Nikola Jokic and Nuggets Future

Hello and welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Varrier, joining me Rob Mahoney, Jay Kyle, man. Every is happening. We got opt outs, we got opt ins. We got Malik Beasley being indicted just snuck really in there in between the Zach Levine opt in and also the Draymond opt out, which I thought was pretty interesting timing, but we saw you Malik We know what's going on with you Well and we saw Ed Davis, unfortunately, sneak into the Malikue Beasley indictment. So it's just tough times all around if you are, you know, involved in an elaborate multip pronged gambling scheme But otherwise, if you're just an NBA free agent, good times aboutound. It's always discreet in the flow of any conversation to announce, Hey, let's switch to this encrypted peeering text platform or whatever it is. It's all never raises any flags when you do that. So I don't know if you all saw the E Davis Malk Beasley thing, but yeah should be group chat, group chat to signal or something. What do you guys want to do? Yeah Whenever we whenever we're talking about something sensitive U Yeah, do you think they were just waiting for like a big transaction shams tweet to just be like, okay, fire it now. L just mix it into the water spot. That definitely felt specific from my point of view because it was like really in short order. It was like, bam, bam, bam and then all of a sudden like you look back on it and it's just like, o wa, this is pretty Interesting because we've been waiting on this for years at this point But Scks for like Bizzy, I guess, but like you kind of get what you pay for. Yeah. I don, I don't know if it sucks for him if he is, you know, reaping what he has swn All right, we got a lot to get to today because there's a lot going on in the NBA. The off season is upon us. Tmorrow, I believe is when the floodgates start to open tomorrow afternoon. But we're going to get through a primer here notot a primer. It's a primer. And we're going to go through all the big things, The Warriors, Jaalen Brown, GQui Leonard Everything you want to hear We'll do that right after this This episode of the Ringer NBA show is presented by Ferrero. The world is watching. Go all in for your team this summer with Ferrero Enter for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats like Kinder Bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling, or Kibbler Chips deelue cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks, or Ferrero Roche squares, with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold Go all in. Buy any two for rarero brands and you could win one million dollars. Official rules apply. Learn more at go allIinandwin d. com I was going through the wararriors just like books yesterday because it seems like something has to happen. And I was like, how do they do this without really just giving their entire team a facelift Butler is due practically fifty seven million, but he's not going to be back until February and then Draymond Green do twenty eight million on a player option. he opted out today. and I'm just like something has to happen. And then we got the opt out from Draymond and then we got the big old news that they might be just forming the expendables. It's a real like I was trying to think of a specific movie, like more like a Fast and the Furist or something in that realm where it's just like I hate you, but and you hate me, but we both hate the youth. So we have to come together and fight Viictor Weben Yum But who hates who in this scenario? Haven't they all kind of made up with their Olympic glory and whatnot See, we've gone so far down the road that Steh and LeBron used to be rivals. I mean, not necessarily like heated ones, but they were putitted against each other for multiple finals at this point. But so much time has passed as it so often does. Yeah. was a decade ago. We a lot has happened, you know? Yeah. It's getting a little comic booky because I have this experience I know a lot of my anchor touch points, whatever it is reference reference points circle back to me just having a son who I'm just, you know, whatever is is reminding me of comic books where I'll pick up one of his comic books and they'll be like different characters are aligned or like they have alliances or they have different powers. I'm like, I thought they hated each other and then he's like explaining to me what happened. That's what this feels like. The comic run has just gone on to the point where Venom and Spidey are on the same team now because they have a common enemy, you know, Big maximum carnage. shhout out to my Spidey fans. That comic run. That's what this feels like Our enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of thing I mean, that's just serialized storytelling, right? whether it's comics or soap operas or apparently the NBA So the kind of conceit here is that they would trade Butler for Davis, which is already comical because we talked about this on at the end of last episode. I was like, watch out for Anthony Davis because he has more of a market than you would expect for a guy who's dumped for practically nothing by the Dallas Mavericks. The wizards have just held ono him basically gave him a hotel for a couple days when he popped into town once or twice and like That's it all of a sudden they might re reward in the form of draft picks, but Draymond opting out then provides them the option of signing LeBron to the mid level. We'll see if that's what he wants at this stage of his career. I don't know if he'll get like a bigger offer elsewhere or at least certainly with the team that has aspirations to compete next year. But I look at the board here, Rob, and I'm just like all of a sudden the wizards if this does come to fruition are huge, I guess app appropriately unk sized and a little slower, a little bit more weight to them. their front Core all of a sudden would have if this goes through AD LebBron, Draymond, Jaxel Lendenborg and Christop Perzinggas who they expect to sign Somewhere between the first drive and settling in at the clubhouse, goolf becomes more than just a game Lulu Lemon golf gear is built for the full range of your day white layers as you head to early tea times Flexible fits move naturally with your swing. Our fabrics workick sweat and block UVs for hours in the sun And refined cuts carry you well to the nineteenth pole Shop golf gear in stores and online at lulumond. com for agency I just can't believe this is a real possibility we're actually considering Let me start before we even get into the mechanics of it Do we think this is gonna to happen? Do we think this is Likely probable, questionable. like where are we on the spectrum of The Anthony Davis LeBron James shoot the moon to get the full treatment that we're that we're laying out here. Do we think this is even somethings that's likely I would say it's probable and the fact that it's all laid out pretty specifically means that someone has this in mind. Is that Cutch? Is that the wararrior specifically? It sounds like probably both sides. I think the big thing that we don't know at this point is what the Lakers move will be in response to that. There are reports that they hadn't really been talking LeBron and the Lakers before anything like this happened So we'll see because they just let LeBron go and they just have to figure out his spot some other way. They would just have cap space Yeah and they'd have to figure out something to do with it. And so I don't know, but I would put it at probable right now I mean, that's exciting. Like I'm eager to see this team come together even with all of the like random front court pieces they're going to have to find time and room for To me, the Anthony Davis part, like that part is negotiable. and you could even see it from the wizard's perspective of as you laid out, Justin, like how little they gave up at that Maverick steal in the first place if the warriors end up throwing in not just Jimmy Butler's contract, which you could ostensibly trade again, but some first, a handful of swaps, like that is worth Washington's time to participate in if they want to do that The thing I'm kind of waiting and seeing on and this is where the clutch involvement is absolutely critical. The will LeBron James take the MLE to go play for a good team We've been having that conversation for so long. I just kind of refuse to partake in it anymore until it actually happens. So I guess wake me up when LeBron actually does leave like tens of millions of dollars on the table, which why would you, even if you are LeBron, James Yeah, we keep speculating about that and it's I've yet to see. I mean, well, you know, Brunson as a young man grranted. There's a lot of people. we won't even go there. but there's there are a lot of machinations and ways that guys can get compensated. You know, you hear hear this stuff whispered about, but in the in the in the forefront out in the open on Main street. It's like we've yet to see a guy really Le Bron's winding down. How much how many more opportunities is he going to have to in the league get this amount of money granted his market ability off the court is unlike any other player in the NBA. He has all these different ways that he can be made whole. But I mean, if you're looking I'm looking at this from the wizards perspective is is an expiring Jimmy Butler and then you look at the first that they're going to have. I guess the that the warriors are going to have and then seconds obviously has become a unique kind of marketplace in the draft for negotiating with guys. We saw like a first round pick, a desirable guy who was projected as a first round or drop all the way to what fifty seven with Vesar. So that's a unique thing, but I'm just like if I'm the wizards, is that the most appealing that could happen because you could look at this and say, these dudes are old. This could explode. I mean, famously available, you know, Anthony Davis is is headed there. They' depending on him. You've got we were talking about speculating about the not speculating talking about the age of Steph Curry going to be thirty nine. this is going to be his thirty nine year old season. Draymonds, you know not a spring chicken anymore. You could look at this and be like, this could just blow up and suddenly those first that they have could become something I think if you're the wizards, you don't want to be paying Anthony Davis next extension. In fact, I don't think most teams want to be paying Anthony Davis next extension. I think you can make the case for the warriors if only because they need to take advantage of the next year or two because the clock is very much ticking with Steph Curry. How they got to this position despite the fact that they had everything in front of them. They had two timelines and now all of a sudden They have one very narrow one that they have to thread. It's basically this year and maybe next year, I would say are the Windows. That's a whole other podcast. It's like ten other podcasts that I'm sure we've done at a certain point. But for the Wizards, yeah, I think it's just draft capital. It's just opportunity. For the warriors though, I just don't know like what this even gets them if it does come to fortun. I guess you just want to make the best of the opportunity, Robert.'s It's steh, it's big names. likeike let's just let's just figure it out, right? This will be fun and it will be profitable O anything else. But I don't know. in terms of like, is this a legitimate threat in the West? I don't think so Probably not, but isn't fun and profitable and interesting enough? You know? L I just I don't know that the wararriors are going to get many better opportunities to put together compelling team around steh then something like this. L You can trace back the original sins wherever you want. Maybe it is kind of You know, blundering about with certain draft picks, the two timelines thing in general. mayaybe it is the kind of like the wait to do a Jimmy Butler style trade to begin with. They kind of like dragged their feet even