Recovering From a Sophisticated Scam

to you by the Every dollar app. Start budgeting for free today Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsy Network in the Fairwins credit union stududio, this is the Ramsy showhow. I'm George Cambell here with Jade Warshaon. We're taking your calls at tri eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two five. Reggie's kicking us off in Chicago. What's going on, Reggie Hey, what's going on guys? So a little dilemma that I find myself in, We saved up a ton for college for my son, put it in the college fund, it grew to like one hundred twenty thousand dollars. I thought for sure that would be enough to get him through like three, maybe four years. And we're coming up on year two, it looks like it'll all be eaten up by the end of year two. W. And you know I feely school. Yeah, we thought he'd be able to get some help. We thought we'd be able to get a financial aid package or or some kind of assistance k, but So far, no luck because we're making too much money, they say, and we've saved up too much on the side. What's it cost every year? It's about sixty five thousand dollars right now. Wow.. What do you guys make? Yeah U J just over two hundred U And so the options we're looking at is, you know, I've got the house for now, we've got a pretty nice house right now. hoping to take some you know, equity out of there to help him. Oh boy.'s I study. You're gonna take a HLOC to pay for your kids college. No, no, I was just going to sell the house and bu another one for cash and then put the money aside. Okay. Would you downgrade anyways or was this just for the purpose of cash flow college We our house like doubled in value in about five years. and so we were thinking about just like you know making some cash off it and slightly downgrading. We love the place, but you know, with property taxes and everything else going up too, we thought We could kind of, you know have a win win here and put the money aside and help him as well. What would be the equity? What would you take if you sold it We're looking at like one point two million and then to buy something for about seven thousand or eight hundred thousand dollars Okay Let me ask you this, what's he studying and is he the only child? No, he's not the only child his sisters coming up behind in about four years and there's not as much sa for her atountsco probably have the same problem there And he is he's a film major actually not too far from you guys at Belmont University there Okay. interestnteresting. What's his end goal with you making What's that? What's his end goal with filmmaking I mean, he's already put out his own documentary that's on Netflix and amazing. Amazon Prime right now. Yeah. He was able to put something out professionally in high school. so That's nuts. What does he need school for? That's my question. I'm concerned about that People are going to school to get the degree to hopefully one day be on Netflix. And he's already on there I hear you. I hear you. I mean so I have I have no degrees and my wife has four degrees. so we kind of see it both ways. I mean, I don't think I don't think you need a degree to do something great. Absolutely. But at the same time like. He I mean, he's he's filing it there and you know, he's connected in on music Row there and with a lot of people there. So We do think there's some benefits there. It's also a Christian university So we're, enjoying that aspect of him kind of growing up in that But it's just more than we thought we'd ever end up paying And Hing to figure out should we let him, you I mean, even if he takes a part time job, it's not going to help that much. I mean, F your income is the secret sauce here. So've you've So obviously there's a problem to solve. I agree with you on that. You've explored the avenue of solving the financial side of it. Has there been any talk or exploration on what other education avenues there are? Like is there another way that he could pursue some education in the same field that's not at the expense of Belmont that you guys can actually afford. I would love for you guys to explore that side of the equation because It does exist, and I would hate for you to feel like you're backed against this wall. This is the only place he can go to school U Yeah, You you see what I'm saying. What have you guys looked at on that side of the equation? Yeah, we've looked around a little bit. We haven't really done all of our homework there. He's kind of He's got a hard head a little bit. so like when he finds a path he likes to you know, that's how he was able to put out his own documentary in high school basically, right? He just gets stuff done. So That's true, but he's not he's not getting done there. He has well Can I talk to you like parent to parent It's not his choice because you're paying. So you do He doesn't get to choose that part, right? You can say, we can either afford this or we can't. We're willing to do this or we're not. So you still do hold a level of say so in this conversation, and I don't want you to forget that because Selling your house and taking the equity is a huge step. George and I haven't asked you what you have in retirement yet and you know that the sister is coming on down the line and there could be some expense there. So let's ask those questions. What do you guys have locked away in retirement? Hopefully it's juy We Yeah, we've been teaching FPU for a while. We haven't in the last five years since COVID, but we've followed the Ramsy principles for a long time. So we have over a million in retirement right now. The house is a million plus. Awesome. And what really kind of interner U aboutout one hundred and ten or so right now. Oh. Okay, that's good. So you're talking like two million. You'll walk away in profit of like nine hundred thousand dollars, something like that. Yeah, the goal is over a million. Yeah, and then buy something for, you know, I'm fine buying something for six or seven and you know, just putting some cash on the side. So Okay. I the option It's gonna be your choice but here's your options. Number one, of course, sell the house, use some of the profits to cash flow the rest of college and probably lock some away for the daughter or two. Option two, we don't sell the house and we use this income that you have and that's going to mean sacrifices in the budget to go. We got to cash flow sixty grand of school out of our two hundred thousand dollars in income That's option to And then the last option is what Jay's been talking about, which is Could he transfer to Middle Tennessee state if they have a filmmaking program and still be just as fine And he's got relationships, keep building those relationships, keep getting indoors, keep working on set. like all of those on the job experiences is really what's going to help him So yeah, those are the three options. I tell you this is this company has hired a lot of guys who have went to film school or have the audio degrees in this media creative space and They don't get paid more because they went to Belmont versus MTS. tell you that right now. So I just want to make sure that we're clear on the ROI of this degree. And again, he's the secret sauce in all this, not this piece of paper that says Hey you sat in class and did great and maybe learned a thing or two the realing arts Yeah making the films, making the connections, building his you know portfolio, getting on Netflix. His professor probably doesn't have a documentary on Netflix. He should be teaching this class Yeah, yeah, no's I mean I think we're on the same page there. So I just wanted to hear somebodyse say it. So I appreciate you guys. Have him watch this call and he can message me and you know just rip me a new one if he's upset. but I just think he's so sharp that we need to look at this a little bit more You know, cautiously to go, dude, do you really want to graduate with a bunch of debt? No, that's off the table. That's off the table And you guys selling your house making all these sacrifices, you can do that your're awesome parents. but it just feels like a pretty drastic move for something that's avoidable. Yeah. And I also want to call this out too and I don't know that this is true, but it's worth saying. I think a lot of times you can get focused on the notoriety of the way a university title sounds. Oh, they went to Belmont. Oh they went to Jilliard, Oh, they went to Harvard. Princeton. Princeton Ivy League Sorry a lot of conversations to have, Reggie. I hope you can talk to him and come up with a game plan. The key is you guys are unified on what the plan is. There's no surprises and you make peace with whatever decision you make Out of those three, you gott to make peace with him guys. All right, this is a season. It's not forever. We're going to be okay, but the goal is we're going to avoid debt and make sure he graduates in four years or less. This show is sponsored by Better Help Summer is here and listen, everything changes this time of year. The kids are out of school, the routines go out the window, you're traveling more, you're for sure sleeping less. And if you're not careful, you and your family can end up running on fumes. Here's the truth. If you don't slow down this summer and take care of yourself, all that stress is not just going to disappear. It's going to show up in your body, in your work, in your relationships, your patients. It's going to show up everywhere This is why I'm a big fan of Better Help Better Help is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. All of their therapists follow a strict code of conduct and you can message your therapist or schedule sessions right in the Better Help app If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Listen, you don't have to carry everything all by yourself this summer betteretterhelp. com slash Ramsay to get ten percent off Better Help HELP dot com slash Ramsy Suusy is up next in Koxville, Tennessee, Suszie, welcome to Ramsy Sh. Thank you very much. How's everybody today? We are doing great. It's a pleasure to talk to you. U I recall As I tolded in I answered the phone retired I'm sixty nine years old. I have a security after Medicare taken out it's eighteen hundred a month. I get attention that two ninety three seventy and less twice a month. mayaybe three times I do a little side thing on the weekend and make extra one hundred each time. which I pay my tides first, I pay my bills I have excellent credit. but if something comes up out of the way, my washer tears up, I need new tires. I have to put on the credit card because I don't have it sitting around. I had emergency done thousand saved and something happened that I had to use that Now right now I have u, bill where I's in the hospital, five hundred I'm paying thatte every month or get it paid off. But I just feel strapped when I was working as a nurse. I made Good man, I'm thankful for what I get, but If something comes up, I'm just, I feel like I'm in the hole again. Yeah. So any suggestions would help. Thank you Suusie, yeah, I can imagine how you're feeling, you know, It's just one thing goes wrong and it kind of just sets off a crisis financially. How are you living right now? Are you in a paid for house? Are you renting? Do you have a mortgage? What's going on there I have a mortgage and I've been adding some to it because I'd dread if I can get an extra payment each year, then that takes off so manys years. So what's the mortgage payment every month like four hundred and seventy nine, I've been putting an extra forty or fifty with it Okay. that extra It was my parents' house for years and then moved down here in W rent for a while, but now I bought it. What's left to go on that mortgage probably I don't know fifty seven or thousand And then I have a car that should be paid off within six months. Can you tell us what the mortgage is worth If you were to sell that house, not that you will aboutbout one hundred fifty thousand, maybe I think I saw that And that was where they raised the taxes to and they said it was worth that. Okay right now in this area, some homes are and a thousand, something to two thousand I wouldn't be able to. So me let me recap your debt here. You have about five hundred dollars in medical debt You've got the fifty thousand on the mortgage and then what's left on that car loan probablyrobably six thousand. That's what I'm saying. I'm hoped to have it.. Anytime I've had money along the way, I put it toward the principal And so that's about what's left. so I'm looking about six months have it paid off. And is there anything else on the credit card, Susie? because you said you were putting other things like tires and thingsings like that Well, before I got sick with pneumonia, I had paid those back down to Zero So right now, it's just what was left that the insurance didn't pay and a couple of c pays while I wentigh in. but I've already paid two hundred for that. so there's about five hundred and something last. Okay. And you're bringing home about twenty one hundred do a month total U That sounds one hundred and that and R? And then the two hundred for this sideite I do, but one of those side things I always pay my car insurance out of one, which doesn't take it all. So we'll call it twenty thousand three hundred a month. Okay too be fair. Now, Susie, what about your health? You mentioned medical bills, Tell us about your health. Are you able to if you did want to get out there and do something, are you able to get out there and do a small small amount of work if you needed to Well, that's why I do that on the side where I make the extra two hundred and sixty nine. And I said nurse for almost thirty years, so that's all I'm going to say. No, it'd be hard to do a regular job Right. R bad shoulders, bad knees just keep on. Wow. you know, And like I say, I know I pay ties, God's thankful, but it's just Symptoms are away on and you know, I just get frustrated with what I call feeling strapped. Yeah. abbsolutely I have a there's hard all around Yeah It's going to be hard either way. It's going to be hard to sacrifice and work fifteen hours a week. It's going to be hard to stay in the cycle that you're in. And so at this point it's going, all right, what's the hard that's going to get me to where I want to go F years from now ten years from now. you know, God willing you live another thirty years. Where are we going to be? How are we going to be living As inflation continues and our income stays fixed. Now your social seecurity will go up incrementally, but not enough to make a dent And so what you're doing now is doing a lot of you're doing a lot of good things. You're just doing them all at the same time. and that's why you're dreading water. So I would stop any extra payments on anything except for your smallest debt right now. And really you need to get that thousand dollars emergency fund stacked back up So if you stopped all of your extra payments, you kept the side work, could you save up three, four, five hundred dollars in a month to put away in savings. you I could say something, you know, I'm just not for sure. it just seems like I said. I always pay my tes first And u So that comes off first and And we want you to do that off first. Have you ever done a budget Susie