Personal Diaries and Silent Retreats

How does an opposition party define its identity after it loses? That's the question hanging over American politics. This week, Zuran Mamdani has suddenly become much more than a mayor. Every congressional candidate he endorsed won including two who unseated incumbent Democrats Some people think it's proof that the Democratic Party is now moving decisively left But I think the more interesting question is whether New York is telling us anything at all Voters and the midterms And this week One of the questions we've received is whether Manddani is the future of the Democratic Party or in reality gift to the Republicans and Trump The answer determine the future of the United States. This episode is powered by Fuse Energy. Right now, Fuse Energy's tariffs are up to two hundred pounds below the off gem price cap. Plus, they've just launched a new referral offer that can bring your bill down even further. What I love is the simplicity of it. if you refer a friend, one of those few people who haven't heard about fuse from us every week, and they switch both their gas and electricity, you each get fifty pounds towards your next bill. So it starts with one conversation, no prize draws, no chance, no complicated reward scheme power of one smart recommendation that rewards you both. And remember, energy prices are more volatile than ever, but don't wait for rates to spike again. Switch to fuse in just three minutes and move to cheaper energy designed to help you and your friends cut bills. So don't just listen to another price cap story, swwitch to fuse, save up to two hundred pounds and get trip plus free Code politics at fuse ennergy. com slash politics Welcome to the Rest of Fpor Quion T timee with me, Alister Campbell. And with me Rory Start. And we're going to be talking about Zorom Mandani and what he says about the future of the Democrats in the United States. We're going to be talking about Whether there might be a new party in Australia, we're going to talk about some horrible stuff happening in South Africa and the treatment of their undocumented immigrants there and willll maybe have to touch a little bit, I think at some point, Rory upon the World Cup But let's start with Mamani, Katherine in New York Mamdoni can't run for president himself, That's because he was born in Uganda, not the US, but is he effectively already running a shadow presidential campaign through the candidates he's backing And if the Democratic Party establishment keeps dismissing New York as a one off Aren't they making exactly the same mistake they made with Trump in twenty fifteen First thing is what Mandani did in New York It's amazing and people who haven't been following it. What effectively happened is that he backed three candidates against the Democratic Party establishment. against in fact sitting members of Congress who were Democrats. So I don't know whether people can reach for a British analogy, but it would be as though, I don't know Sadiq Khan suddenly decided he was going to run his own MPs against sitting labour MPs and ran them from the far left And he achieved these incredible results Claire Valdz came in in Brooklyn Brad Lander defeated Dan Goldman. Dan Goldman is a Levi Strausser, very, very wealthy man, two term incumbered congressman by APAC Pro is re And he beat him by a thirty point margin, thirty point margin. But perhaps most dramatically of all, was the New York thirteen. And the reason why we're talking about the primaries is that these are such safe democratic seats Whoever wins the Democratic primary goes on to enter Congress Dariel L Chheavelier, who's thirty three years old. defeated a five term incumbent congressman, Adriano Espayat, who is the congressional chair of the Hispanic Cucus And these are happening in very, very different areas. That's the other thing. It's very difficult to generalize. You know one of them, Brad Lander's victory was in one of the wealthiest districts of New York, median income about one hundred twenty thousand dollars median income and sixty one percent graduate. where it sterials the Chevalier's victory was in a place where the median income was fifty two thousand dollars So one of the poorest areas of New York And in both cases, Mamani brought in figures who did many things. I mean, they talked about costs of living, but they were most dramatic because they were radically of Israel, these are people very comfortable talking about genocide in Gaza. And in the case of Chevalier She had some very, very, very, very radical positions. She doesn't believe in prisons. Just in the run up to the election, she was asked at an event whether she thought somebody should go to prison for murder and she wasn't very convinced about that. She's way over on the defund the police thing. But what's really interesting about Mandani. we talked about Well two things really. We talked in the main episode about Andy Burnham and how he showed a bit of ruthlessness. Mamani went against people who had actually supported him. to become mayor, who had worked with him and worked for him because he wanted these more They call them deemocrat socialists. And it's interesting, the terminology in America is so different to ours. I mean, know hard left here means a lot something very, very different. Donald Trump has already labeled these people as communist, okay. Now they're very left wing by American standards But as you say, New York is not classic America. These people are going to get elected The question, I guess