Realism in Medical Procedural Television

The Rest is Entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now can I tell you something cool that Octopus Energy do if you ring them and you have to be put on hold? Because they know who you are, they know your birthday. The Hold Music is the best selling single from the year that you were fourteen. That's quite cool, isn't it? Yes. Well I love this. Exactly. I've looked into it for you. Do you want to know the best selling single in the year that you turned fourteen? So this would be your old music on Octopus Energy. It is Yaz, the only way is up. What do we think to that? Well Yaz and the plastic population. Yes and the plastic population. Oh of course. You know, I need to ring it to Octopus now and just listen to it. It's uh I you you can choose to say, Oh, I don't want to have any whole music at all. Absolutely, yeah, you can you can do whatever you want. But what animals, what monsters okay, it might be a really bad song, but what monsters don't choose to listen? I have to say that. Yeah. I love that they do. I hope we're gonna do this for me in another episode. But then w but then we find out if I Yeah, I think I'm considerably older than you, aren't I? Not that much. What? It's like two, three years, isn't it? Yeah, you'll be saying uh and So we all love a holiday, right, Richard? I think we all do. So if you're thinking about that big dream holiday, might I suggest Rio de Janeiro? I have always fancied Rio de Janeiro. Are you telling me that Lufthansa fly to Rio de Janeiro? I most certainly am. You can enjoy Lufthansa's easy and tailored service from takeoff to touchdown, and then you'll be ready to enjoy all that Rio has to offer as soon as you're there. I genuinely would like to go to Rio. One of the areas I loved. And because I've I've felt I've touched Rio. I really, really want to go. Kieran's been to Rio twice, but for the carnival, both times. I still definitely, definitely want to go for the carnival. You can hang out on the world famous Copicabana and Ipanema Beaches. Marvel at Christ the Redeemer and Sugar Loaf Mountain while sipping on a Kaiparina, of course. Not to forget their world famous music, spirit of celebration, and football. Those samba rhythms will take you away. And so will Lufthansa with an individual premium service from the moment you book it's maximum comfort above the clouds. Say yes to Rio de Janeiro with Lufthansa and discover more at lufthancer.com This episode is brought to you by American Express. Wouldn't it be fantastic if when you bought something you love you could get a little extra out of it? With books and stuff I always try and do like a little bonus chapter or something like that or an interview on the audiobook, you'll always have an interview. When they used to have like secret tracks on the ends of albums, I don't want to sound too old, but something like that, it just feels like I pay my money already. I've got the thing I bought. Here's something extra. Any of those things, a little extra that you weren't quite expecting. Well Amex makes that a reality. You can earn points or cash back on the things you buy and use them on things you love with no expiration date. You can use Amex at more places than ever, so there's always plenty Preferred rewards gold credit card representative eighty-five point eight percent APR variable, annual fee applies after first year cash,back cards also available, minimum spend required to earn cashback, subject to status 18 plus, rates may vary, T's and C's apply. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Restors Entertainment Questions and Answers Edition. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman. Hello listeners. Hello Marina. Hello Richard, how are you? I I'm very well. We're gonna be answering questions. Uh we've also got a couple of celebrities answering questions as well today. That's the thing on this show. If you send in questions, occasionally we put your questions really to uh some quite impressive people. I think we've outdone ourselves this week. Yes. More on that later. Before that you're gonna have to listen to boring old ass answers and questions, I'm afraid. Hit me with one. You ready to go straight in? Danny has a question. Danny says in a statement made by Brazilian footballer Jorginho, I tell you what, it's not often we start with that, is it? His claim that Chapel Rowan security guard made his daughter cry while on holiday. This story's been all over the papers. After she seemed excited, they were both staying at the same resort. In your opinion, should you always just leave a celebrity alone? There are so many strands to this question. I I agree, Giorginio. We loved him at Chelsea. Was an interesting advocate for this particular angle about stars and fans. The daughter is also his current partner, and actually her