Media Bias and the Future of Journalism

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Alert your doctor right away has difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, astma symptoms and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Luarig's disease, Myasthenia Gravis or Lambd Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects Why wait? askk your doctor, visit Botoxchronicmigraine. com or call one eight hundred four four Botox to learn more. Hello and welcome to the Rest is Politics, US with me, Katy Kay. And me, Anthony Scaramucci. goodood morning, Katy. So Anthony, how are you spending Monday evening? The only thing by the way, for all of our listeners around the world that anyone in the States is interested in right now particularly anyone in New Yorkity is interested in right now is Well, I'm going to the Nick final, but unfortunate look, but Trump's going also to the Nick final. so he's He's got the entire city on lockdown So you know say Levi raining on New York's parade. Yeah, it's all good. you know, no problem. I just said didn't I didn't want my kids to miss it, so I bought the tickets. We're ready to go. Let's go New York. everyveryone's gonna be excited. But in the meantime Yes, are we Fighting Katy, tellell me how you define a ceasefire. The president says, well, you know, a ceasefire in the other side of the world may or may not be a ceasefire. a few bombs here and there. I thought that was just a very interesting way of saying other people do things differently from how we do them. Tell me how do you define a ceasefire and do are we in a ceasefire right now, Katy Kat? I think what matters is Countries that are fighting not the geographical location of the ceasefire. I'm just going to posit it a bit like that. So if the United States is fighting, whether it's in the Middle East or in Latin America or in the United States or in Asia, a ceasefire is a ceasefire is a ceasefire, this doesn't seem to be one. So we're going to be talking about that in the first half of the program and whether Donald Trump has just boxed himself in in such a way that he's got to try and put pressure on Israel. He desperately doesn't want to get back into a fighting match with Iran. his options, his roadmap for getting out of this thing, a lot of those exits seem to be blocked at the moment and they're blocked by decisions of his own making In the second half, we're going to talk about Donald Trump's interview with Meet the press on NBC that ended in a walkout after a rather contentious debate over, yes, the twenty twenty election and the january the sixth riot. Good, I want to talk about that with you, because you're the media person, I just play a media person on the spodcast, but you're the media person. I I really want to understand NBC, CBS mainstream news media, where are things going in this country and around the world. And what is the discussion about how to handle Donald Trump, and why is it that He has now been on our radars since twenty fifteen. But I still think we haven't quite figured out how to handle somebody who routinely lies to journalist faces Okay, so let's start though with what is happening in the Middle East and this ceasefire that is not a cepiral. mayaybe it is a ceasefire, but it depends on how much pressure Iran is going to put on Israel and how much pressure Trump is going to put on Israel as well. So where do you think We are, Anthony because I think This is one of those moments where we seem to have rode back from a huge amount of escalation. We had this situation where the Israelis hit Beirut The Iranians had signaled they wouldn't tolerate that. So the Iranians hit Israel. Israel then retaliated against Iran, but in a fairly limited way after Donald Trump called Benjamin Netanyahu and says, Do not burn Tehran to the ground, which is what some Israeli politicians were asking for and calling for And I thought it was such an interesting moment where you had Donald Trump making major international policies that affected his America's allies, but how was he doing it? He was doing it by answering journalists phone calls again Every time there seems to be a moment of tension in the Middle East and things flare up again, Donald Trump, of course, gets a string of phone calls from reporters in Washington, DC. And what does he do? He tells those reporters what he is about to tell Benjamin Netanyahu So Netanyah who hears it from the fininancial Times or from Axios, exactly what Trump is going to do. And I think that it's symbblematic of the kind of chaos in the decision making This is malpractice from a diplomatic standpoint. to be answering phone calls and announcing your policy to journalists before you've told your ally what the policy is going to be That is perhaps not the only thing we need to take away from this incident. What did you make of it peopleople let You want to really understand Donald Trump, whatever the norms are I'm above those norms and so it doesn't matter. So if the norms are talking to my allies quietly talking to my adversaries quietly Well, I'm not going to do that because those are the norms. And so I am telling you everybody prior to me is a dummy and every procedure and protocol that's happened before me is