan during the next playoff run Um I feel like there's something that I'm forgetting. I feel like I would be doing justice, not really doing justice. I will tell you one story which is that like last season, I was in a hotel in Los Angeles and I ran into God shham God, who was the assistant coach of the u U Dallas Mavericks at the time. now he's with the Nets, but he's with theavers famous in in you know, basketball circles for his wizardry with the ball and He was with this guy. He didn't recognize. He had a lot of nice jewelry on him. He said, Hey, my friend friends of fanars wants to get a photo And he kept calling him Jada, Jada, Jada s like, hey, Jaya, come with, you know, and so Ja I met Jaya was very nice guy. was happy to pose. We talked basketball for a few, you know, probably talked about the Lakers. And I took a photo with them and I moved on and I didn't think about it again. And then like two days later, one of my friends said, Why were you on Jadekiss's IG And uh, you know, Jada Kiss, of course, I just didn't I just didn't recognize them. so u I um Iw I was a fan named Jada. So But U I'm trying it's a really good question and I wish I had thought about it a little bit more, Not that I meet celebries every day, but U probably PGA golfers is probably who I I am most pleased to converse with. Really And they got ESPN on all day. They've got time. This is what Not all of them, not all of them, but you know, like some of them, you know, it's routine to see PGA pro sitting courts side events games especially in Florida So yeah, sometimes they want to talk about, you know, Rory McArooy wants to talk about who the heat might sign in free agency, etcetera So That sort of stuff, really more than anything. I'm boring. LeBron James is on the verge of making what might be his final free agent decision And I thought it'd be fun to go back through some of his previous decisions and see what sticks out in your memory and how you read them now, I thoughtought we'd start here. LeBron's first season in the NBA was two thousand three He was eighteen years old That was also your first season as an NBA beat writer You were twenty five years old What was the hardest thing about being a twenty five year old beatwriter in the NBA Um The volume of copy that you had to produce you know, basically, here's how it worked You basically worked seven days. I was at the Acron Beacon Journal, whicht didn't have at the time a designated You know, the big papers, the Cleveland Plain dealer You know, Chicago Tribune, you know, Dallas Morning News. They had people who were assigned to be like, you know, the backups to the professional beatriders. Sometimes the backup was the backup to several beatriders. They would be backup on the cowboys and back upp on the Mavericks or back up on the stars and backup on the Rangers or whatever And so you know, you got days off at least occasionally I didn't get days off. And so the way the pay worked was Um, the paper didn't want to pay me twowo days of overtime every week So I would get one day of overtime a week. And a day and a half of comp time Um, so, you know, a season is, you know, let's say a season is twenty five weeks or so U I would make about ten thousand dollars in overtime, which Felt like good money at that time And I would get, you know, in theory between the end of the season in April or May, you'd maybe work, you know, you'd work two weeks for the draft and a week or two weeks for a draft and free agency, basically over the course of like May, June, July, August, September, you may be had to work four weeks And that was deemed your comp time. And so I liked that schedule I liked it because it was almost like working like a school calendar. but it was seven days a week. you know, maybe every once or so a month you have a total off day because, you know You'd have to travel. you know, like, you know, maybe you were off on a Sunday after they played a back to back you know, in Milwaukee on Friday night and then You know, in Detroit on Saturday, but you had to travel back So I guess you're off, but you know, you're spending four or five hours traveling. So U that was It was a little bit daunting for me. I loved the travel. the amount of copy where it was like, and you know, you were expected to file every day So that means if you had an off day and knew you weren't going to be around the team, you had to plan two or three days out so that you would have something to file from the first day of the season to the last day of the season the B writers in those days were averaging probably two byy lines a day And now days, you know, people who do it, they file throughout the whole day and they tweet and everything like that. But back then that seemed like a daunting amount to produce Let's start with twenty ten. LeBron announces the decision uppercase on ESPN is going from Cleveland to Miami Where'd you watch the decision I decided to watch it in my house. Um I briefly First off I got very little information out of his camp as you can imagine that week. They were very tightly locked up. But the one thing that they were willing to say was that Don't take him doing it in Greenwich, Connecticut to mean that he's going to New York They weren't ruling out New York, but I feel like if they because I think that was sort of an initial thing. like m oh my gosh, he's down the street Um, so I so I pretty I had a pretty good feel that it was not going to be the Kicks U And I brootach the idea of A being allowed in to watch decision and be being able to talk to him after he made the decision. And I was told no And so I said that I felt there was no point in me going to Greenwich, even though I'm sure I could have gotten some sort of scene outside And so after being on the front lines of everything he'd ever done since he was fourteen years old, I watched it in my basement at home. And the one thing I remember about that was it was a high stressful day, as you could imagine. I pretty much confirmed by the afternoon or evening that he was going to Miami. I wrote a story saying that, but This was, I mean, Twitter existed, but People didn't get their news online. peopleeople didn't get their news on social media at that point. I think like highigh ninety percent of the audience had no idea and hit them out of the blue. For me, I I knew what was I knew what was coming. So you know, I guess there was always the possibility that the information was wrong or they changeed his mind But I knew it the I knew it was going to be and The thing I'll never forget is that when Dan Gilbert's letter was released And I got it in my inbox And I read it And Brian, I can't explain it to this day but I started laughing hysterically Um, there was nothing funny about it As you may remember There was not one intended humorous line and the whole document written in Comic Ss But I couldn't stop laughing. and I think It was some sort of you know, stress was like my mental reacting to, you know, just the entire process I remember talking to my boss and saying I'm not writing a story on this. We're running the entire letter as is U because there's no way to summarize that U I remember tweeting sections of it like I was, you know, you had one hundred and forty characters. So I was picking out sections of it and pasting it into to Twitter. And I think my followers that week went from about seventeen thousand to about thirty six thousand, which felt like a jaw dropping increase at the time Um, And, you know, just and like people not believing that