Nipple Piercings and Nivea's Influence

This episode is brought you by Americ's Cook Oout cllassics, Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Meyer. This summer, we're celebrating two hundred and fifty years of American cookouts with all the classics. Heinz Kraft and Oscar Meyer. Rob, what's your ideal cookout scenario? First of all I want you on the ox. I trust you with that sacred responsibility to pick our music. I'm gonna to have to man the grill, and I'm going to need like a copious amount of condiments. I need every possible fixion m Well, make sure to top your burger with only the best Heinz Ketchup and Kraft singles. And you know, it's not a cookout without Heinz Ketchup and mustard. Different vibes, same ingredients. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Meyer. Shop at your local retailer. This summer, Fandu is the best place to bet on goals. Including equalizers. Uu. Yep betters. Every goal is worth more on Fandu So let there be bones. N customers get three hundred and fiftyteen bonus bets guaranteed when you get five dollars five for seven days. twenty one plus imp present and select dates. First online real money wager only minimum five dollar wager required for seven consecutive days. five doarars first deposit required. Bonus issued as n withdrawable bonus bets, which expiire seven days after receipt. restrictions applies, see full terms at fanool d. com slashportsbook. Gambling problem callall one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred my reset Hello, welcome back to the Pst TV podcast, weet, Joina Robins.' Robonhone. And believe it or not, we're here to once again talk about Cape Beer. They keep allowing us back into this building to do this. and I don't know why. Actually, we have not left since we were here for the Widow's Bay finale. If you did not catch it, we did do the Widows Bay F finale live, that was a fun time. You guys might want to check that out. Anything else We just say there there are plans to cover the final season of the Bear upcoming Yes. It will be Van Lehan and Charles Holmes who have been covering it for the last few seasons. should going to bring it home. So that is what you can look forward to. but we, meanwhile, in Savannah, Georgia. Yeah for the foreseeable. We couldn't bear to be locked into a pressure packed kitchen. We need this instead. We need the slow sweltering Boyle of Savannah, Georgia. If folks want to reach us and they have with their thoughts on Cape Far they reach us. They can always reach us Joe, as you know at prestige dV at sppotify. com. In particular, for your Cape fear related thoughts theories weird AI slop turned fan art. Think of a baby carrot at gmail. com Yeah. Don't send us your AI sluff fan art No byy that I mean, you have to make the slop and then actually draw something from the slop. Yeah, I would prefer them they not make the slop in the first place ' that ds the bottle of water, but like maybe find if there's slop You want to make Bannard of? It's a great point Episode four is called Pierced and we know why, It's written by Tera the fork dabbing into the fruit, I think is what what it's about. M be. Written by Tara Shiv Kamar and directed by Reid Morano. And as I mentioned before, Reid is a director's name that really caught my attention. She was she wass trained as a cinematographer before she became a director And she first popped on my radar when she directed the pilot of Hammaidsdale, or maybe all of that season of Hammaidsdale. I think she did the whole season. That first season of Hmay sale was like such a huge deal when it came out. It's a great season of television But she's the first woman in history to win both the Emmy and the DJA for directing a drama series in the same year for Handmaid's Tale. She also did cinematography on Frozen River, Killier Darlings and the sketon twwins, like, you know, great movies. hiring her She always has like very distinctive visual splashy style. and in this episode, we get like dramatically caned angles and like all this other stuff. So I would say the saturation cranked up to a million Oh yeah, the blues were blueing What did you think of this episode either visually or anything else? I'm having a great time. don't Again, I don't know week to week if this is any good. There are lines that we're laughing at for a variety of reasons. There are things that are happening on the show that are just bat shit insane. We had a great time watching it. It's so much fun. Yeah. And so whether that's the intended effect, I suspect it is one way or another sometimes, but I'm having a great time with it. Yeah, so welcome back to Trasher Peace Theatater. We are here to talk about Cape Far I also enjoyed watching this episode. Can I say this is a good show? I don't think so Can I say it's a great show? maybe, honestly, maybe for our summer purposes We will be bringing back the conspiracy board at the end of the episode that we introduced in last week's podcast episode. But throughout this discussion of the episode we will be adddding cards to the pile of what we will be pinning on the board There's so much every week. I know. And if we missed anything, press E toV at sppotify. com or think of a baby careare at gmail. com. All right, mail bag, first and foremost, we did get a report from a Real southerner, friend of the pod, Katie Rich. I do resent the implication that you're not a real. I just don't think T a Texas boy should be weighing in on a Savannah, Georgia accent. I think what we've proven as Texans is we can weigh in on whatever we goddamn well, please. And we will, whether you like it or not. That has a bad look on you U But Katie Rich, unpompted friend of the pod, listener of the pod, was like, Hey, do you want some accent checks for me and actual southerners? He said yes, please And she said Anna Bishnikov is nailing it. Okay. So shout out the Nbo baby Anna Brishnikov. Great job On the other NEPo Baby front. She said Kaate Winslet' son wobbles in and out but is good when it's there. I guess that's the British expertise. That's what she said I asked her what her gr on Amy Adams was. She said, Oh, very poor But it's kind of more that it seems to make her uncomfortable to use it. She's so weirdly muted. Patrick Wilson is definitely more comfortable with it. So that is the assessment so far. But I'd be curious to hear from other southerners what they think of the accent work on this show. I'm very interested We did get a great email from our listener, Tim, who went through and timestamped all of the like Hey, did you realize this show is set in Savannah moments of the first couple episodes? and I just w to read them through. It was honestly seeing them all together was frankly embarrassing. It was for the show So openingitles ofavannah Georgia episode one. Tim was like, cool Leopold's ice cream shirt, that's what Patrick Wilson is wearing at the Barbecue in episode one. Sure, obligatory Coastal Empire beer, subtle, if you know you know, things for locals, cool Variety of on location shots, podcast interaction, SGLP event, Nice to see, Cougar. Some thoughts on that. And then black coffee from Savannah Roaster. so odd. This is where it goes off the rails in my opinion, Tim says. I work at the Humane Society on Sally Mood Drive. Why or the Savannah bananas who give him who gave him drugs enough already. So Tim is tapped out Savannah expert, Tim is tapped out by the end of episode two, but I did request an ongoing running list from TM or anyone else of all of these savannah references that may be flying over heads. We got a SCAD location inside of this episode, but I'm curious what else we might be We have fully crossed the bridge too from like subtle regional specificity into we're just gonna name drop all these things for absolutely no reason in ways that real humans kind of don't really do in exactly this sort of way. It's so uncanny at this point. Yeah. You know what? there's a lot that's uncanny about this show. We got a ton of emails Let's go through a few. Oh, Ted, let us know that Wesley Strick, the screwiter of the ninety one film, played the ER doctor trying to reset Max Kitty's arm in the hospital. So that's a very cool fear verse cameo. In terms of like who else might show up from the fear verse, my favorite suggestion we got from our listeners was that Kelsey Grammer, who voiced Sideshow Bob in the Cape Far episode of the Simpsons. Yeah should show up and I'm like and like step on a rake or something, I think that would be really fun. L what do you think? Yeah, what would his role be? What do you want him to do in this show? I don't know, but he has to go like into the microphone.es without say. Maybe he could be a fellow inmate in a flashback somewhere. Oh, that'd be really fun. We got an email from our listener, Matt about, u The creator of this show, Nick Antoska, because I had like read some of his credits, but I missed this one. Matt said that he co created a brilliant show in Netflix