Future Archaeology of Space

Welcome to the Rest of Science. I'm Hann Fryy And I'm Mael Steven. I got a question for you, Hannah. Tranquility base familiar with the place where they landed? It's where they landed. They being Neil Armrong and Buzz Aldrren When they landed on the moon and they became the first humans to walk on a celestial body that's not the Earth, they did it at what we call tranquility base and A lot of crap is still there, like hundreds of things, bags of their poop As well as the more obvious ones, like the flag they planted, the lower half of the lander. Any bags of beard hair, Michael? They have not confessed to leaving any beard hair on the moon. I like the idea there's a peg booard that's just all their offshoots. Bags of poop though. Footprints as well. The footprints. Now, when they left the moon They had to use this big propulsive blast to escape its gravity. And that blast probably knocked the American flag over. And we know it did because one of them, I forget who, one of them witnessed the flag being knocked over by their ascent In subsequent missions to the moon, they planted the flag much further from the lander. And those are still standing. Okay. But the flag is still there, it's just on the ground It's also been probably bleached white Because there's no atmosphere at all. So solar radiation on the mooon is so much stronger than here. I mean, even if it was on Earth, and you'd left it out on Earth, would it would be bleachedite by now. Yeah. So there're like white flags of surrender now that America has on the mooon, O of which is fallen over. It's a historical place Yeah No one's been back We barely know its status. We've had some satellite photos of it, but they're They're from high up above the moon and the stuff on the mooon is so small. You can't really make it out. C canan't even make it out Close Do you think NASA will allow someomeone to get to it. Well, I mean, surely can't they can't stop other people going. They can't Right. What if like the Chinese like, well, you know what? I don't want there to be a bleached white American flag on the ground. I'm going to change it for a Chinese flag. Yep. and I'm going dance around on Armstrong's footprints and erase them forever. It. Now here's the thing and this is the rub of today's episode They can't stop you No international law can stop you is what this episode is about. This episode is brought to you by Cancer Research UK. Scientists have found that cancer risks usually increase with age and size, but some species defy the odds. For example, deep sea Greenland sharks. They can grow over six meters long more than a small car and yet live for up to four hundred years. Now understanding how Green and sharks cellular repair and immune systems seem to have managed to keep them cancer free for centuries, that could open up exciting research pathways. 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That's why you rack I get so many headaches every month It could be chronic migraine, fifteen or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more Botox, Autobacha linum tooxin A prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have fourteen or fewer headache days a month If P presrescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, astma symptoms and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Luarics's disease, Myasthenia Gravis or Lambd Eaten syndrome and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects Why wait? askk your doctor, visit Botoxchronicmigraine. com or call one eight hundred four four Botox to learn more So Hannah, the strongest rule is that NASA has requested that please no one get within seventy five meters of the landing site. Oh, that's it. Is it because of the historical significance? Because of the historical significance. Because they don't own it. The United States of America agreed in the Outer Space Treaty of the seventies that yep no one owns outer space of common heritage of mankind. However, I should clarify that treaty that they agreed to says that Outer space belongs to no nations Technically it's not illegal. Go there It's illegal for a country to say they own tranquility base, but it's not illegal for Hannah Fry to hitch a ride on a private rocket, go up there and vandalize the whole the whole historical location Yeah, proved that it wasn't there after all, it was just filmed in a studio Yeah, exactly When it comes to the future of space travel and humans in space, I always find myself going, yeah, yeah, yeah, colonizeing exoplanets, whatever. B. What about building a park on Mars that preserves its surface and atmosphere as it was before we changed it I want the preservation of these places. The moon can become this big metropolis, but there should be large interstellar or interner planetary parks. Right. So instead of a national park It's like an interplanetary part. Exactly. that should be agreed upon and set aside so people can enjoy the way the mooon was before it got its human makeover. rightight? I have a question though. I feel quite certain that you can as like a sort of quiite joke Christmas present for Zumber Day By like a square foot of the moon. You can give someone money in exchange for a piece of paper that says you own a piece of the moon is what you can do. But you do not own the moon. You don't own that piece of the moon. There's no authority. You're saying, all those certificates are have in my wall are worthless. They're probably worthless. Unless you could get a country, preferably one with a strong military to Except I've got enough of them but I'm technically a lord on the moon. Do you actually have some? U, shoot. That would be cool I mean, especially kind of a gifts and it wasn't like you wasted your own money. I do think I have a star. a star like named after you or something. Right, Okaykay, which is better in a lot of ways, but just feels worse because it's further away. Well, my dream is to have a extraterrestrial park named after me. I don't really care where, but I would love for it to be like Hey, this is the like Michael Stehvens lunar park. you know, be sure to pick up your trash, you know, that kind of thing A lot