Final Thoughts and Future Projects

Heat up your fourourth of July at the Home Depot with our wide variety of grills under three hundred dollars and make every gathering one to remember. Give your outdoor space a glow up. Whatever your budget is, with savings on seasonal plants starting at five dollars. With the grill fired up and your backyard set to perfection, you'll be able to invite friends and family over to kick off the party Start celebrating with low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot. Prices may vary h stor exisions the price see Home Depot com priceash for details This summer, Prime Video takes you back before legally blonde, before law school and into the world of Elle Woods in high school. Set in nineteen ninety five, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is until her family moves from Belair to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, nineties nostalgia, and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one thing Law school was hard. High school was harder. From the world of legally blonde, watch Al, a new original series only on Prime videoide july first Hello, welelcome to a very special live episode of the Fresst TV podcast. I'm Joanah Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney. And the Euphoria finale has happened to us and to all of you here on this Sunday evening. N to Snowflake. Oh, no, Snowflake's fine. Well, his eyes were shildted. Listen, spoilers for the Euphoria finale, let's just get that out of the way. Yeah. And we're gonna break down the episode, not like sort of beat by beat, but give our more instant reaction. We are that's audio coming out of my own laptop. That's how you can tell we're live You can send us questions in the YouTube chat. If you want to, those we will address those sort of at the end of this episode. Rob, how are you feeling Not great. I thought this was a deeply strange and mostly pretty bad finale. Right Of a show that I quite like and I really wanted to be here in the end in a place of some kind of peace. and I gotta say, I just am not. There's no peace in the valley for Robahoney. Okay. This is the Pressy TV podcast feed. We are covering Widows Bay and Cape Fear coming up and this is us wrapping up Euphoria. and I also feel pretty bad. Yeah U But I do want to say this I'm just gonna give you a road map of when I cried while watching these upploades. When Ru reached her mom, yes Okay When Ali found her When Jules' painting Rou Um A silent performance from Hunter Schafer, but nonetheless, an impactful one. Art is speech. When Lexi was talking about Rue, I thought M Apitau was really good. in that moment And then when Ali called her his daughter when he got to the homestead., that hardly got me. So there there is Really good stuff inside of this finale. like I think so. I agree. I think there's some really, really effective, impactful stuff. And then there is just a lot around it that I think was much less successful. What do you feel like the smartest thing this finale did? I think the smartest thing is to make it so that Rue delivers Ali some kind of peace rather than the other way around.re set up through all the seasons of Euphoria. Br try to get her life in order, having like Ali's voice in her ear at various points, trying to set her straight And that it's her guidance that brings Ali to the homestead and to get some kind of closure I actually found that to be really powerful. How All the elements of how we got there didn't quite work for me, but look, if we're gonna to set up the Moses framing here of who gets delivered to the Pomised Land and who doesn't and rue is Moses At least we follow through on it. Yeah, we'll circle back to some of the Moses imagery here, but For me, it was anchoring a Sali's emotional journey. So it's very similar. Like the way they used Cman Domingo, not all of it. because I I inter my next question is like what is the dumbest thing this finale did? And I think The amount of time we spent on the Nazi shoota at the beginning and then the Strip cllub shoota at the end. I think was a misfire for me. At least in theri strip club, we had Maddie there, who I like a lot ofie there. Right, not actively doing anything. Not a thing. And then Ollie there, you know, so Coleman Domingo being there is impactful to me. but there was just so much distraction around what could have been a very strong emotional core of this episode, which is Coleman Domingo. What did you think the dumbest thing this episode did was? First of all, I do completely agree with you on Coleman Domingo and his emotion and performance within this episode Some of what he's asked to do is like just give a PSA about fentanyl. Yeah. and I think some of that messaging and tone, while well intended, I want to get into it, I don't want to be glib about this part of it because you can tell this is a very emotional story. that Sam Levinson and the people who make you fory are trying to convey notot least not least of all because of like their proximity to this kind of death and this kind of overdose withher it's cloud, right? Like that is not something you just wantan to gloss over. That's not something you want to joke about It is very strange though, to take a show like Euphoria into this like almost direct to camera messaging about black and white and good and evil and just like I mean, hitting everything so hard in the end I just found so odd We talked about this a little bit last week, you know, when I said that hearing some of the things that Alise said I had literally heard come out of Sam Levinson's mouth and once again, like in my notes, I wrote this is Sam on his pulpit, right? Like And he's preaching something. And again, I willll say the same thing I said last week, which is like I understand. If he's like, here's the Euphoria, potentially serious finale, but certainly, you know A season finale of a show that no longer stars Nandea Y or Jacob Lordi I'm going to say what I need to say about fentanyl I agree with you. Like I understand the impulse to do it. I don't know that I think it was artistically interesting at all, but like I understand the very human impulse to be, here is my platform. I'm going to use it. I want to help people and instruct people. And I will say, you know, we watch the sort of like behind the scenes that they aired after the episode. and Sam Levinson talking about how You know, he was an addict when he was younger Yeah. and when he was younger, fentanyl was not a thing. And he said, if fentanyl had been on the market when I was younger, I think I would have died. Yes. You know. And there's another interview with Sam over on Esquire again this week with my Paula Anthony Bresidentan where he is talking about You know When I was an addict, or he's, you know, you're perpetually an addict, but when he was using That it wasn't one single dumb move and you're dumb as much as it is now now. Yeah And so again, I really understand that impulse to want to talk about it, but I think it would have been artistically more interesting as we're watching Jules make this painting to sort of give it to us in an art form rather than in a just saying the thing form. Exactly. You know. I think it makes a lot of sense for this story and we were primed all season to understand that Rue's story is probably not going to end super well. Yeah. that The stories of addicts is a story of struggle and oftent times, of relapse, of falling it back into bad habits and self destructive spirals of ending up in a book like Ali's book,? Like there's so many tragic ends here and so much tragic potential. that that was probably what was going to happen to Rue. So like that part of it is