called Brandew Cherry Flavor Have you seen this? I haven't, but it's one that's been on my list perpetually because I really like Rosa Salazar You were such a Rosa Salazar guy. I don't know how to take that but it's true. compliment. You know, for like Maddie's number one boy, you're gonna vibe with Rosa Salazar. It's a wicked little L lnchian series about Hollywood in the ninetyies with the magnetic Rosa Salazar, Catherine Keener, and Manny Dento, that's for me. Katherine Keeener's for all of us. Let's be real about this. It's a wild rout that incorporates witchcraft, sexual politics and the movie industry. I see echoes of it in Cape Fear with a lot of psychological terror cycles of revenge and light body horror. So some fun, you know, if people are like, I have I have not trash or pieced enough With Cape Far, perhaps brand new cherry flavor is for you. So fun advice from Matt. Thank you so much Um We got a lot of emails about cutting your tomato with arateded knife. Yeah, What was the verdict on that? Guess what? you were right. I didn't doubt you though. You didn. You were open minded aboutrated knife situation. But yes, onene should use a serrated knife and the only reason that Max Katady the tomato was because he was using a chef's knifees and not a serrated knife Please do report back. If you want to dabble with a serrated knife in your tomato slicing, I'd be curious to hear your report. If a nice knife company wants to send us this serrated tomato knife, we did get a listener who like sent us a link and I was like, but actually wasn't that expensive. Maybe we should just make Spotify buy a toato knife. My only problem with it is just in the realm of one utility kitchen tools, I mean, I just have too much stuff. You know, I can't have a knife that only cuts tomatoes. just for Madeline cookies. No comment. Okay, fair enough. On the drug front. We got a lot. like No one can agree on what it is exactly that Thomas microdosing. I believe we got no fewer than like eight different very confident assertions of like, oh, no, this is definitely ketamine. Oh, this is definitely microdosing LSD. Oh, this is definitely GHB. Yes. Th thoseose are the three main candidates is LSD, GHB, and ketamine. I will say that like Reesea's email about LSD was sort of the most compelling to me. because Reese was just like really neggging all of the other options Barring some bizarre, rare drug or completely inaccurate portrayal of some other drug the drug Tomas taking should one hundred percent be microdsing LSD Um, You don't microdose mushrooms in liquid form. GHB makes you feel super drunk, super fast, so it wouldn't be something he would be taking while waiting in his son's hospital room. The only other plausible drug would be ketamine, but I don't believe you would take it that way either. My guess is that at some point, it will get swished out for something, making that mind control drug you meant maybe that mind control drug you mentioned or maybe macro dose of LSD to make him freak out And then Katie was like For lish your Kitty, it's definitely kind of be. Story' still out, but LSD is sort of like an interesting You know. All interesting theories, I feel more confident than ever in our uncertainty of what this drug is. Correct. I just don't think it's THC. That's like some other people were like, it's just THD. I was like, I don't think that's what's happening. I don't think so either. I did find the experience of reading these emos to be highly educational. I learned about some drugs I've never heard of before. So you know, it' an it's really a journey for all of. What is Kid fear, if not an educational program? Tuly. A about the perils of living in Savannah, Georgia and interacting with a lot of animals. Okay. fun fact from our listenn, Jessica Trish who shows up with Ethan Embry in the previous episode at the pool is played by Sonny Mabreay, I guess how you pronounce her name, which is Ethan Ember's real wife They married for the first time in two thousand five, divorced in twenty twelve, and then got remarried in twenty fifteen. So a Hollywood love story. Hollywood love story and mirrors the chaotic energy that they have on the show. I really love it. Anything else. We took an interesting email from our listener Nick, who was talking about the way in which Max Katady is presented in this show versus the nineties version, the sixties version about specifically sort of like sexual assault as Max Katie's crime in the previous two iterations U but not, you know, it's just merely murder, you know, in this iteration, but removing the sexual assault element What does that do to the story And you know, we've already talked about the fact that like there's no doubt in our minds when're watching the previous versions that Max Katie did what he was convicted for He definitely did it, even if Nick Nolty's character the ninetiess version, like buried some evidence, but like he definitely did it Here we're meant to, as you said from the jump, sort of like, question what's going on? I still don't have any questions about that, but like the show wants us to ask that question for sure. I have questions about the specifics. Clearly, this is a menacing, terrifying man. who is What did he do to get that watch off that car salesman? Nothing good. Yeah. Yeah, he's threatening lots of people at this point, not just the Bodens, right going around messing with guys like the guy at the car dealership, women like the one who came up and like tried to come onto him while he was having his ice cream cone. It's like There is a level of terror to him that transcends this like personal fixation. Anyone who gets in his way or tells him no of some kind or irritates him.. He feels justified in menacing them in some way or another to varying degrees. Very chill stuff. But what is 's seeing Anna in this episode, if not some kind of sexual assault, I will say. So I don't think it's entirely absent from this show. It's a forced moment Yeah. It's incredibly uncomfortable actors are also playing it in such a fascinating way. where it's there is There's a familiarity to what is happening, even if it is unwelcome and aggressive. Yes. Absolutely. Last but not least, I think before we go into sort of like our scene by scene is that Matt, who is not watching the show, but listening to the podcast, shout out you sickos out there. You're very special to us. Just the realest ones, honestly, to go along for an audio only journey for a show you're not watching. We did get a lot of emails from people saying you didn't remark upon the fact that Nveya's name is heavens Bed backwards And you know what? we didn't and we should have because that's exactly the kind of show we're watching here.ight. Let's lower the bar as far as what we want to talk about on this pod. Absolutely. But Matt said, one thing that occurred to me listening to you all is if there's a character Angel X slash Novea, which is obviously heaven backwards. and a drug that might be called Devil's breath Is there any chance that Katie having a bunch of tattoos of eyes based on your description is somehow reference to the old, quote, biblically accurate angel description of Ezekiel quote, their entire bodies, including their backs, their hands and their wings were completely full of eyes as were their four wheels. So I don't, you know, we're going to talk about the we get a more specific information about what religion it is that Max and perhaps some other people in this show are practicing will talk about Centeria notot on an expert level by any means, but we'll we' that a little later on. We don't. we don't a't got no crystal ball. But like These religious like heaven, devil's breath, all of that sort of stuff, that sort of associations Do you have any thoughts on they would be here. I mean, so much of it is so muddled at this point in terms of how they're being wielded, what they mean. I'm not even sure the show will ever have a good wrangling grasp of it. But I do think it also feeds into like that sort of description and the mirroring of Max Katie's visible like tattoos with the depiction of an angel specifically is a really evocative idea of Kim is an avenging angel if nothing else, right? This is somebody who clearly has been wronged in a way. We don't know the how or why yet. att least he is under the impression that he has been And so like how worthy is that justice? What is his end game and all of this? I found myself asking that a lot as he was kind of navigating these situations with Anna of, like What does he want? Does he just want to have the we're not so different you and I sort of confrontation. Is it a means of revenge? Is he trying to ruin her professional life or personal life or both What is he after exactly do he think? Absolute ruination. Yeah. I think. he's trying to like in this episode, he compromises her. right? The fact that she goes to him for help pututs her in like so vulnerable You know, like he's in there. he gets