The Alamo and Laurie Standoff

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N customers get three hundred and fiftyteen bonus bets guaranteed when you get five dollars five for seven days. twenty one plus imp present and select dates. First online real money wager only minimum five dollar wager required for seven consecutive days. five doarars first deposit required. Bonus issued as n withdrawable bonus bets, which expiire seven days after receipt. restrictions applies, see full terms at fanool d. com slashportsbook. Gambling problem callall one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred my reset Hello, welcome to Pstige TV podcast. feed. I'm Join Robinson. I' Rob Mahoney. It's another euphoria Sunday here at Sycamore Studios. Rob, how you feeling? Loopier than ever. Yeah I guess as loooopier as regular. This is now our custom on Sundays. We only have two more of these to go. And one of them is a finale, a superersized finale. Kind of bizarre to think about. I would say, especially given where some of the characters are right now, with the super size finale, there's probably a lot of ground we can cover. I was thinking about that a lot because I just, as you know, I was at a stRars event for the Outlander finale on Friday and then the Bys finale is hitting this upcoming week. And so there's just like a lot of conversation right now about finales of long running Huge fandom, contentious fandom shows, stuff like that. How's it going on the boys? It's hotly contested I would say. That seems generous based on what I've seen. I'm interested to see how it all wraps up Outlander has the sort of burden of expectation of like books hanging around it, but I actually think a lot of the fandom was pretty happy with how Outlander wrapped up But just I was thinking about that and I was thinking about Euphoria, and I'm like, I don't Euphoria Euphoria is sort of like blissfully free of some of those expectations, right? Because don't I don't think there's I don't know, when I've covering a show for a long time and we're coming up on the finale, I get really sort of tense and agitated thinking about not just how am I going to enjoy it, but like what is the fandom backlash going to be? Be there's usually this era of sort of like mourning of like, I've been with this show for so many years. I've been invested in these characters. It's never gonna end in a way that I'm gonna be satisfied with. But I feel like the Euphoria fandom is free from that because there's been so many stretches of years without Euphoria And even though the show has been on for I don't know, six or seven years or whatever, it's not like people been tuning in every year and spending time with these characters. And then also there is just the fact that season three is just another animal, another Python altogether then the previous seasons and the specials. And so I'm not getting that sense of Um, There's no winning here right the end of Euphoria as there is often the case with some of these other shows. I mean, there's just not as much guessing at like how does it all end period. Right. I think because it's such a loose amorphous thing, especially in this season, as you mentioned, but I mean, fans of the show do feel very strongly about it. Absolutely. I do think that we have filtered to a point where if you're down for this, you're still here and if you're not, you've already objected like many episodes, if not seasons ago. so You know, let's all just walk into the burning Joshua Tree together. Though I do know a couple of people and not just our colleague Andandy Greenwald, who are like tuning in this season who had not watched it previously just because the conversation is so loud around it. It's sort of like Survivor fifty, You can't avoid it. Rob has to hear us talk about it a lot at the end. But I avoid it in every other respect of my life. But you know the name of some players. I gotta say I don't. I think you do. I zone out Or maybe just like tap into my Cassie style PTSD during those moments and just check out me to recall the names of basketball players sometimes, but you're not gonna remember the name of Se, Survivor Legend Si. Joe, I never put those expectations on you. That is you putting those expectations on yourself. Anyway, here's the point. You can reach us at PressyTV at spotify dot com dot Always. Maddie's number one boy at Gmail dot comot a few handful of emails. in the intern between when the episode ended and when we started this recording. A lot of the emails we're getting recently are, Dar God, where's your next Widows Bay episode.ve got great news for you. We already recorded it. It's coming out next week this week in several days day in a few days. Yeah Covering two episodes, episodes four and five We did an episodes of Skins, UK. Cverage last week and in two weeks we're doing a Fridayight lightights episode. Retrospective. Retrospect. Yes. So that's what's going on. going on That's, you know, a wide swath of content for the people. It really is. But Widows Bay will be coming back from us. I promise you, you do not have to worry. You do not have to hex anyone. It is happening. Don't worry. Should they still hex somebody? Probably. Mailbag. let's do it Catherine emailed us right after the episode ended with a theory that I'm already seen catching fire across the internet. Okay is Rue Already Dad. I mean, to be fair, hasn't this theory already caught fire for every show since the dawn of time Let's engage. So when is it purported that Rou died? Car crash Oh here. Yeah Oh, so not previously. Car crash, Berdie Bush. Not polo mallet, not any of her previous potential overdoses. No This was her. this was when she Did she die Swerving off the road And is the burning Joshua tree sort of signal of her death We do see her obviously in the trailer for next week's episode, but like Is she dead I'm gonna say wouldould that be interesting? I think it could be interesting. Okay. It depends on what you do with it, right? And how you choose to manifest all of the plot lines that would result. I think that's where you get into trouble with something like Rue dying because you would still have to show us all the other characters, either in her head or after life fuue state or not And so what are you going to do with those sequences and how true to the actual events of life would those be? I don't think she's dead, but I was just trying to figure out if I thought it was interesting if she would be dead. And certainly inside of this episode, when you get Um Lexi and Gidy and Adlyn, who probably is a character name, but Gilly. Gilly, there you go. Lexi and Gilly sitting down with some to old pals. Budget Sangaria in the courtyard there and talking about killing off characters. You have to kill off characters well it's just talking, talking, talking, right? So that's sort of hanging over. everything and then there's just like I never felt more certain that Rue is not going to make it out of the season alive than Talking about wanting to have kids in the church scene talking about wanting to come home, even though it does appear spoilers for the episode seven trailer if you care, that she is home in next week's episode. but is she home or is she dead? I don't know. These are just questions I'm asking of a Sunday evening But