where you laid out, Okaykay, here's my twenty thousand three hundred, hereere's all of my expenses because you seem to know your numbers well. down to the pennies Well, I hunt for that penny too if I can't find it. But I pretty much when it goes in the bank, sometimes I even get up And when I know it's in there and I pay everything off and then what I have left, I have left. Okay, so yeah, I think we want George and I want you to get a little more organized and make the plan before that check hits And so we're gonna make sure we give you every dollar. It's really easy to use, It's very intuitive. And that way, let's pretend you get paid on the fifteenth. You can go in there on the first and start planning. Here's the way I want to spend that money. and it'll kind of let you make choices. So once you've put your minimum payments in there, you'll be able to see how much margin you have. margin is just whatever is leftover And to George's point, instead of saying, okay, I'm going to use that margin to put extra on the house or I'm going to use that margin to do something over here, take all that margin and start paying off that medical debt. It's good that you're not currently putting anything, you know on credit cards or What you can do, Susie is kind of take that moment and look out over the horizon and say, okay, what do I see that could potentially be something outside of my normal budget? Do I need an oil change? you know am I starting to notice that the tires are getting bald? And really take that time to plan and say, okay, I actually might need to instead of putting ra on the debt this month. I might need to plan for an oil change or. I might need to plan to replace these tires or I might do you see what I'm saying? And the budget will really help you get ahead and be able to take care of the things because we think that you have the margin to kind of cash flow things as they come, at least at this point. But if we can get you doing that and then grradually pay off this five hundred dollars, gradually build up a little bit more savings beyond the thousand, then suddenly you get in a place where if something pops up, it may be an emergency, but it won't feel like a crisis. and you certainly won't have to lean over and rely on credit cards or debt Seriously, we're rooting for you to figure this out, get out of this consumer debt, build up an emergency fund. And at this point, it's going to be surviving for the foreseeable future unless we can see a change in that income. if you can get your health and energy back up to work, even a little bit would go a long way. If you can double that three hundred to six hundred bucks That's breathing room right there. And Jade, it's a stark reminder for everyone out there that social security will not be enough. And if you're young, it may not exist. And I'm looking at the data here. The trust fund will be depleted by twenty thirty two. That doesn't mean it's going to go away. It just means that the benefits would be reduced by about twenty percent Which for someone like Susie, imagine her getting a pay cut of twenty five percent. Yes, it was already not enough. And for Susie, if I were in your shoes, it sounds like you're in a good church community. I'd be looking for families who need somebody to sit with the kids for a few hours before mom and dad get home. If you can get into that area, that's something that you can do to make a lot of money fast and it's you know you can You don't have to be on your feet all day or anything like that. So try to get involved with some families that need help with Not babies, but younger kids healthcare is one of the biggest stress points in your budget. It's confusing and most of the time, it feels completely out of your control But there is a better way to handle it Christian healthcare ministries isn't health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry where Christians share each other's medical bills. And it's not a new idea. THM has been around since nineteen eighty one. It's predictable and proven, and they've shared over thirteen billion dollars in medical bills for their members Plus, you get more flexibility. There are no network restrictions and you don't have to wait for open enrollments. Let's talk about how CHM helps your budget because programs start at just one hundred and fifteen dollars a month And many families save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional options. So if you are tired of feeling stuck Check out Christian Healthcare Ministries. Right now, CHM is offering new members a fifty percent credit towards their first month of membership Go to cHministries dot org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's cHministries dot org slash budget and use promo code Ramsey. Buying or selling your home is high stakes because one bad deal could cost you tens of thousands. You don't want to overpay for your next house or sell your current home for less than its's worth. And that's why Ramsay Trusted connects you with vetted real estate agents who have the experience to guide you step by step to make smart decisions, not expensive mistakes. Connecting is easy. You can compare agent profiles, interview your top choices, and pick the right one for you Find a local Ramseay trusted agent who has your best interest at heart for free at Ramslutions dot com slash agent or click the link in the description if you're on YouTuber podcast Hunter is in Hartford, Connecticut up next. What's going on, Hunter How's it going We're doing great How are you I'm not too bad. Gad I got into talk to you guys today. We're happy to talk to you. What's going on? What's your question today So I've just been recently engaged U and we're looking to get married sooner than later. but she has about eighteen thousand dollars in debt between a car loan and student loans. I live at home. We both li at home stillill have a very stable job and Financially, I have a lot saved up in savings. How much? What makes sense About one hundred and thirty five thousand. Nice. wayay to go. How old are you twenty three. Wow, what do you make About last year, I think' wass calln like eighty eight thousand Good. You're crushing it, man. Okay So no wedding date. She's got eighteen K. You're debt free with a whole bunch of money in the bank Pretty much like We'd obviously like to get house sooner than later, but The market' kind of tough right now. L we don't want to just jump on something just to live together. We're both comfortable at home and everything But yeah, you know, looking B better to save the money But I just don't know, you know, I totally agree with Dave's rule. You know, once you say I do You are you're one. everythingthing should be together and that's my parents have made it work, that's how I see things Would it make sense to start that debt free and clear our marriage pretty much from the start Or am I better off putting that, say twenty thousand into invest in even more or something I mean, There's no date on the books And so I would not put any money onto her debt until to your point, until the day that you say I do U in the meantime Because you've said that it's also important for you that you guys are thinking about buying a house, I probably would not invest that money. I'd probably park whatever's left after you paid off the Well, and this is assuming there's debt left by the time you get married, by the way, because she should be working hard to pay that off in the meantime. But I'd probably keep that one hundred and thirty five parked in a high yield savings account. I'd separate it though. I'd put aside what you think is going be three to six months of your expenses At least three months of projected expenses once you were to move into a house. and then I'd put the rest aside and start piling up a down payment. The reason I said three months of what you project your expenses will be is because you've said, hey, we want to move into a house. We know that that's going to be more expensive, right than living at home. So really think about what that would be withith a mortgage and with some of the other things that are required living in your own place. And I'd make sure to have that stacked up. But my biggest expectation is I'd be talking with her now and say, okay, these are my philosophies on debt. What's your philosophy? And do you plan on working hard to get this paid off in the meantime? I mean, I know we don't have a date set I'd be looking to see if she's hitting the ground running on this debt Yeah, no, one hundred percent. She was paying pretty much like closose to seventy percent of what she makes throwing into everything she has Well it should mostly be gone for it. Yeah. And whatever's left. yeah, let's pile our money together and one checking your savings account and go all right, let's clear the debt. Let's have the emergency fund. anythingy left becomes our down payment money And then see where you're at. Okay. Now I will say, let me just Let me add this to the mix. So I feel like that P part of the subject is kind of put to bed Let's talk about the house buying part because both of you have been living at home. It sounds like both of you have never lived on your own. Honestly, George, I would advise you guys to rent someplace first. as opposed to just jumping right into home buying because home buying is a fabulous thing. It's a wonderful thing. It's necessary to build wealth But at the same time, it is a huge change in life and if you've never lived on your own, I would start with maybe renting an apartment or renting a small place together just to get the feeling of what it feels like, get that first year of marriage under your belt. Yeah. gettingetting married is already enough of a change. so to add home ownership on top of that is just gonna to feel like wh I just grew up real fast. So there's no rush to buy a house. You were doing so well. I have no fear that you're going to buy a great house and do with a whole lot of peace with this wonderful gal. So it's kind of logistics at this point of paying off the debt. I would not wait until her debt is paid off to get married I would go ahead and go, hey, we're engaged What are we doing in wasting time here? Like don't you want to Move in and spend your life together. Yeah, what is the hold up? Exactly So U like we've been together since high school, so we've been together seven years and Now it just seemed like the right time where I felt financially enough that I could support her worst case or something happened U The main reason also right now is like getting married soon and later is for health insurance. Okay. Oh because you're going off of like mom and dad's Correct. Yeahah.ike I've had mine since I was nineteen when I started my job which I work for the state, so it very good benefits and very good health insurance. Okay. but she's kind of in need of the insurance And So that was kind of the thing of like, I wasn't sure since it would be like a sooner than later Kind of move and d and stuff. Are you saying she's on her parents insurance and she'd lose that once you're married Correct And then you can't add to yours once you're married L the main reason for getting married soon would be to get her on like the better insurance to see got it. doctor. No, I don't love making a marriage choice based off of insurance. I would much rather you guys make it based off of here's when we think it's time you know, u We feel not about this. Like the insurance is is a part of it Um, that was just like the assurance was like the urgency of it But who's been saying like, I mean probablyably three years now I've been saying, I have a wife, that's just we' not marri Well That's neither here nor there. You gott to get married before you have a wife. It's like I' free otherther than this loan. I gotta pay for the girl. Yes. I'm gonna say it again. if it's time to get married, go ahead and get married. Don't let life insurance stop you, but my biggest pieces of advice to you, there's three pieces. So this is your homework Write it down. Number one, you said this and George and I said it, don't pay off any debt until you're married. That's number one. Th number two is I would advise that you rent a little while, at least one year before you get married. And thing number three, this is a new topic. When you do go to purchase a house, please, please, please. keepeep in mind, if you know, you guys seem like your're planners and you're we're going to do this and they're gonna to have babies Just when you buy a house, think about what it might look like if one of you were to stay home with a baby, okay? And make sure you're buying a house based off what those plans are. Don't bite off more than you can chew because You know, all of that matters in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, if you kept that mortgage payment to twenty five percent of your after tax monthly income, That's a win. Then anything she brings in is gravy. And now you guys are doing great. You could pay off the house. I mean, this is what my wife and I did, Hunter, and this is not saying it's prescriptive. You don't have to do this. But my wife and I got really aggressive. We almost treated baby step six paying off the house like baby step two We knocked that thing out in twenty six months. And then when we started a family and had a baby, it wasn't a financial discussion about could she stay home? It was just an emotional one And she left her nine year career here at Ramseay. And so I want you to have those kinds of options. And that's why we don't want you to rush into anything, do everything with peace. You're twenty three. Average homeowner is now forty years old When I saw that I almost out of my chair. So you are ahead of the curve. Don't let anyone say man, house. Now you got time, you got time, brother. You got a lot of time and I'm not worried about him. And then I one more question too. Hit me What should I be putting into like for my future here? Like I have a four one kid, I have a penschion, stuff like that. Yeah What else should I be putting into right now being this young and having the savings. Oh, I got you, Hunter. I'm going to gift you a virtual ticket to investing Eesssentials. It's happening september first and second and you can tune in, watch Dave Ramsey and I unpack This wealth playbook of how we've created so many millionaires, what Dave actually does with his money and we'll walk through the exact steps, the exact sort of waterfall you should do with that fifteen percent that we recommend investing. That's the step that you're on currently. And the truth is, though, if you want, Hunter, you can wait up to three years. If you say, I want to forego investing for a while While we're saving up a down payment and potentially doing what George said and paying full cash for home, I might absolutely do that. You're twenty three years old, you've got plenty of time. and to be able to buy a house in cash is really a major deal for you. Compound growth will do the heavy lifting as you work for the next thirty to forty years. So taking a year or two off to get into that house could be worth it I'm all about practical ways to save time and mental energy, especially during the summer when life gets busy. Between