into that process and then Jimmy got hurt on top of it and that's kind of exacerbated everything that's come with it But here they are Steph Curry is at this point in his career. you only have so many years to make the most of them left. Why wouldn't you swing at the biggest thing you can swing at? And I don't think you're going to find the one player out there, especially given Gen States finances that's going to fix this roster. It's going to make everything whole again that's going to, you know, magically repair Moses Moody's knee and make Jimmy Butler viable or turn his contract into an all star level player other than something like this. like healthy Anthony Davis and if LeBron James comes with and if it's like a package type deal I just really don't see the alternative that's going to be a better solution for Steph, a better solution for Golden State, and frankly, a better solution for people like us who would just want to see a version of this team that feels watchable and interesting every night Yeah, the u We're I mean The fun and the profitability aspect of it, obviously, you know, they're going to they're going to make money if they bring in everybody LeBron affects economies. We've seen that repeatedly. But the basketball side of this would be pretty fascinating. I know we're getting kind of far on the road about assuming that it could happen The idea of if they resigned Pzinggas, that just feels insane to me. You would think that he would have some opportunities for cleaner fits to slot in somewhere else across the league. but just like the idea of AD LeBron, Draymon, like Satially, that's weird. You have, you know, LeBron has developed into a more capable jumpshooter, but Draymond famously spatially challenged AD has been tormented by he's just had spatial demons on offense his whole career. That's a bet on defense. I mean, I would assume, right? And then you got to think where's the ball pressure in that group. It's harder to hide love, you know, if you have those guys, it's harder to hide steph in high leverage situations L like he's probably going to I just I find that all odd because you're trying to walk a tightrope of you would need some guys who can drive the basketball on the floor. Is that going to be like but Jimski? whoo are they going to do that? So just kind of balancing those two things It would be interesting, but feels like it's kind of self contradictory to me to make it work Well I think we'd have to suss out some of the ripple effects if and when this were to happen But some of them that I would assume, for one If a trade like this goes through Gary Payton the second all of a sudden becomes a really important free agent for them to bring back for exactly the defensive reasons you described. Famously famamously not spatially challenged Gary Payton also just we just like stnack snack, snack stack. I mean, why not at that point But also I would think Right now the formulation is between Al Horford and Chris Achorzenis, you're getting one functional full time center, right? Like They can kind of toggle minutes, toggle availability that between the two of them, maybe you can get a full season's worth of centered play out of them. If they get AD, I don't think they bring back Porzengus on top of it. Maybe that'll be wrong. Maybe it'll just be icing on the cake on top of the icing of the icing, but it doesn't feel like that would be a good fit It makes me wonder had Bur's dropped one more spot. It seems like he could have done a lot of the things that you're kind of describing there, Kyle. Instead Yaksel just only makes them just like even bigger. It's just like at a certain point, they just have fours on top of fours at this point. I think that's one thought I had when this first came down. I think the other one was like, I do wonder if the warriors picks are way more valuable than just getting AD. Like maybe it only takes two to get AD and then you could just have a little bit more of a runway after all of this falls apart in two to three years. and so you keep those, although that was the problem with the warriors to begin with. but I'm just like If you're going to just like get give up all the assets There's just like a lot of draft capital here because they only owe their twenty thirty at this point Can't you go out and get something bigger? likeike wouldn't allaowi Market in or someone with like an actual fit here be more attractive than going to get to AD? I know like the maybe it doesn't work because the agencies and maybe that was the price of Draymon opting out to begin with, but just feels like you can do better than AD because as we mentioned like he just went for like a fake first last year one first and like a bunch of fake other picks.s he shouldn't have to give up so much. But he went for a fake first I guess it was one real first and one fake first if I remember correctly but ye he went for that because the Mavs were the desperate team. right Like they were desperate to move off of him Now now Golden State's the desperate team. L they need some kind of solution here. They need to string together some sequence of moves that puts together a roster that is worth Steph's time. And right now it is not in that place. The actual stuff is very funny though, justust like the way that all this is spinning out and Look, you have to wonder if he's being punished himself by either the basketball gods or Golden States for an office for like putting into the ether. Oh, I might have an opportunity to start with this team. likeike that, you know, there's really an opening here for me in the front court. The Golden State of Warriors will tell you if you are a young player or even a fake young player like Jaxel Lendenburg, not so fast. You simply must wait your turn behind these like bigigs we're going to bring in Lee C so not so fast. I would say this about Yaxel like from listening to him talk overver the past two or three years, like there can be this confusion with guys just like what's going on with him? Like why why is he I think with most people, ideally there is sort of a screen door in front of their mouth whenever they and I think Yaxel is just there's the doors just open. He He thinks it's kind of similar to Anthony Edwards when he was younger. He's gotten a little bit littleittle bit just about like If he thinks it, he says it. it's just kind of I think and you just kind of roll with the punches, but like the free agency market here, I'm just like, did they allocate that money instead of Por Zinggus and go get like Anfredy Simondons, who do they who do they go get? I don't know, I don't know it needs to be a two way player. So lean into it go find a way to get Drew Holiday. I don't know, but Yeah, the finances would be really crunched at that point. I don't know. just looking at the West here, I'm just like Is this even a top six team If everything goes well for a lot of the teams that we have high expectations for, like they'll be back in the play in mix. I guess it will be a real spirited fun one. I'm sure there will be multiple documentary crews that will be chronicling this step by step and that will be fun like five years from now, although I haven't seen an interesting sports documentary in at least five years because they're all just like completely controlled by the participants Uh, but I'll watch it. I'll watch two episodes and it just be like, oh, that's fine and then just trail off I don't know. Rob, does like this going to matter, I think in the big picture of the league in the West even? I mean, it will matter in the sense that it will be one of the biggest stories going on in the sport. just with the collision of talent and reputation and history and legacy that are all happening at the same time in a major market. That's going to be a real thing. Are they going to be in a position to contend with the thunder and the sppurs and the best team in the West bestest teams in the West I'm hard pressed to say that they would get that far But I also just don't I don't see the Lowerry Markinin type alternative that you're laying out. We've been waiting for the Jess to trade Lowry for so long and now they're just not going to because they reformulated a wholen team around him And there just really aren't that other like other than if you can string together enough salary to make a Jalen Brown bid, which they I mean, doesn't really make sense from Golden States or Boston's perspective. Like what are we talking about? Like what else is in the Eether That's a clunky style fit for sure. Jalen Brown with Steve Kerr. As we've seen, you know, like with the Olympics side Does that does not compute on paper. Yeah. you know I would rather Anthony Davis in a crowded front court over Jayen Brown in it a just crowded mismash of styles. I'm just asking Not me it's odd. I mean, they're going to have to rethink the way they play for sure. I was just looking through Yeah, I mean I just don't see I mean Quinton Grimes maybe two way player a little bit could play with that gp. I know you're grinning. I'm looking at the free agency list on Spo Track here for guards. I just don't. Oh, it's going to be tough. It's going to be tough. It's going to be like Uh Buddy heields like non guaranteed contract defaults and they bring him back to come off the bench. It's going to be stuff like that that's going to round out Golden State's roster if the trail like this goes through That's still not a dribbling basketball player. I mean know like depending on LeBron's brain an awful lot at that point. They just I think of I think the triangulated handling between Drammon, LeBron and Steph is enough Is it optimal? No. Do would you want another like dribble penetrating guard? Of course. I just don't know where that guy is going to come from. trrade for Yokich All of a sudden is maybe available get to why not a bit. Um All right, since we're talking about Jayalen Brown, why don't we get into the Jalen Brown sweepstakes part? What is it? twenty six At this point Just really the spiritual successor of the Yanna sweet steaks where justust feels like every day, something new, but nothing really ends up happening U Do we need to get to start with this the analytics war that broke out out of out of a Bobby Mark's radio hit that was aggregated and apparently not even like fully like we didn't get the full context of it. Do we need to talk about this? This seems all very silly I don't think we need to talk about it to be honest, but look, if we want to get into into the ditch and just roll around a little bit, I'm not goingm not going to take that away from you So seventh best player on ZoneG So Baylor Shiermman is just at home like like looking at Reddit being like, hell, yeah, buddy, this is my moment. I always knew I was better. It just doesn't make sense. like I don't know what analytics you could even be looking at that suggests that he would be somewhere in like the hundredth and fiftieth best player in the NBA if that was the case it seemed weird to begin with. And then it really just like everyone didn't care because all they did is just jump to the assumptions of like analytics fucking sk. and you have Jaalen Brown jumping in and David West I saw in there. And then you had the el analytics people being like, No, we're great that was a different David West by the way, I think. I was think that was Oh, I thought it was the real I think there's analytics guy named David West, right? I don't know, I think this is former basketball former NBA player David West See this is I thought this I thought there was another person that the same name. doesn't seem like that unique a name. Yeah, I mean, when I saw it, I was just like, good God. I was like, this is just going just stirro And the thing the thing about like a model like quoting a model like that I've never built a model, but I would think in the process of building it, I would be sort of doing trial and error to make sure that it gets close to how I perceive basketball. Or you could just, I would assume reverse engineer it and be like these are the maybe those are