of people just want a bench, you know? A bench, would I just want a park on the moon. Okay, I'm a simple guy. I That too much to ask. Michael enjoyed looking at this moon. No tombstone. You know what? giveive up on my like memorial toilet idea on Eth A memorial toilet on the mooon, however is still in the running. I still want that. Yeah, my dream is that there will be a day where people are can visit the moon and there's like boardwalks they walk on to walk around. tranquility base and they can see the first human footprint on the moon. Now we're not sure what its state is Was it damaged by the propulsion from the lander lifting off? We don't know. We haven't gotten close enough the momentos that they left, the little plaque that says, you know, hey, humans came here in peace and whatever, that's all still there. I guess I just really love Dh the historicalness of it U In fact, there are only four archaeological sites. Do not lie within the boundaries of a nation. Of a nation. Okay, so trranquility babhing one. That's one. Are there others on the moon? How you define an archaeological site is pretty vague. But there hasn't been a lot of official action taken for the other Apollo landing sites or other lunar Pro banding sites. The state of California and the state of New Mexico have declared tranquility base to be of historical importance to the state.. And the only reason Texas hasn't, which they should have a claim too, because mission control was in Houston, they actually have in their cononstitution that they cannot claim a historical section of land unless it's within the boundaries of Texas on Earth.. So anyway, the point is trranquility Base is a significant archaeological site that's not inside a nation. There are three others and they're all the well, no, two of them are the same kind of thing And one of them is not Oh, okay, I reckon surely The ocean has got to be the source of some of this. I reckon Titanic? The Titanic wreck. Okay, there's going to be another wreck then thing oh, what about where the meteor hit?er. No, that's within the boundaries of an Asia Is At least part of it, I'm sure. Yeah. But also that cannot be an archaeological site because let's define archeology. has to be human That's right. Archaeology is the study of the material culture of humans. Okay. Now often we think of archaeology as being prehistoric stuff, like the oldest of the old stuff, a little clay pot or something. but archaeology just means material culture. So there can be an archeology of the nineteen seventies. Last week. Yeah of last week. Yeah. There can be an archaeology of what the heck did I have for breakfast? And you're looking at the fork and the stain on the fork and you're going, ah yeah, I had the omelet that turned into scrambled eggs. Yeah.ee And you've just done archaeology. Eggs wow. And this isn't this isn't me joking. This is really what it is contemporary archaeology people are studying the material culture and what we can learn of the past from it off things that aren't even that old, off things that are like happening now even. Okay, all right. so so I've got two together, yeah? Yeah, so you've got the Titanic and trranquility base. Right. one of them another I think another one has got to be a sort of sunken something. There's another sunken ship that happens to be sunk outside the boundaries Mary Rose. I don't think I didn't know it. Go on. It's the SS Republic About a hundred kilometers off the coast of the US state of Georgia. Okay. It was full of gold. Right And I think in the nineties, a company, a private company managed to get like a third of its gold which is worth the millions I don't even think it's been resolved yet, but there's some there' Theres still some down there. There's two thirds of its gold isilled down. You know what? forget going to Tranquility Base. I'm going down there. to the SS Republic. Yeah I can't believe more people aren't trying to go there. Hello The problem is I think that there's a lot of disputes around it, as you would imagine, it's treasure. They're not gonna to be looking the whole time though. The last one, you're also not gonna to guess. Okay, wait, let me try let me Okay Is it not in the ocean? It's not in the ocean and it's not On another planet, Nope, including the Mon So it must be and it's not part of a nation. so it must be Antarctic. Heang, that's good. Yeahah. I reckon maybe Shackleton's Ship? No. So it must have been some sort of polar explorer U not not so much explorer actually No not so much explorer Go on tell me station Does that ring a bell? Hector station was a very old Whale oil factactory beforefore petroleum products like completely crush the market for whale oil, you would catch whales and then you'd have to like squeeze out their juice and that was great for lamp lightights and all kinds of things and sea shanties. And yeah But you can only squeeze out so much. L if you really want to get your money's worth out of a whale, you gotta boil the whole whale. transporting a whale back from Antarctica to where you can boil it It's veryy cost prohibitive. So at Hector Station on Desolation Island, that's really the name of it. Desolation Island Antarctica, they built a big whale boiling factory. Oh and the tanks are still there and they look so cool. W Look it up. It's like steam punk style, right? It's that that era of metal boilers and they've been abandoned for more than a hundred years and they're all rusted and It's so it's so middle of nowhere. Okay it's like, Wha. That looks so sci fi. Sci fi. That's the right word for it. yeah.. So it looks like for those of you who are listening, it looks like the diving suits that people used to wear in the very earliest days of exploring the bottom of the ocean. So you have these gigantic rusted domes What you would just pop a whale in one of those domes and then boy I think they stored the whale oil in those. I don't know a lot about the whale oil business. No No me neither. Wow, this is absolutely incredible. Okay, and then there's like sheds that are all falling apart and inside it looks very much how you would expect a kind of Victorian era whaling station to look, incredibly