Finalizing the Unknockables List

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Restrictions apply services not available in all areas . Hello, media consumers. Welcome to the May issue of the press box. Brian Curtis here along with producers Isaiah Blakely, John Romer, David Shoemaker will be by in just one second. But first, let me tell you what we're up to this mont h. Exactly 60 years ago, Esquire had a very fun cover story. The magazine picked a group of people it called the Unknockables. Now what's an unknockable? Well, 1966, just like 2026, was a crazy time in American history. Everybody seemed like a divisive figure. But as Esquire's editors wrote, the survival of mankind depends on at least some people being okay, or what would be the point of going on. In other words, not everybody can be hated by 50% of the population. As a society, we must agree on the greatness of some people. Now, sixty years ago, the people on Esquire's list of unknockables included John F. Kennedy Jr. and the Sound of Music's Julie Andrews and the actor Eddie Bracken, whom you might know as the kindly toy store owner in Home Alone 2. David and I wondered: could we pick a new group of unknockables? People from all parts of society that emerged relatively unscathed from the cauldrons of social media and politics. Now here are the rules that we followed when putting together our list. Rule number one: our unknockables must be alive. Death makes just about everybody unknockable. Number two, the person must have some notable following. No obscurity is allowed. And number three, remember, nobody is universally l oved. Every mother Teresa has a Christopher Hitchens. But we wanted to find those people that just about everybody agrees are OK . Welcome to the May issue The Unknockables 202 6 . Alright, David, the best way to pick our group of unknockables is this . We've come up with categories. And every category has a group of nominees. Yeah. You and I came up with these nominees by doing some brainstorming, by hitting up friends. I even went to the bookstore of Romans in Pasadena over the weekend. Mm-hmm. And I brought a pen and a note card. And I went around just looking at the spines of the books in the biography section.. Mm-hmm Apologies to any person who works at Vromans who thought the book inspector had showed up at their store . We'll discuss the nomination. They just thought you were marking down what books to buy off of Amazon, dude. You just like walked in there and made yourself the biggest villain in the store. We'll discuss the dominees and then we'll put our favorites on a master list of unknockables. Are you ready, my friend? I am. And it should be said, like, first of all, it should be said that we did a similar exercise at the beginning of The Ringer . And called the uh what was it called? The Undeniables. The Undeniables . And it was interesting to see how much how many of those people were no longer on the list, which is to say almost all of them. Right? So there's a little bit of temporality to this. There's a little bit of uh, you know, you you acknowledge that it's a thing of the moment, but it aspires to be something much bigger than the moment. Yes. It's a snapshot of a moment in time that should in some ways explain the moment in time. Yeah. Yeah. And there's definitely some people that have universal approval at this moment in time that are just we'll talk about some of them. But just it feels almost too transitory. It's like we know it it's it might it whether or not it explains a moment in time. We know if we got bad here in six months, the odds are that person would be at the bottom of the list. So why waste our time? You know? We want people to pull out this issue, like they pull out that old Esquire and be like, yes, these are unknockables. Absolutely. Uh category number one. Okay. Call this Grand Old Men of Basketball. Yes. And our first nominee is 92-year-old Hubie Brown. Yes. Is Hubie an unknockable It's interesting because uh I mean I think we get we're gonna go around in the same sort of square dance circles that we do uh with every sports commentator because I mean hell just listen to the way that we've talked about sports commentators on this show. It's like they the the it goes up and it goes down and it's you know it's it's kind of hard to well it's not hard to predict. It's all a pretty familiar trajectory. Very few of them last as long as the people on this as a lot of the people on this list. And I think that that makes a huge difference. Hubie, can you make the argument that Hubie Brown, who gets more I won't say flack, but has more people kind of doing Hubie Brown gimmicks over the span of his career online than just about anybody else, talking in the third person or the second person, you know, all that stuff. Um by the way, my dad used to my parents used to babysit for Hubie Brown. Did I ever tell you the story? What? Yeah. No. He was coaching the Kentucky Colonels or something and my dad is a good upstanding, you know, like young pastor and his wife in their early twenties used to like babysit for him. Did he go to your dad's church? No, there was no connection. Like as far as I know. I think they had a friend in common. You know, they knew somebody else. But you just dropped the kids off with your dad. They went to Hubie's house. To Shea Hubie. I can't believe you never told me that before. Um, and so it was a weird thing to realize. It's one of those dad stories that's been around for so long that you're just like you're just kind of you know numb to it. But yeah. Anyway, Hubie Brown certainly feels like he's gotten there. I think so. It feels like he's gotten there almost at the last minute, too. Not that there's been a lot of drop-off in his , you know, in his in his commentary ability, but he's not gonna be around for that much longer. David, how dare you, sir? Doing it at this level. Well, he's retired from broadcasting. No, no. Like giving a radio interview or something like that. Yeah, yeah. No, but I mean just like he's not gonna be he's not gonna be around for us to comment on, like to have an opinion on whether or not he is with us anymore. I feel like his last decade on the air you started to hear a lot of you know who's great? Yes, I agree. Who sounds just like he has for the last thirty years, Hubie Brown. Yeah. He'd be in and out of the NBA, but there was a lot of late career respect put on Hubie's name. I think it's important too because we got a lot of retreads, not retreads, people been doing it pretty continuously, but a lot of but there's a number of people from our childhood that were still calling games, you know, much for years and years beyond that. And there's always a drop-off. There's always a oh, that was just I liked him because I was a kid. I was liked him because I was familiar with him. I liked him because, you know, whatever. He was my childhood guy. Yeah. I don't feel like QB was anybody's childhood guy. But maybe that's why he was childhood guy. Alright, Hubie, I'm advancing to the final list. How about CBS's Bill Raftery ? Another guy who's gotten a lot of shine. A lot of shine over the in the past. I would say last two years. Yeah. I was gonna say as well Um Yeah. I mean I think if you have to pick one of the two you go Hubie Brown. But I don't have any problem at all with Bill being on the list. And being on the being on the next round if that's where we're going. I also had Dickie V as a grand old man of battle. Still doing commercials. Still doing commercials, battling cancer. He died, he called a game last year, right? Or this year. He did. I believe he did. He's a guy who was wildly divisive during his career . Very popular. There you go. But there was a lot of anti-Dicky V sentiment in the world. Yeah, I mean I think if you were uh if you're a diehard college ball fan, you're used to watching local broadcasts of your team or whatever, and then like at the moment where your team gets big enough to have a national game, you just have Dickie V just l yelling the entire game, just like, whoa, we know you're just like, come. Yeah. Oh, Michigan. Amazing. Yeah. I can, I can like I get that . Um You also don't want to put them in if like if you eliminate the cancer, I know we're getting into treacherous territory here . Eliminate the potentially uh fatal diseases from a lot of the from any of these names would they come up would they still be on the list? Not that that should matter, but it's an interesting question. I think in his case it's a yes. I think he's a I think he 's of a mascot than a you know, color commentator . But I don't know. Who w when you talk to people, do you feel like there's some people still people out there that had divided divided feelings or negative feelings about him? Nah, I think he had become a grand old man of basketball. Yeah. Over the last five to ten years. Plus, just like um he's a he's a survivor of old ESPN. Mm-hmm. He started working from them at the beginning. Yeah. There's just aren't many people, in fact, just nobody besides basically Chris Berman around that can say that anymore. Uh here's another name I had in this category that's kinda interesting. What do we think about Pat Riley ? My son is a is a is a Miami Heat fan and said to me directly this week, I think it's time for Riley to retire . Uh so so that rules it out. I think that might be all that needs to be said. I mean it's certain listen, a lot of this The naysayers of a bygone age are still naysayers, right? Have they been won over? And I think it's fair to say that like a lot of the nay the the Riley naysayers are no longer naysayers, right? I mean you might still have somebody like Bill, our boss, who hated Riley because he coached the Lakers and now hates Riley because he is the GM of a team that always lays into the Lakers. But for the most part, I would say that well, for one thing, going to the Knicks, you know, you get enough people against you, then eventually everybody's on your side. There's a little bit of a Lakers and heat. Those are all hate magnets. All hate not heat magnets, hate magnets. Yes, but they but they absolutely they are. I mean he made the heat into a heat yes heat magnets. He made them worth hating. Because mostly because of his you know his his Nick's tenure. Um but does anybody really hate him anymore for the rivalries that he was a huge part of? Are there are there still anti-Lakers and anti-Nyx people. It's hard to imagine who those anti-Nick's