Final Thoughts and Future Coverage

This episode is brought you by Americ's cookout cllassics, Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Meyer. This summer we're celebrating two hundred and fifty years of American cookouts with all the classics. Heinz Kraft and Oscar Meyer. Rob, what's your ideal cookout scenario? First of all I want you on the ox. I trust you with that sacred responsibility to pick our music. I'm gonna to have to man the grill, and I'm going to need like a copious amount of condiments. I need every possible fix in imaginable. Well, make sure to top your burger with only the best, Heinz Ketchup and Kraft singles. And you know, it's not a cookout without Heinz, Ketchup and mustard. Different vibes, same ingredients. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Meyer. Shop at your local retailer Experience a membership that backs what you're building with American Express Business Platinum two times membership rewards points per dollar on eligible purchases in key business categories as well as on each eligible purchase of five thousand dollars or more. O up to two million dollars in eligible purchases per calendar year American Express Business Platinum. There's nothing like it Terms apply. Learn more at Americanxpress d. com slash businessash platinum TV P podcast speed. I'm Joan Robson. Im R Bahhone. and we' here to talk about widows ay. Episodes six and seven which aired together. so if you only watched one episode, guess what? There's another one waiting for you. Just sitting there. Double drop because it was a episode six was a little different. meeandering. A flashback sort of contained episode. And so they dropped another one just so you were like How long were it to be in the seventeen hundreds Not too long. Okay. How do you feel about that structure overall? Like we get a lot of, you know, the penulttimate step backack kind of episodes. Yeah a lot of those right now I kind of like it if you're gonna do it, you also have to do the follow up moving the ball forward episode package. I think it was really smart to double drop them. And also we'll talk about this, but I was always watching it. I was like, wow, this is if as if The lost episode across the seea, which is a notoriously hated episode in the final season. Yeah was like in season one instead. There's just like a lot of lore info here. That's amazing. O of the gate. I was like, that's aascinating thing to do. Okay. so episode six Our history directed by famed horror director Ty West wrritten by Alberto Roldan, who wrote on Gaslet which I cou times because of my fondness for Betty Gilpin U mayaybe not on Pod, but you've heard me reference it a couple times Nobody talks about Gaslt and they should because Betty Gilfin is amazing. that Betty Gilpin, of course is the star of I would say the star of episode six Yes. Hamish Lin Clater' also here. We can talk about him. And then episode seven se Sickness, directed by Sam Donovan, who also directed episode four Beach Rees, which we loved and written by Dave Harris, who is a staff writer and on season one of Interview with the Vampire one of my favorite shows of all time. So this is just an incredible assemblage of talent here. Ty West, I was asking you before we started recording, obbviously this is a huge film director to get for a TV show. whereere are you on the Ti West filmography? How do you feel about it? I mean, mixed but kind of undeniable. You know, I think there are elements of those movies where it's like, okay, is this like particular Hollywood homage like a bridge too far for me stacked on stacked on stacked, unstacked within my horror movie? sometometimes. I mean, the bonafide speak for themselves. and I think the atmospheric horror that they create really on Widows Bay in general, but especially within these episodes, like that is the Ti West model for me. In the Pearl trilogy, do you have a favorite one I guess probably just pearl. Just pearl. J pearl. Is it more complicated than that? It's just me, Cassie. Where would you go U yeah, I think it's Pearl. No. Yeah, yeah. The Sico say maccine, but that's fine. U They can have it. They can have it. Mail bag. F spepeaking of Cassie. We've received, you know, we asked, you answered, Do you want Widows Bay coverage week to week A lot of you said yes. These episodes are doing pretty well, so we're going to cover it week to week for the rest of the season. we also want this too. Yeah. It's what we wanted. We just wanted the numbers to prove that it's a good move for us. Yeah. hereere we are. Also on the mailback front, I can't tell you the last time I was so delighted by the subject lines of so many emails. Babaduking. So much Bobad Duking going on. Another way in which the listeners have really shown up for us. Babaduking left and right. I really do We appreciate the listeners shing their vulnerabilities with us. includluding the people who literally Babauke. And we will share some of those with you But first, Jan wrote in to say, I need to understand why Widows Bay has been relegated to B tier lump coverage While you continue devoting weekly attention to euphoria, a show that's essentally misogynistic fever dream of an aggressively midneppo auteur whose only good season was the one built on stolen IP. Meanwhile Widows Bay is the Prestige TV podcast Hoy Grail, Lost level Mystery, Svern style, puzzle box mechanics, Razor shharp comomedy, go teer casting, genuine payathhos, actual formal ambition, and small detail, a masterpiece We deserve each week's coverage. Is Sam Levinson personally wiring money to the ringer? We are suffering. Janna tell us how you really. I love that email. Euphoria is a no brainer just because it's like got three of the most famous movie stars that are currently working. We're having a fun time covering it. and This is going to come out after, I guess, but we'll be covering the last two episodes of Euphoria liive on Sundays. So if you want to witness some chaos If you want to witness me spilling several beverages all over myself, you might be able to enjoy that on a Sunday evening. And me doing my best like Matthew Reese wide eyed stupper trying to like contain my shit and responding to those episodes, that will be the general v. The live experience. Why not Widows May? I will say, you know, it's not just us wondering was the audience going to be there because that is a question that we had and a consideration when we pick what we want to cover, but also like I'm going to be curious what it's going to be like for us to cover a single episode going forward because this is still a double episode drop., but we're going to be covering one episode episode at a time going forward. They're shorter runtime episodes It's a comedy. we don't usually cover comedy. genre comedy, but ye comedy. So while there are sort of like lore mysteries, which of course, we'll talk about this week and stuff like that I've always I've been wondering If there's enough meat on the bone for us to cover a single episode of Widow's Bay at a time we'll find out together. And I'm sure they're probablyably will be. It's just less of a no brainer to me than like, what the hell's happening on Euphoria, which is, you know I think there's like a very understandable misconception that we cover shows because like they're the best show or the show we love the most and it's like There's a lot of other considerations that go into it. Right. Sometimes that's true. Sometimes it's absolly true. and sometimes we love it so much we kind of will it into being a podcast. but like A show like How to get to Heaven from Belfast is one of my favorites of the year. I wouldn't know really how a podcast about it. Right. And I would say that's a show that has a lot in common with Widows Bay. It's a little more like comedy thriller than it is comedy horror. but it's similar like joke cadence baked into this other genre trapping. It can be tricky, and especially as you said, the runtime itself kind of decides a lot of like how much you can really pack into one podcast discussion episode. If I were in charge of the world I would have let me tell you are. I'm not If I were, I would have done twenty podcast episodes on the otherther Bennett sister. But you know what? Nobody wants to listen to that. Well, like five of you want to listen to that Okay, a couple of other emails. Okay, we got several emails and comments about Evan's parentage, which is something that we raised last week. and we