The Role of Retro Magazines

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But on this week's show, the new Commodore flip phone gets a price drop. A legendary FPS lands on the Atari Lynx, and we celebrate the C sixty four with Anton Nick Corfield The Retro Hour podcast is brought to you every week with our sponsor and our good friends at Bitmad Books. Now of course, World Cup fever well underway now. and have you seen that incredible volume? A tale of two halves. Now this is a massive six hundred sixteen page hard back book covering the complete evolution of football video games wr The Gaming historian and good friend of the podcast Richard Moss features expert analysis of more than four hundred classic titles including the early Pixel retro cllassics to legendary games, the kickoff series, Sensible soccer, FIFA, Pro evolution, soccer. they're all in there. You can order your copy right now and check out the rest of their retro gaming collection at bitmapBooks. com And with our friends at PCBY now, I'm sure you know all about PCBY. Big supporters of the retro community. and if you're working on a retro project over the summer, they offer fully featured custom PCB prototyping with low cost, fast turnaround quality boards and they also do services like three D printing and injection molding and check out the amazing shared project section for some great ideas. Get an instant quote right now PCBway. com Welcome to the Retro Hour podcast episode number five hundred thirty eight, yourour weekly dose of retro gaming and technology newews with me, Dan Wood Maybe you rob the Upps N Joe Fs And welcome to the podcast. Every Friday of course, brings you up to speed on all the big happenings in the world of retro gaming and technology. We're not afraid to get a bit geeky on this show. First off of the podcast, when we have a bit of a chat about what's been making the news headlines from over the last week, and we also welcome on people from the community, industry veterans as well for an interview on the podcast every week And this week we're going to be celebrating the legendary Commodore sixty four Yeah, a huge system where I think it's the best selling desktop computer ever. and Yeah, you know, the C sixty four is had a really big impact recently There's the C sixty four mini. you know, there's the C sixty four Ultimate as well from Commodore, which we're going to be on my desk next to me, ye. Yeah, talking about some Commodore stuff in a minute. but the scene' really kind of huge and been revived and we've got the guys from bedrooms to billions on the podcast who we've not had on the podcast for years, have we? twenty twenty two. Last time we had Aony Corfield on the show, which is nuts. I mean, we also had to catch up with them when they've got a big new project on the go and this one looks really good. I mean, we spoke to them when they did the the Rubber Ked wonder. which is a film all about the Zedic Spectrum, of course. Yeah. We had them one about four years ago when they announced a new film all about the Amiga five hundred. They had one about the PlayStation, of course, Benjam Sibil's Amiga years, the original as well, there some great movies. Basically, if you want a really well produced documentary that is really in depth, because I mean Their documentaries are not short, are they good They're not short, but they're very high quality. I remember twenty fourteen when from bedrooms to billions came out. and it was such a huge impact actually, because yeah been that many exploring the British story and that kind of side of gaming. and this was huge also when the Rubber keed Wonder came out as well I saw they did a big Pmio and they had a lot of people there. I think Charlie Broooker was there and you know, it's it's it's quite a big thing. They celebrate culture really well with those movies. and I think a celebration of the C sixty four is much needed. It's a very obvious one to me And interestingly, not only does this kind of go into the they just started working on this, It's running on kickstarters for right now. So if you're want to back it, you've got until the twentieth of July. So obvious it's at the early planning stages, but this is a documentary called Commodore sixty four The Birth of a Cultural Icon. So we talked to and they're basically about their plans for the film. A lot of Commodore sixty four nostalgia in there as well It's interesting we've known them for over a decade now. I hadd no idea that Aunt's dad actually worked for Commodore. in the day Yeah, he worked on that music maker software, which was that little keyboard that you actually stuck on top of it and we got some interesting stuff. you found out about a Commodore sixty four rap as well. play I've got play a bit of this for Joe. So is around this, Joe. This is Commodore sixty four rap It was made on a C sixty four back in nineteen eighty five. He m Y Pad. Y Pmador conate I'll send you copy you and put it on your phone.t It'sot not too bad actually. Howpect it's be a lot worse than that. I'll send you an interview a bit of Grandmaster flash maybe in there. Yeah Yeah. You've got to droped one in one of your DJ sets, you know C. There's a challenge for you, Ravi.e next one, you do it you're a meager event, you got coming up. You gott to play that now, I think and you set on that night But yeah the Commodore wp, which now I consider myself a big Commodore fan idea that existed until today. So we found out the background on that as well. It's interesting because An is's a C sixty four kid wasn't he back in the day. But Nicola was a spectrum kid it's interesting here and there I mean, there's obviously a little bit of rivalry that goes on in the interview, but yeah it's a really interesting chat. talalking about some of the games that push the limits as well of course the c the music Yeah. Yeah, one hundred percent. And also the story of really, you know, are they going to be covering that angle of how many kids became creators Commod sixty four it was not one of the first affordable machines where kids can make their own graphics and music and stuff like that as well. So yeah, I mean, they're always great to chat to on the podcast as well. So I'm going to be talking to Anon Nick Corulfield all about their upcoming new movie Commodore sixty four, the birth of a cultural icon. whichich again back on Kickstarter right now. If youve got the audio podcast on, that'll be coming up in part two. If you're watching on YouTube, you'll get that as a separate video Early next week Of course, first bit of the podcast, we talk about the news. And while we're on the subject of Commodorevy We did have a few people last week saying how come we haven't talked about the Commodore phone Now just to put this out there. I was went holiday last week. you had a trip over to Finland, didn't you? So We did record a little bit early before the we were away. It's not not a conspiracy we haven't talked about the phone because we're going to do a lot of talking about it now, which is interesting because we actually did predictions of what it was going to be. I think Joe was saying it was going to be an OS Yeah Dan was saying it's going to be a phone, which is quite a good itold I had some kind of egg timer device, but interestingly it is a phone with an OS that does certain things. So probably there's a timer on there as well Rbby. We're probably all right. Yeah we're all right. three of us are right time. Yeah. Yeah. so I mean, this news has been absolutely everywhere over the last few weeks And we're get into kind of there's been more news on it this week whichich we'll get into in a second, but I mean I'm sure most people know by now. This is New Commodore, the reviveed Commodore compomany who brought us the Commodore sixty Fot Ultimate last year. Of course Christian Simpson, Peri Fractic from R of Recipes on YouTube, who now owns the Commodore brand. They announced a fliip ph couple of weeks ago, that's kind of the big announcement we did said in the podcast there is some Commodore news coming up and that turned out to be the announcement. which I just want to say the manner that it was done in everyone was expecting a new machine or an amiga or some kind of continuation. and then It felt massively hyped to me for for what they announced and I think there was a bit of the shock factor within there as well. but yeah also they're trying to introduce a new product within a new range, a new kind of area that you mentioned, a modern product that was was needed I think as well, anyone that was paying attention would have known that it wasn't an amiger But he did put out, you know, he actually did a trip to Italy where he met up with Mike Batalana from Klin So did a whole blog about that saying, you know, this is not going to be the Amiga coming up. He did mention it was going to be a modern product, not a retro product So that's what kind of led me to think it must be some kind of phone But this is it's basically It's not quite a dumb phone but it's not quite smell funone either is it? It kind of fall somewhere the middle And so Yeah, for Well, I'd like to see Joe's view on this as well in a minute because This is something that's not really C sixty four niche, it's quite modern. but the features it has is it's I would say it's a capped smartphone. It's a restricted smartphone. Um It's got browser blocking, blocks a browser. DNS blocks social media on on a DNS level. You can use Message on it and certain stuff through third party apps. you can use Android ones and it supports telegram on WhatsApp. So it's got that real restriction on social media Yeah, which is an interesting approach. I mean, Commodore not only are they doing the retro nostalgia thing. But when I got my Commodore sixty four Ultimate last Christmas It was firmly planted on the books that they were kind of focusing the company on being also a digital detox brand, which at the time I thought was a bit weird for, you know, a computer company, but I kind of see where it's coming from. It's basically anti social media, anti doom scrolling. It's kind of technology that you can get close to and maybe destruction free will be good way putting it, which is kind of what he's He's designed this phone around now. I will say I did watch the u the announcement the morning before I went on holiday, a really short sixty second C commercial is essentially It didn't show the actual phone on it, did theyough? They just It was three D renders, basically all yeah, kind of mockups from the looks of it and But yeah, to put it mildly In the retro community I think it's fair say it hasn' had a very good reaction Most of the comments are being pretty overwhelmingly negative But maybe that's not the market this is aimed at What do you make of it, Jo Um Right I don't want to speak I always try to make a point of not being negative on the show, like too negative. And that's not to say like I'm going to be super negative or think super negatively of this. I just Usually very on the fence person and I just I don't know, I don't G who it's aimed at like. It's kind of like They want to lean into the nostalgia of the brand Commodore But then also I know they're very aware of not just slapping the Commodore logo on everything like they did back in the day Like they didn't want to be like, hereere's your Commodore pants. which is one fun He mformed. Yeah. Yeah. one thing you mentioned when they took over the brand that they didn't want to do that. It' so by Commodore Blling Ball, I just say. So first things first, I like H a look of the clear blue S through one V's very wide UK in it It reminds me of like, why' K, but it reminds me of like the third party super Nintendo and say Megarive controllers you'd get made out of the clear plastic with like bright, colorful buttons on it. So I like the look of it And I the iMac You know Yeah like Yeah And I understand the need for it, the want for it, people who want to get off They want that digital detox I just This is where the negative comes in. I don't want to sound like I'm passionate. The price point for me was like That was like unbelievable. Like I was like Yeah, what was it? five hundred dollars Yeah, originally. Yeah, originally. And I was just like, I can't Fathom get my head r that like and and I get they've they've they've 've done a bit of not a U turn, but they've, you know, they've knocked a hundred dollars off and they've said, we hear you And then you've also explained it's because it's custom OS on there, which is where the bulk of the cost has come from Well Well, I can go more into the detail of the OS as well and what kind of rivals are out there because I'm very into the DM phone world. I love different phones and stuff. They do comparisons to the light phone. now the light phone is like a crafted object. It has like apps on there, but they're all custom made for it and it's designed to be a one that doesn't tempt you at all. That's the difference. This one I feel is 've got functions, but they've been limited with So it's kind of capped where some are designed just literally as complete Tempting things. You're paying for the limitation, you're paying for restriction which is interesting, but So there's one that came out called the Barbie phone, right? And the Barbie phone came out It actually had no social media as one of its big selling points and that was forty quid Of course you get a mirror on it and it starts up and it says, Hey Barbie and really simple. Well only rings Ibie go by Aqua. But the price point The price point was about forty fortyid. forty quid. Yeah Cat as well, you know, cat the ones that u do all that like trainers and trucks and stuff like that They've got one which is rugged and it's designed for like people on oil rigs and stuff. And that's a really cool one in the Dom phone world. I think The selfish are us think of it's really interesting because that's a custom OS build. and the idea of sailfish is that it's OS that can work on other models that they haveve had it on the Sony experperience. There's ports for it for The SXia Mi O One plus Samsung Motoroller. They're kind of unofficial ones, but this is a closed source port of silfish or ass that's just being customly Done for thisvice That spokes on privacy, isn't it? Re? heavily goes into the privacy angle kindind of you can still side loan. Android apps onto there. Yeahah, but you can also get these privacy restricted things for your iPhone you can get ones that stop you using apps on your