people are at them at a moment like this in history. But are there still people that hate Pat Riley? I'm sure there are. But I feel like he's won a lot of them over just by being the kind of grand old man of basketball. He reminds you of the Lakers glory days more than you resent him for the Lakers glory days if you're a fan of the opposition. That's a great way to put it. I'm gonna put him as a maybe. Yeah. The other name I had here and related to Pat Riley is Karim Abdul Jabbar . No, because he's he was wasn't isn't he vocally political? Doesn't that just knock out like all of the Trump supporters in the country or something? He's not trying to be unknockable . No. You're right. Of all the people on this list, he might give the fewest shits about unknockability. So from that category, I like Hubie Brown as the best as our as our best nominee, but let's keep Raft and Dickie V and Pat Riley in our mind as we move forward here. Category number two, David, country music superstars. This is a bizarre category because we don't have pop music superstars. We have another singing category, right? But there's there'll be some more down the road. But this is a very specific thing and it mostly has to do with the fact that we grew up in Texas and just have like running jokes about country music musicians, not necessarily negative to the but but to the extent that like we are so up on country music. So who is on this list in the unknown category the unknockables category? Let's start with the person who may be number one over all in any category, Dolly Parton. That's just a yes. That's just an unqualified yes. One hundred percent yes.. Yeah Three years ago my son and I went to the Cowboys game on Thanksgiving and Dolly Parton was the halftime act. Mm-hmm. And she is up on a stage wearing a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader's outfit. Oh my god. Singing in addition to Jolene and nine to five, singing we are the champions. Oh my gosh. And you just look at this like this is just ludicrous and strange. Mm-hmm. Dolly Parton singing We Are the Champions in a Cheerleader outfit, but it was also awesome because she is Dolly Parton . She has no known enemies. Remember last year when she had the health scare? Mm-hmm. When her sister had that post, it was like prayers up for Dolly and everybody was like, Oh no. Yeah. And it turned out to be kidney stones and she was okay. And anyway, Dolly Parton. My wife went to Dollywood as a as a child, I believe. Also went as an adult. Uh but when as a child and there you know did you know the Dolly part? Are you familiar with like the Dollywood at all? Yes. I mean I'm been, but I know of it. But do you are you aware that like Dolly Parton has like an army of siblings who are the performers, the headline performers at Dollywood? Was this one of the sisters who was weighing in? No, it was Randy Parton. Somehow Dom got a Randy Parton cassette tape and and was obsessed with him for some reason. Randy Parton. Like the Frank Stallone of Dolly Parton. Yeah. But Dolly Parton is just a yes. She's a yes. Here's another name. She might have been on the original, I mean on on the the on the original ringer list. I could be wrong. She deserves it. How about Willie Nelson? Well again, seen as very political, but I think has a lot more crossover into the uh libertarian sphere than than uh Kareem does. Yeah, remember when he got in trouble when we were kids for pot and unpaid taxes? Yeah. Anybody against pot or unpaid taxes now? Did Willie have a point ? I remember when we were growing up and I'd read Texas Monthly. And after a while, you're like , if Texas Monthly could put Willie on the cover for 11 out of 12 issues every year, I think they would Yes. And I almost started as a as a young punk, as a as a rebel, David, to be like, I hate this guy. Screw Willie Nelson. I don't want to go to his July 4th picnic. Yeah. I don't want these old icons of Texas, but man, Willie feels absolutely the best. Just very unknockable to me. I mean, it is so it sort of says something about Texas that he's the icon of the state in so many ways, but has such a specific sort of political and social, you know, point of view. Yeah. I just think that at the core no matter what you want to say about you know, we just had a primary in Texas last night as we're recording this and and obviously the politics there are, you know , its own animal. But I do feel like there's this huge libertarian streak in Texas that conventional politics hasn't found a way to wrangle, you know, and that that sort of makes that that sort of in some ways Willie Nelson speaks for to all of Texas more so than Ken Paxon or whoever. I completely agree. And there are people at Ken Paxon's victory party who would be very happy at a Willie Nelson concert. Oh, very, very happy at a Willie Nelson. Aside from Willie's involvement, would you have been shocked to see Willie Nelson perform at that victory party? I mean, as I Willie would say no, but like if they had brought out Willie Nels or they had blasted on the road again, you wouldn't have been surprised. No . Uh this name's a little more regional. Actually, can I just say one more thing? Please. In some ways, Willie Nelson is the king of this cat uh king of this t th this this test because his politics don't matter at all. You know, in some ways. You know, it's like his his like he could is almost like well, I don't want to go into the Michael Jackson terr waters here, but it's but it's a similar thing where it's like the music is so good or the whatever, the icon is so is so implanted in the firmament that you don't think about the person that much. But in Willie's case it's there's a dow of Willie. Yeah. That is distinct, I think even from Dolly. For sure. Um, this is a little more regional, but I put George Strait in this category. You see a couple years ago when George Strait got a hundred and ten thousand people at Texas AM's Kyle Field. Yeah. It was just this unbelievable Twitter clip. Again, a little regional for probably a lot of listeners of this podcast, but inside Texas, Straight is unknockable. So let's uh we'll put Dolly and Willie down as we move on here. I think that's right. Um another category. Auto urs . Oh how do we feel about Martin Scorsese ? I feel like I should be able to think of a knock . I mean, don't you feel like the biggest knock on Scorsese in the past decade has been from film buffs who wished who wanted something different from him . Better late and late career movies? Yeah, but I think just to kind of put every detractor into one category, it's like people that had like like a a knit to pick with Martin Scorsese. Sure. Like you know I wish the Irishmen were a little better. I wish he Irishman were better. I wish he would it's I either wish he would do more of X or less of X. You know, like whatever. You know, I wish he would try something new, or I wish he would just go back and, you know just do casino too. Um But yeah, I think that he is unknockable. I'm trying to think of what like if if the if the loudest anti if the loudest anti-voices are coming from his corner basically then that kind of makes him an unknockable. I agree. And he's still an active director which is interesting. He's also a really good talker . There's lots of interviews, and those interviews always feel very deep and important , whether he's talking about movies or talking about life itself. Yeah. He's just a very interesting figure , in addition to being an interesting director, also a uh widely hailed actor for his performance in The Mandalorian and Grogu, where he plays a monkey with several arms who's running a food truck. Did you know that was him going in? I know we talked about this on the press box this week. So I saw his name in the opening credits. Mm-hmm. And then I was like, okay, what's gonna and I didn't I did not know that that had I did not know that that was gonna happen. So then I was my ears were open for Mark Did you did you pick it out? Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to figure out who he was the entire until the monkey came on screen. I was like, Oh, that's probably him. It was also just a weird vocal performance because it didn't sound like a voice actor. Yeah. So like why who is this? Why would this person be doing this? Of course. Yeah. It's why would you why would you pick Scorsese for that role if he's knockable ? You wouldn't put a like really devote, you put wouldn't put Lars von Trier in that role. You wouldn't put Michael Bay as the forearmed monkey . Um how about Steven Spielberg for this list? Now remember , we're not talking about greatest director of our era . We're not talking about, you know, living legend. We're talking about someone that everyone can agree is good. Spielberg make the cut? I have issues with disclosure day the title. Does that take him out of the running? I I the same thing every time I mention it to my son who's excited about seeing it, I get it wrong. Yeah. Yeah. I call it something else. Um that one is so weird. I mean it's not so weird, but disclosure day is one of those that every time I see it, I start to think maybe I'm crazy. Like how is it how does Spielberg have a bad movie title? Like this is either I'm missing the joke or this is what all movie titles will be like in five years. You know like I don't know what the like I just feel so I feel so put off by it that I feel like I'm the problem. Um and dude, can you imagine if this movie is bad and destroys an old guy still got it news cycle that has been golden for months. Listen, the thing with Spielberg movies is that they're is that they're at worst they're kind of surface. You know, that they could be deeper, they could be better. I have a hard time imagining it being bad. Like what was a what's a bad Spielberg movie? It has'sn been one that's just objectly bad in a long time. There have been some that have just been okay. In fact I think most of his recent movies have been good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's what I'm saying though. It's like I feel like he's such a machine that like it'd be hard for him to get something utterly wr Here's my only drawback with putting him on here is that he is still very much an active director. Yeah. And somehow being in the thick of it makes it harder just be perhaps because there's the potential to he will make a turkey, he will make another Always or The Lost World or wherever you want to pick as Steven Spielberg's worst