Looking Ahead to Season Two

This summer, fan dool is the best place to bet on goals. Including equalizers, Uhuh? Yeah, Petters. Every goal is worth more on fan dool. So let there be goals. New customers get three hundred fifteenion bonus bets guaranteed when you bet five dollars for seven days. twenty one plus in presence and select states. First online real money wager only, minimum five dollar wager required for seven consecutive days, five dollars fif first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withrawable bonus bets, which expires seven days after receit ts at famfool dot com slashortsurn Gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My Reset. This episode is brought to you by America's cookout cllassics, Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Meyer. This summer, we're celebrating two hundred fifty years of American cookouts with all the classics. Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Meyer. Rob, what's your ideal cookout scenario? First of, I want you on the ox. I trust you with that sacred responsibility to pick our music I'm gonna to have to man the grill, and I'm gonna need like a copious amount of condiments. I need every possible fixion imaginable. Well, make sure to top your burger with only the best, Heinz Ketchup and Kraft singles. And you know, it's not a cookout without Heinz, ketchup and mustard. Different vibes, same ingredients. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Meyer. Shop at your local retailer Hello, welcome back to the Pst TV podcast feed. I'moordor Robinson. I'm Rob Mahhone. We are live to cover the Widow's Bay finale It ended mere moments ago on the Apple platform Yeah. Linear TV ish. Yeah, ish. I don't know how how Appointment television Wing, Widow's Bay is the Apple release. I think people tend to watch sort of here and everywhere I think a lot of people are like, isn't this a Wednesday show? It's a Tuesday night show, folks. Here's the thing if anything was going to establish that level of instant credibility, we have to be on top of it It does seem like Widow's Bay as people frothen, you know, Kind of appointment television. So episode ten. we hope you enjoyed your time Directed by HararI, written by Kay Dippold. So like Y All Star team is here. That's incredible. I also think that dudo is going gonna be on the watch this week. That's what I.. I know, veryery exciting Here's what we're going to Usually we start with a mail bag.'s there's too much to talk about. We're not going to start. We have some emails. we'll get to them, but I want to start Well I guess, first and foremost, did you like thispisode of television Rob Mahoney I adored this episode. Tell me why. I really loved it. I mean To me, it's less about the big mystery stuff. We talked about that some last week. Turns out, there's another secret warrant, great And more of the friends we made along the way. It's less even the friends we made along the way than the friends we may or may not be deciding to kill along the way. And the way that we have this mystery reveal, and then we're just kind of dancing around it with big philosophical conversation that only one member of the conversation even knows that they're having. Yeah, I love that. And I think that you know, from the start, I was excited that Kate Callen was in this cast who plays Ruth because I know her from the Superman show from the nineties, but also she was a knives out. and she's just like, she's a real like Like stealth like star and she's really the star of this episode. Steals it. Absolutely Though, of course, Matthew Reeese incredible in episode. and the way that Matthew Rese inside of this like little horror comedy conspiracy show The drama, like I felt like I was watching the Americans for a second with like his conflict, the way his brow is wrinkled as he's just sitting there marinating in the like grief and guilt over what he felt like he had to do Ruth. I thought that was likes it's a funny episode. as is all Widows Bay. It's a tense episode, but like I just think it's a very well acted Dama moment. very much for Tom There's so many individual moments that I want to like spotlight within this episode But the moment where I knew They had this finale dialed in, notot a surprise given the way the season has gone, but I was like, okay, I feel like I'm in especially good hands to close out this story in the way that is going to be satisfying to me personally. is when Tom shows up and Ruth after he kind of catches her by surprise on the treadmill where she's you know, just doing a casual two miles. No big. No big. And she gives him the like Oh, like I thought you forgot about me And the brief pause as Matthew Rese goes full Americans the inner tornment of Tom before he lets out the never. Yeah. I was like, okay, we are we are cooking with something. We are in a register that I think this is just really gonna to hit U Speaking of which, I can't remember we've talked about this already, but There's been a bit of a sort of resurgence on the Americans as people are discovering what Matthew Reeese can do. I feel a lot of Reaissance. Okay A Reseusance? Yeah. Maybe. That sounds like it's about Rhese Watherspoon, but then it's not. Oh Matthew Rhesus on. Yeah, haveave you heard of it? We're live. Okay. we are drinking Sunset cocktails as configured by our producers and wonderful producers. Okay Here's a first question that I want to talk about how the message got lost. This is a question that you've been Asking all season is like, who knows what? Yeah? You're like, there has to be people around who know what what this means, you know, and we hear from Rutan we'll get to it, a litany of Strange and unusual things that have happened to her family. but here's what I pieced together from the context clues that we got in this episode So Ruth mentions Mayor Howard the coward. And she says, surprised when he left. I was surprised when he left, but people get scared Right So if there was a process of passing the message down one mayor to another And And we got an email about this that we haven't heard anything about Tom's predecessor. You know, if If Howard the Coward, I don't know if he was like named as Tom's direct predecessor, just someone that Ruth worked for. I think there probably would have been a gap just based on the time timing. Yeah Um But if he left and didn't like perhaps he found out what he had to do and he just got the fuck out of there rather than do it and didn't pass that information down to the next person That's one way the message could have gotten lost Rosemary's predecessor saying don't go down there into the basements or Rosemary's predecessor knew like as recently as that. Yeah, but didn't tell Rosemary why not to. When and her predecessor might not have known exactly. It's just like one of these things that becomes an urban legend, you don't go into that place. And then I was thinking about Reverend Bryce's predecessor, right? The note that Reverend Bryce found To the Rirector of the church, I pray that this burden will never fall to you. but should the bell toll, these are the steps you must take on the north side of the rectory, there is a