The Aftermath and Legacy of Hamilton

This episode is brought to you by the Lloyd's five K House deeposit, and this is something that was last seen in nineteen ninety six. Yeah, so the nineteen nineties looks now like a lost golden age of prosperity and positivity, doesn't it? Think of the sort of the advent of the Blair administration in nineteen ninety seven, all the enthusiasm and excitement that surrounded that of economic growth of the time, the technological developments, the sort of sense of an endless golden summer where everybody is listening to Blur and Oasis and looking forward to buying their first houses. And that of course takes us to mortgages. Now the good news is that in a nord to the nineteen nineties, Lloyd's offering five K deposit mortgages to first time buyers. So search five K first time buuyer nineteen ninety six average first time buyer deposits are based on ONS data. Subject to status, your home may be repossessed if you don't keep up repayments and conditions apply The FIFA World Cup is here, and you can now feel the thrill of the pitch in FIFA World Cup Launch Eedition on Netflix, a fast and fluid football game where your phone is the controller and the TV is the stadium. Play for your country in sixteen different stadiums with up to four friends. All included in your membership. scroll to the games tab on your TV and play FIFA World Cup Launch Edition, now, only on Netflix And we're live on match dayay as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing. He's got it. Oh and he's gone for a can of Pepsy too. What a finish There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Match days deserve Pepsy This letter, my very dear Eliza, will not be delivered to you, unless I shall first have terminated my earthly career, to begin, as I humbly hope from redeeming grace and divine mercy A happy immortality. If it had been possible for me to have avoided the interview My love for you precious children would have been alone a decisive motive. But it was not possible without sacrifices which would have rendered me unworthy of your esteem I need not tell you of the pangs I feel fromom the idea of quitting you and exposing you to the anguish which I know you would feel Fly to the bosom of your God and be comforted with my last idea I shall cherish the sweet hope of meeting you in a better world I dear. Best of wives and best of women emmbrace all my darling children for me E yours Alexander Hamilton That was the farewell letter written by Alexander Hamilton to his wife Eliza And he wrote it exactly a week before his fatal duel with Aron Burr on the eleventh of july eighteen oh four. And I think that for anyone Tod who may be inspired to challenge someone to a duel Ecellent model and I think that should one day I similarly find myself Writing to my own beloved wife, Sadie that's in my intention to fight a duel. I shall sign myself off Thomas Holland couital letters is what Alexander Hamilton did there. Dominately, we haven't really done many duels on the rest ofs history. In fact, I don't think we've done any, have we? And this is an absolute banger with which to kick off the history of duels on the rest of history. Undoubtedly the most celebrated duel in American history, perhaps in all of history And Henry Adams called it the most dramatic moment in the early politics of the Union and it's I guess kind of reached a new audience over the past few years, because it's featured very prominently in a celebrated musical, hasn't it It has Linmanuel Miranda's hip hop musical that opened off Broadway in twenty fifteen. And Lim Manuel Miranda, he's had a lot of praise so we should introduce the tiny notes of criticism so he doesn't get too big headed The one mistake you made was not to emulate your tremendous accent work there with the portrayal of Hamilton course Hamilton would have spoken with a slightly comical semi Scottish, semi Caribbean But ultimately West country voice, wouldn't he? Like all Americans? Yes, which is what I was evoking there. I think it's fair to say that an emphasis on strict realism isn't a key notote of the musical, is it? No, it's true. In some ways it was an unexpected triumph because Alexander Hamilton is not the most celebrated of the founding fathers. But of course the Jewel is a really great moment. and the Jewel is a good story. The Jewel's a brilliant window into the factionalism of the seventeenh nights is the factionalism that follows American independence in seventeen seventy six. So you've got the rivalry between Hamilton's Federalists And top villain Thomas Jefferson's Democratic Republicans. Well you say top villain. We're going to be looking at him in our next episode. You know my views? I know your views, but people can find out mine in the next episode. This rivalry between Hamilton and Jefferson It gives rise to what historians call the first party system, so it's the beginnings really of American party politics But what the musical does that's so clever. It story is not just a political one, it's a personal one. So you have Hamilton, The forgotten star of American independence, the forgotten tax rebel. And he's this sort of noble tragic. He loves fiscal policy, doesn't he? I mean, he's all about banks and money and that kind of thing. Yeah. should have loved the Bank of England. That's the bank he should have been interested in. Anyway, well he's sort of Othello And and then you have Burr, Aaron Burr, the man who kills him at the Jewel spoiler alert And he's the antagonist of the musical, he's jealous, he's scheming. And he's cast very much as Iago, isn't he to Hamilton's hero. And actually that draws on a long tradition in American writing. Bur has always been seen. you know the bloke who pulls the trigger has always been seen as one of American history's great villains, although There always been iconoclasts who have said, actually we've got this the wrong way round. Hamilton is the bad guy Bur has been smeared by history. So I don't know if you've read any of Gourvidal's historical novels about nineteenth century American politics. They're impenetrable. Oh God He wrote a book about Zarasta. Oh yes, yeah, which was like wading through very thick treacles. I quite enjoyed that. But he wrote one called Burr, where he told the whole story Burrs perspective and basically in Gorvidal's book, Burr is the M of Honor and Hamilton is this sort of icitous cheating opportunist. Iard everything about Gorvidal annoying Do you? Inredibly pleased with himself. Do you know what like? G he's so witty. He's so witty K also. I feel like William F. Buckley who punched him, I think in ye in an interview or something. I am the William Buckley of Gorval criticism. Exactly And then there are other historians to be fair who followed the sort of Gorvidel lin. So there's a very recent book on Burr by Nancy Eisenberg and she argues that basically Burr Our view of Burr is completely wrong. Can I just say, I mean, so obviously in this period, all the insults derive from Roman history, which I approve of. Yeah. And Hamilton calls Burr Cataline. Cataline is this kind of seedy gangster figure who emerges in the late Republic and goes off to L an uprising. Yeah This is Bay Bur. And basically as we will see, this is accurate. it happens after Hamilton has been killed. You know, he's I'm teeam Hamilton on this. I think Burr's a terrible man. We'll get a bit deeper into the Hamilton Burr issue and you can see if you change your view of Burr. Frankly, I don't think you will, but I'll give it my best shot So let's start actually with Hamilton. So Hamilton is the man on the ten dollars bill And in the opening scene of the musical, the opening number, the song is called Alexander Hamilton And the lines go like this. How does a bastard orphan, son of a hore and a Scotsman Dropped in the middle of a forgotten spot in the Caribbean by Providence, impoverished in squalor, grow up to be a hero and a scholar. Nice wrapping, Dominiic. In the musical, that is sung by Burr, isn't it And it's the conceit of the musical that Burr and Hamilton are kind of great mates when they're young That is not true, is it? No, no, not true at all. Anyway, the answer to the question is Hamilton got ahead through ambition, through talent, through hard work and through good luck. So he's born. We don't know exactly when he was born because the circumstances in which he was born. He was probably born in seventeen fifty five on the island of Nevice, which is one of the very lucrative suugar islands of the Caribbean part of the British American holdings. His father came from Ayshire, who was called James Hamilton and his mother, Rachel Fororssett, hence the name that Americans give their taps. So She was a Huguot. James and Rachel were not married. And James ran off when Alexander was very small. so that was the end of James. Alexander grows up, he's a very bookish boy. He's a big fan of Plutarch and Machiavelli Kifelli. So Plutoarch is boiler plate founding father cllassicism Machiavelli is slightly more interesting, isn't it? Do you know why? I think Hamilton is slightly more interesting than a lot of the foundaning fathers? Joh Adams was a big fan of Machiavelli as well. J Yeahah. Oh was he? Yeah Giamati. We haven't done Jon Adams on this. We should do Joham becausecause you love that series. I