this was real, you know, thinking that it was being made up. So but I was like hysterically laughing like could not see with my eyes, like had to go through a minute long laugh before I could even begin to, you know do my job about that about that letter I thought you were going to say you were laughing because you realized it was such a great copy Well, I think that's part of it. U But even that being the case, the hysterics I was in, which there was nobody there. I was in my basement by myself the hysterics were were were not Not rational. I'll just leave it at that certain mad sciist quality you in your basement watching reading Dan Gilbert's letter. It was good copy though. I'll give you that. LeBron, of course got crushed both for going to Miami and for using ESPN to announce his decision Sixteen years later, is there anything about the decision you think is misunderstood? Yeah. so first off, I think it was way ahead of its time and it's now The decision has become routine uh, for people now you know, that you know, concept with like, you know, the the, uh uh athletes announcing their college choice likeike it is is been repeated a million times was ahead of its time and I think The idea that he had the power to commommandeer an hour of television on ESPN is amazing I think the presentation was horrendous. And I think that one of the things that was totally lost in it is that they raised millions of dollars And in addition to not taking I wrote a book, one of the books I wrote about LeBron, I wrote about his business, about him how he became a billionaire And I interviewed a bunch of people who involved the decision. and You know, two things about the decision stick out to me. One Somebody involved suggested that they give the check, that they open with the check you know, when when they had like the big biggest audience when they came on the air that they basically say, Hey, listen, we're giving it was millions of dollars. I can't remember how much it was, but it was in the millions of dollars that they had raised from selling ads and I don't know if USPN made a donation or whatever, but It was a giant check and the and the money went to boys and girls clubs and all the cities where he was considering, you know, Chicago, Cleveland. I mean, it was actually a very altruistic thing, but I'll bet ninety nine point nine percent of the people you asked about the decision to have no idea about that And like I remember like later being told like, you know The Greenwich Boys and Girls Club got got a new roof. I don't know if that was the case, but one of them got a new roof out of it, okay? And so That was obviously one mistake. The second thing that was crazy was that whileile LeBron was waiting for the decision to happen, you know, he flew up to Grage a couple hours ahead of it Anye West shows up at the house. He was he was at this U I can't remember who who was the executive. He was at this executive maybe it was a with some banking executive or something who who would helped arrange this whole thing. It was a The reason it was the Bys and Girls Cub of Greenwich is because he was affiliated with that And anyway, with some mansion in Greenwich where LeBron was chilling before going over to the club And Kanye West found that he was there and Kanye just shows up I mean, I mean, it's, you know, now LeBron has, you know, for the last decade, LeBron has had a camera crew with him twenty four seven. I would have loved to have that footage of Kanye showing up and what was that conversation U Uh But I think it kind of distracted. I don't think they were quite locked down. U and what they needed to do for that. And you know, like by the way, Leon Rose was one of the architects of that. In fact, you know, there's footage of Leon you know, having a little conference with Jim Gray right before they went on the air like going over last minute u things, u So, u Leon's gone on to do some more impressive executions Um, but I will say that Leon Rose executing as a, you know, as a CA agent, executing Bosch Wade and LeBron in Miami It only comes second his career to execute the next fifty three breaking the fifty three year drought. Those are two pretty good things for the career resume. I think I think mean, I'm not kidding. Leon Rose should go in the Hlls Hall of Fame. And and those two alone. I meanm I'm not joking. I'm being dead serious. You should go in the Hall of Fame When LeBron went to Miami, you joined ESPN and you also went to Miami. What went into your lowercase D decision Well, I had been doing some freelance work for ESPN for three or four years leading up to that. ESPN staff was much smaller then than it is now and they didn't have anybody in Cleveland. You know, there wasn't any, you know, now we have writers spread out all over the place. And so whenever there was, you know, written content needed on the Braon, I provided it, you know, And so I had a basis working with them. And at the time ESPN had the regional sites, one in Chicago, one in New York, one in Dallas. One in Los Angeles, and maybe forgetting one. Uh, but it was, but, you know, the bosses there said, Hey, listen, if he go to Chicago or New York, which were', you know fininalists U We'd be really interested in talking to you about a job And He didn't go to Chicago and he went to Miami And so you know, that was july ninth or tenth, Ju you know, July passes August, I want to say august tenth or fifteenth, I leave for a month long trip around the world. I had planned this trip with my best friend for like nine months. U For the other podcasts that I'll do sometime in the future my travel podcast that doesn't exist I'll tell the story of how you know this one crazy moment that the Star Alliance made this terrible mistake and made these One of the greatest redemptions in the history of frequent fly or this round the world takeickup that I took advantage of. It's neither here nor there You can get that in the after notes or whatever, Brian, but Um I was in Thailand I was in the middle of around the world trip and one of the editors said, Hey, can you talk? And u I remember it took us a few big email back and forth to figure out the time. but I want to say like midnight or one in the morning In Pukette, Thailand, I took a Skype call And they offered me this job to go to Miami And Uh, you know, it was It was not something that I had ever envisioned, but I had to take it. I had to get out of newspapers And I had to take the CSPN job And um I remember like even though that was mid August, the deal didn't get done until October. And I started the season covering the calves and then midway through the training camp, I went and moved to Miami. like literally covered a cab's preseason game on a Friday, and Sunday night flew to Miami. And um really was not prepared for the change of life, really did not Um adapt well to Miami that first season. and LeBron could could absolutely Totally make fun of me for saying this. People could make fun of me for saying this Fine. I felt some level of kinship to LeBron that first year in Miami where he was completely uncomfortable. Livving away from Northeast Ohio for the first time in his life. I was living away from Northeast Ohio, first time in my life. Yes Um, he was completely different realm than me, okay? But we were both from Aacron, you know, He was raised in the projects. I was raised in a two parent home in the suburbs. I am not comparing myself to him. However, we both had similar pathways and when werere thrown to you know, to