got a lot of people commenting like Hey, didn't Tom say in episode one that his wife was already pregnant with Evan when he met her. I was like, how did I miss that? know I went back and rewatched the scene. I think you could interpret it that way. The way that I interpret it is Your mom was already pregnant when we got married. Yeah. That's how I interpret what he says in that scene. I can see how you could interpret it that he says, it's no secret. your mother was already pregnant. but the end of that sentence to me is when we got married. So like it's no secret. It was like a shotgun reding sort of thing. And I have to think Evan the rebellious team that he is. if if It's an open secret that you know, his mom was already pregnant when Tom met her and that his dad is someone else. We would have been hit with a you're not My real dad at some point. We might run. Anyway, if you work on Widows Bay and you're listening to his podcast, and we have heard that some people workking on the show are listening to his podcast And you know for fact about Evans' parentage, we would love an email press EGV at Spotify. Well, would we? ' is that not going to be potentially revealed in time? Okay, could be, could be. I think here's where I'm standing with a lot of these like flashing back to early episode moments. Like we got another email from Kyle who I thought had a great call about when Tom is first talking to the reporter from the New York Times The idea is brought up that like if you were born on this island, you can't leave it. And Tom says that's an old wiv's tale, which is a great line, great dismissal on the moment, but also the tale of his old Maybe dead, maybe disappeared wife. Young But not old it former former, not old. And so I wonder if this is the kind of show where Given the way they have so masully masterfully laid all of this track to this point and all these lines that already feel different, all these moments of like Patricia calling Tom on the phone in a harried way about the cocktails. it's like, o, now we know what that means an episode or two later. it might just be one of those things we revisit and the fact that it plays both ways is very much intentional Okay, I still want to know, but I won't tell Ron. Tag it a spoiler in the subject lind. Tell me secretly if if Evan's parentage is supposed to be a mystery or Wh's who's reading that scene correctly. But it, you know, all the people wrote in and commented He does say, it's no secret, your mother was already pregnant. Yeah. But if the end of that sentence is when we met or when we got married makes a difference. Yes. So Okaykay. Baba Duking. didid you we got several emails from folks. and if you didn't listen to us last week if you haven't been listening at all, I will just premise that Katie Dippold, who created the show has this great tweet about showing up in full Babaduke regalia to a more what is it like drinking wine? Grown ups drinking wine vibe, wine, Halloween party and cheese and full Babauke costume. Yes. So we were soliciting emails from our listeners of the time that they babaduooked into one or babaduooked other people, it turns out. Sure. So did you have any that you wanted to call out particularly? I did, Joe. in particular, one email we got from Matt who accidentally babadukeed somebody else Really a sequence of events in which a party was thrown like a big dance on Halloween. And then a follow up event from like a sister organization was thrown following up in March, the following year at a later time, and someone who attended the first dance misunderstood that you're supposed to maybe only show up in costume for the Halloween occasion and showown up to a March dance in full maleficent regalia that is it true Babadoo. And I'm curious if it was like animatedaleficent or if for J Jolie For Angelinaing, like how sharp are the cheekbones for this occasion? I would love to see the photos. Speaking of photos, our listener Alex Jordan to let us know that they literally Babadoo. Y a party and they have photographic evidence And they believe their Babaducking predates the meme of the Babaducking. tremendous. Yeah, the Babaducking, if you will. Just when you thought you were living a singular life, multiple people are literally Babaduc. What else Babaduke for you the The last one that I wantanna share is like a pop culture reference Babaduke, and who among us has not dropped a movie quote that we thought everyone knew Yeah and we were wrong Jamie wrote in to say, I' tagged along with a friend to aew Year's Eve party, and at some point in the evening, a woman whom I had made party friends with built her drink all over the kitchen counter. Sounds like a real joanna move Since it was still the holiday season, I obviously said, look what you did, you little jerk Dead silence So Jamie, I see you, and I would have caught your reference, but sometimes You babad duke yourself just by knowing too many movie quotes Anything else you want to mention, Keep them coming. Yeah. I'm a big fan of the Babaduking. And future Babadooking, you know, if you find yourself a year from now having listened to this podcast accidentally babadooking yourself, I would still like to hear about it prestige dV at spotify dot com d Speaking of which, we did get an email from our listener, Matt. This is pit related. So if you did not live out with a pit with us earer this season, but he sent us an ad for a thing called Yenzer Palooza M where they're giving away Dct. Robby Bobbleheads at this Yenszer Palza event. And I just thought the phrase Yenszer Pallza was worth sharing. Completely worth it. Also I'm wondering do we have room on our shelves here for a Dct. Robby Bobblehead if we can procure one of these somehow? Oh, well well, I'll knock that fucking bons eye out of the. straight out. Yeah. Are you kidding me Our listener Andrew Rd in to talk about Evan Um, at the Boogeyman house. Yes and comparing the story of Tom being too chicken shit to doorbell ditch, wick which Wick was like, that's a failing of you, Tom. And Evan's willingness to go up to the Boogeyman house. did you feel like this was an intentional parallel they were drawing between the two? Very much so.. They're setting it up to see does Evan behave as Tom did or not. Right. And then undercut it for comedy for drama for, you know, just like the jump scare ofisher being there basically, like It's a great I think I think thematic tie in is the way they portay right? It's just kind of an iteration of this idea that's already out there. I was struck in watching these episodes six and seven about how much the Richard Warren story felt familiar to the boogeyman story we hear among the teenagers, right? Tell me. Well when the teenagers are talking like mayaybe honestly, maybe just trying to scare each other about what happened with the man who lived in this house. It was like They tried to shoot him, they couldn't kill him. they had to bury him in cement. And then we see what happened to Richard Warren. He's like stabbed repeatedly, couldouldn't kill him, had to bury him underground. It's like you know, Boogeymans story feels like a modernization of the Richard Warrenmth. That's funny because I was thinking about when Bashir is talking to Patricia about Town cououncil is amassking to do something about an action committee. Yeah, an action committee. I'm like, what is that group in the flashback episode is not an action committee. L all this has happened before. all this will happen again, Joe Caitlin wrote in with some experts some notes for Jerry favorite historical society, I think the lone employee of the historical the historical Society. Jerry of the historical society. off the historical Sociy. Cay lear to say, I did archival studies and you do not wear cotton gloves to handle archival materials. The industry standard is, you know I love an expert, evail from some. We really do. The industry standard is nitrile gloves, which I believe is what we snap on when we're giving TV recommendations. Theoretically. Though thoroughly washed and dried hands work great too Cotton is more likely to tear the materials and leave fibers behind. honestly, The entire way that she, Jerry, of the historical Society, handles the book and the page is a hot mess. Though If she's never gotten formal archival training, never been off the island, question mark, How good she just isn't knowledgeable about proper procedures. So Kitlin giving some grace for Jerry, but also