fine for me. I'm actually kind of I glad that that's the ending. Yeah. like N not that I'm glad that Rue die, but I think it's an honest ending for this character. Eespecially for a character who spend so much time running and running and running from every problem and just to like basically run out of road and it just it finally caught up to her in the end. like that does feel completely honest to Rue and the story that Eufor has been trying to tell. I just think, yeah, all the messaging by the end, especially through Ali and his voice is so much like not in the DNA of the show to begin with. When you contrast season one to now, not only are they different shows tonally and structurally in terms of genres, It really feels more than ever. L they had to invent a whole 'nher show just to get to this end pointoint. and I'm just like not buying it. and it's also not really what I signed up for I do think that the ru ending I think there's an elegance in the design of this very tragic ending for this character where You know? Alamo intelligently withith a classic slide of hand, I'll take one, you'll take one, we'll be fine, but I'll give you this bottle sort of thing. And watching Rue look at that bottle and look at that bottle. knowing inevitably what she's going even if even if like those of us watching it are worried that there is poison in that bottle.. K knowing what Rue is inevitably going to do time and time again because she is has an illness. is, you know, the slow motion tragedy, you know, it's watching a bullet in slow time head toward someone. and I thought that was really effective. Unquestionably. And those moments and all of the root stuff in general, if you just want to like chalk it up to runtime dwarfed by Nazis and drug dealers and revenge shootouts. It's like having a scene staged in the name of Rue is not the same as Rue being there. And the fact that we get to the end game of what euphoria is, if this is the end of all euphoria Maddie is sitting on the floor Rue is dead, Nate is dead, Cassie is not involved, Lexi is not involved. What show are we watching? Right, And it's only by virtue of Ali's sort of emotional movement inside of that scene I, you know, I turned to you while we were watching it It was like thirty minutes in. And we were still doing like Nazi shootouts stuff. And I was like, we could have spent any minute of this time with Jules and we didn't. Before we started, I asked for last minute predictions and I asked you how many scenes you thought Jules was going to be in and you said one point five. and I think you if we count the the bike flashback. Yeah, that's the point five. You nailed it fucking hate that I nailed itolutely. And Im so mad about the jual stuff. And then forty five minutes in. Ru is de forty five minutes into this finale, which is you know, ninety plus minutes. Rue is dead. I thought that was an interesting cho to make, likeike when when do you knowing that? I have to imagine that they ran out of shooting days with Zendaya. I have to imagine that Jacob Alordi and Zendea Both said, okay, we'll come back for this season. Yeah. But much like Harrison Ford playing Han Solo again They're like, you got to kill us. So there's no chance you can try to ask us to come back for season four If a season four happens. And in that Esquire article, Sam Lvenson does say never, say never about a season four. But so if If Sunday is like, you gott to kill me, then the math you're doing at home, if you're Sam Levinson and his team is How Early in this finale, can we kill Rue. Yeah and still have an interesting story to tell. How do you feel like they executed it? Not well. Yeah. I think the stuff involving Rue as you've mentioned mostly worked for me. Yeah. Everything else did not, includluding like if it's not gonna be about Rue, so much of this season has been about Cassie and Cassie and Maddie, and they're barely in this episode let's talk about the Cassiendie really quickly because I actually quite liked it artistically, even if I So what worked for you? Okay, I thought I did think the ring lightight halo around her was funny and fun and I liked it In the diner scene between Maddie and Cassie, like I'm not sure I buy this whole like they're the loves of each other's lives. The relationship is the love story of the season. any of that. I don't really buy it But The choice to have One of my favorite songs, Royie Irbison's in Dreams playing while she's slathering French toast in syrup and thinking about For the record, I think that's like a normal amount of syrup. You and I wildly differ on syrup. I think it's disgusting. But like the folly on the syrup was meant to make it sound like too sicky, too sticky, like incorrect. So like this this like sticky sweet like idea she had of what her future would be. And then we wind up This floating camera out of the house and it looks like a doll house. and she looks like a doll trapped in a doll house Sttistically definitely works. I thought that was pretty interesting on the behind the in the behind the episode video when Mod Appatu is talking about that scene between Lexi and Cassie talking about how they have a failure to emotionally connect Did that like dramatically work for you? Does watching two people fail to emotionally connect work for you? This is like when you're trying to show characters on sccreen that don't have chemistry and it's like part of the plot that they don't have chemistry Like I'm talking about you materialists, for example. It's like it's a tough hang sometimes. It's the scen materialist catching strays on on a I mean, the Euphoria Sunday. The scene goes on and on of these two people who just are not on the same wavelength whatsoever. We've known that since season one. This is not a revelation.. And so the idea that at the end of their journeys of season three Lexi is trying to honestly reach out and communicate something with Cassie about Rue and about loss and about reading the Bible and like reaching for a sense of purpose and a way to continue on just in life. R. And Cassie, I think one, probably isn't equipped to handle all that period. And then two in this moment is putting on like stone face smile. I swear everything is okay, like facade on fade. it might come back at some point I'm cleaning this dildo, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. And so like It kind of works within the structure of those characters, but is it a good scene to watch? Is it an engaging scene to watch? Do it feel like we're paying off a season or three seasons worth of character? I can't say I felt that way. I think it's a real failure for Lexi. And this season has been a failure for Lexi because like the whole LA Kights Sharon Stone story, like what it felt like we were spittning our wheels, similarly with Jules and her like suugar daddy that we were just Nate and the housing development. like all of those stories just felt like a reason to check in on these characters, but not an actual story with resolution for them. I found Hunter Schaefer's performance as Juleles and I thought the painting was very poignant and Hunter Schaefer talked about the act of creating that painting herself as an artist. but But she's just still there with her sugar daddy and I'm like, what was? Her emotional journey in this episode is just her grief about Ro. and that is important to me But I don't know what it tells me about where we're leaving her Yeah And and what her life what is her decision going forward? Is she on a healthy track? Is she on an unhealthy track? I'm not sure. I genuine know how to interpret is at this point in life. Right. We barely spend any time with her and I found it endlessly