Sky Buying ITV and Industry Consolidation

The rest is entertainment is presented by octopus energy. Now we're going to be talking about an expression which I hadn't heard till seven seconds ago, which is someone getting their flowers. Can you tell me what that means? Well, it means like you've been around a long time, but people suddenly think, hang on a second, you're amazing and you should be recognized. So you're finally getting yourew you're your flowers and you're being garlanded. Now I would say someone like this is Someone like Jean Smartt who plays the lead in hacks. She plays Deborah Vance. Okay, Jean Smart is extraordinary. She did a huge amount of TV and stage work and there was a sense that she was sort of always brilliant. But then this one role came along, Deborah Vance and Hcks. They literally just give her the Emmy every year N. get She gets her flowers every year. She gets her Emmy every year. As we always talk about Octopus' customer service, your counts are run by about ten or twelve people. you've got a small team. They know who you are Yes, and they are permitted to send flowers every week to a customer who might just be going through something, whatever it is. So they can recognise it's not an apology, it's just because someone was going through something and you get your flowers. Another example of they seem to do business in a very interesting and customer focused way Imagine if Jean Smart is an octopus customer, might get her flowers twice. Yeah, every week This episode is brought to you by EasyJet. You must have had that moment when you're watching a film, but you completely tune out the plot and start daydreaming about the location instead. The bright Mediterranean colours on screen suddenly make the British weather look even greyer. 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Every good burger needs a layer of perfectly melty cheese and thick rich ketchup. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz and Kraft Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me, Marina High. And me, Richard Osmond. Hello, Marina. How are you? Yeah, you know, like everyone. It's Monday morning, That's when we record. and I've had like one hour sleep even bother asking me for my recommendations at the end of this because it is Tournament football all day long, all night long. I mean, for it to be one AM and then to be moved to two AM. if it had been seven PM like this suggested, can you imagine the ratings by the end of that game? I'm actually fascinated to see what the ratings were.t I'm looking forward to that. Also this week, you went to Weembley for another very exciting event I went to Harry Styilles. I yeah, I went from the the old Conga game straight to Harry Styles. veryery difficult to work up who was the best Harry of the even. wasn't Harry Styles was Ttally amazing and emotional. I want to say a big thank you to Holly on Harry's team for looking after me and my sister like princesses And to Rachel Rachel who looks after Shenard Tway, who took a picture of me crying on my sister's shoulder during Sign of the Times. It was very emotional. It was a very, very emotional evening. I absolutely loved it. What are we talking about today? It's a pack show, Rachel because two people got married. Taylor Swift and Tvis Kelsey are now married.'re going talk about wedding says about them. And Neil from Strictlely got married as well. Yes. Yeah. I don't think we're going to have time to get to too much of that because also breaking news this morning, Sky is buying ITV. Y. And that is a big, big thing and we're going to talk about what that means. And talking at Sky, they have a new documentary out this week. It is about Yeah, we would talk about her her as a story and what she says about herself and all of us, I suppose. Shall we start with Taya. Yeah, I mean, a wedding does tell you quite a lot about who people are. A lot of this is scattered thoughts. forgive me, like I said, I've had one hour sleep, but You know when they had posted that engagement photo and she was like, your English teacher and your gym teacher are getting married. Yeah. You know, there was just no real sense at any point of like, are they actually doing it at Madison Square Garden? because it does definite seem like getting married at the office. but I think people thought maybe they'd get married privately and this would be a party afterwards. Just in case you hadn't heard, they got married in Madison Square Garden at a huge ceremony attended by a thousand really live That's a lot of we. Top celebrities. We will get on to have go on to gasol for a minute. Yeahah That's a lot of people And I think people cann' quite believe she would do it and that this maybe was a deccoin. they'd been married before. But you can see that someone that at home in a performance venue and you him to a different extent, would feel that they had control. And I mean one of the big things about how we know is that she likes control Doing it this way, I have to say, in the center of Manhattan We now know forever, never mind the gym teacher and the English teacher. There is nothing understated about them, okay? This is not Tom Holland and Zener for one second, okay You know, she needs in no fly zone. I get that It's amazing that they were able to pull it off with the level of secrecy that they have. Since it's happened, you have seen some of the guest sort of post pictures of them No one has done it, you know, they haven't done it from within the venue or meaningfully within the venue. There was an NDA until midnight, wasn't there? Yeah Th then people could say they had been there. ye but there are a number of things they weren't allowed to photograph or have, you know, because they were given their phones on the way back out so they they could do onn the way in photos and on the way out photos. but yeah I mean, it's a thing where you're just taking like Beyonce and Tom Aax's phone off them. It's fine You know, they're allose personal friends I'm sure, but we' get to that now we have to wait for it's usually about two weeks until the wedding photographer sends you the email file. So so presumably Travis will wait until they get the all the photos of the wedding and then they'll chse their favorites and hopefully share a couple on their Instagram. I feel Im sure that we will see a little bit more. I think. It's sort of amazing that they were able to pull off that level of secrecy, really that knew. I think if you're incredibly rich you can pull off secrecy, can't you?, But can I just say that when the US bombed those Hooti targets in Yemen, the national seecurity adviser accidentally added a journalist