a confession from this guy that she needs by whatever means necessary And so yeah, dragging her down to his level were're not so different, you and I, but also like he recorded that What else did he record? You know what I mean? And so like what does he what leverage does he have on her now? He's just going around gathering leverage on people or compromising them in one way or another. And that's really scary. And it's scary how dumb the boodens are that they keep just like you know, willillingly, gleefully skipping into like random pop up piercing, you know houses or whatever, whatever the case may be They're just they're so dumb D dumb skunks. getting drowned in a pool. It's part of what makes it trasterpiece. You know? L you have to have characters this is straight horror, but they are behaving like characters in a horrorvie. skunk behavor. I don't mean to insult skunks, but for the metaphor. We already covered this skunks are intelligent and I won't have you dragging the reputation through the mud on this show. Bunnies, like, what are they? They're dumb animal of prey some kind. Bunnies do seem pretty dumb. Okay. Um So let's start where the show starts, which is openping on Max performing a ceremony And this is where we go into Centuro watchatch, right? So we get language later that makes it like oververtly clearar that we're talking about Santora here. and we have seen evidence, you know, the same you know objects that he's using in his ceremonial process here is what we saw in the Boden household related to Zach, is what we saw in Amy's house when I don't know if you recall, but she shot herself in the head twice. Tice. I can't unrecall that. So here's what I listener Melody said before presumably she saw this episode I'm thinking it ats Centoria, similar to some other things that originate in Africa, but mays way to central and Latin Amera, clues that stand out to be pomegranate seeds are symbolic in their religious practice, ritual animal sacrifice and cutting off parts of the animal a toe, perhaps. is a form of spiritual practice and they believe that they can derive power from eating parts of the slaughtered animal Can I interest you in a baby carrot, perhaps The evil eye in Centura represents an envy as a curse aside from the tattoos. Katie makes mention of the Bowen's wealth and enviable as enviable often. And like Katie, they often wear white linens during their ceremonies and their other sacred color is blue. So that's We are not pretending to be experts in any case. this is what Mlody sent to us. If you have other more specific information that you would like to send to us, I always love to learn. learn from people. So press you should be at sppotify. com. But you know, we get mention of like Oishia, Santtero, Shango, which is you know, getting your crown, Max Ment Menton Sango is this u God of the Spirit that is that he claims or is claimed to him of fire, thunder, lightning, virility, dance, drumming strength and justice in the Yuba religion in Centria. So Um Is this interesting to you? What do you think? Ver? I think well, especially because we have sort of two tracks working here, right? There is the actual practicing that Mac seems to be doing in this cold open, for example, right muttering words in Spanish, like we'll see kind of what the implications are of I would say is practicing some sort of like twisted version of Santoria, right? Like Like wlding it in a way that is clearly malicious and channeling this energy in a way that is untowred. We were talking to our producer dov who knows much more about this than we do. and we were sort of coming to this conclusion that If the show is presenting Max Katie as a like rightighteous and true practitioners Senturia That is like I would be shocked frank. That and problematic. If they're like he's taken this, you know, practice in this faith and twisted it to his you know, his means, his purposes, like that's sort of more what I think is going on. So I don't think like what he's doing should be seen as indicative of a representative of of course not other practitioners of this particular. But So there's however he's actually practicing it and whatever he may be intending with all that. And then there's what he uses it for in this conversation with Smiley and really for Anna's benefit, I would say, of the plausible deniability of I'm going to say that we are of this similar like cultural background so that I can come with you And you don't have to ask too many questions up frront about what I'm gonna to do. Sure. And then as soon as you leave the room, I'm really just not gonna even say what happened in there, but I have this recording, this temptation to dangle in front of you by like ultimately, other than maybe the affliction of justice, there's really nothing about what happens with smmileing and the snakes that has anything to do with Santerie or faith whatsoever, I wouldn't say. Just information for us, the viewer, more than anything else. And I do and information that like you know, he said that this guy smmiley was at Tarwater Prison with him. And so, you know, is this where Max because the flashbight said we got to Max's a childhood you know, it's like a giant crucifix on the side of the river and a sort of like baptism sort of imagery. So I think that was the faith that was practiced by his family growing up. Yeah his dad. And so We already put religious trauma on the board. So this idea of like being a religion into abuse, which was already existed in his childhood, is that what he then did with a practice that he might have encountered when he was at Tarwater U with with this other guy, you know? Definitely could be and the toes are paying the price. So we're adding Santoria to the board. Absolutely. Do you want to talk about snake stuff now? Let's talk about all the snake stuff. Here's my question for you as far as smileing goes How many snakes are too many snakes Uh, so we had snakes growing up in our like classrooms corn snake. Okay. Like one tank, several corn snakes inside I think Never more than three snakes in one classroom. Okay That's enough. I think three is a good number. I did have a friend who had like a whole wall of like snake terrariums. but I was deeply uncomfortable in that room. It's just a lot. I think if you Look, live your life. If you wantan to have a bunch of snakes. Yeah I can't say I support you, but I support your choice this point. Some people are cat people.. Some people are snake people. I just can't wrap my head around the kind of pet having where you have to make a pass or the snake might wrap itself around your head. Well, obviously that's part of it, but more so that I have to go like check every terrarium to make sure one of them has not escaped in the night How do you feel about the fact that we are Euphoria back in snake territory and severed Toes's territory. Euphoria iss gonna toes snakes. likeike this is our personal vision board. I didn't want to manifest it, but apparently we did. I'm pretty upset. So we're adding Smiley Pitt. Do you think he's going to come back? Smiley Pitt's going to be added to the board Thank you this is probably the last we see of him, right? Could be, but I'm putting him on the board I Snake stuff Deinitely going on the board. There's so much snakes to. Max is very like cozy with this char snakes. and then RIP, that one snake. Yeah Our producer, Kai was like, there's enough dead stuff on the board. So we're adding this dead snake to the board. I was unclear personally if this was Rose his one named snake. Yeah, you really wanted to make sure we got the identity of the snake, right? I just think it's in like the Ebt economy of characters that like if you're gonna bring something up, they have to like pay off in a certain way. So it's like the fact that one snake is named, wouldn't it stand to reason that that's the one that Max stabs through the head RP Rse. Is that the titular piercing? do you think? Honestly lots of piercings abound. Piercingings everywhere. All right Come. course belongs to a country club, so I'm adding the country club list. Is it a country club? Yeah, Or is it just like a memberss only club? And is there a difference? What's the difference What's the meaningful difference? I'm gonna to say not much, but I bet if you're a member of a country cllub or a member's only club, subtle but meaningful. Like what is the difference? Well, for one, I think country Cub involves sports But also to have a golf course attached But this is that golf or tennis courts. Okay. One of the two, or at least at least a pool. Do you think there isn't a golf course like right outside the window there? Unclear. Okay. So you think it's like a gentleman's club? I think it could be a gentleman's club. Interesting. could be a fancy ellk lodge, you know? Who is to say? I definitely think Tom belongs to a country club. He's got the five. Okay, excellent. Country club, we're adding it to the list, No more club quibbling