saying Your procedure is shit, Jerry, and you don't deserve to be near historical documents. It feels fair. Jerry's doing the best she can, You know, we're all working with what we got Last email from Dave You asked our listeners to come up with names or asked me at least to come up with a name for what my bookmobile might be called. Yeah. Have you given any thoughts? I did not give it any thought. Thank you for taking my consideration seriously. Definitely forgot you asked me that, but I did read Dave's email. He wrote Jord like Borders, but Joe Jorder. It's a text only, Joe.ooks. Y Barnes and Joobel works a bit better. I do like Barnes and Jobel. And Jobel library, L like mobile library, but Jobel libr Can we do better? Press ETV is spotified up. Let's keep workshoping. You also expect it. He was trying to do a Joanne Fabrics joke, but he wrote Joanne yarns and it's not really was it was stretching. Dave, I appreciate you. You're the only one who remembered this. I didn't so I appreciate. How do you feel? we've never talked about this about Joe Ants I imagine it happens a lot to you where people call you Joanne instead of Joanna. Like is there a blood feud? Is there a rivalry? No U. I embrace the Joanans of the world. Really? Johanna is the problem. I get Johanna. Yeah You're like Johannas are the real problem the world. Shout out to the Johanas out there. Do you have a U a robber bur rob Bo issue with anyone. Before this podcast, Joe compared me to Beto O'BRorkin. I can only imagine an unflattering way because I don't know what else to take it It was very rude. It' just the meanest thing you've ever said to. Absolutely fucked up. But I will say my mortal enemy is less Even the Bobs, frankly, there aren't many Bobs anymore. Berts are a rare breed. I'm I'm maybe poised for a midlife transition to Bertt. M mayaybe that's ahead for me at certain point. For me, it's the Rons. you know, that's the one that people miss herear Rob as Ron and vice versa. And so We're not enemies, but it's like we can't be allies. you know, we're across purposes. front B the way posossibly bey on that front It is on that front. Chris Fleming, who we brought up in last week's episode. Yeah has a great bit about how Joan'es is not Michael's and he like, it's really, really funny. I recommend Got to take this you watch it. It's so funny. How like Joaness is like for the girls and Michaels is for fake crafts people. Wow. But Joan's is now out of business so RIP. Okay Should we talk about what a p? We probablyably should. What a concept. All right, so our history a significant departure Yeah But your first like real experience with the actress Betty Gilpin, How did you enjoy your experience here? Delightful. She's great. She's really wonderful here. I mean, this is really, I mean, true to the direction and the theme of the show. like a very scream queen kind of performance, but like stifled by her circumstances. And I had a particularly great time with all the non verbal stuff she was doing. like the choking down sobs, the screaming into pillows, random yelps she would let out as she's trying to like formulate her thoughts to not get murdered by her husband. Yeah. Just a wonderful performance. I just think she's so funny too, and this isn't this is the least funny of all the episodes. O obviously, the horror is, But even then it's still kind of funny when she's trying to get the counsel to kill her husband, shes just like gives this little clap like, let's go Yeah. or they're like, go get the children. She's like, My children, I just met them But the killer and I know I might be stepping on like our joke category that we're going to do later but my favorite was like, the runner through the the episode is like, I'm so old. I never thought I would get married at this age. I'm so old. I'm so old. And then At one point she says I am I am but four and ten and I will wither in my father's attict. So she's supposed to be fourteen. This like old maid at fourteen and I just love, I mean, like obviously Betty Gilfin is not fourteen, but she was just really like but four and ten. And I was like, wait, did I did I hear that correctly So yeah, the whole like, I'm too decrepit to be married at fourteen in the seventeen. I mean her life is over. Yeah. She is a spinster and a titist. It turns out I also I think the moment where I knew, again, not having a lot of Betty Gilpin experience to date that I was in like really good hands is like we open with her, you know, writing some of the diary that we later get the full tie in as far as the who was going to kill me LOL JK he's right in the room. We get the full backstory for that. But the initial diary entry moment She almost has like a twinkle in her eye, the moment she dares to wish for like to God that her husband be handsome. And I'm like, okay, there's like there's something here that I'm already so interested in And she delivered, I would say every step in this episode Are you aware of the Broadway show, O Mary at all? I'm actually not. Okay. It's a great body, u retelling of Mary Todd Lincoln and a fantastic show. Betty Gilpin is the first actor who like took over for the original actor who did the role. And my sister saw Betty Gilpin in this role and she was just like it's sort of similar to this. Like in the way that you can do physical comedy wearing like so many skirts. Yeah. like how you navigate it is incredible. I just think she's so talented. I'm so happy she's here Hamish Link Later is also here. I will say this is not My I love Hamish Link later. This is not my He's making a real vocal choice. He is. How would you describe it Saonorus. Saunus is a great way to describe it. I don't know. I just like, I feel like if if I were directing this ep, if I were Ti West U or peopleople do often confuse the two of you. It's true You've got the beta I you've got Ti West. I think you won that one. And I hurt and he was like, and Hamish came in and he's like I'm going to go with this I be like let's run it back and try again. Maybe not. But I mean, he's He has more to play with in in the second episode than he does here here. He's just like really the heavy the villain. What did you think of this? It does feel like he's kind of setting up the voice too to be like maybe not so jarring if you went from speaking like a normal person to all of a sudden gruff like dust vocal ch. Yeah ye. So yeah, he is doing like a certain marble mouth thing. Yeah that I did work for me. And I think kind of it makes it Yes, a little bit sinister, but also like a little bit goofy in the way that the show likes to do and the way that they're playing with those extremes with this character I thought was really nice. and It it's a classic thing that Widows Bay is starting to establish in its pattern, its rhythms where you have these like horrific things that happen or these like really terrifying things that happen And within an episode or two, we're sending them up already. And to me, Richard Warren is the perfect example of that. of like, murdering people left and right or like leaving them for dead as human sacrifices, however you want to think about it Sarah is clearly in danger. hisis kids are potentially in danger And yet an episode later, we're just doing like fuck you gags with Matthew Race and eating Vienna sau Y It's all Rrives in Vienna saucea As far as last meals go. Yeah. Where does Vienna sausage out of a can rank for you? I mean, he seemed to really enjoy himself. That's true. How did you feel about You know, Amish Link later as Richard Warren, just straight up moaning as he eats vienna sausagesough Really tough So it would be low on my list Who among us hasn't had a Vienna sausage moment? You know, for like a six year old boy? It's like, oh my God, Vienna sausages, this is incredible. I offer you a one up for being a sausage for a six year old boy. beanie weenies. See, aren't they are they not mean on a sausage where you add beans. See, I'm out. I'm not interested in the beanie element of the beanie weenie. Are you serious? We're weenies only around here But I don't want to step on our like Lore category that we have but we' robust I just a massive lore dump inside of this episode. The well is here. the door in the chair in older guys. How do you feel about like, I feel like you had your theory validated where you were like when we first saw the chair in front of the rusted metal door and you're like, I feel like that's been there forever. I was like