But the question I was asking myself as I was thinking like Are they really gonna kill Rue? Are they gonna kill Rue? Is that what's gonna to happen They can't do it too early because As much as this has kind of become like the Siddney Sweeney Cassie show to a certain degree Can you have two more episodes of Euphoria without Rue's story. It's one of the most repulsive things happening this season. So you know, safe robberies and all. it's just setting up a lot of narrative juice where I think it'd be hard to separate from that, even if you want to explore it in a post death state. But I mean, how would you feel about these last two episodes culminating in all of these perhaps disparate characters, following their own narrative arcs to fulfillment at like a mystical church like location and congregating together in a controversial finale. Is Michael Gucino available? We'll see to make me cry with some piano. It's a good question Lost finale to defend you always. Daniella wrote in Before this episode ai, but I was actually thinking about this a lot during the Rue and Jewel scene Danielle R in to say about this question we posed last week about objective versus subjective seasons of the show And Daniellea wrote, yes, there are dream sequences this season, but those sorts of abstract moments and those sort of abstract moments, but a way in which you can see the objective versus objective side of the season three is Rue's relationship with Jules In season one or two, we would have seen a romanticized version via Rue There were a lot of drug induced romanticizations of the relationships from Ru, but now she can't even get up and kiss her. So follow up on that I was thinking about that exactly U actually before I even read Daniella's email in the Rom and Juleles scene when Jules' like, kiding Like are you being serious right now? And I was like, yeah, if I think we were meant to read between the lines of Rue's romanticism in the previous seasons. and we certainly got some scenes like alone with Jules, like especially with Dominic Fke's character in season two where she was like raising some questions about this relationship But I don't think we would have gotten such a stark version of this reality check if we were still so much inside of Rue's fantasy. The Redditors seemed pretty down on Jules slapping Ru, but I was sort of like, I don't know. I hate what's happening with Jules this season. Yeah. I don' I don't like that and we can talk about that. But in terms of like Rue getting in Jules's face and telling her her entire life is horrible. A everything that Rue has put Jules through with her life decision. R. I was like, yeah, slop her. Why not? I care about Rue But in that moment, I didn't think Joel slappingher was like so out of pocket. I had no problem with it. My problems are more with, I would say the whiplash, not just from that sort of subjective narrativization of earlier seasons, which I agree with you kind of tracks here in the way both of these characters are acting. But coming off of last week Jules was imploring Rue want something to go after something and specifically her. and then Rud kind of does it and maybe in a way Jules doesn't want and that's not the right answer. You know what's so weird and I wonder if something was cut is from the context of their conversation here, it almost sounded like they did have some sort of like intensive sexual interaction. Oh they did. That's right R. Ruse boxers were in the room, you know? Oh, I guess so. Yeah. I just thought she was just like, changing her J Why don't we get to see that show? Why don't we get to see it Yeah, you know? I mean they did play with it in the c you're talking about where it's Ellis there. inststead of you're expecting Rue to be there. So she's challenging Rue to like do something about it. Rue does something about it. We don't get to see it, fine. We get to see plenty of other things, but not ruined Jewels having sex. okay, fine And then Jules is like, that didn't you did the thing that I asked you to and it doesn't really mean much to me. You did that thing that I asked you to and also all of this is in your head. Like our whole relationship, this imaginary version of it is in your head, which it kind of has win. But also last week, we were all there when she was literally saying these things and then they literally fucked afterwards. So I don't know what to make of all that Allegedly. Sut don't tell U I think that u Rue talking about wanting to have kids, like needing something outside of herself and wanting to have kids, I'm just like, this is not the way. There are many different reasons for people not to not to have kids. Reasons you should not have. As a father of children. I'm a father famamously and recently. I would say Ruue and habits like maybe fifty different reasons not to have kids. So it' just it is incredibly rich. I get Jules's frustration with all that. It's just the rest of it is so odd So one thing I want to say and I think the Juleles plotline this season has been frustrating for us just because we really like Juleles a lot. We love Hunter Schafer. Very much so. I am finding I am enjoying painting sequences because these are live painting sequences we're watching Hunter Schafer, the artist. and this is something that Sam Levinson talked about where he's like, I love Hunter as an artist, Hunter doesn't really practice her art, and so I kind of made her do it by doing these like live painting scenes and we've seen several of them now. and I think her art is really interesting and cool. provocativegeous Not just the you know, Dick Laden Serat like, but also that. But you know, it all has a distinctive style to it and it's really fun to watch her process So I just I enjoy that aspect while being frustrated by a lot of the absence of Jewels and the only person served less by this episode. Well Maddie. an underwhelming Maddie episode, especially given the like promise of the trailer for this episode was like a big Madtyy Alamo showdown, except they showed the entirety of it in the trailer. So we had already seen whatever their conversation was. pllus she's the thumbnail photo of this episode. So I was like, oh, we're gonna get a real Maddie episode and we did not. And then Nate, which is just sort of like, I would almost rather not cut to Nate at all in an episode then just sort of like run this tape back again and again, you know? I mean, all he has done this season is embarrass himself in front of the zoning council and lose a finger in a toe. Yeah get his ass beat I would say in terms of The flowers themselves just, I mean, we're reaching little shop of horrors level of like getting fucking like dominated by a plant. Are you trying to placate me by making a musicals reference right now? No. afterfter you ticked me on Friday with the musicals argument. I mean, if you w wantna revisit why Westide Story, the remake, the Spielberg remake is in fact quite good, I'm happy to do it here on Mike, but also if you wan to defer, that's fine too. Rob justs to defend Ancel L Gard his favorite. Not the case I think I think that's made is a real miss for me. Though I will say I have enjoyed the conversation where a lot of people point out like Hey, man, Nate was Free and easy with a gun in season two. Why doesn't he have a