to the group chat. So It's actually more secure than a number of high level US military operations. I think if I was spending twenty six million dollars on a wedding, which is my guess as to what it costs. becausecause that's what they gave to charity as well. and that felt like quite a random amount. So I they thought, oh, it cost twenty six million. let's give twenty six million to charity. Yeah, if I was spending twenty six million And I could afford security and police and this ty of the other. Yeah, I'd have a fairly secure Yeah, but what does it cost to bond the hooties? I don't want to get sidetacked into that, but that's quite expensive too. I more than twenty six million. let me tell you that for free. Well, it was a military operation and Adam Sandler was apparently the efficienter language. Yes. So discuss Well, again, if I' got twenty six million, someone says you want to havey Gilore to marry you You think, Yeah, of course, of course I want to havey Gilmore to marry. Who would you choose? You you think is interesting of A guest? A Vicer? Yeah is that It's the sort of The Bel' playaid by the literally the biggest stars in the world. There there's a status to being you know they want to and also that those two, your supposed English teacher and your gym teacher want to be the sort of people who have Steven Spielberg at their wedding who have Beyonce who here. I mean, celebrities, as we know, don't have old friends I think they regard it as a moral flate. I only felt that they did have some old friends there. because they got I mean, this is the thing. Youve got a thousand people that how many people do have at your wedding? aboutbout one hundred and fifty, I think. Yeah, I think we had about one hundred and twenty. And even then you're like, I mean, towards the edges of the one hundred and thirty hundred and forty, you're quite pushing it. You quite a lot of people I'm thinking. Did you actually have a chance to sit down with machine Gun Kelly during the evening? anything did. Some of the people were just sort of like Okay, Hu Grant fine. I mean' fine. The machine gun Ky was an old friend of Travis Kelsey They grew up together. Okay so up He's like a weird. he's a celerity. There are some unusual names on the list I mean It's I like the fact that she invited Grahem Norton because he asked her on the show. Yeah. and Greg James. I sort I sort of get it So a thousand people, say at it' Madison Square Gardens, you used to having a lot more than a thousand people there and a thousand in the kind of abstract doesn't sound that many But let's sit down let's be at that kitchen table with Travis and Taylor So everyone who's been married, imagine just that thing where you sit down and go, okay, who's come to the wedding We know roughly how many people we've got. Let's say A normal wedding, one hundred and twenty, you might have a smaller one, you might have a bit bigger, but the maximum, you're not having many more than two hundred. And you sit there, family, friends, this the other, and then you know maybe you sprinkle a few kind of,h, it wouldll be interesting if we invited to so and so because they've never met so and so. and that might be quite fun. and o they did invite us to that thing. So let's invite them. And before you know, you've sort of got to the end of the list Right? And that's one hundred and fifty people. They've then got another eight hundred and fifty people to invite. Imagine sitting around can't have done the whole list. They cannot have done the whole list. Someone must have gone Here's a list of famous people who you are tangentally attached to This is the guy when, you know, you said that you I need a yarn wool for some of these. Let me tell you. I need the connection But that's a lot of people to invite to a wedding. It is, but can we say what this actually means? which is know she is I mean, if she's like one of the biggest stars in the world for sure. Yeah Basically the biggest star in the world is still a massive star fucker. like beyond these let's be honest. they have celebrities must ask some celebrities because of my normal friends will find it hilarious if go to a wedding and I'll get pissed and I'll on the dance floor with like whoever is. We for example, had Miles Jp at our wedding and that was a lot of fun. Yeah. But that' Well, did you reveal him or did he? No, but P peopleople like all my old friends are Oh my God, it was so great that Mares Job was there. Yeah.one Everyone was excited. service, right? And he's an did little something. V veryy old friend of both of us. So so it was lovely to have him there. But that's all you need, Taylor. Just invite Miles. Honestly It just says something a little bit different. You notice I hope, by the way. you notice I hope that the last three people we interviewed on the rest' enttertainment. Stehven Spielberg. and Sul McCartney all there Yeah So it's very, very hard. I wonder, I could be wrong because I didn't see Adam Curtis on the guest list, but I wonder if Taylor listens to our shows and goes, you know what? Whever anyone may have has Whoever Marina has asked about their cultural Tim Davy was there, yeah, absolutely There was some other interesting guests. There was a guy Stephven Demitriu, who is not a film star,' not a pop star. He is the guy who runs the IC detention Center in El Paso Lena Dunham did the sort of Best womoman's speech. and said as always in the newspaper, said, Drew gasps Yeah, it didn't Of course it didn't, peopleeople were just laughing Okay, I'll tell you who wasn't there And this is so cold. okay me Blate lively. Yeah. Was she not there? No. They got some pictures of her attending some horse show with her and Ryan Reynolds was one of their children in upstate somewhere or other. los. What's fascinating about that is given you're having a thousand people, Yes, there's a lot of people also, can I say when you do a wedding list that you think I mean,'re not I don't know why we're friends anymore, but we are friends and I'm not leaving these people off. it would be really awful. Who would like for your wedding would that be? She It's a long time ago, wroten it But she really didn't completely cull her for the whole lively Baldony thing. That is so cold, okay. Taylor Swift is gomother, not just to one of Blate Lively's daughters, but to all three of the daughters She is godmother. Oh wow. So she didn't invite her godchildren Becauseuse she didn't have bridesmaids, I saw that. and Travis, I don't think had groomsmen No, that's u It's called It's really interesting because when you look back at it was this ongoing plotline like, are they still friends? Is this song on