a different situation. And by the way, when I moved there and I got this apartment that overlooked the ocean U, you know, on the twenty third floor they had this sweeping view and it was seventy eight degrees It was one of the first year in Miami they had one of the best winters on record I mean, I didn't see a cloud, Brian from january fifteenth to march fifteenth Okay, It was like seventy it was perpetually seventy eight degrees. It was unbelievable the weather And so you're saying, what is your problem? Why would you not be overjoyed? And I was borderline miserable And I think LeBron was borderline miserable that first year And he had to make some changes and he got more comfortable with it. So But yeah, so it was a It was a decision I had to make, but it, you know, the idea that I was you know, riding high into Miami thinking I had it made in the shade. that was not that was not the case You are miserable because you're far away from home There was a lot of different reasons, you know, like, U I had never in I had never dealt with hate before Um, you know, you know, I covered the calves and the calves had a pretty magical that was, you know, bad or you know, disappointing ends to seasons, but generally it was I was writing about positive stories. You know, LeBron was criticized for things, you know, like you know, did he shrink in the moment or whatever You know, it was it was genuinely a genuine I was genuinely covering a positive story and I started covering a story that a lot of people felt was negative And a lot of people you know, really didn't like ESPN In Miami, you know we hired four people and created this thing called the heat index. and We did cover them sort of laughably intently, intensely. I mean, you know, I'll never forget u One of my big memories of it was During the second year of the playoffs when they were playing against the pacers. they were heavily favored And they fell down the series two one And there were two days in between games three and four. So they had to sit with a two one deficit for three days in Indianapolis And he canceled practice on the first day the first off day, which is routine. That would that is, you know that that they would even schedule a practice is kind of a surprise. But, you know, you put it on the schedule, whatever. And like I was on ESPN television every half hour. u analyzing You know, having to analyze the idea that they cancel practice being down to one. You know, we used to every everything that they did every single day, we used to joke, what could we get away with? N get away with, but what was the you know the practice would end and we would go do interviews and we would come back and we would ask the news desesk at Spn. com didid they want a story? And we would wonder How in name they of an update could we could they could they, you know, and like we were like Do you think if we pitched that they changed the post game meal, they would take the news story on that Be, you know, idea ESP and you have you have a game, Hey, you want you interested in this story You don't do every game. sometometimes news desk is like, now we're not I was like, you know what? Ill if Ill bet if we did write a story about them changing the post game that it would have been. been a story. So the negative people didn't like that. the heat didn't like that. And the irony about this is He totally did not like us there. LeBron was in a bad mood about ESPN. He thoughtelt ESPN had turned his back on him and taking advantage of him U in the wake of the decision He was he was annoyed by the coverage. and looking back on it, it was annoying. We were all learning. LebBron was learning about what it took to be to be with the heat. We at ESPN we're learning about how to cover this type of unfolding story. And the funny thing about it is is that There was just this great buildup of ness. I mean, the heat were total pros about it, but there was this big buildup of of, you know, um Not animosity, that's too strong, but this buildup of like this ice built up between, you know, the heat and ESPN I admire the Heat Organization so much. And I value the relationships that I created in those years. And I look back and I learned so much covering that team and I learned so much listening to Pat Rileilly when he would talk to us, you know, three or four times a year, five times a year. I learned so much what it meant to cover a team like that. I learned so much about the heat mentality, which I still have so much admiration for. I he so much about how they conduct themselves with professionalism in class I've got nothing but wonderful positive things to say. about what I experienced in Miami, which by the way, I think LeBron might feel somewhat the same because he's still you know, mimic some of the stuff that Pat Reiley and Eric Spolster would say Yet during while I was doing it, I wanted it out of there in the worst way So, you know But I look back on it now fondness, both looking at it and saying, boy, I was really in the deep end of the pool thrashing around not having any idea what I was doing and at the same time U saying, boy, what a great experience for my career to have gone through that We live and work in a world where NBA journalism is built around transaction scoops. what we used to call wge bombs How much do you think LeBron's move to Miami created that world? It was the the frothing cocktail of social media combined with with that because it's the ultimate transaction and it played out on social media. There was, you know, you know how I hate to compare this, but you know how the Gulf War for people of a certain age, The Gulf War was the first war that was on television The decision was the first major transaction that played out on social media. and it changed everything going forward Um, and, uh you know, people loved, you know, there's, you know, there's these there's these seminal moments that happen on social media where people, you know, followed it in real time And u H you know It was just a special time Brian like I don't remember exactly now because I haven't probably done it in five or six years, but B LeBron was taking his meetings. Okaykay nowadays Free agency happens like in the dark And it happens like in mid January or in mid June, like right now this time of year when like it's not even supposed to happen, but like half the fre agency is already done Back then, people actually waited until july first And then like the meetings weren't like always super secret So like, Brian, I I went to the building where LeBron was having his meetings And I sat in the lobby and I just tweeted in real time what I was watching No, I wasn't in the room. I have no idea what they were saying, but like we knew when everybody was coming And there was this little every time I drive by the office building, it's downtown Cleveland, I think about it U and it was just this little lobby and there was this little cafe that was you know, for people in the building was basically like a coffee shop And there's only like four little tables. and the The proprietor woman there. You know, she was like, yeah, as long as you have something from the from the store, you can, um You can sit here So like I would perpetually buy you know, things from you know that she would have on sale and sit there and it was right next to the elevators and I would watch the elevators and I would just tweet. JayZ just arrived with Mckill Prokerov Jim Dolan just arrived with Mike Dantntoni and Donni Walsh and U Prokroff and Avery