iPhone. you can go into black and white and you can customize and restrict that. So Um Yeah, you kind of And for that price point, I kind of think No, not really. but also there's another thing which is interesting. They've got a Dck on board which is for high fidelity audio, which You know what, weirdly, a lot of the audio file community have been really interested in this.' see if I find the video, I'll link it in the show notes. There's an audio file guy who's talking about this phone and he said you will not get a phone under one thousand dollars with a DAC that good in it I know a lot of people that are using external DCs on phones and devices really good high quality high fidelity audio and I think if maybe if they've gone down that route of promotion more and made a big deal. I don't know what the quality of the duck's like, but That when I saw that, I went, o, okay, you know that that interests me a bit. Well It does have that really high quality DC two of them in there to the DC chips, they call them audio file grade music chips Also it's got a front facing camera and a forty eight megapixel stony rear camera with a flash and auto fous on there as well. It does apparently come with some Commodore sixty four games and a Sid music player And a built an FM radio quphodic ring tones isn it? Yeahah, pretty much. Like I said there is Sid ring tones on it as well, which is you know, kind of quirky. Built an FM radio, which would have been nice to see a dab radio in there, I think, you know, DAB is kind of what everyone uses there. The headphones are also that they have in all the pictures. you have to buy them separately as well fif just standard. plug ons. They they've got a common on logo on the bat, they do look quite cute. Oh. Um, But yeah, I mean, so speaking personally I wouldn't say that I have bad enough social media addiction to need this? I mean, you know, are use social media for work U but I don't ever find myself kind of u you know, browsing at the expense of anything else in my life. Im not sitting there scrolling Instagam on Tikok thinking I haven' done my work today But I get that there are people with addicted personalities who You know, we're talking about this on the hangout the other day, weren't we, Joe Yeah, but you know, one of our community members Bryice, he was saying that, you know, for for someone who does have an addicted personality, this is actually something that could be really useful P it kind of, you know, it doesn't allow you to do that. You mentioned Ravbi that it does have thoses caps in there. So actually it is blocked at DNS level. So that means you can't physically even see of designed to remove the temptation It's designed to totally restrict it and I think that's a bit different. To me it seems like I don't know, I don't want to compare it to this, but if you're a drug addict and it's that's just designed to really restrict that that flow of that drug, you know, it's where other ones are have e ink and they have stuff like that that's designed to like kind of We knew off we knew off it, but not be so reliant. This one's very like even the touch screen features removed from it which is to designed to stop that Doom scrolling. so I think it's work in certain ass apparently. Yeah, there are certain if you put Android apppps on another touch screen will work Yeah even the browser' restricted, which I think is there's no browser on it Yeah, you can launch web apps on there like make a page an app on there, but yeah, that's that's quite extreme. you know, removing the browser. Which to me was a step too far, I think, the fact that it doesn't have email or a web browser at all I think yeah, fair enough, I'm not bothered if you know, TikTok iss not on there or Facebook or whatever I can take or leave them, but not having access to my email twenty twenty six. Yeah. And I just I'll just say one thing that is kind of the conspiracy theory thest in me, which is that Commodore, the other Commodore companies have released phones Italian company. Taly and I'm just wondering if this is a legal thing just just to get into that phone market for something that may be going on behind the scenes. You never know a Commodore anyway, that's just my conspiracy corner I will say, you know, having watched you know Christian's videos for many years, he mentioned that he used a flip phone years ago. He kind of moved over to that. So it just kind of seemed like it's always been a bit of a personal mission to him I think that The reaction I've seen though, is because I'm in the retro community. and a lot of them were disappointed because they wanted basically a a new Commodore computer, but looking at the wider press because this has actually had a lot of coverage on television. It's been in like you know, newspapers, like mainstream kind of media. The Verge said it's an answer to a very twenty twenty six problem. MSN said it's one of the most interesting phones of the year. From my personal perspective, my friend I went to university with Wh who isn't into retro in the slightest. me a link to this when I was holiday guys, have youve seen this, because I'm actually really tempted Be he wanted to get away from social media till he saw the price. then he went, Oh, that's too steep for me But he was interested in it, which I thought was quite curious. S someone that's not in retrospace at all actually looked at this and thought h That can be answer to my problems and Now we'll say only one of those has actually bought the phone so far. It's me. I did buy it this morning. I'm perfectly happy with my iPhone. I doubt this will be. A replacement for iPhone, I bought it really because I'm curious Becauseuse when this was announced, a lot of people assumed it would be basically a cheap kind of Chinese rebrandedip phone, which it doesn't appear to be because people have been looking for kind of what it's based on. Looks like it is something that's custom made. And I want to kind of get a feel for it. and I want to make you. Maybe if they'd launched it without renders and they'd actually held one up. this is it. you know, that that that that might have helped a bit. um, But interestingly, like we said, with the story, they've dropped the price of it, which is a big thing, which kind of shows how I don't know how little confidence there is in a product just because Poppping one hundred quQid off a product on launch is quite an extreme thing for me to see that and this was a couple of days after they defended the price point of it as well. so Yeah, that that I find veryy interesting and why it's still in the news That is interesting. I mean, they kind of put it out there like, you know, we heard you that it's too expensive. So We've knocked a hundred dollars off the price Um, When I bought mine this morning it's all in dollars on the website but by say I bought the phone, the Starlight edition and some headphones I think it worked out about three hundred and seventy ish dollars Of course you got the blingy one. Yeah, well, I mean, I've got to start likele sixty four ultimate next to me. Yeah. Will it shine in a when it rains? Yeah, apparently it does when you get a text it kind of, yeah, it glows U But yes, I mean, I can get my receipt here. Yeah. sorry, it worked out. It is a total. So it's three hundred and ninety nine dollars the phone And then fifty dollars for the The inA monitors with the mics it worked out with, you know, tax and everything, four hundred and seventy eight dollars eighty I paid for it. So You know, it is still quite steate, but I think I'm going to do YouTube video on it, but also Can you imagine what I'm going look like, you know, bringing that out at like a retro gaming event? That's going to be a talking point, isn't it? I think it's cool thing to w. Everybody's gonna crowd around me when I this out. I when I got the first iPhone in two thousand seven before it came out. You can b meud you me. Can you ring me? Can you ring me I can phone out can get yeah, like commando or something playing on. You can balance it on your Aari VTS Yeah and vibrating. So yeah, I think we spent long enough on that story, but yeah, people were asking why we didn't cover it. but it is a story that I think we'll be watching with interest and I do look forward receiving m? I'm kind of quite excited to see what it feels like and give it a bit of a workout. So obviously I'll give it a review on the show as and when it lands. So those has been plenty of other news stories to get our teeth into this week as well including some SEgA news Wan I buy sonic one and two again? How many times have you bought that in the past j? I've bought it way too many times. This is a is another one Let's get some backlash like not too dissimilar to the Commodore phone. so in a way. So this is So it's the thirty fifth anniversary of Sonic was actually it was actually last week I think it was the twenty third or twenty second of June and as part of the celebrations, obviously SeGa have been doing a lot of different products but they have officially through another company. so it is through do I am a bit They are rereleasing Sonic the Hedgehuog one and two officially on Sega Mga drive slash Genesis S. On paper, very, very cool. Um, they're coming on on You know, original cartridges which will play on the Genesis. I don't know if they will play on a U Pow Mega dririve, there's been no discussion of that, but they are Genesis cartridges U and they're separate cartrides of separate purchases they look cool. So Sonic one, it comes in like a see through blue cartridge with the clamshell bocks Sonic two comes in an orange cartridge clamp cell shell box and the boxes are in those colours as well. So the Sonic one box is like a nice blue in Sonic two is a nice orange And, you know, they're saying they're completely compatible with Pch Genesis, translucent to tail the cartridge shells You know, full of nostalgia Also, you get a retro pack full of surprises. I imagine could be stickers, maybe badges or something or an animal. Do they light up when you plug them in So this is the it's a good question. So it says that so it comes with a manual and everything and in the pictures it looks like they light up Like they've got like the glowing eye Yeah Yeah. but then it says onene in eight of the cartridges are infused with chaos emerald energy And they've not explained what that is. So I'm assuming one in eight of them glow. That's my. prediction of what that means. You know it could be It could just be like, you know the plastic is kind of that, you know, yellowy green that kind of glows in the dark when you're a kid, you got Yeah. That's what I think it is as well. But one in eight of them will be that like luminous blue or a luminous orange U So I think it's pretty cool you know, and it's cool that Sega have done this and you know, the manuals Every the product looks very nice. The reason people are complaining is It's a hundred dollars per game So hundred dollars for Sonic one hundred dollars for Sonic two Um Now this company have done this a few times before. I think they did a megaan cartridge they did an Aladdin cartridge I think we covered it when the Aladdin onene came out Now Mega Mananss are different. That's a very, very expensive Sega game Sonic. You can pick it up for like ten quid You know, f. doesn't everyone own it already Everybody already owns it, you know, G it, it's nostalgia It's a celebration of thirty five years of Sonic. It's a milestone It's cool to having your collection on the shelf put a hundred dollars for that for a game the selling point of it It's sort of like you can play it on original hardware But alsoso look at it, it's cool. you know, it shines, it's got this nice And it's the same game, isn't it There's extras added. Yeah. Yeah, there's no it's just Sonic one and Sonic two And I can't help but think For that price point I would have preferred to have seen like Sonic one two and three and knuckles on one cartridge or like a tray where you get the cartridges is in it you know, for a hundred dollars, I'd expect more because For a hundred dollars or a hundred pounds, I can jump on eBay And I'm fairly certain I could find Mbe, maybe all of the Sonic Megarive games for under a hundred pounds If I if, you know, including the Sonic three D as well or five of them. So I think they've Personally, I think it's cool, but I just think it's far too expensive once again Same with the Commodore phone. It's cool, It's very expensive for what it is. At least with the Commodore phone, that's not something that came out thirty five years ago and millions of people already have it Whereas with this maybe it is. Maybe. But with this, if you're any sort of like retro gamer who collects physical retetro games, you know you don't just emulate it and stuff. Chances are you have Sonic one and two in your collection or you can just go get it for a tenner You know, those two particular very common You know, Sonic Free and Sonic and knnuckles there a little bit little bit more expensive than like thirty four equid, I think U I don't know about American prices, but from the comments I'm seeing time extension and retro Dodo. I think they're all similar kind of prices in the UK, you know at ten dollars a Sonic one or two Um, It just feels a bit. I hate to say it nostalgia bait Yeah you know, maybe somebody who doesn't realize or somebody's partner who wants to get them it doesn't realize that you could probably buy a mega dririve and Sonic one for that price. I think it's collectors that are going to buy it. This is they talk about it works on the original hardware I bet most people that buy this will never even open it. We'll just put it on the shelf next door do the kind ofsych parapherannalia. it'll yeah just be part of that. Yeah. said if you want a could it in theonic cabinet or the Sonic shelf. Oh yeah. I mean which, you know, it's a big market. donon't get me wrong. That'll be which' true Yeah So just yeah, it expensive for what it is again Yeah. Which a lot of that stuff is, isn't it if you want the collectable stuff. And it is limited to a maximum of two per customer, apparently. so it looks like there won't be that many of these out there but yeah, if you're a Sonic fan and you want something cool on your shelf, you can preorder that right now like I said for n ninety ninell, ninet nine dollars. So I'll link that in the show notes Now, um, Some some ammiga newews Ravby this looks pretty cool to me. Do don't know what you think of this? now? I