Long Term Consequences of Foreign Policy

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Up frront payment of forty five dollars for three month plan, equivalent to fifteen dollars per month required. intntro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. taxes and fees extra. Feful terms at mintMobile d. com Hello and welcome to the Rest of Politics, US. with me, Katy Kay and not Anthony Scaramucci, who is at a literary festival somewhere in the South of England, but I'm very lucky to be joined by Joe Scarborough co host of morning Joe on MS Now, former repepresentative from Florida. You' got a lot of formers, Joe. got forer Republican, former congressman, former Floridian You stack them up So American of you I just keep moving. I'm quite happy with where I am right now. Eactly. You know It's so funny you say, so American of you, we were passing by a car yesterday and there was a Washington and lease sticker on there And you understand WNL, like being from Virginia. Yeah. But bet Nk and I were talking and I said, you know I actually was going to school at WN L, but I decided law school, decided to wait a year and ended up at Florida And I said, I'm so glad I did because now I can markck and ridicule people in the Trump administration and say, hey I just went to southern state schools and even I understand dot dot dot. But it is funny how America has changed from this sort of waspie thing to where somehow being from southern state schools, you know has become a A cache. More of a thing, yeah, because the home meritocracy things. And we could have a whole conversation about the fact that there is now more social mobility in the UK than there is in the United States on the two hundred fiftieth anniversary of the founding of your country. But we'll save that for another time. Okay, today, we are going to talk about Big movements in Europe, Donald Trump attacking various European leaders, one of whom has just left office. He's berated leaders from at least five different countries, recently piling it on Britain's Kir Stara, as the Prime Minister says he is stepping down Georgia Maloney, his most devoted European ally, has turned against him, which has won her massive plaudits back in Italy. And Pete Higseth, meanwhile, accusing NATO countries of free riding and calling them shameful. We're going to get into all of that And in the second half of the program, we'll look at Iran, quite a bit of chaos over the weekend in Switzerland as Trump threatened to take over Iran If the Strait of Vormz was not reopened immediately. But as Vance left the Peace talks this morning, he says that great progress has been made, make of that what you will. You and I were on morning Joe this morning, so we're just carrying on our conversation of six o'clock this morning because why not? And you said something I thought was really interesting and I wanted to get your take on it from a kind of American, somebody who watches British politics very closely. but from an American perspective and for our listeners, both in the UK and in the US. And you made the point that between nineteen seventy nine and two thousand seven basasically three decades, there were three British prrime ministers. And then since twenty sixteen, there have been six So since Brexit twenty sixteen. There have been six British prime mininisters. Why What was the point you were wanting to meate, whyy were you drawing that? Link Well because of the stability. I mean, you look at Thatcher from seventy nine to I guess ninetighty and John Major and then Tony Blair You had remarkable stability there so much so that I went through high school College coached high school football, wrote musicals, went to law school, went to Congress, came out of Congress Did Scarborough Country? D Morning Joe have been, you know I did all of that in the span of Britain having three prime mininisters Three prime ministers and now you might be able to get through breakfast and there's maybe Exactly.. And so and then since twenty twenty two, there have been four And so the as an annglophile, it's, you know, it's It's deeply concerning to me as I know it is to you as well And for us, you know looking over for people looking at Britain, the question is if you're having this much chaos and you understood Brexit was such a colossal mistake. Why can't you just go back on? everybody talked to you says you just can't do it There was a former cabinet member of Ajiv Kyistam, as you said recently, that social democracy has to be as much about a successful market economy as it is about an active state. I mean that could be a discussion with people like Mamdani that we could perhaps find ourselves having in the states, I think coming up fairly soon. This balance between market forces and growth and also state interventions. I think that's the. Butadd Cadding, can I just say somebody taught me a valuable lesson in two thousand nine And it was you when Barack Obama got elected president, Newsweek had a headline that said, We're all socialists now. I said, arere we becoming socialists? And Katy Kay said You Americans makeake terrible socialists. you focus on work. you're obsessive. you will never be socialists. you don't remember saying that, but you you are so right. You just walked down like sixth Avenue in New York and You then walk down the wall straight, you just yeah, terrible socialists. I think that is still true that America basically doesn't have a socialist bone in its body But I am looking at leaders like Mamdani and Platinner and wondering if there is something more of the social democracy or democratic socialist model that is creeping into Gen Z in the United States and they would do