Final Thoughts and Future Predictions

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From the world of legally blonde, watch Al, a new original series only on Prime videoide july first Hello, welcome back to the Pstage TV podc video. I'mora Robs. I Rob Bahononey. We' here talk about cape fear. Spooky. The first two episodes of Cape Far did a double premiere drop. so if you missed that and only watched the first episode, we're gonna be talkking about both episodes. You might want to go watch them and then come back and listen to us talk about it. I would advise it. Ramahoney Big picture Did you like these episodes of television? You know what I did. I am intrigued. Okay, tellell me. think Look, on on a line by line level Sometimes it can be a little blunt. Sometimes the dialogue can be a little on the nose. I think it gets the most important Cate Fear thing, right? which is like the bone chilling unsettledness of this kind of story. I'm unsettled. I'm sufficiently unsettled Okay, so the source material that we're working with here is there's a nineteen fifty seven novel by John McDonald called The Executioners., which I have procured, but not cracked yet I did rewash the nineteen sixty two film with Gregory Peck and Rot Mitcham. and I did rewash the nineteen ninetine nineteen ninety one film. from Martin Scorsese with D Niro, have you heard of him, Nick Nolulty Jessica Lang Juliet Lewis, both Jiet Lewis and Robert D Niro got Oscar nominations for that. both phenomenal in it extxtraordinary. And then of course The nineteen ninety three episode of The Simpsons Cpe Fair Well we should the first three are all credited as being the basis for this show. Right. I don't think I've ever seen that before. The like based on this novel and these two movies. But ifick Nick Antoska who's the showrunner of this version I think if he's being honest with himself, Yeah, he should credit the Simpsons as well Because that is a phenomenal episode of. Let's add it to the list. I think it was my first exposure to Far. C Fear was that episode of The Simpsons with Sideshow Buff. Amazing. Stalking. Have you seen it? I have seen it. Yeah. It's been a minute. I'm gonna be honest with you. I think it's maybe my favorite episode of The Simpsons He sings Gilbert and Sullivan, He steps on a bunch of rakes. Wow, it really is hitting all of your touchgones All right, so this is what so the question is Why? Why do we need a ten episode uh show, u based on a book and two movies and perhaps an episode of the Simpsons that were already quite well regarded and phenomenal. Do we need to tell this story again? And I think it is interesting to track This nineteen fifties novel, this nineteen sixties movie, this nineteen nineties movie, and the way in which the story is slightly mutated over those many adaptations. To reflect, and this is what Nick Antoska has said in several interviews, sort of to reflect the anxieties of the era. Every era gets its own caape fear And what does it say about the decade that it is sort of exploring. and, you know, Martin Scorsese talked about that as well where he was just sort of like, I am rememaking a movie that I regard very highly. it's sort of a K kind of a B movie. and his version, his Cape Far is notot really like any other Martin Scorsesee movie. It's what Years ago, my pal David Erlick in regard to the film Gone Girl Uh, I don't know if he coined this phrase, but the phrase he used was tras or peiece. Like something that is like yeah. Great, but also Slocky at the same time And like Martin Scorsese's Cape Fair is an absolute stone cold trasher piece. And all three movies are the two movies in the TV show are using the exact same score So that they're like bump, bump, bump. Like that isire score. still hits slap And then this show, right away when we get the sort of photo negative imagery that opens episode one of this show you know, or the pool is colored red instead of blue. That's a direct visual connection to the Scorsese film. Also we get the shot in episode two of Max's eyes through the slots of the clawet. R. That's like basically ripped from the poster. Absolutely. so Do you want to talk about sort of what our plan is to talk about this really well known story, Cpe Fear in a way that people are watching the show maybe haven't? seen any of these movies or read the book or watched that Simpsons episode, like you know What is a spoiler inside of this content? I genuinely don't know. Yeah That wasn't a conversation I was expecting to have about Cape Fear based on the idea of it. If you're not familiar with the movies, I would not describe them as particularly twisty. Like it's a somewhat straightforward story But within this adaptation, I think we're introducing all sorts of uncertainty as far as what actually happened with the inciting incident, which I believe in both movies and the novel, it's a rape that Max Katady has committed and specifically, I think in some adaptations of an underage girl that's been now changed to his wife, his pregnant wife has been murdered. presumably by him, but then also exonerated and reased from prison So there's some uncertainty around what happened. There's some uncertainty around the actual trial that led him and the plea bargain that apparently sent him to prison in the first place. And I gott to say Maybe he has a point as far as being a little bit mad that the prosecutor and his defense attorney ended up married. I'm not saying he's a great guy. But I too would be a little fussed Rob Hononey, Maxs Kitty. That's a good point. Not saying that. MaxsKittie is one of the most iconic Like on screen psychopath. Yes. you know, played incredibly by both Robert Mitcham and Robert Daniro and to get Javier Bardem who has already played one of our most iconic on screen psychopath. Several, I would say. What's your list? I mean, I think I think Skyfall might be included too. You're okay Not long not quite as iconic as No. But I do think this version in its deviations from the Dero one, especially, which is like, a functionally illiterate man who is like malicious and evil. And this version is more verbal in the way that Javier Bardem characters tend to be. Um That's interesting because like annti suugar is pretty non verbal. That's true. I I guess it goes both ways Um, so Heres Here's what's interesting. We're not going to talk about sort of like the ending of Cape Fear, I guess is what we're going to stay away from. And for the record, we don't know the ending of this series. Right. And we talked about this a lot with presumed innocent where Rob didn't know the story presumed innocent. I did. We were so careful about that. and then that version of that story was completely different at the end. So how far off the map are they gonna go with this version? There's already so many differences. But I do wantna talk about this core difference across all the adaptations, which is as we go forward in time And as our world gets more complex, perhaps this blurring of the lines morality lines you know, is increases. So In the in the nineteen sixty two film, we have cast Gregory Pck as Sam Boden, the attorney Atticus Finch himself, like just the most upstanding citizen possible. And it is Sam Bodden, family man and his lovely family And what happens when this elemental evil, as represented by Robert Mitchell comes to town and destroys your family. I just recorded an episode of The Re Watchables that's part of this Fr Hell month that Bill is doing. And this is sort of the his over reaching concept of from Hell, which is like this Element has entered your home and is here to destroy it. And' distinctly uncomplicated in some ways. L it's like a Knight of the Hunter style Y. This is evil incarnate. This is why you get Robert Mintam to do this, right? Okay. So in ninety one, Score says he's like, let's complicate it a little bit. Okaykay? So in his version Nick Nolty's character of Sam Bodin has buried some evidence in the