was always a big fan of racing games on the Amiga. I think you I got to say my favorite is a Lotus turbo challenge two In my number three as well, when you play that on an ammiga twelve hundred, on a five hundred, it was a little bit laggy N three Yeah, but with the two player Yeah. even on one player I remember three being a bit laggy. I think when you had like the the future zone. area that you know we went over the the turbo boost bits and I think there was kind of like that that rex system in there as well. We have that landscape modifications and stuff that was a bit too taxing for an Amiga five hundred, I think. So two was kind of the perfect point though. and I kind of love those kind of, you know two D races Awesome quite like Nigel Mancell. that was a pretty good game on the Amiga as well. And obviously we had Sean Southern on the podcast many years ago Andrew Morris talking about the making of Lotus Turbo Challenge. Well this is a game they're calling what looks like it could be a worthy homage to the Lotus Turbo Challenge series. It's a game that's currently in development by a German developer called a SGo I would you pronounce his name. This is called No Turbo challenge. Now at the moment, this is currently an alpha, but we can get a little look at the engine in this u ittle three minute YouTube demo that he's put up. but actually I think this looks pretty smooth Yeah, it looks good. aiming for an zero thirty. u to get like fifty frames per second. they're doing it on on the vampire in their turtle mode at the moment. So that's kind of the equivalent of and they're probably using that as development and then going to pump it out to the the standard amigas and ones with a bit of acceleration, which to be honest is quite cheap to get nowadays with like pi storm and stuff like that. Yeah. It looks cool. yeah. I love the lootus games. I like that there's a level editor in there Um That That's totally what you need with that. but also networking, which I'm really interested to see how that's going to work. I don't know. Serial network, the old one O because you know, Lotus supported that or TCPIP, who knows? I think this is TCPIP networking ' hard to do ra for Aica games, you know. Yeah, definitely. So I mean that would suggest to me it might just be kind of land gaming or it might be Hey I'm hoping I'll be play over the intern Um which you know sounds like it will be doable if it's TCBIP. But yeah, you mentioned then that they're aiming this for a sixty thousand eight hundred thirty or fifty megahertz, which will give you fifty FPS. It is an AGA game. So it's going to need an a meigga twelve hundred Well thousand city thirty two or, you know and A five hundred, that kind of thing will work as well the mini, not the original machine. But some people had been saying, well, you know The original Lotus games werean a very smooth FPS on a on a seven megahertz sixty eight K. So why is this So demanding, but the new mention there is there's going to be streaming audio on this as well. Yeah. Yeah. stam the I of the internet. you and yeah yeah hundred percent We'll see, we'll see it's in an alpha version at the moment. so it's looking all right. We'll see how it develops and You know, sometimes these developments take absolutely years to kind of perfect it and stuff. But once the project gets light, hopefully more people get involved and Hel it move forward I think it looks beautiful as well that the graphics definitely look I look kind of smoother I'd say than the lootus games, less blocky on the cars and the even like the the track and the sky and stuff. Some of it looks like placeholders. There's some just like blank kind of gradients isn't the? But then like the u Nual sky areas. all of the change from like, you know, day to night and stuff as well Looks really nice. So I'm excited about this because yeah I've kind of be wanted a really good kind of racing game in the vein of Lotus again for the Amiga So definitely want to keep an eye. We'll be updating you as we hear more on that No Turbo challenge O the ammiga And it might be time to Get the Atari linkx stuckg out, Joe. This is quite cool A hell of an impressive port that describing this of one of the most famous FPS games ever has now landed on the links or at least the first three levels Yeah, this is interesting. I actually thought Wolfenstein three D had already come out on the links But apparently it never did. so There was meant it was meant to come out So Aari were with in discussions with its software Um and Basically when it came to like contract negotiations from what I understand John Karmack was set to actually work on the port kind of fell apart for whatever reason we obviously did get an Atari version on the Jaguar Yeah later by John Karmack, but this was meant to be nineteen ninety two, the original Lynx version so initially when I saw this story, I assumed it was the like the lost version that they made that never came out, but that's not the case this is a developer who has made this himself and it's completely based on MacIintosh version of the game which can't which came out in the mid nineties, I believe U And once again, my assumption was while reading the article was, oh, maybe it's based on the Game Boy Avanced version or something then that came out in the early two thousands, something that came out in two thousand two But no, it's based on the Macintosh version It was made by the developer is called PWit onene PWW it one Who's done this? He has done the entire game. U he has made the entire game, but he's worried about the legal implications of it. So he's just released the demo. first being the first free Shareware one. Yeah. Yeah, which was the shharewar one at the moment and he's hoping that he can reach out to The original developers and Ered to see if they're okay with him releasing y, I imagine free maybe Um And this has been done before. There was a mod In twenty thirteen, Dmo called U Lunchenstein Fedie that came out. U I've not heard of that one or seen this one But in terms of running on the links The first thing what I want to say is quite interesting is you play it in the vertical mode Yeah, so rather than holding it in the horizontal mode, you play it in the the sideways horizontal vertical mode there. And the little' a tall t s I you got the original one, isn't it? Yeah? Yeah I think that's very good for programming as well because you're limiting the width that you have to you know have for the walls and stuff like that. So it's very smart having it in that narrow on a window. Yeah. and weirdly having in that narrow window It reminds me of like the E gauage for some reason. Like I don't know why. it just does, but I think the port itself runs quite smoothly U It's very, very clearly Wolfenstein three D, but you know, kind of like an eight bit version the map is present, you know, that classic kind of like Iid map where you get the You know the lines and you can see where you are from above. U The only thing I have noticed that is some of the backgrounds. so obviously the you know, the the walls, if you will, they pop in sometometimes when you're in quite a big room, plays you know, it plays well, it plays. I don't know what the frame rate is on there It looks decent. decent framew. Thegs the dogs look mental in it though. jumping back and forth. I quite like it though. Yeah That's scary I mean, I'm talking mind's eye here doesn't look as good as the Super Nintendo porters do, for example Do doesn't look as muddy as that version Yeah if that kind of makes sense. I know this is on much lesser hardware But it's impressive, to say the least U I'm curious now I want to go look at the Macintosh version and see what that looks like because obviously it's a port of that. I'm assuming it's quite a dumbed down Yeah, the Mac version looks a lot nicer than this but it's very much more advanced hardware. I mean, you know, you be in mind I look at the Tire links had sixty four kilabytes of RAM Oviously in a bit of CPU in there as well It's really interesting to think, you know, that if that kind of abandoned John Karmac Por of Doom of Wolfenstein's really rather did land on the lynx spot then, whether Iagine that would have been quite a big system seller. Uness she needed like a, you know, a decent PC to run Wolfenstein three D when it came out. It was a bit of a kind of one of those that really you know, kind of spurred that kind of adoption of People buying PCs to play games on Yeah. So yeah, if you've been able to just go and buike cartridge, you know, It could have kind of been the The lyx is equivalent to L Tetris is like a system seller Yeah. I mean, at the time, I don't top of my head Doom wasn't on any sort of handheld and Wolfenstein The first handheld version of it, like I said, was the Gameway addvanced version So it could have been a system seller. it could have been like, oh look at this, you know, nineteen ninety two or nineteen ninety three it might have come out in You've got a free day first person shooter on Links of all consnoles Yeah definitely wasn't coming out in the game boy or the the game gear back then wasas it?. Yeah. if that was the only way to kind of play it handheld that would have Yeah, probably been to't remember what a big deal Wolfen San threey was, you know when it came out. So yeah could have changed the game, but maybe wouldt have quite the same impact thirty four years later, but I think it's very cool that you can now play it on your links. So as you said, there is a short demo that you can download right now. There is a Google drive link in his post on Blue sky. sort of check that out. lookooks really impressive. I put of Wolfenste three D to the the Tari links I think u twenty twenty six is going to be one of those years where we keep seeing these headlines that are like Well, we wouldn't have put that on our kind of a Bingo card of the Ye Would anyone expect three DO to come back from the dead So apparently it's happening Yeah What do you think of this A you guys waiting for the u U sorry, waiting for the F Do phone. Wow I Oh, fununny you should say that, Ravi I think these are going to be mobile phone games Oh If you've read the full statements and articles Let's explain what it is then first of all, so to give you a bit of context, obviously, three D O, tririp Aawkins company back in the nineties, licensed out console specifications and you know, a lot of companies could make a three DO. I remember Goldstar made one, Inabishi made their own model as well. So it's basically kind of like VHS', isn't it? you know, they put it out there. Ben it wants to license a hardware, they can make their own console. then obviously three DO as we know very expensive system, didn't do very well commercially. They were going to do a follow up system called the M two, didnn't get released properly, ended up being a coffee machine I think the M two. And then a lot of the games went onto the Playsttation under under under Fedio's brand because they' developed a load of really good stuff. that ended up going ono other systems Yeah sorry'sanonic notom M to Bji, who made the conle. I'll say before I get the comments. then three DO towards the end of their life. turned into a software publisher who make games for the Playsttation and other platforms as well went bankrupt in two thousand three And um Basically, you know, there hasn't really been much done with the brand since then. But then there is an article here on T time extension by Jackie Arwood who spotted this on Linked in a few days ago from the publisher Empire interteractive, which is also interesting because Empire interteractive were a British developer and game stududio publisher Back in the eighties and nineties who I think went bankrupt in around two thousand nine So it's interesting not only Empire Interactive back as well, but they put out a post on LinkedIn earlier this week, saying that they've now acquired the trademarks and selected intellectual property rights O the three D O company And in the near future They're aiming to reestablish threeio as an independent game company and bring back some of its legendary titles to players through carefully crafted remastered collections Yeah. so They did some more digging to see who's been posting this basically and who owns the page and who owns it U And it turns out it's a He manager who's a British Turkish manager I'm going to completely butcher his name so apologies. I want to say Isaac or Isaac. Se Scasido I think his name is Um and Time extxtension have reached out to him, and he's replied, he's emailed back basically asking what the crack is and who he is because they've looked him up and they can't find much about him online and he's saying that he's worked for some really big mobile phone companies developing mobile phone games in the past. and basically You know, he supported companies billion dollar companies, etcetera that he's worked in higher up management in the past, which is enable him to get the kind of like, You know to this position where he can buy it by Tio and empire interactive from what you understand He's listed himself as the founder of Fredio on LinkedIn whichich is interesting because obviously what Tripp Hawkins has to say about that. Yeah. So I'm assuming he means this iteration of Fedio obviously He goes on to say that basically he wants to move into console games because of You know, they don't have like the cultural impact. Csole games have like a bigger cultural impact and you know, kind of like pop culture impacting like a mobile phone game ever does. which I understand. there's only a handful of mobile phone games out there like maybe Hunry Birds Fopy rod or whatever where they were like a big thing that everybody was talking about, whereas with video games. You, they've got that longevity. So I get that. And there's that network there as well, like limited run games and you know all these Yes people you can go to Blaze Entertertainment and stuff. Yeah And apparently a lot of those people have already commented on the post saying reach out to us because of limited run games, well, the exX CEO limited run games Os Um The F DO versions of Night trarap Suers shark and Corpse Killer. and a bunch of other ones because of it it was just easier to buy them. then to license them when they did them very limited run games and likeike, you know, other people have reached out from like Astream and stuff saying, you know, reach out to us, you know, let' let's let's work