Finale Predictions and Closing Thoughts

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This is the Penn Ultimate episode of Widows Bay Storm's a breuid. How are you feeling? I think we're past a breuinid. it's here it's here. The storm is arrived. It's arrived We got several emails, I will say, and where can folks email us? Prestige TV atpotify dot com dot We got several emails over the last few weeks about a Stephen King miniseries called Storm of the Century. Or if you were one of the actors in nineteen ninety nine in that miniseries, Stom of the Century I watched some of it.. It is very relevant specifically to this episode, and so we'll talk about it a bit in context at the end of our discussion of this episode What do you think of this episode of television, Rob Mahoney? I mean, there's a huge revelation that we've been one singular Yes, huge revelation. We've been dancing around for weeks. Fil is. H huge revelation. We will be discussing it all appropriate spoilers There's a lot of people lining up in somewhat orderly fashion And That's kind of it. It's a table setting episode. It's a real table setter. is fine. This is the way these Things tend to go at this stage of a season. It's a table setting episode. and if you cut out like going back and forth from the lighthouse and, you know, Wick getting the sheer to the shelter like that it's a shor episode. It could have been an even shorter episode. That being said, for me The great Dale Dickie is playing Rosemary Yeah. giving her this I rewatched seen so many times because I just think it's so funny Yeah. So, like, For me worth and this is this is my feeling about Widows Bay in general, like I'm greedy for more and like I want all of these episodes to be longer and like that's true. They always leave me wanting more, which is like On the one hand, good. But I just thought the rosemary stuff was so phenomenal in this episode that like while I completely agree with you, it's a table setter and not a ton happens We're setting up for a great place for the finale. Of course. Yeah in isolation, I can see how you're like, okay, we're moving pieces around. It just felt like the least eventful, but you're right from a character standpoint, this is Rosemary's like Lyn sanity moment. you if you'll spare the sports comparison, but like giving her her like clear out Let's just let Rosemary hold the room. Yeah, make her presentation. She does with overlaying like projector slide. Yeah cy sorry the transparencies. It's been a minute. you're too young. No, I was there. It's just been a minute. Just some quick programming for us for our podcast feed, I should say. We got a couple emails or comments from people saying, hey, will you be covering the vampire list at? On this feed? No, on House ofar in a quite serious fashion. Yes So if you wantan to hear week to week coverage of the vampire list st including Mallory Bot as vampire fangs. there's like a lot involved. That's over in the House of ourrs. Wh bought whatever duster or code you're wearing. Okay's great there. I'm glad it's here in the room with us. It is very special. Thank you. It's a penny lane moment if I ever had one. So that's happening. Cape Far, however, that's here, baby. Cape fear. That's where we live. That's where we sweat. We had some questions after episode two, whether or not we would cover week to week. We asked listeners if they want us to. We got a lot of emails and people say Yes, please. And then also Rob and I have since watched episode three and we both agreed we are in for week after week. I'm in there like a dead skunk in a pool. Are we gonna regret it? come week eight? Maybe. Yeah. but we're calling this trastrophe theater as in it's summer's here Apple has presented us alla presumed innocent, another prestiigy, skzy, fun time at a television show. So that's what we'll be watching. Yeah, we're here covering Widows Bay because we have come to really love all of the charms of this show. Absolutely. We're going to be covering Cape fear because we don't know what to make of it, but we're down to sleeze it up a little bit. H having a fun time I asked Some questions about the writer of last week's episode Emma Ketchem. We heard from Emma herself. She emailed the pod. It's incredible Pressy shev at spotifyot com How do want the power that you wield to will an email from Emma Ketcham into the world Well, I really love Ema emailed us and a couple of other people emailed us with information about Emma. But it's all the same, which is just basically that Emma was Katie Dipple's writer's assistant And then Katie sort of gave her this opportunity. So this is her this is her first writer's credit Y. And I just want to there episode eight, we should episode eight and The reason I want to sort of single that out is that It's rare for a writer's assistant in the first season of a television show to get a written by credit on an episode. So what to me that speaks to is Katie Dipppold's like quite deemocratic approach to her writer's room, and especially coming off something like Um, Euphoria where which doesn't even have a writer's room. like hearing that It it just makes me think very highly of this show and of this because that's how you get more and better TV writers is that you like the assistants in the room learn and they get to grow and they get to put their credit on on an episode. So I just think it's fantastic. Especially for a show like Widows Bay, where if you step off the path tonally ever so slightly. Yeah, I think it would be really, really glaring. Yeah. And yet episode eight felt locked in in step with everything that they've been doing all season long An incredible testament, I think to Emma's work, but also to the greater I'm sure the writer's room and the construction and the streamlineed nature of the way that the show is made. Right. It's an entire There's a cohesion to it. It's a cohesion, but it's a collaborative effort. Yeah It will be interesting in future, if Widows Bay runs for a million years, which we hope it does, if in future, you'll be able to identify like c oh, that's a Neil Casey episode or's like whatever episode. But thus far, we're getting like a really cohesive But you know it has a stun gun and or a taser. That's an adv.ess.'s actually anv That's your trademark. Yeah ye But you know, when you watch like certain shows like Lost or files, you know, and like Darren Morgan would come on and do these like extremely weird episodes. You're sort of excited about that. So we love writers on this show Um All right, Hannah reached out too give us a babaooking that I wanted to share.. And if you're coming in late to this season, just to establish that Katy Dipppold, of course, showruner of Widows Bay author of this incredible Babaduk tweet. The one good thing to come out of Twitter. The one well I don't know, have you seen Hunter Bid Biden's been doing on Twitter completely? I'm trying to check out all like genuinely,'s great. I think I'm good. I think I should share send some tweets The concept of Babaduking, we have determined is like showing up to something misreading the tone of the event that you're arriving to and really kind of making unwittingly making a spectacle of yourself. Most often misunderstanding the dress