well, perhaps to look at the fortunes of European leaders who have got to focus like heck on growth because you can't have one without the other. You can't deliver the services. If you don't have the growth. Okay, if you were advising Joe Scarbora, I'm going to put you in the position of flying up to Manchester, England I know your team is Liverpool but anyway, you're going to go to Manchester And you're going to sit down with Andy Burnham And you're going to play strategist and advise him on how to deal with his friends across The Atlantic Ocean And I think there's two parts to this question because there's Dealing with Donald Trump and let's deal with that first. And then there is also dealing with the United States and wherever the United States is going. But how would you advise the next Prime Minister of Britain Be I think Kistamo came in We felt he gave a kind of masterclass when he sat down and produced that letter that he gave to Donald Trump and said, okay, there's going to be a second unprecedented state visit for you. And we all thought maybe he's playing it right And now after the events of the weekend and we can get into the Maloney stuff as well, I'm not sure that is the strategy. and you said something about interesting about that on morning Joe this morning, But what would you say to Andy Burnham on how to deal with Donald Trump Assuming he's the next prime Minister Right, but any sign of weakness is death. I remember trying to talk to Paul Ryan. When he became speaker. I'd known Paul since he was twenty two, twenty three years old. He actually worked for me and a couple of other people in the Republican House caaucus. and I said to him, I said, Hey, I've known Donald for twenty years He hates weakness. You can't be seen as weak. He may push back hard on you, but if you're tough He will respect you And if you just keep your head down while he's insulting you, he will come back your way and he will tell people privately, Hey, that Paul Ryan's a pretty tough guy. Paul, of course said, well, I'm just interested in policy. and I just I love Paul, but I just shook my head going, Well, Donald Trump's not interested in policy. I would say it's a real balancing act You can flatter him if you want. I've never done that.' found flattery doesn't work with Donald Trump. being straightforward without being hateful does at times help. And when he insults you, just Let it roll off your back, but be tough. I think actually though, the most important thing and this can be very tricky for labor I think it's interesting it' sort of a mirror of what what Republicans face, the challenges they face in the midterms and what Any Burnham's going to face Republicans are going to have to prove they actually care about working Americans, and they've done absolutely nothing to prove that. So they're going to have to get out of their comfort zone at one point put more money into Medicaid, put more money into healthcare, put more money into the sort of things that Americans are struggling with so far right now Banny Burnham' just the opposite. I mean, Great Britain's future depends basically O what Alen Greenspan, God Rest of Soul, told Bill Clinton in nineteen ninety three and that is he was hostage. Bond traders. Andy Burnnham is his premiership is going to be hostage to whether people want to invest in Britain, whether they will keep investing in Britain, whether they will continue helping pay off that debt And so he may have to be more pro business, more pro entrepreneurship then most of Labor iss going to be comfortable with him doing. But if he does that It helps investment. I think it also helps him in the short run with Donald Trump. Nothing I mean, you can't buy Donald Trump. You can only rent him. and sometimes you can only rent him for fifteen minutes. So I will say if Trump goes after him The correct response is seeing what Maloney has done Yeah because I guarantee you, the fighting' going on and on. Donald Trump wants to see if she's going to back down. The fact that she's being praised so much means she's not going to back down. He respects that and he will be far more likely to come back and have a good working relationship with Maloney with her acting this way rather than bowing down, cowtowing and apologizing to him Yeah, I was interested to see what you tweeted out. and it's been just kind of fun to watch the even the right wing press in Italy with this big banner headline. I think we can say this because it's a podcast. Trump is an asshole. When you've got your far right that's been causing you problems back on side with you, undoubtedly it's helped kind of Maloney's popular fortunes. And I think You know, she then has realized that sucking up to Trump was never the smart play. and there have been Europeans all along. and I think This gets to how Europe and the UK handles the relationship more broadly because there's one thing in what you say and tonally, how you present yourself But I think actually you also have to be able to do a little bit what China did and show strength that is real strength, that is not just words, right? They had a card and they were prepared to play it, and that card was rare earth minerals Europe has cards too, and we are a huge market for American products, American pharmaceutical products in particular. NATO is a value to the United States security, but we've somehow European leaders and I think I would include Kir Stahmer in this have just been somehow terrified of showing strength to Donald Trump and threatening to play Donald Trump at his own game. And it's not just the words, it's It's a sense of robustness in, okay, are we're prepared to launch the nuclear trade cards if we need to