is then what impact that has on the broader debate? But the other point I want to make about Mum Dani, this guy is such a great communicator He was interviewed about some of these positions. I don't know if you saw the clips or I sent you the clips. He was interviewed about some of these positions that Chevalier had been promoting And his ability without looking remotely defensive or without looking at all embarrassed to flip the question to a bigger point that he wants to make. He's just so he does it so effortlessly and the other extraordinary piece of communication this week. As the mayor, he was launching some swimming event, okay He was dressed in a suit. With a shirt and tie, okay? Now a lot of politicians don't like showing their bodies, though I think that given Donald Trump clearly fanies him madly, I'm sure he's got a perfectly presentable physique, but he decided to take part in the sweay but just dive in wearing his suit and shirt and tie. Now, I can think of most politicians, that is going look so weird as to be absurd He just looked cool He looked really, really, really cool. So now the problem I think that the Democrats more generally will have on this is that and you already seen that I did something really foolish I dipped into Fox News. I don't know why I did it. I dipped into Fox News. and they were just talking about this woman's chehevalier like she was the entirety of the Democrat Party. So this is why some Democrats will be very, very worried. It's how this will be weaponized against them, a bit like defeund the police was. British analogy is This will be like what Jeremy Corbyn. did to the Labour Party The existence of some people out on the far left will be used to brand it and it'll be seen by people like Trump as a gift because they'll be able to say There's a particular slice of voters for whom this really matters. I've been trying to. look at the midterms through this lens and particularly matters, I think, to suburban, fiscally conservative right anti Trump Republicans who the Democrats need to flip seats. They need to flip the Lower Hudson Valley, which is New York seventeen They need to Pennsylvania ten. And these are places which will be very, very nervous about what they will see as the radical far left. And the radical far left, as you say, I mean A lot of the views of Zuram Aamdani would be mainstream soft left labour in Britain And actually I was trying to explain, Sasha why these things were frightening. And he was like, well, but I agree with everything Mamdan he says. I don't really understand why that's gonna scare scare voters in those things, but it does So I think that's going to be interesting. And it interesting also that of course, the Democrats aren't all following the same path. So Richie Torres, who we interviewed on leading who's very pro Israel and represents a poor Bronx district of New York won by fifty points in the primary against someone from the radical left Yeah. And of course, the person the Democrats have seelected as their candidate for New York seventeen is Kate Connlly, whoses what they now call a combat veteran. It's not enough just to be a veteran. you have to be a combat veteran now to run for the Democratic partarty. So anyway, back back over to you. how do you think they should deal with that political thing? And then I'd love if you've got a second just to take you through some of the stuff I've been looking at in the midterms because it's really intriguing. The first thing it shows is that Mamdani is a national figure. In fact he's an international figure Uh he's he's probably one of the best known politicians in the world right now. O off course Trump is part of that. Trump has this sort of strange attract he really finds him a very attractive personality, even though he sort of doesn't agree with any of his politities, but I think that's because he recognizes in him something that's really quite special in terms of the way that that he projects himself I think the most interesting thing in the mid tterms is going to be the Senate because I think the Democrats they will take the House. But I think if they're going to take the Senate They're going have to win five out of the following seven states. Main Michigan, North Carolina, Alaska, Iowa, Texas and Ohio. I think Maine Michigan, North Carolina are likely Maine is getting the most attention because of this guy Graham Platinner, who's got some pretty wild out there stuff going on. Well just to remind people a little bit about Graham Platin. So Graham Plattner has what is politely referred to in the New York Times. two that looks like a Nazi symbol is the way of fring it. You know, he is a guy with some pretty outspoken crazy social media posts running against Susan Collins who is a Maine institution. You know, someome people ser is a bit old and a bit stayed, but she's seen as somebody who delivers from Maine And she's very much not a Trump Republican So the question is, can grand plantus kind of raw Brusil social media friendly authenticity. He is somebody actually unusually in a Democratic senatorial race who's er, very critical of Israel and Gaza win it out against Susan Collins's ability to beat ten points in midterms in the past These are not easy races. No, no, no, they're not. But I think the I think the scent look Trump, he has his base, obviously I think somethingbody like Susan Collins will be thinking he's not that much of an asset for me in this battle. She's also got a record of lots of the Nancy Pelosi style stock trading, which