or the coat or the attire, or yeah, I think just the general vibe is appropriate too Hannah wrote in to say in college and she attached a photo. It's always great when they attach a photo to the Boba ducking emails. Hannah wrote in to say I in college I went to a Halleen party full of intimidating, unwelcoming. Piceies and sexy whatevers, and boy did I regret dressing his ungle of Merkele. Nobody knew who I was. I failed miserably at Flip Cup, had a bit of a tantrum, got way too drunk and complained shrilly about being a woman in a position of political leadership. I've had about a million Babaduke moments since, but I did learn from that Halloween the next year I went as seexy Boris Johnson and terrified all my friends. So I mean there is A near distance from Anngla Merkel to seey Boris Johnon somehow. likeike thats I can see how one costume could become the other. Absolutely. I'm pulling it up now. This is really something. This is is qu a good Angela Merkel. I agree. I agree. The wigwork is fantastic. All right, Mimie we running about a detail in episode eight that we missed Noting that when Tom and Patricia Wake are eating breakfast in they're like, we did it. It's done. that there was a woman who has had like one of Tom's brochures that he got printed up or I think the one that he like tries to rip up in this very episode. So at the beginning of the epode, she's like holding brochure. and then at the end of the episode when, Patricia goes to the hospital to like visit Bashir She's there with like a neck brace and like her arm and a sling. So it's just sort of like from we did it to, we're still fed as represented by this one background actor. I thought it's a really fun detail. Mimi pointed out to us Um Lauren, Lauren pointed out lastic or maybe like a couple of weeks ago about Patricia's career as a painter as an artist And I don't know if that's going to come into play, but do you feel like it came into play in this moment when she turned into the Widows Bay sububreddit and noticed the missing finger on the portrait inside of this episode? The opportunistically ripped Yeah. So only the finger is exposed on the rear side of the canvas. I was rewatching Matthew Reese having to like slam it down on the table to get it to like the exact right place where it could conceivably rip there. Trem think it rips on like your tower or something like that. anyyway, is great That's really good. As we mentioned, Rosemary does the full genealogy to get to the reveal of Ruth, not Evan Loftis as the the last remaining warrant. Nor Paticia, nor Wick. And I should say this was sort of your initial instinct where you were like, it should be someone who has like been here in the background the whole time. So we know them, but sort of waiting to step into the limelight. So how do you feel about Ruth as a choice for that. I like the choice of Ruth or someone who's not Evan. and we talked about this a little bit, but I think making it so that if it is Tom who has to make this sort of decision, he has to weigh The life of this person, and he's kind of increasingly nudged toward human sacrifice as he realizes that, oh, it's just one person. Oh, it's an elderly person. Who cares if it's Ruth. I could be talked into this in this particular moment, but making him choose between someone's life and his son's future, right? The idea that Evan can't leave the island unless his other person dies. He'll never see the Red Sox play in person I don't know if that's a bless or a curse. I have to do some polling here here at the office. Wow. I think that to me is more interesting. Consolidating everything into Evan feels like a little bit of a narrative traffic jam What I do think is interesting is that this episode sets up Tom as a father concerned about his child's future and then also Bashir as like a father concerned about his wife and his potential baby's future. And so you still do get this sort of like parents concern about their children aspect, which when we get to the Stephen King Storm of the century sort of comp is very much in the water there. With the machure partart tooth, this episode left me wondering is the decision of what to do with Ruth going to be a Tom decision at all. We see him and Wick and Patricia wrestling with that idea in this episode, but B sheer and Shell and their conversations in this plotline They make me feel like there's another shoe to drop. And it feels like what if it is not Tom who makes that call? What if it is sort of like the broader community has to decide? this like angry mob that's been burbling all throughout the season? They have to decide who they are and what they're willing to give up because everyveryone, Ber included, like they have things at stake in this too. So I was gonna to save all of the storm of the century stuff for the end, but I should say like the big climatic sort of event of Storm of the century, this four hour mini series that aired on ABC over three nights in nineteen ninety nine is a town meeting. And the whole town has to decide what to do in terms of sacrificing someone to end a storm Yeah and defeat when a classic Stephen King is it the devil kind of person? I don't know if this is going to be a town meeting or not. It could be angrier than that. mayaybe it's everybody stuck in a town mobing more than a town. I don't know if like whose rules of law is it? likeike I don't know if all of the Congressional approvals are going to be required to get this thing off the ground so much as people are going to make a rash emotional decision about whether they how they want to attempt to survive whatever this storm is. Our listener Jenna wrote in to say to give us a broad theory. They said that Katie Dipolda said the series the season is about denial The first scene in the series is Sep talking about his decision to end his relationship, even though his partner has very clearly already ended it. She's literally packed his bags But Shep is still narrating events as if he is the one making the choice. He is in denial about something painfully obvious. I wonder if the same is true for loftness. The assumption is that Loftos is in denial about the curse, but that doesn't hold up. He resists the island lore for a while. But after his encounter with a Saahag, he relents. By the middle of the season, he enforces curfew, moves with the logic of the curse. I think his denials about something else There have been enough hallucinations, visions and reality bending moments throughout the season that I would be surprised if our understanding of something basic about reality on this Spirit Island. complete with inssane Asylum remains intact. My guess is that Lafis is denying something more than the curse itself and that the season ends with a collapse of whatever he's been clinging to. Oh don know that's interesting. but like establishing Denial as as a big Yeah sort of theme of the season, I think is interesting I think it is interesting. I wonder though with Lofta specifically How much he was ever fully in denial versus that's what he was projecting to the world becausecause I think he wasn't deniable. I think the backstory with his wife suggests that he's at least like tangentially aware and maybe even personally familiar with some of these