do love that series, yeah. In which your wife fell asleep and my wife refused to watch it Anyway, it might be a slightly boy oriented series. So Hamilton, his mother died when Rachel when he was in his early teens, which is a bad blow, but he was basically adopted by a local merchant And the people of Nevice recognized that Hamilton was very bright, and they sent him to the mainland to North America his education and he ended up in New York. This point it was the mid seventeen seventies. And as might be expected with a kind of idealistic, clever young man trying to make something of himself, he sides with his anointed king. No, sadly. Oh He makes a poor choice. He becomes intoxicated with this tax dodging with rebellion and treason They rebellion and treason and he writes a lot of pamphlets attacking his mother country And then he joined the Cental Army. And he was basically talent spotted to become the chief staff aide to George Washington of Teth Fame and Hamilton sees action at some of these, I think Americans like to call them battles, but we call them basically brawls in fields Trenton and Princeton and Yorktown But he has this quite complicated relationship with Washington because Hamilton is very much his protege and they're close. There's cense, especially the war, know in the later years of the war. The Hamilton is always kind of itching for more. Basically, Hamilton wants to see his own name in lights as well as Washington's. The cense of Eedable. I think a little bit. Both Hamilton and Burr, one of the defining characteristics is this burning ambition probably fueled by reading too much Plutarch. You know, they want to have They want to have be in a book of greatreat Lives of their own. And so basically being Washington's bag carrier is not enough for him. And I think that gives you a sense of his personality He's very clever, he's very energetic. He's a brilliant writer You know, there's lots of admirable things about him One thing everyone says though is that he's very sharp tongued, Hamilton, he's very arrogant and he's very acerbic He has a knack throughout his career of alienating people of turning potential allies into enemies. And the Yale historian Joanne Freeman says of him He was too extreme in his politics, too impulsive, too unwilling to suffer fools, too convinced he was always right, and too wary of the workings of democracy and the politics of the streets to really get on in the politics of the seventeen nineties. So although he does very well and of course he becomes treasury secretary Would he ever have become president? Probably not because there were too many people who just don't like him and he's just rubbed them up the wrong way. Anyway, I'm jumping ahead. It's really after the war that he writes this name into the history books Be it's a big figure in the debates that lead to the adoption of the Constitution, seventeen eighty nine And then he writes the majority of the essays in the federalist papers that explain the thinking behind the Constitution And I think all Americans are forced to read some of these papers when they're at school and find them incredibly boring. Do Americans generally hate Hamilt Surely you would, wouldn't you? mean it's the way that these things work that you groww up, it's like people who do A level English end up hating Milton. So Autumn, seventeen eighty nine, Washington is the first president. And he gets his old aid to be his first treasury secretary. And this is where Hamilton really kind of his name is seared into the American political consciousness. Basically in the seventeen ninetineies, they've got this new country And they can't decide what kind of country it's going to be thirteen states and they've all got debts, haven't they? Yeah, they've all got debts. And the thirteen states quite different. they don't all necessarily agree with each other, and whether they will actually stay in their new country forever is very unclear Now there are some people who say The new United States should basically be a very loose confederation We should have a very limited central government. I mean, the central government basically shouldn't really exist at all. We are a rural country We are an agrarian country of kind of farmers and plantations And these the people who are saying this often live in southern states like Virginia and the Carolinas. And Jefferson is their great spokesman. And then you have people especially from the Northeast. so people from the cities of Boston and New York. And they say, no, that's not the sort of country you want to all We should have a much more cohesive country. We need a strong government that unites us. Well let's have a dynamic federal government let us think about trade and manufacturing and commerce with Great Britain and all these things. And this makes them seem to their southern critics both overly pro British and overly monarchist. That's the criticism. Yes, exactly. And it's interesting. they say they're too British, they're they're basically want to bring the monarchy back under another name and all they care about is the balance sheet. Now, Hamilton is very much of the Northeastern persuasion He wants a strong central government, a strong executive. He wants aid to manufacturing. He wants a national bank So this bank would assume the debts of the states. It would lend money to the federal government. It would improve America's credit abroad He says, let's be pals with the British. They're our natural allies after all. And the worst people actually are the French because they've had the revolution and that's disorder and it's chaos and all of this. And obviously the other people, as you said, this bloke is just basically, you know he's what was the point in having the revolution at all? He just wants to bring the British back. And the champion of these people, Hamilton's critics, is, as you say Thomas Jefferson. And we'll talk about him more on Thursday. So during Washington's first term, this argument begins to turn into something recognizable as party politics So in seventeen ninety two, you have the first congressional elections that fall under kind of party lines Jefferson's partarty called themselves the Democratic Republicans, which is slightly confusing for people who think about politics today and Hamilton's partarty are called the Federalists. George Washington, he stays above it. He sees his role as being that of a constitutional monarch. Al also, he can't talk, can he because he show his teeth? It just sits there. Wh knows? who knowsiterally Who knows what he thinks? If he thinks anything at all Ury. So he says nothing Because of this, this is very useful for the new Republic. It works very well, he is reelected unopposed in seventeen ninety two. But in seventeen ninety six, so four years later Washington steps down, establishes the two term precedent. And there's a proper contest to replace him. And John Adams, moderate federalist, he runs against I verged on the West country voice they were Joh Adams just John Adams He runs against Thomas Jefferson and he beats him. So John Adams is in, and he's a kind of moderate federalist, as I said And he has a terrible time He has an awful time as president. Well he keeps America out of the war, doesn't he between Britain and France, which is his great achievement it comes massive costs to his reputation. He's one of these people who basically, you know, you see it so often in politics. He tries to hold the middle ground. It's a bit of a libdem and everyone says eyes Eustus's a wishy wasy, he doesn't stand for anything. I mean, part of the criticism of him is precisely that he has aspirations to be a monarchist. I mean this is he and Jefferson were great pals. They'd been in France together And they completely break up over it. they do. But the tragedy for Adams is the federalists don't despise him as well. So Hamilton and Federalists say are he's weak. He's not enough of a federalist So you get to eighteen hundred. And Jefferson's going to run again And this really is Jefferson's election to win. Everyone thinks Jefferson's going to win. Now we'll say more about this next time, so I don't want to tread on your toes, Tom for the Jefferson episode. But basically what happens is the Democratic Republicans do win the presidential election as expected. But for very complicated reasons, which we don't need to go into very complicated. There is a tie in the electoral college. So basically the Democratic Republican electors, the members of this electoral collllege, have to choose the president from the joint ticket on which they've kind of voted. And when people count all the votes, Jefferson and his running mate tied for the presidency on seventy three votes each And one of them is clearly going to be president and one of them is going to be vice president But it's going to fall to the House of Representatives to choose which is which. And the House of Representatives is controlled at this point by Hamilton's federalist partarty. And they have to decide they want to have Thomas Jefferson president or his running mate who is a man called Aaron. Br and this brings us to Burr. who is, I think, one of the most fascinating and ambiguous characters in American history. There's something slightly Nixonian about Burr, I think. a sort of brooding sort