you know, you and I both think should be outlawed, but it's not. and whether Platinum will be able to make somethingomet out of that. But let's just assume that the Democrats are going to take those three, Main, Michican, North Carolina. than the others, the fact that they're even being talked about as possible, Democrat wins I think does underline that Trump is very, very unpopular The fact that Alaska and Texas might go Democrat is extraordinary when you think that what the numbers were last time around. So I think you that's where I think the real interest is going to be is in the Senate. Yeah. Well let me just on the House of Representatives because I've been looking at this b. and I think it's a really interesting picture of the problem the Democrats have which is they're having to face in at least three different directions One direction I talked about is how do you reassure the suburban prosperous, fiscally conservative Vir peopleeople who are pretty horrified by Trump, but don't want to be too radical and that's where they end up running the combat veterans But that's only I mean, who knows which seats to look up? I looked at ten in particular, which seem to be the key House of Representative seats as far as I can work out Although actually there are probably about eighteen seats, which are toss ups. So a couple of them are like that. New York, Pennsylvania. seats which are suburban Fiscally conservative Then there are a couple of absolutely classic what we would in Britain call red wall seats including Scranton coalfield seat that Joe Biden comes from. So these are Pennsylvania white working class, de industrialized places where there is a massive fight for the white working class, which is about It's something that everybody in Britain would relate to when it comes to Red Wall aps of traditional working class identity, unions, de industrialization and those voters being driven to the far right And then you've got a third final category of seat which is Latino seats. So in California and Colorado You've got poorer Latino districts that traditionally the Democrats would have assumed would vote for them, but in fact with Trump too, have moved strongly towards the Republicans. and they've moved strong towards Republicans because it feels as though They're not leaning into their Latino identities so much. They're behaving like normal American voters. They're prioritizing crime, they're prioritizing family, they're prioritizing faith, prioritizing law and order issues I think there are two things I took from that. One is the ju jitsu that the Democratic Party has to try to do dealing with these very, very different seats. The analogies would be let's say Scranton is like some of the Red Wall seats in the Northeast. Let's say these fiscally conservative seats are like kind of seats that supported me and David Gork that have gone lib d in Britain, suburban seats around London And the final Latino seats are something that would be more like Muslim voters in Bradford suddenly deciding they weren't going to vote remotely on ethnic lines anymore and going to start voting reform because they feel they're more law and order, small business air that's one thing. The second thing is that it's incredibly narrow and specific. There's not a national strategy It's seat by seat on almost tiny Latin American margins If the Democrats don't make it, you're right, their odds on to take the house. But if they don't make it, it will be a story of something going slightly wrong in ten little seats. Well, another difference with the UK, of course, is that they have a leadership But they don't have a leader until they really you know decide he's going to fight for the presidency And the trouble sinulation, in your introduction, you sort of highlighted what you do when you lose. There has been a sort of post mortem of sorts, but it's been very chaotic. It's not been very clear what the sort of center of gravity of that analysis has been And the truth is the recognized leadership, particularly Chuck Schumer are basically seen as a negative. and so that makes the campaigns even more local The other big change, I think that you've mentioned a couple of times that okay, Richie Torre as we know, very pro Israel and anyone big It is no longer the case that you assume that a Democrat candidate has to project a sense of you know, sympathy towards Israel. What happened in New York is that basically the more sympathetic you were towards the Palestinians, the better you were going to do. And I think the other thing that is maybe driving people to think we've got to just be out of this conservative small sea mindset that the Schumer and Hakim Jeffrees are kind of identified as is you not let Donald Trump win? You know Donald Trump is a convicted felon. He was one of the worst presidents we've ever had. and somehow the strategy that you lo put together, we lost. So please stop telling us how to win these elections and please stop telling us who should be our candidate So the figures to back you up, the Pew surveys In twenty twenty two neegative views of Israel amongst Democrats, fifty three percent twenty twenty six, eighty percent I mean, nobody's ever seen a shift like this and that's driven by Gaza Americans overall for the first time in decades I'm more pro Palestinian than pro Israeli And yet Jeffrees and Schumer. are still funded by APAC controlling hundreds of millions of congressional funds It's also a story, these metid terms we studied it a little bit when we looked at Kentucky