Analysis of the Sussex retail ventures

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Sign up at postcodelottery.co.uk People's Postcode Lottery Managing Lotteries on behalf of good causes. 18 plus conditions apply, play responsibly, not available in Northern Irel and. This episode is brought to you by Lufthansa. So we all love a holiday, right, Richard? I think we all do. So if you're thinking about that big dream holiday, might I suggest Rio de Janeiro? I have always fancied Rio de Janeiro. Are you telling me that Lufthansa fly to Rio de Janeiro? I most certainly am. You can enjoy Lufthansa's easy and tailored service from takeoff to touchdown, and then you'll be ready to enjoy all that Rio has to offer as soon as you're there. I genuinely would like to go to Rio. Buenos Aires I loved, and because I've I've felt I've looked at Rio. I really, really want to go. Karen's been to Rio twice, but for the carnival, both times. I still definitely, definitely want to go for the carnival. You can hang out on the world famous Copacabana and Ipanema beaches. Marvel at Christ the Redeemer and Sugar Loaf Mountain while sipping on a Kuiperina, of course. Not to forget their world famous music, spirit of celebration, and football. Those samba rhythms will take you away. And so will Lufthansa with an individual premium service from the moment you book its maximum comfort above the clouds. Say yes to Rio de Janeiro with Lufthansa and discover more at Lufthansa. com. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rusters Entertainment with me, Marina High. And me, Richard Osman. Hello listeners. Hello Marina. Hello Richard, how are you? I'm okay. The sun has been out. Sort of spring is in the air. One hundred percent. That's nice, isn't it? People listen to the podcast on lovely long walks through the country Is that how you imagine it? Gambling through daffodils. I would have thought so, yeah. Yeah, I'd have thought so too. Um and just looking directly at their feet instead of at the uh nature. Yeah. I don't really like a walk through the countryside. There's I do you know what I mean? I know I'm supposed to enjoy. I don't like sandwiches, I don't like what's through the garden. But I do I like the idea of being out there and fresh air is nice. Yeah. But you know when people say, Oh my god, it's amazing communing with nature. I'm not what are you I g I'm I guess there's trees. Would you do it in a golf court? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. I saw Project Hail Mary. Yeah? Listen, I'm happy okay. It's done good business. It's done amazing. I'm really happy that a film I mean it's not entirely an original is it because it's based on a book which by the way people are obsessed with this book. You know, it's a big swing and people have uh and people have turned out for it. I have to say, you know, there's a lot of things I I found wrong with it, but equally there were lots of great bits about it. And to be honest, if you don't, you know, people watch 20 hours of absolute rubbish at home. And if you don't turn out for a couple in the cinema, then there aren't going to be cinemas. So it's the biggest film of the year so far, and I think going and have a look and see just seeing what the biggest film of the year so far is to me always a valuable exercise if your local tickets aren't exorbitant. And Ryan Gosling is in it. But we're not talking about that, are we? What are we talking about? Good times for comedy question mark, because SNL UK launched on Saturday night. Last one laughing. LOL. LOL UK. We're we're gonna talk about that and uh the world of comedy but also talking about Netflix appears to have divested themselves of runaway business success as ever which is as you know is Megan's sort of retail brand attached to her um show with Love Megan. And we're gonna have a look at the state of the Sussex's media and content empire and also what happened with Netflix and talk a little bit about Netflix and retail, which is quite interesting. And I think you've spoken to somebody who has some We've spoken before about that happening and um you know, I was very much a booster of it. There was a huge amount of sort of toxicity around it and negativity around it, and oh this is gonna be awful and S and L America is awful and all this stuff and uh you know, my view has always been, I think your view as well, they are spending a load of money on comedy here. And when the cast came out, I was like, they've got some really good people here. Oh, this is younger, this is interesting, this is different. So I had very, very high hopes for it. Of course, it's in all of the press telling me how awful it was going to be. We haven't talked about what you think about it. I go on record as saying I don't think it could have been better. I thought it was magnificent. James Longman, who produced it, is listen, we'll talk about writers and we'll talk about performers and we'll talk about format and all of those things. To take that show with the pressure that was on it, with and I know this doesn't sound like a pressure, but sometimes it' thes money that was behind it to have landed that plane in a way that I just thought there was last from start to finish. I thought I genuinely thought it was a magnificent achievement. I mean I've said before that I don't like SNL U the U S thing. I don't like by the way, I love reading about it. I've read every book about for some reason I love the law around it, but the thing itself. It's not my thing. But if i if it