like supernatural elements that he then as mayor, pretends to not believe in. Possibly, but also like The way he describes it to Evan is like, compomlications, prereeclpsia. You know what I mean? Like So so perhaps he was like, manan of science manan of faith, there's a man of science explanation for this. And like once a S haag cornered him in a bathtub he's like, uh oh, I'm a man of faith now. I think it's when she splashed on him. I think it's when he saw our shaman Todd get sucked up into a cyclone Is that as like dono Yeah, what's the difference cyclone a tornado? It land touching land. Is it really? I think so. Wait Is this a stun gun versus? I'm just realizing I don't know what a cyclone is. Okay, Cyclone versus tornado feel like Uh Oh, cyclone has been used to describe anything that rotated counterclockwise. so often tornado and a cyclone are interchangeable. I thought one had to do with like touching lint, maybe not while your time the cycle needs to touch grass Press useTVS spotify dot coma if you paid close attention to either twwister or twwisters. you're meturologist. If you're in If you're in it for the science, not the money, then please get at us. Let us know Eric wrote in, this is the email I was reading where I was like, beforefore we started recording, you're like, o, Join Something I really enjoyed of the whole genealogy journey that Rosemary goes on this episode is that as it begins One of my favorite things about The movie Hot Fuz, which is a movie we've already referenced a couple times in establishing this. The are good, All of that. O us, all of it H is how all the town townspeople have these like Anglo Saxon names. So their last names are like what they do, you know, so there's like Garder and Tiller and like Um, and So wheeler, etcetera, et cetera, Cartwright, Wainwright, blah, blah Warren which is sort of guardian And then like Fisher, the like it's a whaler who rescues Franis out of the sea. His last name is Fisher. So like Francis Fisher great actress, but also the name of a character on the show So like we have those Anglo Saxon names sort of at the beginning and then it changes as you go down the history. Eric wrote in to talk about the The name Warren. So like protector, nurturer, stewardship of the land, like that's a thing that Warren can mean. But also like a rabbit's Warren, it could be a complicated series of tunnels are a maze. So we were already talking about the like tunnel system underneath Richard Warren's house. So this like double meaning of like Warren as Island protector, but also Warren as in like the rabbits Warren under system of tunnels underneath this island. I thought that was fun. Do you think it's possible that the storm shelter connects to those tunnels? I do think it's inevitable that it connects to those tunnels. Are we stumbling into the sacrifice room Okay, when Dale turns on the lights Emmy, okay Anyw winer Jeff Hiller, I think has not been used to his full extent this season.' not Dale Dicky got her time to shine in this. seememingly Ruth will have plenty to do in the finale, I assume. Yeah. Uh I don't know when we're getting our our episode for him. Maybe it's a season two situation. C be But of the core City haall cast. Yeah. I think you're right that he is the one member who has not really had a spotlight moment yet otherther than DJ Right, and the mushroom trip sort of like mask moment. That's true.. That was horrifying But like, His face. So I want more for him to do, but his face like when he turns on the lights, I say a hard say. Would I go down into that shelter? I'm not sure. Where are you going anyywhere else. That That looks like a storm so haunted. It the storm of the century. of centuries. It looks so haunted down there.et Better haunted than dead I don't know. I might use my like sort of California earthquake mentality to be like, can I just stand in a doorf frame? Well that protect me? Somehow in this case, I don't think it's gonna work. Okay, fine. Also, I wanted to note that in this episode, one thing that I loved is that Tom and Patricia have this like very non verbal understanding of each other. I want to maybe go back and track it all season, but there's a number of times where Rob where where Tom just sort of like nods at her. Yeah. and then she just like does, you know, like Turn on the fan, close the door, do whatever. O shows up the old timer I mean, really to be like the harbinger of the story to come. Yeah, but really just the exposition drop That' scen is so far. Closing the door. The very slow, calm, quiet closing of the door. Yeah. as he just continues to pace outside. I love that he's like simply credited as old timer. How is he in the closing credits? I was calling him in my notes old Basil exposition. How do you feel about that? Youre just bring Michael York back into the mix afterfter h story. I love that. I'll love that for you I wanted to read this email that we got from Nicole about Patricia, which I really loved. spepecifically about Patricia in episode eight. She wrote, I thought this episode, episode eight, like all Great horror had a cutting social commentary this time with Patricia. Her performance of the Fal Girl running from the Boogeyman at first is actually very quiet, almost performative It grieamves the actions of a woman who is so insecure, she doesn't want any reparation or negative repercussions for others because she got a disgustingly disparate dinner from what she ordered. It's the meekest, funniest cries for help I've ever seen Patricia is screamingly painfully relatable. Watching her run from her from the boogeyman in a way that didn't disturb others was the funniest thing I'd seen in months until I got to her holding the shotgun against the boogyman's head in four different locations. that killed me. So like for Patricia to go from like help, help it. to like Stun gunning Tazing. Even just barging into the girls night. Ting Chris. Yeah to the shotgun situation is this like evolution for Patricia? And for Patricia, you know, what Nicole singles out another moment in that episode when whichich I didn't really clock when Paticia is talking to Bashir about Shell. Be pregnant, And she says like, how old is she Yeah? U I thought she was just sort of asking as like, it didn't even occur to me that shell could be and she kind of is But also inside of this episode, when they're debating about what to do with Ruth, Yeah And they're like, she's not married, She doesn't have kids. And Patricia's like, well, glad that, you know, I'm not at a war disenter. you would already slit my throat. This idea of like, doesn't want have less value if she's not married if she doesn't have kids.. You know, upp against Tom Loftess, who's like you don't understand I have a child to protect. or sure theoretically I have a child coming that I want to protect. you know? And so like the value of the unmarried, you know doesn't have a child woman onide of this ist. And so does Patricia have this moment inside of episode eight were She finds out that Shell is pregnant and she's like likeike, is this still possible for me? I thought maybe I was like, pass my seell by date to a certain degree. like which is a theme that has been running up, you know for a lot of the women inside