here Um Max is here. He's joined Tom's countountry Club. or gentleman's glove as you prefer This seems to be just like a first foray into a longer seduction attempt because that's what Max is doing, right? He's trying to be like, Yeahah, you don't have to be afraid of me And if you aren't afraid of me I'm gonna menace you. That's what he did with Ray. Do you feel like he was menacing Tommy? I thought so wasing T me M. I mean you don't go to a dad and say, hey, your son really needs a dad. You are the father, obviously. Like nothing about this is seduction. It feels much more menacing. I don't know, let me buy you a drink at your country club. See, that's in the country club world. Oh, you know,' he just like put his dick on the table. Do you know about country cllub culture? Okay let me tell you, we're all making up as we go But I'm saying and like he comes in with this like very aggressive, I would say like overbearing macho sort of energy. Are you from country club people? No. Okay. But you're a tenn guy, Do you feel like that? do but I'm a public court tennis player. Come on It's honestly very different. donon't even get started Okay, let's go back you knowing the nuances of the social ins and outs of the country. I just read it much more as What's happening with Anna, there is a type of seduction, right, A temptation of I'm going to dangle bait on a hook forah of this piece of evidence you so desperately need This was not that. And I think some of it is Tom is not as open to Max's advances and persuasion so far. He's like very repulsed by it. This whole interaction on his side, super cold, super removed. I'm getting out of here as soon as I possibly can. Yeah Do not want any part of it. I did see, you know, like Max is constantly performing inside of this episode, evenven when he's like when he was menacing that guy at the dealership. It was with a smile on his face. like he's still performing in some way. But when he started talking about his kid That felt real to me. Kind of It's so interesting because Javier Bardem is so full of menace and at times so full of shit. I don't mean it feels like earnest like I felt for him. Yeah. It just felt like This is a mania, an obsession of his. I could see. Why was that sonogram photo on the on the like ceremonial, you know Yeah. s it was thing yeah at the beginning. It was sonagram photo the illustration of the AI slop that supposedly came from Zack Cowry shells Plantains or bananas could be other one. Yeah. Was there anything else involved in that little like alltar setup? I don't know, but we are adding the AIot drawing. Your rendering of Zack renderingot drawing is going on the board for sure. Got to U Anthing else you want to say about this Tom and Max interaction I love these two in isolation too. I hope we get much more of this. I hope it's not just Max and Anna. Oh no. I'm as interested in this dynamic wild. Let's go. Oh, I will say one thing about the drawing. I know we're kind of shifted off of like this is Max's unborn son who is being drawn. Yeah, AI slop Adam. You want to You want to tell the folks What got the biggest laugh while we were watching this episode? because I think it might have been that. I think it might have been that drawing. The drawing is It's tough. The hairline is tough. There's a lot happening. I say this not uncharitably having acknowledged all of those things. If you want to adjust the bangs just so on that drawing, if you want to bring a couple of lines in Does it not look like Natalie Oh wow, look at you. Sad himself, Atic himself. I'm just saying a couple of quick alterations and we've been debating since the first episode like is Natalie Okayax Katie's biological daughter. To go back to An show re're covering or have been covering. You're saying that Widows Bay Island does not look like a hand. That's great. You're saying that A I slft drawing of Adam looks like Natalie. From a certain point of view.. All right, Juliet Lewis and Amy Adams, here we U first of all, Rob I know you don't like Halloween, but would you reconsider perhaps dressing up in a green rain slicker and a face mask. I would say, why wait for Halloween? Why are we doing this for the season finale? I think' I'm like full up on costumes with all the vampire shit I'm doing on House of Ar. That's your own d. But if you want tona get a blonde wig and a green rain slicker and a face mask, I will consider it. I think you should consider. Just know that if I do those things and we do a podcast with me wearing them, I will be performing in a like breathy lillting, creepy voice the entire time. That's not so different from your current voice Okay, listen, you're welcome stuff Fingers in the window is a real move, right? Anna cracks the window to be like I wouldn't do that. If I saw Juliette Lewis princing in the street, I talked straight through the window. orr you driving off? I'm driving off And if she's in front of me, I will keep driving in That's actually distinctly not true. The place I lived before LA, there were just wild turkeys on the road all the time and they would just get in front of your car and sometimes I would just sit there because I'm like I'm not going to menace the turkey. They're scary. So I would just wait for them to like gobble on and they would just take their time. I feel very confident that this is the only podcast where you will hear Juliette Lewis compared to awild. 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Call one eight hundred five two six seven seven three six to learn more. or visit trmphiaradio. com This episode is brought to by Netflix. The T mobile homeome runun derbies right around the corner might be one of the best showcases of pure power and off sports baseballs Biggest sluggers along with some legendary Announcers, Poohos, Rizo, Bs, Sabbathia L Duncin Yeah Hunter Pence, Matt Fast Kirzian, a whole bunch of people. And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact You swing History. I'm interested this is who Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Park In Philly, watch the T moobile Home rununs D every live on Netflix Monday, july thirteenth at eight PM Eastern five PM Pacific Heat up your fourourth of July at the Home Depot with our wide variety of grills under three hundred dollars and make every gathering one to remember. Give your outdoor space a glow up. Whatever your budget is, with savings on seasonal plants starting at five dollars. With the grill fired up and your backyard set to perfection, you'll be able to invite friends and family over to kick off the party Start celebrating with low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot. Prices may vary by storic exes of pricey Home Depot com sl priceatch for details Turkey I lister Larry is theory about who Juliette Lewis might be play, right Juliette Lewis is playing his Max Kitty's half sister, I have to believe. knows about his dog cage childhood and his and is the right age Katie said his father had another family when Katie joined them at thirteen And as Iion Larry wrote another email about this, as I mentioned before, there was a young woman watching on the shore during the baptism. So how do you feel about this as like a half sister figure. I'm compelled I think some of it if we want to tie in M seen Katie. Yeah M seen would be very funny. But if we want to tie in Anna and Juliette Lewis' encounter later in this episode where she's talking about the quote unquote horrors that she has tried to warn off of being in Max's orbit. Yeah. Clearly that is meant to be intimidating. It's meant to be like scary to watch and her framing and the way she's talking about it I also wonder if it is more this is a damaged person trying to make a genuine effort of concern in her way. That's how I read it. The idea that she knows Max well enough to try to warn these women away from him, and she's attempting to do that with Anna, but in a way that comes on quite strong But also like I think, Like whatever if she says half sister or not The implication to me is that this woman quote was made a horror by like alsoso whatever he did psychologically sexually to Amy and Melissa. did Well that's the question, right? Is she in the line of these other women who have been rantically entangled? W way is she more of a half sister? The way that she's sort of like, or both I mean, this is the show where it would be both. Who am I kidding? I already have an inccess card for another pair of characters on this show. There are also mayabbe half siblings. so yeah. Cycles repeat She was sort of like the way she was dancing in her underwear to the butth hole surfers on that video did not strike me as trly sisterly. so That's all I' say about. They have a complicated relationship, clearly, whatever it is. Let's just wrap up the Juliette Lewis of it all. Given that there was a kiss between Max and Anna an uncomfortable kiss, we are adding that kiss to the board. Gotta do it She shows up and she says I've