chamber where you will find d dotot. Reverend Bryce instead of taking on that job killed himself. Yeah, right? So like How does something this big, this mass conspiracy, this social contract of the island get lost? And it's just sort of like one by one by one, the message did not get passed down to the person who took it. that's sort of my assessment of what's going on. Do you agree? What's happening with? I do concur, especially that kind of chain of command, right? It's not as simple as mayor to mayor to mayor to mayor, because whether they were cowardly, whether they drew a line in the sand morally, whether they just refuseed to believe that any of this supernatural stuff was real, even as people were getting bitten by animals and turning into those animals Every mayor is able to draw the les for themselves and that's where ye pastors, priests, citizens of the town, other people might have gotten involved at various points to keep the chain going, to keep the island surviving to whatever extent it has. Well, there was a council, like a council that was formed, which we saw in the flashback episode. and then in the Re to Reel that Dale watches, there is like a council mentioned, right? There was a council Who was on it and how did it dwindle? and how did that message get lost Let's look at the rules as we understand Every time a bell rings, an angel gets its wings and also every time a bell the bell rings The island is demanding a soul because it's hungry. You mentioned this, like that the bell was a dinner bell, right? for the island feed the island Right? In the flashback, we saw we heard Five bells toll on the night of Sarah's wedding night in the flashback. And so that's when the mayor knows, I got to go, you know, Richard Barren's like, I got to go kill some people, right Um Nine bell tolls earlier this season One guy gets fed To the to the u hatch U now it's eight. And then they were eight. So the island's still hungry still demands eight souls. Well this is ammuse bouche. You know, we're just wing the appetitees. Appetes. Yeah I mean, do you think the island is growing You know, from Richard Warren's time to now is it just going get to be more and more and more every single time? Well, we did get an email of someone noting, you know, when I went through the timeline the other day of sort of the things that have happened on the island. They were like, you'll note that there's sort of like a mass casualty event so what's the chicken and the egg, right? Like is it the storm is created because the island is hungry and angry? Y or you know, and that creates the crash or a shipwreck or cannibalism, whatever the case may be and then the island is sated because it has been fed those souls. But if they're eating each other, that they're not feeding the hatch, so I don't know if that counts. This is the trolley problem within the trolley problem, right? If you're creating all the way down. If you're creating a council. Yeah, as far as we understand from the reels, deemocratically vote who you want to feed to the island. Who's bad? Wh Who are the bad guys? Yeah, whoo can we live without? I mean Jo if If we had to do this at the ringer Oh if we had to democratically vote someone to sacrifice to our metetaphorical island here at the studio. Yeah. Do you have you have any nominees you' going to give up? In order to preserve my relationship with everyone, I will throw myself into w I don't believe that for a second. Your answer is I simply wouldn't vote. I also would vote for you No but really, who should we put into the hatch? I don't know. Well, we obviously can't throw like Ty or Dev or Jacob into the h. No noou our instrumental show. No, no, no. We're the councselor Yeah B' safe. I mean, wouldn't wouldn't Chris Ryan want to do what's best for us? Speaking of Chrises, do you think Chris is gonna go Uh Shitty Chris and on Widow's Bay is gonna go into the hasash next season? He sucks. She's the worst. I thought you were talking about I thought the guy is the guy not also named Chris who is fussy about the MREs? Ohs that's that guy struck me as an off island douche. Oh he's off Isouch. I mean, you can't trust anyone off Is. like the newness of his fleece, he seems like an off Island douche. You don't think they're getting new fresh fleece? They don't even have cell phones. I don't think There's not a north face on here Tough. You didn't want to shout out LLV again. You're going to North fase. Okaykay. U So yeah, there's a council of some kind or once upon a time Yeah in at least the fifties or sixties, which is buy that guys short sleeve collared shirt and tie. that's a win not real to real A counil some kind votes on who descend into the pit The bad times will not end until the covenant is honored and honored fully O soul for each bell tooll. Their fear is necessary. They say it likes the taste. I don't like that Who's it commuting to that it expresses its desire for the taste of fear? Well, clearly, Richard Warren was in Congress with the beast think Tom has been. You think other people are mushrooming and sort of intoning into the darkness? I don't know how many people are even allowed, right to summon to be a part of those particular conversations. These are senior staff only, you know, Upper level management Um Something that we should note is that when Evan, who by the way, for the slanderer of Evan, Evan was the only teen who did not run away and like abandon what was happening that hatch. He tried to get that door open as he he could or whatever. Not his fault. The door unlocked itself Right? Yeah or the entity unlocked it. I don't know, which is worse And then The hatched doors are slightly ajar. Were they always a jar? I don't think they were always a jar. No No. And the trails of blood and the lit flashlight. Oh yeah, you know. It win, but I'm just saying the fact that the door is still open bothers me. Like, you know, the entity wasn't like I'm All fful until the next eight and close the door is like the door is still ajar. As someone who has been at this office basically from sun U upp until now, has it occurred to you that these doors might not unlock until it's done with you? Why are you outing fact that I have been here all day? You work hard and I want the people to appreciate it All right, let's talk about Ruth and Tom and the trolley problem You know, something I noted when we were asking sort of who the warrant to send. And by the way, thank you for your one million emails being like, Hey, dumb dum. It' probablyably still Evan. Obviously Evan. You guys are so dumb. We are quite credulous sometimes. I don't know what to tell you. Why'd you just think it's Ruth? It's also Evan. Okay, so it is Evan or is it Yeah, it is. Okay, um But Tom, as I noted when we were discussing Evan as a possibility earlier this season, in almost every, I think in every single episode some version of is Evan Okay Right? And he does so again in this episode., you know, like, tells Patricia to look after Evan over the walk he is asking if Evan is okay. So I just like really liked You know, not only establishing Tom's genuine care for him, but just sort of like the question of the show is Is