and Thomas Masssey, who was a Critic He lost to Pro Israel candidate called John Corin and again and again Despite Trump's unpopularity, it's Trump's candidates winning through in the Republican primaries, including, I mean, Trump is basically doing what Mam Dani does He's able to mobilize his base to topple sitting incumbents and bring in his bring in his own people Anyway, so much to watch. so exciting. I'm hoping to be there for the midterms, I think you're still refusing to visit United States, particularly now that Scotland hasn't qualied your What are they out? When did they happen? Whatere do you mean they out? And they out out there Oh my go Just very quickly, the short follow up question, Kiiran from Bradford, Alistair. What do you make of JD Vance's comment that if the Watergate scandal happened, it would be out of the news cycle in twenty four hours and it would have no chance of bringing down a president What does this tell us about how fast standards have slipped in public life across the Western heemisphere JD Vance said this whilst promoting his new book about his conversion to Catholicism and the importance of faith in his life I mean, if anything signified What I would term to be a kind of moral collapse within both an individual and a culture, it is that Watergate was about an elected president breaking American law and thinking you can get away with it and What I think it says, So what Vance's statement says to me is I mean, he may be right that because of the breakdown in the media morality as well, the fact that the media has sort of just become so much part of this sort of populist agenda that maybe is right there would be a sort of twelve hour thing. I mean I would argue that Trump has done F worse in all sorts of ways The Nixon But Nixon was forced out of office because back then, in what was already a fairly corrupt political culture, they did at least have standards. It's also staggering that of all the people to point this out It'm extraordinary that the person pointing out the shamelessness of political culture is Donald Trump's vice president, the JD Gants himself Yeah is saying just how shameless political culture has been. is kind the mental kind of weirdness of the whole thing But yes, I think he's right. I mean I mean, I think this goes back to the thing that you often quote which is Trump saying he can walk down the streets of Manhattan and shoot someone and it would have no impact. But he's also if you do a little bit of simple maths, he said this would be a sort of twelve hour story. So what he's basically saying is that every day current administration is doing at least two things that are worse than Watergate That's my very simple calculation on that. His other great public relations triumph, I don't know if you saw he appeared as the guest on his wife Userss podcast about reading So there was nothing all could about that. notothing all could no. It was horrific because it looked like they were meeting for the first time. I mean, he called each other honey and babe and all that stuff. but it looked like they'd never met before. And he gave her the most patronising at on a leg that I think I've ever seen. I mean, it also also shows how Akwardvances how he really struggles with informal communication in a way that wouldn't be true with Trump or Mamdani and maybe a really interesting weakness if he decides to run for the presidency. Yeah. listen, he hasn't got it. He hasn't got it. Al also this amazing new book that's getting a lot of attention in the states is by Maggie Habermman and Jonathan Swann Reime Change, which is about term too. It has this extraordinary account of where Donald Trump has invites Rupert Murdoch in for a chat and Rubio and Vance are both sitting there. And Trump says to Murdoch, which one do you think is better than? And Murdoch says, Well, Rubio's, you know, Marco's pretty good U he's done pretty he's pretty good and u yeah, JD. Yeah, he's got potential It's like putting them through kind of, you know, the Rupert Murdoch test. I thought we were through the Murdoch era, but Re not OkayK, we're going take a quick break and then come back and talk about these pretty horrible events happening in South Africa Very good. See you off after the break Hi, this is Garal Linka from Goldhangers. The restest is foootball. This episode is brought to you by Wise. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee and what might be hidden away in the small print Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate and easy transfer and no surprises along the way. Wise keeps things simple. Wise is a smart way to move the currencies you need around the globe. It works in more than one hundred sixty countries and with over forty currencies mostost transfers arrive instantly. Wise uses the mid market exchange rate, like the one you see on Google, with no markups or hidden fees. So when money needs to move, you can see the rate, know the fee, and get on with it. Join millions saving billions on hidden fees by downloading the WS app today. Be smart Get wise, teas and Ts apply Hello, the Rest is Politics listeners. It's Gordon and David here from The Rest is Classify and we've got an exclusive preview of our latest series on the poisoning of Alexander Litvinyenko A Russian security serervice officer is living in London with his wife and son when he suddenly falls seriously ill He has been poisoned using a rare and highly radioactive toxin Who gave the orders and why In our later series, we investigate the mysterious