case. He believes Mackcs Kitty to the crime. We believe Macks Kittie to the crime. We believe that ultimately Justice was serve in sending Max Katie to prison. R. Is De Niro's version of that character right when he's like, hey Did you bury some evidence in my case, attorney? So who's saying McCie has some points now? I'm saying person says he was like, wouldn't it be interesting if McCatady studied the law? Right. And he is actually the one who's like, here's the letter of the law.. And Nick Nolty's attorney character is like, I'm bending the law slightly to serve this greater idea of justice Also Nign Nulty's character in that version of the film is a philanderer. You know what I mean? L has these various flaws. He is not a Gregory Pck type. He is like a, you know, he's a husband and a dad but they had to leave town because he fucked too many women. and like, you know, he's got a relationship of a sort with Elliana Douglas and all this sort of stuff going on So that's the slightly different thing. Now we get to this version of Cape Far where as you pointed out, Max Katie is not released because he served a sentence, he's released because he is exonerated There are some Qion I don't have any questions about this, but the TV show is asking some questions about whether or not Max Katie actually did the crime. R. I think he did. I think there's evidence inside of these episodes that he did. I suspect he did. But I think the thing that plays whether you're talking about the fifties or the sixties or the nineties or today even you know, you're updating, you're modernizing, you're changing the framing. but that core idea of pllausible deniability of like I'm just, I'm just around. I just happen to be in the neighborhood. I'm just like I'm an innocent bystander. I have this airtight alibi and it turns the core attorney characters into this like position of I can see the thing that no one else can see. Right and no one believes me. And the law There's a limit to what the law can do for. Absolutely. And so what do I do when the structures that I believe in fil me. And that's what's so fun about De Niro's Max Kie, especially is because he has studied the law. he's like, o, I'm not on your property. Yeah. Oh, I'm, you know, like he's using the law. to get away with all the shit that he gets away with, right? Okay. So in this version, We have no Sam Bodden. it's Anna and Tom Bodden to attorneys. and as you alluded to, She was his defense attorney. He was the prosecutor. It's messed up. It's bad. It is optics bad Very bad. So we've got, you know, I was talking to you a bit about this last week where I was wondering if because I could tell that they had made Amy Adams into sort of like She was the defense attorney, which is the role that these other Sam Bodinens have played But I was like, so is Patrick Wilson just going be the like the Jessica Lang interior designer husband or whatever it is that she's an artist, I don't know, whatever it is she does. No, they're both attorneys. So they sort of split the role across these two characters. Patrick Wilson and Amy Adams are here But they have this like You know, they look around, Do you ever think we don't deserve this? They have this like picture perfect home They've got a fucked up kid to they've got a lot of they've got so many. I mean, it's almost like the glitching picture frame is a metaphor. What for the mirage of their suburban existence? What is a metaphor? What is the storm a metaphor Clunky rightider, unfortunately. That one was tough Um Okay, so we've got lawyers who have you know At least had like fucked each other during the case probably got married afterwards. What was the deal? They They say this very ominous thing in episode two that their daughter overhears, which is like We had to do the thing that we did. What was it? We don't know yet because there's so many mysterious questions and we're going to run down all of the open questions because they have stretched, you know, Nickantoska has decided to stretch this story from a two hour cinema masterpiece, trasterpiece into ten episode television series. And this is the thing I'm most worried about. Honestly, Javier Bardem sounded a little bit worried about it because in an interview with Entertertainment Weekly, they're like, what's the thing you were sort of like most anxious about? He was like, peopleople getting bored. Yeah. This is ten episodes with Max Katie. It's not a two hour jaunt around You know, the south with Max Katie, you are spending ten hours with him. So how can I add shading and nuance and whatever to him, Is he still this sort of elemental evil character that Robert Mitchem and Robert De Niro have played?. Yes, but like does he have You know the D Niro version has Charm to him. Certainly this version is even smoother and even in terms of like who he is seducing and who he is fooling. It's a much wider swath. I really loved the scene in episode two when he's touring the house and he's talking to the real estate the realtor, whoever he's talking to. Well, he knows how to wear a linen suit, that's for sure. Absolutely. But he's like, and that's the thing is like unlike, well, I would say Mitcham's Mascie blends, but unlike De Niro, he blends, right? D Niro is wearing like loud shirts and has like a bikini girl lighter and is as like crass as crass can be. And this is not the smoothie max kitty that we're getting here. But the way that he's like goes off on his rant about whatever and he's like But that's not the world you live in, my dear. Like I will get you the information you want. And it's just sort of like He's unsettling, but like, you understand why these various characters, perhaps most frustratingly CCH Pounder's character are taken in and sort of enamored by him. I think this is the smartest of the adaptive choices we've seen so far. Some of it, we're going to see how it pays off. like where it goes, what the secrets are within, you know, the two lawyers and their marriage and all that. The choice to kind of cloak Max Katady in the fight for social justice, I think is a really smart decision. And just the idea of like, what does it mean when someone is released from prison in twenty twenty six because they were seemingly wrongfully inrison? And like how do people treat him? What does he get pulled into? And I think structurally, if you're trying to make a TV show you need ways that he and Anna can be in the same spaces. Y. logically. withithout her wanting to call the police at all times. And so him becoming like, whether by accident or by crook, like almost the face of her organization, I think it's just like a really smart way to integrate this really mening element into her world. And I think to start with in episode one at the Gala, when she is talking about the flaws inside the justice system, So she's already starting from a place of the just like my whole life's work is to talk about how flawed the justice system is. And so but where does the rubber meet the road in terms of those values when it comes to someone like Maxcady? And she's like, no, but I know that he is. u, you know, evil. I know this to be true. And that's different from You're Gregory Px who's like, I believe in the law, I believe in law in order. And when various people are like, we could do this shady thing he's like, no, we have to go by the letter of the law in episode one We meet this sort of investigator character who works for Anna's organization is played by the Wire Jamie Hector Ray Rollins. and she introduces him and she's like, hereere's Ray Rollins. He does what the cops can't or won't do. You know, we are we already work outside They got to go around the boundaries for sure. No. I think all of that is interesting. I do. And even like when the two interns meet at that point, they're introducing, I believe his name's Byron, the other guy who they have recently helped get released from prison who ends up mysteriously killed or dead