Johnson just left. Jay Z is still up there with LeBron. I guess maybe U having one last meeting that pitch the nets, you know, I was doing this blow by blow for three days and I went back and read it, like you know, probably five years ago and I'm like, This is incredible copy even now. like you would never get that nowadays. Everybody's would have that locked down. But like if you were following that in real time, you were getting like blow but and sometimes I had like little reporting insights. I kind of knew what was being gone on in the in the transcripts and like there would be like I remember when the heat went up, The LA Clippers Um, there and the heat meeting was running long. We should have known And there was no place to wait. So the clippers' executivive just stood in the in the lobby and waited and you know, looked at their watches. And then, you know, down comes Pat Riley and Eric Bolstra and Mickey Erison. and they had some sort of back and forth sort of joking between them. I don't remember what it was, but I was I was live tweeting what they were saying to each other, Brian. I mean, like that's incredible. L it's all there. Like if you go back on the way backack machine, like on the whatever the website is it's all there the first week of July and my old's my old handle, which is I think maybe even defuned now. But anyway, the point is I looked up five years ago and And, um You know If you had never experienced, that was a whole different way to consume this thing. And I think people loved it and people loveved transactions And it's like you put it all together and you had sparks It's like you were re covering a labor stoppage in nineteen eighty five, staking out the hotel lobby and just, you know, except back then they wentt had Twitter, of course, but I love that twenty fourteen LeBron announces he's going from Miami back to Cleveland For people who weren't around or don't remember, LeBron wanted to return to Cleveland why Hate We'll have to wait for for his book or his documentary to complete explain why. I think There was a number of reasons wasn't just one reason. I do think his family, his wife wanted to go back home. I think she had interest in having her kids be back in Akron Um I think u, um I u You know, I never forget so LeBron played his first year in um in in Miami, and then they had the lockout if you remember And so LeBron went back up and lived back in Akron again So did I Brian I went back home. I hadn't sold my condo and I went back home and I spent the whole summer and fall back in Ohio And you know, I would, you know, we had nothing to do in September, October, November the Bockout went on to December. And u I remember I was going to my old high school football games on Friday nights and LeBron was there Bon and I were both, you know, both back in Hackron and, you know, he chose to live in Akron. You know, during that time, he didn't choose Miami He lived in Aron And I remember thinking that he's going to go back That was when I first believed he would go back because U he realized how much he missed it Um, and but I want to be clear I don't want to spin it like he was miserable I hated Miami or whatever. I just think he His tone changed after the lockout It was it was it was very nuanced But I can remember the day when I can remember the day when I said he's going back I just remember very clearly coming to the conclusion he's going back. And it wasn't like a eureka moment. I was just like, yeah, he's going to come back. I want to come back to. You know, and again, it's not a commentary on Miami. it's just a commentary on the situation And so The heat had sort of like here's what you have to understand if you remember about the end of that twenty fourteen season I want to say, you know, of the I don't remember the exact number, but I think Plers played in the last game of the fininals, game five of the finals I think three of them ended up retiring the game And several more were like on their last legs And so like to say that the heat wheezed across the finish line after that fourth year of going to the finals, wasas an understatement that team was exhausted. It's kind of comparable, I think, to the bucks Now at the end of Yonest, they just exhausted themselves. They exhausted their resources you know, you know, it's just I later deemed it organizational fatigue. The entire organization was exhausted. And in a Duanne Wade, his knee was really giving him problems. They basically had to wrap them and bubble wrap the whole year to try to get into the postseason. Dwne ended up coming back and having good seasons But at that point, it looked like maybe that that was Dwuannee's time as a super Lague player might be drawing to an end. I think that played something on the pie chart And the calves had this opportunity to know, they Kyrie Irving and the ability to get Kevin love and they were refreshed and ready. and And you all of those things played into it. And And I don't think it was a simple decision. I think he stewed on it for a while And you know, the decision had been such a colossal rejection, even though again, I think the I think the idea was is a historically great idea like If an idea if if there could be a sports Business idea Hall of Fame, the decision would be in there. I really believe that Um, And so, you know, he obviously you know, went with the what you went with Lee Jenkins, which was, you know, executed perfectly and u He just he he just, you know, had he had great strategic advice. He had hired this, um a strategist named Adam Mendelson, who still works with him today and Adam was We had come from the political world He'd actually worked for Alet Schwarzeneg. you think of how of how much of a of a, you know, a Democrat Lebron is, well he hired a Republican strategist. I mean, I don't know if Adam's a Repuban but he was working for a Republican governor at one point. And um, you know, Adams Adam's deft handling and LeBron's execution of that was just just just everything was smoother with it And u And, you know, it broke the heats heart to this day. They They're just like, what did we do? Like, you know, didn't you trust us? And I was like, you know, he might have, you know, he won one more title over the next four years. He might have won more with Miami But the returning to Cleveland was you know, so cyclical. it just the whole thing about it just it felt it felt right to him and and the way him I mean everything first off The story of him going to Miami in in in just human in humanity story is a less It's a villain story. going to join you know, to to create a super team, you know, with an enemy rival. That's a storyline in a movie or you know, they back then they called the, you know, the, you know, u, What was the wrestling thing with Hul Cogan where he went to No the NWO. NWO. They compared it to that. you know, And that was a contrived storyline to make someone a villain Whereas the story of LeBron coming back to Cleveland is onn a human level, a very much more attractive storyline. It is a Biblical. Historic story, Proigal son, like, you know, is one of the great storylines arcs that, you know, how many movies are written like that So the so the neutral fan who didn't have skin in the game was programmed as a human to dislike going to Miami and to like going back to Cleveland. It is The two different stories are are just You know, the arc is set up that way So that he would go back and then win made it a very pleasing story to a neutral. Obviously if you were a