vacations, camps, deliveries, travel plans, online shopping, and trying to keep everyone organized. My mental load can get pretty full. That's one of the reasons why I love Deletee. Most people don't realize How many data broker sites have their information online, like old addresses, phone numbers, and even family connections And that can put you at risk of being a target for spammers and scammers. But removing all of it yourself can turn into a giant project. That's why Delete Me is amazing because Delete Me handles it for you. Their privacy team of experts removes your personal information from hundreds of data broker sites and they keep monitoring it throughout the year. So far Delete me has saved me about ninety hours, I would have spent myself removing my information And honestly, it feels so good knowing that someone is in the background, helping me and I don't even have to think about it. So this summer, give yourself a vacation with one less thing to manage. Get twenty percent off annual plans at joinsaleiteme dot com slash Ramsey. That's joinedeleiteme dot com slash Ramsey irst up next in Hntsille, Alabama. What's on, Christopher Hey, not too much. how you guys doing? We're doing great. What's your question today? That's wonderful. Hey. So I just want to say thank you guys first of all for everything you guys do. I've been pulling the baby steps for the last three years, having stepp from baby step one and currently baby step six. Way to go having gone through FPU, and I've paid off about fifty thousand dollars in consumer debt and saved up about two hundred thousand dollars for my mortgage, which is leades to the question at hand. So basically I had this lump sum for my mortgage. know I kept that fire going after I paid off all the consumer debt U met my wife, married my wife. She shout out to her for putting up with all my crazy ramsy antics over the last couple of years. But we've kept that fire going and we've been able to save up know the amount of money that we owe on the mortgage. Wow. Luckily for me, I bought a house in COVID, so I locked in a really low interest rate. So it's an interest rate of two point nine percent And I've got that amount. We've got about two hundred thousand saved. We owe about one hundred sixty thousand dollars on a mortgage. And so I'm really, really struggling. I'm definitely the nerd, super analytical looking at everything, you know, looking at all the numbers and from some really rough calculations I've done, putting that money into a brokerage account over the course of the remainder of the mortgage, which is about twenty four years Essentially, the principal amount made on that amount would essentially pay the mortgage every month, right? And then at the end, I would still have that principal amount that I put into the brokerage account plus some additional money. So I'm just really, really struggling with knowing what to do whether to take that money and put it in the house and just be completely back no longer have a mortgage or put it into that brokerage account. You know, a safe, brokerage account tracking the S and P five hundred know that is going to get that anywhere from six percent to twelve percent, you know, if not more yield, depending on the year overver the course of the next twenty four years, I'm just I'm stuck. I don't know what to do. You'veated your way into oblim. And Christopher, you're you're not wrong You're not wrong, by the way, to I love that you ran out those numbers and I love that you did the math on that. And I'll be honest with you, this is probably one of the teachings that we have that's not about the math. It's not about the numbers It's more about the mentality behind it. And Dave will tell you, I'll tell you, George will tell you,s people forget to account for risk and they forget to account for peace in this equation And I have a good feeling, George, you've paid off a mortgage, so you're probably It's better to talk about this. but He's leaving out what it feels like to actually have a paid off mortgage You know, he's leaving out the idea of If you did have a paid off mortgage Would you borrow against it to invest? And the answer is likely no. I mean, I could tell you, I've been hosting the show not as long as Dave, I've hosted for four years. I've never once heard someone call back and say, I paid off my mortgage and I hated it, and I'd like to go get another mortgage, please. so that can I'd like to borrow against it so I can invest. I just never heard it Yeah, Christopher, I can't outmath you on this one because there's too many variables, right? We're comparing something that's a guaranteed obligation, which is your mortgage versus something with a variable return, the market. And I understand twenty four years, I believe you. It's going up and the right' right And you probably could make a spread The question I have for you is what is your what's your end game here? What's your goal Is it to have four point nine million versus four point six million? Be that's probably what we're talking about here Yeah, no, one hundred percent. And that's I'm really glad you asked that question because ultimately, you know, I think for me it's ultimately, what is the price of that piece, right? And that's what I got to decide. That's the decision I'm struggling with What's your wife say What's she say about it? She supports me. She is such a sweetheart. She supports me. She trusts me with finances. But what's her opinion? Very involved book. What's her opinion? I know she trusts you, but what's her opinion So I'm sure. I mean, I think she supports whichever one it is. I mean, if if I decide if we decide to pay it off, I think she's cool with that. Yeah if I had if I didn had to ask her right now, I think she would want us to pay it off honestly. Yeah, I find that out. I find out from her. And if she seems indifferent I would challenge her to say, no, no, no, I want you to formulate your own thought around this and I want to know what you think That's so important when it comes to your money and I would especially on something like this, I would get her opinion and make sure she has one to contribute, even though of course she does trust you. I mean, that should go without saying hundred ten percent Have you done the math on investing the payment once you pay it off Notot one hundred percent. And so I'm currently working with a couple of trusted financial advisors to kind of run the exact numbers because for me, that'll really help me kind of understand what it is, I'm really looking at to be able to make that decision. because in my head, if it's like less than half a million dollars, five hundred thousand dollars, and I don't say that like that's not a lot of money. But in thirty years, right? if that difference is about five hundred thousand dollars when we're looking at five or six million Okay, maybe it doesn't matter as much. But if it's like a million or a million and a half dollar difference, then it's like o, well, that's pretty significant And so that is one piece that I definitely have on mind to do with to, you know look at and evaluate to you know see what makes sense for me. But to answer your early question, you know my entire goal with all of this has just been to, you know leave a legacy for my family, my future family. I don't have kids yet, but you know I just wasn't raised in a household with money and I'm just trying to change my family tree and just, you know, that's my ultimate goal to answer your question about that. Well, one thing I will say, I loveved hearing your heart around that and it's no doubt about it that you're thinking about your family and thinking about what's going to be best for them. Um You don't have kids yet, but I will say this, having a paid off mortgage, we talked about this in the previous call, having a paid off mortgage and bringing kids in the family, it creates so many options for you. And I just love that conversation of it. And I mean, the other side of it is From this side of the desk, when people call in, I can tell you when tough times come in life, whether it's a job loss or a diagnosis or just things in life not going the way that we planned, the number one thing that people want to protect is their home They don't want to lose their mortgage. They want to make sure that everything is okay because Your home is your safe place, right? Like that is the ultimate place that you want to find You know, shelter and security and comfort. And so from that point of view, that's why I always lean towards if people can make the choice that's going to protect that, ultimately it's going to give them the most peace. And if you're doing and making decisions from a place of peace and freedom and options, then you are going to make the best choice. So that's kind of where I'd leave it. I think you're a really smart guy I think whatever you do, you're going to do it in a really methodical and intentional way. So I'm really not worried about you, Christopher. Yeah, there's Nothing on fire here, but here's how I look at it. Do you want to spend the rest of, you know the next twenty forty years making the payment, trying to get the spread, checking the accounts, or do you want to spend it just living your life and you do what you want with that payment. Maybe you invest a bunch of it, maybe you give some of it, Maybe you invest for your kids with that mortgage payment. I don't know. But there's so many things you can do and I don't want you get too shortighted going, well, life is about the spread. life is about investing because we didn't buy a house to leverage it. You just sort of this fell in your lap, this amazing once in a generation interest rate. And you're right that everyone around you is telling you, dude, that would be so dumb if you paid that off bro. That's you can make so much money. And again, we don't buy this home to make money. You make money from your job. You make money from investing. We don't need to do it based on a spread. So It's up to you. I'll tell you, I did it. I've never once calculated how much I could have made if I didn't pay off the mortgage because I simply don't care I got a toddler, an infant, a crippled dog. I got too much to worry about versus a spread. So I think you'll make the right decision that's right for your family. And again, you've got the option to always pay it off. I just don't want you to be losing sleep at night over this decision. It's simply not worth it. And I will say George just said something so true You can pay it off. And if you don't like it, you can borrow the money back. It'll be at a higher interest rate than Jade. That's It's going to be a six percent That's true. That's going to crush him. be And what's cool Christopher is one hundred percent equity, the next home you buy, which Everyone's like, it's my forever home. You'll likely buy another home in your lifetime, right? Now you have all that equity to roll into the next one and then you'll likely be a paying cash That's what happened to us paid off the mortgage, stayed the house, sold the house, saved up along the way because we could because we didn't have a mortgage payment. And then all of a sudden, you're like, sweet, I just bought house in cash. This is crazy. And you know, there's a mental component to that that I really like because a guy like you, Christopher, let's pretend You did what you're thinking and you put the two hundred thousand and you know, you invested it. A guy like you is not going like the feeling of pulling from that nest egg to buy something in cash. But when it's already, the equity is already in your home and it's kind of like earmarked for living, it's going to feel a lot easier for you to take that money and roll it into your next cash home purchase. So that is a really good point that George made. Life full of Uncontrollables and paying off that house is a forced savings plan. And I love that. It gives me a whole lot of peace and I think you'll find the same Christopher Hey, George Camll here. Listen, if you've had your phone two or three years, your phone can now be unlocked. That means you can switch to BoostMobile, to get unlocked, bring your own device, and keep more of your money where it belongs. Look, the fat cats are big wireless. they are counting on you, just staying put and overpaying every single month. They want you to think switching is complicated, risky or just not worth it. Meanwhile, your bill keeps climbing like it's trinading for a triathlon. Boost mobile makes switching simple and way less spendy. You bring your phone, keep your number, and get unlimited wireless for just twenty five dollars a month. Yeah, twenty five bucks a month, not for six months, not for a promotional period forever And there's no contract, no hidden fees, and no, we changed your plan because we felt like it, email. So if you're tired of overpaying for something you already own, this is your moment to save money. Go to boostmobile. com slash Ramseay and get unlocked today. That's boostmobile dot com slash Ramsey. twenty five dollars forever requires customers to remain active on BoostMobile and limited plan Welcome back to the Ramsay S show in the Fairwinds Credit union stududio. I'm George here with Jade Warshaw. The number to call is tri hundred eight eight two five five, two two five. Melanie is in Philadelphia up next. What's going on, Melanie Hey, how are you guys doing? Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. Yeah, so first of all, George, I love you, but this question is from my sister from another mister. I. I appreciate that. I'm gonna sit this one out. Yeah. Yeah. I think just sit back on this one for me. So I got a hair and budget question for my girl Jade. All right. womoman of color here, you know how we feel about our crown? I do. And you know, I'm in baby set two with my husband. We have a loted it to pay offff We've paid a lot, but you know, we still got a little ways to go. How much. We spent so we have paid off ninety two thousand of two hundred fifty eight. Nice. Okay. So we're getting there, but recently I had hair down on my waist, cut it down in a short pixie cut and now it requires a lot more maintenance than what I'm used to. Okay And I'm gonna to add nails in there too. So between hair and nails is anywhere between two to three hundred hours a month, whichich to me seems Kind of a lot, but did you put that on pause when you were doing your babys set too sometometimes I feel guilty that I'm spending this kind of money on my hair and nails. and I just don't know I should scale back, if it's something I can continue to do We also have about another fourteen months or so before we finish paying off the rest of the debt mon What's your gu? about fourteen, fifteen minutes. So we make up we take home about eleven a month Okay That's good Um Okay, you take home eleven a month. U I can tell you what I did did not get my hair done regularly. I learned to do it myself and In order to do that, I changed the way that I was styling my hair And I did that because I was like, Hey, can't I can't be going to get a silk press. I can't be going to do all this stuff all the time. It's expensive. And to your point, yeah, you could easily spend two to three hundred dollars. Same thing with nails. I saved it for special occasions. I was a performer So there were certain things that I did have to do for my job. And so it was a little bit different. you know, if you're going to go on stage, you have to come on stage. And so I did there were certain things ye, I invested. I had a lot of wigs, I had a lot of, you know, nails and things like that. But when I knew that I wasn't on stage and that that wasn't required, I did not spend the money on it Okay And it was a I will say it was a very tough sacrifice to make. It was an extremely tough sacrifice to make. But I think if you can find a way, I think For you, it sounds like you almost did the opposite. You're like, manan, I cut my hair in a style that requires more maintenance. That may have been a mist Exactly what happened. mistake. I love it and regret it at the same exact time. Yeah Listen, start growing it out and see if you can pivot into some other things. If you need it, I mean, you got to go to work looking nice. I understand that. you know exact There's a standard. mean it's just for somebody else that could be a man who has to wear a suit and tie to go to work every day, right? So each of us have the things that we require to be able to show up in the spaces in the way that we need to show up. So I think that you can use your best judgment to determine what that level is because we all need grooming and that is just part of life. Now three hundred dollars feels a little steep. if you can say, hey, I'm going to do the hair, but the nails, honestly, the nails are not a requirement. And would leave I would probably leave it at that. Nails certainly not a requirement, especially the articles I've been reading today, George, and I think you should jump in because you do have natural nails. that natural nails are the way to go now I've been told our naturale is in. So I'm finally on train for once But I do like what Jake' saying and Melanie, I'll just jump in with this. I think it's less about the financial aspect and the mathematics becausecause mathematically, it's not making that big of a dent in your income or your debt. If you took a hundred bucks and threw it at the debt every month out of the one hundred sixty six thousand, it's not gonna speed up your debt payoff that much, But what it does is it changes your spirit, your intensity It is the I remember having to sacrifice that much to get out of debt. and therefore I never want to go back And so I think it's more about that line in the sand than it is. Well, if we crunch the numbers, we can get of half a week faster. Yeah. I don't think that's the exciting part here. I think the exciting part is it's a new identity for you guys to say, we're people who don't borrow money and we climb out of this huge mess and never again is that going to happen? because Mama likes her nails done. Yeah. George makes a good point. Yeah, because I feel guilty almost about it. Like every time I go in, I'm like, shouldhould I really be spending this? And then I also have a six year old daughter. sometometimes she requires to go too. So then you're talking up in the three, fifties, and fours for the both of us. Yeah. And it's just like, phf, I can't keep doing this. I would cut out the nails keep the hair and even maybe change what you're having done when you get there. And I think that that will go a very long way. And to George's point just to add on that Yes, I think when you're getting out of debt and this is not just for you, this is for anybody listening. Whenever you're getting out of debt, You have to be careful with exceptions because to Georgeia's point, you're turning into a different person and you've got to be very careful about where you draw that line in the sand because if you say, oh, well this this can kind of slide under the fence and get over on the other side. and then you'll start before you know it, you're letting a lot of other things in and before you know it, you're not making as many Concessions and sacrifices as you wanted to, you're like, oh man, I'm not as intense as I thought I was onn the way to get the hair done, you're stopping on the drive through, and then all of a sudden you're on a shopping spree and it just feels like there's a domino effect that to happen. I'm going I've cut out so many of those bad habits and I'm like, okay, we're on the right track here and I just kind of feel like I don't want to go back, but and the guilt I guilt every time I'm there. Okay. Iang. I'm going to send you what no one tells you about money because I talk about all this in the book, all of it. The guilt, the feeling of like, I thought I was going ham and then I looked up and I realized I'm not going as strong as I thought. And then you know, you go up to the next level. and then after a while, you go, you know what I think I'm not doing as much as I can be. and then you go up to the next level So I'm going to send you that I think it's really going to help you. I enjoyed this conversation, George. It was a lot of fun. Thank you so much for guys. You're doing so good. talking to me. love you guys You're crushing it Yes, the guilt part is interesting, Jade, because there is a level of shame and guilt around money, especially when it relates to I shouldn't have done that. Yeah. I'm so stupid. You always do that. And you start to talk to yourself in a way that you wouldn't talk to anyone you love. No, and you shouldn't do that. You know, I think we I think we have to be careful because, you know, we've all done things like that early layer of like buyer's remorse when you're like, why did I buy that? And you know you can't really go back and change it, but you want to learn your lesson from it. And it kind of feels like she's there. She's coming home and going, gosh, why did I do that? but's ready to learn the lesson of. I think I just need to pull back or not keep doing that thing that I feel remorseful for. I think when you feel that, that's like just the right amount of, it's like touching the hot stove and you're like, ooh, I felt that for a reason. let me divert, let me change my habit here Listen to the sting. Yes, but I don't want I don't want guil to be in the driver's seat. I want to be focused on the future and the vision that you have for that person you want to be, the goals that you have. And then the byproduct of that is, all right, I'm going to cut this out. Yeah. and let's, you know, there are things that are necessary in your budget and certain things that might be necessary in somebody else's budget may not be necessary in another person's budget. And we're not here to police anybody or make them feel bad. We're here. rememember when we were kids And in school you would do things and it's like on your honor. you' like, okay, it's on your honor. And it's like, yeah, you know, you feel good about that This is on your honor. L leararn to trust yourself. Trust yourself. We believe that you're looking at your budget and you are a responsible adult who will look and say, this is necessary and this part absolutely is not And I'm gonna cut it because I know that it's not. One day there's gonna be a five hundred dollars line item for Melanie, just for her. Just for her One day. If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I recommend Netuite. Next week is the number one AI cloud ERP and more than forty three thousand businesses run on it, including us here at Ramseay Solutions. Their AI isn't bolted on, it's built in and it connects everything that runs your business. accccounting, inventory, customer data All in one place. Because when your numbers are connected, AI actually works like it's supposed to. NetSuite's AI helps flag cash flow problems, spot inventory issues, close your books faster and cut down on manual reporting. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netssuite dot com slash Ramsey for a free product tour. That's netssuite dot com slash Ramsey Sarah is in DC up next. What's going on, Sarah? How can we help today Hi, thank you for having me. My question is should I follow the next baby step, my baby step number four I have I'm forty three years old and I do not have any retirement at all I'm a single mom now and I make twenty eight thousand five hundred a month or a year. But I also get child support and alimony for fifty eight thousand a year That's going to dwindle down when my son breaches um college basically And he's thirteen years old right now. And I just don't know since where I'm at in my life at forty three if I should increase that retirement since I have none of that I was married for nineteen years and so we saved in his accounts and basically I got the house and he got the retirement and right now I'm living in a town home and I make I owe two hundred thirty thousand on that When When your son is eighteen, how much will the alimony dwindell down to in the child support If he continue if he continues to go to college, it will stay till he finishes college So that would be great for him to keep that. But it will go down twelve thousand a year. twelve thousand a year until it's gone Right. Okay Okay. what are you doing for work making twenty eight thousand five hundred I just got a job as a library assistant at a high school. So I've been a stay at home mom And, you know, after nineteen years, I guess we you know, he wanted a divorce. And so U we were doing the baby steps and we had a lot invested. but He kind of received that and I had to sell our home and that's how I moved into the town home Okay So I don't have a lot of money right now And I was thinking about getting a second job as well, you know, to increase my funds. I do have a master's degree about around here right now it's like That's a dim a dozen like what was your master's? Kind of hard to find it. human services Okay, so if I had a magic wand, what work would you be doing today? What job? Oh, I'd love to work for like I would love to work like as a social worker or something like that I've tried to get a job with the Department of Social Services, but that didn't work out you know, they didn't hire me. so I'm just trying to get my land my someomewhere stability and then you know, I thought about just getting another job to you know, They at least one bed of retirement. I do not have any retirement. So let me go back to that for a minute. Let me go back to that your initial question. You've got the twenty eight thousandll, but you're getting another fifty eight thousand a year in alimony. I wantan to make sure I understood that correct. With child W child W child support Cation. Are you I mean, I don't know any restrictions around that. Are you I mean, that's income for you. Are you able to invest off of that? like it's normal income or are there any restrictions? Correct So there's no restriction. Okay. I can choose. So what I'm hearing is you at least have anywhere between five to nine years, right? Your son's thirteen to be investing fifteen percent of your se you know, eighty six thousand dollars income. I'll crunch the numbers here. That's a thousand seventy five a month. okay So if you're doing that and you, you know, have a rate of return that we would suggest, just at that number You know, now until let's say, what did you say George? age, what I mean, it depends on where we go to. I mean if you go to sixty five, let's say, that's over a million bucks And that's assuming that as the starts to dwindle, you're also getting your your core income up. So the idea is you've got plenty of time and plenty of runway that as that starts to dwindle down, your own income is coming up to meet it and possibly exceed it. exceed the eighty six thousand. And I see and hear no reason why that can't be the case. But to answer your initial question, yes, you need to be investing right now. If you are on baby step four, yeah, you need to be investing fifteen percent of this eighty six thousand to ourur point, it's one thousand seventy five dollars a month Um nothing should stop that. And then what do I do about Mar's Fund? Be I don't know how much Re I invest in his future. Y. I mean, we're getting child support. so I'd love to put some of that money towards that. Yeah But I'm not sure like how much I actually should or not. Yeah. so where you're in, you're in baby step four, but it's actually baby step four, five, and six that you do simultaneously. So you've got to do that fifteen percent. and then because you've got children, now you've got to invest some amount of money and a five twenty nine is what I would suggest. And the way to find that number is really to think, okay U we could do some calculations to see, okay, in my area, what are the state schools cost? What are the community colleges cost? And really, how much do you have in your budget that you can even put towards this? Because ideally, you would be putting a little bit of money there and putting a little bit of money extra this on this mortgage if you can. So for example, it could be a thousand bucks for investing, That's your fifteen percent, maybe five hundred bucks a month for the five do twenty nine c for college, another five hundred bucks for the mortgage So that's two grand out of the take home pay. We're going to apply to those steps W. But you don't have any obligation to cover all of college. No. That's a luxury, It's a privilege. It's an awesome thing to do. But I don't want you to feel like a bad parent, a bad mom. if you can't fully cover any school they want to go to. That's also a ridiculous you know assumption. So I want to free you of this, Sarah. I can the guilt and the shame and the hurt is D dripping off of you right now. And I just want to free you from that and tell you it's okay to heal. It's okay to grieve. It's okay to have a season where you're not making a whole lot of progress financially because we need Sarah to get well before her financial future can become well. And what you can do, Sarah, George is absolutely right. There is no obligation because some plenty of parents don't have the margin to pay for college But what you can do, and honestly, what in many ways, I think is even more valuable is to simply start having the conversation and set expectations with your boy and say, hey,, you've seen what's going on. What I need from you is when it's time to come when it's time to start talking about college, we're doing scholarships, okay? We're doing state schools, we're doing community college You'll work, I'll work, we're going to cashflow this thing because you are not going to go in debt. I can promise you that. And if you can set that standard and then everything that you save is just a cherry on top of that, that is such a win, Sarah Mm. I agree. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. We're rooting for you. Just know, it's not too late And so all. I think you you're starting to believe Y own lives because of the brokenness that you're sitting in right now with the divorce and the rejection from these jobs that is your dream job. There's just a lot of hurt all around you right now. and I want you to know that at forty three, you got a whole second or third half. man to fight this battle and live a whole new life. And so the dream doesn't need to die just because you had some serious life events beat you down for a little bit Take the time to get well, take the time to get that core income up, and you will find that job one day. I believe even if it takes getting licenseed to become a social worker, you will create that margin over time if you follow these steps. A lot of women don't hit their like their good stride until their late forties and fifties. Yeah. And it's your best earning years anyway. Y. Yep. Kelly's over here, notot in and Kelly Daniels. Absolutely Kelly, she is in her stride. She is crushing it. She's that girl. it. So it's not too late. I know it feels like the best years are behind me. and man, that chapter of my life is over and now I'm just gonna do this fourteen dollarars an hour job and let it run. It's not done. You're worth more than that. So we are absolutely rooting for you. And that goes for anyone out there who feels like it's too late. Because guess what? everyveryone feels like they're behind The twenty four year old is going to call in and say, I feel like I'm behind because I saw it take the thirty four year old is going, I know I should be doing better than I am. The forty four year old also feels like I wish I knew this stuff earlier. I made some mistakes. And then you get the people in their fifties and sixties. It's because we do too much comparison, George. We're looking at everybody else and thinking and measuring ourselves up to them. You can't do that.ind not Yeah, it's just your race. It's your run. it's your stride, it's your pace. You don't need to look, don't look to the left or to the right. Yeah, I'm not racing Jade. I can't keep up. So I put the blinders on and I run my little five K and she's doing her Ironman. That's okay. We all got to live our truth. Hey, George Campbell here. A few years ago, someone stole my identity. And let me tell you, that is not a quick fix. It takes hours on the phone, piles of paperwork, and a whole lot of stress trying to untangle the mess. And even after that, there's this nagging paranoia because your information is already out there. And the truth is, you can do all the right things and still become a victim That's how common identity theft is. And that's why I'm glad I had Xander's identity theft protection When my identity was stolen, their team stepped in right away. They were monitoring my information and caught the issue, and their US based recovery specialists help handle the calls, the paperwork, the cleanup, so I didn't have to do it all on my own ZXandra also includes up to two million dollars in stolen funds and expense reimbursement. and with the family plan, your kids are covered for free You work too hard to let identity theft steal your time, your money, and your peace of mind. So go to zander. com to enroll today or call eight hundred three five six forty two eighty two Ask Ramsay is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsy principles and today we're gonna to break down one of the top questions of the week. The main question, why does Ramsseay recommend only investing fifteen percent? Only I love it. That's a pretty good number if you. That's a great. What's funny is like the entire financial planning community, as much as they can disagree with Dave on everyone's like, Yeah, fifteen percent is a great number to hit. It's a great number considering most people are only at their match, right? three or four percent. anyyway. fifteen percent guys is enough to build real wealth without sacrificing everything else in your life. Fire, you know, those movements, people are investing thirty, forty percent of their income cost and how long can you really eep that going, I see a lot of people burn out and that. There's a time in place to increase investing. so it's not only investing fifteen percent your whole life all time. Invest fifteen percent while you save up for college for your kids, which is wildly expensive, while you try to pay off the mortgage early with extra payments, which is going to take a lot of margin. Oh, and by the way, you got to go on vacation and upgrade the cars Yeah to cover the kids generosities, activities and give. And so there's so much more to life than just investing. And I think fifteen percent is a good parameter to make sure you don't lose your mind along the way. Absolutely. yeah. It's a great number. It makes sure that you can do those goals that are really important, like George said. And if you invested only five percent to ten percent, then you'd actually be falling short of what you need for retirement. So fifteen percent really is in that sweet spot of being able to accomplish your goals and also being able to have just enough and more for retirement A few key things to know about the fifteen percent, George, this is based on your gross household income. I cannot say that enough. So if you say I make one hundred thousand dollars a year before taxes That's the number hundred thousand grand a year better be invested. And then your employer match doesn't count toward the fifteen percent. We get that one a lot. Well, my employer match is five percent, so I'm gonna to invest ten percent. Cerry on top. It's fifteen percent of your money regardless of what's going on with your employer because your employer can change and you want to have that habit built up in the budget of being able to live off of fifteen percent less in your take home pay. So that's important. And then the order's pretty simple. four hundred one K up to the match if you have one, then move to any Roth options you have, like a Roth IRA, max that out if that's still in the fifteen percent. And if you still haven't hit the fifteen percent threshold, go back to the traditional four hundred one K for the rest. Yeah. I love that. And remember guys, the goal, we don't want you to just retire We want you to retire with dignity. We want you to have freedom. And this word again, it keeps ringing in options. Options is what you want. and I promise you, fifteen percent is what's going get you there So if you want to crunch some numbers, ask Ramsy can help you determine what is fifteen percent of your gross household income so that you're on track for retirement. Go ask all of your questions today at Ramsyslutions dot com or just click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube Sarah is in Charlotte up next, Sarah, welcome to the show What's going on So my husband and I love our jobs. We make about seven thousand dollars or we bring home about seven thousand dollars a month. An Aard leftess us with twin boys and we are struggling with the cost of childcare Yeah. Oh yeah, because that's what it was three thousand bucks a month It is three thousand four hundred and ninety dollars in our current center, which we cannot afford at seven thousand dollars a month. So we're looking at other options And the choices are between three thousand twenty six dollars for both kids or one thousand two hundred dollars for both kids. The mom heart of me is struggling with the lower amount because of the quality that I're losing with that. Absolutely. When you said twelve hundredd hundred hour was like, what does that place look like U Yeah ye, George has kids. I've had littleles and we know those numbers that you quoted are really right on. And how old are your twins? They're fifteen months old right now. They're still young. Yeah, because the younger the baby, the more, you know care and, the more expensive it is. So you're right in the thick of it. Of the seven thousand a month How much of that is your income So we make seven thousand dollars a month, but minus our fixed brings us to twenty eight hundred eighty nine dollars. So that's minus our mortgage, which is a little less than twenty five percent and our utilities and groceries and stuff I'm confused. So what portion is your what do you take home versus your husband? Okay, my take home is three thousand three hundred and he brings home about three thousand six hundred. Okay. So it's pretty much a wash If you stay at home. You're losing that three thousand three hundred. Could you live off of his income? Is that a preferable experience or do you want to keep working I want to keep working. I'm a kindergarten teacher and it's my dream job. so I would not consider that. Now what about family? Do we have any options in the area that we can kind of offset this and pay someone, but not maybe pay them what we'd be paying a daycare? My mother in law can watch them one day a week, but she can't do any more than that. and we don't have any other options Other than that. Do you have a church community We don't have the option to like have a babysitter or anyone else at a lower rate. The lower rate would be the tw hundred dollars a month, like church option, that is a church. That is a church. Okay The reason I was asking is sometimes, I mean, we had a lady call in earlier that she would be a prime candidate to help with children. So a lot of times you can find people in your community who they're looking for the extra work, they're looking for something full time that you can bring into the house, right? and get the same level of care but it's in your home and at least you're not having to pay, you know the same premium here. So you guys are up against it. I would also look into maybe some nanny share programs that might actually be cheaper in your case with the twins. So I would just do all of the homework you can and then make the best decision with the information you have and with the values that your family has. And that might lead you down the path where you go, All right, we got to pay us three thousand four hundredll a month because this is what we value and that means sacrifice in all the other areas to make that work. Or it might mean and I'm not saying it has to be you. I'm only saying this based on the incomes. It also could be that the person with the lower income stays home and does part time work So you're getting the value of bringing in some income, but you're also not having to pay the full You know, the three thousand four hundred dollars or the thirty, you know, the three thousand dollars every month And that I kind of don't mind that because Although you wouldn't be in your dream job for the moment, you can always go back when they get a little bit older when they get kindergarten age and they're able to go off to school and maybe you be their kindergart teacher. And this might put a fire under you guys to go, okay, how do we get our core incomes up? So what does your husband do for work I his accounting degree. Acounting degree Do he doing accounting Okay. personing, bookkeeping. it's kind of a urchas He does all kinds of stuff. Yeah, you can make six figures in that role. So what does the sort of ladder look like in his company that he's in or in his role that he's in to go, Okaykay, here's the next step up. Here's what it's going to take for me to be senior accountant. Does it need a certification? Do I need to really prove that I'm bring so much value to this organization that I deserve to be paid more. So I'd start looking into those things too because if he can double his income, we' just solved the problem, right And that's easier said than done. But if he can go from making fifty or sixty k to one hundred K Well, now the daycare becomes a much smaller portion of your life. You still have margin left over. That's what we're really worried about is can we still live our life? Can we still do the baby steps if half of our take home pay is gone day one. paycheck comes in. How old are you guys?? I'm twenty seven, he's thirty. Okay, And how long has he been at this in this particular role at this particular company two years, I think. Okay. Yeah, I agree with what George said. and I would start looking out there and seeing are there other opportunities with his degree that he can be making more money. And if it requires you guys to know go to another area, I think that's fully worth it for you guys to get more income into the mix Okay Thank you guys for your advice. Absolutely. I feel for you, Sarah, that everyone out there who's paying a daycare bill right now is like, yes and am.. And I mean, when you know how it feels, when you find out you're having babies, you're like you're already like clutching your pearls. And then if you find out you have twins, like that is a whole different That'll change your worldall game. That's a whole different ball game. It'll be fun down the road but right now it's just like Yeah how we going to do this this month? And so it's going to be, you know, could be three, four five years of some of deeper sacrifice. but it's a season. dayaycare' not forever. That's right. And then know, hopefully they'll be in public school fingers crossed instead of turning that into another private school bill. That people do it It hurts my soul, but people do it. One of our favorite things is when people share their stories of how they're winning with money and we got this awesome review for our every dollar budgeting app. Just being able to use every dollar and see all the extra we had every single month was super motivating. We'd have thousands of dollars extra and just throw it on the mortgage That is incredible. That's amazing. And you can do this too. I mean, the numbers may look different, but the peace and control you feel will be the same. You can take control of your money, you can live like no one else. Start every dollar for free today in the App Store or Google Play Melissa is up next in Chattanooga. What's going on, Melissa Hi, I am just recently listening to y'all and trying to make sense of the baby steps for my situation. We owe approximately thirty thousand dollars on our house and have. Ab sixty five thousand dollars in other debt Would it make more sense for us to just pay off our house and then start paying on the rest of the debt No, but let's explain why. Do you have a chunk of cash that you're sitting on No. Okay. really. So you're just thinking, okay, we need to start making extra payments somewhere. Where do we start? Okay you broke up on I speak directly to your phone. Sorry.. So we've been making extra payments on our house for a little bit. But then I started listening to y'all and it was like, we'll pay off all the consumer debt But then if we pay off our house, then they can't take it away from us. So that seems Like, you know, like that's the thing that would give us security and we could It would be ours then. Does that make sense? Yeah. I like the way you're thinking. I think your mind is going in the direction where we want it to go, which is you want peace and you want freedom Am I right Yes. Okay. So let's talk about the best way to achieve that. because we want that too. I mean, that's what the show is all about is about helping people build wealth so that ultimately they have financial peace, ultimately they have options, ultimately, they feel a sense of freedom with their money. And so what we found is the best way to get there is a series of seven baby steps. Are you familiar with them Okay So for those who aren't familiar, the very first baby step is to get a thousand dollars saved. And that's just so that you can have a cushion between you and life. You don't have to rely on credit cards if something pops up. Do you have one thousand dollars saved Yes.m I think you said yes, Melissa. That's great. I did. Do you have more than a