Life of a show God about her? when she' saying G good thing I like my friends cancellled? There was all that sort of stuff that people said. And it was unclear, you know, just because they hadn't been photographed. And if you look at all the messages which came out in the discovery process of the It Ends with U Megadrama Taylor Swift is very, very supportive. the exposure of the messages and the sort of brand contamination that she's called up for because I don't know what else you could have done if saying you've got me involved in this and you've exposed me. Is that what's done it? It's so cold that she's not that. But again, I mean, we've all had this issue very, very close. We've all had this issue with our weddings Yeah. You know, when you go, o God, we would have invited Eileen but after that lawsuit Very difficult. So Aunti Iing, I'm so sorry because you are honestly you are one thousand one on the list By the way, somebody would have been one thousand and one on that list. Somebody would have been one thousand and one. There was a group of people who were like Yeah. Iagine if we'd interviewed her at some point and you haven't been invited And Greg James had. We would' have been like Greg. Tay I'm going to invite everyone I've ever talked to. Yeah, yeah. at one point And we just never and spoke to her. In terms of it as a sort of fan service event because everything she ever does is in some ways it was in keeping with her songs, which is you know, there's a long gessing games. is it about this? the possibility of sort of decoding things Also as in keeping with a lot of her songs, it does because of the Bate lively angle contain mega celebrity beef And I wonder how much more will be unfolded for them and what more they'll be able to see. They had the event the night before, which sounded like a much more sedate affair. That sounded like you know a hundred people. that sounded like the weddings that we would have. And it' be interesting to see who went and it'd be interesting to see if actually they did do anything official on that.ne of those It was just an American wedding breakfast. Everyone does a speech Thanks America. Well we don't feel the need. Their vows were twenty minutes long each Oh my Godd. can you I mean, can you begin to imagine Can you begin? I mean, I love my friends. An of my friends have during that ceremony I be like, come on guys, this is listen, you're in love with each other. That's good. A lot of people in this room in love with each other. A lot of people have been in love before. A lot of people here have been married. We've been to each other's weddings. Okay. who look out, just absolutely look out across the congregation here. Tom and Riter have done this? I don't think so. Who here is Gary forty minutes worth of vows. And the answer will be nobody. Yeah, that's likeight longer than Lilly Allen's current concert. Yeah That's longer that's longer than injury time in the In the England I saw think of all time. Yeah But yah, so I think that it's If you cannot be performative on your wedding day, when can you be? So That's a giveiven. I'll tell you what Richard, she hass got a number of opportunities to be perform. Well she can be, ye Yeah. She has, in fairness, Taylor Swift, a number of opportunities to be performing. More than most of us. Yeah. But I think you're allowed to be self indulgent Yeah on your wedding day. we've all got friends you have been self indulged and you My sell on brad I amm amazed. I really thought that they would like be in some sweet. I mean, how many of the songs have got stuff about sweet little churches and aisles and all of this sort of stuff? And it's like, allright, you're gonna do it Madison Square Garden. So when announcement comes out, it's going to say just T and T married. So is this like a tie out with AT and T? Yeah. that. that was bad. Yeah' yeah that's more performative than I would have chosen to be. They even when when when you when you walked in, which I thought was sort of a nice touch. you walked past a wall of pictures of Travis and Taylor when they were children and getting older, which exactly what they did in Gavin and Stacey. Yes.' theact it's the exact same trick, right? I've seen it before. Yeah. that's yeah. So they've obviously they built a castle within I mean I'm saying a lot of this stuff out loud. I'm told that they built a sort of castle within And it was a sort of Cinderella, sort of Aliceon Wonderland themed. party I mean, it sort of fine.ine mean you've got to have a theme. And you know, they obviously do Yeah they have wedding planners. Yeah. And once you do have wedding planners, of course, wedding plannans have got to try and earn their money somehow. so they're going to be throwing ideas at you and you're going You know, say yes get someome of them. Yeah, but you haveort you have to do something, don't you? Yeah And you know, they're busy people. You know, they've got the recording albums, they got podcasts and we know how long that takes. L listen It's their wedding. They can do what they absolutely what they want. They're clearly in love with each other and I think that's really re. forty minutes in love with each other. Yes, you could never. Yeah. But yes, I think we're allowed to talk about it as a cultural event because they made it a cultural event. It wasn't as you say, it wasn't a quaint little wedding in upstate New York with, you know, a few friends and family. I mean, that would have been amazing. you think I have part here. I would have done that, do an acoustic set afterwards and invite Sepaul, invite Stevie Nicks, who both played in the gig. Everyone plays acoustically in a tiny little under a pagoda in a New England church and then release that That's a lovely they call it the wedding album. That's if I was their wedding planner and I got down to I would watch that show so hard. I got down to the last three U that's what I would have done I've said, lookook, Take your twenty six million And the twenty six million arere given to charity, that's fifty two million do. I'll do this whole thing for four hundred thousand because I've got to include security. know So I figure fifty grall for the actual wedding, three hundred fifty for security and stuff like that. And then we can give fifty million to charity and we'll release an album off the back of it, the wedding album and we'll make all that money back Well, I'm sorry they didn't go with you. One of the other one of the last things I about this. So this is the first time I've seen this and you realize just how like convincing AI slop or, right just AI is I've seen so many pictures of them that look so kind of