Risk Management in Modern Film Marketing

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Prices for a standard two D ticket, exchange your club card vouchers, book online and visit between the twelfth and thirty first of May exclude Cineworld Leicester Square, Dublin and Jersey and special screenings. Ts and Cs apply, see Tesco.com/slash Cineworld . Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde. And me, Richard Osman. Hello everyone. Hello Marina. Hello Richard, how are you? I'm very, very, very well. Big week for show business this week. Rivals back again. We're going to find out the strictly hosts today. We're not allowed to Today being Tuesday. Yeah. But um we're very happy with them. Yeah. I think it's good. I think it's good. By the time this goes out, you'll know who they are. So this is exactly what we're doing announce things on Tuesdays? Yeah. It's really annoying. Try and you know, try and make the effort and do it at the weekend. But that's why that's like have I got news for you. They always record on Thursdays and that's always when elections are. Yeah. And they're always sort of recording and going, Well, I mean we've absolutely no idea I wrote quite a few columns like that last week. But that's like us for strictly. Yes. That is like Yes, what are we talking about? We are talking about phenotypes in nearly three thousand year old works of literature. What is a phenotype, just out of interest? It is the observable physical characteristics of an organism. Gotcha. Absolutely none the wiser. We are talking about Elon Musk getting very angry with Christopher Nolan for casting a black woman as Helen of Troy. We'll talk about that. We are talking about you might be shocked to learn that uh I'll be taking the lead on this next one. The return of Big Break. Big Break is coming back. I'll talk about the original, I talk about It's a snooker show. Sorry, I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah. If y there are some people who are in our audience who will not be aware of big break. I'm so sorry there are. There really are not. Please there is Oh god, I'd love to poll this. I'd love to poll this. Okay, I know about phenotype. I know what you're gonna say. Do you know what a phenotype is? Have you heard of Big Break? Okay, but I I think you'd also be quite disappointed by the answers. I'm gonna you know what? I'm gonna talk to our lovely friends at More in Common. I mean they've got better things to be doing at the moment. But uh I'm gonna ask them how many people know what a camera type is. Come off the connection and come and tell me how many people in the rest of Entertainment audience have heard of Big Bre I'm not saying nobody has, I'm saying it's more niche than you think it is. Sorry, anyway we're talking about the return. Well it won't be soon, will it? Because it's it's retur We're talking about that. We're also talking about the Cannes Film Festival, which is running over this part of last week and to the end of this week, where there are no studio films, no big US studio films. Um and we're gonna talk about why 'cause it's interesting, it's a bit a sort of departure. Shall we start with Mus k versus Christopher Nolan? Yes. Somehow Elon vs Nolan just feels like it's the one to go with. But yes, so the Odyssey comes out on july the seventeenth . Obviously it has all been shot, but there are certain little bits of minor characters, by the way, because Helen of Troy is a minor character in the Odyssey. It's one of the famous ones, yes, but yeah. So anyway, and he's revealed that um well they've done us a a publicity shot, so we now know that Luppitongo is Helen of Troy. Elon Musk uh has lost his mind. Uh because I you know what? The second I see any casting I always think I wonder what Elon Musk thinks. That's the opinion I want to hear. I I couldn't agree more. So it's great that he's immediately come out and, you know, as his is customary style, posted just the 950 times or something about it. He says it's not realistic that Christopher Nolan is doing it for the Oscars. He's got some sort of quota system that he thinks that if you have a certain amount of diversity then you've done it to meet the academy's diversity quotas and therefore you are eligible. He makes great films about men and the women who love them. And I'm kidding. Come on. No, we haven't. Elon Musk loves Troy, the the you know, there w there was a Brad Pitt one but that's a d I know, that's the Iliad. And Brad Pitt's Achilles and I can't remember who's had like Diane Kruger, maybe it's a long time ago, so I've seen it once. Even though that movie, by the way, plays incredibly fast and loose with the Iliad, with potential massive knock-ons in the Homeric extended universe. I remember being at that cinema just saying this is playing fast and loose with the union, isn't it? Stuff like that. Exactly. Yeah. I thought Paul Shane as Agamemnon, I thought no yes. Well Well we're going back to Bronze Age Greece of course. So we have to say, is any of this that realistic? I don't think they w they would have looked like Matt Damon and Tom Hall. I've seen the trailer. There's one big sort of trailer out. And they d I don't think they would have looked like Matt Damon or Tom Holland. Yeah. Uh you know, and Tom Holland says, you know, my dad's coming home or something like that. Again, I'm told they would have said it in Greek. I don't again I'm not the expert, but I'm told that we're just don't agree. Tom Holland's dad is the stand-up Dominic Holland. Yeah. So that's unrealistic. Yeah. Because we know that Dominic Holland was a very good one. This is why Michael Owen the footballer can all go to movies, because everybody's pretending to do things. He's right. This is right. Yeah. And I'm actually he could go and perhaps talk Elon Musk down off his latest ledge about this. Mel Gibson, I guess, would have done it in the original Greek. We need to check in with that resurrection of Christ. Actually, that's