one thousand dollars saved Yeah. How much Probably around ten thousand. Okay So you've got ten thousand dollars saved So keep that to the side. The next step is, yeah, just like you said, we suggest paying off all of your consumer debt. That's everything except the house And the reason that we do it that way is because we're building a foundation here, and we've got to clean up our mess before we start building wealth So what you're talking about, paying off the house, that's a wealth building practice and we're not quite there yet. We got to clean up the mess first. and by doing that It gives us more of our hard earned money back into our pockets All right, the biggest wealth building tool that you have is your income, the money that you make every single month And as long as it's going out in debt payments, you don't have that money at your full disposal to really do what it is that you need to do So by paying off our consumer debt, not only do we keep that risk out of our life, but now we're getting back our tools. We're getting back the tools it takes to build wealth So we would say, yes, now let's pay off the debt. You've got sixty five thousand dollars in consumer debt. So if you were to take nine thousand of the ten thousand that you have saved and put that towards the debt. We keep the thousand dollars, obviously as baby step one. That's going to give you a quick kind of leg up on this debt. and now're now we're ready to roll. You know, we got fifty six thousand. let's start paying it off And let's do it smallest to largest. That's called the debt snowball. List them out by balance, smallest to largest, and we'll help you do that. And then we're going to attack the smallest debt with all of the margin that's left, any extra money. So tell us about the sixty five thousand that you have, what kind of debts are they and how much are they So it's really just two categories. It's about three thousand dollars on credit cards and the rest of it's student loans And are those student loans split up amongst ten or eleven different little loans wo, just two different loans. two. Okay. What's the biggest one? What's the smallest? One's like twenty something and the other one's thirty something. Okay V veryy close together. Yeah, those student loans scare me so much more than the mortgage does. The mortgage is in is tied to the asset of the home. that's going up in value. These student loans have no real value in the real world and they're not going anywhere. you can't even bankrupt on student loans and they're likely at a much higher interest rate than your home Yes So let's knock those out. I know you want to get the mortgage knocked out. The good news is when you knock out a thirty K student loan and there's less than thirty k K left on the mortgage, you're just going to keep plowing right on through and get rid of that mortgage too. Yeah. It's going to feel easy after that. What's your income? What do you guys take home every month You probably eleven thousand a month. Exllly. That's fantastic. you're gonna to knock these debts out fast if you guys get intense. Yeah, do you have a budget U I've I tried to create one which brought this question up. Okay, Where did you try to create one? Tell us about that Well, I was I downloaded the free version of the every dollar app and it was like, well, start paying off the student loans. And I was like, that doesn't make any sense to me. That's when you called in. Okay. Got it. Okay.a can I ask about this mortgage? How is it so low? Be well, because everybody says you should pay extra on your mortgage. So since we bought the house, we've been paying extra on the mortgage This is let everything That's amazing. That is amazing. Well usually when' a mortgage that low, it's like a double wide situation and it's going down in value. So that was my fear That's great to know. So you guys are going to be in baby step seven in no time. If I were you, I would just keep on going. Same intensity and just be done with this whole thing. And then you're making eleven thousand dollars with no payments in the world Tonight with your with your spouse, add up all of your payments you're making with the mortgage and go, that's going to be freed up if we stay intense And you'll probably do this in twenty four months. You could probably be completely debt free, mortgage and everything Yeah. Melissa. stressful, but yes. no, it's a good thing. When you built that budget, how much margin do you guys have left? Once once you've made minimum payments, no extra payments, just minimum payments and you've kind of satisfy the things that you need, you know, for your month to month life, how much margin do you have There was probably four or five thousand dollars a month hour Oh yeah, that's exactly two years. ninety five thousand dollars And that's four grand a month you're done in less than two years That was everything. Yeah And fantastic. Th to continue on, so now you've accomplished Baby step two, and you've kind of jumped ahead, but after that, you can save three to six months of expenses and that's going to make sure that that's like insurance. It makes sure you never have to go back into debt again. You never have to scan a credit card again. You never have to pull out, you a four hundred one K loan, not that you were doing that, but people do that kind of business. And so it's giving you insurance on your debt freedom When you save up that three to six months of expenses, and then from there, now we're really digging into building wealth. We talked about it earlier, but you'll be investing fifteen percent of your gross income every single month. And you can do that simultaneously alongside baby steps five and six. Baby step five is you can put away for your kids college into a five hundred twenty nine. You could do an ESA, but I love a five twenty nine And you're putting extra on the mortgage, which you don't need to do because yours is gonna be done, son. And then after that, mayaby step seven, living like no one else. Just build wealth. It's a choose your own adventure at that point. Looks different for everyone. But I love this picture for everyone listening out there. Imagine your life with no payments and not just imagine, add it up adddd up all the payments in your life you're making to the lenders, the mortgage company, the student loan companies and go, what if that was in my bank account every month instead? Whatould I do? what could I do And it all comes back to those options we've been talking about. I mean, it's just so freeing to go All of my hard earned income is for me. And if you do the math on a calendar, you'd be shocked about how many days you're working for somebody else. Yes. If a third of your take on pay is going to lenders a third of your month working is going to lenders. Yes. So imagine the first nine days you go to work. You don't for somebody else. Oh, I don't Yeah. Sally May's putting you to work Now let let's park back on what she said, Melissa, because the truth is when you do start to lay out your debts, when you look at the baby steps for the first time, you look at it and you go, oh, great a plan. And then when you start diging into it, you go, ooh, that's daunting. There's a lot of work I said twenty four months, she said, Oh, that sounds stressful. Yeah. I went Most people are gonna live the next twenty four years in stress and mediocrity Yeah. So I'll take twenty four months of sacrifice for the next twenty four years of freedom. Absolutely. That's a worthy trade offff. Yeah, you gotta look at what's at stake. If you do nothing Where will your life? where will your life be in five years? But if you do something today and you start doing the things that we teach, in five years, you're not even gonna recognize your old life. It's that old igz little quote, You aim at nothing, you'll hit it every time So let's aim in the right direction to the Ramsay S showow and the Fairwins Credit Union stududio Brittneany is up next in Las Vegas. Britany, how can we help you today Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. What's your question Okaykay, what are your thoughts on using surrogacy as a way to speed up the baby steps Wow. I mean, we talk about gazzell intensity and sacrifice. That's about the biggest sacrifice you could make renting out your body Wait a minute, hold on. let me, let me make sure I understand Are you saying 'a there's two ways you can hear this Are you saying that You don't want to carry the baby so you can keep working and stuff or are you saying I'll carry someone else's baby to make money I would carry someone else's baby to make the income. Gotch you. Where'd you get this idea? Is it something that's been on your mind for a while or was it like a friend told you about it Well, my sister does it, but it's also my husband's working day and night right now, eighty hours a week, trying to pay off our debt. So As a thought to try to get him home back with us with our kids sooner, that, you know, pregnancy was kind of easier for me, that it could be something that I could potentially do. I can't think of any world where pregnancy is easier than anything. Listen, some women some women, they really enjoy it Their bodies don't seem to mind it. I don't know. Pop them out.. Have you had a baby before Yes, I've had three. Oh okay. How old are you? Old hat for you Yeah Yeah, twenty nine . And how much debt are we talking about? I need to see how desperate we're getting because this is getting to some desperate measures We're sixty six thousand in consumer debt And what's the household income currently And so With his second job, and then I work full time from home, watching with the kids we're at eleven thousand. It was a greatome. So you have a great income. I mean, we can knock this debt out pretty fast We're talking less than eighteen months So the question is, do you want to spend nine of those pregnant Hoping, I mean, that's like this is all things go perfectly to get rid of the debt a little bit faster. because eighteen months, that's square in the average it takes for people to get out of consumer debt following our plan, eighteen to twenty four months Da Lonner is it would also help us fund baby step three Let let me let me get away from the numbers for a minute U Were you planning on having any more of your own children No, we're done. Okay Um Are there what what would you I said I was going to get away from the numbers, but what would you earn for doing this? just so we can understand Yeah, starting cost is about a starting pay is about sixty five thousand for a first time surrogate. sixty five thousand Okay, heres I'm to just tell you some of the things that are floating around in my mind. You've had way more time to noodle this around. I've heard it for ninety seconds So first thing I'm thinking is you got younger kids in the house. You're going to have to explain this Y to them. And there's going to be attachment whether you want it or not. There's going to be attachment for you and there's going to be attachment for your kids becausecause they knew that they grew in mama's belly And then they're seeing somebody else grow in mama's belly I'm wondering that's going to feel for them. So there's an impact here that goes beyond you and your body. And I just want to make sure that we're thinking well through that because there's nothing dire in your situation that I think that we're to that level. Y matter of fact, your numbers are very similar to the folk the person that called in earlier. they had six, you know, made eleven thousand. had sixty five in consumer debt. And so and I wasn't like, you know what? you should do surrogacy. So I don't want you to feel that you're in a desperate situation that you need to do something desperate. That's thing one. Now, thing two is If you had said to me And maybe this is true and we just didn't start here. If you had said to me, you know what, Jade and George I'm thinking about the mininistry of surrogacy because I really have a heart for moms who can't carry their children and that's something that's really important to me. And I think I can help because I actually love being pregnant Then now we're having a conversation Those are the those are the two biggest things that I think we need to talk through beyond the numbers first So where do you fall? And you can be totally honest with us. You can't hurt our. We're not judging.'re just Chopping it up Yeah, no, I think it's about, I mean, fifty fifty. I mean, the idea of being able to help them on At the same time, I see how hard my husband works and him sleeping only in between shifts because he's working eighty hours a week and just sleeping anytime he has the chance to that's I feel like he's missing or ood. Okay, so let's stop there. that's your driver I think your bigger driver is G your husband the rest he needs and you be feeling some level of guilt or whatever for what he's having to go through. I actually it sounds like I could be wrong. It sounds like that's a bigger driver than what I'm going to call the Ministry of sururrogacy. Is that fair? Yeah, I would say that's fair. Okay. So let's solve that problem. Let's solve her husband first And then let's see if all dials point to surrogacy. I have a feeling that they're not But let let's look at other things that dad can do and getting some relief for him. How much is he working with that second job? How many hours a week forty hours a week with his main job and his second job Could he dial up the second one down or is it required to be full time? U it' It's I don't think it's required to be full time, but I he's trying he want he's same level I am of trying to pay off debt work dialed into the Ramseay method and just trying to pay off debt So he's doing the forty the full forty Okay, whereere is where does he stand on this? Is he like, hey, I'm happy to keep this going. I'm doing fine you know, Physically, I can handle this or is he like, hey, I get maybe three more months of this before I'm burnt out I would say it's about fifty, fifty, depends on the night if you ask him. I'm just wondering if we dial it back Let's say it takes you guys two years to pay off the debt instead of eighteen months., but you can survive it and avoid surrogacy as a side hustle Does that sound like a good plan That'sfair. And I love that. that's if you have no increase in income with your core full time jobs. because I'm just looking at a mom who's watching three kids working a full time job, now out a pregnancy on top of that It's going to be stressful for someone And so I'm like, can we kind of can you both carry some of the load? Maybe you work a little bit when he's home? He works a little bit, but not forty hours a week And then we have a middle ground here. Yes, And I want to say something and I think I can You know, we we love gazelle intensity. We love people to go fast and we love people to do whatever it takes But also in a debt payoff journey, mine was seven and a half, not a little you know a decent bit longer than yours. There are What I'm going to say is there's times where you're really accelerating and there's times where it's like, bro, I'm tired. I got to just pull off the gas a little bit. and that's okay. It's okay to pull off the gas a little bit. You're