different versions of the same thing. But if I had a model that came out and said that, I'd be like, okay In life, you hear takes from varying people, you know using like we won't go there, but like the political spectrum. You hear a wild thing and you be like, okay, that's clearly way over here. You know, you kind of you dial in what's in the center, what's right and what's left sayaying he's the seventh best is just Jayen Brown's always been complicated for me personally in terms of my taste, sensibilities as a fan of basketball like It's just not quite for me. But I've li I've been proven to be wrong. He's won a title. He's been a part. I think that he's hard to optimize on a bass unli like a championship level team, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. He's not my favorite. But to say he's seventh best. I was just like I ejected. I was just like, I can't, I just can't. It spiraled and it did exactly what we thought it would do. It spiraled completely out of control. People started making it a race thing. I was like, oh my Godd, this is the darkest timeline of what like It's it always goes It always goes there and I just I tried to sit it out as best I could. It's so stupid. It's but it's stupid in the way that I want Summer Dcourse to be stupid. So I'm happy to poke in on it now and again. I would say a couple of things. One People have crazy deranged basketball takes across the spectrum. think The problem with analytics as an idea is it lumps all of these computational like Uh like all benture quants into one category as if they believe one thing There are whole ass conferences where these people come together and just argue about what things matter and what things don't. And so the idea of like, oh, the analytics community says this. The analytics community doesn't say jacks shit. It's a bunch of people with varying models who widely disagree on things. So had a lot of ego wayt thought it was one base But it's not turnurns out it's not Yeah. The idea that like, oh, an like Someone who is analytics oriented thinks Jalen Brown is the seventh best player on a team to me is very similar to something I used to do when I was at Sports Illustrated for our preseason preview, which is the anonymous scout takes, which are these are Iye test professionals and you would not believe the shit that these people would say with a straight face and complete belief in their voice as far as who is good and who is not who these teams should bail on, who's a complete liability There are basketball people with that Absolutely insane opinions, doing every function within a front office. And so here we are with Jalen Brown just won a championship in near history For one of the most analytically driven teams in the league I just I don't really understand what we're doing here, but I guess that we're just going around the ben one more time Yeah, one of my favorite things is people complaining about like us in media not having the level of sophistication that like would map ono NBA front offices. And a lot of the times I'm like, do you realize these guys are just basically working the trade machine for fun? Like I know people specifically who just game theory out trades in order to just come up with fun ideas that could make their team better that ultimately just go into a file. Like Kurt Goldsbery has talked several times about how we just basically wrote blog posts for pop, you know? It's just like like they're doing similar things here. And one of the thing is like, yes, when you give someone anonymity, it is a hell of a fucking drug, they will say, some wild shit that not even like I would even go into. And I do think someone probably, if you found the right person was like, yeah I mean, J Brown's not that case. the seventh best player in the league But it was probably said in that sort of fashion and the more it spins out, it just seems like it's something that it wasn't Should we do anonymous media member takes where we give anyone, you know, fellow Ringer employees, people out there, but they're just I'm just say same. honestly that would be a great bit for JB. We do the whole like voice moduddling software, like we make it completely anonymous and they get to come in here and be like You know what if you gave Derek White his own team, they'd be the second seat in the Etern conference. Like I just want I want just takes with no reputation on the line You can get that together for us? Okay, I got you.. I have the technology There's just so much even trial and error with like you hear teeams that like hand track things, like data, but there's there's The people logging things can be like a weird inefficiency on some of these tracking sites. and then you're like, you're making these wild conclusions. I know you all have probably had this experience I have where I'll see something statistically on some of these advanced sites and I'll be like, that's really interesting. And then I'll follow I'll pull on the stright. I've talked about this on the show, I'm sure. And I'll get to the end of it and be like, that's not true. Like I don't the numbers just that is just not true So you just kind of have to Just keep your head on a swivel when you're out there. It's not I don't know. I agree with you all. People try to loop everyone together. I always joke, I get lumped with the nerds and I'm not like a nerd math person at all. I'm way more of a tape person. so I kind of feel like I'm like in the middle of these two camps fighting a lot of times, to be honest. I'm not a nerd. I'm a deb. okay? I just want you guys to be I'm a nerd of a certain variety For sure, but yes, but like I said, I'm not a math person. But just keep your nerds and your dwves and your dork separate. Respect our cultures, please in the Christian Lineas taxony, right or Rolos or Husly can't remember what it is anymore Well, it is funny because I don't think the Celtics think that Jalen Brown is their seventh best player actually. but it has surprised me throughout this entire cycle of rumors How active it feels like they are with wanting to trade him, I had someone whisper to me as the yonest stuff was going along like Jalen's actually more available than you realize. It wasn't just an opportunity situation where they saw Jana' available. This is what we have to match. You just take Jayalen and we'll get the better player U It seemed like there's just the divide there either because of Jalen's hardheedness, because of the just shrapnel that's accrued over this relationship or perhaps because they went through the season. It seems like they just didn't like the results. Brad Steven seems obsessed with getting a big and it doesn't seem coincidental that like in any of these trade scenarios, you're like, o, they get a big man. It's just like fromrom a farm like you just, mean Jwellanbed was available and good for like the one week that he does that every year at this point. You don't need to overreact and kind of upend what was a pretty good team. a team that I thought could get to the least East fininals last year And so I just find myself, Rob with all of this, like just still confused like what is the motivation because this team just has so much good for going for it. I almost feel like they should be adding to this in order to build out around Jalen and Jason even more rather than than just tearing this apart and starting it new Well, I think it's a combination of two things. One is the sort of This from a personality standpoint and team chemistry standpoint has sort of run its course and we're just ready to sort of move on with a new collection of people in this locker room, or at least not Jalen Brown in this locker room think that's fair. I think the other part of it is once you cross the threshold into We were going to earnestly engage in the Yonest trade talks. And I think those talks were worth having. I think if anything, Boston like really miss an opportunity not seealing the deal and getting Yanis in the first place. That's neither here nor there. That's done. We don't have to relitigate all that. But once you make that decision, the Jalen Brown thing is decided. L you only get to play the we didn't mean it. It's not personal thing with a player one time. You get it once with they already did it like four years ago with Kevin Durant. like you can't go to Jayalen Brown again and be like We really love you. You're valued here. We know we just tried to trade you for the upteenth time, but like That toothpastase is out of the tube. And so now it's a question of what can you get for him? What makes sense? What is the optimal trade package? How long can you string this out without damaging the team or the progression of the season Those are the big questions in the air right now to me more than can they keep him? because I think I think once that is out there, you really just can't go back And it is kind of funny to think back about the Durant one in particular to think about this some of the reasons that are driving the Jalen Brown discussion in general about just like, well, is he happy? Is he you know just there seems to just be general grumpiness. It is kind of funny to think about them pulling the trigger for again, here just say the line again, famously happy and content Basketball player, Kevin Durant. It just funny to think about that timeline that we didn't get to see don't see an obvious fit for him as well because to me, he is the perfect one be. you want to support your top ten player just outside of that. But when you give him a team That team ceiling is going to be around like, you know, second round, maybe Western conference finals or Etern conference finals. if things go well. And he's because of the reasons Kyle was mentioning before, it just seems like a harder fit really build an elite level Web and Yama competitor sort of team. like Portland is obviously in the mix here. I just don't see the fit with him and Denny like really being an ideal one. If anything, they do a lot of the same things. They're almost like redundant at certain point. If you're already pot committed to Denny, I don't see what the problem of the theory would be in order to get Brown in order to do similar things only to talent grab, but like still it just doesn't moveove the needle for me The most interesting one on the board, honestly, Rob, for me, and I'm curious what you guys would think about, like just where he would be best suited It would be like a team like the Clippers that just like doesn't have anything going for it per se in the immediate term where it's like,, we'll just ride the Kawai thing out for as long as possible. I don't know if they have the right assets. I assume Wagler would probably have to be involved maybe like the Pacers pick down the road. Maybe you can get involved in the Kawai like going to Toronto or somewhere else and this is all sorts of triangulated, but like to me, he fits there where it's like a team that's on a certain tier the play in perhaps. And he's just a younger, more long term option that could perhaps give us more options in like that like three to five year range and we could just be better than who we are. mayaybe not the best, but we could be better. But from Boston's perspective, what are they getting in a trade like that other than if they wanted Kawai, which I don't really think they do It would be difficult, which is why you would have to get a third team involved. Maybe he goes to Toronto, Toronto sends something to Boston, Maybe it's more teams. And at that point it becomes super complicated. But I just think in terms of fit If it's not the cllippers, it's a team like the Clippers that's just like here and they just want to do a little bit better with their circumstances. Yeah One team I haven't heard a lot about and I think this is for somewhat obvious reason, but My whole issue with the Yanna situation is But there really just aren't many opportunities with Jayen Brown and his contract and the situation the Celthics find themselves in to trade for another truly elite player. R like a player of Yonis's