just reminded me. But I'll let me go and make some calls on that because I want to see how that's going. The next thing that he's going to get very upset about is that um Travis Scott has been cast as a sort of bard because Yes, the rapper Travis Scott. Yeah, because b because it's poetry's like rap and it's or something like that. But we haven't we haven't, you know, something. Yeah. We haven't seen um anything more it's a film and it's coming out closely. Uh we haven't seen anything more than the trailer. But Musk has really gone off the deep end about this and of course, all his sort of baby broser posting about it. I see, you know, that Kevin Sorbo, who was um in Hercules, you know, completely accurate classical, completely accurate classical piece. He said, You could have paid me to tank this movie, and I wouldn't have thought of this. There are new ways to be found to teach Kevin Sorbo to tank movies. There's a guy Mot Matt Walsh, who's a commentator. Yeah. Uh and he's talking about it and he did you wanna know how he describes Christopher Nolan. The f nerve of these men genuinely, who by all means, listen, stick to what you do, whatever it is. Elon Musk genuinely I know you started with a lot of money, but you're the richest guy in the world. It's not without talent. This is not your industry. Okay, it is not your industry. Some people are going to be better than you at other things. This is definitely one of them. I know from childhood you desperately wanted to be people like Christopher Nolan and you're not, and I know it burns you up. And now you're finally going, Oh my god, we can now start we got some power over these people. But just let somebody else talented get on with things he says about Christopher Nolan, Matt Walsh. Yeah, he's almost he's almost admitting to it here . He describes Christopher Nolan as technically talented but a coward. Isn't that amazing? Oh listen, he he knows where to point the camera. I'll give him that. Right, but a coward. Unbelievable. Do you know what, Matt Walsh? When people are filling the multiplexes to see your movies, we want to listen to your opinions about Christopher Nolan. Okay, but he's earned his place where he is. Why why do you think it is they feel they have to comment? Is it just the grift? Is it just that it it plays well to their base? No, I think someone like I it's different with Musk. I don't know. He's like a shit poster who had to buy the company so that he could be the primo shit poster and so all his posts are sort of pushed right up the algorithm and everyone agrees with him. Yeah, I I mean I do think it's quite sort of sad. Yeah. Um it is quite odd because i they are the people who do spend their entire time saying celebrities should not be talking about anything other than you know, should stay in their lane effectively. And there are times when I see celebrities say, huh, you know, I see another of Elon Musk's rockets has burst on launch or whatever it is. And it's like, oh, I'm so sorry. That celebrity should shut up. Okay. Sorry, love. It's rocket science. Yeah, because every one of your rockets would blow up on the room. And and he's amazing at this thing. The things they've done is it they they caught a rocket with some tweezers. Okay, and I get that sometimes they don't that they don't catch it and sometimes it blows up on the launch pad. But in general they are amazing. And I guess also there's scientists involved as well. Christopher Nolan, there's lots of people on that set as well. Technically brilliant scientists, but Cowan. Some of those guys. Do you know what? Why are they catching the rocket? That to me is cowardly. Let it crash to earth. Let it crash to earth. But he's built this company he's clearly better than everyone who tries to do what he does at what he does. Okay, that's great. But there must be something in childhood that means he constantly wants to be funny. He constantly thinks if I made the Odyssey I'd make it properly. You're aware of the father. Oh yeah, I I mean it's always sorry. Do you think so I was thinking of a TV I you know that when Sopranos came out and everyone thought it was funny the idea of a mobster having a therapist. Yeah. Do you think that many of these I was really thinking this the other day, do you think that many of these tech billionaires have therapists? No, but don't you remember that the stupidest idea that's ever been had for a podcast, and that means something, as you know, was Meghan and Harry's idea of like talking to well the people like Putin and saying thing you know effectively sort of asking about their childhood and talking and talking and therapizing them. Okay. Which I mean I would watch it if they managed to do it. If you're telling me that Vladimir Putin's gonna sit down with Megan Harry and they're gonna talk about their childhoods, if you don't think I'm keeping it locked on that of course. But s you can see, you can absolut I mean th they they they say the quiet bit out loud all the time, these tech titans, this envy they have for a certain sector of society, this desire to be funny, this desire to be liked in a creative way, this desire to take what it is they've been able to do in business and sort of come across as a personality who is likable and has some creative talent. But y someone must be talking to them about this. Someone must be going, you know it's okay. Look at what you've created. Look at what you've achieved. You're the richest man in the world. And you're excellent at the space, though. And you are a cultural imbecile. You literally are a cultural imbecile. I'm so sorry. Your favourite books are Lord of the Rings, you know, The Fountainhead, Iron Rand, it's that you're so basic, I can't even tell you. And that's fine because you're amazing at this base thing. And that's actually fine. You can't be non-basic at it. Most parts of your life you have to be basic in in order to have the bandwidth to be good at the thing