still going towards the goal. That could look like I've been driving Uber and I hate it. I'm just gonna to stop driving Uber as a side hustle for a while. and I'm going to give myself a month or two breather and then I'm going to pick up a different side hustle, right There are ways that the debt free journey can morph over time, whether it's speeding up or slowing down. As long as you're still going intensely towards the goal and everything that you're doing is done with intentionality, I'm intentionally taking a thirty day break. I'm intentionally now coming back and doing a different side hustle. That's totally fine. What I don't want you to do is I'm hesitant to people when they're putting their bodies on the line, when they could potentially be putting their health on the line because pregnancy, there's so many factors that can take place and you have a family of your own. and for that reason, I think I'm going to say, I don't I don't think you should do that. Unless it's a ministry. You should not feel uncertain about investing and you don't have to That's why we created investing essentials two night virtual event where George Campll and I walk you through my playbook for investing and wealth planning. We'll simplify everything from four hundred one Ks and mutual funds to passing on wealth So you can invest with confidence. Tickets start at one hundred and ninety nine doll. Get yours today at ramseysolutions dot com slash events or click the link in the show notes Our question of the day is sponsored by YRfi. If miss private student loan payments are keeping you from making progress toward your goals, YRfi may be able to help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment you can manage. Visit YireRfi dot com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y REFY dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. Ooki, Today's question comes from Alexandra in Iowa My parents surprised me with a new car for my birthday that's worth forty thousand dollars My husband and I have been paying off our debt and together, we earn about sixty thousand dollars a year We have about thirty thousand dollars in debt not including our mortgage I want to sell the new car and drive my beat up truck again Doing so would pay off the debt and give us a head start on our emergency fund. The probleroblem is, I know it would cause issues with my parents. What should we do Okay. This is a sticky one. It's a sticky one. I mean, the truth is If somebody gives you something, it's yours and it should be unattached. It should be that way Obviously, I mean, we O day you're going sell this car. O day you're going not to have it forever. And they were probably thinking in their minds They were thinking I'm going to give her a car, not I'm going to give her money to pay off her debt. That's probably what they were thinking. Well, to be fair, it's a lot more exciting to give your daughter a new car when hers is all beat up and go, w, this is fun. It's something visual. they can see, it's physical. Yes. Paying off debt is kind of intangible and less exciting from the gift giver's perspective. Yes they're not aligned with the Ramseay planl going, man, it would change their life if we paid off their debt. Instead, let's give them a depreciating asset that they have to maintain years. That's so true. And the other side of it is You have to ask yourself and'm if you're the gift giver and somebody does something with a gift that you didn't want them to do. Now you're talking about control issues because it's like, well, I want to give you the gift and I want to control how you use it and how you enjoy it So I have the right to be offended. if I give you a gift shade and you go sell it on Facebook Metplace and go get your nails done. I'm like, well do you really? I'll be offended for sure. That's a normal reaction as someone who gives a gift. Okay. because it shows that you didn't like the gift. you didn't you don't respect me. But here's the thing, let's feel ex brring the level down a little bit because we're talking about a forty thousand dollars car. Let's pretend that I bought you a forty dollar sweater and It wasn't F screen And it was what's what's the other color you like? I like all Maroon. Sure. And I accidentally bought you, I don't know, a purple sweater. Yeah. I don't do purple. And you're like I don't do purple sweatater. so you went and took it back and got something that was more valuable to you. Sure. you know, I could be a little offended like, well, but at the end of the dayamn like, well, I actually want George to have what he wants. And I assumed he wanted a purple sweater. He actually wants a green one. Well let's walk That's really what it is. Well could happen. Let's walk through the different scenarios. Scenario one, they sell the car without talking to the parents at all, and it becomes probably a blow up argument once the parents find out. Yeah. R? It's kind of behind their back, so to speak. Sure scenario two She talks to the parents and says, Hey, I'm going to do this. and here's why. And they say, we don't want you to do that And then she can then go her own way and say, Well, I'm choosing to do it, but I wanted her to be respectful and let you guys know that debt payoff is a priority And I really love the car. It's a beautiful car, but right now, that's not a priority. it would be a greater gift for us. Yes to have it. I agree. I think that the kind thing to do would be to let them know first so they don't feel side blinded. But I will stand ten toes on business and say truthfully They should not require that. I will say that Well, I mean, if they knew her situation, they know the thirty grand in debt, they know her life in their marriage, they probably should have gone like, hey, what would be the best use If we were going give them forty thousand dollars? shouldhould it be in a depreciating asset or should it be debt freedom plus an emergency fund? I'm going ding, ding ding. That one sounds a lot better. Eespecially when she's happy with her beat upp truck. Well, then, you know, it gets into the whole talk of Everybody doesn't follow our principles and they don't have to, but a lot of times people do get pushedback when they start doing this way of life because a lot of people don't understand it. Like whyy would you go through discomfort? Why would you sacrifice a forty thousand dollars car? It begs questions for a lot of people and that's okay. But the other thing I think about though is the insurance is going to be real expensive on that car. Absolutely. It probably takes premium gas if it's a forty thousand dollars car. Now they've increased their costs and their budget every month just to drive a car I don't even want to drive Again, I don't have any problem with it. Personally, I would talk to my parents. if they're level headed parents, this is you're hoping there's healthy people on all sides of this equation. Yeah Yeah, I'm hoping' pretty rare these days But you have a conversation with them and that way they they're at least not blindsided by it. They may not agree with it But it feels a little less disrespectful if you kind of bring it up. Yeah, how mad could you really be if somebody said, instead of having this car, I want to pay off debt, or I want to invest the money or I want to do something else way more financially savvy with it. How mad can you be But I mean it's pretty sweet ifift N notot gonna to lie. It is't. I'd take one. All right, Art is in Greenville, North Carolina up next. What's going on Art Hi Daden George. My wife and I are in baby step seven We have the opportunity to purchase a second home in our neighborhood with the hope that her parents and her brother would move here. Why is that a hope? They currently live three hours from us and they can't afford to move here Well we can afford to You guys want to be generous. You want to have family close by. they can' afford it. So you're going, hey, what if we bought this house and they can just move into it and they wouldn't have any payments Yeah, and they could gradually move into it. parents we're forty five years old. herer parents are both about eighty years old and her brother lives with them and the three of them have health issues. Okay. What's theouse going call? It's about four twenty five. How wealthy are you What's your net worth We have about one point five in brokerage. and about nine hundred thousand for one c Okay, and how would you pay for the house That was another a question if we should pay for it outright or ance I wouldn't really want to finance it, but is your house paid for your personal residence Yeah, our housees paid for we don't have any debt. Awcellent. So I love that. Yeah, cash would be the only way. If you're going to do this, it's a second home. We see that as sort of a luxury toy. It's not making you money. We'd never recommend going into debt. for any reason on a second home. And so if you're going to do it, it looks like you'd cash out a lot of that brokerage in order to make that happen, right Yeah, Th the biggest purchase we've made. mean It's in our neighborhoods so that it's than what we originally paid for our house. Yeah. Well and think about this, you're footing the bill for the rest of at least your parents' lives. I don't know about the sibling Are you okay with that side too I just didn't want to complicate it with If they bought it, then how would they p us back for it? And how would the wheel go? And so I thought it would be cleaner Yeah Yes.ained ownership. Yeah. Well, I'm just looking at, you know, you're going to pay the property taxes. you're going to pay the insurance. Are you going also cover utilities? Are you going to cover food? kind of where does this end Yeah, that's a good question. Do they have any income esssentially, they would pay for those or rent from us but like zero dollar rent or you know cover the utilities. They're living on retirement and social security. Okay. I'm just wondering, you got to know there could be a day where they go, hey, we can't even pay the utility bills and you're going to have to foot the bill for that and go, hey I can't pay for this. I don't want to pay for this. So if you're okay with that, I'm not I'm ever going to be against generosity. I just want to make sure we think long term about what this looks like. Obviously they're eighty. so this is not going to be for twenty five years we're doing this And it will set you guys back, quote unquote, as far as your investing goals But if this is what you want to do and you think it's going to get them to move here, obviously have a conversation with them ahead of time You know, you don't want to just hope and just buy it and go. Well, they decided they don't want to move I don't know if you know this, old people are stubborn. So they may go I don't want to move. It's a big life change. I'm happy where I'm at. Even if it's not that fancy, we're good. And then you might go, right instead of buying them a house, what if I just send them three thousand dollars a month That's an alternative just you know, I want them to be you closer to their grandkids. And if we have to take care of them, we get older, you know we would just want ' them closer. Yeah, I'd start those conversations. and if you decide, hey, this is a great move, we're happy to cover the cost. This is a value for us, then go ahead. I mean, you got that brokerage for a reason Options So way to go, man. you guys are doing great Hey guys, George Camll here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it? You run into target for one thing and somehow walk out eighty seven dollars later with toothpaste and emotional support candles? Just me, okay Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money, so it does whatever it wants. And that's why we created every dollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. Every dollar is simple, it's clear and it helps track where your money's actually going. Plus, you get daily lessons, to do's, and reminders along the way. It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give every dollar a full time job Go download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet if disaster strikes. And we've got a free insurance coverage checkup that helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. So head to ramsyslutions dot com slash checkup to take the coverage checkup and find out if you have the protection you need Tina is in Minneapolis up next Tina, what's going on Hi George I just have a question Thank you for taking my call. Sure in Hyji Hey, how are you doing? I I met you about three years ago. so I still have the picture taking my. Oh that's Yeah. So the question is should we, me my husband continue to have a joint account or not because I just discovered about three weeks ago that he has been committed financial infidelity for the last seven years. I secretly have the secret bank accounts away from the joint accounts and spend the over Cose a hundred thousand dollars. Oh Borrowing from is about fourteen K. and I didn't know it. It kind of shocking to me and that was But pretty upset of him But U He's willing to change and promise to change and willing to go to therapy to ix whatever it that's causing him to do that. What caused him to promise to change? You finding out U yeah, I discovered that the money missing fifteen thousand dollars miss in last year. So if you if you never found out, he would still be doing this He probably do until he dies. That's the part that worries me.. It's like, Well, I'm going gonna keep committing crimes until I get caught and then I'm going to promise to not commit more crimes And so correct. What did he spend all this money on? It sounds like there's Probably some addictions here. What do you think is going on?as he told you? Yeah it is He told me about the addictions U He did spend a lot of money on himself and on other women. So that's addictions. So it's not just financial infidelity, there's just straight up infidelity That's right. So I was like so cororn But he he's willing to change. and Oh we went to we were going to see merit therapy old pastw sa a pastor last week. So he's willing to change. What's his track record for change? Have you seen Have you observed in your relationship that when he says, I'm going to do something that he's good for it Have you ever observed that He said he had changed before. It took a long way for him to even joined me to have a joint account. went to DWMC program some years ago. So that's why we decided to join. And we pay all our debts off, including the house this March And he thw this weeks ago that he addicted to pornography and spend a lot of money on buying stuff Yeah Yeah. Okay. U I love that you're in counseling I sense that you have a compassion for what he's going through and you want to see it see it through to the other side. So I commend you for that. I think that you're going to have the best litmus test on if this is worth trying to save, and it sounds like in your opinion it is Yeah,' thing he's appeared to be so kind and that's like that's like it's a really good like he walk around We went to budget every month together. and he You know, I'm the one that leading, but because he doesn't like to Study's too much over money and