gun? Why isn't he defending himself And I like the pushback that I've seen. on the internet that yes, of course, Nate would use a gun to intimidate a teenage girl Yeah, but just sort of crumple in the face of real criminals. I don't find that contradictory at all. Completely adds up. Yeah, it's just he's not adding anything to the story. These scenes aren't interesting visually, like they're not they're just not contributing anything to the flow of the season granted clearly laying gunpowder so that when he now collides back with Cassie's part of the story something goes up in smoke, I just don't really know how that's all gonna pay off in a way that makes this feel worth it. Look at you gunpowder and smoke, just weaving your narrative here. Our listener, Tom Rote in with a well actually for Maddie's Jesus quote from last week's episode First of all, how how dare they? Matdie says Matdie said Jesus says, be in the world not of the world. And Tom, who is a religious professor, B to say that's actually a notion from the Muslim esoteric mystic sect known as Sufis. I haven't watched any further before writing this so if someone corrects her, please disregard. But no one did. So Tom's here to correct Maddie I trust Madd Oh. but we're a professive? you know U on the contract watch front, which we raised last week And your hope was that Cassie just never turned in her drill house contract A lot of our listeners pointed out that Cassie signed each contract with a different name that she signed Cassie Howard her maiden name to the hype house or the drill house contract. R And Cassie Jacobs, her married name to Maddie's contract So in terms of like, if there is in the last two episodes of the show, some sort of legal battle. U in which Cassie represents herself in court. Oh I legally blonde style. The pink suit down to whether or not one could get a perm wet at some point. I think the drill house contract because it takes a while to change your name legally It'ss it's a pain in the ass. It is a pain in the ass. And it takes a while. It doesn't happen just when you get married. So you're saying the drillhouse contract to you would be the more authentically binding document. It's her legal name right now Cassy Howard That is true I don't know how many of this works. I'm gonna to be honest with you. Ale arere you not allowed to put your maiden name on a document and still have it be binding even after your name is changed I'm sure you can, but if the question comes down to between two Betwixed. Betwixt And never the twins shall meet betwixt the two And we maybe cannot carbon date when exactly she signed the two, though we the viewers at home know she signed the drillhouse one first. We do come down to which one has her current legal name on it This is where I have to defer to Cassie Howard's last Jacob's attorney at Law and what her interpretation is of the truth. Please email us Maddie's number one boy at email d.. you're a legal expert. you're a lawyer. mean Um Rob might just disregard you the way that he did. just disregarded Profor scholar? That's all the emails I have. Anything else do you want to say on this sort of mailbag front? Let's get into it. I don't even know where to begin with this episode. I do the Bible. Okay. Episode six is called St Still and C, which is from the Bible The episode starts in the Alamo flashback, which we will get to in a second when they attend church Goown Moses is the you know, is a song that they're singing in church, right? So Moses gets sort of into the mix long before the Joshua tree lights on fire. Right. Betwixt the Joshua tree fire Yeah. and the church scene a lot happens. This line stand stillill and see, comes from Exodus. is Moses' book if if you must know. I mean, that's the big thing before the tree. you know, they got they got to exodise before they can see it before they start getting divine messages. I was expecting standstill and C to be in reference to the burning bush, but it is not Here's the quote, and Moses said to the people, Do not be afraid, St still and see the salvation of the Lord, which He will accomplish for you today. For the Egyptians who you see today, you shall see again no more forever. The Lord will fight for you and you shall hold your peace. And so it is right before the parting of the Red Sea.ight this not Burning Bush time. This is partying the Red Sea time from the Bible that Rue is listening to, narrated by Michael York in the car is from Genesis And God saw the wickedness of the man was great in the earth and every imagination of thoughts of his heart was only evil continuually. This happens right before sending the flood. So these are two God based Bible moments, floods, and parting of the Red Sea. Quick pause before we go deeper. You're telling me Rue's still on Genesis? Yeah. She hasn't made out of Genesis yet. No There's a lot of book left. There's a lot of games Noah. Like who's gotten to Noah. Clearly we knew that she wasn't to Jesus. You know, theres there's a lot to go voicing Noah in this whole starcast recording of the Bible. If there's a wipe it all out scenario coming U for Euphoria. Wh's the who's the Noah? Who gets to survive? Oh man Sidneyweeney. Team Lexy of the Howard. I'm not saying who should. I'm saying if there were Wh's the cock If there was a flood event andfore it gets rebooted around one character. I don't see based on everything we've seen this season, how it wouldn't be Cassie. I think should be mady. How dare you not nominate your girl? I'm not saying what I want. I'm saying what I believe to be true This is my standstone scene moment. You know like I am believing in the vision of the show that has been laid before me. and that is unfortunately for me, not a Maddie Forward show all the time. But in terms of like who's likely to come back from for Euphoria season four, is it Syidney Sweeney or is it Alexa Demmi I don't know why Alex Dem isn't in everything. So clearly there is a mystical power in the universe I don't comprehend. Stand still and say, Rob. But Cydney Sweeney does feel like she's so game for the show. She feels Like more involved and more invested in the greater Euphoria project than basically any other performer on screen. So I think she probably would if it were to continue on. She is one of the few actors giving interviews after the credits roll on the episodes, that's true. Okay. If you have a different nominee for the NoA of the mass flood event that might come for Euphoria TV it' spotifyot Alamo Cold open, Daniiell Deadweiler, I have some notes. This is not what I want Danille Dead Weeiler doing. I don't I don't mind the idea of this coold open because you know, we enjoyed the sort of flashback to people's character childhoods that we got in previous seasons. We really, really liked that. Yes. Cassie one was really good. The Nate one was really good. like they're all of them are really good.. U I love the coww. Yeah. The cow one really got to me. So se two starts season two starts with like this Fz's Grandma flashback sequence. So in terms of like, Sam Levinson wanting to make like a sort of seventies exploitation style sequ he's already done that in season two and I actually really quite liked that the introduction of Ashtreay and all that sort of stuff like that This I don't feel like taught