caliber We're not really hearing about those guys in Jalen Brown, you know, trade machinings and whatnot. It's a lot of like hererb Jones and you know, maybe the high end Jamal Murray or someone like that All of those make sense for various reasons If you're the cavves, would you at least have a conversation about Donovan Mitchell And I say that because There's always that kind of thing in the air too with Mitchell of like at what point is he going to be dissatisfied with these situations? And maybe it is like a temperature checking operation as far as like how content do you think he is with Cleveland I don't think Jalen Bown is a perfect fit in Cleveland by any means. I think he's a lesser passer than Donovan Mitchell in a way that how it would have. Downstream effects for guys like Mobli and Allan would probably force you to reconsider the shape of the team in a lot of different ways But I just don't know how else you get if you are Boston another truly elite player we had what do we have Jayalen Brown on the top one hundred JV like fourteenth or something like that Yeah I don't see anyone in that top thirteen and one of those guys is Jason Tatum being available for trade other than Ki Leonard, who we mentioned who I don't think the Celtics would trade for. And maybe someone like Mitchell hypothetically, who you can at least get like a maybe conversation starter out of. Yeah, another thing the fit between like Harden and Jaylen Brown, I just feel like that would be just waiting to explode. I don way way to course granted, I mean he and Tatum have a kind of a tricky a tricky sort of balance between those two. I'd heard someone mention the hornets. I didn't, I mean I don't know how that would work Justin Gening. It like you you'd have to be giving up another big piece of who you are. I don't I don't know how that would work. I don't even think they have the salary to really make that plausible No. I think N read is now making the most on that team. Yeah twenty It would have to be, but they need Naz reid and then ye Yeah, I mean Just running down through here. There's not there aren't many great fits and I That might be a testament to what we were saying earlier. it's just a really tricky fit. I think maybe you have to have like volume spacing like shooters get up a lot of three point attempts to really make that work because I think the whole kind of sell on Jalen is the two way power that you get out of him, but then you have to build your office of roster a certain way. Well can I throw some crackpot third wave trade trade machine ideas at the two of you? Look at this Rob Mahoney workking the tradingachine. I'm just trying to get Pid for times like this I do it for you, Justin. Thank you.. I'm gonna fully admit, I don't think these are the best ideas but No bad ideas in a brainstorm. All the obvious stuff is already out there and on the board. So I just want to get your instant reactions to these potential outcomes What if you traded Jayalen Brown to the Sixers for Paul George and VJ. Edgecombe Sixers are taking a shotgun to their phone. They're not. Are they? They love VJ. I know the world would they court that. Let me ask you this. What are the odds that VJ is at any point in his career a top fifteen player Like we ever be as good as Jalen Brown is right now I don't think it's about that. I think the highs maybe won't reach as high, but I think VJ is way, way more of a vert like a universal donor in the basketball sense. like he might not hit the side like He he is going to fit into a lot of iterations of high high, high level teams, I think. and VJ's also like just an exemplary culture organizational guy, notot that like Jaylen isn't that in any way, but I just think he's very much amenable to a lot of different ways that the sexers build. There's no way I'm giving that up. and he could be an all defense guy and develop into like a fringe primary offensive guy. No chance. I'm getting rid of him. Well looking at this from the seeltist perspective and this is something I don't understand is like what would they do with a twenty one year old There's like a real in between zone where you get someone who's young, maybe still on a rookie skill contract who's played a year or two. Obviously Klinging has been mentioned with Portland. It's like that guy is like ready to play now, but he's young enough and cheap enough where I think it matters for a Jason Tatum centric reset. If you're going to do that and plus, you get other assets on top of that. If I'm just getting a young player, I do wonder if that's going back too far without the draft capital to either just have a longer runway or spin that into something else. Totally fair. I think that's where Paul George, present tense player would actually be pretty useful for Boston lookook, I understand all of the concerns about trading someone like VJ. not just how pliable he is as a talent and on the court, but like trading a good young player on a rookie scale salary is not a smart thing to do under basically any circumstances. Not advocating that you should do it. I'm just wondering if we can have a conversation about it. You know, I'm wonder if you can get somebody on the phone. Apparently shotguns are involved I don't think concerns is the right word. I think these are downright hard walls where you I don't even have to like it's just not happening. You know I don't even have to dignify what you just said with my concerns. likeike I'm not Well, how about this is Well, hold on. do we almost trade Jayalen Brown for Paul George in a past life as well? C Their salaries are close. like I would say, if you can about's era Paul George. Wow. Yeah, I think that almost happened I mean, I'm pretty sure we almost traded Jalen Brown for everybody at this point. So you would have to make a short list of players he hasn't been connected to in hypothetical deals. Let me throw a few more at you Could we trade Jalen Brown to the Hawks For Dquel Alexander Walker, Jonathan Caminga, buddy heield salary And I think maybe you might need to include even with Jalen's massive contract. Maybe the Hawks also include the twenty twenty seven first. that is the less favorable of New Orleans in Milwaukee, which could be a pretty decent pick. or maybe yeah, I think I think it has some slight protection on it This is my favorite option on the board in terms of where Jalen could go because I think the Hawks, even though I would personally slow play this unless some of the younger guys try to figure things out, you have to kill on this absolute bargain contract. I saw something speaking of the ans saying that this is the biggest bargain deal in the entire NBA. I would point out that Deny Avdia makes eleven million dollars was an all star and almost an all NBA guy. But that's just me That's just me. But I think like that is the sort of team where it's just like you get him at such a cost that the talent outweighs the downside of the fit And I do think the haawks are in a position where they're going to be pretty good no matter what they do adding Jalen to Jalen Johnson and and whatever is left there, Flemings and Dyson Daniels. It makes sense that the spacing fit is going to be tough with Brown and Daniels in there Again though, I have to ask with the Celtics like what does this do for Boston to have? Flotsome and not evenick you're not giving me any picks here, right I think it'd be one pick, but it is a top four protected and it's yeah, it would be the least favorable of New Orleans and Milwaukee because there's a swap involved. but I think I think it's Nikel as a nice centerpiece to bring back on a reasonable contract. Maybe like a Derek White aer apparent in terms of someone who's giving you like great consistent defense every night, good connective play, really good three point shooting Like he fits Boston style in a lot of ways. He's not Yonis, you know, he's not an all star that you're bringing back like baked. Oh reallyally? Well you know, maybe from a certain point of view, he could be, you know mayaybe we just haven't done enough reputation laundering for Niki Alexander Walker to reveal him to be the superstar that everyone knows him to be Not yet that That's way more intriguing. I mean that salary is still Jalen, good God. he makes so much money. You're still off on the you're still short on the money, but The pick is enticing I think the money actually does work if it's Nikil, Kuminga and Buddy healed. I think that those like those competations salaries do with the new with the new healed deal. I don't think it's on the track. I guess it's probably not on the machine yet, but yeah, it's at forty eight point three, but yeah. Boston needs something. he needs Flemings and needs Dyson Daniel needs some young stuff in addition to N hes good, but like ye, not enough. It's tough. I mean, honestly, and then I did have the Jalen Brown Sam Hauser for Jamal Murray Cam Johnson construction that Bill has sufficiently stolen our thunder on now And then this cab's idea of like, is there a Jayen Brown I think they might have to the Celtics might have to include more to make a Donovan Mitchell swing if Jayen Brown is the piece So' be like Jalen and Jordan Walsh and a first or something like that for Donovan Mitchell and I think they would have to dump salary in the deal. so it have to be like Denis Schrudder or something like that I think the Portland option is probably the most likely one on the board, if only because if we're tracking motivations here Portland leveled up last year to the point where they're no longer in asset accumulation mode Plus they get to the playoffs, and all of a sudden you realize how much space is left to get from just good to being on the level of some of the bigger teams on the West. and then you add in the ownership. I think ownership not only wants to make a splash, wants to put his name on something but also like he's been consistent our guy Tommy Dee, that despite the fact that he's doing a lot of cost cutting on the fringes, the money will show up on the court. I think this would be a proof of concept of that, justust getting a suupermax player in the building. And so like I think it makes sense from the outside from the external forces rather than the team side of things in terms of like the actual fit on the court. What do you guys think if he were to end up there? Well, let me ask you about the money showing up on the court. L Do the court stop at the sidelines? 