Evan okay? Like is he going to be okay with this in like Tom has his information. Yes. so And going into season two where I think I had always been for some reason thinking about finale if it was going to be Evan, that it was going to be Tom who was left with this choice potentially of like, what do I do? right? wouldould he even be willing to sacrifice his son? obbviously not for the sake of the island? And where does that drive story? Where does that drive drama? If he's not going to be willing to give up his son, where's the conflict? You got to find eight people to feed into the hat. You got to find a bunch of people and now I think we have this reat tension going into season two where B sheer knows that somebody is a secret Warren, but doesn't know who. And Tom is protecting Evan clearly, but also needs to get his own Richard Warren on and be smuggling some bodies down into the cellar if he wants to keep Evan out of trouble Is that what the future seasons are? Is it this sort of like Little Shop of horrors feed mee thing where like he's gonna have to like feed Randos That's a musical's reference. I understand You know well that I'm familiar with Little Shop of horrors. How dare are you I've never been condescended to more than during the middle of this episode when we were re watching it together and you're like, as's fanom of the Opera I don't know, right? How d You're anti musical, and you're like, I know Danna, but like, listen there's a lot you don't know. You can tell me when it's like a jellical ball reference and that I'm not getting, please do. Yeah. But come on here Opera.. Little shop of horrors. Yeah. All right, we'll get the list of all the musicals you know later. materials But yeah, like we'll wrap this up with like who knows what and what that means going Because what I like about this episode is like a bunch of different people get little pieces of the puzz No one has theull puzle So Ruth and Tom U The medical chart, Ruth's medical chart you I both laughed. How did do you feel about that? Just her thyroid levels? Wow. I want that on my chart. We can all be so lucky I do have like for some reason, incredibly good blood pressure. and every time I think doctors expect I won't have good blood pressure and they take my blood pressure and they're like, you have the blood pressure of a teenager. I'm like, thank you, now There's so many other things wrong with me, but I do have that. It's nice to prove people wrong sometimes, you know Pxycodone and diazepine. Yeah I just don't think a person should be on those two things, even if they have a note that says, don't take them together. I did Google this. You should in fact not take them together. Seems like a bad idea I did not have the nark in me knew that you did not have to I did not have to Google that. Have you ever snooped through someone's medical medicine cabinet? No. Okay. I've never really seen the appeal Like, am I what am I to see? there heemorrhoid cream? Like what's the great secret? Yeah, what are people asaming It's cool, man.' pro mental health. need those You need that well vutrin? You'd take that well vutrin. The rain slicker, like Tom standing outside of her house in the pouring rain in the rain slicker Mary, I know what you did last summer, very serial killer. Oh ye And he's so cold like emotionally in those moments when he's first getting to the house. Be he's trying to like steal him steal himself to do this. I love structurally Tom spends the vast majority of this episode, like trying to talk himself into and excuse himself. Not only that get Ruth to tell him it's the right thing. He wants her to forgive him before he even does it. Yeah. spends most of the episode doing that, and then just like the last flickering instance trying to find every reason to save her. And it's like that's just like a great way to set up a finale like this. I really agree What do you think Ruth listens to on treadmill? Is she a podcast girlly? She is definitely not a podcast girlly. Okay. Does she know about podcasts? So is like big bands, do op Po. Poka. Yeah. I mean, I'm check. Maybe I'm just inclined to think that old ladies listen to poka, but that's where I come from. I don't think women, if you're listening this podast, what do you listen to on your treadmelt? I really I think the BPMs are good for polka to be honest with you. I think it could really get the heart going Yeah, you're right. A jaunty breast. That's all you really need. Okaykay. Eerbgarden situation. Here's the deal. Okay first small I have a small herb garden. That's? Yeah Bter Garden's gone in that storm It's not surviving that storm Depends on what plants. Basil, you can flamethrow that thing. Secondly The chomile and Lavender. She's on that she makes L There's no way you can smuggle pills into that thing Not only is it gritty,'s they would be bitter. Yeah. Would they not be? And like a lavender chamomile, if it's like a a Sturdy cup of Earl grreay, like a bitter cup of Earl gray. like you could that's Foccus of realest at home, That's the Tita drug That's what you do. But like an herbal tell people But an herbal design like can you can't smuggle it in under that under those light floral flavors. You can't do it. Well, especially the greater context of this entire sequence when Tom first gets to the house is like showing all the ways in which Ruth is living a rich and full life This is not the kind of well like she she is knows Inside and out, the taste of every herb that's in that tea. Like she would know if anything is off, much less texture, much less bitterness. like this is not the woman you can pull a fast one on, despite everything we were kind of told earlier in the season. All season, we were like, this is a this is an elderly lady nothing. but she's like, she's tired in the middle of the day. She needs enough. But whence she's alert, I get alert at night.. And she's tired in the middle of the day becausecause she also needs the excuse to go help her other elderly friend up and down pork steps. Deirra shout out to Deirra, real one I'm going to come back to the. I mean off all the things I love and admire about this episode. One of them is We don't get here to this particular endgame if Tom cared about Ruth enough to actually show up to her house earlier in the season. Right if anything about her actually know about her life. He probably would have known the reveal four episodes ago. if he had actually been helping her to work. Yeah. She might have told him about Lawuren posossibly. And so Tom is out here doing a bunch of things he says are for the good of Widows Bay And Ruth is out here living of Widows Bay. Like she's the one who wants to be part of a community who wants to help other people. she is a genuinely good person who is offering hands to everyone around her. She's the one who will take in Evan in part 'cause it's her grandson. but on the one hand, yes, on the other hand, when she gets good and doped up and starts telling her story, like that's not necessarily like a good person' story. She's lived a life She's made some choices. She made some choices. she's rectifying with those choices in a way that Tom, it takes him way