me anything about Alamo. other than Um quote someone on Redd. his mom was a bitch who played him and he made sure he never got played by a bitch again. That's that's like, I don't think that'soting Redd. That's literally quoting the episode. Right. So like, well, that the second part is. So like, so Did you feel like this the character, how did you feel about it? Not exactly because I would say the only thing it really deepened about Alamo is this idea of All the times we've seen him within the season within this episode just go from zero to one hundred at the idea of getting played by somebody I would just argue that most drug dealers are probably that way to begin with or arms dealers or people work in any kind of criminal underground They don't need an edible sort of. You don't want to be made the fool of. Does he need a like mommy issues complex that then leads him to put an imitation of his mom's own leg on top of his strip club. to resolve something. I'm sure he doesn't need to work it out. I'm sure it's fine I don't know that we entirely needed that. That sounds therapeutic. It sounds like like a nice arts and crafts project, right? You just like, really process your issues through like mask paper mache. I was about to say, I think he hand sculpted it. Yeah ye yeah U I'm with you on Danale Deadweiler too. Like she is I love her much. Immense respect for her as a performer. And I would say specifically the tempestuous characters that she can play, where they just have all of this like internal something and you're trying to figure out what the hell is going on. eleven reference? I mean, we do remember damage on this show You know, this is this is who we are. Yeah. But like I would have loved to see more of that kind of internality from her character. In instead, she's like It's an interesting framing of a story, right of this idea of the long con that she's playing. The way it manifests is she's just kind of like a one note tempress who's here to like a la carte her life. like I want the money from this guy and I want to live with this guy and I want to live in that city. And to helpll with my son and what he wants. Something that we've noted that Sam Levinson does and sometimes to G effect and sometimes, you know, Lessa or whatever is he's a great borrower of other texts And what is true about this story, Alamo's backstory, is pretty closely airlifted from the book Pimp by Iceberg Slim, which is like an autobiography of a pimp. And then this is like the story of his childhood that his mom like was with a godfaring man who treated her well and stuff like that. and then she and the only time in his life when Icebergs Limb was happy and then she like ripped him away into an abusive relationship and stuff like that. So that is seemingly the inspo. And I think I believe Sam Levinson mentions at least Icebergs Limb in the post credit sort of discussion. that n to where he lifted it from. I really wanted to like this more. I just think Danielle Deadweiler is so talented and this is just not, you know, what I would use her for accidently. It's like fine enough, but again, did not transform the story or the characters in the way that some of the other flashbacks did. And frankly, I'm not sure I ever quite recovered from the fact that his given name is actually Alamo. Even as a Texas guy Dave you never ever met an Alamo? Never met a single alamo. Okay It's not just as st strrike as a thing you would do Name a child Alamo. I guess somebody did Memorable at least. Clearly. And we talked earlier this season about like, did he concoct it just so he could do remember the Alamo style gags like he literally did in the season. but I guess it was just in the stars for him the whole time. Right. But he was always loved cowboys and there's a lot of like there's a Yeah. Well that's nominatively deterministic for sure. If you name your kid Alamo Like he's gonna wear like a raccoon skin hat on his head at some point. That's just a given. I guess so. Maddie in the club What do you want to say about it? This is one where I would have almost preferred us having a conversation about this scene not having access to the post game interview clips from the cast because the way Alexa Demy talks about this scene is like irl coming together in their power? Yeah. That was news to me. Sure. Was that apparent to you in the execution of what this scene was? I thought we were just doing a cool like workers unite moment for Maddie.ust like workers rights, they deserve time off. What the what are the, you know, the labor laws inside St I guess that is women coming together. Yeah. she's standing up. Sure But the rest of it is a fun girly link up is how Alexa Damy described. I guess it's some of that. It's like, you know This is a club that's in need of art direction as it relates to turning to get into an Instagram mobile presence. Maddie has a vision. It is saloon doors and I guess like a coyote ugly kind of aesthetic It see it playing online. I just don't know that this was like the girl power moment that was suggested in the commentary. You wish they had gotten Piper Perbo, a star of Coyote Ugly to be in season three of Eu fouria. Do you think she's available? She's quite a Well then why not? They did getaronstone. Saronstone is here. Cassie on the set of LA Kights and Lexi's issue with that. despite the fact that she memorized all of her lines very closely. triggered by this honeyoon phrase, even though presumably it it was in her st the script. Yeah But she gets triggered. She doesn't know what's real and what's not and she starts, you know, dissociating to a certain degree and improvising Dylan Reed Shout at Her Gd. L improvising with her was genuinely I thought one of the funniest moments the Jo so. No woman deserves to get hit. profound brave grave moment. I actually did find Dylen to be quite a generous in part first. You know, he really rolled with the punches. He really invested in Cassie's story and And I want to give Cassie duke credit, you know, like tapping into something deep and dark and unresolved. Is that not just great acting? Is that not the stuff that great performance is made of? Okay, so it's art when Cassie does of it when Alamo crafts a giant paper mache replica of his mom's. That's also art I just think they both need therapy. but it can also be ar. Everyone on Euphoria needs therapy Um Janna to O'ceana, the George Serw of the LA Soap. So we love to see her here Lxy Yeah I do not blame her for calling Cassie out in front of Sharon Stone What has Cassie ever done for Lexi in her entire life? Nothing. So why should Lexi support Cassie in any kind of way I just thought this was the kind of pod where women support women. I thought we just established that. Is that not what we're doing here I support Lexi. I did think look the bar has been quite low for Lexi this season. I thought this was among the better Lexi stuff that we've gotten. Yeah. both in terms of having actual things to do and also just like the pure disappointment on Mod Apatau's face when Cassie does strike the deal to become a regular. Yeah. There's just some great physical acting. I think Overall, the idea of Lexi fighting for something this hard and maybe not quite understanding the opportunity that is in front of her to leverage Cassie as much as