New York City's Championship Energy

What's Bobin Rillins Logan Murdock here Howard Beck and a few B still are in a few few One of the all time real ones, the New York Kicks pulled off the incredible I have no word. This was just such a great season from them. M and Howard get into, you know, what we saw in throughout the series and the final game. and then buddy Bin Stiller comes to tell us what this all means for the city of New York. You know, we're not fucking around on roads. You know how we do without any further ado Ciff ia famous. J Popin Rin Logan Murdoock here in my beautiful beautiful cozy home at Howard Motherfucking Beck there live from the NBA finals. after the Ns probablyrobably biggest w in organization history I don't really have any words for this. The first championship since nineteen seventy three. Howard Beck is on site right now What is the emotions right now in San Antonio as you're going? I had a whole thing that I was going to go into and all thisically, but like just you're there. what is going on? How do you feel? What is this what was this moment like on the ground? I don't even know how to describe this moment, Logan because this is the twenty fourth NBA finals I've covered. So therefore the twenty fourth championship ceremony that I've been present for, but I have never seen one where the team clinched On the road and then celebrated with, I don't know, probably eight thousand, ten thousand. I don't know how many Nicks fans were in the building, but this place did not empty out. The Spurs fans mostly left, the Nicks fans stayed and the building still felt damn full Um, Absolutely incredible, an incredible clinch anyway. It was everything that the Kicks have exemplified throughout this run Just they're never out double digit Deficits mean nothing Jayalen Brunson can apparently score any timee he wants to Um And they turned. whatever they're calling this building now, the frost something center used to be the ATAT center. They turned it into Lake Madison Square Garden, Texas dition. That born in the middle of San Antonio, just in in in the country, just in the the middle of San Antonio, Outskirts of San Antonio. somewhere to two one zero They're building a new one. they can't abandon this place soon enough. But I think the Nicks Absolutely Um ownwned the night, obviously owned this series, winning it in five, winning their first championship in fifty three years. And I think one of the other things that was just really cool in watching this unfold and close out Patrick Ewing was here. I got a chance to chat with him a little bit ago before we started recording. Allan Houston is here. guysuys who were like these nineties icons who got close, who were in the finals couldn't seal the deal, but they're still attached to the organization. And I felt like it was almost like their emotions were just as strong as what you saw from Jayalen Brunson. and OG and An Aobbe and Carl Anthony Towns. And there's just this, you know, generations of Nicks who are attached to this to kind of feel like some ownership of their own, I think too. So that was really neat too. Um, But yeah, mostly my main impression walking out of here is going to be holy crap. like not only did they pull this off, but they pulled this off as like a road team that didn't just dominate the court but dominated the whole damn building This episode of the Ringer NBA Show is presented by Ferrero. The world is watching. Go all in for your team this summer with Ferrero Enter for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats Kinder Bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling, or Kibler Chips deeluxe cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks, or Ferrera Rochet squares, with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold Go all in. Buy any two for rarero brands and you could win one million dollars. Official rules apply. Learn more at goallinandwin. com I did chat with friend of the show Ben Stiller for a little bit. againain, just like He's been ducking us. G got on. He's been ducking us. I don't know if you if you're b The man's busy, but he's been man ducking us Dude, the man is busy. He's walking out of here with the coaches' clipboard. One of the assistant coaches handed it to him. He had it tucked under his arm. I said, how did you get that? He's like, one of the coaches gave it to me, I'm getting it framed. I want them all to sign it, but it was only a dry race pen on it. So like it would be pointless to have them sign it with the dry race because it would just disappear U he Ben seemed delirious. hisis eyes seemed a little red. He was like still holding a cigar and I think soaked in champagne and cigar smoke Um I'll get back to to some of that. But it was it was just it was No, keep going, keepe going. what was going on? Give us side Well, no, so The normal championship procedure after this happens is the media wait outside the locker room, then the media is let in. We're in there to watch them like burst the champagne and the beer and everything else and celebrate. And then you talk to the players in the locker room. Obviously some are going to the press conference, but you're getting a lot of guys in there. you're getting to feel the celebration The Kicks are the first champion and again, in my time doing this or that I'm aware of. And listen, I've covered the losing lockeroms in time. So I can't vouch for this entirely But I'm pretty damn sure this was the first one in which the media was completely shut out and isn't that just like the Kicks? I promise on a celebratory night, this will be the only negative observation I make about them, but they kept us shut out. Ben was in there. We were not U Ben is obviously a friend of the franchise and is doing a documentary that he's now publicly talked about. Um, So he was soaked. the rest of us got in there and it like the celebration was already That's typically what happens on championship nights like where I remember being one in Cleveland and you're literally it's a delirium and then once the ever the media gets in, typically that's when the team goes out. So you're just in this empty room, but some players are You know, in corners and like it's kind of like a biblical experience if you've ever been in one of those types of things. There's just so many different things and different storylines. that are happening in row times like you're in it and a history book just manifest Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck And the person who drives it That's a Chevby person Probably no one Your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up, are the first to rise, the last to leave They always have that little extra something, and maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet. Tether let's drive. Visit Chevy dot com slash trucks to explore the lineup But speaking of whatds let's get to some of the game the game. We got to start with Jayen Brson The finals inVP forty five points Oh first forty Fag point game and a close out series since ' ninety eight, and that was Michael Jordan against Utah U, and It was funny, like When I saw that he had the final tally of forty five, that was the first thing I thought about was The ninety eight Jordan Ry where. he was literally carrying this offense and carrying this team throughout this series, right? He was their offensive asoG and Ananob, notwithstanding But he was their guy. And There's so much that he has gone through, right? Theray from Dallas and You know myself, I was skeptical of what he could do with the Nickxes being the lead guy, right? And then he's he's the face of this de generation of the front office in the mick that we don't led by Leon Rose and Worldwide West is also in there, right? And There's all these this uncertainty and he brings certainty into this organization And also is the face of an organization that has a competent front office after all of these years. U and then you see him carryot teine that makes su One of the great playoff runs in NBA history. It's up there with the one Lakers that you covered, Howard, the the sixteen and one Wriors that I was around. It's right up there. And this is probably a little bit more special in a lot of ways just because It was New York and just because in a lot of ways we didn't see this coming Um, But Jalen Brnson is the face of all of that What was it like to see you know, him in that moment where you know, you see him in the hallways and going through types of things and like what is What is his legacy on this series and what are we going to look back on when we think of Jalen Brunson in this final series and not by extension this pelse. You can't describe what this N team is without starting with Jalen Brunson because obviously this whole era starts with them signing him after Dallas failed to lock him up, right? One of the great just uh it's just miscuse or just just um ust bumbling by the Mavericks. Like, how do you not lock up the guy that you drafted in the second round and help develop and it could see this coming on some level? Nobody could see all of this coming, obviously, but my gosh we