too long to do the very same. Her cross stitch quote, a Tennessee Williams quote, The world is violent im material, It will have its way with you. We are saved only by love, love for each other, and the love that we pour into the art we feel compelled to share, being a parent Being a writer, being a painter, being a friend. we live in a perpetually burning building And what we must say from it all the time is love Ch Tennse William Um Really impressed with her dexterity and eyesight that she was able to cross stitch that entire passassive quote into tiny letters ono her cross. Well, she couldn't read her own stitch handwriting by the end of it, but listen, it's tough. but u The philosophy that pours out of Ruth in this sequence incredible. When she talks about like The trolley is life and I'm the lever. Like all of that is just really good stuff, really well, well performed. I just think this whole conversation and that debate, like This is an action set piece. you know, like this is high drama and it is like when I think about what I want out of finale, yeah, you want Bir coming in with the gun. you want some kind of monstery element here on Widows Bay I want people having these kinds of conversations and really reckoning with what it means to live in a place like this and what you're willing to excuse. and withith all due respect to Patricia who I won't say a bad word about, she hasn't really had time to articulate her perspective on not killing Ruth other than it's a bad thing to kill a person What Ruth is saying here is it's not just bad to kill a person, but the act of choosing to kill a person for this reason. Y is the choice you never come back from. And I am not willing to do that. L I am willing to live in a chaotic world. I am willing to try to bring love into it however I can at the end of the day, Tennessee Williams style but it simply wouldn't be me Can we put Tennessee Williamsyle on the p card for this I think that and what I love about the way that this finale works out because she's not dead despite being shot in the head. I think we need to talk about that. Yeah. But she's not dead. And so you know, first of all, Bashir of course is the one who who pulled the trigger. so Tom pllausible deniability there, but like it's at least partly his fault. Oh, it's definitely partly his fault, but he hasn't really fully pulled that lever yet decision is that trolley problem is there's just eight more people on the trolley than he understood there to be. But he's still got to decide whether or not to pull that lever or can he like weasel his way around it and figure out how to make other people pull the lever for him or something like that. true. I mean, I think it's such an interesting refraction of the stuff we get from Wick and Tom earlier in the season about how he's a coward, right? Yeah. him being a coward kind of stops him at least at least gives him after poisoning Rof, the moment of clarity to want to go saf her. Yeah. Like I think those things are folded into each other. But it also does just leave open the window for Bashir to come in and do something dangerous and violent and impulsive But he's also doing that thing for the same reason that Tom has been doing so many things we learn over the course of this season. Like when Ruth is unconscious because he drugged her and he's kind of giving her his last confession before what he assumes will be her death, What he says is that like his wife warned him about all of this. And then when she had her stroke, it basically confirmed for him that the curse of Widows Bay is real, that all of the supernatural shit is real and dangerous. And he knew that. And the father in him wanted Evan to have as rich a full life as he could and wanted to bring other stuff to Widows Bay. And the mayor in him, who should have known that's a terrible fucking idea, invited it all in anyway Here's what I think is really interesting. A question've you and I have been sort of debating all season is sort of like Tom know, when did he know it? What does he believe in? And the answer was more complicated than either of us were sort of drilling down on because you were like, well, surely he knew because he didn't take Evan off Island. and it's like he knew on some level. Yeah He was in deep denial about it But what I love about this is like, It's very final season of Breaking Bad. like I did it because I liked it. When he says, I wanted more for him. Yes. And then he says and myself. Like he's he is looking at himself in the mirror here and he's just sort of like Let me be really honest. Again, Matthew Rese delivering that whole speech of like, I laughed it off, I teased her about it don't understand why I didn't just listen. And this is sort of like a larger theme of the season this like working theory In terms of like how did the message get lost I don't know if this is over overreaching, but there's this idea of like Do we listen to our elders? Do we listen to people And it's just like people have been telling us all season about what's going on and R rattles off like, you know, all of these strange, you know, my dad got taken by a monster in the lake. Yeah. My aunt Betdy just stopped talking, you know, what I mean? We tried to build a trolley and all the workers disappeared. But like What Rosemary knows? Like all the old timers in the bar who were like going Tom into going into the hotel, right for the night Um And then the old timer that they literally shut the door on in last week's episode. But like if you listened to these old people, perhaps we would have more pieces of the puzzle than we have at this point, you know? It's just everyone who's a little bit younger feels like they have all the answers or all the resources or like agile to the modern world in a way that acclimates them better to solve these contemporary problems when, These contemporary problems have been going on for hundreds of years because they are surprise mythical and demonic in nature. This summer, fanoo is the best place to bet on goals. includcluding equalizers. Uhh? Y, headters. Every goal is worth more on fanoo. So let there be goals New customers get three hundred and fiftyion bonus bets guaranteed when you bet five dollars for seven days. twenty one plus in present and select states. First online real money wager only, minimum five dollar wager required for seven consecutive days. five dollars first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus betets, which expiire seven days after receivivet restestrictions applies, see full terms at famamtool. com slash sportsbook. Gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset Looking to see what's happening around your home? Ring's battery doorbell helps you track packages and see who's at your door in real time The Outdoor Cam pllus protects your yard at night with a wide field of view and clearer retinal two K video. orr upgrade to four K cameras and doorbells with retinal vision for ultra clear zoom in detail. Your door, your yard, your home. With Ring, it's protected. Shop cameras, doorbells, and more at ring d. com now This episode is brought to by Netflix. The T mobile homeome runun derbies