of the seasons. For sure. I mean it's clearly part of the cortex of the show. for many of the characters. And I also love that Patricia has all that going on where she is constantly being confronted with her age with the fact that she is single with her role in this community and how like ostracized she feels within it from the people she went to school with. But she's also the moral center of this episode. L she's the one saying Hold the fuck on. Are we talking about shooting Ruth in the back of the head? This is ridiculous. Whereas people who do have kids or people who just feel like they have different motivations are very willing to at least consider this like really barbaric thing. Do you view that scene with like Tom And the episode ends with We don't know what Tom's going to. I mean, We can suspect. We suspect what Tom is off to do. But he has not answered no what he's going to do So if Tom is the undecided right And you have Wick being like Gotta I can make it peaceful. Right Patricia is saying, you simply can't That's the sort of like angel are these like the angel devil ideas that are going to be in his head as he navigates whatever trolley problem moral decision that he has to make in the finale. I'm glad you wrote the trolley problem because I feel like if you are on the side of Ruth needs to die to liberate the island D you just not Go help her And h the storm let the storm kind of do its thing. We know where Rob stands. look Rob would kill Ruth. Hard disagree. I would give my life for Ruth personally. Okay. But I'm saying if you are on that side of things, there is a very dangerous component right here in the community that there' they are even laying out we need to go save Ruth from this. We need to bring her to the shelter. Well, it was a nice a nice way to establish Ruth is early in the episode, Ruth is not here. Yes. So whatever's going on with Ruth is going to be a secondary location Tom and then, you know mob that you're predicting will have to you. Did you find it odd at all? I think, especially in an episode that was this short and maybe even this thin from a certain point of view that we don't see Ruth whatsoever. We don't get any flash to like her at her house or anything. like what's she doing do you think? I mean Trying to work some kind of technology and failing miserably It's not going well, I'm sure. Yeah We're talking a lot about Ruth. And I feel like in a different kind of show there would be like a cut to Ruth at her house doing whatever she's doing and cut back. Clearly the show is withholding that. And I wonder like what is the dynamic that Tom is going to be walking into when he does get to her house? presumably, that's where he's going So your like is Ruth filming her only fans content You know what Live your life If we've learned anything from Euphoria, live your life Um couple things before we circle back to this rosemary moment, which is just so incredible The pre roosemary presentation is Wake coming into our office. We get this like really interestnteresting whale blubber comment from Wick where he talks about This was the dominant industry of the island up until his father's time. Yeah. So into the twentieth century. U and the captains like ruled the island. and we've had some indications of that of like you know, captains doing certain things. to have their way. does that Is that setting up anything for this season? Is it setting up something for future season? What do you think? I was really thrown by this.. It was an odd bit of like focus. likeike we're going kind of bringing it up a couple different times in the episode kind of framing things in this way. I mean, maybe there's a short term like What's what's the the expiration now whale blubber? Like if there's whale blubber down in the tunnels to work some torches, is that a thing that would still be functional after all these years? If you're a whaler P or Pst should be at Spotify.ot com to let us know How how one preserves Like can you just seal it in a jar like Jam? I was what you're saying? I would presume it's kind of already preserved slubber? Yeah. All fats go ranid, You know this is a shelf. Well, sure, but they have a much longer shelf life. Stable shelf life. Yeah.. Okay. You can keep lard out on your counter for a long time. Okay U And then did you freeze frray Mahoney on Rosemary's desk drawer I did. I was most intrigued by the three diet Coke cans. I couldn't tell whether they' empies or fulls. I tried like going with a No, they're fulls. You think they were fulls based on the way they rock This is what I was looking at. I was like, they feel full to me. based on someone who has an unfortunately very intimate understanding of the weight and density of a diet Coke can So we're glad to welcome Rosemary to the team. When she pulled up at the door, I was like, Rob will probably freeze frrame this, but I should do it to just in case he doesn't. And then when I saw that the die cooaxs were there I was like Rob certainly was all over this. Okay. My sister. you and Rosemary. She mentioned that it's a Castle Doctrine town. Do you know the difference between the Castle Doctrine and Standard Ground They feel of a feather to me. One needs to touch ground, No. Cital doctrine only applies to your home, your vehicle, or sometimes your workplace. Okay. And then standard ground is anywhere Cint your ground is anywhere any public place where you have a legal right to be break into someone's home and claim stand your ground, but you can in the Walmart, I guess I really underestimated how medieval Florida is You would think castle doctrine would be the more medieval than Standard Ground, but Standard Ground is holy shit. tough, Re fucking tough All right, let's get to Rosemary's presentation uh, she's She's smoking. Yep. Gott take a bre She's she's doing she's smoking Anne pres presenting. But she's got a break to light up. Oh yes hold for dramatic effect while I light my cigarett. This is just so Good. Like all of her muttered aside.. I just want to applaud Dale Dicky for this. I just think she's absolutely incredible. The first time I watched it, I was like a little impatient because I wanted it I was eager to know the answer And I was like, what are we doing? come on? as are Tom and Wake and Patricia. But the second, third, fourth, fifth, however many times I've watched it since, I'm just marinating in Every single delivery that she gives is so good. What are some of your highlights here? Well, first of all, I think the performance is great and not just hers but the reaction shot Olympics that are happening among the other three characters really delight. but structurally, like from a writing standpoint. Turning a like Game of Thronesy Star Warsy kind of like lineage reveal into like, you know what, we could just say this, we could make this dramatic, we could give you a flashback sequence and we kind of did. But also what if we just do like a full family multi generational family tree for a third of the runtime of this episode? It's a very funny thing to do Yes, there iss an impatience to it, but it's also so deeply funny. I think in part because of the bits. I mean, dead baby, dead baby, dead baby lesbian Happy pride.pp pr to everybody out there. The whole