ill advised and dumb. And so only I am the person that's able to do things. And so therefore I'll do the things exactly the way I want them, whatever I want them And your job is to be in the sidec with me and do exactly what I want when I want them And so that's the biggest problem here. But I want to go to the Israelis for a second because The Israelis are definitely not on Trump's page. And you know that and I know that. And so Israelis are like we're being threatened by Hezbollah in the north from Lebanon. These guys want to take us out with a nuclear weapon likely The Prime Minister of Israel, we can debate his strategy because I think he's hurt the Israeli brand. If I'm being honest, it's not antisemitic to say that. okay. I'm proseemite. But I think he's hurt the Israeli brand because of the way he's approaching things. There's no delicacy to what he's doing And so the Israeli position right now is going to back the deal but he's still going to shoot missiles into Lebanon. And that's not going to work, Aaddy. So so for me You're not going to get a Hezbollah carve out of this thing. You're either going to have a ceasefire and the stuff's going to end But I think Net Yng is in a terrible position because I think he's boxed in from both sides, you know The opposition leader is accusing Netanyahu of failing. to secure Israel's demands as part of the ceasefire That's Yar Lapid. He's got the ultra Orthodox cooalition, which has been with him the whole time. super mad at him because if they feel like believe it or not, he's been too weak on this stuff So so reconcile for me the relationship between Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump. and the triangulation with Iran And why? and again, I'll just state my opinion first, I don't think they get to a deal anytime soon. No, I think okay, so I think that's the one thing we can take away from this is that there is not a deal coming anytime soon and we can get to oil markets reactions to all of this in a second because I do want to ask you about that. But I think Iran has imposed a new equation on the region. just in the last forty eight hours Trump has made it completely clear that he has run out of patience with fighting. He has said as much, I was getting bored. The whole process was getting boring. He wants this whole thing over And the message there to Iran right now after that phone call that Donald Trump had with Netanyahu yesterday saying, do not strike back. Do not make this another big escalation. The message to Tehran You can strike Israel without retaliation, without the risk of Israel retaliating against you, because Donald Trump will protect you At the moment, American gas prices are shielding Iran from retaliation by Israel That is a phenomenal turn of events Imagine if that had been Barack Obama Imagine if Barack Obama had protected the Ayatllers against America's number one ally in the region, Israel. because of high gas prices because that's effectively what happened in the last twenty four hours. Let's go to that things because I think this is very important. Why is Trump treated differently than Barack Obama Because if I listed everything that Trump has done, And I said, Barack Obama did these things Washington would be on fire Washington would be on fire. Yeah. And I would say actually and it's pointed out very often by the Obama team Barack Obama was America's first black president and his room for manoeuver was much more limited in terms of what acceptable from Okay, the mainstream from the press. from the Republican partarty And I think there's some justification to that But I don't know that it was just Barack Obama. I chose Barack Obama there. But if Joe Biden had done that, he would have been hammered as well, particularly by the Republican Party. And the real biggest difference is It's not just the press It's more that Donald Trump controls the Republican Party. And so even though you have hawks in the Republican Party who are appalled at what they're seeing, you have staunch Israel allies in the Republican Party who are appalled at the idea that Israel does not have a right to defend itself in this situation Donald Trump owns the Republican Party. That's the single biggest difference. The single most powerful driver here is that Donald Trump owns his party. Okay, I want to take you into the Tp US situation room. Oh, good, okay. Okay, And now we're going we both being promoted? Do we have like buttons and stuff we can press? You're the one that's promoted, okay,, No one's letting me hear any buttons, Gty,kay Ask my wife. I'm not allowed near any buttons, not even the ignition. I barely allowed to the N next game this evening without, you know, escort. Not even allowed to the ignition in my car, We're in the situation room. We're in the tripS situation room And I'm going to pit something and then I need you now to make the decisions. Okay, ready? Yeah So we are sitting here. Iran attacked Israel, Israel attacked Iran. That's this morning's news. And then Iran announces that they're done attacking Israel Yeah, I saw that. Okay. so now I am going to posit to you that there's a fiftycent to fifty five percent chance. that we have a limp along deal where we get to a perpetually fragile non war