saw you with him And she has a video camera So to me, that says there is now video evidence of Max and Anna kissing. Yes, that without the context of him like kind of forcing himself on her If someone else sees it, again, that puts Anna in a compromising. Eespecially at a distance. Yeah. like from that remove where you don't have all the information could definitely be wielded against her or the Boddens in whatever kind of way. R I think it's kind of an under underlining thing throughout this episode, this idea of not only you could be watched at any time, but you could be recorded at any time. Yeah, that that sort of tech paranoia. The tech paranoia And it comes through with smmiley and the idea of like a one party consent audio state. Yeah. Gotta know your rights. Yeah. It comes through with the car dealership where that whole encounter is being recorded, added again, added slight remove. So who's to say what it is or what it looks like ression at a distance could that might be the kind of thing that ultimately works against Max Kadyie, right? As he has this smiling image to so many different people. here he is kind of intimidating this guy and being right in his face in a way that is clearly a confrontation. That idea of like you could always be watched inside your home, own home or anywhere is something to think about. In this case, not only can you be watched, but then you can be tastefully reflected through like, I love the glare of both the sun and the giant ass light that Julet Lewis has attached to her camcorder Again, just kind have a great shot. keepeeping us like at a slight back fooot in terms of ever being able to read her face or impressions or what she indicates at any time. We cut from this and this is like one of several visual flourishes that I quite enjoyed in this episode. We cut from this to Natalie stabbing a piece of fruit at breakfast, which will then of course come back during the nipple piercing scene. But I just like loved that image of like the juicy red strawberry getting, you know there I'm putting Leernner's permit on the on the board. Natalie is very stressed out that she does not have a driver's license. Yes. So I'm putting L learnner's permit. Do you think we're going gonna get a scene later this season where she needs to drive like Tom's been shot and she needs to drive to the hospital, but she's like, no, I can't. I don't yet have my license. Well does it I don't know the does it count as having super a licensed supervised driver if they're like passed out and gunshot in the back seat of the car or something like that? You know in Georgia, probablyably. Yeah. I don't know what theules in Georia fair By way, California is a two party consent recording state. I do Absolutely. So don't I don't know all the one party can's it seems like everywhere should be a two party consent recording st. I'm gonna to be honest, it's mostly the ones you'd expect. Okay,ough tough for Georgia. That's a real southern around southernner crime for me. it's just the truth Uh Peanut butter is here, breakfast, Something really struck me about this breakfast scen, not just that like, that Natalie calls Toma Cook. likeike she does drugs one time and she is like Ready to be a bad seed. Like she is ready Did you take this as a proper Shehekov's cook slash cook shadowing of just shadowing. everything that is in the air as far as what her actual parentage may be. I'm adding cook shadowing Were you just mad that I coined Tatropies and you wanted to put c shadowing in there? J I'm never mad at your brilliance, you know. I simply want to follow you into the depth. Okay, great. cu shhadowing. It's interesteresting because that is that is our theory. Well, no, not really because she would have been cooking Paul Not Tom. But Tom is still, I mean, he's even worse, the second cuck. Oh the step cuck. the kucku stuff up He is kind of the cuck who stepped up. Shack to Tom doing an actual parenting in this episode. He's trying. He really is. I wouldn't say it's always successful. I wouldn't say everything he does is perfect, but He's making an honest good m He's like Golly G Williers. We went to an art show and I think it's going well with Zach. That was just like one of like, hey, buddy, if you want to go this is great. This is really neat. Reminds me a lot of some dads, I know. We're just sort of like, I love this art show stuff you're interested in. Also all the voice to text with him is it makes me laugh every time. The thing that really struck me about that breakfast scene though U is Ray being like such a member of the family? Yeah. L he's in the kitchen making coffee making the good coffee. He's like familiar Savannah cooffee Rusters shout out. He's like familiar with Natalie. you know, like he's just like friends with all. He's not just like Anna's coworker.es. He's like embedded in the family and I just think that that's that's a difference This archetype of this role that we've seen in previous iterations of story, a more incorporated. Well, this has been there from the very beginning, right? Like he was over there for the barbecue to open up as one. L he is fully integrated Yeah yeah. I just think there's a difference between being invited for a barbecue and like it's straight up making coffee in someone else's kitchen. That's a degree of intimacy that is hard to come back. How many people in your life are you familiar enough with who like you're not related to they could just wander in and make coffee in your kitchen and you wouldn't really bad it enough I think literally like one person Yeah, honestly. How exclusive lists. Probably fewer. Yeah. It would be very weird for somebody to do that. Kion is your sanctuary. So it's a different thing for you, I think. Zack in therapy So be it We get more of the Tom talalkingheads flashback, We get more information That he has told everyone that his brother died in a car accident when clearly his brother like hung himself. At least told his kids that Yeah, I don't know if what anonym. Yeah, that would be the variable. Talking headads poster is there and then the thing that you thought was hum manan is very close. Oh C of the Barbarary Yeah Very close Tom fires therapist because it seems to me that Tom fires therapist because he's like I don't want to talk about this thing. I'm in deep denial about this thing that happened to me. Of course. That's what he's like, getet out of here likeike not anything to do with Zach where he's like Zach doesn't trust you. Zach doesn't take you. I mean, it's all it's all A ruse. Yeah. Can I stand up for my guy Tom for one second though? Yeah, your guy Tom She needs to be in therapy to talk about this stuff. Yeah. I think the therapist suggesting we are going to loop in your lifelong deep seated family trauma into your son's much more recent guilt ridden selfie leaking trauma and like Why are we entangling these things when these people both need dedicated individual care And this is where we got an emo from our listener, Nicole, where I really agree. I' not we're not parents, but I agree with Nicole who says, as a parent If my daughter bit off her toe and swallowed it After the ER run, she would have immediately been in the best psychiatric care Savannah had to offer, there would be no trip home No Savannah coffee roaster. No. I would have taken at least a week off work My life would stop And I would tell my boss what's going on so she could have a normal human reaction and reinforce any other choices U Every time I see Zack do something, text weird people, walk around his house, shake hands with Max Katy, exist without help. I am taken out of the story and just made super angry. And I agree. We are adding a segment to this podcast of like too dumb to live. and I don't think this is the thing but like Comedy and are not only like questionable pairs to begin with, but like Their behavior around Zach is I can't understand inccomprehensible. That is the word incomprehensible. Your kid biting off their toe, as the email alludes to, would be the only thing you think and talk about for a long time. Like I get that Anna Tom, I like, you know, because Tom is like a shittier lawyer, what it like a like notot a less altuistic lawyer. So Tom is the one who seems to be like taking more time off work. Yeah, even though Lexi's coming over and they're microdosing drugs while Zach is upstairs. It's kind of off work. But I understand that Anna is like, I have an important job, but I'm with Natalie where I'm just sort of like, fuck you dude. L take some time off work. Be with your family right now. I mean, Natalie is noticing if no one else is that, you know, Anna's following through on a lot of things she says she's going to do. All right, sports corner, you wanted to linger with Natalie at. I really like what you wantan to say? I mean Many things. One, this whole scene is very strange as far as Nveya creeping up behind the goal Having a full on conversation, nobody seems to notice her