together, etcetera So we'll see what happens with it, but I can't help but think with the mobile phone linked there And I get he's saying he wants to get into console games. Can't help but think what we're going to see is a load of Free DO games licensed on Android and OS, that's what I feel might happen. I could be completely wrong because he's not saying that's what's going to happen he's say He wants the longevity of console games I just can't see there being F DO coming out unless his plan is to just bunch of f videoo games and put them on switch and Xbox and Steam and Play Station, but there was quite a few of them out there already through Dive limited run And downstream, you know, you know came out the GX triple pack came out last year. stuff like that. so And And he also says in the statement that It's because a lot of these games are unaccessible now and and they're not out there, you know, for, you know, if people want to play them. I't think I mean, I'm not a big freeedio guy, but I'm just trying to think what games Well I think a lot of the big ones were stuff that they kind of published, you know in their software era. Obviously they had their might Magic games, didn't they? which they saw that to Ubisft look that up for one point three million dollars when they went bankrupt in two thousand three. They had army men which was one of their big titles as well, but that got sold to global style software OkayK take two for our four million dollars they have battle tanks as well, which Tpe two bought that one as well. So it seems like a lot of the um the franchises they owned or published back then were kind of sold off to Other companies like that high heat baseball that Microsoft bought for half a million So how much of it kind of remains under the The three D banner Yeah would be interesting. even when you think you mean you mentioned like Gx that was crystal dynamics. Yeah Need for speed was big on there as well.ee that was electronic arts Yeah, I mean, Yeah, I kind of wonder What's included in that Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see where it goes is anywhere You just don't know. but my prediction is phone games, that's my prediction Well there is one thing that time extxtension point out that apparently Simoria is the first title that the revived Empire Interactive All I'm going to be publishing which looks even the fonts and everything I imagine electronic arts are going to look at that and be like hang on It looks like a Ss game, even down to the logo. Some people are predicting that maybe He's using three DO to go up against theA which obviously both been triporksed companies would be an interesting u T turnurn to fight, wouldn't it? Yeahah Yeah It'd be even more interesting if you beat them Yeah, I could imagineagine. Well, yeah, they're not popular these days with many people, are they? So ye, A lot of people haven't been a fan of their recent business practices Yeah, imagine three DO came along and finally took them down So yeah, interesteresting seeing them back though. has going to been a big year for revivals. Obviously a claim back as well. There's been quite a lot of old video game companies coming back. So Ro making a comeback in twenty twenty six one that we're keeping an eye on So one last story for everyone else, someomebody's from Patrons News as well. You've been quite excited about this Robbie. I heard you're talking about this on the Lost Patrons hangout. The mesh tastic. This is something you're only into at the moment. This is networking using Nesh networks. Now you're going to have to explain that to me and. So this is a thing that's started to become really popular actually in the kind of radio computer hacking world as well and stuff. it's It's kind of It's like Wi Fi but on long range radio. so it's called Laura is the interface that you use. and it's an encrypted messaging system. So you can message to people. it's like a walkie talkie essentially, but it doesn't use the internet, it doesn't use An connectivity in that way, apart from long range radio. So lots of people have these little nodes that they put up, which are made mainly from these little ESP thirty two devices which are very cheap, you know, you can get them for twelve quQid stick one on your house with a little solar charger on there and it'll run as a node. and it's kind of like a network. It can be used for It's decentralized, but it can be used for like if you're hiking And there's a few of you and you're out in a place like, you know, where there's no mobile communications or anything or there's no Internet, you can still communicate and text each other which is really cool. but This network's going to grow as people are kind of using it. But what people have been doing is they've been hooking up oldld school computers to it So we're starting to see a lot of interfaces for it. and it's quite interesting because you've connected via radio. It's a bit like Cam radio or Citizens band a new kindind of version of that. But youre connected on say the C sixty four or your TRS eighty or one of these older systems and you're able to message someone you're able to message the entire node as well, which is all the users or on it. so you can have a chat. so if you're on a comp sixty four and someone else is on my guitari, can you talk to each other then? Is it kind of? Yeah, yeah. yeah if they're connected to the mesh, they can be on their phone or whatever. And if you're connected to another device you can or talk to each other. You can also send a message privately to Dan which will be encrypted. so if I sent one to you. we could have our own like WhatsApp chat, but none of itss in the interternet. We're all just connected Using this little Um ree device over radio. Now the cool thing is a board has been developed with a custom PCB for the C sixty four And this one plugs into the back of the user port. So this is a PCB that's in a cassette style And on that PCB, you've got a little area so that connects to it. And It goes via the serial into Askie as well. So you can get text on there, but you can also send Petski so you can start sending images A couple look a bulletin board. Yeah. so this is essentially an interface for it because all you're sending is text to each other It's very slow, It's massively long range So I'm going to actually put a node on my house. And I'm quite high up where I'm based and you know a lot of people should be able to connect to that as well. And we've got other friends that have been connecting to other ones 's quite good if you're in a new area and you're saying like, where's a good pizza restaurant you'll last score the node and they'll go, Ohh yeah, I'll recommend this place. I'll recommend. It's like a local BBS almost then. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, ye that's very. each node that you to it passes on. so it's like the way that mes a mesh works. And I think we're going to see a lot more of this A lot more kind of connectivity. without using the internet and these organic networks created by at home and this is the first step of that. I think adding the Petsky graphics is really cool. I saw someone tried to send an image on it and it took them fifteen hours. So it's a very it's a very low data kind of protocol. but you won't be downloading GTA six No no or you won't be streaming video or anything on that Yeah. but it's something quite nice and cute and I think it reallys reminds me of the old days where you've got this little messaging systems and stuff and people are creating these networks themselves That sounds really cool. Yeahah I'm really interested in getting on board Yeah, ye. it sounds like everybody fun.olly you start to see it hitting hitting everything and you can even get like apps for your iPhone and stuff You can collect via Bluetooth to these little devices as well so you could have one in your bag and be messaging people and Yeah, if you're at a festival and all of you are out there drunk, you can set up a little one and go, right we'll all message on this. Yeah, when you can't get mobile signal at festivals normally. So that's a good use case. Yeah because they get overwhelmed, don't they? Yeah looks goodool I can't get data. Yeah. I'm really interested in this for the Commodore sixty four. So it's the Meshtas six sixty four ninety four dollars Do nothing's bad considering it's you know, a cartridge with software and it comes in Yeah this is a very custom one like Yeah, you could probably If you had the skills, do it for like thirty or twenty If you can flash the module and stuff yourself, but this is a very custom free D printed one as well and it's got a little like O LED display in there and you know, kind of feedback on that Every addition to bit out of stock at the moment as well. So's obviously a demand for. But yeah. so if you want to keep an eye on that though I'll link it up. It's a website called Bit Zeal. If you want to get your sixty four onto the mesh Very cool. So if you want to read more about that and all the rest of the stories you'd have to Google around every week. I put them in the show notes. head to our website retroour d. com click through from there or on your podcast app or the YouTube video description Remind me we have a patron for the podcast as well. Great Hang out over the weekend I said, you Joe, didn't I we're gonna have a better of fun when we talk about the kind of topics that we cover on the hangout. I think a quantum physics took up a good ten minutes of this week's hangout. It did Qantum physics, the Commodore phone was discussed in depth But yeah, quantum physics was on there for quite a while and time traveled as well. Yeah was on there and Bill and Ted's bogus adventure and how time travel works in that which was quite funny. But yeah, we just end up talking about anything, but I can't even remember how we went off onto quantum physics now But it was a good ten minutes of it for a while. and Dan was like, Yeah, let's move this one on now. I think it was quantum computing then it got into time was an excession chat anyway. Oh talk about quantum computing Yeah. And we were talking about arcade club and whateverbody's been up to recently. It's always just nice to catch up talking about Ravi's event. which is coming up and talking about trying to get together with some of the patrons as well for AK club obbviously we're going to see a lot of them. kick start in August which has conditioning that's the selling por pork in Yeah with the heat wave which I know was another topic. Yeah. So we do this every month, Normally last Sunday, the month we basically it's a two hour Zoom call, Google Meet. All our patrons are invited, just a bit of a chat, Ready a proper geek out. We think of it as a virtual users group. So if you'd like to join our patrons community this month, you'll get invited to the August one. looad of other perks. you get the podcast ad free every week. We're gonna to do a couple extra new stories in a second. Patrons all get every week every week on the podcast, you get two extra new stories. So we do that just for the patrons We're going be doing a new episode of our Patrons's exclusive podcast for the Gold Mmbers and abbove this month as well, called the After Hour. So loads of perks, an exclusive area for our Discord server as well. But really the main reason to our back us on Patreon is just to support the podcast. makeake sure that we can keep bringing it out for you everyingle week. so we'd glad to join our wonderful community. All the details are at the retrohour dot com Allright, thank you for checking out the news this week Vladmore for you next Friday. And next, we celebrate the Commodore sixty four with this wee's special guest, Anton Nick Corfield and next on the retro Out podcast Y're with the Retro Hour podcast and it's time to welcome on this week's very special guests and today we're going to be catching up with some good friends of the podcast. We're trying to work out how many times I've been on. I think we're definitely almost a full handful of appearances on the show becauseus you'll know them from some incredible Video game documentaries over the years, of course, the are famous from bedrooms to billions, the Amiga years, of course, as well, the PlayStation Revolution, the fantastic Rubber keed Wonder Spectrum movie. We last had the one I think four years ago talking about a new Amiga five hundred film they were working on. And right now they've actually just launched a campaign for a new movie all about The Commodore sixty four. So's talk all about that just a bit of a catchu up in general. Now we love to geek out about all things retro with them. Let's welcome on. Anthony Nicola Caulfield. How are you Hello there Lovely to see you both again. Yeah, you guys. It's nice to you on video as well for people watching on YouTube. So yeah,' I had to brush my hair for that.. G do I prp to you about an hour ago. And cloudes on Yeah Well every other interview we've ever done with these guys we've been naked, Is that what you? Yeah, I way, so yeah, all good Now we did' mention that we lost A one in twenty twenty two. and then amazingly it's been four years since we last spoke to you, but you had just announced a new film you're working on all about the Amiga five hundred, which obviously Robie and I have been huge Amiga fans. We're very excited about that. So how has it all been going, first of all It's been going really well. Obviously it's changed a lot since our initial idea of just a fifty minute short film is what it was going to be. but it just started to evolve and then we thought no, we can turn this into an actual full feature documentary here So it's coming along really well. We've got like a two hour cut at the moment It's beyond a rough cut now. it is actually much tighter. We're just completing the final part the conclusion of the movie. and we're also working with Amiga Bill who's doing some lovely B roll for us to insert into the film. We've got archivees which we're also sourcing, but It's quite nice to have some specific shots that Amiga Bills doinging for us and it looks absolutely wonderful. I going to say, you pit the right man for the job, Yeah Bill's incredible,n't? Yeah He's brilliant, really But the name Amiga in his name, you sort of It was a it was a when we were asked on with you in twenty twenty two, we actually we had a very firm vision for that project which was more like ala mentioned, like almost like an extra It was a forty five minutute