like, when he grows up, he won't be shooting blanks, he's a stun. All these Jeah rabbits, Jck of Rbbits. The family that swims together drowns together, that actually does seem like it should be an expression. And that's the first inaugural swim. Apparently They kept going after an entire family drowned together. I've seen Clarire Beelle's portrait, she thinks she's something The first time she went through it and she said the family that swims together drowns together, I thought that was like an incest comment. I thought so too. But then we got to the actual incest. She's like, none of my business in. I have children. In this case, they did. I mean, just like everything was so funny. I want to I wish I had been like a fly on the wall When Dale Dicky, breaking this down at home, figuring out how where she could find like milk the most comedy out of this came up with Jacka Rbbits as a pronunciation for Jacka Rabbits. It' so funny. I thought this was like a masterpiece of comedy. A plus stuff. Yeah. I have a question for you. I've written down a couple of my favorite names from the family tree. I would like for you to select your favorite of these. Thank you Hezekiah Callington. Really good Holllyoke Warren. Holyoke Warren. H hard to beat. Yeah. And then the last is a two for Sophia the Heretic who married Byron Fairclaw. Yeah. Which of those would you say is your favorite? Well, listen, Sophia the Heretic really made the best of it. Really too. D Warren really stood out to me. We did get an email about when when we when we and all the other listeners were predicting that it was going to be Evan. So the Warren family line passing down through Luren. R Um, one of our listers is like Does that make her Luren Warren? And as we know, the Warren name is not involved in all of this, but Luren Warren is very funny. So yeah. This whole sequence. I mean, again, it's just like punchline after punch line after punchline after punchline. And there's something about the specific delivery of next thing you know, your dad's dead and your stepmom is taking you on an adventure destination hell that was very Chris Farley and Tommy Boy to me. when he's like giving his like over the top like running off the rail speeches, trying to sell these brake pads There's I don't know of a higher compliment in comedy than I can give them that. I think also you know, all of her very passive aggressive, like stuff about Tom U I can't hear, I can't hear when the fan is on. This is this is usually when we just repeat Patricia Joes but it's Rosemary's Rosemar's. And then I think, oh, when she was left It's just like All the kids died a fascinating murder mystery. And then we don't have time to with the husband. Iope we get that story in season two I would love hope we get some of these stories. G us that f flashback. Yeah murder mystery. Yeah, yeah. Did you connect it all with person who has put a lot of work into a presentation and just wants everyone to know how much work you did Rob, I think you know I don't I say this because I personally also have a little we all have that in us. But rosemary's cooler than I am because at the end I would' have been like, did you like it? Was it good? You look thatat on the head in addition to the focus and patience. I really need I really need If I could be paid in affirmations, I would be. Guess what? you can Leave your comments below. hit J on social media. That's not how the interternet works for.. I tried It's deformations from the internet every single time One thing that we haven't really noted, but our listeners have been writing in for a couple of weeks about is that after the Um, drrug trip episode Um The hand turkey sort of thing Yeah. A lot of people have, if you rotate the hand turkey and sort of flip it That's the shape of the Widows Bay Island. Oh, okay. No it like really is. I mean, no, it like really is. And they keep showing that map. This was a little bit of a bridge too far for me. You're wrong. It's true. I think you've been on the lost island too long.ably not. I don't know about this one. On the sort of Jurassic Park Isl the Nublar comp that we were bringing up last week, when he when they look at like the sort of, is it a doppler map? Is that what it is? I think it's a Dopppler map. Yeah, the weather map. The overwhelming storm. With the hand Island But that was very Jurassic Park. a storm's a coming sort of moment. The shape of those hand turkeys is so loose. you could turn it and roorsack into literally anything. Google Image search Widows Bay Is I've seen the side by sideides. And it's true. I am not so compelled to think that that is it. Emma Ketcham or any other writer on Widows Bay? I'm happy to be wrong. I just personally do not see it. Please prove wr The one to one synchronicity All right, can I talk a bit more about orm stom of the century. I would love any series. Okay, wrritten for TV. so it's not based on a book. Stephen King wrote this for television U Stephen King miniseries like, you know, there's the It miniseries which is quite famous, Salem's Lot, which is quite famous. I really remember I think it was like the year or two before this. they did a shining minis series because Stephen King famously hates the Kubrick movie They did it with Stephen Weber from Wings in the Jack Torrance role. notot what I would have picked Yeah Here we've got Tim Daley from Wings is the lead of this particular endeavor. A very young Julianne Nicholson, like one of her very first roles as one of the townspeople, Basically what happens is in classic Stephen King fashion, a mysterious Man comes to town, this happens in needful thingsings, this happens in the stand, et cetera. Oh, the St minis series, also very good comes to town He knows all of the dark secrets of everyone on this island and he will just like say it to them. He'll be like Hey, remember when you gabashed a man, he lost his eye. You should go see his paisley eye patch, happay pride. L like that's like literally that's one of the secrets that he unearths. He just like walks around and tells people the first thing he does is he just kills the shit out of an old lady. I believe he beats her with his cane. Okay. And so I was thinking a lot about Ruth when I was thinking about this old lady who dies right at the beginning of this. But what happens is he's oldld ladies are not a monolith You're right. How dare you, friend How do you go from patriarchy good actually to this? The world may never know But after he's like terrorized the town, and then Tim Daley's character, as is often the case in these San King stories, is the sheriff and he is like, the Beacon of good and truth on this island and he refuses to like Get rid of this guy right away. He's like d do process. I believe in due process. But eventually there's this huge town meeting where this guy is a the who play by Canadian doctor Comfior comes in and just like tells everyone in the town their various secrets. and then he's like, I have but one wish and then I will go away and the storm will go away U I would like one of your children Give me one of your children. I need to like, u I need to T T train up an apprentice I need an heir to my demon ways and give you one of your children or else You'll go the way of Roanoak, the