And I don't know if that that's the right strategy. I think they should have looked at Beijing and seen what Beijing did Another great example, if they want to look to a Democratic leader would be to see what Mark Carney's done in Canada. Donald Trump and Mark Carney aren't close friends and Trump is still holding up a bridge and he still wants to make Canada the fifty first state. But Mark Carney has been tough without being gratuitously insulting. And again, people will be watching going, well, Trump insults. Well, yeah, of course he does. He's a child. He's a five year old that What you have to understand about his taunts are the same taunts as a five year old. The best way to handle that is the way that Mark Carney handles it, head down, move forward and use that as an opportunity to say, like Maloney did, I'm not going to bow down to Donald Trump and Italy is never gonna to bow down to Donald Trump, strengthens her at home the same thing's going to happen, of course. and the same thing has happened with Carney who came in on the barest of margins. but now you know a year in, people are talking about what a forceful leader he's become. And I will say If you look at Donald Trump's relationship with Mom Donny, he loves success. He loves winners. Mom Donny's a winner. Mom Donny was asked if he still believed Donald Trump was a fascist in the Oval Office next to Donald Trump. and he started to answer him said, you don't have to answer that. I'm fine. We're good. So the idea that you have to be weak and count out to Donald Trump It doesn't work. It doesn't work for Republican congressmen or senators. It doesn't work. for foreign leaders. So would I would recommend that they be respectful but also be tough. One other thing too that I just don't understand why I don't hear this more coming from European leaders donon't understand why there isn't the realization that you're right. Europe does hold cards. I mean, you look at the GDP of the United States, twenty six, twenty seven trillion dollars. You look at the GDP of Europe The EU add the UK. It's about twenty six, twenty seven trillion dollars. The economies are equal. China's is beneath that. Russia's is one point four trillion dollars. So The fact the fact that Donald Trump continues to hedge his bets for some reason with Russia with its one point four, one point five trillion dollars GDP, a GDP smaller than the size of Texas And basically continue to tell Europe to F off is just It's beyond me and it's time I think it's time for Europe to push back and say, wait a second what's wrong with you? We have the opportunity standing shoulder to shoulder to dominate the world. You can't do it alone and we're here ready to be your partners. But you're going to have to treat us as partners or else we'll look elsewhere. Joe Scarborough's advice to Andy Burnham, call Georgia Maloney Yes, maybe so. Give her a ring. I thought the other point of Georgeia Miller and I listened to the video And I thought the thing and everybody's made a big thing about how she says, I'll never beg and Italy never begs. but she made I thought The even more important point, which is what you've just said, is that Donald Trump treats his allies in this terrible way. at the same time that he seems to accommodate his adversaries. And it was clear she was talking about Putin in that respect. And I think that is the question that Europeans always have about Donald Trump and they feel it so much more existentially than Americans do because it's that much closer. And Maloney, who we were all worried when she was elected, was not going to be a supporter of Ukraine's, has been a huge supporter of Ukraine.. you tweeted out that know thanks to her for her support that she's given Ukraine. But let me play Devil's advocate for a bit, which is that this is something Rory Stewart was saying on their live stream that they put out after Starmer resigned, is that the problem Europe faces, you mentioned about if Europe stands shoulder to shoulder. The problem is twofold Europe doesn't stand shoulder to shoulder That's its inherent weakness. It is twenty seven. The European Union is twenty seven different countries. But the other is that it's just It is dependent still on the United States. We've spoken a lot on Morning Joe about the dependence on NATO But it's also the UK is building an economy on American tech. Europe is building an economy on American artificial intelligence at the moment. We're increasing our dependence, you could argue, on America right now, right at the time that America looks like a less reliable ally. So what do European leaders need to do, Joe, to We know what they need to do on defense spending. They've got it And they're starting to do it. They've got to do a hell of a lot more coordination, and that's going to be harder. But I think they also have to reckon with the idea how do we've got to be able to stand up to America? It's got to be more than just words, how are we going to do it? And they seem to be moving, Europe seems to be moving in the right direction on defense issues. You know, It's something that Merkel said in Donald Trump's first term. We have to look east. We can't depend on the United States anymore. They have to use leverage I will say that while it's horrifying to even suggest this You know, the UAE is very open about the fact that They're going to deal with China when it's in their best interest. They'll deal with Russia when it's in their best interest. They'll deal with America when it's in their best interest. And unfortunately, I think Europe's going to have to move more in that direction until they have another president they can rely on. because right now, you do