realistic of them facing off against each other in a wedding dress and thing. And I keep thinking, is that one? Have they released one? None of them are real. There's just masses and masses and masses of air. We know they were in Dor and it was custom Dor so many pictures have come out that do look incredibly convincing and they're just they're not real. It's becoming like complete ubiquitous. Yeah, it's fascinating. It's fascinating you shut down New York. Again, you know we talk a lot about where all the stars gone and where's the old days of show business and shutting down the middle of New York in a hundred degrees heat. So that's sort of very show businessy and having every celebrity on the planet apart from Blake Lively at your wedding. That's very so busy The big takeout is that the biggest stars in the world are massive star fuckers. I mean they are, theyn't It's very interesting know, celebrities flop together and they say, o, ands because we sort of understand each other, you think, I don't know if it is. I think it's because your power multiplies itself by their power. And it's like people in the city who will hang out with other people in the city who have a lot of money or access to a lot of money because that multiplies itself. It's very easy to make money when you're surrounded by other people who make money and it's very easy to become more famous when you're surrounded by other people who are incredibly famous almost everything written about this wedding was about who was there. You know, I mean, it m And the idea of people like, you know, Spielberg having to show a sort of QR code to get through. and you know, yes, JayZ, I'll have your phone off you. All of that is such a power move. They were drinking JZ's champagne, as were, weren't they? Oh were they Ace of sppade champagne was what they was what they were drinking. I sure the brand opportunities were extraordinary I mean, can you can you begin to imagine that the money they're going to be making out of it over the next couple of months? Yeah. I stories we're going to hear. But everybody people would, you know, posting people with the ones with the beauty brands like Selena Gomez were posting, you know, putting on their own products in the car on the way there. It was a very modern Event Yeah. My favourite bits was when they friends from home were there as well and the family and Mama Kelsey who I've been very much enjoying on few Titers. Triters as well. That's nice. There's something very beautiful at the heart of it That's nice thing. That's why we're allowed buy into it. If you can cut your through this. But as a spectacle, I would just say to everybody, everybody here who has been married, who's about to get married, who wants to be married in the future Think about sitting at the kitchen table thinkink about getting to that ninety odd number of people that you think, yeah, that's I think That's our family, that's our close friends from home. Those are the people that actually in the last five years who have really become important to us and the people we would really love to meet each other. Think about getting to that number and add another nine hundred ten people. and just think about how that would be. Given, by the way, if you invite Siman to Bielberg, he would probably say no So you're really that's a net you're really going to have to come. I would love to know who said no. I would that's a docum I would watch like The Beatles get back nine hours worth. I wouldd watch nine hours worth of them going through the guest list for that way down. I would love that so much. I would just love to hear the nose. I'd love to hear the noose on their side and I'd love to hear the RSVPs came Would you have Would you have gone if you had been invited? I know neither of us would ever been invited absolute. Of course I would have. Of course I. I was talking to Ingrid about this and I said, Well, I don't think I would go because I would't want to I would't want to go to New. You dont want to see it. Yeah she just said stop me say I mean you're an idiot. Yeah. Of course you would I can assure you you would be that's true.ure you Ingrid for be in foring me it'sue. you are going I just' know how much how much fun it would be being a thousand person Wedding with people who don't really know that well The people watching would have been off the chain. It would have been hysterical, abbsolutely hysterical. It's like the black and white ball times a hundred. You could have just laughed so much It's just like a Hilarious moment. You know what, a reason I would have gone, it would be nice to meet Greg James. So after the break, we are going to talk about, I would say very much the British Taylor Swift Katie Price This episode is brought to you by the Lloyds five K house deposit. Lloyds are offering a five K house deposit, which was last seen in nineteen ninety six. What are your entertainment memories of the nineteen nineties? I feel guilty talking about the nineteen nineties because you look back and it was such a golden era. We'd never had it so good We didn't even realise because we were young and we just thought we were entitled to it. We absolutely took it for granted The pop was absolutely in its pump, Oasis playing to a quarter of a million people. You had blice girl I'm so sorry.ice girls, amazing movies at the cinema, train spotting. I mean it felt a time of absolute optimism. but at the time you just assumed that was the way that a very British type of optimism. Yeah. And part of the optimism, of course, is that mortgages were more affordable. and that is what Lloyds is dealing with right now Last seen in nineteen ninety six, Lloyds are now offering five K deposit mortgages to first time buyers. 