movie. Mm-hmm. I don't know if that makes any sense. You know, he's he's like one of his Uncle Steven. He's very engaging. I don't know that there's an important anti-Spielberg contingent anywhere among critics, among movie fans, among the Do you think that the documentary that they did about him slash the Fablemans in terms of mining his own personal life and all that kind of stuff, do you think that that has any impact on the conversation we're having now at all ? Um I think I think him revealing himself like that a little more rather than just having a child in danger in every single movie that he's ever made, doing it a little more directly through autobiography, or at least dis partially disguised autobiography. I think that endeared into people. Yeah. I I didn't like the Fablemans. Am I allowed to say that? Yeah, I didn't love it either, but I think that that's sort of you get a pass on your biopic or on your on your memoir. Um I mean I think he's just automatically in . It's hard it's just hard not to. I feel like I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit. I'll put Spielberg down. Here's another name. Hmm. This feel this feels like and again we can we can when we get to the final list we can decide we only want one director or something like that. Yeah. Here's another name though. Mel Brooks . Has Mel Brooks become unknockable ? Yeah, I think Mel Brooks in some ways, although there's certainly people that disagree with his politics and blah blah blah. I think he transcends a lot of that. And I think in some ways he's like the sort of patron saint of this sort of list . Um you can't imagine having a bad a a bad conversation about him, right? You can't imagine like if any convers any Mel Brooks discussion in a bar is gonna be a good one. He's the classic uh artist who was a vul garian who his art was meant to offend you and make you laugh. Yeah. And then he aged into becoming this saint and everybody forgot about that. It's like, wasn't he great? Mel Brooks, yeah . Like it doesn't matter, and you go back and watch, even watch some of those classic movies. Some of them are just absolutely great, and some of them you're like, Woo, there's a lot of winces in there, yeah, or just a lot of jokes, even if you you laugh wouldn't be telling them out loud at that bar right now. No. Uh excited about Spaceballs too? Spaceballs two next year. He turns a hundred in June. Millbrooks. All right. Well let's get him on the list. Another Vulgarian turned lov able lug, John Waters . Just throwing the name out there. I mean he's a great one for the list . I don't know if he beats anybody any of the names we've already talked about, but like that's a just in terms of, you know, name recognition and everything else. I should put Ken Burns down as a nominee. I was thinking of Ed Burns. I'm like we're talking about autours, huh? He's knockable. He's writing novels now. Is he? Yeah. Uh Ken Burns just feels so an odyne. I do too. But it's like that is that the definition of unknockable or is that the antithesis of unknockable? I don't give a knock. So yeah. I think there's a lot of people who feel he's anodyne. Also, he's he just feels like he's making I I looked up as American Revolution series, which I think it was his last one. There were a lot of people that were just incredibly mad at it. So let's leave Ken Burns off the list. Yeah. All right, new category: Childhood Discoveries . May I present you with the author of Superfudge and Are You Their God? It's Me, Margaret. There you go. Judy Bloom. When did we talk about Judy Bloom? Didn't we talk about her on the show? We did because there's a new biography out. Oh, that's right. I mean , and she's she's not still producing work . I think she's mostly just being Judy Bloom. Wouldn't you love the Judy Bloom Old Guys Still Got It ? Like one more one more fudge book? Are we aging fud ge in actual years so Fudge is, you know, having a midlife crisis right now? Yeah. That would be great. Just a modern fudge . Um what would fudge do ? Dude, I have no idea. Is fudge like a YouTuber? Did fudge Storm the Capit onol January 6th? We lost Beverly Cleary, we lost Stan and Jan Barenstein. Judy Bloom is unknockable. Yeah. How do you feel about Calvin and Hobbs creator Bill Waterston? Well, he's not still producing. Yeah. Uh I mean he's on my list . I did see that they're repackaging and who knows how many years ago they did this, but I they have some cool new additions of the Calvin Hobbs stuff at the Barnes and Noble um that I will um excited to to buy for my little one someday soon. Um but is he too just out? Is he too just a thing of the past? That would be my only quibble . I think so. I think I I think he's on your he's on your greatness list and my greatness list, but I think that's a little different than what we're doing here. Yeah. I don't feel like there's enough discussion about him to really merit inclusion. Our friend Chris Solentrop suggested this one . Nintendo game designer Shiger u Miyamoto. I have no idea what his work is. Does he do the Mario book? The Mario games? Here's what he created: Donkey Kong , Super Mario Brothers, and The Legend of Zelda. Okay, yeah, he's on. He's in. Okay. Here we go. Well, I don't know. We'll have to do a some light post show research. Make sure there's no milkshake duckness involved here . I asked Chris, I said, who's the guy that just everybody loves from video game world? Yeah. How about it, could it be Mario? I know he's not a real person. I think I think there was I think nobody liked the last movie. So Mario one that just came out? Yeah. That was that was kind of a bust. I just think it's so crazy that Mario is an icon with our kids. Yes. That that's a real testament to something. But maybe that we maybe we just give that to the creator. I think it's amazing that Judy Bloom just holds up that I would just when my kids were young was like, okay, time to read these books. Yeah. It's true. And they were like, these are great. Her last book was 2015, by the way. 2015 . Anyway, yeah, yeah, sure. Let's put the what's the video game guy's name? Shiguru Miyamoto. Yeah. Miyamoto, you're on the list. Welcome to the list. Uh another childhood discovery for most people. Michael J. Fox . Oh God . I wish he had done what it was he just on an awards show or something? What did he what what did I j I saw him fairly recently do a th hard to He's love it. He has no enemies. Alan Siegel, our friend and uh ringer co-conspirator, also suggested Henry Winkler. That is an absolute great one. Uh I do have one I do have one counterpoint to this though. Okay. Are you familiar with hit hazardous history with Hen Henry Winkler? I'm not. It is a, I believe, a history channel sho w and it's good in theory. It's just like you turn it on and it's one of these things that just, you know the platform TV viewing is made for where you're just like, oh a whole episode about like the toys that were that were low-key lethal that we played with as kids, you know, and you're like, this is great. But Henry Winkler is the host in the most I'm just here for the paycheck sort of way possible. He is the host. He does the the you know the bumpers for every segment, but there are this is one of those talking head shows. And he's not one of the talking heads. It has nothing to do with Henry Winkler except he introduces the segment and does the outro too. And it and it's some of the it changes it changed the way I thought about Henry Winkler because I thought this guy was just a home run hitter every time he took the plate. But it turns out he can half ass it too. He can take a paycheck. Um, but I don't know that that's really detrimental to his case. I think Henry Winkler's a pretty great one. The fact that they wanted him to do a history channel show and paid him whatever m amount of money to show up and do a season in thirty minutes, I think speaks to his his unknockableness. The cheapo cable show is just so funny to me. We always see those clips from the one that Commander Riker, Jonathan Frakes did. Oh, I forgot about that. What did he? Was it a 9-1-1 show? No, no, it was a mysteries of the universe, I think. Oh, yeah. Is Henry Winkler on here? I mean I feel like he is just a beloved . Happy Days is a little old for you and me. We mostly saw that in as kind of a rerun. Yeah, for sure. Man, he is it feels like he's beloved. I feel like everybody involved not every just about everybody involved with with um arrested development is a is uh is a nominee for this list and but he weirdly even more than like Bateman or something might be the might be the the front runner because he's just yeah he's beloved . Okay, I'm gonna put him down. We'll make some eliminations later. We might have to pick one of him or Michael J. Fox. I would go with Winkler. Our new category, David. Space travel ers. Oh . Can I interest you in the second man to walk on the moon , Buzz Aldrin? Now, is Buzz Aldrin the one that has punched people for like questioning the legitimacy of the moon landing? Yeah. Okay, then put him on the list. That's great. Now, I don't know how we handle politics here. We'll just kind of figure this out as we go, but he endorsed Donald Trump in 2024, though largely on the grounds of space trav el. He's a woman. Pretty much . It's hard to find Buzz Aldrin knockable in any way . Yeah, I mean I think he's probably a jerk, but like, you know, that's what do you sometimes you have to be a jerk to make it an astronautary . Space travel. I should have said space travel. Go on. Another space traveler, Mark Hamill. Is he unknockable? I mean, I guess I'd probably put Buzz above him . But I but I mean we can pick more than one, but just throwing him out. Let me throw another name at you. Another space traveler, Patrick Stewart . Oh yeah . And he's gonna come back as Professor X, maybe, presumably too, which is big. I mean, listen, I think with Mark Hamill, he certainly has done he certainly is much more unknockable than he was even during his heyda y. Right? No, the the the victory lap that he got, but I just don't know if Mark Hamill's on the list. Um Yeah, I think Patrick Stewart is a low wattage defin ite ? You know what I mean? Like I think so too. I think he's that guy. He doesn't have the star power of certain people, but he also has the you know, we are all bought in on Patrick Stewart. Yeah. I've never heard someone say, you know who sucks ? Patrick Stewart. Uh I also put George Decaye and William Shatner in just