that door looks more modern. you're like, pererhaps it was once a wooden hatch and lo and behold, you nailed it. So like what's your current interpretation of the door chair setup that we get Well Clearly, this has been done for human sacrifices. I think the trail of blood leading from the chair to the then wooden hatch would suggest it. The hunk of hair. Yeah. I mean, hair is the new teeth in this episode. There's just clumps of hair. We're constantly being told like it's pretty gross. Yeah I'd feel great about all of that paying off. And to me, it feels like you know, and an extension of what? Richard Warren is telling, you know, the priests and the townspeople before he's buried of like This is the covenant that we make here on the island. And so even though he is being buried underground, someone will continue parts of his work. And it seems like, I mean, they were asking for a specific instructions. So what do we do? Yeah. And so they sh. Over time, it becomes part of the ritual of the town over time. Is it every year, How many do do people on the island living right now know does like, yes, a rosemary know L who's doing it? This is, I think one of the genius parts of this show is the who knows what and who is in on it. Like there is a small town conspiracy potential story within this one. And even Thom is kind of a part of that, right? Like we open the show The way we're conditioned as viewers as like inherent skeptics of the supernatural, at least that's where I'm coming to it from. I'm like, oh, you know Some of the spooky stuff might be real, someome of it might be fake. I'm kind of like in a what I thought was a toom perspective as far as what the supernatural elements of the island might be But he we get pretty hard confirmation within these episodes that he knows like for a fact if you leave the island, as a native born person, you will die. L my son is locked here in a hell prison. Yeah He at least believes like having seen whatever it was that happened with his wife and we get more information there, you know, he's believes it enough to not risk it. Yeah with Evan for sure. And so this is a thing that he firmly believes. and yet to everyone else in the world is like downpllying it, don't worry about it. That's that's an old wiv's tle et cetera, et cetera And so that could be going on in some form or fashion. you would think with basically anyone else who lives here like, Given the su that they inevitably have seen, how could you not be a part of it in some way or another? Or is there no one doing it? and that's why the island is like angry Well, that's definitely part of the problem that they're gonna have to feed it someone. Whoever was the last mayor was keeping up to date with the human sacrifices. and Tom, I mean, like many things in Widows Bayacking Really slacking, reallyally slackking on the job Absolutely. Civific services just aren't what they used to be All right, are you satisfied with the well? L do we need more information about the well? I mean, we know it's part of the network It's very losty, honestly. I mean, look, it's this is the most This is the most losty part of the show. We are making our own kind of music. We are singing our own special songs I like that it's part of the network, but I also kind of would have loved if the well was something even discreet and spookier. The fact that the payoff for lookingoo down into this chasm of a well And seeing the, you know, the specter of death and then committing suicide or being hung on your own door is that I guess is just kind of connected to everything else. Or did he go down there and see the chair? You don't go down the well I mean, he might have. You shouldn't. Yeah, one should not. Can I tell you I'm gonna skip ahead to my favorite bit of lore? PJ. Glanville as played by Beck Nolan. Yeah U Evan's terrible friend is alive when She gets to the island. Very confusing. Or his ancestor. It could be his ancestor a previous Glenville. A striking resemblance. But he's the I was like as soon as I saw him I was like, oh, are they going populate the whole thing with actors we recognize from the town. But he's the only one Yeah. And that makes it even spookier and more fun. What do you think he is So a babad dook On Reddit a while ago, someone had a PJ Glanville. I was actually just looking up who the actor was and this Reddit thread popped up. okay. Um I posted a few days ago about how I thought there might be something wrong with one of the teenagers after the Reverend saw them and said there is an evil here while looking at the group We now know he was wandering around with his third eye open. what did he see? Oh shit. Tom specifically said that PJ Glenvill was an awful boy in the latest app while he was high on Srooms. In the same app, we saw PJ try to convince Evan to go into a dangerous house. So what's the deal with PJ Glenve? Oh my God. I'm excited. It's been here all along right under our noses. I'm thrilled. Like, I don't know what the answer's gonna to be and maybe it'll be nothing, but I'm just like Off Island girls, you are off the hook because I think the villain in the Vulvo is PJ Lanill. I'm excited. It seems safe to say, yeah, what what could she be up to? Is it a he? Is it the island inhabiting a human form? The embodiment of the island. O's a trickster teen. One can only dream. There's always been a P D Llanville every generation on the island. Wow I would say even more than every generation and more than just on the island. There are trickser teens everywhere for those who care to look. U Anything else specifically you want to say about episode five. And this is an unfavorable compar. I did like this episode. I would say I think it's my least favorite episode of this season. What it's a break from all the characters we like and care about. Absolutely. Though it does end with Wick and incredible needle drop. Yeah. Brandy is one of my favorite songs of all time. Guardians tried to ruin it But it is like such a jam. I could not ruin it for you. And I let the credit the full credits play both times I watched this episode just so I could hear Brandy like all the way through. I love that song. But last week I was on the watch and Chris, after episodes four and fiveive Widows Bay, Chris is making the argument that like if episode six is an absolute banger and four five and six will be like an incredible run of TV episodes. And we were talking about other incredible runs season two is one I always bring up. endnd of season three of lost, you know, like, you know, like what's a great run of episodes on a show? hisis definition of run was anything more than two Um I think six like is enough of for me a step back in like my overwhelming enjoyment of Widows Bay that I would not call that like a you know, you could do three, four, five if you wanted to like see Hag it up, like I would support that. But I don't think I would put six in like an all timer run but I really loved seven. Yeah. So, you know, like again, it was a great idea to double drop them And it did remind me of like American horror story. So it gave me some like I'm just apologize. It gave me some like Roanoke u flashbacks, but um, but also like the the the bitch, the witch, like, you know, some, you know Pilgrims are scary people. They can be. Yeah Yeah. Whoever they cast to be like the doctor's severe wife slashure zombie. She's been a lot of stuff. I really like her a lot. Really really love. a great voice. I love her. Do does have a great voice. iss a great look for. I'm with you that it's not as dynamite and propulsive as those previous episodes. It strikes me as the kind of thing that is probably for the greater good of the season. Yeah. We simply have to we're gonna talk to smallown conspiracies like it's baked into the formula there. Hot fuzz baby So I think we are stepping back, we're explaining a lot of things in a way that I would rather do this now than later. Exactly. Maybe there is a more artful way to do it without the flashback in real time where you're still with all the characters you're invested in. that's something you could probably do. I didn't mind it as much here. And frankly, like I did appreciate the confidence of this episode because this is the kind of episode that we really usually only get in as you alluded to, a final season or at least like a season two or three, something where like the proof of concept is established, the show is a hit And part of the reason is like these