Cassie leverages her is like a little blind to circumstance in a way that I wouldn't expect of Lexi, but here we are. That is an email that we got from front of the pod, Matt Medovich, who was like, why isn't Lexi using Cassie here to boost her career that she does. She will be. In the writer's room, I did not freezeray Mahoney my way through all of the posted notes that were up on the breakup board Behind Lexi in the writers's room scene, there is a quote from Green Bay Packers's head coach Vince Lombardi. I did know was a sports guy And the quote is this There is no room for second place. There's only one place in my game and that's first place. So a profound Lombardiism is on the wall of this writer'som. LA Kights. Yeah What is the first place they're striving for Um, in the ratings, I guess place in provocative enttertainment. Well, that's already settled. Euphoria's got a baby. First place in George Sarat mentions in an LA. so alsoso tough competition. What do you hope happens for this? Do you hope that Lexi writes a great episode of LA Kights that in which Cassie dies. I kind of do. Yeah. I would love to see that I would love for Cassie to get a huge elaborate death scene that then she has to act out like Uh you know, Babylon style and repetition over and over and over to increasing insanity. That is something I wouldd be interested in seeing. How muchrou trouble is Cassie in? She has deleted the only Fans account., which probablyably vvoid some like agreement in the contract with Maddie. I would think for sure For a minimum, just the income stream that Maddie relies on And that's the other thing is like, you know, the finger of the box, like what's in the box,'s we know it is a finger, It's a finger. Yeah She's not gonna to make the kind of money she needs to make on LA Kights sorry, hate to break it to all you wantan to be Starless out there, but she's not going to be making only fans money. as a, you know, bit player on LA Kights So she's not going to be bringing in the money she needs to be bringing in. She screwed over Maddie in some way Um That historically has gone very well for her what you know How's it going pan out, Rob? do you have any predictions? I mean, I don't think it's an accident that in the big cooyote ugly photos shoot, it is Cassie with the snake posing, getting wrapped up, it sizing her up in its way. and her as a character in particular who would be oblivious to basically everyone's actual motivations would not shock me whatsoever if all of this was just like Maddie playing with Cassie in the first place and as soon as she is angered becomes a whole different beast as a result. Well, because Maddie, unlike Lexi is like, I know what I can use this woman for. Interesting. And Cassie has welcomed Maddie into her symbolic bed. How far can we twist this thing? It's a great question. The snake question is something that's interesting to me because I know I told you that I talked to some of the department heads and I was asking about the snake. and I believe it was the production designer was telling me sort of, it was someone's idea. The way the snake wound up on set was not sort of a big plot based reason. It was like somebody's idea. Okay. And so we've been calling itort of check off snake, expecting that it's going to strangle or eat somebody. Yes. And then we get seemingly. and that's not to say that it wasn't placed on set and then Sam Levinson's like, I know. We'll have it party somebody. And certainly he and Sam Levinson told me this speech that gives in this episode was sort of written the last moment, the speech about the dancer and the snake. Yes. And as we discussed before we started recording, that is a very famous like urban legend story, the story of Python who refuses to eat, and then the vet's like, it's sizing you up to eat you, young lady or whatever the case may be. that is That's just an urban legend that was turned into. I thought like a pretty I don't know. anything Bishop does, I have. So like whatever. but I don't know if this snake is going to be a plot payoff or just this metaphorical payoff that you're talking about. Right. So I think it's more of the idea. And clearly there are characters all throughout the story who are working with weird motivations. I don't know if Rue is the rat or the snake or kind of both Again, we've been circling around that all season. I have no idea which one at this point. The rat is dangled in front of her face. she dead She might be dead. Yeah I simply don't believe it. but you know, maybe it is a Jacobs Ladder scenario. Maybe that's something we have to investigate over the back part of the season Um, we love Abardo. fect man. Historically we do. All newews Sundays at night exclusively on AMC and AMC plus. I am vum. st. I'm a rockstone now Anan Rice's Imortal Universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history. Thousands of fans l you. I want millions It's my de This is the Vampire Listot, All new Sundays at nine exclusively on AMC and AMC pllus, stream now. This episode is brought to you by Accenture When your advertising operations fall out of sync, campaigns slow down, insightes get buried, and opportunities get missed. That's why Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result, less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most To learn more, check out accccenture.ot com slash Spotify This episode is brought to by Netflix. The T mobile homeome runun derb is right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and off sports baseballs Biggest sluggers along with some legendary Announcers, Puhos, Rizo, Bs, Sabbathia L Duncin Yeah M Pence, Matt Fast Kurzian, a whole bunch of people And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact You swing History. I'm interested this is who Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Park In Philly, watch the T mobile H rununs Derb be live on Netflix Monday, july thirteenth at eight PM Eastern five PM Pacific The Fe and Wayne Love story. That is what it is, isn't it Just a charming love story for the ages This is a fascinating thing. I will say I think the second biggest laugh in the room when we were watching was when he plunked that SS hat that hat on her hook and. Some people fall in love harder than others, Joe, but there's like wear an SS hat, get a a tramp stamp. like that is a level of down horrendous that I don't think many people have ever experienced in their lives or will Are you regretting that it's not Sastika st Gail note? It was It was right there for the taking. It really was. U Actually that one's probably taken. Really fucking stuff. All right. we were Looking closely at the various bedside reading material that Wayne has. Yeah. he's got Helter Skelter, book about Charles Manson And then he has a book that we're not going to say the full title of, nor should we Gun blank manifesto, edited by Hollister Cop, you can ruin your own search history if you want to look. Subtitle Etertainment for the Armed Sociopath I'm going to read this description even though we debated whether or not we should The Gun Blank Manifesto was lovingly and sincerely devoted to guns, gun play, gun culture, gun counter culture, gun rights, gun art, gun porn, and Youo It was also one of the most psychotically inspired literary creatures