for fun. I think Shatner's like another guy who's not seeking to be unknockable. He's seeking to be divisive. Yeah . All right. There's a big bottleneck when it comes to actors . We can't take all these people. We can't even take half of these people. We're gonna have to be very judicious here. I have grouped them by Oh, by the way, sorry, can I jump backwards real quick? Yeah. Patrick Stewart on what was the Ricky Gervais show? Extras? Extras hilarious. Unbelievable clip. I still watch it every once in a while. That's that's enough for Damakeliz . I group these actors by what decade of life they're in. Oh God. Okay. Um so let's start with the the centenarian thespi ans. Okay. Say that uh fast three times. These are people that are 100 years old and I only got one person in the category and he is Dick Van Dyke . Yeah, sure. Of course, Dick Van Dyke. Are you sure ? I mean, I remember I remember when we I guess you pitch him and then you're like, now let me tell you why not. Well, this is a debate show, David. This is like they did get canceled I'm just kidding uh remember when in the nineties when Diagnosis Murder was on the air and you and I were like that is a show we will never watch one moment of yes and Entertainment Weekly would always do that television preview every year. They'd pick a show like Diagnosis Bird and they'd be like, Nope. That would be the whole preview of the show. I don't I don't know if Dick Van Dyke is unknockable or just like he it's cool that he's 100. Yeah . Let's think about that. What are the knocks on Dick Van Dyke though? I mean, most of the most of the r huge positives are from a bygone era. I mean, he was another guy who was he felt old when we were kids . Oh yeah. Like he felt like he was from a from another time. He and Carol Burnett are the ones where you're just like funny you should mention her 'cause we are now at the Ben Cruz Executive Bruce or Bin Cruz says his British accent in Mary Poppins is atrocious. Okay, he's out. As a full-fledged Disney adult, I'll give Ben the benefit of the doubt on that. Thank you, Ben, uh, for for eliminating him. Non-aginarian thespians . Mm-hmm. How about the 93 year old Carol Burnett? There you go. Round of tributes a few years ago when she turned ninety. Mm-hmm. Also felt like somebody a little before our time. Yeah. Though she was still around doing stuff? Mm-hmm. Carol Burnett, she on the list? Yeah, yeah. Yes. Okay . Uh I also put down Julie Andrews . She lost her ability to sing. I mean I think that sort of ruins her. Goodness gracious . Well Julie Andrews. Sorry, you're out. Julie Andrews, what you know what's funny? She was on the original list of unblockables. She was 30 years old. Now she's 90 . Wow. There'd be a little symmetry to putting her on the list for some I don't know about you, but my kids will just watch the sym It's two eight. It's two VHS tapes. I know this because we owned it growing up. Uh June Squib is ninety-si x. Who? June squ une square, I guess she's not on the list. Uh Clint Eastwood is ninety-five . He made a movie two years ago that people liked. Juror number two. Yeah, that was good. Though he is very political and I still remember him talking to a chair at the twenty twelve Republican convention. And what did he show up at in the past year and he was like standing in the crowd in like like hobo clothes and a long be ard. I don't remember that. I do remember there's a there's those weird like licensed Twitter photos that you see. Mm-hmm . I don't know. I I feel like I feel like him being old and cre yeah, and I feel like everybody that works for them has a hilario has a hilarious story about him. Um I I would be great with putting him forward, moving him to the next round. Man, we're gonna have like fifty people on this . Well, next round will have to be cutthroat. Okay. Uh these are octogenarian thespians. How do we feel about Jack Nicholson ? I mean he's great. I don't feel like he's on the list. Morgan Freem an. Just in an Audi commercial. Mm. ah . I mean I think he's pretty beloved. I mean' Yeah, I dont know how you I don't know how you keep him off the list. Unless he's got some deep dark secrets. He's pretty unknockable. Harrison Ford I mean he's Indiana Jones, so let's let's separate that from Well he also got the he also got the victory lap and the Star Wars prequels. I mean sequels. And I'm and and now he's in shrinking. And I don't know if you've if you've seen him do any interviews, but it feels like he's just like he was just so giddy to be like have the opp oh when he won the award did he win an award for shrinking, is that what I'm thinking of? But it seems like he's just so giddy to have been afforded the opportunity to act. You know what I mean? Like he's just, I feel like he's so much more endearing now. Certainly probably a jerk, but yeah, he's not uh he's not a jerk on on talk shows like he was when we were kids. Yeah. It was like, I don't want to be here and I'm going to make this as painful and uncomfortable as possible. Yeah. I feel like yeah. Who doesn't love Harrison Ford? Some more By the way, I don't know what Harrison Ford's politics are and I don't think anything would surprise me. But I'd still say he makes the next round. No. Jeb Bush voter to me is my my uh leader in the clubhouse . Uh some more uh some more 80 somethings. Just stop me if any of these are interesting for this list. Robert De Niro , Jane Fonda. She's probably not unknockable. She's probably not unknockable on the bottom. Both very yeah. Lily Tomlin . Steve Martin . Al Pacino . An interesting name is John Lithgow. Oh God. He's in he's he's in the new Harry Potter thing, right? Yeah, and he's playing Roald Dahl on the Broadway stage, right? That's right. He's also very how old is he? He's in his 80s. Yeah, he's old . Um He's an interesting one. There was a good New York Mag piece by Rebecca Alter about him. Like he's doing this play about Roald Dahl, and the subject of the play is anti-Semitism and Israel. And then he's going to the Harry Potter universe, which requires navigating the whole J.K. Rowling question. And everybody's like, you know who's great? John Lithgow. Yeah, you're right. I mean, he's really hard to deny . No, and his body of work is so incredible. I think when I was a kid, when I was a kid, I feel like there was a little bit of like, why did we pick this guy over and in sure in my head, it was like whatever sitcom dad I like the best should have had this role or whatever. But when you go back and watch now, go watch Harry Hidr Harry and the Henderson's with your kids or whatever, and you're like, oh my God, John Lithgow was by far the best part of this. I completely agree. I did not like him as a kid. Yeah. I don't know if it was latent fear of going bald someday. How did how did that turn out? But he boy, I just love him now. Yeah. Also in the 80s something Wait, wait, say the list again. Oh I can look at it, but y there there was somebody else on that list that I thought should have some mention. Steve Martin. I know the Steve Martin one is interesting. I have no I love Steve Martin. I'm a lifelong certainly loved him as a kid when I hated Lithgow, and he's only gotten like I've only loved it learned to love him more and more. But why do I feel like he's not on the list? What am I forgetting ? I mean he's he's another guy who I don't think was going for universal acclaim. Mm-hmm. But has kind of aged into it. I'll put him down as a as a possibility. I mean, the banjo which he did, he played a lot of banjo in the 70s, but just like it's been a great skill to age into. He's also a writer, obviously, you know, and was a was a huge shop girl fan back in the day. And yeah, I just feel like I feel like he's just feel like he's got everything going for him. 70-something actors, Meryl Streep. Is that like Dolly? Is that straight onto the list? Samuel L. Jackson ? Yeah . That'd say no. Okay . This was came from our producer John Romer. John Goodman . Oh yeah. God . Does anybody not agree that John Goodman is good? No, he's fantastic. He was on a show with Roseanne and he escaped untainted and perfect. Uh other names, Denzel Washington, Bruce Will is , Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sigourney Weaver. Arnold is an interesting one. My biggest thing on Arnold is like, how is he not how why is he not doing bigger movies? Why did he come out of pseudo-retirement to just do like Netflix originals that like aren't even good or whatever? And he came out against gerrymandering. Yeah. But seriously, like why did you notot like why did he not just walk I guess he there was he did do a termin ator movie post uh governorship, but it seems like such a weird stage in his career. Like how are you who is his representation that is not just lining up sequels to all of his big hits from the 80s and 90s. Instead of just commercials with Danny DeVito. Yeah. Like Twins 2 would be huge. Who wouldn't go see Twins 2? Kindergarten cop to or, you know, college cop or whatever you want to say. You know, there's so many ways you can get it. That's how we've aged the character. Yeah. He's a he's a he's a college professor teaching criminology now. Um Yeah, that would be that would be fantastic. But yeah, but that that's my that's that would be my question about him. Yeah, I don't think there's anybody else from that list. So Gordy Weaver would have been interesting, but then I just saw the Mandalorian where she was saying some of the most horrible lines imaginable. That's not her fault. Uh Brian Cox. I also put Lori Metcalf on this list. Speaking of Roseanne, I feel like she's had a a big rally lately in the public esteem. Jeff Daniels, though he's a little political. Yeah, always happy to watch him. Sure. 60 something actors. How about Tom Hanks? Well, no, because all the crazy people think that he like kills kids and steals their shoes. Okay . Is that is that disqualifying? I don't know. We'll have to go to the judges on this one. Uh put George Clooney here, though Joe and Jill Biden might have other ideas. Mm-hmm. Julianne Moore is kind of interesting. Frances McDormand . Julia Louis D reyfus? Oh god, yeah. She was on the origin she was on the original ringer list. Okay, I'm gonna put her . Uh Angela Bassett and Keanu Reeves might have actually aged into their somehow. Yeah. Alright, this is a good category for us. Important book writers . Writers of important books or important people who write books? I think probably both. Okay. How do