murder a former KGB officer Alexand Litipanyenko. in a sinister plot that goes all the way to the top of the Russian state We delve into the murky circumstances leading up to Litenko's death and how foreign agents pulled off an audacious murder British soil, one which put the entire population of London in serious danger This is a story of personal tragedy and of cloak and dagger espionage, but also political conspiracy Litanenko's murder sheds light on the cost of speaking out in Putin's Russia, but also the extent to which the British state been willing to suppress the truth to maintain its political relationships. To hear the full series, listen to the Rest is Classified wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Restless Politics Question Time with me, Roy Stewart. and me, Alista Campbell. And we have a question areory from Richard Cohen, who describes himself as a South African living in London What do you make of what's happening in South Africa where anti immigration groups march and march and Operation Dadulla have effectively given undocumented migrants until june thirtieth to leave, amid reports of violence intimidation and ging xenophobia that is increasingly affecting legal migrants too Is this part of a broader trend in which grassroot groups Fustrated by perceived government failure on immigration take enforcement into their own hands. What does it say about the limits of state authority and legitimacy. Firstly just to explain what's going on here. So these are two South African groups and They're not government at all, but they've set a deadline. and the deadline actually when this show goes out, will have passed But it's leading to Tens of thousands of migrants being displaced. When we're talking about migrants in South Africa, we're normally talking about people coming in from neighboring countries could be people from Zimbabwe, for example, coming into South Africa These migrants are relatively small part of the South African population. It's not like, you know Britain where An equivalent number might be seventeen percent of the population in South Africa is probably about four percent of the population It tells you a lot. It tells you that anti immigration sentiment is not just a British phenomenon. I mean we talked about how dramatic it is in Latin America, where people are very worried about Venezuelan migrants and that's a big electoral It's also true that when we talk about immigration in Europe, we're forgetting that most of the people hosting immmigrants are not Europeans. huge numbers are hosted in African countries like Uganda that takes a lot of migrants, Pakistan, Iran taking Afghan migrants over the past. tensions in all these places, but what we're seeing in Sou Afica adds a second bid, which is essentially vigilante groups and militia beginning to mount pogrims against migrants. And there's something about that that's really, really disturbing. I mean that really, you know if you were talking about the nineteen twenties, nineteen thirties That is where you begin to think this is brown shirts, this is really. crazy stuff. It's something that no government should ever tolerate back over you. Yeah you know, before we sort of see this as as you say, this is a problem that's happening in all different parts of the world. You know, it's not that long ago that we had those awful scenes in Belfast where, you know, far right thugs were going around attacking the homes of migrants, many of whom were working in our public services. And I think this is just classic scapegoating where people are made to believe or encouraged to believe that the problems in their lives are the fault of Imigrants And we see that rightight around the world at the moment. If you were to analyze what the problems are in South Africa They have a massive youth unemployment issue, massive. That is a problem which governments have to seek to address What's happened is that government has failed to address that. Government is failing also to deal with this security issue. and to go back to to go back to Rich's question, that is then what leads to people saying, I take this into my own hands, but they're doing so What I find really terrifying about this is they're doing so based on So much misinformation And there's also been evidence that one of these anti immigrant campaigns is actually being backed by who have a pro Russian agenda to do with Russian energy and wanting to get Russian energy into South Africa So this is horrible. What's happening is horrible and you've seen some really terrible pictures of these people who in the main have nowhere to live or where they do have places to live. they're being driven out. So then they're sort of trying to gather outside foreign consulates, outside foreign embassies, hoping that they'll be protected. And as you say, we're speaking on the day that this deadline, which has no legal status whatsoever Well if it has no legal status and the government security authorities are not dealing with adequately Where does that lead to? It leads to the sort of violence that you've just been talking about And actually this one neatly leads us back to the World Cup because one of the interesting things is that when South Africa was playing Mexico veryery unusually A lot of African fans rather than supporting South Africa we're supporting Meic. And that's partly because the sense of rising xenophobia in South Africa., South Africa's aggressive attitude towards other Africans. Now I'm going to use that as a transition though, to