So it's sort of like a MOU frozen transactional relationship where they they go for sixty days without fighting And I'm going to now say to you three things. you tell me if you agree with any of them because I was working on this this morning Iran, everybody that I talk to on Wall Street, all the analysts in the Middle East that I'm close to They are economically battered Okay, they definitely need to sell oil Okay. so they cannot afford a real war at this point if they're just going to be honest with everybody Trump also needs oil to be under one hundred dollars. Okaykay? He's got to get this inflation down before the midterms and they're feeling the pinch So for those two reasons, I do think We are in a you know, quagmeire, but we're in sort of a stalemate, which could reduce prices. But here's the spoiler, Kaddy, and here's the question, Israel's a spoiler It's the one party been restrained here rather than empowered And they've got a political tug of war going on inside the country about what they should do and how they should deviate from the United States And so what would you recommend to President Trump to get Israel onside Trump is running out of options in the region And Iran has exposed his lack of power in the region But the one lever of real power that he does still have in this conflict is his ability is to restrain Israel. By calling up journalists and telling them what he's doing He's kind of giving Iran a live feed of American decision making process during a shooting war He's also burning some bridges with Benjamin Netanyahu, but Benjamin Netnanyyah who can't Mr. President actually do very much at all without American support, it needs American search and rescue, it needs American refueling. it needs American logistics. So when Donald Trump tells the Financial Times, my friend Ed Luse at the Financial Times, who's one of those journalists who's got his numbers and just calls him up I call all the shots in a way Donald Trump is right. Yes, there was a small retaliation, but it was a kind of kabooky retaliation America calls the shots when it comes to Israel For Netanyahu, this is a disastrous situation because he's looking at the choice between Staying out of prison by being re elected, it is existential for him He's got to win that election But in order to win that election, he's got to be tough on Iran And yet there is Donald Trump who is so desperate not to have a resumption of fighting that he is saying You can't do that, which means that Netanyahu could be pushed into a position where he has to admit electoral defeat at home because Trump has made it very clear he's not going to resume this fighting. and he's not going to let Israel screw it up for him. So if I want to manipulate Trump Because what we know now is that he's calling journalists and he's freeforming and effectively laundering the strategies of the American government And so if I want to manipulate Trump Um, How do how do I do that? Because you know, what's happening here If you're Netanyahu, you mean? Netanyahu. Yeahah. even even the Iranians, but you know, he's hing the counterparties, both Netanyahu and Iron, frankly, a free read on his psychology So how would you manipulate him if you could Well, first of all, I wouldn't have him caught speaking to journalists. I mean, I really wouldn't I don't he's gonna do that anyway.' going to do that. mrter President, I'd like you to stop speaking to journalists. You're hurting our ability to get the peace. F you and you're fired after eleven days, I'm going to continue to speak to journalists. Okay, so so but then what what would you do? Recognizing that you have Trump in power And you recognizing that this is the disaster that is Donald Trump. So what would you do? I think you need to get to two things, right? You need to create space for the negotiations to succeed And that's going to mean a couple of things. One is that the Iranians are going to have to have some kind of upfront payment. Like you say, they're running out of money They need money now. sanctions relief won't cut it. The return on that is going to take too long. They need some assets unfrozen. So you need Trump to get to a position where he can describe unfrozen assets as being the very opposite of what Barack Obama did when he gave Iran unfrozen assets You're gonna have to trick him into thinking there is a way to sell unfrozen assets, Iranian assets back to Iran as a win because without that, I don't see how he gets a deal And he really wants a deal The trouble is he's gone around telling everyone who will listen in Washington, including members of Congress I have spoken to that the one thing he doesn't want is money going to the Iranians up front He's going to have to swallow that has to be on the table if you want to get some kind of a deal. otherwise diplomacy is not going to work. So he's going to have to be able to present himself and you're going to have to give him the language to present himself as the master negotiator who managed to get the Iranians to reopen the Strait of Hormuz for very little money that was theirs anyway. while we got access to the nuclear dust that they had already agreed to water down. Well, I mean, for me, okay, I'm going put myself in the Israeli