we feel about Stephen King being an unknown? Well, certainly political . Yeah, I checked the Twitter account last night and it was about the Texas Senate and the Epstein files. Just as the data point, please continue. Um But is he one where just people don't care? I think so. I think we're like entirely unaware . Like are the vast majority of people who buy Stephen King books even like on Twitter aware that he's on Twitter? Does that affect anything? No, I think he's sort of unknockable. I think he is, and he's feels like he's had this fourth-fifth act, whatever we're on with him with that started with it now there's all these in you know new adaptations yes he's on the list here's but do you don't you think that that doesn't the fact that they're making and he's just the writer but do the fact that they're making good content out of his books for the first time, even the weird things like that 1922 show on Netflix, or like whatever, it's like they're all good. Doesn't that make a huge difference? Because forever wasn't the knock that like he was the problem in the adaptations. Uh yes. Oh, absolutely. Like he's like I won't I refuse to have that director refuse to have it shorter than twelve hours so he has to be on TV back when T V was bad or like whatever. He would have some demands, including weirdly remaking the Shining 'cause he wasn't happy with Stanley Kubrick's version. But also they just it was crap and it made him seem lesser as a result. And then I feel like he started getting in the New Yorker and you know, the New York Times Book Review and like Well, and they're listen, and there was a yes, and there was a point where his writing, regardless of quality, was sort of ghettoized . Right? That that was like n something that was deemed like inappropriate for polite conversation. And now genre guy. Yeah. And now all of our great I mean, listen, historically you can make the case that so many of our great films the majority of our great films are genre novels adapted or genre concepts adapted. Um, but now I feel like everything is genre, and everything is so genre to the point that Stephen King is sort of like highbrow, um, almost, you know. And I think there has been like a mainstream rev uh reverence for his body of work, right? That that's a thing where, like, even the most erudite, you know, egghead is gonna be like, yeah, okay, but that but he does write really great stuff. I just don't love fill in the blank or whatever. Lyndon Johnson biographer Robert Cairo has to be on this list. Yes. Easy. Uh put Margaret Atwood's name down. What would be the best next act for him? Obviously, he has to finish the Johnson thing. But if he was gonna do if he was gonna crank out the jun the the is it one more chapter of the Johnson book? Yeah I think so. If that comes out, let's just say that comes out this year and it's quickly followed by a by a standalone biography he's been working on in secret all these years, who would you who would you love for it to be? Oh, I thought you were gonna say like he writes a spy novel under a pseudonym. Oh, that would be great. Um , I mean like if it was just like the guy who just spent three decades doing LBJ has like a five hundred page, you know , uh uh Bozo the Clown document book that's just been waiting to come out or something. It'd be great if it was like a current actor and the actor wouldn't talk to him. She's like, nah. Kind of saving it for my own memoir. I put Margaret Atwood down. I put Haruki Murakami down. Atwood's a good one. I mean her stuff is more popular and more prescient than ever. I mean, I she's certainly of the authors that we've named my favorite. Uh I also put David Grant and Patrick Radden Keefe down. More recent. I don't think they're on this list yet. I don't think they're on the list because I feel like I don't know who they are. Like I don't like I feel like they're made you know You know who they are. No, I'm just saying if this were the you know, sixties or seventies, if the if we get to if we got to see David Grant on like, you know, a t a a late night show just chatting it up for forty-five minutes twice a year, then I feel like I would have a much better concept of the So that's a good point, because books have gotten smaller. Yeah. Be they've become a smaller part of American culture. Mm-hmm. And and those kind of guys that sold the kind of books they do and are as popular as they are would have just been very, very different media figures. Yes. Thirty, forty years ago. I mean David Grant did have a sixty minutes segment about him, so he's gotten there, but sixty minutes ain't what it used to be either. Yeah. Don't you feel like that's help that's that's I mean listen, there's a lot of issues with late night. You've done way more work on this than than I have, but I almost feel like I would have much better opinions of some of the late night hosts over the years if they were allowed to bring their favorite writers on for lengthy conversations . Yeah. Haven't some of them done that? I mean, I'm sure they have , but like, you know, like Dick Cavot was just like rolling out best selling authors, you know, twice a month or whatever. And and that never it doesn't happen like that. I feel like Seth Myers is the guy doing that now. Maybe. I can't say that I watched it in real time. So I'm just seeing the Twitter clip . Uh here's another category for you: pint-sized mascots . Go on. How do you feel about punch the orphan monke y? A knockable? The monkey with the p stuffed monkey? Yes. The Japanese macaque that was abandoned by his mom and now carries around a stuffy. You're gonna I mean what am I gonna say about a monkey ? I mean he's pr he's do you know people are like I don't like punch? Jon Stewart kind of tried for like one show and then gave up Okay but it he this is punch in the abstract let's think about like punch in a concrete way if you said like you have to clean punch's cage or something yes, that's exactly where I was going. I youf told Christine, Hey, guess what? They gave me punch, I'm bringing him home today, what would she say? Well, I don't know, but I don't if I want to live with, you know, Robert Cairo either in the house. No offense to Robert Cairo. Okay. But I don't think you would say I don't think there's anybody on the on the wor on the earth with the even with the person's worst opinion of him, they'd be like, Robert Cairo is filthy. Like he's just a disgusting life form. And there's definitely somebody who would say that about a m any monkey. I don't know which other one it would be a mess. Yeah. Having having the monkey run around the house would be a mess, but we'll um we'll we'll uh keep that in the back of our minds as we continue this category. Mudang the pygmy hippo was another nominee. Feels a little twenty twenty-four . How about Fekined Bald Eagles Jackie and Shadow? Let's just advance the monkey and move on . I put Baby Yoda in this category, but I think he took a hit last week. I don't know, man. Baby Yoda's still pretty bulletproof. He was the best part of that movie . But I think the whole baby ota brand's tainted. You think so? Well, it's just I had a good run with it. It had a good run . I feel like This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list, not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com, enter your license plate or VIN and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. 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PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis, causing a curve with a bump during an erection that for some men may lead to pain during intimacy and impact mental health. A trusted urology specialist can help diagnose PD and walk you through your options, including non-surgical treatment. Visit talkaboutpd. com . Animals. Animals both live and manufactured. So get Grogo in here too. Aliens kick animals and aliens deserve their own bracket . But you just advance punch the monkey. I say go ahead and brackets. I'm just thinking, like, is there any celebrity animal that we're not advancing to the next round? Does Rin Tin tin does Asta the dog? No longer with us. Oh yeah, okay. But still. You're dead. I I did the rules at the beginning, and he is Rintin Ten is bye-bye. All the dogs of our youth are gone. We're just doing the monkey. We have no monkey, it is. Uh, I need your help with this category, David. Musicians taking victory laps . Okay . You saw him on the late show finale. How about Paul McCartney ? Yeah. McCartney's if McCartney retires before he passes, it will be an odd moment, but not too shocking, right ? No. I mean at this point all he has to do is occasionally pop up and do things like that You sounded pretty good. Yeah, he sounds good. He doesn't sound like peak Paul McCartney, but then who does? Um Sure, who hates Paul McCartney ? I get a couple other names in here for you. Cher . Is she taking victory last? I don't have a problem with Cher, but okay. Uh how about Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter composer John Williams? A hundred percent. The most unknockable person in the world. You know, if he'd just been the soundtrack of our childhood, he probably would be on the list. Yes. But now he's the soundtrack of our children's childhoods. Yeah. John . And notice he he did did n't do the music for the Mandalorian and Grogu. When did he stop doing the Star Wars movies? He did Disclosure Day though. Oh he did? Yeah. Oh my god. Did but did he do the did he do all the Star Wars movies up until now? He did the he did the uh Skywalker chapter films. Yeah, but he didn't do uh so the lesser stuff. Yeah, okay. Uh Neil Diamond Interesting . They just had that Hugh Jackman movie, right? About the Neil Diamond imperson ator? Yeah. Uh I don't know, man. He can't sing anymore. Some people hate Sweet Caroline. I'm gonna say no on that one. Yeah, I'm gonna say no too. Elton John . Oh that's a good one . Had a big farewell tour that went on for like ten years. Is it over? I think it's over. I've missed my chance. My one goal in life was to see. That would have been great fun, by the way. Yeah . Um Sure. Put 'em put em advance him, I guess. Uh more names . Yeah. Stevie Wonder. Oh, that's a good one. If you had to do I mean, isn't it sort of the thing with being on American Idol? I think he's still on American Idol is that you are sort of like arithmetic uh arithmetically unknockable, but not it but but immediately just sort of knockable once you're on the