have in Donald Trump, a president as remarkable as it seems that is drawn to dictators that strong autocrats he He loves she. He's very impressed by she. He's He of course, we all know how fond he is of Vladimir Putin. He loved Orbon when Orbon was in power And there's this incredible quote, Maggie Habrman in Jonathan Swan's new book of Donald Trump in nineteen ninety asked about Tenemen Square. and Trump compared Gorbachev unfavorably to the communist Chinese saidid Gorbachev was weak And that's why he's in trouble. But said the Chinese, they were strong, they were tough. They handled the student demonstrators the way you're supposed to handle those people. strength always wins. And he was openly raising the communist Chinese leadership. for cracking down on pro democracy demonstrations in TMN Square. That is who Donald Trump was in nineteen ninety. That who is that's who Donald Trump is today. Yeah. And it seems to me that that Europe's going to have to figure out How to respond to that? And the first thing they do, they do have to figure out How to become more united militarily, economically in every other way. And they've got to figure out, again, the thing that Trump respects the most is money got to figure out how to make partnerships with AI firms and do whatever it takes get to get some of those businesses, some of those entrepreneurs in Europe in the UK. God, it's such a different time, Joe from when you were in Congress as a Republican in Congress in the mid nineties., which was kind of peak transatlantic. corporation. Right. And it's also just a radically different time than it was even in Trump's first term. In Trump's first term, he was focused on getting coal mines back open, steel mills back open. Now he's all in on AI he's all in on Bitcoin, he's all in on the tech sector and that's That's what drives him the most right now. And so that is the real challenge. And it's the real challenge that the UK and Europe not get left further and further behind in those areas, especially. With Trump turning on his European allies and seemingly losing friends by the day, it's worth asking, is Donald Trump the loneliest president in American history Well, fortunately, this is the subject of this week's newsletter, where historian Adam Smith dives into how Trump by purging his administration of all of those dissenting pesky voices, has isolated himself in a way we haven't seen in American history. To read this, sign up at there ispoliticsS. com and it'll be in your inbox on Wednesday OkayK, we're going to take a quick break and come back and talk about Iran and the latest out of Switzerland and what we make of these negotiations Welcome back to the Rest is Politics, US. Anthony is off today, but I'm back here with Joe Scarborough, host of Morning Joe, My favorite television show, as it happens. Oh good. That's good to know. Every on it. You know I would even get up at four in the morning to come on your show. That is unbelievable that you do that. You have to be again, in the words of Katy Kay crriminally insane to do that regularly. Well You have to be I do it twice a week. You do it five times a week. That is what makes you certifiable. Yeah. ye. no doubt about it. It's I mean, in doing it now, we're coming up on our twentieth year Yeah, the the acute the It The scar tissue accumulates. It's so funny. I'll be lying around in the afternoon going, oh, I'm so old. How did I get so old? And they go, Ohh wait a second. I woke up at four thirty this morning, tapp dance for three or four hours on TV, did all these things after. and I've been doing it for twenty years. twenty years. Yeah, can you believe that? That's crazy And it's not like there's nothing to talk about. So let's look at what's happening in Iran. What do you make of what's coming out of Iran, both in terms of look, do we ever get beyond an MOU? Because what I'm hearing from people that follow Iran far more closely than I do is this is what we're going to get. It's a page and a half. We're gonna to have this kind of bumpy ceasefire Going forwards, there will never really be substantive negotiations. that is not a team that pays attention to technical detail and has much in the way of follow through historically when it comes to big strategy. So this is probably all that we're going to get is a ceasefire that holds more or less well various points. I think that's the best case scenario right now from from what I'd say maybe This MOU can keep a ceasefire stitched together between Iran and the United States and keep the straight open, but moving forward to any nuclear deal. That's just never going to happen. And what I think a lot of people are concerned about in the region, certainly what I'm concerned about, what I would guess a lot of Republicans and some Democrats in Washington worried about is the fact that Donald Trump will unfreeze about a hundred billion dollars in funds that I doubt we'll ever get to the three hundred billion dollars in reparations, which actually is more then Germany agreed to pay for at Versailles I don't think we'll ever get that for But there's no doubt Iran will be strengthened a great deal by this war We'll have control over the straight, will'll have be able to sell their oil without sanctions will be able to rebuild their war machine. They're not going to go in and rebuild infrastructure quickly to help the people of Iran. They don't care about the people of Iran. And this idea That was floated out there that, well, you know, if the Iranians will deal with us on nuclear, then You know, we'll invest in their country and their country can become an economic success story The Moles don't care about that. The revolutionary guard