is your thing, it's such a successfully done transfer. I see it didn't please all the pol TV criticism. One of the things I would say about TV criticism in this country is it's a sort of gentleman, and I mean gentleman and gentlelady amateur sort of thing, isn't it? We we so often there's a lot of T V critics in the country who are given the job that it's like, oh, you know, you're good at writing and you've got opinions, why not have them about this thing? Yeah. We don't really do it with the city or you know, with business or with e or with sports. Or with with film. Or but we somehow, for some reason, there's this whole tradition of saying, You don't really know anything about TV, why don't you write about TV? Um and there's a little bit I did think that there was a little bit of that in some of it that just simply didn't understand what had happened. Bits of it I'm reading, I think you you have no idea or understanding of why this format is over here. Yeah. How it got made, who these people are. If you're saying these people are, you know, new faces, then you shouldn't be writing about television I think they were quite surprised that they didn't hate it. I think they were quite because they could see it wasn't b ad, but they couldn't work out if it was good. They didn't have the confidence of actually saying, oh okay, oh actually and you know the first episodes of of of comedies famously are very, very poorly reviewed in both senses of the word poor. I remember the r the first reviews of the office which were just saying people didn't understand what it was. Yeah. I mean just saying this is a disgrace. This is b where's all the money gone? Why Ricky Gervais can't write? He might be you know, the reason you do need SNL is is this, you can you can take all of those people, but Lauren Michaels and you have the format of the show and you have the history of the show and as a perfor mer that gives you something bigger than you that that exists out there. So it's very, very, very useful to have something that gives you those limits as a if you're if you're a writer in that writer's room, if you're a performer as well, to know that it has to be X minutes long, it has to have X amount of sketches, there will be two songs in the middle of it, there will be a an over enthusiastic live audience in the middle of it. You'll be reading from cue cards, all of these things that that that come from somewhere else. It has a brand and a name that you can fall back on. It just gives you extraordinary freedom. And for for this young group of performers, good on Sky for taking a big is that big swing. Is that big it's their most on um expensive unscripted ever. Everyone told them they were idiots. Yeah. Everyone says this is gonna be terrible, it's gonna be the same old faces, it's gonna be this, it's gonna be that. By the way, Trump has already shared the cold open, so in which Starmer's sort of shown sucking up to him in a voice note or whatever. So um I yi it's already part of the global cultural conversation. He's finally found an SNL he likes Trump, so that's good. It does illustrate something about this show, which is by the way the same for the US. I mean the US one's on later, it's on at eleven thirty, this is on at ten. Is it clippable? You get the cultural relevance actually from the clips that go viral. Things have changed, and it's not that you know, Law Michaels always used to say it was like sport and that you know some weeks your team has a bad game and then you just come back next week because you're invested in the whole production as it were. It got two hundred and twenty-six thousand viewers live. Okay. Here's where we are television guys. Um, but um and there was something I found slightly cringe whether we in the in the one of the trails for the thing was saying, you know, if you're not getting laid on Saturday night, and it was sort of almost as bad as saying you're gonna be watching it hungover on a Sunday morning. But actually, what really needs to happen is that the sketches go viral on um social media. That's where you get the cultural relevance now is from those kind of things. You can't just make clips that that that's the that's the point. That's the point of why it's SNL. That's the point of why it's live on television is you can't clip something from nothing. You know what I mean? It it's it has to it has to have the mothership before you send these little pods off into the universe. The princess die impression in that, Jack Shepp's Princess Die Impression. I'm so sorry. It wiped the floor with both Emma Corin and Elizabeth DeWicke in the crown. That's the best Princess Dia Impression I've ever seen. And by the way. I know she died thirty years ago, so we can talk about the relevance. But And that's and that's and that's an and and this is epic. And that's an eight minute sketch. But right in the middle of it, you have like a three second meme which goes around the world. Yeah. I mean again. And which quite frankly, Richard, was you know, put it in the Louvre. It was it it's such a good impression. It's it as I say, it's wiped the floor with the crowd. One thing I would say about it, and I do think that this is significant, uh we know it costs a lot, the six episode order. It's eight now. It's it's yeah, it's they've gone to eight in the in the middle of the last week before it launches. Yeah. And even eight is like in the US it's go it it's twenty. It's very, very difficult to have such small portions if you're trying to bed in