get you to talk a little bit about the World Cup because we got Felix asking predictably And as the commiserations on Scotland being kicked out of the World Cup Who are you rooting for now? and maybe I want to expand that up to a sort of broader question of What do you think about this World Cup? What's interesting you? what's engaging you, now that your team's out, what are you going to be looking for and following? Well, I think the fact that two of the big European countries were knocked out less than Iight it was pretty extraordinary, Germany and the Netherlands I'll see what really surprised me and pleased me And maybe I owe President Trump an apology is how little he seems to be involved. and how little he seems to care. In Fantino, the head of FIFA has said that Trump will be at the final and will present the trophy with him in Fantino He just doesn't seem to be engaged in it at all And I wonder whether that's partly because he got booed at the New York Knicks When he went to the basketball, he got booed there. He maybe thinks he'll get booed at any game he goes to in the World Cup But also I think it's probably becausecause the football is taking off now, particularly now we're into the the knockout stages And it means that he won't be the main attraction Once you get to some really amazing football matches Trump won't be the main attraction. but that's what surprised me. I've actually I've really enjoyed the World Cup more than I thought I would. I think I thought that forty eight teams was ridiculous, but actually it's been amazing to see Capo Verde qualify get through. it was fantastic to see them wholeold Spain and then Oh wit wait this is big news. So you might support the World Cup doing this again? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think that has been good Yeah I think and we're now into kind of every Every game's going to be good now. I think that, you know, France, Sweden will be good England playing doctor Congo as they call of one of my daughter's friends calls of doctor Congo because this is DR Congo. So that's Democratic Republic. L, I'm very torn, Rory, because I'm obviously British and I like British teams always to do well. I was sad about Japan. I was sad about Japan because their fans were around numumbered about to one but you could hear them the whole game singing the same chant. They've got this song Vamos Nipon. okay? Let's go Japan. They sang it literally the whole game. I think England have got a very good chance of winning, but I'm very torn in the next one because DRC have got a Burnley player in the backline. Tran Zabi He so you know, his club war country is very, very hard. Anyway, there we are. and I'veoy I've enjoyed the World Cup. I'm sure you have too. You've been loving it obviously. I know absolute bug all about this and I'm about to say probably the most obvious thing in the world. But one of the things that struck me both with Wimbledon and with this World Cup is how some of the players who when I watched the World Cup in Qatar, I was told this was their last appearance because they were all getting old We're never going to see them again. have all popped up again four years later. Like your look alite, Lua Modrich. Exactly. So I think it's kind of interesting how people are prolonging their playing players. and Oddly, some of these old dudes seem to be still scoring goals Name an odd dude who's still scoring goals. Leonel Messi, for example's pretty old. extraordinary. He is absolutely extraordinary. And when I saw him in Qatar, I saw him moving pretty slowly around the pitch. I didn't think four years later he'd be scoring goals. Well, Lurie, I will be playing in a charity match in Croatia at the end of August with Lua Modrich. I am going to be captaining Lua Modrich And I think we've both reached that stage of our careers where we're allowed just to control the game by slowly moving and flicking the ball in different directions. That's my strategy for that game. Two of my heroes together and you and you and Modrich. Exactly. Now third hero of mine or temporary hero of mine, which I want to plug a bit, Malcolm Turble, the former Pime Minister of Australia. Now this is really going to wind up Australian listenens that I've managed to name Malcolm Turnbull as one of my new heroes. s There will be many Australian listeners with very, very strong views against Malcolm Turnbull. The fact that I'm projecting onto him a sort of vision of a kind of center friendly, right kind of reincarnation of a a more effective slicker part of the David Gork style of conservatism, but we've just infedom on leading And I'd be really interested to hear what people make of the interview just search leading wherever you get your podcast And we have a new party in Australia. Noah has asked, how significant is Australia's new party could it be done in the UK? Bter background again. The story that we've been talking about a lot with Australia recently is The very surprising rise of one nation, very surprising rise of this far right party who many people had written off over decades because Hul through voting preferential voting wouldn't seem to favor parties, Pauline Hansen, many people saw as not being a very effective campaign and now it's looking really strong counter move to that is something coming much more with a teal flavour and remind people about that. That was this wonderful movement that really captured imaginations around Sydney where you had people who are fiscally conservative, environmentally friendly very