seriously? Well, I mean, there were gunshots, there was fighting I think we have an incling as to what goes on, but again, plausible deniability all around. He is ant airtight al. But the two interns who come to meet him are like like, talking about his lived experience and like the broken system. It's like all of this language that we use today to try to understand those broken systems Yeah is like being weaponized against presumably Anne and Tom as they try to protect their family and understand what kind of risk they're really in I think another needle here is when Ted Levine as Anna's father shows up and branded Devereaux. Oh, by the way We're in Savanah. Gotta be Dev Rse involved. and Tuss That's CCH Pers is Noah Touss. you've got twoousongs and Devereau, like we're living. We're thriving. Where was Blanche Dvereaux from? Was Was she from Savannah? She's from Georgia. yeah. It's gotta be. We have to do some deeper Golden Girls research, try to die the narrative. Oh my God, Is one of these characters bigig daddy? Great question. But I think that I think having her father show up and call Tom and Anna countountry Club liiberals. is another sort of like break in the building're Creating here Also, in terms of the anxieties, that Nick Antoska is like, okay, here what are the specific anxieties of the nineteen sixties of the nineteen nineties and the now's And what he's clearly latched onto for better or for worse is this tech anxiety right? R So Um You know Are there predators in your schools is a nineteen nineties question that Martin Scorsese' asking, rightight Is someone catfishing your teenage, you know? Is a man you sent to prison catfishing, your teenage son, is your security system, has it already been hacked? Yes. You know, all of these tech ways that, you know, the idea that like Daenerys Mascadi went to prison and studied the law. and it feels like Javier Bardevs Mexadi went to prison to study tech. I mean, I have many questions. if he is in fact responsible for everything we've seen so far, I kind of wonder if the answer might be he is in some things and other ones are coincidental circumstances. I would say some. The one that I like is almost the biggest logical jump for me is like, how did this man who's been in prison for seventeen years become a very good like world of warcraft player to the point where he would bond with a teenager or do you even have to be If you're smooth talking. Don't get to play video games in prison? They have Wow in there. They have subscription based MMO RPGs. I don't know, man. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Maybe prison has really changed. I don't I don't know. I actually don't know the answer to that, but I feel like you have internet access Sort in prison. Maybe that's all it takes. Great questions Do you want to do a mini Nepppo baby check in for this? I think we simply have to for every show now. Okay. Joe Anders who plays Zack Boden. Yeah theirir son That is the son of Kate Winslet and wow. Yeah And Mondays. Okay. Yeah. So That's that's one. That's one. And then Anna Brishhnikov, who plays the reporter who is integral in the first two episodes, Tabitha is Michael Brishhkov'saughter. Let's talk about this reporter for a second. Okay. If I were reporting a story, as I often have? Yeah. And the person I was interviewing winded up with a family of dead skunks in their pool. Yeah, that's the lead I'm sure it was making the story. There' no like this was off the record. Hader photo. Come on, the dead skkunk Yeah. You got a camera, man. This is a dream assignment all of a sudden. Absolutely. Especially now that all this evidence is coming out, like this man's released from prison, you're just sitting on the dead skkunk lead. I do really appreciate that Anna Bodden is so media trained that she's like so careful about what's on the record. what's off the record. She's like, you didn't say it So let's be clear, this is off the record. prettyty well done by. It was not in the brief. We said we were not talking about this' not. And she was like she's like, I'm sure you didn't see. Yeah. I'm sure you did bitch. Again, plausible deniability all around this Um So yeah,, how does that tech anxiety play for you? It's a little of both. I will say of all the characters we've had so far, Zach feels the shakiest as far as like his place within the story. I think the part of it that is the online gameing and cat fishing, that part I'm along the rd for the idea that he has leaked these like presumably nudes of this girl to his group chat. That feels like something a show like this could explore and get into. It's treatment we can dissect it's the like TikTok AI slop version of Max Katady's unborn son that he is now, I believe hallucinating walking about. Yeah. When it was just the AI slop video, I was like Okay, it's like ghoulish, but honestly believable. Now that he's become a sentient walking hallucination, I don't know So that leads into something else I want to talk about for sure. But I will say I watched epode one then I watched episode two like much later and I had forgotten about the AILab part. So like he hallucinated Max Katie's son. I was like, are we doing real ghost here Is that wasing. And then I re watchatched someone when I was like, oh no, he saw the AI slop version of it. But U Adam Katie, what Adam Katie would look like had he lived? Right. I want to talk about so we've got this Paranoia, right? What if you're, you know and Max Katie, the tattoos are interesting to me because De Niro very consciously made wanted, you know, and he's talked about this, wanted to make sure all the tattoos on his body were, you know, specific biblical references. So the iconography and, you know, he's got like passages long passages on his arms and stuff like that. W with this version of Maxki, he's got the Grim Reaper, which is same same as quite well done as whoever did the ink, but the eyes everywhere. Yeah. And so in terms of this like tech surveillance like Or is there another spiritual meaning to that? And that brings me into what I want to say, which is like alongside this Max Katie tech genius aspect is like Max Katie Voodoo practitioner. Yeah. Okay, because in both The mistress who shoots herself in the head twice while listening to cranberries in the opener. Yes And in the possum infested den where Zach ingested his own toe at one point or was forced fed his own toe. I mean, maybe the possum was doing the witchcraft. There's like bowls and seeds and candles and stuff like that and it's just like it's meant to invoke some sort of. It could just be in a Sibel Absolutely not. I don't think so? It's meant to invoke like witchraft. G some yogurt and you got some going. So like is Max Katie, in addition to like hacking your security system also casting spells Is that what's happening? I don't know. I would say We get two very distinct impressions of him over the course of these episodes. One, particularly with the cold open of episode two The physical threat of who he is is made very clear. right? This is not a man who you're just going to see looming in the shadows, like He fucks up these Nazis who try to jump him. And we love it. Look, we do love to see that part. And honestly, I do think escalating both what we see Max being capable of in terms of his physical strength and like ability to hurt someone, but also what the show is willing to show us.ight. Like a Nazi gets his head impaled on a bench press bar. Another one gets a kettle belt to the knee. and then we see Zach like with the I mean, shting his toe. We just put Euphoria to bed and here we are again Dlike severed toes and Nazis. Can we not escape? However, Rob Nick and Toska Do you look at his credits. Yeah. So he did the act and candy, like the two big things that he's done is the act and candy both true crime adaptations for Hulu, I believe. Yes Well received, whatever He was a writer on Hannibal. He was. So most notably for season