that you're good at. Yes. Yeah. And you're and also you also have no idea of how anything cre I mean, I can't even believe I'm having to slightly talk about this, but the way the works of art, this is two thousand seven hundred, two thousand eight hundred years old, how they are reinterpreted over time and it really doesn't matter if someone said someone's got so's got golden hair. You might have seen all different types of Shakespeare performed, all different interpretations. It's kind of what keeps them ali ve. Exactly that. Certainly not the first one to have a non-white um Helen of Troy. Orson Wells um cast Earth a Kit as Helen of Troy. Woke. Yeah. Well yeah, was Wilson Wells awoke, you idiot Musk. Do you think do you know who he is? Um he found Orson Wells found her in a earthquake who went on to have this is really right at the start of our career. He found her in a lesbian dra g bar in Paris, um, again, how woke, that I think was run by one of Marlena Dietrich's um exes. Wow. And she was playing a man, Urtha Kitt was playing a man called Fred every night. She was an underground sensation in the world of um, you know, sort of after hours lesbian paris. And also well said she was the most exciting woman on earth. The most exciting woman on earth was this quote. And therefore, when he um did a stage thing he got her to be Helen of Troy. That's amazing. Yes. But was he woke? I d I don't think so. He's an artist. Artists want to do interesting like the Christopher Nolan, when he decides to do the Odyssey, he's not thinking, I'm gonna do this exactly like the book. Right? And for for lots of reasons. One, the book already exists. Two, the story's been told, retold a million times. So he only goes anywhere near it if he can do something that tells us that story but also tells us about the times we live in. That's the thing that interests him. To make an incredible spectacle, to make a piece of art, uh and to do something that is gonna entertain audiences. Now your starting point for that is not let's start on Word One of the Odyssey It's just not. Which is realistic. It's got a cyclops in it. I mean it's ridiculous. Like when people have an absolute meltdown about what can happen to Doctor Who, and you're like, I don't know, he's got two hearts, he's an alien. I mean, presumably, quite a lot of things can happen. But thinking of his cultural life, okay, the we know as I've said, he we know he likes Atlas Shrugged, we know he likes Lord of the Rings. I mean, we could have got like a really bad version of his AI to tell us this. We know he was playing that game Elden Ring, um which he was playing obsessively when he bought Twitter. Now that is now being made by Alex Garland. Then film filminging it here. They're it at the end. Yeah. Will it be satisfying to him? I do actually I think I've said this b take on this podcast before, but I've got a theory about why guys like Elon Musk really, really like those historical things and and those kind of weird fantasy worlds that are effectively just kind of just off versions of history. It's because women always get treated like complete shit in them. Always. But it's fine 'cause it's that's how it was. Yeah, because it's can't do anything about it. Yeah. It's a product of its times, even if that time is a fantasy time. So there were points with Game of Thrones where when it deviated from the book and then when they were like literally adding in rapes, I was thinking, I don't know, why do people like this so much? I love I love Game of Thrones, but I think you have to be clear-eyed about what's happening. There's a particular form of like I'm really into this type of historical, this historical fantasy world And i this is a fantasy. I mean it as I say, it's got cyclops in, it's got all sorts of monsters in it. It's it's fantasy. So to really mind about the skin colour is sort of extraordinary. They're also saying she's supposed to be the most beautiful woman in the world and And Whippy Goldberg said, mate, have you looked in a mirror? You got you you shouldn't be talking about looks. Oh she oh she's wonderful and she's she's also can I just say such a small part in this, but anyhow it has nonetheless caught fire because of course he owns the town square and he puts himself right in the middle of the town square. Yeah. And not my town. I think you do have no not you do have to keep things secret to some degree and it's not even equivalent, but they really did it so successfully with Barbie, which is no one really knew what it was. The pictures that had come offset were when um uh w when they moved shooting on location when they kind of appear in those kind of crazy bright clothes, Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie in Venice Beach, and it's in kind of in the real world, because otherwise for obvious reasons it was all filmed in kind of control studio environments. Nobody knew about it. They kept the plot and that tone which was so unbelievably distinctive and amazing secret um and the stuff you'd seen was kind of pink and goofy so no one really knew what it was going to be and when it came out and it was like, oh my god, has someone like done a feminist Barbie what? Yeah. Yes, then all the pundits attacked it, um, but by then it was a juggernaut. Yeah. Um and also it was really good. Um which let's hope is the case with I'm sure why wouldn't it be the case with the Odyssey? Um and even Fox News who created massive everyone create you know all the online right as usual created massive hit pieces against it. But it couldn't stop it and even Fox had to agree that it was really big in the red states and people were turning out for this film. So that's an interesting one. But they kept everything so completely secret. Um and in that case it was about the tone. Um but it can have an effect on the bottom line. I'm I talked to one person, a producer, and said, Can any of this stuff? And they said, It's Christopher Nolan, so he's an