weathered but also just I don't know. archaic basically. Eactly the design. And unlike a lot of other Victorian era artifacts, this one is really untouched because No one goes there. No one's built you know, a pizza hut in a McDonald's next to it. It was just abandoned and it's just been there frozen. So it's not being affected by the same kinds of erosion and weather events. I mean, obviously the weather in Antarctica on Desolation Island is not great It's called desolation forree from human intervention. So no one owns that. No one owns the land of Antarctica. Yeah, it doesn't belong to any particular nation. Because no one no one lives there permanently. You know, I think that they have only ever been Let me see The number of people born in Antarctica is zero? No. Is it nad? It's not zero. Some pregnant person went to Antarctica by that logic. If you take the American rule of if you're born in this land, you're a citizen of it. It's a country of four people But Antarctica doesn't have birthright citizenship. It has no citizenship It's not a nation. No. is it is like by treaty a like a heritage site for all mankind for scientific research. It's eleven, by the way. eleven people even. Yeah. and it's not by accident they were they were planned geopolitical manoeuvvers by Argentina and Chile Um Yeah to strengthen the territorial claims over the island. Sure. I was gonna say it's's that's a political move. You don't just go there and you're like, oh, I'm kind of pregnant But like whereere did this come whoops, I missed the boat back. Guess I'll have to deliver it here and become famous. Yeah, I get it. I get it. So So it' fact if you'll indulge me, I've got some cool things about archaeology that I want to share. and it's always it's forming a bedrock of where we're going probably in this episode When it comes to archeology, not only It' kindind of cool to realize that you can have an archeology of any time period. alsoso the definition of an artifact. is really neat. How would you define an artifact? H let me see. I would say it's an object that holds some interest or value? Yeah yeah, basically. I mean, technically, an artifact is just an object, a physical object that was made or altered by a human But then that means everything is an artifact, including the rubbish that you've chucked out. Yeah, that's an artifact for sure. Garbageology? Garbology, it's like a whole like emerging field of how to study the behaviors, the diets and the mindsets of people even just last year as opposed to twenty years ago. I mean through their garbage. I mean, if you we had a field notes a little while ago or maybe coming up depending on when they released in the schedule where we had some garbage of ice age humans. Exactly, exactly. And so here's what's actually pretty cool about it That fossil that you showed or will show in a future episode. isn't an artifact Ecofacts. on Because a human didn't make it, it was grown by the reindeer. and the the human maybe altered it, but it was all just evidence of maybe a meal that they had. So like the bones that you chuck in the bin after your KFC. Exactly are ecoacts. Yes, they're called ecoacts or bioacts And those are Things that used to be alive that have some kind of significance to human culture. Have interacted with the human at some point. Yeah. And the human may not have technologically done anything to them, but the fact that we find a bunch of bones in that location means that this is where they slaughtered the animals or where they ate, or it's where they dumped their trash seeds and pollen, those all show us as well things about the lives of humans. But the humans weren't like actively meaning to change these things. But here's where it gets really, really neat Also a thing called a Geofact goo on, a geoact is a natural rock formation lookooks like a human made it Didn't Okay. Yes. So this is not something that is geological that has interacted with humans in some way, this is something that you think might be human linked but ism. Yes. Are we talking here about like For example, the hexagonal rocks that you get, like giant causeway, for instance where it's like they look so perfectly sculpted that it's really difficult to believe that they occurred by nature. Yeah, yeah, you could call that a geoact. In general, it helps if someone or if there's even still a continuing debate over whether or not its shape is natural coincidental or human made Right. So for example Venus of Tantan. Look it up. Okay, h on. Now we've all seen these Venus sculptures. These are some of the oldest arrtistic creations of representing the human form Are you looking at it? This is like Jesus in the toast, isn't it? Exactly. It's like Jesus in the toast. So for those of you who are listening The Venus of Tantan is a rock and it could be an artifact or it might be a geofact. There's actually a lot of debate around this. But it's a rock is shaped Somewhat like a person. canan I give a description Please Okay. You've seen those those fertility objects that people have crafted tens of thousands of years ago, in particular where they really accentuate like a woman's bust or a woman's hips or a woman's thighs. And there's something of that about this. It's essentially a rock six centimeters tall blob shaped But it looks like it could be just a bad plastocenine model of a human. And the things that kind of give away that it's been interacted with is that when held upright, it almost looks like it's got split into two legs. and then there's sort of like a quite flabby butt that that hangs over the edge But I can completely see how turn this another way and it's just actually a normal rock with a crack in it. Exactly It's really hard to tell and no experts fully agree on whether or not Anthropomorphic shape of that rock is a coincidence Or if it's actually piece of art madeade that way by an early human. And by early, I mean early. So the Venus of Tantan was a rock found in nineteen ninety nine in Morocco And based on the sediments it was found and it's been dated around three hundred to five hundred thousand years before present. So if it was created by a very early homo sapien or some other hominid