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Find Ollie sleep solutions for the whole family at Ollie. com That's ollY. com Welcome back, everybody. Now we are talking about a new documentary that on Wednesday. It's called Katie Price Nowhere to Hide. It's on Sky. It's made by Mindhouse, Louis Th's production compomany and it's directed by Patty Wival. She's sort of obviously been a sort of fixture of national life and she says it was a fun ten years, then the second ten years starts to get turbulent and then the third ten years it's you left. It's an extraordinary thing. It's very, very good, I should say. And I think it's we've talked a lot about subject commissioned documentaries on this podcast. And I don't know who commissioned this, but it doesn't matter because there's nothing she would have taken out. I mean, she has a sort of nuclear canda. It's extraordinary She has nothing to hide. She Yeah beyond I am what I am. I mean, it's amazing there's a shot really quite near the beginning where She's showing Paddty Weal, the documentary maker, you know into our past and they can't get into her garage where it's all stored because the old pink range rover she had, which has now got its windows sort of caved in and it was sort of overfinched so it says pricey along the back instead of Rangeover. It tres are down. It's just lodged in front of the garage door so she has to sort of crawl under to get in it. Anyway, she gets into this garage and there's a load of pink fun fur and a load of other stuff One of the boxes just says X's and surgery. Yeah. And even then she says, Ohh, that's a big box. Yeah it's okay Before we go any further, I do want to say that it is obviously and anyone who has seen the pictures of her, has read the stories about her in the last few years will also have this sense that it is an incredibly sad story and it's an awful story and that it transitioned from one thing to another and it's a really and I definitely think that This does not shy away from any of that. deals kind of amazingly with her relationship with her own body. just her sense of herself as ugly, She always struggles to make friends. she's friends with horses basically. And there's lots of her as a child just being a sort of horse loving It's solitary child who if you listen to the family changed overnight. Her family are involved in this and they are absolutely brilliant. Everyone of my family members is incredible. Her m and her sister, her brother and her stepfather are absolutely amazing. She then turns fourteen and she just becomes this compelling sexual presence to boys and At sixteen, she already knows she's going to be famed. She sort of changes, but she's been abused twice by then. and she's a sort of great narrator of her own story because she talks about wanting to be looked at by men, being desperate to be looked at, but not touched And so this pictorial thing it's interesting because she gets onto page three basically, which is her hge is her big break. And you get in because someone sends your pictures in and someone took us have a lunch break on Brighton Beach, gets some pictures of her And then they changed her name from one they went through a whole list they said, yeah, you can't be called Kate. Ccause really called call herself, Kate. and they showed the list and they had it's like Linda. you think it' gott be Linda,' Land Lusardi. it's just like all incredly normal names and someone just said, How about Jordan? she just went' to be fine. I mean, Peter St strring fellow used to do that with all the strippers, you know, you'd always like, comeome over here, Jerey come on, come. And that was not, you know, everyone had to be sort of rebranded in mean she presents that weirdly as a sort of sliding doors moment where her personality splits into. I don't quite we'll talk about it. I don't quite buy it. I don' think her personality does split into. She talks quite a lot about saying, there's Jordan and then there's Katie and they are different people and people don't see the real me. but a lot of what she does and how she behaves, you think? No, think I think that there's quite a lot of you in Jordan and there definitely is a very gentle because you hear about it from people know it there is a gentle kind person there. but I think I think a lot of this personona is also you. Yes. But she says that because she is a sort of master of narrative and for a long time, she believes she can shape the narrative about her And it was interesting. I remember so she got gets on page three and I worked at the suun at the time and she did something. It was so ridiculous. They had a no silicon rule on page three. If you don't remember what page three was, there was a toppless women on page three of the paper every day. And nobody questioned it. And nobody questioned it. And she wanted to have a boob job. This was right before the sort of democratization of this surgery, which was which we now you know, is completely sort of democratized The sons of I mean, I hated all this aspects of the sun. They sort of felt like they were drawing a line in the sand and know readers had to be able to believe what they saw in terms of the tits they were being shown. And remember, they were so prissy in the sun that they would asterz out the central eye of the word tit because you know words had to be aster ofen when they were three inches east of a pair of the actual thing. anyway. But they polled the reader, shouldould she do it? she shouldn't do it. And I remember at the time because I worked there and I was doing picture research at the time And people are like, she's so stupid, she's so headstrong. She's destroyed her career now because she can't pay up here on Page threeree anymore because she's done this. Anyway, she ends up doing Playboy and all things like that. But actually I think what was so interesting her at the time about her at the time Yes, she was headstrong, but she'd foreseen something that they had not seen, which is that a new type of fame was becoming available and ownership of yourself was a possibility. And she also said, I wanted them to be fake. I wanted them to look fake. I wanted that fake look. That's the thing that I wanted to do. I wasn't trying to deceive anyone. I wanted them to look fake Yeah. which that's a very interesting character note. But also to be told, you won't work here again and to think, well, you know what? I back myself. Yeah. And she did back herself But she does time out time in this occasionally for ill But she doesn't represents a new kind of monetization at that point in celebrity culture which was okay, there's the lab Mags and there's an explosion of the lab Mags and you can make money through those. She's always soldap pap shots. I've watched the first two episodes of documentary. I don't know if she gets into how much she sells pap shots there's very interesting the very first kind of thing where one of the pap sion. Well, she said like I was going out, this is after she'd had Harvey and they were selling you know, photos on me and they were getting paid for it. She says, so I just thought Hold on, I'm going to go out anyway and someone's getting paid for these photographs. I want to get paid. So she teamed up with one of the Paps, one of the agencies. and he speaks completely freely about it. He said that she would get photographed coming in and then she'd tell me I'm coming out the back. I would photograph her. There'd always be a couple of fellowasort of holding her up. She'd give me a little wink. I'd send in the photos code on it which was my code, so