entity unto himself, he brings people into the cinemas in in a way that stars used to in the old days, and he's bigger than a star. He is there's he will bring people out to see his films and that is terrific. So again, we're slightly talking about a unicorn, but when they do have these pre-backlashes as it were against a film that has yet to come out. It's casual yeah, a front lage. Um it can it can depress turnout amongst casual audiences. They think there's a sort of culture war fatigue thing where people just think, Oh god, I haven't got the energy for it. Even though don't worry, it's not a culture war, it's it's not even the Trojan War. It's don't worry, it's really it's a journey home. And there are times when it can really dominate the narrative, and if you look at what happened with Ghostbusters or with Little Mermaid, it just sort of took over. And all female Ghostbusters got such a past ing. That's I think that was completely unfair. Yeah, I love that film. Um the the Little Mermaid, I don't know, it's just a live action version of everyt,hing but they had such a backlash again. I mean, that should just be a gimme and it's just fine, and you go to the cinema and watch the little mermaid. It you know, she's a mermaid. Yes. Again, come on, please try and suspend your disbelief that she could possibly be non-white, it doesn't really matter. So both those things were definitely effec ted by the front lash. So it is very hard to kill a great. It's very hard to kill a great if it's if it and I think that people will just turn out for this. Also it's just you know, the whole th the whole thing reminds me of how much easier the world is for people who are not conflict diverse. As someone who's deeply conflict averse, you know, it's that's hard to monetize. If you if you do not mind being in an argument the whole time, my God, there are pots of money you can pick up in this world, aren't they? It's like his full time job is arguing, and then he's just got this bizarre side hustle as an unbelievably leading kind of space aeronautics guy. But it's so weird. I mean, even you know, this week, you know, uh again he's having to go at Christopher Nolan now he's having to go at Anthropic a couple of months ago and now he's b back in business with them 'cause Groc doesn't seem to be working, so you know he's he's now sort of teaming up with with Anthropic. It's like it's almost like he doesn't mean almost everything Yeah. And you just think, well they just then just don't say it. Just do the good things that you mean. I do think he means the race stuff. I think he has certainly made many comments that would appear to be racist. But he wrote something recently on his platform which he even he deleted which I find I know. It's like in the middle of the night, which I don't even know if he keeps normal as I assume he doesn't in the compound with all the baby mothers. And he wrote bitches, money, no taxes, party. And that that party was really so unclear. I was like, is this like a social gathering, in which case I'll live with it? Or is this a political party that optimizes for the other three line items? What were they getting? Bitches , money, no taxes, party. Money and no taxes are sort of the same thing really, aren't they? Yeah, I mean you ca you couldn't argue with it because you're taking it down by the 'cause you're taking it down by the money. I mean whether anyone's making a film of that in three hundred years' time, I don't know. It's between two thousand seven hundred and two thousand eight hundred years. Oh, whether someone's making a film of that in two thousand eight hundred years time, I don't know. But it's uh it's a thing. I've seen actually quite a lot of films with that plot line. Yeah. So but it's quite it's possible there will be stories written, but maybe um yeah. But he deleted it, so I guess he doesn't have the colours. So what do we conclude? We conclude it's just it's just weird. It's just weird that they have to have an opinion on all the things. Which by the way, I don't mind people talking about whatever they like, but do be a ware that your opinions are very, very n they're very they're boring and they're stupid. But also they can't have therapists. There's no way. There's no way that Zuckerberg and Musk sit down once a fortnight with no someone wise to talk to them about their childhood and talk to them about why why they are how they are. Yeah, I mean I mean I'm quite a good big believer in pushing it all down, you know. So maybe so I'm certain of that. So maybe you know, they're in the the elder pushing it down. I mean I don't know where you'd start with that father with him. I mean God I would write a show though about a billionaire's therapist. That's got because they have someone for everything. Like they have full time staff for you know physical staff that you know have chefs, they have everything. You would think maybe that they would have an uh like like an on-staff therapist, but then maybe you get institutionalized and you get Stockholm syndrome and then the therapist just turns into AI and tells them what they want to do. That person has power in uh of of a type. Yeah, and they don't want anyone else to have power, right? No. Yeah. No. I I mean they have to be the top of the um the old org chart. Yes. Maybe they do have a therapist. Maybe. Maybe they do. If they do, by the way, that's a really bad therapist. Also has terrible opinions. I mean really, what what are you do ing? That's a that's that's a therapist who's not a fan of Christopher Nolan. Shall we take a break? Let's see. After which we will be talking about Snooker. Is that this big break show you were talking about? Yeah. I've not heard of it. I'll I think you'd like it. Okay . This episode is brought to you by Lloyd. Now I love it when characters are part of a club. You wouldn't know anything about that, would you, Richard? The Thursday Murder Club in some ways reminds me of the A Team. I would