show. Yeah, I think I think that's that's not clear. Stevie Wonder versus Elton John is a good is a good contest. It is. I'm gonna write that down for the next round. Uh Bruce Springsteen, I think it's probably a little political . Uh Mike I put Michael McDonald now that he's uh rallied at the end of the yeah I mean he is sort of unknockable. Randy I don't yeah, I don't know. It's a little bit odd. But yeah, just the sheer number of like Michael McDonald reaction videos available on YouTube . Randy Newman 's kind of in that zone a little bit. Oh yeah. He's a good one. Here's another serious thing. I guess if he did Toy Story 5, I mean Randy, you're talking about the the the soundtrack to our childhood Randy Newman's soundtrack to like two and a half gener ations of kids. Oh, and in the trailer, it's all rocked out now. Oh, really? Yeah. Is it Randy Newman still or is it still modern? Yeah. It just feels different. Yeah. Okay. Um, here's a serious nominee who made a career of being unserious. Is Weird El Yankovic on Knox. Oh . So I'm just scanning every time you say a name, I'm scanning for Knocks. I think weirdo Yankovic is weirdly maybe the most unknockable of anyone you've mentioned. I think so too. I think he's on the list. All right, I got another category for you. Dames and Sirs. O,oh love this. Okay. It's gonna be hard to it's kinda hard to knock a knighted person, but let's go. It is. Uh how about Sir David Attenborough, 100 years young. Yeah. Good great piece about him on the ringer. Um Danny Chow. Well that's right, that was Danny. Um Everybody loves David Attenberg. Yeah. Yeah, he's on. Uh Dame Helen Miran. Ooh, she's a great one. Give you a few others for context. Dame Judy Dench. Uh-huh. Sir Anthony Hopkins. Mm-hmm. Former Manchester United manager, Sir Alex Ferguson. Oh . I mean , I feel like Harry Miron's the the the my favorite of that bunch . Yeah, I mean Anthony Hopkins is in there too, but I just feel like we're just naming like the great actors of our generation rather than I feel like people don't like Anthony Hopkins. Not for his acting ability, but I just feel like there's a weird there's something weird about him. I don't know. Mm-hmm that year and it was just like here's a still photo. That was fun . Uh I put down authors of good tweets. Oh, yeah. Not sure anybody needs to get needs to advance here, but uh Joyce Carroll Oates, Michael Cain, oh yeah, Dan Rather and Kevin Nash from the world of professional wrestling. You know my heart's with Kevin Nash. His geopolitical takes are just heavyweight caliber. Uh purposely divisive. No, he's not No. You appreciate a lot of them though. Let's go to TV hosts and presenters. This is a fascinating list. Ernie Johnson. A hundred percent. I think so too. Just won himself another sports Emmy last night. Uh David Letter man . Yeah. I mean, Dave was purposefully thorny during his days on television. Yep. Less so toward the end. Mm-hmm. Came a little more huggable and lovable. But you say he's on there? Yeah. I mean I think we loved his thorn iness. Christian Amanpur . Ooh . Who put her on the list? I mean, she's hard to knock her. But yeah, I'm not, I don't know if she's on the list. Let's see what else I got. Dame Prue Leaf . Oh . Yeah. Eighty six years old. She just retired from the great British baking show. What's next for her ? It's a good question. Is she gonna write a pseudonymous spy novel too . Or just a kitchen confidential type book. I put former BBC host Melvin Bragg on here. I love Melvin. Yeah. And Brian Phillips suggests uh British football presenter Adrian Childs. I don't know much about Adrian Childs, but I looked at his Wikipedia page and there was no issues and controversy section, just a charity work. Okay, well that's good. So that's in his favor. Adrian Childs does not have to use a pseudonym to write a mystery novel, by the way. He just did his go with Adrian Childs . Absolutely right. This is tough. Sports people . Okay. People are very divisive. Is that all are all the sports announcers would they have been in the previous category ? Yeah. Or are some of them in this? I have somebody coming up later. Okay . I don't know how many sports announcers are on knockable other than Hubie Brown. Those guys are just look at Twitter during any game. Yeah. I mean, we would make the case for Joe Buck and Troy Yikman, right? But I don't know if you put them on the list. I don't know. They're coming up as a duo. Uh sports people, so active players is really hard just 'cause they have a big hater fan base. Mm-hmm. Or anti fan base . Steph Curry He's gotta be the most unknockable. Shohai Otani. Oh, well, I mean I feel like still Otani and Trout are still sort of like I mean Otani's obviously the better player, but Trout's the more obscure. I feel like Otani is still laboring in some level of obscurity despite being in a on a mu in a much bigger venue, obviously in like a much bigger platform. You haven't seen Dodger ticket prices lately then. Okay. I'm okay. I'm good with Otani and and Steph. Wemby maybe Well, I think it's a little bit early. I think there's uh the way that the Knicks run is going, if the Spurs the Spurs are either gonna lose in the conference finals or be the Darth Vader to the Knicks Millennium Falcon, or wait that's a really mixed meta that didn't line up, but you know what I mean. Yeah. Star Destroyer to the Knicks Millennium Falcon. And uh and that might really affect his his permanency on this list. Andy Reed . Thinking about football coaches, he might be the most unknock able . Pat Mahomes is another good one. But I feel like people sort of people hate him. No, I know. And I feel like that but I feel like there was a moment where you could have So those are the active guys. What if we take a little distance? Okay. And consider the case of Barry Sanders. Oh, he's a good one . Does anybody dislike Barry Sanders? Only Lions fans from when he retired really young. They don't resent him. They don't resent him. And then you know me, I'm on Team Emmett Smith and I always have been, always will be. How can you not love Barry Sanders? How can you not be okay with Barry Sanders? Do you what about I mean, first of all, I agree. Second of all, was it dancing with the stars? What element of of Emmett's post playing career do you think sent him in a different direction than Barry? Every uh segment he did for ESPN. Yeah . My answer to that question. Uh I also put down Bo Jacks on. I mean, documentary was great. The it it institutionalized the legacy of him as a video game character. But he did not run for Senate in Georgia. No, he did not. Um which might have made him less okay in some people's minds . Olympians I put down Usain Bolt, Simone Biles, and Michael Phelps. Usain Bolt might be there. Hussein so Simone Biles is pretty good too. Although ever I mean, did everybody get their did everybody get enough individual hate at the last several Olympics online that we just sort of toss it all out? Uh just it's just hard when they're recent, even if it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Cause you know, I mean like well this is a I think a central question to this or to this conversation, right? Like there was who's like the most famous Olympian like Mary Lou Rettin would have been the cover star of this issue of the Press Box magazine in nineteen eighty, whatever that was. Eighty four. But not Not through not because of anything negative, just isn't would never not be any isn't anywhere near the list now, right? So do you take that into account or do you embrace the fact that Olympic glory uh Uh you know, is fleeting but significant. It's a tough one. I mean Carl Lewis, I feel is still controversial in a way. He was very controversial. Maybe that's been dimmed a little bit over time. Couple more names for your consideration. Like is Alyssa is like is Alyssa Lou on the list? I think she I think she kinda is right now, but it just so she's so unformed, you know. Yeah. And again, maybe that's all she is. Maybe it's a gold medal and that's that's perfect. That's the way it goes with Olympics. Like you say, it's all fleeting. Yeah . Uh Sandy Koufax is still at Dodger Games looking incredibly well attired. He's 90. Every time I hear that he's alive, I'm shocked. I think I I assumed he would be dead by two decades . Uh Marv Levy is a hundred years old. Oh my god . Billie Jean King's a pretty interesting one. Oh yeah . I mean, is there anybody who's like I don't like Billy Jean King? I need some real sexist dudes. Sure , but I think we can ignore them. There's also kind of an interesting eighties, nineties list. Magic and Larry . Yeah, put 'em together, it's hard to I mean individually, I feel like you could knock both of them, but you put 'em together and it is just sort of a great nostalgia nostalgia play. Larry overcomes Magic's recent tweets. Yes. Uh Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Nolan Ryan, Dr. J , Akeem, Elijah One . I could go on and on . I feel like Dr. J is the closest of that bunch, but I don't really know. I kind of like Barry Sanders. I mean, Barry Sanders is a yes for me. I thought I was just talking about after the Barry MX. Sandy Koufax. Yeah. Billie Jean King . You're calm that one. We'll narrow it we'll narrow it down. Uh public intellectuals, David. Oh, I like this category. Neil deGrasse Tyson. I feel like people I mean, he feels like an obvious yes. I feel like people hate Neil deGrasse Tyson, though. He's too liberal. Yeah, a lot of overexposure. People started calling out like the things he got wrong, which is not good for any public intellectual because whether or not you were wrong or right, people can make it seem like you were very wrong. You can have a laundry list of things. Um Um I don't know. I feel like I actually need to like take a step back and like pull some of the universe on Neil deGrasse Tyson to figure out where he is right now. The actual planets. Yes . It's funny because I was thinking like, would any TV show or podcast not take Neil deGrasse Tyson as a guest right now? No. Like if he wanted to come on the press box and talk about the Ross Barkin controversy, we'd be like, sounds great. Yeah. He was on Rogan I think more than I mean uh uh several times, and I feel like the Rogan crowd hates him now. Uh because of his performance there. But I don't know what that was. I I I feel you might be right. That's let's table that for a moment. I did get this actually when I was walking around for romance