daughter was Jude Law, so it's actually Jorginho's daughter. Again, there's a lot of angles which we haven't got time to get into. So Jorginho is with the mother of Jude Law's one of the child Yeah. I mean he's got seven children. It is. We are gonna have no time for those celebrity answers, I'm afraid. They're in Sao Paulo at Chapel Rowan's performing that night and actually the daughter's got tickets. They happen to be in the same fancy hotel. And the daughter just because they say, Oh, she's over there, you know. The daughter doesn't confront it, she's eleven, she's also the most incredibly adorable little pick the picture of her. She just walks past the table. Yeah. That was like me with um Dennis Healy on Haywisley Station in nineteen seventy nine. I was just walking past going, yeah, it's him. It's him. He was Dennis Healy was my chapel Rowan. That should be the title of the autobiography. I then suddenly Dennis Healy's bodyguard pushes me onto the tracks. He didn't really. Well, a bodyguard who is obviously assumed to be Chapel Rowan's bodyguard comes up and says to the mother of this girl, you need to control your daughter, you don't do that, you never behave like that. The girls in tears, the whole thing, they she doesn't end up going to the Chaperone show that night. Chaperone's then since posted saying this bodyguard was not working for me. I kind of really entered the story because, like what, there's just a sort of random mercenary wandering around the hotel breakfast. But hang on a minute because this bodyguard, it's quite interesting. This is the bodyguard who was the one who was supposed to be guarding Kim Kardashian when she had that awful genuinely horrific experience in Paris, when she's the they break in, they tie her up and they steal all the jewelry. Now this guy really needs to go back to bodyboard school bodyguard school because he first of all he did n't check the Insta, which is like a key part of bodyguard duties nowadays. She'd posted and it included the location. Yeah, posted pictures of the jewelry. He'd gone out in an out to a nightclub with Courtney and Kendall. I think the insurance company sued him personally in the end. So I the bit I haven't got yet is what on earth this freelance mercenary bodyguard is doing wandering around the hotel. Redemption arc. And maybe trying to get in on her security team. Anyway, she 's people have a th a thing about Chapo Roan because she said, I don't want fans coming up to me. And lots of things that are very s symp sympathizable with, if that's a a phrase, in the modern era where people just feel like they have this parasocial relationship and you feel like you're never off and people do have f far fewer boundaries. So she's it's really bad for her reputation this and you can see that she's really and she's tried to find the hotel to say this person wasn't working with us. Because I think it's it makes her look dreadful because of things we already know about her and because of beliefs that some people just have like, you know, we pay your wages and you should be available to us at all times. Yeah. So in terms I don't think the girl for Jorginho's stepdaughter did anything wrong whatsoever in walking past the table, and I don't think any celebrity would would really think that. People do have this very, very weird way of behaving with celebrities. I mean, Billie Eilish said she was approached at a funeral for f selfies. Adele just talked about being in the gym. Selena Gomez, who has lupus and requires various sort of hospital stays, has been approached by people in hospital. And you know, we go back to the days of the bad old days of the naughty and Britney Spears and people would just hang around hospital entrances. It's very odd what people do. So many celebrities love people coming up to it it can obviously become overwhelming, but a lot of people love to be told , I love you, you're fantastic. That they are in the entertainment industry and I have to say that they often do like that. If they're having their breakfast, she didn't wrong. She just walked past the table. But I there are there is a time and a place. Yeah. If you if you want basic etiquette, you can almost always go certainly if you by the way, if you just recognise someone from TV, do not go up to them. Right. If you do aren't you like uh like that you just you know, just let people go about the day. If you're uh if you if you've you know, for example, if you've watched some show or you've been to see them live or you bought a book or anything like that, you it is absolutely your right you can go and say hello, just want it uh you know, it's nice to see you in the street. Absolutely you can do that. The only times you wouldn't do it if someone is someone won't stop me when I was running for a train . That's that yeah. Because of course you have to stop. You can't