I would get money. There'd also be a code on it, which was Katie's code, and so she would get her money as well. And you know but she says she said, this is why I did it. There was showing it anyway. I knew someone was making money. I thought, well I would like me to be making m. She took ownership of our value in a way that was actually sort of very was radical, but it's even more than that. The idea she saw herself clearly, she becomes very quickly She sees herself as a serial drama and The Kardashians, keeping up with the Kardashians only launches in two thousand seven It now feels like we've lived in that era for a long time, but then it's tied to PAs to endorsements and that idea that there's a narrative momentum to your own life. that people will buy into, figuratively and literally, that they will buy things And it was the sort of train wreck era of all you know, Lindsey Loan and Brittney Spears, but she always seemed to be just about in control of her train at that time. And these books about her life, you know her autobiographies, the sales on those is unbelievable. Even the first few novels, I think she said about twelve novels now. And the sales now are not what they were. but the first few The first one was four hundred thousand copies in hardback. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah's a Elbious Lee she has evolved and I mean, if we just flash forward to the present day, lots of we had so many questions about this and we never really answered it because you may know that I mean she her latest escapade is that she M a guy. They got married after just a few days. he they got you know, obviously tattoos of each other. A proposal identical to a one he made very recently to a woman He lives in Dubai. He's obviously I'm s to say Le Andrews It's a complete wrong. Has he got a Cambridge doctorate? I don't think he has. He can't leave Dubai and people saying o, we can't leave Dubai and she was like he can. he's coming to me. W him. Anyway, just when he was due to travel, he says, I've been he rings her and says, you know, I've been kidnapped, I've been taken to a black site Which I think it's incredibly hard to tell might be connected to some fraud allegations, which he denies. I mean, he denies a whole lot of things, I think from a hair transplant to fraud allegations to the fact that he can leave Dubai. And this is the ongoing drama and it's incredibly hard to know what is actually happening. Well Patdty Weival, the director of this who have to say does so G job. he said in an interview, he said, The hardest thing about the documentary was knowing where to end it. He said, because I'd be in the edit for like sort three months and think, Okay, okay, I think I've got it now. And then I get a call and I go Sorry Leeho Yeah it because it just It never ends. Even now she is totally compelling and I'd sort of forgotten because there's a lot you have to look away from now. you know, she's so thin. She's obviously had so unbelievably many surgeries. It's interesting they talk really good access all the way to as you say family. when they're talking about affairs when they're talking about Gareth Gates and Gareth Gates is there're talking about it. when they want to talk about Dane Bowers, he is there talking about her as well. But they talk the guy who did her first ever breastash surgony. So talks about it. he said and this was the size of it said and then she came back and wanted a big one. I said and then she came back again and wanted a big one. I said, no, that you I mean You can't h and the Py goes what happened and he went, well, she just went somewhere else and someone else did it for her. She is a force of nature and there's something about sort of girls like that that you do see slightly feel like built the country to some degree and they should really have been twirling around with all the beds in the twenty twelve opening ceremony, you know. And I sort of in a way, I don't know why you could compare it to an opera diva, you know, where the life is just this extraordinary tragedy that's sublimated into something. All you know, picorressque novels normally about sort of roguish men, but there's a subsection of them that are about kind of lower class women who use their wes to I was thinking about exactly that. It feels like a nineteenth century novel. It really does. And you know, these characters have been s right? They've always existed and she's just molded herself to the times in which she lives and actually she's molded some of the times in which she lives as well. You know, she has the curse of being compelling. Lots of people had her background, lotots of people had things that L lots of people had her talents, lots of people had her story, but she is so compelling to people that she is enabled at every single step of her. She understands what she means and what I find very weird about is that she's always lent in, as we've discussed, so completely hard to whatever sells. Yeah. And I think that She now sees and this is the sort of part of the tragedy of it, she sees herself as a cautionary tale. And so she sees that the cautionary tale is the thing that sells the most and quite hard because although this You know, this business of commodifying yourself in the way that she has is quite young in the scope of human history, except in, you know, I guess some professions or whatever, but there's a point where you don't really know whether the dynamics of the story, where that stops and where she starts or what she's doing because it would make a good story. And it's very difficult to think of whether just the sales or her are in the driving seat. It's interesting because as you say, she's brutally honest all the way through. She doesn't hold back, she answers every single question, but she doesn't seem to have as much self knowledge as you would expect. And I think you know by the time you get to the age of forty eight, perhaps you should have some of that. ge The famies seem to have a great deal of knowledge about her and kind of understand her. And's every time something new happens like Dane or Gareth and they just cut to one of the family and they were just like And then we heard about this and we're like, Oh No because they're exceptional. Every time, they really are exceptional. But dealing with a force of nature, you see that you see that family who are so great in so many ways, but Some people Yes,'s they can't N mind n ifature, nature will find a way. Yeah, if that family cannot control her She is not going to be controlled because they are super bright. But there's only one moment fun enough in the first two episodes where Patty