to fifty minute It almost it was a bit of the amigia years we felt that didn't exist, which was what happened What actually was the story of the A five hundred Did it save Commodore And what happens to Kombola afterwards? So that's kind of what and we were going to just simply use archive leftover footage that was unused from the Amigi Years movie and we knew that we could construct it and we had all these other things like extra developer materials. So it was more of a In a way that we've got these new things now called Classic Game insights and it was kind of in a way like like that And as we were making it, we had a couple of had to change direction a couple of times. One of the key interviewees was unfortunately, no longer able to take part for various personal reasons. So we sort of had to shift the goalposts a bit. And in the end We just set upon it actually, this is a movie because we realize that the story is so vast, how did Why did the A we sort of covered in the amigias what happened with the A one thousand withith the A five hundred, did it how was it really put together and how did it save Commodore? because Commodore needed saving? At that point, they were sort of I wouldn't say sinking fast, but they needed they needed another hit And and then C of why didn't Common all move on after that into something more what happened? Why did they just go down by nineteen ninety four So we thought this would be a good opportunity. pererhaps might even be our last film on the Amiga. I don't know. But we kind of looked at it and thought this has got to be really good. It's got to be, you know, if anything better than the Amiga is And that's why it became it's taken four years And he goes like ks I think it's really interesting, you know twenty fourteen was when you released bedrooms to billions is It was a subject that people weren't really talking about that kind of Well, story behind British gaming, but also all of these other subjects like you know amigo and the spectrum and stuff. how have you seen the world change and you know, interest change in these subjects and grow over the time that you've been doing it It's massive It's yeah it's it's, u I think it's become more And I mean I don't mean this in a negative sense it's become a little bit more corporate and a little bit more professionally setet up Now I'm going to I don't get murdered for that. I'll just explain what I mean is there was a little bit more it's for many people, it's a hobby. For us it was a hobby was we were genuinely interested in the subject matter, which is why we made from bedroom civilings in the first place. And we played games in our spare time and it was It was our spare time. It was something that we wanted we really wanted to make. But I think now you've got A lot of more kickstarters, you've got a lot more companies that have been set up to service retro gaming. You've also got a situation of all the the main hardware manufacturers, Sony, Sega, they're all producing their own sort of retros, sorry I hate doing that, but you know what I mean? their own retro consoles that people can play, you know USB ports have become very important devices like that. So it's I think it it's definitely from what I hear retrogaming is just getting bigger and bigger because with every few years a new generation enters the retro field. Yeah., when we were doing from bedroom to buildillions It was It was hard to necessarily classify the PlayStation one as retro. Now it definitely is and so appered too And you sa build Xbox three hundred sixty and the PS three being retro. It wass a very hobbyist thing, wasn't it? And now there's this whole kind of industry that's Grown up, ye. Yeah. And they've grown up to service, I think, R. I think Like from our perspective, what's really nice is we look back and we think we're able to chronicle all this history that's grow going on. You know, for years to come, there'll always be these films there that people can look at and see what the industry had begun to where it is going now And I think that's the part that we really enjoy. We can kind of sit back and watch all this happening. And one of the really nice things, what we love most about I think, well I speak for myself about making these films is that nostalgia, that hit of nostalgia that gives people And you know, the world's a funny old place at the moment. and it's quite nice to go back, you know when I I mean, I'm a big spectrum fan. I love my spectrum. I into that ye. I'm sorry about that. But for me, you know, making a film that we did about the Rubber Ky Wonder was it really just took me back to my childhood. and I think that is for a lot of people. So making a film about the Commodore sixty four. I hope that that'll have the same sort of feeling for people who grew up with the Commodore sixty four. I mean, I didn't grow up the Commodore sixty four, but I'm starting to learn an awful lot about it and I love it. although I did bu. I think your Commodore six You're selling yourself a little bit short. I met Nicola when she was sixteen and I was seventeen And within six months, her mum and dad bought my entire commboda of sixty four. You know, the fifteen forty one, the whole thing, the monitor the disk drive, the cassette player. and when we got married I got it back and it's over there. So it it's been a lift. it was more expensive than the Commodore sixty four though. I bought an aming five hundred with the money. Yeah. I think we sold it for almost the equivalent of what I could buy an am I didn't get very into the Commodore sixty four in terms of the games that you had Anthony had loads and loads of games And I got really geeky. I actually cataloged them all I did a whole thing. I wr them all down. yees. I all got that we had. Yeah. I don't know why I did that. I just felt compelled to do it. And I went it was the C nineties that was the reason. Yeah. I was really into listing all the games But yeah. yeah, I did get into it. I crossed over to the C sixty four. Well lets let's get into the new film though because this is running on Kickstarter right now. documentary all about the icon at Commodore sixty four. It it's called the Commodore sixty four, The Birth of a Cultural Iicon. Pople want to back that you have just actually smashed your target this week, which is great to see and there is still a good few weeks left on it running until Monday, july twentiet, I'llviously link it in the show not so people want to click through. Why did you think it was ime for a documentary about the C sixty four then to tell us what the idea is with this But it was It's forty years old and it played a different If you think about it with the Zedx spectrum is very much a UK centric story, though as the film, that the rubber keed one that goes into the spectrum was available in many other countries as well. Just to say UK is completely incorrect But you can definitely apply a worldwide feel to the Cboda sixty four And I think that the Commoda sixty four sort of trailblazed a path right the way through it got people into programming, into gaming. and of course it was that had that worldwide footprint. But of course the other aspect of it was that it also brought in the whole music element of it as well. you know, I was very, very lucky because I apologize if I've told this story before, but my My mom and dad were gigging musicians, so they weren't, you know, we didn't have a lot of money when I was very young And it was kind of a situation where dad finally got her Proper job And it happened to be working for a company called Music Sales selling music software and it just happens to be they got a contract with Commodore. And then in their very short space of time he walks home one day with the Commoda sixty the whole thing, fifteen, the disk drive computer, tape player. no, no tape player and monitor. So it was like just this gift from the gods. And obviously I experienced that as many other Commoda sixty four fans experienced this fantastic device gave that gave you so much. And I think that in America For a start, they're sort of almost there That kind of that spectrum story is the commbula sixty four Bes a Commodore sixty four came in where the the Atari eight hundred didn't quite go And a lot of those early commommon of sixty four games were really in America, at least, were Aaria hundred conversions But it gave it sort of brought programming into the homes in America in a sort of mainstream way. And for a computer like that to be so popular worldwide, Commodor did an amazing job making it a mainstream computer So it kind of broke some sort of what necessary world records, though it is attributed as obviously selling such a large number of units. When we get when you're able to talk about anything forty years later And it still has a very, very active fan base and appreciation about it and people are always talking about it and the scene and all the other aspects that come with it. you kind of need to explore why whyy is it left such an impact? Because Why is whyy is it that computer Why was that so much more popular than Ban the Aari eight hundred or some of the other home computers that around the. I don't know it's sinny to compare it but I've got a dragon sitting behind me. but what was it about the sixty four? I think we always wanted to cover the Commodore sixty four. And I think a lot of it roots back to from bedroom to buildillions. when we were making that film There were certain areas we went off in and then we thought, o, we just can't spend enough time on this because the film was quite long anyway. And you know that's what happened with the spectrum. We thought we can only go to a certain point with that and then we have to go back into the main narrative of the film. And that was the same with the Commodle sixty four part of the film where we thought, you know, we really could make a standalone film just about the Commodore sixty four. And it's taken us a while to get to this. point but that was it's always been in our thinking that we wanted to do a film just about the Commodore sixty four And I think like the spectrum that's got that British niche, but you have the really wide appeal of the C sixty four. The fact that you know you've got two huge C sixty four recreations out there at the moment. peopleople are creating games. Are you seeing like interest from new users as well as old ones or people just discovering the system? If that's the case, they haven't made it known to us yet. I mean, we are only We are we launched we did a sort of preview a pre launch, which we'd never really done before in January for the Comma sixty four project Kickstarter. and it sort of it sort of had a huge surge and then was fairly slow after that for a little while. and we were sort of looking at th is there a Is is there a you know, is there as much want for such a movie or anything else. But then obviously the sixty four Ultimates come out and the sort of the Cbodore rebirth that's happened Um, and, you know I'm not going to, you know there's people want certain things of that brand and what they do and everything else. But the point is people are talking about it again. It's become it's become relevant and the fact that people are wanting Commbodore sixty four products or wanting different Commbodore sixty four products, they're still talking about Commodore and the Commodore sixty four. It'd be nice to think that there's maybe new people coming into to know experience the Commodore sixty four. and hopefully there's a little bit of a sideidhoot of that is that they're coming in and watching our movie would be good. but yes It's hard to know whether, you know, certain people that are backacking us are new to the Commodore sixty four I'd like Maybe when it's out there, there'll be increased interest as well because ye they've sold a lot of machines these companies have put them out there. And I think anything with any cate with any with any device has potential. It still is like any other tool. It comes down to the user what they do with it. I mean even the games that we'll cover in the film, you know impossible Mission, for example, Denis Caswell, I'm sure you probably know was an an Aari twenty six hundred programmer And um and he he um You know, it was the only game he really ever wrote on the Combod of sixty four. So he kind of mastered it just to make that game work and make it work in a single load. I mean, it's actually it's a technical marvel impulsle mission, actually When you really that gu? Yeah that guy. Yeah well a huge part of it as well as the music and you know the music on the C sixty four always really stood out. But I know and you've got a personal connection with your dad working for Commodore and a music maker Right That's right was what are the bits of software? That's absolutely right. Yeah,'ve got I've got all of them actually on the shelf the shelf behind me because he worked in music sales and then he worked on he worked on the music maker products with though he always a keyboard like you overlaid on the Commodore sixty four, wasn't it could play music ye. got I've got to cut out of my shorts Yeah you go. You get, um So ye to describe it, yeah it basically fits over the compose ofs keyboard, doesn't it? Yeah likely the Yeah, it's a bige clip that's plastic unit that sits perfectly on top of the Codore sixty four and obviously allows you to play it in theory, like a keyboard because The sixty four in really essentially is a synthesizer. Yeah. The Sid chip is is that an idea? It is a synthesizer. in the in the way it works. So of they were The whole point of that music maker software was to try and promote the aspects of the SIid chip and that the Cbod of sixty four was capable of sampling and and obviously playing rudimentary music. But the funny way they looked at it in a slightly different way to to where the musicians that were creating SIidD themes like Rob Hubbard and stuff wasn't using the music maker software. He was writing his own drivers and and working out his own techniques to apply. But as that's where it goes back to earlier Any engineer puts a tool in people's hands, it's down to those people, those talented people, how they take that tool and turn it into something that they could use But yeah, Dad worked for work for worked on that particular project and also was was the one demoing it at the PCW show in what would have been eighty four and eighty five So there's photographs of him as I'll probably put it in the film