right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and all sports baseballs Biggest sluggers. along with some legendary Announcers, Puhos, Rizzo, Bonds, Sabathia L Duncan Yeah Pence, Matt Fast Kurzian, a whole bunch of people And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. You swing. History. I'm interested is who Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Park In Philly, watch the T mobile Home rununs be live on Netflix Monday, july thirteenth at eight PM Eastern five PM Pacific This is not really a Patricia and Wick episode, which is fine because they've had their time in the sun not you know, Rosemary is also here and great as always, but shes she's had her time to shine. Bir and Shell Um Ber's desperation. I like that we don't even have to see Patricia explain to him what's going on. We just like He's trying to get to the bottom of the case and that he shows up, you know, Like I think I thought all of that was done really, really well. I thought his inclusion in this episode is Perfect for the character he's been and wheres what he's been going through all season. and we've been laughing at his exasperation and just like the reactions in those moments are really great for comedy But when you really zoom out He's a character who despite the fact that he is in charge of the law enforcement on the island, has been given no information. at least like two steps behind. I know, where did that information get lost? Right. L Tom law enforcement. Tom always knows more Lately, Patricia and Wick have known a lot more than Ber. And so the fact that he is constantly playing catch upp as far as what they know is what makes him so desperate in this moment, where for him, like the the clock is ticking, right? Like he is acting in a way where his child's life will be decided by what happens in the next couple hours. That's his understanding. Sheell is literally in labor. Right based on the information he has. And he has less than Tom to process it. He has less than Patricia Wick to process it. And so it's another case where If he had just been looped in earlier, He might be making different decisions in a moment like this, or it might be a collaborative conversation between the four of them in a moment like. Well, that's like, you know, something I've been thinking about a lot because we've been covering these Batman movies on how Samar, Th these Christopher Nolan Examination of a society in a city. it's really a gu. You were wondering which was gonna to break firstirst Bashir's spirit body? b But them The social contract, the benevolent lie, They like the lies we tell to keep a society running is it ever excusable Yeah. Does everyone Is a society better if everyone has all the information? you know att the end of the day? This is something we think about with the last of us as well. All right All right, Dale, we've been waiting for Dale Jeff Hiller's character to get a really big moment. I would say we still haven't seen all that Jeff Hiller can do But like but he got a job, run for life. The death drop is really good. But this is where I want to talk about an amalgamation of reference of lost reference. I mean, this is just your moment. Can we just get a spotlight in here right on Joe for this? Well,isten, okay, so the television series lost. Yeah, which you know, I love to bring up at a drop of a hat that you binged recently, I think so that you would like be able to understand what the fuck I was talking about. So couldve in your general orbit Um, you know, Widows sppace and severance and all the other shows are like, of course, forever inspired by I they go into shelter number three Yeah was really exciting for me because that means there's shelter number one and shelter number two elsewhere on the island. Theoretically. Other hatches, other stations. And this is a thing in lost is like, there's the swwan station, there's the Parl station, there's the Flame station, and there's like different information. And so you know, they've got some pieces the puzzle here, but are there other pieces of the puzzle in other shelters around the island. That's possible. That's now that Dale's just like full on, he got a job with the Darma initiative, basically. Right The real to real. Yeah. So the real to real, we mentioned this I think when we saw like the VHS video earlier this season, but the real to real of like, so. So you're an offering. So you're a ritual sacrifice, like like That's so lost. You can'tstand it. And I'm can. And I'm like I'm thrilled about it. I love that there's like a real for them, like for the sacrifices and for you, the one who's doing the sacrificing. When I watched this episode at home and I saw the real come on, I was like, Joe is gonna be Bust into talk about this so And then I don't think this is a lost reference, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway. when she's talking about Deirra There's this part in Season one. where John Locke is hallucinating Boon u in a very trippy a drug trippy sort of sequence. And bo boon keeps saying Teresa goes up the stairs, Teresa goes down goes down the stairs. goes up Da goes up the stairs, Dea goes down the stairs. Anyway, if you Press yourTV at spotify dot com if you spotted other loss references that we missed. Could easily be But that was just like really delightful and delicious to me. Just a dart in the middle of the board. I really need a character like Mcle with like an eye patch who can't die. That would be really exciting to me. Well, mean is D Glanville? Yeah, Pu D Llanville. G. Let's talk about it. The teens I think that you were talking about sort of the younger the generations get U you know, the more that people think I know everything. And I do like that it was the teens who did the most obviously reckless thing inside of, you know, as we're gathering information here and there Of course it's going to be the teens, but like Is PJ Gladville cursse deemonine? Like did he lure Yeah Kelly and Evan into that hatch or was he for real looking for an escape and a way to smoke some weed? I'm not even willing to give Kelly that benefit of the doubt. These are violent girls. they are of to no good. Do you think Kelly is an agent of evil? I know we're still a bit away from full on Odyssey talk, but like the level of charm, kiss coercion that Kelly lays on evvid in this episode. Oh, I'm just saying, like we're in some like, don't know reverse siren territory. I don't know what's happening exactly, but the two of them. You're ready for the classic. I mean, I always am. Okay. I am more open than ever to the idea fiction on musicals And on the classics Well, the Odysy's nonfiction Right, R. famamous historical epic. The whirlfool is real. DJ. Glanvill and Or Kelly I mean, they're either mere teenagers, which are a kind of demon, or they're straight up demons. Yeah, I don't know. it could go either way for me. Yeah. I suspect that they're actually just teenagers doing a foolish thing. Yeah. U but Tell sat in that chair. She sat in that chair. PJ doing bits in the chair. That feels believable in a teenage way to me But lock and Kenny in here. Kenny RP RIP. I should say we get a headcount of who's