calls her out on how she treated Gareth Gates and says, I think you humiliated him And it's the only point where she goes, Yeahah, maybe yeah, gosh. I sort of suppose I did. It's almost everything that's being asked of her is something she's considering for the first time. She lives her life Well she's incredibly proulsive. Yes. She is a very, very propulsive person. I mean I can recognise elements of that that it's better to just go forward and compartmentalize things. But one of the things you should take away from it is the idea of the audience because If you feel like have a look at it if you think you've been able to look away from her for a while because she is compelling and the audience gaze, that's been a huge part of this. And she as a I mean physically, I mean, to look at and as a story holds a mirror up to society you know, what is fetishized and normalized and then kind of expected of women's bodies The abuse of it, the actual abuse of it, direct criminal in some cases and indirect and the collateral damage of it to these people around her. And then there's this sort of woman, this tiny woman kind of staggering on in the middle of it all. Yeah, she seems in the middle of all of this and in the middle of this cultural force, she does seem to retain her agency, which I think makes it even more fascinating because she seems to be complicit in a lot of what happens in a way you don't often see in these documentaries. I think it's really worth people watching and you will make your own mind up and everyone will have different opinions'ser veryy well done. It's really, really well done. It's terrificallyly interesting. And if I may segue It is on Sky on Wednesday. and we will finish by talking a little bit about Sky because they have just bought ITV. if you're wondering what that means. I mean, it's been on the cast for a long time. Well yeah, we first talked about it when we knew it was significantly on the cards last year They then they were talking about buying it for two billion. They've bought it for one point six billion do, which a lot of people ' saying it'll be worth about half that in a year. so the prices come down. Not ITV studios, we should say, the networks arem. So the free to wear PSB ITV, that's five channels. Yeah. SoTi ITV other production companies. so they haven't bought yet the people actually make programmes. bought s. So what does this mean? Well S Sky is owned by Comcast, but this is interestingly, this is Sky's deal. It's been driven completely by Dona Strom, who runs Sky in the UK. As the wise of it we talked about before, but you know Sky is too small in pay and ITV is too small in advertising and you go for scale and you share many costs. You know cost synergies is obviously a euphemism and we'll have to get to that because take about one point six billion in cost synergies even before you start the idea kind of strategic business synergies. What you're seeing here is two of the three biggest advertising houses merge. So in terms of who should be most worried, we'll talk about within Sky and ITV, Channel four should be most worried because How do you get protections from being on the sidelines as the smallest advertising house now. This is going to take a while to go through because the competition and markets authority who decide whether or not you've got too much share of the market or you're tending towards monopoly. As we've said, consolidations sort of has to happen. Yeah, if you look at both of them know sky, very, very openly they say we have to get growth. We have to get growth and we can't get growth with our current Business bankers that's not where the market is. and ITP can't get growth with where they are because that's not where the market is either. Together, there is some sort of synergy so it makes absolute sense. In terms what would it actually mean as a viewer F, very, very, very little. The ITV shows will remain on ITV, the sky shows will remain on the sky. There's certainly going to be a discussion about Why don't we put Saturday night live on ITV and suddenly we can get two million extra viewers, but those discussions haven't been had. That's not what they're planning to do. Sky want to be the out at the moment. Yeahactly. They want to use ITV's jewel, so you'll have loveve Isreland and you'll have World Cup, you'll have all sorts of things like that. But again on a streaming platform. So the streaming platform will be Sky and ITV. So what it actually means a couple of things it actually means we talked before about This need for IiPlayer and the other terstrial broadcasters to team up with each other to form one thing which would be BBC, ITV and channel four. That will now not happen with ITV definitely Not with ITV But Channel four and BBC one therefore I mean Channel four have to team up We've talked about it before like a strategic rushation now. It is now not just a good idea, it's an imperative idea. Channel four and the BBC have to find a way to come together You've got this sort of floating voter in the form of F, which is owned by Paramount and obbviously bothoth sides would be saying come in with us, but I don't think actually with those ad with that ad sales point that I've made earlier that that would even be possible for So the BBC in channel four and five, I mean, they've really got to sort of come together and they've got to do this. You're just looking to try and have these destinations of scale because otherwise you're going to get swallowed up. I have to say that I think I think, by the way, it's not happening at the moment because Channel four is in such a weak position very that they know that they would be eaten now. Whereas if they have a couple of good years, a couple of big yearsars, a couple of big hits, the next I think they I think they have have to go over themselves and channel four have to get over themselves and they have to find a way to do this. And I don't think they should be wasting two years in my opinion.. Yeah. but there's ego involved Okay, but the time for ego is now. long past And yes, I agree, But they'd have to find a way to give it equal prominence and do all of those things. I think within within Sky itself, you know, Sky have often sort of said I don't know, I'd be worried if I workeds at Sky News, I have to say in Sky Arts because there is those Those things have been have sort of existed. I think Sy Comcast would have got rid of Sky News as soon as they were allowed to with the obligation of the obligation pass for them to have to keep it open. But now, you know, Sky will have be the haveaver newews arm. They had things like Sky Arts and Sky News as sort of lost leader