position here for a second, recognize everything I know about Trump. I would go to Trump and say, listen I'll trade the Lebanon front You want the deal. I get that. You're telling everybody no nuclear weapons, no nuclear weapons. nuclear dust, Baa I would say, hey, I'll trade the front. The Hezboah strikes for more definition and more delineation. on getting the nuclear material out of that country which ironically we had under Obama. But let me just explain because If I can get it out of the country, My position inside of Israel is I'm eliminating the nuclear threat. We're always going to be at war here. Our neighbors and us for whatever reasons since nineteen forty eight are fighting each other. but I don't want to get wiped off the map. And so for me, That would be the move. There's four hundred and forty kilograms of uranium. And I would definitely Push push for that And you'd find a way to make Trump accept that he's going to have to pay some money up frront. I he's going to have to pay to get the straight open. That's just what that's just what it is and he's going to have to accept that. Yeah. Well he he he hates that because he watched Fox News ten twelve years ago. and when Obama was doing that, that they were all agghast at that You know, that's the real politic, Katdy. They all would tell you this. Kennedy, Eisenhower. Roosevelt. Churchill would have tell you this only so much power that we have And there's only so much influence that we have on the rest of the world. And whether you're Von Metternick or Henry Kissinger you pick it, you have to balance the powers And you have to put everybody in a position where they have a slight Political win, even your adversary Okay, and There's been a few unconditional surrenders. The Nazis in nineteen forty five, the Confederate Army in eighteen sixty five But that's not this Okay, there's not going to be Trump called for an unconditional surrender of Iran Good luck, unless you're going to put one million ground troops on the ground. And you're going to bomb them into the stone age, which nobody has the will for that's also not going to happen. So so to me, if I'm if I'm Trump I'm trying to get the deal done I'm going to pay the money Kaddy even if it may even if it even if it's something I don't like or don't want to do. So I think the other thing that I would do in our situation room our little Rest is politics situation room. There would be a big sign on the door, Anthony saying Lindsey Graham. Ted Cruz You are not welcome here becausecause the hawks, whilst there is no deal, the haawks are finding space, whether it's Hwks in Tehran or hawks in Washington or Hawks, in Jerusalem The haawks are finding space to push for escalation And that's why we need a deal done soon Because they are circling and they are the ones that are trying to ramp this up again because they don't want the deal. So we need to get the deal done, which means Trump swallowing a bit of humble pie and realizing what he has to do I don't think, Anthony, I think you and I both agree, it sounds like this morning I don't think we are anywhere near a deal Even though President Trump has done his usual, let's juice the Monday morning markets thing of post y on trruth social that a deal is very close. By my reckoning, that is like the fifth iteration of this thing of America of Trump saying that the deal is close and then the deal is nowhere near close and it all falls apart. And the Iranians walk away? I agree, But he doesn't need he's going to say that because that's Donald Trump He doesn't need the deal, Kaddy. What he needs is the freeze. What he needs is the stalemate And what he needs is to let them sell some oil get some of our Gf allied tankers opening up straight Yeah. But that is at this point, Anthony, that's the deal. I mean, nobody's thinking that there's going to be some big nuclear deal announced. All we want at the priority at the moment is to get the straight open. Okay, here's my question for you before we go to break At what point does the smart investor money start realizing that when Donald Trump says that there is a deal near probably hiding something and we are not near a deal. Okay, so it's a great question, but you have to understand how the markets work. The markets are working off of the notion That Trump is going to pump the market on Monday Exactly what he did this morning So trraders getting up on Sunday, M, I've got buddies of mine They sit at these huge trading turrets and they have literally screened dedicated to Trump's truth social And they have, you know, bling, bling, bling notifications the minute Trump says something on his true social, but you know, the fever and the circuit that you're seeing right now is not going to break anytime soon because They're trading off of Trump's information the same way he is. You sayar to me And that's just people saying, okay, and that's unbelievable amounts of cynicism, but that's just the way This is the way it works, way it works in the markets. And so People getting up on Monday and they it's too late. They got to get up on Sunday And they've got to look at what the hell's going on and get ready for the Tokyo market to open, Hong Kong market to open and trade the Trump tweets. And that's