could litigate the Mavericks and all their dumb decisions another day Jalen Brunson does not proroject as physically, athletically, in any way, the typical NBA superstar, right? Um He has been said to be too small Clearly not the case. we need to maybe maybe put aside or bury the get a small guard leading team to a championship narrative Now, if it's the right small guard, if it's a really special one, Obviously that negates all of this anyway You said it a minute ago about like this is kind of a championship that we didn't really see coming. and you could see the outline of it, Logan. You could see the Nicks, they were the conference finals last year obviously. So they were they were a contender. they were in the mix. But whether or not you thought they actually had enough to get past the elite teams, whoever that might be, right? At one point we thought it might be Cleveland or we thought it might be Boston even without Tatum and then oh, Tatum is back They had the superior regular season record Boston. Detroit had a far superior regular season record. couldn't even beat the sh out of the Ks two all season. Yeah. Um The Thunder and the Spurs were the two hundred sixty win teams this season and they were going to face one of them and they got the sppurs. Now we could say, well, the sppurs were really young, maybe not ready for this moment yet. they're ahead of schedle. All that that's fine. But the fact is The next didn't have the best record They didn't have the brightest star power And and that's I think what's what's remarkable about this championship run and about this team and what's so special about them is Jayleen Brunson, secondecond round pick who was cast aside or not even locked up by his first team. Carl Athony Towns a number one overall pick, but one who his the knock on him for ten years in Minnesota was He's great. He's just not good enough. He can't be the guy you build around You know, Michael Bridges bounced around a little bit. Josh Hart on his fourth team traded multiple times. OG and Aobbe Toronto liked him. They drafted him. He helped win a championship. He was out for that series because of appendicitis, but like They didn't, they traded him because they thought he's going to want too much money. He's not a full He doesn't have the offensive game. We we love his defense, but he's not All of these guys, I think that's the that's the character of this team or the the thing that kind of pulls them all together that unites them all This is kind of a group of scruffy underdogs in a lot of ways. And I I include Towns who was a number one overall pick in that Mike Brown fired by the freaking Sacramento Kings. What am you're getting this work tonight. You getting this work tonight, Sacramento. You are going to get this work Mike Brown, fired by the Sacramento Kings just like what, a year and a half ago or whatever it was I mean, and you know, listen fired by Cleveland twice, fired by the Lakers That's that's how it goes with coaches sometimes. But in a lot of ways we saw with Mike Brown that this was his last chance of being a coach going into Right. This is probably his last shot that he was ever going to have. Um, you know, a poor went up for Tomp theidu who obviously did a lot to instill a new culture in this team after this franchise had just been in the desert for decades. I think Tibbs does deserve some credit for getting them to the precipice and Mike Brown brought it home I'm not saying that, you know, they're in the same place necessarily if they' kept tips. I think Mike Brown brought a lot of offensive dynamism and creativity to this and deployed Kat in new ways that helped bring out his playmaking So But still This whole process starts with them'm hiring Leon Rose, Leon hiring Tibbs then them eventually signing Jayalen Brunson And then they just kind of methodically piece this together Deades, the Kicks were all about Bockbuster, deal after blockbuster deal, splashy trades at always you know, big names, but they're at the end of their careers or they're hurt or they're kind of like tarnished superstars. And this was the first time where they didn't do any of that stuff They didn't go chasing anybody. They got Jalen Brunson Everybody said it was an overpay And then they just kept building from there I think that I mean, that's the thing the thing about you know, The Kicks were just so poorly run over these last decades. obonvestly as long as I've been alive, all I've known is is a front office, that was pretty bad except for, you know, the Wal years when, you know, they get Carmelo and they have the Nix Tape years. That was like the only time during my lifetime that I felt like I the mix had it together a little bit and then they Um, you know Dolan would strike again and again and that is another storyline that we're going to get to in a second But I want to stay with this next team right here. And the thing that I loved about this N team is honestly One of the things that was going into the series was all was about young and old, right? and with the Ns They were just guys that knew each other, right? They were guys that Oh that played great alongside each other, that knew exactly what their roles were. And then I suppose that would San Antonio who we're going to get to them and they're going to have their own section would all been The Ns one because they could turn it on the final minutes because they knew each other the best and they knew where they needed to be. And that was the key in the series. They were only Cliff has a stat right here U The mix out scored the spurs by twelve points for the entire series, which is nuts Right But the reason why they were able to do that and ek out those wins is because they trusted each other more plain and simply. They knew each other's roles. and that's what I'm always going to look love about this team. notot necessarily, I mean There's an individual storylines that we could go to Carl Towns. Um, you know, Like you just said, playing for his mother, but also like Midway through the season, like he thought he was going to get traded, right? There were He was scared to death because he loves the Nick so much and wanted to stay, right? And then you know, you have Mcuel Bridges who has the ups and downs throughout this post season and always like every time he does something bad Oh man, you know how much they gave up for him, You know, they gave up all all these picks he has that in the back of his mind, you know, evenven somebody like Alvarado who is a midseason trade This I think this goes to my what I would love to talk about in this just about where the league is going, but This was a great year because we had so many stories and we had so many stories on this N team of like of it was like a writer's dream of all of the things that the subclass that that we had that we got to see. Oh What does this mean for the league, Howard? Right? I think We've always talked about You know, where Adam Silver is And You know, this parody is fucking up I think we learned two things. I think that big markets matter and I think that we learn that ye, it could parity can be very, very entertaining because we didn't know what the hell was going to happen. Adam Silver has to be really, really excited about At least the encore product of what's going on right now, right eighth champion in eight years. The league got the parody it wanted. We hit this note pretty much every time every June now because because the trend continues Um, One of the biggest market teams just won. mayaybe I guess the biggest market The biggest market just won But the biggest market didn't win by acting like a big market team where they're just running out outspending everybody else They didn't even do what the warriors did when the warriors were like, you know, doubling, tripling everybody else's luxury tax bills The Nicks like this is an expensive team and getting more so They didn't do this by running out and outspending everybody I'm not even sure whereher payroll rks, but I don't think it was They're not an a lelecture tax one So They did this in much more of like a small to mid market way, right It's signing Jalen Brunson away from the Mavericks at a time when he was not yet a superstar who would command the Max U trrading for guys that other teams just for whatever reason felt didn't fit at the time, whether that was brridges or Eenobi. Um You mentioned the Jose Alvarado pickup at midseason, which was was another really savvy move U Mitch Mitchell Robinson is like the only next draft pick, I believe, who's in the rotation Got the biggest offensive rebound of the night mix history maybe Well, the biggest offense of rebound in N next history was the one by An and Nooba, you didn didt the tip in My bad my bad. my bad my badiously. I'm tired. I'm sorry, I apology We're delirious here They Dude, they built this like a like a smaller mid market team. likeike this is you can't even say like, oh, this is like the revenge of the big markets or anything. They didn't build that way. This isn't no no disrespect to the Lakers, but this isn't the Lakers stealing from Dallas U in a ridiculous