you can't stop. So don't do that. Uh yes, if someone's with their kids and they're all chatting away, that's just but again it's common sense. But I w I would say don't even worry about it. Ninety nine percent of the times that anyone's ever approached me or anyone's ever approached people I've worked with, it's you people people instinctively know to do it. But if you do not really know who somebody is, you gotta just the less someone knows you the more of your time they will take up. That is for sure. Yeah. But but yeah, you do get people go, wha w sorry, where where do I know you're from? But I'm literally I am walking down the street. You know, I get it's you know, it's Gol, can I get a selfie? And you go, this is terrible. You say if if uh some I can't remember who told me this, but they said if someone asks you for a selfie just say if you can tell me my name, you can have a selfie I think Claudia Winkelman signed loads of o autographs to Vina McCall just to make them happy. Yeah. Because they don't want her. They just wanted Davina. So she would I don't sp I think it happens quite so much now, but back in the day she signed a lot of Davina McCall. But yeah that that's the thing, is it isn't it's nice for everybody. But yeah, it it's if you don't know who some if you don't know someone's name, don't approach them. That would be a good thing But weird bodyguarding. I mean bodyguarding's become so odd because so many of them are now because there's a whole layer of we've talked lots about this, there's a whole new layer of celebrities that need bodyguards. So, how many of these people are out live streaming TikTokers, you know, YouTubers? You know where they are. If you saw Louis through his manosphere documentary, you see that HS Tiki Toki, who by the way, in my view, is a kind of marauding presence. He's the one who apparently needs various bodyguards down in Puerto Bonus in M Mobe while he's going around uh sort of talking to women on the street who have not asked him to come up to them. So there's this whole layer of new people who want protecting. It's also a status thing that people are saying, or I want one for Saturday night. Because it looks like it's a way of being the big I am, you know, there's my bodyguard. You don't need a bodyguard and I don't want who's know who you are. But there's a whole layer of people. So always in the the and some of bodyguards have become stars themselves and become part because if you're live streaming, you've just got to have this crew around you and they all become part of the content in the end. And that's happened with so many YouTubers. So I would say that there's a now a lot more bodyguards than there ever were and clearly some of them just are wandering round hotel breakfasts just trying to look proactive. I can't think of any other explanation. That's weird. We don't know his name, right? We do. He's called Pascal Duvier. Is he? I should say he's actually come out and conceded he wasn't working for her. And he genuinely genuinely was just like freelance bodyguarding round the buffet. Wow. Not his exact words, but that's what he was doing. He was in a dining room in a hotel. Was he looking after someone else? It it's not he didn't say that at all. In the statement, he doesn't say anything about that. He just says I wasn't anything to do with it. I wonder whether so much pressure has been brought to bear on him and he's been told he'll never work in this industry again. But as I say, he will because so many people need them. Didn't someone describe him as the forest gump of celebrity drama? He's much more of an active agent in these moments, I think, because he clearly the Paris thing was a huge failing with Kim Kardashian and here again A tiny failing. As my children say, I didn't ask What are you doing? I didn't ask you to bodyguard. A question from John Hunter here. I've never seen Titanic and I never will. I know how it ends. Whenever I say this out loud, people shout at me. What film and TV series have you never and will never see. God, he's absolutely right. And I'm terri I am terrible with this. There's lots of info. I hadn't seen Titanic. No. For example. But again, I sort of feel like I have seen it because I've seen like a million clips. Like if you if you want to do a joke about Titanic, I'll I'll know what it's about. They'll be on the prow of the ship or paint me like your French girls. I mean all this stuff. Yeah, I know. I've heard all that stuff. You speak Titanic. Yeah, I speak Titanic. Funnily enough, I had a lot more um blind spots for a married Ingrid because Ingrid would start talking to me about um you know oh think about the sound of music I'd be and I go, Oh I've never seen the sound of music as you'd be like I'm sorry? I go, well I've never seen the sound of Music. It is actually a deal breaker. You have never seen The