actually. There's a photograph of him with Paul Lie Yates demoing up before and showing her because she was a guest at the show probably opening. I don't know what capacity she was there. But there's a photograph of him holding a microphone and sort of pointing at the sixty one explaining how this software works that was on the Commodore stand. And I always remember opening Zap one day an opening and they were covering the PCW and they had the Commodore stand from a long shot, probably taken from the stairs at Lenpe. remember that big staircase And there was my dad. you can see my dad in the shop just sort of doing his salesman thing, sort of pointing or doing something. So it was it was quite a big thing for me to sort of get this Cbod of sixty four dad working for them sort of feeling like you were a part of that. but then you got head hunted and ended up working for Ai and then worked on a project called the S nine hundred sample, which can't rev revolutionizeed music. No again, not because of dad, but He was he was he was part of that that whole NPC sixty S nine hundred S nine fifty S one thousand revolution that sort of took over music in the later eighties. But he He got his first experiences of any form of sampling or any form of sort of music like that through his work with Commodore I got to learn something as well about the personal computer shows when I was doing my research. I came across something that apparently was demoed there by music sales for the Commodore rap Oh my go which whichich I'm going to play a little bit of now for people who haven't I I consider myself a big Commodore fan. I've never heard this till today Codore I'm Im aon. It's a bit like Grandasterlash or something. I'mite impressed. What's the story with that then Well, my dad could tell that story a lot better, but I was there when they recorded it. they were it was for the PCW show So what they wanted to do, the plan was to give out free cassette tapes And they were going to give out C fifteen s, if you remember those, the really short ones. think theory, the theory was that if we give out free tapes The kids are going take them because they can think I can use these tapes for other purposes to lay it. But the point was was the the music was on there to just promote Combod of sixty four and its musical capabilities And that dad will know the name of the studio, but I remember being quite cheesed off coming home from school one night and dad said, oh, we' got to go out because my momum was at college at that she was a mature student. so she was at uni So Dad said you' to come my brother to get in the car and drive somewhere to somewhere in London to a recording studio where they recorded that So we were there toil like eleven o'clock at night. And always remain it genuinely was done through a commba sixty four. That's the thing I actually remember Rick Cardialli, the main composer of that track, literally structuring and doing the whole thing through a commommoda sixty four But the thing is my I thought about it many years later is that You needed photographs of that that no what, you know, it was done through a six but we've only got their word that it was done. but I was there. I was a witness to that to that track M go, I can't believe you dug that one up. but ye I can't He was playing that constantly the other day. I like did my brother discovered it. We used to have it on cassette tape, you see. We had it and we'd lost them long ago, but they were Commodore branded as well. If anyone's got one But they were only created for the eighty So the eighty four, that worked for them for about eighteen months. It was either the eighty four or the eighty five. I'm going go eighty five PDW show and they were handed out from the Commodore stand And yeah, wow, that's a real blast for the bast But yeah, remember it was all done on the Comma sixty four that whole track I love to sort of track down. Well'll probably I don't know. I don't know if I'll be shot if I put that music at the end of the film, but say that tr in the film. you could do your own rap. Yeah really made.ave you have you heard the somebody put up I did actually put this up on Facebook recently but somebody put the idore my sixty four All four advert jingles up onto YouTube recently and they're just complete rip offffs of the Beatles. One is onene is Lady Madonna. And the other one just sounds like when I'm sixty four Yeah P out of Yeah. They got away with quite a lot back then, didn't they? Yeah It's good. Yeah. Wellow, I can't believe you dug that up but yeah I've got great memories of that and I have really good memories of when Dad was with Commodore. He knew Garl Wellington as well that we interviewed who's in sadly's passed away now, but she's she's going to be in the A five hundred movie she is in the A five hundred movie He said it was great. Right Yeah. Yeah. That's great to hear. Well we mentioned like you know, kind of back in the day then. so nickly you're obviously on the spectrum side of the fence. I mean, you know, thinking from that era then, what did the Commodore sixty four kind of look like to you? What impressions did you have like, you know, back in the eighties of the end of the sixty four Yeah You know what? I don't think I really that much about the Commodore sixty four back then I was so obsessed with my spectrum. and I don't really think a lot of my friends had computers So really, I didn't experience, I guess that kind of I didn't like swap cassettes or anything like that. I did yeah. a lot of my friends weren't really into computers at the time. Yeah I think you might have experienced more of that than me. Yeah I mean because it was my brotherers, the spectrum My mum and dad got it for me and my brother. and my brother was a little bit old was a bit older than me. And so he used to buy everything that was for this computer. And so yeah, it wass just really something me and my brother experience. yeah. I think the playlground wasars, as they affectionately know, I experience was that I think it was probably one in five kids had a com of six four, mayaybe it was one in seven So there was only a few of us and everyone else had the z spectrum. So I think all I remember is just being teased, blocky graphics, blocky graphics, blocky graphics And you kind of I don't know. I remember there' not being a lot back the other way because it's kind of like if you're a sixty four owner It was more expensive machine than the spectrum, not horrifically, but it did come down It did come down in price, but there was less people to swap games with and that. But I do remember that were getting more sort of viteral, maybe the sort of younger brother syyndrome, you know, sort of because there were more spectrum fans. they were sort of a little bit more sort of heated towards the sixty four. Butang. Yeah. Yeah, I just thought that the sixty four just Because of the music, everything, I just felt it was a better system Now no again, any spectrum fans listening and thinking, you releaseed the film on the spectrum at D Beat. But I actually really like the spectrum because all my close friends had a spectrum. So I didn't I don't really I donon't really think that I remember thinking I was sl of rubbish the spectrum or being in any way funny about it. It was a I do remember going in I remember that but wasas it boot? They had all the computers downstairs in Ilford And I remember going down there and I remember seeing a Commodore sixty four set up. there was a few different computers. I used to love just I like the sound when you type on it. It a nice a keyboard, that's for sure. The spectrum with t, but I loved that. I loveved the rubber keyboard, but yeah, but it was a bit more Yeah, like a proopy, I guess. I was just wondering as well and like, you know Did you do any programming on it because we've had so many guests on this podcast that have said their background? programming on the C sixty four or typing in stuff from magazines as well and kind of You know, learning how to code essentially I did. I armoured too even use the word Anthony Culfield and coding is an insult to anybody that's ever coded ever, but I did try And I typed in endless computer listings Um so I would, you know, it would be a but I loved it. You know, it wasn't a chore. I'd get up Sunday morning with a mission to type in and by seven o'clock on the Sunday night, it's typed in, you know, and then we all have those experiences what happened when we ran it Beyond that in terms of going any further, the only thing I ever really did in basic was I made my own CFax. because it taught me a little bit about how to change colors and also use the try and attempt to clock with within the sixty four. So that's about as far as I got, but I don't think I've got the mind. I'm quite musical, so I would always go to my guitar or something or play a game. I sort of I didn't have the You know having met and interviewed a great number of coders over the years, there are some similarities in their mind, in their focus And I think you kind of need that to be I'm not saying anything more than that. I'm just simply saying you've got to have this sort of this focus and I think I've all one thing I've always admired about Coders is that there's great intelligence in there And sometimes when they're trying to explain what they've done They've got that thing where they think they stop for a second. I think I have to dumb down to even explain the problem, I have to dumb it down so much. and there's a sort of a There sort of mutual respect when you see coders get together and they can have those sort of conversations where they don't have to worry about reducing it into layman's terms. and that drive I've always loved that drive, their obsession to get because there's no such thing as perfect code. There's just better code or more efficient code and their obsession with that can just make it a little bit better and a little bit faster that That was a big difference as well compared to consoles where you just plug something in and turn it on. you know, you're getting dropped into somewhere where you have to actually Learn a bit of coding even the basics just just to get something running or there's a bit of, you know, playing about poking and kind of prodding. I've played a lot of text adventures. In fact, I've got like, you know We've got What we got here at the moment. We got this that you bought these. I think little Is that a story there's a story behind this. so Zork, we got one Yeah, Zork one and three. The there is a fourth. So when one day I went to a car boot sale And I found these at car booots out and they're in such a wonderful condition. But the thing that really appealed to me, I love playing them. I absolutely love playing them. It's the artwork Ca If Infilcom did a great job with that, didn't they? Yeah it's absolutely amazing on there And that's what really drew me to them. Rather than that, it was just a text, you know. it's a really good game. So this was something that I did play on the Commodes. Itought from you. Avenger games also brought you closer to the device itself because you were having to input, you were having to type And it just felt I always I always liked I did play a lot of games very a lot of var games, but I was particularly into text adventure games and then obviously the other thing about the C of sixty four was you got graphical adventures quite quickly. I still remember I've still got it. I still remember Gremlins I also like the Scott Adams games because Oh. A the guy in Birmingham, I think it was or somewhere up northeast do the graphics for him. Allan. Coworth Somebody used to createph youd do the graphics for Scott Adams' adventure Games for the ' sixty four, and some of them even had very basic animation in them as well And they were that was fantastic being able to have I know I know that's not the spectrum at the hobbit and there were that's not a particularly new thing. but I can just remember going through my own my own life and going through and exploring because you can only you know, you play a game for the first time and it's that impact that it had. And the sixty four had a lot of that for me where presentation on certain games for better. And I think the American software And that's probably just moving ono the film quickly That one of the challenges actually, or things that are interesting as the most is the European commommbula sixty four story is quite different to the US And what a beutiful story. You know, if you were if you're a US user, this was your There is a disc in there. You're holding up a copy of Sw, can you? Oh keep this is we're holding up beach headad is beach head to disc versions. But what the point I'm trying to make apologies to our people that are not watching is this is a disc based game whereas obviously the majority of people in the UK and Europe We're using cassette base. I'm now holding up Kickstart to. a cassettepe. I didn't know anyone that had a disk drive here. Everyone had cassettes. I was the only person I knew of in my immediate circle. that had a disc drive and this was a Commodve. because dad got it from Commodore, you see. they were more expensive than the sixty four itself. Yeah.t they like there were about an extra one hundred pounds more, something something like that or fifty pounds more than the sixty four. So it was and that's one thing that all surprised me that in the US is how How were they able to I know it sounds silly, but how were they able to so many kids were able to or families were able to afford the drive You know, if their story is disc based games, that means they had to have disk drives. Yeah. with the disk drives ferociously more cheaper in the U.S How did that work? Well theyed. Maybe. That's what we find out. you like to go into movies actually not knowing information and you want to discover that. That's something I've always wondered as well actually. So yeah, it willll be interesting to find out kind of the truth behind that. yeah, whetherher there's disposable income or yeah. Was it that was it some packag deal or You know, you could use from unless I've got this wrong and I know there'll be people screaming ifm if I'm wrong, but I believe the Vic twenty disk drive could be used. With the sixty four was it? So was it that there was an installed base thanks to the V twenty in the US? That meant there was a lot more disk drives out there that were compatible with the sixty four when it came out. It could have been