bookstore. Carlo Rovelli, the Italian theoretical physicist. Oh yeah. He's big. Yeah. Sells a lot of books. I don't know if this fits his uh public intellectual, but I'll throw it down here. Penn and Teller . I love Penn and Teller. Are they unknockable ? Again , they've had some pretty low wattage shows . But again, this is not like were you the most successful was everything a hit? This is can we all agree that you're good? Can everyone get together? and say, you know what We like Penn and Teller. Penn is one of the only people whose podcasts I will occasionally listen to for no reason at all, other than it's just hanging out with Penn. I mean, that's basically the format of his podcast. It's not like structured in any real way . Uh once one time I needed him or I wanted him for a story, this is like 20 years ago, and I I swear I sent an info, you know, an email to info at pingillette.com and he called me back within minutes. Really? Yeah. I've always wanted to meet him. I just feel like uh just get him talk- I mean, it's not like it's hard. Just hearing him talk about just like archaic terms from the magic world for five hours it'd be incredible. Also uh I don't know if this is a public intellectual either and it's probably a no, but I at least wanted to mention John Stewart's name. I mean the most divisive he would be the most divisive name on the list , and yet I put him on there. Put him in advance in the next round. Let's have him failing. So many people have tried to do Jon Stewart. Yeah. And have failed to do Jon Stewart . I feel like even the people even the right wingers out there are just more like disappointed in John Stewart's politics than like down on him as a c comedian, as a performer. That's the thing. He's actually fun,ny. Yeah. And he will take shots to the left. Uh, here's the category for you. People that bring us closer to God. Okay . Pope Leo the Fourteenth . He's kind of like a little bit. Let's just say let's not agree with him. I just say popes popes are ineligible for lists previously because they would have been uh too easy and now because it's too hard. Pope uh by the way, the Pope was on the previous list. Pope Paul was on the original unknockables just for trivia purposes. Uh the Dalai Lama . No, I feel like he's knockable. I feel like everybody knows about some very specific Dalai Lama related financial scandal or something. Not not his doing, but just sort of like not to accuse the Dalai Lama. Wasn't Dalai Lama fundering funding that uh sex cult that what's her name was in? The video what's it called? What? Nexum Nixum ? Dude, this is this you're on the Dalai Lama was involved in that story. On a media podcast, you're like, wasn't the Dalai Lama funding and then just make an accusation like that? He was involved in that. He was in the documentary. Right. It was very alleged. Not him. He showed up because they made a because what's his name made a car reading? I don't want to dig into these things that I don't understand, but we are the Dalai Lama is off the list. Okay. Suffice it to say. Um ballet dancer Misty Copeland. Just maybe . Sure, but not I don't know. I don't uh not big enough. This one came from Christine. Ina Garten. Oh, great one. Right? When you were talking about Romans earlier, I thought you were for some reason I thought you were gonna say you looked at the cookbook section because there's some good options in there. There's some good options and I asked her, I said, like who's the most uncompli who's the person that everybody agrees is good? And I think the answer is on a card.. Yeah I put some potentially unknockable institutions on this list . Inside the NBA. Okay. Pardon the interruption. Oh, yeah. The criter ion Collection. Ooh, it's having a moment. Wikipedia . Now people don't like Wikipedia. And letterbook. And what? Letterboxed. Oh, that's a good one. I would say of that group, PTI and Criterion are the leaders. Now we can decide on their eligibility later on, but I but in terms of just do they make it to the next round? Yes. I agree. Uh double X . Joe Buck and Troy Aikman . Yeah. Tina Fay and Amy Polar . Yes. I also put Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen on this, but I think we already advanced Patrick Stewart on other grounds. Yeah. I mean you could put PTI on this list too. Um I like all both those . Uh politicians. Sort of part of me at the beginning of this was the had the had the inkling of an idea that we could figure out the right presidential nominee for whichever party by doing this process and uh then doing the actually doing the work is like there's no way. Yeah, it's gonna be uh Stephen King and Steven Spielberg running his his uh V nominee. That's I'll just pick random names. Henry Winkler and Julie Andrews will be the uh beyond the ticket. I really could I mean everybody's hated, right? You know, Bernie's got a lot of grudging respect from the right now, I think, but Bernie Sanders is not uh unknockable for this list. Michelle Obama, certainly not Andy Bashir, Phil Scott, the Republican governor of Vermont. Yeah, I like Bashir. He's sort of the archetype, but I don't know if he's not on the list. Just getting clicked in a red state. How domin ant a victory would James Tallerico have to have to w to be out to be late a late add to this list? Like if you won if he won like 70-30, would it be would he be on the list? If you've just seen the first round of attacks against James Tallerico, he is he would have to be a hundred to nothing for him to make the list. I thought former New Zealand Vice Prime Minister Jacinda Arden might be on the list, but she had some really low approval ratings at one point. Uh mobile's big that's a that's the deal. Don't get into the approval rating business. If you want to be an unknockable, yes, just don't just don't take a job where people measure your approval. Moguls. I got Barry Diller , Warren Buffett, and Lauren Michaels. If you're interested in any of those people, I'd say Lauren is a yes specifically in this moment. We've got the SNL UK, SNL seems to have more relevance than just about any time outside of a presidential election in our lifetimes. Uh we might not have said that ten years ago. Probably probably wouldn't have said that ten years ago, but man, he feels like it now. But the other two, no. They're two mog ley . Uh funny men, this is the final category . Larry David. Oh god, yes. Martin Short . Okay . Eugene Levy . Will Farrell and Conan O'Brien . Okay . Say the list again. Larry David. Martin . Tentative, yes. Yeah. We already get Steve Martin on the list. Unless we do them as a pair. Maybe make it more. No, because they were on the t there's only kill only murders in the building together and they've done, you know, they tour together. Huh? They tour together. Three amigos together . One of the great classics of our lifetime. Um so so uh so that's a that's a qualified yes. Then what would who what what was the list? Uh David, Martin Short, Eugene Levy, Will Farrell, Conan O'Brien. Will Farrell and Conan O'Brien are both and Larry David are all good options. I think they did. I think I think all the time. Yeah, maybe so . But he does like host the Oscars and has a successful podcast. He does. He's very he's very loved. Of all the former late . Tina Faye and Amy Polar are a good one too. Like I it's just I feel like all these require like arguments. As a duo? Yeah . Yeah. We got Tina and Amy, Joe and Troy, Steve Martin and Martin Short or for the PTI guys. I think feel like we should pick one of those maybe . All right. What's right. A separate championship belt is being defended. Let's go through the list here. Hue Brown, I'm all in . Dolly Parton? Yes. Willie Nelson. I mean we do we need to lose the other? I feel like Dolly might might X out. Okay. I think well this is where we have to make some hard decisions. We just can't keep every I feel we need Scorsese or Spielberg . Spielber g seems more apt in a weird oh no Spi Spielberg seems like a better Spielberg seems more obvious, but but Scorsese feels more apt. Does that make sense? 100%. We keep in Mel Brooks? Yeah. Judy Bloom ? Yeah. Miyamoto, the Nintendo inventor? Yes. Michael J. Fox and Henry Winkler? Nah, just Winkler. Just Winkler. Buzz Aldrin and Patrick Stewart . I love both of those so much . Um Patrick Stewart's really fun to have on the list. We have a lot of actors . Yeah. Should we just do are we are we keeping the categories at all or are the categories gone by the wayside now? They've gone by the wayside. We're just looking for the best of the best. Oh . I mean, you could almost do a whole subcategory of like space themed also rans, right? This will be on our new uh podcast doing a backdoor pilot for 'cause you could do 'cause you can you almost make the case for so many of those Star Wars names that we talked about. Oh for Neil deGrasse Tyson for my you know, for you could you could put in throw in Rocky from Project Tail Mary in there. Um yeah, he would have been a good mascot one too. I mean, because he I feel like he's more popular than Grogu now, right? But there's like a whole I feel like the new better than Punch the Monkey. That's the Is space just weirdly disqualifying? Are we just gonna say n I think we should almost say no to everybody that's space related? Okay, so no Patrick Stewart and no Buzz Aldrick. This is an earthbound contest . Wait, you get penalized if you've either really or fictionally been to space. I feel like by practi uh in pra for practical purposes, yes. Okay. So I'm gonna cross them off . Um Um Julia Louis Dreyfus or John Goodman ? Think both. If we did indeed do Julia Julie Louis Dreyfus before I would go John Goodman. I think so too. Uh Merrill Stre ep, we're keeping? Yeah. Got two. Steve Martin or John Lithgow or both? Lithgow, and then we'll consider Martin for the team awards. Okay . Uh let's keep like one of the LA Harrison Ford, Morgan Freeman, or Clint Eastwood . Again, Harrison Ford disqualified because of space . I would like to let John Litgow, third rock from the sun. Heame c from another planet . Great point. Also didn't like that show because of Lithgau. No, I didn't either. I think Lithgau is kind of on this list. Yeah, I think Lithgow . And we're good with uh no Morgan Freeman or Clint Eastwood? I mean they're both good options to have in the back pocket. If we need a round number, we'll come back. We'll come back. Uh Julie Andrews? No . Carol Burnett. Oh, although Julie Andrews was on the original