costs, bed in ideas, bed in the whole sort of thing, that is going to be the thing of which it is the biggest victim in my view, because it's just hard to kind of say, oh this is part of our kind of cultural conversation and everything, but there's six or or eight episodes. of it now Yeah, but n not not nothing's part of our cultural conversation anymore. You know? So it's I I I think it's okay. And I think you know what does that take? Nothing is part of our culture What are we talking about? I just mean or we must be talking about something. We're not in that thing anymore where we go, Oh, let's put Wogon on every night and then people get juiced and then then the whole of Britain will watch it all the time. No, but you you know that we live in an always on culture and you know there's something w the reason we do this podcast every week, the we reason artists are doing little drops of things all music artists all the time, is because if you are not on all the time, then you fall away and people are like and actually, you know, even SNL people are saying that does twenty episodes a year. Doing eight is very, very small. I don't know it's possible if it's very successful, they'll bring it back in sooner and we'll have two runs of it a year or something like that. I don't know. They can do anything they like. They might just keep it going. They might you think they'll keep it going. No, I think they could keep it going. I mean they can do anything. That's the point. You know, Sky has the money, if they have something that's that's that's paying off for them, they can do anything they want. The thing they shouldn't do is go we're gonna immediately go into twenty. Because they didn't know it would be good. Okay. I ag I agree that you're you want it to be good. You hope it's going to be good. Uh and I think it's safe to say it is good. It won't be for everyone and there'll be you know hits and misses and stuff like that. But it is it is the thing that they ordered with this new generation of talent doing something interesting. Uh but you're not immediately going to say let's do twenty six or three. I know you're not, but well, I mean I think people will have other but you know, people will have other bookings, people will have other things. You have to be relatively organised. You can't just say this is what we're we're and okay, now now we're always on. I think it's difficult in an always-on world to do that short an order. And that's something I think will be a stumbling block. is the live show and you know the the the the clips come off it. So long as you're branding stuff SNL, you can have little satellite offshoots of this program on all year round. And then you know the main show comes back. But you know if you're Sky, you've now got this thing and this group of performers who are attached to this thing who are a stable for you. And of course some of them will be off doing movies and some of them will be off to doing sitcoms and this, that, the other, but not all of them all the time. So it's getting a stable of people, a stable of talent who people are hungry to see, and you have some ownership over them and they have some loyalty to you. And that's what you want with this show. You want the show itself and then you want the group of people who come through that sho If they successfully buy ITV, which I don't see why they wouldn't do you put this you put this on Saturday on ITV, don't you, on Saturday night? I don't think it matters where it goes. I really don't think it matters where it goes. Because if you it would be getting more than two hundred and twenty six thousand viewers, you know what? It would be getting four hundred. I mean it's I mean not I mean not a lot more. And and that's this doesn't make any difference to the return on investment for Sky. It doesn't make any difference to Lauren Michaels. Why would the economics not change? Well because if listen the difference between getting two hundred and fifty thousand um viewers and getting seven million viewers is significant because the ad rates are much, much bigger. The difference between two hundred and fifty thousand and four hundred thousand are not massive, it's a bit, but really the money they're gonna make from the show is the ancillary stuff, it is the the clipping it, it is building the careers of those people and building projects off off off the back of them. So you know, the basic economics of this is a stable of people making this stuff and and actually another hundred thousand people watching it live will make a tiny bit of difference, but not enough that that's your business model. You know, no one no one's gonna get rich off that extra hundred thousand viewers. Okay, let's talk about Last One Laughing 'cause we've got and then maybe something about both of them together 'cause I think it's interesting. Yeah, so so last one laughing. So we've been talking about SNL, we've been talking about the reviews and it is is is a cultural phenomenon but it is not something that the mainstream of Great Britain is watching or talking about. Okay, it it'll again, the clips will start to get on their radar, but it it'll it'll take people a long time before they work out that S N L UK even exists. Last one, laughing, however, is a different catalog. Is a genuine phenomenon. I mean, you know, it's it within its first sort of two or three days of over two and a half million people watching it and that just that grows and grows and grows and grows and grows. I had so much laughter