'causeuse like once you get into the bench area where the head coach is standing, is that not included Yeah, enough that it's just between the lines. the baseline does not get included here It's not square footed. Aarently not. There's no egress window there Oh I think I would be similarly concerned to what you laid out earlier, Justin as far as the way that Denny and Jayalen Brown would fit together doesn't really make sense to me. It's not a synergistic It is not I mean for all the things that Tayum and Brown had to work through to make themselves a championship style pairing, like there was a lot of give and take there. And there was a lot of like learning to be better spacers for each other, learning to play off of each other in ways that I just don't think Denny would be well suited to. like you want the ball in Denny's hands as much as possible. And yes, you want half court counterbalances to make his life easier I just don't really think Jalen Brown is exactly that kind of guy right could work. I mean, the more I'm thinking about it, they would it would it would be clunky. They would have to figure out how to do it, but it's not like an MB Ben Simmons type fit where you're just like these don't really we can't really position these to flow into each other. And I know you say like you want to get the ball into Denny's hands as much as possible. It's like there is a threshold like where it's not like we need him pushing like thiries usage rate, you know, I think at some point you raming your you get a basketball concussion as a team if you ram your head into the into the door of a superstars production. like you have to like scale it down at some point. Maybe Jayalen be open to that. I mean, you'd add another you'd add another primary guy who was also, you know, big time defender like I' saying, I think it would help Portland And Portland already is a little stymied half court in the in the playoffs setting. So its it could I don't know, the more I think about it, I'm like, it could work. It would be it would be painful to get there, but Like it's not terribly dissimilar from the Tatum experience. and maybe Brown comes away from that whole thing thinking like I could I can make this work, maybe Yeah I understand why the Trey Murphy is probably a little more frothy than someone like Brown because if you're an ownership group, you'd probably say, I want Brown in the door. I want to be able to sell that we have an all NBA guy. just like put him on the poster him, dame, Denny, that would be great But what Portland needs and what a lot of the teams were talking about, including Boston, would be someone who could just put up ten threes a game, do a little bit of everything, develop still in the midst of what you already have. so He makes way more sense in order to make sense of certain teams. likeike Jalen Brad is introducing problems. I think Trey is more of a problem solver. So also Why don't we take a break, come back, talk about some other off season stuff It's me the We don't need the jingle twice Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars. Ss like Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to sixty percent off hotels in the Priceline app Fine. No one deals more deals than Please stop It one cruny bite of her Hershey's cookies and creream bar and I' taken right back to college Moving day. I was a little overwhelmed by the newness of it all. Bxes were everywhere, I needed a break from unpacking. But just as I was able to take a breath and open my Hershey's Cookies and creream bar, my new roommate Rachel walked in I offered her a piece, but she said no Then after a beech, she said, actuallyually, those are my favorite ones we left The ice was broken and we've been friends ever since Hershe's It's your happy place All right, in the midst of all of this triangulation and like what could happen, the hornets have been very active before the actual buzzer goes off on the off season T trades, L Mello going to the Timberwolves. Th then we have Miles Bridges Michigan State alarm going to the bosom That is Matt Ishba in Phoenix U what a God. I'mum bosom You said pods, we do more bosom for forty eight minutes and it's all because of Dustin than anybody else You said that way too easily, like that just float out of you It is one of my go tos. How it happened? I don't know, butud Oh I think we know how it happened. There's some real in there. There's some real like bothersome like freudiancoding on the of things that you do easily just. How I spend my off season is none of your business, okay? It's entirely fair I'll be honest, I lik the Lameelo deal more before I saw the fine print on some of the pick swaps because it ended up being three swaps in addition to what was it a twenty thirty three first, which is like so far away I just don't even know like what planet I'm going to be living on, but like two of the swaps have been pre swapped and so they're not as like gangbusters as you would expect I liked it more though, like I balanced out once it happened in concert with the brridges move Rob because on the one side Carly Lamel was so successful with last season. He was the engine of what they like what was like one of the best turnarounds we've seen recently and one of the best offenses in the league too. It wasn't only a few months ago that we were basically wondering whether or not this guy could stay on the floor. So I understand selling high. and I like it in concert with bridges because you're basically just cleaning up shop. And as you were talking about before, desperate teams have to do something. The horns are not into that situation. And so I like the sober long view that they showed here where they said We're not going to buy too high on the success that we had. We have these young players. Let's figure stuff out. Like can Kan handle the ball more? I don't know, but I want to figure that out and I appreciate that in the face of the success of things They have a lot of time between Kon and Brandon Miller, especially as kind of like the tent poles right now. And you know, Kobe White's going to do good work for them as he did to close out last season. Naz Reed. also ball handler as far as bigs go. like there's a lot to work through and work around and figure out what can all these guys do in these like slightly supercharged roles I get that I get the play overall as far as like who Lameomeello is as an injury risk. And frankly, this is probably like a savvy bit of business to trade him after his healthiest season in a long time and just make the bet that like For as much as we like him, we just don't trust him to stay healthy. And so like let's let's get while the gettings good. Let's get these picks in the door, these swaps in the door, a really good player and Nas Read evenven if he's not as good as Lameello and just make do with this haul of stuff that we've got in return. I think it's an impressive haul of stuff. I just am loathe to give up Lameelo Bald the basketball player. and I am probably on the far end of LMello belief as far as these things go, but From the time he has been a hornet They have never had a functional offense when he is not on the floor I don't think that's an accident. And some of that has included last season with, you know, with Brandon Miller with K like with these guys in and out of the lineup, granted given some of the injuries there, but He's transformed what they were offensively and accelerated all of the players around him. Like he legitimately is one of these guards whose imagination makes good players that much better That's not a guy I want to. I'm not looking to get out of that business But if you're gonna to do it, I would guess that it's for some reason like this, which is we are just going to we're going to take a slight step in a different direction stylistically. We're going to get all this stuff and then figure out what to do with it. And so acting like a young, interesting, but also aggressive team in the market I don't think it iss a bad decision for the hornets. It just kind of bums me out that Lameelo isn't gonna to be a part of everything that made. frrankly, was a huge reason why the Hornets were so exciting last season. Yeah, I don't think that the basketball side that was so exciting was really going to be doable long term sustainable because of the choices that they were going to have to make. I mean, you know, Lomeello is going to be UFA in twenty nine thirty And then I had to run down. I mean, Brandon Miller is going to be due to extend Um, Con is going to be extending that summer and then Miller is going to be extending the next summer. So if you think and you have to really think about the brrides and L Millow thing together here on the basketball Sinces because they're going to have to pivot to something different because they They offloaded their two most competent drivers at this point. Kon and Kon can get into the pain and can do some of his like little fade kind of shoulder spin fade jumper that he can make and then but he and Miller are really East West players. So I think you're probably if you're thinking that Kobe is going to come in, it's going to be a sort of I don't know when you sit down at at a plate at a dinner table and it's like the entree is at one spot. They're going to have to kind of just tilt it. likeike it's it's going to be it's going to be a little different like the how they approach their offense is what I'm saying. like Initially it was Lameello was the catalyst who came in. Maybe that means that Miller and Khon take a little bit more of the initiator weight just because Justin's grining, I'm worried Kobe White is just more of a natural score. I think that Miller and Kon have have more play making sense in their game. So I just think it's it could offensively take a little bit of a step back in the short term Thinking that Kobe's going come in and just be like, okay, come in and be this game managing, you know, steady quarterback. I don't think that Kobe's that guy. I think it's more likely that Kon and Brandon take on more initiator reps So I guess Con and Miller are kind of like the peas in the mash, I guess. But what if you eat them together? Like you put the peas in mash and youe There' protein. There's protein in the pizz. It depends on your perspective. You could come in and be like, this is a vegetarian meal. This is maybe more the arre for now. I don't know. I'm just trying to think creatively with you here Well also, I mean, let's not sugarcoat it. The offense will take a step back. like I don't see a path in which Charlotte's offense is as good next season. Now they may be a more balanced team. They may be a deeper team in certain ways We might see exactly the kind of development you're talking about, Kal from from Con from Brandon Miller, from whoever might pop up and down this rotation as far as creation goes. but This is not going to be a top five offense anymore. It's certainly not going to be the high watermark of who they were over the last couple of months of the regular season. There's just no evidence to suggest that they're going to be that kind of team. And so then the question is, what is reasonable to expect of them and how good can they be in the short term as they kind of figure out all this stuff longer term? There's certain like Jalen Brown type qualities to like them just turning the page here where it does feel like they're exercising the knuckleheedness of their team. And I think no matter how what you do around the mellow, that's still going to infiltrate into like who you are as a team spiritually, culturally in the locker room and all this other stuff. And so I respect that. They're like a little bit more boilerpl at this point. They don't have the same sizzle as like a league pass team that you would expect, but like Naz Reid is a very good player who fits what they're going for there And I just feel like being able to take a step back, reassess, see what we have and just like be the better team three years from now matters so much more than just being like more exciting in the immediate with Lamel. They're hardier if we're going to continue this this meal metaphor here. little hardartier, little chewier right now, but I think you'll be feeling better about yourself in the long term. So they've gone from what to what? L what's the hardartier upgrade? They're now a shhepherd's pie, but they were what I think you're you're like a steak sizzled with like Tuckies on top of it Yeah. And now we're just like' like a hearty quinoa based bowl, you know? Honestly I think there n Yeah. I mean, that is Lamella Ball. likeike let's be real about it. There is the part of him that will forever be a twelve year old boy. And there's also the basketball genius lurking within. so Also lurking within. Not going to lie W would fuck up some talkies right now. Actually does sound kind of delicious. So's let's get that going Lameelo is Hot Takies is like center of the bull's dye. That's really great. No, I mean, I mean, like they L, I was talking with somebody about this. Lameello, this may seem insane. I know Rob, you've said you're on that end of the spectrum in terms of LMello. It's in terms of its talent I mean, he might be the best He's in the conversation and might be the best ball handler passer in the world. He can do things that other people There's there aren't many people you're talking about the rarest of rareified air in terms of talent, but it's just like how stable is he And when that person is removed from your team You're going to notice that. And I think it's going to it's going to ask a little bit more of some of these guys. Maybe they play through the bigs a little bit. But I mean, if