to emerge from the Back lagoon of Zendom, training its sights On an open range of politically correct targets and combining irresponsibly over the top polemics with unapologetically incisive gonza reportage for an effect that was as smart as it was funny, as it was irreverent. Does Wayne strike you as smart as it was funny as it was airreverent kind of guy? or do you think he just saw Gun and the slur that's below it on the book? and he was like, that's for me. I think it was probably that simple orr maybe like a white elephant gift or something But I also just want to say, if you're responsible with the publication of this book, we here at the Prestige TV podcast give you full permission to use Joanna's full read of that blurb and all of your promotional materials. And frankly, I'd love to see it out in the world. And Rob would like to attend a Nazi white elephant party. Not what I said All right, what do you want tona say about Fanwade that we have not already? I just like Okaykay, first I' not rooting for these I amm not rooting for these crazy kids. I first I had a question. S. Did Rue not already tell everyone about Feaye when she saw Feay's lips on the surveillance footage? I guess she hadn't because that's when Alma was like, shouldhn't you have recognized the voices? I could be going crazy, but I thought I remembered a line at the end of episode of She' like announcing her recognition of this person, mayaybe not naming Fey, but like if you say, Hey, I know who that is, maybe she's like she works for Laurie.. And then to later say She's fy, I've got her number. Yeah I can emotionally blackmail her by mentioning our friend who's in prison and get her to do this for me despite her enchanting love story with a Nazi Maybe it is enchanting, you know They did watch Frey Woman together. They they have had some nice moments He's quite a Nazi. Is anything going to come the fact that these are fake drugs that they've stolen and you know caused fake extreme gastrointestrial distress? She was just chugging the dough on the coffee table? that Is that going come to fruition somehow? I think look Faake clearly tried to warn him. Obviously it has to come to fruition. And frankly, I would watch a whole like spinoff episode or standalone Fe episode in which she goes out in the world and is constantly trying to tell people the truth about things, but people don't take her seriously and leading into a bunch of like Mr. Bean style theatrics as a result. I was okay, so maybe Fe is your spinoff candidate. I was hoping you were asking for a like Nazi in gastrointestinal distress episode. Well, as we learned, Fey is only kind of a Nazi.. Is that? I got nothing you can beat. Rob, I feel like once you've got the swastikas it's really a binary situation. It's really all in. there's no hal swastikas. Joanna speaks from Eience. Okay What a great episode of I guess this is Ru. Zendaya, guess what? Great actress. Also, guess what? She's alive Maybe. Oh I guess maybe I spoke too soon Maybe. She was not killed by pololo mallet. presumably not killed by pololo Mallet, though I did laugh when he like nudged her head at one point with the pololo mallet. That was pretty great Um, Okay, listen. Um, the elevator scene. the scen both the phone call with her mom and then just sort of the reflection afterwards. the comedy of her buried up to her neck on the phone was very fun O speaker phone Most importantly, sliding down in her in her seat during the Laureate Alabo confrontation with a real like face. All very good. funny, emotional alsoly. Um I was a little, uh surprised by the fact that like when we were shown So much of that conversation Rue was having with her mom and just Rue's side of it. I was like, okay, they couldn't get Nka King back, I guess. Yeah. She's not going to be at the season, but then she was there So I was curious why they didn't show that in the after of the episode She said, know what Rus side of the conversation was that I was supposed to be reacting. clearly. And this is what a lot of the actors have said about the season of Euphoria is they were only given their scenes or their sides from their scenes or whatever. So they were kept in the dark but the larger shape of the season. So I don't know. it just struck me as very odd to watch this to watch Rue for almost all this conversation and then to switch to Leslie on the other side of the phone. Well, let's let me start with the conversation part first because I want to give it due credit. I think First of all, Rue kind of like crying and smiling, leaning on the pew. Yeah will be one of the visuals that I remember from this season. It's going to be one of the things that really jump out in my memory, in my grasp of what the season was and was about I also think the conversation from Rue's side of it is shot beautifully, I think immaculately well acted as far as Zenday as part of it. especially the part where the camera is sort of like coming up behind or like right as if someone was like There's just this menace. to the camera coming up behind her as if someone was gonna like walk in and just sort of like shoot her in the head at church or something like that when and then it just like pulls around in front of her. So there's no one walking up behind her, but there is just this sense of like menace and doom looming ofu here at the end of the season. And especially like as she goes through this speech, which I do think hits quite hard about her need for redemption and salvation and kind of like you're grasping at Just the idea that a future could be ahead of her.. All of this st, I think works really, really well And then we get the panta Leslie, who I was like Again, inexplicable why that's there. because if you're going to show the one sideided part of the conversation, Fz style Just do it.. showing Leslie at the end to say one line and disappear. It felt almost as if the only reason she's there is so that later when Bishop threatens her mom, it's like, oh We just saw her mom. Right. Remember her interestnteresting What's interesting to me about that Bishop interaction is Alamo had already sort of dropped that threreat in the previous episode when he was sort of describing Rue's home. You know, in the diner scene with Maddie, he was just sort of like, I didn't grew up in a nice place like Rue grew up on a cul de sac, like being very specific of like, I know where your family lives. Y. it's very I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by Rueuse, like inability to hold on to the thing, but like for Rue to be so sort of like shocked and appalled and dismayed that Bishop talked her mom I's like Alm already intimated that this was happening, that your family was being threatened and something like that Do you think in talking to Leslie Bishop asked at any point Have you been calling your daughter a ton because she's been taking calls from mom on her phone nonstopuff. Like do you think he's been like, Hey, when's the last time you Talk to Rue. She's doing really well likeike You know how much does Bishop know, I guess is the question we are always asking ourselves? I presume that character knows a lot all the time. Yeah. and it's kind of several moves ahead, maybe not of the poker game, but of a lot of other things. And so I mean, we kicked around the