Sound of Music. Well no. Don't worry. Would be my point. Yeah, exactly. And she would say, Well, like growing up, I say, Well d did you watch the nineteen seventy nine FA Cup final when Annan Sunderland scored on the last minute? No, you didn't. Well that's what I was doing. I that's the stuff that that I was watching. Anyway, so I listen, spoiler alert, I have now seen the sound of music. Culturally she completes you as well as in so many other ways. Absolutely And the Sound of Music, like all these things, I thought, well I know this film. I've seen because I've seen every single clip of it. And then you watch it, you go, Oh my god, this is amazing. This is why people like Sound of Music, right? There's a reason that some of these iconic films are iconic because it's got all those clips you've seen, but in between it you're like, Oh, I didn't know this was gonna happen in this film. So that I hadn't sounded music now I have, I hadn't seen Top Gun, which for Ingrid was almost I think was even worse. She put that right almost immediately. I think it was almost like third date. Yeah. Uh we had to go see Top Gun. And again, Wow that what a great third date. Yeah, it really was great. At a drive-in. Um and it was uh so I saw that and again I thought I'd seen all of it because I've seen so many clips of it. And that well, you get to see all the in between. I see something different every time. Exactly. It's very, very multi-layered. Um, West Side Story. I hadn't seen. No, I have seen it. Mary Poppins, I hadn't seen. Now I have seen it. So where are my actual blind spots now? I would say almost every single Disney movie I have not seen and will never see. It just doesn't speak to me. And when my kids were growing up the the Pixar stuff was all coming out. You know, so, you know, you had Monsters Inc. and you had Toy Story. You know, it was absolutely the golden age of that. So th those were the things that, you know, I watched with the kids and I you know, I'd never watched the um Disney when I was growing up. I will never watch Disney at all . TV-wise, this isn't I've got an Ingrid one and a non-Ingrid one. So I had never watched the Sopranos. right But I had never watched the Sopranos for a different reason which is not oh god, I'm not interested in watching the Sopranos. I knew that I was getting incredibly excited to watch the Sopranos at some point, but I knew I wanted to watch it with somebody and in my head a tiny bit of me was going, I wonder if that person will show up. And very, very early on on on a date with Ingrid we're talking about TV and I said, talk about the Sopranos. She goes, Do you know what? I've never seen the Sopranos and the reason I never seen it is I keep I want to watch it with someone And then we both agreed we wouldn't start watching it until after we got married. Which is what we just said now we are now watching uh we we are now watching the sopranies. But it was absolutely that one of we we were we were saving it for the right person. Uh and we found the one person. Lovely. I know people who save things think thinking when I'm really down, I'm gonna have the whole of that 'cause I know I'll love it. And I'm I've got that as you know, banked away and I know p lots of people who do that. But a T V thing I've never seen, I suspect I never will now. For reasons I can't really think of other than I think it would be a big investment now and the time is gone. Game of Thrones . Never seen it, don't think I ever will see it. Have you have you got any? Those I'm trying to think what they are. They're not immediately obvious to me. This is different, but like him I just to go back to John's point about I never seen it and I know and I never will, I know how it ends. John, I'm not besmirching this way, but it does slightly remind me of Michael Owen's funny thing, like Michael Owen won't watch films. Is that right? You remind me of this. Michael Owen won't watch films because it's just people pretending and it's not real. It didn't Michael Owen. So what's the point? Yeah. It didn't so yeah. Anyway, it slightly reminded me of that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Titanic is not about the ending, it's about the craft. And by the craft I don't mean the Titanic . Because that sunk. Yes. Remember? Sorry. I was actually thinking about the craft, Nev Campbell um horror movie, which but you probably haven't seen. I have not seen I'm not sure I've seen it. Have you seen the little mix video for black magic, which is basically a pure read across? Little mix of like girls in high school and they're kind of nerds and then they drink a magic potion and then they everybody falls in love with them and they're kind of they become the cool girls. Which is that's Nev Campbell's the craft. That that's the craft, but done ripped off as a little mix an homage by Little Mix. If I were