of sardonic intellect. He's born in New Jersey in seventeen fifty six He too was orphaned. He was orphaned at the age of two, He went to live with an abusive uncle. Princon. Couldd you say dominant, he's for fans of eighteent century American The theology, of which I know there are lots out there grand of Jonathon Ewards, as his greatreat Awakening. Yeah. he studied theology. He was interested in it. Yeah. Well, Jonathan Edwards make of his subsequent dueling career, I wonder. I don't think he'd app prove at all. No, I don't think you would. No, that's a definite black mark. Yeah, definitely. So Burr enlisted in the Continental Army in seventeen seventy five. He fought with great courage. He was at Valley Forge from our first episode of kneeling in the snow. Keeling in the snow he commanded a company there, playing cricket surely And also wearing like rags on his feet and stuff and eating those fire cakes or whatever they were called. And he was a strict disciplinarian. He faced down a mutiny at Valley Forge. Everyone said he had a good war. After the war, he became a very successful lawyer and politician in New York. New York in the seventeen eighties and seventeen nineties got very, very fierce factional politics. And Burr takes Jefferson's side and not Hamilton's. He basically delivers New York to Jefferson. Exactly so. Burt and Hamilton, really their feud, I think began in seventeen ninety one And this is when Hamilton's father in law, Philip Skuyler was running for re election, a senator from New York and Burr beat him. And so from that point onwards, there's a bit of bad blood. But this is more than it's far more than the bad blood between Hamilton and Jefferson. And I think part of this is because if Hamilton I'm going to irritate our American listeners by using British idiom now If I'm Hamilton is Marmite, Burr is very much Bovrille What does that mean It means that basically, you know people love or love Marmite. Yeah, and people love or hate Marmite Both Rll is even more divisive, no. No. Everyone loves Both Rll. No wrong. I've never met anyone who doesn't love Both Rll. I'll tell you who's canceling the descriptions now vegetarians and vegans. They still love it. They don't. They might like the idea of it, but not the reality. it's like, you know, you love bacon, but you don't eat it I don't think that's how veganism works. Right. Okay, but Burr is like his fellow orphan Hamilton. He's very clever, he's very ambitious, he's hard working, he's very acerbic, He's generous to his friends. In some ways, he's quite progressive by modern standards. so he's very critical of slavery opposed to nativism And he favs votes for women so he's very ahead of his time. He also has a very grevly nam wife and daughter, doesn't he? Theodosciia? Theodosia, they're both called Theodosa. Yes, although he's not the most loyal husband in the world. So I think Burr was such a philandrera, he's basically a sex addict So he was said He was said to have frequented all twenty of the finest prostitutes in New York And these women apparently were of the view that Burr was their finest customer. Anyway, Burr is he's very wily, he's self interested. And I think the thing about him is He doesn't really stand for anything other than Aaron Burr So no wonder you like him? Yeah, exactly. Halilton is very stubborn And u, You know, he's man of fixed principles Burr is changeable. Burr will do whatever it takes to get ahead So in an age when people are basically cosplaying as Kato the younger, Burr stands out He is Cataline. Yeah, well there you go. veryy changeable. So let's get back to the year eighteen hundred But as you said, as Jefferson's number two So the electoral college is deadlocked. Now some people might say, well, I was obviously always going to be the running mate, so I should just say to everybody, well vote for Jefferson. You know, I'll be the number two B thinks no This is my chance to be the number one If I suck up now to the federalists, they will pick me as the lesser of two evils and I will be president Prorouble with a birough. Hamilton has taken a disliked to him. And through the winter of eighteen hundred eighteen oh one, Hamilton tells all his friends, Look, I know we're not Jefferson fans, but we have to stop this bloke burr at all costs So this is a letter from deecember eighteen hundred Jefferson is not so dangerous a man But as to Burr there is nothing in his favour. He is bankrupt beyond redemption except by the plunder of his country. His public principles have no other spring than his own aggrandisement. And then another letter, january eighteen oh one, a few weeks later, Hamilton says to a friend Burr is a profligate a bankrupt of a luxury in the extreme. No mortal can tell what his political principles are. He's talked all around the compass At times he's dealt in all the jargon of Jacobinism. At other times he's proclaimed asidedly the total insufficiency of the federal government, and the necessity of changes to one far more energetic. The truth seems to be that he, M B, has no plan but that of getting power by any means and keeping it by all means court and employ able and daring scoundrels of every party, and by availing himself of their assistance and of all the bad passions of society, he will in all likelihood attempt a usurpation So he is the Andy Burnham post revolutionary America. That is such a good comparison Andie Berer has no fixed principles, does he? He just kind of makes up say whatever he thinks people want. He just say any stuff andight flutter his eyelashes, right? and put on an anorack. So this is very much Burr's vibe Anyway, Hamilton's campaigned against him. After thirty six ballots, the House of Representatives chooses Jefferson Bur is gutted And he blames Hamilton for this. He says, Hamilton intrigued against me. I mean he's not wrong. And much later he said to a friend He said I was tempted to challenge Hamilton to a duel But he anticipated me by voluntarily coming forward and making apologies delicacy to him and from a sincere desire for peace. I have never mentioned these circumstances always hoping that the generosity of my conduct would have some influence on his. Isn't that nice whether Actually, this is true, it's impossible to say. I mean D did Hamilton really come and apologize to him? I think it's highly unlikely Spur have a track record as telling fibbs? Yes, Tall stories, I think, maybe. Let's move on to eighteen oh four Burr has become vice president Jefferson, of course, doesn't trust him now because he knows that P basically tried to snatch the top job to his sideline bur And when he runs for reelection in eighteen oh four, he's planning to drop Burr from the ticket So Burn needs a new job And he decides to get one back in New York. That spring, eighteen oh four, he makes bid for the New York goovernorship. Now although technically he's still a Dmocratic Republican, because of his changeable nature and because he's blotted his copybook with the Democratic Republicans. He decides he will run as the champion of the Federalists. There's a very bitter campaign Even though Burr has now changed his coat, Hamilton is still opposed to him. And part of this is personal, but also Hamilton is actually worried that Burr, he genuinely thinks Burr is a threat to the survival of the Union It's easy for us to forget that in the early eighteen hundreds The Republic still feels very fragile. The division between Jeffersonians and Hamiltonians runs very deep and there's a lot of Hamiltonians, federalists in New England kindind of like the idea of breaking away. attempted to break away. Why are we in a country with all these people from Virginia who are just wittering on about farming all the time? Let's get rid of them, go off on our own And there's actually in early eighteen oh four, a very, very tentative sort of separatist plot that is focused on Washington's old Secretary of State Mglt Timothy Pickering And Hamilton finds out about this and he says, Oh this is terrible. Don't do this. keepeep the union together at all costs. Burr, on the other hand seems to have sent signals I could be open to this, you know, there could be a little bit of mileage in this. If I become governor of New York, if you helped me become Governor of New York, I would very much be interested in talking to you more about this excellent project. Should the ball come loose at the back of the scrub? Exactly. And Hamilton says to these people, Burr as a snake Don't trust Burr, donon'tote for Burr, all of this. Well, he's not wrong, is he? He's a bit of a snake? orr is he just a very adept modern politician? Oh, he's a snake. Well, the result is a landslide victory the Democratic Republican opponent to Br who's a bloke called Morgan Lewis, who quite obscure. Burr has been humiliated yet again And of course he blames Hamilton. And then Seven weeks after the election, Burr is shown an old newspaper, the Albany Register From the twenty fourth of april, eighteen oh four. And this was the day that voting opened in the election. And the paper had printed a letter from a man called Dr. Charles D. Cooper opposing Burr's candidacy, and Cooper said in the letter said, I've heard Hamilton talking about Burr I he Hamilton say that he' And I quote, He looked upon Mr. Burr to be a dangerous man and one who