three. People are eating toast Is this not in your Hannibal pocket? It's not a prime cut. it's not your first choice. I wouldn't think. If you have an exn I would never That's what, you know, that's for like the sausaging, you know. Think of it as a baby carrot. Okay I'm glad you rrou of the baby carrot We're trying to figure out how we want to cover this show. If it's going to be something we do week to wee. We don't really know email us, comment wherever you're watching this. Let us know if this is something you want to keep up with wee weeek. PrestigeV atpotify. comot regardless. Regardless. I would like for us to create an email for this show as we return to it Think of a baby carot at gmail. com is right there for us. What are your other options Rob Baby Bird the Splliff at gmail. com Okay Possum witch at gmail. com or posossum based witchcraft at gmail. com. backackyard cougar, fishing for skkunks. The system of fuck you Dipp in H handsome. How do you feel about any of those? Dipped Handsome was such a good phrase. Incredibly descriptive. Hi, Patrick Wils. Ver, very key. I wrote that down both times as I watched the episode. I think it's gotta be think of a baby carrot. Let's do a quick double check. Okay. whatever your thing It could be anything Cana helps you make that thing. Tama is a simple online tool thing It's a way to design with our magic AI tool things. social media your thing, generate images or videos of your thing, makeake tecks or presentations to show your thing. Whatever needs to be done for your thing, Canva can make it an even better and bigger thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing Every act of change begins with a neighbor, with someone saying, We take care of each other here. In food banks and food pantries, neighbors pack fresh food and dignity into every box, moving food from farms to families through feeding America's nationwide network. So when that box reaches a home, it carries more than food It carries a promise that together, we can end hunger. Feeding America, led by neighbors, give now to end hunger at feeedingammerica d. org d Okay, so through the magic of editing and perhaps Cameron, who's editing this podcast can put it down here at the bottom. Think of a baby carrot at gemail d. com is how you can reach us. I'm very happy about it and also was very upset at that line of dialogue I love a baby carot Do you still It's the jar for me. Zack I'm a fan of There I should say, this is There is a sun character in the book. There has been no sun character in the two movie. There has. So we're adding back in people. Let's let's Let's go through character by character And talk about all the Mysteries and questions we have around these characters. There are so many. Let's start with Max Katie himself Have you a bded Blue contacts. Wh? They're very unsettling I honestly think this is part of it. Like this character needs to have kind of an uncanny thing to him. And if he's gonna to be a little smoother in terms of his working with people our familiarity with Javier Bardem being like turned against us by like there's just something off looking at him. I honestly think' part of the package. I also wonder if this is meant to match Amy Adams' eyes, which are the way the The color grading is working on the show. they're like ultramarine. They're like really popping. And so if You know, I think the promo image is like their two faces sort of blurring into each other. So if the point is to be like two sides of the same coin, we're not so different, you and I and like having these matching eyeballs might be part of that too. Speaking of, we got far afield with the baby carrot of all this. The physical presence of Maxcadi is part of it, but you asked about like whether he's actually invoking some kind of witchcraft or magic or like what is making him such a good manipulator? I don't know the cause, but like clearly he has established as someone who can get people to do all kinds of things. Well, his father was a dog trainer. And so I'm wondering how much of this is like dog you know, because we got in the flashback, we see that his father put him in a cage among other things and trained him you know, so through like behavioral cues or whatever, like in terms of like How did he get Zack to eat his own toe or whatever when he wasn't even there Like, you know, are there You know, can he call someone as it seems like he does with his mistress and say certain things and get you do something because he' trained you. He's a hypnotic suggestion? Is it Is it some kind of witchcraft? Is it just like a more conventional kind of humanistic manipulation. I don't know. I don't know, but those bowls are He's doing stuff. I don't know what it is leading to. When Anna, and we'll get to all of our questions about Anna. when Anna saw those Bs At first I was wondering if she would recognize them from like stuff that Max Kie had done before. But she seemed when she asked her daughter, she's like, do you know what all this shit is? Why aren't they making a bigger deal out of like the witchcraft shit that's in their head? No no, I feel like if somebody if I found evidence of random hexes in my unfinished room, I'd be a little freaked out. Also finish that room. feels' exposed to the outdoors Apparently. Very confused. The poss' just living in there we werere firing contractors left and right Cexts on Javio Bem. Y Doc trainer father some weir shit around Christianity and his father as well. clearly Eyeball tattoos, facility with tech. brain damage, glitches, sees his dead wife and son. Yeah The glitches seem to, I mean, sometimes coincide with like flashes of light or things like that as all happens for a lot of people with a lot of different conditions. I don't know what the spazzing out is going to ultimately lead to, but it does make it particularly terrifying. when you've seen what he can do Yeah, the idea that he would be out of control for even a second. And this is to me what's the most terrifying thing about him with all of this plausible deniability, right? Like you have this revelation in episode two where Amy Adams' character is like connecting the dots between the text from Angel X and like something that U Max Katady has said Yeah. And it's like, All of these things that she believes are true And he's like so far ahead, he's laying the seeds in like the conversations and the speeches. and it's like he's like, catch up. Ctely.s it's so terrifying to think that you could be that far behind. And yet, I feel like Javioberta kind of ses that sort of h. like Mr. Piceman, I gave you all thes Okay, fingers and toes. It was right there. and about it But. sober at one point. Yeah after the trial That was kind of like a throwaway line. I think very important. Almost like ADR in, it felt like U Luse Cannon, potentially bipolar father, has a bad relationship with him. Yes And here's a seed I'm to plant Again, I have not watched past episode two I believe she Fuck Maxcatie And I think her daughter is his biological dauer. That's what I think That would be a hellscape of a show Well here's here's my thought. Okay. so One of the creep the creepiest things, I think, well, it's a long list, but Max Katie in the various versions creeps around the teenage daughter. This is like his thing. This is why De Niro and Juliette Lewis were nominated for Oscars. Right By the way, nineteen ninety one I saw an interview that Scorsese gave a ' ninety two or ninety three, perhaps, where he was talking about the scene between De Niro and Juliette Lewis in the school in the original. where he comes and he's like Um seducing her. Yeah And he like sticks his finger in her mouth and then he kisses her. Yeah. First of all, so Julia Lis was seventeen, playing younger. She's wearing like a retainer. It's very upsetting. She was seventeen. Dinner improvised the finger in the mouth thing and he told Scorsese he was going to do it and Scorsseese, he was