frustrating throughout the season, hoping that Okay, maybe if something dramatic happens in the finale or the penalate episode, we'll get to spend more time with Jules. And we just never did. And I feel like it's so damning that if you take out every single Jewel scene of this season, it changes nothing. Not a single plot point, not a single bit of character. like she means nothing to anyone in season three of Euphoria. and that's heartbreaking for one of the core characters of the story. Very similar I mean, I would say the same thing for Lexi Other than like circumstances that fought, you know, moves some things in certain directions. It like getting Cassie on TV and involved in that process. Yeah, Jules, you know And Nate is again a plot device more than a character this season. And so yeah, the Decision that Sam Levinson made to dedicate so much of the season to the Alamo versus the Nazis storyline. Yeah Boggling To me, when you have incredible actors playing incredible characters that we have a deep emotional investment in, it is extremely strange for us to spend so much time on, I don't give a shit that Laorie jumped off a building at all. Sorry, I don't.ike I really have no connection to it. I don't give a single shit about what Yeah anything that happens to any of the Nazis. Fey lives great. L Do she deserve to? I don't know who deserves. I I am just shocked and surprised that we wound up here. I don't know, I kept waiting for the season to realize it was dwelling on the wrong corners, you know? So I think the Lauri stuff in this episode is a great example of that where it's like technically, okay, we're building tension. We're getting this rising mounting confrontation between the DEA and Alamo's gang and Lauri's gang all in one place I'm kind of feeling like just the physical exhilaration of a set piece. but I don't care about any of it. and it feels so far afield of all the stuff I do care about. it's like A thrash metal concert was going on and they stopped and they were like, let's do a clarinet solo in the middle of this for absolutely no reason I don't know why this is happening. Like I don't I don't know what I'm meant to feel when Laurie kills herself other than I guess a sense of like almost she didn't have to do that because they don't actually have any drugs there. They just have fake drugs and no money. Just laxatives. J a bunch of laxatives. On your hit list this evening is the film materialist and clarinet music. Only those at Thrash Midle shows But you're a symphony guy. Well about your famous posture. If you stop a symphony for a Thrash metal guitar solo, the same concept applies. I just don't understand what one has to do with the other. Put some respect on the woodwinds. That's all I have to say about that. the Can I ask you a Juleles' question before I move on from Jules though, Please? Beuse I fear this is the last we're ever gonna talk to talkking about Jel Who do you think had more screen time in this episode or in the season Kitty's BBL. That'siterally what was going gonna ask Kitty's BBL or Jules. I think it was the BBL. Kitty's BBL gets like a walk and talk. Yeah. some close up. Yeah. Legit reaction shots I just don't even know what to do. What are we doing here? Absolutely. Come on. The last thing on the Nazi shootout, another baffling moment for me. somethingomet they got a genuine laugh from us in the room. Yeah was when the DA agent said, I can't wait to nail these motherfuckers to the cross. I at least that's you for I being cute. and I'm okay with you for I being cute What was with the Nazi who's not Wayne with the long the like that's Nazi number three. Jesus looking Nazi. R Like who had like a bloody sort of crown and like I was like, are we doing Jesus imagery for a Nazi? Is that what we're doing here in this moment? Why wouldn't you? Okay, let's talk about the other major religious sort of figure, the Moses of it all. Okay The theory that people had in comparing Rue to Moses is that Ru would somehow lead the Girls out of the strip cllub to the prromised land As it says in the Bible, Moses does not get to go to the promised land. Wouldt you say byy the transitive property In Ali sort of eliminating Alamo and freeing whatever girls want to leave if they want to leave. Kitty takes her BBL on the road, it seems like. that kind of ru did that to a certain degree. too let my people go is to let thes out of the silver silver slipper. Yeah No, I don't. I don't think that works Not to know but you, but absolutely not. It's not the rule of podcasting. So the address on the homestead is Jerusalem Road six hundred one three. Right, which a number of our listeners wrote in, you know, we were trying to make it like a John three hundred sixteen thing and they're like, well, first of all six hundred one three or six hundred and thirteen is a very important inside of the Jewish faith, but I think our listener, Stephen really nailed it because he said Exodus six hundred and thirteen is when God commanded Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. This is and I quote. why not quote the Bible here the Euphoria finale. A new Bible or the old one? It's definitely Michael York's Bible. And the Lord spake unto Moses and unto Aaron and gave them a charge unto the children of Israel and unto Pharaoh King of Egypt to bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt So The story of Moses u is that he angers God in a complicated rock and water based event as one does. And does not get to go to the prromised land. And it is this concept that Mallory and I talk about all the time in House of our when we talk about our Bible, which is the Lord of the Rings, when Frodo said, I saved the Sire, but not for me, right? So Moses leads the people out to the promised land, but not for him. So Frodo is Rue and Jesus and Moses and all things at once But like Is this interesting to you? does the Moses Like Did Rue make a Moses level error in taking the fentanyl, Is that what we're meant to think? Or are we stretching this to the breaking point and we should just move on? I think we are stretching it to the breaking point. But as we discussed previously, I think that is part of the text of the show is the idea that To be honest, it's one of the things that we do best as humans, which is interpret sometometimes seemingly random events and assign them a ton of meaneting. Are we guilty of that on the show? Who knows? It's Rue the cow. The conversation we had about whether Rue was reincarnated as a calf I'm not so convinced that's not what the show is. I posturing. Definitely think that's what the show is intimating. Good lord. that Dahlia's calf is Rue. I was legitimately waiting for the little girl to say, and we named her Ruby. We named her Ruby. it just ever came, That's restraint We did it. Episode one. when Ru wakes up in the homestead. And the little girl goes, You want a cup of milk? sure, thank you. That's the best fucking milk I've ever had. It's Dahia's thank you, Dahlia, land of milk and honey Yeah I think R is the cow It's a miracle cow. It's a few months old.. It's been a few months since Rue died. I think Rue is the cow. We've spent an hour on Nazis and Rue is the cow Euphoria Colon, an our Nazis and Ru is the cow. That's where we wound up here. I don't know. How did the homestead finale work for you? How did Ali showing up there work for you I like the structure of it. I like the emotion of it. I like Coleman Domingo's performance as always Do we need Zendaya superimposed back in as a vision at the end, notot exactly, but I like enough of like, you know The shot of, for example, like the table being set with Ollie outside out the window in the