you if you tilt this and think about Lameelo in particular about his legacy, which I just day and night think about. I'm just consumed with it. Yeah I'm checking how his shoes are selling, you know, his jerseys, things like that If Charlotte does not plummet. if they if they do pretty well in his absence and then the Minnesota thing, which we can, I don't know how much y all want to get into that. If that fails to launch This is a pretty big inflection point for the Lameello conversation down here. Yes. Do you want to talk about the wols now in this end of it U I don't really know what to make of it at this point. I guess my Biggest thought here, Rob is that I guess I didn't realize the wolves were this desperate in order to make something happen. Although when you look at the particulars, it's like, yeah, I mean, like Anthony Edward has like what three more years left on this deal. If this goes poorly then year' two, like two years away is typically when guys start to ask out and like the train is probably already off the tracks at that point And I get the understanding like when you look at some of their failures in the post season, not having that complimentary ball handle, not having the sizzle, especially when Anthony Edwards was out. I get all that stuff. in theory, Sir. I just it does feel like they are spooning out their entire identity here where they have been season after season, the biggest baddest team that can counter bigger teams like the nuggets. And it does feel like they are aspiring to something different. And that always scares me when you have something that has been moderately successful. Yeah. I mean, I think quite successful relative to every other team in the league that hasn'ton a championship of the last three years. like the wolves been a really successful team I also think it's okay to pivot from that. given the way their playoffs went. This was a very interesting Western conference bracket in terms of the number of teams that just had serious reckonings along the way. Like we're going to talk a little bit about the Denver Nuggets. They're one of those teams who kind of ran into a wall and have to really reassess. I think the whole Julius Randall situation really put the wolves in a tough spot where that's not a player who's easy to replace with just like another plug and play power for. Like he's too talented. to just assume someone else can do what he does And so then you do have to reconceptualize your team. If you're going to either trade Julius Randall for, you know, another starting level player, which they failed to do or salary dump him in the manner that they did. You got to get creative. like you have to start including some of these picks and some of these swaps and bring in something really dramatic and the most important need on the board was the counterbalancing playmaking to take pressure off Ant to make it so that you can't just double him every time down the floor. You can't just treat him and treat the rest of the wolves as if they are a simple problem to solve. And I think Lomeelo does do that. Will he be available enough? frrankly, who knows like putut these ankles in bubble wrap from like minute one that he touches down. The idea of him trying to walk on an icy Minnesota sidewalk makes me very nervous frankly. So you know, puts that of the what's it called that you put on the bottom of your shoes, the theamp bikes Yeah yeah, crampons hiking crampons. can we do Campons all the time for Lameello ball, please pink colors Yeah And as far as like who he's going to be in some of these like intense physical playoff series We really have no idea because we've never seen it. and every time he's been in a play in game, it's mostly gone quite poorly. So I really don't know. But his role is going to be totally different. And I think the idea of him playing off Ant is very exciting to me and those guys kind of creating a playmaking relationship is very exciting But there are so many questions here. evenven for people who believe in Lameello as a player and as a prospect and as You know, a reader of the floor This is going to be something totally different for Minnesota that I think will probably demand Lameelo step into a slightly different space than he's used to. that willll probably demand Jade McDaniels playing the four if not full time, at least a significant portion of the time and Ant to kind of figure out ways that all of these pieces make sense together I think he'll be a nice release val for Anne in a lot of ways, but I think that this is going to probably There There is a world where this suits Lomeelo pretty well. I mean as the as the secondary guy to Ant because he can and he can kind of move in and out of that primary role as it I mean, I had it written down here. I mean, he was like the primary player in fifty nine percent of the hornet's actions when he was on the floor. So he's used to being central. He can hit catch and shoot shots he can sort of like Nnash to one side of the floor to the other and pass the ball move it in a way that the that the the wolves haven't had really I can't I can't think of a guy that they've had that's been like that that's been kinetic and really versatile. But you're right. I mean, it definitely is You know, they came into those playoff series being like, all right, man, we're going to just bludgeon you and beat you up at at the four or five spots. And it was like they did do a lot ofge bludgeoning and beating up, But the guard depth and the versatility and the switch ability of the sppurs just kind of wore them down over time. grranted, they also had Victor Wiminyama, which matters a wee bit. But not having Nz Reid and not having Randall there. you just, like you said, Rob assumeed that McDaniels is going to slide up And then do you play IO out there also with Lameello and with Anthony Edwards, and then you got to big your big backstopper of Rudy Got I did enjoy the tweets where people were speculating about Gobert catching all the passes from Lamel Ball, which that there a lot of people were quick to point out that there's a little problem with that sentence that it starts with Rudy Gobert catching. So we'll see how that goes. but It definitely be a shift of perspective for sure, similar to the hornets. I think they should at least experiment with like how much sticky tack can you put on Rudy's hands? Like how much can you get away with before a referee notices? I think it's at least worth trying We hadd have big dude on our team in high school who struggled to catch the ball and our coach literally sprayed his hands with. I'm being serious that happened It had the same effect with a basketball that it would like a football. I don't know. But don't you want to find out Didn't alter his career all that much, I'll just say. so's my. The real analytics revolution is figure out what chemical product will make Rudig Go Bear be able to catch high loobs. That that's what I'm looking to find Well, he does feel even more critical to their defenseive success than he already was, which is a real saying something because he was already practically the entire defense. and maybe that is the calculus that they kind of came up with here. It's like despite the fact that we were big, we were counting on Rudy so much. I mean the fact that he's thirty four at this point, it does feel like a lot there. Although, I don't know if you guys have caught any of the clips of them talking about Johann Baringer lately. It's like they saw Jesus in the Dorito bag It's just old j like He put the length of the court between his legs and then dumped it on a gge likeike whoa. And so maybe there is a succession plan already in place there that that will solve everything They are pretty thin on the wings. notot only you putting JD McDano's down at the fore, like Edwards and Io, both six four Dante D Vincenzo if he comes back healthy next season. Also six four Lameelo plays like what is he six seven but plays like he's five eleven and weighs like one hundred pounds there. So I don't think he's going to be much resistance And so like Lelo plays like he's five eleven I mean,'s he's a great rebounder for one. Like, yeah, he's a little flimsy defensively, but Rightain incredible plays. Yes.es. Contain maybe not so much. Yeah, but yeah, he he anticipates he can disrupt, but No, I mean, he's not going to he's not going to wall anybody up and style. Yeah. So I guess you're just hoping that like you can get by in the regular season. you turn it on defensively in the post season. IO does enough of it, then Jayen is obviously a menace there. But it is like a real trade offff. They seem scintillating potentially offensively. L this is going to be an incredibly fun team to watch over the course of next regular season. likeike how do they do it? likeike how do the pieces fit together? Do they score one hundred thirty games some nights when things are clicking? That's great, but it does feel like defense is like You're hoping that the backstop is there because you need it to be no matter Yeah, But if you have two all NBA caliber defenders at the four and five or the three and five depending on how it shakes out and you know, a quiiteet bit of business that they re up Jalen Clark to come back as well, He has to be, you know, an important part of the rotation defensively given everything else they're giving up Maybe that's enough to get you where you need to go or at least the start of where you need to go And I would hope that the offense can counterbalance it. And that's kind of what we're going to have to do with the wolves is changing our understanding of where they win, where they've been such a solid defensive team for so many of these last couple years since they've gotten Rudy Gberer, that that's kind of their anchoring idea in a lot of ways. And then the offense has been a little wild, although that's settled over time Now they' a team that could be an explosive offense I mean, I would think Lamelo Ball is probably the most over qualified second unit offensive driver in the league at this point. Like I can't think of another guard like a guard tandem that would feel as good transitioning from starters to bench as Lameello with whoever the Wall want to try out with him. Let's jump off of that. How many back court tandems in the league are as good as Lameello Ant This is what I was kind of going through here because if you have decided that what you need next to Ant more than anything is the juice offensively and the handling in order to complelment him, you tried it in the front court with Julius Randolds worked okay the first year, didn't work the second year. I get moving on from him. But if you're trying to find another guard who is like reasonably available. The list is actually very small very quickly. And so I understand going from them well. The guys I wrote down are it's like Fox who obviously didn't had a worse postseason than anybody. Garland small going to be an issue defensively. Murray, Jamal Murray, not exactly the type you want. L you get to AJ Mitchell very quickly and I don't think even if you give everything up for him with the Thunder, why the Thunder would be interested there. And so like Lamel is almost process of elimination the guy you default to because you need what he brings When you kn what he brings and you knew what he could become too, right For everything that we've raved about what Lameello did with the Hornetets offense last season. The most exciting part of his game is that he still does have fat to trim and dumb decisions to weed out and the idea that he could be exponentially better than this, even still You're not going to say that about a lot of the guys you just listed who have already kind of reached at least the first levels of their potential or just don't have as high a ceiling as Lameello does. And so That's where you get a Wolves team that understood that they were going to have to do something that felt a little bit aggressive or a little bit desperate. And so once you make that decision and once you find yourself having to