now like to map each of those characters onto the A Team and feel I probably could. I mean Elizabeth is Hannibal and it's not even close. Well there are definite perks to being in a club. If you join Club Lloyds, there's all sorts of benefits you can choose between. There's for example six free cinema tickets. They've got an annual coffee club and gourmet society membership, which would be mine. And also something that uh the Thursday Murder Club would enjoy very, very much indeed. Uh to top it all off there you have fee free spending abroad, which means wherever you are, you won't be charged by Lloyd's uh to use your debit card when you're traveling. Now joining this club costs five pounds per month, but that is refunded in any month that you pay two thousand pounds into your account. Now that is a club that's worth being part of. Check out Club Lloyds today. You'll need to be a UK resident and aged 18 or over to apply . This episode is brought to you by Great British Racing. Planning an escape from the city, a catch up with friends, or a work social that doesn't involve awkward karaoke? Well why not swap the office banter for something with a bit more gallop? A day at the races, perhaps? With fifty-nine race courses across the UK, you can enjoy racing all year round, from world famous festivals to casual evening events, and yes, even family fun days with the kids, there really is something for everyone. Think fresh air, thrilling finishes, and the occasional hat that deserves its own postcode. You know, the kind of stuff you'll be talking about for years to come. Over five million memories are made every year. So whether you're there for the excitement, the people watching, or just a proper day out, why not make some memories yourself? Search horse racing near me to find your nearest race course and discover your next great day out. The going is good . Welcome back everybody. With breaking news , our lovely producer Joey, we were just looking into whether Elon Musk has ever had therapy. He said this in 2024, just in case we're in doubt. He said, put never went to therapy on my gravest one. I mean, okay. Okay, he then by the way goes on to say, and this I don't know if the two are connected, it feels like there's just a rage of horses in my mind constantly Put a rage of horses on his podcast. Rage of Horses is good, Egon. That's a good bit of writing. Yeah, to be fair. You didn't know you were doing it. But um I would if you post that many times, eventually you're gonna write one good tweet. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, I'd like to explore his relationship with weakness. Yeah. I think that would be an interesting thing to What a shame that Megan and Harry podcast series never happened. I would have very very much enjoyed it. I would have loved that. Now talking of royalty. Yeah. Okay . Um there are often reboots on television and a particular show which people have said for years and years and years, when are they gonna reboot this has just been rebooted.ig B Break is back. So Big Break, which was a a huge show from um nineteen ninety one through to two thousand two. I would have sworn it started in the hour. That's good. Wow. Okay, I'm not gonna spend any more of it. Yes, you are. That's a short item. I'm having a drink, so you're gonna have to. That's good. Uh two hundred odd episodes uh presented by Jim Davidson and the wonderful late John Virgo. He was who was the royalty in the reference n rather than Jim Davidson. Uh yes, I think the format was the royalty. Yeah. But Virgo was so amazing. And by the way, I will be talking about royalties and formats in the context of this as well. So it's all coming together. But yes, John Virgo was uh was royalty in this context. So yeah, big break is coming back and there was a lot of hoopla about it. Uh used to be Jim Davidson and John Virgo, is now Paddy McGuinness. Yeah. Who never saw a reboot he didn't like. Uh and Stephen Hendry. The coolest man in the world. In my opinion. Certainly one of them. And the announcement has been well received, I think, because people love Paddy and Stephen Hendry is very, very good as well. So I think I I think it will be good. I just wanted to go through a little bit about what a weird show Big Break is, where it came from, why it came about, when it came about, why it is coming back and the job that it is going to do for the BBC 'cause it's not the job that That it's going to do, that's for sure. So Big Break comes about, invented sort of in the late 80s because bullseye had been such a big hit. And ballseye is a simple thing. You've got a darts player and you've got a quizzer and something that the quiz does sort of affects what the dark player does and something that the dark player does sort of affects what the quiz does. And there's prizes. And you know, Snooker was absolutely enormous, you know, that mid that mid eighties onwards era it was so huge at some point somebody was gonna do bullseye for snooker. Now for years and years and years the um it was credited to um Terry Mardell and Mike Kemp uh but they then were sued by a cabbie called Roger Metcalf from Birmingham uh and had to pay him a hundred grand and give him a third of the format as well. Because yeah, I know normally that's not the case, right? 