trade.. or even signing LeBron, right? Like they signed Jon Brunson, but he wasn't even a star. Like he's a frreickaking finals MVP now, but nobody saw that F years ago, whatever it was when they signed him. L So I had it what it says for the league thing is a really difficult one because I think every single Finals might give us a different version of the same lesson or just a slightly different lesson. And I I do think, I do think If there is something for the rest of the league to see in this next team about the way to build It's You know, look, finding a diamond the rough like Jalen Brunson, not easy Um, Once you know you've got the guy Do everything possible to put the complimentary pieces around him Jelen Brunson, not a great defender, but we're going to go get big wings like Oe andobbe and Michuel Bridges. You know, Julius Randall got us as far as we think he could get us. We're going to flip him and Don D Vincenzo for Carl Anthony Towns. Which by the way, town's only available because of other mechanisms the league put in, luxury taxs, second apron Temberwolves up against it feeling like they can't afford to keep towns at that price. Suddenly he's available. Wout the second aprid, I don't think Carl Anthony Towns is a New York Nick And so the Kicks were opportunistic. They were smart. Josh Hart. I don' think I've even mentioned frreicaking Josh Hart's name or maybe once, but another guy who like they saw something in him that told them this guy would be incredibly important to our our culture, the way that the team operates that like the selflessness that that Josh Hart plays with. and the hustle and just the intensity You need that. You need that. And like to me, like obviously, Jayen Brunsononss their the most important player. in a lot of ways, I feel like Josh Hard is their second most in terms of their identity He's not their most talented. Annaobbe, you know is more so. Towns is more so. Josh Hart in a lot of ways, I feel like is second only to Brunson in terms of what he meant to you know, I guess what we will now have to call hashtag nextix culture U So if there's If there's a lesson for the rest of the league, it's like Go get fucking goodood dudes who play their asses off and compliment each other well Well I mean, I think what it also is I think NBA is just turning into the MLB, right? Like where you have to have dudes that give you a chance to win and just give you a chance. You just need a team that's going to have a chance. They're going to get the pacers. they're going to get the Kicks of the world. And if you get onto a hot streak, you could fuck around to win a title. steal one and U And it's just so funny right now because in the beginning of the season, we just were like, o Ohh yeah, a Western conference team was going to win this championship, right? E all the way up until going up u to the finals, right? We were like, Yeah. Personally I don't know you picked, but I picked the sppurs in five Reason being I picked the sppurs in six. Yeah Yeah. Yeah. Reason being because we were like they were going to be the most talented team, right? And thinkink. We got a I think as a viewing public and even NBA observers, we got a real lesson in what it's a reminder maybe not a lesson. a reminder of what it actually takes to win a title, right? Because Victor Wominama in his post game pressure, which is I think Victor is going to be like the new LeBron in terms of u post game pressures because there's going to be must see TV as it happens. But one of the things that he talked about was U just how the Spurs just did not have answers And how hard mistakes are in the finals and how costly they can be. the most minor mistakes can be the most costly that they can have and That's the lesson that young teams need to know, right? I think we got shict Um and to like, not to say that, you know, it was a great trick move Burs. They got so good so fast and they got here They were so special because they got here on Talent alone. Not to say they weren't well coached, not to say you know, all those things But The Nick hal that they didn't was the Nicks, like I said, just knew where they were supposed to be spurs and we're going to get it to them in a bit, with the spurs They just they didn't know who to go to. They didn't know what to do in this situation, right. They're still throwing tble weaves u to get Dear and Fox jump shots and he's terrible in the game, right? They're not then or they're throwing loobs to Wimby U when they don't have any other options, right? Whereas The Knicks were very methodical and knew who they were going to be and you know backack to the point was,, we thought that as a basketball collective first talent could overcome that and we got a reminder of like, there's just a little bit more to go. And I said this earlier Howered that u I kept watching this series like damn in three years this is going to be good deal and Harper is going to run an offense in three years. Farncouse was going to know his role in three years. Maybe Darren Fox if he's on the team or not He's going to be a hopefully a completely different player, but this team is so new U And that was really the difference in this series, right? Like one team knew it the themselves way better than the other and they play to their strength. I think that's going to be the lasting impression of this series First person I ran into Once I was out, you know, down from from our perch in the press row and came down downstairs, the first person I ran into was Dylan's dad, Ron, who I covever with the Lakers back in the day Um, they lost, but Ron's like just the proud dad and he's, you know, without like this's not a direct quote, but basically he was like saying like, yeah, my kids fucking great man. Like it was basically the conversation we had. I just go way And he's going to be and he's going to be really fucking great. Look like you you're saying like in a few years it's in a few months, man. likeike give him another off season as Rokie years behind him. the dude is already an incredibly high impact player, great defender. U makes really smart plays just has a great feel for the game. obbviously needs to work on a couple things as, you know, his three point shot among them Holy shit. So yeah, listen on the Surs aspect of this If your best player, is your ciner. Unless that center is Nikola Yokich I think it's really hard and especially because Wemby's twenty two. it's really hard, you know, because what is what we do, right? We say, well like or who's the best player in the series? Well, Wby's the most talented player. Brunson is the most accomplished player U But these are the two best players in the series. So, you know, can can the Kicks match Weemby or can the Spurs match Brunson Weby does Weby's not a playmaker. Weemby is seven feet five and occasionally puts the ball on the deck and is just so long like there's it's just it gives's too much opportunity to like swat it away or he dribbles it off his foot or something. He you can't just say must have a basket This is not old school Nicks of or old school NBA of the nineties where you just dump it in to the big guy That's not the way that the MBA works now and that's not who WenBy is So The handicap the Spurs have in this regard is that your best player is is not a playmaker. You can't just so They've got to run stuff to get him closer to the basket. They've got to find ways to put Weemby in motion so that the shots are easier and so that he's not settling for a three or then putting the ball on the deck and losing it And there are other players who are great with the ball in their hands Castle. really struggle the last couple of games Dylan Harper Dear and Fox And Fox had his struggles too I think by I think by next season, like listen I already way prematurely said when they got Dylan Harper, maybe they were going to have to trade D in Fox, but the way Dylan Harperers emerged so quickly. You kind of vindicated yourself. I was thinking about that. likeike that was you kind of like it took a long time. It was a delayed vindication, but you did vindicate yourself it maybe, but I also think like like having Der in Fox and granted, he did not make the veteran play in game four when he failed to drible out the clock or force the foul instead of trying to beat OG and Oobbei to the hoop. 