like, great, let's not tell the girl that you're gonna do it. U So that like fear and uncertainty you see on Juliette Lewis, that's her being like, why is Robert De Niro a fifty something year old man, forty something year old man sticking his finger in my mouth Last one, at least. Julia Lewis has lived a life, man. She's That was first year the MTV Movie Awards didn't know kiss and they nominated that kiss from Cape Far. Are you kidding me? I'm kidding you First of all, what teamenss out there let's go watch Cpe hereer? And even if' everyone watch Cpe? I guess that's fair. It's just, oh my God, that is a horrendous decision. So, I think they're hard swerving away from Max Katie creeps around the teenage daughter in this version. And you think the hardest swerve is what if he is her dad I think he's her dad. they're not gonna to do that. And here's all the swarves they're doing. Yeah. She seems like she might be gay Yeah. So I don't think she's going to be seduced by Joe I got news for you. She is. I mean, she's gay but she might could be bi, but she could be bi, but like she wants to kiss her friend. She likes Meghgan Rapino shoes. Fan of Meghan Rapino is the new friend of Dorothy as far as I'm concerned will make her Qeer H his biological daughter. Y. And the person he's seducing and catfishing is the son actually. Oh boy. I mean, it does seem like that is what has been set up So like in terms of What secret could Anna be keeping from Tom? Be there are moments where she has opportunities to tell Tom things and she's not telling him the fact that She fucked Max Katie and got pregnant by him. And he's like, I never told anyone what happened and why would I start now and all that sort of stuff like that? Like I think there's a watch on this show where you gloss past that as like something about hiding the evidence or some way she messed up the case or like didn't file a thing on time or whatever. Now that you're laying it out, I think you're absolutely right. that there there is clearly a secret between them that is distinct from whatever conspiracy to commit things has going on with Tom. Yeah And the way that those secrets intersect and what kids may be involved as a result, I mean, my skin is crawling, just thinking about it. Because I like this idea, I mean, I hate this idea, but I like this idea of Natalie being seduced not sexually, but sort of like this bleeding heart You know, when she overhears right, parents say like We had to do it. Yeah. you know, and she asks her mom something about that like, right, he had to plead, right? So this idea that she's just sort of like believes Max Katie wasn't guilty Yes and then maybe finds out he's her real dad and all of these sort of things like be extremelycause there is an actor you know, she's talking to her real dad Paul on the phone who seems deeply checked out of everything. And there is an actor playing him, but he's not like an actor who is like known for anything. so I don't think that her biological dad, Paul is going to play a huge role in this show. So that's where that's where my mind went Stra into the gutter, it turns out. I guess so. Okay, let's talk about Tom Boden Captain American himself. Yeah Patrick Wilson. I love Fatrick Wilson. I'm so glad's here. J joy every time. And do you think it was his idea to be like, should they see my arms? Do think? Che I put my sleeves up a little of the sleeves. What do you think for breakfast? Do you think Do you think Tom Bden would do that? As one does Mental health issues in his family. He was very squirrely when the doctor was asking He was in history of mental health issues in his family flashback to something in his teen years. like his flash. when he's with Zach in the hospital there's a flash of something and it looks like a teenage boy like walking into a room. It does. And maybe this is just me being masters of the universe pill having just seen it, but it sure looks like a hean poster on the wall, which would suggest like time frame wise, it would be him and not somebody I was trying to so that not the one on the door, but like inside the do I wasing timestamped the one in the door and I couldn't That's what it looks like to me, but look, it could be another half naked man in a loin clloth type get upp, you know, Beeast master, let's hope. Okay. Um, extramarital affair. Perhaps. This is a, you know, a Cape Far classic or a bait and switch. That's very ambig That's like, sort of what we're meant to think. There's a woman the phone and she's like, I don't wantan to be weird, but you want to hear about this. We gott to talk about it. We need to meet, et cetera, et cetera. Follow question If he is having an next maral affair, is there any possibility that it is Callie his daughter's friend in a very American beauty kind of way? I hope not. Callie who's like your dad's hot. She's interested. Yeah. And look I think a lot of people would be interested. I hope for I hope for Tom's sake. Patrick will say. That's not what's happening. You know, the man is dripped in handsome. Okay Microdosing mushrooms Yeah, what's going on exactly? I think for anxiety, he's microdosing mushrooms. So we think JHB, what do we think I don't know, I don't microdose mushrooms. But but else do you microdose with a dropper like that? Like GHB is the only thing I could think of, like something sedative. It's like a take the edge off kind of drug clearly. So and he's doing it in a way slightly surptitiously. So whatever he's microdosing to take the edge off A could be a secret that he's keeping B Something that could be laced at any point. We've seen him put that dropper on his tongue twice, and Max Kitty could put anything in that bottle and what could happen to Patrick Wilson? Just the vulnerabilities welcome into our lives. It's crazy. Okay. so that's my Tom Boden rundown button The Soopia thing. Yeah No friends. It seems like he had the few that maybe stuck with him after the Soopiaing, he seems to have abandoned for the sake of Angel X. Angel X among us. All right, drugs. She is what was what was dirty hot? Dirty hot. She is dirty hot. Yeah but Dugs willingly or not Like smoking weed, we're told, but also this seems deeper than that In love sllash Lest with AngelX. Yeah. has a secret cell phone. the whole burner situation Listen, I'm rooting for you Anna Boden, but the fact like, and first of all, I love the whole what's this picture and used his face to unlock the phone? Great It's a good move. Great move. But also If your son's going through all this stuff, I think you need a back door into his phone no matter what. That feels likeike why are we giving this kid a lock phone? And also they just like, leave like the fact that he can like wander out into the night and his sister has to go bring him back home, like Why isn't this kid under more watchful eye at any given moment? I think this is another way in which the story has been modernized, right? Like if this is a nineties movie He's under lock and key, right? Like he is not let out of the house or it's at least a bigger ordeal. Maybe, but Natalie is sort of like vulnerable in the version. But I think I think the way that they're treating Zach in general, like one of the things I really do like about these first two episodes is the source of some of the marital tension between Anne and Tom is like their parenting styles.. Like Tom is like, we need to be present with our son to help him get through everything's getting through And Anna iss like, but I need to solve all his problems by snooping through his phone and like being a detective, basically. I need to know what I'm dealing with so I can fix whatever is happening with him. And like that difference of opinion is starting to wedge them apart It's also clearly like part of what drives that crazy in the first place. And I know a lot of teenagers hate their parents. this kid hates his parents. my parents. The scene that he has with Max Katie in the hospital