replace versions of the team that you've been, Why not swing for the guy that has upside as opposed to you know, and yet another stable Mike Conlly esque point guard to slot into the rotation. that would be helpful, but not transransformative I'm serious about the backbard. I mean, Spurs, obviously you have Castle Harper. You can keep fox and there's a tririumvirate But they're very. I don't think they're as good I mean, offensively not as I mean three they're probably better defensively but Ant can turn it on and off obviously, but the Thunder with Jaylen and Shay Granted they have a lot of guys and you think I mean, that's the Echelon that you're talking about. They would have to prove they have things to prove. That's assuming classifying Jayalen as a guard It's like he's like a wing guuard and he runs pick and roll. He can, you know, hit drible pull up threees. he can really, really pass. I mean, it's he he and so far he and Lello similar qualifications, I think in the way that they play play types, you know, size. I'm just trying to think I it's Not a lot of competition. No in terms of the quality of back courts in the league.. I think the Lakers are probably the one like Luca and Reeves. likeike that's that feels like the kind of firepower we're talking about as far as like a true star star back court where they can play off of each other, where they can spell each other There just aren't a lot of teams that have that kind of investment at both guard positions right now It's to be a lot of fun. I'm excited see what they kind of turn up here. All right. Can we actually say one more thing before we move on, Justin, just because I think we kind of zoom past it Phoenix doing this Miles Bridges trade fucking preposterous. like Why N mentess So as a result because they traded their twenty thirty three first unprotected Pers in that draft are around twelve years old Right now They can only trade one more first round pick from here until twenty thirty three and that pick has already been swapped twice They're twenty twenty eight. then they also have three seconds available. onene of them they recouped in this exact deal. So. For B brridges. The dude who anyone who was watching the hornets last season would acknowledge was like what was holding that team back effectively in terms of their best lineups But I guess if you have to give up a future unprotected first that not only could be an incredible asset in and of itself, but hamstrings your team in the process in terms of its trade flexibility. you just got to do it Bal out the roster a little. you know, he's not a shooting guard, which is which is nice. That is. G get him guess. Go get Morris Peterson or Goron Suton. I'm trying to think of some other Spartans who might be available. Doesn't a team clean work for the team? He does Valentine. I mean look Drayond's free agent now. Maybe make if the Godfather offer to Draymond to come in some. I don't know where the money comes from You know, when you think about Isaiah Thomas being around, I think this is sort of proof that we kind of continue to be whoever we were in that like six to eight years old range. I don't blame I don't blame IshPia for that. It's kind of like I get star strruck when Teeshon Prinince is around. You can never stop being who you are. you know,'s true. I started a team Yeah, I'd find a way to get Keith Bog's in my front office or something like that, you know That why I'm such a cool guy because six through eight I was just I was just crushing T you Um B Other intriguing situations still left on the board here, whereere you each brought one to the table. Rob, do you want to go with yours first? Yeah, I would in the vein of the Hornets and these teams that had interesting seasons with some momentum and then doing something kind of radical. The Toronto Raptors are just everywhere right now. They were in on the Lameello Ball Derby before they got outbid by the wolves And now they're it seems like hot and heavy to trade for Khi Leonard in a way that would accelerate a lot of plans, but also I mean just makes me very intrigued by how Kauai would fit into their team. Clearly a legend in Toronto, A Raptors's reunion would be great for a bunch of different reasons But if he goes back and like re ups on a longer term extension I ye they would kind of have a little bit of everything that you need to be competitive. I don't know that all of it is in the right place at the right time in their careers just yet and the East is certainly stacked in its way, but a Raptor's team that already had my attention would I think be putting its foot down in a conference where you really have to feel stable to compete with the best in the East right now. Is this the Koi move? Is this the is this So he has this change of heart obviously. We flip from, you know, he's trying to get out. He would only go to LA. doesn't want to be in Toronto, doesn't want to resign there. There was I know as happy as they were about him getting that championship. It was just like, man you really don't want to stay really man. I understand I understand that feeling from Toronto fans. U but suddenly he wants to go back. I'm just kind of like, is this? I'm There are a lot of people at the ringer who would pull heat references and I'm I've seen the movie I love heat. I don't typically pull them. But is this the equivalent of like he feels the heat coming around the corner and he's just like, we need a safe house for a season and then I'll make a decision about what I want to do next. We need to flee to Canada. That's the move. It's feel that way a little bit. It is weird because it's like it's o coming home, but he left Toronto specifically to come home where he's from in LA. And that was literally the big story. They had Bill Bs up all over the place. And were those spotlights over What was it It's like street lightights over spotlights. That's the was the slogan. I was like, Jesus Christ and then nobody cared about the team for five years. and GQad just steadily scooped up the soul of whatever they had built Yeah, it's a really weird thing, especially because a lot of the guys you're hearing as potential salary matching or just other assets going out are basically the two to three years that Masai had before he went out, just like getting any sort of mid tier veteran and none of them worked. it's just like it just shows how much respect he curries around the league and with us with media that everyone's like, oh maybe he's doing something here, Maybe he's buying Low on quickly, Maybe there's something with Ingram Just none of those guys really matter. If anything, your team is Scottty Barnes, some guys you drafted more recently, CMB in particular. RJay Bart's been good, but he's getting still paid like he is a foundational player, probablyrobably needs to get back on an extension less than that. But it's just like Ingram, do you want Ingram? Do you want it quickly? Do you want Purl? like all these guys just do not matter to their future This if Ingram is involved in this trade going to the cllippers or otherwise, it would really cement his legacy as like the guy you trade for when you have nothing else going on. You know, just like involved in various superstar acquisitions because he's good enough to make money and productive enough to talk your way into it. And congratulations. Now you have Brandon Ingram for two to three years until you decide to really be serious about it Yeah, it's the equivalent of like when you're trying to pick what you're going to do on like a Saturday night. This is the cycle that like, you know, you could go see a movie, you could go to dinner or whatever. This is the cycle Megan and I go through where like once every two or three years we'll be like, we can go bowling. You want to go bowling? And then we go bowling. And we're like, yeah, bowling school. that was good for one night and then we wit two three, you know what I mean? I feel like that's where Ingram is on the list of he's the equivalent of like mean, we'll go bowling. We've done everything else. We have nothing else to do. you know I was I was going to push back because I do love to bowl But also have I been bor but I don't go In five years, all of a sudden, I look up, I wake up one morning and I haven't and I need to rectify that People love the bowl here because during the winter you just need indoor activities, then I gotta say it's fine. Your wrists really start to hurt after a while. Those balls, man I something's wrong with your technique, I think. And also maybe your ego is making you pick the bigger ball, maybe. I don't know. That's probably what's going on there. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm going I get a lot of torque on that, you know. You're going a lot of bowling dates and just going straight to the heavy end of the ball rack and being like, look, this is this is no problem You a spinner? You a spinner, Justin It's been we know about this No. He is a spinner, you know? Big bowler over here. Okaykay. Who is the whoo's the giants pitcher? Tim Lensicom Yeah just had that really wild wind up and just put a lot of torque on the ball and then he just like his career was over. That's gonna be me. That's you out of the bowling alley? Yeah. They called him the freak. That's what they call me too in the dating scene U G U Next up, you want to talk about somebody else? y why don't you do your I dont I'm not going to act like it's on the same level as some of these other dudes, but I like this deal. I made this joke on Twitter that here we go. this is just like I used to be in sneaker groups back in the early twenty thousand ten s, very, very involved with like Facebook sneaker groups. And you could make a killing because there would be dudes on there. This is a little aside here, but there would be dudes there was a whole culture of you could only wear it once. It couldn't even have a crease in it, a crease of any kind. So it would be these dudes who would buy new releases, has a little crease They get off the shoes. And I lived in that little marketplace, but every once in a while Every once in a while, there would be somebody with a gigantic collection who would for whatever reason from afar I don't know why. they would just have to suddenly get off of a lot of their stuff in a short time frrame. and it was just a fire sale. And youd come up with some crazy stuff. One time I ended up with like Concorde Lowe's and and some sport Blue Jordan Th'es. People who love sneakers are going to know what I'm talking about. I got them for one hundred eighty dollars together T the century That reminds me a little bit of what's going on with OKC because the price that they that the pistons got Isaiah Joe for to me is great for the pistons. likeike I think that that it suits a need for them. I wanted to just kind of I just think that he is going to fit a certain role for them. I don't know if's going to be a star, but I think adding him was a the thunder didn't necessarily need him, but the pistons, I think it's a great fit. I have some more thoughts on it, but I'll let you all react to it initially there. If I can only if I can mimic your own, Nikil Alexander isn't as good as Janis Incredulity, Isaiah Joe is not going to be a star, but he is very good. too the point that he might be the pistons fififth or sixth best player as currently constructed And they just picked them up for basically nothing. I think the pistons going to be really intriguing this off season because they' in prime position to absorb guys like this because they have the defensive contactxt and Kade Cunningham in order to empower those guys. They really just need some of these shooters. We talked about with hero, they just need offensive juice and those seem like the easiest guys to get. Having said that though, I get two seconds for like a steady rotation player. seems like a low cost. I think Beef Stew also went for something similar. I actually think that two seconds got rerouted in this sort of deal, but whatever. If anything, it feels like a lot considering that everyone