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The T mobile home run Derbies right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and all sports baseballs Biggest sluggers. with some legendary Announcers, Puhos, Rizzo, Bonds, Sabbathia L Duncan Yeah Hunter Pence, Matt Fast Kirzian, a whole bunch of people. And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. to make history. I'm interest is who what Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Park In Philly, watch the T mobile Home rununs Derb live Netflix Monday, july thirteenth at eight PM Eastern five PM Pacific This episode is brought to you by Nas Energy Every once of dirt, sweat and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard fought place They're all jammed inside every can of NASA energy performance energy for burning the midnight oil in the garage and pedal to the metal human horsepower For the streets, goo ahead, crack open a can of N energy and get after it. Point guard ball handler organizer type who had been around and been in playoff series was actually important for them Maybe it's not as important now And you do need listen Dyan Harper needs to start Dyan Harper needs to play huge minutes. So maybe as soon as next season, this is more about Harper Castle obviously you're keeping V acell, you've got killed in Johnson like. you've got a really deep guard rotation already. Fox is starting to feel more and more like I thought he might be a year ago or after the draft last year. mayaybe he is superfluous at this point and maybe you swap him out for a little bit more support. But also I think that like that was also a tagical thing. It was very much obvious that Dylan Harper was the best guard that they had And Mr. Johnson just has to make that adjustment, man. Like I did it. I understand, but this is the NBA f But you know, you have to. Um and that's and he deserves. I mean, he's a young coach Um, and he deserved, but he deserves blaming this as well. Like it was it was glaring all series. what Dylan Harper meant to this team, right? We back when we were in Sweden in game one we're like where the hell is Dylan Harper right now down the stretch of these games U So miss. Johns was waiting for game one. didid that happen That happened man. We were in stock going for game one bro But yeah, I'm just saying but like that Think about the spurs right now is You know, I was it was funny. I was talking to I was talking to Cliff and put a little bit on blast, but he was like Popoitz was was was coaching this team These mistakes wouldn't happen And my thing was These are two completely different types of SpurRs teams. The one that Popovitz inhibited even in nineteen ninety nine because that was that was Cips retour was nineteen ninety nine or that a young Tim Duncan They had a David Robinson, right? They had a Avery Johnson they had a Steve Kerr Bst te is completely different in makeup from that Like They veteran players are like Luke Canette and Harrison Barnes and Dereon Fox, right? No disrespect. but like those It's not the veteran type of group that is surrounding Limby right now because they're all young, right includluding with the young coach. Um, and they're trying to figure all of this out together. and I don't want to be too hard on them because this was not supposed to happen. They are to be thrown the chance U, and then they just find we were trying to figure out when they were going to show their youth in a post season. And I think the most impressive thing about them is like They're the youngest team that we have seen get to this point, probably like Oklahoma City, but just like when Oklahoma City w in twenty twelve, we were reminded that it takes way more than talent to ultimately win a title, right? Like you have to know what you're going down the stretch of games And the Spurs had no answer for what to do down the stretch games. Even in this one, like with six minutes left down the stretch. Let's get to the game part of it. Six minutes left down the stretch. It looked to be over, even though the Spurs were up too. Well was like an arena. Tansas wasas it was to did did the crowd know that the Nicks were inevitably going to win because at home, I'm like, yo, they're probably going to I think the Nicks are going to take Well Here's the thing, like you and I have been in a lot of NBA arenas for a lot of a lot of big games And you can tell the tenor of a game sometimes by how the crowd iss reacting That is presupposing that the crowd is actually invested only in one team, the home team. case that wasn't the case tonight. So There are cheers no matter who's scoring There are booze at weird times. There are let's go Nick chs that are now countered by Ghostpur's go chance and then NVP chance for Brunson and like So The feeling in the building, it was just like it was like, you know, fucking war like between these two factions Fortunately from everything I could see, by the way, a very kind polite war overall. Everybody was cheering, booing, chanting, whatever But I didn't see any real like tension tension between fans, evenven in the Concourse pre game Fans were like walking by each other in groups, going, G spurs, go, G sppurs, go and then the other coming the other direction going like, let's go next, let's go next. And they're just all having fun. And it was great. Like this was the best version of fandom, not the toxic bullshit version that we've unfortunately seen in recent days. back in in my my city, but um od Vibes were just weird And when it was coming down the stretch I think it was like First of all, close out games. they always say close up games are a bitch. cllose out games are really tough This almost felt like one of those like game seven like Celtics Lakers back in the day where it was like nobody can make anything So many especially that first quarter so many turnovers, so many missed shots and then late, it was like The Ns were kind of like, okay, it's just time. And they just started to methodically, especially Jalen Brunson just started methodically like, okay, putting points on the board And the Spurs didn't know what to do with it You're right to cite Mitch Johnon, you're right to cite the Spurs youth. But I think it's an interesting thought exercise to go back and like look at how close some of these losses were, right? So Weemby's pass off of Castle's back. that turnover back in game two Um, Obviously the blown twenty nine point lead in game four. U you know, Der and Fox's brain fart, if we want to call it that Um All these little things that could have turned the series the other way. Every single game The Spurs lose in five, which seems like a short series and it is. It's the gentleman's sweep as we call it But every single game was winnable for the sppurs and a a slightly more seasoned version. Of them, even one more year under their belt This might be a different outcome because the talent is there. Absolutely. And by the way, the guts and the will and the grit and all the other fun like intangibles that we like to throw around, all that shit's there too. Those guys fucking fight their asses off And they played their asses off and they had the knicks down by whatever twelve, fourteen again, fifteen U Was it get to eighteen? Never got to twenty, I don't think. Um He' like I I apologize to the listterers. I don't have the box score in front of me. I have no notes in front of me whatsoever, tonight. I am usually rev. Thank you. Thank you producer Cliff. sixteen was was their biggest lead I have nothing in front of me. Usually you know this loogan. I usually have copious notes, but this is like straight from game to back of house to locker room to I smell like cigar smoke to hey Ben, what's up to like potting. So like I have no notes whatsoever to to lean on But they they built another sixteen point freaking lead. Of course they could have won this game and a better executing more polished team Maybe does Yeah so like I'm just The Nixon abbsolutely earn this championship, but I but I think we can walk away from this series thinking inccredible run by the Kicks, suuper impressed by the sppurs One of the lasting memies that I will have from this is u The resurrection of Jim Dolan Let see would have called that. It was crazy Oh He's had a bit of a series, had a bit of a season. Oh Also just had just a run as the Nix owner in general What is it like for you as a former beat writer to see this journey. And I don't know I don't know where you were during the trophy presentation, but like yes, we're just gonna talk about the Jim Dolan of it all. What was it like to see this version of Jim Dolan after the beat writer who had to just battle with him all of these years How was that for you? I'm not going to reign on anybody's parade on the night that they've won the first championship in fifty three years and the first of Dolans's. U very jagged rain as owner, like We all know what the record is Um, A lot of firings L lot of controversy, lot of infighting, a lot of politics Uh, a lot of people banned Everybody's banned Bands, Charles Oakley. Um Who was in the building? There's there's a lot a lot, a lot to dislike about the way Jim Dolan has run the Kicks and especially for Nicks fans because You know, you talk about how they've been tortured for all this time. It's mostostly because of him starting in about, you know, ninety nine two thousand when he took over. And so all the dysfunction of the two thousands and the twenty ten s is on him I guess if there's a redemption play here for him, it's that He hired Leon Rose Leon Rose was the lead you know, of CAA's basketball division, right? Leon Rose who had started off as as a small time agent back in the nineties Rick Brunson was his first client Jalen Brunson is his gos son And he ran CA after his agency was bought by CA, right? So Leon Rose not a front office person, not a team executive, not a lifetime basketball person. He was a lawyer and