doesn't care about that. They care about what Putin cares about staying in power. So I think you're right. I'd go one step further. they actually actively don't want that. Right. That capital investment and those foreigners coming into their country to build shiny new condos or whatever it was in North Korea, I think it was beach hotels they offered them. That's a threat to the regime. That's Karim Sajapor, the great Iran expert was saying over the weekend, That's a Trojan horse We lose control of our population if our population is suddenly free and prosperous and open to Western ideas and money. That's kind of the last thing that they would want Yeah, ye, exactly. So I really don't know where this goes. I think we're stuck the same place we were a week two, three weeks ago. You've got Iran who is drawing a red line on enrichment. You've got the United States and Donald Trump is said they fought this war. so Iran would never have a nuclear weapon. And as much as Donald Trump wants to make it go away Israel is not going to allow it to go away as long as Iran is still enriching. And Republicans in the United States Senate and the House, I don't think are going to let it go away either. So I'm not really exactly sure where we go from now other than to a place that you've just described and that is where there's this sort of uneasy ceasefire with some ships being able to go through the strait I ask you about why JD Vance, because I think this is interesting, JD Vance who has just released a book on his conversion to Catholicism. You are a better Christian than I am, Joe, not a Catholic, but you know you actually do go to church I do. Oh Kaddy. No, I am not I read the Bible, but ye. You read the Bible, okay. So here is JD Releasing this book in the same week that he is talking about the Iranian regime suddenly having become more like, I don't know Pick an innocuous European country. I think your favorite is Luxembourg. There you go, Luxembourg. Iran is becoming normal. Donald Trump has said that the regime is not radicalized. This is now a very different group of people we've got in there. They're far more normal. We can have a good, you know gentleman's agreement with them, effectively is what the administration says This is the regime that has just given seventy four lashes to a twenty nine year old singer who performed without a hijab It has escalated persecution of some of the minorities.. And it's putting Political prisoners on a fast track to the gallows. I mean, literally this is the same regime. This is JD Vance, who is releasing a book on his deep Christian faith. somehow suggesting that the leadership of Iran because of the war that Donald Trump implemented is now a more reasonable, normal, pro Western, acceptable regime. How is JD squearing those two things? He doesn't have to sear these He's just been so hypocritical. There is a guy who attacks the Catholic pope, a recent convert to Catholicism lecturing the Pope on theology in such a way that even right wing Catholics in America were offended U And it's the same JD Vance that compared Donald Trump to Hitler. Donald Trump cultural heroine and the samet JD Vance whose conversion to Trumpism did not come during the twenty twenty campaign. It actually came, think about this. this is all you need to know about Jie Vance His conversion to Trumpism came in the weeks following january sixth because he decided he wanted to run for Senator in twenty twenty two. So after the loss, after january sixth, after the insurrection, after all the lies, after trying to undermine democracy, that's when JD Bance went from calling Trump cultural heroine and America's Hitler to deciding he wanted to be his ally. The same thing's happening here where you have Chhadie Vance again emmbracing the Iranians because that's the mission Donald Trump has put him on. And right now, he's in a competition. withith Marco Rubio for who's going to be Donald Trump's successor. And by all indications, right now it seems that Donald Trump is leaning towards Marco Rubio. It's funny in regime change, there's a moment when somebody looks at all the gold that Donald Trump has put all over the White House and how garass it had become. Liberacci kind of on steroids. Exactly, exactly. Liberacci on steroids. An adviser says, arerenn't you concerned that the next president is going to tear all this down on the first day And Trump goes, Mah, Cubans love gold. So And Q Marco. Yeah, ye Q Marco and time and time in the book JD just seems to be just so politically clumsy. Tim and time again, whenether you talk about the war, you know, he was on the side with Tucker Carlson saying you can't go into Iran. You know, Donald Trump turns his back on and basically says, leave me alone. You just go down the list, the Epstein files. It seems JD's always on the wrong side of things and there is no doubt and Trump said as much We've put JD out there, so if it fails, it's JD's fault and not mine. Well, Jie's been given a losing hand. He's been set up to fail I think that's exactly what's going to happen I wonder I had from a European diplomat recently whose wife is in a group that has B Avance is kind of part of. says they're having a pretty miserable time that they're not actually liking this. They're not liking the scrutiny, Oh my God. If they're not liking the scrutiny on the family now, try running for president, try being president of the United States. And I thought the book launch was his twenty twenty eight bid. I don't think he handled it particularly well because his conversion on the view to being soft and cuddly and self deprecating, Anthony and I spoke about this last week wasn't particularly compelling. I think