what they've been doing. But oil was up, right? in the Asian markets because they've seen what's happening. Yeah. But I't I don't think we have any resolution to this for several months. But I do think you're going to get the straight open or partially open. And you're going to get the oil prices into an equipoise And I think you're going to have a cold pece on this situation, but you're not going to have a resolution because Trump doesn't want to pay the money because of the tarring that he'll get that he's Obama light that Yahoo doesn't really want it to one hundred percent stop either because of the political coalition That's fracturing before him And the Iranians don't care. They just want to be able to sell oil. so they can try to get their economy revived. And so that if you if you take those three points of the triangle, That's a sixty day freeze. Let some oil through the straight and we'll be in this sort of weird equaoise. I had a conversation over the weekend with an international economist who had been studying the Red Sea and the Strait of Hormuz. and he was saying that he doesn't think the Strait of Hormuz is ever going to go back to the kind of transport flows that it was before the war. because if you look at what happened in the Red Sea, when the Houthis started bombing tankers, hitting tankers in the Red Sea, actually the traffic has never picked up fully even when they stopped doing so. And I think that the legacy that Trump has given the world of this war It's not going to be a peace deal or necessarily even a successful nuclear resolution, it's going to be a permanent inflation tax on the global economy the Iranians have just put in their back pocket because they know they can shut the straight at any time once they've had a chance to rebuild themselves and rebuild their own economy and rebuild their own military supplies. But I think he's changed the right wing propaganda on this Be when you listen to Fox News or these other people and they just want you to go hard at the Iranians and you know, beat them up like it's a sports team. I think he's now change the narrative, which is this is a way more complex situation U And so even the Fox News pundits They can't seem to get around the fact that the realities are there's just only so much that the Americans can do. and I'll just take you back to the Tanker Wars, nineteen eighty F to nineteen eighty eight, very similar situation, very tight parallels where, you know we had to reluctantly escort commercial shipping out of there And I think that's where we're going to be. you know, the next president, Katy. will be sitting here saying, okay, well, Trump left me a mess How do I quietly resolve this with the Iranians so that I can have free flowing oil and goods and services coming through the strait. and that will be That will be done without talking to journalists. That's my prediction. That willll be done in a subterranean sort of a way. Okay, I'm going take a break and come back and talk about That extraordinary interview with Meet the Press. Anntony, you have a few kids I imagine you're looking forward to Father's Day. It's a special day in the UK. also here in the US. and look as a dad myself, I wanted to give our listeners a quick tip This year Why not give your dad a membership to the restestless politics US. And because we love all the dads out there, those who send us questions who are in our founding members club, those who come to our shows and come up and speak to us afterwards, we are offering a twenty five percent discount on an annual gift membership. I mean, come on, Gaddy, what dad wouldouldn't want our exclusive foundounding members Q and A our members only minis series, ad free listening, early access to our live shows ticketing and much, much more. Just head to the rest ispoliticsUS. com. you can click on gifts and the gift will land straight in your dad's inbox right on Father's Day. It's an excellent Father's Day present I would know. go to the restess pololitics US. com Click on something to make your dad a founding member. Happy Father's D everybody Happy Fall this day. Did you know about one in three people with plaax poriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling this sound like you Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away Fr Fia Gusomab taken by injection is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plae psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriatic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms or if you need a vaccine Imagine being a million miles away Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about trymphyia. Tap this ad to learn more about trimmphayia, including important safety information Some follow the noise Bloomberg follows the money Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings There's a money side to every story. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now at blloomberg. com Welcome back to the Rests Politics US. with me, Anthony Scaramucci and Katie Kay. Katy. NBC. Crooked. Crooked NBC. Yes. They spent a lot of money to fly out to Wisconsin. There was an event with farmers out there and they were trying to get that one on one interview with with the president And Kristin Welker was asking him normal questions. I didn't think they were crazy questions. I watched watch the interview, but he didn't like it. U twowo things about that interview that I think people should be aware of. Trump threw down the microphone. You could hear him crunching the microphone as he stepped on it U But when he got up He's not doing squats, Katdty K When Trump got up, he was wobbling out of the seat and he was in an awkward stoop as he walked away because they had the boom mics ahead above them. You can't see that in the shop, but they did. I didn't like his mobility. I'll just tell you that. Yeah. That was not a springy guy there. So look, so here's what happens. They do this interview. It's interrupted by the rain. They keep referring to the rain. Trump is clearly getting irritated with the rain. Even Trump can't stop the rain, but he wants to do the interview. So he does the interview. They cover a whole load of things And then at the end of the interview, they get to the weaponization Fund and Donald Trump gets into january the sixth and how he would like to help those people because they were ushered in by the FBI I think anyone who watched the images of january the sixth knows that what we saw actually was not FBI agents. And anyway, this was the Trump presidency, not that Biden presidency at this point, so it was his FBI, but I did not see FBI agents calmly ushering rioters in what I saw instead was police you know having their literally having their heads squeezed between doorways and being attacked by these rioters. And from then on For the next ten minutes, the whole interview disintegrates and it becomes Kristen Welker doing good job, I thought, of trying to push the president to produce the evidence for his favorite bug bear that the twenty twenty election was stolen And there's a back and forth and she says, but show me the evidence. There is no evidence, show us the evidence. There have been sixty four court cases. There was no evidence He's not buying any of it, and eventually he pulls off his microphone and says, okay, I'm done and walks out. He has a history by the way of walking out of interviews. He's the only person, fun fact here. Did you know he was the only person as far as I know to walk out of an AllieG interview with Sasha Byron Cohen. He kind of got the joke and after a few minutes said, okay, I'm done with this. But anyway, he did that There's a couple of things here that I think are worth talking about. One is How do journalists handle Donald Trump When you have the president of the United States on television, saying that the twenty twenty election was stolen sayaying The California election count, which is currently being counted, is corrupt and crooked Do you stop the interview Do you focus on one of the lies and just make sure your audience knows It is a lie that the FBI ushered in rioters. It is a lie that the California interview is election process is crooked and rigged. It still surprises me. and it's one of the reasons why I'm just never sure if I would like to interview Donald Trump because you unless you spend your whole time playing fact checker you're doing your audience a disservice because he does. he lies.'s he is clearly in that meet the press interview What's he actually doing in that interview that matters? It's not so much the relitigation of twenty twenty or even of january the sixth He is laying the groundwork for being able to say that the California election that's taking place at the moment was stolen And he's laying the groundwork for being able to say the midterm election is stolen if it doesn't go the way I want it. Give more context, so So what's going on in California and tell us how the president is breeding and feeding that sort of uncertainty. So California has as their officials would say, a slow count process. You are allowed to have your ballot counted in California if you've mailed it in and it is postmarked day of the election So any ballot that arrives into the election houses, counting rooms that is postmarked from the day of the election on the day of the election, that can be counted, even if it arrives four days later. California mail can be slow postal service has been pretty degraded over the last few years, so it's even slower So they are literally still counting. It can take six, seven days. That's the nature of California elections. It will take six, seven days in November because of this system that they have. And Kristin Welken was saying that to the presresident. That is the California system. It's rigged, it's crooked That is the California system. They count the ballots, they count everything that arrives that has been postmarked. on the day of the election itself. it takes time. But he doesn't buy it. What he's wanting to say and he says it with such certainty, it's rigged, it's being stolen is what he's saying. He's setting up process whereby he can say if I don't win and he sees his candidates as proxies for himself If I don't win then the election was stolen. But actually this is just maybe it's a dumb system. Maybe you don't like the system. Maybe they shouldn't accept mail in ballots that arrive after election day. and you have to just get your act together and post them you know two