over the over this last weekend thanks to all all these incredible people. But so last one laughing is a totally different thing. I mean it's totally different. It's one day's work. Yeah, it's one day's work. But is what happens fifteen years after you give people their break? As always, just like we always say, the minute a format in your uh we know this format's been around the world for a very long time, um but the minute format sort of ages or gets to its second generation within your country, you can see now the gameplay is different from last series. I'm fascinated by it, right? The com the comic comic game theory. Everyone's got their face, but the stakes now that they know that Bob Mortimer has come back to defend the title. Talent fees on this show are a c are insane. I mean they're like m for many, you know, m some will be getting north of quarter of a million quid and it's a day, okay? And obviously they're all you know, Romish is gonna be on a lot more than I don't know, Sam Campbell or something, even though they they're all but it's all so it's all a bit different. Now you think, oh hang on, I could come back and get one of the the best appearance for you in t in television. Again. Again, if I win this thing. So the gameplay to me, maybe I'm just suggestible, but people have told me this in advance from people who connected with the production saying, oh yeah, no, they're really playing it this time. And you are starting to realize that there are sort of skills which is you realize that it's sort of an endurance game. And the skill that when you have the mic, as it were, not necessarily when you're playing a joker, but when you're just talking to someone, is to be able to do that Bob Mortic Mortimer thing and to just d derail so completely that it's just like a broadside from nowhere that you didn't and people just can't stop laughing. Can I say who I th the absolute standout for me and all c all comedy fans will know him already and he's been on House of Games and I've seen him live so many times. Sam Campbell. Yeah. I think if you have not seen Sam before, and that's the lovely thing about Last for Laughing, it gets such a big audience that actually it does introduce, you know, like um Bemi who's who's who's on it, um who I love, but but Sam is so brilliant at it, he doesn't even seem to need a face. Yeah. It feels like it feels like he's Luke to Bob's Darth Vader. Do you know what I mean? The idea that I do think it's interesting, one thing I think is interesting about this is first of all, is that we know how Amazon work. They whereas Netflix will like try and get a hit, will spend huge amounts of money on something and try and get a global hit with one property, Amazon like to sort of replicate formats and so they've got lots of the, you know, they've got various, but they also have a sort of market map as we've talked about before. You don't need that many shows. They've got Clarkson's Farm, which covers part of it, they've got Beast Games, which covers part of it. And then in the UK, um, they've got this, which covers part of it. It's really interesting. Last time they were last time it aired when it became this huge hit immediately, a third of the audience to Last One Laughing hadn't watched any content at all on Amazon prior to the month of release. They are trying to do something. I find it quite fascinating with both these shows. I know you're saying Sky, I've got all these comedians and so on, but to some degree I have, to say, I think Sky are sort of raging against the dying of the light. And what Amazon are doing is they want to get you in because they want to sell you shopping, they want to sell you insurance, they want to sell you services. But different businesses. They want to be the everything corporation. It's almost bizarre. In the old days, you know, the BBC would have a s a new comedy show and the ITV would have one and we'd compare it. Now it fit seems to me such a category mistake that you and I w that we're even talking about these together because the companies are so so different, and I have to say, it's sort of weird. Like the comedians are just like the fact that this both happening through some sets of comedians is sort of nuts, really. But actually, these two huge kind of corporate things, I fear it is a battle that has already been uh the comedians are the foot soldiers and then it's a battle that's already been kind of won and lost. People are starting to understand they can use comedy again. I would rather these companies who have very different business models and they will take big swings on everything. I would rather they were taking big swings on comedy than say F one. And I love F one. Yeah. I love talking about the two of them together because they are very, very different swings because both companies do very different things. And I love that you could almost transplant the cast of SNL to Last One Laughing Series fifteen in fifteen years' time. You know, you can I was thinking that while I was watching it. Yeah. But there's something also weird about comedy, which is that it's such a kind of crazily zero-sum thing. People, you know, will watch absolutely hours of a really rubbish thriller with loads of ridiculous plot holes and they'll be like, eh, it was okay. I mean, you know, past the time. Thirty seconds of a sketch they don't like, they lose their minds. They lose their mind. And it's so and you just I do feel consider how long you will give a a an incredibly two and a half star