that install base of the Vic twenty, But we don't know, but we'll find out I mean, obviously the games are such a massive part of the The Commodore sixty four and I imagine it's going be you a decent chunk of the movie as well. I mean, if I think I mean, I grew up with a Commodore plus four originally, which I can't imagine you're going to be making a documentary unfortunately. But my brother did have a Commodore sixty four. And if I think of that machine, you know, games like International Karate Plus Turkan, we had Bubble Bobble, which was a great b on there as well. Less ningjer one and two. I mean, what kind of the titles that kind of defined your youth then that take you right back to being a kid that you loved. I would say the first jaw dropping game I ever saw on the sixty four was impossible mission. I was believe it or not, my muma dad sent me to a programming camp in native called Camp Baumont to try and that's when I think I realized I really was terrible at programming. But by the what I've discovered was that most people in the room were just playing a posossible mission It was almost loaded on every every single thatat and spy hunter spy hunter. which was a great conversion for the sixty four. if anyone remembers that with that Great I was obseted Thank you impmossible mission one two Though two came out a few years later, but yeah. Yeah, but I loved it. But I'd say again, that looks like US titles only, but I think So impossible mission, but when paradroid came out as well. Andrew Braybrook's game eighty five, I think that was That absolutely blew me away. I was on paradroid for a very, very long time And so so Par I mean, Paradroid is a technical masterpiece and we we're very pleased have done a film about it If called what did you we call it in the end paradroid Parroid It's got a catchy title of Paradroid. It's terrible. We put it on one of our classic, we put it on the Commol of Cities for Classic Game Inights to get it out on Blue Rad. I can't it's embarrassing. I'm worried it's called birth of something because we've already called I thought it wass just called Power Dve It's got Par somethingomething masterpiece, but You've done quite a lot of films to be fair, haven't you? Yeah? Yeah. readingorties. Th little subheadings, aren't they that we've creat. As Cassie gave insights for a way of us where we sort of just very quickly talking about games, we have an audience that likek the hardware stories. we have an audience that like the business stories about what happens to certain companies and things like that And we have an audience that just they just want to know about the games So what we used to find is that when we did flight from bedroom civilans or the A amigi is the second disc. or second download was dominly gay making ofs And then we realized that we were sort of selling ourselves a bit short because they seem like when you said the word extras, it seems like sort of trims that weren't good enough for the film and things like that. And we were making these extras as little self contained featurettes or short films, some with music, some not And we sort of thought maybe we should actually create a new product that's just about if you're just into games and into games for a particular platform, and we started with the Amiga And we did the Amiga Classic Game Inights Volume onene, which is just straightforward you know, each film is about a particular game with their developer and his and and their strategy. I think it When we're making the films, it gets very frustrating that you think I cannot go into as much detail as I'd like to with these particular games. And there's amazing stories. Most of the games that we've covered on the Classic Game Inights So it's been really nice to be able to sit there and go, you know what? we can do like a thirty minute edit here of like and I'm doing tob raade at the moment, but you know that you can go into a lot more depths that you want to. So' trying to do with the insights. I think there's specific games as well that are just marvel you know, you think about the limitations of the system but also the size limitations. It's insane what they were doing and some of the achievements. So Euridium's one that you mentioned on your kickstart page as well. why does that stand out It's I think it stands out because of Andrew Braybrook's absolutely fantastic attention to presentation And I think he under I think he undersells himself and he's quite a humble person And I think he undersells that and what I wanted to get from the interview we shot with him was I wanted to drag those details out of him because he wants to talk about them, but he kind of thinks that people wouldn't be interested and we are And and it's that to me elevates some games from others Present the little touches You only really notice when you think, oh, you know, the bass is reallyf on theid on the paradroid logo or the the manta flip in iridium and the way it so beautifully flips over and there's no real and also the way the momentum shifts in the ship in the manta as it slows down and speeds back up again, there's no jolting or anything' Beautiful. sixty frames sixty frames a second game. It runs so beautifully. That's on that classic Game insight, it's the Iridian Ring off Kind of interested in learning the inspiration behind The stories what behind the games, what made them make a game like that, you know, and that's what we can go into a little bit more detail on. That's right. L I think there was a few games which are featured in that on that classic Game Insights Commoda sixty four volume, but I think it was Defender was the way the ship turns in Defender is quite smooth and slick on Eugene Jarvis's game U So obviously inspired by that. he's thinking right for the sixty four, I want it to look as good as that and ended up in my opinion, making it better because of because of that attention to detail, the shadow work, everything on iridium is perfect. I think it probably represents Is there a better shootem up on the sixty four than your iridium? reallyally? Is there a better there isn't? Yeah on the sixty four the scrolling is like the paralax he does on there. It's like Insane, isn't it? No try to Yeah, it's trying to get that console and arcade level on a system and you know, achieving the kind of unachchievable back then. And u In you know S I su. certain films are ageless. So the goal of that film. It doesn't matter, you know when it was made you could classify Jaws as that or whatever, but that's probably not the greatest example. But you get what I mean.' Well I think there's some games that fall into that category as well where it doesn't matter how many years have passed, they kind of still look great and they're playable You know, the certain games that fall into that. and for me the Colies four has got quite a few of those. I find Bruce Lee incredibly playable Bruce Lee, I fire that game up twice a year. I just always fancyer and complete it every time because it's actually quite a short game. Ipulsiblemission falls into that idium paradroid Bayrook games, proroject Fast St. there's some other There's also some sort of more obscure Cboda sixty four titles as well I was that infiltrator. Do you remember that? but apparently I've read quite a lot of stuff that people didn't like it, but I remember it getting a gold medal in zap, I'm sure it did It's fun know sometimes that happens, isn't it? when kind of, I guess internet kind of hive mind to come together and suddenly it games considered bad, but we all loved it back in the day. I've seen a few examples of that over the years. What about leaderboard? did you play leaderboard? The golf game No. They were That was just I would never have thought in a million years that that I would have ever played a golf game on the Cbula sixty four andet I went and Sw it demoed in a comic shop Rodney's in Barking. I used to go there and buy comics every week and they started to sell Commonar sixty four games. No other platform, No nothing else. They had a commonar sixty four in the corner and the guy that normally would advise you on which Hulk and Spider Man to get was now playing Coda sixty four games And I remember walking I remember walking in there and he was playing leaderboard And I stood there for like half an hour watching it and I just saved up another another I it one pound pocket money a day as so not pocket money, lunch money. So that acc covered me for the bus to school lunch in the canteen and bus home.ad. So I knew that I knew that at Lerbard it's an Ameran game that it was ten do ninety nine cents So that meant eleven school days without food and walking to and from school hour Yeah just to save up to get Lerboard. And I did that with a few games. Hero was another one. I loved John Van Rritson's hero for for the sixty four They actually Better on the twenty thousand six hundred, but don't tell anyone I said that But it's actually a bit faster than the twenty six hundred. But Hero's a great game. You remember that helicopter over the lzy Yeah yeah. ye Yeah. So there was a few games where I would actually save up religiously, you know, probably losing weight at the same time um just just to get those games in, but they, you know, that's the thing you would You knew in the eighties you were living through this incredible era I can actually remember thinking that when I was buying Zap And I was reading Zap and I was reading what games were worth getting and stuff like that and leaderboard and all these this thing. I kind of felt at the time that we're on the cutting edge And there's something, you know, this next thing was this next thing was coming. Well that's what it felt for me mean I was going to get into the magazines actually, because obviously they were, you know, such, you know, in that pre internet era, that was a way that we found out pretty much everything, really. So I mean, are you going to be covering kind of the magazine element of the Commodore sixty four culture in the film then? and how kind of important do you think that was? Well I think yeah, we'll be covering the magazines. And I think it was quite interesting magazines in America as well that we're going to bring in because they're actually through our kickstarter We actually have a special edition copy of compompute, don't Sette? Yeah available. So yeah, we're going to be looking at various magazines. There was actually That's come back, hasn't it recently? so it has it has In fact that's the thing. What we What we didn't know was when we were planning this kickstarter We realize that that the The problem we've got is that the archive footage is so expensive because most of it a lot of it' owned by CNN and a lot of the main news networks And they charge like several thousand pounds a minute U with minute with usually with a one minute minimum, sometimes a two minute minimum So if you're going so what we think elevates our films that is that nostalgic real archive from the day So when you're seeing either genuine adverts or genuine footage of the commodore being used With the Rubbee one, it wasn't quite so bad because we were largely dealing with UK though Getty were very good to us, but we were largely see the UK footage houses, ITV, channel four, that sort of thing. With this particular movie we want we want shots inside Commodore. in the mid eighties, the factory, all of those types of things You know, it could be as much as thirty forty thousand pounds and that's that's a conservative estimate So what we're trying to do is trying to find a way to bring in more of our US the US audience is a little bit more fragmented than the European Commodore sixty four att least that's what we've been led to believe. The European fan base for the sixty four is more sort of united, whereas the US there's a lot more people that don't realize the sixty four fans. When they see something, they're like, o, that was my computer. And that's a sort of reaction we got with the rubber key wonder a little bit So we looked at it and we thought, okay, well, we've got two audiences, a European sixty four and a US sixty four audiences, both will respond to different games and nostalgia and other things Both sets were The magazines were integral to them Because that was the pre interternet days. you wanted to know what games or peripherals, you had to buy the magazines. So in America, the main the biggest one, there were others, but the biggest one was compompute Gazette and Compute' Gazette was set up specifically in the early eighties for Commodore products, Vic twenty and then inevitably the Commodore sixty four and then Amiga So it was it was for a lot of people, that was their Bible. and was it used to sell three, four hundred thousand units Um each issue, you know, sometimes higher. So we sort of we because computes come back, computes, gazettes come back chap called James Nagl. we had a lovely chat with him and we're doing a one off special Cbodore sixty four aition, collectible audition, which you can only get through the campaign. And then it gave us an idea Wouldn't it be good if I could if we could if we could get Zap do a fortieth anniversary Zap and get Gary Penn, Juniian Rignal, Paul Glandesy and maybe one or two others back to do a one off issue and a full size issue as well, not a small proper sorry I don't mean proper as in the other ones are not proper. I just mean origin the original size is what I'm getting. do one of those issues and get them to come back just for a one off and they agreed. So I think as well I think those magazines are so important and people getting them that kind of culture being created around it. How much of the story was like kids becoming creators and I hate, you know used a C sixty four was that kind of condu it to getting into bigger things and becoming big developers. Do you know something? I know obviously through just through research at this point some people Yeah, some of the people that we've We've interviewed in the past have said that they started on the Commodore sixty four Yeah. But to be honest, I think we're going to find out a lot of this when we start making the film. You kind of you go into these films and I think you Every single time. I know weve said this many times before But you genuinely have to go into it with an open mind. You know, you want to cover the early demo scene Compet you know there's a lot that you know you'd like to. So they're all part of our questions So when we interview people, we ask all those