in the shelter. one hundred thirty seven Now it's one hundred and thirty six You got to sacrifice eight out of one hundred and thirty six. let's strike that right now. eightight out of one hundred and thirty five because if you kill Patricia, so help me, there will be hell to pay it. Patricia's off the table as far as who we're sacrificing to the island. Well I don't even know that everyone is in there. Well she said everyone was accounted for except for Ruth becausecause and I guess we have Tom Andrewh to count in that head count as well. Right. But like Chris and the mean girls weren't there or they didn't pay them to be. I think they're in the background. you think the entire population of the island is one hundred and thirty seven people. and you're also telling me that nobody knew that Shelle was pregnant. I think the entire population of the island is much smaller than one hundred thirty seven the off island. a bunch of them Yeahah, people who are there as tourists. Yeah U What is the population in Widows Bay? I say I'm going to say under ninety, you know This is a two restaurant town and one of them sucks reallyally tough How do you were in your graduating class in high school? twelve hundred people. Yeah. So we were slightly bigger than Widows Bay You know, they make them of all sizes, as it turns out. It's true U All right, who knows when and where do we go from here So Okay, the storm breaks Do you think Bashir gets back to the shelter and gets shell on a boat in time that she doesn't give birth on the island or does she birth on the island Well, let's say this, clearly a lot of these things are left hanging so that the writers's room can go any number of directions with season two.ike they don't have to make any hard commitments on a bunch of different fronts right now. this one included. I don't think he makes it back in time because Bashir needs to be a critical part of season two based on what he both knows and doesn't know. All right. And if Shell gets off the island, they're gone. They're out of there They're never. Why would he Why would you stay? Okay Our listenter, Eric said, the point is L like Storm of the century A decision will last be made one that pits Tom against the entire town. seems like a neat way to close the season. So like In a big picture. We're not there yet because everyone doesn't know So Evan knows about the chair and what and what really and what happened to Kenny? Yes U more so even than then PJ Ky and that offland girl. They can draw their own conclusions, but Evan Doos. Okay And the hatch is still partially open. Yeah, we know that But she sure knows Ruth was not the last descended, but not who it was Tom knows that Evan is the last ascendant. He does, indeed. Dale watched The Reel to Real I'm excited to have Dlemore essentrally in the plot. Well actually, let's run on to Tom for a second because Tom I believe based on the information earlier in the season with Reverend Bryce, he I think does know that the bell tolling means trouble, right? Yes. but not necessarily exactly what it's called for. Right. Dale has the mathematical equation.ll one told the bell one soul Um Dale does not strike me as a person who is not going to share that information Yeah. att least with Rosemary and Patricia So they don't know yet, but I feel like office is going to know something. It's going to be gossiping. Okay Um broches in the water Tide's come back in Tom. I'm just gonna say that. I don't know what information would be gleaned from the brooach washing back up ashore, but like Tides come back in. Well, I mean, especially if you belie if you originally did believe this daughter died out in the ocean, then the brooch washing up would be plausible anyway. So I thought it was just kind of putting our brooch watch finally to rest. And I just think ides come back in. I think they do come back in. So maybe we will see it again. As far as the brooch itself Clearly that is a tying of a plot thread. We get the, you know, the reveal that Ruth does have it as we suspected, that she is among the war and bloodline. We kind of knew that coming into this week. And so it wasn't a big like Wow. she's got the broch. Yeah to me it was more like I appreciated the character beat we got over Ruth's kind of like beaming with pride over this like family heirloom. over this cursed her to death. Well and Tom having a concrete reminder of why he was there. ' he was just sort of like softening and sort of like easing out of his mission and then the brooch brought him back with laser fes. Now to reality times of the Bell at the end So I'm sending Chris into the hatch. Are you sending anyone else into the hatch? I already voted for you. I'm sorry. Not me. on the island. notot Chris Ryan. it not me? I mean, I think Clearly, there's got to be some random towns people who do not run the hotel and ora what wass the name of the waitress who's very bad at her job? Oh yeah, I don't remember, but sure. Whoever packed up that like straight The straight piece of meat. I feel like it's Kathy. and I could be wrong And denied Patricia her like coconut cream p. chicken parm, That person deserves to be voted into the hatch. Okay, And who's doing the voting I mean, like it depends if the entire sort of like parks and rec department get all the information or not Um If it were me. I wouldn't sacrifice any of my coworkers, but if I returned to this island and I were toom and I was trying to keep my son alive Would I not Ling off Island people and you know, like and sweetie Todding, that's another musical reference. I'm also familiar with Seet Todd. to the p has been a movie musical. I've seen it. I'm just not out here trying to go to theatater. Why you don't like musicals? 'cause you saw the fucking Johnny Depp Seie Todd. actually real Seet Todd. It's actually pretty good. not true. I liked it Don't like Johnny Depp, but what can I tell you? But like luring randos off they're not one of us and we'll feed them to the hatch. But even that would have to be underhanded at a certain point. If the word gets out, that when you go to Widow's Bay, you've got an eighty percent chance of survival. I think that's going to stump tourism a little bit. But listen if it's the next Marth's V vyard, who is going to miss eight people? And we don't know how long the island will sleep after it eat. so, you know? Yeah. might it's going to need a considerable nap to buy Tom some time to lure in more people I feel like we're gonna feed like it could just be like one person per season goes in the hatch. you could like run this for eight seasons if you wanted to. But also here's my bone to pick with the island, among many other things, theical entity that is ruling the island. So you're good with like ninety percent of what it's doing, but this one thing. Yeah, as you know, I love terrorizing people die because of the chaos on the island. So like the shaman Todd getting sucked up into the weather events et cet, et cetera. whoever the boogeyman kill. I think it's unfair of the island to not count those. See as sacrifices. I kind of interpreted that it did If it was nine bells early the season and it's eight now, then only