thriller and then how vicious you are about thirty seconds of something that didn't like get you immediately. Give it a break. What what a joyous weekend of of laughing and and and it's I just want to say thank you to all the production teams for that work. And I do think SNL listener will have ups and downs, I'm sure of that. But I I thought it landed extraordinarily well and I'm I'm excited to see where they take it. So I just want to see more of those performers, you know, and I want to hear more from those writers. And before this happened, there wasn't a place that they could do that particularly other than individually and on TikTok and stuff like that. Now all of them are together and uh I it's I I find it exciting to think what will come of it. It's uh it's a it's a a rare uh ray of optimism. Right. After the break we're going to be talking about disturbances in the force within the empire of Meghan and Harry, the content empire of Megan and Harry. Anyway, join us after the break . This episode is brought to you by Bumble. Now Richard, people get very nervous before sending the first message on dating apps. Your finger hovers over the phone screen thinking, Am I actually gonna do this? Yeah, they debate if the person is who they say they are and if replying is gonna feel comfortable or mildly stressful. But Bumble's photo, number, and ID verification makes it much clearer who is behind the profile, giving you the subtle reassurance that lowers the stakes of sending the first hey. 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Research is ongoing, but this careful process is how treatments move from the lab into hospitals. Cancer Research UK backs innovative ideas, and thanks to decades of support, over eight in ten people in the UK receiving cancer drugs are using one developed by or with cancer research UK scientists. For more information about Cancer Research UK, their research, breakthroughs, and how you can support them, visit cancer research UK.org forward slash the rest is sci ence. This episode is brought to you by Lufthansa. So we all love a holiday, right, Richard? I think we all do. So if you're thinking about that big dream holiday, might I suggest Rio de Janeiro? I have always fancied Rio de Janeiro. Are you telling me that Lufthansa fly to Rio de Janeiro? I most certainly am. You can enjoy Lufthansa's easy and tailored service from takeoff to touchdown, and then you'll be ready to enjoy all that Rio has to offer as soon as you're I genuinely would like to go to Rio. Buenos Aires I loved. And because I've I've felt I've looked at Buenos Aires of Rio. I really, really want to go. Kieran's been to Rio twice, but for the carnival, both times. I still definitely, definitely want to go for the carnival. You can hang out on the world famous Copacabana and Ipanema beaches. Marvel at Christ the Redeemer and Sugar Loaf Mountain while sipping on a Kaiparina, of course. Not to forget their world famous music, spirit of celebration, and football. Those samba rhythms will take you away. And so will Lufthansa with an individual premium service from the moment you book its maximum comfort above the clouds. Say yes to Rio de Janeiro with Lufthansa and discover more at Lufthansa. com. Right, Megan and Harry. um last with the sh one of the show one of the shopper's Bibles, there are three holy books, um, saying that Netflix had fallen out with Meghan and Harry, really. Um just a little reminder of what happened. When Meghan and Harry left the royal familyy. The set up this sort of content production company called Archwell, and they did various deals, big money deals. Most notable of which were they did a $20 million deal with Spotify to produce podcasts. It ended up producing one series before that fell apart. Um he did a book deal with Penguin Random House that was a an absolute roaring success. That was the fastest selling nonfiction book of all time. Yeah. Um he got at least 40 million dollars. That went very well. And they did what's always pegged as a hundred million dollar deal for Netflix. People are now sort of rowing back on that saying it's closer to 60. You would expect that because it would have been like, oh, if you create some hit, of course different clauses would have kicked in and I'm sure that it w then it would have taken it to hundred. But then that's saying it's maybe sixty million. Nice work if you can get if you can get it. Money money I'd rather was being spent on comedy. So yeah. Yes, absolutely. Well in in a way it was. Yeah. So they did a documentary about their exit, um a sort of misery documentary, which was massively, massively successful. I think that was the biggest ever documentary debut for Netflix. And they did ones about polo and Global justice. Which one? And then their various development projects as producers have come to nothing. But they also ended up doing Megan's lifestyle show with Love Megan. And what was interesting there is that Netflix became a retail partner. They basically paid to establish her brand as a retail entity. That's a real holy grail for any company. If you can own a piece of merchandise, you can see from from Mr. B. Beast and we we spoke about just now about Amazon. If you can have an audience who then give you more money to buy something that you also own, that is an incredible business. Mr. Beast is YouTube's highest paid creator by a long way and he makes all his money off chocolate. So there we go. So what was the retail business? It was jam, famously. Um it was sort of