thenen that means that it is the oldest by far known representation of a human form or a hominid form. But experts don't know And I think it almost feels like They might both be right, it could be both. It could be a geoact and an artifact meananing an intelligent creature may have found that and gone kind of looks like a person I'm gonna cut these grooves a bit deeper and add to it so it even looks more like a person. Right. But it already did to begin with and that's why we don't see as many signs of human action as we do, but maybe we see some. So it may have been Earth and humans working together to make a little statue of a Because remind me where we are at this point So three hundred thousand years ago, I mean, there's tool use at this point. R. There's fire, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. But the actual species Homo sapiens is just beginning. Right. So it could have been Homo erectus that found that. But it's not like they have knives because they haven't got No, but they would have had other rocks. Right could have existed. Yeah, scraped on it or whatever. When it was found, the rock that it was found among Did it belong there or did it look as though it was in a natural environment, as it were? That is a beautiful question, because it brings me to the very next kind, the last kind of artifact I wantanna talk about. I tell you what, I think we should probably go for a little break. Yeah, yeah. And we'll be back in a moment with more Hi, this is Garalinica from Gold Hangers. The restest is foootball. This episode is brought to you by Wise. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee and what might be hidden away in the small print Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate and easy transfer and no surprises along the way. Wise keeps things simple. Wise is a smart way to move the currencies you need around the globe. 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Law Supplies last ends june thirtieth, terms at aka dot mS slash college Pc When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed spponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this shel will get a seventy five dollars sponsored job credit at indndeed dot com slash podcast That's indndeed d. com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apppply. Ned a hiring hero? This is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. Okay, we're back and there's more. The Venus of Tantan. did not look like it just kind of naturally wound up there And so here's a great word Mia port Oh, I love it.. Manuport is like the word manuscript. Okay. Manuscript means hand wrritten. Manuport means hand carried. Love it. And so a manuport is something that we find that has not been technologically altered or made by humans, but it's in the wrong place. It's in the wrong place. Oh, I love this. Same with the Venus of Tantan might have been early hominid could have been Homo sapien saw it, said, that's a cool rock G up carried it with them, showed it to their friends. Maybe they did some extra scraping to like really accentuate the human form that they saw in it And then they lost it. And then we found it later. It's out of place, so it's a maniaort, but whether or not it's just a maniaort or if it's actually an artifact because it was made is an unknown question. But let me bring up an even cooler ania port. I'm absolutely here for this. This is you' talking my language. Okay. so this is cooler.orry, didid you say rocks, Michael? Yes, I will have a long conversation. R. This is my favorite. It's called the Makaponscot pebble. And it was discovered in the nineteen twenties based on where it was found, it's been dated to nearly Three million years ago. Yes. Wait, is that when it'sm when it was formed? No. That's when it was laid on the ground. Right because it's found amongst other sediments. That's right. It's been found amongst other sediments and other layers have piled up on top of it for almost three million years. To be precise, I don't know how they've dated this to this degree, but it's two point nine five million years ago It was left on the ground and lost. Where is this again? This was This was discovered in South Africa. Okay in the nineteen twenties. Right. And for those of you who are watching, this is what it looks like. For those of you listening, it looks like a pebble That happens to have three little divots cut in it, like the holes in a bowling ball. Looks like a face. It looks like a face. It looks like a face. It looks like a really crude skeleton. Yeah, it does look like a bit of a skull, doesn't it? But's it's been studied really intensively and there's just no evidence at all that this was Carved by a creature. And I say creature because there were no homo saabiens three million years ago This would have been in fact, in the same sediment, like nearby found skeletons of australopithecus specimens. That's like an early hominid before humans as homo sapiens evolved. okay This becomes almost certainly a manuort almost certainly an instance of, oh, let me also clarify that it's made of Jasperite And the nearest Jasperite that you could even find is at least thirty two kilometers away from where it was. I loved this so much. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So it's hard to believe anything, but the story that three million years ago Australopithecus, an early hominid animal that no longer exists U probably walked up, right? We don't even know all we know is that creature of that age of that era found that rock. for some reason cararried it dozens of kilometers probablyro because they thought Guys, this kind of looks like a face, right? Oh my gosh, that isist coolest thing. It's really cool and it's because it is so old, it also gives us a peek at what might be at least a bridge into the first abstract symbolic thought that hominids ever had. Because maybe this creature thought it was worth holding on to because it had the face inside it. Because basically the creature did the Jesus in the toast thing and it was like, that's pretty cool. Exactly, the Jesus in the toast thing, the paridolia thing. Now animals fall for this all the time. I