are not cheap episodes to make. You have to barring like one teen who is mysteriously still alive and well You do a whole new cast, You' bringing guest stars, You you have to have like new costumes budget. I mean, the chickens alone. The chicken Wanglers are such divas. You have to build log cabins, whole cloth Yeah. It's not a cheap thing to do. and I would say I appreciate that Widows Bay is like already coming out with the confidence of a show that can deliver on that kind of thing. And also like I'll due credit to Apple who They do put their money out there in terms of production. And so In a world where I'm just like volumed to death put me in a real place where we're making like real old timey seventeen o two sets like chicken. I'm just I'm just gonna to salute that on principle, even if the episode isn't as the epode. No, I agree. L I appreciate it. I'm glad it wasn't like a pen uulttimate before the finale episode. Glad they put it mid season I just like wouldn't say four built to five built to six. Right. You know, necessarily. Here's the thing So if we didn't have the flashback and we just dug up Richard Warren And we still have basically the same kind of tone and comedic beats and Hames Linklayer still gets to do his thing Do we miss a ton So I mean, that might be the tell that maybe we just didn't need to do this in the first place. But now we know some like, you know, packs and, you know, we do. We do. We know that it was starving the demon was starving and so was he. And I just think I think it's super interesting to give us as much lore info as they gave us in this episode. And I'm glad to have it. 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Get him fired up with a new grill and accessories, like the next grill five burner for just two hundred ninety nine dollars so you can spend more time together while he becomes the grill master he was always meant to be, or build memories with savings on top brand power tools so you can tackle projects side by side Gift more and do more together this Father's Day with help from the Home Depot. Exclusive supplly at Homekeepper d. com slash pressmatch for details Ever wonder where Tropana got its name Tropics And every time you enjoy a glass, you're not just drinking juice. You're taking a trip. Stepping into sunshine and embarking on a flavorful journey into the tropics where ripe fruit is crafted into wildly delicious juice. And the best part, no passport required Strawacanna, give life some juice Nutrition, Wick have already been They've seen some shit. They've been wounded by the capsule. Dgma. up Patricia Ionic, incredible. Her like no her forceful no no when Tom is gonna no no, yes. I know that every one of thoses bay pods are just us repeating like Patricia jokes, but like what else are we to do? They're so good. This is the thing that was so impressed with in seven thoseough. L clearly, especially from six, we are entering into I would say darker and spookier territory overall. like it's a slightly different tone in six. We come back in seven And we're not abandoning anything about what makes the show so funny. And that you can just slink right back in Yeah. And Richard Warren is a part of it and now like a part of literally every comedic bit of banter that's happening in this episode. And I think really what cemented it for me was everything that happens when Tom goes up to meet Richard Warren for the first time And the two Patricia cut ins of like, I'm just gonna to leave you two to talk. And then also I forgot my purse againain, it's like Horror is so atmospheric. And I thought this episode in particular was a great reminder that like comedy can live anywhere, right? Like you can set that, you can set that and then you have the jump scare be a great joke, basically. The way they framed him sitting on the corner of the bed like that in the dark and we don't see his like ash and face yet and stuff like that is very scary. Like it's really good.'s mo all that scene is moving so slowly Yeah just ratcheting And then like, you know, Matthew Rese is giving us all the physical comedy we could hope for. I genuinely think, and again, I'm stepping on some categories, but I genuinely think the funniest joke of the whole season, perhaps for me. Okay is the notepad which is like, Hi, my name is Patricia and then Are you mad at something I? Soone of Ryer' room was just like, what's the most patricious thing we could put on this notepad? And it's to the undead man from seventeen oh two. A you mad at something I said?. Sorry, you were locked in a coffin for hundreds of years, but is this about me? And is it something I said? I think is so funny. I think we got say not only is that one of the best gags of the season, this is the most elite noteepad show I've ever seen. Yeah ye. You know, we just had so many moments pay off of it' just literally like a pan to what someone has written down on a pad of paper hundred percent And it's funnier than you're going to see in basically other comedy rolling right now I really agree And then this, you know, it goes and we get the Patricia Basher sort of side quest., which is incredible and iconic and really, really good. And then we get Wick and Tom and Richard Warren. out on the sea. and we get the most overt Jaws reference yet How do you feel about a C S shanty? I mean, I'm glad they're back. I thought we were I was I feared that we were done with Santy. the pandemic, there was the shanty revival. Oh no earlier this season, I'm talking about. Yeah we are one breakthrough Santy and I'm like, is that going to be it? Okay. But no we're on the seas doing the shanties Almost in like a round. Did you happen to notice who wrote this sea shanty? No. Okay. so lyrics by Neil Casey, who is a writer on the show and plays the Innkeeper on the show Wh's so he did the lyrics of who will Be the Last M. Music by Richard Ree Perry of Arcade Fire Fame That's an arcade fire shanty. That's the app of money, Gsh.ike Who can we get to write our shanty? No, Arcade fire. Why not? Yeah U I loved this. I thought this is so good. This is a very jaws show me the way to go home. like definitely sort of moment. but I thought there's a I mean Two are u Iate listener who was like, why aren't you covering Widow's Bay week to week, The pathos here. so we have Patricia genuinely crying when Bashir is driving her home and she thinks he's driving her to the station and and she has thrown herself commutically on the sword of like Tom I got this and like getting herself in trouble once again, But Bashir is just sort of like being sympathetic to her. He's gonna to take Patricia home. and he's also like, tellell me what the fuck is going on. and also I don't care. I'm over it. I am done. So funny. Really good. worried about you, Ber. And then Tom and Wake O on the boat, Wick sort of giving his tragic backstory of what happened with his best friend and his girl, Jerry J kicking his friend off, you know, like this trauma that he has And then like Tom throwing him overboard to save him and like rescuing him. Like there's just like some real emotion and bonding and sort of like you have it in you like mutual respect building that's happening between these characters. I care about them so much I care about the relationships that they're building with each other. Even the line from Richard Warren when they go to when they take him to the Richard Warren Museum Ab how he spent years thinking about how his children died. I'm like, this is a throwaway line sandwich between a bunch of jokes. and I'm just like show me my children's things. The efficiency of that emotion, I think is one of Wows Bay's like strongest suits. L they just they really sneak it in and then all of a sudden, you feel kind of the dagger between your ribs as you're trying to walk through the rest of the episode I love that. Can I spoil another one of the jokes that I love? Do you want to just jump to those? Do just want to get into the categorory? Mbe. I don't know. Anything else you want to say in a big picture way before we do that? I think let's just get into it. Okay, Don't say I didn't warn you, is it in the gift shop, like The dissonance of being a man from seventeen oh two buried alive. for hundreds of years, coming back and seeing your life, your children's objects in a museum. Yes. this paper mache replica of your hated second wife. H have questions about that. and then a t shirt with your face on it and it says, don't say I