dried flowers to sprinkle on food, it was some baking mixes, it was rose, I I there will have been a scented candle. Anyway, so there've been all kind of stories about this retail um people were like, oh it's a flop, then oh it's a wild success because someone tried to type in how many units they could get and there were loads of them so they thought, oh right, actually they put in a huge order. The reporting on it's been really bad. But a couple of weeks ago, we heard that they were sort of separating and that met Netflix were no longer going to be part of this retail arm. Megan said she that has ever had experienced meaningful and rapid growth. I mean even her company. Yeah. Yeah. Everything has to be meaningful. Like even the lines and uh even your P and L is meaningful. It can't just you know, it's it's kinda she's creating wonder in every spreadsheet. Yeah. Then came this variety article and um it was it's quite an attack on them. Um and it's spok they've spoken to lots and lots of people within um Netflix. And by the way, I should say that legally, it is this variety article is caveated all the way through with denials from the Sussexes people saying, no, this isn't, this isn't case. So accept those caveats from us as well. Yeah, so so accept them people suggesting that Meghan was very difficult in meetings that um if something was said that she didn't like, the camera would go off and the microphone would go off. I think the Sussex is people have come back and said, you know, sometimes like all working parents, the children come into the room. You know, like I mean, I personally always wander off my zooms for ages. Um but anyway, they but then there are people saying I love the idea you're on a work zoom and your child wanders in he goes, Do you know what? I'm just gonna deal with that. Yeah. They said they had no good ideas, they thought there would be much more than in fact there it was all just th lots of jam. The key Why did they think there was gonna be good ideas? I mean, that's so weird. They spend their entire life around creative people. And so they they must have an idea. Why why are they sitting across the I'll tell you what what they actually thought and this is what the interesting thing is. To some degree the Sussex kept kind of cannibalizing what they had with Netflix in that Netflix had this documentary series, and then they discovered that they were gonna sit down with Oprah for CBS. So it's like, okay. They were gonna do this tell or documentary series. Then they discovered he'd done the kind of book deal and that was coming out whenever it was. And there's always this sort of sense that, you know, but don't worry, you can have with love Megan. That's all for you. So that they were getting to some degree the scraps. That's not true because the documentary was hugely successful. Variety said they had $10 million worth of surplus stock for this yeah, which is a lot of jam. That's a lot, that's a lot of jam. As I say, you know, they've denied all sorts of things. One thing we do know is that Ted Sarandos has unfollowed her and the brand on Instagram. Even though the the Sussex Law is like they're great friends with f um with Ted with what you know, again I hate to say it, but I always unfollow my great friends and their brands when there's no problem. Anyhow, why did they do it? Why did Netflix? Yeah, like you were just asking that. And speaking to someone who is who understands this from within US Netflix, when Ted Seranda said it's great discovery for us, I remember reading that quote and thinking, sorry, what? Like people find this jam in a shop and think, oh, I must watch that Netflix I've heard of. The retail angle. You want shoppable content one way or another. When they did the documentary, the you know, th their misery memoir, Leaving the Royal Family one, the big one, the only hit, everything that was featured in it essentially sold out. There were no affiliate links, they didn't have partnerships with anyone, but everything from I don't know, kitchen equipment to the shoes she was wearing, to even the Hermes b baby blanket in the background, which sells for more than a thousand pounds, sold out around the world. And Netflix are making no money on that, of course. But then they think, hang on a second, wow, they seem pretty good for shoppable content. The reason they're trying to do this is quite interesting. They have lots of different ways of selling stuff to do with their shows. They have a D T C uh direct consumer business, you know, their own website where you can buy Stranger Things or um Wednesday stuff. So that's sort of standard merchandise. But they have lots of experiential pop-ups. They have lots and lots of retail partnerships. They had a hugely strong one with Target in the US for Stranger Things. Obviously, they do things everything from Lego to Monopoly to all the different things you can do. Um, they do drinks brands, they do, they did a collaboration with Lacoste. Um, they had a lot of products. Squid Game did something massive with KFC which was huge. Yeah. Um and the yeah, and the live experiences of that. Bridgerton has got lots of different types from kind of quite fancy things within Liberty where they do T-sets and things like that to lots of live different events. But Stranger Things to some degree is the template franchise for all of this retail stuff. And by the way, the template franchise for just like for everything at Netflix, if they could replicate that, all of that strategy is