an agent And The reason that Jim Dollan hired him was because as Jim Dolan has always done, he hires people who he already knows and trusts or have a flashy name, right? He hires Isaiah Thomas because he's Isai Thomas. He hires Phil Jackson because he's Phil Jackson Here are Donnie Walsh because David Dterern told him to That was an interesting one But he goes through a ton of executives, and he's often just gravitating toward people who he found who are loyalists, who are his guys. And Leon was another one of those in my perception And so I dismissed that as as another like here we go again U I've said this many times already, like, you know, obviously I was wrong on on on the the Leon Rose part of this. Leon put together a really strong front office from the personnel and scouting aspects of it to analytics and salary cap They have been super smart, again, and methodical about the way they put this roster together And yeah,, you know, maybe Leon knew something that everybody else didn't being Jalen Brunson's former agent and his godfather and who had represented Rick Brunson forever if there's again, if there's a redemption play for for Jim Dylan a redemption arc here It's that he finally got one thing right, the most important thing right hire somebody to run basketball ops. who will do what their who will do a great job, empower them, get out of their way. Don't meddle And for the last five, six years. That's that's been The playbook Jim Dylan did a lot last week to stir up a lot of bad memories for Nick's fans in terms of the way he sometimes runs things and his tone deafness Um, But Here they are. they won a championship. I don't think it means all is forgiven. It does not expunge the record. I mean, it kind of read it zgly head in game three like Dolan definitely he reminded people of his Dolan And even right And even on and even on the day of game four when he was back on the radio spouting a bunch of nonsense and trying to, you know start a fight. with the mayor of New York who' one the most popular people in the city, certainly way more popular than Jim Dullan or the president are. So, you know, just picking dumb fights is kind of what he's done He's picked fights with the NBA He's continuing to, you know U E tonight, keeping the locker room closed as long as he did, I think was another just thumbing his nose at all of us in the media and the league. That's who he is. But this is his night of we don't need to dwell on it. That'ss It's teams night, let's be honest. It's just teamight. It's listen, here's the thing. this's the last thing I'll say about this. It's never about the owners. And if we wanted to start getting into like the things that make certain owners Onerous. L or I should say, Odus. likeike there's a lot of stuff we could get we could dive into you can't root for or against teams based on the owners Because a lot of people became billionaires through means that we would not necessarily otherwise. So It is what it is. and it's about the players and the coaches and the front office and the people who put all of the blood, sweat and tears into this the owner signigns the checks, cashes the checks gets to hold the trophy first for whatever stupid reason. One of the dumbest traditions we have in American sports. I don't know if this is the case around the world, but one of the dumbest traditions we have is that the owner gets the championship trophy first. Those guys don't do anything except cut checks. and That's that's really all you should do Hire people. Hire good people, get out of the way, cut the checks. It's not about you in the end Hey man, Cloud is a hell of a drug, How are mother fucking back. Let's talk about Wendy Um al talk about his playoffs in totality, right? where this is his first coost season. it's crazy to even think about that gets injured early on Oh. Be took around the city, beat of champs. and It seemed after that game won against Oklahoma City where utterly dominates. Ched Honggren in that front line even with the sts never seem like he was as aggressive at that point, right? Now I know the defenses were differently covered him different. U, but evenven what I was just kind of disappointed just from watching tonight. like even when the Kicks put their smallest lineup of series there There was no a, I'm just going to get and I'm just going to punish this frontline. Me and you Howard were at We're blessed enough to be at a signature Wmby game in Los Angeles right before the all star game, right? and remember that? They game. there was no front line for the for the Lagers. Um LeBron nor Luca played that game and Windy just said, give me the fucking ball and I'm going to dunk over everyone. and I'm going to just I'm going to live in the paint And he had like we look up he has twenty five, twenty six points in the first quarter. That's the wimby that I kind of wanted to see and I felt like he needed to constantly throughout this series after the Oklahomaity city series C constant likees to be reminded though you need to be aggressive. You need to be aggressive, especially with the point guard situation that was going on, right? He was tasked to be the the lead ball handler in a lot of ways he would see settled a lot for threes. There wasn't a Squil O'Neill Yeah, give me the damn ball. Like fuck the offense. just give me the ball and let me cook. There wasn't a lot of that and it felt like If I look at that tape, I'm scared to death if on'm the rest of the NBA because he still was closer to that first game. We saw in Summer League of a guy that has all this talent but hasn't yet figured it out yet And now It looks like in the next few years he's going to and when he does make a click, it's going to be bonkers Where did you feel in totality of this post season? and What is this post season What do you think' going to tell us about the future Pictor Womi Yama I mean The sky is the limit because he can actually physically touch the sky Um, like the the man could grab a cloud if he wanted to. canan't remember the last time I was this impressed by a twenty two year old I said to somebody sitting next to me earlier tonight in that first quarter, right hit like three blocks in the first, what four or five minutes Um that awesome two headed reverse dunk And I said to somebody, like Be I don't react, right? We're reporters. I don't react much.'ve you've seen this. You see we were in a room packed with Nicks fans in Sweden watching game one and I'm just like Nodding along and everybody's going nuts around me Weembi makes me like just It involuntarily shriek and go like, Oh my God. whoa, uh. I'm just making fucking noises and Like he's just And it's not just that he can do the things he does athletically and physically. it's that K has All. ferocious, L He looks so skinny that you I think we we we get an impression like, oh, he's going to be too frail, He's not going to be aggressive, whatever. Like that guy get his ass knocked to the ground so many times he hops right back up U I don't see him complaining to the refs very much Gee You know, games that, you know, we we talked about this Um I think was the last round against Oklahoma. He's gased one game and it looks like it's over. and then he comes back just Absolutely attacking the next one Um, He's making his mistakes still. There are some bad, you know, some some just, u Mad decisions with the ball, sometimes some ill advised shots. he's still trying to figure out the best way to attack with his body and skill set But that's going to come with time. He's three years into this league. It was so crazy because in this post game I think it was Tim Reynolds who asked this question of the AP the gray Tim Reynolds. And Yes, like Yeah, man. Jerry West it took him twelve years to makeake it to this point and win a title. It took Lebron nine years. It took Jordan seven eight years What is it like for you to have that acceptance bed Oh, it's just not your time right now, right? And like But you just don't have all of the answers And the fact that we are so comfortable evoking him already with the all time great That's pretty special even after this finals, right? Because it's very clear in his game He doesn't know everything about his body and he doesn't, he hasn't even reached the He hasn't even touched his prime yet, right? And he's doing this And on one side, I'm just like, And no we both cover the league long enough to know how hard it is to win a NBA championship and how much how many things to go right for you to do so, how lucky you need to be to get there And I still want to bet on Wimby every time because whenever you see him, you're just like, I don't know who was stopping that when they figure it out And I don't know what side to go on right now because there's the one side where You know, the sppurs figurered out in real time they theirre back There's the other part is like he might be the great player that doesn't do it, right? There's just so much with Wimy this season and I don't know we could talk about reputationally what he's going to be, right? Like The backlash is coming, whether it's fair or not, right you know, even