to watch one of them I should probably just do that because it'd be great. Yeah God that's easier isn't uh anyway th,ank you, John on email. Do do send us in stuff that you have never watched, particularly if there's an unusual reason for it, or or you just you refuse. Because quite often I always think that thing if if one person tells you to watch something, you're like, nah. If five people tell you you to watch something, watch it. If twelve people tell you to watch something, you think, oh no, I watch this thing everyone's talking about. So it's it's it's that sweet spot. But do do let us know if you have uh so I I would say that the Disney and Game of Thrones are my are my two big blind spots and I don't think I don't think I would ever fix them. Let's go to a break and then after our break we will get to those celebrity answers, which I'm excited for. Some big celebrities as well. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Lufthansa. So we all love a holiday, right, Richard? I think we all do. So if you're thinking about that big dream holiday, might I suggest Rio de Janeiro? I have always fancied Rio de Janeiro. Are you telling me that Lufthansa fly to Rio de Janeiro? I most certainly am. You can enjoy Lufthansa's easy and tailored service from takeoff to touchdown and then you'll be ready to enjoy all that Rio has to offer as soon as you're there. I genuinely would like to go to Rio. Buenos Aires I loved. And because I've I felt I've touched Aries. Karen's been to Rio twice, but for the carnival, both times. I still definitely, definitely want to go for the carnival. You can hang out on the world famous Copacabana and Ipanema beaches. Marvel at Christ the Redeemer and Sugar Loaf Mountain while sipping on a Kaiparina, of course. Not to forget their world famous music, spirit of celebration, and football. Those samba rhythms will take you away. And so will Lufthansa with an individual premium service from the moment you book. It's maximum comfort above the clouds. Say yes to Rio de Janeiro with Lufthansa and discover more at Lufthansa.com Welcome back everybody. Now we promise you celebrities, who is the lucky listener who's had their question answered by a celebrity? Alex Booth, your question has been answered by a big celebrity. Now Alex Booth has this question How do actors know when it is time to say goodbye to a show? Is it tough to know when to go out on a high. Literally, there's sort of his show about that, which is the comeback, the Lisa Coudrow show that's uh currently on HBO. That's someone who finished on the you know the highest profile show of all time. So we just thought maybe, rather than us answer it to Alex, we would get Lisa Kudrow to answer in also 'cause of it's about the comeback, Michael Patrick King, who's one of the writers on that show, who has interesting things to say about when writers want to leave shows as well. So Lisa and Michael here answering that question. I mean for some actors, yeah, they wanna go out on a high. And um you know, on Friends I guess, yeah, we went out when we were still I think number one or behind number two, behind Survivor or something. But yeah, I think also for some people they feel like it's the stories are getting strained, you know, and and the writers also have a say in when it's done because they feel the stories are getting strained. So I know for us there was an agreement. And on the comeback, yeah, Michael and I, we kind of sh are a brain when it comes to this show. It's true. I mean, the the the thing is, it does come from the writing first. Lisa could I believe Lisa could play Valerie forever, but as writers, we created it and we we really like that it's been kind of a dense experience and we wouldn't want to water it down. It became the the the brand of the show that we come back and then go. And this time we're not coming back. We're just here to enjoy the last comeback. Yeah. Now it's a full piece. Right? It would have been weird if it was two seasons and then okay, that's not a thing. But a third makes it a trilogy and a and a whole piece. Also I think it's important to as writing, you you leave your main character where you want her to be. And we're both very, very happy about where Valerie landed. Yeah. Oh so I mean, you know how much I love this show. The comeback, yeah, that's your absolute favourite, right? So right, it is now a trilogy. It's really interesting. And there's stuff about it coming from writers as well. Yeah. Because sometimes you're not in kind of lockstep as to when it's over. I you know, I know uh when they w came to do succession, which was obviously at the absolute peak of everything, it was such a sort of huge and culturally s you know, celebrated show and of course they could have done more. And I r um I remember you know, Jesse talking about it saying, you know, I I I I started Jesse