ought not to be trusted with the reins of government And Cooper goes on to say, if you pushed me, and I quote I could detail to you a still more despicable opinion which General Hamilton has expressed of Mr. Burr. Burr reads this and he's absolutely furious And a few days after his reeddit on the eighteenth of june, his great pal amonga William Van Ness delivers a letter to Hamilton. Burr says I'm absolutely outraged by this word in particular, despicable I want a prompt and unqualified acknowledgement or denial that you ever use this word despicable about me. Do I find this quite odd, because surely in the rough and tumble of politics. People are allowed to insult their opponents, aren't they? Yeah, you would think so. Was he just looking for a reason to get into a punch up with him I think possibly, although the idea of honour matters enormously to American politicians in this period. So juling is not uncommon at all And the punch upps of this kind are not uncommon But I think ultimately you're right that Burr is looking for a pretext. to challenge Hamilton for reasons that maybe we'll get into. I think it's a way for him to he sees it as a way to rebuild his credibility. Anyway, Hamilton sent his answer two days later And Hamilton's answer is extremely long and convoluted. It's hard to tell whether he's a over massively overthinking it B he's basically just making fun of Burr. So he starts by saying, he says, Well, the word despicable. Admits of infinite shades from the very light to the very dark. how am I to judge of the degree intended And then he goes on to say I don remember using that word to this bloke Dr. Cooper, and I refuse on principle to consent to be interrogated as to the justness of inferences which may be drawn from others from whatever I have said of a political opponent in the course of a fifteen year competition. Now people like you Tom. You see Hamilton very much as the hero, The story is a bit of a martyr. I think that's a great letter I think It's important to say this is not at all a conciliatory letter. There's something perhaps a little bit Dantic A little bit smug about Hamilton's letter? No, it's not smug at all. He's been you know, he's been sent a ludicrous letter by a ludicrous buffoon And he's Freaking the pomposity of Bur in a very delicate and engaging way. I think Br is a bit pompous but But I think Hamilton is goading him And Hamilton ends, this last bit is definitely goading him. I trust on more reflection, you will see the matter in the same light with me, if not I can only regret the circumstance and must abide the consequences. Well, The next day Burr writes back again. He says, I've read your letter and I regret to find none of the sincerity and delicacy which you profess to value. Political opposition can never absolve gentlemen from the necessity of her rigid adherence to the laws of honor and the rules of decorum Your letter has furnished me with new reasons for acquiring a definite reply I mean, to be fair to them They wrote good letters than those dates. They did. I mean, it would have been wonderful if the people criticized by Trump responded to him in similar term. If Ted Cruz had written Trump a letter look at this. Rone Santis. Yeah. Low energy Jb Bush Brilliant. I'd love to see a jel in which all these men were fighting, frankly. Maybe in that large cage Yeah in the cage the White house and the White House. They kind of run at each other on motorbikes So the final boss is Joe Biden. Yeah. That would be an unexpected twist. That would be a twist twenty second, the next day, Hamilton replies and it's a much shorter letter. And Hamilton says, lookook, if you want by a definite reply, you want either the direct avowal or disavowal required in your first letter, I have no other answer to give than that which has already been given. And that's basically that There's a bit of back and forth now between Bursmate, Van Ness and Hamilton's friend, Nathaniel Pendleton But in essence, this is the story Burr has asked for an apology. Hamilton has said no And so this is now a matter of honor, which means Jewel So we should say a little bit about jewels. Jewels are part of the they're an essential part really. culture of honour. ammong gentlemen in North America in the late eighteenth, early nineteenth century They weren't universally popular Some of the founding fathers hated deweling. So Franklin He you love He was very anti jeling. He said it was a murderous practice. Well, he's a figure of the Elightenment. He's not going to put up this nonsense. No, Jefferson doesn't like deweling. John Adams doesn't like dueling Butots. If you've been in the army, you tend to light jeweling. If you're from the south, you're much more likely to like jeweling. I mean, it's very hard to get precise figures for jewels because jewels were in many states technically illegal But There's an estimate that of the men who served in the Senate from southern states in the years before the American Civil War, One in five of them had taken part in jewels. I suppose this is all part of the South being the home of Chivalry, isn't it? That's exactly. Yeah. I mean, that's certain of their self image, isn't it? The kind of Lft scores the Confederacy kind of vibe. People in gigantic hats with feathers are fighting jewels or something and talking about Walter Scott Tiring for a mint dulep after. Exactly, exxactly. Well in the background like they've got thousands of people like being treated vulnerably. We'll be coming to that in the next episode as well. So this is how it works. Basically it's very, very formalized. It's a very ritualized business a jewel There'll be the insult There will be the exchange of letters ed the offended party will say, I want you to avow or disavow your insult to me. If the offender refuses to disavow, Then the victim of the insults can challenge. And he and his antagonist will appoint seconds and the seconds will agree a time and place for the duel. Can I just ask? I mean, Hamilton is he is representative of the north really, which isn't a big place for dueling and he's aligned with figures who despise it. Would it not have been politically possible for him just to say G srew yourself, I don't It would, but I think he as we would discuss, he doesn't really like jeweling But I think there would have been a cost to his reputation. As we shall see, one of his rationales for doing the duel is he thinks public opinion would require it of him. He will look like less of a man If he heads turn down the jel. Anyway, the seconds fix the time in the place. We'll talk after the break about how the jewel itself actually works And one reason for postponing that after the break is that most jewels actually don't get to that point So most so called affairs of honor Never get to the point where somebody actually fires a gun It is very typical for the two men to find a solution before then. that will allow them a compromise that will allow them both to preserve Hamilton, who is, of course, as you've said, a very acerbic, very disputious man He has been involved in at least six affairs of honor before. But none of them have got to the point where he actually had to pull the trigger So in other words, they were settled in a compromise. The equivalent in today's America would be threatening to take someone to court And that is so financially ruinous that by and large it gets settled before it comes to court. Yeah, that's a good comparison, actually There's a sort of ritual there's a ritualistic elements of taking somebody to court, isn't there And as you say, to push it to the extreme of a confrontation You know It's so risky. Generally they want that. Right, exactly. Yeah. Now Hamilton knows, he knows more than most people. how risky this is Because in november eighteen oh one, his son Philip had gone into a public row with a bloke called George Eker who criticized Alexander Hamilton And Philip had challenged Ika to a duel. Hamilton said to him, Well, if you're going to go and fight this dewel, I advise you to miss on purpose because then You'll miss and you're the challenger and that will allow the jewel to be settled peacefully, but actually for some peculiar reason This didn't really work out. Basically, when the duel started, both Philip Hamilton and this bke Eca just stood there for a full minute or so notot firing, none of them really knowing what to do And then they both sort of leveled their pistols, Eka fired Philip was wounded and Philip died. And Hamilton was absolutely grief stricken. And I suppose Eliza as well. Yeah, it must have been I mean, she's not going to want toase more people from her family. She No, so given that Hamilton knows the costs Well, this we this comes to your point, your question. Why did he do it So we can understand why Birr did it. Bird did it because he's been uced in the New York Papers, he hass been humiliated by the election result in New York. Burr is very thin skinned, Bur is very arrogant and he wants to rebuild his reputation. But for Hamilton, this is massively high risk. He's got his wife Eliza. he's got seven kids He's got massive debts, so he's just built this country house in Upper Manhattan called the Grange. and it's got orchards and it's got thirty five acres of woodland. It's very nice and he has taken out a massive mortgage