JD Vance is the JD Vance, the Munich Security Council conference and I think it's he is the JD Vance we saw with Vlolodymyir Zelensky in the Oval Office. and when he tries and does Soft and cuddly. it's It just comes across as weird Yeah, it doesn't work and it doesn't work because you look at a lot of people that it worked for Trump And sometimes you're like, oh God, stop playing that role. You're embarrassing yourself. You're trying to be tough. you're trying to be overly, you know aggressive and rude With JD Vant Based on the Republican fundraisers that I know who have dealt with him and dealt with him in one to one situation, say I never seen this side of him, so I don't know, but they say behind closed doors, he's a pretty miserable person. He's a pretty mean person. He's a pretty unlikable person. So your insights on how soft and cuddly Jady doesn't sell Well, it makes sense. I think he is the JD Vance of the Munich Security confonerence. I think if Marco is the one who's thinking he benefits from all of that, that picture of him looking like he's in a hostage video behind the president at the G seven summit in France may not be the easiest thing for him. I just think it's striking that somehow over the last four months, Iran has got Pora and crueler and somehow more popular in Washington all at the same time That seems to be quite a feat that they've pulled off Well, Donald Trump had figured out, you know, all the lies about completely destroying Iran's military machine, all the lies about destroying their nuclear capabilities, quote, obliterating the nuclear capabilities, Donald Trump yelling at JD Vance because he doesn't use the word obliterate enough when he talks about their attack on the nuclear facilities. All of that has been swept away because Donald Trump realizes Everybody's been warning up for twenty, twenty five years. You can't invade Iran. You can't go into Iran or as Dr. Brzinski said in twenty twelve They will shut off the straight They'll never beat you in war, but you will be setting the world's economy on fire. And that's what Donald Trump has finally figured out. He's figured out there's no good way out of there. So he's hoping people will blame JD for capitulating to the Iranians. Do you think, Joe, just before we stop, this is something I'm wondering if Democrats are getting wrong because they're looking at the details of this and saying, well, point six is, you, just the same as the Obama plan and point thirteen is worse than the Obama plan actually what the White House is looking at. is gas prices are going to start coming down in the United States Rates. And so How many people who are voting in swing districts around the country are actually going to be looking at the finer points of the memorandum aroundstanding actually caring in two months time, how much are we going to be talking about Iran in the strait of fourorm Muz assuming that oil is flowing reasonably flluidly enough. Do you think the White House has a point that they can just sell this as a win because people will not follow through on the details and we'll forget And actually this This won't be as much of a political cost to Republicans as we might be thinking it is sitting here right in the middle of this. Short term This is the best political move for all the reasons that you just said. I mean, first of all, you try to get aran off the front pages. There's complication in that. It's called the Evstein files and you'll remember The Friday before Trump launched the attacks is when the stories of the fourteen year old, the fifteen year old started to really get reported out and that story was about to blow up. So who knows, mayaybe Trump trades the Epstein files for the Iran war and finds himself back dealing with the Epstein files. But in the short run, Republicans will, I think, will benefit with gas prices going down. the markets will probably stabilize a bit more. I said probably because it's chaos. In the long run though, for Donald Trump's legacy, for the Republicans' legacy, it's complete disaster, Bob Kagan wrote this this will go down If this is where we end in the MOU, this will go down as one of the greatest military defeats in U. S history. And it won't be enough for Trump and Hxit to say, well, we beat them militarily we beat Vietnam militarily in every battle. We The Iraqis, we beat Afghanistan. and yeah, we beat the Iranians and we lost all four wars. So long run, it's going to be devastating on Trump's legacy and that's what he cares about the most right now. In the short run, though, maybe Republicans pick up some political gains for it. Yeah, in the long long run, I think we end up with a world that is potentially less safe because you've got a whole bunch of countries saying what I need is a nuclear weapon. Right. And then this won't happen to me. If you would like to hear more from Joe Scarborough, he's going to join us for our bonus episode for our foundounding members, where we're going to be discussing Bill Pulty's dramatic start dramatic to his tenure as acting director of National intntelligence, Wh's actually going to be funding that three hundred billion dollarsar Pedge to Iran and why American intelligence tends to not quite get it right when it comes to understanding other countries. Priorities, if you're not a member and would like to listen, do make sure to sign up at thereest is pololiticsS dot com to become a founding member. Jo Scarborough, thank you very much. I've been wanting to get you on the show for ages. We just had to get a rid of Anthony for a week and then find a slot in your schedule Exactly. Get rid of him. I love him. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you