'Cause what had happened was Roger Metcalf and Mike Kemp, who were friends, had said, Oh, we should do a bullseye but for snooker. And so they had this idea. Mike Kemp knew Terry Mardell. Now Terry Mardell had just had a big hit with Bob's Fall House which essentially bingo but as a quiz show. And so Mike Kemp goes, I've got a friend who knows how to format a a T V show. Terry Mardell takes this in, looks at it, he says it was an absolute mess, but we turned it into something and the BBC loved it and bought it and so it became a T V show. And it was credited to Terry Mardell and Mike Kemp and Methoff many years later said but I did come up with that with Mike and we took it to Terry and so he's got the money I see. When you said a cab driver, I thought that he he had said it to them. Oh in a cab , no. I don't think so. Oh can I do a sidebar? Yeah. On Always. Bullseye had been a hit. Yeah. Big Breakers a huge hit. So they decide, okay, well, let's do this again. We're gonna do this for golf. Uh and they did one series. I remember seeing it at the time and thinking this is really unacceptably awful. They did a show called Full Swing with Jimmy Tarbuck. Oh. Uh where it was I remember that. Do you Yeah yeah. Because it's the pro it's the the old pro I mean, they're all pro arm shows basically. You know. And golf obviously you would think would be or could in the right hands be made from they had the sort of you know, the very early computer screen thing where that you hit the ball at just bac before that technology This is really coming out of a memory hole. A weird Potting Green. Their version of the trick shot was a s a sort of big contraption. Yes, and in studio Putting Green. They're this big contraption where you just tapped the ball into it and it went around lots of things and then went in the hole. So there was no never any jeopardy. That lasted for one series. Anyway, that's just that's how TV works. Bullseye begets big break and that begets full swing. And then you never have to do any of those ever again. So BBC are bringing it back and people have been trying to pitch this for a few years. I've been pitched it before, uh because you know, because I love Snooker and people know that. And I I when I was it was mentioned to me, I was like, it's I love Snooker. This is not the show I would not do this show very well. It's not something that I would be particularly good at. And that was I think for five, 'cause five have now got lots of the Snooker. Um but the BBC have brought it back, but brought it back in a very interesting way. It is for BBC two daytime. Yeah. Nothing is for BBC Two daytime anymore. Six o'clock you get um uh house of games and stuff like that. But there is nothing now in that kind of two PM till six PM sort So it's for BC two is for daytime. And what it is and it's an object lesson in everything has to do a number of different jobs now if you want it to be commissioned. What they are doing, they're doing uh uh twenty episodes of it and it will do a number of things for them. Firstly, it will be a program that they can just put out. See how it does. Just like in the old days where you'd commission a program and I wonder if people will watch it, and if they do, you put it out again. So they will do that and if people love it, they can do a prime time version of it. But what they're also doing is doing it so every time the snooker is on and the BBC have just signed a deal to 2032 for the world championships, the Masters and the UK Open, which are the triple crown events, they have this stuff absolutely ready to go. They'll have these twenty episodes, they'll probably do another twenty, they'll probably do another twenty. And it just means when this the snooker comes on, which does really good business for BBC Two, they have this thing that they can play throughout breaks in the in the frames, which is a big deal for them, and then can sit on iPlayer forever and every time the snooker's on and people are interested in snooker, like people get interested in tennis every time Wimbledon's on, they have this thing on the iPlayer. So it's one of those ones. It's not going to be expensive. They certainly they used to film four a day. They probably probably will again, but it will be an accompaniment to their snooker programming, which is nice for them. It'll be a lovely thing that sits on iPlayer. And if people like it, suddenly they will have a hit on their hands and they can put it on Saturday night. But it's it's I I find it such a fascinating commission because it's not like any other as I say, no one's commissioned anything for BBC Daytime for about for BBC Two Daytime for about eight years. And they just haven't. And now suddenly we've got one of the biggest uh brands in British TV sitting there with big, big, big name hosts. Uh and um I like to see that chemistry. I think uh Stephen Hendry is really funny. Yeah. He really is. And Paddy is great with people. I I I will really like to see him. Yeah. So Terry Mardell is very interesting who came up with um this uh there are other names, but Terry was a stand up comic and back in those eras in the world of light entertainment there were lots of stand up comics who sort of was started writing gags for hosts, did warm-up, Terry Mardell did warm-up, his brother Wally Mardell did warm-up as well. Um so Terry Mardell not only came up with um Bob's Four House, but he was also the warm-up for Bob's Four House as well. Had a big hit show in America called Sweethearts, which was a which was a a a sort of uh a dating show. But the show he did immediately after Big Break had an interesting um lineage to it. So he had this hit with Big Break and suddenly America gets interested in Bob's Fall House. So Terry Mardell goes out to Hollywood, signs up with William Morris, the biggest agency. Out in Hollywood. America decides to do their version of Bob's Four House. So he goes from Big Break with Jim Davidson and John Virgo to the American version of Bob's Four House. And there's a clue in the name here, which is called Trump Card . And it is filmed at Trump Castle Casino in Las Vegas. And the first episode, absolutely front and centre in it, is Donald Trump. But yeah, so Terry Mard ell went straight from pot as many balls as you can to the future president of the United States. Wow. Yeah. Oh I really need to see an episode of Trump Card. Of Trump Card. That's not one of the casinos you somehow can drive to bankrupt Yes. Oh it is one of the ones. Yeah, it's now the I think it's the golden nugget now. I think. Yeah. Uh so yeah, Big Break is back. Uh it's I've read a couple of things saying, Oh, it's just