warrior stand or you were a heat fan, You hated it, even if maybe you were a Jordan fan that didn't want to you know, see. LeBron, you know, gain, you know, there's a number of different biases it might exist and may you not like it, but to a casual And that was one of the things that stunned LeBron so much. I can still remember like the second or third week of his first year in Miami, the team went to Memphis and they got booed mercilessly in Memphis. and LeBron was like after the game, he was like Why am I getting booed in Memphis You know, it's ironic because obviously the Memphis comments, you know, decades later, but he was like, why am I getting booed in Memphis? What did I ever say and do to Memphis And he was coming to the realization that the casuals and the neutrals were against him You know, And then he came back to Cleveland and the casualies with neutrals at least to a large degree came back on his side So that just that was that was a different time and place. I did that whole free agency in Bristol, Connecticut. I had moved to New York City and was going to Bristol. Brian at the time, I only had three suits I had three suits and I just rotated them. I was there for ten, fifteen days. I still can remember my room number at the residence in Southerthington in Connecticut because I stayed there for like fifteen straight days, I just rotated in the three suits every three days. That's all I had because I wasn't used to being on TV. Five, six days a week. That's what I had. I had three suits And I actually ran out of ties and there's a target off exit thirty one in in off interstate eighty four or the exit free SPN. And I went to the target because I didn't have time to go anywhere else. and I think they had four different ties available at Target. and I bought all four Because I because I didn't I was trying to like not repeat my tie every ten days, you know? sureure And um So I was wearing a target tie that I had bought that morning when LeBron when when LeBron released the the letter He wins the NBA title in twenty sixteen in Cleveland That is big for quote unquote, LeBron's legacy. And LeBron's legacy, you know, has been a gigantic subject for sports talkers. for a decade plus now. How much Does he engage with that subject? His legacy, how interested in it is he more that I think he's willing to admit U If I were him, I would say, don't ever talk about it again becausecause, isn't it like, PR strategy like one hundred one Um They can't hit they can't hit pitches you don't thow Um I it I have made the argument now for probably five or six years that his His, um claim to greatest ever is his longevity Um, you know, the way I describe it is which is more impressive to you, the highest peak Uh, you know Mount Everest, Pkes Peak Dali, whatever or the breadth of the mountain range. which which is which do you prefer U and I'm not looking for an actual answer. Simes people sometometimes people want to answer. What I'm saying is they're both Beautiful, incredible, incredible vistas. That's that's what I'm the point I'm trying to get. But when I say when I say that to people and they start arguing that, you know, Jordan being Everest is much better. I don't engage He everyvery like and he just did it again. he just did I think it was it' an interview a Time magazine where he's he he did it again H, h,t h. got back into it and, you know, you know, re engaged it Um, I would say, you know, not always looking for my advice. I would say Stop talking about legacy. Your body of work is your body of work. It's a gigantic mountain range that's lasted decades and it is Majestic You don't need to you know, get into a measuring contest about who has the highest mount. I think we can all agree that Jordan no one has played the game at a higher level than Jordan sixix out of eight years was there We are in an era where for eight years, Brian We have had a different champion eight years LeBron went to eight straight finyals Do you know how hard it was to go to A straight finals L Like the and he switched teams in the middle of it. He switched team twice, really Um That accomplish. And you know, it's difficult because you'll say and because you know you'll say, you know, you know you went to A stade finals and people like, well, you lost five of them Three and five, Jordan would never lose one files, much less five And it's just, um You're right You're right. Have a nice day Um it's, um it's an impossible c you know There's never been a conversation about it where somebody enters a conversation and says Jordner LeBron And then a conversation happens and and one person goes, you know what You are right I was going with Lebron and now I'm going with Jordan. I was going with Jordan and I now I' going LeBron. No, this is how it goes The person waits to hear the other person and they're not actually listening they're just waiting to talk and then they'll give their case and they like doing it. You know, this is what sports are about. So like when I engage people all over the world and they'll meet me or whatever and they'll go, Jordan or LeBron, and they don't really care what I say They're just waiting to give me their opinion. I've already figured out that all that matters is they get their opinion out. It doesn't matter what I say And so I listen to their opinion and say, hey, really appreciate it. Thanks so for reading, watching, listening what happ And so It's a Sports in general is a thing that people get passionate about. You let him get passionate about it. But nothing LeBron is going to say. is going to talk anybody out of what they've already what they've already decided So I would say Stop throwing pitches you how just just move on from the discussion and find something else to talk about. But he Because of course he cares and is proud and he has a case, he can't seem like he can't help himself, you know, once or twice a year You mentioned Lee Jenkins Sps Illustrator a second ago When you were covering LeBron day to day interestnterested was he in what You were writing about it. It changed, it changed early on a lot and later on less and less. Um early on a lot, you know, the media got more fractured. He became a media You know, he joined the media in certain ways Um And u I mean, once once he once he decided to be I'm a creator It changed the way he totally dealt with the media So after that happened, I mean, he's always, you know, one of the things about LeBron is he's incredibly aware One of the most aware people I've ever seen. and I've described this One of the forwards to one of my books I wrote about this like His awareness is one of the highest I've ever seen, whether it's on the court. knowning The third layer defender is going to make based on how he might lean his shoulder and taking advantage of it to being in the locker room and conducting his own interview while keeping an eye on who's maybe talking about him across the room to He's icing his knees and feet and he's looking at his phone and he looks up and he sees that a team is running a sideline out of bounds play with less than twenty four seconds on the shot clock. I've seen him do this a number of times. Predict the play. that's going to be on like he has been mid interview Um, And he will see that, you know the bob the bobcats are gone, but you know, back maybe back then the bobcats were running a sideline out of bounds play against the the Mavericks, you know, in the ten seconds left and he go, they better watch Gerald Wallace on the on the back cut And Gerald