didn't warn you I mean, who came up? didid Jerry come up with that Must have. I love. Literally who else works here? I love that. But also the restraint of the show. L another show might have come up with it. Yeah. But at some point it would be like Richard Warren's clothes get tattered and he has to literally wear the shirt. It's like, no, this is just in the background. Hanging on the wall. It's just there. Not even like full lightg. No. I was just like, what does that say? But also we need those shirts. You really, really do We do. All right, let's do the categories. Best bit of lore, We've already talked about plenty of this. What do you want to add? I mean, there's so much here Okay. I have a couple of questions slash general comments on what's happening here. Bell tolling. So we hear the bells toll on Richard and Sarah's wedding night. She goes off into the dark, comes back, and this is when she finds him like in communion with whatever beast he speaks to From that are we to interpret the Bell's tolling is like calling for the Lord for protector of the island? Is it for the sacrifice or is it for like a meeting? You know, is this the calendar? the apocalpse comes to? Basically Maybe. that's curious. I don't know. I was thinking of sort of like it's time I'm hungry. Do you remember? Yeah Do you remember it's a dinner bell. Do you remember what? the reverend read about like, should the bell chime We might have to go back into the archives on that one. I can't remember exactly what the language was It was it was basically like if the bell chimed like shut to go down. getting real. you know, it was definitely to that effect. I think it's I'm hungry. I mean One can follow the other. A littleittle shop of hors That's the general vibe around here these days. Yeah But what else is going? I mean, yeah, So like the idea of the pact, we kind of covered that a little bit in terms of the sacrificing of life. Yeah, the plague slash zombieing happening. I guess they're not really zombies. When Richard Warren is communing with the mushrooms or whatever it is he's doing. he's got the eyes rolled back in the head and the mouth open. Is that supposed to invoke the mouth open at Patricia's like witching party? I can't remember if their eyes rolled back in their head when I didn't e it. They had their eyes, I think, more fully fixed forward. but also I don't know if that's something that Hamish Linklater could do or if that's a contact lens situation or just like CGI that'd be a contact. I don't know. Some people can do that shit. If they're in communion with the beast. espe. com if you can roll your irises all the way to the back here. Some people can do it, but I there may be something to it, especially when you think about the idea of like, this is a man who has sold his soul, of like the extraction of even this kind of communication. that would make sense to me A play a pack. Yep You take Lamefill doorwell. Hi from Wick talking about You know, it's not just should you cross past this buoy, the light lights up gone too far dead zone. The dead zone Stephen King novel. Um, But also it' struck from below, struck hard saw a tentacle. There's like a Kraacken. It's gott toa be. Did you think about Buffy at Eat you starting with your bott You know I did not But this is why we do this podcast. You could remind me of the buffy references I have missed There's a critter in the water. There's tentacles in the water. I mean, now we're just getting real loveovecraftty in with it Here's here's my real question. Here's a real question I have. Okay That was also a real question, But here's a real question So Richher Warren says kill me, you end my bloodline. And if you end my bloodline Do we have secret warrants? Well, at the end of the, okay, so he says, if you end my bloodline packed over We're done We saw Sarah get in the boat with all the children. Yes. and like, you know, if the if the story of the of the island is true, those children Would have died, right? Presumably. Okay, exxcept for the one in the water for the war of the w Joe you've had died yourself. We get that close up on the painting of the one in the water. I thought the painting of the onene in the water or the zoom in and the revisiting of that was great. I almost interpret it watching as just like, oh, we're kind of like closing this loop. They all died was kind of my assumption, but I love the idea of the one in the water who got away And now now the curse lives on. And who Wh is the of the bloodline? Well, how do we identify a war, do you think? Like what are the telltale signs? We're going be the historical society on the case, I think Let's get let's get the genetic code down. Let's figure out like the biometric markers. Let's There's a lot to be answered for Press should v at Spotifyot com if you have a secret warar in theory Is it roosemary? Is it I mean, Rsemary would be among the funniest possible options., who is it It's got to be someone who has been introduced but hasn't been significant enough in terms of what they've been given to do yet Maybe it is Dale. Maybe Dale is the secret warrant. I'm excited to find. But while we're out at sea. so going beyond the dead zone is what causes people to die. Yes It's also the limit of the covenant with Richard Warren and the island or the beast or whatever. And so like I guess is the best way we know to explain what is happening in terms of the very existence of Widows B, Like the people who are going out past the dead zone and dying Are they products of the magic that made the island sustainable and thus that's why they're dying, do you think? Or is it simply that there's a sea creature out there who's scooping them up and eating them? Well yeah, the tentacle was like a new because I figured like given what we saw in the flashback with Tom and his wife, it's just like you grow this barrier. R. Some shit happens to you internally. But what if the tentacle isn't real? Like what if it was, you know, like his friend fell in the water I mean, you got to be really wary about metaphorical tentacles. L they would do damage to inside of the darkness of your heart, you know. That's the one I'm worried about the most And so I don't know what's real and what's kind of in these characters' imaginations sometimes. And like we've even seen that with kind of Tom and the haaunted Hotel, right? It's like this is a thing that's like kind of a nightmare, but kind of real I don't know. I don't know where one ends the other begins. I don't know what is the project like product of magic versus what is just a person literally dying because they' at sea. I love that we don't know Favorite city employee. This is usually where we talk about Patriciaa and it's an incredible Patricia thing, but I' Bashir is who I'm naming inside of. I mean, Bashir does have a great episode. Yeah. but I'm like I'm going to zoom out and just say it's Sarah, who' the Reeve Prime of the colony. And what is that if not a civic position You support women. I do support women. But I support Bashir as well. And yeah, his whole spiel with Patricia. I thought was really wonderful. Patricia seealing his car in the first place as we gott to say a very effective distraction, which he has Someone may have reported my screen m I then yeah, just sort of Kato Flynn C comedic genius, which is like fire in the show. I got this. Whenever Patricia does her like false like confidence thing, it's just really funny. And then yeah the whole like that with a car Tm watching with like his hand over his mouth But like if you have to smuggle out a coffin, you got to do something dramatic. So here's my question. Ber's like, I'm done, I'm out. I'm leaving my one week resignation. First of all, sir, there's too many episodes left. You are not leaving wife, which is our theory that he has a pregnant wife Like is Bashir making are Bashir and his wife making it off the island The horror movie formula tells us the sheer doubles back to help at an opportune time, right Um, I sure we' rooting for you. His wife has to make it because we haven't seen her. so it's like You can't hold this character back for so long, introduce her and then she dies. Well, if we haven't seen her because they're holding back a pregnancy reveal, which again, is just a theory that a listener wroteed, but I really think it's. I mean, you love to run with a pregnancy rumor closely women's bodies and make comments about them All right, favorite, obvious joke. I