very, very heavily influenced by Disney and how that corporation has played for the last 50 years more. But they don't have the legacy that Disney has where you can put every princess on a lunchbox and all of these things, but they're trying to build that and they want to build and they thought, hold on a minute, we have our very own princess here. Because if you and she's making lunch. Yeah, she's she's making lunch bots. I would love actually Megan Lunchbots, but then I am an ironist. They want that visible cultural relevance so that all the time when you sho again it's part of all is on culture, your your th your show is walking around on someone's backpack or in someone's lunchbox or wherever it is. Well they just announced or are trying to or suggesting a a huge K pop demon hunters tour. Well we know that was their huge boardroom, so they didn't have any toys for that 'cause they didn't be nothing. Believe me there will be so many toys next time round you won't believe it. Next, I was reading about the deal that the people behind Kop just signed. Yeah, no, it's a it's a big one. Honestly, it's it's probably the same daily rate as being on last one laughing. What they're what they're getting. So yeah, it's but it but it's all of that stuff and like we were talking about SNL earlier about how companies make their money, this is a huge version of it, which is how can we get people who are fans of this show to pay us more and more uh and more money and we keep a piece of it. So I would have said actually not a crazy risk. Not a stupid thing to say. So the discovery comment is not stupid. Megan. So if l a blanket in the background of the previous documentary is selling out, what if she is doing something about her life and about how she cooks and about what she uses? That stuff is gonna be. And it's not um owned by MS, it's owned by Megan and us and so you we are literally making money from the second this show goes out, every single thing that gets sold. That, if it comes off, is an absolutely huge business. I mean huge business, which is why they do it. But it it looks like maybe it didn't come off. Okay, so with Love Megan, as we can all see, is an incredibly cheap show. Okay, it's not actually her kitchen, it's some other person in Montecito's kitchen. But it's an incredibly cheap show, except you've paid the presenter a a ludicrous fort fortune. You've paid the them more than the Duffer brothers. Okay. You've paid her so much money and she's had no hits apart from this one thing. And you know the, ratings, I remember saying, Oh, it was in the top t the UK top ten for sort of five minutes and there's that whole sort of Sussex squad, those online people who go, Oh no, this these things are really successful. No. The tale of the tape is it performed like average lifestyle content that first series that was three hundred and eighty third watched over the six month period three hundred and eighty third of Netflix's programs. Okay, so that's average lifestyle content. And by the way, we are we have no uh dog in the fight. So we've said a million times before. Harry's hardback, which by the way, the the anti-Sussex is a going, oh no, it's the remainder bins. No, it's the single most successful nonfiction book. Of all time. Okay. So the second season, again, which remember they faked that they were like oh we've been renewed it's like no no you've already filmed them back to back and as a holiday um special which they then put on that was one thousand two hundred and seventeenth so that is way below average lifestyle content and as I say, also you've paid the presenter an unbelievable fortune, okay? Yeah and I mean put it this way, if if if it was the seventh or eighth biggest show on Netflix and you'd pay people that money, you'd be like, Oh I said this is not great and it's I maybe it's just about okay but yeah anywhere below that. Certainly if if you're if you're outside the top a thousand I didn't know they went outside the top a thousand. Oh my god it's it okay and I'll tell you why. Nobody cares about watching her make, you know, lavender biscuits for her ex hairdresser. Okay, this is bullshit and it's boring, right? This is what happened with the Spotify deal. It imploded and as Bill Simmons, who um is executive at Scop Spotify and also runs as a ring and network of poll work cars said, you know, you're grifters. They're grifters. They have nothing to say apart from this one story. And by the way, I'm sure I said this before, we're all grifters really. It's okay to be a grifter. I mean you but you're born with what you're born with. Okay. Well, yeah. I mean they are kind of out they're out of fashion. Yeah. You know, they're not very talented and they have a hugely oversated idea of their cultural relevance. You know, hard relate. It's a but but but it is what it is. A guy who used to run one of the big talent talent agencies, I think UTA, said at w a certain point a couple of years ago, you know, they're just not very good and this is the reality they had I talk of I've talked a lot you know so how many times have I talked about persona or personal brand or whatever and that people sort of want to see a certain thing from you and they had this they have this one story, which is we were treated badly in the Royal Fam you know, and we left the royal family. That is their one story. They're like the ancient mariner, right? They've told it every possible way they can now, but nobody cares about any of the other stuff at all. They literally don't. So