gonna be trick shots, which is not it's gonna be exactly pretty much exactly the same as the previous one. Quizzes and and and potting a be a bit different. Uh and genuinely I think how lovely, you know, I'm looking forward to seeing it already. And it but the reason they're commissioning is because it gives it's it's a really great thing to go with their commitment to snooker and so they might as well have a have a punt at it. And uh if I was Paddy, uh I think Paddy's the perfect person for it. I would not have been. But uh but he definitely is and Henry will be great too. Even though he's on the first ever, ever episode of Big Break, Stephen Hendry. Yeah, doing very badly as well. Oh really. I'm sure he'll be the first to admit. Yeah. Okay. That's really fun. Okay, well I'm looking forward to that. And that's Big Break. See how that works. We're now going to talk about the Cannes Film Festival, which is happening now. You'll have a film festival in the case of Cannes, all films from all the way around the world are submitted. The festival programmers pick a small number, some of which are shown in competition , some out of competition, and those are and the ones in competition are judged. And at the same time, there are lots of other screenings of things, not all finished, some partially finished, independent stuff that needs more funding or needs distribution or whatever. So it's sort of an art festival and sort of a kind of meat market for films. And in Cannes, they have a festival director who's been there 25 years. He's called Of course they do. You know, and he's got lots of views about things like he won't show Netflix films if they because of the theatrical window this is the business of thing. Yeah, well the to kind of keeping their art kind of non-globalised to some degree that to a percentage of it. They love French films in France. Yeah. I mean it's mad. They don't even know what they've got. Like I even like French food in France they call it They call it food food. It's so odd. It's common thing I couldn't round while I was there. The thing about the Cannes film festival is that it sort of signified and I know you're thinking, were the Oscars not fifteen minutes ago? And in a way they were because they were in March, but it sort of in this period in May signified the start of the awards campaign and the sort of prestige economy. And also you would have maybe a big splashy premiere of a Hollywood film that's not in competition, but it's kind of like, oh, here we are, we're gonna show um a a Star Wars film or a um something else. And you might and you might also have people such as Quentin Tarantino showing a big film and then it will win one of their big prizes and you you can sort of feel like oh the here the the juggernaut begins. Um but this year is notable for something quite shocking. There are no US studio films and even people like Focus Features A twenty four are not taking any films. Film Festival Yeah, it's different in French though. Um and uh another thing I can get my head around. Um so it's they haven't even got a sort of splashy premiere tied to release. I mean they've definitely not got the Odyssey, yeah. Uh which we know that's coming out. They haven't the Spielberg film, so all these people have big ties to Cannes. They haven't got um the Alexander Iniurita film with Tom Cruise, Todd Digger that's coming out later in the year. They haven't got any of these things. So why is the question? Um and the answer really is because of risk. Um it's May. The studios are now so in a kind of completely connected online world. It is so different. I mean, I've talked to people who take things to can and just said, it is so stressful, you know immediately whether your thing that you've lavished all your love and attention, whatever, and money crucially, which we'll get to, has worked. You can just feel it. It's in the air, it's in the response. People are just saying, no, that's not gonna run and it' its's you know, May and you somehow got to get your stars out there if they're on an awards campaign, all the way till next March. So it's a tough school. So yeah, studios mostly want to keep their awards movies to the f final third of the year. So you might Ven the Venice Film Festival is in September, so that's better. But if you look at last year, you know, there was real potential for damage films that people uh can films that people thought were going to be big, like um Die My Love or Eddington, they sort of something went wrong when and and people thought, Oh, these aren't going to work. And there's something about the critics, the French critics particularly, but also lots of the critic by the way, everything gets a sort of, as you know, a ridiculously longstanding evasion, which is completely, completely meaningless. The critics, however, are meaningful and they can be quite harsh. So so it used to be that the absolute key thing in uh all these industries is buzz, and this was absolutely the place to get early buzz. But now we're not quash, you got' theve thing, it's it's can . It costs a million to take a film to to to can. And that's just that's just the popcorn. Yeah. You've got to stage the premiere, you've got to take the stars and all the people around them, you've got to have all their travel, accommodation, you've got to have the marketing around it because it can't just sort of happen there have to be other stuff happening. Jet ski trips. Yeah, yeah, the various things. Yeah, get me off this yacht helicopters. Yes. That sort of thing. But there's so much now that can go wrong. If you look at the Berlin Festival earlier this year where lots of journalists were asking stars to re to reveal their positions on Israel and Gaza, you know, why would you not retreat, which is what they're all doing now, into an arena where it is far more that's far more protective of your talent and you're much more able to control it and your overall investment in a film, which