background. I heard you make a like John Ford noise as you' time. I don't even want to know what that noise is, but I'm probably guilty of. And so as usual like cinematically, I like a lot of what Euphoria is doing. emmotionally, I like some of what it's doing. and in terms of the larger structure of the story it's trying to tell I am Dumbfounded Speaking of classic Westerns, when we're on the trip to Mexicoes, we see a number of movies throughout this episode. Everyone likes to watch old movies in the world of Eu for. Everyone's watching old movies on Vizio TVs and pouring big old glasses of Coca Cola. It's true. Well, we'll talk about the Coca Cola for sure. That's not how you pour Coca Cola. Please. At all. Anway All Down in down Mexico away. They're watching the film Shane One of the most famous Gunslinger movies of all time you may know it through the movie Logan, which liberally ss Shane, if that's your point of reference. But the scene we get is where the young boy, Jodie, I think, is asking Shane to teach him how to shoot, right? And right after like pretty soon after that, Shane has his most famous Mologue about what a gun is. He says, a gun is a tool, no better or worse than any other tool and ax a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it remembered that we'd all be better off if there wasn't a single gun in this valley, including yours. You're thin about Logan right now. No more guns in the valley. I'm not thinking aboutan. Pace in the valley And then the end of at the end of Shane, it's very similar to Frodo and Moses She brings peace the valley. There's no more hobbit forward podcast than I was expecting, but that' you That's what I'm saying. That's my fault. But Shane rides off sort of slumped in his saddle and you can decide for yourself whether or not he made it out alive, but basically he saves the valley, but not for himself. Right. This idea of Ali being there, I really like your interpretation of like, it's not about getting the sex workers out of the club. It's about maybe rescuing Ali from That's what it feels like to me. This sort of hamster wheel he was on of like, you know trying toate prostrate himself in front of Throw his body in front of all of these young people who are using and it failing again and again and again and again So is there something better he can do? I don't know if better he can do is shooting up a strip club, but is better he can do find some peace for himself at the end of the day? Yeah What do you think that feels in many cases like the healthiest and most hopeful outcome for any character on the show. The idea that they could have a sense of closure of moving on. and it's one thing you and I have been talking about throughout the season as far as like, willill Rue get that sort of opportunity? Clearly, that wasn't in the cards for her But it could be for Ali, someone who has already come to terms with so much more of who he is and what he has done and what he's capable of and like the deepest, darkest parts of himself and tried to reconcile that out of other people Unsuccessfully, time and time again Levinson and his team have said that they were hoping this would be an uplifting finale. Does it feel uplifting to you? That there is hope alongside an hour of Nazis and a BBL. Well, let's talk about who there would be hope for because Ru is dead Nate is dead But yeah, has Rue found peace When Ali finds her on the couch and he's like, mayay God give her peace, you know, and the way that her death is depicted, there is the gasping sounds of her dying that is so horrifying and hard for us to watch. But in those moments inside of her own interior life, she is united with her mother Yeah that there is peace there for her. Does that work for you or you're like, no, thank you. I found that moment to be very affecting and really striking. Yeah, like reaching into the dark for her mother for salvation, for hope, like on Al on Alie's couch of all places, like that part did work But if the symbol of hope is in fentanyl overdose, that doesn't feel consistent with what the rest of the episode is saying. I don't think the symbol of hope is fentanyl overdose, but the symbol of hope is finding peace for some people in their own way. And look, the show is clearly concerned with that. It's clearly concerned with the idea of like how do you move on from tragic things? Like what Lexi says about reading the Bible I'm sure you could superimpose about a lot of the people who are working on this show and have now suffered this kind of tragic loss, both within the show and just elsewhere in their lives. And like how do you pick up the pieces? How do you keep putting one foot in front of the other? It's part of the text of the show I'm just like, I feel the whiplash of everything Euphoria has been to get to this point. it's a completely different show. It's a completely different show. but it does itself no favors in this finale. reminding us. It's like here's a flashback from season one. Even Jules's painting is like very much like like a r on the bed kind of like strewn about in one of these like hazy moments and say, if you just keep bringing us back to that place in the way that finales often do. you're begging a comparison that does not do this season any favors and I think only serves to contrast how much this show does not pay off that show Our listener Syidney emailed us to Maddie's numberber one boy at Jmail d. com. The title of the email is Distracted by the Allure of Parkour And Sydney wrote Just finished the fin alle, and can't believe I didn't notice Ru's red overdose sweatshirt and the obvious hallucination because I was too distracted by the possibility of Fezco park horing out of jail I was really glad is not the word, but to have the hoodie back inside of this episode felt important. The visions that we see of her father. And I thought, you know, Cassie bringing up her father, like agreed. Those connective tissue moments back to the first season, I thought were, I don't know, they worked on me. That was maybe the most human moment we've had from Cassie in a long. Um Our listener, Trish wrote in to say, looks like Bishop is Maddie's number one boy, actually.es. So here's my quest Here's my question for you Does Bishops turn here make sense Was it tipp for us in any way before this episode Earlier in the episode, a few minutes before, he decides to turn an Alamo who he has been nothing but a loyal foot soldier to, I think I'll season. Y Mattie says, you know what I would find surprising a little grace in this world. And I was wondering if in that moment he was like, I can provide that for you somehow. Right. I think it was like, It's pretty clear for people who know the visual language of cinema that like he handed him an empty gun, like all of that sort of stuff. I did like the splashing of the bullets into the blood soaked carpet. I didn't. I liked it I mean he's not doing it for us. He's doing it for Ali, like please don't shoot me out out of the gun Yeah But I just like the visual of it. and specifically, again, like that sinking sensation of the bullets into this like, I can only imagine what fluids are in that carpet other than the blood of this moment, but I did enjoy it. You know, some some viewers pointed out that when he's in the car with Matdie and Snowflake that that's the first time we see Bishop smmile all season. Yeah. So this is a classic A crime story trope Henchman terms on crime boss because of a girl or you know, a soft spot for something. Yeah She's just she's not just a girl. the girl. Thank you. The girl of girls. But Euphor I may not know it, but we know it That hasn't seeded it all And so it makes his turn