mean, you can put a cucumber behind a cat If it turns and looks, it'll think it's a snake at first offuffen and jump, right? This is this is like not new to Uh, look at a rock and go, Ay, that's kind of like our faces And then to pick it up and carry it with you is a different sort of behavior. Raccoons and birds, they love interesting things. They like shiny things. I'ious. I've got a dog who has had a branch that they were obsessed with, you know, that they really particularly wanted to keep and take home. That's right. And I think there's a lot of things they love about that stick, but I don't think that it abstractly resembles a prototypical geometric shape that they're used to like their own face. And maybe, maybe it's this is just a coincidence. Maybe just the fact that these marks on it that have this face like structure is just a total fluke But it does seem extremely unusual that you would have this artifact that have been carried so far in an era where so few creatures could do it. Exactly. and it not be because of what it looked like. Yeah. And I want to I want to be careful. Your dog might actually look at that stick that he loves or she? She that she loves and go You remind me of my mother, but probably not, but I'm open to that possibility. But there are a lot of other reasons why a dog would carry a stick around. They love chewing on sticks. But there aren't a lot of other reasons to carry this stone around for so long. So it could be evidence that as early as three million years ago, hominids were starting to think and see and categorize in these like ever increasingly abstract ways Do you know what? I think that's my favorite story you've ever told me. Oh, really? I reallyally, really, really love that I really love that. Maka Pon's gotot Peble it blew my mind when I read about it. It's geology and anthropology and like the wonder of humanity and our existence and where we came from and our ancestors and But there's something also that just like really connects us. we're all sort of the same, right? all creatures like, hey, look at this cool thing, Isn't it awesome? And then the idea that there's this one physical object that has had this journey that then has been found. and now all of us are like, wow, what is this? There's something so alien and yet so comforting about it. I want to eventually get into talking about space archaeology. just before I'm sorry. No, go ahead I don't know better be important. It better be good. The thing I often think about is that This idea that we are so locked into, that every single parcel of land within a nation has titles Deeds Ownership This really wasn't always the case No, no, and it doesn't have to. And it doesn't have to be. And it's sort of, if you think about it in nature It doesn't make any sense for it doesn't make any sense that you would have hard boundaries between landscapes that say this is mine and this is yours. Well, animals are certainly territorial. sure But humans have constructed giant edifice of ritual and law and enforcement around this concept of ownership. And it's incredibly intricate Unlike other animals, humans also do things pretty differently because like a wolf pack might claim their territory, right and defend it or whatever they don't ask questions that we can like Well, wait a second. if this is our territory, how far down does it go and how far up Are those birds in our territory? They don't. They don't ask that But people ask us all the time, I think we've actually been emailed this question quite a few times. Okay Okay, so I own my land. But like how far into the sky does my claim go and how far down? When a plane goes over my house, do I own it? That's right. Does it need to pay me rent? Does it Yeah, can I charge them for the few seconds that they were over my property or the fraction of a second? And you can't. There was an ancient like Latin phrase and I'm not going to even try to pronounce it, but the phrase meant Whever owns the soil owns everything up to heaven and down to hell.? And that just made sense to them But of course They had that saying before the invention of airplanes, before the discovery of oil. before it was recognized that deposits of certain metal ores would be valuable as a separate right to sell or give to others And so today How high above your land and how down below it you own is either very legislated based on where you live or not at all because it just doesn't come up People will say things like, well, do I own like three miles below me? Sure Why not? It's never It's never going to come up. Yeah was What are you going to do with land three miles below your house with like the rocks down there How are you going to get at them You have the right to them, perhaps But you don't have the right to bring in the heavy machinery required to do a super deep borehole down below your ground because of all kinds of regulations and ordinances. So you just can't ever get to it. You can't get. Okay, But then the oil one is a really interesting example, because what if there's an oil field that goes underneath your house? right Do you have a claim over that Again, it depends on where you live. In most places in Texas, you don't. They make it very clear that you own the surface rights to your property And that's because there's a lot of oil there and they thought about this and they've already sold all the rights to any oil found in this area to certain companies or individuals. So if you find oil, you probably found someone else's oil. And that can be very annoying And then when it comes to the airspace above your land The Supreme Court in the United States actually had to say something about this because people were complaining about airplanes. and by people, I mean, at first it was farmers that airplanes were flying too low over their land And the Supreme Court was like, Here's the problem I know it's been this thing for a long time that you own everything up to heaven above your land. I mean, it's in Latin for gonna to s. It's in Latin is. You know, it's very persuasive But it's just not reasonable anymore Like we cannot allow all landowners to constantly be leasing out their airspace to every