knows that the Thunder needed to dump money. If anything, the Thunder's players are so good that they're giving up two seconds just because there's so much competition to get to those guys. Yeah But I also think that's a real market though. like it may not be the return you honestly, I'm just like not fretting over giving up two seconds for a good player who can actually help you in the playoffs. If you're the pistons. he may not be up to the Thunder standards to compete in the Western confonference finals. But if you're Detroit, still trying to break through, still trying to run through some walls and figure out how to shoot over the top of them This is more than acceptable to give up when lots of teams could use an Isaiah Joe literally shooting over the top of them. Look at this stat. listen here. in the past Let's see I this written now. In the past three seasons, playoff and regular season combined. There' only been nineteen players who have shot more than four hundred relocating catch and shoot That means you're not just stationary. you got some little movement on it U nineteen guys, best shooters in the world pretty much. if you look at the list. It's like the stepffs everybody. Isaiah Joe has the highest field goal percentage am among that group. This due can shoot the shit out of the ball. So it's kind of like the Thunder as they went in the playoffs, you know, his minutes went down. I mean, he was down to like he was under like ten minutes per game because they just have a lot more options that are two way players and he decreased as they went down. But for the pistons, I think they have great defensive structure to kind of Protect him. I just think that they they fill a need here. I think he's going to hit shots for them. It's going to work. I also think guys like Isaiah Joe are really important as you're kind of buttressing Jayind Duran as hopefully a more viable stable playoff performer The pistons need to figure that out. likeike how do you keep Durren aggressive? How do you keep weaponizing him? How do you keep him from falling into the sort of lulls he fell into into the playoffs where he just didn't seem like a useful offensive player for long stretches of those games There's a bunch of ways to do it One of them is you really enable him. as a handoff option for guys like Duncan Robinson and Isaiah Joe, and you force teams to play up to him because someone has to handle for Isaiah Joe coming around that handoff coming around that ball screen And then you can do all kinds of things with d and rolling out of that and getting good action out of it. It's not a perfect solution. It's not a one size fits all. It's going to resolve everything that's going on with Durin, but it's a start Durren is probably going to get paid more than you would expected after watching him in the playoffs. becausecause all it took was one team or two teams. The Lakers out there needing a center threatening the restricted free agent offer sheet that's going to force them to pay more for them to give him more than that. And so you hear his name get associated with the Jaalen Brown conversation I don't really see that fit specifically and especially with a team like the Pissant that have so much going for them. He's going to get paid more than we expected and it's going to be fine there. But I agree. I think what they're adding on top of that makes sense. What they need is offense. They don't need to completely just upend what this team already was despite what a travesty he was in the postseason I also think like just big picture, is this just not a case in point of like taxing the rich actually works The thunder have an abundance. Yeah penalize them and then all of a sudden they have to disperse it to the lesser teams Man, Justin Mamani, youre really coming in from the top rope Radicalizing group chat I'm just saying. D you guys anybody gonna kick the tires on Jonathan Isaac? Anbody anybody interested? Can I any takers? Well, I can think of at least one major cable news network that might be interested in his services. Oh, o boy All right, before we go, one more for me in terms of an intrigue Um, what's going on with Nikola Yokich man? So he didn't sign the extension last year. There were financial considerations there where it didn't make sense long term if his aspiration was to bank as much money as possible on the extension. This year, not as much of a case. but I have to say it does remind me a lot of the Yanna situation. Now we have to go back several YanA situations ago, where we just kind of think like, oh The forignborn guys are just going to stay it out here, just make the best of their current situation. They're not like the AAU generation we're going to force their way to this team or that team. And my thing with that was always like, I think they're just like reasonable and then if the team isn't good enough, they probably don't want to stick around. I don't know if that's going to happen. Denver has a lot to get through this off season. It seems like They're open to tearing up their entire team around Yokich. If it happens, I think you're sitting with the wolves there. It becomes kind of a dicey preposition where it's like if you just like just upend what works for something that could be better There are a lot of risk inherent to that. So we'll see But it does feel like at the very least, like if he doesn't sign this extension Things could get pretty dark pretty quickly when I think the assumption was he was going to be there no matter what. Yeah I don't think there's any reason to believe just yet that he's going to leave But if you were Nicola Yokich, wouldn't you want to see more before you sign up to stay Like the nuggets are in a very odd spot where bothoth like getting quite expensive because of all these guys are wanting to invest in and already invested and Payton Watson is due for a new contract this summer as well, But also clearly not good enough. And I think the wall that they ran into into the in the playoffs where Jamal Murray, was just like really overtaxed Christian Brown just had an absolute flop of a season. Aaron Gordon's injuries have become a real recurring problem for the team. Cam Johnson was really big in the elimination game, but also had like some no shows along the way They just need more. like this is a team that needs to be reimagined in certain ways. whether that's a Jayalen Brown size move or some smaller ones. They're also potentially going to lose you know, Tim Hardaway Junior. They might end up having to lose Yonis Vent Tunis for salary reasons There's just a lot of like bloodleting happening here. And in a way where if I were Nicolea Yokich, I think I would want to kind of sit back and see What is my notoriously penny pinching front off is going to do get us out of this jam while also giving us a position to grow going forward Yeah, I think it's way more just about trusting that they're going to do right by me and no but I just feel like Yokich moreore than any other superstar in the league just has some Larry David to him where I just can't imagine I just can't imagine him going to another city and dealing with like not I'm sure he knows people all over the place. These are NBA players, but I just I can't imagine him wanting to deal with the bullshit of going to a new team him more than any other superstar. I mean Kawi is like the only guy that because he just doesn't play the game. likeike Yonis Janis kind of plays the game, likes to be loved, has sneaker deal, does endorsements, all kinds of stuff. I just Yokits that kind of leverage. I just don't see it with him because if he ain't going to a party if he doesn't know anybody and he probably still won't go to the party They respect it I think the real dark timeline for him is is this not a one season reboot no matter what they do. This is actually two because they're in the unenviable position At least two because they want to keep Payyton Watts in some of their younger players in order to build forward because their're older players are more injury prone and starting to age out. Despite the fact that those are the players that you probably need to hit the highest level of the team, And so your count, you need you counting on the inexperienced. and I just those two things don't typically coalesce with like high level expectations and win now mandates, especially in a West where as we mentioned, the Thunder are just shedding like their fourteenth best player and we're like, this guy might be as a top seven rotation player for the best team in the Eastern conference. It's just like it feels like they're playing two different games. And so if I was Yokich, I totally understand him and I actually respect him perhaps like pulling their feet to the fire because like this situation isn't good enough. It probably won't be good enough long term. And frankly, if you want to go elsewhere, like bro, live your best life. As long as they could just put you up in a hotel where you don't have to talk to other people as Kyle is talking to, We could figure this out I just think there's Everything you're saying is true, Justin, about the tough balance they find themselves in between the reliance on these veterans and also the need for higher variability I just don't know that the high end version that you're talking about anchored by veterans really even exists anymore. Like I think that part is already deteriorated between health and just aging and natural kind of regression of the roster to the point that they do need to be a little bit more dramatic and whether that happens this season or this off season or next really depends on what's available in the finances that are difficult to untangle here. but The championship version of the Nugs hasn't really existed for a long time. And we've been hoping and like, oh, if they get healthy, oh, if this guy is available now and then maybe they can recapture some of that magic. but We're going on three years right now. and I think they've won two total playoff series during that time. likeike that's just not good enough Yeah, the tide shifts way too too fast. It gets late so early in the NBA and it's a young man's game. and I just, you know, we've seen it You're right. We gave them. I think this was the threshold that we crossed where We just kept giving them the benefit of the doubt. And I know I I was guilty of that too in the playoffs. I was just like, you know, that and some of that was, you know, they took OKC to game seven and we were like, okay, it's still in there. But this was the first time where it was like it might still be in there, but The injuries are just putting a lid on this in a way that I think is making them rethink it in a serious way Variabilities something that we could work with. Oh, I like that. A spin off variability But what would it be? like what does it mean biggest swing players in the league. but isn't that already what the variables are Sometimes I should mention that we are finishing this up at ten thirty six AM Pacific time. Not a lot happened. Andrew Wiggins back to the heat, which is nice They need him. They don't need bodies on that team. a lot of things kind of we skated by here Marcus Smart opting out. seems like he's destined for perhaps But we shall see. Thankk you to Isaiah Blikelyy. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thankk you to Victoria Valencia We'll talk. twenty one plus imp present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or eighteen plus imp present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem callall one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset. Call one eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccPG dot org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp dot org in Maryland. Hope is here. visit gamblinghelp line mA dot org or call eight hundred three two seven five zero fivezero for twenty four seven support in Massachusetts. Reall one eight seven seven eight hope and Y or teax hope NY in New York, Louisiana call. one eight seven seven, seven seven zero seven eight six seven