conffusing. I mean, they had, I believe one, maybe two previous conversations. Right. And it was like the start of a like a kind of a mutual respect, You could see kind of developing between them But there's no connective tissue. This is flashed a couple months in the future, so I guess you can kind of fill in the gaps. Absolutely. But instead of following Kitty'sBL through the club,, could we have gotten a montage of like Maddie getting the envelope going to the club again and again and again and like her relationship with Bishop developing over those three months to the point where when he turns In his incredible coat, we should not neglect a coat, It makes a bit more sense, you know? Even if we're just getting those scenes and you're seeing like Bishop observe, right? It's like he could be a third party kind of clocking and understanding as he's se't calculating what's happening in front of him. She doesn't even have to have a deep emotional relationship with Maddie, but some backgrounding as far as why this would happen Is there anything in Other than the way he poured Cke, anything that Alamo does in this episode, his monologue about the American Dream or any of that, did any of that impact you at all I mean, define impact Okay. You to pull it up. No, like the idea of like, oh, I had an epiphany. Kitty spread her legs and I stared into. I apologize to this in advance, The void No, this did not work for me. This felt like, as unfortunately it hass happened many times with this character and throughout this season, like shaky monologue ripped from a much lesser show So the cooke of it all. Why do we get so much cooke this episode? I genuinely don't know Is it an American dream? That's what I was thinking. It' Americana American dream. It is, you know, it is A helpful signal inside of the swwitched ambulance moment, that Cke bottle earlier in the episode So the American dream is what unites drrug dealers, strip club owners, and Nazi people. Im gonna lead into this email I'm about to read from our listener, Amanda. It' quite long. buckle up. I'm gonna read the whole thing because it's very good Okay, Amanda sent this in before the finale. She said Euphoria season three, and it's built off the email we read last week about sort of the crumbling American dream and what Euphoria has to say about that Thefore Season three positions itself as a grotesque elegy for the American dream and the death of Americana, portraying a nation spiritually and structurally collapsing beneath the weight of excess, exploitation, and illusion. Through imagery of drug epidemics, performative wealth, hypersexualized influencer culture, and nostalgic Americana aesthetics, the season reframes contemporary America as a parity of itself A country obsessed with freedom, prosperity reinvention and image. while simultaneously consumed by fraud, addiction, violence, and moral exhaustion. The series suggests that the American youth are not simply lost, but instead inherit a culture already hollowed out where identity is commodified, intimacy is transactional, and survival depends more on performance than authenticity. And then she goes on to talk about sort of like the symbols of Christianity we see not only the tattered sort of American flag that we get at the homestead at the end of the episode, but there's an American flag hanging from the mirror of the ambulance, you know that Eddie and the other not seen her before, I think, are Mitch, are driving. What do I mean again, I think when our listeners write in with these kinds of emails they're talking about a better show than Euphoria actually is But what do you think when I had having just read this email from her from Amanda, I think it's very astute. When the Coke bottles show up, I'm like, sure, theoke bottles are here. That makes sense to me. I mean, was I'm sorry by white picket fences. L We are tying all the threads together. And frankly, I think Ali's speech in the middle of this episode about like empathy and how really the problem is we've just like lost track of what is right I mean, just like intellectually, I would argue maybe we never had it and we've just convinced ourselves that every time fifty years ago we did That's neither here nor there. I think E four is clearly obsessed with this idea in this season. I don't know if that seasons one or two really cared about it at all other than the like It's nine PM. Do you know what your teenagers are doing kind of way This season is about we've talked, you know, we've discussed like the young people aging into a sense of hopelessness and a generation that has no opportunity for them And what is that if not the complete desolation of the American dream? The idea that like you finally get to the top of your little hill and rather than be able to like put your flag on it and build your little house, there's just nothing for you there other than Maybe it's a doll house that now traps you or maybe you're just part of another bigger machine That is what the show is trying to tap into. I just don't know. here's the thing. I always How far down this road have I gone? No don't no, it's good. I was just wonder if'reaking, far and away reference earlier, when you werere talking about a flag on top of the hill. If I make a far and awayay reference, I'm gonna to put up the duke. you're gonna know what's happening I think Euphoria is at its best it has a lot to show us Clearly Some people making this show are under the impression that it's at its best one has like a lot to like shout at us. And I feel shouted at a lot in this finale. I mean it ends with God like tiny Tim God bless us everyone from Rue. like astounding I do want to circle back and talk about the title. This is usually something I do at the top of the episode, but I thought we should like Talk about our thoughts and feelings before I got in the weeds here, but the episode's called In Godta be Trust. Um which is on our money. Yeah Um And do you know the history of Inot? we trust? I looked this up before the finale the Robins, ladies and gentlemen. So this is the commodification of faith, right? Like that's what In Godote trust is.. Dates back to the Civil War, when the Union were like worried that the Confederacy looked like the more Godd fearing side of the war started putting in God we trust on the money to say like, no, we believe in God That was on the coins when it wound up on the paper money and as our national like I don't know, what do you call it motto? That's the word I want. I was gonna to say catch phrase, that's what're talk about. It kind of is our catchphrase, though. Wh used to be e Plurbus unum from many one, which is great. In it's the nineteen fifties, the Eisenhower administration is what put in God we trust on our paper money. Because guess what? they lost track of what was right and they needed to be set straight. It was during the Cold War Atheism of the Soviet Union needed a sort of like counter in America. So we put in Gobinrust on the money. Here's a quote from the New York Times from eighteen sixty five. You can only be yourself. I can only be myself. Let us try to carry our religion such as it is in our hearts and not in our pockets, and quote, bars for the New York Times in eighteen sixty five I think It's tough for me as an atheist. I'm interested in the questions of faith I'm interested in the imagery of the Old Testament that was used in this season. I'm interested in the concept of something bigger than yourself and that providing you meaning It's hard for me how like overtly Christian the ending of this episode felt. That being said, I think in God of We Trust as an episode title is incredibly good because it circles