to pay for it, which his wife would be unable to repay if he died So he really has very little to gain And what is more He doesn't even agree with deling And we know this because a few days before the duel he wrote a statement on impending duel with Erren Burr And he said in the statement My religious and moral principles are strongly opposed to the practice of dueling. It would even give me pain to be obliged to shed the blood of a fellow creature in a private combat forbidden by the laws. But maybe he just hates her so much that he's prepared to make an exception. He basically says, I can't apologise to B B because I meant what I said, He is despicable. he's terrible. is a threat to the repepublic. But also he says, I have to conform to public prejudice becausecause one day I want to be useful whether in resisting mischief or affecting good in those crises of public affairs which seem likely to happen Basically Hamilton iss looking ahead. He's saying there arere going to be a lot of political ruuctions in the next few years. The survival of the Republic itself is at stake. I need to be popular so that I can have an effect. So I have to fight this duel. So can I have to fight not just for personal honor so that I can have a role in shaping the future of the country. So he agrees to the duel. very high stakes. The mad thing though is they don't immediately get on with it. They just hang around And the reason is the Hamilton is still representing clients in court and the New York courts are going to sit until the sixth of July So they agree that they'll have the duel five days later on the eleventh of July so that he can finish up with his or his clients And what this means is in the meantime Two of them have to go around New York, which of course is not an enormous place in those days They have to hang around New York as though nothing is happening. an independence dayay There's a dinner organized by the Society of the Cincinnati for the former tax reffuse Ns. And they actually sit at the same table at this dinner Another guest who was there said, B Contrary to his want was silent, gloomy sour Well Hamilton entered with glee into the gaiety of a convivial party and even sang an old military song. And this is typical of how they spent their last days before the duel Burr keeps a low profile He writes to his daughter Theodosia, who's got married and he says, let me give you some advice on how to build a library. And he also writes to Theodosia's husband, new husband. and he says I would very much appreciate it if you would allow Theodosia to carry on her studies of Latin and Greek. He should be warming to burn out on. Does he change his will? Yeah, he does, to allow Theodosia to inherit his slaves. See, he's immediately blotted his copybook again, hasn't he? He has done, yeah Now Hamilton by contrast, he he's quite gregarious. He doesn't hang. He doesn't sort of keep himself to himself He goes to dinner parties, he visits his friends He writes a couple of letters two letters to Elizah Farewell letters And he writes that statement about the jewel that I mentioned about how he doesn't know jeweling. And in the statement, he says I've already decided on my tactics I haveve resolved to reserve and throw away my first fire and I have thoughts even of preserving my second fire. and thus giving a double opportunity to Colonel Burr Pause and reflect So This is an interesting thing Because some people say, well, this was obviously Hamilton's intention. this is what he was going to do. So just to be clear what that means, to reserve and throw away my first fire, so he's not going to shoot That's what that means Well he'll throw away his fire. He will shoot, but he will deliberately miss. He'll fire well wider Burr. And what this would mean, this is not uncommon. This would give Burr the initiative but it would also give Ber a chance to say Fair enough, let's shake hands settle this. On the other hand, Hamilton did give his son someilar advice in eighteen oh one and his son came back dead. Has Hamilton not learned his lesson? Clearly, he hasn't. he's done this six times, has he? He has had six affairs of honour but they have not come to the point of shooting at all. So this is his first actual deal. Yeah. And I think Some historians say that the thing with this letter is This statement is designed to be read only in the event of Hamilton's death. So you could argue it's basically a press release be used after his death to blacken Burr's name. that Hamilton is preparing for the worst He making himself look good. making Burr go bad. that might be a very cynical way of looking at it, but anyway, let's get to the towards the jewel Sventh of July four days too Hamilton and Eliza throw a big garden party. They have seventy guests dining outside, they have musicians hidden in the woods, very like succession or something They have all the sort of local federalist big wigs And nobody suspects that there's a duel coming because Hamilton seems ingrateful Two days later, the ninth of July, he leaves the Grange for the last time. He kisses Eliza goodbye. He rides into the city, goes to his townhouse fifty four Cedar Street, Lower Manhattan and he spends the next two nights there. and early the following morning Wednesday the eleventh of july eighteen oh four. He wakes for the moment that will define his life and legacy the climactic Jewel with Aaron Burr believable drama. We will find out what happens. after the break Bonjour, compomadre, it's the How do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget. The priceline app. It's got hotel deals, flight deals, rental car deals, all of those deals in a bundle, deals, game day deals, concert trip deals. No one deals more deals than priceline. Hold your horses, there's more The a let you filter hotels by neighborhood vibe, star level, and amenities like pools and spas and beachfonts and Wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me up slide Sit to the shot, Tempo, hold your finish. Golf is a mental game, but you can't focus if you're not comfortable. 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ElS Lbrchisab LBKZ, a two hundred fifty milligram per two milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children twelve years of age and older, who weigh at least eighty eight pounds or forty kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, alsoso called a topopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin Or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies, EBGLS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to EBGLS. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe, eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. you should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBGLS. Before starting EBGlS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paay partnership with Lily Epect to your time. ask your doctor about EpllS and visit ElS dot com or call one eight hundred Lillily RX or one eight hundred five four five five nine seven nine. This episode is brought to you by the cultural phenomenon Hamilton, The musical. We know, of course, that history is about much more than dates and titles and Constitutional acts, it's also built on and often driven by intense human emotion, fear, pride Abition tragedy, a determination not to pay taxes. And you know that is exactly what Lynn Manuel Miranda ures so superbly in his musical Hamilton It lifts the curtain on the turbulent life of the founding father Alexander Hamilton, from impoverished, orphan and immigrant to brilliant revolutionary two hundred fifty years on from what Americas persist in calling their quest for freedom, the world has absolutely fallen in love with the story of Hamilton. So it's playing in London in the Victoria Palace Theatre in New York, at the Richard Rogers Theatre and it is on tour across North America. So book tickets today at Hamilton musical. com Hello everyone and welcome back to the Rest of History where it is early in the morning of the eleventh of july eighteen oh four and in their respective Manhattan townhouses. Both Alexander Hamilton. Aaron Burgh Unsurprisingly are already up Yeah, so Burr spent the night at his country house in Richmond Hill, Manhattan. so that's between a modern Greenwich village and Soho. was then about a mile and a half from the city of New York Burg got up very early. he put on this black silk coat. And he had himself driven to the quayside on the Rriver Hudson with his friend William Van Ness, who's going to be his second And with a couple of other mates Vaness and Burr rode across the river towards Wehawken, New Jersey. C there and We hawken is the u The chosen jeweling ground. And the reason for this is that although jeweling is forbidden in both New York and New Jersey, the New Jersey authorities are much more relaxed about prosecuting jewels. so you won't get into so much trouble. The men rowing the boat, the Oars men, they obviously know why these blokes are there, but the way this works, the Oars men have their backs to the jewelists throw out so that if they're asked afterwards, they can deny any knowledge, they won't be implicated in it at all Burr and his team arrive at about six thirty AM And they've chosen this spot. It's a kind of ledge of land twenty feet above the river And if you look at New York on a map, it's roughly level with West forty second Street today. And it was a very popular spot for jewelists It was It was only a few minutes walk from the similar spot on the river where Hamilton's son Philip had been killed three years earlier. That must have concentrated his mind We was to see there were a couple of other interesting parallels So Van Ness and another of Burr's mates start clearing the ledge. they clear the bushes away, so they'll give Burr and Hamilton some space About half an hour later, just around seven o'clock. A second boat approaches the New Jersey side of the river and on this boat is Hamilton his second, who is a judge called Nathaniel Pendleton David Hosack who taught medicine at Colombia. Now usually you would have two doctors at a jewel But when the secondeconds discussed it with their principles Burr said, We don't really need two doctors. let's just get one Another bad oent, Hoosack had been on hand The Jewel on the New Jersey side of the river, where Philip Hamilton had been killed That's mad. Yeah, of course it's mad. It's insane. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll have the jelren in the same place where my son was killed. I'll have the same doctor. What could possibly go wrong and I'll row over the Hudsmon Yeah It's kind of like crossing the river sticks. Exactly The whole thing is cemmented So the seconds draw lots to pick sides and they decide who's going to run the juel. And then they hand out the pistols, and the pistols again were chosen by Hamilton. The pistols were made in London by an excellent London gunsmith called Wagdon and Barton And they belong to Hamilton's brother in law, a man called John Barker Church He was British. He was the MP for Wendover and he was married to Hamilton's sister in law, Angelica. So Church, this is a bizarre detail Church The bloker gave them the pistols had actually fought a duel with Br himself. Its seventeen ninety nine and nobody had been injured. These probably weren't the same pistols that Church had used. But Madleie They may well be the same pistols that Hamilton's son had used in his jewel. No. yeah Why would you use the same pistols? Just absolutely insane They're very blingy, these jeweling pistols as jeweling pistols often are They're covered with sort of brass and gold. They fire these balls which were designed jeweling pistols were designed not to be very accurate. Basically the ideal is that you'll just shoot, nobody will be hit, nobody will be killed and you'll both escape with your honour intact and your lives intact The pistols also though have hair triggers A hair trigg you have to set it beforehand And what it means is that you don't have to put as much pressure on as you normally do to pull the trigger. And that means you can keep your hands steadier and you'll be more accurate. Pendleton, Hamilton's second, said to Hamilton beforehand Would you like me to set the hair trigger on your pistol, but not Burs? because that would give you a big advantage And Hamilton said No, not this time Historians have often wondered why Hamilton said this. I think the answer is obvious. Hamilton is very anxious He doesn't want to be accused of cheating because that would be very bad for his reputation. Because the jewel is covered by very strict rules. We talked about the sort of ritual of it before the break. There's a thing called the code duueello. and the code duello runs like this. Basically what you'll do is Imagine you're fighting a duel Wh who would you fight a duel? A fight with you. Okay, fine. We'd walk away from each other for ten paces and then we would turn our seconds A Leah and Tabby or whatever Callam and Dom They would say They would say, Are you ready the second who is running it, Eia is running it. She says Are you ready calls out Present. and present is your signal to fire. You're into it quite quickly. One of you fires first. It doesn't really matter who whoever's quickest. Imagine you fire first. You fire You missed shambles. you're shaking like a leaf. You haven't set your hair trigger. No, or maybe I'm just kind of I'm very cool handed. Yeah, but I'm compassionate and kind Right And I don't actually want to shoot you dead So you've missed so I aim At a kind of angle. att a tree or something, exactly. And I accidentally shoot Callum point right? My second let's say Dom Johnson Tom Johnson counts one to three Fire And then you can shoot me. And now it's my turn to fire. Are you gonna shoot me? I shoot you through the heart I course you would. But maybe I wouldn't If I chose not to then I would lose my turn Now at this point Everybody would kind of reconvene And the seconds would say, have the obligations of honor been satisfied? And we'd probably agree that they had been And that would be the end of their fat So The vast majority of jewels, probably nine out of ten jewels, really worth stressing Do not end in anybody dying Even if you fire the shots because the pistols are designed to be quite inaccurate, you're likely to miss. Generally, the dewelists will agree a deal before a single shot is fired. Who has the choice of weapons? The person who has been challenged, I think. Hamilton literally has chosen the pistols with which his son was shot. Hamilton chosen the pistols. I mean, it would be pretty punchy for Burr to say I'm choosing the pistols But put it past him. The pistol that killed your son. I mean that's really hard So Hamilton and Burr take their positions and at this point it is highly likely that both of them will survive the duel Now here's a funny detail. Hamilton Aims his pistol and then he says stop not to apologize to Burr and settle the duel He says In certain states of the light, one requires glasses puts on these glasses. He makes a great show of squinting through them, aiming his pistol, aiming atiming at Burr, aiming at different things You know, like he's getting his eye in kind of thing. And the puzzle with this is As we know, Hamilton broke beforeh, He said, I'm going to throw away my shot So why is he making such a fuss about getting his eye in? I think Some historians say Well he had a death wish, he was trying to provoke Bur to kill him. I think that's highly unlikely I think he's basically just trolling Bur taunting him is winding him up. Hamilson can't stop himself doing this Finally he's finished And Pendleton The allure of the story Pendleton says Ready Present now If you've seen the musical, will you have seen the musical? Be you saw it about a weeko You will remember Author of the musical Hamilton has been singing I'm not throwing away my shots. but he does throw away his shots at the crucial moment. Hamilton In the musical, he fires into the sky A millisecond later, Burr fires straight at him, he shoots and Hamilton falls That's what happens in the musical, but in reality what happened is much more ambiguous So the two seconds, Pendleton of Van Nes and the Doctor Hosap I've all turned away from the action And the reason they turned away is that if they're caught, they can deny having seen anybody firing A Jewel, really? I was just out for a walk. I didn't birdwing. Yeah All the witnesses agree that when Pendleton shouted presresent There were two shots fired within a couple of seconds of each other And when they looked round Burr was unscathed And Hamilton had been hit just above his right hip them The ball entered him just above his hip in his lower abdomen, It ricocheted off his rib It ripped through his diaphragm and his liver and it lodged in his spine And Hamilton immediately slumped to the ground and he dropped his pistol. So this is the point at which they see what's happened Bur moved towards him straight away. Pendleton said later that Burr had an expression of regret Butur seems it looks like he's going to talk to Hamilton But at this point, Burr's second Van Ness rushed towards him. The reason he rush towards them is that the Oars men have heard the shots and they're coming up the slope to see what's going on. And Van Ness wants to preserve the deniability of the whole thing So rather bizarrely he at this point opens an umbrella which he is carrying and he hides Burr behind the umbrella and sort of hustles him towards the boats so that people can't see him. When they get to the boats, Burr says to Van Ness, I must go and speak to him, meaning Hamilton The fan then says, no, no, no, no, we just have to get out of here as quickly as possible that you've hit him. You've won the duel. let's go Now meanwhile, back on the ledge. to David Hosak has rushed to Hamilton's side And Hoseak described the scene a month later and it's worth quoting this at length He said I found him half sitting on the ground supported in the arms of Mr. Pendleton H countenance of death I shall never forget. He had at that instant, just strength to say This is a mortal wound doctor when he sunk away and became to all appearance lifeless. His pulses were not to be felt, his respiration was entirely suspended, and upon laying my hand on his heart and perceiving no motion there I considered him as irrecoverably gone. I observed to Mr. Pendleton that the only chance for his reviving was immediately to get him upon the water We therefore lifted him up and carried him out of the wood to the margin of the bank where the barge men aided us in