Kenny counts. Well, maybe it's interest, you know, the Vig. It's like it's a real thing. I don't think those other rand I think you have to shove the person into the hatch or sit them in the chair in order for it to count. So if it's just normal Day in the life calamity Yeah of Boogeyman or cyclone or I see haag variety. Yeah. Which party sunset cockt? Be that's true. becausecause in addition to, you know, the guy got pcked up by the csyclone, like also everyone that the boogeyman killed the EMT who got his like throat sliced or whatever, you know, we're not we're not seeing chimes sloshed off on their accounts. And if you go back to Richard Warren, like there was the plague that was killing people, but there was also Richard actively killing people That it's a great. You know what I mean? So L like the plague is The island saying, I'm hungry, you fucked up, you haven't fed me. I'm going to cause a calamity. And Richard's like, if I drag these five people down the ladder and down the tunnel into the chair The plague will stop I think that completely adds up. I also like the way that that could set up season two where Personally, I would love to see a little more acceleration in terms of the island's hunger. I don't want it to be just like one person a season. I want to see a version of Tom. that has to actively engage in like luring these people to their deaths. Yeah. I wanted to keep this secret. It's it's a that's a lot of people that he has to feed. I mean, I want to see him try to pull it off. You want to like a montage. I don't want a montage. I want it to be like a dextery undercurrent of season two of like, Tom has to live this double life and find the find the shitty people on the island. you know? How shitty do you have to be? Do you have to just see that like shitty off island douche guy who was like My MRE is moldy, like fuck you. That guy can probably go. Do you have to be Chris who's kind of mean, or do you need to be a killer or something like that I think Chris is like worthy of a stun gun, perhaps on occasion, but maybe not of sacrifice. Also like so I didn't love this part, but in terms of amping up the fear, we see this sort of like cattle call, these offerings in their like underclothes, like tied up with bags on their heads like sort of marinating in their fear in order to satiate the island this is the thing. If I'm being forced to feed the island, let's say, eight steaks Why do I have to pepper those steaks for the island? Like it's a numbers game. Why do I have to like service indust. It extra tasty for the island. I don't care if the island enjoys the sauce. I think Bernays for the island as far as I'merned, Let me tell you, its satisfaction is very important. seems to be dictating a lot of the terms around here. But is like it isn't like, I'm spiritually hungry. It's feed me eight souls. and I'm like, done, I did it See, I think you're fulfilling the brief but not the spirit of the brief Um to our emails, we get a lot of emails other than the people saying You're so dumb It's definitely Evan. whyy are you so dumb? Fair enough. How do you have a podcast? There is a lot of people wrote in to talk about Tom's drug trip episod And the fact that at the end of that episode, when he sort of hunched over his own toilet Staring into the abyss. Yes. He makes a bargain with God you know I'll do anything I mean, that's a that's a dark mushroomy God to protect my son. I will do anything to protect my son. And then like the abyss talks back to him So has Tom like officially entered into his own Warren. Does that matter if like Another protector of the island communes with the abyss or it's just a war I mean All of Tom's descendants are also a warren descendant anyway, so I'm not sure it much matters at the end of the day. Yeah, he's kind of looped in, both as like Lord Protector of the island and looped into the bloodline by marriage. Right. I would think this responsibility would fall to him anyway and he would be kind of tied into this. but I also haven't seen him ink any bodily fluids to parchment yet Wow, the options are Iitless. I mean, you needed all all you needed three There were more than I would have liked involved. Our listener Matt wrote in front of the pod Matt, wrote in to say He had already seen the episode, so he emailed this earlier in the week. Did you think that Ruth would shuffle off this mortal coil before naming her secret daughter? and that season two would launch with Tom and Co using the few clues, EG married, baby Daddy, daughter worked in an ice cream parlor to ID her. And might you have preferred that to the comparatively expected Evan reveal slash conundrum? Yeah, I mean, I think that would have done a bunch of different things Yeah, they didn't have to play detective in season two to try to piece the clues together. R. It would also lead to that moment of Profound regret after killing Ruth to find out the truth that this didn't actually do anything. And. This is one of the areas on this episode where I'm a little mixed and mixed in a way where it's just going to have to wait to season two to figure out what to do with it The idea that they kill Ruth, not that I want Ruth to die but in like a loose end sort of way, because if Ruth is alive She knows what Tom knows, which is that Evan is her heir and could say that to anybody at any time in a way that could be explosive of the plot She also presumably knows that Bashir shot her in the back, and I don't know how you just like hand wave that away. How does she know that I mean, he's in the room. I guess she never acknowledges him in any way But She at least knows that she was shot by somebody, no I don't know. it depends how that headwound is manifesting. I have a lot of questions about that headwound. But here's the thing, that part of the story in reveal and what's happening with Ruth notwithstanding The one thing I was really waiting for at the end of this episode that we never quite got was some kind of check in with Patricia and Wick on the other side of it, right? These two people who had been lobbying for opposite sides of what to do with Ruth and how she deserves to be treated Yeah If Ruth doesn't know, Patricia does know like exactly what happened here that somebody shot R was either It was either Tom or Bashir. She has some information. She and Wick have some information, but is Tom going to tell them about Evan? No. No, you know, and Tom doesn't know what Dale knows. It's true. And Dale doesn't know what Evan knows And so in terms of like putting together the pieces of the puzzle, there's so many We've got plenty of runway in season two for that. And what I was looking for was not a complete clarity from any of these characters, Pat are included, but an emotional response to this very impulsive decision. And regardless of knowing all the facts, like you know Ruth got shot and you can start putting pieces together. And I would have appreciated some kind of check in with and this is kind of my larger consideration with this episode Patricia, Wick just don't have a lot to do. No, but I'm kind of okay. againgain, I'm kind of okay with it because Patricia just got her like boogeyman. Patricia