back to Amanda's email about sort of this idea of like what is America if not taking this universal question of like our place in the universe and who is helping us and who is guiding us and slapping it on our fucking money, you know, at the end of the day I just I am having a hard time understanding what how clarified that message is from the show. I don't think What is tongue in cheek? What is not tongue in cheek? What is an earnest appeal in this very emotional way I'm curious if you had any of these moments, Joe, where I had one other episode in mind of a very different show during this finale and it was the finale of Fargo seeason five. Did think about the finale of Fargo seeason five at all I'll tell you what I was thinking about. Okay after you tell me. If you don't wantan to hear about the finale of Fargo seeason five, cover your ears, hit me, jump forward thirty seconds, whatever. That's a finale that's like built up and built up and built up only to stop us like dead in our tracks with the confrontation about like People over a dinner table talking about like what we owe to each other as human beings Literal financial emotional emotional, psychologically societal Yeah. Yeah, yeah In that show, it felt like a subversion, right? This idea of like we're going to grind a halt. We're gonna we're going to have this talk in a show where you expect somebody to get shot. This felt like detour in the emotionality of the finale, where it's like it's trying to have this very earnest conversation about the Bible, about carrying on, about, you know, the role of faith in society and where we have lost our way and like how empathetic should we be and whom? And it just again, it felt like we just segued into a back alley of a totally different show and just emerged out of like a manhole cover and like, hey, I guess we're here now. I guess we're watching Nazis shoot people, I suppose. I guess Um I just I just can't with this. What do you what do you think is going to happen for your girl Maddie at the end of the day here Nothing good. I mean I guess I guess she gets to live not under Alamo's thumb. Here's Here's a question I have for you Cassie and Cassie is talking about how she is in debt So much debt that she doesn't want to sell the house because it basically wouldn't matter if she owes more than that. Yeah. Who does she owe money to Alamo Does she? Yeah, he's taking twenty percent of I mean, Alamo, and then also is the house like over mortgaged and you know what I mean? Like I don't, you know, I don't know. I mean, it's the only answer is Alamo. I guess I was just a little fuzzy after last week as far as who owed what to whom betweeny and Matie have like pulled Matie Enterprises and inco LLC. Yeah, in which they are now running their own influencer house Also a brothel. shes like it. Yeah. with the caramel carpets and wallpapers. Right. whichich makes me think of sex naturally Yeah, I guess they are they are wed in their own way and therefore one debts one de one's debt becomes the other and they both alamo. Right I guess in that way Maddie iscott free. You know, she' no money tos anybody anymore. O than Bishop. So do you think they still run their business out of the house or do they do something else? They gotta get the fuck out of there. Yeah but This episode doesn't tell you anything to suggest that Cassie is like ready to get out of the dollhouse she has created like the dream house and the dream she has created and inhabiting 's just haunting her every second. I don't think she's getting out of there anytime soon. Any other positives that you want to linger on in this episode? Give me a moment.. please S me for you Genuinely not that there aren't that they aren't there, but sometimes you gott to dig. Yeahah, that's fine. Animan Patton as Kitty G genuinely quite funny in this veryy funy By all aside, all of her like sort of Timid with the almond champagne and all of that. and her and the ambulance as well got some genuine laughs from us. Definitely. Marsha Lynch also got a lot of laughs from usP of the season. Every time. Okay, how about Jackson? Who had a more consistent hit rate? Bang for buck, sure. Marsha Lynch, one hundred percent ofer rating ever scene he's in just one of the funniest and best parts of the show. Is he doing what Zintay is doing? No. but I enjoyed him quite a bit Do you feel like, you know, we got this email from our listener, Carly wondering if the Alice shoot out in the strip club You know, this circles back to something we've already talked about, but is that a sort of very through the lens of Tarantino esque way for Sam Levinson to process his grief about Angus Cloud? Yeah without a doubt And Is that emotionally effective to you at all or not so much? Not particularly unfortunatelying Angus Cloud inside of this episode. This, I think, is one of the positives. The footage that they found of Zendaye and Angus Cloud kind of like arm in arm in the field, I did find quite affecting. And look, I think there's a combination of like, once the Parkour prison break appears to be happening. There's like a That's a very funny idea. and also I really hope this isn't real. I really hope we're not turning Fez into like an actual plot. And so the relief of kind of slowly discovering, and I'd be curious to hear from you, Je, like when that moment was for you where you were realizing, oh, we're tipping from reality into something maybe in Rue's head, But that we spend that moment to kind of say goodbye to Rue and to Fez arrm in arm, that did do something for me. So it came out of late for me actually. It was as soon as we saw her mom like just sitting at the table like that. and then I was like, oh, this isn't real But it hooked me for a minute because this show is so weird that I was like, maybe we are on a wacky antic, like very jailable break moment I thought that footage was really emotional to watch. again, in that Esquire interview, Sam talks about the fact that it was like filmed, I believe at the end of season one, and it was just them testing that Kodak film that they wound up using for later on. It was just sort of like test footage in a field. It wasn't even like a lost scene that they cut or something like that. was just like So Zende and Anglish were just being like themselves and goofy in a field. So that is very like emotional think about Carly The finale that I was thinking about a lot was six feet under, a far superior finale of course. Yeah. But Rue in the car sort of You know, Th about Lauren Ambrose in the car at the end of of six feet the window Loo at the window and instead of like, you know, looking into the future because in six feet under you can't take a photo it. It's already gone. R. Rue' looking into the past and seeing her younger self, seeing Gia we have not seen it all this season. Jules in her point five scene on the bike like seeing Jules on the bike, likeike I got emotional seeing that I thought emotional seeing the derelict like convenience store. Absolutely. Like that all of that really worked on me personally. It did for me too. I think the combination of like ye, you can't go home again with things like the convenience store Yeah, but you have to try. You have to keep running. You have to keep going every alley under the police tape, like run as hard and as fast as you can to try to get to the one place you feel safe That works Yeah, I think like most of this stuff with Ru And here's the thing, if you're going to get one thing right Make it Rue's story in the season three finale. Try to nail that stuff down as well as you can. I think they did that stuff pretty well. I just wish it was twice as much screen time. I wish or If you