conveying him into the boat. So they're into the boat, and Hosack gets spirits and he rubs Hamilton's face with the spirits to revive him And this does the trick. Hamilton opens his eyes, he's conscious And then he says something very interesting. He sees that his pistol is lying in the boat and he says to the doctor Take care of that pistol It is undischarged and still cocked, it may go off and do harm Pendleton knows that I did not intend to fire at him, meaning B Now we'll come back to this pistol because this is part of ' a mystery about this. And then Hamilton closes his eyes, he looks very calm, very peaceful He says to Hosak, How's my pulse? He says I have lost all feeling in my legs And he says Hosak said, he manifested to me that he entertained no hopes that he should long survive But actually Hamilton is wrong. they make it back across the river, they make it back to Manhattan and Hamilton is still breathing And we'll come back to Hamilton in Manhattan in a second, but let's just pause the story to ask What actually happened in those crucial moments in the duel? So the most popular version of events is based on Pendleton's account. this is Hamilton's second And he says The Hamilton aimed his pistol above Burr's head But he did not fire it Bur fired first Burr hit Hamilton And in the shock of being hit, Hamilton accidentally triggered his own gun Ball shot into a cedar tree above Burr's head Pendleton went back the next day and he found a branch that had been shattered by a bullet that was twelve feet above Burr's head And that is why Pendleton says on the boat Hamilton said, Take care of my pistol. It's still loaded it might go off. He didn't actually realize that it had fired He didn't mean to fire it. But Burr's second Van Nest told a different story. He said Hamilton fired first did fire and he missed and had he deliberately missed? Well, this is the question we don't know. Vaness actually thought Hamilton hit Burr at first because he noticed that Burr was limping. And he said to Burrra afterwards, did Hamilton har you Bur said actually know I twisted my ankle when I was getting out of the boat or something. This is what Van Ness said Hamilton fired and missed and Burr then waited did not shoot straight away Burr waited for Hamilton's sorry, for the man running the jewel, Pendleton, to count to three as per the rules But the bloat running the jewel for whatever reason didn't say anything Maybe he was you know caught up in the moment or whatever Burr was worried that he was going to lose his turn And so only after this sort of one, two, three, four, maybe five second delay Did he then shoot Hamilton because he thought, if I don't do this, I'm going to lose my turn and he might shoot me or who knows what happens Different historians take different views on this. Joseph Ellis in his book on theort Fing Father's Generation He thinks this is actually plausible. He thinks that the account by Hamilton second was deliberately twisted to make Hamilton look like a martyr. What's slightly confusing though is if that's true, if Hamilton did fire first it knew he fired first. Why did he think the gun on the boat was still Yeah loaded Again, Joseph Has says, well, maybe he was just in shock or something he didn't realize. I'm not so sure about that. Maybe a way of going through this is to go back to that letter that Hamilton wrote beforehand where he said, I've resolved to throw away my first fire and then my second fire and then give you an opportunity to Bur to pause and reflect I think this is pretty unambiguous and I think it's very plausible that Hamilton did fire first and he ostentatiously missed That seems most likely to me. because that's what he basically said he was gonna to do. Yeah. So then the question is Why does Burr realize this and does Burr just deliberately kill him anyway And the answer hangs on what you think of Burr's character. I know what your answer is going to be straight away. Yeah. He guns him down like a dog. So So Joseph Ellis says There is no way that Burr could have known that Hamilton was deliberately missing. Remember he gave Hamilton a chance to apologize and Hamilton said no. Remember that he's also seen Hamilton do all that business with the glasses You wouldn't do that if you were trying to deliberately miss, maybe So Hamilton's done all that stuff for his classes, you know, practicing his aim and stuff So Ellis says B was completely within his rights According to the principles of the code Duueello, Burr was perfectly justified in taking deadly aim at Hamilton and firing to kill. But Ron Cerno in his book on Hamilton says this is just rubbish Cherno says, Hamilton missed by so much by twelve feet that it was obvious that he did it deliberately And Bur just shot him dead like a dog Br was a terrible man. Cerno says it's telling that Burr said onlyn bring one doctor. Ny for two daughters Some people might think Bur said this because Berr thought no one's going to get hurt anyway. we would't need any doctor erno thinks that Burr wanted to minimize the number of doctors because he wanted to maximize the chances of Hamilton dying So You're obviously team Cherno And actually there is one other clue that backs this up So many years later, Bur lived in exile in London And he became great friends bizarrely. with the utilitarian philosopher Jeremy Bentham. Oh, that is unexpected. It is unexpected. Soay there's side to Bur, Tom that you might have enjoyed. I think Jeremy Bentham's incredibly boring. Well anyway Bentham said of Burr gave me an account of his duel with Hamilton He was sure of being able to kill him, so I thought it little better than murder. In other words, plan the whole thing Now my take on this, do you want to hear my take on this? Yeah, give us your take, Dominate. I think's going be profound take. I think it's the unknowability of history. of course. However, such a libdem response. Oh, no, because I'm now going to say. I think it hinges on your understanding of the characters, the two men The one issue with Burr is his image is so clearly defined by his enemies that we can never really be sure we're seeing him Clearly, But isn't it telling that he has a lot of enemies who want to paint him? And I did compare him with Richard Nixon before. And I think what Br and Nixon have in common is they will You know, they will just do anything They will do what it takes. I mean, if Nixon was in a duel, he'd kill you. I mean Nixon would have shot Kennedy. But actually Kennedy would have shot Nixon, I think as well. I think Nixon and Jimmy Carter duel, that's a duel worth seeing Dewie Carter could accidentally shoot himself in the foot. He hadly would They didn't get attacked by a rabbit. He wouldn't even make it across the river.'d be devoured by by rabbits as he was trying to reach the dueling ground. Nixon would have shot Reagan in a jewel No question Reagan will be telling you a focusy anecdote and then Nixon will just shoot him in the head I mean, Trump would need someone under the tool l. He undoubtedly would. Trump would behave disgracefully. He'd machine gun him. But Trump would behave absolutely abominably in theual And then he'd be unrepentant afterwards Let's get back to the story What happened to Hamilton ack across the Hudson, as I said, Hamilton st still alive. They went to a friend's house at Greenwich Village It's obvious that the Hamilton is dying They get Eliza to come from the Grange with all seven kids and her sister, Angelica, who's staying with her. And this has come as a complete surprise to her. I guess when Hamilton left the house, did he say I'm off to fight a duel? He left her notes and stuff. so maybe she should read them. I don't know. We we just don't know, to be honest. They also got the Bishop of New York, who's a man called Benjamin Moore. and he wrote an account of afterwards what happened Hamilton greeted him. I mean, Hamilton is dying. He's been shot in the chest is in agony, and yet he still manages to say to this bishop. I mean people he was impressive. He said, My dear sir, you perceived my unfortunate situation and no doubt have been made acquainted with the circumstances which led to it It is my desire to receive the communion at your hands. I hope you will not conceive there is any impropriety in my request I mean, there is a reason presumably why he is being so formal with the Bishop whichich is that he wants communion because he's an Episcopian, I think, isn't he? Yes. The bishop might say I can't give it to you because you've been fighting jewels. Yeah. He also surely knows the Bishop's going to write this down about two days later and tell everybody about it He wants to look good And Moore said to him, Should it please God to restore you the health, sir? Will you never again be engaged in a similar transaction? and will you employ all your influence to discountenance this barbarous custom? And Hamilson said, That, sir is my deliberate intention And so This boat gave him communion Hamilton later on, again, with very much, I think, an eye to posterity, said I have no ill will against Colonel Burr. I met him with a fixed resolution to do him no harm I forgive all that happened. That's an excellent way to stamp on perf marker on him. So the following day the twelfth of July, he died at two o'clock in the afternoon. More