gets two full episodes. Very true to be the star. Yeah. Wick got his Jaws episode. know what I mean? And so like They were very central in other episodes. So they took a vac seat in this episode. But they're so central like to me, this was almost a moment where Dale gets his absolute shriek. this place is a death trap. And like the physical comedy of that, I mean, the show is Widows Bay is lousy with curses and this show is lousy with amazing physical comedy I don't want to get rid of that Jeff Hiller moment But I did have the thought that it was like Couldn't this have been wick in the room Rightly, aren't we more tied to Wick's place into this story? and he's someone Wick wouldn't tell anyone. He wouldn't I mean Dale, I guess that's true. is like, you need the bliber mouth to find out the information. Yeah I guess I just I just want the characters that we spent more time with to do yet even more. here's Here's where we agree. Yeah This was a longer episode of Widow's Bay, and I loved it All of the episodes of season two should be longer And if this were episode were even longer, then Wick and Patricia would have something more to do than hand out MR's., et cetera. the MREs at that. Tough, really tough. The Bite chart. beforefore we go, I wanna make sure that we mention this so we don't get emails about it. Human bte on the bite chart. Y. prettyretty interesting. I mean, clearly just everything going on in the storm shelter, even before we see the reels This is not a great place. The gun the empty gun rack. giant red alarm button. Yeah just sitting there waiting to be pushed. Yeah. The how to subdue someone' instructions on the wall Yeahah, all of the little breadcrumbing that takes us to the eventual so urine offering, I thought was really just apose U If you're reading this, I'm already dead If you're read this, I'm already dead So that was presumably from an offering. Yeah, who who was Now the courtesy of a blanket Yeah and then wrapped it up in the blanket. Yeah. That was very to me like video game lore, where you're playing a resident evil game and you find an abandoned blanket and it has this note in it that someone hasially scre and you can read the note. I've played a video game anything else, I think we did it. I think we really did it. J. How do you feel about this season overall? Fantastic. and not only just fantastic, but like The joy of watching it spread and seeing like Yemadel Toro or anyone else being like, Hey, this is the best fucking thing I've ever seen. Theo Kojimas. Yeah exactly. ye, yeah, yeah. And then seeing more and more people, you know, people around the office here today where I've been all day're eagerly talking about the Widow's Bay finale And coming off of something like Euphoria, which like felt like a mixed bag in terms of worthy of our attention and going into something like Cape Far, which like We're really excited about it because it is like bananas, but it's not great, but Widow's Bay is great television and we're so lucky it exists. and I'm just like I don't know I'm just like thrilled that this exists and tons of people, it feels like tons of people watched it. I don't know if that's real or if five'm min in a silo, you know. I think anecdotally it has become a sensation of a kind. Like we'll see if the numbers ever get announced as far as how many people are watching this show, but It is talked about and it is invested in And I think most rewardingly, it is like paid off that investment. It's the kind of show where the deeper you go into it, like the lore is expansive and the theories are real and validated or sometimes red herrings. It just feels like the kind of show that's not just well conceived but well constructed. Yeah Um And I love that like what it's done for like Kido Flynn, who people love as Patricia, like what this potentially could do for her career, the like you know, Matthew Reese, the Reissance as you as you I get it. to be confused with the Reissance. You know, and the appreciation for like veteran like Dale Dickkey has been around, know, et cetera, etcetera. So U I'm thlled. I'm thrilled Widows Bag. I couldn't be happier. Just make the episodes longer next season. Thank you so much. twwelve episodes an hour long That's what want next season. And we people go into that. As many as we can fit. Yeah. I don't think we've officially like talked about this on the products. We may have mentioned in passing through this episode, but if you have not caught up on the news, the show has already been renewed for season two officially. Yeah. veryery exciting Did that affect the way you watch this finale at all, knowning that we were going to get more? or did the suspicion that we were going to get more already kind of I felt like sure we were going to get more But I think I would have been really bummed if this finale came and A, it wasn't renewed or B, we didn't know whether I was going to be renewed. I think I think so yeah, knowing that we had more to come I think there's no way Matthew Reistes doesn't win anmy. I know you don't give a shit about the Emmys, but like there's I think there's no way that Matthew Reese doesn't win an Emmy for B L actor in a comedy. Yeah He already has an Emmy for primeime drama Two Emmies for Matthew Rese None for Carrie Russell, and that is a crime. So let's even up the wor shelf war crime. The Rece Russell household. you know, she's got her golden globe for felicity, but like we need to get some Emmies and I don't know if the diplomats gonna do it. Like we need to get some Emmy brass up there for Carrie Russell. I have fun with the diplomats. I mean like, it's fun but is it gonna to win her the Emmy she deserves? I don't know. Fuck it, makeake her the island. you know Let's bring Care Russell into season two. I would love Carrie Russell to be season two.. I hope she She was Her years as felicity have really primed her for Czy's sweaters, and I think she just like is born to be here. Maybe she is the poor off Island woman to be sacrificed and lured in by Matthew Reese. His charms clearly not lost on him. His new love interest, but eventually he has to shove her into the hatchge to save his son. Yeah, what happened to the Bachelorette partarty? We never saw that woman ever again.ought a fairy and got out of there. She She tried her damnedest to where he was into the ocean during sunset cocktails, I think they were like, bye. We're done. A brutal time for everybody. Cheers our sunset cocktails. Absolutely. Cheers to us. Cheers to the sunset cocktails. Cheers to everybody who's been following along with our pods this season, Joe. This has been An unexpected delight getting to cover this show with you. Come join us for Cape Far. It's bananas. It's kind of great. Yeah and kind of terrible, but really kind of great. This is a great primer though. Like if you've been living and dying with every loose end of Widow's Bay. Oh baby. Come dig in the trash with us. We're just like dumpster diving on Cape Far. Raccooned up with us this summer, you know? It's just gonna be a little grosser and a little more seedy I think it will reward your obsession in a totally different kind of way. I really agree