want to kill Rue off in the penulttimate episode and have the whole episode in the finale be the characters dealing with grief in that we kind of gesture to here I would appreciate a fuller kind of I would like tousion into that. I would like to know how Matdie feels about or his death. Yeah. we don't get to know. Don't get a second of it. Our lister Laura wrote in to say the diner scene with Maddie and Cassie is so reminiscent of Mulholland drive Blonde and Bunette two ses the same coin, Roy Orbison's in Dreams playing in the background Thisn't The only time that Mal and Drive has been like references have been picked up by our listeners as a sort of like I think it was the Gilda reference earlier in the season that our listeners picked up on So Lake As a tale of a cautionary tale of the Hollywood dream. Oh yeah. Like how much does referencing Mahahhall and Dve interest you inside of a season of Euphoria? It interests me in the way that the larger kind of like tapestry of film references do. And Euphoria has always been the kind of show that is drawing from here and there that is parroting some things overtly, that's commenting on something subtly. Right. It's one of the things I enjoy most about the show is that it does come with like a heavy round of footnotes if you care to dive into them. Yeah. But it's not selling a finale like this. Like just because you have interesting references doesn't necessarily mean you're telling an interesting story. Yeah Anything else you want to say before we get to some of our YouTube questions? Let's hear what people have been chiming in with. Okay. Lux Ray fourteen twenty wrote, firstirst time long time. in a post the Iidol probablyably post Euphoria world, what interest level do you have for Sam Leinson's next project? This is where I expose, I guess my own kinks. I would do it again. Even after all this, I would show you r? Okay, would you rather? U Drink the finger water or get no, I'm just kidding. wouldould you rather? I think history has shown you are on the wrong side of the finger water versus foot stuff. I don't know, that's what I'm hearing from the streets. Well, you can enjoy your flesh eating bacteria in your brain. Clearly Maddie, like Maddie letting Alamo play with her feet and then all the like when Maddie said, Don't waake up, I'll be homely. Yeah devastating. So that's what comes from letting Alamo play with your feet Rob. So I think I'm on the right side of history there. Did you find it narratively interesting at all for like Like my stance is well articulated on Maddie. Well, I can't believe you hit me with a DD f is there. My move. Turned out his fair play. Did you find it narratively interesting at all to find a character as like willful and proud as Maddie reduced to this in the finale, being like the one old damns old basically being a prostitute in the way she said she would never be I would have liked her to do something Yeah in that final shootout to help. you know, Bishop hands in the light gun you know, the empty gun.. Can she like trip him at something, you know what I mean? Like Is there something she can a distract to help, you know? Apparently not. What'd you think about the one trickle of blood sort of like vampire like sort of dropping from her mouth in that final scene? Very stylish, ultimately meaningless U Okay, so this idea of a post Euphoria post idol, Okaykay, would you rather? Season four of Euphoria or a completely different new Sam Levinson project. I think what I'm finding is I would have rathered, instead of season three of Euph for you, just make the show that has this messaging that you clearly are invested in telling, a story that makes sense in a different world and a different package that I just don't think really fit this one. So I'm here for new projects. I'm here for new ideas rather than kind of like shoehorning drew a new theme of the week into this old one What if Sam gives us a Maddty Hasssey Jewel season, Alexi season that actually like uses them and doesn't get distracted by Alamo versus the Nazis. I don' I dare to dream for that anymore. Okay. But Roy Eerson says in dreams You should think about it U our listener, Mike, I think or Michael Says, I was expecting some narration from Rue at the very end. The final scene was Ellipsess weird. Yeah. How do you feel about the absence of Rue narration other than the like sort of God bless us everyone moment that we get. But there wasn't, you know, the standard Zendaya Rue narration inside of this episode. I quite love the usual Zendaya narration in euphoria. So I do kind of miss it. Yeah. I wouldn't say I noticed it. And to be fair, I think if it had been after her death, it's like a little weird and a little goulish and a little like lovely bones for me. So I'm just gonna say like after she dies, we don't need any more narration. That's not gonna to be the only lovely bones for reference you make on a podcast. somehow not. That's so funny. I don't know, it's very our town, like that's positive for me. I wouldn't have minded it because then it kind of would have felt like Rue was narrating the whole series in her omniscient way from other side I wanted like how I met your mother framing for you for. How dare you? I said our town. I reference the theater Okay, notot a servious sitcom that everyone hates the ending of. The absolute relish foot of the there. Theater One question I have for the Homestead finale is Uh I I wrote her name down as eldest daughter, but the actress's name is Jessica Trescaa who plays the eldest daughter on the homestead and she gets a lot of like lingering close ups inside of this finale. She's one of the few characters who gets an Amen Some of the One of my major notes from the first episode was that her face just like defefinitely looks like she's seen an iPhone. Like she just did not look like she had She's too. Homestead face. Yeah. She had lip filler. There was, know she's beautiful, beautiful girl. Who But let say has homestead face? Oh wow, what a great question. I don't feel like there's a way for me you to answer that without insulting the person. I think you should try Why not like Alis and Pill L a young Alison I could see that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. If you told me I'll be in f woman. If you put Alison Pill on a homestead instead of like she grew up a Quaker. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I believe that. Exactly. So I'm just saying if we're sort of like lingering on the face of What is she supposed to represent? Innocent America. sheltered America, what is eldest daughter on the homestead? What if What if Euphoria in its defense is kind of splitting the difference and saying like the lines between this sort of idealistic like Heaven like homestead. sureure And falling into the sort of hell that Cassie now inhabits is like so porously thin And the idea of like, this is a modern looking woman who is living here But who easily could get pulled into a much more like weird, nefarious, manipulative likeyebrist lifestyle. Eyebrows already on fleak, ready to be an influencer.? Should she choose you give her a ring light? Any could happen. Ring light, halo Are you gonna to miss you for you This is the thing, I will. Okay. Are you gonna to miss it? because you're gonna to miss the show or are you gonna miss hanging out weirdly in a studio with us on a Sunday night It's hard to differentiate Theyuly will miss that. Like we have become subject to this like Stockholm syndrome of taping the show and doing it together and it's been so much fun. Yeah. But also like I love talking about this show because it is always doing weird, interesting things, even in this