impressive women who both first met when we were in Sydney. back over to you on that. I enjoyed Malcolm Termbble. He was put in the boot into Donald Trump, which always gets him in my good books. He also was pretty brutal about Kir Starmer. He'd watched Kar Starmerer in the Queen's Speech debate. He happened to be in London, went to Parliament W the debate. And as I said in the main podcast, he sent us a message about Andy Burnham saying he thought he was going to be pretty good. Anyway, look he's a Tory, but as know the new Alistair Campbell Rory, I recognize that not all Tories are evil, okay? So I think I think he's a good listen, and I'm glad that we had him on. It is interesting this sort of idea of a new party Part of the appeal of the TLs in a sense was that they weren't a party. I think I'm right that only two TLs have signed up So far, there is some suggestion that actually a lot of this is about trying to raise funds for centrist candidates. But Australian politics is always interesting, but I think it's very interesting at the moment for all sorts of reasons, One that you've mentioned the onene Nation partarty Also, the government's budget didn't really go down that well and the one Notation party has kind of exploited it pretty well. Some polls have now got ping en Hance as their preferred prrime minister. Another interesting change in the Liberal partarty, their tour is, Tony Abbott and fair to say Malcolm Turnbble, not a massive fan of Tony Abbott. He's now been made president of the Liberal Party. Now it's only an honorary role, but that suggests to me that they're going to move further to the right And I'm going to make a prediction that their current leader, Angus Taylor is not going to last. I just don't think he's cutting it And we're going to go down the former SAS route There's a guy called Andrew Hasty, HAS T I E Very good communicator Quite a big thinker as well. and he has quotes declared war on the onene Nation partarty, which says to me he is not going down the route of saying the way to outflank the far right is to be a bit more like them. It's the Al Khn's approach to politics Well, it's the Ar Khan's approach to politics in terms of the backstory And Alhnes is very, very busy on the media at the moment. What I still don't quite know about Al Khnes is what he stands for in the political core as it were. Just to remind people for a second, Al Khans is this defence minister with this incredible military record, I a genuine war hero, special forces, action man to I've been very interested in because I think he could prove a real retail offering for labour, but he's been out there setting tests for the Prime Minister, which I guess for a good labour loyalist like you is pretty uncomfortable and makes you raise your eyebrows a bit Final question, Alista, from George, very much directed towards you, but I want to just stick something in before you give us the answer, which is Alista, do you still keep a diary have you ever missed today? The reason I was going to stick on me is I've just discovered my grandmother's diary written almost exactly a hundred years ago It's not your type of diary, it's a tiny little book. She writes just a page about this size every day, and it's the year running up to her wedding to my grandfather it's astonishingly frank. I mean, I had no idea about the sort of social life and relationship life of a bright young thing in late nineteen twenties, early nineteen thirties, London, but it's pretty racy stuff. Oh Pret exciting. So my mother doesn't really approve of my reading it, my aunt who saw me with it said I'm not really sure that your grandmother would have intended you to get hold of it But my grandmother died fifty years ago and she wrote this a hundred years ago. and I think it is the most moving, fascinating account of a twenty one year old' love life her thoughts about marriage her thoughts about travel and her emotional journey, which resulted in my appearance because the kind of the thing ends with her gettingetting married after lots of ups and downs and marriage, you know almost broken off and is she doing the right thing, married to my grandfather, giving my mother and me and now my children Wow. would I mean, Lurie, I can feel the ears of publishers tricking up all around Bloomsbury. it create wouldould it create a big family rift if you suddenly decided that an introduction by you of this book A tell it's so interesting though, because I'm reading a book of the month. There's a German Novelist calleds Charlotte a Link I think I may have mentioned it before and I discovered her books because near the French town where I am now They have this thing where these leave books are lying around and I saw this German book one day and I picked it up and I read it, I loved it. She sets a lot of her novels in the UK. she's got a particular thing about the Yorkshire Moors She actually goes the late district for quite a of her novels, but The latest one is a German couple Go to North Yorkshire. to try to repair their marriage and they end up being snowed in, okay They're running out of firewood and they're running out of paper They try to sort of stay alive in this remote Yorkshire cottage. And she stumbles across a book the autobiography written by somebody who lived in the house in the last century. So a very, very similar story. So the book then becomes a book within a book And it goes through the First World War, it goes through the suuffragette movement. It' just anyway, I'm absolutely loving it, but it