just how he was R, right? Even this season this post season when he had the elbow on Mazerie and when he was He may or may not have U you know, told his teammates to you know, go rough that m bugger up in the OKC series, right? and even this series, right? D Brunson a couple times And one of the Brunson hits that he had, like that probably should have been a flagrant bowl And so we saw the old total package of Windby right now. other thing is he needs to figure out some level of control, right? Because not just with the flagrin and stuff like that, but just even control within the offense and what he's going to be because there's so much raw talent there I think this series was a reminder that he needs to figure out how to harness it and figure that part outs get to the next step He's got some developing still to do, but I also think to go back to you know, the Dylan Harper Stefan Castle aspects of this too, right? Like This was Castle' second season and Harper's first And those two guys are immensely talented And when you have two guards who can do so much with the ball in their hands and draw in the defense And hopefully eventually become more intuitive as playmakers, they're going to make his job easier. Eventually, They're going to find ways to get him the ball on the move or closer to the basket They're going to they're going over time, you develop that chemistry with in terms of like the Alley Oops and that kind of, you know, connectedness that that you have, that telepathy that you sometimes get between Playmaker and Dig. and they'll get that. They'll learn that over time And so you've got these three pillars Two guards in a center All of whom are just immensely talented who are just scratching the surface One just finish his third year, second year and first year. L They're like We're in too much of a rush. and I think they Spurs are partially responsible for making us all feel like we're in a rush to crown them because they got here so fast But we need to take a step back, take a deep breath and remember how young they are and that there's a lot of development still to come. But my God, they've already been to the NBA finals And by all means, we know this. There are no guarantees in this league And, you know, A lot of teams we thought would have a long runway and for whatever reason, you know, free agency, injuries, salary cap problems, whatever it may be, something gets in the way, something stops it. But this team by All indications should be a contender for the next five to ten years And those three guys are going to all be absolute studs. They already are, but there's so much development I'm going to do something that I know you hate, but we're going to have this conversation. U What did this wind do for Jayen Brstleon in terms of his nickum, right? Is he is he is he is this put him as the best Nick of all time or at least the most beloved Nick of all time? Where I know you're having these internal battles and I know that there's been conversations throughout Yeah. What's your bid? Let's talk through this I asked Patrick Ewing and he kind of just said he's he made it just Well he's one of the greats. He's one of the next greats. I'm like, okay I said, sobody so up there with who? like you and Willis and Clyde or whatever. he's like, yeah, you know, I said So is he behind her ahead of What do he say? He just laughed. She's The point is that he's in that conversation, pereriod. but Patrick's response and his point was like, he's already there. He was there. He's like this championship isn't what puts him there His play all the way up until now already had him there. And I think that's a really interesting and important point, right? Because you can be an all time great as Patrick himself is without winning the title And Jalen had already put himself in the conversation among Gest Knicks just by what he's accomplished. And some of that is statistical Some of that is the win totals And a lot of it too, to go back to previous theme here, is just making the Nicks respectable again Just making them a contender again, a team that matters again. And So Yeah, for all the above reasons. He is an all an all time great Nick. Wh how you want to order them Probably it's gonna to be all the usual things, right? There's going to be some recency bias. There's gonna to be some generational bias And There's going to be just some preference involved in all this I think if you want to bake in the fact that it's been fifty three years and he's the first guy to bring them back to this point to deliver a championship If you want to say he's the all he's the greatest nick. or co greatest. withith Clyde Co great us with Clyde and Willis I think any of those things are fair. All due respect to Patrick. he couldn't get them to the championship and he was injured in the ninety nine finals Oh There aren't lot of other candidates necessarily to put in there If you're talking about the greatest nick of all time. So Um I think this is one for the fans to decide ultimately, right? Like the fans and I think basketball historians, I don't consider myself as much a historian as Bill for instance I'm sure he has, you know, a really well informed, well researched take on this because he is he is He's dived into the archive so many times on this I have a hard time with these things. You know, you know me, rankings and lists Not my I tried, man. I fucking tried. You gave a great answer, but you didn't go all the way. I didn't know you're going to go all the way with it. What does it mean for New York, man? You've been there twenty two years. What is this my daghterom My daughter text to me as soon as the final buzzer hit and she's like fireworks. like I think it was like a two word text basically was like the fireworks are back Um As soon as the game was over, there ref firements going on off in Brooklyn Um, I can only imagine what the scene must look like in New York right now There's something, I talked to Mike Breen about this last night. that The Nicks strike a different court in New York Then the Yankees, the giants the Mets andjets are kind of on on a different kind of tier and the Nets are kind of an afterthought Um The next film right Rangers, whoever, whichever New York team you want to put into this conversation And the Yankees have won a lot of championships in the last whatever thirty years. D differenterent with the Kicks It's a basketball city And it's, you know, basketball is the city game And U to use the phrase it just hits different It hits different and like Listen, I've been there for twenty two years, but I wasn't born there. So I'm not going to have as as, you know, nuance to take or as passion and passassion take as somebody who who grew up on all of these teams and I saw all the ups and downs of all of them The energy I have felt around the city and just the sheer number of Nick gear all the time. My one mile walk to the gym a few times a week in Carrool Gardens, Brooklyn, the number of people I pass who have a Nick's hat or jersey or shorts or sweatshirt or all of the above on has multiplied by a factor of like ten in the last two months alone And certainly by a pretty big factor even in the last several months, the last several years, as they've really risen their prominence again Like the city is so fucking energized by them. And it is a unifying force. That's what we love about sports. It's a unifying force. I watched sitting there tonight as the final buzzer hit All these Nicks fans in the section right in front of me And like I saw like five Nicks fans in a group hug. I think they all knew each other It was like, you know, three women and two men and there was just like this one big group hug. And like there was all kinds of NX fans here who I think were probably complete strangers when they arrived and it was just like you know, you know, just a delirious bedlam in the stands as they celebrateated. And, you know, again, like It's the emotion of sports and it's ability to connect people that we love about it and That's what we're seeing right now on a massive massive scale because the Nicks are in a massive massive city and their fans are fucking everywhere It's one sixteen in the morning in San Antonio Um Ben Diller is soaked in champagne and cigar smoke and he's just kind enough to have wandered down the hallway through this fucking labyrinth of an arena to rejoin the real ones. Ben, there's the cigar. That's great. Ben. How you feeling, man? It's just, I don't know, I don't know. I feel like I didn't do anything and I feel incredible They did something. I enjoyed it Yeah, and I've been enjoying them do their thing for a long time and it's nice to see them finally the highest level and make it to the top, man. It's just crazy. What do you like you must have emotions that that that are pretty intense. You're like I know you're filming too. you're actually working, but you're you're invested in this. I mean, I just feel so happy. It's just it's like that thing, you know, like when it's a buildup of So many years, so many years it was just like, no, it's not really going to happen or the Ns, you know, the