bathroom is terrifying the way it's shot. likeike, I think they're doing a great job of and we don't see all of that. Yes, But like the cinematic claustrophobia of like Maxs Katie's reflections all around him The idea that this is a man who is very good at manipulating people, witchcraft or not H moments alone's not witchcraft. I have to say at the end of the day.' fine if he thinks it' witchcraft, but I doubt very much given this story that it's actual affection. I hope it's just like a whistle, a dog whistle clicker. t. even hypnosis. like might be fit the story better than witchcraft, but Yeah. Zack is in a bad way for a bunch of different reasons. We get some hints as to like the fact that he has a he has had a hard time dealing with the fallout of his own actions As far as what he did with Sfhia, blames himself, hits himself, like clearly he's a lot of shame, willill not leave this poor girl alone. like wants to, and I think this is another thing these first two episodes do really well, set up all of the kind of different forms of stalking that are happening, right? Sometimes it's Natalie walking down the street and a podcaster is hounding her. Sometimes it is Max Katie out in the yard. Don't do that podcasters We would never Sometimes he's a cougar in the backyard Sometimes it's Zach who I think genuinely means well But wants to go to this girl's house in the middle of the night to apologize. It's like abolutely and And she's like, no than. She is not interested. I think in addition, I love that connected tissue you drew between the stocking. I think also there's this idea of like arere there mistakes you can fix? Yes. You know, And this one Ny's like there's some things you just can't Right U last not least and this this might be in the drugs andor witchcraft thing, the seeing seeing Adam Katie, seeing ghost of the AI slop of the teenage version of Max Katie's dead son. I really hope this pays off in a way that we will find satisfying, but I kind of doubt it. I am suspicious of this plotline. Yeah. Can I ask you a question though on the cat fishing front? Please. I need your help I am not a woman, nor am I a murderer pretending to be a woman on the internet I need you Life is long. I can't say I understand the series of emojis that exist in some of these flirtatious messages and I would like for you to help me decipher them. This is like adolescence all over again. When there was like all this code in adolescence, you're gonna to ask me as if I like We're just trying. A woman of an advanced age is going to be able to decipher these emojis. We're tilting at windmills and sometimes they exist over text. This is the text This is the text that Zach was sent by Angel X, whoever he or she may be. Not a game, not a trick, just a girl who wants how your voice sounds like and wants it closer The series of emojis is Wilting fllower black heart flame. I didn't even know there was a Wilting flower emoji What does that mean? What does wilting flower emoji mean emotional pain or death of romance Maybe love really is dead. Black heart, Wilting fllower very like, I'm sad. Sure, you know, won't you talk to me? I'm so sad. I get that. That probably makes sense.in. Look, I mean, okay. They're just kids in love. or a kid and an adult man in love I did laugh at Or a kid an adult man trying to seduce him Y to get back at his mother who he might have fucked at one point and sent him to jail. Tail us old his time. Tail us old his time. The text that ack sent back at one point of you're not just a girl anymore. You're a storm system Then let me flood you. Let Yeah, exactly. let me flood you. That's Wave black heart wave. We get wave black heart wave. That'sl self explanatory. It was wilted fllower that really you know, well Think of a baby Carareageima. com if you have some other more advanced analysis The emoji breakdown of adolescents is just really I was terrirain. Okay. Well, on the storm front, we've got so much storm met storm metaphoring happening in these episodes. I have to think that one of the trees that is being complained about in episode of onene will fall. I've got a few cheheckovs on the list, but that's definitely one of. It's gotta be. You know what I mean? Tombden's inability to get chores done around the house seem like they're gonna come I mean, is that, yeah, is it just gonna crash into the entire house or maybe just into the den that's half outside anyway. I don't know if you want to tag yourself anywhere in these episodes, but that one is me unfortunately. The like, I mean to do this chore, but it goes undone. Did you call the people? Sure Yeah, I'll get right. I'm definitely gonna to do that tomorrow when I don't have five podcasts. I feel like I'm more of the like In terms of the differing styles, betweenween Tom and Annaab B. Yes. Storms are brewing She's like, let's move this party onto the sun porch And Tom's like, it'll be fine I'm Anna. I'm like, why why wait to find out? Why risk it? When we can move everything you've grilled onto the sunpoint. Better safe than soaked. Yeah Okay, Natalie voted Quer question mark seemems to be do her parasle It seems like her friend doesn't know Seems like her grandad knows. Yeah, at least he has an inkling. your friend does know. Do think so It'd be weird if we kissed because I don't think of you that way. I think I believe that part is true Yeah, but does the friend know that Natalie does think of her friend that way I mean, Natalally's not very subtle. I think it I mean in the like Down bad enncyclopedia. Yeah Can you blow smoke into my mouth? pointoint blank? It's like pretty far up It's pretty far up the list in terms of examples. That's a real flood me were moment. All right, Max Katie's biological daughter question mark. Maybe Meghgan Rapppino shoes. I don't have much else for her. I actually really like Lily Colleius is the actor who's playing Natalie. I really like what she's bringing to this part so far. I think there is a There is a warmth, there's a curiosity, there's like big older sister energy. And I think the like combination of like Son you don't understand and daughter you take for granted can set us up to do a lot with this family structure. Sure, Anna being like so great we never have to worry about you Exact pererfect. It's like. Somebody's gotta fish the skunks out of the pool unfortunately, and she is the one who does it. I will say in terms of like check offff something, What of the inelegant things in these episodes her taking a full open container to walk down the street, I was like, That's unhinged behavior. Why is she doing that? It is simply so that she can throw it at a scummy podcaster? As you should. Yeah, maybe you should always walk around with an open container just case a scummy podcaster Why not comes calling. Other mysteries Greenhood mask lady seen by both Anna and Max. What's going on with her Anone I don't think we have any grounds to even guess who she might be yet. Do do you feel any inkling as far as what that character might represent or where they might intersect with these people's lives? I mean, she's a real person since both Anna and M sa her She was in the hospital bumping into Anna, and then I was like on the street or something where she ran into Max. it was kind of like lurking around him. Yeah U that hair could be a wig. Yes And then the mas mask covers the face, hood covering a lot of things. The green hooded jacket, I think is quite tasteful I like look. I like the look. his dead wife You think his so who who was found in the swamp? I don't know. Well, so we do get acknowledgement that the wife's body was like stolen? Mbe so. The wife's body was left in like a bog or a swamp, it was like chewed up by gators, basically. pererhaps beyond recognition. But then how would they even know that it was supposed to Meicate his wife in the first place I don't know. dental records, something like that. So they swapped out the teeth? Who's they? I don't