Natalie just walks off. no one seems to notice. Are you positing Nivea is not real? I'm not, but like the show almost shoots it that way as if she's a figment of Natalie's imagination. Maybe that's kind of like the subtext, but not the literal. Like she's not a ghost Yeah Uh, that said I think Natalie being a goalie too me is like a very specific character, be a goalkeeper if you prefer. I do veryer true to her character as I understand it. And I would say specifically the idea that like a goalie are you paning the world? You're not a soccer guy. I'm not. Okay. But I'm a sportsman. Okay. What do you know about goalie? Well, I think the role of a goalie is similar to many in many different industries and walks of life where it's like if you're doing that job well,, no one really notices or talks about it unless you make the exceptional save Okay But the one time you fuck up, the Calies of the world are like, what's your problem? all fingers are pointed at you, this like pressure packed perfectionist position where you get really, very little praise for the day to day of what you do. Yeah. That feels true to everything else we're hearing about Natalie. I agree. I really agree. I'd be curious what you know, we know that Bill Simmons is watching and enjoying this show I'll be curious see if we get any text about the soccer play becauseuse I remember heing a lot of notes about yellow jackets and like how the You know The young women were play soccer on that show. So I'll be curious what you think. I mean, she is clarified here more spiritually Meghan Rapino than actually Meghan Rapino. Yeah, tough. It's okay. Maybe she had those shoes that her grandfather tried to give her Yeah, she should would have done a better job. Well's not it's not even a quality thing. It's just a positional issue. you know's true That's true. Okay. Tom and Zach. let's go fishing. let's go to the art show. Yeah. let's take a dip in the pool. Hey. Where's your toe? Patrick Wilson. Emmy. I ate it again. Amy. Em Emmy for Patilon Where's your tongue? I really don't think there was a single Patrick Wilson moment in this episode, line or reaction shot that I did not have like a physical response to. The man is completely positive. I want to be very clear about that I love him on this show. Hey, where's your toe? U J from to cararpace and DiM. Joey Anders, who plays Zach I thought he was really good in that art show scene when Beth, the mom, was really laying into him in a way that like seemed unnecessary. I like, No, I'm not defending it. I get it. I'm not defending. But when Tom's like Beth we're leaving, Yes. like let Tom take his son away and just de escalate. She's escalating. let's de escalate. That's what I would say. I think if you're the parent of somebody who has been wronged in a profound and at that point like social life altering way, if not life altering way. You get a little defensive, you know? But I don't think this is Beth's first rodeo at like telling exact that he's a piece of shit. And let me tell you, it's not her last. Like That woman has not said everything she has to say B Beth, I'm trying to hand. All of doesn't even know about the time. Here's the thing. If this were a neutral situation, they're not defending what Zach did obviously with this. You've been doing that off mic for weeks. You've say You've been saying that Sophia really had it coming. It's like I just thought it was very weird from you, Joe Really, I'm very are you say? If this were a neutral situation, they'd sa all at the grocery store. Yeah, they turned the aisle into the cereal and they're like, oh my go. here we are. He did follow her to the art show. He stalked her to the art show. No, that's fair. He had the brilliant idea. was think Tom saying Beth were leaving. I want the interaction to be over. I don't want to continue the interaction with this like clearly troubled child. Maybe if I'm Beth, I'm like, hey, why isn't he in therapy literally right now? Like you know, something like that. But you're a bad person and you should marinate in your guilt forever. Its lookook, it's not the most constructive thing to say to a child I don't think her role in here is like as a parent of the community. It says a parent of her own daughter You need help. You're a bad parent, get him help. Why isn't he M I mean, he deserves to be too. Maybe. Beth, will'll leave And then we get the the pool scene. So we have this like I may go stick my head in the oven, which triggers Tom again to think of his brother. We see him sort of hit himself in the face, which we already saw Zach do earlier this season and Tom stop it and be like, hey, don't hate yourself. But this is something he learned from Tom on this is something like Tom does to sort of snap him like when he's not microdosing,, I guess he's like slapping himself out of of these moments of flashback or whatever And then we get the pool moment. Did you have a moment where you were like You know, Zach is trying to end his life in the pool. like how did you react to that? I thought it would probably be Bait and Switch. Yeah. It's just too early in the season for stuff like that. And really, I think the importance of so many of these scenes is establishing Tom as the boiling kettle character, right? Like Zack, we're showing everything he's going through. He's having a really hard time processing what he's done and what he's done to hurt Sophie among other people even using his therapy as a chance to turn and look at Tom and say like, you got a lot of stuff you need to work out. You're not talking to anybody about. you're lying about actively. and even his hisis advice to Zach in this moment after he dives in the pool is I thought about the man I wanted to be in over time I became him. Exactly. That sounds so much to me. L I I created an artifice and I have crawled inside it and I am pretending to be that person, but I am not actually that person. Like what I wrote down is like what is lurking underneath for Tom. R right? So like what when a Max Katie or someone else chips away when you know know, the veneer of success and happy home and nuclear family and all this sort of stuff is is what this show is is what the story of Cape Fear has always been about. How do we unearth the rot underneath this sort of like ideals idealized American dream. So like in the nineties version, we just like learn more and more about Nick Nulty's character as it goes on or the ways in which Jilliette Lewis' character is not being supervised and all this other stuff like that. And so here it's like, what lies are responsible for propping up this inc extremely affluent white you know, family in Savannah, Georgia. And the ways that they're kind of self destructed within those lies, right? Every what Tom is hiding his own past trauma with his brother and his inability to be open about it is what leads him to think that his own son might be suicidal. that leads him to dive into that pool to save him In reality, Zach is trying to do the thing his therapist told him to do, which is like activate this divevery reflex. It's like a very real thing in terms of quieting the anxiety in your head and drowning it out with like physiological response of breathing, right? You are streamlining everything that's going on inside you So he tried to do the thing as therapist said interrupt him because of his own shit. And that is like a straight line from there to him reaching out to Angel X at the end of this episode because he needs relief from somewhere and he can't get it in his own home anymore. I guess, but like it's also that came directly from Sophia texting. Well sure. But you're like if he had more time and dive therapy, he would have been able to handle that better. I think everything he is being shown in his own home is like, even when you try to take care of yourself and do the things your therapist says, it's not gonna to work. Your family won't allow it The atmosphere in this place is inhospitable to it. Stifling. All right. I forgot to add some things to the board. Conan the Barbarian is definitely going on the board. love him pool therapy You wantan to make this dive therapy or pool therap. Let's pool therapy. Pull thepy is going on the board U nipple piercing Do you want to talk about the nipple piercings? Not really. I mean we went straight from soccer into everything else. This is a significant part of this episode and it was a lot.. fun What do you want to say about it though? I don't know what to say. I just think everything that's happening with Nat and Nevee in this episode is so much rooted in the idea of like how far Can not just be pushed at this point ast It's it's far and it's fast and But like speaking of like what's lurking underneath for like, you know, for Tom to say I've crafted this persona and that I became that person dipped in handsome like, you know, successful lawyer for Natalie. as Nvea sort of deconstructed last week, you know, it's like, the currency of buying