Kicks or you You looking at me going like, Yeahah, the Dicks and like you know what I mean? Like like I felt like you would look at me like sort of like, yeah, I get it. You're a fan and I feel for you, I understand, but you know the reality is And then you would like list the reality, which was true And now the reality is that we are the fucking champions. You are the fucking champions. W I Was I that condescending towards your fandom I hope I was No you're a professional Like you're, you're always very nice and you're professional, but you're like, and you obviously know so much about basketball. So it's like a doctor where like I'm going go, Hey, I'm going be okay, right Do doctor. you're like, Yeah okay. A couple of issues on your chart. But you know, that's kind of what it's been. so,'s And I got some questions too, correspondent. Yeah Go, go, Logan. Ban mother fucking stealer, what the fuck is up Next, baby Hey I got a question for you. Ws in five when the when the when the seconds were going down Wh age of your childhood flash in front of you I am right now I am nine years old. I've been nine years old for like the last two hours In terms of how I feel. Did you think about Did you think about Clyde? likeike think about the old team? What was the emotions in the seconds that were going down It was it was a feeling of like this You know that thing when something actually happens and you can't believe it's happening? That thing where it's like almost like it's like you're, I wasn't numbed out to it, but I was right next to mis. Dullan. He was You know He was saying, oh, I guess I think this is going to happen. I think we I think we're going to win this And it was kind of like u I don't know, man, it's hard to believe. It's really hard to believe. And I just immediately like went out onto it's it's a whole surreal feeling that is I don't really I wish I was more articulate about it, but it's like a feeling of u all those years of loving the Kicks And in my lifetime, I honestly didn't know if I'd ever see a championship. What was it like for u What does this Jayalen Brunson run mean? Where does he what does he within the Nick's ethos. Is he the best Nick of all time? Where is he right now for you? Logan already tried to trap me with this question. I good answer. I mean, look, you can't I don't think you can say what his career is until his career is over you know, in terms of really where you put him. But like he's definitely rightight now, like, I mean, in my mind, he, you know, he hasn't won two championships. He's won one championship. So you know, right? You'd have to say like with Clyde, right? H his two championships. Yeah U, But in terms of like what he has done, what he represents for this team, what he's like as a player his grit, his determination, his accessibility as a person, his lack of pretense U, his determination, his sense of humor his connection with his teammates. Uh, his selflessness in that way, his, uh just overall just vibe is something pretty incredible. And I just I'm just totally down with that guy. I love that guy. So yes, I'd say one of the greatest, you know, he's in the top tier right now, right? I mean, but you have to like, I mean, these are like Willis Reid and Right, you know, Clyde, there's like guys, you know, for me like, but guys who, you know, Carmilla inccredible, but like he brought us a championship. C on. He did. He did. You did On his back Really Could you talk about just like the journey you and all your celebrity pates who was having like all of Nix nation, but like you guys were the bace of it. Can you talk me through the journey of you guys going from this city to that city or you guys on a group chat? Like what is that like? How does this work We're like, you know, trying to figure out ways to scam rides and get there and scam tickets. I'm like Sell and May is like, hey, you got to got a lead on a ticket for Cleveland. I don't know they I bought one, but they said they're going to revoke it and I know a guy or you know, it's like, I mean, there's a lot of stress. There was a lot of stress in terms of like away games and trying to figure out how to get there, how to get the tickets Um, but also it started last year really. you don knowt always went on the road to Detroit and to Indiana and u, you know, like I I cant it's also like there's never been a team where we've been doing that. L this is, you know, that's a new thing. likeike, but it's the belief in this team, the fact that they got to the point where they You know, they did what they said they were going to do and Last year, I feel like we all like were so bummed out the way it ended Aiman two years ago too And u I think there's a connection with the team where we just felt like we I just wanted to be there. So I don't really think about it. like, you, I know people say like, oh, the celebrity fans or whatever, but like we I'm just like I look at as a fan as a fan who has incredible ac who's so lucky to be able to have that access. and I know so many fans who, you know, love the Kicks who, you know, it doesn't matter like if you're in the front row or if you're in the back back of Mas Square Garden. It's it's, you know, as exciting and it's as great. And so it's It's kind of like just being a part of this community that is really, really connected. And, I'm so excited to like talk to all my Like Nick's Twitter friends, you know, who are just like freaking out right now U it's just like it feels like a very connected u group of people who are just like so so happy and And I just feel so lucky that I got to experience it in person And'm, you know, I'm just like it's incredible Are you telling Chalamay? likeike are you telling him like, yo, back in my day Whind was that dude Willis was that dude. you wasn't even there. I know that she know I know that J R. Smith is your goat But does that understand this. Are you giving him like History lessons. what is that relationship to Nicks? Like how do you how do you really cultivate a new Nicks fan No, I think we've just been living in the first of all, he's not new. I mean, he's been new.'s been with us He's been with But his lifetime, rightight. We're older. I get it. But like but he's you know, he's been with it since he was like ten years old or whatever. So like it's like same thing. He's just a kid like, you know,, you know, I've been with this since I was ten years old. So It's kind of that same thing. like his memories of that those teams. It's not like it was like, oh, like,h, you know, Clyde that was the team or whatever like, but they were the winning team, right? They were the ones that want it. So it was always that thing of like, you know, are they ever going to do it? man? I love the Kicks, but boy, they're heartbreaking. There wass always that running commentary Oh, the Kicks break your heart But that's the thing that I think is most interesting, Ben for like a fan of your generation, which is my generation, but I'm not a fan You're a little older than me. but Like for Salamay and for younger fans Mm I'm a fan of seeing my friends happy. It's great to see you happy. seeee other friends in New York happy. That's great There you go. No, but like you had to live through, you got to see the highest high when you were a kid when they win championships. the seventies are otherwise a pretty rough period. The eighties are rough for a while until Ewing gets there. There's, you know, two finals in the nineties, but they're both losses. The two thousands of the twenty ten s, the less said, the better probably. So like you you had to go through the torture of it to get to this point, which I would imagine makes it all that much more satisfying, which I think for some of the younger Kicks fans, maybe they could, I don't know if they take for granted or not, but they probably didn't have to feel it as much. likeike they didn't, they weren't as just Tormented as you would have to have been over the course of like Well, I have more years. I have a lot more years, but I think pain is pain Tormment is Trment. My son, you know, was twenty one. Yeah. We moved back to New York in twenty ten, so, you know He was a young kid when we came back here, I grew up in here moved away a while they came back in twenty ten. So he started watching games at the roughest really the toughest time Yeah, you know, for those like that eight or nine years. So he's he's got pain. likeike he has maybe more pain than I do because he'd never had the winning part of it too. orr the memory of that. It was just sort of an idea. Like I actually have the memory of you know, of that those teams So I think like everybody it's all valid. like everybody has has what they have in terms of like the mix. And I think is, you know, if you're a fan, you're a fan and you feel it deep inside. Okay, so my follow up to that is just this. And I think I remember you were on JJ Redxs pod several years ago where you kind of like squirmed a little on this one because he was asking about like some of the rough years. Right. But I do wonder like Are there moments there where you're thinking like, becauseuse you