said he expired without a struggle and almost without a groan And he was buried in the Trinity Churchyard lower Manhattan. you can see his grave today. Now, ironically, you mentioned how he loves the national bank. His management of his own finances was poor He left his family in massive debt So they owed about fifty thousand dollars and if you type that into the measuring worth calculator I mean, that is millions and millions of dollars today. I mean, it's a feature, isn't it of not all the family fathers, Franklin died very rich John Adam was incredibly frugal Washington died with massive debts. Jefferson, as we will see, also has massive debts. I mean No wonder they didn't want to pay tax. Yeah exactly. they didn't have any money. So the mortgage as I said on the Gange was impossible for Eliza to pay However, Hamilton's friends set up a private fund, they bought the Gange and then they sold it to her half price So she was able to live there with her children until eighteen thirty three. She devoted herself to her husband's memory She co founded the Orphan Asylum Society of New York and she died, aged ninety seven, having outlived Hamilton just over fifty years. She didn't marry again. She didn't. She was devoted to his memory Now Burr, what does he get up to? Even before Hamilton died, Hamilton's allies in New York were busy spinning the story blackening Burr's name. They said that basically while Eliza was crying over her dying husband, Burr was celebrating in the Taverns of New York And they claimed that Berr was standing there at the bar of all these different pubs flagon of ail in hand. laughing and saying, I only wish I'd shot him in the heart The drinks are on me. Yeah I mean, this is actually just totally untrue Becauseuseually what happened is that Burr fled New York straight away and went all the way south to Georgia Of course, one thing we haven't really mentioned He's actually still the vice president of the United States. So the only parallel I can think of is Jumember Dick Cheney shot that man in the face Duck shoot Don't go don't go hunting with Dick Cheney because Sho you in the face Thank you Pashi. U Bur' vice president. He goes back to Washington. He's charged with murder in both New York and New Jersey, but the case never came to trial. The reason is they couldn't actually prove it. Oh because all these guys, the boatmen facing the wrong way and things and the umbrellas and stuff. Genius. Brilliant. God passs No were literally no witnesses So his term as Vice president ended eighteen oh five, but obviously his political career is now totally tainted And then in the two years after he left office, Burr becomes involved in this absolutely insane conspiracy. Literally cattalinarian conspiracy. So depending on which version you read, he plotted with southern planters and US. Army officers to create his own country on the US's southern border. But the mad thing about this story is that no one could agree where his country was going to be. What would you call it? Buria? That's a terrible name. Call it Burry Burstan Burst So some people said it was going to be Florida, someome people said it was going to be Northern Mexico, some people said it was going to be moreorthern Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana. It's just not clear at all. Burr, when he was asked, said, I just want to buy myself a nice farm. That's all I've been trying to do. The case actually went to court and he was tried for treason, but it was not proven Basically there were no witnesses at all. and no's no evidence. Maybe they'd all had it with umbrellas again coming in So after this br went into exile in England And then he was kicked out of England because there were rumors that he was planning the conquest of Mexico to set himself up as king of Mexico. He wanted to go to France and Napoleon refuse to allow him it. Like if you're too bad a man for Napoleon The panot said, What This boat's marauding aroundound, taking other people's countries. We can't have that. There's only room for one of these in my country So he wasn't allowed into France. He ended up drifting back to New York. He lived there under a false name to escape his creditors And he died in eighteen thirty six. And there's one little hint Burr regretted what happened So at the very end of his life, he'd had loads of strokes bedridden and he was reading a lot of Tistram Sandy, which is commendable behaviour And he said, I think this really is to his credit If I had read Lawrence Sternmore and Voltaire Less, I should have known that the world was wide enough for Hamilton and me. And that's a lesson to our listeners that if you have the choice of Lauren Sttern of Voltage should always read Lauren Sttern. And if you want to challenge some to a deal, think again Right, exactly. So I mean, Br was a very clever man and he was very brave in the war. But he's very rarely ranked among the founding fathers. He's seen as one of American History's great villains. But of course, that's not the case for Hamilton. Hamilton becomes a marty There are sorts of cities and counties named after him. There's Hamilton Heights in New York. And he's been on the ten dollars bill since nineteen twenty nine However, Hamilton is not really as famous because he wasn't president as Jefferson, Adams, Washington, and so on. And so in twenty fifteen, the departments at the Treasury wanted to have a woman on the currency. Who are they going have? Abigail Adams. No, But it's gott to be a founding mother Isn't Abigail Adams the founding mother? She just people the people do talk about his founding mother, but Harry Balen digital guru correctly says Harriet Tubman Howrt Tuban was going go onto the currency. Possibly it could have been Rosa Parks or someone, I suppose. Anyway they were going put a woman on and they said, Well, obviously the person to make way is Hamilton He's not as famous as the others as he wasn't president But then just two months after that, Hamilton, the musical transferred to Broadway And it became a big cultural phenomenon. And the Treasury Department of the Treasury changed their mind and said actually we'll keep Hamilton after all. I mean, the thing is they wouldn't be a federal bank if it wasn't for Hamilton. So Right. What I would have done is this. First of all I'd keep Hamilton on the currency, but I think to be true to the spirit, if you want to be slavish to the musical and to the story Be true to the spirit of it. Bur on as well and have them on either side leveling pistols at each other, right? The other thing is people may say, what is Samar not want a woman on the currency You are wrong. I do want a woman on the currency. And I know exactly who I would take off. I would take off a man who in his lifetime owned more than six hundred human beings, a man of the most shameless and repulsive hypocrisy And that man is the man we'll be talking about next time And that is, of course Thomas. Jefferson and in that episode we will be exploring the full complexity Oh the man who I think is the most remarkable the most Tid of all the founding fathers But I'll say the most morally compromised, I guess And members of the Rest of Street Club can hear that episode right away. It's sitting there waiting for you And if you're not a member of the club and you would like to hear Thomas Jefferson and also Dominant's a whole range of supplementary benefits. incredible benefits. We must never forget the supplementary benefits then go to the rest of history. com and also be able to get the incredible newsletter So than you Dominic, Thankks, everyone for listening. Bye bye. Be Domick since it's the summer, I've obviously been thinking a lot about cricket. However, I am aware the World Cup is on as well. and so occasionally football intrudes on my mind as well. And so I've been thinking about what my historical dream football teams would be. And who would be in your historical dream team? I've numbered it down to four what I think would be the classics And they are, of course, the Aztecs The Royal Navy, we've got to have the Royal Navy. Oustrro, Hungary And of course Ancient Rome. I mean, it's an amazing coincidence because The rest is history have just launched football shirts for those very teams. So if the are people out there who want to know what Kao Tamok would have worn during the siege of Tonostchitlan or Nelson, this is your chance to find out. And how would one Bluntly, me, how would I my hands on onene, two, three, or perhaps all of these bespoke kits. You would want to head as quickly as possible to the rest ishistory. com and you go to the merch tab, then you would be able to preordder one of these fantastic limited edition shirts. Would there be a way of personersalizing these shirts I'm going to make you so happy now because actually they would. Each shirt can be personalized with a choice of historical figures, the big names from that particular team. So for example, the Royal Navy, you can go for Horatio Nelson or Emma Hamilton. You can go for Franz Ferdinand or Sophie for the Austro Hungarian Empire, for the Aztecs, you can go for Qwal Tamok Monteuma or Malinche. Okay, they sound Absolutely brilliant Pfect way for our beloved listeners to celebrate the World Cup I will certainly be heading to the website and clicking on the merch page