famed like colony that disappeared. he's claiming that he's the one who made Ran toer. Yeah. He's like, so either give me one of your children or I will take all of your children anyway and you will all walk two by two into the sea and Tim Daley, hero of the hours is like, we can't do this for our souls. We cannot do this. and it's basically him against the entire town. And he's like, we don't know that he has these powers to do this We don't know that he is like a supernatural evil. And if we make this decision to give up one of our children, like how do we live with ourselves after? which is the question that Patricia asks inside of this episode. What does this say about us U hisis wife, however, is like We gott to do it. We gott to give up a child The twist is, sorry, spoilers for this thing. It's Tim Daley and his wife's child is the one that gets taken because the whole town votes and they decide to give up a child, and then they draw lots. It's very much like Sirley Jackson's a lottery and it's his child. and then his child is taken. Yeah. And And then the epilogue is about how he moves to San Francisco and like, yadda, yada, yada. Yes. And then like a bunch of people who survived this incident on the island wind up killing themselves anyway because how do you live with yourself after you've done this compleompletely And I imagine in very Stehen King fashion, you never quite know if that mysterious man had the demonic power to do what he's because he's do. He's got fangs. But it's one like that have fangs and thing to be thing that comes to life. I'm gonna make you all march two by two into the sea. I don't know if you could overstate Yeah, could. like actors do on their CV when they're like, yeah I can ride a horse. Absolutely I can to learn to do it I shoot do that That's fine. So yeah, Patricia kind of standing in for this sort of like Tim Daily voice of like, we cannot do this for our souls sort of role the accent work inside of this particular nineteen ninety nine ABC miniseries is outstanding and fantastic. This is the same island that Dolores Clairborne takes place on just as a fun fact. Anyway, we've had a lot of liizitardors write in about it. I thought it was like worth, you know every because I couldn't think of another sort of like horror movie comp where this a storm has come to the island and we have to make a choice to sacrifice one people for the greater good of the island, the greater good. Like, I couldn't think of a better comp than this. Did you did anything come to mind for you? I was in the same kind of quagmire because yeah, most horror if To the extent you would even call it more There's the mist, which we've been talking about, But even the mist is something like a little more monstrous.. Like you, there is something within it that is very similar to Widow's Bay. Yeah, but is not strictly there is a storm that could kill us, right? It's not like in this case, even the mystical black tornado or cyclone It feels like a demonic but weather event. Should just call it a Nor Easter because that's Apparently this is ater a blanket Nor Easter. Yeah. I was kind of caught between like this isn't a pure weather disaster kind of story. R. And we have all these horror elements. like what is the midpoint of all of that? And I found myself in a similar space. I couldn't quite find that exact property, but you stumbled upon it and a lot of our listeners did. Our listeners are the ones that flagged this for me. I completely miss this in nineteen ninety nine when I was a senior in high school Shout out the nineties when like Stephen King could write an original story for ABC that would air on Valentine's Day and two other nights. so fun fact. Where did that go for us? What do we have now that we traded that off for? Nothing. No. We a We just gave away our child and got nothing in return. Exactly. Brutal else we want to talk about. On that idea before we move on the inversion of that concept of we're not treating a child, but we're treating this elderly woman potentially in her life Doing it for the sake of our children. I think is a a nice moral quandary to kind of riff on that idea. And this is this is another area where I'm just kind of waiting for that other shoe to drop. the kind of almost throwaway line from Bashir that he hasn't really told Shell about anything that's at stake yet I mean, for one, defefinitely starting to go in like to labor. It's Bron Hicks, don'try about we We have penultimate contractions.. This woman is going into labor in the finale. Fale baby. She does not yet know that her unborn child would be like locked to this island for life. Yeah I would think that information has to come out, and I would think that other people who are not quite aware of it would be upset by that information as well. Okay. aboutbout their own kids to clarif. So for the finale, we have everyone's in the shelter except for Ruth and Tom. Yes TJ, Glanville's there. The off Island girls are there. Evan's there, et cetera. Do you believe Evan when he said, I won't go anywhere to Tom He did seem oddly agreeable But seemed very earnest. It is, but they've had a like real they have, you know? There are sox games left in the season It's an emergency, and it feels like maybe this teenager under these circumstances is actually willing to listen to his dad. Okay. U you think Bashir is going to, at least Bashir is going to find out about the stakes of what's going on. I think he already has an inclination, but he hasn't really shared with Sheell anything that Patril But he doesn't know about the Warren Oh no, yes, question. I think Clearly, more people are going to have to be aware of the potential traade in play here. that someone, they may not know it's Ruth, but like someone will have to die or someone's will have to die And we'll see how they all deal with it We meet a couple differentm emmployees of the island. there's Kenny who uh Rosesemary will not let help pull the portrait off of Tom. a really funny. I wonder Jeff Hiller has not had a ton to do, but his delivery of like, horor f. H sciatica is acting up. We relate to her sciatic. really relate to That whole thing. she's like, Tom, don't move. Your lung may me collapse, Don't speak Really funny But we met Kenny who shows up and does a couple of things. We already met Garrett at the lighthouse. I'm sure we've met Kenny before. Perhaps he's the one who talked to the trash canan. I don't know the extent of Kenny's over role Um And then there's the guy on the radio. Yeah, bititch, I believe. Fitch Wh says it's all crumbling. It's all going. It's all going. Something to that effect. So what's going Island Buildings in storm of the century the lighthouse collapses into the ocean. is Garrett's lighthouse going Hope not because I am not ashamed to admit that the Garret bit works on me every time.'sase showed up in the window It's really funny. It's very one note, but it's like you could play that note over and over and I will laugh at it. I was thinking about the, you know, when protressor' like people have died Tom. I was thinking about who's died, right? So Todd, we presume Todd got sucked up into the Noreaster See how he survives that him and his tube socks. But great wire work, I thought. I thought it