Armstrong who created it saying, I started thinking, could we go around again? But actually I felt no, we can't do this and then have a fifth season. We'll do we'll finish it here because having talked it through. And it's really good when people just feel like they're not they're not gonna just flog it for the sake of it because it's just this huge behemoth. Also, I know other people who have been uh and I know that there are such shows where actors you see in the later series of it, I sometimes I wasn't quite sure what was happening in later series of something like V, where I was thinking, I'm not sure that was your original character, but actors want to do something different and they feel like they've done the same things many, many times. It's like funnily enough, we're on season nine of The American Office at the moment and Ed Helms' character is completely different. You think, oh, I don't know about this. But I think Lisa Coudrey's point is interesting. This if you're an actor leaving a show or ending a show, uh or a writer ending a show is two different things. As as an actor you are very, very visible on that. You know, you are literally and you're giving of yourself emotionally all the time. And as an actor, you think, but I do want to do the next thing, I do want to do the next thing, and I don't want people to get bored with me. So that's a an an an interesting place to be. But as a writer, this is a not always necessarily true, but quite often as a writer of a show, you have been working an awful lot longer and an awful lot harder on that show than an actor has, 'cause an actor will come in and they'll they work their socks off. But a writer has been doing this for ye yearsars and and years and years and years and will often understand the limitations of a character has been pushed to exactly where they can be pushed to, and they have to do something else. So I think usually if a show is a is a hit , there's always pressure on you to keep doing it. There's always pressure on you to keep taking the money. And especially in American TV, the money goes up and up and up and up and up. But good actors and good writers usually go I've taken this as far as I'm gonna take it. And you could tell with Michael Patrick King talking there, the understanding that as a writer there was a story to be told, he felt it had been told . Lisa as the actor feels it has been told as well. It doesn't matter what they offer you to do another series. It's like writing a book. I've got to the end of the book. Let's close the book. You know, it's like Claudia and Tess leaving strictly in it. The dream is you do it together and th that's not some yeah, I think that's definitely the case. Yeah, they they they do say never quit the hit, but I I I think I think sometimes that's wrong. I think sometimes you have to just kind of go you have to know when to leave the stage, right? Right. How about a question um actually for you rather than for Lisa Goodrow? Is that all right? They go, I really like it. Isabelle has a question for you. Last week we talked about McGuffins. Isabel said, I love your discussion about McGuffins, but what are your favourite examples of Chekhov's gun in movies? Can you explain to people what Chekhov's gun is? Yeah, Chekhov's gun in screenwriting and movie writing is anything that's introduced and you that you see, any element, it's not just sort of there randomly, it's it has a point, and that point is sort of paid off later. And it comes from originally the the phrase Chekhov's gun. Chekhov said you cannot have a gun on stage and have it not go off. And it's relates to the seagull. Again, I'm gonna do masses of spoilers throughout all of this. And so the you know, the point of that whole thing is if something is introduced in a film, a piece of information, a piece of backstory, an object, and it seems to bear no relation to anything that happens from that moment on, at the end of the film, it will become important. So the the idea would be never ever show a gun if it is not really going to be fired. And in something like Sean of the Dead, which where it's a literal gun, the pub they go to all the time is called the Winchester and there's a Win Yeah. It's absolute basic tenant of any if if you w interested at all in either watching or writing is if something crops up, if something is mentioned, if something is even alluded to, it will later be used. I mean that that you you don't waste anything. You can't just sort of go off on the kind of flights of fancy. Anything you do has to sort of be drawn back in at some point. And Chekhos gun is is is is sort of is the term we use for that, which is don't introduce something that then disappears. I really love it when it's done brilliantly, so to think of top three was quite hard. I'm including the sh I mean I have to say Isabel does doesn't