your security with perfect grades, college applications, playing soccer, all these things. It makes sense that for a younger person that sheen of perfection would crack faster. Yes It really does seem like though it was like one party pushed her right over the edge. But here we are. we're in nipple picing territory. We're in npp piercing territory. I think there is part of Nat's character who, yeah, by her background alone is just Very gullable. R puppies and candy in this unmarked van level gullible. Like pop up piercing. She is susceptible in a Ram shockle house. She's just like going along with this stuff in a way that I think makes sense for who she is and where she's been I also am fascinated by Nivevea's role in the story for both kids where she has Wed her way into both of their lives. as the pressure release for them. right? This idea that after, I mean, we probably also need to talk about Breaking into Nat's crrush's house and dressing in her clothes to have sex in her bed Wifi jammer. Yeah The man has a Wi Fi jammer that can deactivate Home security systems. Can't imagine where that would be useful. Yeah. So what home security systems have we seen glitching so far on the show? Got it. Drug vision. When Nat's on the bed and she's like, you look pretty in my crush's clothing. Like it gets all likeirl heads look so pretty. Drug vision like refracted, you know sort of thing. this is post being blown in her mouth too. So who knows what was going on What was in that? Yeah, we get the blowing of the smoke and then the blowing of the dust powder later And if it is this drug, this what deevil's breath, it makes sure it makes sense that it would come in these like exhalation forms Inest Putting it on the board Inest It simply demands to. Natalie is Max Katie's daughter, which is our strong suspicion And as we learned by the end of the episode, Nvea is Max Katie's daughter then, uh this, you know, Young for Natalie because like It's not good You know, she's like connecting with someone, It's a bad choice, but like she's connecting with someone after being rejected by her friend who was also her crush after feeling ostracized and she like found someone to have this like and she's like, I always get anxious with other people. like you it's quiet. She's being manipulated and it's probably her half sister. you know what? That's a cautionary tale, kids Is it No. Do we need to be on the lookout for that? I don't know. No, but I do think there are the literal drugs, which clearly have an influence. And then there is sort of the drug of this sort of like pressure release for these kids who are wound up so tight in part because they are in a house that is a web of lies in ways that they both understand and don't Well Zach iss more complicated though, because he was just like sort of already a hot mess before all of this started. But it's like again, how do kids become a hot mess? I think there's lots of organic ways that could happen. How long have they been in contact? H and Angel X? Yeah. did that start after he lost all of his friends in the Soopfia incident or did that happen as part of in the first place I mean, I guess it could have been a motivating factor. And we do get Zack trying to insist like, I'm not this person. You don't know the full story kind of stuff with Sophia She understandably does not want to hear any of it. No. So maybe there is another shoe to drop as far as that initiating action. To go back to you implying that I am siting with Zack over Sophia, I will just say this. Sophia is allowed to say anything she wants to say. Like I have no objection of her being like, I unblocked your number just to tell you what a piece of shit you are. That I'm like totally on board with. It's the adult woman that I was just sort of like, can we have? The adult woman is her mom U All right, what haven't we talked about that we want to talk about? Okay, so when Max is talking to Ray and Anna about helping with Siley, he says this a very important thing, right It's not enough to persuade you have to come And so this idea of compulsion, whether it's like drug assisted Yeah, when we watched Amy. In the first episode shhoot herself in the head twice It certainly seemed upon the second time that she was compelled over the phone to do something. Yes. So what other forms can these compulsions If Max is trying to persuade the car dealer to give him, you know, sell him the car and be cool and calm down But then you just like comp what what does compulsion mean for him? Violence? I think in the case of how do I get this watch, it's violence. Yeah, rightight? That's not I'm gonna to blow drugs in your face and slowly convince you, but I think There are clearly a lot of ways that someone like Max Katady can be persuasive and someone like Nveya can be persuasive. The most interesting ones to me are the ones that play with this germ of an idea that's already there. R Like Nevea, even without the drugs plants the seed of you're the perfect dadler who isn't allowed to do anything wrong and then just kind of keeps feeding that idea until it becomes something that may be under the influence of a substance becomes more easily manipulatable. Yeah, if there is this, I mean, like it's wild to me that this drug apparently exists in the world, but we've also got like several other emails about it. So like if this drug exists that is makes people sort of vulnerable to suggestion I mean, that's scary to me that exists. But also like when you go back to that party scene, You know, she gets her high and then sheah. she is like sort of feeding her these ideas like almost like a hypnotic suggestion s of thing. like they're not your real family, all these other things. So upsetting Guess what? The show Oh we should note Neva does bust out the knife in Kalie's house. Yeah Yeah, I meant add that to Pal. We don't have a card for it yet, but yeah, she is so ready killed Hally's father for no reason. She is eager to do that So And Natalie is too googoo eyed slash distracted to realize that the girl behind her has busted out this whole ass knife. It's a sizeable knife. It's significant. I think we did it Zach's burner phone makes an appearance. We already knew it existed, but we didnt see it. so there's that. it's in his closet. Also, when Tom comes into Zach's room And he's like, what are you doing in here? And he's like, he tells him something, but it doesn't seem true. He says he was like looking for his A six. Yeah. When reality he's probably digging out that burner burn or something like that. Anything else I mean, there's just like a lot of random loose ends in this. For example The idea of Tom coming to his son to take him fishing. And it's it's It's so clear at least it was clear to me in the way that it's played in that moment that's like Zach is of the age where he maybe is trying to distance himself from the stuff he did when he was a kid. way childish things. But also kind of wants to do it. And like him reliving that moment and like like charcoal sketching out the trout later. Yeah. There's clearly a relationship, right. And Tom In his way, yeah, the advice may not be perfect because it reflects his own imperfections, but he is trying to reach his son in like a really earnest place when they have their moment in the pool I don't that we've seen any of that from Anna as of yet. Like her relationship with her kids seems So much more distant, so much more like practical And even in the practical parts, she can't show up for the driver's licensing Yeah, um and a bad mom I'm not willing to go that far, but she's not a good mom. Tom, G dad Definitely not willing to go that far They both seem like quite bad parents, but some more Tom, at least in this episode appears to be trying. He is attentive to the details. He's showing up for the therapy appointment.entive toail. All right, we're gonna hand out some quick awards. Too dumb to live. Who's the most too dumb to live in this episode Anna. Anna. It might be Anna every week, honestly But it's definitely Anna this week. She showed up to a known murderer's house and was like, Hi I'll be entitled to soon. I'm a lawyer thinking she can just ask all her cute questions. Right. And it's gonna to be totally fine What are you? This man is talking about how his snake needs more bones. What are you doing here? And she's like, that's cute Can we talk about where you were the nat of? Yeah, it's it's a lot. Anna too dumb to live. Come on Trashiest moment I think this has to be. okay, here's the thing, trashiest moment for The Incess isn't great. It itcess. That's it They Well, at least one of those characters doesn't know. Nevea may or may not know What's your I'm gonna say for the characters in the show. How way defining trashy? I think it's it takes many forms in many styles. 