know. This must go all the way to the top. Yeah, but I don't know what the top H here's an idea. What if Max Katie's wife pregnant and mayaby Adam like actually exists somewhere because like maybe she's like, I don't want to raise my kid with this dude. You think she faked her own death and frames him or wow. So we potentially have a man who went prison for killing his wife who he did not kill. Yeah And a mistress who's claiming credit for that kill, even though she also did not kill her. That woman escapes, gave birth to an actual child who may or may not be on TikTok posting A slot videos of himself. They're now infiltrating the psyche of a wholenother family. The sister of which may actually be Maxcadey's biological daught. We have ten episodes of film Oh my God Don't take anything for granted and I don'tt said limited series. I really don't This is ultimately going to be the struggle of the show, I think, is who else could she be? I don't know There's no other like woman around, you know what I mean? Like there's no one else The mistress, I thought it couldn couldn't she be Like Tom's potential mistress. Maybe but don't whyy is she masking her face like that? I don't know. She's to mask her face because the two people who bumped into her would recognize her. Yes. That's why she has to be masked. What makes sense that And the the dwn hair is like a real throwout for like someone with like you know, dark hair, That is what your life looks like I really have no clue. I am terrified now that all of these threads are linking together potentially this way. This is a dizzying amount of potential mystery It's so much. And I really think maybe they should have done six episodes, but we'll see what happens Yeah This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of Doom scrolling? Smart move Another smart move Getting help from one of state Farm's nineteen thousand local agents when you choose to bundle home and Auto Bundling J another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state One other thing and you know, we talk about plenty of other things, but one other sort of logistical thing I want to talk If you go to does thedogdie. com fear is is a real does the doog die dot com Yeah This family doesn't have a dog. No, it is a cat. And Max Katie is a dog lover. He's got a dog He's got a dog. He's just out here like having a good time, adopting dogs. Oh yeah, I making bilingual dick jokes. I loved that scene where he's just like screwing this guy over and taking his dog as his own. I thought that was great. And then I was like, oh, he's not going gonna kill a dog. but then I rewash epode, I was like oh oh, there's c. There's cat. Mr. P peanut butter, I believe is his name. Mr. Peanut butter Joe is cooked. There's no way that cat's. Given that this guy wrote on Hannimal, perhaps literally. Yeah, who is to say U so Im I'm on peanut butter watchatch, honestly Does the cat dieot comot I'm worried about it. All right, anythingthing else that we haven't talked about that we need to get into? Honestly, there's still somehow a lot of stuff in this show. is Yeah We don't have certainty on what happened exactly with Byron U and his mom. But I feel for sure Yeah. that Max Katie got him like drugged or, you know, on like which drugs or something like that Like I think it's possible that his mom did kill him and then died. But like in terms He went out and got drunk and took a lot of drugs. You think you think Max Katy nudged the situation along Yeah. He's a nudger And that's, I think one area where all of this gray area that Max Katie is living in really potentially works because we get this information. like Byron is like kind of skittish around crowds. And so the idea that he wouldn't want to go to this big gala or that it might spark some like real angst for him or strain with his relationship with his mom, plausible But yeah, the fact that he is kind of like nudging things along. and I think this exists too in just his language and the way this character is written right now where it is it is so much Oh, I didn't mean that literally about seeing my dead wife and child, but also I did mean that other part literally about the fingers and toes. Yeah. It's like he's having it both ways. D did mean that about his wife and his child. Apparently Yeah. Everything is a symbol. everythingverything is literallyal Ething's a storm. It really is. Everything's a wilted flower emoji. Anything else You know, how many flashbacks do you have tolerance for? Because listen, we get this like black and white opener. which is a prison flashback. and inside the prison flashback, there's a colored flashback to Max Katie's dead wife who's maybe not dead. Yeah and the ultrasound Um Can I ask you a question about the prison flashback? Oh, please. Is there any thought in your mind? Anna and Tom would be so ghoulish as to be like behind a hit on Max Katie in prison. I don't think so. Seems beyond what they're capable of. Th if Anna iss like, let's tie these loose ends, I don't want anyone to ever know that I had sex with him or that he's the biological father of my child You know That's possible. What a web weave. But if you know, if she had sex with Max Katie like when she was representing him And she was not sober at the time. Yeah. Which drugs are otherwise like That's that's, you know, are we going to get a flashback to seventeen years ago? and Anna and their affair. Yes Okay doing like a CGI. No, I don't No, sorry. I'm walking that back. I don't think we're getting the actual flashback. I think we'll just get expository scenes where they talk about it. Okay Um We're going to get Tom childhood flashback. I think we'll get more poster situation. Whatever is in that room Anna and her dad flashbacks. I don't know if we'll get that one. Literally. o But clearly he's gonna be back around at some point. I feel like we're just getting as many flashbacks as we can to fill the ten episodes of the show. Do you think we will get more flashbacks or Cpe Far tradition. One of Anna or Tom walking out onto their porch and looking out into the darkness holding a weapon of some kind. They have to do that. I mean, they've already done it like five times. is It is cape fear required. But how many times is the question? Shoot it into the shoot the gun into the empty the clip into the darkness. It's the only way to be safe. All right, anythingy else you want to talk about. Joe I have a couple of quick headit things before we get out of here Tom has this line at the very beginning of episode one She split herself into two different people. It's a fourteen hour procedure, but if you survive it, you get a lot done Is that a severance joke? I hope so. O Apples,s like it feels too coincidident. I hope so. Feels like it has to be. U He also says that skunks are dumb Is that true? Tough for the skunk community. Is that true I did a lot of research on this It does not seem to be true. Pigeon hateater Rob Mahoney, Skunk lover? Skunks seem like a better like better members of the community to be. I take a skunk overver a possum. I'll tell you that much right now. I don't have a problem with that possum. I think don't fire you know what Don't fire nail guns at the possums. They didn't do anything, do you? Don't fire the nail gun in general, Kelly. That's a checko's nail gun. think that's gonna be wield. Yeah, that nail gun's coming back. I I hope against the right person I don't know who's Stray nail gun in the house. Yeah It's pretty gnarly already.. I did find a lot of skunk materials out there insisting that they are quite intelligent and quite smart. That said, Most of the sources seem like, Pet skunk propaganda So I don't know if that's true or not But a quick shout out before we get out of here, Paul Schneider of Paul Parks and Rec Fame notorious Mark Brandanoz, I want to say. show the problem with all of season one appppears very briefly as a cop. I hope we see him again. Really? Yeah, that's him