was really good. I also thought it was really good. Do you regret now You know, you work started knocking toddle a knock. It was like the one part of the show that didn't feel as part of the show. And now it's been sucked up into a storm Pro. You'relcome. You believe our gas station attendant is dead Certainly an EMT is dead. At least one EMT. How many EMTs can this island have U What do you think the lot the losing The one gas station attendant NMT and our drug dealer, is the infrastructure of the island undercut in any kind of way? Drug dealer. I think drug dealer is undercutting his spiritualism personally Is that cocaine? Okay, mayaybe it's not all spiritual Well plus, we got at least One of the sailors at the beginning that you alluded to in the cold open to show, Sep. Yeah. So maybe a couple people around the edges too who have kind of disappeared into these serious storms. That's half the commerce of the island. Yeah, I'm just like worried about the, I mean, it's no longer a whale blubber centric. It's not economy. They're trying to thrive on tourism and putting all of these people's lives at risk in the process because they didn't deal with their deep seated hauntings So let that be a lesson to all of us. I did love this rosemary sequence. obbviously in this episode. It's one of my favorite things that's happened this season. I did feel like it kind of Like should not have been Jerry's time to shine also. Jerry, historical Society. Would she not be the genealogy expert, but I guess that's Rosemary's job. I did think it was notable. the time for the white gloves is clearly over. We are just handling Sarah Warren's diary. Yeah. All kinds of hands. Yeah. Honestly, one of the like my favorite gags in this episode is when Patricia is explaining to Tom the connection between the finger and the diary whileile the portrait is still on him. While the portrait is on him and like is one foot away from him and throws it at him in a way that he just like cannot even move, bounces off his chest onto the floor jokes the jokes are still flying, but yeah, no one seems to have much regard for conservatorship anymore Anything else you want to predict for the finale or feel like like, well, here's the question. Well, we had been asking the question, do we think someone's going to be sacrificed? And if Ruth dies is that or does it need to be someone in that chair for you to feel like, you know, we got the sacrifice you were looking for? Well, let me ask you this before we even get there. Yeah. I mean, I talked about how I felt about Ruth being the secret warrant in general I somewone I would say you're even more theory inclined than I am. Did this feel both in who it was and how it was revealed like a satisfying conclusion to that mystery for you? Yeah, and I think especially, um wondering how it's all gonna play out in the finale is interesting to me. Like Cal having to confront Ruth and we've seen sort of their relationship all season. as Patricia says, like, you know, you often entrust your son to her. She might not be a great caretaker. She says, yes. So like And I really love that actress who's playing Ruth. so I think I'm really excited to see how this is all gonna to play out you know, so that's that is interesting to me. Evans stuff was still like incredibly compelling and interesting to me. Yeah. And I'll be interested to see like if she does die in the finale Tom's hand or anything else Is that it? Is it over Or is there more to come because we want a season two, three, four, five, six of the show? I think you're starting to feel it with Widows Bay. Like the Hland style temptation of we have something, it works. I wouldn't say Ruth is like as much of a dramatic lead, but the idea of putting the curse to rest would be putting to rest this version of the show. I don't know what you would do after that. I don't think they can do. I don't think they can wrap it. I don't think I don't think they can wrap it up in the finale because I think they want more seasons of this show as do we. As do we? Yeah. So either Ruse does not die or the genealogy chart Oh is not quite complete. You're besirching Rosemary's work. Absolute the transparency on the overide protector. thirty minutes. And a lot of that was just marker on transparency I will say Patricia said she might already have that genealogy. so she might have had a lot of that already written out Written out, though Maybe. O transparency. She's just waiting for her mom. Pennanship is excellent. If she had to if I had to like rush that present though she was in no rush. But if I had to like whip together that presentation, my penmanship would not have been as good I don't think any of ours would have been. Okay. It was stirling all around. the pacing, the thunder crashes dramatically speaking. she had it all worked out. Also the score this season Yeah, also like I guess because she would have had to Photocopy Ruth city bad onto a transparency, alsoso her like while the power is a precious resource. Yeah. Also her like, What was it like Miss Widows Bay, ninet nineteen fifty nine nine or whatever. Yeah. Shout out to Ruth. Yeah, shout out to Rush. She's lived a life. She's doing her thing I will say this was a Would you kill an old woman to save your h? I already said no I'd be out there trying to sc. I thought I would hit you again and see if your answer had changed now that we've talked about it. It has not changed. I know how you feel about killing old women, but Not all of us feel that way for the whole isyelid. Wow. Act no, here's what I would have done Yeah I would tell Ruth And I would say, you want a guilt trip Ruth? No, I just give her an option You don't have to do it. No worries if not. The whole island but you would depend suic. could save the whole island to your choice Would you save the whole island if it was you? Yes If I had lived as long as Ruth had lived, that's easy, I think. She might have a lot left to do. I'm sure she does. you know, I feels like we're being very presumptuous about Ruth's life. PVot This is the trolley problem It is the trolly problem. PressTV Spotify comot if you have a strong opinion one way or another about what you would do if you were Ruth or if you were off to murder Ruth. Yeah. Anything else you want to say. Here's one thing I do feel strongly about. This was the end At least as far as I could see a bit of brooch watchatch, know. Oh, because Ruth I mean, what else is it going to tell us that we don't already know unless there is a second warren out there who has this broch. But we even get a cl putting it. Are you putting Evan back on the table? I'm not putting anything back on the table. Okay. To me, it's just like we've had so many indications, including within this episode, in the flashback of like, let's zoom in on this broch And then the reveal, we're just gonna tell you over a transparency slide, which may just be kind of like a misdirect and haha, this is funny. Fair enough We were just kind of waiting to see that brooch on somebody or in somebody's desk drawer or like dresser or whatever I don't know what it would do for us at this point that we don't already know. So if it's at Ruth's house, you're like, what's the point Yeah, dont I don't know that we needed all