Wallace run a back cut. Like he wasn't his performatively. I saw this a number of times There was one time during a playoff series. I don't remember which series it was. where you got to ask sort of a benign question about a play in the game. And he raffled off a minute and a half of events that happen. I know the game had just happened before But his level of detail as he described what happened was almost as if he had studied the film and he knew everybody was and he got to the end of the explanation of what he saw And there was applause in the room It was almost like O was Parlman that sort of that sort of level of things. So H awareness of What a media member may be wanting to get what that media member has said or written used to be Razor sharp. Well now there's Five X number of media outlets And you know, it's presented all in all different multim media and he's doing his own. And so it's not the same But for a while there, there was only a few people Despite how big he was, who was you know, opining reporting on, you know, something every single day. There was a handful. and he was aware at that time Nowadays, I think he's moved past it and with probably with good reason And he ever get mad at the way you portrayed him. When horse you wrote this No, I'm not like Well, that's bullshit. Well he would make sometimes he would make remarks about it, But was those were rare. I would again, just say he was aware Like He would be aware that there was a reporter there who had an agenda or was working on something or whatever. and when they when he would get asked a question would be aware or he would know Boy, the last time I was in Salt Lake This guy asked me this because he was trying to and by the way, I'm not C coming up I don't think this necessily happens Salt Lake. so don' take that, but you know, city X. he would remember, you know, well last year, this guy asked me this and he did that with it. So I'm going to be on guard because he's working this s I can tell he's working the sger. Yes. I mean, he LeBron, you know, and by the way, I haven't covered LeBron on a day to day basis in over a decade So Some of what is is you're asking me now. I don't even know how he does it now. I'm more speaking about how it how it was that Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zetbound terzepatide may be able to help Zetbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity, or some adults with overweight who also have weight related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off Zepbound is approved as a two point five, five, seven point five, ten, twelve point five, or fifteen milligram injection Zepbound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide containing products or any GLP one receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if zZound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medulary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type two Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop zip bound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills Taking Zepbound with a sulfonal uurrea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems to your doctor all one eight hundred five four five five nine seven nine or visit zeepbounds. liily. com Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Z bounds terzepotide may be able to help. Bbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity, or some adults with overweight who also have weight related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off Zepbound is approved as a two point five, five, seven point five, ten, twelve point five, or fifteen milligram injection. Zbound contains terzepotide and should not be used with other Terzepotide containing products or any GLP one receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles Don't take up allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medulary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type two. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck Zbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if your're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar sideide effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems to your doctor Call one eight hundred five four five five nine seven nine or visit zeppbounds. liily. com This episode is brought to by Viori comomes to clothes that score high in both comfort and style. Viori is my MVP. Sunday performance joggers. Oh yeah. they have the perfect. I could watch a game and then go out to dinner vibe and the meta pant, That's my number one. I need to look like I tried option. Get twenty percent off your first purchase at Viori. com slash Simmons and discovever the versatility of Vori clothing, exclusions apply, visit the website for full terms and conditions. twenty eighteen He goes from Cleveland to the Lakers. Yeah. How much of his decision to go to LA was because he thought he could win titles there and how much was producing being a media guy, creating, as you say I think it wasn't just to be for media. I think media was a part of the decision pie But I think in Akron decided they wanted to be in Los Angeles. And I think that his sons who were headed to be high level basketball players, he believed, he believed that they could get better basketball you know, in in LA It was was sort of a better environment to raise a basketball player, which is, you know being from Akron Sad And you know we're recording this the day before the draft. I don't know when you're going to release it, but there could be a second Number one overall pick from Akron U you know Darren Peterson is from the Akron area. could have a second no one overall pick who was born in two thousand seven H So certainly, you know, He played all over the country, but he was raised, you know, But anyway, it's a humor there. Um, Uh, you know, I think It couldn't have been to win titles because the Lakers were trash. They had made the playoffs in years. there was nothing there. Now he It was reasonable for him to say, I'm going to partner with the Lakers because I believe the Lakers can attract and build a championship team, which in fact, they did. U But there was no team to go to. was there was nothing to speak of that teh So you know, maybe the idea of a title, like if he had I remember at the time thinking If you really wanted to win, you should go to Philadelphia notot that he ever considered going to Philadelphia, but no winning Winning was not number one. But it wasn't like it was insignificant. I do believe he felt like he could win an It wasn't with when he came back to Cleveland, he came back to a team that was ready to go They hadn't made the playoffs yet, but if you looked and took a look at the landscape, they were ready to go and add LeBron and they were going to be great. and they were instantaneously and That wasn't the case in L.A. but But yeah, I also think that once he won the twenty sixteen title In my view, in my view doesn't count. He had a blank check for the rest of his career which is why he's been cheered you know R relentlessly every time he's come back to Cleveland since he left this time because That championship meant so much because of the time place situation and everything like that And the way it went down that Honestly, if he had wanted to go play in Antarctica. you know, start a team down there he would have had a blank check to do that. And so I think, you know, I don't think he thought he'd be playing ten years later you know, who knows what he what he