weeks beforehand But that's not the system So given that we have the system we have You want to try and do all you can. I think to make pe sure people believe in the integrity of the system because what Donald Trump is doing is undermining public belief in democracy. And that's his goal. He's winning at that. He's been very successful at that because a lot of people I've grown very cynical. And you know, and I've said this, would have almost been better off for America in the world if he had won in twenty twenty because if he won in twenty twenty He'd already be out the pasture and we wouldn't have had this insurrection and we would to had this electoral stress where he's challenging the integrity of all of our elections and he's making people feel that the You know, there's a quot unquote rig system. I want to flip back to the journalists for a second, Katy Do you remember Bernard Coldberg? Do the nameam sound familiar Okay, so Bernard Goldberg worked at a place called CBS News, which is considered the Tiffany network And he worked for Dan Rather, who was the anchor at CBS News and many others And he wrote a book about fifteen years ago called Bias BIA S and it was his interpretation that CBS News had a liberal bias to it And he articulated all the things that he saw at CBSews. He became a nonfiction best seller in the United States. He went on and did many interviews topic and obviously CBS newews refuted it, etcer. But my question to you as a journalist, someone who has been around for three decades, Mainstream news, is it biased, Katdy? Is it tilted to the left So I would say it's less that it's tilted to the left, Anntony. but I do think and I've heard this from conservatives for years around America that they've lost the big institutions of democracy like universities and the press to liberals and that it's skewed against them And I think in one respect, they're right And that is that the major newspapers and broadcasters of the United States have their headquarters in New York and Washington and Los Angeles. They do not have them in Kansas or Oklahoma or even Texas. And that produces a consensus in the editorial rooms of those media organizations that is generally pro globalization, pro elites, pro education, just all of those people in those editorial boardrooms tend to come from elite universities have more of a global flavour, they probably are more likely to lean democratic because we know that ninety percent of people with university degrees end up in cities and they tend to vote more democratic But I think it's as much post of America being out of touch with the heartland of America as it is a deliberate bias because I do think having worked in news organizations for a long time that journalists of reputable organizations by and large, don't always get it right, but they really try to be fair I think they have a real commitment to that. Donald Trump does not try to be fair In twenty sixteen, his rallies were a kind of playbook. It was like the greatest hits. The first thirty minutes would be how wonderful he is. The next thirty minutes would be the press can't be believed, they're all rigged. and the last thirty minutes would be an attack on Hillary Clinton. And it was a deliberate strategy. If you undermine the public's belief in the press, even if the press is doing a good job Then you can say that the election was rigged and you can say to people, don't believe it just because you read it in the press because the press after all is rigged So I think it's very cynical what he's doing when he attacks the press. And yes, he's playing on some prejudices and beliefs that people have that the press had become skewed against them. and didn't represent their values. but I think it's also he is being far more cynical on that. he is just deciding that if I make people distrust the press, then when the press tells them I've lost the election They won't believe the press. They'll believe me Scott Pelly Is he liberal? And just for those of you who may dont know who Scott Pelli is. He was just recently fired by CBS News. He was one of the lead correspondents on probably their most successful news program, sixty Minutes which had a banner year last year, over two hundred million dollars of advertising revenues flowed into sixty minutes, but he got fired because he wasn't telling the line for Barry Weiss and some of the other at sixty minutes. Well and he confronted his boss in a way in a public meeting that I don't know. I think most people would probably think you're going to have some kind of retribution, some kind of come upance for doing that. A he liberal Probably. Okay, with a small L So to me This is the genius of Donald Trump and people, please pay close attention If I'm looking at it as objectively as possible, Katy gave you a great answer, but I'm not a news person. If I just on the outside. I would say lowercase L, the mainstream media at the big networks does have a lower case L liberal bias. okay? It's just not as far to the left as Fox News would tell you or Donald Trump But it's a lowercase al But you see that fact Caddy allows a lot of space for Donald Trump to maneuver it. Okaykay? And so that's where he gives out this big chant. But it's not just that. I