is quite an expensive activity, is protected. So it's all about control. You know, and to some extent you'll say, oh well, maybe then these festivals can become what they were, which is that and that's what people, you know, because they have to find a positive. D do they become things that f surface great international films and celebrate European and international films. But actually they do need the studios, but they're gonna have to find a way of dealing with something that you can't something can't derail it. The one thing that's in their favour is that star s have to be beyond persuaded that they don't want this. To say because the star wants their movie to start in either Cannes or Venice, and they sort of prefer Cannes because it's just m it's just the sort of in their head, the primo brand. There's no particular reason for that. But like l but legacy. Yeah, legacy. They grew up watching people at the can something like that. And then you you have to try and dissuade them of the fact that they really, really want to be put in an uncontrolled environment where their film could be it might not be c since the film won't be probably coming out till October, that you don't want to be put in that environment where you could say the wrong thing or you could just not say anything and your silence would be violence or whatever it is. It's usually pretty easy to persuade actors to do something they don't want to do. Yes. But I think the fact that everybody has managed to do it this time around. You know, and what they do do when they when they bring them out in a different way and they don't go over other these big festivals is that they bring them out and they have control you know, there's a controlled access. And I think there's a fundamental difference between allowing critics to see the film and just say what they think about them. And people honestly expecting people to have a view on every little piece of g or big piece of global politics or everything that's going on in a country at the time or everything. To have to making everyone have a view of this in a press conference in your film about whatever it is. Then you gotta hear what Elon Musk has got to say about it. Yeah. Yeah. Just ask them about rockets. Yeah. But the basic yeah, the bas the basic principle is if you really care about something, you spend a long time on it on it and you're worried about whether it's good or not, do not choose the first group of people you show it to to be French. Because they will not be polite if they don't like it. Well no I mean the it's it's the all the international critics kind of there's a sort of pride in lots of that. Um but it's just a long haul. The award season now is so those campaigns go on for nine months and if you start now, they's sort of going on for uh uh ten months. Yeah. But it but yeah, so they're trying to control for while you know the film is in your screening rooms and your edit and with your PR, you can control, control, control, control . The second it is out in the world, whatever you planned, whatever momentum you've planned, that can be derailed. And so try and derail it as late as possible in the process? Yes. Or or or it's less likely to be der they're quite sort of down and dirty the festivals in some way. And i you've got hu lots and lots of rooms and people are sitting on a stage and people could ask you of anything. But I I just think it's become a matter of risk. It's it's so expensive to do all these things. Never mind the cost of taking it there. The film itself is so expensive and it's whether you just want to expose it to being torn down in many cases s eight months before release, never mind before the award ceremony or whatever it is you think you're going for. Leave that to one side. It's the idea that you just can't you c you just can't sustain it off that and it sort of falls off the screen. I'd rather launch in Venice. Uh I uh for people I know who goes to them say it's it's so much that can is awful and it's so much better. Yeah. Um and it's a m it's a much more lovely affair, yeah. Um we've covered a lot of ground this week, haven't we? Can we both I think we're both gonna give the same recommendation this week, which we did last week with Legends, which by the way have now finished and is even better than I said it was last week. But this week Rivals is back. We can't recommend anything else other than that. Actually, no, I can already I okay, first of all, yes, we recommend Rivals. I will recommend uh the ni video for the new Harry Stars single uh Dance No More. There's a lot of dancing in it. What happens in it? A lot of dancing. Okay, but you like it. I like it. Okay, I'm gonna be doing that as soon as we finish. Not dancing, watching Harry Styles dance. Yeah. You can't compete. No. I don't dance after I'm no Dominic Sandbrook, but I don't dance immediately after a podcast. Right. We will be back on Thursday with a QA. Um, then tomorrow, the first in a special bonus series. I'm very excited about this. It's so cool. Okay. I am talking to James Kanagasorium, who is a brilliant pollster, brilliant at politics, but also because he's plugged into all the currents and opinions and things that shape our culture. We're going to be talking I'm doing a series with him, talking to him uh about six absolutely fascinating topics. And the one that's coming out tomorrow, and everyone can listen to this, this first one, is about trad wives and trad wife content. Amazing. It's really interesting. There's so much stuff in there that you will like anyway, Richard. Yeah, so that's going to be for the members, but the first one, just to because it's absolutely for everybody, see if you can uh like and I have yet to hear it, but I've heard you talk about it and I'm very, very excited to hear it as well. Okay. Um so if you want to join, it's the rest isentertainment.com. Everyone can listen to that tomorrow. Otherwise, see you on Thursday. See you on Thursday.