foresaw, But I think it's worked out generally great for him Last March, LeBron had an airing of grievances on Pat McAveee' show And your name came up S I seen Brian Wyinhorst on one of these shows not too long ago, the guy who says he's like my fucking best friend. What did you make of that He was just angry at Stehven A and he was he had seen me say something on first take, I think I've never once said I was his best friend ever. you know, I've never ever claimed to be a LeBron expert. Many, many people have attached that to me I have never said those words. I don't think. And if I did, it was not a sincere way to say it I've never seen myself as anything but a journalist covering, a great athlete Uh you know, I think part of what happened there was sort of Pat showed him a a doctored photo that they made on the McAfee show Because whenever I would go on the McAfee show, they would have a running joke that I was LeBron's teammate And they had this team photo that they plastered my Stayon from LeBrone High S schoolool because I went to LeBrone H School, but I was seven years ahead of him. I wasn't his classmate And He saw that and I'm not sure he understood that that was the McAfee show So did that I think I don't know if he thought that that was something that I did or whatever But he was upset about something I said about him signing a Nike, the Nike kind. I think if I remember correctly. You know, he was pretty much at full out war with Stehven A at the time And I had been on Stehven As show and I disagree I can't even remember the nature of it, but I disagree with something that he about when he signed his Nike contract in two thousand three and he just felt like My What I said was just not true I don't remember what I said, but I remember thinking, No, I stand by it. whatever it was, I stood by it. I can't remember the details of it, but I think the time and place of it M was a factor. and I you know, I do I do wonder about what, you know he saw that picture as if he thought I put that picture out or something. I don't I doubt he I doubt he had watched the McAfee show and seen my appearances and seen how Pat and the guys, you know, they they have conceits that they joke around with I doubt that they I doubt that he was aware of that. I'm not sure he knew the origin of it, but I don't know. I will say that you know, the vast overwhelming not even comparable majority of times that I've dealt with LeBron, he has been value add and very respectful and helpful So Whatever that was, whether he felt he was justified or whether it was a bad moment, it's fine with me Yeah, it came off as harsh. They didn't reach out to you afterwards him or his people and say, Hey didn didn't mean that or They did reach out, they did reach out to me. But they didn't say they didn't mean it Fair enough U twoo quick ones. We'll let you get back to the draft and the free agency It's become a thing that whenever anything happens in the world, especially the sports world LeBron is on Twitter talking about it, whether Rory McArooy is winning the Masters or Bill Belchic's getting snubbed for the Hall of Fame. Is that LeBron being like the rest of us where? We see something happen and we just want to get on the board and get our opinion out there Or is there some other explanation? I think LeBron is a media junkie He's a media junky. I mean, like I don't know I don't know the current set upp in his house. I've kind of lost touch with all of that. but I know that his house in Akron, he would he had like eight or nine televisions and he would watch it once But, you know, I can't do that. I can't take in multiple streams of media at one time. You know, that's part of his awareness ability. Like he is a media junkie. And not not necessarily basketball media. you know, I'm not I'm just talking about taking in media, you know,, he, you know, he dabbled in music and things in his career and And you know, the idea that he can watch You know, he gets made fun of for the idea that like, you know, people joke about it. Well, he identified some fifteen year old, you know, eight years before he was, you know number one on the PGA Tour or whatever. But he did do that with a bunch of kids. L like he did see and identify people early on because he was so aware of so many different things. Now obbviously He has been guilty of of, you know mayaybe exaggerating a little bit, but you know, He's a media junkie. He loves that. He's constantly taking in stuff. I don't think I don't think he's he's not wired to sit there in the corner with a book which is what he sometimes, you know, presents himself to do. Like I think he's wired to nonstop take in information and relate to the information. and You know Again, he's a product in a child of the social media age. He a to adulthood within the social media age, he You know, he he is of that world U So I just think it's just him reacting to the personality that he developed And, you know, he He has a podcast now that he talks about more than just his life. Pase You know, he's he is a media member. you know, he is he takes in and creates content. He's actually one of the all time He's one of the leading content creators in American history, wouldould you agree Um, you know, u so he he exists in that world And so he exists in a world where also Think of the power u that You could pick up your phone And not only Get out to your tens, hundreds of millions of followers with a single tweet. But that that tweet would then be amplified by the biggest networks and not even on Oviously if on basketball if he's got a if he's got a comment on the finals, but An I mean, there was a period of time where anything Lebron tweeted had a fifty fifty shot of being on S sports Center within the hour Think of that power. and that out and that influence and stuff like that, it's crazy. calling Donald Trump a bumb in twenty seventeen on. Well, that was a different in place but that did happen. Thatue It really was. and people forget this, but he wore a betteror hat in twenty eighteen too, speaking of a different place American. rem. but I believe it When you talk about content creators It's so fascinating to me when I think of subjects in American culture that have been continuous. And you just think of LeBron as a continuous subject now for twenty three years just dating from the start of his NBA career and he was a thing before, as you know, because you covered him in high school, he was a thing before that too twenty three plus years many how many other people can we say that about in American life? Bbe Donald Trump maybe a few others But I mean I'm very very There's a chance that he is given more canan you think of a public figure who has given more interviews on LeBron James? Mbe Donald Trp Donald Trump didn't sit his locker every night. You say that, Brian. I'm not sure about that Certainly in the last three years or ten years, but what about the twenty before that? If we just think of him talking to the Akron Beacon journal and ESPN and the LA Times and everybody else night after night after night Pus all the outside. There was a time where he was giving three interviews a day on game days. and for fifteen for many, many, many years he would speak twice a day on game days. So and he was playing seventy well, including the playoffs, he was playing eighty or ninety to one hundred games a year. So But's say he averaged One point five interviews per game day is playing one hundred games. Okay That's plus all of the off days. He was giving probably