finale. How can't call it boring, you know? Absolutely not. And we've seen enough finales that are that are just kind of like a wet fart of emotion at the end where it's like not giving you anything at all. This gave you a lot of Nazis, but it did give you something That's on the quote . This is the wholly inopportune time to say this, but Hax finale, which a also aired this week. Yeah Perfection. I wepted through the last episodes. I love you to hear this is someone who was not yet caught up. It was so good And people are like, why why are you cover Euphoria not hacks? And I apologize But Hacks wrapped everything up perfect like like textbook perfectly U, But Sam Levinson is not looking for text this is what I'll say about Sam Levinson. He I think he wants to provoke I think he wants people agitated and talking about whatever he's making. Yes I think he thinks he's both Ali and Jules making like provocative art or whatever the case may be And Sick S Ds. And people are talking about it, you know, And so he's gotten exactly what he wanted which are all sort of like stirred up, whether it's positively or negatively. The kind folks who are helping us out today have run a couple of polls on the YouTube for us. Satisfy with the finale No, sixty nine percent. Yes, thirty one percent. Okay Do we want to season four No, eighty five percent. Yes. fifteen wor percent. That's harsh. I hope HBO is not listening. I think I would rather a Euphorus season four than a brand new thing only because you have not experienced the ol haven't. You know? I have not. Yeah. That's more about the people involved on screen who I'm just like, just that's a lot. That's a lot of weekending for me. Yeah, G me the Iol elsewry the whip. Likes a it's a very, very bad show. And so I think I don't know Chris Ryan says otherwise. By better or by truth, I don't know, but fit. Absolute bit. But Chris is as much bit as man. Yeah He's more bit than man now I think sometimes. But like listen, I think a Euphoria season four with the dream and hope of finding out how Jules is doing and what Matdie's up to is far more intriguing to me Do think we're going to get one Season three was Highly rated and talked about. Do you think HBO will give us a season four if Jacob Lordi and Z Dea cannot show up for it? I'm less optimistic than I was a week ago. Okay. I thought we were kind of leaning in that direction in the run up to the finale, But seeing where all these characters ended up Yeahah, there's a lot of story. you could tell with Cassie and Maddie and Lexy in particular. I don't think Jules is going to be a part of it. I'm not sure to what extent like Hunter Schafer was ever a part of this season whatsoever U I just don't know what how they would pick up the pieces and try to move on if the pieces didn't seem that interesting to them in this finale and we're just kind of cast aside Heres a here's what I'm going remember from our time with Euphoria. Yeah most of all The moment W on I was watching this finale. And I said out loud is Ru the cow. And that just sums up my entire Euphoria season three experience Is Rue the cow? It makes you ask questions you never thought you would ask. And I don't want to ask. I don't want Rue to be reincarnated as Dollia's calf on the homestead. I really don't. And here we are U Great work from Zande on this episode. Yes. Great work from you on this podcast. Anything else you want to say about youu for you? I just want to say, you know we kind of Grazed by this when we were talking about Jewulel. Isas that a cow pun because Bu was a cow now? Unfortunately, so wor of cows now. I just thought everything with Sam Trmel this season was so weird Jules is barely a featured character in the show We get this whole introduction to him in her kind of like backstory catch upp prologue. And then here he just like breezes his bite through the finale, like pour a cup of coffee. Remember how Sharon Stone was in this season of television Natasha Leon Did we ever whereere was Eli Rot? Did we figure it out? I think he might u Crect us if we're wrong if we ever talk about Euphoria again, but he might have been in the earlier Cassie like like her media blitits that she did sort of like earlier in the season. Oh like as a podcaster? Yeah. I don't know. How do you feel about that? trying to figure out what presresenting me. Yeah. and it's Tish Patas and Eli Roth. Don't recall ElA Roth appearing in a memorable way this season, despite the promise of E Roth. Nor do I. I have one remaining question for you, please. What if we had ended this finale instead of on the homestead? orr maybe it's in the homestead, but laid over the top?ith a clarinet concee, I was thinking more, we finally do get Dumic Fke walking back in for an encore performance of little starose it out. You were waiting the whole time for Little star. I was kind of hoping for it, but never did you just like pan over to him on the homestead and him like a banjo version of L Yes. Yeah Rockab Billy a little. Yeah, yeah, yeah Um Sam woman said it's not too late A Tic bike I' the finale. I wouldn't mind I was thinking a lot about, you know, we did get a question from one of our listener in the YouTube comments about the HanszZimmer score. Where are we on that at the end of the day? And I was distracted watching this finale, thinking about what the labyrinth score could do for moments like Maddie walking towards that room with Alamo Ru back home. You know, I was thinking a lot about the labyrinth music, and I just think the HanZimmer felt like like in that sort of dreamy strings sort of way, I understand it, but like it didn't, it wasn't additive And's certainly not worth getting someone the caliber of HanZimmer and or the people who work for HanZimmer to do it. almost overwhelmingly agree with you. And look, we've taken our shots at the score of the season over the course of it. In particular, I'm remembering one of the scenes in which the henchman was chasing Nate around and it was like the most creative Cons comedy music you could possibly imagine, It hasn't been good But during this episode, when we're getting that very emotional rue reaching into the darkness. Yeah, I p at my phone. I'm like, I'm not familiar with this like al sweite that's playing like it feels evocative of like an ave Maria, but like I'm not quite familiar with this piece of music. What is it? It is an original composition by Han Zimmer for the show. And so it's like there were these moments where it's like, o, this is a great scene setting, emotionally tying piece of music that is working here Did it feel over the course of the entire season like Euphoria? Not exactly. I'm fine with reinvention. I'm fine with finding a new tone. I just don't know that the music ever quite got there on balance. A final musical note, and this is in honor of our producer, Dev, who is not with us here, but did text us to comment on the use of ebony and ivory When Eddie and Bitch are at the border. L And if that's notuphoria season three, I don't know what it is. I'm fine with the show being cute. That honestly, one of the higher water marks for this episode give me Roy Oerson every time. All right, thank you to everyone here who made this live stream happen. Like most of our team is on their way to Sweden right now. So thanks to everyone who stayed behind to make the Euphoria finale happen. Thanks to Jacob Cornett, to Jamie Yukich, to everyone here at Sycamore. Anyone else you want to thank, Rob Mahoney. Thanks to Sam Levinson. The Bible, The Bible. Snowflake. Moses. Of course Dahia. C on. The cow name Rue orr Ruby Clarinetinet players everywhere. Thank you, Joe, and not you the materialist. All right,'on, bye