ask for top three. It's interesting. Favorite examples. Favorite examples, exactly . I know exactly now you've been institutionalized. I've absolutely got to you. She's absolutely allowing you to be open ended about it. You've got to be. Well I have mentioned shorter than it. I'm gonna have to mention another the next Edgar Wright and Simon Pegg and Nick Frost, all those guys. Hot fuzz, where it's so so many things, it it's ridiculous. It's almost sort of it's a joke about it, really. Every single little thing that you see at the start in or in Act One is paid off in Act Three. Again, things I've watched recently, which are somehow top of my mind, I would say the pinboard in the usual suspects, I'll leave it at that. But I think ultimately I have to say, because I love it so much, I think it's so brilliant, is Back to the Future. That wh the whole of Back to the Future, which I watched again recently, you know, it was a film that it was so hard for them to get off the ground. They've tried so many different ways of getting that film off the ground. It's directed by Bob Zemekas and it's written by him and a guy called Bob Gale . And it there were all these raunchy teen com edies at the times, kind of racy things, and it wasn't like that at all. And anyway, they managed to get it made. If you've got time, just go and watch the first scene again. Every single thing in that first scene, before you even see a human, you see someone on the news talking about the stolen um not uranium, plutonium, there are all the clocks. There's so many things in the first scene before you've seen any human at all. Save the clock to all these things that happen, everything is paid off. It is so satisfying. It is so much more sophisticated than the raunchy teen comedies that were almost preventing it being made. It is and the way and it's done in such a light-touched way. And I remember watching it in cinemas and thinking, oh that's so cool. And you knew you could watch it all fitting back together as a puzzle in such a beautiful way and it feels so light touched, even though it's quite a complicated plot to get people to uns you know, to understand th those kind of temporal loops and wormholes and all that sort of thing. Even things like the family photos where he's fading out of them. That you know, that becomes that's a sort of check of card and it's also a TikTok on the whole like can I s can I make all these other things work together in concert to save the to save my family and save the film and save my existence. I I f I think it's absolutely brilliant that and it's so accessible and so mainstream. And when you're watching it, you're not in any doubt that, like, oh, there was a point to that, someone's saying, save the clock to our handing the leaflet. All of it has a point. And I love it. It's so fun and it's uh it's just joyful. But it is Chekhovskun is is is the perfect thing. If you're watching things, you really want to understand how things are put together. Is you know like you know, when whenever someone sort of at the end is tied up by a vid and you think how are they gonna get out of this? And then suddenly a Lasso comes and he goes, Oh my god, they talked about going to radio school. Yeah. They literally talked about it in like the f and I thought it was just a bit of conversation and stuff. It it sort of actually spoils almost all movies. When you when you realise that every single thing is gonna come back. Every s you think of course that's gonna they they have s you cannot leave a loop opened . But no mat when it's done so lightly that you you you're not really aware of it happening and you suddenly but also it feels impossible that all of those things could be paid off. And it feels impossible actually when you're watching the first even three minutes of the first scene of Ba Back to the Future that all of those things can be completely uh integral to the plot. Yeah. It's like how lovely it is and it sort of shows you when it's set and it shows you kind of how people get through the day that um you know, Andy Dufresne has a poster of Rita Hayworth on his wall. You think, oh that's's cute, it got a picture of Rita Hayworth. And you know, it's not kind of and then oh the oh there's it the poster has changed to Brigitte Bardot and that just it just shows that you know time is moving on. And you know, anyone who's seen Short Shap Redemption knows that is not what is happening there. They're sort of Chekhov's guns. But just those things where at the end where you think, well, how on earth has this happened? And you go, that thing they mentioned. Yeah. Oh my God, it was that thing that they mentioned ages ago. I've had so many screenwriters and writers with uh such a long WhatsApp argument this week about what a McGuffin is, by the way. Oh my god, don't talk to me about it. So yeah, uh I've I had to I've