sounds very, very similar. So I think you should tell the story of how you discovered The story of your grandmother who gave life to you. I think that's a great great thing. This weird question about Wh she kept it, whether she intended it to be found. I mean, Shashana and my aunt were saying she probably didn't intend her grandson to read it. She probably just On various occasions when she thought, shouldall I throw this away? I thought o no I'll keep it and put it in a drawer This question of, yeah, what is privacy in family? What are scandals in family? What are you allowed to talk about? what she can't talk about? I mean And one of the amazing things when I do ancestry DNA is that I find all these extraordinary scandals in my family history. suicides, one of my relatives marrying an Afro Caribbean doctor in the nineteen twenties, which would have been You know, really big news at time, N none of which I was ever told about. And these close relatives because everybody thought it was better just not to talk about these things. I think I can feel in my family and other animals coming on, Rory. I think you've got your next book called all lined up. once you've done your little middle lamp tour, I think this is your book. Back to the question of diary. I do still keep a diary. I very rarely miss a day but I am much, much, much less disciplined about it than I was. And the reason for that is that I I made a terrible mistake about Th think about ten years ago now, when I started to type it And it's just not the same. And I should go back to pen paper ink I'm just not as good as it. I just I keep being asked by publishers, you know, can you, I mean, I think I'm up to I'm up to the Ed Millibander in terms of politics. So I've got I've got several million words sort of sitting there But I don't feel I'm as disciplined as I was and I regret that. I'm not going to tell you what it's about Rory. I have started work on another book though. Oh good. I won't tell you about interest is done. Very good. Well, this is a bit of a sign off for me because I'm about to retreat into my eleven day silent meditation retreat, getting up at four thirty in the morning, going to bed and not speaking twenty one for ten days. A so, you're going to be on with Another co presenter, which will be probably be a cheery change for the public. Your announcement of your planned adultery with Louis Goodor I am now going to be committing pultery with Medi Hassan He's going to be standing in for you and u He's got a very good brain. I'm not saying you haven't got a good brain or. you've got a very good brain as well, but I like Medi Hasan's brain and that's why he and I will be doing the rest of politics and question time next week. Well very exciting and I look forward to hearing it when I emerge. I will emerge, as you know, in a state of like Buddhists come for about two days and then I will revert back to my normal gibbering self Will you not even know who's still in the World Cup? Miss literally everything. I'll miss the American two hundred fiftieth anniversary celebrations because there's no phones, there's no books, there's no paper I'm stuck in a dormitory. And in this case I'm meditating almost entirely surrounded by Burmese nationals, which is another challenge because They are so much more disciplined and accustomed than I am to sitting cross legged for fourteen hours a day You don're not allowed to write anything. I can't no, can't can't write anything no paper, no pen, no phone, no I can't read anything, I can't listen to anything All I can do is sit in the dark from four thirty in the morning till ten at night trying to ignore the increasing extreme pain in my knees Pro, I don't know how you do it? Why are you doing it Why Wh It mean, well talk about it when I come out and see if I get a different answer this time. I've got a different answer every time. I think the answer is it tells me what the meaning of life is, but we'll work out. Maybe I'll just come out and say it was a total waste of time I know the meaning of life What's happening in life? I've delivered to live it. ye A little it Yeah. Okaykay. okay. we'll get back to that. All right Allright R, have a nice time. Thank you, byye bye. Bye Hello everybody. We've got some exciting news to share with you. We do indeed. As you all know, the Rest is Politities Plus members get early access to question time, they get a free listing, they get exclusive series and a host of other benefits. And probably for me the most exciting thing is these exclusive mini series we're doing. and right now we're holding a summer sale So you can get an extra twenty percent off on an annual membership from now until the end of August. If that sounds good, head to the rest ispolitics dot com and use the code summer twenty six when you purchase an annual plan. Make the most of this deal and join us for a busy summer ahead. We've got some brilliant new series coming your way. so new stuff coming, for example, on existential threats And then there's all this stuff out what are some of the min series that you've enjoyed you think people should be listening to? I've enjoyed them all, to be honest. I really liked the Gen Z series that Vicki Sprat did. I've enjoyed the recent one on the funding of reform. I've been very proud of some of the stuff we've been doing on AI. We now have a really good age for listeners going deep into AI around the world. So sign up now and start catching up with our special suummer twenty six code purchase on thereessolitics dot com d