to be part of the ecosystem. but if you now have one via OTV I fear that would be one of the sort of synergies as it were. Sky is going to ultimately be a victim of people unbundling, okay? because they just are. And they've been good at managing not to that happen but a lot of pressure has been on the football because the football is what they have basically. Can you explain to people what unbundling means? Unbundling means that you don't say,' not I'm not to have these sky services. say at the moment they've got a big issue which is that they've still got a lot of people paying eighty quid a month for their tey. And if you say, okay, well I'm going to unbundle. I'm not have I'm not going to get this all through skky.' have freely and Netflix and prime. and HBOax and I'm still going to be paying way less. So there's been a lot of pressure because they have they do have the football. I have to say, the new government green paper is trying to list all sorts of different events and make it more difficult. So you need other stuff because the football has been this kind of huge thing that has kind of kept it up. They need other stuff. They don't make that much content all but I do think that those synergies mean that some of the stuff they do make is going to fall away Yeah, Well, they've got plenty of money, which is good. They don't have the shop window quite as much as ITV, whereas ITV got less money than they did, but have this incredible shop window. Everyone involved you talked to on each side feels fairly comfortable with it. As you said, I think you know there will be redundancies as certain jobs are kind of doubled up. I would think something like Sky Arts would be fairly safe because ITV is a PSP and everyone at Sky is saying we absolutely needs to stay a PSP. No one at Sky is going, no, we're going to bring this entirely into the commercial thing. We're going to try and get out of all of our PSP obligations. That doesn't seem to be what they're saying. And therefore, you know, ITV do have to do tsgramt this pro it gives you protection to be a PSB. they want that. They've always tried to argue for being a PSB because we provide things like Sky Arts and sky News, but they don't actually have any of the PSB obligations so they don't but they have argued to try and get into that. Well the best thing about being a PSB is you're right at the front you know, front and center when you turn your television on. That's the main best thing about being a PSB. But I would have thought Sky Arts is perfect. you know, that's a really easy thing for ITV to have to put all of its arts programming through I'm not sure about that, but anyone Yeah, well it's resource. But the newewson would be very, very interesting as well. But yeah, in terms of being a viewer Almost nothing changes apart from you know, what's going to happen with I playayer and that's completely changed now because L itphy you're not going go anyhere near it, I think. BBC and Channel four have to set up something together A get a button on the remote. saying this. They need a button on the remote. You can't compete with the American dreams. you need a button on the remote. Yeah. That's something the government could do, but anyway Yeah Well, listen, maybe they're listening. They wouldn't have got to the end. They'd be like, no, I was only listening for Tayor Swift and Ky Price. When it got to the sky thing, I was like, yeah, I'm less interested. Any recommendationsend Tournament footballnam football. That's all lot of you doing and that's all I have been doing. What about you? If you like the idea of monopoly but hate playing because it takes so long, Monopoly deal, which is a card game you can play. It's a bit like Rummy that you got to collect sets, but it's like a much quicker, much more fun version of Monopoly. MD in the parliament to the kids. You got MD. MD. Oh reallyally? Yeah. You play it too. I've played a lot. I've had to ban it being played in certain places such as restaurants.'ve I urge you to impose restrictions on it if younger people are playing because it can get actually in some ways nastier. It's quite frustrating.? I don't think I've ever won a game Wow, really? Okay ye I likewise probably. I've qu got a competitive family. And I'd also recommend we were talking earlier about picturesque nineteenth century novels. I'm reading No Name by Wilie Collins, I' to finish No Name by Wilie Collins, which I don't think many people talk about, but it's a really, really, really, really terrific book and by the way, any drama ex exs listening would make an amazing adaptation. It It's got like some central characters who you just think, o my go called I'm going to buy when I leave. I haven't read it. No name, it's called. It's long like all of those things. I can analley it. Yeah. But your one hundred percent, Katie Pricekood would be right in the middle of that book. Right Other than that, we are back on Thursday with a Q and A, but also which I enjoyed very, very much and the second part of your special bonus series on what World Cup have we got this week We've had you as sitcoms. We are doing the World Cup of British Bands. So who are the best British band of all time? A acccording to the British band. We've already recorded it I will say this I would say it's very interesting I would say of you. Very interesting. John Robins and Aazy Adam, I' back to talk about that. If you want to become a member, which is actually free listening all of our bonus content, it is thereestus entntertainment d. comot We'd love to have you, but for everyone else, we will continue to be free twice a week every week. See you on Thursday. See Thursday Hello everyone. We've got some exciting news to share with the listeners of the R' Entertainment. We do indeed. We are holding a summer sale so you can become a member of the club for a third off the regular price. That's right. withith the code Summer twenty six you can head to the restersntertainment. com and claim annual membership with this brilliant discount. So if you want to spend your summer listening to us discussing celebrity drama, behind the scenes stories and industry gossip have none of the ads and why wouldn't you? It is a no brainer. Plus, you can catch up with all of the archive of our members only shows you may have missed including Marina's latest series Vive Shift. And we've got lots more of those special series planned, but remember this deal will only run until the end of August, so don't wait around, head to therest is entntertainment. com now Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing, to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need.