between two and three hundred interviews. And then You know, there would be the days where he would give three or four interviews like when it was a media day I'll bet he averaged three hundred interviews. for fififteen years. And then In the last ten, he's cut it way down. But it's still in the triple digits per year The man is given thousands and thousands of interviews. Then you add in the social media aspect of it. And then like you talk about like the television shows he's done, like the shop and stuff like this the amount of His words in the public domain is absolutely staggering Okay And if I said to you like you know, maybe There's been a half a dozen times where he has said something. like you're talking about some tweets from twenty seventeen or eighteen or some comments he had about China. you know, twenty nineteen How many have there that there have been have there been that are truly controversial? Not like sports world C conf confrontation or whatever It's truly an incredible body of work as a media comommentator Right? Forget about the fact of what he does in the basketball court he's probably got about as many sound bites because how many sound bites come from an average interview? Three, seven, twelve. I don't know Um What does he have more of points or sound bites? Definitely points. Okay, but it' They're both in the five digits. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So we're saying memorable sound bittess not memorable you know, he says You know, he says twelve paragraphs and three of them go viral. How manyes that happen Tens of thousands of times So the body of work is incredible. and he's obviously going to be reduced when he retires, but he will not be done. It's so so we're talking about one of the From a media standpoint, one of the Biggest act media people in the history of The language. Do you think I'm being ridiculous I say that I mean, in modern times, sure, right? I mean, I don't know,re counting everybody aboutic? The internet age? How about American history Uh Do you think there's more stuff in the public domain from George Washington or LeBron J Wh you're blowing my mind on a media podcast here, Brian. I'm trying to thank George Washington or LeBron J. How are we grating Well, I'm just I mean, obviously. George Washington's been a lot of elementary school. Okay. Let's put thisry chopping down the cherry tree lectures. Informationge in the information Age abbs. He's one of the highest I have no doubt about Media created creation whatever you want to say, creators in the information age He is a volume shooter and he has allowed us to be volume shooters about him. I saw you say at the beginning of last season. you watched him play And he was struggling and he said, ESPN, we need to start our LeBron retirement plans right now. We need to get that in order. And then of course, he bounces back and has a great spring and a great post season When he makes this final decision or maybe final decision this year, what are the terms you think he'll be thinking What what what is what will it take to get him to play another year another two years in the NBA? I think he's I think' I think he's grappling with that right now. Um, because I think I think he loves being an NBA basketball player. and I think, you know, maybe not every day, but I think he loves playing basketball in Los Angeles. I think he loves being a laker. The irony is Much of the Lakers fans appreciate what he's done for them Um you know, they He unfget he had Awkward timing with what happened with Kobe. He followed Kobe and then the tragedy happened and Kobe became I mean, he was already an icon, you know. Kobe became immortal. And Cobe became immortal at the same time LeBron know, came in terms of his own mortality in terms of as a basketball player. He was no longer able to make the finals every single year, no matter who was on his team And he was chas, you know, he already was chasing a , you know, a figurative ghost with Jordan because he can't play against Jordan He is playing against a guy whose record is deemed untouchable And now he has to play against, you know, a literal ghost. you know, he has to play against the spirit of Kobe Bryan. He'll never sur he was never going to surpass it even if Kobe was alive and well and winning Oscars every third year. He would never have equaled Kobe in the Lakers fans' minds. But now Kobe is, you know is I mean, I Our offices in LA are directly next to the Kobe Brian statue. and I work at all hours of the day in those offices, Brian. like I am in there routinely before four AM Okay to be on East Coast television People are at that statue twenty four seven . That statue outside the arena is a pilgrimage Okay, to Kobe. It is a shrine to Kobe LeBron can and it's so appropriate that statue, you know, there's all these statues outside crypto. com and some of them are awesome and all of them have meaning. They just put up a Riley statue for example, and like There's a Kareim statue that's like sort of passing to or there's a magic statue that kind of likeked the way they laid it out passes to a Karee statue,' doing a skky hook And they the Riley statue sort of in between them like the coach who did it. It's really all super well done The Kobe statue is higher than all of them because Kobe rains above all lakres Okay. And he's had to follow that Um And so the become complicated. However I think he likes being a laker, not every day, but I think he likes being a laker. He's building a hundred million dollars compound in Beverly Hills Like what he is building in Beverly Hills is like The Hearst Msion Like I believe one hundred years from now, people will tour it. It will become a museum That's what he's building in Los Angeles. That's where his life and future is. He wants to play basketball there But the Lakers are in this point where They kind of, you know, need to move on But they kind of If they move on from him won't be as good. Like they don't have a replacement. So there's this awkward thing where you know, they want to pivot to Luca, but They're not quite one hundred percent ready So it's just not clean It's not clean U and so You know, and like He's probably still worth fifty million dollars. Like in fact, he's probably worth one hundred million dollars Like the Lakers H paying a hundred million dollars would still be good business investment. in the NBA paying him fifty million dollars is bad business. E though he's earned it, even though he should get You know,'s that's the other thing. like it's so it's so buried in nuance. It's so very difficult When Kobe was coming back from the Achilles, the Lakers gave him this two year contract that was a wild overpay But they did it because it was the right thing to do becausecause you honor Kobe and that money in that last contract was part of Kobe. It kncapp the franchise for a couple of years, but the franchise wasn't going anywhere anyway. So it was the only right thing to do. Now here's LeBron at the same moment where Rightfully, the Glakers should just give a two year deal for a hundred million. That's what they should do Because of these eleven rules and these fifteen reasons or whatever, they can't really, because Every dollar they give to him is a dollar that they can't spend on a center, which is what they really need to win tonight And so The Laker tenure is just You know, the cavv's tenure had defined lines You know, you know, we could see him, you know, you know it was a hero arc. It was very simple to follow The Lakers tenure