single airplane that might happen to fly over. And so the answer in most jurisdictions is that you own the area above your land to a height of reasonable use. What is that though? What is reasonable use? It depends on what you're doing Like you cannot build a structure of a certain height because of different zoning restrictions. Here's what I'm thinking though. Let's say I've got a neighbor that I really intensely dislike. o Yeah. I'm talking about this in my sort of know London townhouse, okay Can I build a really, really, really, really, really tall ladder? okay on my land above my house? And then a platform that goes over the top of their house that just blocks out the sun so they don't get any sun No, you probably can't. I'm sure there are regulations on what sorts of structures you can build on your land. Okay, new idea. Can I get a hot air ballon permanently hover above their house. Well, you've got to have a license to operate a hot air balloon because other people could be harmed by mistakes that you made or accidents caused by your operationational of a hot air balloon. So what I'm getting at is that if you say you own the airspace above your home, but also airplanes can fly over it, then what does it really mean to say you own it? Because there are already laws against all the different ways we can imagine using that space. Same with the space down below. Now that does bring up some pretty fun questions like, all right, all right. Who owns the center of the Eth? Right, becausecause also actually, if you think about the surface and going down to the center If you peel it off in shells, they get smaller and smaller as you go down. So there's more and more claims on That's right. So the wedges of land on the surface, they just come to a point at the same. Teny, teeny, tiny in the someone made a joke once that like neear the center of the earth, like everyone's your neighbor. It's true. And so again, there hasn't been a lot of official judicial rulings on this because it never comes up. Right, but there's good stuff down there. There's good stuff down there. Really good stuff down there. I mean too put this into perspective, the earth is what's the Radius of the Eth? It's six thousand three hundred and seventy one kilometers. on average. On average. o. I was gonna to say, there's definitely let's be precise here. Excuse me, which axis are we measuring here. But all that matters is six thousand is a really big number. And that's the distance from the surface of the Eth to the center. Is it deepest anyone has ever H is Not six thousand Not a thousand Telve Telve kilometers is the depth of the Cola super deep borehole. What? Which the Russians dug. That's nothing. It's nothing. It's only a third of the way through the crust It's not even close to the next part the mantle that we all learn about in school, and like we haven't even gotten halfway there. This is really destroying my plans to dig all the way through and have a bungee jump system. Yes that you just bounce back and forth forever. The borehole that they dug I think a lot of the reason they did it was it was sort inverse space race Be you can go. Yeah. and can we beat the Americans at it? Because America had tried something like this and they gave up. And so the Russians were like Well would We didn't beat them to the moon, but we can beat them to the mantle. How hard can it be? How hard could it be Turns out terribly hard. and surprisingly hard and frighteningly hard. Go on. Here's what they did. So they start digging, right? And they just are going to dig and they get deeper and deeper and they they don't really know what to expect One hypothesis was that there's not going to be any water after a certain depth because the ground will become too densely packed for even water to permeate. Too much pressure. But they kept finding water, like liquid water way deeper than any scientists at the time thought was possible. Like pools of water, or are we talking about just sort of soaked into the porousness of the rock I actually don't know I don't think they found underwaters, but it was wet. Also, they figured that Down there you know, beyond ten kilometers down, the temperature could be above boiling. like one hundred Celsius two hundred, twelve Fahrenheit.ize hot. Yeah, they expected it to be hot But it was Hotter than they'd expected. Instead of being about one hundred, it was like one hundred and eighty Celsius, like three hundred sixty five, like hot roasting potato temperature. down twelve kilometers below the earth.. And we still don't know why it was so much hotter than expected. Yeah. Obviously, the first thing you go to is hell is real And they are getting close. I feel like that's the only sensible explanation. So they stopp they just they just stopped and not because they were scared, because pressure and heat. Stone the rock that they were drilling through stopped acting like stone and acts like plastic drag like the grip that the material had on the drill bit just made it not it didn't work. I also want to know for twelve kilometers down Did they have like stages where it's like you start off with a really big borehole and then you have a slightly smaller one and then a slightly smaller one? Or are you just like, is it just a one twelve kilometer long drill bit? It's just, oh, no, they don't have a twelve kilometer long drill bit, but they I don't know how you drill a hole that deep. Right. I don't know, actually Yeah But I have always wondered, like where are these twelve kilometers long drilled? I think they hatch coming through. They've gotten shafts that I'm sure are like segmented Andll they'll drill until it's at the bottom and they have to like pull it up And they'll only pull up to like a joint. And then they'll separate at the joint, add in another section and then go down. So you're not having to pull the whole thing out every time. Yeah, that makes sense. actually I actually went on Jimmy Kimmel to talk about this borehole. This exact. I mentioned it in a video. and then someone from his team called up and they were like Jimmy wants you to talk about big holes. I can do that, Jimmy. And I played up the heat thing