don't even know what is obvious and what's throwway anymore. So these two categories are kind of blending into one another Yeah. I'm going to say this is obvious and it's circling the amulet around Richard Warren's neck on the portrait in Sharpie. I'm just like, this could have been him pointing to it. This could have been a camera cut, but it's like, no, let's just let's just really commit to it and deface this portrait. For me, it's when Richard is talking to Tom about signing the covenant with his own blood feces and semen. Yeah this is a throwaway joke in part because not just the blood feces and semen, but the slow setting down and wiping of his fingers on his pants That might be in contention for the best best bit of the show so far. So good. then yeah, throwa away joke I'm gonna give it to casttering roollers on the suitcase. N met us and they should be stopped. What else deserves to shout out here? I think When the assassin comes to Richard Warren and Sarah has to like aggressively point him in the right direction to not get stabbed very good her just like dribbling the spiked brandy back into the cup. Again, it's like they're finding was just like undercut it ever so slightly, but it still feels menaceed. Right The seduction is happening and then she like takes us Yeah, Betty Gilpin. Eugenius, I love. The way she runs into the church screaming about Richard being alive and then has to like quietly cursy when she greets the room full of people she didn't expect. It's so good. All right, let's see. Then we have favorite horror movie referenced slash Easter egg. I would like to start with the black and white horror movie that Evan and Kelly are watching. I know what it is The City of the deead. Oh, AKA horror hotel orr hotel, o. In the United States, but it seems like City of the Dead is the honest to goodoodness original title. Rob, I love podcasting with you because I was like, Rob isn't gonna tyype in Christopher Lee and a line dialog and figure out what. I know the voice of Christopher Lee literally anywhere. I hear it in my dreams and my nightmares such as his power U So yeah, looking up a little bit about this movie, I've not seen. Have you seen it? No, I thought about watching it, but, you know, my week got busy. but I mean we should watch. There are limits, but Maybe before next week's episode we should find time to visit it. But I did read up about it. It' specifically a horror movie about a town in New England with a history of human sacrifice and witchcraft and deals with the devil. and you guessed it a haunted hotel. I mean, it They really know what they're doing in terms of the points of reference on this show. Yeah. Christopher Lee, our guy this is great. I loved this. Yeah Do I think Evan and Kelly She's been upgraded from off Island Girl. I know her name now it's Kelly. Yes. Do I think Evan and Kelly are sitting down to watch Horror Hotel from from nineteen sixty? I don't, but I enjoyed it being there Who do you think pulled it up If one of them pulled it up This is more of an Evan move. Yeah. 'cause Kelly would rather rifle through Tom Clearly But yeah, the fact that Evan is going to pull up a nineteen sixty horror movie that presumably he hasn't seen. He doesn't even seem too interested in it Well, what are what are the movie offerings on the island L. You don't think that you don't think that The island also has Roku City. Roku City is everywhere I don't know, because they don't have cell phones. and like they they're all like Tube television. They have wiifi I assume. A video store, like a videoroid. Like what are you know, what are we doing? When did the movies stop? like, what's the cutoff d? Because clearly they can access nineteen sixty, but I think they must have color TV. This's not all black and white. Yeah. areren't they watching areren't they watching a baseball game or like somebody was watching or I want to say maybe there was even like a tennis match or something happening. mayaybe I'm getting my shows blending together at this point. But like, yeah, I do think they have access to television. I was just curious how like How many channels do you get on the island? I don't know. But this is apparently the movie you watch, if you want to maintain respectful distance from your off island would be hopeful girlfriend. Like they're very far away on that couch.. But maybe he was hoping she would like leap up in terror and like hop into his life. that doesn't seem that scary. That's where you have to go more modern horror. Yeah I will also say the We are in deep, deep, lost territory with a lot in this episode. The wick toom dynamic of like the Man of Science Man of Faith has always been there. How does it feel to say that on yet another podcast? I never tire of it. But when they're charting a course And you hear garbled chattering on the radio. of like the islands playing games. I'm just like That's the lw shit right there. It's extremely lw shit. Also just in terms of the horror trope part of that. I just love haunted static.. Like if you if you're on a plane or a boat there's a ghostly voice saying M day, May day I'm fucking dialed in. I'm here. I'm going down with the ship. That's how invested I am Let haunts scare spook or fright. Yeah, I think this one is going to have to be for me, Sarah trying to negotiate with plague ridden Abigail on the dock her kind of emergence from from you know, whatever pit she has climbed her way out of. And the like tar black blood that's on her bile like Yeah there's just something like again, insisting she's not sick And then there's always something about like a zombieiesque kind of scream and lunge that I think iss just so effective here. Was that scarier or Tom lunging for his loafer scarier, what do you think? Itpes on if you're a loafer. know if you're a loaer you don't w tona see Tom coming. If you're an employee of the one gas station on the island, you definitely don don't want to see. What was your biggest spook Honestly We saw multiple eye gouges a real lifeood and then also Sarah like the paper mache. What did you make of that? I don't know. Is that the go to killing move of seventeen oh two? It might have been. It was really in season Youotta catch those eyes. Yeah, there was something and I wonder if that's another element where there's gonna be an eye thematic tie in of some kind of whether it's like the demon possessed people, whether it's the people afflicted by this plague or whatever.'s like, I want those eyes. Ebody's Ring the bell. I want those eyes. Yeah, the fact that when given the opportunity Yeah, that's exactly what he went for on the paper mache model of his wife One that if we're just going to talk the construction of the show, looks a lot like Betty Gilpin and the props work. And frankly, have a portraits of Richard, but the in world whoever did the in world paper Mache model. Yeah, really did her justice. New England's best kept secret A a moment where you thought, huh, wouldould it actually be nice to live here? Yeah, I didn't have that this week. didn't have that sensation a sheer, a nice cuub A nice local cop, who you can trust. How quickly we've gone from fuck you big to a nice c you can trust? It just takes having One cop on the island He has a deputy, like there's because there are other people in the police station. Although I don't know. This is on brand for you because the moment in which he appeals to you is the moment he quits being a cop. He's like, I'm putting in my notice. I'm out of here. cop so good he doesn't want to be a cop anywmore. That's I mean, that's the catch point. That's whereere do you find that guy?' on an island. I mean a spooky haunted island. If I were to find something in these two episodes, it's not going be in seventeen oh two in terms of when I want to be living there But always would aspire to be not someone with a boat, but someone who knows somebody with a boat. And so the idea that Wick, you know, your sometimes crazy buddy could just take you out to a reasonable distance at sea. Who can enjoy a day like that? I got served a video that I almost sent to you of Matthew Rese being interviewed for Eater. And it was so it was like a great because I guess he like owns a seafood restaurant in New York. We should go, don't you think? On company dive. Yeah. That's research. So he's like sitting there with the interviewer eating like lobster rolls and like baked oysters and talking about like his his like seeafood, talkal