what you're left with now is that they are just rich people. The victim thing worked out for them a bit, but now people just see them as extremely rich people. They are, they find her quite exhausting, they're quite f and and fake. And also I think the trouble is the audience of everything has become so media literate now. Um I even saw like some pictures of um speaking of misery documentary series, because I think Brooklyn and Nicola um Pelts might do. Uh yeah. They might do a you know, again another worldwide privacy tour. Wow. So if they do one, that will be very successful, but nothing else they do will be successful. And I saw some pictures of David Beckham looking sad in LA last week. And all the comments were, oh, this is Backgrid, which is a paparazzi agent agency. Oh, the staged photo agency. These are people in normal comment sections are starting to say they even know the names of um you know photography agencies and they know that they have a reputation for staging paparazzi pictures. You're dealing with such a media literate audience. Anything that Megan and Harry do now, because people always want to seem like they're in the know and they understand the bigger narrative and they can see all the plays and all the moves. They now say, oh you're only coming back to do this because you want content. You're only this is all just like a play to create more drama or more whatever so that you can have content so that we can get rinsed in some way. It's so hard. Yeah. If you're a comedian or a writer or an actor or a footballer, you can go and do your job and you can get collar minches for doing it. If all you have is you and you're not even an ideas person, you are just a person, that's a hard place to be. Yeah. What's your s what story do you tell now? Because really you can't complain about anything else anymore. You've done all the complaining, and they don't really have anything else. And you know, it's not going to be jam retail. Yeah. The way she's cast this is they're taking the stabilizers off I,'ve got meaningful growth and I'm going for it on my own. We'll see. In terms of being content producers, I will tell you one thing, and by the way, from Ted Zerandos, I'm following her, now she'd lot want to take this anywhere else. They still have a first look with um deal with Netflix, which is a sort of a way of saying, you know, we'll take a look. I mean it's a nothing, a first look, really, isn't it? People are waiting to see if further misery ensues. They will wait to see if they stay together and if they don't stay together, then believe me, then they've got another story that everybody wants to see. Still feels to me that if you don't do a sixty million dollar deal with Netflix, if you launch this slowly and by yourself, there's enough people who are interested in that brand to sell jam and there's enough money in selling jam to have a nice living. And you know, if they set their sites a little bit lower, it feels like it feels like there's a a business there. It's just not a business you want to spend sixty million dollars on. I I I want to sp spend sixty million dollars buying Harry's autobiography because there's a huge amount of money in it, but a but a jam business with with Megan, if you yeah, if you if she came and asked asked me for ten grand for twenty five percent of that, I'd be like, Yeah, that that that feels good. But yeah, sixty million dollars for twenty five percent of it would be um that would be beyond me. It's not a lifestyle brand in any meaningful sense. She has to do it, but she should have gone into something like Beauty. You can have eight products in beauty and sell your company for a billion, like Hailey Bieber has. Where do they go next though? 'Cause Netflix ha has a has a classiness to it which fits with what they want their brand to be. Unless they have a new victimhood story that really sells, for instance, they split up and Megan wants to talk about it, then there is nothing. There's money in that. There's a lot of money in that. Do you have any recommendations? I have three recommendations, some sort of cultural refer recommendations. If you haven't read the Hollywood Reporter article about the lighting at the Vanity Fair Oscars Party that was apparently a war crime, I s I strongly urge you to read it. It's very funny. They um they always had it in one place and they've moved it to um the Los Angeles County Art Museum of Art. Go and look at some of the photos of the light uh of the red carpet lighting. It's like they're being shot in 8K, like ultra-high definition. Everyone looks atrocious, okay. I mean, some of the most beautiful people in the world look awful, okay? But the writing of this story is so funny because it's so camp. I absolutely loved it. There's a quote in it saying, I genuinely feel bad for some of these women. One poor actress looked like a Diana Arbus character. She was on her phone looking at her pictures and shrieking at her publicist. I heard she went home and cried herself to sleep. Nobody's heard from her since. If it's like such a niche thing, but if you don't understand how much they care about lighting and how insanely angry they will be that they were made to look like that on the biggest night in the calendar, that's very funny. It's an hired reporter. Yeah. I really enjoyed a v Instagram post from Vin Diesel about the burden of creating the final uh F Fast and Furious as you know I'm a big fan of the franchise about muscle cars and the candy ass as you drive them.