in the hospital, onene of the guys who's interrogating Max Katie. I love Paul Schneider. I completely missed it. I think you're beard blind right now. I a littlecial hair and just like I can't even see these if miss Sneider entirely, well he'll back. I'm sure. And he'll probably die would be my guess. If you are a law enforcement official or anyone around this family, Watch out. I fear your life is in danger. Watch out Fllow question, last question. Do you think Savannah coffee Rustters got some money for the product placement inside of this episode. They should have paid some money for the product placement in this episode. I've just had my toe cut off, but I want. is a fresh hot cuped black Savannah coffee roasters. It was way too specific I mean, here's the question, do you want that kind of publicity if you're Savannah coffee roaster? I don't want Zack as my spokesman, No. Totist Zack. Also I think I think Tom's wearing like a local ice cream shop shirt at one point. So I think they're trying to be like, We're really in Savannah, but I just thought that was a really weird line. I did look at the reviews for Savannah Coffee Roasters. I gotta say the service didn' seem great over. Oh no, But it was consistently like, you know what, the coffee is pretty good, but these people did not pay attention to me. What is wr with coffee shops like Tom's Brewing at home. They're not going. I thought he was when he said I would like a black hot cup of Savanah I was like, are they door dashing this? What are they do? you know? one of them was gonna pop out and go get it. No, the service is bad. You gotta brew it at home. Gotta buy the beans Savannah coffee Roasters. All right Svanada coffee Rasters, you want to send us some beans? sample S sure. why not. You want to hit them with that email one more time Yeah, that email is think of a baby carrot at gmail. com or if you prefer prestige toV at spotify dot com Yeah. The VIMbox is always open. Yes We are wrapping up Widows Bay. There's a couple more episodes of Widows Bay left And we're, you know, sort of figuring it out as we go. We're looking around. we're eyeing the landscape. But we really would like to hear from you whether or not you're all in on Cape Vear and you would like us to cover Cape Var in the way that we cover shows. Just straight up, are you watching it? Like we have no idea what the imprint of the show will be. Presumed innocent feels like a bellweather, but You know, Th these things can be lightning in a bottle or savanah storms in a whatever. I will say, if people ask me, should I watch Cape Fear, Here's what I will say. I'd watch Javio Bardem do almost anything. He's so good in this. He's incredibly.. We's so stupid we ha'ted about that yet Guess what? He's fantastic. He's really I also love Amy Adams in like a very southern murdery limited series. I'm a big fan of that. Patrick Wilson, I'm always a huge fan of. I think he has like He's got such like Captain America dripped in handsome dipped in handsome good looks that like I think he gets underestimated. but I just think he's incredibly good and I'm really excited. I love his like you know, dad making inappropriate jokes when he's like, I could pop it on ice, pop that toe back on for you know what I mean? Like I just love what he's doing with Tom so far. I love Tom's balance of like, we'reld he's like the head of his class in law school like of his class, but also he has that kind of like Dad low EQ, like, I'm gonna blurt out all of my son's psychological problems in the middle of this hospital and just tell everyone all about it. Like poor situational over. dad is like Did you see adolescents look We are I would say we are off the people of the Ringer, maybe co counselors in the defense of Amy Adams. We have been on the forefront. U I'm not going to pretend that everything she's in that she's like a can't miss or a like never misses sort of actor, but her highs are exceptional. They're so good. rememains to be seen if this is gonna be that. Like I do love the premise of her in this story. I will say both of their southern accents are like real spotty in these first two episodes. Sometimes they're using them, sometometimes they're not, to be honest, I don't even care. I'm having enough fun time. H kind of love, Javier Berdem is doing it like I was raised in Spain until I was thirteen and then I learned English traumamatically in North Carolina.ight. That's his accent. He's got like there's something sort of dialed in. something countrified about the way that he's speaking English. We should say Dodgy accents are a proud tradition at Cape Fear because what the fungest D Nio doing is very true. It his Oscar nominated role. I'm gonna call it homage. Okay a pastiche of something. Um Yeahah. so I would say if people were like, should I watch this show? I would say, yeah. Yeah, watch this show. Are we going to regret that around episode seven? Possibly. String at the story is going to be a challenge. I look forward to seeing how they handle it. I would say this is one though where if you are very skittish about being followed, stalking, like I think this would be a really hard watch. if there are a lot of people just like creeping up on each other for absolutely no reason in this show. Sure Other than that, I think it's well enough made and I am intrigued Okay What's a normal amount to be worried about stocking versus an abnormal amount to be worried about? I don't know where to draw those les. Is that for me to say U Thankks everyone who worked on this show. Jacob Cornett is here as always. holding it down. Cameron Dimoody is, you know, doing the edit on this podcast. Shout out to our team who are in Sweden as we speak. Living it up. And we'll be back with Widows Bay and perhaps more of the show. Oh and last not least Parlman's in the show. we don't know who he's playing yet Patrick Fischler, who's always really fun is in this show. We don't know who he's playing yet. I hope like an even scummier podcaster would be a fun role for a whole podcaster ecosystem. Are we are we doing? okay, we keep saying goodbye and coming back, but are we doing a a retrial of Max Katie because he's he's provisionally released. Yes and they haven't. they're going to there's some sort of trial that he has to do How is there Thats that's sort of what I got from CCH Pounder's character, Noah when when Anna's like, but we're not even taking his case And she's like thought she's saying like the case is done, he's already out. Well, she's like I thought she was saying he's provisionally released. I believe believe thaterally said provisionally released. So I there is like something that has to come. Is it a court case? Is it something else, you know, just paperwork has to be filed? I don't know what that case you know is, Here's one of other loose ends we didn't talk about too. A what presumed innoc in season two is. W full time. honestly, they would kind of fit of a world. I don't know how like Rachel Brosnahhan defending Javio Bbard, especially in season two is in Chicago. I don't know how we get to Savannah or vice versa. But one thing I'm still wondering about is like we are told that Max Kady is basically urged by Anna to take this plea deal, right for what he believes is like a twenty year sentence life too save his life, a twenty year sentence. Yeah Th then something happens and it sounds like the judge based on his telling, unilaterally decides that this is a life sentence. like, I don't know if that's an exaggeration or maybe I' misconstering what he's saying. I missed detail there. What we know for a fact is he was given a life sentence. You don't plea for a life sentence in the vast majority of cases, I guess, unless the death penalty is on the line What even happened with the plea deal? I don't know. Doesn't seem great legally. No. Okay I think we did it. I think so too. I think we made a podcast. Thank you, Joe. Thankk you, Rob. We'll see you soon byye