about Widows Bay, but talk about this like seafood restaurant that he ownss like a little Seafood shack on a dock. And then also, I guess he owned a boat at one point. And so the interviews like, why was your boat named rarebit? like Welsh rarebit was named rarebit. He he's like Oh, that's what it was named. It's like a superstition thing. you're not supposed to rename boat. I didn't know that. I didn't know that either. He's like, but it was kind of, I bought a wooden boat. I thought it would be charming. Turns out it was a lot of upkeep, sold the boat. I don't have it anywmay. There's so much work. But he does not have a boat, but he probably knows someone who has a boat. but it was this is just for me, sorry, this's not great podcasting I thought like, At the very end of the episode, we see the interviewer. It's my friend Nadia, who used to work for Eater Austin and now she works for Eater New York. and I was like, Nadia. Breakaking Matthew Rese newews get to the bottom of the boat business. Matthew Rese. I was so excited. I was like, wow, first of all, I didn't know she had moved to New York years ago. And secondly I didn't know she's out here interviewing Matthew Rhese You should watch that interview. It's very charming. He's talking about seafood in Widow's Bay and it's great. This is how people keep up with each other in modern times. You know, in seventeen oh two, you're just walking across town trying not to trip over a chicken as you implore the help of a preacher. Now you're like, Hey, here's my friend who I didn't know lives in this other city and I find that out via an eater New York video. Yeah, the Instagram Reel delivered for me. Thank you so much All right, the Reist piece, Any you want to say about Matthew Rese that we haven't already? Yeah, I think the specific recoiling he does when Richard Warren speaks for the first time after the noteepage shenanigans have begun like pops out of his chair, fully recoils, does like a hold his breath and puff his cheeks kind of like form of terror. He's just inventing new ways to be scared. And I'm loving it as a counterpoint to that, by the end of that episode We see a part of Tom that we haven't really seen on this show, a part of Matthew Reesecent performance that haven't really seen on the show, which is him like really flexing. Like the I did very fucking good. I've seen that Matthew Rese before. I love that version of Matthew Reese. Tom just usually isn't that kind of guy and frankly hasn't had that much to celebrate Mine is a plusing of last week's, which was about his inability to vomit. And this is him trying to handle his seasickness by sticking his head out the window like a labrador. He can't vomit, but he's clearly seas sick. so he's just like, I get seasick very easily. I get motion sick very easily. and that is like Such a good hack is like try to just inhale as many lungfuls of cold air as you can. It really helps if you're You're not gonna to get invited on rarebit that way. I know And I deserve to go right, the root of the map So I think this is a good time to kind of revisit the tragic backstory part of that and especially the way it's used within the show, which is like all of these hints and allusions to the fact that Tom is like such a feckless coward of a leader. where he says he's going to like loosen Richard Warren's ropes a little bit and then just basically lets him out. says he's like has his fake conversation with Wick about like should we let him out of the coffin, but also pan up And he's just sitting there at the table That was spoiler, that's my favorite. Steven was like when he pops. And there's just this desiccated man sitting there in the galley Yeah The fact that you can ground all that in thiss like very real, as you alluded to with the pathos of the show, this' very real, terrifying bit of history about where Wick and Jerry and you know, her fallen brother have come from Yeah. It's just so artfully done and so well balanced and the calibration on this show never ceases to amaze me. And I would say Stehen Rod is as big a part of that as anybody is. The tragic backstory of like us not knowing like the the sort of like subtle offh handed way we've learned so much about his relationship with Jerry.. he's clearly like still like uck on her, right? Like he still likes her. He wants to be handled with some cotton gloves? Absolutely. He And so we're like, why aren't they together? They were They were sweethearts when they were young. What happened? Well, like clearly overwhelmed by guilt over being involved in the death of her brother Did he break up with her? Did she does she know what happened and she broke up with him? Like Well, even if she believes her brother just drowned in the ocean, like that could be more than enough to decimate a relationship like that. It's sad., inccredibly so All right, speaking of young love Evan and Kelly. Yeah. We didn't talk about this in the lore, but like this is a big reveal is that you and you had sort of we had been talking about this. We weren't sure exactly what we saw his old wife In the hospital bed. It's like very terrifying. But we see that she was still alive in some form or another Yeah after Evan's birth was something Evan didn't know So to encounter photographs of yourself with your mom who you thought died before or when you were born. And the way he says, I knew her. Yeah I was just really, I thought that was really good It's a hits her in the chest. and yet again, a moment where I think Woodowsbade does a great job of sort of balancing the interpretations of those photos where she does look like just haunted and vacant enough. It's hard to tell static image You can't really tell. but like yeah, she's kind of starting off in the distance. So was she just like not there Yeah and that and so they like hit the truth Or is it a tasteful candid We can never know. We really don't know. But I think we have to talk about Kelly by association. Like these off Island girls only want one thing and it's to rifle through all of your parents stuff. Are you out on the off Island girls now? She just the way she goes, who's not supporting women now The way she goes from, I'm just sitting on this couch not paying attention to this old horror movie too, can we just ransack your dad's room? Well, I think they've seed that before with you noted this, Evan just going through his dad's day.ure So like, but he's like, you know, even he seems a little hesitant to lock boxs at the bottom of the trunk and she takes a paperclip and just like that is not ex. She has a bad influence on him., you know girls. They're too fast. They're way too fast for our boy, Evan. You know, he needs to be protected. He's a sensitive boy All right, any theories that we haven't talked about already? I don't have anything beyond the seecret warant idea. You know honestly, I don't have anything else. I think we covered pretty extensively all the lore that these episodes dredudge up. and frankly, we don't even know what to make of it all yet, Iight here's a question. Do you think that the underground tunnels, we know that they go to the well We know that they connect to the sacrificial chair Yeah, which I believe we were shown to be almost directly underneath the salty whale. But do we know where geographically speaking in Widows Bay Richard Warren's house would have been. I wonder if it's Tom's house. is it just that simple that it's true but that doesn't feel like a house he like got when he became mayor. right. You know, that's the house he raised. That's Yeah. Evan's been there his whole life, I would assume. it still could be. I don't know If you can draw a map of Widows Bay. We love a map. We would love to have it If you have more Babauking to share with us, we'd love to hear it. If you think My comparison of Rob and Beto over work is accurate.. No, we would. we want your theories. I really want your theories. We are recording this early so we have not had a chance to see how people are reacting to these episodes. and I'm sure there are things that the Reddit detectives got that we missed. So Psty TV at sppotify dot com keep those widows bay emails coming and we will be covering this week to week for the rest of the season. I'm really excited about it. And also before we get out of this, want I want to I feel like we bagged on episode six a little bit for just like not being the version of the show that we love. Not unfairly. Not like bag Noust like it was