don't think it's just that, Anthony. because Trump rails against and we've said this before, Trump wants one hundred fifty percent loyalty ninety five percent ability is a not enough. He wants the My pillow network everywhere, right So he will trash Fox newews if Fox News has one item that doesn't agree with him. Yeah. This is not about whether Americans have a legitimate grievance about being excluded from liberal institutions. Conservative Americans have a legitimate grievance. This is about loyalty to Donald Trump and nothing else. Otherwise, why does he go after those networks that generally support him? which he does? I agree with you.cause his attitude is anybody that's against me, I'm going to obliterate. And he's been doing that successfully for five decades. so' giveiven the credit Katy, do you remember the incident between Dan Rather And George Herbert Walker Bush, it happened thirty eight short years ago vaguely remember Well, I know I'm remembering the more recent Dan Rather incident that was the one that got him moved out of CBS newews. He told a story about George Walker Bush on the news that was not factually accurate and it wasn't sourced well damaged him. But this happened in january twenty fifth, nineteen eighty eight He's hitting him on the Iran Contra affair Okay, I'm bring this up for a reason. Just stay with me Bush retorts to him and says, Well, you walked off the set for seven minutes, which rather was sometimes petulant He goes, I wouldn't want your career defined by that seven minute walk off any moreore than I want my career defined by the mistakes that we made in that one off thing called I rean contra And this boosted Bush. this this was like, oh my God, Bush is in a wimp. lookook at the way he took on Dan Rather and it helped him get to the nomination for the president And the reason I'm bringing this up is Donald Trump understands this better than anybody If you have a journalist that's asking pointed questions, And again, even if those questions are true and even if they're moderate questions or lower case L questions If you press the nuclear bomb, on the journalist Possession bias is towards you, Katy K. Am I right? Yeah. 'ause nobody likes journalists. Okay Okay. so so that is the motif that Trump is doing. Don't say that, Katdy, you're a journalist. I like you Okay, you're probably everybody's favorite journalist, by the way. Can I give actually the cynical interpretation of what is happening with CBS newews and sixtyinutes. Please, I'm I'm dying to hear but I just try to explain motif of Trump. Oh go ahead. Yes. And I think you're right that this has been an easy this has been an easy stream for Donald Trump to mine I just think we have to be careful separate what have been legitimate grievances that some conservatives Americans have had in the Heartland of America about not having their voices represented in the American press from what is a very cynical manipulation of the public to stop believing the press so that you can then say the twenty twenty election was stolen, January the sixth was a day of patriots walking on the Capitol and being ushered in by the FBI. Right? I mean, I think let's not conflate the two things because one of them is a disastrous If we keep going down that road, it's going be it's going to undermine our democracy. I think actually behind all of this is something very cynical and this is just a win for Larry Ellison From his point of view, this is about tryrying to make sure Paramount can buy The Warner Bothers get that deal through. and so he needs So Barry Weiss needs to make him happy and make sure that CBS newews looks a little bit more Trump compliant so that there'll be less regulatory hurdles to that deal I think this is just about business and making money. So I have nothing to say there because I think that is the exact right narrative, and I'm one in one hundred percent agreement with you In the end Guys, follow the money. Follow the money How many times we said that on this program? Amen. Before we go, everybody, I want to quickly remind you about our foundounding members miniseries, The Truth About Donald Trump's health Katdy Trump turns eighty on Sunday, my God Okay, which means we probably have eighty more years to go with Donald Trump, but with that in mind. I thought now would be the right time to discuss whether Someone of Trump's old age with rumors flying around about his physical and cognitive health, Is he fit to serve as president of the United States Yeah, so the second episode comes out this Wednesday in the first episode I spoke to physician Dr. Vin Gupta about the Pident's health, and I think you're going to be shocked by what he had to hear about the president. If you would like to become a founding member and listen, sign up at the rest ispolitics US. com or via the link in the episode, description and while you're there, do also sign up to our weekly newsletter, which this week features a special essay about why America elects old presidents and how that compares with other countries around the world. You might be interested. find out just how well the United States stacks up on the geritocracy scale Okay guys, we will be back later this week. Have a good couple of days. We'll see you then