a bunch on the show. I was like, it was hotter than they expected and they stopped I didn' I didn't explain that it was because of the material properties of the stone. That wasn't because a demon came out or anything. What you're saying is we get theended we get the director's cut version that you did not give That's right to. This is the extended director's cut of my Jimmy Kimmel appearance. Okay, so I wanted to say when was this, by the way? The Borehole, the Cola suuper deep Borehole was completed in nineteen eighty nine reaching Just a little over twelve kilometers in depth. I mean, if you if you turn that into a supersellar You could have swimming pools down there, you could have cinema rooms down there, ball rooms down there. It's really narrow. It's like this it's like really even fit your head down it. Yeah. Okay. Swimming pool for ants. A swimming pool for ants, That's right. But it's a swimming pool for no one right now because you know what they did? Tell me. They just welded a lid over it. What? So there's like a little like smaller than a manhole because this is this is a thin borehole and they've just welded it over and You can't, you can't even like drop things down it. Okay, but if you did, if you did open it up, and just like drop something down it and be like, listen for twelve kilometers before it hits the button. How long would that take, I wonder? It's a very simple calculation. You know, I think people falling down wells, by the way, used to be a quite common occurrence And it doesn't happen like it should anymore Tes are just getting worse. Sometimes I think we forget to be grateful about the society that we live in now, but falling down a well is not something that we continually. That's right. Like kids today are all on their phones. Back in my day, they were falling down wells like God intended. Yeah. I mean, look, wells just they're great, but I think that Like even when I was a kid, there was baby Jessica fell down a well and was rescued. Wh's baby Jessica? Oh my gosh, you're so not American gave it away. Well lookook it up guys. it's a heroic story. Since then, I think just municipal water supply to rural areas has made wells a lot less prevalent and a lot less therefore dangerous. All the same though, that Ca borehole super deep boreh. Stupid gibbot cred.'s almost certainly full of water now. Probably right? A booiling at the bottom. Oo, Maybe it's a bit of a gezer. A bit of you mean a geyser? Is that Is that how you guys pronounce geyser? A geer. A geazer. It's a word with double meaning. A bit of a geyser. Right, but geyser also means like an old person. A geer is definitely male Okaybody who would enjoy football and drinking pintes of beer. That's so different. In America, a gezer is a really old person. Is it? Oh, look at those gezers and it's like some people who can barely walk. Oh. yeah. It's sort of like a bit of a wide boy, you know? No, I don't.omeone someomeone who probably enjoys betting That's what a gezer is to you. It a gezer O it's a spout of water from geothermal heat. Yeah because that's what happens there, right? is that you have You have a really long crack runs down or a hole that runs down I mean nowhere near as far as the super deep bore hole. But if you get like a crack that appears So not just vertically but horizontally where you get superheated water. Oh, like a kettle, like a natural kettle, right? And then the pressure difference can mean that will sort of need to release as it builds out, the pressure builds up and it releases and then you end up Th like no spouts of water. You get them in Iceland a lot for example. Yeah And you call it a geyser and I call it a geyser. Yeah. I it might be an Icelandic word. Because I don't live that far away from Yellowstone National Park. Oh yeah of course. Where you've got old faithful I think they're called geysers because the first English speakers to see one were like Hey, what's that? And some dude was like, Ah, that's just the old faithful guy And then he you realizeed it was his superior and goes, sir That's called a belabored pun. I enjoy that, I enjoy that. Giza is it is an Icelandic word and you do say Geizer in British English. I didn't Make it up. I'm sure you didn't. Yeah. Yeah,s it is a hot spring in southwestern Iceland called Gisa, Gisa North means to gosh So the word Geyser for the natural phenomenon comes from the Icelandic geeezer. Can canan I tell you the Americanism, the American word annoys me the absolute most Yeah Entrees to mean Mon cool. I know is so annoying. I know, that has been a huge point of confusion for my daughter because She sees on a menu, entree. And my wife considers that the like appetizer, which is in France, it's the starter as it should be because the word is like the entuction entrance, the entree. But then in America, I don't know why, but I'm sure there's a good reason why. Now it means your main course And so my daughter hears from my wife that it means appetizer, and then from me doing the etymology that it means the beginning. And then we're like, but disregard what we've said because actually it means the main course. There was once when I was filming in Northern California with the Uok tribe, with some indigenous Americans talking about ownership of land, I mean, the whole idea of land being kind of cut up into parcels that are owned by individual people was something that just didn't make any sense at all to the indndigenous Americans. and it's still ongoing fights about exactly that And I was there filming with them about a story around a river and ownership of the river Anyway, I got him really well with this chief. It was really amazing And as we were chatting, I mentioned to him much how annoying I found the entre thing. And I sort of said to him, you know what? I think the worst thing about Americans, the worst thing about Americans is that they do this, right? that this is what they do And his response was okay, o okay The worst thing The worst thing, Aans the worst thing of all. That's the thing that annoys you, the absolute most. Everything else they've done to the tribe that you're here to Hails in comparison comparis entree business. Right, but