questions And then generally you sort of get to a point where you've done a certain number of interviews and there's a consensus You know, I think we've mentioned before we moved in from bedroom civilians, one of the reasons we ended up shooting so many interviews is because we couldn't work out what happened in the early nineties Yeah. Its went on and on and everyone had a different opinion as to what actually seeing, why did the UK industry go through such a dip And I think a lot of it was through boredom. actuallyctually I think they just got d with doing licenses and a lot of programmers felt the early days of being able to just Pick up, turn on your commod or sixty four is that expect from whatever your computer was and write a game in the next over a few weeks. and then potentially get it published and released and make some money and then do the next one. Th those days were kind of gone by the early nineteen nineties. So of courseust evol industry evolved. So with the common of sixty four, we get to go back to those earlier days. So like I want to talk to some of those American developers that I don't know so well, the creator of Bruce Lee. The only problem is wasn't really a problem, but most of those games were all written on the Itariia hundredid You know, the Itari H ported over We have to feature the Atari eight hundred. We have to feature it because it played a role in why the sixty four was made in the first place. It's just Atari bungled the marketing they just didn't quite get bungled as a bit harsh, but it was they did try it, but they kind of were wararners were running them and the wararners just saw the twenty six hundred as their cashcow Whereas the actual engineers at Atari in the late seventies were wanted to like oppositely the early Amiga, the Amiga Joe Deps drew out the Ameiga diagram in nineteen seventy nine after they'd finished the Aire at hundred because they wanted that to be the next computer and then they left because Atari weren't interested in supporting that engineering. Jack Tremel at Commodore always had that grasp of good product What do I need? How can I beat other people? and how can I undercut them How can I that's and from what we understand, again, we're going to find this out for sure. it was his idea for the sixty four K because he wanted to beat anyone at forty eight K or lower So he thought wascover sixty four We'll find out about a team of engineers that presented the idea him Yeah it's my understanding. But we will find out. But from what we understand this early stade the sixty four but he was dogged about. He wanted it to be sixty four K and that prevented some issues. But could that could all be hearsay? and we'll hopefully find out from the horses's mouths when we do the film. I find it interesting as well at that point you mentioned there about the kind of the Commodore sixty four and other the machines of that era being you know, a bit of escapism, I guess from kind of everyveryday life because I mean, you think of, you know, Britain, for example in the eighties, we had like four TV channels, you know, three at the start of the decade. they would turn off as well at night. Yeah turn off at night No internet. So I mean, do you think that's why those kind of systems provoke such an emotional reaction to us? because I mean, I kind of think obviously it's an age kind of thing as well. you know, we all get nostalgic for our childhood, but I wonder if like, you know, my If my eight year old nephew will be nostalgic about his iPad in thirty or forty years away that we are about the the Aiga and the sixty four in the spectrum. Do you think there's a that? Yeah you got one you want to go I was just going to say, I think certainly for me, it was something to do that I didn't think I would be able to do. You know, I can everyone's got a a smartphone now or the pads or anything like that. But back then with that, I know I'm going to mention my spectrum again, but it was just something that I could sit there and I could do something on my TV. It was a really good distraction and something that would challenge me a little bit. so I really enjoyed that You know, I'm sure you are probably the same. I agree with all of that It wouldn't have happened if the technology wasn't great Be if I mean I'm going to get shot for this, but if we if the only computer that came out in the early eighties was the OC I don't be here. You know, I think it's because the Comm of sixty four the spectrum of some of those other early machines were brilliant. And they they and they were good enough so that programmers could make them sing and create great experiences for us to enjoy. And then that led to more experiences and more experiences and developers then learning from another developer and putting that concept into a new game coming up with Suny original, and it rolled on from there. The technology hadn't been good It wouldn't happened. you still needed that brilliant tech that you could get into and want to get into. twenty six hundred was a closed walled garden. C couldn't couldn't program the twenty six hundred because he had no keyboards, had no way into it any of the other consoles. So of course, it took a programmable computer that was accessible and not ridiculously expensive. The Appen too wouldn't have done it because it was what two thousand dollars. then that's where the magazines came in for me because I was like my brother would get a magazine. I'd look at that and think, oh, I can actually type in that listing. You know, I wouldn't even know where to start now. If someone put something in front of me to program, I'd have no idea. I'm trying to program a modern Mac or something, Yeah't. And it wouldn't really appeal to me. I think that back then I was like, yeah, I really like this. This is just something a little bit different that I can do. I did I remember the graphic Aventure creator. I actually did write an adventure game and send it in to somebody. and I got a very nice rejection letter. I should know who it was. I don't even remember who it was now. I don't even know if I've got the letter, but I love writing using that graphic Aventure creator gat as it was called. I remember shooting my construction kit as well messing around with that. That was quite fun. so ye. It was escapism. I wonder what you think of the modern FPGA scene and the recreations of machines coming out because people are actually recrereating that limitation that they had back then in you know a modern way and their old machines are kind of dying and it's kind of still keeping it alive, but people are actually chasing that limitation and that kind of ination breeds innovation in the limitation breeds innovation because if you've got and I think sometimes people find that almost depressing when they've got what seemingly unlimited resources, which isn't really true. You never really have you always fill it up or, you know, you push it to a certain point. But I can see the appeal of what you've just said, abbsolutely because it kind of think almost that right. 've I'm restricted to these parameters. now I can just create within these parameters and you don't have to worry about you know, making something necessarily cutting edge. And I think that's one of the things that allow a creator to just create knowing that they don't I think it's a nice thing. Most developers actually used to try and do whatever they could to to push the system to its limit. I also remember RJo Michael saying Amigas. first thing the European developers did with the Amiga was rip out the RS to take it mal. They weren't impressed in anything else I think the key the king of kind of limitation was Rob Hubbard as well And you know some of the music and some of the melodies and programming that they achieved in such a small space, are you going to be focusing at all on the music around the Z sixty four? Absolutely, deffinitely. be a cr I think would be a cr a crime not to. and' and each musician had their own style because again, they approached the limited for the time Commodore sixty four, what can we do? Rob was famous for creating those little snares and you know, his rhythms were so incredible. and there's a Hopping back to the classic game we showed a clip of this actually at the Zap live event a little while ago, but we've got a wonderful film of Martin Gorway talking about when he created the music for Rambo First Blood Part two. prior to that He'd heard thing on a spring and he literally was like I've got to really up in my game this Gremlin graphics guy, who he didn't even know his name, because this mysterious dude that worked for a Gremlin was just a notch up above everybody else. So he really, really put a huge effort into first Blood P two because he found out that the Gremlin music guy was now working on an arcadee conversion called Commando And he was quite worried that and of course, when the games came out, actually first blood part two scored higher higher audio marks than Commando, But he then found out that it was Rob Hubbard. So there was this wonderful rialry, David Whittaker, Ben Dagleash who's sadly no longer with us, but you've got these wonderful musicians that cropped that cropped up and you know, when you take the US. Paul Norman There were some others in the US that did a great job Some of Sierra Online's games have got soundtracks actually sort of just not people aren't aware of them in Europe, but they're actually pretty good. So yes, the music and of course that gave that was a huge advantage for the Commod of sixty four because you were effectively getting a soundtrack While you're playing your game, you have this wonderful piece of music And these musicians,ob Rob would never have dreamt he'd be going into the games industry He was a musician first and foremost. so and the Commodore sixty four gave him a tool that allowed him to compose for an audience I remember there was a game called The Last of The eight It was a David Darling game. It was a terrible game to be fair. control readfully. But yeah, my brother and I' leave that on in our room just roll pub the soundtrack blasttering out while we're tidying up. any reason we' loed that game, yeah. It was a Mlronic game, wasn't it? I've actually got behind me And I had exactly the same experience. I remember reading the back and it was effectively a rip off of Mad Max. Yeah. All right. So and the game was terrible, but the music was so stunning. I did exactly the same thing, Dan. I left it on in my bedroom because I just liked it so much Crazy go. Yeah, one hundred percent. Well it's, you know, we're looking forward to this film. I mean, the kickstarter is running right now as mentioned until the twentieth of July. Interestingly you've got some good perks as well, including a VHS edition. fil Yeah, tellell us about that. I think again, it was tapping into the oldest Alger again, you know, I remember my I love my VHS player and we were like, you know, wouldn't it be really good to get the film on that VHS? That'd be really cool. So it was just that we'd seen it done before probably about a year ago someone brought one of our yesld Newsfield years a documentary made Oh, way before from B about twenty two thousand nine or something like that We made a short twenty five minute documentary about Nsfield publications that obviously did zap and crash magazines. and somebody asked us to sign it and it was on VHS. I think Chris Wilkins I seemed to remember doing a little run of them for a kickstarter a little while ago. and he gave us the idea of, actually it's quite cool, haven't it in this large te you know, put it on your shelf, it looks nice. So we sort of thought we'd do a and they're only available on the kick startite and that's when we thought of doing this special zap with the original reviewers coming back which is on the kickstarter. and the same with the compute Gazette and it was trying to create some unique things that are highly nostalgic But also really the key point of them is to bring more funds in for the film so we can effectively make the best film we can. Yeah. But we thought they'd be quite nice perks at that VHF. Yeah in the magazines, would you say It'sough because I got an old video player off my uncle a while ago. He had his wedding tape. He wanted digitizing and suddenly I start going to charity shops and buying films on video And it's been watching them on my CRT. It's something I never thought I'd get nostalgic for, you know, when DVD came along, I thought, o Oh, thank God, no flicker, but yeah, it is weirdly nostalgic now. So I it's like playing like vinyl Its that sound of a vinyl going around and you think I really love that and I miss that, but I do play vinyl now. That it's all coming back. And of course we've got a vinyl for one of our movies. That's right. In fact, somebody's asked us about doing a vinyl for the sixty four actually last night. about a loadable game on it because we did a loadable game on these that spepectrum vinyl. Which I had to test and I had to do a video of myself to prove that it could be loaded. I had to use three amp boosters, but it did load in the end because you have to really boost the signal on it. And the problem is Sony actually wrote to us and said in order to boost the signal to what you want, it would knock the needle off the record. you know, So you're going need to we need to actually need to lower it by game and we had actual music on there It would have boosted everything. So we had to Yeah. It got very complicated, but we did get there, but yeah, it's quite a lot to producing a vinyl. I'll tell you one very, very weird story, very, very quickly is that when we did that vinyl, it was done through Sony DADC. one of the few vinyl manufacturers left in the world. There are others, but But what was weird was when once they realized that there was a loadable game on the last track of side B, side two, side B they The guy that actually engineered it and got it through production, he did the very, very last loadable game on a vinyl for the Thompson twwins in nineteen eighty six. Right. back then he was a junior engineer and now he's a senior guy. So he said, I actually did the last one forty years ago. So he said, it really it was just a weird coincidence He sort of said, I've got it through the He said, we haven't done any loadable games on vinyl since nineteen eighty six since the Thompsonwins did it as a little as a little Thompson twins game. Somebody's probably got a copy of it out there