list. Is she the only holdover? That's that's kind of fun. Okay, let's keep let's keep her on. Okay. Uh Carol Burnett? Yeah . Keeping Carol Burnett. Uh Stephen King, yes, right. What is Julie Andrews ex out Carol Burnett? Uh maybe one of the two. Okay. Let's stick with Julie Andrews then, yeah. Julie Andrews. Um What was Carol Burnett in recently? Oh, she was in that um She had a New York TV show. Yeah, but it but it was she was she done what's it called? The the Kristen Wig show on Apple TV. She's actually very good. Stephen King's on this list . Yes. Robert Caro . I'm very good with that. Yeah. Margaret Atwood . Do we do Carrow versus Atwood? Are there are there Atwood haters out there? Carol vs. Atwood is such a weird literary face-off. Yeah. Are there Atwoods? I feel like there I feel like for some reason I feel like there's Atwood haters, but I don't know. Well, and there's probably political, there's probably people that are invested in that politically. We could just take Stephen King as our novelist, too . Yeah, we could just do that. Okay . Um let's see. Punch the monkey. Have to have some kind of mascot, unless you want to put Rocky in, but I think punch is funny. Okay, Punch is great. Uh Paul McCartney or Elton John or Stevie Wonder. I feel like one of those guys should be on it. We should just make a tough choice. It's a freaking deathm matatch. It really is. Um I mean Paul McCartney we just saw on TV, which is relevant but also , right? Season finale of SNL. Which is relevant but also skews the perception a little bit. It really does. And it doesn't it doesn't really matter for this. I mean, is any of that stuff, if we look back even in a year, has anything that Paul McCartney's done does any of it rival like Stevie Wonder's relevance for Obama's election? Yeah, like being like the theme song. Well Stevie Wonder for every single like every single uh party nominating convention ever. Like he just he is the he is the sub ject also Stevie Wonder. We saw Stevie you and I saw Stevie Wonder perform about 10 feet away at a at a club a decade a or twogo. But I swear, I have I've been to a couple of these and watched the rest on television, but every time the nominee speaks, signed, sealed, delivered, I'm yours is on the speakers. Yeah. Here we go. Is it Stevie? Yeah, I think it's Stevie. It's Stevie . All right. Uh John Williams has gotta be on the list. Yeah, a hundred percent. Weird Yankovic. Yes. I kinda like it. Yep. Uh Sir David Attenborough? Yes. I'm happy. Uh Dame Helen Mirin ? Yeah . Okay . Uh Ernie Johnson . Yes. He just screams on knockability. But Helen Mirren put an asterisk next to her name. I feel like the with the the list is getting long, but uh but anyway, yes. Uh Letterman? I mean yes. Prue Leith . Yes. I like all these names. I like some of you you gotta take some off, because I can't be the arbiter on all these other things. Barry Sanders. I mean, it's nice to have an athlete or two on there. I like Barry Sanders. Okay. Uh Sandy Koufax or Billie Jean King. I feel like we should pick one . I think To me it's Koufax, but I don't know. I mean, but I could be I could be like actually wrong. I don't I don't know there. Yeah . I mean Sandy Koufax just has this unbelievable again, somebody that felt like he was from a hundred years ago. A ballad when we were children. All right, we'll go with Sandy. Uh Penn and uh Teller. I mean that's a yes for me. I too. I'm with you. John Stewart. I feel I feel it's a no through no fault of John Stewart's own. Ina Garten's a yes. Okay . PTI . Uh or let's see. Are we in for the criterion collection as our institution? Criterion's good. And if we gotta pick one duo, it's gotta be PTI. You think Tony and Mike over, Joe and Troy, Steve Martin and Martin Short and Tina Amy? Yes. Okay . And I mean I wouldn't be opposed to having more than one duo in there, but I definitely think Pete is easy number one. And we're good with Lauren Michaels. Yeah . It's a pretty good list . I love this list . Uh I also put down some funny ones here. Ringer unknockables, hundred percent approval rating within the ringer. John Mullaney. ringer employees. Yes, okay. John Mulaney. Oh yeah, Chris Ryan being but John Mullaney and uh Darrell Daryl Morey, maybe slightly shaken as of late. He just got fired by the Sixers and it seemed like the the seventy five Sixers fans that worked for the ringer were all happy about it. Uh we also got recently departed unknockables . These are people that are this is the in memoriam section? The in memoriam section. Oh man. Get out of Hanky . Who from this list would not be on list. Robert Duvall. No way. Just kidding. Keep going. Norman Lear. Uh-huh. Gene Hackman. Yeah. Katherine. Hackman's Hackman's number one on my list, but go ahead. Same. Catherine O'Hara. Mm-hmm. Jane Goodall. Yeah. James Earl Jones. Oh God, yeah. Dame Maggie Smith. Mm-hmm . Bill Russell. Yeah. Willie Mays. Mm-hmm. Ricky Henderson . Yeah. John Lacare . Yeah. I just started reading the book his son wrote, the the the the new uh the the f what uh what is it called? It's not it's like it's his it's he's using a pin name, but he's not writing as he's a smiley book, right? Yeah, it's a smiley book. Sure. Uh John Lacari , John Madden, John Lewis, mm-hmm , and Jim Lovell of the Apollo 13. Yeah. For sure. That would have been our exception to the no space rule. Yeah, well we've had to fight over it, but sure. The David uh rather sloppily enforced. Also, before we go, these people are knockable But is there a path to unknockability? Okay . Are there any royals that could be? I feel like there was a moment where certainly Harry and Megan would have been on the list . Uh not, anymore . Is there a path for Prince William ? Or Kate, his wife, who is much more well liked, but has a very noisy hater contingent online. I could see Kate getting there for sure . Um maybe a William . Maybe William becoming king would be enough to put Kate over the top. Kate Kate that Kate there's a path. William is an interesting one. I do think there's a crazy there's a crazy path that he could take that would make that would get him likable. You know Steven Stephen A. Smith, does he have a path? Sure. Not running for president, but yes. Kinda reminds me of Christopher Hitchens, where I was like, Man, how could you support this awful in a legal war. And then when he died, it's like, why can't they make him like Christopher Hitchens anymore? Uh Zuran Mamdani . He's a great one. I mean, for all of the voices that are anti-Mom Don Mom Donny i within the Democrat Party and without, uh it weirdly feels like he's got more crossover approval rating than like any other Democrat, right? Uh I'm not talking, I'm not talking about the the purple politicians. I just mean like of all like the the true blue dims, I feel like there's always I mean, look, he charmed Trump. I feel like there's always people who were coming out of the woodwork to be like, New York's a hellhole, but this one idea of my like having people pick strivel the snow was a great idea. You know, like whatever. I do think that there's a path for him. I do think he could be America's mayor. Norman Thomas was on the original list. There could be a socialist slot on the original. That's true. I do I yeah . Um don't you think New York should just start should just lay claim to America's mayor because they had the they had the previous one and just anoint every new mayor of New York America's mayor? Who was the last one? Rudy? Yeah, just Rudy. But we've had a couple of New York mayors who were not American Bill de Blasio was not America's mayor. No, but wouldn't it be a great chick for him to go out in every press conference and be like, Welcome, America's mayor, Bill de Blasio, you know, and he's just like it's just coming out pre ening in front of the crowd. You won the election, so therefore you are America's America. Like the Cowboys will never stop being America's team, no matter how many seasons they're not America's team. Yeah. Uh how about Ezra Klein? Does he have a path? No . I think his approval I think he's done incredible work for himself, but I don't think there's I just think that corner of the world is just too many people are dedicated to knocking you for it to be an unknockable. I didn't put any showrunners on this list . It's still a sort of like ephemeral job description, right? Like we don't we know Yeah, I mean I guess I guess like David Chase. I mean is there is there somebody, you know, who who's in the kind of auteur category from from Shauna Rhimes? I mean she's still doing she's she might be one of I know there's other examples, but like when she signed that Netflix deal, it felt kind of like she would never live up to it, and then Bridgerton came along and and I don't know who else of that very well-paid showrunner class is is is is completely successful. I'm sure Ryan Murphy is successful on paper, but um relevance kind of comes and goes, I don't know, Shonda Rhymes is an interesting one. She's an interesting one. By the way, we still got an asterisk next to Helen Mirren. What do I do with this before we uh shut this thing down? Um well in an editorial board meeting, you'd be balancing out men versus women and everything else and deciding whether or not Harry and Marion. Is there any other actor on the list that makes her seem like a misfit ? No . I just watched Prime Suspect the other day. I watched the whole thing. Yeah. In in uh parts before I was going to sleep and I just loved it. It's a great mirror. Helen Miron's. British crime is the best going to sleep aid in the world. It really is. Helen Merritt's on the list. Okay . All right. Inevitably, David and I miss some people. Oh . Uh hit us up. He didn't mention John Cena, which is kind of heartbreaking. No, he's not on the list . Pressbox Ringer at gmail dot com Yeah for any of your unknockable suggestions. Yeah, hit us up in immediately too. I'll get it we get immediately. This is a living list, a living document, if you will. Even though David's gonna make a cover with the people we just selected. Uh I'm Brian Curtis. He's David Shoemaker, Protection Magic by Isaiah Blakely, John Romer, and Ben Cruz, our pals, sitting in here with us today on this podcast. Thank you so much. Uh Ben . Coming up this week, Joel Anderson is gonna be holding this thing down on Thursday. He's got something special in store for you. Check out Joel. David, I'll see you next Tuesday with more lukewarm takes about the media. See you later .