that. Okay And now our brroush wash has ended I think misdirect. We have to keep the lighthouse on just in case. What if it's crumbled to the sea already? Well then we're officially fied Because of a cyclone and or a tornado T many disasters at play. I feel like we did it. I mean this is already longer than the episode. We'll we be back for Cpe Far. I'm really excited for the finale. I'll be really sad when this is over. Very much so. I don't know if you've experienced this, but I just like we already mentioned early in this season, but I just have really been feeling like every week The noise around this show has been growing and growing and growing and growing and people are just like completely obsessed about it. And arere you watching it, et cetera, et cetera. I don't exactly know what the numbers are, but This feels like And you know, on the heels of Pleurbus, which was a great hit for Apple, Obviously the severance phenomenon. like I've I've Simes made fun of like the Apple TV programming in the past because like sometimes it can be spottyy but like it's been hit lately. They're finding their lanes. if they're like we're doing, they're finding their brand. like and originally they were just sort of like, we've got Oprah and Steven Spielberg and Reese Witherspoon and like that's who we have, right? And now if they're like We do weird little sci fi things. You know, and they try to do big sci fi IP, right? Like foundation and stuff like that, but like if they're like We've got Sverance and Pleurbus and Widows Bay, these incredibly original like Fine, quirky theory, shows, etcetera, etcetera We got your summertime trashrapce theater. found we found a paperback in an airport. Certainly did. That was once made into a great movie and now we're going to make it into a weird TV show and we got some you wouldn't believe to be in it. There are bodily fluids on these pages you don't even want to ask questions about So, you know, and then, u, whatever else may come. So like I think I think those two things have been quite successful for them And we'll see what else. There's a bunch of shows on Apple that don't feel like they exist, but there are some that are really breaking through in a more consistent way. I wonder in the former category as we're kind of lumping this with a severance or a plurbus or shows like that how this particular episode will land with the people who have been loving Widows Bay. Because for me, I'm gonna be honest, like this show does not hang on its mysteries for me. They're a fun seasoning, little side project. but ye, I'm here for the horror, I'm here for the goofs, I'm here for the character work. All that stuff is kind of front and center. And then I'm just kind of intrigued by what's around the corner But if you have been living and dying with the background of every frame, I think the show has largely rewarded that And Ruth is the secret of wararren and you feel underwhelmed by that revelation I'm just I'm eager to see how people take this episode. Well, but I feel like people will be underwhelmed no matter what. That's just the nature of the of the of the human existence of the Reddit Yes, and of the Reddit detective. Because like if it had been Evan And they would have been like, yeah, we figured that out like weeks ago. So there's not underwhelming thing is being right can be or, you know, yeah, or there's some satisfaction. I figured it out and I was right. There's that. If it's like a completely the thing that's great about Ruth is sometimes in a theory show The answer is not what the breadcrumbs have been laid towards, right? So it's not that, But it's so far afield that in like some of the later West World seasons That it's just like very clear that the showrunner was so intent on outsmarting the people watching the show that they came up with an answer that like does not really make logical sense. But Ruth makes like this is a character who has been here Right under our noses. Right under our noses. And I think it's an interesting question of like What would you do If an elderly Unmarried doesn't have children women. You know, The first real spinster a trro old mid A trro old maid. But so really, I think what you're articulating is like You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you still might find you get what you need. Well Janine. what did what did you hear on the spooky radio sounds that were playing when Tom was going out to the lighthouse? Mostly that he couldn't turn his volume down, which sounds like my personal nightmare. Like no volume control. Like I don't even know what's gonna come out of this thing, but I have no control over it. Iify. I don't know what the second song was, but I'm pretty sure I think the first song was Bohemian Rhapsody because I heard anyway the wind blows. But I don't know that if I were Apple, I would pay for Bohemian Rhapsody just for a garbled radio sort of sound. Well how much do you have to pay for rights if it is a sliver of a snippet that has been manipulated? I wonder if you could find out Is there a of Bhemian Rhapsody and just garble that into the radio or just have someone Freddiey the Meruries tribute band covering Bohemian Rhapsody Eactly. It was the vampire real thing. The vampire ofat does Bohemian Rhsody. Incredible. Anyway, heard what those songs were or Emma cetatchem if you want to let us know F CTV Spotif dot com. Let's wrap it. We did it We're back with Cape Far, we're back with a finale. We okay, should we let's announce it. Okay. Why not We do want to say for the W of a finale. We're not sure yet if we're going to do it live. If we do wind up doing live like we did for the Euphorei finale, watch our socials. we will announce. We will definitely let you know. Yeah yeah, but we're not sure yet. it depends on the NBA playoffs and finals, sorry, unfortunately. As does literally everything in my life. Okay. Just like, will this series go to six games determines my entire schedule in existence? Here are things I know. Okay The sppurs. Yep. Wamby Sure. The Spurs one, so the Nicks will not get it in four. That's true. But they could get it in five. They could. And Timothy Chalamay, among many others would be very excited if they did. As would at least one S safty brother. As would Spike Lee. Okay. Stiller Ben Stiller Michelle Geller Is she a Ns fan? She posted phot of her in Freddy Prince juni. in like the nineties at a Ns game and she's like, Nicks fan day one. They' my hometown team. I was like, all right, it's a little bandwagon sure. SMG, but okay. And Hathaway legit. Okay. you know, it's a star studed row over there. Which stars are rooting for the spurs? You know, it's not a deep list. I don't have anyone. Chay Serano, you know, It's San Antonio. It's a different caliber of thing out there, but you know what Thats don' have Donald Trump showing up their game. So You wouldn't send you lose some. I think that's a real win. I'll trade all the Challmise in the seam for no Donald Trump in my game. Okay. Thankk you to whale Blubber. Yeah. preserved or not. Thank you to three very full cans of dia Coke in the back of a drawer Thank you to Rob Mahoney. Thank you Jo. Thanks to De Ronaldo. Thanks to Kai Crady. thans Jacob Cornet And we'll see you soon for Cape Beer. Bye