idea of like could Bishop also be an informant, right? And it's like certainly I think when he brings up her mom, you're meant to wonder that, L is he alluding to the calls to her fake mom? I guess Since he like sawed someone up and fed them to pigs in last week' epode, I'm kind of out on a secretly a DEA agent. But maybe how far do Donny Braskco his way this? I don't know. But maybe there's a third way where he is like plotting his way out with a big bag of money or whatever and planing to flip Alamo at the opportunistic time and knows kind of what Ru is up to more than he lets on I'm glad yourought the DA. I'm always glad when you bring up the DA, but I'm glad you brought the DA because that was another sort of like doom moment looming over the episode when the DA says, we're almost there. stay sharp. I'm like I don't think this is just way too many of those lines for Rue to go back to the ch. Yeah, please. is what you want to talk. I did think this was another interesting character beat for Rue where she talks so much in this moment about starting over and the want for a new life. And that's kind of the theme of her conversation with Jules too. But I think it's interesting that her imagination can kind of like only go so far as to want to start over by grabbing onto this person she grew up with in Jewels. It's like her vision of a future is like let me Try to hold on to this one good thing. when I think what she needs more than anything is like move the fuck away from all of these people and all of these places and start somewhere completely fresh And I don't know that she's ever going to get to that point. One of the things she was looking at in the church was the like portable ten commommandments that family in Texas gave to her and their address was scrawled on the bottom of the Th commommandments. So is there a possibility that rather than dying or she's already done R goes and joins the sort of like Amish fararm and like cows at the end of the season. It did have a certain appeal whichich is places with the eldest daughter who wants to leave and Drew's just like I'm going to be mking cows now. Well, first of all, we can't just like will that poor daughter into a life she couldn't begin to understand. N What you want? You're already in Brownsville just cross the border, you know? Therehing more romantic than getting an SS hat dropped on top of your head and being told that you shouldn't be a mule anymore It wants to take her away from this crazy life. What else do you want to say about Rue in this episode? Can we circle back to the larger Alamo Lori standoff in which Ru is slinking into the couch and slowly evaporating? I had a bunch of different kind of sensations during like in watching this. For one, I love the setup. I love the like loading the dramatic loading of the guns, the kind of like mounting of their respective horses There's a shot of Feay in the doorway as the Nazi, et cetera all go off. this's like very the searchers. like this like silhouetted doorway shot that is clearly evocative in that way Then they get there And it's like everyone's like you know, it's classic standoff kind of format, Ru is in the middle. Everyone's holding their holsters. And I just could not escape the feeling that I do not understand what Laori as a character is doing within this season. other than you need this narrative counterposition I just was so much more interested in Laori when she was queen of her own little hill versus like a feuding warlord opposite Alamo. I mean, how have you felt about their dynamic? Well, do you think you notorious Bird lover Rob Mahoney just really missed that that bird. I pro little guy. and anti snake, I want to say for the record. I I'm really pro snake. You're pro snake. Yeah. Would you sleep in the bed with the Python No then put youroney where your mouth. Do you just sleep in bed with a bird? Wh don'tust birds either. We've all been hitchcocked too much. We simply can't. U we had snakes like in our as like our classroom pets growing up, I really liked likeike a garter snake. Corn snakes. Yeah stuff like that. Yeah notothing Python level. No But you know, notothing that could suocate you sure U Laurie, what is Laurie up to? Well, I was wondering if when when they raised a whole question about the ambulance operation if it would cause a light bulb to go off over Rue's head about Angel and what happened with Angel You know, and Almost pretending that this is for like plastic surgery when we think it's for transporting organs. saying it's like it's the shepherd for BBLs. you know,'s this is not how this works But like Ruse remains clueless At the end of the day about what happened with and that wasn't your question Q questestions is what's going on?. No, we can talk about Route too. I want to talk about all of it. Questions what's going on with Laurie and I don't know because she does not seem to have the upper hand at any moment inside of this confrontation Um, you know, she robbed him, but they know she robbed him. And so, you know, Um I don't know. I dont Whole feuding drugs. Lord thing It remind me a lot when you and I were talking about Daredevil when you came on House of Rr, and you were talking about the use of Jessica Jones in a certain scene and you were like frustrated that Jessica Jones, the character was being used as like dull exposition machine and Matthew Lillard, we love him, but was like getting to do all the quipping. Yeah. And that's how he felt about watching Zedea in that scene as a passenger in that scene between Laorurie and Alamo. Like was her slinking down the couch? with her like expression, very funny. yes. But I was like, there's a lot of Rue in this episode. and there's a lot of great character tet character stuff. The church stuff is really good. The jewel stuff is good. But I was like, but I'm wildly uninterested in watching her be the passenger of somebody else's. Someone else is driving the action inside of the Alamo and Laurie feud. is just sort of ught up in the middle it, again and again, and that is not what I want for Rue as a character. I think there's also the acknowledgement too that all of that stuff can be true. and yet narratively you understand why Rue kind of benefits from being in the background. Like she is taping this conversation. She's like trying to be invisible. Totally, But is it interesting to watch Right one of the most interesting character, onene of the best and most well rounded characters on the show subsumed by these other two people who just don't hold the screen as well. And there have been other times where Rue as a character, as the sort of like observer narrator narrator type of character has watched like Cassie and Maddie or you know whatever the case may be, but that was like we were all just sort of related to what was going on there. And the Alamo and Laurie stuff has not been a nearly as successful for me. I don't think so. Really the show still relies on having onene of a couple characters as a crucial counterpoint in every scene that really like grabs you. and Rue is one of them. and Maddie is one of them. And I think maybe even at times Cassie can be one of them deffinitely is one of them, you know. But having like really the heavyweight moment of this feel like it's Lauri and Alamo, I just don't