had a tight five hours with hearing the batteries. I've got a um can I can I tell you that we found a form of words in the end that we all agreed with that as as to what a McGuffin is. Oh by the way, and everyone was talking about Kiss Me Deadly, which is that which is the Mickey Okay, this this is acceptable. The McGuffin is the bit that explains the motivation but doesn't need to be in and of itself explained. There we go. That's all we've got. I mean we're now gonna have to spend the next week defining what a Chekhov's gun is.. Yeah, yes I mean I see Alfred Hitchcock was not on on your group. He was not if he'd been on your group, he would have had George and George Lucas would have said a different thing too. But again, I'm sad he's not on your group. He's not he's on your group. Spielbaggers of course. Yeah okay. Question about medical accuracy from Nardia. What are the bonuses and negatives of a medical procedural TV show trying to be so realistic? Again, listen, it's a good question. And what are we doing? We know why she's asking it. Well because literally the single most realistic medical show of all time, probably The Pit, has just started on HBO Max. So Nardia, it's a it's a really good question. We wanted to talk about it in relation to the pit, but they thought, again, why would we talk about We set out to sort of make this a love letter to first responders to talk about the work that they do and that they've been doing especially since COVID. Um and we wanted that to be uh you know, as honest a look as we possibly could make it. And we at one time had made a show that was the most accurate medical show of all time and didn't really wanna travel traveled road or touch hallowed ground . So we were looking to do something as as different as we possibly could. So taking the music out and really focusing on just one day of a shift and really getting into the minutia of what's happening in a hospital seemed like a really great opportunity. And I think audiences are appreciating the specificity of detail. The downside is that when you come off so much like a documentary that any dramatic license you take or lapses in your storytelling become pronounced as uh as critiques. And uh so we we fall into this sort of gray area of like, well, you know, it's not a documentary, but it's as realistic as we can make a television series. Sure, you're always bucking up against reality about these cases, but oftentimes, you know, um it's that pushback that that creates the diamond uh under the pressure. You know, it's uh that's the dialogue that you arrive at because if you want two different opinions, ask two different doctors. And sometimes if you have three doctors on your writing staff and one says that would never happen, the other one says under the breath except for the time I did it And then you finally have a scene because you've got two points of view on a subject matter that's worth exploring. And of course the show he's talking about before is ER, which he also starred in, which is this amazing bloodline between these two medical procedural shows. I love I love that it's literally like being a patient and just saying, I I am gonna need a second opinion. Yeah. And how many of these things can actually happen if you've got one guy who says it's happened. Yeah, it is difficult on all of those things when you're writing them. Uh and so many people uh you know are very, very particular in writing things and thinking if it hasn't really happened, then I don't want it to be in my in my show. And there is definitely a sort of a a case for that. However, I do think that people who just do not allow any license in any of these things, just go and hang around an A and E. If that's what you want to watch. I you have to allow some. And I never get really annoyed by even if i if someone's writing s say there's been lots of things written about journalism uh over the years, of course, and you're watching a newspaper office, the people who like go straight in line and say that would never happen, it's like, okay, I'm so interested that you'll now care about accuracy. But that but really, you see something set in a tabloid, and like all these people come on and say that would never happen. It's like, okay, come on, we'll do you know, and I've worked in a tabloid, so be fair. I do think that I never bother sort of saying that because there has to be some Yeah, exactly. And you must feel in your books. Exactly. You have to could it happen? Great. And if it could happen, what is the most interesting? What is the most funny? What is the most dramatic version of it happening and that's what you try and do. Um just on a sidebar, what a dude Noah Wiley is. So cool. Wow, what a career as well. And we've spoken about before, but the pit really is is extraordinary. And it's it's a it's Well listen, that's worked. So