hear me out, though, because here's my argument. because I think what's clearly happened though is that they've sort of taken a bit of French culture taken it for their own and not paid any respect for the origin of where it came. It's the same thing. Thin end of the wedge, Michael. Yeah. My goodness. I found another manu for. He got to show it to me 'causeuse it's really good. Okay, three hundred thousand years ago. Okay. Also Morocco. Oh, oh, I know what it is. I know what it is.. It's the. Yeah, the air food cuttlefish. Yes. D wereere you just looking them up? Did you already know about? No no, I'm just looking it up. Okay, so I didn't know if this would be appropriate for the podcast, but yes, Do you want to tell us about it? Sure, I can tell you. So this is it's a cuttlefish fossil and Well it's part of a cuttlefish fossil. Okay, bye It was found at a site near the towns of Eford and Brusani in Eastern Morocco. found among a dense cluster of stone tools, right? So really early humans. no evidence of carving or shaping have been detected Cutfish fossils are not native to this region aturate So it has been moved. It has definitely been manu ported. and the reason why this wine is quite famous becausecause it looks very phallic S we say L so much so Pedia doesn't even have an image of itight So I had to Google it. and as soon as I Googled it, everyone eating breakfast around me was like, this guy. Honestly I couldn't believe it. You could not have this off on your screen at work, that way. And so can you can clearly see why a prehistoric, like earliest homo sapen possible ' three hundred thousand years ago is about when our species emerged saw that and was like es Oh my gosh, you gota show this to Sarah. and they like carry it around forever. It's a big joke. and it's a cuttlefish fossil. that suddenly appears in Morocco very far from where it originated. This makes me, I cannot tell you how happy this makes me. Isn't it? It's like something that we share that hasn't changed three hundred year old dick jokes. Yeah Absolutely amazing. So would what would you say is going on here? Because I don't think there's an experience that non human animals have that's like this. We know that birds and raccoons and they all love curious shiny things. But they don't hold them on, pass them around as far as we know especially for reasons that are so abstracted away They might think it's curious because it's shiny. But they don't go, this looks like. rememember that one time, Ted when your pants fell down, thats And then and then it's like a whole running gag their whole lives and two generations. But that's what these manuorts rep That's what they are. That's what they are Absolutely amazing. Tell you what this makes me wonder though is like In three hundred thousand years time What are the things that are going to be left? What are the things that people are going to see where where they infer how we are and how, you know our own character and the things that we find funny and the things that we find amusing. Exactly. and that's why I started with trranquility Base because we are still liivving in constantly What will be archaeological sites for the future. And increasingly these significant, like super significant human archaeological sites will not even be on Earth. And so being mindful of how we preserve them. is a great gift that we can give to people in the future When Hector station was being used in Antarctica, they didn't think like, hey, this is a great way for us to preserve Victorian industry. They just abandoned it and it's kind of falling apart and rusted We can say No one touched tranquility base No one touch the perseverance rovers and we can leave the curiosity, leave it there. We're going to eventually make it an exhibit right in situ, right where it is And this isn't just like a little like poetic dream of mine. It's happening now and it makes me so happy There's a group out of Chapman University and USC out of Southern California And they're running a program or they ran a program for many years, very recently, just in the last three or four years. And the program was called The sampling quadrangle assemblages research experiment right. You academic. I know, I know. But here's what they did. They said, guys, the International Space Station is this whole new kind of human settlement, where there are people who live there and they have to work with completely different variables. There is gravity. There's no G. There's no G. There's no weight And we're just kind of like, dating it all the time and new people come in and leave and like we need to remember how early base Lvers lived So they made little taped squares, quadrangles all over the ISS. and like every few minutes or every few hours, the astronauts would take a picture of that square, everything that was in that taped square They didn't pose it. These weren't posed photos. This was just like, ah, I gott to take that photo of the table and they would do it And so you learn by looking at these, like, o, that's how often they use frosting. And hey, what was that? Oh, that's a thing that they were doing as this joke one day. And you tell the story very candidly, very fly on the wall. about human culture in the twenty twies in outer space. and it's preserved better than what probably would be left to people in the future if we didn't take photos like that. Absolutely. Otherwise it just ends up being erased by what comes immediately after it. That's right Yeah That's it. I guess we're looking back in the past at these tiny little fragments, these like whispers of what went before And it's only by actively and proactively making the choice to try and preserve what we have that that we're leaving anything for the future. I know. And just like These Australopithecuses left us a funny face shaped rock and it shows us their transition from from like speking to hominid thinking Who knows what we're doing in three million years will give evidence, important evidence of how we were, you know, changing from say, a meat consciousness to an expanded or shrunk digital consciousness, right? And these are things that we take for granted preserving them.