that's my things I love to review study and learn how to do it the correct way. And okay, as long you are participating, I'll be fine. Okay. so your first question was Do I need to keep my money joined with someone who has a known addiction? And I would say no, you don't When you once you know there's an addiction and once you know that clearly there's There's no self control present in the moment when that's going on. And we've seen that to the tune of at least one hundred thousand dollars that you know about And so for that reason, I would work with the counselor on setting what those boundaries are and saying, okay, What does that look like? and what does it look like for him to then regain access to the money over time? So those are the things that you want to set up is what does it look like to separate and you have Um, Conservatorship or whatever you want to say over that money. And then what does it look like to create milestones where he can be let back into the process? If you do X for six months, then you will have access to a debit card or whatever it is. If after twelve months, here's where we'll be. And after eighteen or twenty four months, we'll consider rejoining if the track record remains So that's the thing with trust is it's easy to break and it's really hard to rebuild. And if he's really serious about this and you guys are willing to work through it with the marriage counselor and he's willing to give you full financial transparency, which is what you need starting today. Every account everyvery debt, every paycheck. No more secret. Every password. And that means he's pulling his credit report today. You guys are going to go to annualcredit report dot comot pull him from all three credit bureaus and get a full picture of what is going on with all of this debt and these accounts. And then we can make a plan to clean it up. And we're going to freeze his credit, remove access for him to spend. Youve got to add so much friction to his life to help him avoid falling back into these patterns. Yeah. and there's two there's I'm not a counselor by any means, but I will say there's marriage counseling and then he needs some separate counseling for what he's going through with the addiction. And you may need to see somebody separately as well. So there's a lot of relational and personal work that I think needs to be done here. You guys have a journey ahead of you, but you know you know about the one hundred thousand for one k loan What else is out there that you know of That's all I know Yeah. Okay. So that credit report will give you the truth. I'd pull yours as well because there's the chance he took out debt in your name without your knowledge So I would pull both of your credit reports with all three bureaus, take a good look, and then freeze both of your credit so that you can't open new accounts without going through a whole bunch of hoops That's also going to help. And then he needs to be transparent about where this money has been being spent. if it's on certain websites, we need to block that. we might need to get him a dumb phone for a while where he doesn't have access to the internet on his phone. All of those things, I know it sounds brutal. You're not here to punish him You clearly love him and you want to see this relationship heal, but you need to set up these strong boundaries to help him So I wish you the best. I mean, this is a big journey. I mean, this debt that even just one hundred K, that's setting you guys back financially by years. Yeahes. And so he's got to have way more skin in the game than you do. He's got to be willing to sell all the things he bought need to get sold and he needs to do that work He needs to feel some of the weight of this. Thank you so much, for your advice. I've been trying to talk to somebody and I've been following your advice for so long and it helps us to help me get our d and even pay the house off and so I was so excited until this hit me about three weeks ago and say o, it threw me back I can't imagine. I mean It's a long period of time to be doing this behind your back with a lot of zeros on the end. And so you have every right T be angry, to be upset. And so you don't need to sort of shove that down and go, no, it's fine. This is normal. It's not. This is a huge betrayal of trust. and it's going to take it took seven years for him to make this mess It might take seven years to climb out. Yeah. That's the hard part. Tina, call us back. if you ever need, you know, if you get to a point you're like, I don't know what to do next, give us a call back and we're happy to help you through that. But this brings up a bigger conversation and it's worth having, I think, in this moment. So when we talk about The word accountability. a lot of people don't like the word accountability because They It's synonymous with control. I don't want anybody controlling me, I'm a grown woman. I'm a grown man, I don't need anybody looking shoulder. R I love the word transparency because then it's just like it just helps you see. it's like it's a clear. you can pass through, you can see through it. There's no veil, there's no door, there's nothing there. No walls. No walls. And so if you like the word transparency better than accountability, fine. I'm with you. But the point is, when you're in a marriage situation and I've said this, I know I don't want to put any words in dor John Lone's mouth but I've heard him say similar thing. When people People hide things when they have something to hide And so if you can start your marriage off with full transparency, I know the passcode to Sam's code, he knows the passcode to mine. I have access to every account. He has every access to mine. There's nothing that I have that he can't get to. and I don't view that as him controlling me or me controlling him. It is There are boundaries that keep us both safe and protect our marriage because it's the most precious thing that we have And so just remember that Scripture of the day Jobty four thirty two. Teach me what I cannot see. If I've done wrong, I will not do so again. Sarah Blakeley said, It's important to be willing to make mistakes. The worst thing that can happen is you become memorable. or infamous. That's the thing. Big difference between Fous and infamous. show. Oof. All right. Curtis is in Austin, Texas up next. What's going on, Curtis? How can we help Hey guys, thanks for your time today. My wife and I about three weeks ago We were victims of a scam that targeted our credit union details to it, but the short version of the story is they got everything, including our starter emergency fund. Oh L. How did this Howard So they pose as fraud agents and like they did everything how This is a credit union I've been with since I was in high school. They spoofed the numbers, they followed all of the same procedures and scripts as other fraud claims that were legitimate that I've dealt with. and the last fifteen years that I've been with them Um And so Like all the numbers all the phone numbers were the same, whether it was a text message or a phone call. So it was by the I didn't realize what had happened until after I got off the phone And we immediately started trying to the pieces back together So, um filed a fraud claim with my credit union. They denied it because of the they said it was a approved transfer, whether it was legitimate or not that I approved the money under false pretenses and so it doesn't qualify as fraud. They're also still trying to recover the funds whichich I don't understand, but they said it could be ninety days before they know whether or not they're going to be able to get them back They recommended an IC three report with the FBI, which I did. and then I did a police report that night as well. And so I've done all of that Um ion is My wife and I were talking U shortly after this happened about how How do we move forward? We're on baby step two, We use every dollar every day How do we go about covering financially Understanding there is a decent chance we don't see any of that money ever again Yeah, that's how I would live my life. Otherwise this will just consume you and live rent free in your head. I hope you get the money back. How much was it thousand eight hundred and forty eight dollars. And that's money you had in the account Yeah, that was that included our starter emergency fund My brother and I haveve always dreamed of going to a World Cup match. I'd been saving up for a ticket for that. We had saved money to replace my wife graduated with her master's last month We drove out to Lubvick, we put money aside because she was out to leave. And so we knew she was going to get docked for some days. So we put money aside to offset that M all of that. Curtis, help help help the listening audience and tell us how this happened. tell us Tell us how they contacted you, tellell us what they said. tellell us more so that if anybody else is Because chances are somebody else is in the same situation and they're wondering I wonder if this is real or is this fraud? So give us tell us how it went down Yeah, they called while we were we were traveling for my wife's cousin's wedding. They called while I was trying to get the room key fixed And I ignored it. It showed up as being from my credit union. Like I had the name of the bank on the screen of my phone. I didn't answer the first call. They immediately called back a second time And then again, so it was it was You were like whenever anwer it. Yeah. Exactly. And then when I got on the phone, they're like, Hey It's our fraud it's the fraud department at the bank name here there's been some suspicious activity on your debit card Did you spend three hundred and sixty dollars at a Walmart in North Carolina No. And so they're like, okay, what about sixty five dollars at a shell in North Carolina? No, I'm in At the time I was in Houston and not North Carolina. and so How did the transfer happen? Did they say in order to protect your money, you need to transfer it here They put me through to what they called the Web services team And again, that's another department that I'd actually spoken with on the phone in legitimate circumstances before And so They said that you should have gotten a fraud alert over text message U And they they some I don't some parts of it that I don't remember, but at at the end of the day, they started sending me teext message alerts that I was under the impression were test and those text message alerts approved transfers, three transfers that took all of our money At any point did you give them, I'm guessing at some point, obviously, you confirmed account information or gave accnter information, D you know that they were doing a transfer or did that part happen without you ever even knowing it? Becauseuse it sounds like the credit union is saying you approved a transfer. And I'm wondering what that looked like Yeah, they' and I may have. they they told me the folks on the phone, the scammers on the phone told me it was a test They were testing my fraud alerts to make sure my account was working correctly Wow. Did you like sezll the money? I'm just confused how someone could just real it was some when the when I called and filed the fraud report that night, they it was real time payment is what the woman said on the phone. shows up is RTP Okay, and you never checked your actual bank account to see if there was any weird transactions not before Not before all of that, not when the first call came in. So let's let's run this back because usually you will see A transaction, if they say, did you do this, you can go back and see and it'll be sitting there pending and it's like, no, I didn't do that So for those listening yeah, you always want to verify it. And Curtis, I hate that this happened to you, but so many people are going to learn from this. We have millions of people that watch and listen The second thing is, you know, if you have fraud happen on your account, they take care of it on their end. There's almost literally really nothing you ever have to do on your end other than say I did or I didn't do it So if anybody's asking you to you know, transfer the money, wire the money, anything like that, avoid it at all costs. And one thing that I like to do is if somebody calls me, I say, okay, hold on a second and I'll call back And that way you can make sure that it's legitate. So then it's like let me go on the website and let me find the number and let me call them back and say, hey, I was contacted about fraud. And that way we know that it's a clean And they'll confirm yes or no. yes We actually did call you or nope, that wasn't us. That's a scam But man, I mean, I would file a police report because you're going to need that to escalate anything. And I would also file a report with the NCUA which is like FDIC, but for credit unions. So it's the National Credit Union Association. That's the governing regulator for credit unions. So once you have that police report, I could file it there. But again filing all this stuff doesn't mean you're going to get your money back, but at least there's some attempts you can make Do I reat it So as far as the recovery because we've filed the police report, we've filed the IC three report Do we treat this like a debt and pay ourselves back to try and get back on our feet financially? Do we you need bill gotten paid. You'll need to start our emergency fund, you'll need enough to cover your bills And then once you kind of have you're back to some status quo with your money, then you can start hitting play on that debt snowball. But right now, it is going to set you guys back probably, you know, at least a couple months, right Yeah, we're at least two and there's a chance for that it would take us three with some Health issues that we're navigating right now to. I am so sorry. I mean, I, I got a pit in my stomach for you. That is just the worst. Sam and I have been there. We've been, you know, we had our credit cards our debit card skimmed at an ATM machine and they cleaned out our account and it was heartbreaking. I mean, it is just it makes you feel like you want to throw up My mother in law just got scammed out of thirty five thousand dollars this week. And so it is guys, this is just running rampant. So please just be careful out in these streets Verify. you know, the best thing that you can do is if you get a text message, an email, a call And you're wondering like maybe this really is real. If fightety sensors are going off, if there's a lot of urgency on the other end, if they're asking for any kind of personal information, likely a scam. Yeah, neverever click the link in the email, never click the link in the text. never call the number that they give you to call. Always go online. and a lot of times you can Google the numbers and find out if it's a scam or you can plug it in if you Get the email, click it, and make sure it's the real email and not just a front. Oh man Wow, well, that puts this hour in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace Christ Jesus The Athletic Brewing company crafts award winning non alcoholic beers for those who want to be part of every round. With over one hundred and eighty five flavor awards, they're exceptional NA beers that fit your lifestyle and any social occasion