think Alamo has been built up as a character to warrant that even with the flashback in this episode. And I don't think Lauri ever was that or that was ever her best purpose within this story This We haven't really given our sort of like broad strokes thoughts on this episode. I think this is maybe my least favorite episode of this season so far. It's just so unwieldy Yeah. and it is all over the place. And to the extent that it hits for me at all, I think it's mostly Zendaya oriented stuff Those things are so good, I'm compelled to kind of hold them tightly. Yeah, but the rest of it is sprawling, not necessarily in a great way. Right. Like even like the Cassie stuff in last week's episode. was audaciously fun in a way. L even if it wasn't my favorite thing that I'd seen, I was just sort of like they really went for something, they really did something. And here I don't even have that sort of juice to enjoy, but Zendaya The Rusf in the church I'm hoping, you know, next week we get more stuff with her mom. All of that stuff is really good. And this is one area where the need to have kind of these backburner storylines, I think works against the show a little bit. right? We already talked about how we kind of would prefer that you don't even get the Nate check in within this episode. It doesn't really offer anything to the structure of the story other than remind us that he's still out there being threatened by henchmen But if you take him out thenen you kind of lose sight of him for a moment in the story. You need to because his finger is there. I mean that his finger shows up in a box and you're like, Ohh yeah, Nate, he's in physical literal physical danger. I think you could say that about or five scenes in this episode, where just if you just kind of streamlined it and focused it even more on what's working, I think it wouldn't feel quite this way Anything else you want to say about this episode. I guess I do want to talk about what the plans are here because I'm a little confused at what's being established between these various gangs on what they're trying to accomplish. Like we have Lauri's pitch, right, whichich is that she wants Alamo and company really Rue is kind of the one who's deputized she wants deputized to do it to drive the ambulance for like one last big run with all these drugs, right? Like that's the plan that is pitched Alamo feels compelled to do it because he wants to get all his stuff back. Laurie who gave Rue, a suitcase full of drugs and that went very poorly is like, I know, let's give her an ambulance full of drugs.. and that'll be fine. Well, the only reason I'm a little more lenient on that perspective is that we get this illusion by the Nazi dude T Fe that they're like about to pull over one big thing on Alamo and he doesn't see it coming Do we have any inclination as far as like what that is within this plan to take the truck full of drugs and not share it with him in any way. But aren't they not intending to share with him? I think they are intending to share it with him.. There has to be some sort of split. Otherwise why would he I thought the split was you get your stuff that we already stole from you back. Right. You get your you get your stuff back, we get all these new drugs hustled across the border. In theory, everyone wins because we're basically holding you hostage for your own drugs, which as we said, are not drugs. Our laxatives. among other things Um you know, this is a great question, Rob and thank you so much for asking it. I don't know the inner workings into the minds of a Nazi unfortunately, so I can't answer it. I appreciate that about you most of all. And I guess Rue's plan and the DEA's plan within all of this is for Laorie and Almo to get pinched in the process of executing this plan that may or may not benefit or not benefit both of them. Yeah pinched is definitely the the modern terminology that here. We like to keep our finger on the. I just like that we're on top of everything that's going on in the show. We definitely have a very good handle on the level of going on. All right, anythingthing else you want to say? I do have one final shout out. I think it's very important. I don't wantan to skirt over it. Alexander the locksmith. I just thought did impecable work in this episode. Okay, the three D printing re printing and just like looking real exasperated as he does it. J like just the huffing and puffing, like, I'm gonna need an hour We need an excuse to get ro to the church for an hour. and I'm glad that Alexander was here to do it. I thought he looked resplendent to his like very bizarre looking shirt, but you know what, it fit the character. I feel like this is so The place that I just moved into has a here in LA has a, I guess, a hundred year old door It's got like a very I've got a lot of questions about the framing of that, but continue. Well it's like it's a craftsan and like the house itself has been updated, but they kept the original. kept the original. And it's like, very old and very cool and kind of like warped and stuff like that, but like really beautiful. And it's got this like very finicky like latch thing that kind of falls out sometimes. And so my landlord's like, we have a door guy. And he was like, he's eccentric. And like let me stop you. Are any door guysy is not eccentric? question about the locksmith. like I'm like they have a very specific set of skills. He's a very like he knows how to fix the hundred year old doors that are on various craftsmen in Los Angeles. so he can be eccentric as he wants to be. We're the chat right now and we're trying to figure out a time For him to come over and like fix the lash on the door. I love that that it's getting fixed for you. I also just believe firmly in my heart that if you are one of these door specialists, if you're a specialist in ingress or reggress. Yeah, you get to be as eccentric as you want. You get to follow your heart, whatever weird paths it go. And I feel like this locksmith has taken that prompt to heart, you know? They do seem like a strange sword. When're are going to get a locksmith oriented show. they have a lot of power Um Don't give away free ideas right? Dexter, but a locksmith. You know, L there's a lot of things we could do here Are we murdering early edition, but a locksmith Murdering people with the locks? Well you gotta break into their place, Nade Jacob style and wait for them. Okay, you know, presumably. Great. I've never done it. Coming to you on MDM two Joanna in twenty twenty eight. A locksmith but makes it makeake it Dexter. Great. Okaykay Anything else you want to say? That's good. really. That's enough. Happy Sunday. nextext Sunday, we will be back with another Euphoria check in and then it'll be the finale One of them were threatening to broadcast live. Rob has not agreed to it yet, but we're getting cl. We're getting close couldould be the finale. The pitch needs to be made. We got some compensation. I don't know. You don't want to wade through the waters of black exploitation and Nazis gun blank slur manifestos and all these other things live beamed out to YouTube without any cuts. Look, the people out there don't know how many of your slurs we have to edit out of this podcast. So how many times I dumped tea on myself. Thank you notet. Nal Grady.