see they make the same mistakes over and over again, organizationally and everything. I know ne don't necessarily want to go down some of that road, but just like, how how does a fan keep the faith when an organization like disappoints you over and over that many times? And did you ever actually I mean, you had to have thought at a certain point will never see this day. And I know that the point of fandom is that you always have the faith, but like I imagine it was tested Yeah, it was it was it was a hard time for sure. you know, I think the Phil Jackson thing was like a really tough time because Everybody was so hopeful. Yeah, you know, Like you can't blame them for bringing Phil Jackson in in terms of like as an idea Maybe the reality reality of it Noase Well the Ovly I have high regard for Phil and covered with the Lakers as a coach, but like he's He was never a front office guy. So I thought he was mis. So maybe that was yeah, but we as fans would like aspond it's like Phil Jackon's coming. Yes. Yeah. Well, it was like Mary Brown's coming. Exactly. Isaiah Thomas coming. crashed and burn. they all crashed and burned. Yeah. So u That's a little bit of the institutional kind of like You know memory of that kind of thing Yeah. So there were times, especially I think after Phil Jackson where it felt like, okay, well, then this is never going to happen, you know? And then there was just like it felt, you know, kind of miss we were like kind of like in the in the sort of u It just didn't feel like it had any direction But, you know sllowly over the last five years, right? There's really been an upward trend,? And and Leon Rose, you know didid his thingang and u Man, these players, like the players that, you know, it was like when we lost Dante That was one at one moment where I thought like, okay, gosh because there was like a special magic happening. and I questioned that U, and I didn't know Kat before he came and I just quickly, you know, just aim to love cat because I realized like this this guy is again, like a lot of the players on the team never really got their flowers never really were celebrated and has something to prove. And he You know He has been able to withstand the media and pressure Cooker of New York. and a lot of players haven't been able to and he could and he understood how to weher this year, how to get through this year to get to this whichich is interesting because I think one of the concerns when Kat arrived was like, is he going to be tough enough for that? Like he's from New Jersey and everything, but still like because of his public persona and I think people could look at him as soft as as a personality or as a player sometimes. And it was like can he handle the crucible of New York? because a lot of guys have been broken by by that spotlight And and he can and he could And he and he had the toughest test, I think Yeah in terms of having to withstand that and and to shut out the noise and having to lear because look, you had this great year last year, right? And then Mike Brown came and all of a sudden you know, he was kind of lost in this system and he was saying and everybody was like going when are they going to connect? with you know, But we knew he was a great player But there was the question, can he win a championship And then he had to deal with all of this adversity this year in terms of fitting into this team or how people perceived him or like this quote unquote soft all that, which is all kind of bullshit really because it's all just perception from the outside.. But really when you get to know someone like that, you realize, o this guy is like really dedicated to winning And he is trying to figure out how as a guy who's you know number one draffic and has had to like shed a lot of his ego to make it work on this team, he is I think a huge key to why why we have this championship Okay, OGiannaobi. I need you to I have a couple more questions of this, but OG Annai tip in Take me through that. You're on the sidelines. Was that Where does that rank among life moments Number one I think. Oh in terms of life moments.. Oh, life moments. it's up it's up there for like, you know, like moments of like special incredible things happening, you know? But like it's a sports moment, like a New York sports moment for me probably number one. How were you feeling during that comeback? take us all the way through to the come I was I was I was feeling like we were going to lose the game I felt like I, you know, because it was just we were down. we couldn't get we couldn't get back. We kept on. You're trying to get back in it Um I felt like I was at the point where like, okay, we're just going to have to figure out how to regroup and go back there and Um, you know, I Christine, my wife who was with me was much more positive. And she kept on looking at it and saying, look, you know, we can get back in this thing. And then it started to happen And as it started to happen, I still was like not really fully on board until we were like four points down Um, but, you know, and having seen what happened to the Cleveland game and how we did that, it was I was like, okay, can we really do that again? This is this seemed worse to me. Um though I think maybe a certain point in the fourth quarter, we might have been in better shape than we were even in the Cleveland game when we started to come back and s Oh Yeah. Yeah. But like it just felt like so daunting. and then play at the end is like I just feel like it's the sort of like, epitome of an amazing sports moment in terms of, you know the grace, the athleticism, the timing for OG in terms of, you know Everything that went into him tipping that in and what it looked like and you know, those the images of this shot, this hand of God. right? the handand of OG It's one of the most graceful sports moments I've ever seen. And it made, I mean, I've never felt anything like it. I was filming it too But then all of a sudden, right after that, there was this moment of like, oh my God, this is girl. I actually ran out on the court Like with my camera, like filming the celebration part. And then I realized, oh wait, the game's not over Because they still have it a second in whatever, one point two seconds, or whatever left. So that, you know, that, then there was that moment. And then Kat tips it, which by the way, people don't really talk about. In real Because in real time nobody saw it or noticed I'm not sure if the broadcast even did. I didn't know until like twelve hours later because social media started putting that clip out. and I would have written a whole story about all these other other things that happened And I didn't even mention that because I did not know but orr the crazy three that he hit too, where he fell into the bench another pivotal shot inccredible. One of the most incredible moments thing Yeah two more things. One thing What was it like to see Wimy at as big as the moment. What was that like? Did you put the figure of God of you What was that like He's so interesting, you know, he's so interesting because You know, he has that look in his eye like he knows something. And you know, he's I don't know, man, I can't figure him out yet I think he's a formidable opponent, you know, It's like this game even, you know, like before the end where it just it's sort of It all kind of fell apart for them, but you know, he u You know, when he's on and he's hitting the shots and or when, you know, it's so like daunting when he would block a shot. it's kind of like demoralizing, you know, just when he goes and blocks something just because it's so You're not going to do that Um, I think he's going to, you know, he's going to be have be a great and everything it's probably going to learn from this, but I think You know, honestly, it feels to me like, you know, this moment and there' probably nothing like this moment I know as a fan when I'm feeling the pressure I'm feeling as a fan. I can only imagine for the players And You know It's yeah, he is like from another world in terms of, you know, when you watch him on the court, but u Nick man, Nicks figured out how to deal with that. Jaylen Brnson said, I don't care I'll shoot over you. Last thing. I need you to look in the camera right here I need you to give a message at Nix Tate Nick Mafia, the city of New York going into the parade. I need you to look right here and I need to give you some energy. I need you to give a message to New York right now. New York. We did it. Mix! Chams Wha! Nxt did it Mix win, mix in five . a Right. All right, but it has been another that was of real world those That was fantastic. we should get Ben to do all other shits bye h B I don't see her as a girl All right. I all the shits. All the shits Be It must be twenty one years and older and present in select states For Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or eighteen and older and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred, my reset. Call one eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccpG dot org backsash chat in Connecticut or visit MDgamblinghelp dot orga in Maryland. Hope is here