'cause to me, it's like what is the soapiest twist of this? Okay. See, I was thinking like, what is the trashiest behavior What do you think the trashy? Yeah. I don't think No, I don't think what Natally does there is trashy becausecause she doesn't know. I know. She's broken into someone's house, but like she's a teenager exploring things, whatever. That is a It's trashy of the show to be like Do some incest I see some teenage girls. See mine is some of both. I would say the trashiest decision is showing up to a random house that's a pop up nipple piercing situation. Tough. Wouldn't do it. Yeah. The trashiest like filmmaking cinematic choice in terms of way the show is made is definitely the puncturing of the strawberry as the nipple piercing It's both amazing and undeniably trashy. V trashy Let's just add to the incest argument though, the triangulation of She's also definitely slept with Zack So Nvea slept with she I think she has. I think they've done some stuff He feels like she could have strung him along without actually doing a lot, but You think that's just a lip biting emoji and nothing else has happened. She sent him like racy selfies. You think nothing else has happened? So do you think she has the lip biting emoji as her like profile avatar picture somewhere? You put that in there for her. Maybe Gross. It feels like the kind of thing. unfortunately, he might do. Ohross Why is it is so much grosser if he did it, but I can't articulate why. horrible 'causeuse had to scroll through all the emojis. He's like, you know what I That one. That's the one. Last not least, what are we calling this Weirdest line read. Weirdest line read. Yeah. I think we agree. Yeah, you want to do the honors? I don't know if I can Do I have a cadence right? Nice car, Nice car. I'm jealous. Is that right? What is it like? It's a little Tommyuisu.? Well, I think the opening is definitely a, hey. So you gotta go, hey, nice car, nice r. I'm jealous. I'm jealous. Also the way the particular relish Wh's very funny. The relish that Javiar Bardin puts on rid shers. Yeah I mean, this is just one of our greatest working expers. Cheero on your butt, you cheheero on your ass. He's just he's doing it in a way no one else can. He's menacing Ray here because Ray had the audacity to say, we're good, we don't need your help. Yeah. And he's like an obstacle. Let me fuck with him. So again, if you cross him even in the slightest, he will come fuck with you in one way or another. And also on the sort of like, are they half siblings front you know, should we connect what Juliette Lewis does to Amy Adams in her car, you know, like in terms of like come up to the driver's side window and sort of like reach in somehow Never great I don't ever want anyone ever at my driver's side window if I'm like in the car and not expecting them. Like that' there's see, I would have expected you would love that kind of thing. Oh jump That's what you' a friend. I'm just sort of like, don't do that. Well, yeah. Text me that you saw my car find you, You know? I think it's good behavior. It's good advice for everybody. I hadard that happen where like someone saw me this someone saw me the safety par lot and they're like hey and I'm like no, they don't that job. Yeah Absolutely not in a Also shout out safeay now I guess I had to shop in Bawns, whatever calamity for me. Don't creep up on anyone in their car. Don't stick your fingers into their window. No. Certainly don't reach in and grab the steering wheel to stop them from driving away. Nice car, nice car. I'm jealous And look, Ray is now totally on board. He I think he fully understands the Maxcady situation now beforefore he was wondering like Is this really it, Anna? Are you sure that this guy is capable of these things? Now he's experienced a little bit of it. I feel like he kind of gets the gist. done some detective work. Clearly He's the one tying things together as far as Nvea's parentage goes. Any other questions, you have anything you want to talk about going for before we unveil the board. I would say two things to flag. One at the ScAadD Art showh We get a clip of Alfred Hitchcock's Shadow of a doubt, a movie about a charming, but ultimately suspicious man and the people in his life kind of starting to put the clues together. C can't think of how it would possibly relate Jo. Do you S shadow of Doubt It's honestly been a very long time since I've seen it. Yeah. I would say I liked it, not Upper Hitchcock for me. I would like to wonder how Joseph Cotton would deliver a nice car, nice car, I'm jealous. Nobody put that into any AI system, Please We don't want to wish that on. This is strictly Wonder and Wedsday. Wonder. I don't want tona see it Yeah, Shadow of Doubt, which is a great movie, sort of slightly remade into the movie Stoker, which is a movie we both really like. I feel like we talked about this recently though I can't remember why out of the downownsto. It's never a bad time to talk about Chairwor Park so you know. All right What's your other thing about? Oh just like so the SJLP when they're trying to get movement on Ruben Ramirez's case before Max has started compelling people to help Yeah. They have this press conference. thought it was yet another moment of sort of like the celebrity of true crime, obfuscating and like eclipsing anything else, right? Like Max, the idea was bring him into the fold was going to help them like raise funds, raise awareness, be something they could leverage and to talk about It's so clear that even his public presence is totally outside their control. Well, like when he shows up at the cardi, not just like the guy that he is like, rememember when I fucked your wife so hard, she broke a blood vessel in her eye and I feel like we would be remiss if we did not repeat that line, but also then the other guy's like, Hey, Max Katie my car, you know, like he' so famous Lcally that this is how they're reacting. So. And this can't be the last that we hear from the Katie Hawks They will play a role in the back part of the season somewhere. A add them to the board. Let's do it. Okay Anything else Let's go to the board.'sing out the board All right week Three of this podcast, week two of the board. We've got the cardars that we're gonna add and we're not gonna to do that on camera right now. We will know eventually. Is that bonus content? Is that like subscriber only stuff struggling with string? Slowly pin things to a board. L E everybody's into something. We have started the stringing process. It's not a complete process. obviously. We have yet to connect for sure sex Yeah to like Natalie and Nvne, for example. Is that our first confirmed sex I guess so. I mean, other than children being born.om andanna had sex at one point, for sure se. We can only assume. But yeah, here we are. I mean, Tabitha and her cameraman, I guess, but that's just like a one card to one card situation. Yeah. Anyway, so this is our the beginning of the string. It's only going to get more deented from here Rob has requested images to add to the board. I would. I think next week we're going to do this a little differently, but we just wanted to give a board check upp. Anything you want to say, any connection you're most eager to. w here the one I'm eager to, but also terrified of Peanut butter the cat over here to I mean, some of the more insidious characters in our story. What about Peter butter the Cat down through cooking The cooking card. Cooking to dry turkey to max? T Max Don't cook the cat, please. Is the cat gonna get eaten? The cat could get eaten on this shit. That's why I'm saying peanut butter to cooking, not the dried turkey to Max. Max K gonna cook the cat. I really hope not. Is it called peanut butter for a reason. We still don't have a name for Jilliette Luis's character. No or Ethan Emberry's character I don't believe. Right? Nhing official for Ethan Embery's character. What about you, Joe? Where are you looking to get some clarity or some connection on this board We already drew this connection in advance, but I am curious about the like Juliette Lewis to Amy and Melissa. You know, the fact that this character knew Amy and Melissa And Anna was asking the question, you knew Amy Right? So if Anna wants to do her due diligence She should continue to ask Juliette Lewis more questions, which means we get those two actresses in more scenes, which is exciting to me personally. as it should be for all of us. Also I'm wondering, like what color string if we wanted to you know, just vary things up a little bit. You already vetoed more colored string because we can't even read Anna's name at this point on his. And she's only going to have more strings and more connections. but I'm just wondering what kind of visual marker could correctly signify for Lexi to Zach to Tom, I have watched you make out with my dad on our home couch. L R What suggest that to you? That's like a neon pink ouation, I think. Then we might have had two strrengs. At least two. that seems important to me. Sout every person there are two strths. onene of them's neon pink U All right, so again, we did get some suggestions from folks